{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.766,"endTime":9.006,"body":"Data center operators are quite"},{"startTime":3.766,"endTime":9.006,"body":"innovative, and quite aggressive at"},{"startTime":9.006,"endTime":11.946,"body":"driving out every watt of waste energy."},{"startTime":12.246,"endTime":14.946,"body":"And that's really important because"},{"startTime":12.246,"endTime":14.946,"body":"just because it's renewable energy"},{"startTime":15.246,"endTime":16.326,"body":"doesn't mean you should waste it."},{"startTime":16.986,"endTime":20.516,"body":"Good morning, good afternoon, or good"},{"startTime":16.986,"endTime":20.516,"body":"evening, wherever you are in the world."},{"startTime":20.876,"endTime":25.256,"body":"Welcome to episode 224 of the"},{"startTime":20.876,"endTime":25.256,"body":"Climate Confident Podcast, the go-to"},{"startTime":25.256,"endTime":28.946,"body":"show for best practices in climate"},{"startTime":25.256,"endTime":28.946,"body":"emission reductions and removals."},{"startTime":29.426,"endTime":32.786,"body":"I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and if"},{"startTime":29.426,"endTime":32.786,"body":"you haven't already, be sure to follow"},{"startTime":32.786,"endTime":36.926,"body":"this podcast in your podcast, app of"},{"startTime":32.786,"endTime":36.926,"body":"choice, so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":37.901,"endTime":40.631,"body":"Before we get going, a huge thank"},{"startTime":37.901,"endTime":40.631,"body":"you to this podcast's, incredible"},{"startTime":40.631,"endTime":46.511,"body":"supporters, Jerry Sweeney, Andreas"},{"startTime":40.631,"endTime":46.511,"body":"Werner, Steven Carroll, and Roger Arnold."},{"startTime":46.991,"endTime":50.321,"body":"Your backing helps keep this"},{"startTime":46.991,"endTime":50.321,"body":"podcast going and I truly appreciate"},{"startTime":50.501,"endTime":51.401,"body":"each and every one of you."},{"startTime":52.235,"endTime":55.295,"body":"If you get value from this podcast"},{"startTime":52.235,"endTime":55.295,"body":"and you'd like to help me continue it,"},{"startTime":55.666,"endTime":58.636,"body":"you can support the show as well for"},{"startTime":55.666,"endTime":58.636,"body":"as little as three euros or dollars a"},{"startTime":58.636,"endTime":61.936,"body":"month, which is less than the cost of"},{"startTime":58.636,"endTime":61.936,"body":"a cup of coffee, you just have to click"},{"startTime":61.936,"endTime":68.056,"body":"on the support link in the show notes"},{"startTime":61.936,"endTime":68.056,"body":"or visit tiny url.com/climate pod."},{"startTime":68.993,"endTime":73.613,"body":"Now today's guest is someone who's seen"},{"startTime":68.993,"endTime":73.613,"body":"the inside of data centers from every"},{"startTime":73.613,"endTime":79.313,"body":"angle, from construction to operations,"},{"startTime":73.613,"endTime":79.313,"body":"from grid balancing to AI innovation."},{"startTime":80.166,"endTime":82.806,"body":"Ciaran Flanagan doesn't"},{"startTime":80.166,"endTime":82.806,"body":"just work in data centers."},{"startTime":83.016,"endTime":86.646,"body":"He helps shape how they're built"},{"startTime":83.016,"endTime":86.646,"body":"and run and how they fit into a"},{"startTime":86.646,"endTime":88.236,"body":"more sustainable energy future."},{"startTime":88.986,"endTime":92.796,"body":"With decades of experience advising"},{"startTime":88.986,"endTime":92.796,"body":"operators, investors, and policy makers,"},{"startTime":93.066,"endTime":97.746,"body":"he's become a trusted voice on how data"},{"startTime":93.066,"endTime":97.746,"body":"infrastructure can drive not only business"},{"startTime":97.746,"endTime":100.026,"body":"growth, but also climate progress."},{"startTime":100.731,"endTime":105.171,"body":"In our chat today, we'll unpack how"},{"startTime":100.731,"endTime":105.171,"body":"data centers have become key players"},{"startTime":105.171,"endTime":109.041,"body":"in decarbonizing the grid, why digital"},{"startTime":105.171,"endTime":109.041,"body":"twins are rewriting the rules of"},{"startTime":109.041,"endTime":114.731,"body":"design and how AI is both a challenge"},{"startTime":109.041,"endTime":114.731,"body":"and an opportunity in this space."},{"startTime":115.651,"endTime":120.276,"body":"But before that, in the coming weeks, I'll"},{"startTime":115.651,"endTime":120.276,"body":"be speaking with Stuart Thompson, who's"},{"startTime":120.276,"endTime":126.546,"body":"president of ABB Electrification Services,"},{"startTime":120.276,"endTime":126.546,"body":"Frank McGuire, who's VP Insights, Strategy"},{"startTime":126.546,"endTime":131.736,"body":"and Sustainability for Sharethrough"},{"startTime":126.546,"endTime":131.736,"body":"Kanika Chandaria, who's climate lead for"},{"startTime":131.736,"endTime":137.406,"body":"Agreena, and Ori, who's second name I'm"},{"startTime":131.736,"endTime":137.406,"body":"not going to try and pronounce right now,"},{"startTime":138.096,"endTime":141.066,"body":"who's the co-founder and CCO of Giga Blue."},{"startTime":142.236,"endTime":145.566,"body":"Now back to today's show, and"},{"startTime":142.236,"endTime":145.566,"body":"as I mentioned, my special"},{"startTime":145.566,"endTime":146.476,"body":"guest today is Ciaran."},{"startTime":147.016,"endTime":148.626,"body":"Ciaran, welcome to the podcast."},{"startTime":148.626,"endTime":150.276,"body":"Would you like to introduce yourself?"},{"startTime":150.728,"endTime":151.628,"body":"Hey, good morning, Tom."},{"startTime":151.688,"endTime":151.988,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":151.988,"endTime":153.488,"body":"and, And thanks for the opportunity."},{"startTime":153.918,"endTime":155.178,"body":"My name's Ciaran Flanagan."},{"startTime":155.278,"endTime":158.308,"body":"And I run the global data"},{"startTime":155.278,"endTime":158.308,"body":"center business for Siemens."},{"startTime":158.648,"endTime":160.475,"body":"Talking to you this morning"},{"startTime":158.648,"endTime":160.475,"body":"from Dublin, Ireland."},{"startTime":161.155,"endTime":161.455,"body":"to Great"},{"startTime":162.275,"endTime":162.805,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":162.805,"endTime":163.625,"body":"Another Irish man."