{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.676,"endTime":4.906,"body":"I wanna create this movement."},{"startTime":4.906,"endTime":6.226,"body":"I wanna bring people together."},{"startTime":6.226,"endTime":10.636,"body":"I want to leverage all of the knowledge"},{"startTime":6.226,"endTime":10.636,"body":"that's out there in so many different"},{"startTime":10.636,"endTime":14.026,"body":"domains and learn from other people, and"},{"startTime":10.636,"endTime":14.026,"body":"have other people learn from each other,"},{"startTime":14.026,"endTime":17.506,"body":"because that's really what we need to"},{"startTime":14.026,"endTime":17.506,"body":"get the solutions at the speed and the"},{"startTime":17.506,"endTime":22.066,"body":"scale required in order to tackle such"},{"startTime":17.506,"endTime":22.066,"body":"a complex problem like climate change."},{"startTime":22.613,"endTime":26.213,"body":"Good morning, good afternoon, or good"},{"startTime":22.613,"endTime":26.213,"body":"evening, wherever you are in the world."},{"startTime":26.693,"endTime":30.983,"body":"Welcome to episode 222 of the"},{"startTime":26.693,"endTime":30.983,"body":"Climate Confident Podcast, the go-to"},{"startTime":30.983,"endTime":34.673,"body":"show for best practices in climate"},{"startTime":30.983,"endTime":34.673,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"startTime":35.428,"endTime":38.578,"body":"I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and if"},{"startTime":35.428,"endTime":38.578,"body":"you haven't already, be sure to follow"},{"startTime":38.578,"endTime":42.568,"body":"this podcast in your podcast app of"},{"startTime":38.578,"endTime":42.568,"body":"choice so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":43.498,"endTime":46.558,"body":"Before we get going, a huge thank"},{"startTime":43.498,"endTime":46.558,"body":"you to this podcast's, incredible"},{"startTime":46.558,"endTime":52.348,"body":"supporters, Jerry Sweeney, Andreas"},{"startTime":46.558,"endTime":52.348,"body":"Werner, Steven Carroll, and Roger Arnold."},{"startTime":53.098,"endTime":56.938,"body":"Folks, your backing helps me keep"},{"startTime":53.098,"endTime":56.938,"body":"this podcast going and I truly"},{"startTime":56.938,"endTime":58.738,"body":"appreciate each and every one of you."},{"startTime":59.318,"endTime":62.168,"body":"If you'd like to join this community,"},{"startTime":59.318,"endTime":62.168,"body":"you can support the show for as little"},{"startTime":62.168,"endTime":65.858,"body":"as three euros or dollars a month, which"},{"startTime":62.168,"endTime":65.858,"body":"is less than the cost of a cup of coffee."},{"startTime":66.308,"endTime":69.008,"body":"Just click the support link in the"},{"startTime":66.308,"endTime":69.008,"body":"show notes of this or any episode"},{"startTime":69.158,"endTime":72.878,"body":"or visit tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"startTime":73.928,"endTime":78.875,"body":"Now you know that sinking feeling when a"},{"startTime":73.928,"endTime":78.875,"body":"company drops a shiny net zero pledge and"},{"startTime":78.875,"endTime":81.485,"body":"you just know it's greenwashed nonsense."},{"startTime":82.505,"endTime":85.415,"body":"Today's guest built an"},{"startTime":82.505,"endTime":85.415,"body":"AI that calls BS on that."},{"startTime":86.45,"endTime":93.02,"body":"While ChatGPT is out there hallucinating"},{"startTime":86.45,"endTime":93.02,"body":"climate facts, she built ChatNetZero and"},{"startTime":93.09,"endTime":99.976,"body":"ChatNDC AI tools, trained specifically"},{"startTime":93.09,"endTime":99.976,"body":"to fact check climate pledges, expose"},{"startTime":100.066,"endTime":104.356,"body":"vague targets and make sense of the"},{"startTime":100.066,"endTime":104.356,"body":"mess that is national climate plans."},{"startTime":104.956,"endTime":107.566,"body":"She's not waiting around for"},{"startTime":104.956,"endTime":107.566,"body":"governments or big tech to get it right."},{"startTime":107.746,"endTime":110.776,"body":"She's making the tools we actually"},{"startTime":107.746,"endTime":110.776,"body":"need to separate the serious"},{"startTime":110.776,"endTime":113.296,"body":"actors from the smoke and mirrors."},{"startTime":114.196,"endTime":116.066,"body":"Her name's Professor Angel Hsu."},{"startTime":116.236,"endTime":119.566,"body":"She runs the Data Driven EnviroLab"},{"startTime":116.236,"endTime":119.566,"body":"and she's here to explain why"},{"startTime":119.566,"endTime":124.816,"body":"climate needs better data,"},{"startTime":119.566,"endTime":124.816,"body":"smarter ai, and fewer buzzwords."},{"startTime":125.44,"endTime":129.406,"body":"But before we get into that, in the coming"},{"startTime":125.44,"endTime":129.406,"body":"weeks, I'll be speaking with Sangita"},{"startTime":129.406,"endTime":134.926,"body":"Waldron, who's the author of What Will"},{"startTime":129.406,"endTime":134.926,"body":"Your Legacy Be?, Ciaran Flanagan, Global"},{"startTime":134.926,"endTime":137.566,"body":"Head of Siemens Data Center Solutions."},{"startTime":138.106,"endTime":142.456,"body":"Stuart Thompson, President of ABB"},{"startTime":138.106,"endTime":142.456,"body":"Electrification Services and Frank"},{"startTime":142.456,"endTime":146.406,"body":"Maguire, VP Insight, strategy, and"},{"startTime":142.456,"endTime":146.406,"body":"Sustainability for Sharethrough."},{"startTime":146.91,"endTime":151.829,"body":"Now back to today's episode, and as I"},{"startTime":146.91,"endTime":151.829,"body":"said, my special guest today is Angel."},{"startTime":152.37,"endTime":154.41,"body":"Angel, or welcome to the podcast."},{"startTime":154.41,"endTime":155.85,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"startTime":156.51,"endTime":157.43,"body":"Thank you so much, Tom."},{"startTime":157.43,"endTime":158.99,"body":"It's really a pleasure to be here."},{"startTime":159.44,"endTime":162.59,"body":"I'm Angel Hsu and I'm an"},{"startTime":159.44,"endTime":162.59,"body":"associate professor of Public"},{"startTime":162.59,"endTime":166.92,"body":"Policy and Environment, Energy"},{"startTime":162.59,"endTime":166.92,"body":"and Ecology at the University of"},{"startTime":166.92,"endTime":168.42,"body":"North Carolina at Chapel Hill."},{"startTime":168.9,"endTime":172.72,"body":"And I also founded and direct a research"},{"startTime":168.9,"endTime":172.72,"body":"group called The Data-Driven EnviroLab."},{"startTime":173.04,"endTime":176.1,"body":"And our mission is to innovate"},{"startTime":173.04,"endTime":176.1,"body":"quantitative approaches to"},{"startTime":176.1,"endTime":179.4,"body":"evaluating the world's most pressing"},{"startTime":176.1,"endTime":179.4,"body":"environmental challenges from"},{"startTime":179.4,"endTime":183.39,"body":"climate change, to air quality,"},{"startTime":179.4,"endTime":183.39,"body":"urbanization, and other related issues."},{"startTime":185.005,"endTime":185.295,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":186.14,"endTime":192.88,"body":"And why, as in, what made you"},{"startTime":186.14,"endTime":192.88,"body":"decide to go down this path?"},{"startTime":192.94,"endTime":196.18,"body":"What was it that kind of clicked in"},{"startTime":192.94,"endTime":196.18,"body":"your head one day and said, I think"},{"startTime":196.18,"endTime":199.19,"body":"I want to get into dot, dot, dot?"},{"startTime":199.19,"endTime":202.495,"body":"Well, if only it was that easy that"},{"startTime":199.19,"endTime":202.495,"body":"these ideas just appeared to me."},{"startTime":202.765,"endTime":205.37,"body":"But actually when I was"},{"startTime":202.765,"endTime":205.37,"body":"working on my dissertation in"},{"startTime":205.37,"endTime":207.79,"body":"the late early two thousands."},{"startTime":207.82,"endTime":209.95,"body":"So I started my PhD in 2008."},{"startTime":210.55,"endTime":214.24,"body":"I recognised that in reading all"},{"startTime":210.55,"endTime":214.24,"body":"of the literature on environmental"},{"startTime":214.24,"endTime":217.75,"body":"management and strategy and policy,"},{"startTime":214.24,"endTime":217.75,"body":"that there was this disconnect."},{"startTime":217.75,"endTime":222.04,"body":"And so, even though the business community"},{"startTime":217.75,"endTime":222.04,"body":"and the private sector had for many"},{"startTime":222.04,"endTime":226.0,"body":"decades recognised the value of data and"},{"startTime":222.04,"endTime":226.0,"body":"evidence to guide business decisions."},{"startTime":226.0,"endTime":230.2,"body":"So I think we've all heard of the word"},{"startTime":226.0,"endTime":230.2,"body":"KPIs or key performance indicators,"},{"startTime":230.26,"endTime":233.62,"body":"and the idea that you have to get"},{"startTime":230.26,"endTime":233.62,"body":"returns on your investments or ROIs."},{"startTime":234.37,"endTime":238.39,"body":"That, that same kind of logic of we"},{"startTime":234.37,"endTime":238.39,"body":"need to actually collect data and track"},{"startTime":238.39,"endTime":242.5,"body":"progress on these key efforts that we're"},{"startTime":238.39,"endTime":242.5,"body":"taking to address environmental issues."},{"startTime":242.74,"endTime":246.37,"body":"That same logic and thinking had not"},{"startTime":242.74,"endTime":246.37,"body":"translated into the environmental"},{"startTime":246.37,"endTime":249.61,"body":"domain, and so for a lot of really key"},{"startTime":246.37,"endTime":249.61,"body":"issues, you think about some of the"},{"startTime":249.61,"endTime":252.16,"body":"most pressing environmental concerns."},{"startTime":252.415,"endTime":256.795,"body":"Poor air quality, lack of water"},{"startTime":252.415,"endTime":256.795,"body":"resources, loss of tree cover and"},{"startTime":256.795,"endTime":260.605,"body":"forest, and loss of biodiversity"},{"startTime":256.795,"endTime":260.605,"body":"in species and rising temperatures."},{"startTime":260.845,"endTime":264.655,"body":"We still didn't have a lot of data"},{"startTime":260.845,"endTime":264.655,"body":"to measure what is the extent of that"},{"startTime":264.655,"endTime":269.05,"body":"problem, and then importantly, if we're"},{"startTime":264.655,"endTime":269.05,"body":"implementing efforts to then tackle them."},{"startTime":269.2,"endTime":271.81,"body":"How are they actually performing"},{"startTime":269.2,"endTime":271.81,"body":"and how do we connect the two?"},{"startTime":271.99,"endTime":276.74,"body":"And so that's really where I started"},{"startTime":271.99,"endTime":276.74,"body":"in my PhD. And I was lucky enough to"},{"startTime":276.74,"endTime":278.33,"body":"actually spend some time in China."},{"startTime":278.33,"endTime":281.75,"body":"So I was actually living in Beijing"},{"startTime":278.33,"endTime":281.75,"body":"right before the Olympics, and I saw"},{"startTime":281.75,"endTime":286.22,"body":"how much of a issue air pollution was,"},{"startTime":281.75,"endTime":286.22,"body":"and water scarcity and climate change"},{"startTime":286.22,"endTime":287.57,"body":"was about to be a really big issue."},{"startTime":287.57,"endTime":292.067,"body":"They had just launched their first"},{"startTime":287.57,"endTime":292.067,"body":"national climate strategy in 2007 and"},{"startTime":292.067,"endTime":296.562,"body":"recognising that at that time they were"},{"startTime":292.067,"endTime":296.562,"body":"also really interested in having data"},{"startTime":296.562,"endTime":300.582,"body":"and tools to help them better manage"},{"startTime":296.562,"endTime":300.582,"body":"their growing climate problem and their"},{"startTime":300.582,"endTime":302.382,"body":"growing air pollution issues as well."},{"startTime":302.382,"endTime":304.932,"body":"And so I was working for an"},{"startTime":302.382,"endTime":304.932,"body":"environmental think tank called"},{"startTime":304.932,"endTime":308.412,"body":"the World Resources Institute and"},{"startTime":304.932,"endTime":308.412,"body":"specifically on a project called the"},{"startTime":308.412,"endTime":310.152,"body":"Greenhouse Gas Protocol Initiative."},{"startTime":310.422,"endTime":314.052,"body":"And so I was working with the Chinese"},{"startTime":310.422,"endTime":314.052,"body":"government and Chinese businesses to"},{"startTime":314.052,"endTime":318.162,"body":"help them utilise these tools to get"},{"startTime":314.052,"endTime":318.162,"body":"just better baseline data because they"},{"startTime":318.162,"endTime":322.872,"body":"were trying to manage a growing energy"},{"startTime":318.162,"endTime":322.872,"body":"consumption problem, energy insecurity."},{"startTime":323.052,"endTime":327.342,"body":"And then also recognising that the source"},{"startTime":323.052,"endTime":327.342,"body":"of that energy, which was fossil fuels,"},{"startTime":327.342,"endTime":331.332,"body":"predominantly in the form of coal, was"},{"startTime":327.342,"endTime":331.332,"body":"generating air pollution and also causing"},{"startTime":331.332,"endTime":333.102,"body":"their greenhouse gas emissions to rise."},{"startTime":333.342,"endTime":336.672,"body":"So it was kind of the confluence of all"},{"startTime":333.342,"endTime":336.672,"body":"these different issues where the Chinese"},{"startTime":336.672,"endTime":340.452,"body":"were thinking at the time, we need to"},{"startTime":336.672,"endTime":340.452,"body":"have better data and tool to understand"},{"startTime":340.632,"endTime":344.082,"body":"how these various issues relate to"},{"startTime":340.632,"endTime":344.082,"body":"each other and to guide our policies"},{"startTime":344.262,"endTime":347.202,"body":"to determine what we should do and what"},{"startTime":344.262,"endTime":347.202,"body":"kinds of investments we should make."},{"startTime":347.322,"endTime":350.262,"body":"And so after that"},{"startTime":347.322,"endTime":350.262,"body":"experience, I left China."},{"startTime":350.537,"endTime":355.427,"body":"And I started my PhD recognising"},{"startTime":350.537,"endTime":355.427,"body":"that we need to actually think about"},{"startTime":355.427,"endTime":359.627,"body":"like how do we actually quantify and"},{"startTime":355.427,"endTime":359.627,"body":"better develop database solutions"},{"startTime":359.627,"endTime":361.337,"body":"to some of these pressing issues."},{"startTime":361.337,"endTime":365.297,"body":"So then I was studying data"},{"startTime":361.337,"endTime":365.297,"body":"science and statistics, geography,"},{"startTime":365.297,"endTime":369.137,"body":"looking at the role of remote"},{"startTime":365.297,"endTime":369.137,"body":"sensing and satellite information"},{"startTime":369.137,"endTime":370.577,"body":"to help fill in some data gaps."},{"startTime":370.667,"endTime":374.837,"body":"And then more importantly, to understand"},{"startTime":370.667,"endTime":374.837,"body":"how stakeholders and companies, and"},{"startTime":374.837,"endTime":379.837,"body":"also policy makers could then utilise"},{"startTime":374.837,"endTime":379.837,"body":"the information and utilise the data to"},{"startTime":379.837,"endTime":383.017,"body":"make better informed decisions, because"},{"startTime":379.837,"endTime":383.017,"body":"it's one thing to have a lot of data,"},{"startTime":383.017,"endTime":386.137,"body":"but then how do you actually translate"},{"startTime":383.017,"endTime":386.137,"body":"that into the decision making context?"