{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":3.618,"endTime":5.338,"body":"One of the most political"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":3.618,"endTime":5.338,"body":"things you can do is actually"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":5.338,"endTime":8.428,"body":"learn about climate change so"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":5.338,"endTime":8.428,"body":"that you can then speak about it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":8.878,"endTime":10.738,"body":"But yes, you can do also do other things."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":10.808,"endTime":14.278,"body":"You can join an organization, you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":10.808,"endTime":14.278,"body":"know, that's deeply political."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":14.438,"endTime":17.718,"body":"You can move careers,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":14.438,"endTime":17.718,"body":"again, deeply political."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":18.038,"endTime":22.278,"body":"You can go into politics which is very"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":18.038,"endTime":22.278,"body":"obviously the most political thing."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":22.598,"endTime":24.668,"body":"But yeah, for me, it starts"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":22.598,"endTime":24.668,"body":"around talking about it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":24.958,"endTime":28.748,"body":"And, you know, that's, that's one of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":24.958,"endTime":28.748,"body":"the most encouraging things that I think"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":28.848,"endTime":33.238,"body":"looking back over the last five, 10 years"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":28.848,"endTime":33.238,"body":"is how many people are talking about this."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.827,"endTime":35.897,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.827,"endTime":35.897,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.907,"endTime":37.407,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.727,"endTime":41.457,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.727,"endTime":41.457,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.597,"endTime":45.367,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.597,"endTime":45.367,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.797,"endTime":47.737,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.897,"endTime":51.657,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.897,"endTime":51.657,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.817,"endTime":54.177,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.124,"endTime":55.544,"body":"Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.544,"endTime":58.994,"body":"Welcome to episode 197 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":55.544,"endTime":58.994,"body":"climate confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.414,"endTime":60.854,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.854,"endTime":63.314,"body":"And before we kick off today's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":60.854,"endTime":63.314,"body":"show, I wanted to take a moment"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.314,"endTime":67.484,"body":"to express my gratitude to all of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.314,"endTime":67.484,"body":"this podcasts amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.174,"endTime":71.234,"body":"Your support has been instrumental"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.174,"endTime":71.234,"body":"in keeping the podcast going."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":71.714,"endTime":74.354,"body":"And I'm really grateful for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":71.714,"endTime":74.354,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.164,"endTime":78.194,"body":"If you're not already supporter, I'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":75.164,"endTime":78.194,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.194,"endTime":81.224,"body":"our community of like-minded individuals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":78.194,"endTime":81.224,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.834,"endTime":85.184,"body":"Supporting the podcast is easy and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.834,"endTime":85.184,"body":"affordable with options starting as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":85.184,"endTime":86.924,"body":"low as just three euros or dollars."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.464,"endTime":90.164,"body":"That's less than the cost of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":87.464,"endTime":90.164,"body":"cup of coffee and your support to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.164,"endTime":93.674,"body":"make a huge difference in helping"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.164,"endTime":93.674,"body":"me keep this show going strong."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.484,"endTime":96.914,"body":"To become a supporter you simply"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.484,"endTime":96.914,"body":"click on the support link in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.944,"endTime":98.654,"body":"show notes of this or any episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":99.044,"endTime":102.524,"body":"Or visit tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.728,"endTime":106.308,"body":"In today's episode, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":103.728,"endTime":106.308,"body":"to be talking to John Lang"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":106.308,"endTime":108.738,"body":"CEO of the Net Zero Tracker."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.188,"endTime":111.918,"body":"And in upcoming episodes,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":109.188,"endTime":111.918,"body":"I'm going to be talking to."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":112.248,"endTime":112.998,"body":"Chris Kruger."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":112.998,"endTime":115.088,"body":"Who's the CEO of AYK energy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":115.088,"endTime":117.018,"body":"We'll be talking about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":115.088,"endTime":117.018,"body":"Marine electromobility."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.948,"endTime":121.958,"body":"Katie Anderson senior director from EDF,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":117.948,"endTime":121.958,"body":"where we'll be talking about methane."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.478,"endTime":126.888,"body":"Stefan Mueller from SAP, we'll be talking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.478,"endTime":126.888,"body":"about amongst other things, cop 29."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.488,"endTime":130.458,"body":"And Charlie Angelakos who is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.488,"endTime":130.458,"body":"the Chief Sustainability Officer"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.458,"endTime":132.918,"body":"from McCain's the chip people."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":133.458,"endTime":135.138,"body":"So that's going to be a fun"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":133.458,"endTime":135.138,"body":"one to listen to as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":135.138,"endTime":137.298,"body":"So a lot of great episodes coming up."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":137.808,"endTime":139.398,"body":"Back to today's episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":139.398,"endTime":141.648,"body":"As I mentioned today, I'm talking to John."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.188,"endTime":142.668,"body":"John."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":143.118,"endTime":144.318,"body":"Welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":144.318,"endTime":145.938,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":146.236,"endTime":147.106,"body":"Thanks very much, Tom."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":147.306,"endTime":148.656,"body":"So my name is John Lang."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":148.706,"endTime":152.766,"body":"I founded something called the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":148.706,"endTime":152.766,"body":"Net Zero Tracker back in 2019"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":152.776,"endTime":154.756,"body":"with my former boss Richard Black."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":155.366,"endTime":158.676,"body":"And the Net Zero Tracker is an"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":155.366,"endTime":158.676,"body":"accountability and transparency tool,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":158.836,"endTime":163.154,"body":"and we'll get into that in further detail"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":158.836,"endTime":163.154,"body":"in a little bit, but, I specialize in"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":163.184,"endTime":167.794,"body":"analysis and explaining climate change"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":163.184,"endTime":167.794,"body":"science and policy to the public."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":168.494,"endTime":173.544,"body":"I became very passionate about explaining"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":168.494,"endTime":173.544,"body":"climate change because I had a lukewarm"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":174.304,"endTime":177.554,"body":"politician stepfather back in NewZealand."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":177.854,"endTime":181.021,"body":"So I thought I'd do my due diligence"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":177.854,"endTime":181.021,"body":"on this issue, on the climate issue."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":181.671,"endTime":185.031,"body":"And then I became a prisoner of what I"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":181.671,"endTime":185.031,"body":"knew and I knew I started to know too"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":185.031,"endTime":188.014,"body":"much about it, to go in a different"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":185.031,"endTime":188.014,"body":"direction from a career perspective."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":188.324,"endTime":193.044,"body":"Another tidbit about myself is I founded"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":188.324,"endTime":193.044,"body":"Kiwis in Climate, which is a 500 strong"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":193.054,"endTime":197.184,"body":"group of New Zealanders working in climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":193.054,"endTime":197.184,"body":"and sustainability related fields around"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":197.184,"endTime":201.234,"body":"the world that sprung out of London"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":197.184,"endTime":201.234,"body":"but is now an international initiative."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":202.569,"endTime":202.969,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":202.969,"endTime":209.939,"body":"And you head up the Net Zero Tracker"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":202.969,"endTime":209.939,"body":"as part of the ECIU which if I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":209.939,"endTime":213.269,"body":"can remember correctly is Energy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":209.939,"endTime":213.269,"body":"and Climate Intelligence Unit."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":213.309,"endTime":217.779,"body":"Can you talk to us a little bit about what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":213.309,"endTime":217.779,"body":"that is and, you know, how, how it works."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":218.199,"endTime":218.779,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":218.809,"endTime":219.899,"body":"No, so that's correct."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":220.239,"endTime":225.089,"body":"We actually stole the name from the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":220.239,"endTime":225.089,"body":"Economist Intelligence Unit, I believe."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":225.389,"endTime":230.869,"body":"It's, it's a rather pretentious name as"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":225.389,"endTime":230.869,"body":"our, as our then boss Richard Black said."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":231.289,"endTime":233.962,"body":"But yeah, so the Energy and Climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":231.289,"endTime":233.962,"body":"Intelligence Unit we're a bunch"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":233.962,"endTime":235.802,"body":"of analysts and communicators."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":236.242,"endTime":239.812,"body":"And we were founded back in 2014."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":239.822,"endTime":242.022,"body":"So we're approaching"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":239.822,"endTime":242.022,"body":"our 10 year anniversary."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":242.702,"endTime":245.967,"body":"And we were founded to try and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":242.702,"endTime":245.967,"body":"clean up the misinformation"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":245.967,"endTime":248.387,"body":"landscape in the UK media landscape."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":248.417,"endTime":252.507,"body":"So, the Energy and Climate Intelligence"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":248.417,"endTime":252.507,"body":"Unit, or ECIU, have had a huge effect"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":253.017,"endTime":259.017,"body":"in the UK by bringing accountability"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":253.017,"endTime":259.017,"body":"to what people say in opinion pieces"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":259.387,"endTime":262.917,"body":"and also in articles, especially on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":259.387,"endTime":262.917,"body":"the right side of the aisle where the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":262.917,"endTime":264.557,"body":"conversation actually needs to be won."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":265.037,"endTime":266.747,"body":"It doesn't need to be one on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":265.037,"endTime":266.747,"body":"the left side of the aisle."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":266.797,"endTime":268.097,"body":"It needs to be one on the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":266.797,"endTime":268.097,"body":"right side of the aisle."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":268.097,"endTime":274.791,"body":"And ECIU was founded to try and make"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":268.097,"endTime":274.791,"body":"sure that there is informed debate, on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":274.791,"endTime":277.631,"body":"climate change and energy, especially"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":274.791,"endTime":277.631,"body":"on the right side of that aisle."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":278.936,"endTime":284.926,"body":"Okay, and what would you say"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":278.936,"endTime":284.926,"body":"has surprised you the most in your journey"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":284.926,"endTime":292.586,"body":"from you know, starting out looking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":284.926,"endTime":292.586,"body":"into climate, you know, your lukewarm"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":293.006,"endTime":298.486,"body":"politician stepdad to where you are today"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":293.006,"endTime":298.486,"body":"leading the net zero tracker for ECIU."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":300.881,"endTime":302.671,"body":"Yeah, I, I'll"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":300.881,"endTime":302.671,"body":"say a couple of things."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":302.671,"endTime":304.821,"body":"First, firstly, a personal thing."