{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.706,"endTime":8.306,"body":"It's indeed the case that with"},{"startTime":3.706,"endTime":8.306,"body":"today's technology batteries, hydrogen"},{"startTime":8.306,"endTime":9.566,"body":"is another alternative, right?"},{"startTime":9.566,"endTime":14.326,"body":"So there, there are planes that, that can"},{"startTime":9.566,"endTime":14.326,"body":"fly hydrogen, but the example you brought"},{"startTime":14.326,"endTime":20.489,"body":"up Airbus A320  is an example of a long"},{"startTime":14.326,"endTime":20.489,"body":"haul passenger plane  for which that there"},{"startTime":20.489,"endTime":23.629,"body":"isn't a viable alternative other than SAF."},{"startTime":28.369,"endTime":31.759,"body":"Good morning, good afternoon, or good"},{"startTime":28.369,"endTime":31.759,"body":"evening, wherever you are in the world."},{"startTime":32.149,"endTime":36.859,"body":"Welcome to episode 218 of the Climate"},{"startTime":32.149,"endTime":36.859,"body":"Confident Podcast, the go-to show"},{"startTime":36.859,"endTime":40.369,"body":"for the best practices in climate"},{"startTime":36.859,"endTime":40.369,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"startTime":41.029,"endTime":44.269,"body":"I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and if"},{"startTime":41.029,"endTime":44.269,"body":"you haven't already, be sure to follow"},{"startTime":44.269,"endTime":48.649,"body":"this podcast in your podcast app of"},{"startTime":44.269,"endTime":48.649,"body":"choice, so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":49.759,"endTime":53.389,"body":"Now before we get going, a huge thank you"},{"startTime":49.759,"endTime":53.389,"body":"to this podcast's, incredible supporters."},{"startTime":53.779,"endTime":57.049,"body":"Your backing keeps this podcast"},{"startTime":53.779,"endTime":57.049,"body":"going and I truly appreciate"},{"startTime":57.409,"endTime":58.279,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"startTime":59.239,"endTime":61.939,"body":"If you'd like to join our community,"},{"startTime":59.239,"endTime":61.939,"body":"you can support the show for as little"},{"startTime":61.939,"endTime":64.879,"body":"as three euros or dollars, which is"},{"startTime":61.939,"endTime":64.879,"body":"less than the cost of a cup of coffee."},{"startTime":65.119,"endTime":67.579,"body":"You just need to click the support"},{"startTime":65.119,"endTime":67.579,"body":"link in the show notes of this"},{"startTime":67.579,"endTime":72.619,"body":"or any episode or visit tiny"},{"startTime":67.579,"endTime":72.619,"body":"TinyURL dot com slash climate pod."},{"startTime":73.789,"endTime":77.854,"body":"Now, you know how we keep saying"},{"startTime":73.789,"endTime":77.854,"body":"aviation needs to decarbonize, but"},{"startTime":77.854,"endTime":79.174,"body":"no one can agree on how to do it."},{"startTime":79.984,"endTime":82.384,"body":"Some say batteries,"},{"startTime":79.984,"endTime":82.384,"body":"others swear by hydrogen."},{"startTime":82.744,"endTime":86.704,"body":"But for long haul flights, the"},{"startTime":82.744,"endTime":86.704,"body":"only real answer right now is"},{"startTime":87.124,"endTime":90.334,"body":"sustainable aviation fuel SAF."},{"startTime":91.414,"endTime":95.104,"body":"The problem it's expensive,"},{"startTime":91.414,"endTime":95.104,"body":"hard to scale, and the feed"},{"startTime":95.104,"endTime":96.964,"body":"stocks are all over the place."},{"startTime":98.074,"endTime":99.454,"body":"That's where today's guest comes in."},{"startTime":100.249,"endTime":103.939,"body":"Alexi Beltyukov is behind a"},{"startTime":100.249,"endTime":103.939,"body":"technology that might just crack"},{"startTime":103.939,"endTime":105.949,"body":"the SAF challenge wide open."},{"startTime":106.699,"endTime":111.409,"body":"His company, Universal Fuel Technologies,"},{"startTime":106.699,"endTime":111.409,"body":"has built a process -called flexi forming"},{"startTime":111.799,"endTime":116.659,"body":"that can turn everything from used"},{"startTime":111.799,"endTime":116.659,"body":"cooking oil to industrial byproducts"},{"startTime":116.659,"endTime":122.509,"body":"into high quality jet fuel, with lower"},{"startTime":116.659,"endTime":122.509,"body":"energy, use less waste, and way more"},{"startTime":122.514,"endTime":124.034,"body":"flexibility than current systems."},{"startTime":125.299,"endTime":128.449,"body":"If you've ever wondered how we're"},{"startTime":125.299,"endTime":128.449,"body":"going to get planes flying clean"},{"startTime":128.629,"endTime":132.289,"body":"without waiting for a battery"},{"startTime":128.629,"endTime":132.289,"body":"miracle, this episode is for you."},{"startTime":133.399,"endTime":136.909,"body":"But before we get into that, in the"},{"startTime":133.399,"endTime":136.909,"body":"coming weeks, I'll be speaking to"},{"startTime":138.343,"endTime":141.953,"body":"Avi Greenstein, who's the"},{"startTime":138.343,"endTime":141.953,"body":"CEO of Bamboozle, Sangita"},{"startTime":141.973,"endTime":143.443,"body":"Waldron, who's an author."},{"startTime":144.268,"endTime":147.598,"body":"Laura Miranda Perez, who's head"},{"startTime":144.268,"endTime":147.598,"body":"of sustainability for Oxford"},{"startTime":147.598,"endTime":152.568,"body":"pv and Lisett Luik, who's"},{"startTime":147.598,"endTime":152.568,"body":"co-founder and CEO of Arbonics."},{"startTime":152.908,"endTime":154.828,"body":"So some excellent episodes coming up."},{"startTime":155.531,"endTime":158.231,"body":"Now, back to today's episode,"},{"startTime":155.531,"endTime":158.231,"body":"and as I mentioned, my"},{"startTime":158.231,"endTime":160.031,"body":"special guest today is Alexei."},{"startTime":160.441,"endTime":161.981,"body":"Alexei, welcome to the podcast."},{"startTime":161.981,"endTime":163.841,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"startTime":164.399,"endTime":165.029,"body":"Thank you, Tom."},{"startTime":165.089,"endTime":166.229,"body":"I'm glad to be here."},{"startTime":166.299,"endTime":170.659,"body":"I'm Alex Beltyukov one of the three"},{"startTime":166.299,"endTime":170.659,"body":"founders of Universal Fuel Technologies."},{"startTime":171.719,"endTime":172.199,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":172.239,"endTime":177.449,"body":"And for people who might be unaware, what"},{"startTime":172.239,"endTime":177.449,"body":"is Universal Fuel Technologies, Alexei?"},{"startTime":178.859,"endTime":180.959,"body":"So we are a chemical technology company."},{"startTime":181.009,"endTime":185.499,"body":"Our technology called flex reforming can"},{"startTime":181.009,"endTime":185.499,"body":"convert a pretty wide range of different"},{"startTime":185.499,"endTime":188.409,"body":"things into renewable fuels or chemicals."},{"startTime":189.019,"endTime":192.249,"body":"And so that's the technology we're"},{"startTime":189.019,"endTime":192.249,"body":"perfecting, developing, and proud of."},{"startTime":193.279,"endTime":193.799,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":194.289,"endTime":194.619,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":196.399,"endTime":200.319,"body":"It's a very unusual thing actually in"},{"startTime":196.399,"endTime":200.319,"body":"the, in the world of chemistry and fuels."},{"startTime":200.349,"endTime":205.546,"body":"When you can put in a lot of different"},{"startTime":200.349,"endTime":205.546,"body":"things and you can actually also use the"},{"startTime":205.546,"endTime":208.319,"body":"technology to make a few different things."},{"startTime":208.559,"endTime":211.349,"body":"For example, you can put"},{"startTime":208.559,"endTime":211.349,"body":"in pretty much any alcohol."},{"startTime":211.559,"endTime":215.069,"body":"And, and I will take sort of the"},{"startTime":211.559,"endTime":215.069,"body":"duration of your podcast if I were to"},{"startTime":215.069,"endTime":220.199,"body":"list all of them, but know, methanol,"},{"startTime":215.069,"endTime":220.199,"body":"ethanol, propanol, butanol, and so on."},{"startTime":220.199,"endTime":221.699,"body":"So any alcohol, pretty much."},{"startTime":222.279,"endTime":223.789,"body":"You can put in any ether."},{"startTime":224.759,"endTime":229.459,"body":"You can put in a lot of things that have"},{"startTime":224.759,"endTime":229.459,"body":"sort of the the industry name of naphtas."},{"startTime":229.526,"endTime":230.666,"body":"And you can also mix them up."},{"startTime":230.846,"endTime":231.056,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":231.056,"endTime":233.756,"body":"It's not like you need"},{"startTime":231.056,"endTime":233.756,"body":"to have one pure stream."},{"startTime":233.756,"endTime":238.316,"body":"You can have a mixed stream, which is very"},{"startTime":233.756,"endTime":238.316,"body":"important because many of the byproducts"},{"startTime":238.316,"endTime":244.221,"body":"or side streams of various processes,"},{"startTime":238.316,"endTime":244.221,"body":"they have mixed streams coming out, And,"},{"startTime":244.226,"endTime":249.336,"body":"and many of them would've been valuable"},{"startTime":244.226,"endTime":249.336,"body":"if they were kind of pure play, but"},{"startTime":249.636,"endTime":253.912,"body":"since they're not, it it is usually a"},{"startTime":249.636,"endTime":253.912,"body":"trouble to purify them and process them."