{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":3.59,"endTime":7.82,"body":"The energy transition"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":3.59,"endTime":7.82,"body":"would have happened in any case, even"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":7.83,"endTime":13.28,"body":"without the need to reduce greenhouse"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":7.83,"endTime":13.28,"body":"gas emissions, because basically new"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":13.33,"endTime":17.85,"body":"technologies, the electrification will"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":13.33,"endTime":17.85,"body":"enable us to actually produce energy"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":17.85,"endTime":21.38,"body":"cheaper and better in the future."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":22.964,"endTime":25.184,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":22.964,"endTime":25.184,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.194,"endTime":26.714,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.024,"endTime":31.504,"body":"Welcome to episode 207 of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.024,"endTime":31.504,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, the go to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.504,"endTime":35.704,"body":"show for best practices in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":31.504,"endTime":35.704,"body":"emissions reductions and removals."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.364,"endTime":39.714,"body":"I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and if"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":36.364,"endTime":39.714,"body":"you haven't already, be sure to follow"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.714,"endTime":44.344,"body":"the podcast in your podcast app of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.714,"endTime":44.344,"body":"choice so you never miss a new episode."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.164,"endTime":48.374,"body":"Before we dive in, a huge thanks"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.164,"endTime":48.374,"body":"to our incredible supporters."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.834,"endTime":52.794,"body":"Your backing keeps this podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":48.834,"endTime":52.794,"body":"going and I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":52.964,"endTime":54.064,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.844,"endTime":57.844,"body":"If you'd like to join our community,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.844,"endTime":57.844,"body":"you can support the show for as little"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.844,"endTime":59.474,"body":"as three euros or dollars a month."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.934,"endTime":63.024,"body":"Less than the cost of a cup of coffee,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":59.934,"endTime":63.024,"body":"you just click the support link in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":63.024,"endTime":65.954,"body":"the show notes or visit tinyurl."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.964,"endTime":67.854,"body":"com slash climatepod."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.324,"endTime":73.014,"body":"Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":68.324,"endTime":73.014,"body":"to Jarand Rystad from Rystad Energy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.874,"endTime":77.687,"body":"And in the coming weeks, I'll be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.874,"endTime":77.687,"body":"speaking to Professor Annalisa"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.687,"endTime":78.917,"body":"Bracco from Georgia Tech."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.412,"endTime":81.852,"body":"Ryan Schermerhorn, an IP lawyer."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.852,"endTime":83.662,"body":"We'll be talking about climate patents."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.532,"endTime":88.252,"body":"Dr. Jemma Green, founder and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":84.532,"endTime":88.252,"body":"exec chair of PowerLedger, where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":88.252,"endTime":89.902,"body":"we'd be talking energy autonomy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":90.812,"endTime":93.862,"body":"And Puja Balachander, founder of UpGreen."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.572,"endTime":97.902,"body":"But back to today's show,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":94.572,"endTime":97.902,"body":"and as I mentioned on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":97.902,"endTime":99.812,"body":"show today, we have Jarand."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":100.302,"endTime":102.262,"body":"Jarand, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":102.262,"endTime":103.842,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":104.183,"endTime":108.313,"body":"yes, I'm Jarand"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":104.183,"endTime":108.313,"body":"Rystad, education as a physicist but"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":108.363,"endTime":111.083,"body":"started Rystad Energy 21 years ago."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":111.133,"endTime":116.313,"body":"So we are a global company, 830"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":111.133,"endTime":116.313,"body":"employees, 37 offices all over the world."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":116.733,"endTime":120.123,"body":"And we are basically analyzing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":116.733,"endTime":120.123,"body":"the global energy system."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":120.328,"endTime":121.828,"body":"Every single element of it."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":122.068,"endTime":123.168,"body":"So yeah, that's me."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":124.343,"endTime":125.423,"body":"Okay, fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":125.723,"endTime":129.883,"body":"And Jarand, talk to me a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":125.723,"endTime":129.883,"body":"little bit about Rystad Energy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":130.213,"endTime":131.503,"body":"Why did you set it up?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.253,"endTime":135.513,"body":"Who are your clients and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.253,"endTime":135.513,"body":"what is it you do for them?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":136.118,"endTime":136.468,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":136.978,"endTime":141.348,"body":"Well, I had eight years in McKinsey"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":136.978,"endTime":141.348,"body":"working on energy related questions."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":142.353,"endTime":146.603,"body":"And I used a lot of energy data,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":142.353,"endTime":146.603,"body":"especially within the oil and gas space."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":147.143,"endTime":151.493,"body":"But I found myself struggling"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":147.143,"endTime":151.493,"body":"to get that data to be precise"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":151.493,"endTime":153.463,"body":"enough to describe the future."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":153.973,"endTime":158.223,"body":"Because doing historical look back"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":153.973,"endTime":158.223,"body":"analysis, I saw that what we said five"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":158.223,"endTime":161.453,"body":"years ago and ten years ago was very"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":158.223,"endTime":161.453,"body":"different from what actually happened."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":162.135,"endTime":165.225,"body":"And then since I have a background"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":162.135,"endTime":165.225,"body":"in physics six, I'm also statistics."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":165.225,"endTime":169.261,"body":"And as a computer programmer I, I"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":165.225,"endTime":169.261,"body":"saw that it would be possible to, to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":169.62,"endTime":172.92,"body":"change the data, the assumptions to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":169.62,"endTime":172.92,"body":"make it fit better with the future."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":172.97,"endTime":176.78,"body":"And I started to develop a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":172.97,"endTime":176.78,"body":"algorithms to do that within McKinsey."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":176.8,"endTime":179.71,"body":"And I said, let's make a global database"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":176.8,"endTime":179.71,"body":"for all the energy in the world."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":179.71,"endTime":181.99,"body":"And they said, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":179.71,"endTime":181.99,"body":"don't, you're too optimistic."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":181.99,"endTime":183.46,"body":"This is completely unrealistic."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":183.93,"endTime":184.74,"body":"We cannot do that."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":184.74,"endTime":186.9,"body":"So then I thought, okay,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":184.74,"endTime":186.9,"body":"lemme do that myself."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":187.76,"endTime":191.2,"body":"And to use that as a foundation"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":187.76,"endTime":191.2,"body":"for consulting and advisory"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":191.2,"endTime":192.53,"body":"to the energy companies."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":192.75,"endTime":194.02,"body":"So that was the background for this."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":194.48,"endTime":197.42,"body":"And I thought it would take four"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":194.48,"endTime":197.42,"body":"months to develop this database."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":197.42,"endTime":200.65,"body":"It took me four years, but we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":197.42,"endTime":200.65,"body":"worked as consultants all the way."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":200.65,"endTime":202.56,"body":"So we had the self financing of this."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":203.207,"endTime":208.417,"body":"Since then we have been expanding this"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":203.207,"endTime":208.417,"body":"from from oil and gas to, as I said, wind"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":208.417,"endTime":214.547,"body":"solar, batteries hydropower, every single"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":208.417,"endTime":214.547,"body":"energy form, refineries, storage and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":214.557,"endTime":219.987,"body":"use of energy, et cetera, and to be very"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":214.557,"endTime":219.987,"body":"bottom up, have all the data basically,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":219.987,"endTime":224.877,"body":"and based on bottom up data, try to say"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":219.987,"endTime":224.877,"body":"something meaningful about the future."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":225.377,"endTime":227.877,"body":"Trade off between the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":225.377,"endTime":227.877,"body":"different costs, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":229.477,"endTime":229.807,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":229.807,"endTime":233.937,"body":"And who would be a typical client and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":229.807,"endTime":233.937,"body":"what problems are you solving for them?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":234.337,"endTime":234.657,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":234.757,"endTime":238.377,"body":"So our typical clients, they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":234.757,"endTime":238.377,"body":"are subscribing to our services."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":238.907,"endTime":242.327,"body":"So that's all the large"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":238.907,"endTime":242.327,"body":"energy companies of the world."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":242.327,"endTime":243.517,"body":"You can name any one of them."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":243.517,"endTime":248.927,"body":"That would be our clients, but also"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":243.517,"endTime":248.927,"body":"investors into energy,  the supplier"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":248.967,"endTime":254.657,"body":"companies into the energy supply chains"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":248.967,"endTime":254.657,"body":"and also governments and institutions."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":254.707,"endTime":257.547,"body":"So I think if you have been on"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":254.707,"endTime":257.547,"body":"energy seminars or whatever, you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":257.557,"endTime":261.752,"body":"will see that in the lower left"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":257.557,"endTime":261.752,"body":"corner source the riser Energy."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":261.752,"endTime":263.082,"body":"That's something we'll find very often."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":264.557,"endTime":264.937,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":264.967,"endTime":265.357,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":265.857,"endTime":270.627,"body":"And, you know, with your background in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":265.857,"endTime":270.627,"body":"physics and strategy, what's, do you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":270.647,"endTime":275.587,"body":"think the most important lesson you've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":270.647,"endTime":275.587,"body":"learned about tackling big systemic"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":275.637,"endTime":277.417,"body":"challenges like the energy transition?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":278.832,"endTime":280.675,"body":"Ah, that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":278.832,"endTime":280.675,"body":"was a big question."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":280.675,"endTime":285.718,"body":"But, but I think that  the world is"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":280.675,"endTime":285.718,"body":"changing all the time but more in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":285.818,"endTime":290.208,"body":"a few steps where we get disruptive"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":285.818,"endTime":290.208,"body":"technologies coming in, meaning new"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":290.208,"endTime":294.873,"body":"technologies that has the potential"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":290.208,"endTime":294.873,"body":"to be cheaper and better and basically"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":294.923,"endTime":298.413,"body":"taking over the entire old technologies."