{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":3.596,"endTime":6.656,"body":"Whether you care about"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":3.596,"endTime":6.656,"body":"the planet as I'm sure most, if not"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":6.656,"endTime":10.956,"body":"all your listeners do, animal welfare,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":6.656,"endTime":10.956,"body":"or human health, or all these things,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":11.746,"endTime":14.456,"body":"thinking about how you can make a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":11.746,"endTime":14.456,"body":"difference to this issue is important"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":14.826,"endTime":18.256,"body":"for all of these reasons and factory"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":14.826,"endTime":18.256,"body":"farming is actually this, this one issue"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":18.256,"endTime":21.096,"body":"that kind of intersects with all these"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":18.256,"endTime":21.096,"body":"different things that we care about."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":21.785,"endTime":23.855,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":21.785,"endTime":23.855,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":23.865,"endTime":25.365,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.685,"endTime":29.415,"body":"This is the Climate Confident"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.685,"endTime":29.415,"body":"podcast, the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.555,"endTime":33.325,"body":"showcasing best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":29.555,"endTime":33.325,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.755,"endTime":35.695,"body":"And I'm your host, Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.855,"endTime":39.615,"body":"Don't forget to click follow on this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.855,"endTime":39.615,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of choice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.775,"endTime":42.135,"body":"to be sure you don't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.059,"endTime":43.559,"body":"Hi everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.559,"endTime":46.759,"body":"Welcome to episode 206 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":43.559,"endTime":46.759,"body":"Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":47.199,"endTime":48.609,"body":"My name is Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.629,"endTime":51.419,"body":"And before we kick off today's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.629,"endTime":51.419,"body":"show, I want to take a moment to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.419,"endTime":55.699,"body":"express my gratitude to all of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":51.419,"endTime":55.699,"body":"this podcast's amazing supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.129,"endTime":59.959,"body":"Your support has been instrumental in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":56.129,"endTime":59.959,"body":"keeping this podcast going, and I'm really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.959,"endTime":61.779,"body":"grateful for each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":62.614,"endTime":65.834,"body":"If you're not already a supporter, I'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":62.614,"endTime":65.834,"body":"like to encourage you to consider joining"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.834,"endTime":68.964,"body":"our community of like minded individuals"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.834,"endTime":68.964,"body":"who are passionate about climate."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.904,"endTime":73.364,"body":"Supporting the podcast is easy and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.904,"endTime":73.364,"body":"affordable, with options starting as low"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.364,"endTime":77.614,"body":"as just three euros or dollars a month,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.364,"endTime":77.614,"body":"less than the cost of a cup of coffee, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.624,"endTime":81.234,"body":"your support will make a huge difference"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.624,"endTime":81.234,"body":"in keeping this show going strong."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.089,"endTime":85.549,"body":"To become a supporter, you simply click"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.089,"endTime":85.549,"body":"on the support link in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":85.549,"endTime":89.269,"body":"of this or any episode or visit tinyurl."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":89.279,"endTime":91.429,"body":"com slash climate pod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.599,"endTime":96.999,"body":"Now, in today's episode, I'll be talking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.599,"endTime":96.999,"body":"to Thom Norman from FarmKind and in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.009,"endTime":102.873,"body":"upcoming episodes, my guests will include"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.009,"endTime":102.873,"body":"Jarand Rystad, who's CEO of Rystad Energy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.943,"endTime":104.733,"body":"We'll be talking about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.943,"endTime":104.733,"body":"the energy transition."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.403,"endTime":108.053,"body":"Professor Anneliese"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":105.403,"endTime":108.053,"body":"Bracco from Georgia Tech."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":108.083,"endTime":109.583,"body":"We'll be talking about marine life."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":110.358,"endTime":114.834,"body":"Ryan Schermerhorn, who's an IP lawyer, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":110.358,"endTime":114.834,"body":"we'll be talking about climate patents."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":115.314,"endTime":119.994,"body":"And Dr. Gemma Green, co founder and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":115.314,"endTime":119.994,"body":"exec chair of PowerLedger, where we'll"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":120.004,"endTime":121.854,"body":"be talking about energy autonomy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":122.674,"endTime":123.824,"body":"Back to today's episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.824,"endTime":125.814,"body":"And as I said, I'm talking today to Thom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":126.304,"endTime":127.914,"body":"Thom, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.934,"endTime":129.764,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":130.327,"endTime":133.137,"body":"Yeah, sure hi,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":130.327,"endTime":133.137,"body":"I'm Thom, Thom Norman, and I"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":133.137,"endTime":135.337,"body":"am the co founder of FarmKind."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":135.727,"endTime":139.417,"body":"We are an organisation focused on helping"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":135.727,"endTime":139.417,"body":"people to impact on factory farming,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":139.68,"endTime":144.79,"body":"and we do this by finding amazing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":139.68,"endTime":144.79,"body":"charities that are doing incredible"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":144.79,"endTime":147.62,"body":"work in this space, and then helping"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":144.79,"endTime":147.62,"body":"people to support those charities."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.662,"endTime":153.522,"body":"So tell me, Thom,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":148.662,"endTime":153.522,"body":"what The pathway to this,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":153.542,"endTime":155.232,"body":"because it's not an obvious one."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":155.622,"endTime":157.542,"body":"What were you doing before this?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.562,"endTime":162.312,"body":"And what was your kind of Damascene moment"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":157.562,"endTime":162.312,"body":"that made you decide to start FarmKind?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":163.745,"endTime":165.275,"body":"Yeah, I was doing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":163.745,"endTime":165.275,"body":"something quite different before this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":165.305,"endTime":167.495,"body":"I, used to work as a lawyer."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":167.565,"endTime":171.785,"body":"I was a lawyer for the UK government"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":167.565,"endTime":171.785,"body":"where I was on a number of issues"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":171.835,"endTime":175.505,"body":"but sort of, most prominently on"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":171.835,"endTime":175.505,"body":"actually nuclear energy policy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":176.665,"endTime":177.185,"body":"Obviously."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":178.025,"endTime":180.615,"body":"Yes, obviously, exactly"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":178.025,"endTime":180.615,"body":"which is a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":180.705,"endTime":182.365,"body":"sort of area of government."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":182.365,"endTime":185.665,"body":"The UK was trying to do some kind"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":182.365,"endTime":185.665,"body":"of interesting, exciting things."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":185.705,"endTime":189.745,"body":"So that was very, fascinating to work on,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":185.705,"endTime":189.745,"body":"but completely different to what I do now."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":190.055,"endTime":193.945,"body":"So what I, what I ended up doing was I"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":190.055,"endTime":193.945,"body":"had kind of been interested in the impacts"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":193.945,"endTime":198.305,"body":"of animal agriculture from a perspective"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":193.945,"endTime":198.305,"body":"of the climate, but also from perspective"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":198.415,"endTime":201.335,"body":"of animal welfare for some time."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":201.845,"endTime":206.993,"body":"And it turns out that like, the really big"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":201.845,"endTime":206.993,"body":"issue in this space in general is funding."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":207.053,"endTime":208.443,"body":"There's a lot of organisations out there."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":208.953,"endTime":211.153,"body":"Some of them are doing really"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":208.953,"endTime":211.153,"body":"great work and making a really"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":211.153,"endTime":212.393,"body":"big difference on this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":212.823,"endTime":215.443,"body":"But almost all of them are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":212.823,"endTime":215.443,"body":"extremely funding constrained."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":215.993,"endTime":218.153,"body":"So we're thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":215.993,"endTime":218.153,"body":"can I do to have some more of an"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":218.153,"endTime":220.393,"body":"impact through my career and what"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":218.153,"endTime":220.393,"body":"I'm, what I'm doing with my life."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":220.813,"endTime":224.603,"body":"And this seemed like a really important"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":220.813,"endTime":224.603,"body":"issue to work on because if you care"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":224.603,"endTime":227.787,"body":"about the issue of factory farming and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":224.603,"endTime":227.787,"body":"animal agriculture, or the climate or"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":227.877,"endTime":231.227,"body":"animal welfare, You can start a new"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":227.877,"endTime":231.227,"body":"charity, but then you're it's like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":231.227,"endTime":234.337,"body":"you're competing with everybody else"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":231.227,"endTime":234.337,"body":"for this small amount of funding, right?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":234.627,"endTime":238.477,"body":"Whereas if you can try and increase the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":234.627,"endTime":238.477,"body":"funding for great organisations that are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":238.487,"endTime":240.907,"body":"doing good work then everybody benefits."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":241.027,"endTime":243.987,"body":"So that's why I was particularly"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":241.027,"endTime":243.987,"body":"excited in this work."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":244.537,"endTime":247.747,"body":"I went through a kind of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":244.537,"endTime":247.747,"body":"incubation program for charity."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":247.777,"endTime":251.747,"body":"So a bit of sort of like a Y Combinator"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":247.777,"endTime":251.747,"body":"but for specifically for charities"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":252.047,"endTime":255.697,"body":"and that's where I found my co"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":252.047,"endTime":255.697,"body":"founder and we launched FarmKind."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":256.018,"endTime":261.948,"body":"And give me the big picture"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":256.018,"endTime":261.948,"body":"view of what it is FarmKind does."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":261.958,"endTime":266.238,"body":"So it's not that you're a charity"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":261.958,"endTime":266.238,"body":"per se, it's rather that you're an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":266.638,"endTime":272.028,"body":"aggregator of charities, and then"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":266.638,"endTime":272.028,"body":"you dispense to charities that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":272.028,"endTime":276.198,"body":"you think are the more efficient."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":276.903,"endTime":280.763,"body":"More powerful, probably the wrong word."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":281.143,"endTime":282.343,"body":"Better at what they do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":282.533,"endTime":282.623,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":283.723,"endTime":283.843,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":283.843,"endTime":286.813,"body":"My vocabulary is a bit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":283.843,"endTime":286.813,"body":"stunted this morning, apparently, but"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":288.313,"endTime":290.433,"body":"Well, it's yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":288.313,"endTime":290.433,"body":"it is an interesting question, right?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":290.433,"endTime":294.023,"body":"Because it's just saying,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":290.433,"endTime":294.023,"body":"oh, this is a good charity."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":294.023,"endTime":295.083,"body":"It's actually kind of complicated."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":295.083,"endTime":297.298,"body":"And like, there are different"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":295.083,"endTime":297.298,"body":"ways of charities being good in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":297.298,"endTime":298.348,"body":"different ways in different things."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":298.378,"endTime":301.828,"body":"So yeah, it's kind of is a little"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":298.378,"endTime":301.828,"body":"bit hard to sum up, but what we do"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":301.878,"endTime":303.058,"body":"yes, you're, you're broadly right."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":303.108,"endTime":304.968,"body":"So we are, we are a nonprofit ourselves."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":305.285,"endTime":306.295,"body":"We don't seek to make money."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":306.335,"endTime":311.375,"body":"We are funded by by grants from like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":306.335,"endTime":311.375,"body":"large foundations and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":312.3,"endTime":316.22,"body":"So all the money that kind of goes people"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":312.3,"endTime":316.22,"body":"donate through us to charities, 100"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":316.22,"endTime":318.91,"body":"percent of that money goes on to the, to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":316.22,"endTime":318.91,"body":"the charities that they're supporting."