{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.606,"endTime":9.866,"body":"We can usually recover on average, around"},{"startTime":3.606,"endTime":9.866,"body":"60% of the costs over the course of their"},{"startTime":9.866,"endTime":15.796,"body":"tenants leases through that tenant cost"},{"startTime":9.866,"endTime":15.796,"body":"recovery process and up to I mean, that's"},{"startTime":15.796,"endTime":17.476,"body":"like sort of the average case scenario."},{"startTime":17.476,"endTime":21.433,"body":"I'd say like the best case scenario"},{"startTime":17.476,"endTime":21.433,"body":"is we've seen funds where we can"},{"startTime":21.433,"endTime":25.513,"body":"even make it a source of revenue"},{"startTime":21.433,"endTime":25.513,"body":"so we can actually 4x their initial"},{"startTime":25.513,"endTime":27.323,"body":"investment in those retrofits."},{"startTime":28.693,"endTime":31.143,"body":"And that's not even talking about"},{"startTime":28.693,"endTime":31.143,"body":"the carbon savings, of course."},{"startTime":31.763,"endTime":35.173,"body":"Good morning, good afternoon, or good"},{"startTime":31.763,"endTime":35.173,"body":"evening, wherever you are in the world."},{"startTime":35.473,"endTime":40.043,"body":"Welcome to episode 210 of the"},{"startTime":35.473,"endTime":40.043,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, the go to"},{"startTime":40.043,"endTime":43.873,"body":"show for best practices in climate"},{"startTime":40.043,"endTime":43.873,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"startTime":45.043,"endTime":48.603,"body":"I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and if"},{"startTime":45.043,"endTime":48.603,"body":"you haven't already, be sure to follow"},{"startTime":48.603,"endTime":52.923,"body":"this podcast in your podcast app of"},{"startTime":48.603,"endTime":52.923,"body":"choice so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":54.103,"endTime":56.933,"body":"Before we dive into today's"},{"startTime":54.103,"endTime":56.933,"body":"show, a huge thank you to this"},{"startTime":56.943,"endTime":58.883,"body":"podcast's incredible supporters."},{"startTime":59.398,"endTime":62.608,"body":"Your backing keeps this podcast"},{"startTime":59.398,"endTime":62.608,"body":"going and I truly appreciate"},{"startTime":62.898,"endTime":64.248,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"startTime":65.228,"endTime":68.438,"body":"If you'd like to join our community, you"},{"startTime":65.228,"endTime":68.438,"body":"can support the show for as little as"},{"startTime":68.438,"endTime":72.278,"body":"three euros or dollars a month, which is"},{"startTime":68.438,"endTime":72.278,"body":"less than the cost of a cup of coffee."},{"startTime":72.608,"endTime":75.238,"body":"Just need to click the support"},{"startTime":72.608,"endTime":75.238,"body":"link in the show notes of this"},{"startTime":75.498,"endTime":77.918,"body":"or any episode or visit tinyurl."},{"startTime":78.408,"endTime":80.598,"body":"com slash climate pod."},{"startTime":81.568,"endTime":86.138,"body":"Now in today's show, I'm thrilled to"},{"startTime":81.568,"endTime":86.138,"body":"be talking to Puja Balachander and in"},{"startTime":86.138,"endTime":88.098,"body":"the coming weeks, I'll be talking to."},{"startTime":88.668,"endTime":91.788,"body":"Jenny Morgan about her"},{"startTime":88.668,"endTime":91.788,"body":"book on cancel culture."},{"startTime":92.418,"endTime":97.618,"body":"Chris Doherty, the CEO of Joulen, and"},{"startTime":92.418,"endTime":97.618,"body":"we'll be talking about electricity grids."},{"startTime":98.378,"endTime":103.488,"body":"Sandhya Sabapathy, who's the head of"},{"startTime":98.378,"endTime":103.488,"body":"environment and net zero at Entain."},{"startTime":104.348,"endTime":107.978,"body":"And Faustine Delassalle, who's the"},{"startTime":104.348,"endTime":107.978,"body":"executive director of the Industrial"},{"startTime":107.978,"endTime":112.458,"body":"Transition Accelerator, and we'll be"},{"startTime":107.978,"endTime":112.458,"body":"talking about industrial decarbonisation."},{"startTime":113.268,"endTime":117.768,"body":"But back to today's show, and as I"},{"startTime":113.268,"endTime":117.768,"body":"mentioned, my special guest today is Puja."},{"startTime":118.298,"endTime":120.193,"body":"Puja, welcome to the podcast."},{"startTime":120.213,"endTime":121.853,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"startTime":122.35,"endTime":123.94,"body":"Thanks so much for having me, Tom."},{"startTime":124.23,"endTime":124.62,"body":"I'm Puja."},{"startTime":125.05,"endTime":127.91,"body":"I'm the CEO and co founder of Upgreen."},{"startTime":128.32,"endTime":133.805,"body":"At Upgreen we support commercial"},{"startTime":128.32,"endTime":133.805,"body":"landlords, large asset managers"},{"startTime":134.045,"endTime":137.695,"body":"and property investors to improve"},{"startTime":134.045,"endTime":137.695,"body":"the energy efficiency of their"},{"startTime":137.695,"endTime":139.645,"body":"building portfolios at scale."},{"startTime":140.065,"endTime":142.065,"body":"And we do so in a couple key ways."},{"startTime":142.475,"endTime":146.805,"body":"One is that we reduce the amount"},{"startTime":142.475,"endTime":146.805,"body":"of capex required to actually do"},{"startTime":146.805,"endTime":148.295,"body":"those retrofits in the first place."},{"startTime":148.795,"endTime":153.235,"body":"And we align interests with tenants"},{"startTime":148.795,"endTime":153.235,"body":"as well so that we're able to actually"},{"startTime":153.255,"endTime":157.105,"body":"capture back some of those savings"},{"startTime":153.255,"endTime":157.105,"body":"that they achieve as a result of those"},{"startTime":157.115,"endTime":161.775,"body":"retrofits so that owners actually get"},{"startTime":157.115,"endTime":161.775,"body":"an ROI on their initial investment"},{"startTime":162.005,"endTime":163.765,"body":"while they still get a net savings."},{"startTime":164.765,"endTime":165.135,"body":"Nice."},{"startTime":165.675,"endTime":168.73,"body":"And how did you come up"},{"startTime":165.675,"endTime":168.73,"body":"with this idea, Puja?"},{"startTime":168.88,"endTime":173.31,"body":"Because you are co founder"},{"startTime":168.88,"endTime":173.31,"body":"and CEO of Upgreen."},{"startTime":173.32,"endTime":174.71,"body":"So where did it all come from?"},{"startTime":174.71,"endTime":175.72,"body":"What's the origin story?"},{"startTime":176.6,"endTime":181.64,"body":"Yeah, so I actually have nothing to"},{"startTime":176.6,"endTime":181.64,"body":"do with real estate and have never"},{"startTime":181.64,"endTime":183.58,"body":"kind of worked in this area before."},{"startTime":183.96,"endTime":186.62,"body":"I started my career"},{"startTime":183.96,"endTime":186.62,"body":"actually in government."},{"startTime":186.62,"endTime":189.5,"body":"So I was working in the US"},{"startTime":186.62,"endTime":189.5,"body":"in the Obama administration."},{"startTime":189.85,"endTime":192.89,"body":"Then I worked for the World Bank and"},{"startTime":189.85,"endTime":192.89,"body":"then I worked for the city of Austin."},{"startTime":192.89,"endTime":196.39,"body":"So kind of local all the way to sort"},{"startTime":192.89,"endTime":196.39,"body":"of international level government"},{"startTime":196.39,"endTime":199.5,"body":"organisations around making"},{"startTime":196.39,"endTime":199.5,"body":"public services more effective."},{"startTime":200.06,"endTime":204.26,"body":"And mostly worked in kind of product and"},{"startTime":200.06,"endTime":204.26,"body":"design and innovation along those lines"},{"startTime":204.48,"endTime":210.805,"body":"on everything from preventing seniors"},{"startTime":204.48,"endTime":210.805,"body":"from falling, to police accountability"},{"startTime":210.815,"endTime":213.585,"body":"and child welfare system reform."},{"startTime":213.875,"endTime":216.945,"body":"So really, really quite wide ranging"},{"startTime":213.875,"endTime":216.945,"body":"stuff, but always in the sort of"},{"startTime":216.945,"endTime":218.745,"body":"like innovation design product space."},{"startTime":219.115,"endTime":221.165,"body":"And then went ahead and did my MBA."},{"startTime":221.24,"endTime":223.235,"body":"That's what brought me"},{"startTime":221.24,"endTime":223.235,"body":"to the UK initially."},{"startTime":223.585,"endTime":226.765,"body":"And so I did that at Oxford"},{"startTime":223.585,"endTime":226.765,"body":"where I started my first company"},{"startTime":226.965,"endTime":228.085,"body":"and that was in health tech."},{"startTime":228.105,"endTime":232.175,"body":"We were digitizing child psychology"},{"startTime":228.105,"endTime":232.175,"body":"interventions and making them accessible"},{"startTime":232.175,"endTime":233.855,"body":"to parents of children under five."},{"startTime":235.075,"endTime":238.385,"body":"That was an exciting journey,"},{"startTime":235.075,"endTime":238.385,"body":"and we, after about three years,"},{"startTime":238.415,"endTime":240.025,"body":"ended up selling it to a U."},{"startTime":240.025,"endTime":243.865,"body":"S. company that now sells it into"},{"startTime":240.025,"endTime":243.865,"body":"state and local child welfare"},{"startTime":243.865,"endTime":247.185,"body":"agencies, so a bit of a full"},{"startTime":243.865,"endTime":247.185,"body":"circle moment in my career there."},{"startTime":248.015,"endTime":252.895,"body":"But after that, I started working"},{"startTime":248.015,"endTime":252.895,"body":"for a VC that invests in early stage"},{"startTime":252.925,"endTime":255.86,"body":"climate tech startups, called Carbon 13."},{"startTime":256.46,"endTime":260.41,"body":"And in the process, that's really where"},{"startTime":256.46,"endTime":260.41,"body":"I came up with the idea for UpGreen."},{"startTime":260.72,"endTime":264.37,"body":"I was getting pitched by so many"},{"startTime":260.72,"endTime":264.37,"body":"companies that were working in the built"},{"startTime":264.37,"endTime":268.913,"body":"in environment and basically working"},{"startTime":264.37,"endTime":268.913,"body":"on this retrofit challenge which is"},{"startTime":268.933,"endTime":273.308,"body":"that all of these interventions around"},{"startTime":268.933,"endTime":273.308,"body":"retrofit have existed pretty much forever."},{"startTime":273.308,"endTime":275.038,"body":"You know, insulation is not new."},{"startTime":275.678,"endTime":277.708,"body":"Double glazing your windows is not new."},{"startTime":277.728,"endTime":279.338,"body":"Like, none of this is new stuff."},{"startTime":279.528,"endTime":281.808,"body":"And in fact, it's all"},{"startTime":279.528,"endTime":281.808,"body":"pretty cheap stuff, too."},{"startTime":281.808,"endTime":284.408,"body":"It's not just, it's not that it's"},{"startTime":281.808,"endTime":284.408,"body":"expensive or something, or there's"},{"startTime":284.408,"endTime":287.598,"body":"new technology that you need"},{"startTime":284.408,"endTime":287.598,"body":"to validate and then roll out."},{"startTime":288.178,"endTime":294.673,"body":"Yet, there is so like so much less of it"},{"startTime":288.178,"endTime":294.673,"body":"is in the market than there should be."},{"startTime":294.673,"endTime":297.533,"body":"You know, the U. K. has one of the"},{"startTime":294.673,"endTime":297.533,"body":"oldest housing stocks in the world."},{"startTime":298.003,"endTime":303.243,"body":"Commercial buildings here waste around"},{"startTime":298.003,"endTime":303.243,"body":"20 to 30% of energy annually in the U."},{"startTime":303.243,"endTime":308.773,"body":"K. around 87% of buildings require these"},{"startTime":303.243,"endTime":308.773,"body":"upgrades within just the next five years"},{"startTime":308.783,"endTime":311.193,"body":"to meet regulatory standards as well."},{"startTime":311.653,"endTime":316.163,"body":"So it's not that there isn't an incentive"},{"startTime":311.653,"endTime":316.163,"body":"to make these things happen yet, Mhm."},{"startTime":316.658,"endTime":319.558,"body":"they're just not happening at the"},{"startTime":316.658,"endTime":319.558,"body":"scale that you would expect them"},{"startTime":319.558,"endTime":322.638,"body":"to be so often, you know, I come"},{"startTime":319.558,"endTime":322.638,"body":"from an innovation background."},{"startTime":322.638,"endTime":325.258,"body":"You often look for, like, what"},{"startTime":322.638,"endTime":325.258,"body":"is the weird behavior that"},{"startTime":325.258,"endTime":326.468,"body":"doesn't seem to make sense?"},{"startTime":326.718,"endTime":329.288,"body":"And this is like a very obvious"},{"startTime":326.718,"endTime":329.288,"body":"sort of why isn't this already"},{"startTime":329.288,"endTime":330.618,"body":"happening kind of moment?"},{"startTime":331.035,"endTime":334.015,"body":"And so basically, like what I was getting"},{"startTime":331.035,"endTime":334.015,"body":"pitched by a lot of these companies was"},{"startTime":334.045,"endTime":337.365,"body":"that the reason this isn't happening"},{"startTime":334.045,"endTime":337.365,"body":"is because the data is missing on these"},{"startTime":337.365,"endTime":339.555,"body":"buildings and to some extent that's true."},{"startTime":339.555,"endTime":343.045,"body":"So when we've even spoken to real"},{"startTime":339.555,"endTime":343.045,"body":"estate investors or landlords,"},{"startTime":343.405,"endTime":346.015,"body":"sometimes they don't know the"},{"startTime":343.405,"endTime":346.015,"body":"year that the building was built."