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":305.021,"endTime":307.811,"body":"I think the most surprising"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":305.021,"endTime":307.811,"body":"element is actually the more you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":307.861,"endTime":310.941,"body":"understand about climate change,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":307.861,"endTime":310.941,"body":"the less scared of it you are."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":311.441,"endTime":316.531,"body":"Because you actually understand you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":311.441,"endTime":316.531,"body":"understand the intractability of the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":316.531,"endTime":321.701,"body":"problem, the enormous challenge that it's"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":316.531,"endTime":321.701,"body":"going to be, but you also meet all the,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":321.711,"endTime":326.851,"body":"all the amazing people that are working"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":321.711,"endTime":326.851,"body":"on it, and you also see that the progress"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":327.656,"endTime":332.206,"body":"is real at the policy level, at the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":327.656,"endTime":332.206,"body":"clean energy level, at the communications"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":332.206,"endTime":334.186,"body":"level at the activism level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":334.506,"endTime":335.826,"body":"And actually that fills you with hope."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":335.836,"endTime":340.316,"body":"So I, I often say to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":335.836,"endTime":340.316,"body":"people who feel fraudulent."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":340.521,"endTime":341.781,"body":"talking about climate change."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":341.861,"endTime":344.951,"body":"I just say to them, well,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":341.861,"endTime":344.951,"body":"actually learn more about it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":345.031,"endTime":348.571,"body":"And I think you'll feel it'll be"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":345.031,"endTime":348.571,"body":"liberating and you'll feel more"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":348.571,"endTime":351.901,"body":"comfortable about speaking about"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":348.571,"endTime":351.901,"body":"it and actually more positive about"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":351.961,"endTime":355.491,"body":"the direction that humanity is going"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":351.961,"endTime":355.491,"body":"in terms of tackling the issue."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":355.501,"endTime":359.241,"body":"So that's kind of the personal,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":355.501,"endTime":359.241,"body":"that's the personal surprise."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":359.601,"endTime":366.722,"body":"The professional surprise was probably"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":359.601,"endTime":366.722,"body":"relating to the speed at which countries,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":366.722,"endTime":370.622,"body":"companies, subnational governments,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":366.722,"endTime":370.622,"body":"so both subnational governments,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":370.622,"endTime":375.512,"body":"I mean regions and cities, have"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":370.622,"endTime":375.512,"body":"taken up this concept of net zero."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":376.042,"endTime":382.912,"body":"Net zero was a scientific"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":376.042,"endTime":382.912,"body":"concept that was, I think, first"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":382.992,"endTime":388.402,"body":"tabled in 2008 by Miles Allen"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":382.992,"endTime":388.402,"body":"and a fellow Kiwi, Dave Frayne."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":388.732,"endTime":395.582,"body":"To go from 2008 to being a new"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":388.732,"endTime":395.582,"body":"scientific principle, to being part of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":395.592,"endTime":400.597,"body":"the policy landscape through the Paris"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":395.592,"endTime":400.597,"body":"Agreement in 2015 and then hit the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":400.697,"endTime":406.397,"body":"actual mainstream around 2018 in the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":400.697,"endTime":406.397,"body":"wake of Greta Thunberg inspired climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":406.437,"endTime":410.677,"body":"consciousness and the IPCC's, I should"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":406.437,"endTime":410.677,"body":"say, the Intergovernmental Panel on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":410.677,"endTime":413.087,"body":"Climate Change's special report on 1."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":413.087,"endTime":413.447,"body":"5 degrees."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":414.017,"endTime":416.737,"body":"That was an unbelievable surprise."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":416.747,"endTime":420.077,"body":"When I joined the ECIU,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":416.747,"endTime":420.077,"body":"I'd never heard of NetZero."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":420.797,"endTime":425.727,"body":"And then as soon as I joined,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":420.797,"endTime":425.727,"body":"about six months later, I created"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":425.727,"endTime":432.627,"body":"a little infographic and a small"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":425.727,"endTime":432.627,"body":"database on what, countries and big"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":432.637,"endTime":434.627,"body":"companies were doing on NetZero."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":435.397,"endTime":439.459,"body":"And suddenly, that snowballed,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":435.397,"endTime":439.459,"body":"and went viral on Climate Twitter."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":439.739,"endTime":444.129,"body":"We were approached by Oxford University"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":439.739,"endTime":444.129,"body":"and two other international organizations,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":444.129,"endTime":447.449,"body":"one in the US and one in Germany,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":444.129,"endTime":447.449,"body":"and we formed the Net Zero Tracker."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":447.799,"endTime":453.309,"body":"And little did we know that we would"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":447.799,"endTime":453.309,"body":"see the amount of GDP covered by Net"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":453.309,"endTime":459.559,"body":"Zero increasing from, I think, 18%, to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":453.309,"endTime":459.559,"body":"92% in the space of about 24 months."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":460.119,"endTime":463.809,"body":"So that was unbelievably"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":460.119,"endTime":463.809,"body":"surprising from my perspective."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":464.299,"endTime":467.679,"body":"It almost went too quickly, but we can"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":464.299,"endTime":467.679,"body":"dive into those details because the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":467.679,"endTime":472.459,"body":"policy world, the standards world had a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":467.679,"endTime":472.459,"body":"really difficult time of keeping up with"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":472.459,"endTime":474.409,"body":"that proliferation of net zero targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":474.969,"endTime":477.219,"body":"But yeah, let's leave, let's leave"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":474.969,"endTime":477.219,"body":"those details for a bit little later."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":477.219,"endTime":480.979,"body":"Cause that kind of gets to the, the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":477.219,"endTime":480.979,"body":"lack of integrity and the confusion"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":480.989,"endTime":482.149,"body":"around net zero more generally."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":483.189,"endTime":486.339,"body":"Okay, so for who are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":483.189,"endTime":486.339,"body":"listening, who might not be aware,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":486.349,"endTime":488.239,"body":"just give me a little bit more detail."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":488.239,"endTime":491.089,"body":"I mean, we can guess from the name,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":488.239,"endTime":491.089,"body":"but give me a little bit more detail of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":491.109,"endTime":494.039,"body":"what the net zero tracker is and does."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":494.342,"endTime":494.992,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":495.359,"endTime":499.509,"body":"Firstly, a lot of people get confused"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":495.359,"endTime":499.509,"body":"by as soon as you say tracker, because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":499.579,"endTime":502.949,"body":"we're often conflated with carbon"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":499.579,"endTime":502.949,"body":"tracker, climate action tracker,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":502.959,"endTime":504.459,"body":"a whole bunch of other trackers."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":504.999,"endTime":507.609,"body":"But yes, as you say, it's an"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":504.999,"endTime":507.609,"body":"intuitive name, the Net Zero Tracker."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":507.619,"endTime":508.299,"body":"So what are we?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":508.889,"endTime":513.709,"body":"We're essentially an accountability"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":508.889,"endTime":513.709,"body":"and transparency tool for looking at"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":513.709,"endTime":519.949,"body":"what well, every country, big companies"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":513.709,"endTime":519.949,"body":"the largest regions in the world so we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":519.949,"endTime":524.509,"body":"look at all regions in the 25 largest"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":519.949,"endTime":524.509,"body":"emitting nations in the world, and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":524.529,"endTime":526.859,"body":"every city with over 500,000 people."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":527.559,"endTime":531.909,"body":"So in total, the Net Zero Tracker"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":527.559,"endTime":531.909,"body":"looks at over 4,000 entities."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":532.479,"endTime":536.899,"body":"Earlier this year, we also added the 100"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":532.479,"endTime":536.899,"body":"biggest private firms in the world because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":536.899,"endTime":538.379,"body":"for us, that was a bit of a black hole."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":538.839,"endTime":542.079,"body":"So, at the tracker, we have"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":538.839,"endTime":542.079,"body":"to balance breadth with depth."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":542.439,"endTime":547.359,"body":"And at the moment, we've had a real"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":542.439,"endTime":547.359,"body":"bias for breadth rather than depth."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":547.779,"endTime":552.459,"body":"And now we have been criticized for that,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":547.779,"endTime":552.459,"body":"but it is mainly a resourcing problem."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":553.099,"endTime":555.989,"body":"We can't look more deeply"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":553.099,"endTime":555.989,"body":"into some of these targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":556.069,"endTime":559.359,"body":"And our friends and partners"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":556.069,"endTime":559.359,"body":"at New Climate Institute, they"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":559.359,"endTime":560.989,"body":"do these deep dives every year."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":560.989,"endTime":563.169,"body":"So they compliment our work."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":563.339,"endTime":566.169,"body":"Sometimes what I say is thin scrutinizing."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":566.909,"endTime":570.399,"body":"But, so just to dive, dive into a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":566.909,"endTime":570.399,"body":"little bit more detail on the tracker."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":570.776,"endTime":575.632,"body":"So at the heart of the tracker, is a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":570.776,"endTime":575.632,"body":"small army of Oxford University students"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":575.642,"endTime":577.602,"body":"that actually collect the data manually."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":578.042,"endTime":582.569,"body":"So, as you won't be surprised to hear,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":578.042,"endTime":582.569,"body":"Tom, and many of the folks listening in,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":583.094,"endTime":586.504,"body":"there's a lot of reporting holes out there"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":583.094,"endTime":586.504,"body":"and there's very little standardization"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":586.624,"endTime":588.104,"body":"across that reporting landscape."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":588.324,"endTime":591.184,"body":"And so what we, what we've tried to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":588.324,"endTime":591.184,"body":"do is we've tried to create the most"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":591.204,"endTime":597.534,"body":"comprehensive, credible, consistent,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":591.204,"endTime":597.534,"body":"and current database in the world using"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":597.534,"endTime":601.934,"body":"manual data collection, looking at"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":597.534,"endTime":601.934,"body":"publicly available documents and trying"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":601.934,"endTime":604.244,"body":"to standardize that in the first instance."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":604.514,"endTime":606.924,"body":"And so that's a huge, you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":604.514,"endTime":606.924,"body":"know, it's a monumental effort."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":607.827,"endTime":612.097,"body":"But now I just want to say a big thanks"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":607.827,"endTime":612.097,"body":"to actually if some of those volunteers,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":612.097,"endTime":613.537,"body":"some of those volunteers may be listing."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":613.887,"endTime":617.667,"body":"I think we've had about 500 go through"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":613.887,"endTime":617.667,"body":"the system and I think we have about"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":617.667,"endTime":619.317,"body":"200 in the system at the moment."