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":318.91,"endTime":320.85,"body":"We don't take any of that,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":318.91,"endTime":320.85,"body":"but yeah, it's right."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":320.9,"endTime":323.43,"body":"What we do is we go out"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":320.9,"endTime":323.43,"body":"and we work with experts."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":323.44,"endTime":325.9,"body":"So we work with grant"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":323.44,"endTime":325.9,"body":"makers at major foundations."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":326.21,"endTime":330.23,"body":"We work with an organisation called Animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":326.21,"endTime":330.23,"body":"Charity Evaluators that are specialists"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":330.23,"endTime":332.986,"body":"in evaluating charities in animal spaces."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":332.986,"endTime":336.456,"body":"So in factory farming, but also"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":332.986,"endTime":336.456,"body":"they work on things like animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":336.456,"endTime":339.145,"body":"testing and wild animals and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":336.456,"endTime":339.145,"body":"these   all of that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":339.535,"endTime":340.785,"body":"Charities to do with animals."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":341.335,"endTime":345.835,"body":"And we work with, with these experts to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":341.335,"endTime":345.835,"body":"identify currently six charities that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":345.835,"endTime":348.105,"body":"we think are particularly effective."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":348.165,"endTime":351.465,"body":"So they use your money, especially"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":348.165,"endTime":351.465,"body":"well, if you donate through them,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":351.815,"endTime":356.755,"body":"your each dollar is buying a lot"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":351.815,"endTime":356.755,"body":"of kind of impact in the world."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":356.915,"endTime":359.518,"body":"And that's kind of, that's the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":356.915,"endTime":359.518,"body":"main thing that we focus on."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":359.518,"endTime":364.265,"body":"And we have selected these charities"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":359.518,"endTime":364.265,"body":"to cover all the sort of major"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":364.325,"endTime":366.765,"body":"sort of groups of animals that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":364.325,"endTime":366.765,"body":"are, are in factory farming."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":366.765,"endTime":366.785,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":367.12,"endTime":371.41,"body":"chickens and pigs and cows"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":367.12,"endTime":371.41,"body":"and fish and crustaceans."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":372.01,"endTime":375.82,"body":"And then also to be tackling this problem"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":372.01,"endTime":375.82,"body":"from multiple different directions."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":375.83,"endTime":380.59,"body":"So it might be that the ultimate solution"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":375.83,"endTime":380.59,"body":"to factory farming is for example,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":380.61,"endTime":383.95,"body":"moving to kind of things like cultivated"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":380.61,"endTime":383.95,"body":"meat and new technologies for different"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":384.0,"endTime":385.83,"body":"kinds of more sustainable foods."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":386.08,"endTime":389.39,"body":"Or it might be that what we need to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":386.08,"endTime":389.39,"body":"do is work on improving practices"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":389.39,"endTime":390.62,"body":"in factory farms right now."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":390.62,"endTime":393.705,"body":"And sort of dealing with some of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":390.62,"endTime":393.705,"body":"the externalities and the kind"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":393.705,"endTime":398.065,"body":"of sustainability issues in farms"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":393.705,"endTime":398.065,"body":"right now and so because there's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":398.065,"endTime":400.545,"body":"some kind of uncertainty about"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":398.065,"endTime":400.545,"body":"exactly what's going to work."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":400.545,"endTime":403.255,"body":"It might be one of these things or a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":400.545,"endTime":403.255,"body":"combination of these things We make"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":403.255,"endTime":406.515,"body":"sure that we're not just kind of going"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":403.255,"endTime":406.515,"body":"putting all our eggs in one basket."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":406.515,"endTime":409.485,"body":"We pick charities that are effective"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":406.515,"endTime":409.485,"body":"but are working kind of different"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":409.485,"endTime":412.485,"body":"theories of change and different"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":409.485,"endTime":412.485,"body":"approaches to this problem."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":412.975,"endTime":417.275,"body":"And then, yeah, what we do is we"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":412.975,"endTime":417.275,"body":"basically, we go out to sort of the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":417.275,"endTime":420.215,"body":"public and through things like this"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":417.275,"endTime":420.215,"body":"podcast and other things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":420.255,"endTime":423.105,"body":"And we ask people like, these are great"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":420.255,"endTime":423.105,"body":"charts that If you care about this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":423.335,"endTime":425.065,"body":"We'll try and persuade you"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":423.335,"endTime":425.065,"body":"that that's a good idea."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":425.345,"endTime":428.671,"body":"These are, these are really good charities"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":425.345,"endTime":428.671,"body":"that will, spend your money wisely."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":428.871,"endTime":431.931,"body":"And you can see through us"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":428.871,"endTime":431.931,"body":"quite directly, like this is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":431.931,"endTime":433.891,"body":"exactly the impact of donation."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":434.121,"endTime":435.581,"body":"This is how many animals you can help."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":435.581,"endTime":439.341,"body":"This is how much carbon you're"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":435.581,"endTime":439.341,"body":"effectively offsetting if you like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":439.551,"endTime":440.771,"body":"and we can report that to you."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":440.771,"endTime":443.381,"body":"So you can really see what"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":440.771,"endTime":443.381,"body":"the value of your donation is."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":444.572,"endTime":450.212,"body":"And what has surprised"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":444.572,"endTime":450.212,"body":"you most on your journey from working"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":450.222,"endTime":455.942,"body":"for government on nuclear technologies"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":450.222,"endTime":455.942,"body":"through to starting up FarmKind and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":455.952,"endTime":458.632,"body":"working with animals and animal charities?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":459.587,"endTime":460.187,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":460.207,"endTime":464.81,"body":"So it is an amazingly"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":460.207,"endTime":464.81,"body":"different thing to do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":464.82,"endTime":466.53,"body":"And I think, it is a real challenge."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":466.53,"endTime":472.72,"body":"I think the, biggest thing I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":466.53,"endTime":472.72,"body":"is just how complicated it is to like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":473.31,"endTime":476.48,"body":"work in this kind of environment of,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":473.31,"endTime":476.48,"body":"trying to get a message out there."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":476.633,"endTime":480.373,"body":"The world of like, before I was sitting"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":476.633,"endTime":480.373,"body":"very comfortably sitting in my, in my"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":480.373,"endTime":484.533,"body":"office, like, you know, giving my advice"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":480.373,"endTime":484.533,"body":"to clients and not having to deal with"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":484.563,"endTime":488.133,"body":"kind of the wider world and how do"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":484.563,"endTime":488.133,"body":"you communicate to the general public"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":488.143,"endTime":491.833,"body":"about this or that, the other, I can"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":488.143,"endTime":491.833,"body":"write in my you know, horrible legalese"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":491.833,"endTime":493.227,"body":"and feel very comfortable with that."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":493.447,"endTime":496.837,"body":"And like, how do you actually go"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":493.447,"endTime":496.837,"body":"out and talk to people about some"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":496.837,"endTime":498.157,"body":"issues that can be quite complicated?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":498.157,"endTime":500.527,"body":"And there's, there is definitely a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":498.157,"endTime":500.527,"body":"lot of nuance in some of these things."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":500.817,"endTime":504.187,"body":"How do you do that in a way that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":500.817,"endTime":504.187,"body":"people are going to find engaging?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":504.427,"endTime":505.467,"body":"That they're going to understand?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":505.882,"endTime":512.032,"body":"I think we all, we all interact"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":505.882,"endTime":512.032,"body":"with farming because we all,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":512.132,"endTime":513.142,"body":"you know, we all eat right."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":513.142,"endTime":516.722,"body":"And we all buy products that come from"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":513.142,"endTime":516.722,"body":"some kind of, from the food system more"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":516.732,"endTime":521.882,"body":"broadly, but that I think creates a lot"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":516.732,"endTime":521.882,"body":"of resistance for people because they"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":521.882,"endTime":524.952,"body":"think like, if you're going to care about"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":521.882,"endTime":524.952,"body":"some of the problems in the food system,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":524.952,"endTime":527.002,"body":"That means I have to change my diet."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":527.042,"endTime":530.032,"body":"I have to do, you know, I have to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":527.042,"endTime":530.032,"body":"maybe give up the foods that I like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":530.102,"endTime":531.492,"body":"most and these sorts of things."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":531.852,"endTime":535.202,"body":"And that creates a lot of resistance"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":531.852,"endTime":535.202,"body":"for people understandably, I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":535.472,"endTime":536.592,"body":"and they don't kind of want to engage."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":536.622,"endTime":540.722,"body":"Also, we have like generally very positive"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":536.622,"endTime":540.722,"body":"ideas about what it means to be a farmer."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":540.732,"endTime":544.062,"body":"Like we have this old McDonald's kind of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":540.732,"endTime":544.062,"body":"ideas that are sort of floating around."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":545.612,"endTime":550.102,"body":"And so actually how you kind of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":545.612,"endTime":550.102,"body":"communicate with people sensitively"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":550.132,"endTime":554.892,"body":"and in a way that they are going to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":550.132,"endTime":554.892,"body":"want to engage with not feel judged is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":554.892,"endTime":557.312,"body":"quite, quite difficult because there"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":554.892,"endTime":557.312,"body":"are a lot of barriers, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":557.312,"endTime":561.132,"body":"who do it very badly and do kind of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":557.312,"endTime":561.132,"body":"come in with like these sort of like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":561.272,"endTime":562.692,"body":"quite judgmental messages sometimes."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":562.692,"endTime":565.932,"body":"And so, I think understandably people"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":562.692,"endTime":565.932,"body":"are very cautious when we're trying"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":565.932,"endTime":567.072,"body":"to talk to them about this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":568.052,"endTime":571.562,"body":"And how would you do that in a way"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":568.052,"endTime":571.562,"body":"that's respectful and accurate, but"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":571.562,"endTime":575.692,"body":"also compassionate and and engaging"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":571.562,"endTime":575.692,"body":"is is quite hard, but we're hopefully"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":575.762,"endTime":577.072,"body":"getting better at that over time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":577.524,"endTime":577.914,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":578.334,"endTime":580.924,"body":"And you mentioned you're a nonprofit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":578.334,"endTime":580.924,"body":"and that a hundred percent of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":580.924,"endTime":583.244,"body":"donations go to the charities."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":583.254,"endTime":585.774,"body":"So where do you get your money from?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":587.089,"endTime":591.019,"body":"Yeah, so we are grant"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":587.089,"endTime":591.019,"body":"funded so we are funded by a number of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":591.079,"endTime":595.439,"body":"large foundations and also some high"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":591.079,"endTime":595.439,"body":"net worth individuals who, who are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":595.439,"endTime":598.649,"body":"excited in the work by the work we're"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":595.439,"endTime":598.649,"body":"doing and have decided to fund us."