},{"startTime":346.615,"endTime":351.155,"body":"Or, just really basic stuff about the"},{"startTime":346.615,"endTime":351.155,"body":"buildings that are in their portfolios."},{"startTime":351.465,"endTime":354.825,"body":"Of course, they know, you know, the rent"},{"startTime":351.465,"endTime":354.825,"body":"per square foot and they have predictions"},{"startTime":354.825,"endTime":356.945,"body":"on what that rent per square foot will be."},{"startTime":357.455,"endTime":360.755,"body":"But I think other than that, a lot of"},{"startTime":357.455,"endTime":360.755,"body":"that information on those buildings"},{"startTime":361.065,"endTime":364.795,"body":"is lost or missing or just, in a"},{"startTime":361.065,"endTime":364.795,"body":"different part of the organization."},{"startTime":364.795,"endTime":366.685,"body":"it's quite siloed,"},{"startTime":364.795,"endTime":366.685,"body":"something along these lines."},{"startTime":366.955,"endTime":369.505,"body":"So people were pitching us that"},{"startTime":366.955,"endTime":369.505,"body":"that data is just missing, so people"},{"startTime":369.505,"endTime":370.805,"body":"don't actually know what to do."},{"startTime":371.415,"endTime":374.935,"body":"And then the other side is that, okay,"},{"startTime":371.415,"endTime":374.935,"body":"then once they have that data, there's"},{"startTime":374.935,"endTime":379.425,"body":"actually so much of it, it's difficult to"},{"startTime":374.935,"endTime":379.425,"body":"then make sense of it all, to understand,"},{"startTime":379.425,"endTime":384.195,"body":"okay, what's to make a business plan that"},{"startTime":379.425,"endTime":384.195,"body":"you can actually, you know, invest into"},{"startTime":384.195,"endTime":385.835,"body":"basically for some of these retrofits."},{"startTime":386.615,"endTime":388.895,"body":"And to some extent, you"},{"startTime":386.615,"endTime":388.895,"body":"know, I believed it."},{"startTime":388.925,"endTime":392.445,"body":"I have seen that that is actually a"},{"startTime":388.925,"endTime":392.445,"body":"problem, but there were two challenges"},{"startTime":392.445,"endTime":394.165,"body":"that I found in in my VC job."},{"startTime":394.535,"endTime":397.58,"body":"So one was that, just everyone"},{"startTime":394.535,"endTime":397.58,"body":"was coming up with the same thing."},{"startTime":397.58,"endTime":399.66,"body":"It just felt like a really,"},{"startTime":397.58,"endTime":399.66,"body":"really crowded space."},{"startTime":399.94,"endTime":403.95,"body":"And then I think the other side"},{"startTime":399.94,"endTime":403.95,"body":"was that, okay, now there are"},{"startTime":403.95,"endTime":405.62,"body":"some leading players in that area."},{"startTime":405.62,"endTime":408.75,"body":"There are some strides being made"},{"startTime":405.62,"endTime":408.75,"body":"around getting the data and making,"},{"startTime":408.79,"endTime":410.89,"body":"and there are consultants who"},{"startTime":408.79,"endTime":410.89,"body":"have been supporting with this."},{"startTime":411.28,"endTime":413.44,"body":"Yet these projects are"},{"startTime":411.28,"endTime":413.44,"body":"still not happening."},{"startTime":413.44,"endTime":415.1,"body":"So it feels like everyone"},{"startTime":413.44,"endTime":415.1,"body":"is swimming in reports."},{"startTime":415.11,"endTime":416.98,"body":"Everyone knows what to do,"},{"startTime":415.11,"endTime":416.98,"body":"but no one is doing it."},{"startTime":417.48,"endTime":421.92,"body":"And so then I reached out to, as part of"},{"startTime":417.48,"endTime":421.92,"body":"our diligence process, some of the real"},{"startTime":421.92,"endTime":425.33,"body":"estate investors, property managers,"},{"startTime":421.92,"endTime":425.33,"body":"whoever, that are sort of in our network."},{"startTime":425.93,"endTime":428.84,"body":"And what I heard across the board"},{"startTime":425.93,"endTime":428.84,"body":"was that, yeah, it's all well"},{"startTime":428.84,"endTime":432.34,"body":"and good to get this report, but"},{"startTime":428.84,"endTime":432.34,"body":"actually we don't have the capex to"},{"startTime":432.34,"endTime":433.91,"body":"invest in improving the buildings."},{"startTime":434.753,"endTime":439.333,"body":"So when they actually make these initial"},{"startTime":434.753,"endTime":439.333,"body":"transactions, and they have these"},{"startTime":439.343,"endTime":443.443,"body":"predictions of like, okay, I can increase"},{"startTime":439.343,"endTime":443.443,"body":"the rent by this much over this time"},{"startTime":443.443,"endTime":447.206,"body":"period, I'll make this much money on"},{"startTime":443.443,"endTime":447.206,"body":"it, I'll exit it in this time frame, you"},{"startTime":447.206,"endTime":451.353,"body":"know, they're not taking into account that"},{"startTime":447.206,"endTime":451.353,"body":"they're going to make a massive investment"},{"startTime":451.593,"endTime":453.703,"body":"in retrofitting over that time period."},{"startTime":454.053,"endTime":455.77,"body":"And so they've never budgeted that in."},{"startTime":455.77,"endTime":456.99,"body":"So they're not going to do it."},{"startTime":457.0,"endTime":459.14,"body":"It doesn't make sense"},{"startTime":457.0,"endTime":459.14,"body":"for their business model."},{"startTime":459.6,"endTime":464.567,"body":"And so that was sort of the aha moment"},{"startTime":459.6,"endTime":464.567,"body":"for me that I, that felt like the"},{"startTime":464.677,"endTime":471.127,"body":"gap between where everyone else is"},{"startTime":464.677,"endTime":471.127,"body":"sort of focusing and where the actual"},{"startTime":471.407,"endTime":473.577,"body":"barrier to implementation  lies."},{"startTime":474.027,"endTime":477.857,"body":"And so that's what I, that's what really"},{"startTime":474.027,"endTime":477.857,"body":"started me on my journey with upgrading"},{"startTime":477.857,"endTime":482.657,"body":"was, okay, how do you, first of all,"},{"startTime":477.857,"endTime":482.657,"body":"reduce that capex required in the first"},{"startTime":482.657,"endTime":484.517,"body":"place to something that's more realistic."},{"startTime":484.947,"endTime":489.627,"body":"And then the other side is, okay, is there"},{"startTime":484.947,"endTime":489.627,"body":"a way, and as part of that is there a"},{"startTime":489.627,"endTime":493.157,"body":"way to even get back some of that money"},{"startTime":489.627,"endTime":493.157,"body":"because, you know, their tenants are"},{"startTime":493.157,"endTime":496.087,"body":"the ones that are actually getting these"},{"startTime":493.157,"endTime":496.087,"body":"operational savings at the end of the day,"},{"startTime":496.407,"endTime":500.527,"body":"you know, the big game changer would be,"},{"startTime":496.407,"endTime":500.527,"body":"how do you turn this from a compliance"},{"startTime":500.557,"endTime":504.637,"body":"expense that no one wants to make into"},{"startTime":500.557,"endTime":504.637,"body":"actually a source of revenue where"},{"startTime":504.637,"endTime":506.447,"body":"people really see it as an investment?"},{"startTime":507.552,"endTime":507.892,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":507.892,"endTime":511.388,"body":"So then you set up UpGreen to do this."},{"startTime":539.947,"endTime":541.0870000000001,"body":"Exactly, exactly."},{"startTime":541.0870000000001,"endTime":546.3580000000001,"body":"And I, and definitely there's been so"},{"startTime":541.0870000000001,"endTime":546.3580000000001,"body":"much iteration in terms of how we do that."},{"startTime":546.658,"endTime":551.268,"body":"So the 1st, for example, 1 of my 1st"},{"startTime":546.658,"endTime":551.268,"body":"ideas was that we would generate carbon"},{"startTime":551.268,"endTime":555.738,"body":"credits for these projects, so effectively"},{"startTime":551.268,"endTime":555.738,"body":"in the same way that, you know, you"},{"startTime":555.738,"endTime":559.548,"body":"generate carbon credits from preserving"},{"startTime":555.738,"endTime":559.548,"body":"a forest or from planting a tree."},{"startTime":559.9380000000001,"endTime":563.488,"body":"You would generate carbon credits"},{"startTime":559.9380000000001,"endTime":563.488,"body":"from basically saving carbon from"},{"startTime":563.488,"endTime":566.618,"body":"doing these retrofit interventions"},{"startTime":563.488,"endTime":566.618,"body":"on buildings that otherwise wouldn't"},{"startTime":566.628,"endTime":568.128,"body":"have had these retrofits done."},{"startTime":568.5880000000001,"endTime":572.0680000000001,"body":"And that way you can fund them separately"},{"startTime":568.5880000000001,"endTime":572.0680000000001,"body":"as well, because different people can"},{"startTime":572.0680000000001,"endTime":576.988,"body":"effectively invest in those projects,"},{"startTime":572.0680000000001,"endTime":576.988,"body":"generate carbon credits and get, the"},{"startTime":576.988,"endTime":578.898,"body":"offsets from doing that, basically."},{"startTime":579.538,"endTime":584.653,"body":"And so I thought that would be like a"},{"startTime":579.538,"endTime":584.653,"body":"kind of elegant solution, but that being"},{"startTime":584.653,"endTime":589.403,"body":"said, I actually looked into it and it was"},{"startTime":584.653,"endTime":589.403,"body":"an incredibly complex way of doing that."},{"startTime":589.8230000000001,"endTime":592.9830000000001,"body":"So one of the challenges with that, I"},{"startTime":589.8230000000001,"endTime":592.9830000000001,"body":"think one of the core challenges was"},{"startTime":593.003,"endTime":596.633,"body":"that you have to prove additionality"},{"startTime":593.003,"endTime":596.633,"body":"when you're generating a carbon credit."},{"startTime":596.643,"endTime":600.82,"body":"So, I mean, this is something I know"},{"startTime":596.643,"endTime":600.82,"body":"from my day job in climate VC, but"},{"startTime":600.82,"endTime":604.2700000000001,"body":"basically if you're generating a carbon"},{"startTime":600.82,"endTime":604.2700000000001,"body":"credit, you need to prove that this"},{"startTime":604.413,"endTime":608.667,"body":"carbon removal wouldn't have happened"},{"startTime":604.413,"endTime":608.667,"body":"in any other way if you weren't there,"},{"startTime":609.2170000000001,"endTime":613.177,"body":"which is really difficult to do in this"},{"startTime":609.2170000000001,"endTime":613.177,"body":"context, because you're not basically"},{"startTime":613.177,"endTime":616.7270000000001,"body":"saying, you know, you're protecting this"},{"startTime":613.177,"endTime":616.7270000000001,"body":"forest, which would have otherwise been,"},{"startTime":617.057,"endTime":618.677,"body":"exploited for some reason or other."},{"startTime":619.3470000000001,"endTime":620.657,"body":"You're basically saying."},{"startTime":621.072,"endTime":624.402,"body":"You're investing in this building"},{"startTime":621.072,"endTime":624.402,"body":"that would never have been invested"},{"startTime":624.402,"endTime":626.642,"body":"in, and it's quite difficult to"},{"startTime":624.402,"endTime":626.642,"body":"prove that it would never have been"},{"startTime":626.642,"endTime":628.692,"body":"invested in, basically, without you."},{"startTime":628.692,"endTime":628.7220000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":629.8420000000001,"endTime":632.5920000000001,"body":"I think the, and so that's like"},{"startTime":629.8420000000001,"endTime":632.5920000000001,"body":"the core challenge, I would say."},{"startTime":632.8620000000001,"endTime":636.142,"body":"And that's what makes it really difficult"},{"startTime":632.8620000000001,"endTime":636.142,"body":"to create a framework that's then"},{"startTime":636.142,"endTime":640.042,"body":"verifiable, and that other people will"},{"startTime":636.142,"endTime":640.042,"body":"buy credits from, and all these things."},{"startTime":640.042,"endTime":643.6220000000001,"body":"And of course, then, even assuming"},{"startTime":640.042,"endTime":643.6220000000001,"body":"you did all that, every carbon"},{"startTime":643.6220000000001,"endTime":646.2620000000001,"body":"credit project struggles with"},{"startTime":643.6220000000001,"endTime":646.2620000000001,"body":"actually pre selling those credits."},{"startTime":646.2620000000001,"endTime":648.0820000000001,"body":"There are so few buyers,"},{"startTime":646.2620000000001,"endTime":648.0820000000001,"body":"all of these sort of things."},{"startTime":648.392,"endTime":652.042,"body":"So it basically felt like actually quite"},{"startTime":648.392,"endTime":652.042,"body":"an inefficient way of solving the problem."},{"startTime":652.2520000000001,"endTime":655.772,"body":"And in the process of doing this whole"},{"startTime":652.2520000000001,"endTime":655.772,"body":"carbon credit, like sort of deep dive,"},{"startTime":656.1320000000001,"endTime":661.008,"body":"I found that there are enough savings"},{"startTime":656.1320000000001,"endTime":661.008,"body":"and sort of levers that you can pull"},{"startTime":661.2280000000001,"endTime":663.0680000000001,"body":"to make just the core business work."},{"startTime":663.1080000000001,"endTime":666.998,"body":"So what I mean by that is there"},{"startTime":663.1080000000001,"endTime":666.998,"body":"are a few levers that change the"},{"startTime":666.998,"endTime":669.038,"body":"economics of these retrofit projects."},{"startTime":669.518,"endTime":672.388,"body":"So one is the projects"},{"startTime":669.518,"endTime":672.388,"body":"that you do themselves."