},{"startTime":163.925,"endTime":165.715,"body":"Love to, love to have it"},{"startTime":165.965,"endTime":167.435,"body":"Don't have enough Irish"},{"startTime":165.965,"endTime":167.435,"body":"people on the podcast."},{"startTime":167.435,"endTime":169.045,"body":"So welcome."},{"startTime":169.165,"endTime":169.965,"body":"We'll do our best."},{"startTime":169.965,"endTime":170.895,"body":"We'll do our best, Tom."},{"startTime":172.335,"endTime":177.065,"body":"Super, uh, Ciaran,"},{"startTime":172.335,"endTime":177.065,"body":"Siemens and data centers."},{"startTime":177.065,"endTime":178.545,"body":"And you said data center business."},{"startTime":178.545,"endTime":181.845,"body":"So it's not that you're running"},{"startTime":178.545,"endTime":181.845,"body":"the Siemens data centers."},{"startTime":181.845,"endTime":185.465,"body":"It's that you're running a data"},{"startTime":181.845,"endTime":185.465,"body":"center business that Siemens operates."},{"startTime":185.465,"endTime":189.355,"body":"So interesting, because if I go"},{"startTime":185.465,"endTime":189.355,"body":"to my kitchen now, know, I have a"},{"startTime":190.215,"endTime":191.865,"body":"dishwasher, which is made by Siemens."},{"startTime":191.905,"endTime":194.005,"body":"I have a hob that's made by Siemens."},{"startTime":194.025,"endTime":197.275,"body":"I have a fridge that's made by"},{"startTime":194.025,"endTime":197.275,"body":"Siemens and I've had guests on the"},{"startTime":197.275,"endTime":201.065,"body":"show before from Siemens who do"},{"startTime":197.275,"endTime":201.065,"body":"things like they make car chargers"},{"startTime":201.085,"endTime":206.685,"body":"and things to make buildings run more"},{"startTime":201.085,"endTime":206.685,"body":"efficiently, the smart infrastructure."},{"startTime":207.315,"endTime":210.685,"body":"So what is it that Siemens"},{"startTime":207.315,"endTime":210.685,"body":"are doing for data centers?"},{"startTime":211.423,"endTime":213.823,"body":"Great question, Tom, and a"},{"startTime":211.423,"endTime":213.823,"body":"question I'm very often asked."},{"startTime":213.823,"endTime":219.293,"body":"We're essentially a technology"},{"startTime":213.823,"endTime":219.293,"body":"provider to all of the major and"},{"startTime":219.293,"endTime":222.443,"body":"mid-market and even smaller data"},{"startTime":219.293,"endTime":222.443,"body":"center operators around the world."},{"startTime":222.923,"endTime":225.983,"body":"So when we think about the technology"},{"startTime":222.923,"endTime":225.983,"body":"we provide, we provide a lot of"},{"startTime":225.983,"endTime":230.033,"body":"the electrification or the power"},{"startTime":225.983,"endTime":230.033,"body":"delivery systems for our customers."},{"startTime":230.443,"endTime":233.743,"body":"We provide a lot of safety"},{"startTime":230.443,"endTime":233.743,"body":"and security systems for our"},{"startTime":233.743,"endTime":234.793,"body":"customers around the world."},{"startTime":235.073,"endTime":240.113,"body":"And also quite interestingly for me, at"},{"startTime":235.073,"endTime":240.113,"body":"least we also do quite a bit on software."},{"startTime":240.363,"endTime":244.273,"body":"We do a lot of the control systems, the"},{"startTime":240.363,"endTime":244.273,"body":"automation systems that our customers"},{"startTime":244.273,"endTime":248.616,"body":"use to digitise their data center"},{"startTime":244.273,"endTime":248.616,"body":"operations and to run them efficiently."},{"startTime":248.946,"endTime":253.038,"body":"So you would call us a technology"},{"startTime":248.946,"endTime":253.038,"body":"provider in the data center value chain."},{"startTime":254.088,"endTime":254.508,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":254.958,"endTime":260.018,"body":"And full disclosure for people"},{"startTime":254.958,"endTime":260.018,"body":"listening, I come from a data"},{"startTime":260.018,"endTime":261.728,"body":"center background myself."},{"startTime":262.046,"endTime":268.993,"body":"I was involved in the development of a"},{"startTime":262.046,"endTime":268.993,"body":"data center in Ireland in Cork back 2006"},{"startTime":268.993,"endTime":271.658,"body":"to 2008 called Cork Internet Exchange."},{"startTime":271.658,"endTime":276.283,"body":"That data center is still in operation,"},{"startTime":271.658,"endTime":276.283,"body":"although I'm no longer associated with it."},{"startTime":277.014,"endTime":281.334,"body":"So I know a little bit about data"},{"startTime":277.014,"endTime":281.334,"body":"centers from that, but maybe not everyone"},{"startTime":281.334,"endTime":287.554,"body":"listening would know as much about data"},{"startTime":281.334,"endTime":287.554,"body":"centers, Ciaran, as you and I. So maybe"},{"startTime":288.194,"endTime":295.034,"body":"give us a quick 101 on data centers"},{"startTime":288.194,"endTime":295.034,"body":"in Ireland, globally, and set a bit"},{"startTime":295.034,"endTime":301.774,"body":"of context as well around why Ireland"},{"startTime":295.034,"endTime":301.774,"body":"is such a particular case because from"},{"startTime":301.774,"endTime":307.094,"body":"recollection, Ireland's, well, from"},{"startTime":301.774,"endTime":307.094,"body":"recollection, Ireland is a small country,"},{"startTime":307.594,"endTime":309.344,"body":"roughly 5 million people on the island."},{"startTime":309.849,"endTime":313.209,"body":"And there are a lot of data centers"},{"startTime":309.849,"endTime":313.209,"body":"in Ireland because a lot of technology"},{"startTime":313.209,"endTime":316.279,"body":"companies have their global headquarter,"},{"startTime":313.209,"endTime":316.279,"body":"their European headquarters, at least"},{"startTime":316.619,"endTime":320.899,"body":"in Ireland, that have big data centers"},{"startTime":316.619,"endTime":320.899,"body":"that run out of Ireland and consequently,"},{"startTime":320.989,"endTime":327.739,"body":"data centers take up probably around 25"},{"startTime":320.989,"endTime":327.739,"body":"percent of the energy market in Ireland,"},{"startTime":327.759,"endTime":332.659,"body":"which is way outsized compared to how"},{"startTime":327.759,"endTime":332.659,"body":"much it takes in most other countries"},{"startTime":332.909,"endTime":337.044,"body":"and, as a consequence it's become a bit"},{"startTime":332.909,"endTime":337.044,"body":"of a lightning rod issue in the country."