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":298.663,"endTime":303.073,"body":"So typically technologies are stabilizing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":298.663,"endTime":303.073,"body":"at a certain level until you get these"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":303.073,"endTime":305.143,"body":"new disruptive changes to happen."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":305.573,"endTime":309.863,"body":"And, and one example is the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":305.573,"endTime":309.863,"body":"media and telecom revolution."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":310.233,"endTime":317.103,"body":"You know, until 1990 it was a quite"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":310.233,"endTime":317.103,"body":"stable media picture with newspapers,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":317.283,"endTime":322.07,"body":"television, and then data computer"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":317.283,"endTime":322.07,"body":"communication or something else."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":322.65,"endTime":326.99,"body":"But then all of this was merged"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":322.65,"endTime":326.99,"body":"into completely new platforms with"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":327.03,"endTime":328.605,"body":"internet and with the smartphone."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":329.315,"endTime":333.565,"body":"So this is a good illustration that all"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":329.315,"endTime":333.565,"body":"the business models changed, et cetera"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":334.025,"endTime":338.215,"body":"due to this disruptive technologies"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":334.025,"endTime":338.215,"body":"coming in there and just now we are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":338.215,"endTime":341.365,"body":"facing similar changes in the energy Uh."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.512,"endTime":348.072,"body":"And there are several"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":343.512,"endTime":348.072,"body":"reasons behind the energy transition,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":348.082,"endTime":350.332,"body":"obviously and why it's happening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":351.432,"endTime":354.142,"body":"One of the big ones is obviously"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":351.432,"endTime":354.142,"body":"climate change, and this is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":354.142,"endTime":355.702,"body":"the Climate Confident podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":356.632,"endTime":364.637,"body":"Do you think that we are changing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":356.632,"endTime":364.637,"body":"our energy systems fast enough to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":364.687,"endTime":367.477,"body":"meet the targets that we've set"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":364.687,"endTime":367.477,"body":"for ourselves for climate change."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":368.533,"endTime":368.813,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":369.213,"endTime":371.863,"body":"First, let me take one step back"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":369.213,"endTime":371.863,"body":"then because you said that yes, the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":371.863,"endTime":378.083,"body":"energy transition is about getting"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":371.863,"endTime":378.083,"body":"down the greenhouse gas emissions."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":378.68,"endTime":381.35,"body":"I think yes, that is one"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":378.68,"endTime":381.35,"body":"of the important drivers."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":382.1,"endTime":386.75,"body":"But I say that actually, the energy"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":382.1,"endTime":386.75,"body":"transition would have happened in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":386.82,"endTime":391.87,"body":"any case, even without the need to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":386.82,"endTime":391.87,"body":"reduce greenhouse gas emissions,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":392.21,"endTime":396.69,"body":"because basically new technologies,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":392.21,"endTime":396.69,"body":"the electrification will enable"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":396.69,"endTime":401.66,"body":"us to actually produce energy"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":396.69,"endTime":401.66,"body":"cheaper and better in the future."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":402.112,"endTime":407.722,"body":"For all other technological reasons"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":402.112,"endTime":407.722,"body":"also that all that only avoiding"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":408.062,"endTime":411.432,"body":"emissions of methane and especially CO2."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":412.172,"endTime":413.572,"body":"So there's several drivers."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":413.672,"endTime":417.692,"body":"And then the question is with respect"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":413.672,"endTime":417.692,"body":"to global emissions of CO2, are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":417.692,"endTime":420.502,"body":"we getting those fast enough down?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":420.587,"endTime":424.657,"body":"To get to the different targets of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":420.587,"endTime":424.657,"body":"the greenhouse gas budgets that we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":424.667,"endTime":430.292,"body":"have and it's actually very, because"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":424.667,"endTime":430.292,"body":"originally the Paris agreement was to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":430.292,"endTime":432.892,"body":"get below two degrees global warming."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":434.192,"endTime":439.999,"body":"And that is quite robust that is"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":434.192,"endTime":439.999,"body":"quite big carbon budget that will"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":440.359,"endTime":442.409,"body":"be allowed to get below two degrees."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":442.729,"endTime":447.319,"body":"But then afterwards, the target were"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":442.729,"endTime":447.319,"body":"adjusted to get down to 1.5 degree."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":447.859,"endTime":453.429,"body":"And then the budget is only 500 gigaton"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":447.859,"endTime":453.429,"body":"for the rest of the century, from"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":453.429,"endTime":456.389,"body":"2020, which is very little actually."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":456.739,"endTime":460.639,"body":"So for two degrees, yes, it's"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":456.739,"endTime":460.639,"body":"going more than fast enough."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":460.669,"endTime":464.319,"body":"I think for the 1.5 degree,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":460.669,"endTime":464.319,"body":"it's not going fast enough."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":464.849,"endTime":467.594,"body":"So we are in between those two limits."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":468.399,"endTime":473.899,"body":"And you need to be a quite negative"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":468.399,"endTime":473.899,"body":"view actually on the future to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":473.899,"endTime":476.999,"body":"land at about two degrees, I think."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":477.469,"endTime":482.519,"body":"So with the pace we see now in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":477.469,"endTime":482.519,"body":"solar, wind and batteries, the three"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":482.529,"endTime":488.959,"body":"most important technologies, we are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":482.529,"endTime":488.959,"body":"trending towards below two degrees."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":490.229,"endTime":495.029,"body":"But the nuances and the fine tuning here"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":490.229,"endTime":495.029,"body":"is how much below and with which pace."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":495.029,"endTime":496.229,"body":"And maybe we can come back to that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":497.307,"endTime":497.707,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":497.717,"endTime":499.197,"body":"So talk to me a little bit about that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":499.197,"endTime":500.807,"body":"Let's, let's, let's dig into that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":501.317,"endTime":506.137,"body":"How much below the two degrees do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":501.317,"endTime":506.137,"body":"you think we will land at and why?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":506.475,"endTime":507.075,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":507.075,"endTime":511.959,"body":"I think with the, current pace and also"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":507.075,"endTime":511.959,"body":"taking into consideration all of this"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":512.229,"endTime":516.639,"body":"kind of maybe negative news for the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":512.229,"endTime":516.639,"body":"green shift that we have got recently"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":516.669,"endTime":521.164,"body":"with, you know a new administration"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":516.669,"endTime":521.164,"body":"in, in the US not really prioritising"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":521.674,"endTime":523.754,"body":"the green shift to put it mildly."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":524.304,"endTime":528.304,"body":"These are things that that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":524.304,"endTime":528.304,"body":"will slow down the green shift."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":528.744,"endTime":533.844,"body":"But however, looking at the actual"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":528.744,"endTime":533.844,"body":"implementation of, for example, new solar"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":533.844,"endTime":536.314,"body":"last year is beating any record, you know."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":536.624,"endTime":541.942,"body":"Just China, for example, they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":536.624,"endTime":541.942,"body":"had a target of getting to 1300"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":542.002,"endTime":544.482,"body":"gigawatt renewables by 2030."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":546.022,"endTime":549.172,"body":"They reached that target 2024."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":549.862,"endTime":551.982,"body":"So they were actually"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":549.862,"endTime":551.982,"body":"six years ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":553.172,"endTime":557.192,"body":"So we are seeing things going"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":553.172,"endTime":557.192,"body":"slower and things going faster."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":557.357,"endTime":564.787,"body":"But if we assume a similar pace as we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":557.357,"endTime":564.787,"body":"have seen in absolute value in added"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":564.837,"endTime":568.88,"body":"new technologies then we are tracking"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":564.837,"endTime":568.88,"body":"towards just below two degrees."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":570.12,"endTime":574.13,"body":"If we see an accelerated pace,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":570.12,"endTime":574.13,"body":"more like an S curve, we are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":574.13,"endTime":576.46,"body":"tracking well below two degrees."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":577.088,"endTime":577.508,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":578.798,"endTime":579.038,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":579.258,"endTime":583.683,"body":"China has a track record of setting"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":579.258,"endTime":583.683,"body":"extremely ambitious goals for itself"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":583.753,"endTime":586.723,"body":"and then beating those goals admirably."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":587.613,"endTime":594.143,"body":"And we've seen, as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":587.613,"endTime":594.143,"body":"a roll back on ambitions in the US."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":595.793,"endTime":599.183,"body":"What do you think are the long"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":595.793,"endTime":599.183,"body":"term implications of that for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":599.183,"endTime":600.953,"body":"the economies of both nations?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":600.953,"endTime":604.903,"body":"I mean, I got to think that if we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":600.953,"endTime":604.903,"body":"are going into an energy transition,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":604.923,"endTime":610.293,"body":"which we are de facto, it means"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":604.923,"endTime":610.293,"body":"that the energy systems globally"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":610.293,"endTime":612.183,"body":"will all transition over time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":612.593,"endTime":617.003,"body":"It looks like China is well ahead of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":612.593,"endTime":617.003,"body":"that curve in terms of developing the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":617.003,"endTime":619.023,"body":"technologies to enable that transition."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":619.633,"endTime":623.323,"body":"Whereas it looks like the US is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":619.633,"endTime":623.323,"body":"rolling back and going to sit back"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":623.353,"endTime":625.593,"body":"and let China take over that market."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":625.613,"endTime":626.783,"body":"Would that be a fair comment do you think?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":626.783,"endTime":630.442,"body":"Yes, I think"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":626.783,"endTime":630.442,"body":"what you just said is correct."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":630.672,"endTime":635.912,"body":"You know that to own the future, you need"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":630.672,"endTime":635.912,"body":"to own the technologies of the future."