},{"startTime":386.377,"endTime":390.637,"body":"So that's how I started to think"},{"startTime":386.377,"endTime":390.637,"body":"about what this revolution could be"},{"startTime":390.637,"endTime":395.017,"body":"and what it might mean for the world"},{"startTime":390.637,"endTime":395.017,"body":"to be able to have better access and"},{"startTime":395.017,"endTime":398.257,"body":"better information when it comes to"},{"startTime":395.017,"endTime":398.257,"body":"key indicators for the environment."},{"startTime":399.395,"endTime":402.275,"body":"And talk to me about the"},{"startTime":399.395,"endTime":402.275,"body":"data driven EnviroLab."},{"startTime":402.755,"endTime":403.775,"body":"How did that come about?"},{"startTime":403.775,"endTime":406.925,"body":"And what is its aims and and functions?"},{"startTime":407.695,"endTime":412.195,"body":"Yeah, so as I was finishing up my PhD,"},{"startTime":407.695,"endTime":412.195,"body":"and it was really, as I mentioned, trying"},{"startTime":412.195,"endTime":416.515,"body":"to merge together and leverage these"},{"startTime":412.195,"endTime":416.515,"body":"different disciplines, data science and"},{"startTime":416.515,"endTime":421.075,"body":"then geography and policy together in"},{"startTime":416.515,"endTime":421.075,"body":"order to really solve climate change."},{"startTime":421.075,"endTime":425.47,"body":"I mean, that was like really my raison"},{"startTime":421.075,"endTime":425.47,"body":"d'etre of wanting to, to work on"},{"startTime":425.47,"endTime":429.16,"body":"environment and and climate and to get a"},{"startTime":425.47,"endTime":429.16,"body":"PhD and to get this additional training"},{"startTime":429.43,"endTime":432.97,"body":"was really to try to do everything"},{"startTime":429.43,"endTime":432.97,"body":"that I can to tackle climate change."},{"startTime":433.39,"endTime":435.73,"body":"Acknowledging the fact that"},{"startTime":433.39,"endTime":435.73,"body":"not a single discipline can"},{"startTime":435.73,"endTime":437.11,"body":"tackle the climate issue alone."},{"startTime":437.11,"endTime":440.89,"body":"You can't just have earth scientists"},{"startTime":437.11,"endTime":440.89,"body":"or you can't just have lawyers"},{"startTime":440.89,"endTime":443.11,"body":"or social scientists in the room."},{"startTime":443.11,"endTime":444.52,"body":"Economists or political scientists."},{"startTime":444.725,"endTime":447.485,"body":"You really need to have"},{"startTime":444.725,"endTime":447.485,"body":"everybody working together."},{"startTime":447.785,"endTime":452.435,"body":"And one of my strengths that I realised"},{"startTime":447.785,"endTime":452.435,"body":"in doing my PhD was that I'm a connector."},{"startTime":452.795,"endTime":458.585,"body":"So I really, I, I like to learn from"},{"startTime":452.795,"endTime":458.585,"body":"different people and I, I feel like"},{"startTime":458.585,"endTime":462.515,"body":"in order to solve some of these really"},{"startTime":458.585,"endTime":462.515,"body":"pressing and urgent environmental and"},{"startTime":462.515,"endTime":466.835,"body":"climate issues, we have to have a sense"},{"startTime":462.515,"endTime":466.835,"body":"of humility and recognising, again, that"},{"startTime":466.835,"endTime":471.185,"body":"not one discipline, not one perspective,"},{"startTime":466.835,"endTime":471.185,"body":"not one person can solve the issue alone."},{"startTime":471.515,"endTime":475.595,"body":"So that's when I started to go to my"},{"startTime":471.515,"endTime":475.595,"body":"friends and colleagues who were trained in"},{"startTime":475.595,"endTime":479.795,"body":"different disciplines, or maybe they knew"},{"startTime":475.595,"endTime":479.795,"body":"about different domains like fisheries"},{"startTime":479.795,"endTime":485.465,"body":"or forests or air quality, and I really"},{"startTime":479.795,"endTime":485.465,"body":"took a lot of pleasure in learning from"},{"startTime":485.465,"endTime":490.145,"body":"them and being able to bring them into the"},{"startTime":485.465,"endTime":490.145,"body":"fold and to think about interdisciplinary"},{"startTime":490.145,"endTime":491.825,"body":"solutions with data at the core."},{"startTime":492.065,"endTime":496.535,"body":"So one of the first projects that I"},{"startTime":492.065,"endTime":496.535,"body":"started to work on as I was transitioning"},{"startTime":496.535,"endTime":501.285,"body":"from my PhD into my research into"},{"startTime":496.535,"endTime":501.285,"body":"my academic faculty position was the"},{"startTime":501.285,"endTime":506.315,"body":"Environmental Performance Index, and"},{"startTime":501.285,"endTime":506.315,"body":"that is a biannual index that evaluates"},{"startTime":506.585,"endTime":510.815,"body":"180 countries around the world on"},{"startTime":506.585,"endTime":510.815,"body":"20 key environmental performance"},{"startTime":510.815,"endTime":515.105,"body":"indicators from environmental health,"},{"startTime":510.815,"endTime":515.105,"body":"to the health of fisheries, to the role"},{"startTime":515.105,"endTime":518.555,"body":"of an impact of agricultural systems"},{"startTime":515.105,"endTime":518.555,"body":"on environmental sustainability."},{"startTime":518.765,"endTime":521.405,"body":"And that's really where I"},{"startTime":518.765,"endTime":521.405,"body":"started to get the idea that."},{"startTime":521.925,"endTime":527.295,"body":"Well, if I can try to bring together"},{"startTime":521.925,"endTime":527.295,"body":"people under this brand or this idea that"},{"startTime":527.295,"endTime":531.045,"body":"we need to make environmental decision"},{"startTime":527.295,"endTime":531.045,"body":"making more data based, more evidence"},{"startTime":531.045,"endTime":537.045,"body":"driven, then that can really start to,"},{"startTime":531.045,"endTime":537.045,"body":"to draw a movement and also help policy"},{"startTime":537.045,"endTime":540.735,"body":"makers and, and decision makers and"},{"startTime":537.045,"endTime":540.735,"body":"businesses realise that they should"},{"startTime":540.735,"endTime":545.19,"body":"be leveraging all of these advances"},{"startTime":540.735,"endTime":545.19,"body":"in data in order to better inform what"},{"startTime":545.19,"endTime":546.9,"body":"they're doing in their own practices."},{"startTime":546.9,"endTime":550.48,"body":"And so, that was really how the"},{"startTime":546.9,"endTime":550.48,"body":"Data-driven EnviroLab came about."},{"startTime":550.48,"endTime":553.75,"body":"And, and the fact that, like my"},{"startTime":550.48,"endTime":553.75,"body":"last name, which is Hsu it, it's"},{"startTime":553.75,"endTime":554.86,"body":"like, sounds a little funny."},{"startTime":554.86,"endTime":557.77,"body":"And growing up here in the American"},{"startTime":554.86,"endTime":557.77,"body":"South, a lot of people didn't know how"},{"startTime":557.77,"endTime":560.06,"body":"to pronounce it because it's spelled HSU."},{"startTime":560.33,"endTime":563.34,"body":"So I got a lot of, oh,"},{"startTime":560.33,"endTime":563.34,"body":"is that Miss Hezoo, Zhou?"},{"startTime":563.36,"endTime":566.72,"body":"You know, like a lot you could you"},{"startTime":563.36,"endTime":566.72,"body":"think of, you name it, it's probably"},{"startTime":566.93,"endTime":568.61,"body":"how people mispronounce my last name."},{"startTime":568.61,"endTime":570.35,"body":"And so I thought, you"},{"startTime":568.61,"endTime":570.35,"body":"know what, I actually."},{"startTime":570.65,"endTime":571.88,"body":"I wanna create this movement."},{"startTime":571.88,"endTime":573.2,"body":"I wanna bring people together."},{"startTime":573.2,"endTime":577.61,"body":"I want to leverage all of the knowledge"},{"startTime":573.2,"endTime":577.61,"body":"that's out there in so many different"},{"startTime":577.61,"endTime":581.0,"body":"domains and learn from other people, and"},{"startTime":577.61,"endTime":581.0,"body":"have other people learn from each other,"},{"startTime":581.0,"endTime":584.48,"body":"because that's really what we need to"},{"startTime":581.0,"endTime":584.48,"body":"get the solutions at the speed and the"},{"startTime":584.48,"endTime":589.04,"body":"scale required in order to tackle such"},{"startTime":584.48,"endTime":589.04,"body":"a complex problem like climate change."},{"startTime":590.64,"endTime":590.93,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":590.99,"endTime":591.21,"body":"And."},{"startTime":592.67,"endTime":598.21,"body":"You're using AI, which is one of"},{"startTime":592.67,"endTime":598.21,"body":"the the big things that you've Yeah."},{"startTime":625.6550000000001,"endTime":629.8800000000001,"body":"You've, you've, you've, I mean,"},{"startTime":625.6550000000001,"endTime":629.8800000000001,"body":"AI is no good without data"},{"startTime":630.5250000000001,"endTime":630.9150000000001,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":631.98,"endTime":632.25,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":632.3100000000001,"endTime":636.1500000000001,"body":"You're, you've got the Data Driven"},{"startTime":632.3100000000001,"endTime":636.1500000000001,"body":"EnviroLab, so it's kind of a natural"},{"startTime":636.1500000000001,"endTime":639.2700000000001,"body":"progression right from there to, to AI."},{"startTime":639.2700000000001,"endTime":642.36,"body":"So what is it that you're doing with AI?"},{"startTime":642.72,"endTime":643.83,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":643.83,"endTime":647.6350000000001,"body":"I mean it's really interesting because"},{"startTime":643.83,"endTime":647.6350000000001,"body":"in my data science class last week I"},{"startTime":647.6350000000001,"endTime":652.195,"body":"started to introduce these policies,"},{"startTime":647.6350000000001,"endTime":652.195,"body":"master students to machine learning."},{"startTime":652.495,"endTime":655.5250000000001,"body":"And I told 'em, I said, it's really"},{"startTime":652.495,"endTime":655.5250000000001,"body":"funny because I'm gonna be teaching"},{"startTime":655.5250000000001,"endTime":658.615,"body":"you some very basic techniques,"},{"startTime":655.5250000000001,"endTime":658.615,"body":"some unsupervised machine learning"},{"startTime":658.615,"endTime":663.0050000000001,"body":"techniques, which basically 10 years"},{"startTime":658.615,"endTime":663.0050000000001,"body":"ago were just called non-linear,"},{"startTime":663.0050000000001,"endTime":664.835,"body":"multi, variate regression techniques."},{"startTime":664.985,"endTime":668.5300000000001,"body":"And so it's really funny to kind"},{"startTime":664.985,"endTime":668.5300000000001,"body":"of see these trends kind of take"},{"startTime":668.5300000000001,"endTime":672.7900000000001,"body":"hold and to latch onto methods that"},{"startTime":668.5300000000001,"endTime":672.7900000000001,"body":"frankly have been around for decades."},{"startTime":673.0300000000001,"endTime":677.4100000000001,"body":"So AI, machine learning, not anything"},{"startTime":673.0300000000001,"endTime":677.4100000000001,"body":"new, but we've kind of rebranded them."},{"startTime":677.4100000000001,"endTime":681.62,"body":"And I think now what's really exciting"},{"startTime":677.4100000000001,"endTime":681.62,"body":"is that because it's so pervasive in"},{"startTime":681.6400000000001,"endTime":685.48,"body":"every walk of life and in society, that"},{"startTime":681.6400000000001,"endTime":685.48,"body":"now we actually have a face to them."},{"startTime":685.8100000000001,"endTime":688.6300000000001,"body":"And so it is exactly as you said,"},{"startTime":685.8100000000001,"endTime":688.6300000000001,"body":"it was a natural progression"},{"startTime":688.6300000000001,"endTime":690.2800000000001,"body":"where I was really thinking about."},{"startTime":690.5400000000001,"endTime":690.9300000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":690.9300000000001,"endTime":695.34,"body":"We have data out there and some of"},{"startTime":690.9300000000001,"endTime":695.34,"body":"it's useful, some of it's not, and"},{"startTime":695.34,"endTime":698.4300000000001,"body":"some of it needs probably some type"},{"startTime":695.34,"endTime":698.4300000000001,"body":"of transformation, some type of"},{"startTime":698.4300000000001,"endTime":702.5400000000001,"body":"normalisation, some type of like I"},{"startTime":698.4300000000001,"endTime":702.5400000000001,"body":"guess pivoting towards a particular"},{"startTime":702.5400000000001,"endTime":706.3800000000001,"body":"goal in order for people to actually"},{"startTime":702.5400000000001,"endTime":706.3800000000001,"body":"make use of it and to take action"},{"startTime":706.3800000000001,"endTime":707.73,"body":"on that kind of information."},{"startTime":708.1550000000001,"endTime":711.8950000000001,"body":"And then I'm somebody that doesn't shy"},{"startTime":708.1550000000001,"endTime":711.8950000000001,"body":"away from new things, and I think that"},{"startTime":711.8950000000001,"endTime":716.125,"body":"that's like probably pretty unusual for"},{"startTime":711.8950000000001,"endTime":716.125,"body":"a lot of academics who they were trained"},{"startTime":716.125,"endTime":719.1850000000001,"body":"in one thing, they're an expert in one"},{"startTime":716.125,"endTime":719.1850000000001,"body":"thing and they kind of keep chipping away"},{"startTime":719.1850000000001,"endTime":721.5250000000001,"body":"at the same problem as they go along."},{"startTime":721.855,"endTime":725.485,"body":"But I think part of the strengths"},{"startTime":721.855,"endTime":725.485,"body":"of the Data-driven EnviroLab"},{"startTime":725.485,"endTime":728.5350000000001,"body":"is that we're not afraid of"},{"startTime":725.485,"endTime":728.5350000000001,"body":"embracing some of these new trends."},{"startTime":728.5350000000001,"endTime":733.365,"body":"And I think in order to be relevant and to"},{"startTime":728.5350000000001,"endTime":733.365,"body":"be able to just stay relevant, you have to"},{"startTime":733.6650000000001,"endTime":737.865,"body":"be open to all of these new technologies"},{"startTime":733.6650000000001,"endTime":737.865,"body":"and these innovations that come along."},{"startTime":738.1650000000001,"endTime":741.8850000000001,"body":"So, at the beginning of my career, it"},{"startTime":738.1650000000001,"endTime":741.8850000000001,"body":"was really thinking about like third wave"},{"startTime":741.8850000000001,"endTime":743.715,"body":"or like even fourth wave forms of data."},{"startTime":743.985,"endTime":748.6650000000001,"body":"How do we engage citizens who all have"},{"startTime":743.985,"endTime":748.6650000000001,"body":"cell phones and who can have sensors"},{"startTime":748.6650000000001,"endTime":752.0350000000001,"body":"and their own ways of collecting"},{"startTime":748.6650000000001,"endTime":752.0350000000001,"body":"information, help to fill data gaps?"},{"startTime":752.335,"endTime":754.7950000000001,"body":"And then thinking about like"},{"startTime":752.335,"endTime":754.7950000000001,"body":"satellite remote sensing, which has"},{"startTime":754.7950000000001,"endTime":759.325,"body":"been around since the seventies,"},{"startTime":754.7950000000001,"endTime":759.325,"body":"but not necessarily in a policy and"},{"startTime":759.475,"endTime":761.2750000000001,"body":"business decision making context."