},{"startTime":337.374,"endTime":339.774,"body":"So maybe set a bit of context there."},{"startTime":339.774,"endTime":342.404,"body":"Talk about data centres, set a bit"},{"startTime":339.774,"endTime":342.404,"body":"of context around the Irish case, and"},{"startTime":342.404,"endTime":344.084,"body":"then we'll, we'll move out to global."},{"startTime":344.999,"endTime":345.779,"body":"sure, sure."},{"startTime":345.939,"endTime":349.269,"body":"So let, let's set a bit of context on"},{"startTime":345.939,"endTime":349.269,"body":"data center for, for maybe some, some of"},{"startTime":349.269,"endTime":350.649,"body":"the audience that aren't that familiar."},{"startTime":350.889,"endTime":353.035,"body":"And I, I'll try to be,"},{"startTime":350.889,"endTime":353.035,"body":"deliberately facetious."},{"startTime":353.035,"endTime":354.655,"body":"So when I think about data centers."},{"startTime":355.015,"endTime":356.815,"body":"I think about a sausage machine, right?"},{"startTime":356.815,"endTime":361.225,"body":"I think about data and electricity"},{"startTime":356.815,"endTime":361.225,"body":"going in and services coming out."},{"startTime":361.225,"endTime":365.915,"body":"And,  essentially, Tom, a data"},{"startTime":361.225,"endTime":365.915,"body":"center's raw material is, is data."},{"startTime":366.12,"endTime":367.385,"body":"And and it's electricity."},{"startTime":367.385,"endTime":371.942,"body":"And in essence, a data center"},{"startTime":367.385,"endTime":371.942,"body":"is a building that provides the"},{"startTime":371.942,"endTime":376.132,"body":"controlled environment to allow"},{"startTime":371.942,"endTime":376.132,"body":"that sausage machine to work, right?"},{"startTime":376.137,"endTime":377.602,"body":"Let's just call it that for the moment."},{"startTime":378.122,"endTime":384.277,"body":"It gives the operator the cloud provider,"},{"startTime":378.122,"endTime":384.277,"body":"whoever it is a very specific environment"},{"startTime":384.277,"endTime":388.297,"body":"with reliable power, reliable cooling"},{"startTime":384.277,"endTime":388.297,"body":"and reliable environmental control."},{"startTime":388.297,"endTime":389.347,"body":"So that that's it."},{"startTime":389.347,"endTime":391.147,"body":"In a nutshell, that's"},{"startTime":389.347,"endTime":391.147,"body":"what the data center is."},{"startTime":391.887,"endTime":394.557,"body":"Now, you asked the question"},{"startTime":391.887,"endTime":394.557,"body":"specifically about Ireland."},{"startTime":395.07,"endTime":395.91,"body":"Obviously, I'm Irish."},{"startTime":395.91,"endTime":396.27,"body":"You're Irish."},{"startTime":396.27,"endTime":397.59,"body":"It's an interesting question for us."},{"startTime":397.66,"endTime":402.82,"body":"Ireland came from being a largely"},{"startTime":397.66,"endTime":402.82,"body":"agricultural society to being"},{"startTime":402.82,"endTime":406.69,"body":"a service-based society or or"},{"startTime":402.82,"endTime":406.69,"body":"software engineering economy and"},{"startTime":406.69,"endTime":407.65,"body":"a lot of software engineering."},{"startTime":407.65,"endTime":409.877,"body":"So we skipped, the industrial age."},{"startTime":409.877,"endTime":413.807,"body":"And I'm not sure whether that at the time"},{"startTime":409.877,"endTime":413.807,"body":"was to our advantage or a disadvantage."},{"startTime":414.147,"endTime":417.357,"body":"You know, but clearly from a government"},{"startTime":414.147,"endTime":417.357,"body":"investment point of view, back in the"},{"startTime":417.357,"endTime":422.812,"body":"eighties, there was a big, big focus on"},{"startTime":417.357,"endTime":422.812,"body":"attracting in high tech, you know, pharma,"},{"startTime":422.902,"endTime":427.162,"body":"all of pharma, semiconductor computing,"},{"startTime":422.902,"endTime":427.162,"body":"that kind of investment into Ireland."},{"startTime":427.162,"endTime":431.332,"body":"And that was the genesis of the industry"},{"startTime":427.162,"endTime":431.332,"body":"we see today, because what happened"},{"startTime":431.332,"endTime":437.122,"body":"then is that we started to build up"},{"startTime":431.332,"endTime":437.122,"body":"some expertise in the nascent data"},{"startTime":437.122,"endTime":439.332,"body":"center industry back in the nineties."},{"startTime":439.782,"endTime":441.912,"body":"People say to me, is it about the tax?"},{"startTime":441.972,"endTime":446.062,"body":"I think it's part of the story it's"},{"startTime":441.972,"endTime":446.062,"body":"certainly not about the cost of energy."},{"startTime":446.062,"endTime":447.082,"body":"And I'll come back to that."},{"startTime":447.392,"endTime":452.562,"body":"I think the reason that our economy"},{"startTime":447.392,"endTime":452.562,"body":"has benefited so much from from the"},{"startTime":452.562,"endTime":456.392,"body":"data center growth is that we were in"},{"startTime":452.562,"endTime":456.392,"body":"the right place at the right time in"},{"startTime":456.392,"endTime":461.312,"body":"the late nineties, and we'd already"},{"startTime":456.392,"endTime":461.312,"body":"attracted in a lot of the emergent"},{"startTime":461.312,"endTime":465.272,"body":"players at the time to set up their"},{"startTime":461.312,"endTime":465.272,"body":"European headquarters in Dublin."},{"startTime":465.577,"endTime":465.787,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":465.787,"endTime":468.547,"body":"So that was kind of the"},{"startTime":465.787,"endTime":468.547,"body":"genesis, of how it started."},{"startTime":468.547,"endTime":472.26,"body":"And, some of the early investors in"},{"startTime":468.547,"endTime":472.26,"body":"the data center industry in Ireland,"},{"startTime":472.26,"endTime":474.75,"body":"obviously were, you know, Microsoft"},{"startTime":472.26,"endTime":474.75,"body":"were probably one of the earliest."},{"startTime":474.94,"endTime":478.434,"body":"And then we had a long, history or"},{"startTime":474.94,"endTime":478.434,"body":"a long journey through the 2,000's"},{"startTime":478.454,"endTime":481.274,"body":"And you know, up to probably three"},{"startTime":478.454,"endTime":481.274,"body":"or four years ago, where we were"},{"startTime":481.274,"endTime":485.274,"body":"one of the preferred locations for"},{"startTime":481.274,"endTime":485.274,"body":"data center investment in Europe."