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":636.422,"endTime":641.932,"body":"And yes, China is completely dominant"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":636.422,"endTime":641.932,"body":"in the green value chains or, or, you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":641.932,"endTime":644.122,"body":"know, solar especially, and batteries."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":644.472,"endTime":649.272,"body":"They are a complete dominant are having"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":644.472,"endTime":649.272,"body":"the leading technologies to produce it"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":649.572,"endTime":652.092,"body":"and also the leading products on this."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":652.532,"endTime":658.692,"body":"And this is the future in any case,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":652.532,"endTime":658.692,"body":"there's no no reasons why would we would"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":658.692,"endTime":662.552,"body":"over the next 20 years what should I"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":658.692,"endTime":662.552,"body":"say shut in the electrification of the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":662.552,"endTime":667.262,"body":"world and the renewabilisation of the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":662.552,"endTime":667.262,"body":"world and go back to fossil fuel simply"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":667.262,"endTime":669.092,"body":"because it will be much more expensive."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":669.872,"endTime":676.872,"body":"So solar, wind and batteries are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":669.872,"endTime":676.872,"body":"much cheaper than basically coal gas"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":676.932,"endTime":682.982,"body":"and oil as  a system to provide the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":676.932,"endTime":682.982,"body":"energy the world is needing long term."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":683.492,"endTime":687.092,"body":"But of course, we have a lot of install"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":683.492,"endTime":687.092,"body":"based in the fossil fuel system."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":687.487,"endTime":692.087,"body":"And the pace of replacing that installed"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":687.487,"endTime":692.087,"body":"base with something new is, is really"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":692.087,"endTime":695.917,"body":"what will determine kind of the pace"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":692.087,"endTime":695.917,"body":"of the energy transition and, and some,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":696.437,"endTime":700.217,"body":"in some cases, if you do it too fast"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":696.437,"endTime":700.217,"body":"you might get stranded asset and you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":700.217,"endTime":701.977,"body":"might get not the optimal solution."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":702.417,"endTime":705.577,"body":"So it's not that you should immediately,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":702.417,"endTime":705.577,"body":"you cannot immediately shut down the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":705.577,"endTime":708.837,"body":"fossil fuel system either, but in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":705.577,"endTime":708.837,"body":"that sense, back to your question."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":709.077,"endTime":712.137,"body":"With a country kind of betting on"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":709.077,"endTime":712.137,"body":"the past or betting on the future,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":712.177,"endTime":716.607,"body":"of course, it will be much better"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":712.177,"endTime":716.607,"body":"off betting on the future, but I"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":716.607,"endTime":720.797,"body":"think it remains to be seen what will"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":716.607,"endTime":720.797,"body":"actually happen in the United States."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":721.352,"endTime":726.139,"body":"Because still, you know, a state like"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":721.352,"endTime":726.139,"body":"Texas, where people have a tradition"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":726.139,"endTime":732.419,"body":"to be very commercial, looking at"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":726.139,"endTime":732.419,"body":"what is really a value creation, still"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":732.449,"endTime":738.529,"body":"there, that's where we see the fastest"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":732.449,"endTime":738.529,"body":"growth of renewables in US, faster"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":738.529,"endTime":742.309,"body":"than in California at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":738.529,"endTime":742.309,"body":"simply because it is very competitive."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":743.004,"endTime":748.274,"body":"So I think that the economy will be"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":743.004,"endTime":748.274,"body":"a very important driver of also the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":748.284,"endTime":750.204,"body":"development in the United States."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":750.554,"endTime":754.534,"body":"So, the green shift will not stop up"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":750.554,"endTime":754.534,"body":"even if you have an administration"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":754.604,"endTime":756.524,"body":"that is not a promoter of it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":757.468,"endTime":758.268,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":758.308,"endTime":761.688,"body":"China, of course, have a huge lead as well"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":758.308,"endTime":761.688,"body":"in the electrification of transportation."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":761.689,"endTime":765.398,"body":"I mean, they have more electric buses"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":761.689,"endTime":765.398,"body":"than the rest of the world combined,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":766.098,"endTime":772.908,"body":"more EVs, and they're also electrifying"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":766.098,"endTime":772.908,"body":"shipping as well, to an extent, there's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":772.978,"endTime":775.448,"body":"more electric ships coming out of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":772.978,"endTime":775.448,"body":"China than anywhere else as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":775.458,"endTime":780.248,"body":"So it's, it's not just the renewables, but"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":775.458,"endTime":780.248,"body":"it's a combination of the two, which are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":780.248,"endTime":781.578,"body":"going to make a huge difference as well."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":782.337,"endTime":782.637,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":783.237,"endTime":788.872,"body":"And, and You know, basically when we are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":783.237,"endTime":788.872,"body":"summarising the technologies needed to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":789.322,"endTime":794.612,"body":"mitigate all emissions we are pointing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":789.322,"endTime":794.612,"body":"at three groups of technologies which"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":794.612,"endTime":796.562,"body":"can be summarised in three main tasks."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":796.832,"endTime":800.865,"body":"The first task is to decarbonise"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":796.832,"endTime":800.865,"body":"the electricity system."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":801.67,"endTime":804.76,"body":"The second task is then"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":801.67,"endTime":804.76,"body":"to electrify everything."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":805.3,"endTime":809.63,"body":"And the third task is then"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":805.3,"endTime":809.63,"body":"to get rid of the rest."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":809.98,"endTime":816.064,"body":"And in terms of emission reduction these"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":809.98,"endTime":816.064,"body":"tasks to put it simply is 40%, 40%,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":816.344,"endTime":822.067,"body":"20% of the current emissions And if"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":816.344,"endTime":822.067,"body":"you look at electricity historically,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":822.327,"endTime":827.567,"body":"it's actually been the sector with the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":822.327,"endTime":827.567,"body":"highest emission per kilowatt over."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":828.232,"endTime":832.722,"body":"So meaning that if you start to electrify,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":828.232,"endTime":832.722,"body":"you will increase emissions globally."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":833.772,"endTime":841.272,"body":"So it's only when electricity on average"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":833.772,"endTime":841.272,"body":"have less emissions than the typical"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":841.292,"endTime":845.512,"body":"consumption of fossil fuel by the end"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":841.292,"endTime":845.512,"body":"user from non electric applications"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":845.672,"endTime":847.342,"body":"that it really makes sense to electrify."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":847.972,"endTime":853.637,"body":"And in that sense, it's not a big"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":847.972,"endTime":853.637,"body":"problem that you are a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":853.637,"endTime":858.547,"body":"slower on the electrification as"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":853.637,"endTime":858.547,"body":"soon as you have a high pace on the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":858.927,"endTime":860.887,"body":"decarbonising, the electricity system."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":861.097,"endTime":865.127,"body":"And this is really what China as a"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":861.097,"endTime":865.127,"body":"step one still but in parallel they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":865.127,"endTime":866.707,"body":"are doing electrification as well."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":866.857,"endTime":871.337,"body":"But globally also we see that the first"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":866.857,"endTime":871.337,"body":"task, which is the most important task"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":871.337,"endTime":875.357,"body":"to be done first, is also the one that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":871.337,"endTime":875.357,"body":"has the highest pace at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":875.707,"endTime":877.597,"body":"which makes me slightly less worried."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":877.897,"endTime":883.477,"body":"About some of these kind of negative"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":877.897,"endTime":883.477,"body":"signals for a slowdown in electrification"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":883.677,"endTime":887.947,"body":"and especially also in this get rid"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":883.677,"endTime":887.947,"body":"of the rest, which is carbon capture"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":887.947,"endTime":893.407,"body":"and storage and use of hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":887.947,"endTime":893.407,"body":"and biomass as a fuel, for example."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":893.802,"endTime":896.463,"body":"We'll, we'll come back to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":893.802,"endTime":896.463,"body":"those in a second, but just want to dig"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.463,"endTime":902.853,"body":"into China one little bit more because I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":896.463,"endTime":902.853,"body":"know, for example, if I read correctly,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":902.863,"endTime":909.183,"body":"China rolled out more renewables in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":902.863,"endTime":909.183,"body":"first 11 months of 2024 than America"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":909.193,"endTime":914.043,"body":"did in all of its history, just to give"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":909.193,"endTime":914.043,"body":"people an idea of the scale of renewables"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":914.073,"endTime":915.563,"body":"that are being rolled out in China."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":916.273,"endTime":919.873,"body":"But on the other hand, China is also"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":916.273,"endTime":919.873,"body":"rolling out a lot of coal as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":920.383,"endTime":922.303,"body":"So how do you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":922.603,"endTime":923.733,"body":"square that circle?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":924.117,"endTime":928.697,"body":"yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":924.117,"endTime":928.697,"body":"China has over the last 10 15 years"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":928.707,"endTime":932.524,"body":"still taken a lot of development"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":928.707,"endTime":932.524,"body":"decision for the power plants."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":932.944,"endTime":937.334,"body":"And those are now being"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":932.944,"endTime":937.334,"body":"executed and completed."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":937.899,"endTime":942.969,"body":"It's not many new decisions at all taken"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":937.899,"endTime":942.969,"body":"now by coal fired power plants in China."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":943.312,"endTime":949.622,"body":"But they are typically now used less and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":943.312,"endTime":949.622,"body":"less so they're used as a a backup of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":949.682,"endTime":951.642,"body":"renewable energy systems many places."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":952.077,"endTime":956.307,"body":"So I think it's also, you know, you saw"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":952.077,"endTime":956.307,"body":"the same in India that they also approved"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":956.357,"endTime":960.207,"body":"two new coal fired power plants, but"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":956.357,"endTime":960.207,"body":"explicitly made an argument that that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":960.227,"endTime":962.677,"body":"is what we need for the monsoon season."