},{"startTime":254.302,"endTime":257.832,"body":"And we can take care of such"},{"startTime":254.302,"endTime":257.832,"body":"streams without need to to"},{"startTime":257.832,"endTime":261.593,"body":"split the sort of the individual"},{"startTime":257.832,"endTime":261.593,"body":"molecules into individual slivers."},{"startTime":262.247,"endTime":264.357,"body":"And a similar picture with the product."},{"startTime":264.407,"endTime":268.337,"body":"Our headline product is sustainable"},{"startTime":264.407,"endTime":268.337,"body":"aviation fuel, which usually abbreviated"},{"startTime":268.337,"endTime":273.252,"body":"as SAF, but we can also make a bunch"},{"startTime":268.337,"endTime":273.252,"body":"of renewable chemicals and something"},{"startTime":273.252,"endTime":274.902,"body":"as exotic as renewable gasoline."},{"startTime":275.362,"endTime":279.312,"body":"And by The way, all of that can happen"},{"startTime":275.362,"endTime":279.312,"body":"in the same equipment so you can imagine"},{"startTime":279.312,"endTime":284.292,"body":"that if somebody were to build a chemical"},{"startTime":279.312,"endTime":284.292,"body":"plant and use our technology, they would"},{"startTime":284.292,"endTime":289.672,"body":"have quite a bit more freedom than usual"},{"startTime":284.292,"endTime":289.672,"body":"to select the feeds that they put in, to"},{"startTime":289.672,"endTime":292.852,"body":"select the products that are in demand"},{"startTime":289.672,"endTime":292.852,"body":"in the market at that particular moment."},{"startTime":292.942,"endTime":296.072,"body":"And and that really is quite"},{"startTime":292.942,"endTime":296.072,"body":"a valuable thing to have."},{"startTime":297.172,"endTime":297.562,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":298.192,"endTime":301.662,"body":"So, let's take a step back here."},{"startTime":302.462,"endTime":308.402,"body":"You can take lots of different"},{"startTime":302.462,"endTime":308.402,"body":"inputs and create several outputs."},{"startTime":309.012,"endTime":317.987,"body":"The inputs that you can take, are"},{"startTime":309.012,"endTime":317.987,"body":"they waste from something, some"},{"startTime":317.987,"endTime":322.397,"body":"process, some industry, some, are"},{"startTime":317.987,"endTime":322.397,"body":"they typically waste solutions?"},{"startTime":324.607,"endTime":325.747,"body":"I would probably say no."},{"startTime":326.097,"endTime":329.367,"body":"Like for example, an alcohol"},{"startTime":326.097,"endTime":329.367,"body":"is is rarely a waste."},{"startTime":330.687,"endTime":335.292,"body":"It can be a side stream or can"},{"startTime":330.687,"endTime":335.292,"body":"be a a lower valued product."},{"startTime":335.292,"endTime":340.007,"body":"Like, for example, if there were a mix"},{"startTime":335.292,"endTime":340.007,"body":"of methanol and ethanol there isn't"},{"startTime":340.007,"endTime":342.347,"body":"a ready use for that mix usually."},{"startTime":342.597,"endTime":343.677,"body":"But it's not a waste."},{"startTime":344.447,"endTime":348.337,"body":"Similar story, for example, with a"},{"startTime":344.447,"endTime":348.337,"body":"naphta, which is something that is"},{"startTime":348.337,"endTime":353.297,"body":"a byproduct of people for example,"},{"startTime":348.337,"endTime":353.297,"body":"processing used cooking oil into SAF."},{"startTime":353.684,"endTime":358.387,"body":"When they do that, they have a byproduct"},{"startTime":353.684,"endTime":358.387,"body":"or side stream which is called naphta,"},{"startTime":358.387,"endTime":363.677,"body":"which is hydrocarbon molecules between"},{"startTime":358.387,"endTime":363.677,"body":"usually 5 and 10 carbon atoms in length."},{"startTime":364.537,"endTime":367.827,"body":"And so, these things, you know,"},{"startTime":364.537,"endTime":367.827,"body":"it's a bit of a head scratcher what"},{"startTime":367.827,"endTime":371.427,"body":"to do with it, but there are uses"},{"startTime":367.827,"endTime":371.427,"body":"for it and people are using it."},{"startTime":371.427,"endTime":373.617,"body":"So it's not like they"},{"startTime":371.427,"endTime":373.617,"body":"would otherwise discard it."},{"startTime":373.677,"endTime":378.831,"body":"No it's just that when you apply our"},{"startTime":373.677,"endTime":378.831,"body":"technology to that stream, it creates"},{"startTime":378.931,"endTime":381.631,"body":"substantially higher value than otherwise."},{"startTime":382.811,"endTime":386.831,"body":"Okay, I guess that's what I was"},{"startTime":382.811,"endTime":386.831,"body":"getting to your, your process, the"},{"startTime":386.831,"endTime":393.441,"body":"flexi forming takes something of"},{"startTime":386.831,"endTime":393.441,"body":"apparently low value and then can create"},{"startTime":393.441,"endTime":395.921,"body":"something of hopefully higher value."},{"startTime":396.544,"endTime":400.814,"body":"The headline one that you mentioned"},{"startTime":396.544,"endTime":400.814,"body":"was SAF, sustainable aviation fuel."},{"startTime":401.384,"endTime":408.934,"body":"That's something which is coming"},{"startTime":401.384,"endTime":408.934,"body":"into higher demand these days, and"},{"startTime":409.824,"endTime":414.567,"body":"there's not a huge supply of it as"},{"startTime":409.824,"endTime":414.567,"body":"far as I'm aware, It's hard to get."},{"startTime":414.567,"endTime":417.677,"body":"So obviously supply and demand, that"},{"startTime":414.567,"endTime":417.677,"body":"means it's going to be expensive."},{"startTime":418.167,"endTime":426.447,"body":"And there's a mandate now if I remember"},{"startTime":418.167,"endTime":426.447,"body":"correctly on airports in the EU that the"},{"startTime":426.617,"endTime":431.137,"body":"jet fuel that they stock in their airports"},{"startTime":426.617,"endTime":431.137,"body":"has to be, if I remember correctly,"},{"startTime":431.137,"endTime":437.757,"body":"it's 2 percent sustainable aviation"},{"startTime":431.137,"endTime":437.757,"body":"fuel from 1st of January, 2025 onwards."},{"startTime":438.172,"endTime":442.702,"body":"And that number is going to increase"},{"startTime":438.172,"endTime":442.702,"body":"over the next number of years."},{"startTime":442.962,"endTime":446.442,"body":"So the demand for sustainable"},{"startTime":442.962,"endTime":446.442,"body":"aviation fuel is going to"},{"startTime":446.442,"endTime":448.172,"body":"increase quite significantly."},{"startTime":448.562,"endTime":452.932,"body":"And as I mentioned earlier, there's"},{"startTime":448.562,"endTime":452.932,"body":"not a huge number of suppliers."},{"startTime":452.952,"endTime":455.942,"body":"Is that, is that a fair"},{"startTime":452.952,"endTime":455.942,"body":"summation of where we are today?"},{"startTime":457.279,"endTime":462.309,"body":"The EU is probably the only kind of"},{"startTime":457.279,"endTime":462.309,"body":"legislative area, or jurisdiction"},{"startTime":462.309,"endTime":464.199,"body":"where you have an actual mandate."},{"startTime":464.819,"endTime":467.579,"body":"I think Singapore had something."},{"startTime":467.879,"endTime":471.289,"body":"And Singapore does tend to work"},{"startTime":467.879,"endTime":471.289,"body":"on the mandate side more on the,"},{"startTime":471.679,"endTime":472.969,"body":"more than on the incentive side."},{"startTime":472.969,"endTime":476.769,"body":"So I'm kind of assuming there will"},{"startTime":472.969,"endTime":476.769,"body":"be a mandate too but for example,"},{"startTime":476.769,"endTime":480.619,"body":"North America is more of, of the"},{"startTime":476.769,"endTime":480.619,"body":"sort of incentive inclination"},{"startTime":480.619,"endTime":482.509,"body":"as opposed to mandating things."},{"startTime":483.179,"endTime":486.809,"body":"So yeah, the EU is, is, is the"},{"startTime":483.179,"endTime":486.809,"body":"largest jurisdiction out there"},{"startTime":486.809,"endTime":488.579,"body":"that mandated the use of SAF."},{"startTime":488.639,"endTime":494.669,"body":"And you're right that the supply of SAF is"},{"startTime":488.639,"endTime":494.669,"body":"currently very much less than the demand."},{"startTime":495.089,"endTime":496.159,"body":"Number of reasons."},{"startTime":496.799,"endTime":501.209,"body":"And some of them are dictated by the"},{"startTime":496.799,"endTime":501.209,"body":"physical and sort of chemical realities."},{"startTime":502.494,"endTime":506.407,"body":"The renewable feedstocks that are"},{"startTime":502.494,"endTime":506.407,"body":"suitable for the technologies that are"},{"startTime":506.407,"endTime":509.207,"body":"available today they are scattered."},{"startTime":509.437,"endTime":512.994,"body":"So there's only a little bit of"},{"startTime":509.437,"endTime":512.994,"body":"that at every given geography."