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":598.759,"endTime":602.239,"body":"On our website, we have a transparency"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":598.759,"endTime":602.239,"body":"section, which actually lists precisely"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":602.239,"endTime":605.739,"body":"what all these, all these funds"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":602.239,"endTime":605.739,"body":"are so people can go and see that."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":605.789,"endTime":606.719,"body":"But but that's essentially it."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":606.719,"endTime":610.099,"body":"So we take money from large"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":606.719,"endTime":610.099,"body":"philanthropic foundations, and then"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":610.119,"endTime":611.679,"body":"we we use that for our funding."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":612.624,"endTime":612.954,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":612.954,"endTime":615.534,"body":"And obviously this is the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":612.954,"endTime":615.534,"body":"Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":615.534,"endTime":621.584,"body":"Let's dig into a little bit how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":615.534,"endTime":621.584,"body":"factory farming causes climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":621.584,"endTime":623.414,"body":"issues for people who may be unaware."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":623.424,"endTime":624.414,"body":"Walk us through that."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":625.829,"endTime":628.069,"body":"So I think the first thing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":625.829,"endTime":628.069,"body":"to say is usually when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":628.099,"endTime":632.109,"body":"climate and animals, we, we sort of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":628.099,"endTime":632.109,"body":"talk about animal agriculture rather"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":632.109,"endTime":633.449,"body":"than specifically, factory farming."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":633.489,"endTime":636.442,"body":"It's sometimes difficult to like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":633.489,"endTime":636.442,"body":"disaggregate these two things."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":636.852,"endTime":642.682,"body":"But in the USA about 90, 99% of the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":636.852,"endTime":642.682,"body":"animals raised are raised in what"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":642.682,"endTime":643.882,"body":"could be classed as factory farms."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":644.222,"endTime":647.302,"body":"In somewhere like the Europe and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":644.222,"endTime":647.302,"body":"the United Kingdom, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":647.302,"endTime":648.952,"body":"around in the range of 70 to 80%."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":649.452,"endTime":653.512,"body":"And increasingly large numbers"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":649.452,"endTime":653.512,"body":"in the developing world as well."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":653.662,"endTime":653.992,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":654.677,"endTime":659.267,"body":"Broadly speaking, we can, I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":654.677,"endTime":659.267,"body":"it's, it is fairly accurate to say"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":659.267,"endTime":662.457,"body":"that the majority of the impacts"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":659.267,"endTime":662.457,"body":"of animal agriculture more broadly"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":662.657,"endTime":664.527,"body":"are also true of factory farming."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":665.077,"endTime":669.841,"body":"So animal agriculture and factory"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":665.077,"endTime":669.841,"body":"farming is responsible for something"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":669.841,"endTime":675.046,"body":"in the region of 15 to 19% of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":669.841,"endTime":675.046,"body":"total greenhouse gas emissions."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":675.046,"endTime":678.434,"body":"This depends upon how"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":675.046,"endTime":678.434,"body":"you kind of calculate the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":678.434,"endTime":679.424,"body":"numbers and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":679.634,"endTime":682.774,"body":"A lot of those emissions but by"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":679.634,"endTime":682.774,"body":"no means all are from methane,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":682.824,"endTime":686.484,"body":"which is, as I'm sure many of your"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":682.824,"endTime":686.484,"body":"audience will know a very potent"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":686.494,"endTime":688.854,"body":"greenhouse gas, but one that breaks"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":686.494,"endTime":688.854,"body":"down in the atmosphere much quicker."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":689.224,"endTime":692.734,"body":"So if you are measuring on a 100"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":689.224,"endTime":692.734,"body":"year timescale, or twenty year"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":692.734,"endTime":694.894,"body":"timescale or something like this,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":692.734,"endTime":694.894,"body":"you'll get a very different."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":695.549,"endTime":700.749,"body":"calculation for like how impactful and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":695.549,"endTime":700.749,"body":"factory farming is on emissions, but"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":701.589,"endTime":704.799,"body":"we can say that it, we can say that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":701.589,"endTime":704.799,"body":"in total it's, in something in this"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":704.799,"endTime":711.069,"body":"range, that makes it more, a, larger"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":704.799,"endTime":711.069,"body":"contributor to climate change than, for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":711.069,"endTime":712.429,"body":"example, direct emissions from cars."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":714.049,"endTime":716.037,"body":"However you cut it, even if"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":714.049,"endTime":716.037,"body":"you take the low estimate."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":716.207,"endTime":720.277,"body":"It's a very significant portion of our"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":716.207,"endTime":720.277,"body":"total carbon emissions as a planet."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":720.917,"endTime":722.947,"body":"And where this comes from is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":720.917,"endTime":722.947,"body":"there's, there's the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":722.947,"endTime":724.707,"body":"famous cow farts and cow burps."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":724.707,"endTime":725.417,"body":"That's definitely part of it."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":725.417,"endTime":728.647,"body":"And that's, that's a source of,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":725.417,"endTime":728.647,"body":"of much of these kind of methane"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":728.647,"endTime":733.417,"body":"emissions, but you also have things"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":728.647,"endTime":733.417,"body":"like nitrous oxide from fertilizers."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":733.777,"endTime":735.067,"body":"This is a big emitter."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":735.407,"endTime":739.997,"body":"And then you also have a bunch of effects"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":735.407,"endTime":739.997,"body":"from the food that we feed to animals."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":740.067,"endTime":746.757,"body":"So, a major driver of deforestation is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":740.067,"endTime":746.757,"body":"both clearing land for grazing animals,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":746.757,"endTime":749.007,"body":"but also clearing land to grow crops."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":749.067,"endTime":752.607,"body":"And the vast majority of the crops"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":749.067,"endTime":752.607,"body":"that grow in the world are not fed"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":752.607,"endTime":754.347,"body":"to us, but we feed them to animals."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":754.957,"endTime":756.037,"body":"And then we eat the animals."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":756.037,"endTime":762.717,"body":"And so what this does is it means that we"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":756.037,"endTime":762.717,"body":"actually lose about 30% of the calories"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":762.737,"endTime":766.647,"body":"that we produce from cropland in this"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":762.737,"endTime":766.647,"body":"process of feeding crops to animals"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":766.687,"endTime":768.047,"body":"and then, and then eating the animals."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":768.297,"endTime":772.997,"body":"So our animals produce something"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":768.297,"endTime":772.997,"body":"in the region of 37% of our total"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":773.117,"endTime":776.487,"body":"protein and 17% of our total calories."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":776.987,"endTime":782.981,"body":"So they are relatively small amount of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":776.987,"endTime":782.981,"body":"our diet, but they are, they are using"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":783.031,"endTime":785.491,"body":"around about 80% global croplands."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":785.511,"endTime":790.271,"body":"So most of agriculture is going to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":785.511,"endTime":790.271,"body":"produce a fraction of, of what we eat."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":790.771,"endTime":795.021,"body":"And so we're having things like as I"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":790.771,"endTime":795.021,"body":"say, deforestation, water pollution and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":795.021,"endTime":799.941,"body":"water usage, land being used for much"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":795.021,"endTime":799.941,"body":"less carbon sequestering activities"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":799.961,"endTime":802.251,"body":"than it could be  if we turned it over"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":799.961,"endTime":802.251,"body":"to forest land and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":802.561,"endTime":806.531,"body":"And so all of these things"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":802.561,"endTime":806.531,"body":"contribute to factory farming's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":806.831,"endTime":808.997,"body":"impact on the climate more broadly."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":810.087,"endTime":814.227,"body":"And then you also have specific, this"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":810.087,"endTime":814.227,"body":"is specific then factory farming, local"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":814.287,"endTime":817.401,"body":"pollution issues as well, because what"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":814.287,"endTime":817.401,"body":"you're doing is you're concentrating"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":817.401,"endTime":821.491,"body":"a huge number of animals into a really"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":817.401,"endTime":821.491,"body":"small space, and all of the waste that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":821.491,"endTime":827.534,"body":"they produce so by some estimates,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":821.491,"endTime":827.534,"body":"animals in farms produce 13 times as much"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":827.634,"endTime":831.154,"body":"sewage as the entire American population."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":831.254,"endTime":835.734,"body":"So, the animals in America are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":831.254,"endTime":835.734,"body":"producing 13 times more sewage"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":835.734,"endTime":837.494,"body":"than all the humans in America."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":838.041,"endTime":841.121,"body":"And it's all concentrated"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":838.041,"endTime":841.121,"body":"into relatively small spaces."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":841.711,"endTime":845.261,"body":"There are some amazing photos, and art"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":841.711,"endTime":845.261,"body":"projects that they did where they, they"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":845.451,"endTime":849.541,"body":"took aerial photographs of factory farms"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":845.451,"endTime":849.541,"body":"and you can see these lagoons of the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":849.541,"endTime":853.551,"body":"waste and they, they are, I mean, they"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":849.541,"endTime":853.551,"body":"actually create quite beautiful images,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":853.551,"endTime":856.891,"body":"but they are in reality, when you think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":853.551,"endTime":856.891,"body":"about what it is, really horrific as"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":856.911,"endTime":861.891,"body":"these giant kind of lakes of sewage,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":856.911,"endTime":861.891,"body":"which are obviously having an incredibly"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":861.891,"endTime":866.481,"body":"large impact on the local environment"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":861.891,"endTime":866.481,"body":"in terms of the gases that are produced,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":866.801,"endTime":871.816,"body":"the the sewage leaks out into the, the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":866.801,"endTime":871.816,"body":"land around the land can't sort of deal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":871.816,"endTime":875.466,"body":"with this with that amount of sewage And"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":871.816,"endTime":875.466,"body":"so it's polluting the like environment"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":875.466,"endTime":877.356,"body":"and polluting waterways locally as well."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":877.566,"endTime":881.011,"body":"So you have these kind of macro"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":877.566,"endTime":881.011,"body":"level climate issues, but you also"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":881.021,"endTime":885.721,"body":"have these kind of very intense"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":881.021,"endTime":885.721,"body":"local impacts to, to the environment"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":885.731,"endTime":887.141,"body":"from factory farming as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":887.931,"endTime":892.531,"body":"One of the reasons we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":887.931,"endTime":892.531,"body":"moved to factory farming is that it is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":892.531,"endTime":901.437,"body":"a far more efficient way of producing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":892.531,"endTime":901.437,"body":"protein than having, cows out in the field"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":901.477,"endTime":903.617,"body":"grazing where they should naturally be."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.447,"endTime":909.057,"body":"So if you have them not in a field"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.447,"endTime":909.057,"body":"grazing, if you have them enclosed in a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":909.057,"endTime":914.251,"body":"space, 500 per meter, obviously not that,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":909.057,"endTime":914.251,"body":"but you know, very, very tight together."