},{"startTime":761.2750000000001,"endTime":764.9350000000001,"body":"So how can we leverage all of this"},{"startTime":761.2750000000001,"endTime":764.9350000000001,"body":"remote sensing satellite data that"},{"startTime":764.9350000000001,"endTime":769.075,"body":"is by and large, free and publicly"},{"startTime":764.9350000000001,"endTime":769.075,"body":"available into these kinds of contexts."},{"startTime":769.375,"endTime":774.235,"body":"And then of course, machine learning helps"},{"startTime":769.375,"endTime":774.235,"body":"to recognise these patterns when you have"},{"startTime":774.235,"endTime":776.095,"body":"like all of these different data sets."},{"startTime":776.21,"endTime":781.7,"body":"From sensor data or citizen volunteered"},{"startTime":776.21,"endTime":781.7,"body":"information, you've got top-down data"},{"startTime":781.7,"endTime":784.25,"body":"from satellites and other sources."},{"startTime":784.49,"endTime":788.33,"body":"How can we actually make sense of all"},{"startTime":784.49,"endTime":788.33,"body":"these kinds of data and delve a more"},{"startTime":788.33,"endTime":792.2,"body":"complete picture than the one that we may"},{"startTime":788.33,"endTime":792.2,"body":"have had before, compared to like very"},{"startTime":792.2,"endTime":796.25,"body":"traditional statistical data techniques"},{"startTime":792.2,"endTime":796.25,"body":"that may involve like going out and"},{"startTime":796.25,"endTime":800.825,"body":"like conducting surveys or like in-situ"},{"startTime":796.25,"endTime":800.825,"body":"measurements or having like monitoring"},{"startTime":800.825,"endTime":802.625,"body":"instruments or stations that are fixed."},{"startTime":802.9250000000001,"endTime":806.4350000000001,"body":"And so that's really, I think the natural"},{"startTime":802.9250000000001,"endTime":806.4350000000001,"body":"progression of like getting into AI is"},{"startTime":806.4350000000001,"endTime":810.4090000000001,"body":"like recognising that there's always"},{"startTime":806.4350000000001,"endTime":810.4090000000001,"body":"the natural tendency and I think the"},{"startTime":810.4090000000001,"endTime":814.339,"body":"desire to take a bunch of different data"},{"startTime":810.4090000000001,"endTime":814.339,"body":"together, develop statistical models."},{"startTime":814.339,"endTime":818.479,"body":"You know what, what we do in the policy"},{"startTime":814.339,"endTime":818.479,"body":"sense is we try to develop econometric or"},{"startTime":818.479,"endTime":820.639,"body":"statistical models to try to make sense."},{"startTime":820.639,"endTime":823.4590000000001,"body":"If I've got like a y outcome"},{"startTime":820.639,"endTime":823.4590000000001,"body":"and I've got all these different"},{"startTime":823.4590000000001,"endTime":827.9490000000001,"body":"variables, how does X and all these"},{"startTime":823.4590000000001,"endTime":827.9490000000001,"body":"predictor variables relate to Y and"},{"startTime":827.9490000000001,"endTime":829.6590000000001,"body":"can X explain like what's going on?"},{"startTime":829.6590000000001,"endTime":829.9390000000001,"body":"And why?"},{"startTime":830.019,"endTime":833.019,"body":"mean, that's at the, at the base"},{"startTime":830.019,"endTime":833.019,"body":"of what we're trying to do, but"},{"startTime":833.019,"endTime":835.3290000000001,"body":"then the X can be very incomplete."},{"startTime":835.3290000000001,"endTime":837.9390000000001,"body":"And so it may only explain"},{"startTime":835.3290000000001,"endTime":837.9390000000001,"body":"like a little part of Y."},{"startTime":838.2090000000001,"endTime":840.8190000000001,"body":"So then the idea is, well, how"},{"startTime":838.2090000000001,"endTime":840.8190000000001,"body":"can we leverage techniques like"},{"startTime":840.8190000000001,"endTime":844.239,"body":"machine learning, which simply"},{"startTime":840.8190000000001,"endTime":844.239,"body":"don't look for linear relationships?"},{"startTime":844.359,"endTime":849.349,"body":"I mean, they're really trying to look"},{"startTime":844.359,"endTime":849.349,"body":"at non-linear and just really complex."},{"startTime":849.599,"endTime":851.969,"body":"You can think about like"},{"startTime":849.599,"endTime":851.969,"body":"webs and different networks."},{"startTime":851.969,"endTime":856.139,"body":"So how can they leverage these"},{"startTime":851.969,"endTime":856.139,"body":"multi-variate, multi-dimensional"},{"startTime":856.6790000000001,"endTime":860.129,"body":"relationships within different"},{"startTime":856.6790000000001,"endTime":860.129,"body":"variables in order to understand or"},{"startTime":860.129,"endTime":863.5790000000001,"body":"explain the why or like the end goal"},{"startTime":860.129,"endTime":863.5790000000001,"body":"of what we're trying to measure."},{"startTime":863.9390000000001,"endTime":866.3090000000001,"body":"So I think that's like, I don't"},{"startTime":863.9390000000001,"endTime":866.3090000000001,"body":"know if that's like a really"},{"startTime":866.3090000000001,"endTime":869.639,"body":"long-winded or confusing way to"},{"startTime":866.3090000000001,"endTime":869.639,"body":"explain like why, you know, I've"},{"startTime":869.639,"endTime":871.0790000000001,"body":"been interested in AI, but that."},{"startTime":871.094,"endTime":875.094,"body":"That to me is how my brain thinks about"},{"startTime":871.094,"endTime":875.094,"body":"the logical progression of recognising,"},{"startTime":875.114,"endTime":877.604,"body":"okay, we have all this data, but how"},{"startTime":875.114,"endTime":877.604,"body":"do we actually bring it together?"},{"startTime":877.604,"endTime":878.234,"body":"And AI?"},{"startTime":878.234,"endTime":882.0740000000001,"body":"I think about it as like the glue"},{"startTime":878.234,"endTime":882.0740000000001,"body":"and helping us like kind of tie"},{"startTime":882.0740000000001,"endTime":884.594,"body":"everything together and make sense"},{"startTime":882.0740000000001,"endTime":884.594,"body":"of it and help us, like yeah,"},{"startTime":884.594,"endTime":886.484,"body":"better make sense of all of this."},{"startTime":886.5840000000001,"endTime":890.634,"body":"Yeah, the, I guess these like un"},{"startTime":886.5840000000001,"endTime":890.634,"body":"unpredicted or sometimes surprising"},{"startTime":890.849,"endTime":895.524,"body":"or like you don't necessarily come"},{"startTime":890.849,"endTime":895.524,"body":"into a problem or like a bunch of data"},{"startTime":895.774,"endTime":898.8340000000001,"body":"necessarily thinking, oh, well, all"},{"startTime":895.774,"endTime":898.8340000000001,"body":"of these variables could have some"},{"startTime":898.8340000000001,"endTime":900.274,"body":"sort of relationship to each other."},{"startTime":900.274,"endTime":901.9540000000001,"body":"And that, that's what AI helps us do."},{"startTime":901.9540000000001,"endTime":905.1740000000001,"body":"It helps us to discover the"},{"startTime":901.9540000000001,"endTime":905.1740000000001,"body":"undiscoverable and then help"},{"startTime":905.1740000000001,"endTime":906.7940000000001,"body":"to make the invisible visible."},{"startTime":908.014,"endTime":908.4340000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":908.4340000000001,"endTime":916.2040000000001,"body":"And obviously the AI revolution,"},{"startTime":908.4340000000001,"endTime":916.2040000000001,"body":"it's not really a revolution, but the"},{"startTime":916.504,"endTime":920.7940000000001,"body":"revolution that we've seen in the last"},{"startTime":916.504,"endTime":920.7940000000001,"body":"two and a bit years since ChatGPT came"},{"startTime":920.7940000000001,"endTime":927.004,"body":"to the fore has been kicked in the"},{"startTime":920.7940000000001,"endTime":927.004,"body":"well, has been kicked off, shall we"},{"startTime":927.004,"endTime":935.5540000000001,"body":"say, by ChatGPT, you've got a version"},{"startTime":927.004,"endTime":935.5540000000001,"body":"of that, not ChatGPT, but ChatNDC."},{"startTime":936.0840000000001,"endTime":937.009,"body":"Tell us a little bit about that."},{"startTime":937.899,"endTime":940.9590000000001,"body":"Yeah, so I guess I didn't fully"},{"startTime":937.899,"endTime":940.9590000000001,"body":"answer your, your last question,"},{"startTime":940.9590000000001,"endTime":944.9490000000001,"body":"which is how we're using AI and"},{"startTime":940.9590000000001,"endTime":944.9490000000001,"body":"so I, I named one more general"},{"startTime":944.9490000000001,"endTime":947.0790000000001,"body":"application, which was like data fusion."},{"startTime":947.0790000000001,"endTime":951.129,"body":"So how can we take and, and leverage"},{"startTime":947.0790000000001,"endTime":951.129,"body":"the fact that there's so much data"},{"startTime":951.129,"endTime":955.485,"body":"now being collected by sensors and"},{"startTime":951.129,"endTime":955.485,"body":"satellites and other methods by"},{"startTime":955.86,"endTime":960.2700000000001,"body":"activity from our online behavior and"},{"startTime":955.86,"endTime":960.2700000000001,"body":"preferences that we express through what"},{"startTime":960.2700000000001,"endTime":962.07,"body":"websites we click on and what we buy."},{"startTime":962.3100000000001,"endTime":963.96,"body":"So there's a lot more"},{"startTime":962.3100000000001,"endTime":963.96,"body":"data that's going on."},{"startTime":963.96,"endTime":965.5500000000001,"body":"So that's like one application."},{"startTime":965.97,"endTime":969.6300000000001,"body":"And I think this emerging application"},{"startTime":965.97,"endTime":969.6300000000001,"body":"is also recognising that texts can"},{"startTime":969.6300000000001,"endTime":973.6500000000001,"body":"be used as data as well, and, and"},{"startTime":969.6300000000001,"endTime":973.6500000000001,"body":"can be quantified, can be analyzed."},{"startTime":973.6800000000001,"endTime":977.695,"body":"And that's really the foundation of"},{"startTime":973.6800000000001,"endTime":977.695,"body":"these large language models that are"},{"startTime":978.1450000000001,"endTime":982.2850000000001,"body":"looking at these patterns in text"},{"startTime":978.1450000000001,"endTime":982.2850000000001,"body":"and then using that to develop these"},{"startTime":982.2850000000001,"endTime":985.345,"body":"machine learning based models that"},{"startTime":982.2850000000001,"endTime":985.345,"body":"can then help us to generate new text."},{"startTime":985.345,"endTime":989.605,"body":"So generative AI then can leverage"},{"startTime":985.345,"endTime":989.605,"body":"these large language models and help"},{"startTime":989.605,"endTime":994.375,"body":"develop these chat bots that make us"},{"startTime":989.605,"endTime":994.375,"body":"think that we're actually communicating"},{"startTime":994.585,"endTime":998.0300000000001,"body":"with an intelligent sentient being"},{"startTime":994.585,"endTime":998.0300000000001,"body":"on the other side of end of the"},{"startTime":998.1500000000001,"endTime":1001.1550000000001,"body":"computer when we're really just"},{"startTime":998.1500000000001,"endTime":1001.1550000000001,"body":"interacting with a large language model."},{"startTime":1001.1550000000001,"endTime":1005.4300000000001,"body":"And that's really, I think"},{"startTime":1001.1550000000001,"endTime":1005.4300000000001,"body":"where ChatGPT came online and"},{"startTime":1005.4300000000001,"endTime":1006.99,"body":"really exploded the internet."},{"startTime":1006.99,"endTime":1009.7800000000001,"body":"I mean, it blew my mind when it"},{"startTime":1006.99,"endTime":1009.7800000000001,"body":"first came out two years ago,"},{"startTime":1009.96,"endTime":1011.1,"body":"and I started to ask a question."},{"startTime":1011.1,"endTime":1013.8900000000001,"body":"I think everybody, all these journalists,"},{"startTime":1011.1,"endTime":1013.8900000000001,"body":"everybody was going on and asking"},{"startTime":1013.8900000000001,"endTime":1017.1,"body":"it different questions and trying to"},{"startTime":1013.8900000000001,"endTime":1017.1,"body":"test the limits of, of these types"},{"startTime":1017.1,"endTime":1021.57,"body":"of chatbots and trying to figure out,"},{"startTime":1017.1,"endTime":1021.57,"body":"okay, well if I can I try to get it to"},{"startTime":1021.6,"endTime":1024.87,"body":"be in a relationship with me, or can"},{"startTime":1021.6,"endTime":1024.87,"body":"I try to ask it to predict the future"},{"startTime":1024.87,"endTime":1026.79,"body":"and all these kinds of situations."},{"startTime":1027.04,"endTime":1030.67,"body":"But then I started to ask ChatGPT about"},{"startTime":1027.04,"endTime":1030.67,"body":"climate change because obviously that's"},{"startTime":1030.67,"endTime":1032.47,"body":"my domain, that's what I'm interested in."},{"startTime":1032.8,"endTime":1036.19,"body":"So I started to ask it very"},{"startTime":1032.8,"endTime":1036.19,"body":"basic questions like what does"},{"startTime":1036.25,"endTime":1037.66,"body":"it mean to pledge net zero?"},{"startTime":1037.69,"endTime":1042.13,"body":"Which of course is the overarching"},{"startTime":1037.69,"endTime":1042.13,"body":"goal that society, the world climate"},{"startTime":1042.13,"endTime":1045.73,"body":"scientists say that we have to strive"},{"startTime":1042.13,"endTime":1045.73,"body":"towards to reach by mid-century if"},{"startTime":1045.73,"endTime":1049.27,"body":"we have any hope of staving off the"},{"startTime":1045.73,"endTime":1049.27,"body":"worst impacts of climate change."},{"startTime":1049.81,"endTime":1054.5700000000002,"body":"And so I asked it things like can"},{"startTime":1049.81,"endTime":1054.5700000000002,"body":"we continue to use fossil fuels and"},{"startTime":1054.915,"endTime":1056.805,"body":"have a credible net zero target."},{"startTime":1056.865,"endTime":1060.135,"body":"If you're a company and you've"},{"startTime":1056.865,"endTime":1060.135,"body":"pledged to decarbonise, can you"},{"startTime":1060.135,"endTime":1061.635,"body":"continue to use fossil fuels?"},{"startTime":1061.9950000000001,"endTime":1065.925,"body":"And the, the answer that I got from"},{"startTime":1061.9950000000001,"endTime":1065.925,"body":"ChatGPT was quite ChatGPT It said yes."},{"startTime":1066.285,"endTime":1069.9450000000002,"body":"A company that is pledging net"},{"startTime":1066.285,"endTime":1069.9450000000002,"body":"zero isn't necessarily failing to"},{"startTime":1069.9450000000002,"endTime":1071.4450000000002,"body":"make a credible net zero pledge."},{"startTime":1071.7450000000001,"endTime":1076.375,"body":"And that really took me aback because"},{"startTime":1071.7450000000001,"endTime":1076.375,"body":"I'm a person who has contributed"},{"startTime":1076.375,"endTime":1078.2350000000001,"body":"to these international assessments."},{"startTime":1078.2350000000001,"endTime":1082.345,"body":"The IPCC is probably the most well known"},{"startTime":1078.2350000000001,"endTime":1082.345,"body":"for those listeners who are unfamiliar."},{"startTime":1082.345,"endTime":1084.595,"body":"That's the Intergovernmental"},{"startTime":1082.345,"endTime":1084.595,"body":"Panel on Climate Change."},{"startTime":1084.805,"endTime":1088.825,"body":"That's the most authoritative scientific"},{"startTime":1084.805,"endTime":1088.825,"body":"assessment of climate change science."