},{"startTime":486.214,"endTime":488.794,"body":"I think if we look at the"},{"startTime":486.214,"endTime":488.794,"body":"economy, the economic impact,"},{"startTime":488.794,"endTime":490.114,"body":"it's been significant clearly."},{"startTime":490.695,"endTime":495.495,"body":"When the big investors come to any"},{"startTime":490.695,"endTime":495.495,"body":"country there's a flywheel effect, right?"},{"startTime":495.495,"endTime":497.415,"body":"So it starts to build up expertise."},{"startTime":497.652,"endTime":499.602,"body":"It starts to attract"},{"startTime":497.652,"endTime":499.602,"body":"the mid-market players."},{"startTime":499.602,"endTime":502.962,"body":"It starts to attract companies like"},{"startTime":499.602,"endTime":502.962,"body":"Siemens to support the industry."},{"startTime":503.292,"endTime":505.379,"body":"You get service organisations"},{"startTime":503.292,"endTime":505.379,"body":"wrapped around it."},{"startTime":505.619,"endTime":509.189,"body":"And over a period of time, you"},{"startTime":505.619,"endTime":509.189,"body":"then get an industry that you can"},{"startTime":509.399,"endTime":512.799,"body":"measure as opposed to just point"},{"startTime":509.399,"endTime":512.799,"body":"solutions for corporate consumption."},{"startTime":513.429,"endTime":517.449,"body":"The cloud transition back in the early"},{"startTime":513.429,"endTime":517.449,"body":"2010s a little bit like what we're"},{"startTime":517.449,"endTime":522.534,"body":"seeing with a AI now, Ireland was well"},{"startTime":517.449,"endTime":522.534,"body":"positioned to participate in some of"},{"startTime":522.534,"endTime":527.064,"body":"the early cloud investments because"},{"startTime":522.534,"endTime":527.064,"body":"we have already had some experience"},{"startTime":527.064,"endTime":531.144,"body":"of how to put data centers together"},{"startTime":527.064,"endTime":531.144,"body":"and how to do them cost effectively"},{"startTime":531.444,"endTime":533.004,"body":"relative to some of the other markets."},{"startTime":533.454,"endTime":534.499,"body":"So that's kind of the history."},{"startTime":535.539,"endTime":537.939,"body":"Now you brought up a really"},{"startTime":535.539,"endTime":537.939,"body":"interesting point and one"},{"startTime":537.939,"endTime":539.364,"body":"that I, I do like  to address."},{"startTime":539.634,"endTime":544.574,"body":"So yes disproportionately relative to"},{"startTime":539.634,"endTime":544.574,"body":"some of our other European neighbors, we"},{"startTime":544.574,"endTime":549.944,"body":"have a high degree of energy consumption"},{"startTime":544.574,"endTime":549.944,"body":"related to data center for sure."},{"startTime":550.164,"endTime":552.879,"body":"I think my latest data is it's about 20%."},{"startTime":553.269,"endTime":557.259,"body":"And if you compare that to, you know,"},{"startTime":553.269,"endTime":557.259,"body":"UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, they're"},{"startTime":557.259,"endTime":563.829,"body":"all in the sort of two to 3%, However,"},{"startTime":557.259,"endTime":563.829,"body":"if you look at Germany, for example,"},{"startTime":563.829,"endTime":568.509,"body":"Germany's got a huge industrial base that"},{"startTime":563.829,"endTime":568.509,"body":"also uses energy, which we don't have."},{"startTime":568.749,"endTime":572.379,"body":"So we've got pharmaceuticals, and we've"},{"startTime":568.749,"endTime":572.379,"body":"got tech, and then we got, we got the"},{"startTime":572.379,"endTime":573.969,"body":"ancillary industries that sit around it."},{"startTime":574.389,"endTime":579.159,"body":"So, an argument I would make is that,"},{"startTime":574.389,"endTime":579.159,"body":"okay, if it's not going to be data"},{"startTime":579.159,"endTime":581.739,"body":"centers that uses 20% of our, electricity."},{"startTime":581.799,"endTime":582.339,"body":"What is it?"},{"startTime":582.819,"endTime":586.882,"body":"Because here's the thing, and the OECD"},{"startTime":582.819,"endTime":586.882,"body":"have published many papers on this."},{"startTime":587.752,"endTime":591.622,"body":"Modern progressive economies"},{"startTime":587.752,"endTime":591.622,"body":"need to make sure that a certain"},{"startTime":591.622,"endTime":596.272,"body":"proportion of their energy"},{"startTime":591.622,"endTime":596.272,"body":"generation is used for GDP activity."},{"startTime":596.572,"endTime":600.712,"body":"Right, so there's kind of this theory"},{"startTime":596.572,"endTime":600.712,"body":"that a 70 30 mix, so 30 of your your"},{"startTime":600.712,"endTime":603.982,"body":"electricity generation should be"},{"startTime":600.712,"endTime":603.982,"body":"going to industrial applications that"},{"startTime":603.982,"endTime":607.822,"body":"you generate GDP, and 70% will go"},{"startTime":603.982,"endTime":607.822,"body":"to residential and support, right?"},{"startTime":607.822,"endTime":611.272,"body":"And that's the situation in Germany,"},{"startTime":607.822,"endTime":611.272,"body":"that's the situation in the UK, and that's"},{"startTime":611.272,"endTime":615.987,"body":"the situation in most modern economies now"},{"startTime":611.272,"endTime":615.987,"body":"I'm not trying to avoid the issue because"},{"startTime":615.987,"endTime":620.777,"body":"there's a bigger issue here, but I do"},{"startTime":615.987,"endTime":620.777,"body":"wanna make the point that when you look"},{"startTime":620.777,"endTime":628.167,"body":"at the ratio of GDP industrial load versus"},{"startTime":620.777,"endTime":628.167,"body":"residential and non-industrial load,"},{"startTime":628.497,"endTime":632.967,"body":"we're not a lot different to countries"},{"startTime":628.497,"endTime":632.967,"body":"like Germany who make cars or, you know,"},{"startTime":632.967,"endTime":636.927,"body":"countries like UK and who've got an oil"},{"startTime":632.967,"endTime":636.927,"body":"and gas industry or science industry."},{"startTime":637.147,"endTime":639.037,"body":"So that's, that's kind of the macro view."