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":962.907,"endTime":968.557,"body":"And some of the reasons why to enable"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":962.907,"endTime":968.557,"body":"a renewable energy system to be to give"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":968.557,"endTime":973.107,"body":"power 100%, you need some thermal backup"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":968.557,"endTime":973.107,"body":"in addition to the battery backup."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":973.247,"endTime":977.257,"body":"So partly it's the backup part of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":973.247,"endTime":977.257,"body":"it, and partly it's energy security."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":977.677,"endTime":982.317,"body":"But we see that the utilisation of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":977.677,"endTime":982.317,"body":"coal fired power plants is going down,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":982.477,"endTime":986.907,"body":"so we shouldn't be too worried about"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":982.477,"endTime":986.907,"body":"this on behalf of the climate, because"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":987.197,"endTime":992.031,"body":"energy security is still a higher"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":987.197,"endTime":992.031,"body":"priority than only looking at emissions."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":992.366,"endTime":996.516,"body":"But coal will only be competitive"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":992.366,"endTime":996.516,"body":"when the renewables is not able to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":996.516,"endTime":998.396,"body":"deliver due to the weather situation."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":998.886,"endTime":1004.386,"body":"And when the weather situation is as it"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":998.886,"endTime":1004.386,"body":"usually is, renewable will really be the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1004.386,"endTime":1006.276,"body":"electrons that is coming to the market."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1006.396,"endTime":1009.436,"body":"But there just now is a lack of storage."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1009.994,"endTime":1016.174,"body":"So in China, in the northern and the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1009.994,"endTime":1016.174,"body":"western regions, they had more than 5"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1016.174,"endTime":1020.984,"body":"percent curtailment in many of these"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1016.174,"endTime":1020.984,"body":"regions of renewable power last year,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1021.184,"endTime":1025.954,"body":"meaning that they just had to give away"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1021.184,"endTime":1025.954,"body":"the power or stop actually curtail the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1026.607,"endTime":1028.327,"body":"power plants because it was too much."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1028.767,"endTime":1034.067,"body":"So just know they're also implementing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1028.767,"endTime":1034.067,"body":"a lot of battery storage, or providing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1034.067,"endTime":1035.567,"body":"more flexible thermal storage."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1036.207,"endTime":1038.357,"body":"Coal is, honestly, it's not very flexible."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1038.357,"endTime":1042.644,"body":"You can do about 50% flexibility,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1038.357,"endTime":1042.644,"body":"while, for example, gas power"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1042.644,"endTime":1044.314,"body":"plants, you have 100% flexibility"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1045.354,"endTime":1047.273,"body":"So why aren't they"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1045.354,"endTime":1047.273,"body":"rolling out more gas instead of coal?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1048.544,"endTime":1050.714,"body":"Oh, okay, because"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1048.544,"endTime":1050.714,"body":"gas is more expensive for them."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1050.779,"endTime":1054.879,"body":"Know But they are actually also ramping"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1050.779,"endTime":1054.879,"body":"up quite much gas power plants now and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1055.569,"endTime":1059.679,"body":"gas power plants has been trending down"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1055.569,"endTime":1059.679,"body":"for many years, but just over last,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1059.839,"endTime":1064.137,"body":"especially in America, but also other"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1059.839,"endTime":1064.137,"body":"places increased again because because"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1064.167,"endTime":1068.507,"body":"we see that they, they're efficient"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1064.167,"endTime":1068.507,"body":"to stabilize  power supply in, in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1068.507,"endTime":1070.037,"body":"the intermittent of, of renewables."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1071.057,"endTime":1072.477,"body":"It's one of the drivers."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1073.352,"endTime":1078.722,"body":"What would you say is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1073.352,"endTime":1078.722,"body":"the single most overlooked challenge"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1078.992,"endTime":1080.462,"body":"in the energy transition right now?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1083.111,"endTime":1084.001,"body":"over the challenge."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1111.611,"endTime":1118.721,"body":"I think, I mean, at least the one that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1111.611,"endTime":1118.721,"body":"are tracking is that is slowly that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1118.771,"endTime":1122.961,"body":"a, for example, aviation aviation is"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1118.771,"endTime":1122.961,"body":"the sector that will grow the most."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1123.101,"endTime":1129.029,"body":"And still a sustainable aviation"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1123.101,"endTime":1129.029,"body":"fuel is a very small percentage"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1129.069,"endTime":1130.529,"body":"of current consumption."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1130.529,"endTime":1134.9940000000001,"body":"And so this is at least one"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1130.529,"endTime":1134.9940000000001,"body":"thing that we haven't really"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1134.9940000000001,"endTime":1138.384,"body":"seen technologies that are up and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1134.9940000000001,"endTime":1138.384,"body":"running and are already competitive."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1138.434,"endTime":1141.0040000000001,"body":"We are far from being there in aviation."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1141.839,"endTime":1146.659,"body":"Very slightly closer to be there"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1141.839,"endTime":1146.659,"body":"in shipping because ammonia is is"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1146.8490000000002,"endTime":1151.6390000000001,"body":"promising For short sea shipping"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1146.8490000000002,"endTime":1151.6390000000001,"body":"electricity has more potential than"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1151.6490000000001,"endTime":1153.3990000000001,"body":"we thought only a few years back."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1154.8590000000002,"endTime":1159.919,"body":"In steelmaking, we also"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1154.8590000000002,"endTime":1159.919,"body":"see progress on the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1159.979,"endTime":1162.279,"body":"technologies that could be provided."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1162.3690000000001,"endTime":1170.059,"body":"But also yeah, so I see a lot of solutions"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1162.3690000000001,"endTime":1170.059,"body":"in all sectors, also in all the different"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1170.739,"endTime":1175.689,"body":"energy sectors that are using a lot"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1170.739,"endTime":1175.689,"body":"of energy even high temperature heat."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1176.229,"endTime":1180.919,"body":"Is now a some new technologies that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1176.229,"endTime":1180.919,"body":"can offer electricity based heat up to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1181.809,"endTime":1186.3990000000001,"body":"1800 degrees, which is needed in metal"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1181.809,"endTime":1186.3990000000001,"body":"making etc. But these are less progress."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1186.3990000000001,"endTime":1191.329,"body":"So at least that what I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1186.3990000000001,"endTime":1191.329,"body":"is this last 20% which is get"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1191.6190000000001,"endTime":1195.1090000000002,"body":"rid of the rest of the emissions"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1191.6190000000001,"endTime":1195.1090000000002,"body":"through non electrical technologies."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1195.681,"endTime":1200.3970000000002,"body":"is maybe most overlooked, but still"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1195.681,"endTime":1200.3970000000002,"body":"a lot of very positive research,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1200.4370000000001,"endTime":1201.9070000000002,"body":"but we are more on the pilot stage."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1201.9070000000002,"endTime":1203.617,"body":"They're less mature technologies."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1205.364,"endTime":1209.794,"body":"Okay, and when we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1205.364,"endTime":1209.794,"body":"think about solar, one of the big"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1209.804,"endTime":1213.194,"body":"arguments against it is it's land use."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1213.664,"endTime":1218.8700000000001,"body":"How do we resolve the conflict between"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1213.664,"endTime":1218.8700000000001,"body":"energy needs and preserving land use?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1219.414,"endTime":1219.954,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1220.454,"endTime":1220.7540000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1220.7540000000001,"endTime":1223.5240000000001,"body":"I will give you a few positive"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1220.7540000000001,"endTime":1223.5240000000001,"body":"kind of developments over the last"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1223.5240000000001,"endTime":1224.7240000000002,"body":"year that will illustrate this."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1224.924,"endTime":1229.594,"body":"One is the concept of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1224.924,"endTime":1229.594,"body":"agrivoltaics, meaning combining"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1229.634,"endTime":1232.464,"body":"agriculture with solar farms."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1233.2640000000001,"endTime":1236.554,"body":"And if you design it the proper"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1233.2640000000001,"endTime":1236.554,"body":"way, you can actually even"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1236.564,"endTime":1239.2540000000001,"body":"increase the yield of the farming."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1239.354,"endTime":1242.294,"body":"Still have a solar production"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1239.354,"endTime":1242.294,"body":"at the same acreage."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1242.9940000000001,"endTime":1246.714,"body":"And we know of course that farmlands"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1242.9940000000001,"endTime":1246.714,"body":"is abundant all over the world."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1246.874,"endTime":1252.5410000000002,"body":"So if you're able to, combine it"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1246.874,"endTime":1252.5410000000002,"body":"with solar it is a lot of acreage"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1252.631,"endTime":1257.931,"body":"available and in some regions, it,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1252.631,"endTime":1257.931,"body":"it is not only kind of a compromise."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1258.5610000000001,"endTime":1262.941,"body":"It's even an enabler  for crops,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1258.5610000000001,"endTime":1262.941,"body":"especially in the desert, desert"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1262.941,"endTime":1267.461,"body":"like areas, very hot, very high solar"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1262.941,"endTime":1267.461,"body":"radiation, too much for anything to grow."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1267.8210000000001,"endTime":1273.521,"body":"But in the shadow of a solar panel, you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1267.8210000000001,"endTime":1273.521,"body":"can actually have farms working in regions"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1273.5610000000001,"endTime":1275.421,"body":"like the Middle East or North Africa."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1276.181,"endTime":1280.991,"body":"So this is one thing that where"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1276.181,"endTime":1280.991,"body":"we see a lot of positive news from"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1280.991,"endTime":1285.5610000000001,"body":"the last year, a lot of piloting"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1280.991,"endTime":1285.5610000000001,"body":"and even some commercial, big, big"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1285.5710000000001,"endTime":1287.101,"body":"commercial projects already happening."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1287.121,"endTime":1290.0510000000002,"body":"Also with also with the cattles,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1287.121,"endTime":1290.0510000000002,"body":"for example, combined with"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1290.3410000000001,"endTime":1295.031,"body":"shadow from solars are increasing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1290.3410000000001,"endTime":1295.031,"body":"the animal welfare actually."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1295.511,"endTime":1296.531,"body":"So some positive as well."