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":619.777,"endTime":622.747,"body":"Those volunteers are mainly at"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":619.777,"endTime":622.747,"body":"the University of Oxford, but we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":622.747,"endTime":626.747,"body":"have expanded that cohort to other"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":622.747,"endTime":626.747,"body":"universities around the world as well."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":627.691,"endTime":627.996,"body":"What else?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":628.906,"endTime":630.646,"body":"To just bring the Tracker to light."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":631.046,"endTime":633.026,"body":"So I've mentioned four organizations."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":633.056,"endTime":635.776,"body":"I think I've named dropped"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":633.056,"endTime":635.776,"body":"Oxford University of named"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":635.776,"endTime":637.726,"body":"dropped new climate Institute."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":637.966,"endTime":641.676,"body":"Another one that's worth mentioning"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":637.966,"endTime":641.676,"body":"is the Data Driven Envirolab"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":642.076,"endTime":643.636,"body":"We want to go with this."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":644.036,"endTime":646.606,"body":"Because I don't think we're going"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":644.036,"endTime":646.606,"body":"to have standardized reporting"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":646.616,"endTime":648.006,"body":"around the world anytime soon."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":648.196,"endTime":649.326,"body":"Probably not until the 2030s."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":650.186,"endTime":652.276,"body":"I think we'll get there, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":650.186,"endTime":652.276,"body":"we're not quite there yet."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":652.286,"endTime":655.939,"body":"So we are going to need these, this"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":652.286,"endTime":655.939,"body":"pool of volunteers doing what they"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":655.939,"endTime":660.021,"body":"do best, but we'd love to make the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":655.939,"endTime":660.021,"body":"user experience better by integrating"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":660.101,"endTime":663.931,"body":"ChatGPT infrastructure, trying to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":660.101,"endTime":663.931,"body":"be at the vanguard of web scraping."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":664.291,"endTime":668.331,"body":"And also AI to try and make the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":664.291,"endTime":668.331,"body":"life easier for these volunteers"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":668.331,"endTime":671.471,"body":"and also the data more, even"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":668.331,"endTime":671.471,"body":"more credible than it is today."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":672.321,"endTime":674.981,"body":"So, I think that brings the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":672.321,"endTime":674.981,"body":"tracker to light a little bit."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":675.744,"endTime":679.024,"body":"The other thing I should mention"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":675.744,"endTime":679.024,"body":"is that what we're trying to do is"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":679.024,"endTime":681.304,"body":"we're trying to alleviate confusion."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":681.314,"endTime":684.454,"body":"I think about net zero from this"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":681.314,"endTime":684.454,"body":"perspective, net zero suffers"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":684.454,"endTime":689.214,"body":"from a deficit of credibility"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":684.454,"endTime":689.214,"body":"and a surplus of confusion."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":689.924,"endTime":693.074,"body":"And so what we try and do is we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":689.924,"endTime":693.074,"body":"try and alleviate that confusion."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":693.464,"endTime":698.144,"body":"And we see that actually as a prerequisite"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":693.464,"endTime":698.144,"body":"for trying to tackle the deficit of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":698.144,"endTime":703.959,"body":"credibility around these net zero targets"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":698.144,"endTime":703.959,"body":"that have been set by, I think over"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":703.959,"endTime":705.899,"body":"1, 500 entities that we track today."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":706.579,"endTime":707.859,"body":"For me that's a really big one."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":707.899,"endTime":711.039,"body":"I said earlier that I love to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":707.899,"endTime":711.039,"body":"explain climate change science"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":711.039,"endTime":714.199,"body":"and policy to the public because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":711.039,"endTime":714.199,"body":"it is so enormously complex."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":714.199,"endTime":718.539,"body":"And so, one thing in the Tracker we do try"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":714.199,"endTime":718.539,"body":"and do is, is break things down to make it"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":718.549,"endTime":721.979,"body":"really simple so that people can actually"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":718.549,"endTime":721.979,"body":"understand Net Zero in the first instance."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":722.436,"endTime":725.406,"body":"So, is it the case that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":722.436,"endTime":725.406,"body":"you're saying, okay, this particular"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":725.416,"endTime":728.606,"body":"entity, be it a government, be it a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":725.416,"endTime":728.606,"body":"company, have said they're going to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":728.606,"endTime":733.536,"body":"get to net zero by X date, but looking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":728.606,"endTime":733.536,"body":"at their data, they're only X percent"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":733.556,"endTime":738.076,"body":"into it, and so the chance of them"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":733.556,"endTime":738.076,"body":"getting it by date Y are negligible or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":738.086,"endTime":739.526,"body":"fantastic or somewhere in the middle?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":740.326,"endTime":741.096,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":741.106,"endTime":745.961,"body":"So what we do is we look at the intent,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":741.106,"endTime":745.961,"body":"and the integrity of net zero targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":746.011,"endTime":747.521,"body":"We don't look at the implementation."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":747.881,"endTime":750.891,"body":"And of course, people say, well,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":747.881,"endTime":750.891,"body":"you need to be looking at if"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":750.891,"endTime":752.001,"body":"they're actually reducing emissions."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":752.061,"endTime":753.721,"body":"Yes, of course, we do"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":752.061,"endTime":753.721,"body":"need to be doing that."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":753.721,"endTime":755.981,"body":"But we're trying to get"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":753.721,"endTime":755.981,"body":"our house in order first."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":756.421,"endTime":758.951,"body":"And what we're looking at, we're"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":756.421,"endTime":758.951,"body":"looking at these entities to see if"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":758.951,"endTime":760.311,"body":"they've got their houses in order."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":760.811,"endTime":762.251,"body":"So yes, we ask that first question."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":762.411,"endTime":763.561,"body":"Do they have a net zero target?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":764.591,"endTime":766.631,"body":"But then we dive into"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":764.591,"endTime":766.631,"body":"the important details."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":766.631,"endTime":768.991,"body":"And this is the bread and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":766.631,"endTime":768.991,"body":"butter of the Net Zero Tracker."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":769.041,"endTime":772.281,"body":"So we look at things"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":769.041,"endTime":772.281,"body":"like, do they have a plan?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":773.191,"endTime":774.841,"body":"And is, is that plan complete?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":776.231,"endTime":779.171,"body":"Are they being transparent around"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":776.231,"endTime":779.171,"body":"the use of offsets or carbon credits?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":779.841,"endTime":783.221,"body":"Often, you one of the findings we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":779.841,"endTime":783.221,"body":"find time and time again is that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":783.221,"endTime":784.281,"body":"they're not being transparent."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":784.281,"endTime":787.281,"body":"These companies are not telling us what"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":784.281,"endTime":787.281,"body":"they're going to do around offsets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":787.861,"endTime":791.094,"body":"And that undermines their whole"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":787.861,"endTime":791.094,"body":"strategy to get to Net Zero."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":791.844,"endTime":793.404,"body":"Other things like progress reporting."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":793.924,"endTime":796.774,"body":"Companies other entities"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":793.924,"endTime":796.774,"body":"reporting on progress annually."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":797.404,"endTime":798.834,"body":"Are they covering all greenhouse gases?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":799.309,"endTime":802.419,"body":"So not just CO2 but also"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":799.309,"endTime":802.419,"body":"methane and nitrous oxide."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":802.799,"endTime":805.799,"body":"If you're a company, are they"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":802.799,"endTime":805.799,"body":"covering scope three emissions?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":805.979,"endTime":809.199,"body":"So that's hugely important and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":805.979,"endTime":809.199,"body":"we have seen growth in that area."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":809.509,"endTime":812.929,"body":"You know, which has been one of the few"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":809.509,"endTime":812.929,"body":"positives that we have consistently found."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":813.649,"endTime":813.869,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":814.629,"endTime":817.869,"body":"Another element is, is there"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":814.629,"endTime":817.869,"body":"accountability at the company at the board"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":817.869,"endTime":820.582,"body":"level for hitting some of these targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":821.052,"endTime":826.562,"body":"So we look at a range of integrity"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":821.052,"endTime":826.562,"body":"criteria, which we borrowed from the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":826.562,"endTime":832.482,"body":"UN Expert Group on Net Zero Targets"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":826.562,"endTime":832.482,"body":"and also the Race to Zero Campaign."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":832.572,"endTime":835.142,"body":"So they're both UN"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":832.572,"endTime":835.142,"body":"orchestration initiatives."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":835.442,"endTime":837.182,"body":"We don't try to reinvent the wheel."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":837.182,"endTime":841.03,"body":"We actually look at those standards"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":837.182,"endTime":841.03,"body":"that are emerging out there and we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":841.03,"endTime":843.472,"body":"apply them to our over 4,000 entities."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":844.022,"endTime":845.202,"body":"We ask very simple questions."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":845.845,"endTime":849.015,"body":"Each year we produce a report"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":845.845,"endTime":849.015,"body":"called Net Zero Stock Take."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":849.512,"endTime":854.112,"body":"And what we found is we found"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":849.512,"endTime":854.112,"body":"growth at the intent level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":854.352,"endTime":858.412,"body":"So there are more and more"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":854.352,"endTime":858.412,"body":"companies, cities and regions"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":858.422,"endTime":859.402,"body":"setting Net Zero targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":860.282,"endTime":863.352,"body":"Companies have increased by"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":860.282,"endTime":863.352,"body":"23% in the last 18 months."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":863.892,"endTime":867.922,"body":"Regions have increased by about"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":863.892,"endTime":867.922,"body":"28% in the last 18 months."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":867.922,"endTime":869.752,"body":"And, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":867.922,"endTime":869.752,"body":"great progress on intent."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":870.512,"endTime":875.288,"body":"But when we look at integrity, the,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":870.512,"endTime":875.288,"body":"standards that we use, we call them"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":875.328,"endTime":877.138,"body":"minimum procedural requirements."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":877.792,"endTime":881.072,"body":"We just want to know, are these entities,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":877.792,"endTime":881.072,"body":"are these companies and these regions?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":881.754,"endTime":884.054,"body":"Are they doing the Minimum"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":881.754,"endTime":884.054,"body":"Procedural Requirements?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":884.054,"endTime":887.727,"body":"And what we consistently  find"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":884.054,"endTime":887.727,"body":"is that very few are doing that."