},{"startTime":640.387,"endTime":645.697,"body":"Within the industry then, I think"},{"startTime":640.387,"endTime":645.697,"body":"we need to do a, or continue to"},{"startTime":645.697,"endTime":648.744,"body":"advocate for the benefit that we"},{"startTime":645.697,"endTime":648.744,"body":"bring to  the economies, right?"},{"startTime":648.744,"endTime":650.604,"body":"So there's the GDP piece, right?"},{"startTime":650.604,"endTime":654.774,"body":"There's a lot of people in Ireland and"},{"startTime":650.604,"endTime":654.774,"body":"across Europe, but let's talk, Tech"},{"startTime":654.774,"endTime":657.804,"body":"Ireland that are employed directly"},{"startTime":654.774,"endTime":657.804,"body":"by the tech companies and use the"},{"startTime":657.804,"endTime":661.919,"body":"data centers that are employed by the"},{"startTime":657.804,"endTime":661.919,"body":"organisations that support the data"},{"startTime":661.919,"endTime":666.452,"body":"centers and that are employed by all the"},{"startTime":661.919,"endTime":666.452,"body":"ancillary businesses outside that that"},{"startTime":666.452,"endTime":668.582,"body":"also feed into the tech industry, right?"},{"startTime":668.582,"endTime":673.182,"body":"So it is very much a beating,"},{"startTime":668.582,"endTime":673.182,"body":"beating heart of our economy."},{"startTime":673.962,"endTime":679.399,"body":"When we look at the energy situation"},{"startTime":673.962,"endTime":679.399,"body":"here, I, try to take a more well, I always"},{"startTime":679.399,"endTime":682.829,"body":"try to take a more balanced view, but"},{"startTime":679.399,"endTime":682.829,"body":"I'm more, I'm a little bit less just on"},{"startTime":682.829,"endTime":687.149,"body":"the data center side, meaning that I see"},{"startTime":682.829,"endTime":687.149,"body":"the argument that's being made by people"},{"startTime":687.149,"endTime":691.629,"body":"that we need to have more balance in"},{"startTime":687.149,"endTime":691.629,"body":"our economy, in our energy consumption."},{"startTime":691.929,"endTime":694.869,"body":"And notwithstanding the point I"},{"startTime":691.929,"endTime":694.869,"body":"made about mix I mean, I think"},{"startTime":694.869,"endTime":698.274,"body":"we've got challenges with, you"},{"startTime":694.869,"endTime":698.274,"body":"know, making sure our grid matures"},{"startTime":698.334,"endTime":700.67,"body":"along, in tandem with this industry."},{"startTime":700.91,"endTime":704.9,"body":"We've got challenges with bringing"},{"startTime":700.91,"endTime":704.9,"body":"in renewable energy into our grids"},{"startTime":705.21,"endTime":708.72,"body":"and then I think we've got challenges"},{"startTime":705.21,"endTime":708.72,"body":"ahead in how we manage our grid, how"},{"startTime":708.72,"endTime":712.56,"body":"we balance loads, how we discriminate,"},{"startTime":708.72,"endTime":712.56,"body":"how we manage dispatchable, how we"},{"startTime":713.22,"endTime":715.42,"body":"blend in and out different resources."},{"startTime":715.99,"endTime":719.14,"body":"If I look forward, I really think that"},{"startTime":715.99,"endTime":719.14,"body":"the data center industry has been one of"},{"startTime":719.14,"endTime":725.23,"body":"the driving forces behind the the adoption"},{"startTime":719.14,"endTime":725.23,"body":"of PPAs, energy purchase agreements,"},{"startTime":726.04,"endTime":729.41,"body":"and the bringing on of renewables into"},{"startTime":726.04,"endTime":729.41,"body":"our grid, you know, these are the loads"},{"startTime":729.41,"endTime":732.41,"body":"that, that can use these renewables"},{"startTime":729.41,"endTime":732.41,"body":"that can underwrite these investments."},{"startTime":732.74,"endTime":735.29,"body":"So my view for the future is that"},{"startTime":732.74,"endTime":735.29,"body":"the data center industry will"},{"startTime":735.29,"endTime":739.4,"body":"continue to be a catalyst for"},{"startTime":735.29,"endTime":739.4,"body":"bringing renewables into the grid."},{"startTime":740.075,"endTime":744.005,"body":"And then government and regulation"},{"startTime":740.075,"endTime":744.005,"body":"will need to respond to make sure that"},{"startTime":744.005,"endTime":747.455,"body":"the grid is fit for purpose and that"},{"startTime":744.005,"endTime":747.455,"body":"the commercial model around the grid"},{"startTime":747.455,"endTime":751.455,"body":"makes it an attractive proposition for"},{"startTime":747.455,"endTime":751.455,"body":"both the suppliers and the consumers."},{"startTime":752.355,"endTime":752.925,"body":"Long answer."},{"startTime":752.925,"endTime":753.165,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":753.625,"endTime":754.615,"body":"no, no, no, no, that's fine."},{"startTime":754.615,"endTime":754.925,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":755.305,"endTime":757.755,"body":"And just spell it out for people."},{"startTime":757.785,"endTime":761.975,"body":"What do data centers"},{"startTime":757.785,"endTime":761.975,"body":"contribute to the economy?"},{"startTime":761.975,"endTime":764.285,"body":"Cause it's not like they're"},{"startTime":761.975,"endTime":764.285,"body":"employing a lot of people."},{"startTime":765.38,"endTime":766.16,"body":"No, absolutely."},{"startTime":766.16,"endTime":769.89,"body":"I mean, I think  the employability"},{"startTime":766.16,"endTime":769.89,"body":"discussion is, is quite topical."},{"startTime":769.89,"endTime":773.39,"body":"Yes, when the data center is up and"},{"startTime":769.89,"endTime":773.39,"body":"running the steady state data center"},{"startTime":773.39,"endTime":777.85,"body":"does not employ a lot of people, but"},{"startTime":773.39,"endTime":777.85,"body":"there's probably three parts to what"},{"startTime":777.85,"endTime":779.56,"body":"the data center does do for the economy."},{"startTime":779.56,"endTime":784.633,"body":"Number one is it allows"},{"startTime":779.56,"endTime":784.633,"body":"industries around the data center."