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":914.911,"endTime":919.281,"body":"It's more efficient in terms of protein"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":914.911,"endTime":919.281,"body":"production and we are a planet now of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":919.291,"endTime":924.221,"body":"over 8 billion people and one of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":919.291,"endTime":924.221,"body":"things that people were very worried"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":924.221,"endTime":929.081,"body":"about in the early 70s and late 60s was"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":924.221,"endTime":929.081,"body":"the fact that we were going to run out"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":929.081,"endTime":933.341,"body":"of food to feed people and then you had"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":929.081,"endTime":933.341,"body":"the green revolution which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":933.461,"endTime":940.541,"body":"all this is part of, so if we get rid of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":933.461,"endTime":940.541,"body":"factory farming, what's the alternative?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":941.721,"endTime":942.061,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":942.221,"endTime":945.751,"body":"So I think just firstly, to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":942.221,"endTime":945.751,"body":"slightly nuance this, I agree"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":945.751,"endTime":949.931,"body":"that it's very efficient in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":945.751,"endTime":949.931,"body":"terms of the inputs for the food."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":950.031,"endTime":954.056,"body":"But  when we think about factory farms"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":950.031,"endTime":954.056,"body":"being very efficient, what we're often"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":954.056,"endTime":957.816,"body":"doing is forgetting about all the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":954.056,"endTime":957.816,"body":"externalities that are created by this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":957.826,"endTime":963.706,"body":"So all this pollution and this impact"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":957.826,"endTime":963.706,"body":"on the climate is a cost of factory"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":963.706,"endTime":966.986,"body":"farming, but it's not being typically"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":963.706,"endTime":966.986,"body":"calculated when we think about the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":966.996,"endTime":969.536,"body":"price you pay in the supermarket"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":966.996,"endTime":969.536,"body":"for your food and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":969.566,"endTime":972.276,"body":"So factory farming is very"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":969.566,"endTime":972.276,"body":"efficient in terms of turning"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":972.276,"endTime":973.946,"body":"inputs into animal products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":974.036,"endTime":977.286,"body":"But if we were to include all"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":974.036,"endTime":977.286,"body":"these externalities, it starts"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":977.286,"endTime":978.546,"body":"to look a lot less, less good."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":979.096,"endTime":983.276,"body":"The alternative, the first thing to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":979.096,"endTime":983.276,"body":"say is like globally we will need"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":983.316,"endTime":987.756,"body":"to reduce the amount that we rely"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":983.316,"endTime":987.756,"body":"on animals to produce our food."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":988.356,"endTime":991.226,"body":"This is very clear it's from a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":988.356,"endTime":991.226,"body":"climate point of view, it is simply"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":991.226,"endTime":995.786,"body":"unsustainable to feed the the amount"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":991.226,"endTime":995.786,"body":"of animal products we do currently."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":995.966,"endTime":999.936,"body":"If we think currently most animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":995.966,"endTime":999.936,"body":"products are eaten by rich people because"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":999.936,"endTime":1003.396,"body":"they're like relatively expensive versus"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":999.936,"endTime":1003.396,"body":"say grains and crops things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1003.396,"endTime":1007.806,"body":"As the world gets richer, which is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1003.396,"endTime":1007.806,"body":"obviously a good thing broadly, we"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1007.806,"endTime":1010.216,"body":"want like people to be lifted out"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1007.806,"endTime":1010.216,"body":"of poverty and things like this,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1010.706,"endTime":1012.016,"body":"they're eating more animal products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1012.026,"endTime":1016.566,"body":"So without even growing the population"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1012.026,"endTime":1016.566,"body":"of the world, the current demand for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1016.566,"endTime":1018.136,"body":"animal products is, ever growing."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1018.456,"endTime":1022.436,"body":"and it is already at a level which is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1018.456,"endTime":1022.436,"body":"almost certainly unsustainable if we're"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1022.436,"endTime":1026.492,"body":"going to hit our climate goals of keeping,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1022.436,"endTime":1026.492,"body":"global warming between two, two degrees."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1027.522,"endTime":1030.702,"body":"So we need a, we need an alternative way"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1027.522,"endTime":1030.702,"body":"to produce food that people want to eat."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1031.222,"endTime":1033.622,"body":"There are some really exciting"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1031.222,"endTime":1033.622,"body":"technologies out there in the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1033.902,"endTime":1037.987,"body":"cultivated meat sector, where we're"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1033.902,"endTime":1037.987,"body":"looking at how you produce things"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1037.987,"endTime":1040.787,"body":"that are actual meat products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1040.811,"endTime":1044.601,"body":"So biologically they are indistinct"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1040.811,"endTime":1044.601,"body":"from something that, you know, a cow"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1044.601,"endTime":1048.964,"body":"steak or a cow burger, but are produced"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1044.601,"endTime":1048.964,"body":"essentially in a factory, if you like."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1048.964,"endTime":1053.424,"body":"So in a, in a kind of a process that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1048.964,"endTime":1053.424,"body":"is run by humans where we growing the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1053.574,"endTime":1055.334,"body":"cells themselves rather than the animal."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1056.244,"endTime":1060.824,"body":"These kinds of technologies can produce"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1056.244,"endTime":1060.824,"body":"food at a, with far fewer impact"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1060.824,"endTime":1065.317,"body":"inputs far less water usage, none of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1060.824,"endTime":1065.317,"body":"the need for growing of these crops,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1065.407,"endTime":1069.217,"body":"none of these methane emissions, so a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1065.407,"endTime":1069.217,"body":"much, much lower carbon footprint and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1069.477,"endTime":1070.947,"body":"much lower impact on the environment."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1071.377,"endTime":1074.237,"body":"This is a way to produce at"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1071.377,"endTime":1074.237,"body":"least some animal proteins."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1074.737,"endTime":1078.167,"body":"Then we have things like plant based"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1074.737,"endTime":1078.167,"body":"foods and things like this, which are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1078.167,"endTime":1082.007,"body":"also, I think, part of the the kind of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1078.167,"endTime":1082.007,"body":"food mix that we, that we'd like to see"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1082.057,"endTime":1087.127,"body":"and then there may be, I think there"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1082.057,"endTime":1087.127,"body":"definitely will be a role for some amount"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1087.127,"endTime":1091.887,"body":"of animal agriculture that's done in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1087.127,"endTime":1091.887,"body":"more sustainable and less intensive ways."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1091.887,"endTime":1094.497,"body":"And so it's having less of a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1091.887,"endTime":1094.497,"body":"direct impact on the planet."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1094.777,"endTime":1098.957,"body":"And I think that this combination of less"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1094.777,"endTime":1098.957,"body":"intensive animal agriculture and these"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1098.967,"endTime":1102.927,"body":"new technologies providing us with food"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1098.967,"endTime":1102.927,"body":"at scale at much lower environmental"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1102.997,"endTime":1107.227,"body":"costs is a good kind of roadmap for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1102.997,"endTime":1107.227,"body":"how we can produce a future food system"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1107.277,"endTime":1108.627,"body":"that's a lot kinder to the planet."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1109.404,"endTime":1112.734,"body":"If I am a factory"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1109.404,"endTime":1112.734,"body":"farmer, what incentive do I have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1112.744,"endTime":1114.894,"body":"to move away from factory farming?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1114.904,"endTime":1121.324,"body":"Obviously, I'm highly unlikely"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1114.904,"endTime":1121.324,"body":"to go the way of growing meat"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1121.354,"endTime":1123.244,"body":"in vats, cultivating meat."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.284,"endTime":1127.254,"body":"That's, that's more for,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.284,"endTime":1127.254,"body":"lab companies to do."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1127.864,"endTime":1128.274,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1129.214,"endTime":1133.084,"body":"I could grow plants, maybe"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1129.214,"endTime":1133.084,"body":"produce plant protein that way."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1133.674,"endTime":1138.524,"body":"More likely, I would go back to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1133.674,"endTime":1138.524,"body":"the example I used earlier of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1138.544,"endTime":1140.464,"body":"having the animals out in fields."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1140.864,"endTime":1144.194,"body":"But like I say, what's the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1140.864,"endTime":1144.194,"body":"incentive of doing that versus"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1144.194,"endTime":1145.574,"body":"my current factory farming?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1146.994,"endTime":1150.504,"body":"Yeah, so, on sort"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1146.994,"endTime":1150.504,"body":"of transitioning away from animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1150.534,"endTime":1153.574,"body":"agriculture directly, there are some"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1150.534,"endTime":1153.574,"body":"really interesting programs being run"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1153.604,"endTime":1156.914,"body":"in Europe I'm thinking particularly of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1153.604,"endTime":1156.914,"body":"Holland, where they're investing quite"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1156.914,"endTime":1160.904,"body":"a lot of money into helping farmers"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1156.914,"endTime":1160.904,"body":"to transition to less environmentally"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1160.944,"endTime":1164.37,"body":"damaging farming techniques and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1160.944,"endTime":1164.37,"body":"moving out of animal farming and into"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1164.67,"endTime":1165.85,"body":"plant farming and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1166.1,"endTime":1169.68,"body":"These seem like really exciting projects"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1166.1,"endTime":1169.68,"body":"because they're giving farmers a road"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1169.68,"endTime":1173.867,"body":"map, to finding new ways to make a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1169.68,"endTime":1173.867,"body":"living and a sort of fair transition"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1173.867,"endTime":1177.157,"body":"away from this kind of like high"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1173.867,"endTime":1177.157,"body":"carbon more damaging food system."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1177.427,"endTime":1179.097,"body":"So these seem like really good options."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1179.597,"endTime":1183.287,"body":"Farming for actual farmers for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1179.597,"endTime":1183.287,"body":"the people who run these farms is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1183.287,"endTime":1186.057,"body":"often really not great these days."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1186.097,"endTime":1191.457,"body":"So the kind of meat industry, it's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1186.097,"endTime":1191.457,"body":"dominated by a few very large companies"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1191.797,"endTime":1196.767,"body":"that tend to keep the cost they pay to the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1191.797,"endTime":1196.767,"body":"sort of on the ground farmer, very low."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1196.767,"endTime":1198.827,"body":"These people are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1196.767,"endTime":1198.827,"body":"operating at tiny margins."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1199.127,"endTime":1202.927,"body":"Often they are operating with"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1199.127,"endTime":1202.927,"body":"really considerable amounts of debt."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1203.937,"endTime":1207.377,"body":"And there are some at least"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1203.937,"endTime":1207.377,"body":"anecdotal evidence of like quite"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1207.377,"endTime":1211.287,"body":"high suicide rates and mental health"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1207.377,"endTime":1211.287,"body":"issues, for, farmers on the ground."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1211.297,"endTime":1216.827,"body":"So it's, I think it's very unconvincing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1211.297,"endTime":1216.827,"body":"that like, if we could give farmers a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1216.927,"endTime":1221.347,"body":"genuine route out to, a new kind of job"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1216.927,"endTime":1221.347,"body":"that they thought was still consistent"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1221.347,"endTime":1226.017,"body":"with their cultural self identity and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1221.347,"endTime":1226.017,"body":"things like this, that they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1226.017,"endTime":1227.667,"body":"just, take that with kind of open arms."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1227.667,"endTime":1230.437,"body":"I think it's very possible that they"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1227.667,"endTime":1230.437,"body":"would, they would love to do that."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1230.437,"endTime":1231.587,"body":"And many would love to do that."