},{"startTime":1089.2150000000001,"endTime":1092.575,"body":"It is now in its seventh, starting"},{"startTime":1089.2150000000001,"endTime":1092.575,"body":"on its seventh assessment cycle."},{"startTime":1092.575,"endTime":1094.615,"body":"It started in the early 1990s."},{"startTime":1094.9450000000002,"endTime":1096.4750000000001,"body":"It's an intergovernmental process."},{"startTime":1096.4750000000001,"endTime":1098.605,"body":"So governments nominate"},{"startTime":1096.4750000000001,"endTime":1098.605,"body":"scientists all around the world."},{"startTime":1098.605,"endTime":1102.295,"body":"And so that's really in its strength is"},{"startTime":1098.605,"endTime":1102.295,"body":"that you have representation globally."},{"startTime":1102.295,"endTime":1103.645,"body":"It's not just a couple scientists."},{"startTime":1103.645,"endTime":1106.585,"body":"I mean, governments have the opportunity"},{"startTime":1103.645,"endTime":1106.585,"body":"to nominate whoever they like."},{"startTime":1106.585,"endTime":1110.892,"body":"And then that process is, is then whittled"},{"startTime":1106.585,"endTime":1110.892,"body":"down to several thousand scientists"},{"startTime":1110.892,"endTime":1112.422,"body":"that then contribute in the end."},{"startTime":1112.662,"endTime":1116.3220000000001,"body":"And so what the IPCC says is that"},{"startTime":1112.662,"endTime":1116.3220000000001,"body":"incontrovertibly, absolutely,"},{"startTime":1116.3220000000001,"endTime":1120.432,"body":"you cannot continue to burn"},{"startTime":1116.3220000000001,"endTime":1120.432,"body":"coal, natural gas and oil."},{"startTime":1120.847,"endTime":1126.287,"body":"And hope to achieve a credible net zero"},{"startTime":1120.847,"endTime":1126.287,"body":"scenario in the timeframe that we need it."},{"startTime":1126.287,"endTime":1129.467,"body":"Like we really, all of the"},{"startTime":1126.287,"endTime":1129.467,"body":"scenarios basically show a dramatic"},{"startTime":1129.497,"endTime":1130.787,"body":"phasing out of fossil fuels."},{"startTime":1131.1470000000002,"endTime":1134.1770000000001,"body":"So when I saw that from ChatGPT, I"},{"startTime":1131.1470000000002,"endTime":1134.1770000000001,"body":"was instantly worried and I thought,"},{"startTime":1134.1770000000001,"endTime":1136.007,"body":"oh my gosh, like this is problematic."},{"startTime":1136.307,"endTime":1139.607,"body":"And then I started on this rabbit hole of"},{"startTime":1136.307,"endTime":1139.607,"body":"like asking it a bunch of other climate"},{"startTime":1139.607,"endTime":1143.747,"body":"policy related questions and realising"},{"startTime":1139.607,"endTime":1143.747,"body":"that it does definitely does not have"},{"startTime":1143.747,"endTime":1145.967,"body":"very accurate or up-to-date information."},{"startTime":1146.267,"endTime":1147.9470000000001,"body":"So if you were to ask it things like."},{"startTime":1148.192,"endTime":1149.962,"body":"Does Egypt have a net zero target?"},{"startTime":1149.962,"endTime":1152.362,"body":"I mean, you can go and ask"},{"startTime":1149.962,"endTime":1152.362,"body":"it now, and it will say yes."},{"startTime":1152.362,"endTime":1155.8120000000001,"body":"It will give you a series"},{"startTime":1152.362,"endTime":1155.8120000000001,"body":"of policy documents."},{"startTime":1155.8120000000001,"endTime":1158.332,"body":"It'll give you certain years,"},{"startTime":1155.8120000000001,"endTime":1158.332,"body":"and all of it is made up."},{"startTime":1158.332,"endTime":1161.602,"body":"And so this is the well-known problem"},{"startTime":1158.332,"endTime":1161.602,"body":"with generative AI and a lot of"},{"startTime":1161.602,"endTime":1163.612,"body":"these chat bots of hallucination."},{"startTime":1164.082,"endTime":1169.932,"body":"So it can generate very real,"},{"startTime":1164.082,"endTime":1169.932,"body":"incredibly sounding answers that frankly"},{"startTime":1169.932,"endTime":1171.972,"body":"are not grounded in any accuracy."},{"startTime":1172.152,"endTime":1175.2720000000002,"body":"And that's a well-known problem with"},{"startTime":1172.152,"endTime":1175.2720000000002,"body":"a lot of generic chat bots because"},{"startTime":1175.452,"endTime":1179.3220000000001,"body":"they're just trying to generate human"},{"startTime":1175.452,"endTime":1179.3220000000001,"body":"and realistic sounding responses."},{"startTime":1179.3220000000001,"endTime":1183.7920000000001,"body":"But there's not necessarily verification"},{"startTime":1179.3220000000001,"endTime":1183.7920000000001,"body":"that happens on the part of these large"},{"startTime":1183.7920000000001,"endTime":1186.852,"body":"companies that are developing these"},{"startTime":1183.7920000000001,"endTime":1186.852,"body":"large language models in chatbots."},{"startTime":1186.852,"endTime":1189.132,"body":"And so you as a user,"},{"startTime":1186.852,"endTime":1189.132,"body":"you're none the wiser."},{"startTime":1189.132,"endTime":1192.732,"body":"You have no idea what's actually accurate"},{"startTime":1189.132,"endTime":1192.732,"body":"and what's not, unless you actually then"},{"startTime":1193.1770000000001,"endTime":1196.567,"body":"do your own research to try to figure"},{"startTime":1193.1770000000001,"endTime":1196.567,"body":"out, okay, well is this actually true?"},{"startTime":1196.567,"endTime":1198.757,"body":"Did Egypt actually"},{"startTime":1196.567,"endTime":1198.757,"body":"pledge a net zero target?"},{"startTime":1198.9370000000001,"endTime":1202.507,"body":"Can I continue to use fossil fuels"},{"startTime":1198.9370000000001,"endTime":1202.507,"body":"and have a credible net zero target?"},{"startTime":1202.837,"endTime":1207.1570000000002,"body":"But then again, who wants to read the"},{"startTime":1202.837,"endTime":1207.1570000000002,"body":"tens of thousands of pages of IPCC report?"},{"startTime":1207.1570000000002,"endTime":1207.487,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1207.877,"endTime":1211.242,"body":"And so that's one of the"},{"startTime":1207.877,"endTime":1211.242,"body":"reasons why my team and I have"},{"startTime":1211.242,"endTime":1212.922,"body":"developed now two chatbots."},{"startTime":1213.162,"endTime":1217.5420000000001,"body":"One is ChatNetZero.AI, and that one"},{"startTime":1213.162,"endTime":1217.5420000000001,"body":"is specifically targeted towards"},{"startTime":1217.5420000000001,"endTime":1221.742,"body":"these net zero pledges and to try"},{"startTime":1217.5420000000001,"endTime":1221.742,"body":"to make a a project the net zero"},{"startTime":1221.742,"endTime":1225.582,"body":"tracker, which my lab is one of"},{"startTime":1221.742,"endTime":1225.582,"body":"four principal groups developing."},{"startTime":1225.852,"endTime":1229.452,"body":"And so that project, the net zero"},{"startTime":1225.852,"endTime":1229.452,"body":"tracker, we track the net zero"},{"startTime":1229.452,"endTime":1234.2720000000002,"body":"pledges of 4,000 entities, including"},{"startTime":1229.452,"endTime":1234.2720000000002,"body":"all national governments, and large"},{"startTime":1234.2720000000002,"endTime":1238.967,"body":"regions in the G20 and then also"},{"startTime":1234.2720000000002,"endTime":1238.967,"body":"cities over the size of half a million."},{"startTime":1238.967,"endTime":1242.717,"body":"And then all Forbes 2000 publicly"},{"startTime":1238.967,"endTime":1242.717,"body":"listed companies and about a"},{"startTime":1242.717,"endTime":1245.267,"body":"hundred or so privately listed"},{"startTime":1242.717,"endTime":1245.267,"body":"companies are also included."},{"startTime":1245.567,"endTime":1249.617,"body":"And so we have a scorecard and we go"},{"startTime":1245.567,"endTime":1249.617,"body":"and we search for information about"},{"startTime":1249.617,"endTime":1252.767,"body":"whether or not these different entities"},{"startTime":1249.617,"endTime":1252.767,"body":"have pledged a net zero target, and"},{"startTime":1252.767,"endTime":1254.4170000000001,"body":"then we evaluate them for credibility."},{"startTime":1254.4170000000001,"endTime":1256.367,"body":"So have they pledged near term action?"},{"startTime":1256.517,"endTime":1259.307,"body":"Do they have a transparent plan"},{"startTime":1256.517,"endTime":1259.307,"body":"that details what they're doing?"},{"startTime":1259.607,"endTime":1264.327,"body":"Do they include things like shady"},{"startTime":1259.607,"endTime":1264.327,"body":"offsets that may not be focused on."},{"startTime":1264.327,"endTime":1267.567,"body":"And so their efforts are not focused on"},{"startTime":1264.327,"endTime":1267.567,"body":"decarbonising their own efforts and their"},{"startTime":1267.567,"endTime":1269.4270000000001,"body":"own supply chain and their own emissions."},{"startTime":1269.727,"endTime":1270.6870000000001,"body":"You know, things like that."},{"startTime":1270.6870000000001,"endTime":1274.1970000000001,"body":"And so even though we have a scorecard"},{"startTime":1270.6870000000001,"endTime":1274.1970000000001,"body":"for every actor, it's really difficult"},{"startTime":1274.4070000000002,"endTime":1277.497,"body":"to then very quickly say, well, I"},{"startTime":1274.4070000000002,"endTime":1277.497,"body":"wanna know like, who's doing better?"},{"startTime":1277.497,"endTime":1280.347,"body":"Is it Germany or the United"},{"startTime":1277.497,"endTime":1280.347,"body":"States, or Amazon or Walmart?"},{"startTime":1280.352,"endTime":1283.6470000000002,"body":"It's really difficult to do these kinds"},{"startTime":1280.352,"endTime":1283.6470000000002,"body":"of comparisons and then to be able to"},{"startTime":1283.6470000000002,"endTime":1285.507,"body":"ask like these questions of evaluation."},{"startTime":1285.507,"endTime":1288.9370000000001,"body":"I mean, sometimes it's hard, even"},{"startTime":1285.507,"endTime":1288.9370000000001,"body":"if you're given data to then for you"},{"startTime":1288.9370000000001,"endTime":1290.6470000000002,"body":"as a non-expert to make sense of it."},{"startTime":1290.887,"endTime":1295.9270000000001,"body":"So we thought that actually adding a"},{"startTime":1290.887,"endTime":1295.9270000000001,"body":"layer of AI to just interact with the"},{"startTime":1295.9270000000001,"endTime":1301.327,"body":"data that's on the net zero target, plus"},{"startTime":1295.9270000000001,"endTime":1301.327,"body":"a few selected evaluation documents and"},{"startTime":1301.6570000000002,"endTime":1306.127,"body":"these standards that the UN bodies have"},{"startTime":1301.6570000000002,"endTime":1306.127,"body":"put together to specify what is actually"},{"startTime":1306.127,"endTime":1311.3200000000002,"body":"a credible net zero target, that would"},{"startTime":1306.127,"endTime":1311.3200000000002,"body":"be a much more constrained way allowing"},{"startTime":1311.3200000000002,"endTime":1316.24,"body":"the AI to then only pull answers from"},{"startTime":1311.3200000000002,"endTime":1316.24,"body":"verified documents and verified sources"},{"startTime":1316.24,"endTime":1320.71,"body":"that we train it with, and then we've"},{"startTime":1316.24,"endTime":1320.71,"body":"also implemented an anti hallucination"},{"startTime":1320.71,"endTime":1325.3,"body":"algorithm to then make sure that every"},{"startTime":1320.71,"endTime":1325.3,"body":"response that's generated is actually"},{"startTime":1325.3,"endTime":1327.13,"body":"checked against one of our sources."},{"startTime":1327.3400000000001,"endTime":1330.01,"body":"And then we provide those"},{"startTime":1327.3400000000001,"endTime":1330.01,"body":"references and page numbers."},{"startTime":1330.025,"endTime":1333.355,"body":"For the user to then verify"},{"startTime":1330.025,"endTime":1333.355,"body":"themselves that the AI hasn't"},{"startTime":1333.355,"endTime":1334.615,"body":"completely gone off the rails."},{"startTime":1334.885,"endTime":1336.625,"body":"So that's one of the, the chatbots."},{"startTime":1336.655,"endTime":1339.9750000000001,"body":"And then the second one you"},{"startTime":1336.655,"endTime":1339.9750000000001,"body":"mentioned, which is ChatNDC.org."},{"startTime":1340.315,"endTime":1343.765,"body":"The NDC stands for Nationally"},{"startTime":1340.315,"endTime":1343.765,"body":"Determined Contributions."},{"startTime":1343.765,"endTime":1346.885,"body":"So these are national pledges"},{"startTime":1343.765,"endTime":1346.885,"body":"that countries have pledged"},{"startTime":1346.885,"endTime":1347.9950000000001,"body":"to the Paris Agreement."},{"startTime":1348.325,"endTime":1350.155,"body":"But again, that's really difficult."},{"startTime":1350.155,"endTime":1351.805,"body":"A lot of them are not in English."},{"startTime":1352.105,"endTime":1356.815,"body":"They are incredibly variable in terms"},{"startTime":1352.105,"endTime":1356.815,"body":"of their length and their content."},{"startTime":1357.115,"endTime":1360.535,"body":"And so if you just wanna ask a very"},{"startTime":1357.115,"endTime":1360.535,"body":"simple question of does Egypt have a"},{"startTime":1360.535,"endTime":1365.002,"body":"net zero target, or what has the UK"},{"startTime":1360.535,"endTime":1365.002,"body":"pledged and how have their national"},{"startTime":1365.002,"endTime":1367.192,"body":"climate policies changed over time?"},{"startTime":1367.402,"endTime":1372.472,"body":"You can actually do that with ChatNDC, and"},{"startTime":1367.402,"endTime":1372.472,"body":"so we're using AI, but we're not allowing"},{"startTime":1372.712,"endTime":1377.932,"body":"the algorithm and the model to go search"},{"startTime":1372.712,"endTime":1377.932,"body":"the internet and use everything available."},{"startTime":1378.557,"endTime":1379.1870000000001,"body":"Who knows."},{"startTime":1379.1870000000001,"endTime":1382.097,"body":"I mean, that's the problem with a"},{"startTime":1379.1870000000001,"endTime":1382.097,"body":"lot of these generic models like"},{"startTime":1382.097,"endTime":1386.237,"body":"ChatGPT and with Gemini, is that"},{"startTime":1382.097,"endTime":1386.237,"body":"you really have no idea what they're"},{"startTime":1386.237,"endTime":1389.237,"body":"using to train these models and how"},{"startTime":1386.237,"endTime":1389.237,"body":"they're generating these responses."},{"startTime":1389.327,"endTime":1392.957,"body":"And so we've tackled that problem by"},{"startTime":1389.327,"endTime":1392.957,"body":"trying to constrain what's available."},{"startTime":1392.957,"endTime":1397.1870000000001,"body":"So this is a process called retrieval"},{"startTime":1392.957,"endTime":1397.1870000000001,"body":"augmented generation or RAG for those who"},{"startTime":1397.1870000000001,"endTime":1399.347,"body":"are familiar with a lot of these AI terms."},{"startTime":1399.557,"endTime":1403.6670000000001,"body":"And so that's a much more constrained"},{"startTime":1399.557,"endTime":1403.6670000000001,"body":"way to develop a domain specific"},{"startTime":1403.727,"endTime":1408.702,"body":"chat bot that can produce much more"},{"startTime":1403.727,"endTime":1408.702,"body":"credible and accurate responses that"},{"startTime":1408.702,"endTime":1410.232,"body":"if you were to use a generic model."},{"startTime":1411.584,"endTime":1420.554,"body":"And who are these sites available"},{"startTime":1411.584,"endTime":1420.554,"body":"to, and are they free or paid?"},{"startTime":1421.0240000000001,"endTime":1427.164,"body":"And who do you think is going to"},{"startTime":1421.0240000000001,"endTime":1427.164,"body":"be the main users of these sites?"