},{"startTime":513.424,"endTime":516.861,"body":"And they're generally not as"},{"startTime":513.424,"endTime":516.861,"body":"plentiful as, for example, the crude"},{"startTime":516.861,"endTime":521.781,"body":"oil that we're used to as feedstock"},{"startTime":516.861,"endTime":521.781,"body":"for for making aviation fuel."},{"startTime":522.597,"endTime":524.997,"body":"Yeah, I guess these are the"},{"startTime":522.597,"endTime":524.997,"body":"two, the two big factors."},{"startTime":524.997,"endTime":530.087,"body":"The the other factor that is a little"},{"startTime":524.997,"endTime":530.087,"body":"bit of our own making is  SAF  is"},{"startTime":530.387,"endTime":534.877,"body":"almost by definition more expensive"},{"startTime":530.387,"endTime":534.877,"body":"than jet fuel made from petroleum."},{"startTime":535.397,"endTime":535.587,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":536.157,"endTime":537.297,"body":"And it's inevitable."},{"startTime":537.297,"endTime":542.397,"body":"I mean, the, the nature has worked for"},{"startTime":537.297,"endTime":542.397,"body":"millions of years to create crude oil and"},{"startTime":542.397,"endTime":547.377,"body":"to make it easy for us to manipulate it"},{"startTime":542.397,"endTime":547.377,"body":"chemically, whereas what we're trying to"},{"startTime":547.377,"endTime":552.117,"body":"make SAF from is something that's on the"},{"startTime":547.377,"endTime":552.117,"body":"surface of the Earth which is why we're"},{"startTime":552.117,"endTime":557.537,"body":"not sort of releasing any extra CO2, or"},{"startTime":552.117,"endTime":557.537,"body":"other greenhouse gases, when we burn that."},{"startTime":557.557,"endTime":562.521,"body":"But that makes us compress this"},{"startTime":557.557,"endTime":562.521,"body":"chemical transformation that nature"},{"startTime":562.521,"endTime":564.381,"body":"took millions of years to accomplish."},{"startTime":565.071,"endTime":569.241,"body":"We have to compress it into"},{"startTime":565.071,"endTime":569.241,"body":"a month or days or hours."},{"startTime":569.991,"endTime":573.797,"body":"And so that, that is an expensive"},{"startTime":569.991,"endTime":573.797,"body":"compression to, make, right?"},{"startTime":574.104,"endTime":577.831,"body":"And that being more expensive,"},{"startTime":574.104,"endTime":577.831,"body":"the production of  SAF  depends"},{"startTime":577.831,"endTime":580.291,"body":"on the incentives that the"},{"startTime":577.831,"endTime":580.291,"body":"government puts out there."},{"startTime":580.681,"endTime":584.671,"body":"I mean, in the EU, if you don't have SAF,"},{"startTime":580.681,"endTime":584.671,"body":"then you're probably not in business."},{"startTime":585.121,"endTime":586.351,"body":"And so that's the incentive."},{"startTime":586.751,"endTime":589.181,"body":"In North America, it's"},{"startTime":586.751,"endTime":589.181,"body":"more sort of a tax play."},{"startTime":589.431,"endTime":592.941,"body":"If you make SAF with certain"},{"startTime":589.431,"endTime":592.941,"body":"characteristics, then the government"},{"startTime":592.941,"endTime":595.161,"body":"will give you back some tax dollars."},{"startTime":595.861,"endTime":600.031,"body":"And so the balance of, of all these"},{"startTime":595.861,"endTime":600.031,"body":"incentives, it influences whether people"},{"startTime":600.031,"endTime":605.041,"body":"are using their production facilities to"},{"startTime":600.031,"endTime":605.041,"body":"make SAF or for example, renewable diesel"},{"startTime":605.191,"endTime":607.531,"body":"which sometimes uses the same feedstock."},{"startTime":608.226,"endTime":610.956,"body":"And so there's a bit of an"},{"startTime":608.226,"endTime":610.956,"body":"internal competition there between"},{"startTime":610.956,"endTime":612.729,"body":"the renewable diesel and  SAF."},{"startTime":613.519,"endTime":615.379,"body":"And sometimes renewable diesel wins."},{"startTime":615.529,"endTime":619.429,"body":"Which, I mean, it is not a bad thing"},{"startTime":615.529,"endTime":619.429,"body":"because we're still  reducing the use of"},{"startTime":619.429,"endTime":623.299,"body":"petroleum and replacing it with something"},{"startTime":619.429,"endTime":623.299,"body":"that's on the surface of the earth."},{"startTime":623.299,"endTime":626.949,"body":"But sometimes depending on how the"},{"startTime":623.299,"endTime":626.949,"body":"government wants to play, people are"},{"startTime":626.949,"endTime":629.619,"body":"making more SAF or more renewable diesel."},{"startTime":630.817,"endTime":640.217,"body":"And, obviously, in terms of the renewable"},{"startTime":630.817,"endTime":640.217,"body":"diesel, that can be substituted reasonably"},{"startTime":640.217,"endTime":644.967,"body":"straightforwardly using if it's if it's"},{"startTime":640.217,"endTime":644.967,"body":"used in trucking, for example, it can"},{"startTime":644.967,"endTime":647.417,"body":"be substituted by battery technology."},{"startTime":647.417,"endTime":650.127,"body":"So electric trucks are"},{"startTime":647.417,"endTime":650.127,"body":"now becoming a thing."},{"startTime":650.547,"endTime":653.757,"body":"There's no great leap forward"},{"startTime":650.547,"endTime":653.757,"body":"required in technology to do that."},{"startTime":653.757,"endTime":655.107,"body":"It's here today."},{"startTime":655.427,"endTime":658.711,"body":"Charging infrastructure needs to be rolled"},{"startTime":655.427,"endTime":658.711,"body":"out, but that's easily done as well."},{"startTime":658.711,"endTime":660.541,"body":"Not easily, but that's doable as well."},{"startTime":661.251,"endTime":669.886,"body":"Whereas in the aviation industry, there"},{"startTime":661.251,"endTime":669.886,"body":"are some electric planes, but so far,"},{"startTime":670.156,"endTime":676.366,"body":"the batteries we have today are not"},{"startTime":670.156,"endTime":676.366,"body":"suitable for an A320, for example."},{"startTime":676.686,"endTime":681.836,"body":"You're not going to have an Airbus"},{"startTime":676.686,"endTime":681.836,"body":"A320, put batteries in, carry 200"},{"startTime":681.836,"endTime":685.926,"body":"people, 5000 kilometers, that's just"},{"startTime":681.836,"endTime":685.926,"body":"not going to happen, not with the"},{"startTime":685.926,"endTime":687.156,"body":"battery technology we have today."},{"startTime":687.156,"endTime":695.786,"body":"So sustainable aviation fuel is the"},{"startTime":687.156,"endTime":695.786,"body":"only viable alternative that I'm aware"},{"startTime":695.801,"endTime":700.151,"body":"of today for reducing the emissions"},{"startTime":695.801,"endTime":700.151,"body":"from the aviation industry, which is"},{"startTime":700.151,"endTime":705.211,"body":"why it's so important that we start"},{"startTime":700.151,"endTime":705.211,"body":"shifting the aviation industry to"},{"startTime":705.311,"endTime":706.811,"body":"sustainable aviation fuel, right?"},{"startTime":707.846,"endTime":708.716,"body":"I agree with you, Tom."},{"startTime":708.966,"endTime":713.356,"body":"It's, it's indeed the case that"},{"startTime":708.966,"endTime":713.356,"body":"with today's technology batteries,"},{"startTime":713.536,"endTime":715.246,"body":"hydrogen is another alternative, right?"},{"startTime":715.246,"endTime":720.006,"body":"So there, there are planes that, that can"},{"startTime":715.246,"endTime":720.006,"body":"fly hydrogen, but the example you brought"},{"startTime":720.006,"endTime":726.169,"body":"up Airbus A320  is an example of a long"},{"startTime":720.006,"endTime":726.169,"body":"haul passenger plane  for which that there"},{"startTime":726.169,"endTime":729.309,"body":"isn't a viable alternative other than SAF."},{"startTime":729.309,"endTime":732.714,"body":"So maybe somebody will come up with a"},{"startTime":729.309,"endTime":732.714,"body":"breakthrough, and maybe we'll have a"},{"startTime":732.714,"endTime":735.641,"body":"different kind of power for large planes."},{"startTime":735.641,"endTime":741.071,"body":"But so far, it looks like at least half of"},{"startTime":735.641,"endTime":741.071,"body":"the fleet, at least half of the passenger"},{"startTime":741.071,"endTime":746.321,"body":"kilometers traveled don't really have any,"},{"startTime":741.071,"endTime":746.321,"body":"any viable alternative other than SAF."},{"startTime":746.467,"endTime":748.267,"body":"And probably the percentage is greater."},{"startTime":748.267,"endTime":752.167,"body":"It's just that, you know, 50 is the,"},{"startTime":748.267,"endTime":752.167,"body":"let's say, the smaller bound of, of that."},{"startTime":752.867,"endTime":753.117,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":753.207,"endTime":758.827,"body":"And the other thing to take into account"},{"startTime":753.207,"endTime":758.827,"body":"as well is that for the airlines, when"},{"startTime":758.827,"endTime":764.582,"body":"they buy an airframe when they buy"},{"startTime":758.827,"endTime":764.582,"body":"a plane, the lifetime, the expected"},{"startTime":764.582,"endTime":770.052,"body":"lifetime of that plane is measured in,"},{"startTime":764.582,"endTime":770.052,"body":"two, three decades, as opposed to years."