},{"startTime":672.778,"endTime":676.538,"body":"Most of the time when people get"},{"startTime":672.778,"endTime":676.538,"body":"sort of a retrofit plan, they get"},{"startTime":676.538,"endTime":677.998,"body":"a comprehensive retrofit plan."},{"startTime":677.998,"endTime":681.008,"body":"So they get everything that you could"},{"startTime":677.998,"endTime":681.008,"body":"possibly do to make this building"},{"startTime":681.038,"endTime":686.258,"body":"as energy efficient as possible,"},{"startTime":681.038,"endTime":686.258,"body":"rather than actually, here's like the"},{"startTime":686.268,"endTime":690.6780000000001,"body":"minimum few things that would make the"},{"startTime":686.268,"endTime":690.6780000000001,"body":"biggest difference per pound spent."},{"startTime":691.3580000000001,"endTime":695.158,"body":"And so I think the first is, okay, what"},{"startTime":691.3580000000001,"endTime":695.158,"body":"are the projects you're actually choosing?"},{"startTime":695.158,"endTime":700.778,"body":"You can like significantly narrow"},{"startTime":695.158,"endTime":700.778,"body":"that list by being quite intense"},{"startTime":700.8180000000001,"endTime":705.5780000000001,"body":"about, what the ROI is on each of"},{"startTime":700.8180000000001,"endTime":705.5780000000001,"body":"those interventions and the specific"},{"startTime":705.768,"endTime":707.648,"body":"attributable ROI to each one."},{"startTime":707.8580000000001,"endTime":708.378,"body":"So that's one."},{"startTime":709.4150000000001,"endTime":712.5350000000001,"body":"The other is the savings that"},{"startTime":709.4150000000001,"endTime":712.5350000000001,"body":"you're getting from that."},{"startTime":712.5450000000001,"endTime":715.8950000000001,"body":"So who is the savings going to and"},{"startTime":712.5450000000001,"endTime":715.8950000000001,"body":"how much of it can you take back?"},{"startTime":716.4250000000001,"endTime":720.5250000000001,"body":"So, for example, if I'm able to do"},{"startTime":716.4250000000001,"endTime":720.5250000000001,"body":"some insulation on a building and I"},{"startTime":720.5250000000001,"endTime":725.9250000000001,"body":"know that that will save you like 10%"},{"startTime":720.5250000000001,"endTime":725.9250000000001,"body":"on your bills, we can capture,  2% of"},{"startTime":725.9250000000001,"endTime":732.25,"body":"that, we can capture, 99% of that 10%"},{"startTime":725.9250000000001,"endTime":732.25,"body":"that you're saving, and that will change"},{"startTime":732.25,"endTime":734.12,"body":"the economics of your project as well."},{"startTime":734.96,"endTime":738.35,"body":"And then finally, another"},{"startTime":734.96,"endTime":738.35,"body":"lever is around the pricing of"},{"startTime":738.35,"endTime":739.82,"body":"the interventions themselves."},{"startTime":740.35,"endTime":744.8000000000001,"body":"So if you you Google and you go on"},{"startTime":740.35,"endTime":744.8000000000001,"body":"Trustpilot and you find someone to"},{"startTime":744.8000000000001,"endTime":747.87,"body":"do insulation in your house, they"},{"startTime":744.8000000000001,"endTime":747.87,"body":"will give you a certain price that's"},{"startTime":747.87,"endTime":753.767,"body":"usually, about 30% margin on whatever"},{"startTime":747.87,"endTime":753.767,"body":"their materials costs and labor costs"},{"startTime":753.767,"endTime":756.7370000000001,"body":"something along these lines, because"},{"startTime":753.767,"endTime":756.7370000000001,"body":"of course they have to make money too."},{"startTime":756.8570000000001,"endTime":760.437,"body":"But when you're able to actually"},{"startTime":756.8570000000001,"endTime":760.437,"body":"aggregate a lot of those projects"},{"startTime":760.437,"endTime":763.8570000000001,"body":"and give them in volume, a) it makes"},{"startTime":760.437,"endTime":763.8570000000001,"body":"their job easier because they're"},{"startTime":763.8570000000001,"endTime":765.167,"body":"doing the same project over and over."},{"startTime":765.177,"endTime":768.3770000000001,"body":"They're not doing, having to like"},{"startTime":765.177,"endTime":768.3770000000001,"body":"spec and design something new for each"},{"startTime":768.3770000000001,"endTime":771.407,"body":"building, which is what happens when you"},{"startTime":768.3770000000001,"endTime":771.407,"body":"put so many of these things together."},{"startTime":772.047,"endTime":775.182,"body":"The other side is that of course,"},{"startTime":772.047,"endTime":775.182,"body":"you're giving them a lot more business,"},{"startTime":775.4820000000001,"endTime":777.422,"body":"and so you end up getting a discount."},{"startTime":777.422,"endTime":781.162,"body":"So instead of let's say a 30%"},{"startTime":777.422,"endTime":781.162,"body":"margin, you get a 10 or 20%"},{"startTime":781.162,"endTime":784.4820000000001,"body":"margin, which significantly"},{"startTime":781.162,"endTime":784.4820000000001,"body":"reduces the cost at that scale."},{"startTime":784.9920000000001,"endTime":790.552,"body":"And so the price at which you're doing"},{"startTime":784.9920000000001,"endTime":790.552,"body":"these projects is another sort of lever"},{"startTime":790.6170000000001,"endTime":792.7070000000001,"body":"that you have around reducing that cost."},{"startTime":792.7170000000001,"endTime":795.807,"body":"So I think between the projects you're"},{"startTime":792.7170000000001,"endTime":795.807,"body":"actually doing, the price at which"},{"startTime":795.807,"endTime":798.5870000000001,"body":"you're doing them and the savings"},{"startTime":795.807,"endTime":798.5870000000001,"body":"you're able to recover, you can"},{"startTime":798.5870000000001,"endTime":802.8870000000001,"body":"significantly change those unit economics"},{"startTime":798.5870000000001,"endTime":802.8870000000001,"body":"to make those retrofit projects work."},{"startTime":803.2270000000001,"endTime":805.7470000000001,"body":"Those are really the levers"},{"startTime":803.2270000000001,"endTime":805.7470000000001,"body":"that Upgreen is focused on."},{"startTime":805.7470000000001,"endTime":810.037,"body":"So we have an analysis sort of"},{"startTime":805.7470000000001,"endTime":810.037,"body":"product that identifies those minimum"},{"startTime":810.037,"endTime":815.9570000000001,"body":"projects necessary across a portfolio"},{"startTime":810.037,"endTime":815.9570000000001,"body":"that will move your EPC to the"},{"startTime":815.9670000000001,"endTime":819.8570000000001,"body":"minimum standard at the lowest cost."},{"startTime":820.6120000000001,"endTime":822.985,"body":"Then we have a network of installers."},{"startTime":822.985,"endTime":826.1350000000001,"body":"So we've partnered with the Installation"},{"startTime":822.985,"endTime":826.1350000000001,"body":"Assurance Authority and we've partnered"},{"startTime":826.1550000000001,"endTime":830.5250000000001,"body":"with 150 installers through them to"},{"startTime":826.1550000000001,"endTime":830.5250000000001,"body":"effectively get much better pricing on"},{"startTime":830.5350000000001,"endTime":832.0450000000001,"body":"those projects that we bring to them."},{"startTime":832.5450000000001,"endTime":835.0350000000001,"body":"And then finally, we"},{"startTime":832.5450000000001,"endTime":835.0350000000001,"body":"work with their tenants."},{"startTime":835.6300000000001,"endTime":839.72,"body":"actually scope how much money they"},{"startTime":835.6300000000001,"endTime":839.72,"body":"will save based on the project"},{"startTime":839.72,"endTime":841.0600000000001,"body":"that we're doing in their unit."},{"startTime":841.3900000000001,"endTime":844.6800000000001,"body":"And then we set a fee that's"},{"startTime":841.3900000000001,"endTime":844.6800000000001,"body":"a percentage of that savings."},{"startTime":844.72,"endTime":848.6,"body":"Basically, they pay us monthly and"},{"startTime":844.72,"endTime":848.6,"body":"we pass that back to the owners."},{"startTime":848.61,"endTime":850.49,"body":"So we're able to change"},{"startTime":848.61,"endTime":850.49,"body":"those unit economics."},{"startTime":850.75,"endTime":854.0400000000001,"body":"And just to give you some high level"},{"startTime":850.75,"endTime":854.0400000000001,"body":"numbers, we can generally reduce"},{"startTime":854.0400000000001,"endTime":858.9100000000001,"body":"the cost of a retrofit compared"},{"startTime":854.0400000000001,"endTime":858.9100000000001,"body":"to like a full plan by around 80%."},{"startTime":859.5200000000001,"endTime":865.73,"body":"And then we can usually recover on"},{"startTime":859.5200000000001,"endTime":865.73,"body":"average, around 60% of the costs over"},{"startTime":865.73,"endTime":868.8800000000001,"body":"the course of their tenants leases"},{"startTime":865.73,"endTime":868.8800000000001,"body":"through that tenant cost recovery"},{"startTime":868.8800000000001,"endTime":873.97,"body":"process and up to I mean, that's like"},{"startTime":868.8800000000001,"endTime":873.97,"body":"sort of the average case scenario."},{"startTime":873.97,"endTime":877.927,"body":"I'd say like the best case scenario"},{"startTime":873.97,"endTime":877.927,"body":"is we've seen funds where we can"},{"startTime":877.927,"endTime":882.0070000000001,"body":"even make it a source of revenue"},{"startTime":877.927,"endTime":882.0070000000001,"body":"so we can actually 4x their initial"},{"startTime":882.0070000000001,"endTime":883.817,"body":"investment in those retrofits."},{"startTime":885.187,"endTime":887.6370000000001,"body":"And that's not even talking about"},{"startTime":885.187,"endTime":887.6370000000001,"body":"the carbon savings, of course."},{"startTime":889.787,"endTime":890.2270000000001,"body":"okay."},{"startTime":890.667,"endTime":891.907,"body":"Can you talk about the carbon savings?"},{"startTime":893.0820000000001,"endTime":894.3420000000001,"body":"Yes, we definitely can."},{"startTime":894.7420000000001,"endTime":897.3720000000001,"body":"So I could to give you like a little"},{"startTime":894.7420000000001,"endTime":897.3720000000001,"body":"bit of context in the first place"},{"startTime":897.682,"endTime":901.322,"body":"the built environment contributes"},{"startTime":897.682,"endTime":901.322,"body":"around 40% of global carbon emissions."},{"startTime":901.3320000000001,"endTime":905.7620000000001,"body":"So it is a massive chunk in terms"},{"startTime":901.3320000000001,"endTime":905.7620000000001,"body":"of what we're talking about."},{"startTime":906.202,"endTime":909.4820000000001,"body":"Commercial buildings waste"},{"startTime":906.202,"endTime":909.4820000000001,"body":"20 to 30% of energy annually."},{"startTime":909.4820000000001,"endTime":912.4920000000001,"body":"And I think that the interesting"},{"startTime":909.4820000000001,"endTime":912.4920000000001,"body":"thing to think about there is that"},{"startTime":913.0120000000001,"endTime":916.4920000000001,"body":"there are sort of a few things"},{"startTime":913.0120000000001,"endTime":916.4920000000001,"body":"that are really contributing to"},{"startTime":916.5150000000001,"endTime":918.085,"body":"that commercial energy usage."},{"startTime":918.085,"endTime":920.085,"body":"One is their operational usage, right?"},{"startTime":920.085,"endTime":923.6850000000001,"body":"So, for example, if you're in a"},{"startTime":920.085,"endTime":923.6850000000001,"body":"restaurant or using an oven or stove or"},{"startTime":923.6850000000001,"endTime":927.5250000000001,"body":"whatever, all of those things take power,"},{"startTime":923.6850000000001,"endTime":927.5250000000001,"body":"sometimes gas, sometimes electricity."},{"startTime":927.5250000000001,"endTime":929.865,"body":"But all of those contribute"},{"startTime":927.5250000000001,"endTime":929.865,"body":"to your energy usage."},{"startTime":930.5050000000001,"endTime":933.6350000000001,"body":"On the other hand, there's the"},{"startTime":930.5050000000001,"endTime":933.6350000000001,"body":"things that are due to your building."},{"startTime":933.845,"endTime":935.205,"body":"So that's embodied carbon."},{"startTime":935.205,"endTime":938.725,"body":"That's like the actual material of"},{"startTime":935.205,"endTime":938.725,"body":"your building, which is not as much"},{"startTime":938.725,"endTime":942.725,"body":"what we're focused on, but things like,"},{"startTime":938.725,"endTime":942.725,"body":"okay, you're running, your heating, but"},{"startTime":942.725,"endTime":946.2650000000001,"body":"you're running it over time because your"},{"startTime":942.725,"endTime":946.2650000000001,"body":"building is really leaky or your windows"},{"startTime":946.2650000000001,"endTime":947.475,"body":"are really leaky or whatever it is."},{"startTime":947.7750000000001,"endTime":951.945,"body":"We're really focused on those sort"},{"startTime":947.7750000000001,"endTime":951.945,"body":"of fabric elements of the building"},{"startTime":951.945,"endTime":955.865,"body":"itself that make the biggest"},{"startTime":951.945,"endTime":955.865,"body":"difference in terms of the energy"},{"startTime":955.865,"endTime":958.0250000000001,"body":"usage of those commercial units."},{"startTime":958.575,"endTime":960.815,"body":"The other thing to note, I think"},{"startTime":958.575,"endTime":960.815,"body":"I mentioned this earlier is that"},{"startTime":960.815,"endTime":965.995,"body":"87% of buildings require upgrades"},{"startTime":960.815,"endTime":965.995,"body":"within five years to meet the current"},{"startTime":966.0150000000001,"endTime":967.4150000000001,"body":"regulations that are out there."