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":888.584,"endTime":893.804,"body":"So about one in 20 across all entity"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":888.584,"endTime":893.804,"body":"groups are actually hitting all"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":893.844,"endTime":895.204,"body":"Minimum Procedure Requirements."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":895.254,"endTime":897.994,"body":"So we look at about 7 or 8 criteria."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":898.103,"endTime":901.343,"body":"So a lot of entities are doing"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":898.103,"endTime":901.343,"body":"four or five of those, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":901.343,"endTime":902.273,"body":"they're not doing all eight."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":902.553,"endTime":907.893,"body":"And we actually see all eight as"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":902.553,"endTime":907.893,"body":"integral to being able to claim that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":907.893,"endTime":909.743,"body":"you have a robust net zero target."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":911.473,"endTime":911.853,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":912.273,"endTime":916.003,"body":"we're, we're hearing more, you talked"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":912.273,"endTime":916.003,"body":"about earlier, but subnational governments"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":943.4530000000001,"endTime":945.0630000000001,"body":"and their role in climate action."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":945.0630000000001,"endTime":950.253,"body":"Can you tell us why cities, states and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":945.0630000000001,"endTime":950.253,"body":"regions are so critical to achieving"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":950.253,"endTime":953.3860000000001,"body":"net zero targets and what's holding"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":950.253,"endTime":953.3860000000001,"body":"them back if they're, as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":953.3960000000001,"endTime":955.2360000000001,"body":"not hitting all their, their targets?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":955.5600000000001,"endTime":956.3900000000001,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":956.452,"endTime":957.052,"body":"Happy to."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":957.2320000000001,"endTime":960.6020000000001,"body":"Often there's a focus on those"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":957.2320000000001,"endTime":960.6020000000001,"body":"charismatic countries and charismatic"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":960.6120000000001,"endTime":962.8720000000001,"body":"companies that we always see in the news."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":963.0010000000001,"endTime":967.2810000000001,"body":"And so this year we decided to have"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":963.0010000000001,"endTime":967.2810000000001,"body":"a special focus on subnationals."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":967.341,"endTime":969.797,"body":"And so by subnational"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":967.341,"endTime":969.797,"body":"governments, I mean both regional"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":969.797,"endTime":971.397,"body":"governments and city governments."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":971.547,"endTime":973.417,"body":"We see the importance of these entities."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":973.7520000000001,"endTime":977.4820000000001,"body":"I mean, they are the real world"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":973.7520000000001,"endTime":977.4820000000001,"body":"actors and with the prospect of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":977.682,"endTime":981.3380000000001,"body":"a potential Donald Trump second"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":977.682,"endTime":981.3380000000001,"body":"administration, these subnational"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":981.3380000000001,"endTime":984.4280000000001,"body":"actors are going to potentially"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":981.3380000000001,"endTime":984.4280000000001,"body":"become even more important over time."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":984.8380000000001,"endTime":987.628,"body":"And there are two main reasons"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":984.8380000000001,"endTime":987.628,"body":"why we concentrate our efforts"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":987.778,"endTime":991.298,"body":"on looking at subnationals and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":987.778,"endTime":991.298,"body":"that's summed up in two phrases."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":991.298,"endTime":992.388,"body":"So Vertical Governance."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":993.2180000000001,"endTime":994.3080000000001,"body":"That's a really important term."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":994.3380000000001,"endTime":996.4780000000001,"body":"And another, another term"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":994.3380000000001,"endTime":996.4780000000001,"body":"is The Ambition Loop."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":996.988,"endTime":1001.8280000000001,"body":"So Vertical Governance, it kind"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":996.988,"endTime":1001.8280000000001,"body":"of says what it is on the tin."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1002.298,"endTime":1006.418,"body":"So are subnational governments"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1002.298,"endTime":1006.418,"body":"lining up with targets and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1006.418,"endTime":1007.8180000000001,"body":"strategies at the national level?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1008.3280000000001,"endTime":1011.9280000000001,"body":"And then getting to the Ambition"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1008.3280000000001,"endTime":1011.9280000000001,"body":"Loop side of the equation."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1012.9380000000001,"endTime":1019.378,"body":"Are they influencing what's happening"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1012.9380000000001,"endTime":1019.378,"body":"at the national level or vice versa."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1019.388,"endTime":1022.8180000000001,"body":"So what national governments are"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1019.388,"endTime":1022.8180000000001,"body":"doing around policies, around"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1022.8280000000001,"endTime":1026.788,"body":"targeting, around strategies, having"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1022.8280000000001,"endTime":1026.788,"body":"an influence at the sub national"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1026.788,"endTime":1028.408,"body":"level and indeed at the company level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1029.108,"endTime":1033.368,"body":"That's why it's so important to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1029.108,"endTime":1033.368,"body":"look at the whole chain rather"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1033.368,"endTime":1037.398,"body":"than concentrating, say, just on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1033.368,"endTime":1037.398,"body":"companies or just on countries."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1037.868,"endTime":1040.793,"body":"And that's one of the founding principles"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1037.868,"endTime":1040.793,"body":"of the Net Zero Tracker because we want"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1040.793,"endTime":1044.583,"body":"to look at the whole of the economy"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1040.793,"endTime":1044.583,"body":"and what the whole of the economy"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1044.583,"endTime":1045.893,"body":"were trying to do around net zero."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1046.313,"endTime":1051.053,"body":"Just to bring the Ambition Loop to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1046.313,"endTime":1051.053,"body":"life a little bit more, I often define"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1051.053,"endTime":1055.403,"body":"it as the bidirectional relationship"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1051.053,"endTime":1055.403,"body":"between different levels of governance."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1055.9930000000002,"endTime":1059.3880000000001,"body":"And there is emerging evidence that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1055.9930000000002,"endTime":1059.3880000000001,"body":"actually there is an ambition loop."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1059.968,"endTime":1062.788,"body":"And sometimes I think of,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1059.968,"endTime":1062.788,"body":"think of it like a sandwich."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1063.318,"endTime":1065.438,"body":"You know, so how do you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1063.318,"endTime":1065.438,"body":"actually get action?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1065.438,"endTime":1069.058,"body":"You need to get groundswell and you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1065.438,"endTime":1069.058,"body":"also need the kind of top down stuff."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1069.678,"endTime":1074.268,"body":"And in some, in some locations we are"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1069.678,"endTime":1074.268,"body":"seeing that you know, which is great."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1074.288,"endTime":1078.558,"body":"So what we did find in this recent"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1074.288,"endTime":1078.558,"body":"Stocktake is that national targets"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1078.578,"endTime":1084.1580000000001,"body":"often serve as a ceiling to climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1078.578,"endTime":1084.1580000000001,"body":"ambition at the city and regional level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1084.823,"endTime":1087.2730000000001,"body":"But that's, in some countries,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1084.823,"endTime":1087.2730000000001,"body":"some national governments"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1087.2730000000001,"endTime":1088.2730000000001,"body":"do go above and beyond."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1088.2830000000001,"endTime":1094.833,"body":"So, for example, in Germany, in India"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1088.2830000000001,"endTime":1094.833,"body":"in Australia, we have seen regions"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1094.833,"endTime":1098.903,"body":"actually pushing further and going beyond"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1094.833,"endTime":1098.903,"body":"what the national government has said."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1099.403,"endTime":1104.2730000000001,"body":"And in some cases, I think in the case"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1099.403,"endTime":1104.2730000000001,"body":"of Australia, Japan, and Mexico, you've"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1104.2730000000001,"endTime":1109.953,"body":"actually seen a case where some national"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1104.2730000000001,"endTime":1109.953,"body":"actors setting targets and setting robust"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1109.963,"endTime":1115.2430000000002,"body":"strategies and increased ambition which"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1109.963,"endTime":1115.2430000000002,"body":"in turn, hopefully increases action."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1115.7530000000002,"endTime":1119.91,"body":"So, there's a lot that subnational actors"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1115.7530000000002,"endTime":1119.91,"body":"can do and they are at the very forefront"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1119.91,"endTime":1121.96,"body":"or at the tip of the turbine of net zero."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.0800000000002,"endTime":1127.7450000000001,"body":"You mentioned that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.0800000000002,"endTime":1127.7450000000001,"body":"the companies and cities, a significant"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1127.805,"endTime":1130.435,"body":"proportion of them still lack integrity."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1130.4950000000001,"endTime":1134.4750000000001,"body":"How do we, how do we bridge that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1130.4950000000001,"endTime":1134.4750000000001,"body":"gap between ambition and action?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1134.4750000000001,"endTime":1137.115,"body":"And what's been the biggest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1134.4750000000001,"endTime":1137.115,"body":"barrier in improving the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1137.115,"endTime":1138.305,"body":"quality of these commitments?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1138.66,"endTime":1141.94,"body":"I'll start in reverse"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1138.66,"endTime":1141.94,"body":"order because I spoke about confusion."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1142.46,"endTime":1147.92,"body":"I genuinely think the surplus of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1142.46,"endTime":1147.92,"body":"confusion is a massive impediment to these"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1147.92,"endTime":1150.275,"body":"entities actually improving integrity."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1150.795,"endTime":1156.685,"body":"And by confusion, I mean, basically, if"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1150.795,"endTime":1156.685,"body":"you've got a lot of different standards,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1156.6950000000002,"endTime":1161.355,"body":"so say you've got 10 different standards"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1156.6950000000002,"endTime":1161.355,"body":"trying to achieve the same thing, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1161.355,"endTime":1165.595,"body":"all saying slightly different things"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1161.355,"endTime":1165.595,"body":"that gives opportunities to entities,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1165.905,"endTime":1170.395,"body":"especially companies to hide behind"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1165.905,"endTime":1170.395,"body":"the least credible, the lowest common"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1170.395,"endTime":1172.535,"body":"denominator, that least credible standard."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1172.535,"endTime":1174.515,"body":"So that's I think what we've seen."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1174.525,"endTime":1179.6950000000002,"body":"And so one of the hugely important"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1174.525,"endTime":1179.6950000000002,"body":"elements around our ecosystem,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1179.6950000000002,"endTime":1183.992,"body":"around the accountability ecosystem,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1179.6950000000002,"endTime":1183.992,"body":"is to, try and converge around"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1183.992,"endTime":1185.242,"body":"what good net zero looks like."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1185.892,"endTime":1187.892,"body":"And so for me, that's hugely important."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1187.942,"endTime":1189.7920000000001,"body":"And so we are seeing convergence."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1190.2820000000002,"endTime":1193.7720000000002,"body":"We are seeing for example, the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1190.2820000000002,"endTime":1193.7720000000002,"body":"International Sustainability Standards"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1193.7720000000002,"endTime":1198.442,"body":"Board, ISSB, have just brought"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1193.7720000000002,"endTime":1198.442,"body":"out their disclosure standards."