},{"startTime":770.052,"endTime":772.312,"body":"It's not like a car or a truck."},{"startTime":772.502,"endTime":775.382,"body":"It's supposed to last, you"},{"startTime":772.502,"endTime":775.382,"body":"know, 20, 30 years probably."},{"startTime":775.762,"endTime":780.562,"body":"And so if they buy a plane today,"},{"startTime":775.762,"endTime":780.562,"body":"it should still be operational"},{"startTime":780.562,"endTime":783.742,"body":"in 2045 at the very least."},{"startTime":784.082,"endTime":789.572,"body":"And so that case, you can't"},{"startTime":784.082,"endTime":789.572,"body":"shift that to electric."},{"startTime":790.112,"endTime":793.142,"body":"That is going to be burning fuel"},{"startTime":790.112,"endTime":793.142,"body":"because it has the jets on it,"},{"startTime":793.492,"endTime":797.232,"body":"for the next 20 years and so"},{"startTime":793.492,"endTime":797.232,"body":"sustainable aviation fuel is the only"},{"startTime":797.232,"endTime":799.122,"body":"alternative for most planes today."},{"startTime":800.082,"endTime":801.192,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":801.236,"endTime":804.756,"body":"Thank you for  bringing this up"},{"startTime":801.236,"endTime":804.756,"body":"about the longevity of the planes."},{"startTime":805.206,"endTime":807.456,"body":"And and we actually we want"},{"startTime":805.206,"endTime":807.456,"body":"them to last longer, right?"},{"startTime":807.492,"endTime":809.839,"body":"It's sort of the the right"},{"startTime":807.492,"endTime":809.839,"body":"and sustainable thing to do."},{"startTime":810.176,"endTime":812.396,"body":"But that also has a"},{"startTime":810.176,"endTime":812.396,"body":"bunch of other effects."},{"startTime":812.426,"endTime":817.271,"body":"Like, for example the planes that"},{"startTime":812.426,"endTime":817.271,"body":"were made basically, until a couple"},{"startTime":817.271,"endTime":822.011,"body":"of years ago, they all had the a"},{"startTime":817.271,"endTime":822.011,"body":"material of the gaskets or the seals"},{"startTime":822.061,"endTime":826.831,"body":"in, in their fuel transportation"},{"startTime":822.061,"endTime":826.831,"body":"system, the seals that require"},{"startTime":826.861,"endTime":830.411,"body":"presence of a certain kind of molecule"},{"startTime":826.861,"endTime":830.411,"body":"which is called aromatic molecules."},{"startTime":830.991,"endTime":834.909,"body":"For these seals to stay, you know, plum"},{"startTime":830.991,"endTime":834.909,"body":"so that they wouldn't bleak, Right."},{"startTime":835.359,"endTime":840.616,"body":"Because that Cal molecule was ubiquitous"},{"startTime":835.359,"endTime":840.616,"body":"in the fossil produced petroleum."},{"startTime":841.246,"endTime":844.996,"body":"And so now when people are making SAF,"},{"startTime":841.246,"endTime":844.996,"body":"many of them are actually, most of the SAF"},{"startTime":844.996,"endTime":850.196,"body":"that is made today is devoid of that kind"},{"startTime":844.996,"endTime":850.196,"body":"of molecule which is why people have to"},{"startTime":850.196,"endTime":855.386,"body":"mix it, to blend it with the fossil jet"},{"startTime":850.196,"endTime":855.386,"body":"so that the aromatic molecules would enter"},{"startTime":855.386,"endTime":860.696,"body":"the, the universe of the fuel through the"},{"startTime":855.386,"endTime":860.696,"body":"petroleum of, the fossil, the fossil side."},{"startTime":861.336,"endTime":865.406,"body":"And even though people are starting to"},{"startTime":861.336,"endTime":865.406,"body":"make planes that do not require this"},{"startTime":865.406,"endTime":869.301,"body":"molecule to be present for everything"},{"startTime":865.406,"endTime":869.301,"body":"to work well, for as long as as"},{"startTime":869.301,"endTime":873.839,"body":"there's a single plane with this legacy"},{"startTime":869.301,"endTime":873.839,"body":"technology in operation, you can't"},{"startTime":873.839,"endTime":877.619,"body":"have an airport that can only take"},{"startTime":873.839,"endTime":877.619,"body":"certain kind of planes of a certain age."},{"startTime":878.409,"endTime":879.339,"body":"Just impractical."},{"startTime":879.339,"endTime":882.516,"body":"And You cannot have two sets of tanks"},{"startTime":879.339,"endTime":882.516,"body":"in the airport, you know, for the"},{"startTime":882.516,"endTime":884.166,"body":"new planes versus the old planes."},{"startTime":884.496,"endTime":888.664,"body":"So for as long as there is a single"},{"startTime":884.496,"endTime":888.664,"body":"old plane flying out there you"},{"startTime":888.664,"endTime":890.434,"body":"have to have full compatibility."},{"startTime":890.599,"endTime":893.029,"body":"And so you have to have"},{"startTime":890.599,"endTime":893.029,"body":"these aromatic molecules."},{"startTime":893.359,"endTime":897.709,"body":"So people are now working to produce these"},{"startTime":893.359,"endTime":897.709,"body":"molecules from the renewable sources."},{"startTime":898.009,"endTime":899.059,"body":"We're one of those people."},{"startTime":900.041,"endTime":904.284,"body":"And you're using this technology called"},{"startTime":900.041,"endTime":904.284,"body":"flexi forming, which you have come"},{"startTime":904.284,"endTime":908.234,"body":"up with yourselves and you have all"},{"startTime":904.284,"endTime":908.234,"body":"the IP around as far as I'm aware,"},{"startTime":908.264,"endTime":911.744,"body":"correct me if I'm wrong on that one,"},{"startTime":908.264,"endTime":911.744,"body":"but can you explain in simple terms"},{"startTime":911.994,"endTime":916.559,"body":"how it differs from traditional"},{"startTime":911.994,"endTime":916.559,"body":"methods like, Fischer Tropsch, or HEFA?"},{"startTime":917.229,"endTime":918.309,"body":"These are different technologies."},{"startTime":918.309,"endTime":920.829,"body":"Like, you HEFA is different from"},{"startTime":918.309,"endTime":920.829,"body":"Fischer Tropsch, as you're aware, right?"},{"startTime":920.829,"endTime":926.235,"body":"So HEFA, you take something like used"},{"startTime":920.829,"endTime":926.235,"body":"cooking oil, ideally, and you put it"},{"startTime":926.235,"endTime":929.395,"body":"under certain temperature and pressure"},{"startTime":926.235,"endTime":929.395,"body":"and add a lot of hydrogen to it."},{"startTime":929.875,"endTime":933.845,"body":"And then the molecules in the"},{"startTime":929.875,"endTime":933.845,"body":"cooking oil transform themselves"},{"startTime":933.845,"endTime":938.165,"body":"into molecules that are similar to"},{"startTime":933.845,"endTime":938.165,"body":"what you would find in, in a fuel."},{"startTime":938.699,"endTime":940.889,"body":"In Fischer–Tropsch, you"},{"startTime":938.699,"endTime":940.889,"body":"string things along, right?"},{"startTime":940.889,"endTime":944.069,"body":"So you, you take smaller"},{"startTime":940.889,"endTime":944.069,"body":"molecules and and you force them"},{"startTime":944.069,"endTime":945.869,"body":"together to form longer chains."},{"startTime":946.519,"endTime":950.362,"body":"So our process, works"},{"startTime":946.519,"endTime":950.362,"body":"in the following manner."},{"startTime":950.362,"endTime":954.952,"body":"We take smaller molecules, usually,"},{"startTime":950.362,"endTime":954.952,"body":"I mean, it can be of different sizes,"},{"startTime":954.952,"endTime":958.342,"body":"but usually smaller molecules, and"},{"startTime":954.952,"endTime":958.342,"body":"we do string them together, but"},{"startTime":958.402,"endTime":960.807,"body":"we also force them to make rings."},{"startTime":960.807,"endTime":961.637,"body":"The aromatic rings."},{"startTime":962.217,"endTime":966.637,"body":"And then depending on what we want"},{"startTime":962.217,"endTime":966.637,"body":"to have as a product, we can either"},{"startTime":966.637,"endTime":970.067,"body":"keep these rings as they are, we"},{"startTime":966.637,"endTime":970.067,"body":"can add different branches to these"},{"startTime":970.067,"endTime":974.694,"body":"rings to make the molecules larger,"},{"startTime":970.067,"endTime":974.694,"body":"or we can cut them open into kind of"},{"startTime":974.694,"endTime":976.644,"body":"a flat structure or linear structure."},{"startTime":977.389,"endTime":978.409,"body":"So that's what we do."},{"startTime":978.409,"endTime":981.445,"body":"And,  if you kind of recall, I"},{"startTime":978.409,"endTime":981.445,"body":"said we have, we can have different"},{"startTime":981.445,"endTime":983.035,"body":"alcohols, we can have this and that."},{"startTime":983.035,"endTime":986.245,"body":"So imagine, you know, like"},{"startTime":983.035,"endTime":986.245,"body":"ethanol as, as, an example of"},{"startTime":986.245,"endTime":988.195,"body":"an alcohol has two carbon atoms."},{"startTime":988.375,"endTime":988.615,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":989.015,"endTime":991.535,"body":"Jet fuel should have at"},{"startTime":989.015,"endTime":991.535,"body":"least nine carbon atoms."