},{"startTime":967.595,"endTime":971.1650000000001,"body":"So there are sort of, you know,"},{"startTime":967.595,"endTime":971.1650000000001,"body":"incentives for getting this stuff done."},{"startTime":971.1650000000001,"endTime":972.6650000000001,"body":"And there's a deadline basically."},{"startTime":973.485,"endTime":978.297,"body":"I think in terms of the carbon numbers"},{"startTime":973.485,"endTime":978.297,"body":"more than a billion square feet"},{"startTime":978.3570000000001,"endTime":979.907,"body":"of commercial property in the UK."},{"startTime":980.2070000000001,"endTime":985.297,"body":"That's under EPC E. So, you know, C is"},{"startTime":980.2070000000001,"endTime":985.297,"body":"kind of the, the goal that we're trying"},{"startTime":985.297,"endTime":990.6170000000001,"body":"to get to by 2030, but there's still a"},{"startTime":985.297,"endTime":990.6170000000001,"body":"billion square feet of property that's,"},{"startTime":990.647,"endTime":993.167,"body":"you know, two levels below that or below."},{"startTime":993.517,"endTime":997.647,"body":"And that technically at the"},{"startTime":993.517,"endTime":997.647,"body":"moment can't be let or sold."},{"startTime":998.177,"endTime":1002.797,"body":"So according to the current regulation,"},{"startTime":998.177,"endTime":1002.797,"body":"if it's under EPC E, they need to"},{"startTime":1002.797,"endTime":1008.327,"body":"bring it up to at least an E in order"},{"startTime":1002.797,"endTime":1008.327,"body":"to even rent it or sell it, even to"},{"startTime":1008.327,"endTime":1010.5870000000001,"body":"renew the current tenants leases."},{"startTime":1010.8770000000001,"endTime":1014.8770000000001,"body":"So there's a significant sort of"},{"startTime":1010.8770000000001,"endTime":1014.8770000000001,"body":"like urgency on that side as well."},{"startTime":1015.5070000000001,"endTime":1019.5820000000001,"body":"And what we know is that each"},{"startTime":1015.5070000000001,"endTime":1019.5820000000001,"body":"square meter releases around 11."},{"startTime":1019.8620000000001,"endTime":1024.05,"body":"65, so around 12 kilograms"},{"startTime":1019.8620000000001,"endTime":1024.05,"body":"of CO2 emissions per year."},{"startTime":1025.05,"endTime":1030.15,"body":"So our beachhead, so just that"},{"startTime":1025.05,"endTime":1030.15,"body":"EPCE and below that needs to be"},{"startTime":1030.15,"endTime":1036.49,"body":"done immediately releases around"},{"startTime":1030.15,"endTime":1036.49,"body":"190,000 metric tons of CO2 annually."},{"startTime":1037.13,"endTime":1041.47,"body":"So it's a pretty big, just even"},{"startTime":1037.13,"endTime":1041.47,"body":"though that, that beachhead"},{"startTime":1041.48,"endTime":1045.59,"body":"market of what needs to change"},{"startTime":1041.48,"endTime":1045.59,"body":"immediately is a massive opportunity."},{"startTime":1046.04,"endTime":1049.61,"body":"And as you're extending and kind of"},{"startTime":1046.04,"endTime":1049.61,"body":"just doing this low hanging fruit stuff"},{"startTime":1049.87,"endTime":1054.645,"body":"across and getting it to the minimum"},{"startTime":1049.87,"endTime":1054.645,"body":"energy efficiency standard by 2030."},{"startTime":1054.915,"endTime":1057.375,"body":"You can really make a dent in that 40%."},{"startTime":1058.31,"endTime":1058.68,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1058.74,"endTime":1059.3300000000002,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1059.6000000000001,"endTime":1063.49,"body":"And you're talking"},{"startTime":1059.6000000000001,"endTime":1063.49,"body":"specifically about the UK."},{"startTime":1064.22,"endTime":1067.97,"body":"How does the UK compare to other"},{"startTime":1064.22,"endTime":1067.97,"body":"countries in tackling energy efficiency?"},{"startTime":1067.97,"endTime":1071.31,"body":"I mean, you said it's got some"},{"startTime":1067.97,"endTime":1071.31,"body":"of the oldest housing stock and"},{"startTime":1071.31,"endTime":1073.22,"body":"property stock in the world."},{"startTime":1074.0,"endTime":1075.03,"body":"How are other countries doing?"},{"startTime":1075.05,"endTime":1080.24,"body":"And is this something that you'll be able"},{"startTime":1075.05,"endTime":1080.24,"body":"to help other countries with as well?"},{"startTime":1080.25,"endTime":1084.38,"body":"I mean, you're building your"},{"startTime":1080.25,"endTime":1084.38,"body":"platform based on regs in the"},{"startTime":1084.38,"endTime":1086.64,"body":"UK, will that be transferable?"},{"startTime":1086.65,"endTime":1088.78,"body":"Can you kind of copy and"},{"startTime":1086.65,"endTime":1088.78,"body":"paste into other markets?"},{"startTime":1089.3,"endTime":1093.045,"body":"So you do have quite a similar"},{"startTime":1089.3,"endTime":1093.045,"body":"regulatory environment in the EU."},{"startTime":1093.055,"endTime":1096.785,"body":"For example, I mean, each country"},{"startTime":1093.055,"endTime":1096.785,"body":"does differ slightly, but for example,"},{"startTime":1097.255,"endTime":1101.601,"body":"Germany, France have very, very"},{"startTime":1097.255,"endTime":1101.601,"body":"similar kind of regulatory regimes."},{"startTime":1102.361,"endTime":1104.271,"body":"There's some countries that"},{"startTime":1102.361,"endTime":1104.271,"body":"are much, much further ahead."},{"startTime":1104.511,"endTime":1107.661,"body":"So countries like the Netherlands, for"},{"startTime":1104.511,"endTime":1107.661,"body":"example, one of our clients has some"},{"startTime":1107.661,"endTime":1109.281,"body":"buildings in the Netherlands as well."},{"startTime":1109.5710000000001,"endTime":1113.5610000000001,"body":"We were speaking to their team and"},{"startTime":1109.5710000000001,"endTime":1113.5610000000001,"body":"they literally couldn't find a single"},{"startTime":1113.5610000000001,"endTime":1118.6960000000001,"body":"building that was bad, or badly"},{"startTime":1113.5610000000001,"endTime":1118.6960000000001,"body":"performing enough for us to be able"},{"startTime":1118.6960000000001,"endTime":1122.1660000000002,"body":"to support them with because they've"},{"startTime":1118.6960000000001,"endTime":1122.1660000000002,"body":"already needed to renovate everything"},{"startTime":1122.1660000000002,"endTime":1123.326,"body":"to get it to a certain standard."},{"startTime":1123.326,"endTime":1127.4660000000001,"body":"So they're really thinking about"},{"startTime":1123.326,"endTime":1127.4660000000001,"body":"getting things from a C to an A, not"},{"startTime":1127.476,"endTime":1130.826,"body":"getting things from an E to a C. So"},{"startTime":1127.476,"endTime":1130.826,"body":"I think there are countries where"},{"startTime":1130.856,"endTime":1134.6660000000002,"body":"regulation has already incentivised"},{"startTime":1130.856,"endTime":1134.6660000000002,"body":"quite a bit of progress, which, to"},{"startTime":1134.6660000000002,"endTime":1136.316,"body":"be honest, is not really our focus."},{"startTime":1136.326,"endTime":1138.496,"body":"So we haven't really focused"},{"startTime":1136.326,"endTime":1138.496,"body":"as much on those markets."},{"startTime":1138.736,"endTime":1141.5430000000001,"body":"But I would say places like"},{"startTime":1138.736,"endTime":1141.5430000000001,"body":"Germany, places like France have"},{"startTime":1141.5430000000001,"endTime":1144.913,"body":"a lot of the same characteristics"},{"startTime":1141.5430000000001,"endTime":1144.913,"body":"as the buildings in the UK."},{"startTime":1146.093,"endTime":1150.323,"body":"That being said, I think the UK is"},{"startTime":1146.093,"endTime":1150.323,"body":"actually relatively further ahead because"},{"startTime":1150.323,"endTime":1152.643,"body":"of the public data that's available."},{"startTime":1152.933,"endTime":1158.02,"body":"So France and the UK actually have"},{"startTime":1152.933,"endTime":1158.02,"body":"all of the energy performance data."},{"startTime":1158.05,"endTime":1160.365,"body":"So all of these commercial"},{"startTime":1158.05,"endTime":1160.365,"body":"buildings as well as residential"},{"startTime":1160.365,"endTime":1163.395,"body":"buildings, commercial buildings"},{"startTime":1160.365,"endTime":1163.395,"body":"need to have an energy performance"},{"startTime":1163.4550000000002,"endTime":1165.275,"body":"assessment done every 10 years."},{"startTime":1165.9450000000002,"endTime":1169.2150000000001,"body":"And all of that data is"},{"startTime":1165.9450000000002,"endTime":1169.2150000000001,"body":"currently public in the UK, and"},{"startTime":1169.2150000000001,"endTime":1170.385,"body":"that's actually quite helpful."},{"startTime":1170.385,"endTime":1172.155,"body":"I mean, there's a lot of problems with it."},{"startTime":1172.155,"endTime":1174.4450000000002,"body":"Lots of startups will tell you,"},{"startTime":1172.155,"endTime":1174.4450000000002,"body":"or lots of people will tell"},{"startTime":1174.4450000000002,"endTime":1176.855,"body":"you about all the problems with"},{"startTime":1174.4450000000002,"endTime":1176.855,"body":"energy performance certificates"},{"startTime":1177.2050000000002,"endTime":1179.025,"body":"and how inaccurate they can be."},{"startTime":1179.585,"endTime":1183.575,"body":"But that being said, at least you have a"},{"startTime":1179.585,"endTime":1183.575,"body":"baseline on all the buildings, which does"},{"startTime":1183.575,"endTime":1187.425,"body":"not exist, for example, in a place like"},{"startTime":1183.575,"endTime":1187.425,"body":"Germany, where that is not public data."},{"startTime":1187.875,"endTime":1190.755,"body":"So when we work with our clients that"},{"startTime":1187.875,"endTime":1190.755,"body":"have buildings in Germany, they have to"},{"startTime":1190.755,"endTime":1197.265,"body":"send us individual kind of PDF reports"},{"startTime":1190.755,"endTime":1197.265,"body":"for each building that has not all of"},{"startTime":1197.265,"endTime":1199.375,"body":"this data, but some of this data in it."},{"startTime":1199.675,"endTime":1204.605,"body":"You have to parse through it and sort"},{"startTime":1199.675,"endTime":1204.605,"body":"of you lack that much larger data set to"},{"startTime":1204.605,"endTime":1208.845,"body":"effectively build like AI algorithms or"},{"startTime":1204.605,"endTime":1208.845,"body":"ML algorithms that would help make your"},{"startTime":1209.4850000000001,"endTime":1211.2150000000001,"body":"predictions much, much more accurate."},{"startTime":1211.7450000000001,"endTime":1215.75,"body":"So I think that's definitely a challenge"},{"startTime":1211.7450000000001,"endTime":1215.75,"body":"in the German market in particular."},{"startTime":1215.75,"endTime":1218.44,"body":"And that's actually where we're"},{"startTime":1215.75,"endTime":1218.44,"body":"starting at the moment outside the UK."},{"startTime":1218.8600000000001,"endTime":1222.71,"body":"So we are working with our current"},{"startTime":1218.8600000000001,"endTime":1222.71,"body":"clients that have holdings in"},{"startTime":1222.71,"endTime":1226.0700000000002,"body":"Germany as well for us to start"},{"startTime":1222.71,"endTime":1226.0700000000002,"body":"working on some of those buildings."},{"startTime":1226.0800000000002,"endTime":1229.02,"body":"But yeah, these are exactly kind of"},{"startTime":1226.0800000000002,"endTime":1229.02,"body":"the challenges that we're running into."},{"startTime":1230.19,"endTime":1233.13,"body":"The other thing that we have"},{"startTime":1230.19,"endTime":1233.13,"body":"struggled with in, in that market"},{"startTime":1233.16,"endTime":1237.98,"body":"as well is that, they do their"},{"startTime":1233.16,"endTime":1237.98,"body":"energy performance assessments on a"},{"startTime":1237.99,"endTime":1239.89,"body":"building level and not a unit level."},{"startTime":1240.05,"endTime":1243.96,"body":"So that's the other nice thing about"},{"startTime":1240.05,"endTime":1243.96,"body":"the UK is that you effectively have much"},{"startTime":1243.96,"endTime":1248.71,"body":"more specific data because you have data"},{"startTime":1243.96,"endTime":1248.71,"body":"on every single unit within a building,"},{"startTime":1249.0900000000001,"endTime":1252.96,"body":"which helps us in our, especially in"},{"startTime":1249.0900000000001,"endTime":1252.96,"body":"our model, because we work with tenants"},{"startTime":1252.96,"endTime":1254.17,"body":"actually recover some of their costs."},{"startTime":1254.17,"endTime":1259.5,"body":"So we need to know on a per unit level"},{"startTime":1254.17,"endTime":1259.5,"body":"what's what's in it for them specifically,"},{"startTime":1259.5800000000002,"endTime":1261.3400000000001,"body":"not just what's in it for their building."},{"startTime":1261.6200000000001,"endTime":1265.43,"body":"So I think that's that's a bit of a"},{"startTime":1261.6200000000001,"endTime":1265.43,"body":"struggle as well as we're having to"},{"startTime":1265.44,"endTime":1269.15,"body":"adapt our algorithms and our product"},{"startTime":1265.44,"endTime":1269.15,"body":"to be able to actually predict what's"},{"startTime":1269.15,"endTime":1273.01,"body":"happening on a per unit basis based on"},{"startTime":1269.15,"endTime":1273.01,"body":"the information we have on a building."},{"startTime":1273.525,"endTime":1276.415,"body":"And so that's a little bit of a"},{"startTime":1273.525,"endTime":1276.415,"body":"challenge in the German market as well."},{"startTime":1276.415,"endTime":1279.095,"body":"And part of our"},{"startTime":1276.415,"endTime":1279.095,"body":"internationalisation challenges."