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1198.457,"endTime":1203.287,"body":"That's been taken up by 20 plus"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1198.457,"endTime":1203.287,"body":"countries already, or promised to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1203.287,"endTime":1209.257,"body":"be, and you've also got the net zero"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1203.287,"endTime":1209.257,"body":"standard, which has been developed by ISO."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1209.257,"endTime":1211.9170000000001,"body":"So the International"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1209.257,"endTime":1211.9170000000001,"body":"Organization for Standardization."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1212.4170000000001,"endTime":1215.797,"body":"If we can get that convergence,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1212.4170000000001,"endTime":1215.797,"body":"I think there's going to be fewer"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1215.797,"endTime":1217.847,"body":"places for these entities to hide."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1218.327,"endTime":1222.912,"body":"Another element of the lack of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1218.327,"endTime":1222.912,"body":"integrity is that there is a disparity"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1222.942,"endTime":1232.932,"body":"between the resources of say, a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1222.942,"endTime":1232.932,"body":"S\u0026P 500 company versus a city in"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1233.222,"endTime":1236.622,"body":"Mongolia or a city in Kazakhstan."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1237.172,"endTime":1241.519,"body":"So, that's an interesting area that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1237.172,"endTime":1241.519,"body":"demands a lot more research and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1241.519,"endTime":1244.3690000000001,"body":"it is a sensitive subject, because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1241.519,"endTime":1244.3690000000001,"body":"it's important that you get those"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1244.439,"endTime":1246.069,"body":"equity and sectoral dimensions right."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1246.7250000000001,"endTime":1251.655,"body":"We shouldn't carry too large a hammer"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1246.7250000000001,"endTime":1251.655,"body":"on, on the integrity aspects, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1251.655,"endTime":1254.675,"body":"what we should be seeing across"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1251.655,"endTime":1254.675,"body":"all entities is improvements."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1254.7250000000001,"endTime":1259.059,"body":"So some entities may start at a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1254.7250000000001,"endTime":1259.059,"body":"lower place but we do need to see"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1259.059,"endTime":1261.079,"body":"those, all those trends increasing."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1261.6390000000001,"endTime":1265.049,"body":"If we get increased integrity, we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1261.6390000000001,"endTime":1265.049,"body":"think that we're going to start"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1265.059,"endTime":1266.669,"body":"to see actual implementation."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1268.3690000000001,"endTime":1270.489,"body":"Again, by implementation,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1268.3690000000001,"endTime":1270.489,"body":"I mean emission reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1271.339,"endTime":1271.749,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1271.779,"endTime":1275.709,"body":"And you mentioned that over 40"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1271.779,"endTime":1275.709,"body":"percent of subnational governments"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1275.769,"endTime":1277.929,"body":"still have no mitigation targets."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1278.539,"endTime":1279.209,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1279.949,"endTime":1283.469,"body":"Why do you think so many major actors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1279.949,"endTime":1283.469,"body":"are still sitting on the sidelines?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1283.469,"endTime":1286.8690000000001,"body":"And what can national governments"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1283.469,"endTime":1286.8690000000001,"body":"do to nudge them towards"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1286.959,"endTime":1288.189,"body":"ambitious climate goals?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1288.862,"endTime":1289.912,"body":"Yeah, it's a great question."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1289.992,"endTime":1291.712,"body":"And I wish I knew the answer."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1292.332,"endTime":1296.5320000000002,"body":"And it's not, and it's not just, it's not"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1292.332,"endTime":1296.5320000000002,"body":"just subnational regions and companies."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1296.702,"endTime":1297.472,"body":"it's also countries."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1297.492,"endTime":1304.3120000000001,"body":"So I mentioned that 92 percent of GDP"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1297.492,"endTime":1304.3120000000001,"body":"is covered in a net zero target, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1304.3120000000001,"endTime":1307.505,"body":"that still leaves about 50 nations"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1304.3120000000001,"endTime":1307.505,"body":"that haven't got a net zero target."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1308.895,"endTime":1313.005,"body":"And we're not asking, for much we're not"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1308.895,"endTime":1313.005,"body":"asking for a net zero target of 2050."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1313.655,"endTime":1317.505,"body":"We just, we just would love"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1313.655,"endTime":1317.505,"body":"to know if a country has a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1317.505,"endTime":1318.765,"body":"net zero target this century."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1318.785,"endTime":1319.7250000000001,"body":"That would be great."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1319.905,"endTime":1322.835,"body":"If it was 2090, we're still going"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1319.905,"endTime":1322.835,"body":"to put it on our, in our database."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1323.335,"endTime":1324.345,"body":"What can national governments do?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1324.625,"endTime":1330.079,"body":"Now there is  there is talk of countries"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1324.625,"endTime":1330.079,"body":"mandating transition strategies from"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1330.079,"endTime":1331.929,"body":"both regions and from companies."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1332.339,"endTime":1336.564,"body":"In the EU for example you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1332.339,"endTime":1336.564,"body":"have got the The Corporate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1336.784,"endTime":1339.7440000000001,"body":"Sustainability Standards Directive."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1339.7440000000001,"endTime":1340.584,"body":"due diligence directive."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1341.1290000000001,"endTime":1343.8690000000001,"body":"That's the one, yeah, CSDDD."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1344.419,"endTime":1348.0990000000002,"body":"Yeah, so, you know, that's going to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1344.419,"endTime":1348.0990000000002,"body":"mandate transition plans from companies,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1348.0990000000002,"endTime":1352.929,"body":"not just large companies in the EU, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1348.0990000000002,"endTime":1352.929,"body":"also large companies outside of the EU"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1352.959,"endTime":1356.903,"body":"that have big supply chains in the EU"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1352.959,"endTime":1356.903,"body":"or at least want to sell into the EU."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1356.903,"endTime":1359.5330000000001,"body":"So, and you know, you're, you're"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1356.903,"endTime":1359.5330000000001,"body":"obviously familiar with that, Tom."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1359.623,"endTime":1361.723,"body":"So we are seeing progress on that front."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1361.923,"endTime":1365.163,"body":"But we do need those extra territorial"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1361.923,"endTime":1365.163,"body":"dimensions that are coming out of the EU"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1365.823,"endTime":1367.953,"body":"to be taken up by other jurisdictions."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1368.643,"endTime":1371.353,"body":"So yes, we've got about 40"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1368.643,"endTime":1371.353,"body":"percent of actors that, that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1371.353,"endTime":1372.343,"body":"need to set net zero targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1372.343,"endTime":1377.0130000000001,"body":"We often talk about net zeros, we need"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1372.343,"endTime":1377.0130000000001,"body":"more but most importantly, we need better."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1377.813,"endTime":1382.4080000000001,"body":"We've heard some talk as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1377.813,"endTime":1382.4080000000001,"body":"well around spheres of influence beyond"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1382.4180000000001,"endTime":1384.4080000000001,"body":"the company's direct value chain."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1384.4080000000001,"endTime":1388.708,"body":"Can you explain what that means"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1384.4080000000001,"endTime":1388.708,"body":"in practical terms and how leading"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1388.708,"endTime":1392.271,"body":"companies can use this concept"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1388.708,"endTime":1392.271,"body":"to, genuinely make a difference?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1393.211,"endTime":1393.5410000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1393.661,"endTime":1399.351,"body":"It's essentially sum it up with"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1393.661,"endTime":1399.351,"body":"don't lobby against climate action."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1400.011,"endTime":1400.741,"body":"Lobby for it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1401.271,"endTime":1406.151,"body":"And I often compare it to individual"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1401.271,"endTime":1406.151,"body":"behavioural change, because we know"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1406.151,"endTime":1409.511,"body":"that there's a dichotomy between"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1406.151,"endTime":1409.511,"body":"individual behavioural change and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1409.511,"endTime":1411.3010000000002,"body":"political change or systemic change."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1411.881,"endTime":1415.671,"body":"And I think it's the same concept"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1411.881,"endTime":1415.671,"body":"at the actual entity level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1415.8010000000002,"endTime":1419.928,"body":"So, at the Net Zero Tracker"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1415.8010000000002,"endTime":1419.928,"body":"we look at what Companies are"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1419.928,"endTime":1421.268,"body":"doing inside the value chain."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1422.198,"endTime":1423.1380000000001,"body":"Do they have targets?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1423.248,"endTime":1424.968,"body":"Are they covering all emissions?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1425.3980000000001,"endTime":1430.111,"body":"But this spheres of influence concept"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1425.3980000000001,"endTime":1430.111,"body":"It actually looks at what a company"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1430.111,"endTime":1433.851,"body":"is trying to do outside of their value"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1430.111,"endTime":1433.851,"body":"chain or beyond their value chain."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1434.0510000000002,"endTime":1437.8110000000001,"body":"You might be familiar with the new"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1434.0510000000002,"endTime":1437.8110000000001,"body":"term beyond value chain mitigation."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1438.351,"endTime":1441.951,"body":"That's starting to rise up the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1438.351,"endTime":1441.951,"body":"ranks in, in the climate ecosystem."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1442.631,"endTime":1446.471,"body":"And so It's getting to the point that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1442.631,"endTime":1446.471,"body":"what a business is doing, are they"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1446.641,"endTime":1450.701,"body":"diversifying their business models that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1446.641,"endTime":1450.701,"body":"are going to be fit for a net zero world?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1450.911,"endTime":1454.271,"body":"For example, are they aligning on policy?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1454.861,"endTime":1458.221,"body":"And as I said before, are they, are they"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1454.861,"endTime":1458.221,"body":"making sure that they're not lobbying"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1458.231,"endTime":1461.0910000000001,"body":"against climate action but for it?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1461.511,"endTime":1465.391,"body":"And not just directly, but also"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1461.511,"endTime":1465.391,"body":"indirectly through their trade memberships"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1465.5710000000001,"endTime":1466.851,"body":"and their industry associations."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1467.601,"endTime":1468.911,"body":"So that's a huge part of it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1469.3410000000001,"endTime":1471.421,"body":"And we've got a great"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1469.3410000000001,"endTime":1471.421,"body":"partner influence map."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1471.8010000000002,"endTime":1477.231,"body":"We, we, we auto feed their data into"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1471.8010000000002,"endTime":1477.231,"body":"the Net Zero Tracker portal and they"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1477.241,"endTime":1481.461,"body":"actually look at these questions around"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1477.241,"endTime":1481.461,"body":"kind of spheres of influence, lobbying,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1481.461,"endTime":1483.101,"body":"policy, advocacy, and alignment."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1483.521,"endTime":1485.021,"body":"And that's hugely important."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1485.539,"endTime":1488.669,"body":"I would say that's the most important"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1485.539,"endTime":1488.669,"body":"thing that a company can be doing, is"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1488.694,"endTime":1492.424,"body":"aligning their spheres of influence"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1488.694,"endTime":1492.424,"body":"with the net zero transition."