},{"startTime":991.535,"endTime":996.405,"body":"So we should string together at least five"},{"startTime":991.535,"endTime":996.405,"body":"of these molecules either as a line or"},{"startTime":996.405,"endTime":998.625,"body":"as a ring or as a ring with the branches."},{"startTime":998.99,"endTime":1000.55,"body":"So that's what our process does."},{"startTime":1000.55,"endTime":1003.85,"body":"It sort of, it adds molecules"},{"startTime":1000.55,"endTime":1003.85,"body":"together and changes the shape"},{"startTime":1003.85,"endTime":1005.08,"body":"of the molecules as needed."},{"startTime":1006.16,"endTime":1011.244,"body":"And scaling up SAF production"},{"startTime":1006.16,"endTime":1011.244,"body":"is obviously a huge challenge."},{"startTime":1012.314,"endTime":1015.244,"body":"One of the biggest challenges is"},{"startTime":1012.314,"endTime":1015.244,"body":"probably feedstock availability."},{"startTime":1015.584,"endTime":1018.944,"body":"Does flexi forming address the"},{"startTime":1015.584,"endTime":1018.944,"body":"issue of feedstock dependency,"},{"startTime":1018.944,"endTime":1020.184,"body":"and price volatility?"},{"startTime":1049.559,"endTime":1050.069,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1050.259,"endTime":1054.6190000000001,"body":"I mean, we are not kind of a solve"},{"startTime":1050.259,"endTime":1054.6190000000001,"body":"all, cure all kind of situation."},{"startTime":1054.6190000000001,"endTime":1057.835,"body":"But I think we do a"},{"startTime":1054.6190000000001,"endTime":1057.835,"body":"pretty good job on that."},{"startTime":1057.835,"endTime":1059.162,"body":"Better than,  what we have today."},{"startTime":1059.162,"endTime":1063.472,"body":"So we believe we are maybe like the"},{"startTime":1059.162,"endTime":1063.472,"body":"second generation of, of SAF technology."},{"startTime":1064.102,"endTime":1065.902,"body":"So the way we do it is twofold."},{"startTime":1066.2720000000002,"endTime":1070.172,"body":"First, as you recall, we can take a"},{"startTime":1066.2720000000002,"endTime":1070.172,"body":"bunch of different feedstocks and  the"},{"startTime":1070.172,"endTime":1074.102,"body":"feedstock can be changed by the plant"},{"startTime":1070.172,"endTime":1074.102,"body":"operator without changing the equipment."},{"startTime":1074.482,"endTime":1078.892,"body":"So that  gives them a lot of flexibility"},{"startTime":1074.482,"endTime":1078.892,"body":"with regard to which feedstock they"},{"startTime":1078.892,"endTime":1082.422,"body":"choose at a particular time, where"},{"startTime":1078.892,"endTime":1082.422,"body":"it would come from, and so on."},{"startTime":1083.102,"endTime":1088.1670000000001,"body":"The other aspect is, is like you said,"},{"startTime":1083.102,"endTime":1088.1670000000001,"body":"the renewable feedstocks rarely come"},{"startTime":1088.217,"endTime":1090.047,"body":"in large quantities from one source."},{"startTime":1090.597,"endTime":1093.712,"body":"So frequently there is a"},{"startTime":1090.597,"endTime":1093.712,"body":"relatively small source of it."},{"startTime":1093.877,"endTime":1097.497,"body":"It can be a a kind of a permanent"},{"startTime":1093.877,"endTime":1097.497,"body":"source, but it's a relatively small"},{"startTime":1097.497,"endTime":1101.6670000000001,"body":"source compared to the operation"},{"startTime":1097.497,"endTime":1101.6670000000001,"body":"of of an oil refinery, for example."},{"startTime":1102.217,"endTime":1107.527,"body":"And so it's very important that the"},{"startTime":1102.217,"endTime":1107.527,"body":"technology that can convert the feed"},{"startTime":1107.527,"endTime":1111.837,"body":"from that source is such that it can"},{"startTime":1107.527,"endTime":1111.837,"body":"work profitably at such a small scale."},{"startTime":1112.1870000000001,"endTime":1118.1200000000001,"body":"And our technology is is better at that"},{"startTime":1112.1870000000001,"endTime":1118.1200000000001,"body":"than  pretty much everybody else, because"},{"startTime":1118.1200000000001,"endTime":1120.3400000000001,"body":"of our, our origins back in the day."},{"startTime":1120.65,"endTime":1123.68,"body":"We were serving really small"},{"startTime":1120.65,"endTime":1123.68,"body":"customers that were processing"},{"startTime":1123.68,"endTime":1125.1200000000001,"body":"really unusual feed stocks."},{"startTime":1125.67,"endTime":1128.79,"body":"And so that is something that"},{"startTime":1125.67,"endTime":1128.79,"body":"is highly applicable to that"},{"startTime":1128.79,"endTime":1131.19,"body":"particular aspect of self production."},{"startTime":1132.635,"endTime":1135.825,"body":"Looking at current SAF adoption."},{"startTime":1135.825,"endTime":1137.415,"body":"It's still very, very low."},{"startTime":1138.065,"endTime":1143.305,"body":"Do you think the regulatory frameworks"},{"startTime":1138.065,"endTime":1143.305,"body":"are supporting innovation enough?"},{"startTime":1143.325,"endTime":1147.8590000000002,"body":"Or is regulation lagging"},{"startTime":1143.325,"endTime":1147.8590000000002,"body":"behind technology?"},{"startTime":1147.8790000000001,"endTime":1151.959,"body":"I mean, the amount of airlines"},{"startTime":1147.8790000000001,"endTime":1151.959,"body":"that are using significant amounts"},{"startTime":1151.959,"endTime":1157.199,"body":"of SAF in their fuel mix is"},{"startTime":1151.959,"endTime":1157.199,"body":"obviously pitifully low right now."},{"startTime":1157.239,"endTime":1160.3590000000002,"body":"So some of that is regulatory issues."},{"startTime":1160.3690000000001,"endTime":1164.1190000000001,"body":"Some of it is availability probably"},{"startTime":1160.3690000000001,"endTime":1164.1190000000001,"body":"and price, how do we fix that?"},{"startTime":1164.81,"endTime":1167.3,"body":"I think gradual is the word, right?"},{"startTime":1167.674,"endTime":1171.794,"body":"Aviation is is a pretty sensitive area"},{"startTime":1167.674,"endTime":1171.794,"body":"in a sense that, if something were"},{"startTime":1171.794,"endTime":1177.92,"body":"to happen it, it can really totally"},{"startTime":1171.794,"endTime":1177.92,"body":"destroy things that were building up."},{"startTime":1178.4550000000002,"endTime":1178.785,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1179.339,"endTime":1183.0220000000002,"body":"If for example, somebody were to,  put"},{"startTime":1179.339,"endTime":1183.0220000000002,"body":"a fuel in a plane that wouldn't be"},{"startTime":1183.0220000000002,"endTime":1187.759,"body":"suitable and would cause something"},{"startTime":1183.0220000000002,"endTime":1187.759,"body":"to happen to that plane it can"},{"startTime":1187.759,"endTime":1189.409,"body":"completely discredit the entire effort."},{"startTime":1189.769,"endTime":1195.169,"body":"So, as, as obviously as a technology"},{"startTime":1189.769,"endTime":1195.169,"body":"developer, I'm all for rapid progress"},{"startTime":1195.169,"endTime":1198.789,"body":"and a rapid adoption, our technology"},{"startTime":1195.169,"endTime":1198.789,"body":"taking over the world and all that."},{"startTime":1199.219,"endTime":1202.759,"body":"But at the same time, you know, being"},{"startTime":1199.219,"endTime":1202.759,"body":"realistic and also somebody who flies"},{"startTime":1202.759,"endTime":1207.929,"body":"planes every now and then, I I'm really"},{"startTime":1202.759,"endTime":1207.929,"body":"grateful to the people who do the"},{"startTime":1207.929,"endTime":1210.209,"body":"fuel qualification and certification."},{"startTime":1210.6390000000001,"endTime":1214.419,"body":"Even though they they do give us you"},{"startTime":1210.6390000000001,"endTime":1214.419,"body":"know, and the likes of us, a hard time"},{"startTime":1214.439,"endTime":1218.499,"body":"at the time of passing through these"},{"startTime":1214.439,"endTime":1218.499,"body":"hoops that they've set up for us."},{"startTime":1218.949,"endTime":1221.799,"body":"But that is to make sure"},{"startTime":1218.949,"endTime":1221.799,"body":"that we don't backtrack."},{"startTime":1221.949,"endTime":1225.8790000000001,"body":"So the progress is slow, but so"},{"startTime":1221.949,"endTime":1225.8790000000001,"body":"far we have not backtracked, and"},{"startTime":1225.8790000000001,"endTime":1227.409,"body":"I'm glad that that hasn't happened."},{"startTime":1228.0990000000002,"endTime":1229.979,"body":"Maybe we can accelerate a little bit."},{"startTime":1230.209,"endTime":1234.739,"body":"But not by by a whole lot, because"},{"startTime":1230.209,"endTime":1234.739,"body":"again, I mean, one false step in in"},{"startTime":1234.739,"endTime":1240.439,"body":"such a high visibility area, and and we"},{"startTime":1234.739,"endTime":1240.439,"body":"can roll back, you know, quite a bit."},{"startTime":1240.439,"endTime":1244.339,"body":"So I, I'd rather have a slow and"},{"startTime":1240.439,"endTime":1244.339,"body":"steady progress that we have been"},{"startTime":1244.339,"endTime":1248.449,"body":"seeing so far, despite the fact"},{"startTime":1244.339,"endTime":1248.449,"body":"that, yes, I mean, for now, adoption"},{"startTime":1248.449,"endTime":1250.439,"body":"of SAF is really quite miniscule."