},{"startTime":1428.0240000000001,"endTime":1432.584,"body":"Yeah, so for right now, the tools are"},{"startTime":1428.0240000000001,"endTime":1432.584,"body":"publicly available so anybody can use 'em."},{"startTime":1432.584,"endTime":1433.934,"body":"They're accessible to anyone."},{"startTime":1433.9840000000002,"endTime":1437.7340000000002,"body":"So I didn't mention that we"},{"startTime":1433.9840000000002,"endTime":1437.7340000000002,"body":"also have a document catalog."},{"startTime":1437.9740000000002,"endTime":1442.419,"body":"So not only can you ask these two chat"},{"startTime":1437.9740000000002,"endTime":1442.419,"body":"bots, just whatever question you want"},{"startTime":1442.419,"endTime":1444.939,"body":"about, obviously like don't ask it"},{"startTime":1442.419,"endTime":1444.939,"body":"like, what should I have for dinner?"},{"startTime":1444.939,"endTime":1448.179,"body":"Or come up with a recipe for my"},{"startTime":1444.939,"endTime":1448.179,"body":"like lunch today, because that's"},{"startTime":1448.179,"endTime":1449.1390000000001,"body":"not what they're trained to do."},{"startTime":1449.1390000000001,"endTime":1451.839,"body":"Like continue to use ChatGPT for that."},{"startTime":1451.959,"endTime":1457.269,"body":"But if you're asking a climate domain"},{"startTime":1451.959,"endTime":1457.269,"body":"specific question, then we also allow or"},{"startTime":1457.269,"endTime":1461.709,"body":"we also have this document catalog feature"},{"startTime":1457.269,"endTime":1461.709,"body":"where you say, okay, well I only want you"},{"startTime":1461.709,"endTime":1467.199,"body":"to tell me information from like China's"},{"startTime":1461.709,"endTime":1467.199,"body":"NDC or from like the IPCC documents."},{"startTime":1467.409,"endTime":1470.759,"body":"And then it will highlight"},{"startTime":1467.409,"endTime":1470.759,"body":"where in the document it's"},{"startTime":1470.759,"endTime":1472.169,"body":"finding the information from."},{"startTime":1472.3490000000002,"endTime":1475.8890000000001,"body":"So that same capability that we"},{"startTime":1472.3490000000002,"endTime":1475.8890000000001,"body":"currently have in ChatNDC, we're actually"},{"startTime":1475.8890000000001,"endTime":1477.929,"body":"adopting for ChatNetZero as well."},{"startTime":1477.929,"endTime":1481.979,"body":"So users will also be able to then"},{"startTime":1477.929,"endTime":1481.979,"body":"ask like document specific questions."},{"startTime":1481.979,"endTime":1485.249,"body":"So then they can say, I wanna"},{"startTime":1481.979,"endTime":1485.249,"body":"look at Apple's latest climate"},{"startTime":1485.249,"endTime":1486.659,"body":"plan, what they're planning to do."},{"startTime":1486.659,"endTime":1490.8590000000002,"body":"And I want you to like actually highlight"},{"startTime":1486.659,"endTime":1490.8590000000002,"body":"specific areas where it's talking about"},{"startTime":1490.8590000000002,"endTime":1494.339,"body":"offset use or it's talking about their"},{"startTime":1490.8590000000002,"endTime":1494.339,"body":"interim target or their net zero pledge."},{"startTime":1494.6390000000001,"endTime":1497.459,"body":"So those are some updates, but right"},{"startTime":1494.6390000000001,"endTime":1497.459,"body":"now everything is available to the"},{"startTime":1497.459,"endTime":1501.202,"body":"public and we're hoping that we'll"},{"startTime":1497.459,"endTime":1501.202,"body":"be able to fundraise and scale some"},{"startTime":1501.202,"endTime":1504.502,"body":"of these tools to allow like an a"},{"startTime":1501.202,"endTime":1504.502,"body":"host of other really cool features."},{"startTime":1504.7720000000002,"endTime":1508.692,"body":"So some of the things that users have"},{"startTime":1504.7720000000002,"endTime":1508.692,"body":"been asking as they say, well, I have my"},{"startTime":1508.692,"endTime":1512.712,"body":"own set of documents that are proprietary"},{"startTime":1508.692,"endTime":1512.712,"body":"or I don't wanna share on the internet."},{"startTime":1512.892,"endTime":1518.142,"body":"So can I upload those documents and then"},{"startTime":1512.892,"endTime":1518.142,"body":"incorporate those into the model as well?"},{"startTime":1518.142,"endTime":1522.0720000000001,"body":"And then be able to ask questions of,"},{"startTime":1518.142,"endTime":1522.0720000000001,"body":"if I'm Apple, I'm picking on Apple,"},{"startTime":1522.0720000000001,"endTime":1524.442,"body":"but we'll just say like, let's say"},{"startTime":1522.0720000000001,"endTime":1524.442,"body":"I'm Apple and then I have like a"},{"startTime":1524.442,"endTime":1529.0620000000001,"body":"draft of my new policy strategy, and"},{"startTime":1524.442,"endTime":1529.0620000000001,"body":"I wanna say, okay, well I wanna know"},{"startTime":1529.0620000000001,"endTime":1530.7720000000002,"body":"how this compares to my competitors."},{"startTime":1530.982,"endTime":1534.432,"body":"And that would include things"},{"startTime":1530.982,"endTime":1534.432,"body":"like Samsung or like, you know,"},{"startTime":1534.432,"endTime":1537.422,"body":"like, Intel or something, or"},{"startTime":1534.432,"endTime":1537.422,"body":"these other type of Microsoft or"},{"startTime":1537.422,"endTime":1538.5620000000001,"body":"these other types of companies."},{"startTime":1538.8020000000001,"endTime":1542.2640000000001,"body":"But I don't want that information"},{"startTime":1538.8020000000001,"endTime":1542.2640000000001,"body":"to be available for the public."},{"startTime":1542.2640000000001,"endTime":1544.364,"body":"And so you these kinds"},{"startTime":1542.2640000000001,"endTime":1544.364,"body":"of features as well."},{"startTime":1544.614,"endTime":1547.884,"body":"And then what we have heard from a"},{"startTime":1544.614,"endTime":1547.884,"body":"lot of stakeholders and like policy"},{"startTime":1547.884,"endTime":1550.944,"body":"users is a lot of people they wanna"},{"startTime":1547.884,"endTime":1550.944,"body":"be able to do like forward-looking,"},{"startTime":1550.944,"endTime":1554.2740000000001,"body":"like forecasting of like, what should"},{"startTime":1550.944,"endTime":1554.2740000000001,"body":"I be doing, what could I be doing?"},{"startTime":1554.454,"endTime":1558.954,"body":"Where are areas that I could be improving"},{"startTime":1554.454,"endTime":1558.954,"body":"and if I were to enhance my climate"},{"startTime":1558.954,"endTime":1563.564,"body":"policy efforts in these domains, is"},{"startTime":1558.954,"endTime":1563.564,"body":"that going to help make the world better"},{"startTime":1563.564,"endTime":1565.154,"body":"in terms of like reducing climate?"},{"startTime":1565.154,"endTime":1567.584,"body":"You know, these kinds of, like,"},{"startTime":1565.154,"endTime":1567.584,"body":"these are really complicated, you"},{"startTime":1567.584,"endTime":1569.8700000000001,"body":"know, more fore casting questions."},{"startTime":1569.8700000000001,"endTime":1573.38,"body":"Whereas a lot of AI is much better"},{"startTime":1569.8700000000001,"endTime":1573.38,"body":"at doing like the past, like based"},{"startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1577.3700000000001,"body":"on a past set of data, historic"},{"startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1577.3700000000001,"body":"trajectories and historic patterns."},{"startTime":1577.76,"endTime":1579.41,"body":"How can I make sense of what's been done?"},{"startTime":1579.41,"endTime":1582.72,"body":"But I think this type of forecasting"},{"startTime":1579.41,"endTime":1582.72,"body":"is much more challenging."},{"startTime":1582.97,"endTime":1586.66,"body":"So in terms of the users, I mean, I"},{"startTime":1582.97,"endTime":1586.66,"body":"think already we're saying that a lot of"},{"startTime":1586.72,"endTime":1590.64,"body":"different audiences are really interested"},{"startTime":1586.72,"endTime":1590.64,"body":"and, and have started to use the tools."},{"startTime":1591.0,"endTime":1594.98,"body":"So I think on one level, individual"},{"startTime":1591.0,"endTime":1594.98,"body":"users, so like, anyone who's like a"},{"startTime":1594.98,"endTime":1599.03,"body":"researcher or a concerned citizen, if"},{"startTime":1594.98,"endTime":1599.03,"body":"they just wanna get basic, credible"},{"startTime":1599.03,"endTime":1600.8,"body":"information about climate change policy."},{"startTime":1600.8,"endTime":1604.4,"body":"I mean, I've even encouraged my students"},{"startTime":1600.8,"endTime":1604.4,"body":"in my climate change class this semester"},{"startTime":1604.4,"endTime":1606.17,"body":"as they're developing their policy memos."},{"startTime":1606.46,"endTime":1610.8300000000002,"body":"So they're doing a mock conference of"},{"startTime":1606.46,"endTime":1610.8300000000002,"body":"parties, so a mock cop next week in class."},{"startTime":1611.13,"endTime":1614.01,"body":"And so one of the things I recommended"},{"startTime":1611.13,"endTime":1614.01,"body":"that they do is to actually use"},{"startTime":1614.01,"endTime":1618.21,"body":"my chat bots to try to get some"},{"startTime":1614.01,"endTime":1618.21,"body":"information about like the NDCs in these"},{"startTime":1618.21,"endTime":1621.45,"body":"different countries and what they've"},{"startTime":1618.21,"endTime":1621.45,"body":"done, how they've evolved over time."},{"startTime":1621.72,"endTime":1625.92,"body":"So I think if you're a student or an"},{"startTime":1621.72,"endTime":1625.92,"body":"educator, a concerned citizen and you just"},{"startTime":1625.92,"endTime":1629.3400000000001,"body":"wanna get some basic accurate information,"},{"startTime":1625.92,"endTime":1629.3400000000001,"body":"I think these tools are really useful."},{"startTime":1629.7,"endTime":1632.73,"body":"And then I think also if"},{"startTime":1629.7,"endTime":1632.73,"body":"you are a policymaker."},{"startTime":1633.085,"endTime":1636.145,"body":"It can be really useful if you"},{"startTime":1633.085,"endTime":1636.145,"body":"are trying to update any of"},{"startTime":1636.145,"endTime":1638.315,"body":"your types of, or yeah policies."},{"startTime":1638.315,"endTime":1642.515,"body":"Even not a policymaker per se, but you're"},{"startTime":1638.315,"endTime":1642.515,"body":"a decision maker and let's say that"},{"startTime":1642.515,"endTime":1647.525,"body":"you're trying to inform a particular"},{"startTime":1642.515,"endTime":1647.525,"body":"agency or constituent or a government"},{"startTime":1647.555,"endTime":1649.4750000000001,"body":"agency about what they should do."},{"startTime":1649.655,"endTime":1652.2050000000002,"body":"I think this is also a"},{"startTime":1649.655,"endTime":1652.2050000000002,"body":"really nice tool to get."},{"startTime":1652.2250000000001,"endTime":1653.4850000000001,"body":"Accurate information."},{"startTime":1653.795,"endTime":1656.885,"body":"And then I think also for like"},{"startTime":1653.795,"endTime":1656.885,"body":"companies, it's, it's all really"},{"startTime":1656.885,"endTime":1658.2050000000002,"body":"useful to help them benchmark."},{"startTime":1658.2050000000002,"endTime":1661.835,"body":"So if they say, I'm in the apparel"},{"startTime":1658.2050000000002,"endTime":1661.835,"body":"sector and I really wanna know like"},{"startTime":1661.835,"endTime":1665.585,"body":"what companies in the apparel sector are"},{"startTime":1661.835,"endTime":1665.585,"body":"doing and where there are some gaps and"},{"startTime":1665.585,"endTime":1669.635,"body":"like how I can be like leading in these"},{"startTime":1665.585,"endTime":1669.635,"body":"given like a certain set of constraints."},{"startTime":1669.635,"endTime":1673.515,"body":"I think this is also like an area where"},{"startTime":1669.635,"endTime":1673.515,"body":"these tools could be really useful."},{"startTime":1673.665,"endTime":1675.855,"body":"And we've heard from some"},{"startTime":1673.665,"endTime":1675.855,"body":"like think tanks as well."},{"startTime":1675.855,"endTime":1679.605,"body":"We've actually been contacted by a couple"},{"startTime":1675.855,"endTime":1679.605,"body":"of think tanks that have said, these"},{"startTime":1679.605,"endTime":1681.275,"body":"tools can be really, really useful."},{"startTime":1681.275,"endTime":1685.865,"body":"Right now I'm manually sifting through"},{"startTime":1681.275,"endTime":1685.865,"body":"country level NDCs to try to find"},{"startTime":1685.865,"endTime":1689.435,"body":"information about climate finance and"},{"startTime":1685.865,"endTime":1689.435,"body":"how they're tackling climate finance,"},{"startTime":1689.615,"endTime":1693.305,"body":"how much they're pledging by way of"},{"startTime":1689.615,"endTime":1693.305,"body":"climate finance to developing countries."},{"startTime":1693.615,"endTime":1696.285,"body":"Have they put any conditionalities"},{"startTime":1693.615,"endTime":1696.285,"body":"on what they're pledging."},{"startTime":1696.65,"endTime":1701.56,"body":"That kind of information I have heard"},{"startTime":1696.65,"endTime":1701.56,"body":"from different policy researchers and"},{"startTime":1701.56,"endTime":1705.7,"body":"various NGOs and civil society groups that"},{"startTime":1701.56,"endTime":1705.7,"body":"they're having to manually do that now."},{"startTime":1705.7,"endTime":1708.67,"body":"And they see a lot of potential"},{"startTime":1705.7,"endTime":1708.67,"body":"in these AI driven tools."},{"startTime":1708.8600000000001,"endTime":1712.27,"body":"ChatNDC and ChatNetZero to help"},{"startTime":1708.8600000000001,"endTime":1712.27,"body":"them streamline that process."},{"startTime":1712.6000000000001,"endTime":1716.775,"body":"And so, as another example for ChatNetZero"},{"startTime":1712.6000000000001,"endTime":1716.775,"body":"right now, it's a very volunteer"},{"startTime":1716.775,"endTime":1720.4650000000001,"body":"driven process where we actually have"},{"startTime":1716.775,"endTime":1720.4650000000001,"body":"volunteers go through and they Google,"},{"startTime":1720.4650000000001,"endTime":1724.365,"body":"they search for the different documents,"},{"startTime":1720.4650000000001,"endTime":1724.365,"body":"whether it's like a country level"},{"startTime":1724.365,"endTime":1729.275,"body":"policy document or a company level"},{"startTime":1724.365,"endTime":1729.275,"body":"corporate social responsibility report."},{"startTime":1729.4550000000002,"endTime":1732.155,"body":"They have our framework for what"},{"startTime":1729.4550000000002,"endTime":1732.155,"body":"we're looking for, and they're"},{"startTime":1732.155,"endTime":1733.835,"body":"manually looking for that information."},{"startTime":1734.135,"endTime":1737.105,"body":"So in this next round, what we"},{"startTime":1734.135,"endTime":1737.105,"body":"hope to do is to actually use"},{"startTime":1737.105,"endTime":1739.775,"body":"ChatNetZero to help actually do that."},{"startTime":1739.9550000000002,"endTime":1743.285,"body":"Process that a volunteer would do,"},{"startTime":1739.9550000000002,"endTime":1743.285,"body":"replicate those types of efforts,"},{"startTime":1743.525,"endTime":1748.055,"body":"extract that information, and then"},{"startTime":1743.525,"endTime":1748.055,"body":"use a volunteer to then verify did"},{"startTime":1748.055,"endTime":1749.4950000000001,"body":"the AI actually get it correct?"