},{"startTime":1279.595,"endTime":1284.605,"body":"But that being said, I think a lot of the"},{"startTime":1279.595,"endTime":1284.605,"body":"regulatory environment is quite similar."},{"startTime":1284.925,"endTime":1289.7150000000001,"body":"I think some of the data availability is"},{"startTime":1284.925,"endTime":1289.7150000000001,"body":"different and the way they measure energy"},{"startTime":1289.7150000000001,"endTime":1291.5700000000002,"body":"efficiency can be a little bit different."},{"startTime":1291.9,"endTime":1295.21,"body":"I think the final thing is that in"},{"startTime":1291.9,"endTime":1295.21,"body":"Germany in a lot of these countries,"},{"startTime":1295.43,"endTime":1299.5,"body":"the way the regulations work in terms"},{"startTime":1295.43,"endTime":1299.5,"body":"of how much the tenant is responsible"},{"startTime":1299.5,"endTime":1303.9,"body":"for versus how much the owner is"},{"startTime":1299.5,"endTime":1303.9,"body":"responsible for can be super different."},{"startTime":1304.5700000000002,"endTime":1308.53,"body":"So for example, in Germany, you"},{"startTime":1304.5700000000002,"endTime":1308.53,"body":"can pass on a lot more of the costs"},{"startTime":1309.0700000000002,"endTime":1314.43,"body":"for renovations, if it's certain"},{"startTime":1309.0700000000002,"endTime":1314.43,"body":"types of renovations to a tenant."},{"startTime":1314.45,"endTime":1316.69,"body":"So effectively, you can either"},{"startTime":1314.45,"endTime":1316.69,"body":"increase their rent or increase"},{"startTime":1316.69,"endTime":1322.875,"body":"their service charge to cover those"},{"startTime":1316.69,"endTime":1322.875,"body":"costs, which reduces, I suppose, our"},{"startTime":1322.885,"endTime":1324.915,"body":"value proposition in those markets."},{"startTime":1325.425,"endTime":1330.605,"body":"But I think the nice thing is that when"},{"startTime":1325.425,"endTime":1330.605,"body":"we, it is like, I guess ours is a bit"},{"startTime":1330.605,"endTime":1332.325,"body":"more of a tenant friendly proposition."},{"startTime":1332.615,"endTime":1335.875,"body":"So effectively, rather than just"},{"startTime":1332.615,"endTime":1335.875,"body":"increasing your rent, we will"},{"startTime":1335.875,"endTime":1339.935,"body":"actually save you some money and like"},{"startTime":1335.875,"endTime":1339.935,"body":"quantify that we're taking we'll allow"},{"startTime":1339.935,"endTime":1341.7050000000002,"body":"you to still keep some basically."},{"startTime":1342.135,"endTime":1344.2450000000001,"body":"So as opposed to just"},{"startTime":1342.135,"endTime":1344.2450000000001,"body":"going off of the costs."},{"startTime":1344.73,"endTime":1349.1200000000001,"body":"And likely having that be more than"},{"startTime":1344.73,"endTime":1349.1200000000001,"body":"any savings that you're going to be"},{"startTime":1349.1200000000001,"endTime":1353.3200000000002,"body":"achieving, because we sort of do that"},{"startTime":1349.1200000000001,"endTime":1353.3200000000002,"body":"optimisation problem in the first place"},{"startTime":1353.3200000000002,"endTime":1357.6000000000001,"body":"of only doing the projects where capturing"},{"startTime":1353.3200000000002,"endTime":1357.6000000000001,"body":"back a portion of the savings will cover"},{"startTime":1357.6000000000001,"endTime":1362.04,"body":"the initial costs, you're guaranteed to"},{"startTime":1357.6000000000001,"endTime":1362.04,"body":"basically not have to pay more than that."},{"startTime":1362.53,"endTime":1366.675,"body":"And so, I think in that way, we've been"},{"startTime":1362.53,"endTime":1366.675,"body":"trying to figure out kind of what our"},{"startTime":1366.685,"endTime":1371.4450000000002,"body":"marketing strategy is in in Germany and"},{"startTime":1366.685,"endTime":1371.4450000000002,"body":"in places where those regulations kind"},{"startTime":1371.4450000000002,"endTime":1375.435,"body":"of exist, because effectively, this is a"},{"startTime":1371.4450000000002,"endTime":1375.435,"body":"much more tenant friendly way of getting"},{"startTime":1375.4450000000002,"endTime":1380.755,"body":"those same interventions done than just"},{"startTime":1375.4450000000002,"endTime":1380.755,"body":"having that cost blindly passed on."},{"startTime":1381.8400000000001,"endTime":1382.19,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1382.22,"endTime":1385.8200000000002,"body":"And you're originally from"},{"startTime":1382.22,"endTime":1385.8200000000002,"body":"the US are you looking at the"},{"startTime":1385.8200000000002,"endTime":1387.13,"body":"North American market as well?"},{"startTime":1388.095,"endTime":1388.775,"body":"We are."},{"startTime":1388.825,"endTime":1392.105,"body":"I think there's definitely much more"},{"startTime":1388.825,"endTime":1392.105,"body":"variability in terms of the energy"},{"startTime":1392.105,"endTime":1397.345,"body":"efficiency regulation and how strict"},{"startTime":1392.105,"endTime":1397.345,"body":"people are in even on a city by city"},{"startTime":1397.345,"endTime":1401.575,"body":"basis, let alone on a kind of state by"},{"startTime":1397.345,"endTime":1401.575,"body":"state basis, for example, in the US."},{"startTime":1401.595,"endTime":1406.155,"body":"So, for example, New York has I'm"},{"startTime":1401.595,"endTime":1406.155,"body":"forgetting what the number is,"},{"startTime":1406.155,"endTime":1410.505,"body":"but it's a local law, something"},{"startTime":1406.155,"endTime":1410.505,"body":"that basically has a carbon limit."},{"startTime":1410.935,"endTime":1414.185,"body":"So you, you basically have a carbon"},{"startTime":1410.935,"endTime":1414.185,"body":"threshold for the amount of carbon"},{"startTime":1414.185,"endTime":1418.73,"body":"that your building can emit, and then"},{"startTime":1414.185,"endTime":1418.73,"body":"you pay taxes on anything above that."},{"startTime":1419.21,"endTime":1423.29,"body":"So, there's a lot more incentive,"},{"startTime":1419.21,"endTime":1423.29,"body":"basically, to actually retrofit"},{"startTime":1423.29,"endTime":1424.55,"body":"the older buildings in New York."},{"startTime":1424.55,"endTime":1427.6100000000001,"body":"Also, the other side is like New York"},{"startTime":1424.55,"endTime":1427.6100000000001,"body":"City has older buildings compared"},{"startTime":1427.6100000000001,"endTime":1428.5700000000002,"body":"to, let's say, the West Coast."},{"startTime":1429.48,"endTime":1431.3400000000001,"body":"And so you have more opportunity as well."},{"startTime":1431.3400000000001,"endTime":1433.74,"body":"So a lot of the same"},{"startTime":1431.3400000000001,"endTime":1433.74,"body":"incentives exist there."},{"startTime":1434.04,"endTime":1436.2,"body":"We are looking at the US market as well."},{"startTime":1436.22,"endTime":1440.2,"body":"We just haven't, a lot, our"},{"startTime":1436.22,"endTime":1440.2,"body":"current clients have mostly"},{"startTime":1440.2,"endTime":1441.91,"body":"their holdings in the EU and UK."},{"startTime":1441.91,"endTime":1444.6100000000001,"body":"So we're really focused on"},{"startTime":1441.91,"endTime":1444.6100000000001,"body":"sort of expanding through the"},{"startTime":1444.6100000000001,"endTime":1446.15,"body":"properties that they already have."},{"startTime":1446.675,"endTime":1448.675,"body":"California also has"},{"startTime":1446.675,"endTime":1448.675,"body":"something quite similar."},{"startTime":1448.675,"endTime":1451.9750000000001,"body":"We've just applied to something"},{"startTime":1448.675,"endTime":1451.9750000000001,"body":"with San Francisco around doing"},{"startTime":1451.9750000000001,"endTime":1453.925,"body":"something similar for their city."},{"startTime":1454.2050000000002,"endTime":1456.055,"body":"But yeah, I think we're"},{"startTime":1454.2050000000002,"endTime":1456.055,"body":"in much earlier days."},{"startTime":1456.265,"endTime":1459.7350000000001,"body":"There is a lot of data available"},{"startTime":1456.265,"endTime":1459.7350000000001,"body":"though on US buildings as well."},{"startTime":1459.7350000000001,"endTime":1463.6950000000002,"body":"They have an Energy Star dataset"},{"startTime":1459.7350000000001,"endTime":1463.6950000000002,"body":"that's similar to the EPC dataset,"},{"startTime":1463.6950000000002,"endTime":1468.405,"body":"but updated more regularly and in"},{"startTime":1463.6950000000002,"endTime":1468.405,"body":"a better, slightly better quality."},{"startTime":1468.865,"endTime":1472.4450000000002,"body":"So I do think actually once we get"},{"startTime":1468.865,"endTime":1472.4450000000002,"body":"to that market, It will actually"},{"startTime":1472.4450000000002,"endTime":1476.4650000000001,"body":"be easier to roll out, but we'll"},{"startTime":1472.4450000000002,"endTime":1476.4650000000001,"body":"have to be a lot more specific in"},{"startTime":1476.4650000000001,"endTime":1480.165,"body":"terms of where those geographies are"},{"startTime":1476.4650000000001,"endTime":1480.165,"body":"that are enabling for our solution."},{"startTime":1481.4550000000002,"endTime":1484.825,"body":"I think eventually we'd like to"},{"startTime":1481.4550000000002,"endTime":1484.825,"body":"use the data that we've collected"},{"startTime":1484.835,"endTime":1488.115,"body":"on doing all of these projects and"},{"startTime":1484.835,"endTime":1488.115,"body":"understanding where they were before,"},{"startTime":1488.265,"endTime":1492.231,"body":"what we've done and how the energy"},{"startTime":1488.265,"endTime":1492.231,"body":"performance improves over the course"},{"startTime":1492.281,"endTime":1494.4660000000001,"body":"of whenever that tenant's lease ends."},{"startTime":1494.476,"endTime":1496.056,"body":"So three years, eight years, whatever."},{"startTime":1496.9460000000001,"endTime":1500.7060000000001,"body":"We'll kind of get that longitudinal"},{"startTime":1496.9460000000001,"endTime":1500.7060000000001,"body":"data that will enable us to"},{"startTime":1500.7060000000001,"endTime":1502.486,"body":"eventually finance retrofit."},{"startTime":1502.866,"endTime":1506.941,"body":"So I think we'll eventually move"},{"startTime":1502.866,"endTime":1506.941,"body":"from being this kind of implementer"},{"startTime":1507.5710000000001,"endTime":1513.055,"body":"hoovering up the low hanging fruit"},{"startTime":1507.5710000000001,"endTime":1513.055,"body":"retrofit across these markets to a"},{"startTime":1513.335,"endTime":1518.4750000000001,"body":"financer of retrofit, both for energy"},{"startTime":1513.335,"endTime":1518.4750000000001,"body":"efficiency, but also maybe even more"},{"startTime":1518.4850000000001,"endTime":1520.4850000000001,"body":"interestingly for climate adaptation."},{"startTime":1520.515,"endTime":1522.365,"body":"I mean, that's a much"},{"startTime":1520.515,"endTime":1522.365,"body":"bigger market, right?"},{"startTime":1522.365,"endTime":1526.338,"body":"There's a lot of buildings that need"},{"startTime":1522.365,"endTime":1526.338,"body":"flood protection, fire protection, all"},{"startTime":1526.338,"endTime":1530.8880000000001,"body":"of these things that eventually come down"},{"startTime":1526.338,"endTime":1530.8880000000001,"body":"to large CapEx investments that you need"},{"startTime":1530.8880000000001,"endTime":1534.3780000000002,"body":"to make, or, or smaller, but whatever,"},{"startTime":1530.8880000000001,"endTime":1534.3780000000002,"body":"CapEx investments that you need to make"},{"startTime":1534.6580000000001,"endTime":1538.698,"body":"in retrofitting these buildings to be"},{"startTime":1534.6580000000001,"endTime":1538.698,"body":"capable of withstanding the future."},{"startTime":1539.018,"endTime":1543.328,"body":"And so, we can be the ones who finance"},{"startTime":1539.018,"endTime":1543.328,"body":"that because we have the data set"},{"startTime":1543.578,"endTime":1547.258,"body":"and the relationships with tenants,"},{"startTime":1543.578,"endTime":1547.258,"body":"owners, and installers to do so."},{"startTime":1548.3980000000001,"endTime":1548.8780000000002,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1549.358,"endTime":1555.188,"body":"And I mean, just taking a step"},{"startTime":1549.358,"endTime":1555.188,"body":"back and kind of a macro view, what"},{"startTime":1555.188,"endTime":1558.698,"body":"role do you see startups like yours"},{"startTime":1555.188,"endTime":1558.698,"body":"playing in bridging the gap between"},{"startTime":1559.108,"endTime":1561.018,"body":"legislation and market readiness?"},{"startTime":1561.968,"endTime":1564.488,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think you've"},{"startTime":1561.968,"endTime":1564.488,"body":"hit the nail on the head."},{"startTime":1564.708,"endTime":1566.478,"body":"You know, the legislation exists."},{"startTime":1567.163,"endTime":1570.2930000000001,"body":"But until the unit economics"},{"startTime":1567.163,"endTime":1570.2930000000001,"body":"work and the business case"},{"startTime":1570.2930000000001,"endTime":1572.233,"body":"works, no one is going to move."},{"startTime":1572.2630000000001,"endTime":1577.5430000000001,"body":"And to be honest, there's very little"},{"startTime":1572.2630000000001,"endTime":1577.5430000000001,"body":"incentive for the legislators to actually"},{"startTime":1577.5430000000001,"endTime":1582.883,"body":"enforce laws when the unit economics"},{"startTime":1577.5430000000001,"endTime":1582.883,"body":"and business model doesn't work."