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1492.5240000000001,"endTime":1495.304,"body":"Yes, they need their own house"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1492.5240000000001,"endTime":1495.304,"body":"in order, but they need to be"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1495.304,"endTime":1497.354,"body":"contributing to systemic change."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1497.954,"endTime":1502.344,"body":"Just as an individual needs to be thinking"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1497.954,"endTime":1502.344,"body":"about systemic political change rather"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1502.344,"endTime":1504.2740000000001,"body":"than just individual behavioral change."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1505.3010000000002,"endTime":1508.201,"body":"I have a particular interest"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1505.3010000000002,"endTime":1508.201,"body":"in the automotive sector, for example,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1508.201,"endTime":1513.601,"body":"because I'm a big fan of EVs and we can"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1508.201,"endTime":1513.601,"body":"see in the automotive sector, the likes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1513.981,"endTime":1520.8310000000001,"body":"Toyota, who are lobbying against emissions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1513.981,"endTime":1520.8310000000001,"body":"legislation for vehicles, increasingly"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1521.001,"endTime":1525.101,"body":"tightening the legislation they want"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1521.001,"endTime":1525.101,"body":"to be allowed to continue polluting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1525.384,"endTime":1529.884,"body":"You can put that up against other"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1525.384,"endTime":1529.884,"body":"manufacturers, the likes of Volvo Group"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1529.9940000000001,"endTime":1535.2740000000001,"body":"or Volkswagen, who are going the opposite"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1529.9940000000001,"endTime":1535.2740000000001,"body":"direction and lobbying for increased"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1535.2740000000001,"endTime":1537.174,"body":"legislation on emissions for vehicles."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1537.424,"endTime":1540.654,"body":"That's roughly what you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1537.424,"endTime":1540.654,"body":"talking about, right, but broader."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1541.414,"endTime":1542.2740000000001,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1542.414,"endTime":1544.054,"body":"And I shared that I made the mistake."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1544.054,"endTime":1548.444,"body":"We actually had a representative of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1544.054,"endTime":1548.444,"body":"Volvo Group at our net zero stock"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1548.444,"endTime":1550.534,"body":"take launch a couple of weeks ago."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1550.844,"endTime":1553.454,"body":"And I, I mixed up Volvo"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1550.844,"endTime":1553.454,"body":"Group with Volvo Cars."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1554.104,"endTime":1557.0240000000001,"body":"Little did I know, cause I knew"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1554.104,"endTime":1557.0240000000001,"body":"that Volvo Cars had just done a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1557.0240000000001,"endTime":1558.9940000000001,"body":"retreat from one of their targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1559.344,"endTime":1562.671,"body":"And I accused Karen of being part of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1559.344,"endTime":1562.671,"body":"that but of course she was with the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1562.671,"endTime":1565.781,"body":"Volvo Group and she was like no no no"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1562.671,"endTime":1565.781,"body":"no no We go to the opposite direction."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1566.251,"endTime":1567.191,"body":"We're doing all the right things."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1567.201,"endTime":1568.861,"body":"So so that was good to hear."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1569.0410000000002,"endTime":1570.471,"body":"So yes, it's exactly right."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1570.588,"endTime":1574.564,"body":"You've got other leaders that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1570.588,"endTime":1574.564,"body":"InfluenceMap have profiled and surfaced."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1574.614,"endTime":1577.414,"body":"And again, that's, that's also"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1574.614,"endTime":1577.414,"body":"a really important part of this."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1577.7640000000001,"endTime":1581.4940000000001,"body":"We need to be profiling those"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1577.7640000000001,"endTime":1581.4940000000001,"body":"companies that are actually using"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1581.4940000000001,"endTime":1585.554,"body":"their spheres of influence to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1581.4940000000001,"endTime":1585.554,"body":"change the systemic landscape."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1586.154,"endTime":1589.084,"body":"You know, one of the things we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1586.154,"endTime":1589.084,"body":"are guilty of at the Net Zero"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1589.084,"endTime":1592.2340000000002,"body":"Tracker is we concentrate on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1589.084,"endTime":1592.2340000000002,"body":"those with net zero targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1592.989,"endTime":1596.959,"body":"Not necessarily those without"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1592.989,"endTime":1596.959,"body":"them, because, like I was saying,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1597.079,"endTime":1599.5990000000002,"body":"our bread and butter is looking at"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1597.079,"endTime":1599.5990000000002,"body":"the integrity of net zero targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1599.8990000000001,"endTime":1602.809,"body":"So by definition, we're not"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1599.8990000000001,"endTime":1602.809,"body":"looking at those without targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1603.3490000000002,"endTime":1608.954,"body":"So one of the things to counter that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1603.3490000000002,"endTime":1608.954,"body":"is to profile those leaders because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1608.954,"endTime":1612.384,"body":"you don't want to be just banging a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1608.954,"endTime":1612.384,"body":"stick on those that are actually, you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1612.384,"endTime":1615.594,"body":"know, they actually have the intent"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1612.384,"endTime":1615.594,"body":"to go to net zero this century."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1615.964,"endTime":1619.054,"body":"So yeah, yeah, so just vigorously"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1615.964,"endTime":1619.054,"body":"agreeing with you, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.194,"endTime":1620.564,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1620.564,"endTime":1620.804,"body":"great"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1621.296,"endTime":1625.326,"body":"As you've said a few times now, Net"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1621.296,"endTime":1625.326,"body":"Zero Tracker is a global initiative."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1626.059,"endTime":1631.819,"body":"Maybe you'd like to talk about some"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1626.059,"endTime":1631.819,"body":"emerging trends or bright spots in regions"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1631.819,"endTime":1633.469,"body":"or industries that have surprised you."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1634.211,"endTime":1636.201,"body":"I mean, I'm guilty"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1634.211,"endTime":1636.201,"body":"not just the net zero tracker."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1636.241,"endTime":1639.161,"body":"I'm guilty of not I've not"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1636.241,"endTime":1639.161,"body":"profiling the good goodies."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1639.181,"endTime":1642.131,"body":"I mentioned Volvo group, they're"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1639.181,"endTime":1642.131,"body":"doing great things on advocacy."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1642.5410000000002,"endTime":1644.3110000000001,"body":"And also the supply chain issues."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1644.741,"endTime":1649.871,"body":"You've got the likes of Google that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1644.741,"endTime":1649.871,"body":"are exploring 24 7 renewable energy."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1650.592,"endTime":1654.7720000000002,"body":"A lot of their moves are what"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1650.592,"endTime":1654.7720000000002,"body":"we think is counter to climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1654.7720000000002,"endTime":1657.672,"body":"action in terms of the emissions"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1654.7720000000002,"endTime":1657.672,"body":"that are coming from data centers."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1658.012,"endTime":1661.122,"body":"But you know, you are seeing leadership"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1658.012,"endTime":1661.122,"body":"from the Googles, from the Microsofts."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1662.2920000000001,"endTime":1663.8120000000001,"body":"Where else are we seeing leadership?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1664.482,"endTime":1668.7920000000001,"body":"It's one of the usual suspects but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1664.482,"endTime":1668.7920000000001,"body":"Maersk and the shipping industry."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1668.8020000000001,"endTime":1673.8970000000002,"body":"So if we locate, organizations and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1668.8020000000001,"endTime":1673.8970000000002,"body":"companies that are doing good things"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1673.997,"endTime":1679.161,"body":"in what we, what we call hard to abate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1673.997,"endTime":1679.161,"body":"or hard to reduce sectors, we should"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1679.161,"endTime":1683.5610000000001,"body":"be profiling them above those that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1679.161,"endTime":1683.5610000000001,"body":"are doing the right things in easier"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1683.5610000000001,"endTime":1685.941,"body":"to abate or easier to abate sectors."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1686.401,"endTime":1689.881,"body":"So, you know, I mentioned Google and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1686.401,"endTime":1689.881,"body":"Microsoft and they're IT companies."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1690.401,"endTime":1695.404,"body":"But actually, we need to be profiling"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1690.401,"endTime":1695.404,"body":"and surfacing those companies and indeed"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1695.624,"endTime":1699.424,"body":"those regions that are in high emitting"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1695.624,"endTime":1699.424,"body":"nations that are pushing the envelope,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1699.654,"endTime":1702.674,"body":"and that kind of gets to the that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1699.654,"endTime":1702.674,"body":"ambition loop point that I made earlier."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1703.154,"endTime":1706.694,"body":"So, you know, it's not a very"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1703.154,"endTime":1706.694,"body":"satisfactory answer, I don't think,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1706.7540000000001,"endTime":1710.501,"body":"Tom, but I mean, you've, reminded me"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1706.7540000000001,"endTime":1710.501,"body":"yet again that I need to go away and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1710.501,"endTime":1713.391,"body":"look at those that are doing really"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1710.501,"endTime":1713.391,"body":"good things because we need to be"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1713.391,"endTime":1714.906,"body":"profiling those actors more and more."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1715.616,"endTime":1717.356,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1715.616,"endTime":1717.356,"body":"know it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1717.356,"endTime":1721.506,"body":"You mentioned Google and Microsoft,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1717.356,"endTime":1721.506,"body":"obviously in the tech sector, so easier to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1721.506,"endTime":1726.566,"body":"decarbonize, but both Google and Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1721.506,"endTime":1726.566,"body":"have made separate announcements in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.566,"endTime":1732.9560000000001,"body":"last couple of weeks about reopening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1726.566,"endTime":1732.9560000000001,"body":"mothballed nuclear power plants or in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1733.006,"endTime":1736.8410000000001,"body":"Google's place, it's about signing a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1733.006,"endTime":1736.8410000000001,"body":"deal with a company that makes these"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1737.101,"endTime":1741.931,"body":"SMRs, the small nuclear reactors,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1737.101,"endTime":1741.931,"body":"to power their data centers for AI,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1741.941,"endTime":1744.221,"body":"because I guess AI is hard to abate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1744.221,"endTime":1744.251,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1744.271,"endTime":1746.17,"body":"mean, I mean, it's inevitable."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1746.29,"endTime":1748.396,"body":"We, we are going to pursue AI with gusto."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1748.876,"endTime":1750.9560000000001,"body":"So we do need these innovative solutions."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1751.066,"endTime":1753.846,"body":"I, we don't want to fall down the rabbit"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1751.066,"endTime":1753.846,"body":"hole with nuclear, but for me, nuclear"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1753.886,"endTime":1756.156,"body":"is firmly a low carbon technology."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1756.656,"endTime":1760.596,"body":"And so, you know, this is an and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1756.656,"endTime":1760.596,"body":"this is an and question, not an or."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1761.026,"endTime":1765.8010000000002,"body":"So I mean, you'll pick up my, my"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1761.026,"endTime":1765.8010000000002,"body":"position on nuclear on that, but we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1765.8010000000002,"endTime":1768.5710000000001,"body":"need to be doing, and these companies"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1765.8010000000002,"endTime":1768.5710000000001,"body":"need to be doing everything they can"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1768.771,"endTime":1770.511,"body":"to try and source low carbon energy."