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1296.891,"endTime":1301.286,"body":"The other is I just came from"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1296.891,"endTime":1301.286,"body":"Malaysia last week and they told me"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1301.286,"endTime":1308.266,"body":"that for example, a hundred megawatt"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1301.286,"endTime":1308.266,"body":"hydropower plant, they covered it"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1308.656,"endTime":1314.1660000000002,"body":"with only 2% of solar panels on"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1308.656,"endTime":1314.1660000000002,"body":"the acreage producing 50 megawatt."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1314.7160000000001,"endTime":1320.3590000000002,"body":"So all hydropower reservoirs have a"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1314.7160000000001,"endTime":1320.3590000000002,"body":"tremendous potential tenfold, actually,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1320.5220000000002,"endTime":1326.922,"body":"their capacity from using a floating"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1320.5220000000002,"endTime":1326.922,"body":"solar on the top of these reservoirs."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1328.082,"endTime":1330.762,"body":"Not for us in Norway, we have"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1328.082,"endTime":1330.762,"body":"too much snow in the winter,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1330.762,"endTime":1331.982,"body":"so it will not work here."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1332.202,"endTime":1336.0420000000001,"body":"But most places globally where they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1332.202,"endTime":1336.0420000000001,"body":"have a hydropower reservoirs, you can"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1336.0420000000001,"endTime":1338.0320000000002,"body":"actually combine it with floating solar."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1338.642,"endTime":1341.2820000000002,"body":"A third is of course, all"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1338.642,"endTime":1341.2820000000002,"body":"building integrated buildings."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1341.442,"endTime":1345.3590000000002,"body":"You can even have already solar panels"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1341.442,"endTime":1345.3590000000002,"body":"in buildings that are invisible."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1345.971,"endTime":1349.901,"body":"You don't see that the solar panels,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1345.971,"endTime":1349.901,"body":"it is actually still integrated."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1350.421,"endTime":1353.781,"body":"So both vertical and on the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1350.421,"endTime":1353.781,"body":"roof and on the walls and on the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1353.781,"endTime":1356.0910000000001,"body":"horizontal, on the roofs are possible."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1356.5710000000001,"endTime":1360.251,"body":"And the third, and also we have, for"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1356.5710000000001,"endTime":1360.251,"body":"example, covering channels, covering"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1360.251,"endTime":1365.0810000000001,"body":"roads in the railroads, using all"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1360.251,"endTime":1365.0810000000001,"body":"kind of already destroyed nature."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1365.766,"endTime":1367.596,"body":"It's a lot of acreage available like that."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1367.596,"endTime":1369.006,"body":"So we just need to be innovative."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1369.406,"endTime":1372.246,"body":"And then we will find a"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1369.406,"endTime":1372.246,"body":"lot of space available."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1373.204,"endTime":1376.554,"body":"And of course, if you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1373.204,"endTime":1376.554,"body":"covering reservoirs or covering"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1376.584,"endTime":1381.064,"body":"agricultural land, you're also minimising"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1376.584,"endTime":1381.064,"body":"in the agricultural land, you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1381.2540000000001,"endTime":1382.844,"body":"reducing the need for irrigation."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1383.104,"endTime":1387.0240000000001,"body":"And in the reservoirs, you're reducing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1383.104,"endTime":1387.0240000000001,"body":"a lot of the water loss as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1387.064,"endTime":1389.5240000000001,"body":"So it's a, it's a, another win win."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1389.664,"endTime":1389.844,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1389.892,"endTime":1390.832,"body":"Spot on, spot on."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1390.842,"endTime":1391.5720000000001,"body":"Win, win, win."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1391.682,"endTime":1393.442,"body":"Sometimes I think it's more a trade off."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1393.442,"endTime":1395.682,"body":"You have to accept lower yield."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1396.462,"endTime":1400.952,"body":"But other places you can actually even"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1396.462,"endTime":1400.952,"body":"increase the yield and reduce cost also."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1402.924,"endTime":1403.304,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1403.5240000000001,"endTime":1408.7440000000001,"body":"And what about the prospects for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1403.5240000000001,"endTime":1408.7440000000001,"body":"long duration energy storage."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1408.7540000000001,"endTime":1414.1870000000001,"body":"I mean, you talked about using a thermal"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1408.7540000000001,"endTime":1414.1870000000001,"body":"to back up renewables, and batteries"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1414.1870000000001,"endTime":1415.727,"body":"are great, obviously for short term."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1416.1470000000002,"endTime":1417.4470000000001,"body":"But what about the longer term?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1417.627,"endTime":1421.207,"body":"I've seen some some kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1417.627,"endTime":1421.207,"body":"advances and things like sand"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1421.237,"endTime":1422.387,"body":"batteries and things like that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1423.217,"endTime":1426.1570000000002,"body":"Have you seen anything that's that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1423.217,"endTime":1426.1570000000002,"body":"looks promising for long duration?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1426.461,"endTime":1427.411,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1428.8110000000001,"endTime":1433.5040000000001,"body":"As you mentioned, batteries are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1428.8110000000001,"endTime":1433.5040000000001,"body":"very good for day cycles, even two"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1433.5040000000001,"endTime":1436.644,"body":"times a day cycles, then they get"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1433.5040000000001,"endTime":1436.644,"body":"very high capital productivity."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1437.0140000000001,"endTime":1444.6960000000001,"body":"But for the longer wind cycles, that are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1437.0140000000001,"endTime":1444.6960000000001,"body":"typically four days long, and you may"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1444.6960000000001,"endTime":1449.826,"body":"be consuming in another four days, then"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1444.6960000000001,"endTime":1449.826,"body":"batteries are not efficient, but you have"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1449.826,"endTime":1455.316,"body":"a new generation of flow batteries that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1449.826,"endTime":1455.316,"body":"could be sufficient, just very big water"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1455.316,"endTime":1460.846,"body":"tanks with some special ions in that water"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1455.316,"endTime":1460.846,"body":"tank and you can store for longer term."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1461.256,"endTime":1467.1660000000002,"body":"Heat storage, like you mentioned, in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1461.256,"endTime":1467.1660000000002,"body":"sand, but also in rocks, for example."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1467.776,"endTime":1472.026,"body":"I just I'm sitting here in Oslo and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1467.776,"endTime":1472.026,"body":"actually looking out of the window and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1472.026,"endTime":1475.826,"body":"then I can look forward to the walls"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1472.026,"endTime":1475.826,"body":"towards the hills where we're having"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1475.836,"endTime":1478.9360000000001,"body":"the waste incineration plant in Oslo."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1479.4560000000001,"endTime":1483.142,"body":"We are seeing that the heat is stored."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1483.457,"endTime":1488.627,"body":"It's taken from a very hot rock that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1483.457,"endTime":1488.627,"body":"was heated in the summer because during,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1489.6570000000002,"endTime":1497.087,"body":"during the summer you have to burn all"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1489.6570000000002,"endTime":1497.087,"body":"the waste and then nobody's asking for"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1497.087,"endTime":1498.6870000000001,"body":"that heat for the district heating."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1499.1670000000001,"endTime":1506.367,"body":"So they are heating up the rock below this"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1499.1670000000001,"endTime":1506.367,"body":"plant to more than 100 degrees and that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1506.477,"endTime":1510.0220000000002,"body":"heat remains in the rock until the winter."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1510.602,"endTime":1517.6860000000001,"body":"So in the winter, you can take that heat"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1510.602,"endTime":1517.6860000000001,"body":"up to the district heating and distribute"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1517.6860000000001,"endTime":1520.086,"body":"it to the city and this is done today."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1520.6760000000002,"endTime":1522.846,"body":"And so this is a big implementation of it."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1523.281,"endTime":1527.661,"body":"We also have smaller implementation"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1523.281,"endTime":1527.661,"body":"like just another school in Norway."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1527.794,"endTime":1530.384,"body":"They have just implemented"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1527.794,"endTime":1530.384,"body":"this for three years."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1530.5240000000001,"endTime":1533.464,"body":"So they got some usage experience now."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1534.0140000000001,"endTime":1538.7340000000002,"body":"And they are having water filled"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1534.0140000000001,"endTime":1538.7340000000002,"body":"panels on the roof of the school."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1539.5140000000001,"endTime":1542.044,"body":"Using that to be pumped"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1539.5140000000001,"endTime":1542.044,"body":"down to heat the rock."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1542.564,"endTime":1545.694,"body":"And to about last season"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1542.564,"endTime":1545.694,"body":"it was 60 degrees."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1546.654,"endTime":1552.214,"body":"And using that summer heat to heat"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1546.654,"endTime":1552.214,"body":"the school building in the winter."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1552.7240000000002,"endTime":1557.064,"body":"So these are two examples of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1552.7240000000002,"endTime":1557.064,"body":"actual implementation of, of this,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1557.124,"endTime":1561.204,"body":"they call it geothermos, using"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1557.124,"endTime":1561.204,"body":"heat storage over the seasons."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1561.96,"endTime":1566.0,"body":"Does that require a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1561.96,"endTime":1566.0,"body":"specific geology to implement that,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1566.0,"endTime":1568.6200000000001,"body":"a specific type of rock or do you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1566.0,"endTime":1568.6200000000001,"body":"think that could be done in any kind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1568.6200000000001,"endTime":1570.3700000000001,"body":"of rock and any kind of geography?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1570.904,"endTime":1573.544,"body":"I think it's"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1570.904,"endTime":1573.544,"body":"different efficiencies on the rock."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1574.094,"endTime":1577.719,"body":"I think also about the leakage et"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1574.094,"endTime":1577.719,"body":"cetera of the heat in terms of, of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1577.9740000000002,"endTime":1579.7440000000001,"body":"fractures and, and water, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1580.479,"endTime":1585.909,"body":"So it's partly the rock and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1580.479,"endTime":1585.909,"body":"partly, I think, geostructural"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1585.959,"endTime":1587.039,"body":"properties of the rock."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1587.4740000000002,"endTime":1593.2540000000001,"body":"But I think it has a quite general"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1587.4740000000002,"endTime":1593.2540000000001,"body":"application, but I think it to what"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1593.2540000000001,"endTime":1596.464,"body":"degree it'll be open or closed systems"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1593.2540000000001,"endTime":1596.464,"body":"and, and a lot of other features you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1596.464,"endTime":1597.9940000000001,"body":"have to kind of special design it."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1597.9940000000001,"endTime":1601.714,"body":"So I think that the cost will"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1597.9940000000001,"endTime":1601.714,"body":"vary also based on the type"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1601.714,"endTime":1602.797,"body":"of geology, that's right."