},{"startTime":784.873,"endTime":788.813,"body":"Either tech industries you know, software"},{"startTime":784.873,"endTime":788.813,"body":"industries, or even supporting industries"},{"startTime":789.063,"endTime":792.843,"body":"to build businesses where they can"},{"startTime":789.063,"endTime":792.843,"body":"support these data centers, because even"},{"startTime":792.843,"endTime":797.123,"body":"though you look at a data center with,"},{"startTime":792.843,"endTime":797.123,"body":"let's say, 20 people on site running"},{"startTime":797.123,"endTime":800.918,"body":"the data center, there are hundreds"},{"startTime":797.123,"endTime":800.918,"body":"of people in supporting organisations"},{"startTime":800.938,"endTime":804.698,"body":"that sit around that data center"},{"startTime":800.938,"endTime":804.698,"body":"supporting the power systems, the cooling"},{"startTime":804.698,"endTime":806.528,"body":"systems, the IT systems, all of that."},{"startTime":806.678,"endTime":807.698,"body":"So that's number one."},{"startTime":807.888,"endTime":811.918,"body":"I think the second part of the economic"},{"startTime":807.888,"endTime":811.918,"body":"benefit for the country relates to"},{"startTime":812.068,"endTime":817.208,"body":"making sure that a country can stay"},{"startTime":812.068,"endTime":817.208,"body":"at the front end of technology."},{"startTime":817.208,"endTime":820.688,"body":"Can be net contributor to"},{"startTime":817.208,"endTime":820.688,"body":"the technological development"},{"startTime":820.688,"endTime":822.428,"body":"of economies and societies."},{"startTime":822.788,"endTime":825.908,"body":"And if we don't embrace the data"},{"startTime":822.788,"endTime":825.908,"body":"center as the beating heart of"},{"startTime":825.908,"endTime":828.878,"body":"the technology industry we're in"},{"startTime":825.908,"endTime":828.878,"body":"danger of getting left behind."},{"startTime":829.218,"endTime":833.403,"body":"If we look forward, we will start"},{"startTime":829.218,"endTime":833.403,"body":"to see the data center industry"},{"startTime":833.403,"endTime":837.393,"body":"evolve beyond just these big,"},{"startTime":833.403,"endTime":837.393,"body":"big, massive cloud data centers."},{"startTime":837.603,"endTime":842.093,"body":"We start to see other applications of"},{"startTime":837.603,"endTime":842.093,"body":"AI data centers, inference, maybe edge"},{"startTime":842.093,"endTime":847.268,"body":"data centers, all of these technologies"},{"startTime":842.093,"endTime":847.268,"body":"and all of these instances of data"},{"startTime":847.268,"endTime":851.528,"body":"center are part of how an economy"},{"startTime":847.268,"endTime":851.528,"body":"competes, and we need to be able to"},{"startTime":851.528,"endTime":854.228,"body":"compete in the world, you know, in the"},{"startTime":851.528,"endTime":854.228,"body":"world with all of those other economies."},{"startTime":854.528,"endTime":857.048,"body":"So the economic benefit, I mean,"},{"startTime":854.528,"endTime":857.048,"body":"there's there's a, there's a recent"},{"startTime":857.048,"endTime":859.058,"body":"PwC report that looks at it for the US."},{"startTime":859.388,"endTime":863.468,"body":"It's quite remarkable when you spread"},{"startTime":859.388,"endTime":863.468,"body":"the net beyond the physical building, and"},{"startTime":863.468,"endTime":867.038,"body":"you look at the tech companies that sit"},{"startTime":863.468,"endTime":867.038,"body":"near it, the support organisations that"},{"startTime":867.038,"endTime":871.148,"body":"sit near it, and all of the supporting"},{"startTime":867.038,"endTime":871.148,"body":"jobs that are generated as a result."},{"startTime":871.488,"endTime":875.958,"body":"And I would also say that as the"},{"startTime":871.488,"endTime":875.958,"body":"industry matures, we now go into the,"},{"startTime":875.958,"endTime":880.818,"body":"the retrofit, the refurb, the remediation"},{"startTime":875.958,"endTime":880.818,"body":"type cycles with a lot of data centers."},{"startTime":881.178,"endTime":883.808,"body":"Again, creates you know,"},{"startTime":881.178,"endTime":883.808,"body":"engineering, construction,"},{"startTime":884.018,"endTime":887.018,"body":"project management requirements"},{"startTime":884.018,"endTime":887.018,"body":"for all of these data centers."},{"startTime":887.018,"endTime":890.558,"body":"And I think that is, again,"},{"startTime":887.018,"endTime":890.558,"body":"part of the beating heart of the"},{"startTime":890.558,"endTime":892.568,"body":"economic value of the data center."},{"startTime":893.318,"endTime":893.698,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":893.698,"endTime":896.628,"body":"And this is the Climate Confident podcast."},{"startTime":896.638,"endTime":901.068,"body":"Can data centers be climate heroes"},{"startTime":896.638,"endTime":901.068,"body":"rather than climate villains?"},{"startTime":901.068,"endTime":902.158,"body":"And if so, how"},{"startTime":902.848,"endTime":903.928,"body":"Yeah, it is the podcast."},{"startTime":903.928,"endTime":904.108,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":904.108,"endTime":905.038,"body":"Tough question, right?"},{"startTime":905.088,"endTime":911.357,"body":"So I think in general the data center"},{"startTime":905.088,"endTime":911.357,"body":"industry has had a very, very long, hard"},{"startTime":911.357,"endTime":914.457,"body":"look at itself and its impact in society."},{"startTime":914.457,"endTime":917.427,"body":"And I think that, quite frankly,"},{"startTime":914.457,"endTime":917.427,"body":"people who claim to be able to"},{"startTime":917.427,"endTime":920.097,"body":"build data centers, you know, I,"},{"startTime":917.427,"endTime":920.097,"body":"I'm gonna build a brand new data"},{"startTime":920.097,"endTime":921.537,"body":"center and it's gonna be net zero."},{"startTime":921.777,"endTime":924.867,"body":"I think we need to move away from that"},{"startTime":921.777,"endTime":924.867,"body":"narrative because a) nobody believes"},{"startTime":924.867,"endTime":926.847,"body":"it and b), it's probably not true."},{"startTime":927.177,"endTime":927.507,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":927.507,"endTime":932.087,"body":"Everything we do as as"},{"startTime":927.507,"endTime":932.087,"body":"humanity has some impact."},{"startTime":932.327,"endTime":932.607,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":932.657,"endTime":934.877,"body":"So I don't think it's"},{"startTime":932.657,"endTime":934.877,"body":"necessarily about net zero."