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1770.851,"endTime":1773.991,"body":"Because, you know, let's"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1770.851,"endTime":1773.991,"body":"face it, this is inevitable."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1774.151,"endTime":1777.5610000000001,"body":"You know, AI is going to change, change"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1774.151,"endTime":1777.5610000000001,"body":"our world over the next 10, 15 years."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1777.981,"endTime":1779.891,"body":"One thing I do I worry about."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1779.901,"endTime":1781.491,"body":"I mean, there's a few"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1779.901,"endTime":1781.491,"body":"things I do worry about."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1781.651,"endTime":1784.001,"body":"I see that understanding more"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1781.651,"endTime":1784.001,"body":"about climate change is liberating,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1784.361,"endTime":1787.871,"body":"but it's also it also reminds you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1784.361,"endTime":1787.871,"body":"about how difficult the challenges."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1787.881,"endTime":1791.431,"body":"So, you know, the rebound effect that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1787.881,"endTime":1791.431,"body":"some people would be familiar with, our"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1791.461,"endTime":1796.701,"body":"disposition from a collective point of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1791.461,"endTime":1796.701,"body":"view of using more energy when it becomes"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1796.701,"endTime":1797.961,"body":"cheaper and more readily available."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1797.961,"endTime":1800.101,"body":"And so it is something"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1797.961,"endTime":1800.101,"body":"I really do worry about."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1800.161,"endTime":1801.8210000000001,"body":"And, you know, we have seen renewables."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1803.366,"endTime":1808.9660000000001,"body":"We have seen demand energy demand shooting"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1803.366,"endTime":1808.9660000000001,"body":"up and renewables, thankfully, covering"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1808.9660000000001,"endTime":1812.826,"body":"that that demand increase, but we do"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1808.9660000000001,"endTime":1812.826,"body":"need that demand increase to at least"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1812.836,"endTime":1817.876,"body":"stagnate so that our renewable deployment"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1812.836,"endTime":1817.876,"body":"can actually start reducing emissions and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1817.876,"endTime":1820.116,"body":"make that gap wider with energy demand."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1821.026,"endTime":1822.626,"body":"So, yeah yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1821.026,"endTime":1822.626,"body":"I'll leave it there."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1822.626,"endTime":1823.886,"body":"I mean, we don't, we don't want to,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1824.386,"endTime":1827.366,"body":"want to dive too far into those, into"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1824.386,"endTime":1827.366,"body":"those details, especially nuclear."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1827.9660000000001,"endTime":1828.346,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1828.346,"endTime":1833.521,"body":"yeah, the old Jevons paradox now coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1828.346,"endTime":1833.521,"body":"back to bite us in the ass again, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1833.641,"endTime":1835.261,"body":"not coal this time, but renewables."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1836.036,"endTime":1837.266,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1837.861,"endTime":1842.0610000000001,"body":"Looking ahead, What"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1837.861,"endTime":1842.0610000000001,"body":"do you think the big challenge"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1842.076,"endTime":1846.4360000000001,"body":"is for countries and companies"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1842.076,"endTime":1846.4360000000001,"body":"that have set net zero targets?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1846.4360000000001,"endTime":1849.096,"body":"Are there any key milestones"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1846.4360000000001,"endTime":1849.096,"body":"that we should keep an eye"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1849.096,"endTime":1850.1660000000002,"body":"on the next couple of years?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1850.4360000000001,"endTime":1853.326,"body":"I know in the next five years,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1850.4360000000001,"endTime":1853.326,"body":"we've got 2030 coming, but, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1853.326,"endTime":1855.126,"body":"know, beyond that or ahead of that."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1856.4260000000002,"endTime":1857.4560000000001,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1857.616,"endTime":1861.826,"body":"You know, so firstly, not all net zero"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1857.616,"endTime":1861.826,"body":"targets are created equal, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1861.826,"endTime":1865.766,"body":"we've touched on that and we've spoken"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1861.826,"endTime":1865.766,"body":"around the need to look at implementation,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1865.766,"endTime":1867.9260000000002,"body":"we need execution of these targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1868.596,"endTime":1873.976,"body":"I think almost all, every entity that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1868.596,"endTime":1873.976,"body":"we, that we track has sort of set"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1874.056,"endTime":1877.2160000000001,"body":"their target, and then being like,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1874.056,"endTime":1877.2160000000001,"body":"okay, how are we going to do this?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1877.287,"endTime":1880.634,"body":"And, you know, that whole question of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1877.287,"endTime":1880.634,"body":"net zero is really, really difficult in a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1880.634,"endTime":1886.6760000000002,"body":"world that still emits 42 billion tons of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1880.634,"endTime":1886.6760000000002,"body":"CO2, plus another 15 billion tons of CO2"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1886.6760000000002,"endTime":1888.1960000000001,"body":"equivalent through other greenhouse gases."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1888.6760000000002,"endTime":1892.296,"body":"We need execution, if we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1888.6760000000002,"endTime":1892.296,"body":"can, and we need leadership."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1892.776,"endTime":1895.7060000000001,"body":"So, countries are looking forward to 2035."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1896.4160000000002,"endTime":1899.516,"body":"So the carbon cutting Nationally"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1896.4160000000002,"endTime":1899.516,"body":"Determined Contributions that they're"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1899.516,"endTime":1900.6960000000001,"body":"going to be sitting next year."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1901.246,"endTime":1904.496,"body":"And so we really need, we talked"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1901.246,"endTime":1904.496,"body":"about how regions and companies look"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1904.496,"endTime":1908.67,"body":"at this that ceiling of ambition"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1904.496,"endTime":1908.67,"body":"that comes from the national level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1909.17,"endTime":1914.185,"body":"So we need governments all over the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1909.17,"endTime":1914.185,"body":"world especially, you know, key G20"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1914.2350000000001,"endTime":1920.145,"body":"nations to set ambitious targets or what"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1914.2350000000001,"endTime":1920.145,"body":"sometimes we call stretch goals because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1920.145,"endTime":1926.755,"body":"we know that the growth in clean energy"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1920.145,"endTime":1926.755,"body":"we, we know that these clean energy"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1926.755,"endTime":1932.295,"body":"innovations increasing rapidly up the S"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1926.755,"endTime":1932.295,"body":"curve, so we need to bake in some of the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1932.295,"endTime":1936.4850000000001,"body":"projections from the likes of the IEA"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1932.295,"endTime":1936.4850000000001,"body":"and Bloomberg New Energy Finance into"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1936.4850000000001,"endTime":1941.828,"body":"these national targets for 2035 through"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1936.4850000000001,"endTime":1941.828,"body":"these submissions that all countries"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1941.948,"endTime":1944.958,"body":"have promised to do by COP30 next year."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1945.588,"endTime":1949.203,"body":"And that will then hopefully filter"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1945.588,"endTime":1949.203,"body":"down to the sub national level."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1949.2730000000001,"endTime":1952.133,"body":"And the company level because"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1949.2730000000001,"endTime":1952.133,"body":"they will see that that ambition,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1952.163,"endTime":1953.073,"body":"that direction of travel."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1953.073,"endTime":1957.145,"body":"We  already seeing a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1953.073,"endTime":1957.145,"body":"proliferation of both policy."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1957.145,"endTime":1960.781,"body":"So the enabling environment, but"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1957.145,"endTime":1960.781,"body":"also regulation, around getting"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1960.781,"endTime":1965.438,"body":"these entities to align with these"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1960.781,"endTime":1965.438,"body":"national net zero targets and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1965.438,"endTime":1966.528,"body":"especially these interim targets."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1966.818,"endTime":1967.678,"body":"So we need more of that."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1967.678,"endTime":1968.698,"body":"We need these stretch goals."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1968.698,"endTime":1970.178,"body":"We need nations to be ambitious."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1970.588,"endTime":1973.048,"body":"And we need some domino"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1970.588,"endTime":1973.048,"body":"countries to lead the way."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1973.828,"endTime":1978.343,"body":"For listeners who might"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1973.828,"endTime":1978.343,"body":"feel overwhelmed by the scale of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1978.343,"endTime":1982.2830000000001,"body":"climate challenge, you know, what's an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1978.343,"endTime":1982.2830000000001,"body":"action or actions they can take to help"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1982.7730000000001,"endTime":1986.413,"body":"ensure that the net zero targets don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1982.7730000000001,"endTime":1986.413,"body":"just remain targets, but become reality."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1987.088,"endTime":1990.698,"body":"I touched on this earlier,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1987.088,"endTime":1990.698,"body":"but what I often say is that, if"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1990.748,"endTime":1994.288,"body":"an individual action doesn't have"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1990.748,"endTime":1994.288,"body":"political implications or political"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1994.288,"endTime":1998.678,"body":"consequences, it's often better for"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1994.288,"endTime":1998.678,"body":"your conscience than it is for climate."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":1999.218,"endTime":2000.858,"body":"And so I really do stick by that."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2001.278,"endTime":2004.758,"body":"So, the most political thing"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2001.278,"endTime":2004.758,"body":"that any individual can do is"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2004.758,"endTime":2006.258,"body":"to talk about climate change."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2006.9180000000001,"endTime":2010.058,"body":"You know, I'm stealing and plagiarising"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2006.9180000000001,"endTime":2010.058,"body":"from Catherine Hayhoe you know, probably"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2010.108,"endTime":2014.108,"body":"the best climate change communicator in"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2010.108,"endTime":2014.108,"body":"the world, but it's, it's deeply true."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2014.578,"endTime":2017.188,"body":"To talk about climate change, you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2014.578,"endTime":2017.188,"body":"actually first have to understand it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2018.098,"endTime":2021.478,"body":"You know, not in, not in its full"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2018.098,"endTime":2021.478,"body":"glory, but at least at a minimum."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2021.798,"endTime":2023.6680000000001,"body":"So one of the most political"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2021.798,"endTime":2023.6680000000001,"body":"things you can do is actually"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2023.6680000000001,"endTime":2026.758,"body":"learn about climate change so"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2023.6680000000001,"endTime":2026.758,"body":"that you can then speak about it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2027.208,"endTime":2029.068,"body":"But yes, you can do also do other things."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2029.1380000000001,"endTime":2032.608,"body":"You can join an organization, you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2029.1380000000001,"endTime":2032.608,"body":"know, that's deeply political."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2032.768,"endTime":2036.048,"body":"You can move careers,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2032.768,"endTime":2036.048,"body":"again, deeply political."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2036.3680000000002,"endTime":2040.608,"body":"You can go into politics which is very"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2036.3680000000002,"endTime":2040.608,"body":"obviously the most political thing."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2040.928,"endTime":2042.998,"body":"But yeah, for me, it starts"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2040.928,"endTime":2042.998,"body":"around talking about it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2043.288,"endTime":2047.078,"body":"And, you know, that's, that's one of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2043.288,"endTime":2047.078,"body":"the most encouraging things that I think"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2047.178,"endTime":2051.5679999999998,"body":"looking back over the last five, 10 years"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2047.178,"endTime":2051.5679999999998,"body":"is how many people are talking about this."