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1233.107,"endTime":1237.067,"body":"The, at that kind of bigger level of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1233.107,"endTime":1237.067,"body":"these large meat companies, I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1237.067,"endTime":1241.297,"body":"that consumer choice can play a really"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1237.067,"endTime":1241.297,"body":"big role and consumers can demand"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1241.397,"endTime":1242.627,"body":"new things like better standards."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1242.627,"endTime":1247.737,"body":"So, corporate campaigns that say to for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1242.627,"endTime":1247.737,"body":"example supermarkets or, you know, Burger"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1247.737,"endTime":1253.107,"body":"King or something like we don't, we as"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1247.737,"endTime":1253.107,"body":"consumers don't want you to buy eggs from"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1253.107,"endTime":1257.287,"body":"caged hens, for example, these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1253.107,"endTime":1257.287,"body":"campaigns have been enormously successful"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1257.677,"endTime":1261.077,"body":"in reducing the most cruel practices."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1261.087,"endTime":1264.137,"body":"So for example, caged egg laying hens."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1264.247,"endTime":1269.317,"body":"There's been a big campaign over the last"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1264.247,"endTime":1269.317,"body":"sort of 10 years to stop using caged eggs."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1269.577,"endTime":1276.352,"body":"And this has produced a increase from"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1269.577,"endTime":1276.352,"body":"about 4% of US hens  being out of cages"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1276.442,"endTime":1279.982,"body":"to 40% of US hens being cage free."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1280.252,"endTime":1282.632,"body":"So this is a massive change in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1280.252,"endTime":1282.632,"body":"a really small amount of time."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1282.862,"endTime":1287.542,"body":"And this has come from organisations like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1282.862,"endTime":1287.542,"body":"the Humane League, for example, focusing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1287.572,"endTime":1292.232,"body":"on pushing companies to say, we're going"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1287.572,"endTime":1292.232,"body":"to commit to buy only cage free hens."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1293.262,"endTime":1298.852,"body":"So these kinds of kind of consumer and NGO"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1293.262,"endTime":1298.852,"body":"pressures on companies can really force"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1298.852,"endTime":1304.532,"body":"them to change their practices And make"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1298.852,"endTime":1304.532,"body":"their farming more sustainable better"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1304.532,"endTime":1305.872,"body":"from an animal welfare point of view."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1306.242,"endTime":1309.592,"body":"And also I think ultimately this can"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1306.242,"endTime":1309.592,"body":"be a real pressure for pushing them to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1309.622,"endTime":1314.632,"body":"think about like, how do we produce food"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1309.622,"endTime":1314.632,"body":"that's less environmentally damaging?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1314.632,"endTime":1317.822,"body":"There's a big move from a lot"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1314.632,"endTime":1317.822,"body":"of these companies to, I think a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1317.822,"endTime":1320.852,"body":"lot of it's greenwashing, but to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1317.822,"endTime":1320.852,"body":"say like, we are producing high,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1321.132,"endTime":1323.282,"body":"green beef or whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1323.382,"endTime":1325.922,"body":"So there is clearly an incentive"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1323.382,"endTime":1325.922,"body":"there that they are responding to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1325.922,"endTime":1328.132,"body":"currently in quite a disingenuous way."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1328.372,"endTime":1331.222,"body":"But if we can hold them to account,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1328.372,"endTime":1331.222,"body":"then it is possible they will then"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1331.242,"endTime":1334.652,"body":"have to look at like, Okay, how"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1331.242,"endTime":1334.652,"body":"do we actually make our food more"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1334.652,"endTime":1336.952,"body":"sustainable and kinder to the planet?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1337.747,"endTime":1340.127,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1337.747,"endTime":1340.127,"body":"there's a lot to unpack there."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1340.607,"endTime":1349.507,"body":"If I go, for example, to the shop to buy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1340.607,"endTime":1349.507,"body":"eggs, there are all kinds of now wording"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1349.627,"endTime":1354.087,"body":"on packages that tries to sell me on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1349.627,"endTime":1354.087,"body":"the fact that they probably weren't in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1354.087,"endTime":1356.307,"body":"cages when they produced these eggs."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1356.977,"endTime":1362.212,"body":"So we need, I think we need,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1356.977,"endTime":1362.212,"body":"standardisation across labeling."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1362.222,"endTime":1367.682,"body":"There's some efforts at it, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1362.222,"endTime":1367.682,"body":"very clear not to me as a consumer and I'm"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1367.805,"endTime":1372.835,"body":"I like to think I'm reasonably educated"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1367.805,"endTime":1372.835,"body":"on the topic, so I think for people who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1373.025,"endTime":1376.065,"body":"don't look into this as much as me, it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1373.025,"endTime":1376.065,"body":"must be really, really confusing to try"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1376.065,"endTime":1378.565,"body":"and find more ethical food in general."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1380.015,"endTime":1381.015,"body":"Yes, I agree."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1381.099,"endTime":1384.759,"body":"there was a consultation on it"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1381.099,"endTime":1384.759,"body":"recently from the UK government to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1412.249,"endTime":1417.059,"body":"do mandatory standardised welfare"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1412.249,"endTime":1417.059,"body":"labeling across all animal products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1417.409,"endTime":1419.299,"body":"So this was going to be"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1417.409,"endTime":1419.299,"body":"like a five tier system."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1419.594,"endTime":1422.794,"body":"Where like A to E and like, they also"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1419.594,"endTime":1422.794,"body":"have very clear sort of standards"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1422.794,"endTime":1425.414,"body":"and everyone would have to print"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1422.794,"endTime":1425.414,"body":"this on their animal products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1425.684,"endTime":1430.374,"body":"These kinds of initiatives seem very"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1425.684,"endTime":1430.374,"body":"good because they remove a lot of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1430.374,"endTime":1434.2440000000001,"body":"the kind of bad incentives that you"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1430.374,"endTime":1434.2440000000001,"body":"can have in these kind of voluntary"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1434.2640000000001,"endTime":1435.704,"body":"labeling schemes and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1436.044,"endTime":1437.134,"body":"So that's really exciting."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1437.424,"endTime":1441.094,"body":"But the kind of broader point I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1437.424,"endTime":1441.094,"body":"is actually, it shouldn't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1441.094,"endTime":1444.644,"body":"think it should be on the consumer to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1441.094,"endTime":1444.644,"body":"make these kind of choices ultimately."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1445.4940000000001,"endTime":1448.324,"body":"the analogy I'd like to use is, is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1445.4940000000001,"endTime":1448.324,"body":"with the carbon footprint, right?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1448.874,"endTime":1453.2740000000001,"body":"In sort of previously we have this idea"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1448.874,"endTime":1453.2740000000001,"body":"of the carbon footprint, which focuses"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1453.304,"endTime":1456.084,"body":"people on, Oh, I need to fly less."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1456.084,"endTime":1457.184,"body":"I need to drive my car less."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1457.184,"endTime":1460.074,"body":"I need to like, have only a two"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1457.184,"endTime":1460.074,"body":"minute shower or whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1460.544,"endTime":1465.184,"body":"And kind of ignores the fact that that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1460.544,"endTime":1465.184,"body":"there are these systematic and structural"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1465.184,"endTime":1467.294,"body":"reasons why our economy is high carbon."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1467.894,"endTime":1470.367,"body":"And I think it's the same when"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1467.894,"endTime":1470.367,"body":"it comes to animal products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1470.617,"endTime":1473.987,"body":"We as consumers, live in a place"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1470.617,"endTime":1473.987,"body":"where it's for many people, it's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1473.987,"endTime":1477.807,"body":"extremely hard to find plant based"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1473.987,"endTime":1477.807,"body":"or high welfare alternatives."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1477.967,"endTime":1480.837,"body":"It's, as you say, extremely confusing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1477.967,"endTime":1480.837,"body":"to look in the shop and work out"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1481.017,"endTime":1483.877,"body":"which of these products is the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1481.017,"endTime":1483.877,"body":"best, best one for the climate or"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1483.877,"endTime":1485.607,"body":"the best one for animal welfare."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1485.607,"endTime":1488.077,"body":"There's a lot of misinformation"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1485.607,"endTime":1488.077,"body":"out there as well."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1488.847,"endTime":1493.627,"body":"And really it should be on the companies"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1488.847,"endTime":1493.627,"body":"and we should be, I think the, more"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1493.637,"endTime":1497.912,"body":"effective thing as a consumer to do is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1493.637,"endTime":1497.912,"body":"to think about, How can I use my voice"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1497.912,"endTime":1502.912,"body":"to pressure corporations and governments"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1497.912,"endTime":1502.912,"body":"to change the game itself and to change"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1502.912,"endTime":1507.952,"body":"the structures rather than trying to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1502.912,"endTime":1507.952,"body":"expend huge amounts of effort myself"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1508.0520000000001,"endTime":1510.682,"body":"on picking the right eggs in the shop."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1510.7920000000001,"endTime":1513.967,"body":"So I would say to people It's okay."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1513.987,"endTime":1515.597,"body":"You don't, don't feel too much pressure."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1515.6670000000001,"endTime":1518.6570000000002,"body":"Obviously, if you can find the cage"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1515.6670000000001,"endTime":1518.6570000000002,"body":"free eggs, that's great, but don't,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1518.6670000000001,"endTime":1520.497,"body":"don't put this all on yourself, right?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1520.497,"endTime":1524.067,"body":"Like, instead let's, let's think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1520.497,"endTime":1524.067,"body":"about how we can pressure the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1524.267,"endTime":1527.622,"body":"organisations with the real power to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1524.267,"endTime":1527.622,"body":"make a significant change to do that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1528.482,"endTime":1529.712,"body":"Nice agitate for change."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1529.722,"endTime":1530.252,"body":"I like it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1531.212,"endTime":1539.122,"body":"In terms of, I mean, you mentioned plant"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1531.212,"endTime":1539.122,"body":"protein or plant based meat, I guess."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1539.372,"endTime":1542.332,"body":"No, that's not the right way to put it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1539.372,"endTime":1542.332,"body":"either because all meat is plant based"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1542.332,"endTime":1547.592,"body":"meat essentially, but the likes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1542.332,"endTime":1547.592,"body":"Beyond Meat, which is a meat substitute"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1547.632,"endTime":1551.672,"body":"made from plants directly, obviously"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1547.632,"endTime":1551.672,"body":"much more efficient to do it that way."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1552.122,"endTime":1553.582,"body":"Impossible Foods is another one."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1553.652,"endTime":1554.712,"body":"There are several more."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1555.372,"endTime":1559.212,"body":"We're all quite familiar with them, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1555.372,"endTime":1559.212,"body":"the other alternative that you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1559.392,"endTime":1563.492,"body":"the cultivated meats, which is where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1559.392,"endTime":1563.492,"body":"you take, you know, like a biopsy type"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1564.862,"endTime":1567.682,"body":"amount of material from an animal."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1567.712,"endTime":1568.102,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1568.652,"endTime":1573.212,"body":"Not very cruel or less cruel than"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1568.652,"endTime":1573.212,"body":"shooting them in the head and putting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1573.212,"endTime":1579.0320000000002,"body":"that into a vat and growing it up to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1573.212,"endTime":1579.0320000000002,"body":"several tons of meat or whatever that's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1579.0520000000001,"endTime":1587.232,"body":"not yet as widely available or even"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1579.0520000000001,"endTime":1587.232,"body":"regulated for in most markets yet."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1587.582,"endTime":1595.192,"body":"So where are we with getting meat"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1587.582,"endTime":1595.192,"body":"that's produced in a vat as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1596.192,"endTime":1599.3120000000001,"body":"the likes of the Impossible Foods and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1596.192,"endTime":1599.3120000000001,"body":"Beyond Meats that I mentioned earlier?