},{"startTime":934.907,"endTime":939.167,"body":"But what I do think it's about, Tom,"},{"startTime":934.907,"endTime":939.167,"body":"it's about making sure that the,"},{"startTime":939.407,"endTime":942.707,"body":"benefit, the net benefit of having"},{"startTime":939.407,"endTime":942.707,"body":"the data center, or the data center"},{"startTime":942.707,"endTime":945.002,"body":"industry is greater than the impact."},{"startTime":945.287,"endTime":945.587,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":946.037,"endTime":949.647,"body":"So when we talk to our customers"},{"startTime":946.037,"endTime":949.647,"body":"at Siemens, we're absolutely honest"},{"startTime":949.647,"endTime":955.872,"body":"with the number one thing to do is is"},{"startTime":949.647,"endTime":955.872,"body":"strive to consume renewable energy."},{"startTime":956.292,"endTime":959.182,"body":"Take the carbon out of"},{"startTime":956.292,"endTime":959.182,"body":"the energy supply chain."},{"startTime":959.572,"endTime":961.612,"body":"We look at the humble washing machine."},{"startTime":962.255,"endTime":968.285,"body":"Electrolux did a study a couple of years"},{"startTime":962.255,"endTime":968.285,"body":"back where they said that 85% of the"},{"startTime":968.285,"endTime":972.695,"body":"sustainability impact of the washing"},{"startTime":968.285,"endTime":972.695,"body":"machine happens from the day you buy it"},{"startTime":972.815,"endTime":976.985,"body":"and use it to the day you, dispose of"},{"startTime":972.815,"endTime":976.985,"body":"it because of the energy consumption."},{"startTime":977.458,"endTime":980.938,"body":"The real trick here is to make sure that"},{"startTime":977.458,"endTime":980.938,"body":"the data center industry not only uses"},{"startTime":980.938,"endTime":985.798,"body":"renewable energy, but is also a catalyst"},{"startTime":980.938,"endTime":985.798,"body":"for the decarbonisation of the grid."},{"startTime":986.068,"endTime":989.428,"body":"So the loads that that the data center"},{"startTime":986.068,"endTime":989.428,"body":"will use can help underwrite the"},{"startTime":989.428,"endTime":993.798,"body":"investments that need to be made to"},{"startTime":989.428,"endTime":993.798,"body":"build up those renewable sources, you"},{"startTime":993.798,"endTime":995.008,"body":"know, solar, wind, whatever it is."},{"startTime":995.058,"endTime":996.228,"body":"So that, that's one piece of it."},{"startTime":996.558,"endTime":999.525,"body":"The second piece is"},{"startTime":996.558,"endTime":999.525,"body":"efficiency and effectiveness."},{"startTime":999.792,"endTime":1002.705,"body":"Data center performance has, come"},{"startTime":999.792,"endTime":1002.705,"body":"on in leaps and bounds over the"},{"startTime":1002.705,"endTime":1006.575,"body":"past 25 years, for sure, in terms of"},{"startTime":1002.705,"endTime":1006.575,"body":"microprocessors, in terms of networking,"},{"startTime":1006.875,"endTime":1008.555,"body":"but also in terms of energy consumption."},{"startTime":1008.975,"endTime":1012.235,"body":"So data center operators"},{"startTime":1008.975,"endTime":1012.235,"body":"are quite innovative."},{"startTime":1012.595,"endTime":1017.545,"body":"And quite aggressive at driving"},{"startTime":1012.595,"endTime":1017.545,"body":"out every watt of waste energy."},{"startTime":1017.845,"endTime":1020.545,"body":"And that's really important because"},{"startTime":1017.845,"endTime":1020.545,"body":"just because it's renewable energy"},{"startTime":1020.845,"endTime":1021.925,"body":"doesn't mean you should waste it."},{"startTime":1022.72,"endTime":1027.07,"body":"And then the last piece of the puzzle"},{"startTime":1022.72,"endTime":1027.07,"body":"that I think helps us become part"},{"startTime":1027.1,"endTime":1031.75,"body":"of the sustainability story for our"},{"startTime":1027.1,"endTime":1031.75,"body":"grids is that data centers will now"},{"startTime":1031.75,"endTime":1033.88,"body":"become part of the grid ecosystem."},{"startTime":1033.88,"endTime":1036.55,"body":"They will partner with utility companies."},{"startTime":1036.82,"endTime":1042.38,"body":"So instead of a utility company having"},{"startTime":1036.82,"endTime":1042.38,"body":"to build another gas fired power"},{"startTime":1042.38,"endTime":1047.6,"body":"plant, perhaps, they can use excess"},{"startTime":1042.38,"endTime":1047.6,"body":"energy storage capacity from a set"},{"startTime":1047.6,"endTime":1049.07,"body":"of data centers that sit on the grid."},{"startTime":1049.52,"endTime":1053.48,"body":"So when you look at the grid and the"},{"startTime":1049.52,"endTime":1053.48,"body":"power system in its entirety, you can"},{"startTime":1053.48,"endTime":1055.16,"body":"see that everybody's got a part to play."},{"startTime":1056.66,"endTime":1061.805,"body":"My view and my own personal view is"},{"startTime":1056.66,"endTime":1061.805,"body":"that the net impact of technology"},{"startTime":1062.045,"endTime":1066.095,"body":"has been to make us more efficient"},{"startTime":1062.045,"endTime":1066.095,"body":"at how we go about our daily lives,"},{"startTime":1066.095,"endTime":1071.175,"body":"how we operate society, whether it's"},{"startTime":1066.095,"endTime":1071.175,"body":"agriculture or transport or, or medicine"},{"startTime":1071.175,"endTime":1075.645,"body":"or any of these human endeavors has"},{"startTime":1071.175,"endTime":1075.645,"body":"become more efficient because of"},{"startTime":1075.645,"endTime":1076.965,"body":"what we've been able to do with data."},{"startTime":1076.965,"endTime":1078.315,"body":"And that will continue."},{"startTime":1078.655,"endTime":1082.685,"body":"The challenge now is to make"},{"startTime":1078.655,"endTime":1082.685,"body":"sure that as an industry, we're"},{"startTime":1082.685,"endTime":1086.875,"body":"incrementally improving our"},{"startTime":1082.685,"endTime":1086.875,"body":"sustainability performance year on year."},{"startTime":1087.085,"endTime":1091.225,"body":"So for me, it's not about making a claim"},{"startTime":1087.085,"endTime":1091.225,"body":"about net zero today, it's about being"},{"startTime":1091.225,"endTime":1096.565,"body":"confident with our customers and what"},{"startTime":1091.225,"endTime":1096.565,"body":"we we at Siemens do to incrementally"},{"startTime":1096.565,"endTime":1099.955,"body":"improve every year the performance"},{"startTime":1096.565,"endTime":1099.955,"body":"so that we're on a journey to some"},{"startTime":1099.955,"endTime":1105.125,"body":"point in the future where we can say"},{"startTime":1099.955,"endTime":1105.125,"body":"that our impact on the planet is a"},{"startTime":1105.125,"endTime":1106.925,"body":"lot less than the benefit we bring."