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2051.638,"endTime":2057.5679999999998,"body":"And yes, we have 8 to 10% of folks out"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2051.638,"endTime":2057.5679999999998,"body":"there that still dismiss climate change,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2057.788,"endTime":2064.098,"body":"completely, but we know that about"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2057.788,"endTime":2064.098,"body":"90% of the population are malleable"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2064.118,"endTime":2068.238,"body":"in terms of shifting their positions"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2064.118,"endTime":2068.238,"body":"on how urgent climate change is."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2068.748,"endTime":2071.288,"body":"And so, you know, we could"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2068.748,"endTime":2071.288,"body":"speak if we talk about climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2071.288,"endTime":2072.848,"body":"change, we can speak to that 90%."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2073.098,"endTime":2078.558,"body":"And we can help create this"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2073.098,"endTime":2078.558,"body":"movement to try and achieve these"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2078.558,"endTime":2079.898,"body":"net zero targets more quickly."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2080.338,"endTime":2082.418,"body":"So, yeah, so that would, that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2080.338,"endTime":2082.418,"body":"would be what I would say."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2083.523,"endTime":2084.313,"body":"Make sure it's political."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2085.203,"endTime":2087.793,"body":"Very good, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2085.203,"endTime":2087.793,"body":"vote, make sure to prioritize"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2087.793,"endTime":2089.333,"body":"climate in who you're voting for."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2090.893,"endTime":2093.913,"body":"Exactly, and not just voting,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2090.893,"endTime":2093.913,"body":"but voting with your wallet, of course."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2093.9230000000002,"endTime":2096.753,"body":"So yeah, no, last thing I would"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2093.9230000000002,"endTime":2096.753,"body":"say is I've got a, I've got a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2096.753,"endTime":2100.083,"body":"graphic that I haven't yet published"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2096.753,"endTime":2100.083,"body":"yet, but it's looking at your,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2100.253,"endTime":2101.443,"body":"looking at your climate shadow."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2102.216,"endTime":2105.026,"body":"We talked about the spheres of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2102.216,"endTime":2105.026,"body":"influence, but how can you increase"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2105.026,"endTime":2107.5460000000003,"body":"your climate shadow to make an impact."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2107.826,"endTime":2111.216,"body":"Moving from your carbon footprint or"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2107.826,"endTime":2111.216,"body":"your climate footprint to actually your"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2111.216,"endTime":2114.466,"body":"climate shadow and the, all the things we"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2111.216,"endTime":2114.466,"body":"just discussed there fit in the shadow."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2115.556,"endTime":2116.016,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2116.0860000000002,"endTime":2116.2960000000003,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2116.2960000000003,"endTime":2118.166,"body":"You must shoot me a link to that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2116.2960000000003,"endTime":2118.166,"body":"when you, when it goes live."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2119.746,"endTime":2120.866,"body":"Left field question, John."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2122.036,"endTime":2130.616,"body":"If you could have any celebrity, fictional"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2122.036,"endTime":2130.616,"body":"character, actual character alive or dead"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2130.846,"endTime":2136.166,"body":"to represent the ambitions of the Net"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2130.846,"endTime":2136.166,"body":"Zero Tracker, who would they be and why?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2139.176,"endTime":2139.636,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2140.666,"endTime":2141.206,"body":"I Think,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2143.256,"endTime":2146.156,"body":"I think it would be, can I go two people?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2146.976,"endTime":2147.326,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2147.826,"endTime":2150.426,"body":"And I'm going to go two men,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2147.826,"endTime":2150.426,"body":"which is which is a bit controversial,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2150.426,"endTime":2152.176,"body":"but I'm going to go with Albert Einstein."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2152.676,"endTime":2155.911,"body":"Number one, because he said, if you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2152.676,"endTime":2155.911,"body":"can't explain it simply, you don't"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2155.9410000000003,"endTime":2160.053,"body":"understand a lot of it's a, he not"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2155.9410000000003,"endTime":2160.053,"body":"only, he not only made, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2160.1330000000003,"endTime":2164.256,"body":"pushed the body of human knowledge"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2160.1330000000003,"endTime":2164.256,"body":"into the, into into the strat, into the"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2164.256,"endTime":2166.556,"body":"stratosphere but he also said it as it is."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2166.646,"endTime":2168.726,"body":"If you connot say it simply, you"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2166.646,"endTime":2168.726,"body":"don't understand it well enough."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2168.726,"endTime":2171.436,"body":"So that's hugely important for us"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2168.726,"endTime":2171.436,"body":"at the Net Zero Tracker and for"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2171.446,"endTime":2174.426,"body":"anyone involved in Net Zero you know,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2171.446,"endTime":2174.426,"body":"we're all afflicted by the curse of"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2174.436,"endTime":2178.456,"body":"knowledge so we should try our very,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2174.436,"endTime":2178.456,"body":"very best to explain stuff simply."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2178.849,"endTime":2181.849,"body":"The second person I would say"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2178.849,"endTime":2181.849,"body":"would be Stephen Schneider."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2182.319,"endTime":2188.139,"body":"So the late US climate scientist who"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2182.319,"endTime":2188.139,"body":"said that when it comes to climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2188.139,"endTime":2192.639,"body":"change, the two least likely outcomes"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2188.139,"endTime":2192.639,"body":"that it's good for us and that it's"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2192.639,"endTime":2193.679,"body":"going to be the end of the world."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2194.209,"endTime":2199.811,"body":"And so, for me, that's a hugely important"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2194.209,"endTime":2199.811,"body":"message, and probably quite a nice one to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2199.811,"endTime":2204.771,"body":"finish on, Tom, because, you know, climate"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2199.811,"endTime":2204.771,"body":"change isn't going to be existential in"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2204.771,"endTime":2207.871,"body":"terms of the end of human civilization,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2204.771,"endTime":2207.871,"body":"and it's certainly not going to be good"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2207.871,"endTime":2212.591,"body":"for us, but there are a lot there are a"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2207.871,"endTime":2212.591,"body":"multitude of outcomes in between that and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2212.591,"endTime":2219.061,"body":"we need to make sure that we that push"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2212.591,"endTime":2219.061,"body":"the best possible outcome we can get to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2219.814,"endTime":2222.349,"body":"John, we're coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2219.814,"endTime":2222.349,"body":"towards the end of the podcast now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2222.349,"endTime":2227.419,"body":"Is there any question I did not ask that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2222.349,"endTime":2227.419,"body":"you wish I had or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.419,"endTime":2230.369,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2227.419,"endTime":2230.369,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2232.689,"endTime":2233.9990000000003,"body":"I'm going to"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2232.689,"endTime":2233.9990000000003,"body":"say I don't think so."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2234.029,"endTime":2237.209,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I, I think."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2237.564,"endTime":2242.334,"body":"Yeah, I think the, the point around,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2237.564,"endTime":2242.334,"body":"I mean, what I can do is I can point"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2242.474,"endTime":2246.734,"body":"people to some of my infographics that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2242.474,"endTime":2246.734,"body":"try and explain climate policy and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2246.734,"endTime":2251.504,"body":"science in as simple terms as possible,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2246.734,"endTime":2251.504,"body":"but try not to go too simple so that"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2251.504,"endTime":2252.734,"body":"folks can actually talk about it."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2252.804,"endTime":2257.234,"body":"So so, and if, if folks would like to know"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2252.804,"endTime":2257.234,"body":"where they are, I'm happy to give those."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2257.429,"endTime":2258.409,"body":"Links over to you, Tom."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2258.5190000000002,"endTime":2261.719,"body":"Energy and Climate Intelligence"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2258.5190000000002,"endTime":2261.719,"body":"Unit hosts a section on, on, on"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2261.859,"endTime":2263.709,"body":"infographics, explaining complex issues."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2264.109,"endTime":2266.909,"body":"The Net Zero Tracker is, is, has"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2264.109,"endTime":2266.909,"body":"also got a few infographics, so."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2268.154,"endTime":2268.434,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2268.434,"endTime":2268.6240000000003,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2269.054,"endTime":2270.264,"body":"That's always my final question."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2270.264,"endTime":2272.8940000000002,"body":"If people would like to know more,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2270.264,"endTime":2272.8940000000002,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.8940000000002,"endTime":2277.1040000000003,"body":"So I guess it's, is it ECIU,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2272.8940000000002,"endTime":2277.1040000000003,"body":"or you clarify for me where"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2277.7690000000002,"endTime":2280.669,"body":"Sure, I think ECIU and"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2277.7690000000002,"endTime":2280.669,"body":"the Net Zero Tracker I've got other"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2280.669,"endTime":2283.409,"body":"projects on the, on the sideline,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2280.669,"endTime":2283.409,"body":"but those, those two are, those"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2283.409,"endTime":2284.429,"body":"two are the most notable, for sure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2284.794,"endTime":2285.594,"body":"shoot me those links."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2285.594,"endTime":2288.274,"body":"I'll put them in the show notes and that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2285.594,"endTime":2288.274,"body":"way everyone will have access to them."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2289.204,"endTime":2290.371,"body":"Thanks very"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2289.204,"endTime":2290.371,"body":"much, Tom, appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2290.986,"endTime":2291.226,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.246,"endTime":2291.686,"body":"No, thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2291.946,"endTime":2292.366,"body":"Thanks to you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2292.386,"endTime":2293.886,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2292.386,"endTime":2293.886,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2293.886,"endTime":2294.696,"body":"It's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2296.281,"endTime":2299.781,"body":"Yeah, thank you so much yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2296.281,"endTime":2299.781,"body":"and it'll be great to be on, in, in future"},{"speaker":"John Lang","startTime":2299.781,"endTime":2301.121,"body":"when we when we finally hit Net Zero."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2302.247,"endTime":2304.117,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2302.247,"endTime":2304.117,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2304.837,"endTime":2305.947,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2306.8070000000002,"endTime":2310.957,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2306.8070000000002,"endTime":2310.957,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2310.967,"endTime":2314.877,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2315.127,"endTime":2318.607,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2319.177,"endTime":2322.917,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2319.177,"endTime":2322.917,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2322.937,"endTime":2327.417,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2322.937,"endTime":2327.417,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2328.047,"endTime":2331.007,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2328.047,"endTime":2331.007,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2331.207,"endTime":2333.737,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2331.207,"endTime":2333.737,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2334.827,"endTime":2335.277,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2335.947,"endTime":2336.867,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}