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1599.832,"endTime":1603.8020000000001,"body":"So these products have"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1599.832,"endTime":1603.8020000000001,"body":"made some pretty impressive gains over"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1603.862,"endTime":1605.082,"body":"a relatively short amount of time."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1605.082,"endTime":1605.492,"body":"But you're right."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1605.675,"endTime":1607.615,"body":"You can't go to the shops"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1605.675,"endTime":1607.615,"body":"right now and buy them."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1607.905,"endTime":1611.565,"body":"So they are regulated they have been"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1607.905,"endTime":1611.565,"body":"approved for at least some kind of sale"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1611.595,"endTime":1617.3490000000002,"body":"in Singapore, Israel and even the FDA"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1611.595,"endTime":1617.3490000000002,"body":"in the US has approved these processes."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1617.919,"endTime":1621.779,"body":"You can buy in some restaurants in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1617.919,"endTime":1621.779,"body":"places like Singapore, you can, you"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1621.799,"endTime":1624.979,"body":"have been able to buy cultivated"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1621.799,"endTime":1624.979,"body":"chicken for some number of years."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1625.479,"endTime":1631.922,"body":"And in the US a similar process to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1625.479,"endTime":1631.922,"body":"produce proteins from milk  is used"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1632.142,"endTime":1635.1090000000002,"body":"to produce things like cheeses and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1632.142,"endTime":1635.1090000000002,"body":"ice creams and things like this."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1635.1190000000001,"endTime":1638.739,"body":"So there are some, some products"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1635.1190000000001,"endTime":1638.739,"body":"that you can buy in the US which"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1638.749,"endTime":1640.319,"body":"are using essentially this process."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1640.6090000000002,"endTime":1644.519,"body":"And they are available for sale,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1640.6090000000002,"endTime":1644.519,"body":"but in general, yes, this is still"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1644.519,"endTime":1647.679,"body":"like pretty new and it's still a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1644.519,"endTime":1647.679,"body":"technology that's in development."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1647.919,"endTime":1653.364,"body":"It's still something that needs a lot of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1647.919,"endTime":1653.364,"body":"support from either governments or from"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1653.364,"endTime":1657.154,"body":"NGOs and there's an amazing organisation"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1653.364,"endTime":1657.154,"body":"called The Good Food Institute that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1657.204,"endTime":1660.7340000000002,"body":"has really been spearheading this the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1657.204,"endTime":1660.7340000000002,"body":"development of alternative proteins"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1660.804,"endTime":1664.204,"body":"and including cultivated meats for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1660.804,"endTime":1664.204,"body":"a number of years thinking about how"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1664.204,"endTime":1667.604,"body":"we can bring scientists together with"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1664.204,"endTime":1667.604,"body":"entrepreneurs to kind of build these"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1667.604,"endTime":1669.564,"body":"companies that can explore these things."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1669.564,"endTime":1675.164,"body":"How can we share learnings and also how"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1669.564,"endTime":1675.164,"body":"can we try to ensure that the regulatory"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1675.174,"endTime":1679.0990000000002,"body":"environment is fair for these new"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1675.174,"endTime":1679.0990000000002,"body":"technologies because we have, some of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1679.0990000000002,"endTime":1682.409,"body":"your listeners might know about this, but"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1679.0990000000002,"endTime":1682.409,"body":"there have been some bans on cultivated"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1682.409,"endTime":1685.809,"body":"meat, despite the fact that they're not"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1682.409,"endTime":1685.809,"body":"even available for sale yet in a number"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1685.809,"endTime":1688.739,"body":"of states in the US and also in Italy."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1689.2340000000002,"endTime":1693.5140000000001,"body":"These are being largely driven by"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1689.2340000000002,"endTime":1693.5140000000001,"body":"the meat lobby and companies who"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1693.684,"endTime":1696.237,"body":"essentially don't want to have"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1693.684,"endTime":1696.237,"body":"to compete with these products."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1696.237,"endTime":1699.6970000000001,"body":"And so they are kind of, often turning"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1696.237,"endTime":1699.6970000000001,"body":"it into kind of a culture war issue"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1700.067,"endTime":1704.507,"body":"and pushing for legislation  which"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1700.067,"endTime":1704.507,"body":"is sometimes explicitly protectionist"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1704.847,"endTime":1707.277,"body":"to ban these products before"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1704.847,"endTime":1707.277,"body":"they're even hitting the shelves."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1707.537,"endTime":1710.367,"body":"So, The Good Food Institute also helps"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1707.537,"endTime":1710.367,"body":"to kind of try and push back on these"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1710.6770000000001,"endTime":1714.1870000000001,"body":"and create a better, a fairer playing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1710.6770000000001,"endTime":1714.1870000000001,"body":"field for these new technologies too."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1715.3300000000002,"endTime":1719.7640000000001,"body":"And essentially, the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1715.3300000000002,"endTime":1719.7640000000001,"body":"meat produced in these, I want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1719.7640000000001,"endTime":1726.574,"body":"call them vats is a very similar"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1719.7640000000001,"endTime":1726.574,"body":"process to the way we produce yogurts."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1727.154,"endTime":1731.074,"body":"Any kind of fermented food"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1727.154,"endTime":1731.074,"body":"that are also produced in vats."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1731.084,"endTime":1735.0240000000001,"body":"We're just taking, in this case,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1731.084,"endTime":1735.0240000000001,"body":"cells of animals and growing them up"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1735.0240000000001,"endTime":1739.5140000000001,"body":"in a vat and that produces a mass of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1735.0240000000001,"endTime":1739.5140000000001,"body":"cells, which is essentially what meat"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1739.5240000000001,"endTime":1745.364,"body":"is anyway, and they're genetically"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1739.5240000000001,"endTime":1745.364,"body":"indistinguishable from meat from a live"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1745.364,"endTime":1748.794,"body":"animal that we've slaughtered to meat"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1745.364,"endTime":1748.794,"body":"that comes out of the vat, correct?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1749.6490000000001,"endTime":1752.759,"body":"Yeah, these are very,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1749.6490000000001,"endTime":1752.759,"body":"very similar processes in many ways"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1752.759,"endTime":1757.769,"body":"to, as you say, to things we, we have"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1752.759,"endTime":1757.769,"body":"certainly much, much cleaner and more"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1757.769,"endTime":1760.249,"body":"disease free than the factory farming is."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1760.339,"endTime":1765.079,"body":"And I would argue also given the amount of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1760.339,"endTime":1765.079,"body":"kind of antibiotics and hormones that are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1765.1190000000001,"endTime":1770.779,"body":"often fed to farmed animals and the amount"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1765.1190000000001,"endTime":1770.779,"body":"of genetic modification that is already"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1770.779,"endTime":1774.829,"body":"in the breeds that we certainly know"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1770.779,"endTime":1774.829,"body":"that's natural even than than the meat"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1774.829,"endTime":1776.919,"body":"that we consume on the on the regular."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1777.844,"endTime":1782.594,"body":"Yeah, I guess the difficulty"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1777.844,"endTime":1782.594,"body":"when in terms of cultivated meat would"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1782.604,"endTime":1788.799,"body":"be that you could cultivate the likes of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1782.604,"endTime":1788.799,"body":"minced meat, but you wouldn't be able to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1788.799,"endTime":1790.509,"body":"cultivate the likes of a steak, correct?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1792.095,"endTime":1795.035,"body":"So I don't, I wouldn't want"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1792.095,"endTime":1795.035,"body":"to say confidently you definitely can't,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1795.035,"endTime":1799.5990000000002,"body":"but certainly the early developments have"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1795.035,"endTime":1799.5990000000002,"body":"been in things like burgers and mincemeats"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1799.5990000000002,"endTime":1804.679,"body":"and these kinds of products where you're,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1799.5990000000002,"endTime":1804.679,"body":"you can grow small amounts of the protein"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1804.679,"endTime":1808.6190000000001,"body":"and sort of, effectively like mold it"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1804.679,"endTime":1808.6190000000001,"body":"together into a, into a given shape."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1809.909,"endTime":1810.319,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1810.795,"endTime":1812.9950000000001,"body":"Let's go for a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1810.795,"endTime":1812.9950000000001,"body":"left field question, Thom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1813.4450000000002,"endTime":1819.075,"body":"If you were to describe FarmKind's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1813.4450000000002,"endTime":1819.075,"body":"mission in terms of a superhero story,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1819.075,"endTime":1824.7250000000001,"body":"what Obviously, the likes of factory"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1819.075,"endTime":1824.7250000000001,"body":"farming would be the villain, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1824.7250000000001,"endTime":1826.815,"body":"what would FarmKind's superpower be?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1828.925,"endTime":1830.755,"body":"ooh, that's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1828.925,"endTime":1830.755,"body":"an interesting question."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1830.875,"endTime":1838.539,"body":"So I think I, maybe I'll go for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1830.875,"endTime":1838.539,"body":"Ant Man here because the, the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1839.009,"endTime":1842.8690000000001,"body":"meat industry is worth about 2"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1839.009,"endTime":1842.8690000000001,"body":"trillion, 2.3 trillion dollars."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1842.939,"endTime":1848.365,"body":"And the amount of money that goes into"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1842.939,"endTime":1848.365,"body":"charities that work to tackle factory"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1848.365,"endTime":1854.555,"body":"farming is about 200 to 290, depending"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1848.365,"endTime":1854.555,"body":"on your estimate, million dollars."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1854.845,"endTime":1859.0,"body":"So it's around about a thousand"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1854.845,"endTime":1859.0,"body":"times smaller than the meat industry."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1859.55,"endTime":1863.17,"body":"Which, Ant Man to, yeah, seems a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1859.55,"endTime":1863.17,"body":"little bit, but, and yeah, actually"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1863.22,"endTime":1867.2,"body":"the fight against Factory Farming does"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1863.22,"endTime":1867.2,"body":"pack quite a punch, just like Ant Man."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1867.49,"endTime":1872.99,"body":"As I mentioned before, we've seen"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1867.49,"endTime":1872.99,"body":"an increase from 4% of cage free"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1873.02,"endTime":1875.4,"body":"hens to 40% over the last 10 years."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1876.52,"endTime":1881.18,"body":"We've seen recently Proposition 12,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1876.52,"endTime":1881.18,"body":"which is a, a landmark piece of animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1881.18,"endTime":1884.99,"body":"welfare legislation in California was"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1881.18,"endTime":1884.99,"body":"defended successfully in the Supreme"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1884.99,"endTime":1888.9,"body":"Court versus both the meat industry and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1884.99,"endTime":1888.9,"body":"the Biden administration weighing on"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1888.9,"endTime":1890.22,"body":"the support of the meat industry there."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1890.69,"endTime":1895.48,"body":"We've seen things like these multi"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1890.69,"endTime":1895.48,"body":"million Euro transition schemes"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1895.48,"endTime":1898.94,"body":"for moving to more sustainable"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1895.48,"endTime":1898.94,"body":"agriculture going on across Europe."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1899.38,"endTime":1902.97,"body":"So there are a number of really exciting"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1899.38,"endTime":1902.97,"body":"things going on in this battle against"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1902.97,"endTime":1907.3300000000002,"body":"factory farming despite the fact that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1902.97,"endTime":1907.3300000000002,"body":"the the kind of NGO space here is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1907.39,"endTime":1909.4,"body":"absolutely tiny, versus the enemy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1910.2450000000001,"endTime":1912.105,"body":"What about consumers?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1912.155,"endTime":1914.757,"body":"I know you said it's a it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1912.155,"endTime":1914.757,"body":"like carbon footprints."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1914.757,"endTime":1920.507,"body":"We shouldn't guilt ourselves into it, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1914.757,"endTime":1920.507,"body":"it's quite difficult as a consumer going"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1920.527,"endTime":1926.6570000000002,"body":"to a restaurant, for example, and even"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1920.527,"endTime":1926.6570000000002,"body":"even that that's me looking for stuff."