},{"startTime":1749.7050000000002,"endTime":1752.855,"body":"Did they actually, 'cause they, they'll"},{"startTime":1749.7050000000002,"endTime":1752.855,"body":"be able to see the highlighted passages"},{"startTime":1753.095,"endTime":1754.595,"body":"that the chat bot is drawing from."},{"startTime":1754.685,"endTime":1757.145,"body":"Do they actually summarize"},{"startTime":1754.685,"endTime":1757.145,"body":"that information correctly and"},{"startTime":1757.145,"endTime":1760.565,"body":"hopefully help us to speed the"},{"startTime":1757.145,"endTime":1760.565,"body":"pace at which the volunteers and"},{"startTime":1760.565,"endTime":1761.795,"body":"researchers can do their work?"},{"startTime":1762.035,"endTime":1766.2350000000001,"body":"So I don't think that AI is replacing, and"},{"startTime":1762.035,"endTime":1766.2350000000001,"body":"I mean I've, I've had a lot of pushback."},{"startTime":1766.405,"endTime":1769.555,"body":"From a lot of colleagues and fellow"},{"startTime":1766.405,"endTime":1769.555,"body":"researchers and academics that say, no"},{"startTime":1769.555,"endTime":1771.535,"body":"way AI can do my job better than I can."},{"startTime":1771.655,"endTime":1773.185,"body":"And that's, I completely agree."},{"startTime":1773.185,"endTime":1776.755,"body":"I don't think that AI should be replacing"},{"startTime":1773.185,"endTime":1776.755,"body":"the jobs that humans are doing, but"},{"startTime":1776.755,"endTime":1780.405,"body":"what I have seen it be able to do is"},{"startTime":1776.755,"endTime":1780.405,"body":"to actually help us do our job faster."},{"startTime":1781.265,"endTime":1786.732,"body":"Is is there any one surprising"},{"startTime":1781.265,"endTime":1786.732,"body":"insight or moment of clarity that have"},{"startTime":1786.732,"endTime":1788.082,"body":"come outta these chat bots so far?"},{"startTime":1789.102,"endTime":1792.942,"body":"Yeah, I mean I think the number"},{"startTime":1789.102,"endTime":1792.942,"body":"one point of clarity is actually in"},{"startTime":1792.942,"endTime":1797.019,"body":"related, in relation to the last thing"},{"startTime":1792.942,"endTime":1797.019,"body":"I said actually really have seen that."},{"startTime":1797.069,"endTime":1799.3490000000002,"body":"It's really not a substitute for humans."},{"startTime":1799.439,"endTime":1804.069,"body":"I really think that you get a lot of, and,"},{"startTime":1799.439,"endTime":1804.069,"body":"and so in statistics and probability, we"},{"startTime":1804.069,"endTime":1808.959,"body":"talk, we talk a lot about like regression"},{"startTime":1804.069,"endTime":1808.959,"body":"or convergence to the mean, and in a lot"},{"startTime":1808.959,"endTime":1813.384,"body":"of these big kinds of data, you can see"},{"startTime":1808.959,"endTime":1813.384,"body":"that when you get at tons and tons of"},{"startTime":1813.384,"endTime":1817.5240000000001,"body":"data, you kind of see this convergence"},{"startTime":1813.384,"endTime":1817.5240000000001,"body":"towards like a normal distribution or"},{"startTime":1817.5240000000001,"endTime":1820.0140000000001,"body":"towards like a central measure, right?"},{"startTime":1820.404,"endTime":1824.2740000000001,"body":"And I do think with a lot of"},{"startTime":1820.404,"endTime":1824.2740000000001,"body":"these types of generic chatbots,"},{"startTime":1824.2740000000001,"endTime":1825.684,"body":"that's exactly what we're seeing."},{"startTime":1825.954,"endTime":1830.7240000000002,"body":"So I don't think that that a lot of these"},{"startTime":1825.954,"endTime":1830.7240000000002,"body":"chatbots and AI will give you necessarily"},{"startTime":1831.2640000000001,"endTime":1836.5140000000001,"body":"the most like insightful, or most"},{"startTime":1831.2640000000001,"endTime":1836.5140000000001,"body":"original, or the most like novel insights"},{"startTime":1836.574,"endTime":1838.2240000000002,"body":"because it's converging towards the mean."},{"startTime":1838.464,"endTime":1842.634,"body":"So they're gonna pull what they"},{"startTime":1838.464,"endTime":1842.634,"body":"can from as many texts as possible."},{"startTime":1842.814,"endTime":1845.9940000000001,"body":"And so that's why you're getting"},{"startTime":1842.814,"endTime":1845.9940000000001,"body":"a lot of generic responses."},{"startTime":1846.204,"endTime":1850.88,"body":"And so being in academia, and I've"},{"startTime":1846.204,"endTime":1850.88,"body":"been in academia now for quite a"},{"startTime":1850.88,"endTime":1855.47,"body":"while, for I guess like if I count"},{"startTime":1850.88,"endTime":1855.47,"body":"my PhD for like almost 20 years now."},{"startTime":1855.8,"endTime":1859.46,"body":"And so I've reviewed a lot of student"},{"startTime":1855.8,"endTime":1859.46,"body":"work and so it's like very obvious."},{"startTime":1859.46,"endTime":1864.02,"body":"I can totally tell when a student has"},{"startTime":1859.46,"endTime":1864.02,"body":"used AI because it's like things, you"},{"startTime":1864.02,"endTime":1867.47,"body":"know, 'cause it's like I'm an expert in"},{"startTime":1864.02,"endTime":1867.47,"body":"the topics often that they're writing in."},{"startTime":1867.47,"endTime":1869.18,"body":"And so it's like, oh yeah, I've"},{"startTime":1867.47,"endTime":1869.18,"body":"heard this argument before."},{"startTime":1869.18,"endTime":1870.3200000000002,"body":"This sounds like very familiar."},{"startTime":1870.3200000000002,"endTime":1872.8700000000001,"body":"It's not anything new or like"},{"startTime":1870.3200000000002,"endTime":1872.8700000000001,"body":"particular earth shattering that's"},{"startTime":1872.8700000000001,"endTime":1874.13,"body":"necessarily being generated."},{"startTime":1874.46,"endTime":1880.28,"body":"So on one hand, I've been quite surprised"},{"startTime":1874.46,"endTime":1880.28,"body":"at like how generic a lot of the responses"},{"startTime":1880.28,"endTime":1884.6000000000001,"body":"have been and how that gives me confidence"},{"startTime":1880.28,"endTime":1884.6000000000001,"body":"that we still need humans who really"},{"startTime":1884.6000000000001,"endTime":1887.5700000000002,"body":"know the domain to really, I think, lead."},{"startTime":1887.5700000000002,"endTime":1889.0700000000002,"body":"So I think that's like one thing."},{"startTime":1889.3700000000001,"endTime":1892.97,"body":"I think secondly, on the flip side,"},{"startTime":1889.3700000000001,"endTime":1892.97,"body":"on the corollary, I actually see"},{"startTime":1893.06,"endTime":1897.737,"body":"how even experts themselves are not"},{"startTime":1893.06,"endTime":1897.737,"body":"necessarily that great at distinguishing"},{"startTime":1897.737,"endTime":1902.372,"body":"falsehoods or embellishments or,"},{"startTime":1897.737,"endTime":1902.372,"body":"types of hallucinations that can"},{"startTime":1902.372,"endTime":1904.142,"body":"be generated from generic chatbots."},{"startTime":1904.412,"endTime":1908.232,"body":"So we have a study that we did last"},{"startTime":1904.412,"endTime":1908.232,"body":"year after we developed ChatNetZero,"},{"startTime":1908.252,"endTime":1912.7820000000002,"body":"where we looked at two domain specific"},{"startTime":1908.252,"endTime":1912.7820000000002,"body":"chatbots, including ChatNetZero, and then"},{"startTime":1912.7820000000002,"endTime":1916.352,"body":"also ChatClimate, which was developed"},{"startTime":1912.7820000000002,"endTime":1916.352,"body":"by researchers outta Switzerland."},{"startTime":1916.622,"endTime":1919.592,"body":"And then we looked at three"},{"startTime":1916.622,"endTime":1919.592,"body":"generic chatbots, including Gemini,"},{"startTime":1919.9170000000001,"endTime":1921.8970000000002,"body":"ChatGPT and then also Coral."},{"startTime":1922.107,"endTime":1927.497,"body":"And we asked both of the chatbots a series"},{"startTime":1922.107,"endTime":1927.497,"body":"of 20 questions that related to climate"},{"startTime":1927.497,"endTime":1932.914,"body":"policy or just, yeah, yeah specifically"},{"startTime":1927.497,"endTime":1932.914,"body":"climate policy and climate action."},{"startTime":1933.814,"endTime":1936.069,"body":"I. And then so then we we asked"},{"startTime":1933.814,"endTime":1936.069,"body":"them the same 20 questions."},{"startTime":1936.069,"endTime":1938.8590000000002,"body":"Some of them were factual, some of"},{"startTime":1936.069,"endTime":1938.8590000000002,"body":"them were more nuanced, like, is"},{"startTime":1938.8590000000002,"endTime":1940.659,"body":"apple's net zero target credible?"},{"startTime":1940.8690000000001,"endTime":1942.789,"body":"Or is what Amazon doing?"},{"startTime":1942.789,"endTime":1946.449,"body":"Is it like aligned with"},{"startTime":1942.789,"endTime":1946.449,"body":"scientific pathways?"},{"startTime":1946.449,"endTime":1947.3490000000002,"body":"You know, things like that."},{"startTime":1947.739,"endTime":1950.3490000000002,"body":"And then we took all of the"},{"startTime":1947.739,"endTime":1950.3490000000002,"body":"responses that were generated."},{"startTime":1950.529,"endTime":1954.819,"body":"We blinded them and then we sent them"},{"startTime":1950.529,"endTime":1954.819,"body":"out to IPCC and climate policy experts to"},{"startTime":1954.819,"endTime":1958.479,"body":"then evaluate each one of the responses"},{"startTime":1954.819,"endTime":1958.479,"body":"based on their overall quality, their"},{"startTime":1958.479,"endTime":1960.159,"body":"factual accuracy, and their relevance."},{"startTime":1960.549,"endTime":1965.6490000000001,"body":"And I was really surprised when we"},{"startTime":1960.549,"endTime":1965.6490000000001,"body":"looked at the accuracy of the responses"},{"startTime":1965.6490000000001,"endTime":1967.029,"body":"generated from different chatbots."},{"startTime":1967.059,"endTime":1970.179,"body":"So the fidelity of the response"},{"startTime":1967.059,"endTime":1970.179,"body":"generated compared to the original"},{"startTime":1970.179,"endTime":1973.719,"body":"source document, the domain specific"},{"startTime":1970.179,"endTime":1973.719,"body":"chatbots had much higher accuracy."},{"startTime":1973.719,"endTime":1976.694,"body":"So ChatNetZero could answer"},{"startTime":1973.719,"endTime":1976.694,"body":"questions about like climate"},{"startTime":1976.694,"endTime":1980.294,"body":"policy a lot more accurately"},{"startTime":1976.694,"endTime":1980.294,"body":"than Gemini or ChatGPT or Coral."},{"startTime":1981.044,"endTime":1985.604,"body":"But then when we asked the experts,"},{"startTime":1981.044,"endTime":1985.604,"body":"they actually preferred the responses"},{"startTime":1985.604,"endTime":1988.314,"body":"of the generic chat bots to ChatNetZero."},{"startTime":1988.334,"endTime":1991.874,"body":"And that was because in order to"},{"startTime":1988.334,"endTime":1991.874,"body":"constrain the responses and to"},{"startTime":1991.874,"endTime":1995.884,"body":"prevent hallucination, we only"},{"startTime":1991.874,"endTime":1995.884,"body":"allowed ChatNetZero to generate"},{"startTime":1995.884,"endTime":1997.7740000000001,"body":"responses that were 150 words or less."},{"startTime":1998.354,"endTime":2002.767,"body":"And if you know, by using ChatGPT it"},{"startTime":1998.354,"endTime":2002.767,"body":"has a tendency to be really verbose."},{"startTime":2003.037,"endTime":2005.977,"body":"It has a tendency to"},{"startTime":2003.037,"endTime":2005.977,"body":"embellish on its answers."},{"startTime":2005.977,"endTime":2010.807,"body":"And so that happened to actually"},{"startTime":2005.977,"endTime":2010.807,"body":"be more preferred by the experts."},{"startTime":2010.807,"endTime":2014.557,"body":"And so they rated it and those responses"},{"startTime":2010.807,"endTime":2014.557,"body":"much higher than they did ChatNetZero."},{"startTime":2014.577,"endTime":2017.637,"body":"And that was something really"},{"startTime":2014.577,"endTime":2017.637,"body":"surprising to me and also impressed"},{"startTime":2017.637,"endTime":2021.837,"body":"to me the fact that we actually"},{"startTime":2017.637,"endTime":2021.837,"body":"are not very good as humans in"},{"startTime":2021.837,"endTime":2024.087,"body":"judging these nuances and accuracy."},{"startTime":2024.337,"endTime":2027.267,"body":"We are actually often fooled by"},{"startTime":2024.337,"endTime":2027.267,"body":"these generic large language models."},{"startTime":2027.267,"endTime":2029.457,"body":"So that was something that"},{"startTime":2027.267,"endTime":2029.457,"body":"also really surprised me."},{"startTime":2029.457,"endTime":2033.327,"body":"And then I think also the fact that"},{"startTime":2029.457,"endTime":2033.327,"body":"we're facing a new paradigm where"},{"startTime":2033.327,"endTime":2038.6570000000002,"body":"these AI models and generative AI"},{"startTime":2033.327,"endTime":2038.6570000000002,"body":"are generating information at a pace"},{"startTime":2038.6570000000002,"endTime":2040.1870000000001,"body":"that we've never experienced before."},{"startTime":2040.1870000000001,"endTime":2043.757,"body":"I mean, like every curve is exponential"},{"startTime":2040.1870000000001,"endTime":2043.757,"body":"in terms of how much more data and"},{"startTime":2043.757,"endTime":2047.347,"body":"information is being generated today,"},{"startTime":2043.757,"endTime":2047.347,"body":"than even like two or three years ago."},{"startTime":2047.347,"endTime":2050.857,"body":"I mean, it is astronomical how much"},{"startTime":2047.347,"endTime":2050.857,"body":"data is being generated, but what's"},{"startTime":2050.857,"endTime":2054.397,"body":"not happening, and I've had lots of"},{"startTime":2050.857,"endTime":2054.397,"body":"conversations with computer scientists and"},{"startTime":2054.397,"endTime":2055.897,"body":"people who are developing these models."},{"startTime":2056.3469999999998,"endTime":2058.477,"body":"We're not doing enough"},{"startTime":2056.3469999999998,"endTime":2058.477,"body":"on the, on the output."},{"startTime":2058.537,"endTime":2060.247,"body":"We're not evaluating and saying."},{"startTime":2061.052,"endTime":2065.552,"body":"Is what is being generated actually"},{"startTime":2061.052,"endTime":2065.552,"body":"accurate in producing high fidelity"},{"startTime":2065.612,"endTime":2067.112,"body":"and, and credible responses."},{"startTime":2067.412,"endTime":2070.8849999999998,"body":"And that's a huge problem because then"},{"startTime":2067.412,"endTime":2070.8849999999998,"body":"you're getting a lot of information"},{"startTime":2070.8849999999998,"endTime":2073.765,"body":"generated where frankly, as a public,"},{"startTime":2070.8849999999998,"endTime":2073.765,"body":"we don't know what's accurate."},{"startTime":2074.035,"endTime":2077.545,"body":"So there's a really great book that was"},{"startTime":2074.035,"endTime":2077.545,"body":"written last year by these Princeton"},{"startTime":2077.545,"endTime":2079.675,"body":"computer scientists called AI Snake Oil."},{"startTime":2079.855,"endTime":2083.185,"body":"And they exactly point to this problem"},{"startTime":2079.855,"endTime":2083.185,"body":"of the fact that there's a lot of snake"},{"startTime":2083.215,"endTime":2087.415,"body":"oil that's being sold by startups and"},{"startTime":2083.215,"endTime":2087.415,"body":"other companies that are claiming."