},{"startTime":1583.5430000000001,"endTime":1590.323,"body":"Because, if you want a thriving commercial"},{"startTime":1583.5430000000001,"endTime":1590.323,"body":"real estate sector in your city, you're"},{"startTime":1590.323,"endTime":1593.123,"body":"not going to force people to spend"},{"startTime":1590.323,"endTime":1593.123,"body":"a bunch of money they don't have."},{"startTime":1594.223,"endTime":1598.2430000000002,"body":"Or force them to pay fines to do so"},{"startTime":1594.223,"endTime":1598.2430000000002,"body":"or something along these lines, you"},{"startTime":1598.2430000000002,"endTime":1601.843,"body":"know, it's very difficult even once"},{"startTime":1598.2430000000002,"endTime":1601.843,"body":"you've set that law to then enforce"},{"startTime":1601.843,"endTime":1605.833,"body":"it In light of kind of economic and"},{"startTime":1601.843,"endTime":1605.833,"body":"social development goals as well."},{"startTime":1606.603,"endTime":1610.0330000000001,"body":"It's a ripe area for startups to"},{"startTime":1606.603,"endTime":1610.0330000000001,"body":"basically figure out how to correct"},{"startTime":1610.053,"endTime":1611.673,"body":"some of those market inefficiencies."},{"startTime":1612.353,"endTime":1617.603,"body":"So I think it wasn't until we tried and"},{"startTime":1612.353,"endTime":1617.603,"body":"we really kind of Frankensteined together"},{"startTime":1617.603,"endTime":1622.323,"body":"this model around how do we reduce the"},{"startTime":1617.603,"endTime":1622.323,"body":"capex as much as possible by looking at"},{"startTime":1622.323,"endTime":1625.413,"body":"the projects that we're actually doing,"},{"startTime":1622.323,"endTime":1625.413,"body":"the price that we're doing it at, and the"},{"startTime":1625.413,"endTime":1627.5430000000001,"body":"savings that we can get back from tenants."},{"startTime":1628.163,"endTime":1631.813,"body":"And it was only once you had all"},{"startTime":1628.163,"endTime":1631.813,"body":"three of those things that you could"},{"startTime":1631.813,"endTime":1633.413,"body":"make the unit economics kind of work."},{"startTime":1633.423,"endTime":1635.183,"body":"No one of them was enough."},{"startTime":1636.0230000000001,"endTime":1639.403,"body":"And so, it was only over time that you"},{"startTime":1636.0230000000001,"endTime":1639.403,"body":"were able to figure out, okay, like,"},{"startTime":1639.403,"endTime":1642.553,"body":"this is how you can kind of rearrange"},{"startTime":1639.403,"endTime":1642.553,"body":"these players to make it work and"},{"startTime":1642.553,"endTime":1644.963,"body":"sort of make that legislation doable."},{"startTime":1645.373,"endTime":1648.383,"body":"And then, of course, like now"},{"startTime":1645.373,"endTime":1648.383,"body":"we work with a lot of councils."},{"startTime":1648.383,"endTime":1652.633,"body":"We work with a lot of government bodies"},{"startTime":1648.383,"endTime":1652.633,"body":"who are interested in making our model"},{"startTime":1652.663,"endTime":1658.0130000000001,"body":"more widespread because it's a way of"},{"startTime":1652.663,"endTime":1658.0130000000001,"body":"aligning everyone's interests and making"},{"startTime":1658.0130000000001,"endTime":1663.093,"body":"it so that your economic goals are not"},{"startTime":1658.0130000000001,"endTime":1663.093,"body":"sort of in conflict with your carbon"},{"startTime":1663.103,"endTime":1665.2730000000001,"body":"and climate change mitigation goals."},{"startTime":1665.858,"endTime":1669.028,"body":"So I think there's a huge role for"},{"startTime":1665.858,"endTime":1669.028,"body":"startups to play in identifying"},{"startTime":1669.028,"endTime":1670.278,"body":"so many of those opportunities."},{"startTime":1670.278,"endTime":1674.018,"body":"Like, for example, again, in my VC job,"},{"startTime":1670.278,"endTime":1674.018,"body":"there are so many people that are looking"},{"startTime":1674.018,"endTime":1679.3680000000002,"body":"at things like regenerative agriculture,"},{"startTime":1674.018,"endTime":1679.3680000000002,"body":"another area where, you know, it seems"},{"startTime":1679.3680000000002,"endTime":1682.548,"body":"like a no brainer, you know that it"},{"startTime":1679.3680000000002,"endTime":1682.548,"body":"will increase yields over time, but"},{"startTime":1682.578,"endTime":1687.208,"body":"there's this like time in between where"},{"startTime":1682.578,"endTime":1687.208,"body":"you know, your returns are going to be"},{"startTime":1687.208,"endTime":1691.568,"body":"lower, and it is a CapEx investment in"},{"startTime":1687.208,"endTime":1691.568,"body":"the first place in terms of foregone"},{"startTime":1691.588,"endTime":1696.308,"body":"income in that early, early time period,"},{"startTime":1691.588,"endTime":1696.308,"body":"and then there's all of these other sort"},{"startTime":1696.308,"endTime":1700.848,"body":"of like almost fake feeling barriers to"},{"startTime":1696.308,"endTime":1700.848,"body":"the barriers to market, right, things"},{"startTime":1700.848,"endTime":1704.3980000000001,"body":"like you've already invested in certain"},{"startTime":1700.848,"endTime":1704.3980000000001,"body":"equipment that now you won't be able to"},{"startTime":1704.3980000000001,"endTime":1709.068,"body":"use, or you're locked into contracts, or"},{"startTime":1704.3980000000001,"endTime":1709.068,"body":"you have a bunch of fertiliser sitting in"},{"startTime":1709.068,"endTime":1711.248,"body":"your warehouse that you now need to use."},{"startTime":1711.248,"endTime":1715.6580000000001,"body":"You know, there's so much of that stuff"},{"startTime":1711.248,"endTime":1715.6580000000001,"body":"that feel fake, but actually are real"},{"startTime":1715.6580000000001,"endTime":1717.538,"body":"reasons why these things don't happen."},{"startTime":1718.278,"endTime":1721.938,"body":"And so I think, you know, there's"},{"startTime":1718.278,"endTime":1721.938,"body":"so many startups that I see coming"},{"startTime":1721.938,"endTime":1725.448,"body":"through the door as well, who have"},{"startTime":1721.938,"endTime":1725.448,"body":"really identified where there's"},{"startTime":1725.458,"endTime":1729.028,"body":"sort of this no brainer solution"},{"startTime":1725.458,"endTime":1729.028,"body":"that in theory works economically."},{"startTime":1729.028,"endTime":1733.5430000000001,"body":"In theory, it works in terms of the"},{"startTime":1729.028,"endTime":1733.5430000000001,"body":"climate as well in terms of human"},{"startTime":1733.5430000000001,"endTime":1736.5230000000001,"body":"health, you know, not using all these"},{"startTime":1733.5430000000001,"endTime":1736.5230000000001,"body":"pesticides and all these things."},{"startTime":1736.5230000000001,"endTime":1737.363,"body":"It's a very good thing."},{"startTime":1737.77,"endTime":1740.55,"body":"It you know, checks all these"},{"startTime":1737.77,"endTime":1740.55,"body":"boxes yet it's not happening."},{"startTime":1740.75,"endTime":1744.636,"body":"So I would I think like what I often"},{"startTime":1740.75,"endTime":1744.636,"body":"tell the startups that I work with"},{"startTime":1744.636,"endTime":1749.246,"body":"or the founders I work with is like"},{"startTime":1744.636,"endTime":1749.246,"body":"look for these sort of weird behaviors"},{"startTime":1749.276,"endTime":1753.39,"body":"where something that's a no brainer"},{"startTime":1749.276,"endTime":1753.39,"body":"isn't being used or something that"},{"startTime":1753.5700000000002,"endTime":1757.49,"body":"seems bad for everyone is happening"},{"startTime":1753.5700000000002,"endTime":1757.49,"body":"all the time and figure out how you"},{"startTime":1757.49,"endTime":1762.04,"body":"can change those market incentives"},{"startTime":1757.49,"endTime":1762.04,"body":"to get a different behavior done."},{"startTime":1762.365,"endTime":1764.535,"body":"Or get to see a different"},{"startTime":1762.365,"endTime":1764.535,"body":"behavior at the end of the day."},{"startTime":1766.38,"endTime":1769.5900000000001,"body":"And you've worked with some high"},{"startTime":1766.38,"endTime":1769.5900000000001,"body":"profile clients like Siemens"},{"startTime":1769.6000000000001,"endTime":1771.26,"body":"and Durham County Council."},{"startTime":1771.68,"endTime":1774.8300000000002,"body":"What have been the key learnings"},{"startTime":1771.68,"endTime":1774.8300000000002,"body":"from these projects, do you think?"},{"startTime":1776.365,"endTime":1779.575,"body":"I mean, I think a huge learning"},{"startTime":1776.365,"endTime":1779.575,"body":"is that everything takes longer"},{"startTime":1779.575,"endTime":1780.7350000000001,"body":"than you think it will, right?"},{"startTime":1781.005,"endTime":1782.095,"body":"I mean, that's the first, right?"},{"startTime":1782.145,"endTime":1785.905,"body":"I mean, I think one of the one of"},{"startTime":1782.145,"endTime":1785.905,"body":"the big ones, not facetiously is"},{"startTime":1785.905,"endTime":1789.425,"body":"that there are tons of stakeholders"},{"startTime":1785.905,"endTime":1789.425,"body":"involved in these sort of things."},{"startTime":1789.435,"endTime":1793.741,"body":"So, for example, you have the"},{"startTime":1789.435,"endTime":1793.741,"body":"asset managers who are actually"},{"startTime":1793.741,"endTime":1794.961,"body":"managing these buildings."},{"startTime":1794.961,"endTime":1797.631,"body":"You have the actual tenants, you"},{"startTime":1794.961,"endTime":1797.631,"body":"have the tenants agents that are"},{"startTime":1797.631,"endTime":1800.241,"body":"the ones that are making sure"},{"startTime":1797.631,"endTime":1800.241,"body":"that these buildings are occupied."},{"startTime":1800.5810000000001,"endTime":1805.458,"body":"You have to align so many different"},{"startTime":1800.5810000000001,"endTime":1805.458,"body":"people's interests in order to"},{"startTime":1805.548,"endTime":1808.098,"body":"make this whole puzzle work."},{"startTime":1808.4930000000002,"endTime":1811.443,"body":"And so I think so much of that"},{"startTime":1808.4930000000002,"endTime":1811.443,"body":"stakeholder engagement that's been"},{"startTime":1811.443,"endTime":1814.663,"body":"happening through Durham Council"},{"startTime":1811.443,"endTime":1814.663,"body":"or through Siemens Real Estate."},{"startTime":1814.663,"endTime":1817.7430000000002,"body":"I mean, you're working with these"},{"startTime":1814.663,"endTime":1817.7430000000002,"body":"massive organisations, like I think"},{"startTime":1817.7430000000002,"endTime":1822.443,"body":"taking everyone's opinion into"},{"startTime":1817.7430000000002,"endTime":1822.443,"body":"consideration for what seems like, you"},{"startTime":1822.443,"endTime":1825.2530000000002,"body":"know, especially for me when I first"},{"startTime":1822.443,"endTime":1825.2530000000002,"body":"started, it was like, well, easy."},{"startTime":1825.4930000000002,"endTime":1826.193,"body":"We have a product."},{"startTime":1826.193,"endTime":1828.923,"body":"We did the, we just, just let"},{"startTime":1826.193,"endTime":1828.923,"body":"us do the work now it's done."},{"startTime":1829.463,"endTime":1833.883,"body":"but I think there's just so many more,"},{"startTime":1829.463,"endTime":1833.883,"body":"people and interests that need to be"},{"startTime":1833.883,"endTime":1838.333,"body":"aligned, perhaps, then you think I think"},{"startTime":1833.883,"endTime":1838.333,"body":"that's one of my first probably takeaways."},{"startTime":1839.113,"endTime":1843.103,"body":"I think the other in terms of working"},{"startTime":1839.113,"endTime":1843.103,"body":"with Durham and in working with a lot"},{"startTime":1843.103,"endTime":1847.143,"body":"of these other councils is that there"},{"startTime":1843.103,"endTime":1847.143,"body":"are both a lot of real constraints in"},{"startTime":1847.143,"endTime":1850.473,"body":"terms of, there's just very limited"},{"startTime":1847.143,"endTime":1850.473,"body":"budget, for example, in a lot of these"},{"startTime":1850.473,"endTime":1852.413,"body":"councils for doing this kind of work."},{"startTime":1853.483,"endTime":1856.303,"body":"And so even if you're telling them"},{"startTime":1853.483,"endTime":1856.303,"body":"it's 80% less than it would have"},{"startTime":1856.303,"endTime":1857.9930000000002,"body":"been, they can't pay that 20%."},{"startTime":1858.9930000000002,"endTime":1859.483,"body":"And so."},{"startTime":1859.863,"endTime":1863.393,"body":"More and more, you're realising, okay,"},{"startTime":1859.863,"endTime":1863.393,"body":"this like financing aspect of what we do"},{"startTime":1863.393,"endTime":1866.7530000000002,"body":"and being able to forward finance things"},{"startTime":1863.393,"endTime":1866.7530000000002,"body":"is actually really, really important."},{"startTime":1867.313,"endTime":1871.323,"body":"So I think that has maybe moved up on"},{"startTime":1867.313,"endTime":1871.323,"body":"the agenda in terms of working with"},{"startTime":1871.3500000000001,"endTime":1874.56,"body":"at least like the public sector sort"},{"startTime":1871.3500000000001,"endTime":1874.56,"body":"of bodies that we're working with."},{"startTime":1875.21,"endTime":1878.9950000000001,"body":"I think the other thing that we learned"},{"startTime":1875.21,"endTime":1878.9950000000001,"body":"is that there are a lot of like Again,"},{"startTime":1879.005,"endTime":1880.9450000000002,"body":"these sort of fake barriers as well."},{"startTime":1881.255,"endTime":1885.555,"body":"So, for example, it's not just the"},{"startTime":1881.255,"endTime":1885.555,"body":"CapEx, it's that, people are scared"},{"startTime":1886.438,"endTime":1888.6680000000001,"body":"of basically spooking their tenants."