},{"startTime":1250.809,"endTime":1254.345,"body":"Although actually kind of a bit of a"},{"startTime":1250.809,"endTime":1254.345,"body":"a bit of a footnote to that minuscule"},{"startTime":1254.345,"endTime":1257.9450000000002,"body":"adoption, if you look at the growth"},{"startTime":1254.345,"endTime":1257.9450000000002,"body":"rates, the growth rates are staggering."},{"startTime":1258.095,"endTime":1262.525,"body":"I mean, at no time since,"},{"startTime":1258.095,"endTime":1262.525,"body":"like 1920s, did we have such a"},{"startTime":1262.525,"endTime":1264.615,"body":"growth in a energy commodity."},{"startTime":1265.809,"endTime":1270.079,"body":"Both production and obviously consumption"},{"startTime":1265.809,"endTime":1270.079,"body":"of  SAF  grows by you know, high"},{"startTime":1270.079,"endTime":1271.8490000000002,"body":"double digit percentages every year."},{"startTime":1272.039,"endTime":1275.499,"body":"And it's predicted to, to continue"},{"startTime":1272.039,"endTime":1275.499,"body":"growing like that for some time."},{"startTime":1275.9950000000001,"endTime":1279.565,"body":"I would imagine we're gonna see"},{"startTime":1275.9950000000001,"endTime":1279.565,"body":"a similar pattern to what we've"},{"startTime":1279.565,"endTime":1281.2150000000001,"body":"seen with electric vehicles."},{"startTime":1281.9650000000001,"endTime":1284.905,"body":"When in the beginning, it was"},{"startTime":1281.9650000000001,"endTime":1284.905,"body":"nothing but a toy for rich people."},{"startTime":1285.4950000000001,"endTime":1293.075,"body":"And I remember back in like 2012, I think"},{"startTime":1285.4950000000001,"endTime":1293.075,"body":"it was when I visited Silicon Valley"},{"startTime":1293.135,"endTime":1298.545,"body":"and I saw, you know, this guy driving a"},{"startTime":1293.135,"endTime":1298.545,"body":"Tesla Roadster, which was the first Tesla"},{"startTime":1298.545,"endTime":1303.2250000000001,"body":"car out there, was a completely, you"},{"startTime":1298.545,"endTime":1303.2250000000001,"body":"know, useless thing toy for rich people."},{"startTime":1303.2250000000001,"endTime":1306.4650000000001,"body":"You know, it did, you know, it"},{"startTime":1303.2250000000001,"endTime":1306.4650000000001,"body":"barely carried one passenger"},{"startTime":1306.895,"endTime":1308.395,"body":"and not a long distance either."},{"startTime":1308.545,"endTime":1312.625,"body":"And today, you know, you, you can ride"},{"startTime":1308.545,"endTime":1312.625,"body":"your Tesla, you know, almost anywhere"},{"startTime":1312.625,"endTime":1314.6950000000002,"body":"in the world for long distance."},{"startTime":1314.6950000000002,"endTime":1318.025,"body":"And, you know, it's, it's a good"},{"startTime":1314.6950000000002,"endTime":1318.025,"body":"car and people are buying it."},{"startTime":1318.2350000000001,"endTime":1321.625,"body":"not because it's electric, but"},{"startTime":1318.2350000000001,"endTime":1321.625,"body":"because of, you other factors."},{"startTime":1322.105,"endTime":1326.959,"body":"And so I'm thinking that we are set to"},{"startTime":1322.105,"endTime":1326.959,"body":"experience the same trajectory with SAF."},{"startTime":1327.749,"endTime":1331.439,"body":"So for now it's, you know, an exotic"},{"startTime":1327.749,"endTime":1331.439,"body":"thing and airlines say, Oh, you"},{"startTime":1331.439,"endTime":1335.6090000000002,"body":"know, I'm putting, you know, this"},{"startTime":1331.439,"endTime":1335.6090000000002,"body":"many gallons of SAF in my, you know,"},{"startTime":1335.969,"endTime":1338.789,"body":"multi ton kind of capacity tank."},{"startTime":1339.219,"endTime":1344.919,"body":"And and everybody gets excited about"},{"startTime":1339.219,"endTime":1344.919,"body":"the sort of notional addition of of SAF."},{"startTime":1345.459,"endTime":1348.969,"body":"But as as the technology grow, you"},{"startTime":1345.459,"endTime":1348.969,"body":"know, costs come down you know,"},{"startTime":1348.969,"endTime":1351.1290000000001,"body":"regulations you know, get perfected."},{"startTime":1351.239,"endTime":1355.3490000000002,"body":"People discover new feedstocks and new"},{"startTime":1351.239,"endTime":1355.3490000000002,"body":"ways of converting these feedstock."},{"startTime":1355.3490000000002,"endTime":1357.839,"body":"Hopefully, we can play"},{"startTime":1355.3490000000002,"endTime":1357.839,"body":"a little role in that."},{"startTime":1358.049,"endTime":1362.4750000000001,"body":"So over time, it's, it's just gonna"},{"startTime":1358.049,"endTime":1362.4750000000001,"body":"solidify and improve and and just"},{"startTime":1362.4750000000001,"endTime":1363.8300000000002,"body":"become, you know, commonplace."},{"startTime":1364.095,"endTime":1365.025,"body":"Of course, I'm flying."},{"startTime":1366.4850000000001,"endTime":1370.605,"body":"SAF, some people will start saying this,"},{"startTime":1366.4850000000001,"endTime":1370.605,"body":"you know, probably within a decade."},{"startTime":1371.625,"endTime":1378.949,"body":"Interesting, in the last 10 years, we've"},{"startTime":1371.625,"endTime":1378.949,"body":"seen the price of the batteries for"},{"startTime":1378.949,"endTime":1384.0990000000002,"body":"electric vehicles dropped by over 90"},{"startTime":1378.949,"endTime":1384.0990000000002,"body":"percent and at the same time, their energy"},{"startTime":1384.0990000000002,"endTime":1386.659,"body":"density has increased three to four fold."},{"startTime":1387.229,"endTime":1390.039,"body":"So two things come out of that."},{"startTime":1390.739,"endTime":1396.854,"body":"First is, do you think you'll get a"},{"startTime":1390.739,"endTime":1396.854,"body":"similar kind of learning curve and"},{"startTime":1396.864,"endTime":1400.4840000000002,"body":"drop in price of SAF to the point"},{"startTime":1396.864,"endTime":1400.4840000000002,"body":"where it would be competitive with"},{"startTime":1401.344,"endTime":1408.364,"body":"traditional jet fuel fossil fuel and"},{"startTime":1401.344,"endTime":1408.364,"body":"b) the other side of that is if that"},{"startTime":1408.424,"endTime":1412.7640000000001,"body":"technology in batteries keeps evolving"},{"startTime":1408.424,"endTime":1412.7640000000001,"body":"the same way with the prices dropping"},{"startTime":1412.7640000000001,"endTime":1417.654,"body":"and the energy density increasing,"},{"startTime":1412.7640000000001,"endTime":1417.654,"body":"would that maybe take over from SAF?"},{"startTime":1418.8020000000001,"endTime":1420.722,"body":"I think both factors can be at play."},{"startTime":1421.202,"endTime":1426.297,"body":"You know, we haven't lived for 500"},{"startTime":1421.202,"endTime":1426.297,"body":"years, but we have lived for long"},{"startTime":1426.297,"endTime":1430.112,"body":"enough to see, you know, certain"},{"startTime":1426.297,"endTime":1430.112,"body":"technologies take over completely"},{"startTime":1430.112,"endTime":1435.1490000000001,"body":"from  a level where they you know, were"},{"startTime":1430.112,"endTime":1435.1490000000001,"body":"nothing but a scientific curiosity."},{"startTime":1435.779,"endTime":1438.029,"body":"Like a computer or a mobile phone, right?"},{"startTime":1438.029,"endTime":1443.489,"body":"I mean, like, I understand the view, just"},{"startTime":1438.029,"endTime":1443.489,"body":"like I grew without a mobile phone, right?"},{"startTime":1445.409,"endTime":1447.089,"body":"now, you know, it's unimaginable."},{"startTime":1447.089,"endTime":1448.499,"body":"Same story with a computer."},{"startTime":1449.699,"endTime":1451.8890000000001,"body":"So probably both is going to be the case."},{"startTime":1451.8890000000001,"endTime":1456.059,"body":"So I think that both the, the"},{"startTime":1451.8890000000001,"endTime":1456.059,"body":"chemical technologies will,"},{"startTime":1456.059,"endTime":1460.329,"body":"will, will go and improve and"},{"startTime":1456.059,"endTime":1460.329,"body":"we'll have a downward cost trend."},{"startTime":1460.429,"endTime":1464.089,"body":"On on just the production of"},{"startTime":1460.429,"endTime":1464.089,"body":"SAF from different feedstocks"},{"startTime":1464.089,"endTime":1465.769,"body":"and different ways and so on."},{"startTime":1466.249,"endTime":1470.209,"body":"And I'm hopeful that the battery"},{"startTime":1466.249,"endTime":1470.209,"body":"manufacturers will also, and the battery"},{"startTime":1470.209,"endTime":1472.489,"body":"scientists will improve their product too."},{"startTime":1472.8490000000002,"endTime":1476.029,"body":"So we'll, in the end, have a"},{"startTime":1472.8490000000002,"endTime":1476.029,"body":"competition between the two options,"},{"startTime":1476.029,"endTime":1477.969,"body":"and who knows what's gonna win."},{"startTime":1478.279,"endTime":1482.579,"body":"You know, if, if they put, like, a"},{"startTime":1478.279,"endTime":1482.579,"body":"portable nuclear reactor in a plane,"},{"startTime":1482.579,"endTime":1484.319,"body":"maybe could be better than SAF."