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1603.964,"endTime":1608.669,"body":"And we've seen huge advances,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1603.964,"endTime":1608.669,"body":"obviously in solar and wind, as you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1608.669,"endTime":1610.219,"body":"mentioned earlier, and storage as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1610.219,"endTime":1612.809,"body":"And a lot of those are down to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1610.219,"endTime":1612.809,"body":"learning curves and things like"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1612.829,"endTime":1614.539,"body":"that and economies of scale."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1615.3490000000002,"endTime":1621.4450000000002,"body":"But what about other technologies,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1615.3490000000002,"endTime":1621.4450000000002,"body":"things like, AI, data analytics, how"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1621.4450000000002,"endTime":1623.565,"body":"are they changing the energy game?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1624.679,"endTime":1631.846,"body":"Yes, first data centers are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1624.679,"endTime":1631.846,"body":"growing quite fast in energy consumption."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1632.376,"endTime":1638.906,"body":"They, for the last three years, they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1632.376,"endTime":1638.906,"body":"have been growing from about 180 to 400."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1638.9260000000002,"endTime":1640.476,"body":"And now I think from the last five years."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1641.152,"endTime":1643.712,"body":"Before that, they were actually"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1641.152,"endTime":1643.712,"body":"not growing very much for 10 years."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1644.332,"endTime":1649.362,"body":"Because efficiency of the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1644.332,"endTime":1649.362,"body":"computers went down faster than"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1649.422,"endTime":1651.058,"body":"the end usage of the services."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1651.558,"endTime":1654.775,"body":"And AI is clearly a"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1651.558,"endTime":1654.775,"body":"driver  on this new growth."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1654.775,"endTime":1657.025,"body":"So we are at 400 terawatt hours today."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1657.075,"endTime":1662.2450000000001,"body":"And we think that this could uh,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1657.075,"endTime":1662.2450000000001,"body":"three to fourfold over the next"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1662.425,"endTime":1666.865,"body":"uh, five to to seven years based on"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1662.425,"endTime":1666.865,"body":"the explosion of AI applications."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1667.405,"endTime":1673.115,"body":"Still this is, less than 10% of,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1667.405,"endTime":1673.115,"body":"of the total growth of energy,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1673.115,"endTime":1673.775,"body":"of electricity consumption."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1674.255,"endTime":1678.765,"body":"So yes, it's growing fast, but it's"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1674.255,"endTime":1678.765,"body":"it's not kind of the only thing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1678.765,"endTime":1681.742,"body":"that is growing, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1678.765,"endTime":1681.742,"body":"example, air conditioning In the,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1681.742,"endTime":1684.602,"body":"of course, the warm areas of the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1681.742,"endTime":1684.602,"body":"world is also driving very fast."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1684.602,"endTime":1688.382,"body":"You know, even, even in Africa, South"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1684.602,"endTime":1688.382,"body":"Asia, et cetera, air conditioning is,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1688.412,"endTime":1690.852,"body":"is growing very fast at the moment."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1691.462,"endTime":1693.262,"body":"And also electrification"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1691.462,"endTime":1693.262,"body":"of transportation."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1693.828,"endTime":1700.038,"body":"But still this is creating some"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1693.828,"endTime":1700.038,"body":"headlines now on the need for new energy."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1700.038,"endTime":1702.998,"body":"And we see that, for example, this"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1700.038,"endTime":1702.998,"body":"new gas fired power plants in the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1702.998,"endTime":1710.048,"body":"US, in addition to renewed interest"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1702.998,"endTime":1710.048,"body":"in nuclear, is also ways to deal"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1710.078,"endTime":1712.358,"body":"with this in addition to renewables."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1712.853,"endTime":1716.7430000000002,"body":"But overall, with the pace we have of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1712.853,"endTime":1716.7430000000002,"body":"renewable growth and the competitiveness"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1716.7430000000002,"endTime":1720.863,"body":"of it, I think we are actually,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1716.7430000000002,"endTime":1720.863,"body":"energy shortage will not actually"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1720.873,"endTime":1722.6180000000002,"body":"be the big problem going forward."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1722.6180000000002,"endTime":1724.813,"body":"I come from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1722.6180000000002,"endTime":1724.813,"body":"a data center background."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1724.813,"endTime":1728.373,"body":"I developed a data center in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1724.813,"endTime":1728.373,"body":"Ireland back between 2006 and 2008."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.893,"endTime":1733.983,"body":"And one of the things that I was proposing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1728.893,"endTime":1733.983,"body":"at the time was that data centers could be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1733.9930000000002,"endTime":1740.213,"body":"actually a solution rather than a problem"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1733.9930000000002,"endTime":1740.213,"body":"in that all data centers have very high"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1740.528,"endTime":1746.448,"body":"connectivity for bandwidth and for energy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1740.528,"endTime":1746.448,"body":"and also for a backup for redundancy."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1746.718,"endTime":1751.558,"body":"So given a signal from a grid"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1746.718,"endTime":1751.558,"body":"operator, they could go offline"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1751.848,"endTime":1755.3680000000002,"body":"at a point in time, work off their"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1751.848,"endTime":1755.3680000000002,"body":"batteries and then come back online."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1755.3680000000002,"endTime":1758.1180000000002,"body":"So they could be part of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1755.3680000000002,"endTime":1758.1180000000002,"body":"demand management solution."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1758.633,"endTime":1762.7830000000001,"body":"And, you know, you see the same kind"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1758.633,"endTime":1762.7830000000001,"body":"of ideas being proposed for electric"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1762.823,"endTime":1765.933,"body":"cars as well with vehicle to grid."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1766.203,"endTime":1769.603,"body":"You're seeing it being rolled out in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1766.203,"endTime":1769.603,"body":"parts of the US where we're seeing, for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1769.603,"endTime":1775.518,"body":"example, electric buses, electric school"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1769.603,"endTime":1775.518,"body":"buses in particular being used as backup"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1775.738,"endTime":1777.338,"body":"as virtual power plants, essentially."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1777.718,"endTime":1782.538,"body":"Have you seen or do you think data centers"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1777.718,"endTime":1782.538,"body":"could be similar kind of virtual power"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1782.538,"endTime":1787.598,"body":"plants or at least demand management"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1782.538,"endTime":1787.598,"body":"solutions to help the grid be firmed up?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1788.0520000000001,"endTime":1788.332,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1788.5520000000001,"endTime":1791.642,"body":"I think what you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1788.5520000000001,"endTime":1791.642,"body":"is the new development."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1792.252,"endTime":1796.612,"body":"Where I like, again, to go back to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1792.252,"endTime":1796.612,"body":"the media revolution to see how we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1796.612,"endTime":1800.392,"body":"get integrated solutions between all"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1796.612,"endTime":1800.392,"body":"the different traditional, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1800.402,"endTime":1803.432,"body":"newspapers television, everything"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1800.402,"endTime":1803.432,"body":"integrated into one platform."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1803.622,"endTime":1806.702,"body":"And what we see now is the same is"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1803.622,"endTime":1806.702,"body":"happening in the power market, like"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1806.702,"endTime":1808.122,"body":"you mentioned, the data centers."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1808.122,"endTime":1810.712,"body":"But let's first give"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1808.122,"endTime":1810.712,"body":"you one other example."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1811.362,"endTime":1812.722,"body":"It's a company called Octopus."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1813.002,"endTime":1817.5620000000001,"body":"Very attacking, you know electricity"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1813.002,"endTime":1817.5620000000001,"body":"sales to users in many countries, I"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1817.632,"endTime":1822.7920000000001,"body":"think from EU, they started in the UK and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1817.632,"endTime":1822.7920000000001,"body":"they are offering the charging of your"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1823.212,"endTime":1826.092,"body":"electric vehicle for a discounted price."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1826.762,"endTime":1829.5620000000001,"body":"That's only the kind of value"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1826.762,"endTime":1829.5620000000001,"body":"proposition to the end user."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1829.9470000000001,"endTime":1832.287,"body":"But what they are then doing is"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1829.9470000000001,"endTime":1832.287,"body":"we have to install the hardware"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1832.327,"endTime":1833.477,"body":"box and the software box."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1833.9170000000001,"endTime":1837.387,"body":"And what they're doing is they're"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1833.9170000000001,"endTime":1837.387,"body":"using this hardware to use your"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1837.4470000000001,"endTime":1839.737,"body":"car as part of the power system."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1840.297,"endTime":1843.467,"body":"And in the early morning typically when"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1840.297,"endTime":1843.467,"body":"you need a lot of electricity and you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1843.477,"endTime":1847.424,"body":"have a little renewable production,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1843.477,"endTime":1847.424,"body":"they  are already the biggest seller"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1847.814,"endTime":1849.304,"body":"of electricity actually in the UK."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1850.164,"endTime":1851.3690000000001,"body":"And also other places."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1851.3690000000001,"endTime":1856.3990000000001,"body":"So they, they're using the electric"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1851.3690000000001,"endTime":1856.3990000000001,"body":"vehicle as this virtual power plant."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1856.8690000000001,"endTime":1859.6290000000001,"body":"But of course, data centers"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1856.8690000000001,"endTime":1859.6290000000001,"body":"have all these backup solutions."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1859.719,"endTime":1864.775,"body":"So for a short term, for arbitrage on,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1859.719,"endTime":1864.775,"body":"in in the minute and maybe over space,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1864.835,"endTime":1868.375,"body":"yes, they could be very relevant as"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1864.835,"endTime":1868.375,"body":"well since they have this flexibility."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1869.295,"endTime":1871.935,"body":"But basically, are two types"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1869.295,"endTime":1871.935,"body":"of, of data centers in terms"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1871.935,"endTime":1873.345,"body":"of of, of the application."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1873.645,"endTime":1876.075,"body":"One is the new learning centers."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1876.295,"endTime":1880.8790000000001,"body":"AI where you have to just process you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1876.295,"endTime":1880.8790000000001,"body":"know, billions of, of documents, et"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1880.8790000000001,"endTime":1886.422,"body":"cetera, to, to do the training of,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1880.8790000000001,"endTime":1886.422,"body":"of the AI neural networks, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1886.892,"endTime":1890.057,"body":"And they don't need to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1886.892,"endTime":1890.057,"body":"be 100% operational."