},{"startTime":1889.558,"endTime":1893.708,"body":"So they, you know, they, they won't"},{"startTime":1889.558,"endTime":1893.708,"body":"even kind of like mention that there's"},{"startTime":1893.708,"endTime":1897.748,"body":"works that need to be done in their"},{"startTime":1893.708,"endTime":1897.748,"body":"building because suddenly the tenant"},{"startTime":1897.748,"endTime":1899.228,"body":"will say, Oh yeah, you're right."},{"startTime":1899.228,"endTime":1900.528,"body":"You know, these works do need to be done."},{"startTime":1900.528,"endTime":1901.3680000000002,"body":"You should do that."},{"startTime":1901.568,"endTime":1904.308,"body":"And they don't want to be in"},{"startTime":1901.568,"endTime":1904.308,"body":"under sort of more scrutiny"},{"startTime":1904.308,"endTime":1905.608,"body":"by their tenants potentially."},{"startTime":1906.028,"endTime":1909.948,"body":"The other side is like, you know, for"},{"startTime":1906.028,"endTime":1909.948,"body":"example, we worked with a smaller landlord"},{"startTime":1909.948,"endTime":1913.528,"body":"that only had eight buildings in East"},{"startTime":1909.948,"endTime":1913.528,"body":"London  but one of the challenges that we"},{"startTime":1913.528,"endTime":1919.9930000000002,"body":"faced with them was that No news was good"},{"startTime":1913.528,"endTime":1919.9930000000002,"body":"news between the tenant and the landlord."},{"startTime":1920.163,"endTime":1923.683,"body":"So opening any sort of line of"},{"startTime":1920.163,"endTime":1923.683,"body":"communication, there was just such"},{"startTime":1923.683,"endTime":1925.713,"body":"an uphill battle with getting that."},{"startTime":1925.713,"endTime":1928.603,"body":"And we learned that kind of, it's actually"},{"startTime":1925.713,"endTime":1928.603,"body":"more effective for us to approach the"},{"startTime":1928.603,"endTime":1933.108,"body":"tenants directly than it is sometimes"},{"startTime":1928.603,"endTime":1933.108,"body":"to, have the landlord introduce us."},{"startTime":1934.108,"endTime":1937.281,"body":"So there's so many of these kind of"},{"startTime":1934.108,"endTime":1937.281,"body":"learnings there's even things like, for"},{"startTime":1937.281,"endTime":1943.3310000000001,"body":"example, people want the projects that we"},{"startTime":1937.281,"endTime":1943.3310000000001,"body":"do insured, which is sort of a duh moment,"},{"startTime":1943.3310000000001,"endTime":1946.5810000000001,"body":"but it wasn't until one of our clients"},{"startTime":1943.3310000000001,"endTime":1946.5810000000001,"body":"asked us, you know, okay, now you're"},{"startTime":1946.5810000000001,"endTime":1952.411,"body":"doing these 50 projects, is the quality"},{"startTime":1946.5810000000001,"endTime":1952.411,"body":"of them insurable that we realised, okay,"},{"startTime":1952.411,"endTime":1956.631,"body":"okay, we need to be able to insure these"},{"startTime":1952.411,"endTime":1956.631,"body":"projects and that adds 20% to our costs."},{"startTime":1957.076,"endTime":1960.7060000000001,"body":"And then another side is that they're"},{"startTime":1957.076,"endTime":1960.7060000000001,"body":"like, okay, when the tenants are actually"},{"startTime":1960.7060000000001,"endTime":1963.256,"body":"paying us back, is that taxable revenue?"},{"startTime":1963.256,"endTime":1966.576,"body":"Or is it counted as a reimbursement"},{"startTime":1963.256,"endTime":1966.576,"body":"for what we've already spent?"},{"startTime":1967.006,"endTime":1970.366,"body":"And we've had to look into that and"},{"startTime":1967.006,"endTime":1970.366,"body":"speak to lawyers and accountants."},{"startTime":1970.366,"endTime":1972.526,"body":"And then it's like, yes, it"},{"startTime":1970.366,"endTime":1972.526,"body":"is actually taxable revenue."},{"startTime":1972.526,"endTime":1975.036,"body":"And so that's another bit that we"},{"startTime":1972.526,"endTime":1975.036,"body":"have to like, sort of take into"},{"startTime":1975.036,"endTime":1976.496,"body":"account with our model as well."},{"startTime":1977.016,"endTime":1980.246,"body":"So I think it's only in the process of"},{"startTime":1977.016,"endTime":1980.246,"body":"doing it and working with these much"},{"startTime":1980.246,"endTime":1983.736,"body":"larger players that need to comply"},{"startTime":1980.246,"endTime":1983.736,"body":"with all these regulations and have"},{"startTime":1983.746,"endTime":1985.336,"body":"these massive sort of compliance."},{"startTime":1986.031,"endTime":1989.611,"body":"departments, again, like with the"},{"startTime":1986.031,"endTime":1989.611,"body":"councils, they can never tender."},{"startTime":1989.751,"endTime":1992.0610000000001,"body":"So if they're, if they're running"},{"startTime":1989.751,"endTime":1992.0610000000001,"body":"a procurement process, even if"},{"startTime":1992.0610000000001,"endTime":1995.8410000000001,"body":"they want to work with us, we need"},{"startTime":1992.0610000000001,"endTime":1995.8410000000001,"body":"to find at least two other people"},{"startTime":1996.031,"endTime":1997.701,"body":"who can deliver the same service."},{"startTime":1998.161,"endTime":2000.961,"body":"Ironically, we have to find our own"},{"startTime":1998.161,"endTime":2000.961,"body":"competitors, but we haven't, we, we"},{"startTime":2000.961,"endTime":2003.8410000000001,"body":"struggle to sometimes find people that"},{"startTime":2000.961,"endTime":2003.8410000000001,"body":"are doing the same thing that we are"},{"startTime":2004.111,"endTime":2005.671,"body":"to get them to even bid for things."},{"startTime":2005.671,"endTime":2009.211,"body":"And so I think there's just"},{"startTime":2005.671,"endTime":2009.211,"body":"like so many of these kinds of"},{"startTime":2009.221,"endTime":2011.0610000000001,"body":"barriers that you don't realise."},{"startTime":2011.361,"endTime":2015.851,"body":"When you're thinking of your elegant"},{"startTime":2011.361,"endTime":2015.851,"body":"startup idea in your head and, and in"},{"startTime":2015.851,"endTime":2018.641,"body":"particular, when you're working with"},{"startTime":2015.851,"endTime":2018.641,"body":"a lot of these much larger players"},{"startTime":2019.511,"endTime":2022.001,"body":"that are, you know, we're working"},{"startTime":2019.511,"endTime":2022.001,"body":"with Around Town, for example, and"},{"startTime":2022.001,"endTime":2023.691,"body":"they're a publicly traded company."},{"startTime":2023.971,"endTime":2027.8310000000001,"body":"I mean, it's just so much more"},{"startTime":2023.971,"endTime":2027.8310000000001,"body":"risk averse than, than you expect."},{"startTime":2028.6380000000001,"endTime":2032.598,"body":"And looking ahead, looking at the"},{"startTime":2028.6380000000001,"endTime":2032.598,"body":"future of the built environment"},{"startTime":2032.6480000000001,"endTime":2034.438,"body":"and the future of UpGreen."},{"startTime":2034.458,"endTime":2036.718,"body":"What, what trends are"},{"startTime":2034.458,"endTime":2036.718,"body":"you most excited about?"},{"startTime":2037.381,"endTime":2039.131,"body":"I think future of built environments."},{"startTime":2039.131,"endTime":2044.511,"body":"There is just so much both existing"},{"startTime":2039.131,"endTime":2044.511,"body":"and new technology to be deployed."},{"startTime":2044.511,"endTime":2046.491,"body":"I think people are genuinely so excited."},{"startTime":2046.521,"endTime":2050.561,"body":"I mean, there are so, for example, I"},{"startTime":2046.521,"endTime":2050.561,"body":"mean, again, in my VC, we will get so"},{"startTime":2050.561,"endTime":2053.74,"body":"many material startups that are coming"},{"startTime":2050.561,"endTime":2053.74,"body":"up with new sort of carbon negative"},{"startTime":2053.77,"endTime":2059.19,"body":"materials for the built environment"},{"startTime":2053.77,"endTime":2059.19,"body":"or much more effective ways of or"},{"startTime":2059.22,"endTime":2064.22,"body":"cost effective ways of doing of"},{"startTime":2059.22,"endTime":2064.22,"body":"heating a building that sort of thing."},{"startTime":2064.54,"endTime":2069.7799999999997,"body":"So there's so many kind of jets in"},{"startTime":2064.54,"endTime":2069.7799999999997,"body":"terms of technology where like a real"},{"startTime":2069.81,"endTime":2073.9,"body":"true new innovation is necessary where"},{"startTime":2069.81,"endTime":2073.9,"body":"there are so many of those and people"},{"startTime":2073.9,"endTime":2077.96,"body":"are actually much more willing to"},{"startTime":2073.9,"endTime":2077.96,"body":"trial those things and bring them in"},{"startTime":2078.23,"endTime":2082.56,"body":"and bring down the carbon as as a way"},{"startTime":2078.23,"endTime":2082.56,"body":"of tackling that 40% number, you know,"},{"startTime":2082.56,"endTime":2084.51,"body":"like you're biting down some of that."},{"startTime":2085.11,"endTime":2087.7200000000003,"body":"Then there's this whole category"},{"startTime":2085.11,"endTime":2087.7200000000003,"body":"of like all this technology that"},{"startTime":2087.77,"endTime":2091.2200000000003,"body":"already exists that just needs to be"},{"startTime":2087.77,"endTime":2091.2200000000003,"body":"deployed, like the easy stuff like"},{"startTime":2091.2200000000003,"endTime":2092.84,"body":"insulation things that we're doing."},{"startTime":2093.15,"endTime":2095.87,"body":"And then it's more about like, okay,"},{"startTime":2093.15,"endTime":2095.87,"body":"what are the market inefficiencies that"},{"startTime":2095.87,"endTime":2098.59,"body":"need to be corrected to roll those out?"},{"startTime":2099.14,"endTime":2102.03,"body":"And then I think as the"},{"startTime":2099.14,"endTime":2102.03,"body":"legislation actually ramps up."},{"startTime":2102.03,"endTime":2104.4500000000003,"body":"So right now we're looking at C by 2030."},{"startTime":2104.915,"endTime":2107.801,"body":"But they're looking at things"},{"startTime":2104.915,"endTime":2107.801,"body":"like B and A by 2040 2050."},{"startTime":2108.061,"endTime":2111.241,"body":"So there are more ambitious"},{"startTime":2108.061,"endTime":2111.241,"body":"targets coming up as well."},{"startTime":2111.611,"endTime":2114.6910000000003,"body":"And I think hopefully that will"},{"startTime":2111.611,"endTime":2114.6910000000003,"body":"spur more ambitious action."},{"startTime":2114.6910000000003,"endTime":2116.791,"body":"But like I said, the"},{"startTime":2114.6910000000003,"endTime":2116.791,"body":"legislation is not enough."},{"startTime":2116.791,"endTime":2117.801,"body":"It just changes the goalpost."},{"startTime":2119.131,"endTime":2122.081,"body":"Eventually, you still need to change"},{"startTime":2119.131,"endTime":2122.081,"body":"the unit, economics, the economics"},{"startTime":2122.081,"endTime":2126.701,"body":"and business model of, you know,"},{"startTime":2122.081,"endTime":2126.701,"body":"that intervention to make it work"},{"startTime":2126.761,"endTime":2128.251,"body":"with people's business plans."},{"startTime":2128.661,"endTime":2131.351,"body":"And so that will bring some new"},{"startTime":2128.661,"endTime":2131.351,"body":"challenges as well as some new"},{"startTime":2131.351,"endTime":2133.201,"body":"opportunities, which I think is exciting."},{"startTime":2133.811,"endTime":2137.233,"body":"And then finally, like I said, I"},{"startTime":2133.811,"endTime":2137.233,"body":"think  the next big thing in built"},{"startTime":2137.233,"endTime":2140.613,"body":"environment is not just carbon"},{"startTime":2137.233,"endTime":2140.613,"body":"mitigation or energy efficiency."},{"startTime":2140.863,"endTime":2143.813,"body":"It's actually going to"},{"startTime":2140.863,"endTime":2143.813,"body":"be adaptation as well."},{"startTime":2144.113,"endTime":2148.3830000000003,"body":"So there's a ton of retrofit that needs"},{"startTime":2144.113,"endTime":2148.3830000000003,"body":"to happen for, for example, like cooling"},{"startTime":2148.3830000000003,"endTime":2153.563,"body":"buildings much more effectively in a"},{"startTime":2148.3830000000003,"endTime":2153.563,"body":"zero carbon way as the climate heats up."},{"startTime":2153.563,"endTime":2156.763,"body":"And I think there are huge"},{"startTime":2153.563,"endTime":2156.763,"body":"opportunities in that area as well."},{"startTime":2158.263,"endTime":2159.223,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"startTime":2160.013,"endTime":2161.043,"body":"Left field question."},{"startTime":2162.1530000000002,"endTime":2162.603,"body":"Nice."},{"startTime":2162.613,"endTime":2168.663,"body":"could have any person character"},{"startTime":2162.613,"endTime":2168.663,"body":"alive or dead, real or fictional"},{"startTime":2169.123,"endTime":2173.4030000000002,"body":"as a spokesperson for zero carbon"},{"startTime":2169.123,"endTime":2173.4030000000002,"body":"buildings, what would it be?"},{"startTime":2173.833,"endTime":2174.753,"body":"Who would it be and why?"},{"startTime":2176.2780000000002,"endTime":2177.188,"body":"That's a good question."},{"startTime":2177.198,"endTime":2178.378,"body":"I need to think on that one."},{"startTime":2179.598,"endTime":2180.518,"body":"Maybe the Lorax."},{"startTime":2182.2580000000003,"endTime":2186.448,"body":"From, from Dr. Seuss, you know, he's"},{"startTime":2182.2580000000003,"endTime":2186.448,"body":"the Lorax, he speaks for the trees."