},{"startTime":1485.127,"endTime":1491.297,"body":"So do you think consumer awareness"},{"startTime":1485.127,"endTime":1491.297,"body":"of sustainable aviation fuels could"},{"startTime":1491.4270000000001,"endTime":1493.317,"body":"influence airline choices in the future?"},{"startTime":1493.317,"endTime":1498.507,"body":"Because I,  I suspect the"},{"startTime":1493.317,"endTime":1498.507,"body":"consumer awareness of sustainable"},{"startTime":1498.507,"endTime":1500.327,"body":"aviation fuels today is very low."},{"startTime":1501.207,"endTime":1505.9070000000002,"body":"I suspect also because people,"},{"startTime":1501.207,"endTime":1505.9070000000002,"body":"they like to make the right"},{"startTime":1505.9070000000002,"endTime":1507.347,"body":"sustainable choice very often."},{"startTime":1507.977,"endTime":1513.6870000000001,"body":"And so if there was more consumer"},{"startTime":1507.977,"endTime":1513.6870000000001,"body":"awareness of sustainable aviation fuels,"},{"startTime":1513.737,"endTime":1518.747,"body":"do you think that that would again put a"},{"startTime":1513.737,"endTime":1518.747,"body":"bit more pressure on the airline industry"},{"startTime":1518.747,"endTime":1521.42,"body":"to adopt more sustainable aviation fuels?"},{"startTime":1522.535,"endTime":1523.145,"body":"I think so."},{"startTime":1523.265,"endTime":1526.762,"body":"I mean, it's sort of hard to"},{"startTime":1523.265,"endTime":1526.762,"body":"quantify it, but in the end all of"},{"startTime":1526.762,"endTime":1530.0620000000001,"body":"these government incentives and and"},{"startTime":1526.762,"endTime":1530.0620000000001,"body":"government mandates of today, they"},{"startTime":1530.0620000000001,"endTime":1531.922,"body":"are a reflection of public sentiment."},{"startTime":1532.7720000000002,"endTime":1537.3200000000002,"body":"And so if, if the sentiment grows stronger"},{"startTime":1532.7720000000002,"endTime":1537.3200000000002,"body":"and, the vector of it is, is, pointed"},{"startTime":1537.3200000000002,"endTime":1542.065,"body":"in a particular direction, I'm sure that"},{"startTime":1537.3200000000002,"endTime":1542.065,"body":"both the government, governments are, you"},{"startTime":1542.065,"endTime":1544.355,"body":"know, the slowest actor usually out there."},{"startTime":1544.835,"endTime":1546.185,"body":"Businesses will react."},{"startTime":1546.305,"endTime":1546.515,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":1546.515,"endTime":1551.48,"body":"Like, quite recently I got a call from"},{"startTime":1546.515,"endTime":1551.48,"body":"a chemical manufacturer saying that"},{"startTime":1551.69,"endTime":1556.0900000000001,"body":"there are no incentives for making"},{"startTime":1551.69,"endTime":1556.0900000000001,"body":"sustainable chemicals whatsoever"},{"startTime":1556.15,"endTime":1557.3200000000002,"body":"anywhere in the world today."},{"startTime":1557.92,"endTime":1562.67,"body":"But, we have customers who"},{"startTime":1557.92,"endTime":1562.67,"body":"demand sustainable plastics."},{"startTime":1562.92,"endTime":1566.8200000000002,"body":"And who are prepared to pay a premium"},{"startTime":1562.92,"endTime":1566.8200000000002,"body":"quite regardless of any government"},{"startTime":1566.8200000000002,"endTime":1572.26,"body":"situation because their end users,"},{"startTime":1566.8200000000002,"endTime":1572.26,"body":"they really like buying products"},{"startTime":1572.26,"endTime":1576.05,"body":"that have the sustainability air."},{"startTime":1576.895,"endTime":1580.875,"body":"And the discussion started about whether"},{"startTime":1576.895,"endTime":1580.875,"body":"we can make these chemicals from renewable"},{"startTime":1580.875,"endTime":1582.4650000000001,"body":"sources at a particular price point."},{"startTime":1583.155,"endTime":1589.3220000000001,"body":"So, definitely educating the public making"},{"startTime":1583.155,"endTime":1589.3220000000001,"body":"people more aware of how their choices"},{"startTime":1589.3220000000001,"endTime":1594.182,"body":"influence the, the, the whole sort of CO2"},{"startTime":1589.3220000000001,"endTime":1594.182,"body":"or greenhouse gas balance on the planet"},{"startTime":1594.662,"endTime":1596.637,"body":"is definitely,  a worthy undertaking."},{"startTime":1598.0140000000001,"endTime":1602.5900000000001,"body":"Looking ahead, what excites you most"},{"startTime":1598.0140000000001,"endTime":1602.5900000000001,"body":"about the future of sustainable aviation"},{"startTime":1602.5900000000001,"endTime":1604.53,"body":"fuels over the next 5 to 10 years?"},{"startTime":1605.412,"endTime":1610.5320000000002,"body":"I think it's sort of this attitude of,"},{"startTime":1605.412,"endTime":1610.5320000000002,"body":"of back to basics, back to business."},{"startTime":1610.592,"endTime":1612.872,"body":"Again, like we've seen"},{"startTime":1610.592,"endTime":1612.872,"body":"with the electric cars."},{"startTime":1613.652,"endTime":1617.962,"body":"We are, I think, at the peak, or"},{"startTime":1613.652,"endTime":1617.962,"body":"maybe already over the peak of the"},{"startTime":1617.962,"endTime":1621.2920000000001,"body":"initial excitement of, wow, this"},{"startTime":1617.962,"endTime":1621.2920000000001,"body":"is a curious thing we can produce"},{"startTime":1621.2920000000001,"endTime":1622.852,"body":"without waiting for a million years."},{"startTime":1623.507,"endTime":1625.997,"body":"Now it's back to, okay,"},{"startTime":1623.507,"endTime":1625.997,"body":"who can make it cheaper?"},{"startTime":1625.997,"endTime":1628.217,"body":"Who can make a, a better quality product?"},{"startTime":1628.797,"endTime":1632.6870000000001,"body":"And I think this is a really"},{"startTime":1628.797,"endTime":1632.6870000000001,"body":"exciting time to, be in the industry."},{"startTime":1632.6870000000001,"endTime":1636.317,"body":"And, I think that our technology"},{"startTime":1632.6870000000001,"endTime":1636.317,"body":"can actually fit in nicely into that"},{"startTime":1636.317,"endTime":1640.607,"body":"trend of making a better product"},{"startTime":1636.317,"endTime":1640.607,"body":"cheaper, regardless of whether it's"},{"startTime":1640.607,"endTime":1643.1870000000001,"body":"sustainable or, or any other thing."},{"startTime":1643.1870000000001,"endTime":1644.537,"body":"It's just, you know, pure business."},{"startTime":1644.537,"endTime":1647.477,"body":"You know, people are gonna"},{"startTime":1644.537,"endTime":1647.477,"body":"select our product because it's"},{"startTime":1647.477,"endTime":1648.707,"body":"better, because it's cheaper."},{"startTime":1649.297,"endTime":1652.227,"body":"We're not quite yet at the"},{"startTime":1649.297,"endTime":1652.227,"body":"parity with the fossil."},{"startTime":1652.457,"endTime":1657.327,"body":"And it's unclear whether or when that"},{"startTime":1652.457,"endTime":1657.327,"body":"will happen, but we certainly need to"},{"startTime":1657.327,"endTime":1662.75,"body":"raise to the lower cost of production"},{"startTime":1657.327,"endTime":1662.75,"body":"of any energy source, including SAF."},{"startTime":1663.714,"endTime":1665.854,"body":"What's your own business model?"},{"startTime":1666.5140000000001,"endTime":1669.2640000000001,"body":"It's not selling SAF, right?"},{"startTime":1669.2740000000001,"endTime":1673.094,"body":"It's, is it selling licensing"},{"startTime":1669.2740000000001,"endTime":1673.094,"body":"the technology to people who"},{"startTime":1673.094,"endTime":1676.614,"body":"can use the technology to create"},{"startTime":1673.094,"endTime":1676.614,"body":"sustainable aviation fuel?"},{"startTime":1677.584,"endTime":1678.214,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1678.304,"endTime":1678.7540000000001,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1678.814,"endTime":1681.614,"body":"I mean, we are a licensing"},{"startTime":1678.814,"endTime":1681.614,"body":"company, a licenser."},{"startTime":1681.864,"endTime":1684.7740000000001,"body":"So we kind of leave the production"},{"startTime":1681.864,"endTime":1684.7740000000001,"body":"to people who really know how to"},{"startTime":1684.7740000000001,"endTime":1689.184,"body":"produce, to people who already have"},{"startTime":1684.7740000000001,"endTime":1689.184,"body":"the facilities, because one thing I"},{"startTime":1689.184,"endTime":1694.5140000000001,"body":"did not mention is flexiforming be"},{"startTime":1689.184,"endTime":1694.5140000000001,"body":"deployed in existing refinery facilities."},{"startTime":1695.1190000000001,"endTime":1699.395,"body":"And so obviously we would love to sell"},{"startTime":1695.1190000000001,"endTime":1699.395,"body":"the technology to people who already have"},{"startTime":1699.395,"endTime":1701.4650000000001,"body":"these facilities and don't need to invest."},{"startTime":1701.525,"endTime":1704.1950000000002,"body":"And also don't need to scrap"},{"startTime":1701.525,"endTime":1704.1950000000002,"body":"this because, you know, as they"},{"startTime":1704.1950000000002,"endTime":1707.7250000000001,"body":"decarbonise some of these facilities"},{"startTime":1704.1950000000002,"endTime":1707.7250000000001,"body":"become obsolete and not needed."