},{"startTime":2087.915,"endTime":2092.145,"body":"All of this amazing application of AI and"},{"startTime":2087.915,"endTime":2092.145,"body":"it's gonna do X, Y, and Z thing and it's"},{"startTime":2092.145,"endTime":2093.555,"body":"gonna revolutionise, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":2093.945,"endTime":2098.025,"body":"But then when these companies then"},{"startTime":2093.945,"endTime":2098.025,"body":"buy into, or these, these customers"},{"startTime":2098.205,"endTime":2102.415,"body":"buy into these startups, they realise,"},{"startTime":2098.205,"endTime":2102.415,"body":"oh, in this healthcare domain,"},{"startTime":2102.415,"endTime":2104.525,"body":"it's actually not very accurate."},{"startTime":2104.525,"endTime":2107.195,"body":"It's only like 75% accurate"},{"startTime":2104.525,"endTime":2107.195,"body":"or something like that."},{"startTime":2107.435,"endTime":2111.155,"body":"And so a lot of these types of models are"},{"startTime":2107.435,"endTime":2111.155,"body":"not being tested in real world settings."},{"startTime":2111.3650000000002,"endTime":2114.425,"body":"They're only being developed in a"},{"startTime":2111.3650000000002,"endTime":2114.425,"body":"very controlled environment where"},{"startTime":2114.425,"endTime":2118.675,"body":"they're being tested and trained"},{"startTime":2114.425,"endTime":2118.675,"body":"on a very select amount of data."},{"startTime":2118.675,"endTime":2120.895,"body":"And it goes back to the original"},{"startTime":2118.675,"endTime":2120.895,"body":"part of our conversation"},{"startTime":2120.895,"endTime":2122.245,"body":"about the need for good data."},{"startTime":2122.485,"endTime":2124.225,"body":"And so there's really this disconnect."},{"startTime":2124.225,"endTime":2128.145,"body":"And so one of the things that I'm doing"},{"startTime":2124.225,"endTime":2128.145,"body":"in a current project called Claim, which"},{"startTime":2128.145,"endTime":2132.765,"body":"is Climate Leadership And AI Integrity"},{"startTime":2128.145,"endTime":2132.765,"body":"in Climate Mitigation is trying to"},{"startTime":2132.765,"endTime":2136.725,"body":"bring together people from all different"},{"startTime":2132.765,"endTime":2136.725,"body":"disciplines, from climate communication"},{"startTime":2136.725,"endTime":2139.899,"body":"specialists and behavioral psychologists"},{"startTime":2136.725,"endTime":2139.899,"body":"to really be able to understand like,"},{"startTime":2140.049,"endTime":2142.899,"body":"how do people actually perceive this"},{"startTime":2140.049,"endTime":2142.899,"body":"information that's being generated?"},{"startTime":2143.109,"endTime":2147.069,"body":"How do they decide what information is"},{"startTime":2143.109,"endTime":2147.069,"body":"credible and what, what is incredible?"},{"startTime":2147.069,"endTime":2151.934,"body":"How can these chatbots produce output"},{"startTime":2147.069,"endTime":2151.934,"body":"in a way that can help users really"},{"startTime":2151.934,"endTime":2155.984,"body":"discern what's accurate and what may"},{"startTime":2151.934,"endTime":2155.984,"body":"need their own kind of evaluation."},{"startTime":2156.204,"endTime":2159.834,"body":"And then the computer scientists, the AI"},{"startTime":2156.204,"endTime":2159.834,"body":"experts and the climate policy experts"},{"startTime":2160.164,"endTime":2163.8540000000003,"body":"in, into the same room to help really"},{"startTime":2160.164,"endTime":2163.8540000000003,"body":"think about these challenges and what"},{"startTime":2163.8540000000003,"endTime":2167.754,"body":"kinds of research efforts are needed to"},{"startTime":2163.8540000000003,"endTime":2167.754,"body":"really like break down the problem and to"},{"startTime":2167.754,"endTime":2172.464,"body":"be able to provide this type of guidance"},{"startTime":2167.754,"endTime":2172.464,"body":"and to, I think, really lift the hood and"},{"startTime":2172.464,"endTime":2175.014,"body":"to say you know, not all AI is the same."},{"startTime":2175.314,"endTime":2178.704,"body":"And we needed to be demanding these kinds"},{"startTime":2175.314,"endTime":2178.704,"body":"of transparency on the part of these"},{"startTime":2178.704,"endTime":2182.544,"body":"big tech companies that are developing"},{"startTime":2178.704,"endTime":2182.544,"body":"these and frankly, blindsiding us into"},{"startTime":2182.544,"endTime":2186.774,"body":"thinking, into, luling us into thinking"},{"startTime":2182.544,"endTime":2186.774,"body":"that, you know, every AI response is"},{"startTime":2186.774,"endTime":2189.264,"body":"like the same and that it's accurate."},{"startTime":2189.264,"endTime":2191.914,"body":"You know, I think there's a lot"},{"startTime":2189.264,"endTime":2191.914,"body":"of problems with the opacity, with"},{"startTime":2191.914,"endTime":2192.964,"body":"a lot of these kinds of models."},{"startTime":2192.964,"endTime":2195.6040000000003,"body":"So that's what we're trying to do"},{"startTime":2192.964,"endTime":2195.6040000000003,"body":"with this new project called Claim."},{"startTime":2196.839,"endTime":2202.515,"body":"And if we stare into our crystal ball,"},{"startTime":2196.839,"endTime":2202.515,"body":"what's your boldest hope for AI and"},{"startTime":2202.515,"endTime":2204.645,"body":"climate policy for the next five years?"},{"startTime":2204.695,"endTime":2208.895,"body":"Yeah, so I think my boldest hope"},{"startTime":2204.695,"endTime":2208.895,"body":"for climate policy because frankly"},{"startTime":2208.895,"endTime":2213.8,"body":"speaking, the policy world is very"},{"startTime":2208.895,"endTime":2213.8,"body":"much behind when it comes to AI."},{"startTime":2213.8,"endTime":2218.15,"body":"And you know, I don't, I don't wanna"},{"startTime":2213.8,"endTime":2218.15,"body":"offend any of my friends and colleagues"},{"startTime":2218.15,"endTime":2222.4700000000003,"body":"who work in policy institutions, but"},{"startTime":2218.15,"endTime":2222.4700000000003,"body":"this is just the fact, I think policy"},{"startTime":2222.4700000000003,"endTime":2227.51,"body":"moves at a glacial pace when it comes"},{"startTime":2222.4700000000003,"endTime":2227.51,"body":"to adopting these new technologies."},{"startTime":2227.84,"endTime":2229.4,"body":"And there's a reason for that."},{"startTime":2229.564,"endTime":2233.044,"body":"They can't be jumping on"},{"startTime":2229.564,"endTime":2233.044,"body":"every new trend that pops up."},{"startTime":2233.044,"endTime":2234.154,"body":"I mean, I think it's just."},{"startTime":2234.994,"endTime":2238.6240000000003,"body":"It is just not possible with how"},{"startTime":2234.994,"endTime":2238.6240000000003,"body":"decision making processes and"},{"startTime":2238.6240000000003,"endTime":2240.364,"body":"those kinds of timelines operate."},{"startTime":2240.814,"endTime":2245.554,"body":"But I do feel like they need the kind"},{"startTime":2240.814,"endTime":2245.554,"body":"of information to one, understand what"},{"startTime":2245.554,"endTime":2251.294,"body":"it is, how it can impact their own"},{"startTime":2245.554,"endTime":2251.294,"body":"particular processes and their own work."},{"startTime":2251.564,"endTime":2254.984,"body":"And then I think three, I think the"},{"startTime":2251.564,"endTime":2254.984,"body":"most hope is how can they leverage it to"},{"startTime":2254.984,"endTime":2260.504,"body":"actually scale the solutions at the speed"},{"startTime":2254.984,"endTime":2260.504,"body":"that's required in order to avoid the"},{"startTime":2260.504,"endTime":2262.1240000000003,"body":"most dangerous impacts of climate change."},{"startTime":2262.334,"endTime":2266.714,"body":"So my hope is that policymakers in"},{"startTime":2262.334,"endTime":2266.714,"body":"the climate change domain can get"},{"startTime":2266.714,"endTime":2270.554,"body":"up to speed quick enough, and we can"},{"startTime":2266.714,"endTime":2270.554,"body":"help them through interdisciplinary"},{"startTime":2270.554,"endTime":2274.514,"body":"collaborations really think about, okay,"},{"startTime":2270.554,"endTime":2274.514,"body":"what are the specific use cases where it"},{"startTime":2274.544,"endTime":2275.984,"body":"could actually make a huge difference?"},{"startTime":2276.134,"endTime":2279.884,"body":"I don't think that it's like we need"},{"startTime":2276.134,"endTime":2279.884,"body":"to have a what do they call like a"},{"startTime":2279.884,"endTime":2283.094,"body":"mallet, like hammering a, a nail or"},{"startTime":2279.884,"endTime":2283.094,"body":"something like, I don't think that"},{"startTime":2283.094,"endTime":2287.024,"body":"necessarily we need like this huge"},{"startTime":2283.094,"endTime":2287.024,"body":"brute force or blunt force kind of"},{"startTime":2287.024,"endTime":2289.034,"body":"tool coming in to try to do everything."},{"startTime":2289.334,"endTime":2293.984,"body":"But I do think what we need is that"},{"startTime":2289.334,"endTime":2293.984,"body":"we need to work together with policy"},{"startTime":2293.984,"endTime":2297.074,"body":"communities to think about, well,"},{"startTime":2293.984,"endTime":2297.074,"body":"what are the specific use cases"},{"startTime":2297.074,"endTime":2300.194,"body":"where it could actually be really"},{"startTime":2297.074,"endTime":2300.194,"body":"useful and really transformative and"},{"startTime":2300.194,"endTime":2301.664,"body":"let's focus on making that happen."},{"startTime":2301.664,"endTime":2303.014,"body":"So that's like really my hope."},{"startTime":2303.254,"endTime":2306.524,"body":"And what we're trying to do in this"},{"startTime":2303.254,"endTime":2306.524,"body":"Claim project is bringing together"},{"startTime":2306.524,"endTime":2309.734,"body":"those policymakers, and I think"},{"startTime":2306.524,"endTime":2309.734,"body":"there's some really easy low hanging"},{"startTime":2309.734,"endTime":2311.264,"body":"fruit where that can be done."},{"startTime":2311.534,"endTime":2316.544,"body":"So we just finished in 2023, the first"},{"startTime":2311.534,"endTime":2316.544,"body":"global stock take for the Paris Agreement."},{"startTime":2316.8740000000003,"endTime":2321.914,"body":"That was a three year long process in"},{"startTime":2316.8740000000003,"endTime":2321.914,"body":"between these five year cycles where"},{"startTime":2322.484,"endTime":2326.534,"body":"governments have to submit what they've"},{"startTime":2322.484,"endTime":2326.534,"body":"done on climate change, what progress"},{"startTime":2326.534,"endTime":2330.254,"body":"they've made, what challenges they face,"},{"startTime":2326.534,"endTime":2330.254,"body":"what they hope to be doing in the future."},{"startTime":2330.494,"endTime":2334.8740000000003,"body":"And there were literally, I think,"},{"startTime":2330.494,"endTime":2334.8740000000003,"body":"more than 300,000 pages of documents"},{"startTime":2334.8740000000003,"endTime":2337.994,"body":"that were submitted in the global"},{"startTime":2334.8740000000003,"endTime":2337.994,"body":"stock take process from companies."},{"startTime":2338.204,"endTime":2341.744,"body":"That's not even including all of the"},{"startTime":2338.204,"endTime":2341.744,"body":"non-party stakeholders, so companies,"},{"startTime":2341.744,"endTime":2344.384,"body":"NGOs, individuals, academics."},{"startTime":2344.564,"endTime":2349.634,"body":"We could also submit our own views"},{"startTime":2344.564,"endTime":2349.634,"body":"on the Paris Agreement and climate"},{"startTime":2349.634,"endTime":2352.994,"body":"policy and, and where we stand"},{"startTime":2349.634,"endTime":2352.994,"body":"with respect to climate action."},{"startTime":2353.294,"endTime":2357.8540000000003,"body":"So the UN was faced with how do I"},{"startTime":2353.294,"endTime":2357.8540000000003,"body":"evaluate all of these documents?"},{"startTime":2358.1240000000003,"endTime":2360.3740000000003,"body":"And the thing is, is"},{"startTime":2358.1240000000003,"endTime":2360.3740000000003,"body":"that we have these tools."},{"startTime":2360.3740000000003,"endTime":2363.524,"body":"We have large language models that"},{"startTime":2360.3740000000003,"endTime":2363.524,"body":"have been around for decades, and"},{"startTime":2363.524,"endTime":2367.094,"body":"now we have these chat tools that"},{"startTime":2363.524,"endTime":2367.094,"body":"can help make the analysis and"},{"startTime":2367.094,"endTime":2368.774,"body":"the synthesis of that much easier."},{"startTime":2368.984,"endTime":2373.664,"body":"So to me, that's a very low hanging fruit"},{"startTime":2368.984,"endTime":2373.664,"body":"use case where we could easily take all of"},{"startTime":2373.664,"endTime":2375.824,"body":"these documents that are being submitted."},{"startTime":2376.204,"endTime":2381.814,"body":"Train a model that has been fine tuned for"},{"startTime":2376.204,"endTime":2381.814,"body":"the specifics of climate change, and then"},{"startTime":2381.814,"endTime":2387.004,"body":"allow for policymakers to very quickly"},{"startTime":2381.814,"endTime":2387.004,"body":"synthesise that information to understand,"},{"startTime":2387.034,"endTime":2390.484,"body":"okay, well what are some common actions"},{"startTime":2387.034,"endTime":2390.484,"body":"that governments have been taking?"},{"startTime":2390.694,"endTime":2391.684,"body":"But where are some gaps?"},{"startTime":2391.684,"endTime":2394.654,"body":"Like where are, what topics"},{"startTime":2391.684,"endTime":2394.654,"body":"are less frequently discussed?"},{"startTime":2394.864,"endTime":2396.8740000000003,"body":"Where actions less frequently discussed?"},{"startTime":2397.114,"endTime":2399.334,"body":"And then where is progress"},{"startTime":2397.114,"endTime":2399.334,"body":"really being made?"},{"startTime":2399.334,"endTime":2402.004,"body":"How can I try to make sense"},{"startTime":2399.334,"endTime":2402.004,"body":"and aggregate all of that?"},{"startTime":2402.244,"endTime":2404.914,"body":"And then I think that would be"},{"startTime":2402.244,"endTime":2404.914,"body":"a much more efficient process."},{"startTime":2405.1240000000003,"endTime":2408.984,"body":"And in the learning document that"},{"startTime":2405.1240000000003,"endTime":2408.984,"body":"they submitted six months after the"},{"startTime":2408.984,"endTime":2412.804,"body":"global stock take ended in December,"},{"startTime":2408.984,"endTime":2412.804,"body":"2023, they did have, they had just"},{"startTime":2412.804,"endTime":2414.934,"body":"one sentence that mentioned AI."},{"startTime":2414.994,"endTime":2418.594,"body":"There was one sentence out of like a,"},{"startTime":2414.994,"endTime":2418.594,"body":"I think it was like a 20 page document"},{"startTime":2418.594,"endTime":2420.994,"body":"or something, just synthesising"},{"startTime":2418.594,"endTime":2420.994,"body":"lessons learned and they said, yeah,"},{"startTime":2420.994,"endTime":2423.634,"body":"we should look into the possibility"},{"startTime":2420.994,"endTime":2423.634,"body":"of AI to try to help with that."},{"startTime":2424.534,"endTime":2429.334,"body":"So like, it was like one line, but"},{"startTime":2424.534,"endTime":2429.334,"body":"I think a very important one line"},{"startTime":2429.334,"endTime":2432.904,"body":"because since then we have seen"},{"startTime":2429.334,"endTime":2432.904,"body":"these tools just really take off."