},{"startTime":2187.038,"endTime":2191.448,"body":"I think something along those lines, an"},{"startTime":2187.038,"endTime":2191.448,"body":"an interesting little character like that"},{"startTime":2191.448,"endTime":2195.468,"body":"could be a fun one for, for the built"},{"startTime":2191.448,"endTime":2195.468,"body":"environment, but maybe more seriously,"},{"startTime":2196.078,"endTime":2201.238,"body":"I think I'm trying to think who's the"},{"startTime":2196.078,"endTime":2201.238,"body":"sort of like dirtiest business person,"},{"startTime":2201.7780000000002,"endTime":2208.108,"body":"the most sort of like Ayn Rand esque"},{"startTime":2201.7780000000002,"endTime":2208.108,"body":"like business person that would, that,"},{"startTime":2208.108,"endTime":2212.368,"body":"that, that could make it, that, that"},{"startTime":2208.108,"endTime":2212.368,"body":"really will show that this is you know,"},{"startTime":2212.368,"endTime":2216.238,"body":"an economic proposition at the end of the"},{"startTime":2212.368,"endTime":2216.238,"body":"day, not sort of a do gooder proposition."},{"startTime":2216.668,"endTime":2219.978,"body":"I think that's sort of the, I mean,"},{"startTime":2216.668,"endTime":2219.978,"body":"that's a, that's a challenge that we are"},{"startTime":2219.978,"endTime":2224.088,"body":"getting as well all the time is that we're"},{"startTime":2219.978,"endTime":2224.088,"body":"sort of, for example, referred to an ESG"},{"startTime":2224.088,"endTime":2227.718,"body":"team or a sustainability team, and it"},{"startTime":2224.088,"endTime":2227.718,"body":"isn't until we kind of get to the asset"},{"startTime":2227.718,"endTime":2231.618,"body":"manager or the fund manager who really"},{"startTime":2227.718,"endTime":2231.618,"body":"sees that, oh, this is like a chance for"},{"startTime":2231.628,"endTime":2233.868,"body":"me to save money or make money great."},{"startTime":2233.988,"endTime":2237.7980000000002,"body":"Then things move so much so much faster"},{"startTime":2233.988,"endTime":2237.7980000000002,"body":"than when we're sort of stuck in that"},{"startTime":2237.818,"endTime":2239.108,"body":"other stuff part of the business."},{"startTime":2239.728,"endTime":2243.588,"body":"So I think my you know, like"},{"startTime":2239.728,"endTime":2243.588,"body":"my rose colored glasses on is"},{"startTime":2243.588,"endTime":2246.322,"body":"like I love I would love to have"},{"startTime":2243.588,"endTime":2246.322,"body":"the Lorax be our spokesperson."},{"startTime":2247.552,"endTime":2249.3920000000003,"body":"I think my True."},{"startTime":2249.942,"endTime":2256.982,"body":"My clear eyed glasses on maybe, I don't"},{"startTime":2249.942,"endTime":2256.982,"body":"know, like Peter Thiel or someone who I"},{"startTime":2256.982,"endTime":2261.552,"body":"kind of detest in real life, but maybe"},{"startTime":2256.982,"endTime":2261.552,"body":"would get the right people moving."},{"startTime":2262.817,"endTime":2263.327,"body":"Fair enough."},{"startTime":2263.5170000000003,"endTime":2264.0370000000003,"body":"Fair enough."},{"startTime":2264.5370000000003,"endTime":2266.947,"body":"We're coming towards the"},{"startTime":2264.5370000000003,"endTime":2266.947,"body":"end of the podcast now Puja."},{"startTime":2266.947,"endTime":2271.417,"body":"Is there any question I didn't ask that"},{"startTime":2266.947,"endTime":2271.417,"body":"you wish I did or any aspect of this we"},{"startTime":2271.417,"endTime":2274.297,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"startTime":2271.417,"endTime":2274.297,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"startTime":2276.722,"endTime":2277.422,"body":"I don't think so."},{"startTime":2277.422,"endTime":2280.272,"body":"I think we've discussed most"},{"startTime":2277.422,"endTime":2280.272,"body":"of what I wanted to hit on."},{"startTime":2280.622,"endTime":2285.6620000000003,"body":"I think the last thing that I would"},{"startTime":2280.622,"endTime":2285.6620000000003,"body":"say is maybe, around just the role"},{"startTime":2285.6620000000003,"endTime":2288.012,"body":"of the tenants of these buildings."},{"startTime":2288.022,"endTime":2291.652,"body":"So, you know, we're looking at commercial"},{"startTime":2288.022,"endTime":2291.652,"body":"buildings really who we're talking about"},{"startTime":2291.6620000000003,"endTime":2297.1620000000003,"body":"are small and medium enterprises that"},{"startTime":2291.6620000000003,"endTime":2297.1620000000003,"body":"are the ones who are both suffering"},{"startTime":2297.172,"endTime":2302.982,"body":"because they've seen energy bills"},{"startTime":2297.172,"endTime":2302.982,"body":"skyrocket and their margins go down"},{"startTime":2303.002,"endTime":2308.102,"body":"pretty significantly, and they represent,"},{"startTime":2303.002,"endTime":2308.102,"body":"you know, 90% of businesses globally."},{"startTime":2308.482,"endTime":2310.742,"body":"They contribute 50% of global employment."},{"startTime":2311.277,"endTime":2316.097,"body":"They have limited budgets and even"},{"startTime":2311.277,"endTime":2316.097,"body":"assuming they kind of wanted to do,"},{"startTime":2316.997,"endTime":2320.993,"body":"quote unquote, the right thing around"},{"startTime":2316.997,"endTime":2320.993,"body":"mitigating their carbon and making"},{"startTime":2320.993,"endTime":2324.783,"body":"themselves more efficient, they"},{"startTime":2320.993,"endTime":2324.783,"body":"would be facing the challenge of,"},{"startTime":2324.803,"endTime":2326.813,"body":"okay, they have a high upfront cost."},{"startTime":2327.223,"endTime":2330.043,"body":"And then they have to get permission from"},{"startTime":2327.223,"endTime":2330.043,"body":"their landlord and deal with all this"},{"startTime":2330.053,"endTime":2331.843,"body":"complication in order to even do that."},{"startTime":2332.393,"endTime":2332.553,"body":"And"},{"startTime":2332.553,"endTime":2338.388,"body":"so I think in all of this, it can be"},{"startTime":2332.553,"endTime":2338.388,"body":"really easy to sort of either tinker"},{"startTime":2338.388,"endTime":2341.518,"body":"around the edges where it's, you know,"},{"startTime":2338.388,"endTime":2341.518,"body":"there's kind of three things that,"},{"startTime":2341.608,"endTime":2343.358,"body":"that impact their energy bills, right?"},{"startTime":2343.358,"endTime":2346.658,"body":"There's their actual consumption,"},{"startTime":2343.358,"endTime":2346.658,"body":"like how are they, You know, what"},{"startTime":2346.658,"endTime":2347.968,"body":"are the appliances that they use?"},{"startTime":2347.978,"endTime":2351.368,"body":"That sort of thing for their building,"},{"startTime":2347.978,"endTime":2351.368,"body":"then there's their actual fabric"},{"startTime":2351.368,"endTime":2354.018,"body":"of their building, which matters,"},{"startTime":2351.368,"endTime":2354.018,"body":"And they have no control over."},{"startTime":2354.088,"endTime":2356.248,"body":"And then the energy prices, which matters."},{"startTime":2356.248,"endTime":2357.328,"body":"And they have no control over."},{"startTime":2357.7980000000002,"endTime":2362.5080000000003,"body":"And so I think through our partnerships"},{"startTime":2357.7980000000002,"endTime":2362.5080000000003,"body":"and, and, you know, our approach,"},{"startTime":2362.518,"endTime":2365.118,"body":"for example, we also work with"},{"startTime":2362.518,"endTime":2365.118,"body":"a company called Tariff Tribe."},{"startTime":2365.908,"endTime":2368.498,"body":"they'll help companies"},{"startTime":2365.908,"endTime":2368.498,"body":"get a better tariff."},{"startTime":2368.718,"endTime":2374.7580000000003,"body":"So we're able to actually work on those"},{"startTime":2368.718,"endTime":2374.7580000000003,"body":"two biggest explaining factors, the bit of"},{"startTime":2374.7980000000002,"endTime":2379.728,"body":"their building and the price, the things"},{"startTime":2374.7980000000002,"endTime":2379.728,"body":"that they currently have no control over."},{"startTime":2380.0280000000002,"endTime":2383.5280000000002,"body":"And so I think both by sort of"},{"startTime":2380.0280000000002,"endTime":2383.5280000000002,"body":"aligning those interests, because"},{"startTime":2383.5280000000002,"endTime":2388.038,"body":"they do get a savings at the end"},{"startTime":2383.5280000000002,"endTime":2388.038,"body":"of the day at no upfront cost And"},{"startTime":2388.0480000000002,"endTime":2392.078,"body":"doing so in a way that like really is"},{"startTime":2388.0480000000002,"endTime":2392.078,"body":"tackling a big pain point for them."},{"startTime":2392.348,"endTime":2396.418,"body":"I think the one thing that I do"},{"startTime":2392.348,"endTime":2396.418,"body":"really care about is that we, we,"},{"startTime":2396.418,"endTime":2399.458,"body":"are really SME and tenant friendly."},{"startTime":2399.698,"endTime":2401.618,"body":"It is not kind of a purely."},{"startTime":2402.563,"endTime":2407.043,"body":"You know, we're, we're trying to put"},{"startTime":2402.563,"endTime":2407.043,"body":"all the costs on them, which is often"},{"startTime":2407.053,"endTime":2412.273,"body":"sort of the default when, you know,"},{"startTime":2407.053,"endTime":2412.273,"body":"you're looking at owners who who are"},{"startTime":2412.283,"endTime":2415.463,"body":"not wanting to invest in something"},{"startTime":2412.283,"endTime":2415.463,"body":"and wanting to pass those costs on."},{"startTime":2417.068,"endTime":2418.5480000000002,"body":"Yeah, makes sense, Cool."},{"startTime":2419.148,"endTime":2419.478,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":2419.478,"endTime":2423.378,"body":"Puja, if people would like to know more"},{"startTime":2419.478,"endTime":2423.378,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"startTime":2423.378,"endTime":2426.058,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"startTime":2423.378,"endTime":2426.058,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"startTime":2428.243,"endTime":2429.543,"body":"You can go to getupgreen."},{"startTime":2430.3830000000003,"endTime":2435.695,"body":"com to find out more about us, especially"},{"startTime":2430.3830000000003,"endTime":2435.695,"body":"if you're an SME or you Or you're a"},{"startTime":2435.695,"endTime":2441.375,"body":"homeowner or so either if you are looking"},{"startTime":2435.695,"endTime":2441.375,"body":"at your own home or your apartment,"},{"startTime":2441.515,"endTime":2445.405,"body":"it doesn't matter if you're renting or"},{"startTime":2441.515,"endTime":2445.405,"body":"owning actually, or if you're a small"},{"startTime":2445.405,"endTime":2449.8450000000003,"body":"business, again, whether you're renting"},{"startTime":2445.405,"endTime":2449.8450000000003,"body":"or owning your unit, you can fill"},{"startTime":2449.875,"endTime":2452.835,"body":"in just a quick like four questions."},{"startTime":2452.85,"endTime":2457.71,"body":"It takes under two minutes to put in, and"},{"startTime":2452.85,"endTime":2457.71,"body":"you can get a quote on how much we can"},{"startTime":2457.71,"endTime":2461.85,"body":"finance up front, how much your savings"},{"startTime":2457.71,"endTime":2461.85,"body":"would be, what your monthly fee would"},{"startTime":2461.86,"endTime":2467.59,"body":"be, and how much carbon and energy you"},{"startTime":2461.86,"endTime":2467.59,"body":"would save by doing those interventions."},{"startTime":2468.13,"endTime":2471.973,"body":"So I'd encourage you to go try"},{"startTime":2468.13,"endTime":2471.973,"body":"that for yourself and check us out"},{"startTime":2471.993,"endTime":2473.053,"body":"and we'd love to work with you."},{"startTime":2474.053,"endTime":2475.353,"body":"Superb, great."},{"startTime":2475.613,"endTime":2476.683,"body":"Puja that's been fascinating."},{"startTime":2476.683,"endTime":2478.248,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"startTime":2476.683,"endTime":2478.248,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"startTime":2479.123,"endTime":2479.703,"body":"Thanks, Tom."},{"startTime":2479.703,"endTime":2480.503,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"startTime":2481.317,"endTime":2483.187,"body":"Okay, we've come to the end of the show."},{"startTime":2483.907,"endTime":2485.0170000000003,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"startTime":2485.877,"endTime":2490.027,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"startTime":2485.877,"endTime":2490.027,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"startTime":2490.0370000000003,"endTime":2493.947,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"startTime":2494.197,"endTime":2497.677,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"startTime":2498.247,"endTime":2501.987,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"startTime":2498.247,"endTime":2501.987,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"startTime":2502.007,"endTime":2506.487,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"startTime":2502.007,"endTime":2506.487,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"startTime":2507.117,"endTime":2510.077,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"startTime":2507.117,"endTime":2510.077,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"startTime":2510.277,"endTime":2512.8070000000002,"body":"It really does help new"},{"startTime":2510.277,"endTime":2512.8070000000002,"body":"people to find the show."},{"startTime":2513.897,"endTime":2514.347,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":2515.0170000000003,"endTime":2515.937,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}