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1890.107,"endTime":1892.727,"body":"They can be operational"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1890.107,"endTime":1892.727,"body":"when you have cheap power."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1893.1470000000002,"endTime":1896.9070000000002,"body":"While the applications"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1893.1470000000002,"endTime":1896.9070000000002,"body":"they need to be 24 7."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1897.757,"endTime":1902.307,"body":"Also then you can design it such that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1897.757,"endTime":1902.307,"body":"you have more load flexibility on"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1902.327,"endTime":1905.717,"body":"some kind of data centers and also"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1902.327,"endTime":1905.717,"body":"place those data centers where you"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1905.717,"endTime":1909.247,"body":"need that load flexibility, while"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1905.717,"endTime":1909.247,"body":"other data centers must, of course,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1909.247,"endTime":1912.1970000000001,"body":"be very operational, but they have"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1909.247,"endTime":1912.1970000000001,"body":"this battery backup, as you mentioned."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1912.9270000000001,"endTime":1915.637,"body":"But also data centers, they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1912.9270000000001,"endTime":1915.637,"body":"can be far away from the usage."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1915.6570000000002,"endTime":1917.297,"body":"It's much cheaper to move."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1917.9170000000001,"endTime":1922.6870000000001,"body":"information through fiber optic networks"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1917.9170000000001,"endTime":1922.6870000000001,"body":"than it is to move electricity still."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1923.087,"endTime":1925.807,"body":"So you can put the data centers"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1923.087,"endTime":1925.807,"body":"where you have access to cheap"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1926.317,"endTime":1930.71,"body":"electricity also, of course, data"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1926.317,"endTime":1930.71,"body":"security is also very important."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1931.505,"endTime":1936.71,"body":"So, so still there will be some limits to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1931.505,"endTime":1936.71,"body":"this for the risks of data security etc."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1937.165,"endTime":1941.865,"body":"Going back to things like"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1937.165,"endTime":1941.865,"body":"hydrogen, which we've mentioned in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1941.865,"endTime":1944.655,"body":"passing, and carbon capture as well."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1945.7050000000002,"endTime":1950.4650000000001,"body":"Do you think that they have a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1945.7050000000002,"endTime":1950.4650000000001,"body":"serious role to play in reaching"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1950.4650000000001,"endTime":1952.2450000000001,"body":"net zero or do you think...?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1952.7050000000002,"endTime":1956.2150000000001,"body":"There's a lot of negative talk about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1952.7050000000002,"endTime":1956.2150000000001,"body":"carbon capture as it's being used"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1957.4550000000002,"endTime":1961.635,"body":"potentially as a way to not reduce"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1957.4550000000002,"endTime":1961.635,"body":"emissions by energy companies, for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1961.635,"endTime":1965.865,"body":"example, it's been touted as that and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1961.635,"endTime":1965.865,"body":"hydrogen, of course, is being touted"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1965.865,"endTime":1970.615,"body":"as some kind of unicorn solution"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1965.865,"endTime":1970.615,"body":"to everything, whereas we know that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1970.625,"endTime":1975.315,"body":"the production of hydrogen today"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1970.625,"endTime":1975.315,"body":"causes a lot of emissions and it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1975.325,"endTime":1977.545,"body":"not an efficient energy carrier."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1977.565,"endTime":1979.7250000000001,"body":"There are huge losses"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1977.565,"endTime":1979.7250000000001,"body":"associated with the use of it."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1980.125,"endTime":1984.065,"body":"The likes of using hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1980.125,"endTime":1984.065,"body":"for transportation has been"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1984.065,"endTime":1988.95,"body":"shot down in most kind of modes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1984.065,"endTime":1988.95,"body":"of transportation for various"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1988.95,"endTime":1990.6200000000001,"body":"technological and efficiency reasons."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1990.6200000000001,"endTime":1992.77,"body":"So, talk to me a little bit about that."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1992.77,"endTime":1996.8700000000001,"body":"Where do you see their"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1992.77,"endTime":1996.8700000000001,"body":"utilisation being useful?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1997.469,"endTime":1999.709,"body":"Yeah, let me"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":1997.469,"endTime":1999.709,"body":"start with hydrogen then."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2000.219,"endTime":2004.809,"body":"And let me first refer back to some, some"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2000.219,"endTime":2004.809,"body":"documents and visions that existed in"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2004.809,"endTime":2008.6290000000001,"body":"the 1970s, especially developed by Japan."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2009.089,"endTime":2012.799,"body":"That was this talked about"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2009.089,"endTime":2012.799,"body":"the future hydrogen society."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2013.439,"endTime":2017.729,"body":"And basically in that society,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2013.439,"endTime":2017.729,"body":"everything was running on hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2018.1290000000001,"endTime":2023.029,"body":"rather than fossil fuel -cars, ships,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2018.1290000000001,"endTime":2023.029,"body":"everything, you know, heating et cetera."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2023.709,"endTime":2028.3890000000001,"body":"That vision of the hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2023.709,"endTime":2028.3890000000001,"body":"society is never going to happen."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2028.919,"endTime":2034.019,"body":"We never get that hydrogen society"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2028.919,"endTime":2034.019,"body":"because the electricity society and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2034.019,"endTime":2038.429,"body":"the electricity and battery is for"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2034.019,"endTime":2038.429,"body":"most applications much more efficient."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2039.529,"endTime":2043.054,"body":"Still, hydrogen has a role,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2039.529,"endTime":2043.054,"body":"very important role to play."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2043.567,"endTime":2047.857,"body":"But more as a niche"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2043.567,"endTime":2047.857,"body":"application by end users."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2048.6369999999997,"endTime":2056.427,"body":"And also hydrogen is one way to store"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2048.6369999999997,"endTime":2056.427,"body":"energy when you have surplus energy"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2056.737,"endTime":2061.037,"body":"from intermittent renewables, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2056.737,"endTime":2061.037,"body":"when typically from wind systems, they"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2061.057,"endTime":2065.587,"body":"have two to three times the capacity"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2061.057,"endTime":2065.587,"body":"versus what the market is asking for."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2065.807,"endTime":2069.907,"body":"If you, if you have a 100%"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2065.807,"endTime":2069.907,"body":"kind of renewable set up."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2070.407,"endTime":2072.977,"body":"So, so when the wind is blowing,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2070.407,"endTime":2072.977,"body":"you will produce much more"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2073.007,"endTime":2074.687,"body":"electrons than anyone can absorb."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2075.007,"endTime":2079.417,"body":"And then to, to sink this extra"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2075.007,"endTime":2079.417,"body":"energy into hydrogen is then a"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2079.417,"endTime":2081.297,"body":"need you have on the upstream side."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2081.827,"endTime":2086.497,"body":"The best thing is then to use that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2081.827,"endTime":2086.497,"body":"hydrogen by the niche applications"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2086.597,"endTime":2088.207,"body":"downstream where you really need it."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2088.597,"endTime":2091.0170000000003,"body":"Because it's a big energy loss associated."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2091.552,"endTime":2096.032,"body":"We're actually reproducing electricity"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2091.552,"endTime":2096.032,"body":"back to the grid with hydrogen,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2096.312,"endTime":2100.652,"body":"then you have lost 70% of the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2096.312,"endTime":2100.652,"body":"energy, so it's not a good solution."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2100.762,"endTime":2104.302,"body":"Only for extreme cases, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2100.762,"endTime":2104.302,"body":"whether we're extreme weather conditions."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2104.302,"endTime":2108.012,"body":"Yes, then it can maybe the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2104.302,"endTime":2108.012,"body":"reproduce some some electricity."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2108.352,"endTime":2109.512,"body":"And those applications."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2109.917,"endTime":2111.867,"body":"It is steelmaking."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2112.747,"endTime":2116.607,"body":"It is all the kind of chemical"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2112.747,"endTime":2116.607,"body":"industry applications of hydrogen."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2117.107,"endTime":2119.497,"body":"Basically all the hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2117.107,"endTime":2119.497,"body":"applications you already had"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2119.497,"endTime":2123.897,"body":"today, even desulfurisation of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2119.497,"endTime":2123.897,"body":"fossil fuel, you need a hydrogen."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2124.634,"endTime":2131.014,"body":"Maybe shipping but then maybe in the form"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2124.634,"endTime":2131.014,"body":"of ammonia, green ammonia or blue ammonia."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2131.254,"endTime":2136.9120000000003,"body":"And then you have  for aviation"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2131.254,"endTime":2136.9120000000003,"body":"hydrogen is very light, very so, and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2136.9120000000003,"endTime":2140.782,"body":"lifting of, of the fuel is, is a lot"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2136.9120000000003,"endTime":2140.782,"body":"of the energy you're using innovation"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2141.172,"endTime":2141.887,"body":"to lift the weight of the fuel."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2142.427,"endTime":2143.747,"body":"So we need fuel to lift the fuel."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2144.197,"endTime":2149.507,"body":"And then with hydrogen, you're saving"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2144.197,"endTime":2149.507,"body":"a lot actually on that, since it's"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2149.717,"endTime":2154.847,"body":"three times as energy dense in terms"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2149.717,"endTime":2154.847,"body":"of weight, not volume, bigger volume,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2154.847,"endTime":2157.957,"body":"but less weight versus aviation fuel."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2158.937,"endTime":2163.717,"body":"So that is at least I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2158.937,"endTime":2163.717,"body":"a few applications for hydrogen."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2163.7670000000003,"endTime":2168.337,"body":"So niche applications is for this"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2163.7670000000003,"endTime":2168.337,"body":"last 20% of emissions that could be"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2168.337,"endTime":2173.462,"body":"mitigated partly through hydrogen and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2168.337,"endTime":2173.462,"body":"partly through you still will have"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2173.492,"endTime":2176.982,"body":"emissions where you cannot get rid"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2173.492,"endTime":2176.982,"body":"of the emissions to the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2176.982,"endTime":2183.265,"body":"So we have to compensate that by"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2176.982,"endTime":2183.265,"body":"CO2 capture from the atmosphere  and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2183.285,"endTime":2188.805,"body":"that can be done directly with direct"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2183.285,"endTime":2188.805,"body":"air capture or indirectly through"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2188.805,"endTime":2191.835,"body":"capturing CO2 from burning of biomass."