},{"startTime":2432.904,"endTime":2437.877,"body":"And so my hope is that we can help"},{"startTime":2432.904,"endTime":2437.877,"body":"to identify those particular pain"},{"startTime":2437.877,"endTime":2442.7670000000003,"body":"points for them and where it's very"},{"startTime":2437.877,"endTime":2442.7670000000003,"body":"challenging for us as humans given"},{"startTime":2442.7670000000003,"endTime":2446.757,"body":"a short timeframe to be able to"},{"startTime":2442.7670000000003,"endTime":2446.757,"body":"synthesise all this kinda information."},{"startTime":2446.757,"endTime":2450.5370000000003,"body":"And we're kind of facing that with the"},{"startTime":2446.757,"endTime":2450.5370000000003,"body":"IPCC right now as well, where we have"},{"startTime":2450.5370000000003,"endTime":2454.437,"body":"to then survey the state of literature,"},{"startTime":2450.5370000000003,"endTime":2454.437,"body":"the of both peer reviewed and also gray"},{"startTime":2454.437,"endTime":2458.337,"body":"literature to try to identify Okay,"},{"startTime":2454.437,"endTime":2458.337,"body":"like what's been done, what is the"},{"startTime":2458.337,"endTime":2461.907,"body":"state of knowledge on these various"},{"startTime":2458.337,"endTime":2461.907,"body":"climate related topics, and then how"},{"startTime":2461.907,"endTime":2466.717,"body":"can we then appropriately distill the"},{"startTime":2461.907,"endTime":2466.717,"body":"lessons from that and then point to,"},{"startTime":2466.717,"endTime":2470.077,"body":"and then give that to policy makers"},{"startTime":2466.717,"endTime":2470.077,"body":"to say, okay, these are, here's clear"},{"startTime":2470.077,"endTime":2473.887,"body":"indications from the evidence of what can"},{"startTime":2470.077,"endTime":2473.887,"body":"be done and, and what needs to happen in"},{"startTime":2473.887,"endTime":2475.507,"body":"order for us to tackle climate change."},{"startTime":2475.837,"endTime":2477.137,"body":"So to me, that's, that's my hope."},{"startTime":2478.457,"endTime":2478.827,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2479.347,"endTime":2485.2870000000003,"body":"And, a left field question for you, if"},{"startTime":2479.347,"endTime":2485.2870000000003,"body":"you could have any person or character,"},{"startTime":2485.947,"endTime":2492.677,"body":"alive or dead, real or fictional as a"},{"startTime":2485.947,"endTime":2492.677,"body":"champion for the use of AI and data in the"},{"startTime":2492.677,"endTime":2494.772,"body":"climate space, who would it be and why?"},{"startTime":2495.827,"endTime":2498.737,"body":"I know you're gonna ask me this question,"},{"startTime":2495.827,"endTime":2498.737,"body":"and to be honest, I did not prepare."},{"startTime":2502.847,"endTime":2504.477,"body":"This a really great question."},{"startTime":2504.507,"endTime":2509.2670000000003,"body":"I mean, for me, one of my climate heroes"},{"startTime":2504.507,"endTime":2509.2670000000003,"body":"has always been Christiana Figueres."},{"startTime":2509.2670000000003,"endTime":2513.077,"body":"She was the Secretariat of the UN"},{"startTime":2509.2670000000003,"endTime":2513.077,"body":"Framework Convention on Climate"},{"startTime":2513.077,"endTime":2517.457,"body":"Change, who oversaw the lead up to"},{"startTime":2513.077,"endTime":2517.457,"body":"the Paris Agreement, and then was"},{"startTime":2517.457,"endTime":2521.987,"body":"really instrumental in shepherding"},{"startTime":2517.457,"endTime":2521.987,"body":"the, the Paris Agreement to its"},{"startTime":2521.987,"endTime":2524.117,"body":"successful conclusion in 2015."},{"startTime":2524.5370000000003,"endTime":2527.597,"body":"So I know she's very excited about"},{"startTime":2524.5370000000003,"endTime":2527.597,"body":"data and she ended up being like"},{"startTime":2527.597,"endTime":2529.127,"body":"one of the big data champions."},{"startTime":2529.127,"endTime":2532.907,"body":"And actually it was really cool to see for"},{"startTime":2529.127,"endTime":2532.907,"body":"someone who's been working in the space."},{"startTime":2532.907,"endTime":2535.5170000000003,"body":"You know, my job that I mentioned"},{"startTime":2532.907,"endTime":2535.5170000000003,"body":"at WRI, working on the Greenhouse"},{"startTime":2535.5170000000003,"endTime":2537.497,"body":"Gas Protocol, that was in 2006."},{"startTime":2537.887,"endTime":2541.367,"body":"And I remember when I started the job,"},{"startTime":2537.887,"endTime":2541.367,"body":"I was like, I wanna make data relevant."},{"startTime":2541.367,"endTime":2543.137,"body":"I want to get people excited about data."},{"startTime":2543.317,"endTime":2544.367,"body":"And frankly, that was hard."},{"startTime":2544.367,"endTime":2547.967,"body":"I mean, you would walk into a room of"},{"startTime":2544.367,"endTime":2547.967,"body":"policymakers or business people and you"},{"startTime":2547.967,"endTime":2550.937,"body":"would say the word data and statistics"},{"startTime":2547.967,"endTime":2550.937,"body":"and their eyes would kind of glaze over."},{"startTime":2551.2670000000003,"endTime":2553.937,"body":"And I think one of the things"},{"startTime":2551.2670000000003,"endTime":2553.937,"body":"that Christiana did was to also"},{"startTime":2553.937,"endTime":2557.897,"body":"get people excited about data and"},{"startTime":2553.937,"endTime":2557.897,"body":"recognising the value and just having"},{"startTime":2558.407,"endTime":2560.027,"body":"data together in the same place."},{"startTime":2560.027,"endTime":2564.317,"body":"And this is still an argument that I have"},{"startTime":2560.027,"endTime":2564.317,"body":"to make all the time in academic settings."},{"startTime":2564.317,"endTime":2568.822,"body":"I mean, I recently, a couple months ago"},{"startTime":2564.317,"endTime":2568.822,"body":"a a colleague at another institution"},{"startTime":2568.852,"endTime":2570.652,"body":"basically talked down on my work."},{"startTime":2570.652,"endTime":2573.622,"body":"I mean, we had dinner and he was like,"},{"startTime":2570.652,"endTime":2573.622,"body":"yeah, your work is, I mean, he was saying"},{"startTime":2573.622,"endTime":2576.802,"body":"this in, in so many words, but your work"},{"startTime":2573.622,"endTime":2576.802,"body":"is not meaningful because it's just data."},{"startTime":2577.282,"endTime":2579.952,"body":"And you know, like, why is it"},{"startTime":2577.282,"endTime":2579.952,"body":"that data would have this kind of"},{"startTime":2579.952,"endTime":2583.9120000000003,"body":"dirty reputation in an academic"},{"startTime":2579.952,"endTime":2583.9120000000003,"body":"or a policy or a business setting?"},{"startTime":2583.9120000000003,"endTime":2587.312,"body":"It's like, no, like it's actually"},{"startTime":2583.9120000000003,"endTime":2587.312,"body":"like I wanna get people excited."},{"startTime":2587.312,"endTime":2588.062,"body":"'cause we need it."},{"startTime":2588.062,"endTime":2588.722,"body":"I mean, we need it."},{"startTime":2589.352,"endTime":2593.1620000000003,"body":"And to do your fancy econometric"},{"startTime":2589.352,"endTime":2593.1620000000003,"body":"models or to do your fancy AI,"},{"startTime":2593.1620000000003,"endTime":2594.9320000000002,"body":"we have to have basic data."},{"startTime":2594.9320000000002,"endTime":2596.4320000000002,"body":"And Christiana recognised that."},{"startTime":2596.4320000000002,"endTime":2599.992,"body":"And so they, her team commissioned"},{"startTime":2596.4320000000002,"endTime":2599.992,"body":"me in the lead up to the Paris"},{"startTime":2599.992,"endTime":2604.252,"body":"agreement to actually help them"},{"startTime":2599.992,"endTime":2604.252,"body":"make sense of the, the emergence of"},{"startTime":2604.252,"endTime":2606.832,"body":"business and non-state actor data."},{"startTime":2606.832,"endTime":2609.4120000000003,"body":"And they wanted me to help make"},{"startTime":2606.832,"endTime":2609.4120000000003,"body":"sense of it and try to collate"},{"startTime":2609.4120000000003,"endTime":2611.782,"body":"all the data together 'cause"},{"startTime":2609.4120000000003,"endTime":2611.782,"body":"it had never been done before."},{"startTime":2612.112,"endTime":2616.192,"body":"And they invited me to then actually"},{"startTime":2612.112,"endTime":2616.192,"body":"present that information in Paris at"},{"startTime":2616.192,"endTime":2620.3920000000003,"body":"one of the UNF ccc press conferences"},{"startTime":2616.192,"endTime":2620.3920000000003,"body":"where they normally don't invite"},{"startTime":2620.3920000000003,"endTime":2622.222,"body":"civilians because they were worried."},{"startTime":2622.222,"endTime":2622.852,"body":"They were worried."},{"startTime":2622.852,"endTime":2625.222,"body":"And they thought, okay, well"},{"startTime":2622.852,"endTime":2625.222,"body":"governments cannot agree."},{"startTime":2625.222,"endTime":2628.312,"body":"And this is like"},{"startTime":2625.222,"endTime":2628.312,"body":"Copenhagen Redux part two."},{"startTime":2628.487,"endTime":2631.097,"body":"Then we need to have something"},{"startTime":2628.487,"endTime":2631.097,"body":"that we can fall back on."},{"startTime":2631.097,"endTime":2635.2670000000003,"body":"And that's like really trying to explain"},{"startTime":2631.097,"endTime":2635.2670000000003,"body":"the extent of all of the businesses,"},{"startTime":2635.2670000000003,"endTime":2638.207,"body":"all of the subnational governments,"},{"startTime":2635.2670000000003,"endTime":2638.207,"body":"all of the financial institutions"},{"startTime":2638.387,"endTime":2642.197,"body":"that are frankly in this and are"},{"startTime":2638.387,"endTime":2642.197,"body":"supporting an ambitious climate outcome."},{"startTime":2642.227,"endTime":2645.227,"body":"And so for people to talk down"},{"startTime":2642.227,"endTime":2645.227,"body":"and say, oh, your work is only"},{"startTime":2645.227,"endTime":2646.667,"body":"data, it's not meaningful."},{"startTime":2646.667,"endTime":2649.637,"body":"You know, that was just"},{"startTime":2646.667,"endTime":2649.637,"body":"frustrating and frankly not true."},{"startTime":2649.637,"endTime":2654.497,"body":"And so I think having like a champion"},{"startTime":2649.637,"endTime":2654.497,"body":"like Christiana who commands a lot of"},{"startTime":2654.497,"endTime":2659.177,"body":"respect in the climate policy domain and"},{"startTime":2654.497,"endTime":2659.177,"body":"she has a lot of credibility and she knows"},{"startTime":2659.177,"endTime":2660.92,"body":"the hard work that  needs to be done."},{"startTime":2660.92,"endTime":2664.25,"body":"I think that would be really huge"},{"startTime":2660.92,"endTime":2664.25,"body":"if she were to like give a stamp"},{"startTime":2664.25,"endTime":2668.06,"body":"of approval and to say, Data Driven"},{"startTime":2664.25,"endTime":2668.06,"body":"EnviroLab I think what you're doing is"},{"startTime":2668.06,"endTime":2672.77,"body":"really great and you can keep chipping"},{"startTime":2668.06,"endTime":2672.77,"body":"away and policy policymakers listen"},{"startTime":2672.77,"endTime":2674.66,"body":"up because this is really important."},{"startTime":2674.81,"endTime":2675.7400000000002,"body":"Work with this woman."},{"startTime":2675.7400000000002,"endTime":2678.71,"body":"I think that would be, that would be"},{"startTime":2675.7400000000002,"endTime":2678.71,"body":"a dream because she's kind of been"},{"startTime":2678.71,"endTime":2681.37,"body":"in the trenches in the policy world."},{"startTime":2681.37,"endTime":2684.79,"body":"And so she knows yeah, the ins and"},{"startTime":2681.37,"endTime":2684.79,"body":"outs and, and the challenges and"},{"startTime":2684.79,"endTime":2688.12,"body":"the real limitations, but then she"},{"startTime":2684.79,"endTime":2688.12,"body":"also knows the potential of data."},{"startTime":2688.12,"endTime":2690.91,"body":"So for me, I think that would"},{"startTime":2688.12,"endTime":2690.91,"body":"be one person that I would"},{"startTime":2690.91,"endTime":2691.9900000000002,"body":"love to have in my corner."},{"startTime":2693.0750000000003,"endTime":2694.55,"body":"Fantastic, fantastic."},{"startTime":2695.15,"endTime":2698.7400000000002,"body":"Angel, people would like to know more"},{"startTime":2695.15,"endTime":2698.7400000000002,"body":"about yourself or any of the things"},{"startTime":2698.7400000000002,"endTime":2701.39,"body":"we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"startTime":2698.7400000000002,"endTime":2701.39,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"startTime":2701.89,"endTime":2706.27,"body":"The number one place, place would be our"},{"startTime":2701.89,"endTime":2706.27,"body":"website, and that's data driven lab.org."},{"startTime":2706.6,"endTime":2709.96,"body":"So we have links to all of these other"},{"startTime":2706.6,"endTime":2709.96,"body":"projects that I mentioned, the Net"},{"startTime":2709.96,"endTime":2713.16,"body":"Zero Tracker, ChatNDC ChatNetZero."},{"startTime":2713.18,"endTime":2716.9900000000002,"body":"We also have a link to all of our"},{"startTime":2713.18,"endTime":2716.9900000000002,"body":"publications, a bunch of white papers"},{"startTime":2716.9900000000002,"endTime":2720.32,"body":"and peer reviewed publications, and"},{"startTime":2716.9900000000002,"endTime":2720.32,"body":"a lot of our data sets as well that"},{"startTime":2720.32,"endTime":2721.82,"body":"underpin a lot of this research."},{"startTime":2721.82,"endTime":2723.56,"body":"So I would encourage everyone to go there."},{"startTime":2724.855,"endTime":2725.495,"body":"Tremendous."},{"startTime":2725.495,"endTime":2726.015,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":2726.015,"endTime":2727.26,"body":"Angel, that's been really interesting."},{"startTime":2727.26,"endTime":2729.125,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"startTime":2727.26,"endTime":2729.125,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"startTime":2729.44,"endTime":2730.46,"body":"Thanks so much for having me."},{"startTime":2730.46,"endTime":2731.75,"body":"This was a great conversation."},{"startTime":2732.467,"endTime":2734.337,"body":"Okay, we've come to the end of the show."},{"startTime":2735.0570000000002,"endTime":2736.167,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"startTime":2737.027,"endTime":2741.177,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"startTime":2737.027,"endTime":2741.177,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"startTime":2741.187,"endTime":2745.097,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"startTime":2745.347,"endTime":2748.827,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"startTime":2749.397,"endTime":2753.137,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"startTime":2749.397,"endTime":2753.137,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"startTime":2753.157,"endTime":2757.637,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"startTime":2753.157,"endTime":2757.637,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"startTime":2758.2670000000003,"endTime":2761.227,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"startTime":2758.2670000000003,"endTime":2761.227,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"startTime":2761.427,"endTime":2763.957,"body":"It really does help new"},{"startTime":2761.427,"endTime":2763.957,"body":"people to find the show."},{"startTime":2765.047,"endTime":2765.497,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":2766.167,"endTime":2767.087,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}