},{"startTime":1708.4950000000001,"endTime":1709.9950000000001,"body":"And we do what we do best."},{"startTime":1709.9950000000001,"endTime":1714.315,"body":"We perfect the technology, we do"},{"startTime":1709.9950000000001,"endTime":1714.315,"body":"the science and we kind of, are"},{"startTime":1714.315,"endTime":1717.9650000000001,"body":"the translators of the science"},{"startTime":1714.315,"endTime":1717.9650000000001,"body":"into the industrial space."},{"startTime":1719.405,"endTime":1720.155,"body":"Okay, very good."},{"startTime":1720.9550000000002,"endTime":1722.395,"body":"A left field question for you."},{"startTime":1723.2050000000002,"endTime":1729.7450000000001,"body":"If you could have any person"},{"startTime":1723.2050000000002,"endTime":1729.7450000000001,"body":"or character or dead, real or"},{"startTime":1729.7450000000001,"endTime":1735.925,"body":"fictional as a spokesperson or a, an"},{"startTime":1729.7450000000001,"endTime":1735.925,"body":"evangelist for sustainable aviation"},{"startTime":1735.925,"endTime":1737.405,"body":"fuel, who would it be and why?"},{"startTime":1741.035,"endTime":1742.765,"body":"Oh my god this is interesting."},{"startTime":1743.9450000000002,"endTime":1748.2250000000001,"body":"I'm thinking Scrooge McDuck!"},{"startTime":1748.905,"endTime":1749.535,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":1749.635,"endTime":1750.135,"body":"Go for it."},{"startTime":1750.135,"endTime":1750.635,"body":"Tell me why."},{"startTime":1751.595,"endTime":1760.0410000000002,"body":"I mean, the guy is focused on,"},{"startTime":1751.595,"endTime":1760.0410000000002,"body":"on saving and, and for him,"},{"startTime":1760.101,"endTime":1762.271,"body":"hoarding, I guess, the resources."},{"startTime":1762.8410000000001,"endTime":1767.421,"body":"This is the kind of attitude we"},{"startTime":1762.8410000000001,"endTime":1767.421,"body":"need with regard to effectively"},{"startTime":1767.421,"endTime":1768.381,"body":"the health of the planet."},{"startTime":1768.711,"endTime":1768.981,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1769.651,"endTime":1773.101,"body":"And he does it, you know,"},{"startTime":1769.651,"endTime":1773.101,"body":"in in a funny, cynical way."},{"startTime":1774.211,"endTime":1777.481,"body":"So basically, you know, he has,"},{"startTime":1774.211,"endTime":1777.481,"body":"there's a compulsion to it."},{"startTime":1777.5410000000002,"endTime":1778.501,"body":"He has to do it."},{"startTime":1778.5610000000001,"endTime":1784.1660000000002,"body":"He absolutely has to do it and, you"},{"startTime":1778.5610000000001,"endTime":1784.1660000000002,"body":"know, he sort of uh, dives into a"},{"startTime":1784.1660000000002,"endTime":1786.806,"body":"spool of the golden coins, as I recall."},{"startTime":1788.846,"endTime":1793.576,"body":"So this is, this is kind of what"},{"startTime":1788.846,"endTime":1793.576,"body":"we need to happen to our planet."},{"startTime":1793.576,"endTime":1796.396,"body":"I mean, I, I live in California"},{"startTime":1793.576,"endTime":1796.396,"body":"and  what we need is, you know,"},{"startTime":1796.4560000000001,"endTime":1800.789,"body":"people compulsively enjoying the"},{"startTime":1796.4560000000001,"endTime":1800.789,"body":"nature that, you know, that they have"},{"startTime":1800.789,"endTime":1803.3990000000001,"body":"preserved and cared for and so on."},{"startTime":1804.059,"endTime":1808.799,"body":"And, this is kind of the attitude"},{"startTime":1804.059,"endTime":1808.799,"body":"we need with regard to all sorts of"},{"startTime":1808.8490000000002,"endTime":1811.1490000000001,"body":"decarbonisation solutions, including SAF."},{"startTime":1812.029,"endTime":1814.8490000000002,"body":"The degree of compulsion, you"},{"startTime":1812.029,"endTime":1814.8490000000002,"body":"know, we absolutely have to do it."},{"startTime":1814.8490000000002,"endTime":1815.8990000000001,"body":"This is not an option."},{"startTime":1815.8990000000001,"endTime":1817.549,"body":"This is not a political thing."},{"startTime":1817.549,"endTime":1819.299,"body":"You know, it's not a left or a right."},{"startTime":1819.779,"endTime":1825.566,"body":"It's a matter of, you know, we it kind"},{"startTime":1819.779,"endTime":1825.566,"body":"of effectively our generation has created"},{"startTime":1825.566,"endTime":1830.726,"body":"the situation that we are sadly passing"},{"startTime":1825.566,"endTime":1830.726,"body":"onto our children to solve mostly right?"},{"startTime":1830.7540000000001,"endTime":1833.679,"body":"The, overhang of the greenhouse gases."},{"startTime":1834.339,"endTime":1837.729,"body":"And we do need a degree of"},{"startTime":1834.339,"endTime":1837.729,"body":"compulsion to have it solved."},{"startTime":1838.8690000000001,"endTime":1839.229,"body":"So,"},{"startTime":1840.144,"endTime":1840.574,"body":"Excellent."},{"startTime":1842.214,"endTime":1842.654,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":1843.0140000000001,"endTime":1843.384,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":1844.814,"endTime":1846.574,"body":"We're coming towards"},{"startTime":1844.814,"endTime":1846.574,"body":"the end of the podcast."},{"startTime":1846.604,"endTime":1850.924,"body":"Now, Alexei, is there any question"},{"startTime":1846.604,"endTime":1850.924,"body":"I did not ask that you wish I did,"},{"startTime":1850.924,"endTime":1853.944,"body":"or any aspect of this we haven't"},{"startTime":1850.924,"endTime":1853.944,"body":"touched on that you think it's"},{"startTime":1853.944,"endTime":1855.684,"body":"important for people to be aware of?"},{"startTime":1858.074,"endTime":1860.039,"body":"I think you've done an excellent job Tom."},{"startTime":1860.039,"endTime":1862.6390000000001,"body":"I think you've asked everything,"},{"startTime":1860.039,"endTime":1862.6390000000001,"body":"you know, one could have asked for."},{"startTime":1864.249,"endTime":1864.8790000000001,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":1864.909,"endTime":1865.209,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":1865.209,"endTime":1865.6390000000001,"body":"Superb."},{"startTime":1866.219,"endTime":1870.759,"body":"In that case, Alexei, if people would like"},{"startTime":1866.219,"endTime":1870.759,"body":"to know more about yourself or any of the"},{"startTime":1870.789,"endTime":1873.6490000000001,"body":"things we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"startTime":1870.789,"endTime":1873.6490000000001,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"startTime":1874.939,"endTime":1881.159,"body":"Best place to go would be our website,"},{"startTime":1874.939,"endTime":1881.159,"body":"which is Unifuel dot Tech unifuel."},{"startTime":1881.3990000000001,"endTime":1881.8490000000002,"body":"tech."},{"startTime":1882.1190000000001,"endTime":1882.904,"body":"And there you have it."},{"startTime":1883.969,"endTime":1884.339,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1884.339,"endTime":1884.799,"body":"Superb."},{"startTime":1885.1090000000002,"endTime":1885.3890000000001,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":1885.689,"endTime":1886.819,"body":"Alexei, that's been fascinating."},{"startTime":1886.8490000000002,"endTime":1888.509,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"startTime":1886.8490000000002,"endTime":1888.509,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"startTime":1889.454,"endTime":1890.414,"body":"Thank you so much, Tom."},{"startTime":1891.0140000000001,"endTime":1891.284,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":1892.027,"endTime":1893.8970000000002,"body":"Okay, we've come to the end of the show."},{"startTime":1894.617,"endTime":1895.727,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"startTime":1896.587,"endTime":1900.737,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"startTime":1896.587,"endTime":1900.737,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"startTime":1900.747,"endTime":1904.6570000000002,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"startTime":1904.9070000000002,"endTime":1908.387,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"startTime":1908.957,"endTime":1912.6970000000001,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"startTime":1908.957,"endTime":1912.6970000000001,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"startTime":1912.717,"endTime":1917.1970000000001,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"startTime":1912.717,"endTime":1917.1970000000001,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"startTime":1917.827,"endTime":1920.787,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"startTime":1917.827,"endTime":1920.787,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"startTime":1920.987,"endTime":1923.517,"body":"It really does help new"},{"startTime":1920.987,"endTime":1923.517,"body":"people to find the show."},{"startTime":1924.607,"endTime":1925.057,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":1925.727,"endTime":1926.6470000000002,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}