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2193.38,"endTime":2197.43,"body":"Which is also some kind of air capture"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2193.38,"endTime":2197.43,"body":"because first the plants are capturing it"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2197.48,"endTime":2201.71,"body":"from the air to the plants and then you're"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2197.48,"endTime":2201.71,"body":"capturing from the plants when you're"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2201.75,"endTime":2204.67,"body":"combusting it which is also two ways."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2204.71,"endTime":2210.764,"body":"So this kind of CCUS will be needed to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2204.71,"endTime":2210.764,"body":"get to the down to a net zero society,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2211.784,"endTime":2214.424,"body":"still very expensive applications."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2214.8540000000003,"endTime":2218.784,"body":"But also with the scaling that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2214.8540000000003,"endTime":2218.784,"body":"we needed, and this can be"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2218.784,"endTime":2220.1040000000003,"body":"done anywhere in the world."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2220.1440000000002,"endTime":2225.694,"body":"Actually, you can find the way with"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2220.1440000000002,"endTime":2225.694,"body":"cheapest available renewable energy,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2226.324,"endTime":2231.1040000000003,"body":"then you can steal some business cases"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2226.324,"endTime":2231.1040000000003,"body":"we can look at in the 2030s and 40s,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2231.399,"endTime":2234.149,"body":"where it actually makes sense that"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2231.399,"endTime":2234.149,"body":"this could be the cheapest way to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2234.159,"endTime":2237.649,"body":"reduce CO2 content of the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2237.939,"endTime":2241.659,"body":"If there's one thing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2237.939,"endTime":2241.659,"body":"that listeners could do today"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.659,"endTime":2245.0190000000002,"body":"to help accelerate the energy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2241.659,"endTime":2245.0190000000002,"body":"transition, what would it be?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2247.217,"endTime":2250.091,"body":"I would say to look"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2247.217,"endTime":2250.091,"body":"at the political system who we are"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2250.101,"endTime":2253.817,"body":"voting at, you know, because this"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2250.101,"endTime":2253.817,"body":"difference between two degrees and 1."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2253.817,"endTime":2257.137,"body":"5 degree, as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2253.817,"endTime":2257.137,"body":"this is depending on the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2257.157,"endTime":2258.917,"body":"policy support to the system."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2259.597,"endTime":2263.957,"body":"So the more policy support, the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2259.597,"endTime":2263.957,"body":"faster you can get to net zero."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2264.512,"endTime":2267.629,"body":"So I think you know, we are calculating"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2264.512,"endTime":2267.629,"body":"when do you need to be at zero for the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2267.629,"endTime":2277.119,"body":"different degrees of global warming and to"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2267.629,"endTime":2277.119,"body":"put it simple 1.5 is by 2050, 2.0 by 2100."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2277.649,"endTime":2279.369,"body":"And it's about 10 years."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2279.419,"endTime":2281.329,"body":"It's actually between 6 and 10 years."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2281.379,"endTime":2286.079,"body":"Delay will take you up a 0.1 degree."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2286.659,"endTime":2293.419,"body":"So net zero by 2075 is, is, I think"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2286.659,"endTime":2293.419,"body":"we're 1.8 degree global warming."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2294.079,"endTime":2299.679,"body":"So we need to get that policies"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2294.079,"endTime":2299.679,"body":"in place to get the year of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2299.679,"endTime":2301.609,"body":"net zero as early as possible."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2301.949,"endTime":2305.709,"body":"So a left field question,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2301.949,"endTime":2305.709,"body":"Jarand, if you could have any person or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2305.739,"endTime":2312.689,"body":"character alive or dead, real or fictional"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2305.739,"endTime":2312.689,"body":"as a spokesperson for achieving net"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2312.689,"endTime":2315.849,"body":"zero quickly, who would it be and why?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2317.108,"endTime":2320.638,"body":"Yeah, I think I will"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2317.108,"endTime":2320.638,"body":"be very kind of practical and down"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2320.638,"endTime":2327.518,"body":"to  earth and mention actually Ursula"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2320.638,"endTime":2327.518,"body":"von der Leyen, not because she's a big"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2327.698,"endTime":2335.358,"body":"green speaker, but basically because we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2327.698,"endTime":2335.358,"body":"just need a decent, realistic policies,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2336.308,"endTime":2343.488,"body":"need to take some risks and getting into"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2336.308,"endTime":2343.488,"body":"practical with things that are able to,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2343.978,"endTime":2350.443,"body":"also combined with other political goals"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2343.978,"endTime":2350.443,"body":"not see only one thing in isolation."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2350.7780000000002,"endTime":2355.848,"body":"But look at this holistically and find"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2350.7780000000002,"endTime":2355.848,"body":"politicians that are able to navigate"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2355.918,"endTime":2361.848,"body":"in this kind of landscape of compromises"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2355.918,"endTime":2361.848,"body":"still get something through it, which"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2361.898,"endTime":2366.658,"body":"is in all interests to get actually"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2361.898,"endTime":2366.658,"body":"good technologies being promoted and at"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2366.658,"endTime":2371.388,"body":"the same time, not with the damages, if"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2366.658,"endTime":2371.388,"body":"you do it too fast and too unbalanced."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2371.783,"endTime":2375.446,"body":"But also  that, that are seeing"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2371.783,"endTime":2375.446,"body":"that  the alternative it could impose"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2375.466,"endTime":2377.616,"body":"much higher costs on the society."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2377.926,"endTime":2382.596,"body":"So just a, a, a, decent,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2377.926,"endTime":2382.596,"body":"realistic political figure"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2382.766,"endTime":2384.096,"body":"is actually my, my choice."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2385.712,"endTime":2386.132,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2386.362,"endTime":2386.602,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2386.772,"endTime":2387.032,"body":"Superb."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2387.462,"endTime":2387.772,"body":"Nice one."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2387.832,"endTime":2388.212,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2388.802,"endTime":2390.982,"body":"We're coming towards the end"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2388.802,"endTime":2390.982,"body":"of the podcast now, Jarand."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2390.982,"endTime":2396.172,"body":"Is there any question that I did not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2390.982,"endTime":2396.172,"body":"ask that you wish I did or any aspect of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2396.172,"endTime":2399.072,"body":"this we haven't touched on that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2396.172,"endTime":2399.072,"body":"it's important for people to think about?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2401.596,"endTime":2405.886,"body":"I think of course, the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2401.596,"endTime":2405.886,"body":"politics is quite important because we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2406.0860000000002,"endTime":2410.793,"body":"need to balance the energy transition"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2406.0860000000002,"endTime":2410.793,"body":"with other aims, you know, like political"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2411.043,"endTime":2415.343,"body":"freedom et cetera, the concept of freedom,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2411.043,"endTime":2415.343,"body":"the free speech, everything, you know."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2415.918,"endTime":2421.068,"body":"So yes there is a trade off"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2415.918,"endTime":2421.068,"body":"also, especially with respect"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2421.128,"endTime":2422.598,"body":"also to the role of China."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2423.088,"endTime":2429.488,"body":"It could be some cases where we"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2423.088,"endTime":2429.488,"body":"actually will accept a slower energy"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2429.618,"endTime":2436.148,"body":"transition versus higher kind of"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2429.618,"endTime":2436.148,"body":"promotion of liberal democratic values."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2436.763,"endTime":2439.993,"body":"So I think this is an interesting"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2436.763,"endTime":2439.993,"body":"philosophical discussion"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2440.033,"endTime":2441.4230000000002,"body":"how we should balance this."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2441.773,"endTime":2446.543,"body":"I realize it's not time to talk about"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2441.773,"endTime":2446.543,"body":"everything in every podcast, so I"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2446.583,"endTime":2451.283,"body":"accept that, but this is, I think,"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2446.583,"endTime":2451.283,"body":"a very interesting topic to discuss."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2454.459,"endTime":2455.989,"body":"We'll have to have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2454.459,"endTime":2455.989,"body":"you back for another episode and we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2455.989,"endTime":2457.659,"body":"can discuss that one in depth then."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2458.169,"endTime":2458.459,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2459.529,"endTime":2459.849,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2459.849,"endTime":2463.2690000000002,"body":"Jarand, if people would like to know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2459.849,"endTime":2463.2690000000002,"body":"more about yourself or any of the things"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2463.2690000000002,"endTime":2466.179,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2463.2690000000002,"endTime":2466.179,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2467.314,"endTime":2469.204,"body":"It's very"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2467.314,"endTime":2469.204,"body":"easy to find our websites."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2469.794,"endTime":2477.684,"body":"So we have tens of users and"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2469.794,"endTime":2477.684,"body":"clients globally, and we are very"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2477.764,"endTime":2481.914,"body":"visible, I think, in, in in the"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2477.764,"endTime":2481.914,"body":"newspapers or all kinds of media."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2482.284,"endTime":2486.834,"body":"So just reach out and we will help"},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2482.284,"endTime":2486.834,"body":"you to solve your energy questions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2487.612,"endTime":2488.062,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2488.332,"endTime":2489.317,"body":"Jarand, that's been great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2489.347,"endTime":2489.987,"body":"Really interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2490.007,"endTime":2491.657,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2490.007,"endTime":2491.657,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2492.411,"endTime":2492.931,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2493.011,"endTime":2493.781,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Jarand Rystad","startTime":2493.851,"endTime":2494.661,"body":"Pleasure to be here."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2495.399,"endTime":2497.2690000000002,"body":"Okay, we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2495.399,"endTime":2497.2690000000002,"body":"come to the end of the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2497.989,"endTime":2499.099,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2499.959,"endTime":2504.109,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2499.959,"endTime":2504.109,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2504.119,"endTime":2508.029,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2508.279,"endTime":2511.759,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2512.329,"endTime":2516.069,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2512.329,"endTime":2516.069,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2516.089,"endTime":2520.569,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2516.089,"endTime":2520.569,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2521.199,"endTime":2524.159,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2521.199,"endTime":2524.159,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2524.359,"endTime":2526.889,"body":"It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2524.359,"endTime":2526.889,"body":"people to find the show."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2527.9790000000003,"endTime":2528.429,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2529.099,"endTime":2530.0190000000002,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}