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1927.057,"endTime":1932.952,"body":"But what about the vast majority"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1927.057,"endTime":1932.952,"body":"of consumers who might actually be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1932.952,"endTime":1937.012,"body":"looking for a steak, a big juicy steak."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1937.332,"endTime":1946.002,"body":"How do we shift attitudes there away"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1937.332,"endTime":1946.002,"body":"from very high contaminating food"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1946.002,"endTime":1948.182,"body":"products to more sustainable ones?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1948.182,"endTime":1952.982,"body":"Because shifting that culture, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1948.182,"endTime":1952.982,"body":"mean, it's easy enough to shift"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1952.992,"endTime":1956.992,"body":"technologies, but shifting people's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1952.992,"endTime":1956.992,"body":"attitudes, much more difficult prospect."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1958.6770000000001,"endTime":1959.737,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1960.077,"endTime":1963.8970000000002,"body":"Which is why I think broadly certainly"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1960.077,"endTime":1963.8970000000002,"body":"at the moment, it's probably not"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1964.4270000000001,"endTime":1967.787,"body":"focusing on people's individual"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1964.4270000000001,"endTime":1967.787,"body":"diet choices is probably not where"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1967.787,"endTime":1968.877,"body":"we want to be putting our efforts."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1969.377,"endTime":1972.837,"body":"We're much better off changing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1969.377,"endTime":1972.837,"body":"kind of the landscape in which the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1972.837,"endTime":1975.957,"body":"consumer is making a choice rather"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1972.837,"endTime":1975.957,"body":"than trying to get the consumer"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1975.957,"endTime":1977.027,"body":"themselves to change their choice."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1977.037,"endTime":1979.597,"body":"So if we provide more alternatives."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1979.597,"endTime":1982.137,"body":"So for example more plant based"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1979.597,"endTime":1982.137,"body":"alternatives and more of these kind"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1982.137,"endTime":1986.757,"body":"of alternative proteins and if we"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1982.137,"endTime":1986.757,"body":"can make sure that the meat that is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1986.757,"endTime":1990.387,"body":"available is raised in higher welfare"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1986.757,"endTime":1990.387,"body":"environments So for example, not not"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1990.4070000000002,"endTime":1996.6570000000002,"body":"in cages and is also raised in in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1990.4070000000002,"endTime":1996.6570000000002,"body":"less environmentally damaging ways."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1996.717,"endTime":1999.777,"body":"So the the suite of choices"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":1996.717,"endTime":1999.777,"body":"available to you as a consumer"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2000.007,"endTime":2002.1970000000001,"body":"are themselves better options."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2002.4270000000001,"endTime":2005.9070000000002,"body":"I think this is the this is the right"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2002.4270000000001,"endTime":2005.9070000000002,"body":"approach for us to be taking it's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2005.9070000000002,"endTime":2009.497,"body":"likely to be I think the evidence"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2005.9070000000002,"endTime":2009.497,"body":"suggests significantly more effective."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2009.997,"endTime":2010.727,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2010.837,"endTime":2011.1570000000002,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2011.997,"endTime":2017.807,"body":"Looking ahead, 5, 10 years, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2011.997,"endTime":2017.807,"body":"do you hope will have changed about how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2017.807,"endTime":2019.847,"body":"we think about and tackle factory farming?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2021.614,"endTime":2025.627,"body":"The first thing to say"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2021.614,"endTime":2025.627,"body":"is this problem, it can feel extremely"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2025.6470000000002,"endTime":2028.057,"body":"overwhelming and it can feel like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2025.6470000000002,"endTime":2028.057,"body":"there's like nothing we can do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2028.497,"endTime":2031.3970000000002,"body":"But I think as I've, as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2028.497,"endTime":2031.3970000000002,"body":"there are some really positive signs."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2031.3970000000002,"endTime":2035.877,"body":"And so what I think is very possible"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2031.3970000000002,"endTime":2035.877,"body":"that in the next kind of 10 ,years"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2036.1200000000001,"endTime":2040.69,"body":"certain practices like keeping hens in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2036.1200000000001,"endTime":2040.69,"body":"cages are regarded as genuinely kind"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2040.69,"endTime":2045.45,"body":"of beyond the pale and just kind of a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2040.69,"endTime":2045.45,"body":"really small percentage of the market."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2045.8700000000001,"endTime":2048.7,"body":"I think it's also possible that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2045.8700000000001,"endTime":2048.7,"body":"things like these alternative proteins"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2048.7,"endTime":2049.88,"body":"are starting to hit the shelves."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2050.29,"endTime":2055.49,"body":"Starting to be part of the kind of foods"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2050.29,"endTime":2055.49,"body":"that we see And we're really starting"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2055.49,"endTime":2059.2599999999998,"body":"to see this quite concerted change in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2055.49,"endTime":2059.2599999999998,"body":"the way that we think about a diet."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2059.48,"endTime":2063.71,"body":"I also think that we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2059.48,"endTime":2063.71,"body":"increasingly politicians who are dealing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2063.71,"endTime":2067.845,"body":"with climate change and are serious"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2063.71,"endTime":2067.845,"body":"about climate change, really taking on"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2067.9249999999997,"endTime":2071.965,"body":"the idea that the food system is a major"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2067.9249999999997,"endTime":2071.965,"body":"part of how we deal with this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2072.252,"endTime":2076.4120000000003,"body":"I expect to see, and I really hope to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2072.252,"endTime":2076.4120000000003,"body":"see our food taking a much more prominent"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2076.442,"endTime":2079.732,"body":"role within this kind of broader climate"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2076.442,"endTime":2079.732,"body":"change discussion, because I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2079.732,"endTime":2083.502,"body":"it really needs to, given how much of"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2079.732,"endTime":2083.502,"body":"a contributor it is to this problem."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2084.497,"endTime":2089.137,"body":"For people who are listening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2084.497,"endTime":2089.137,"body":"who are inspired by this conversation,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2089.764,"endTime":2093.474,"body":"what's the one thing they can do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2089.764,"endTime":2093.474,"body":"today to help combat factory farming?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2095.059,"endTime":2098.149,"body":"Yeah, so I think there"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2095.059,"endTime":2098.149,"body":"are a number of things you can do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2098.259,"endTime":2102.789,"body":"One of the simplest and easiest"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2098.259,"endTime":2102.789,"body":"for many people is actually"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2102.789,"endTime":2106.342,"body":"just to donate to organisations"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2102.789,"endTime":2106.342,"body":"that are working on this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2106.782,"endTime":2109.942,"body":"You don't have to do that through FarmKind"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2106.782,"endTime":2109.942,"body":"You can you can do it somewhere else."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2109.992,"endTime":2111.332,"body":"You can do it through FarmKind too."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2111.352,"endTime":2114.102,"body":"We actually have a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2111.352,"endTime":2114.102,"body":"calculator on our website."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2114.1620000000003,"endTime":2116.1420000000003,"body":"Which you can find at"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2114.1620000000003,"endTime":2116.1420000000003,"body":"compassion calculator."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2116.1420000000003,"endTime":2116.502,"body":"org."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2116.7870000000003,"endTime":2120.5,"body":"It allows you to put in kind of what"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2116.7870000000003,"endTime":2120.5,"body":"you eat in terms of animal products on"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2120.5,"endTime":2124.23,"body":"a weekly basis and find out how much"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2120.5,"endTime":2124.23,"body":"money you would need to donate if you"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2124.23,"endTime":2128.73,"body":"wanted to do as much good for animals as"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2124.23,"endTime":2128.73,"body":"it would be if you sort of like cut all"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2128.73,"endTime":2130.61,"body":"those products out of your diet entirely."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2130.64,"endTime":2134.2670000000003,"body":"And we assume that that means that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2130.64,"endTime":2134.2670000000003,"body":"by cutting them out, those, those"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2134.2670000000003,"endTime":2135.457,"body":"animals weren't raised for food."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2135.907,"endTime":2141.577,"body":"And it costs about 23 dollars a month to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2135.907,"endTime":2141.577,"body":"have the same impact as going entirely"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2141.577,"endTime":2143.237,"body":"vegan, as it were for that entire month."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2143.277,"endTime":2145.207,"body":"So really not that much money."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2145.227,"endTime":2145.427,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2145.737,"endTime":2149.637,"body":"This is the amount of money that"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2145.737,"endTime":2149.637,"body":"most people can afford and can have"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2149.697,"endTime":2151.5370000000003,"body":"a immediate impact straight away."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2152.684,"endTime":2154.054,"body":"That's a simple thing that people can do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2154.424,"endTime":2158.149,"body":"Another thing if you're really not"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2154.424,"endTime":2158.149,"body":"quite sure, is getting involved in"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2158.442,"endTime":2161.902,"body":"things like position campaigns and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2158.442,"endTime":2161.902,"body":"political campaigns that are lobbying"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2161.902,"endTime":2165.3920000000003,"body":"for these kinds of changes So the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2161.902,"endTime":2165.3920000000003,"body":"Humane League is a good example of an"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2165.3920000000003,"endTime":2168.6620000000003,"body":"organisation that's constantly running"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2165.3920000000003,"endTime":2168.6620000000003,"body":"these corporate campaigns are pushing"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2168.6620000000003,"endTime":2173.445,"body":"companies to have better welfare for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2168.6620000000003,"endTime":2173.445,"body":"egg laying chickens, but also meat"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2173.445,"endTime":2175.445,"body":"chickens and pigs and some other animals."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2175.735,"endTime":2178.565,"body":"They do these kind of online"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2175.735,"endTime":2178.565,"body":"campaigns where you can get involved."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2178.88,"endTime":2181.2000000000003,"body":"Just from sitting at home,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2178.88,"endTime":2181.2000000000003,"body":"like on your phone, you can get"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2181.2000000000003,"endTime":2182.84,"body":"involved and show your support."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2182.85,"endTime":2185.33,"body":"So this is a really simple"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2182.85,"endTime":2185.33,"body":"thing that everyone can do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2185.4500000000003,"endTime":2188.6,"body":"And then also there is for people"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2185.4500000000003,"endTime":2188.6,"body":"who want to take the bigger step"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2188.66,"endTime":2190.62,"body":"diet change does have an impact."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2190.67,"endTime":2194.94,"body":"I don't think we should be asking people"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2190.67,"endTime":2194.94,"body":"to do that as a first sort of step."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2195.29,"endTime":2198.7400000000002,"body":"And it's not for everybody, but it does"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2195.29,"endTime":2198.7400000000002,"body":"make a difference and it is a thing you"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2198.7400000000002,"endTime":2200.48,"body":"can do to make a big difference here."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2201.4700000000003,"endTime":2202.5,"body":"Lovely, great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2202.675,"endTime":2204.455,"body":"if I think back, I'm, I'm not vegan."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2204.955,"endTime":2211.525,"body":"I'm not even vegetarian, but I do at least"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2204.955,"endTime":2211.525,"body":"try and reduce the amount of meat I eat."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2212.145,"endTime":2219.655,"body":"And I haven't eaten beef probably"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2212.145,"endTime":2219.655,"body":"in 15 years, because if you look"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2219.805,"endTime":2223.585,"body":"particularly at any of the charts of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2219.805,"endTime":2223.585,"body":"the environmental damage, particularly"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.585,"endTime":2228.8,"body":"the carbon footprint of foods, beef"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2223.585,"endTime":2228.8,"body":"is almost orders of magnitude ahead"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2228.82,"endTime":2230.82,"body":"of the next nearest food stuff."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2231.29,"endTime":2234.93,"body":"So just by cutting out beef out of your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2231.29,"endTime":2234.93,"body":"diet or even reducing it, like I say,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2234.93,"endTime":2236.36,"body":"I haven't had any in about 15 years."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2237.58,"endTime":2241.15,"body":"You can make a significant reduction"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2237.58,"endTime":2241.15,"body":"in your emissions at least."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.19,"endTime":2245.96,"body":"And also to your point in as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.19,"endTime":2245.96,"body":"well, just the welfare of animals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2245.9700000000003,"endTime":2247.797,"body":"So keep that in mind."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2247.837,"endTime":2249.577,"body":"If you're listening to this and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2247.837,"endTime":2249.577,"body":"looking for something to do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2250.887,"endTime":2254.294,"body":"Yeah, So I think"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2250.887,"endTime":2254.294,"body":"reducing is a great option for people."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2254.294,"endTime":2258.254,"body":"Like it's very doing something like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2254.294,"endTime":2258.254,"body":"having one meatless meal a week"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2258.254,"endTime":2260.274,"body":"or something like this is like,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2258.254,"endTime":2260.274,"body":"is a really great thing to do."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2260.274,"endTime":2261.084,"body":"And makes a big difference."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2261.564,"endTime":2264.514,"body":"If you care about both the climate"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2261.564,"endTime":2264.514,"body":"and the animal welfare impact of your"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2264.514,"endTime":2267.984,"body":"food, one thing to consider is there"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2264.514,"endTime":2267.984,"body":"is actually a little bit of attention"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2267.984,"endTime":2270.1240000000003,"body":"here in terms of like, if we're"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2267.984,"endTime":2270.1240000000003,"body":"thinking about like, are we going to"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2270.1240000000003,"endTime":2271.494,"body":"eat this meat instead of this meat?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2271.8740000000003,"endTime":2277.814,"body":"Because the animals that are in terms"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2271.8740000000003,"endTime":2277.814,"body":"of animal products, the lower emissions."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2277.924,"endTime":2285.054,"body":"So particularly chickens also have both"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2277.924,"endTime":2285.054,"body":"some of the worst welfare conditions"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2285.204,"endTime":2286.424,"body":"in terms of the way we produce them."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2286.704,"endTime":2290.884,"body":"But also because the animal themselves"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2286.704,"endTime":2290.884,"body":"is a lot smaller, you have to eat a lot"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2290.884,"endTime":2295.8940000000002,"body":"more chickens to replace the, like, let's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2290.884,"endTime":2295.8940000000002,"body":"say you're eating, like, your meals are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2295.8940000000002,"endTime":2299.484,"body":"all beef and you now have, your switch"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2295.8940000000002,"endTime":2299.484,"body":"all to chickens, you're eating a lot"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2299.484,"endTime":2303.664,"body":"more chickens, which means a lot more"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2299.484,"endTime":2303.664,"body":"animals need to go through the process"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2303.694,"endTime":2306.984,"body":"in order to feed you than for, cows."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2307.334,"endTime":2313.784,"body":"So, if we say replace our cow with,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2307.334,"endTime":2313.784,"body":"chicken, then although that is definitely"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2313.794,"endTime":2317.454,"body":"better from a climate point of view, it"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2313.794,"endTime":2317.454,"body":"also comes with this quite really quite"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2317.454,"endTime":2321.444,"body":"significant welfare trade off which"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2317.454,"endTime":2321.444,"body":"also also has some impacts on pandemic"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2321.444,"endTime":2323.204,"body":"risks and things like this as well."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2323.504,"endTime":2327.569,"body":"So I think my personal suggestion"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2323.504,"endTime":2327.569,"body":"would be if you if you think all these"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2327.569,"endTime":2332.549,"body":"things matter, that it's probably on"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2327.569,"endTime":2332.549,"body":"net better to focus on like, having"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2332.549,"endTime":2336.889,"body":"like, say, one less meal a week or"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2332.549,"endTime":2336.889,"body":"something like this, rather than kind"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2336.889,"endTime":2340.299,"body":"of trying to like replace cows with"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2336.889,"endTime":2340.299,"body":"like chickens or something like this."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2340.527,"endTime":2340.757,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2341.407,"endTime":2343.347,"body":"Thom, we're coming towards"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2341.407,"endTime":2343.347,"body":"the end of the podcast now."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2343.347,"endTime":2348.317,"body":"Is there any question I didn't ask that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2343.347,"endTime":2348.317,"body":"you wish I did or any aspect of this we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2348.317,"endTime":2350.967,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2348.317,"endTime":2350.967,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2353.025,"endTime":2357.592,"body":"I think the one thing I"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2353.025,"endTime":2357.592,"body":"would underline, is, this issue of factory"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2357.592,"endTime":2361.362,"body":"farming is often thought about as like,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2357.592,"endTime":2361.362,"body":"if I don't care about animal welfare."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2361.929,"endTime":2364.7690000000002,"body":"well, I can just leave this alone,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2361.929,"endTime":2364.7690000000002,"body":"but we've talked about some of the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2364.7690000000002,"endTime":2368.849,"body":"climate aspects of this issue, but"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2364.7690000000002,"endTime":2368.849,"body":"there's also something that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2368.849,"endTime":2372.0190000000002,"body":"get talked about so much, but it's"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2368.849,"endTime":2372.0190000000002,"body":"the human health aspect of this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2372.029,"endTime":2377.209,"body":"So the biggest driver of pandemics"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2372.029,"endTime":2377.209,"body":"historically has been animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2377.209,"endTime":2379.089,"body":"agriculture of one source or another."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2380.107,"endTime":2384.167,"body":"Today, the significant risks to us"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2380.107,"endTime":2384.167,"body":"for sort of future pandemics, like"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2384.2670000000003,"endTime":2388.257,"body":"the next kind of COVID, are things"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2384.2670000000003,"endTime":2388.257,"body":"like bird flu and swine flu, which"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2388.317,"endTime":2392.687,"body":"are largely driven by intensive animal"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2388.317,"endTime":2392.687,"body":"agriculture and factory farming."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2394.187,"endTime":2399.317,"body":"And antibiotic resistant diseases are"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2394.187,"endTime":2399.317,"body":"expected to potentially be one of the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2399.317,"endTime":2401.837,"body":"leading causes of human death by 2050."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2402.137,"endTime":2406.387,"body":"And while factory farming is not the"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2402.137,"endTime":2406.387,"body":"only driver by no means of these, it"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2406.437,"endTime":2408.577,"body":"is a significant driver of this issue."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2408.907,"endTime":2413.117,"body":"So whether you care about the planet as"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2408.907,"endTime":2413.117,"body":"I'm sure most, if not all your listeners"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2413.117,"endTime":2418.637,"body":"do, animal welfare or human health or"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2413.117,"endTime":2418.637,"body":"all these things, thinking about how you"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2418.637,"endTime":2422.027,"body":"can make a difference to this issue is"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2418.637,"endTime":2422.027,"body":"important for all of these reasons and"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2422.207,"endTime":2425.777,"body":"factory farming is actually this, this"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2422.207,"endTime":2425.777,"body":"one issue that kind of intersects with all"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2425.777,"endTime":2427.0370000000003,"body":"these different things that we care about."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2427.417,"endTime":2429.597,"body":"And that's why I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2427.417,"endTime":2429.597,"body":"really, a really good issue for"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2429.597,"endTime":2432.625,"body":"us to focus on and to think about"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2429.597,"endTime":2432.625,"body":"how we can make a difference to."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2433.285,"endTime":2434.065,"body":"Yeah, fair point."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2434.065,"endTime":2439.235,"body":"I remember reading a stat a few years ago"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2434.065,"endTime":2439.235,"body":"now that astounded me, and it was that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2439.355,"endTime":2445.795,"body":"80% of the world's antibiotics are used"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2439.355,"endTime":2445.795,"body":"today to give to animals, and you give"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2445.795,"endTime":2447.535,"body":"it to animals not because they're sick."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2447.965,"endTime":2451.8250000000003,"body":"You give it to animals as a prophylactic"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2447.965,"endTime":2451.8250000000003,"body":"to stop them getting sick, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2451.8250000000003,"endTime":2455.245,"body":"know, so it's, it's a constant"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2451.8250000000003,"endTime":2455.245,"body":"drip feed into their, into their"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2455.245,"endTime":2456.915,"body":"bodies to stop them getting sick."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2457.045,"endTime":2460.265,"body":"Whereas we take antibiotics"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2457.045,"endTime":2460.265,"body":"only when we get sick."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2460.525,"endTime":2464.135,"body":"So it's, it's no wonder that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2460.525,"endTime":2464.135,"body":"there is antibiotic resistance"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2464.165,"endTime":2465.495,"body":"building up amongst the pathogens."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2465.495,"endTime":2466.925,"body":"So yeah, good point."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2467.165,"endTime":2467.555,"body":"Good point."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2468.025,"endTime":2471.415,"body":"Okay, Thom, if people would like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2468.025,"endTime":2471.415,"body":"know more about yourself or any of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2471.425,"endTime":2474.535,"body":"things we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2471.425,"endTime":2474.535,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2475.332,"endTime":2475.512,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2475.512,"endTime":2477.962,"body":"So I think the best place"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2475.512,"endTime":2477.962,"body":"to go is FarmKind's website,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2477.982,"endTime":2480.062,"body":"which is FarmKind Dot Giving."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2480.4320000000002,"endTime":2484.1620000000003,"body":"There you'll find links to things"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2480.4320000000002,"endTime":2484.1620000000003,"body":"like our newsletter, our social media."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2484.292,"endTime":2487.062,"body":"Also check out the stuff we're"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2484.292,"endTime":2487.062,"body":"doing in terms of the charities"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2487.062,"endTime":2491.322,"body":"that we we recommend and see how"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2487.062,"endTime":2491.322,"body":"much impact your donation could go."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2491.322,"endTime":2493.572,"body":"We have lots of little widgets"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2491.322,"endTime":2493.572,"body":"and calculators on there."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2493.572,"endTime":2494.4120000000003,"body":"So you can see like."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2494.752,"endTime":2499.042,"body":"How much good you could do with, with,"},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2494.752,"endTime":2499.042,"body":"you know, your 10 or your 50 or whatever."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2499.042,"endTime":2500.422,"body":"So I think that's the best place to go."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2502.092,"endTime":2503.122,"body":"Thom,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2502.092,"endTime":2503.122,"body":"that's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2503.122,"endTime":2504.752,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2503.122,"endTime":2504.752,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2505.592,"endTime":2506.262,"body":"Thanks very much."},{"speaker":"Thom Norman","startTime":2506.442,"endTime":2506.922,"body":"I've enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2508.715,"endTime":2510.585,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2508.715,"endTime":2510.585,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2511.305,"endTime":2512.415,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2513.275,"endTime":2517.425,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2513.275,"endTime":2517.425,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2517.435,"endTime":2521.3450000000003,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2521.5950000000003,"endTime":2525.0750000000003,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2525.645,"endTime":2529.385,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2525.645,"endTime":2529.385,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2529.405,"endTime":2533.885,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2529.405,"endTime":2533.885,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2534.515,"endTime":2537.475,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2534.515,"endTime":2537.475,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2537.675,"endTime":2540.205,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2537.675,"endTime":2540.205,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2541.295,"endTime":2541.745,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2542.415,"endTime":2543.335,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}