},{"startTime":1108.135,"endTime":1108.615,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"startTime":1108.635,"endTime":1114.655,"body":"And I mean, data centers typically"},{"startTime":1108.635,"endTime":1114.655,"body":"have backup power, battery storage"},{"startTime":1114.655,"endTime":1115.945,"body":"sophisticated energy systems."},{"startTime":1115.945,"endTime":1121.115,"body":"So to your point, do you think they could"},{"startTime":1115.945,"endTime":1121.115,"body":"become grid stabilising assets through"},{"startTime":1121.115,"endTime":1126.832,"body":"demand response programs and rather than"},{"startTime":1121.115,"endTime":1126.832,"body":"being seen as a villain in the energy"},{"startTime":1126.832,"endTime":1132.382,"body":"system, actually become a hero stepping in"},{"startTime":1126.832,"endTime":1132.382,"body":"and stabilising the grid, as I said, when"},{"startTime":1132.382,"endTime":1136.487,"body":"there are times when demand is high, they"},{"startTime":1132.382,"endTime":1136.487,"body":"go off grid, go on on site generation,"},{"startTime":1136.497,"endTime":1138.087,"body":"hopefully renewable generation."},{"startTime":1138.437,"endTime":1142.223,"body":"And as I say, they have big battery"},{"startTime":1138.437,"endTime":1142.223,"body":"storage systems as It, it should be the"},{"startTime":1142.223,"endTime":1146.983,"body":"case that they can help the energy systems"},{"startTime":1142.223,"endTime":1146.983,"body":"rather than being seen as a problem."},{"startTime":1147.848,"endTime":1149.588,"body":"Yeah, absolutely, Tom."},{"startTime":1150.002,"endTime":1152.862,"body":"certainly in Europe and"},{"startTime":1150.002,"endTime":1152.862,"body":"some of the Asian countries."},{"startTime":1152.862,"endTime":1158.352,"body":"There's a very clear legislative"},{"startTime":1152.862,"endTime":1158.352,"body":"direction to make these large energy"},{"startTime":1158.352,"endTime":1160.462,"body":"consumers participate, more in the grid."},{"startTime":1160.462,"endTime":1163.822,"body":"And to your point, exactly if"},{"startTime":1160.462,"endTime":1163.822,"body":"they've got large storage of energy"},{"startTime":1164.182,"endTime":1167.572,"body":"or if they've got availability"},{"startTime":1164.182,"endTime":1167.572,"body":"of, of, fast, rapid dispatchable"},{"startTime":1167.602,"endTime":1169.342,"body":"energy sources like a gas turbine."},{"startTime":1169.732,"endTime":1173.512,"body":"They want to be part of the grid so"},{"startTime":1169.732,"endTime":1173.512,"body":"that the grid operator can call on"},{"startTime":1173.512,"endTime":1175.522,"body":"them at you know, at times of need."},{"startTime":1175.732,"endTime":1179.722,"body":"And quite frankly, so the grid"},{"startTime":1175.732,"endTime":1179.722,"body":"operators can avoid the need"},{"startTime":1179.722,"endTime":1182.182,"body":"to build capacity for peaks."},{"startTime":1182.545,"endTime":1185.005,"body":"You might have five gigawatts in"},{"startTime":1182.545,"endTime":1185.005,"body":"Ireland, and then one day of the"},{"startTime":1185.005,"endTime":1186.775,"body":"year we need to go to six gigawatts."},{"startTime":1187.105,"endTime":1190.255,"body":"It's a shame to have to build a gigawatt"},{"startTime":1187.105,"endTime":1190.255,"body":"power plant just for that one spike."},{"startTime":1190.535,"endTime":1195.465,"body":"So there is a role for the data center"},{"startTime":1190.535,"endTime":1195.465,"body":"to play, but we have two challenges."},{"startTime":1195.485,"endTime":1199.115,"body":"And I think the two challenges are"},{"startTime":1195.485,"endTime":1199.115,"body":"pretty much common across most of"},{"startTime":1199.205,"endTime":1202.298,"body":"the countries that, that I'm working"},{"startTime":1199.205,"endTime":1202.298,"body":"in or most of the countries that the"},{"startTime":1202.298,"endTime":1203.738,"body":"data center industry operates in."},{"startTime":1204.188,"endTime":1210.278,"body":"Number one, in a lot of cases the grid is"},{"startTime":1204.188,"endTime":1210.278,"body":"not quite yet fit for purpose to really"},{"startTime":1210.278,"endTime":1212.558,"body":"manage this bidirectional flow of energy."},{"startTime":1213.045,"endTime":1215.925,"body":"I'm careful not to say it's, it"},{"startTime":1213.045,"endTime":1215.925,"body":"it doesn't work because it does."},{"startTime":1216.265,"endTime":1218.17,"body":"And, And there are many good examples."},{"startTime":1218.17,"endTime":1222.76,"body":"But as an entirety, I don't think we're"},{"startTime":1218.17,"endTime":1222.76,"body":"in a situation today where we can say,"},{"startTime":1223.123,"endTime":1225.733,"body":"we can put loads on the grid and we"},{"startTime":1223.123,"endTime":1225.733,"body":"can we can run them bidirectional."},{"startTime":1226.528,"endTime":1227.332,"body":"We're not there yet."},{"startTime":1227.592,"endTime":1231.972,"body":"There's a technology investment"},{"startTime":1227.592,"endTime":1231.972,"body":"element that needs to catch"},{"startTime":1231.972,"endTime":1233.012,"body":"up and, it will, right?"},{"startTime":1233.642,"endTime":1237.302,"body":"The second challenge, and this is the"},{"startTime":1233.642,"endTime":1237.302,"body":"one that's a little bit technically"},{"startTime":1237.302,"endTime":1240.782,"body":"easier to resolve, but probably"},{"startTime":1237.302,"endTime":1240.782,"body":"politically more difficult, is the"},{"startTime":1240.782,"endTime":1242.582,"body":"commercial model around how that works."},{"startTime":1242.582,"endTime":1245.462,"body":"The legislation, the"},{"startTime":1242.582,"endTime":1245.462,"body":"rules, the regulations."},{"startTime":1245.822,"endTime":1250.522,"body":"What are the rules for a 100 megawatt"},{"startTime":1245.822,"endTime":1250.522,"body":"data center to, you know, set up in"},{"startTime":1250.522,"endTime":1252.742,"body":"country X and to participate in the grid?"},{"startTime":1252.892,"endTime":1256.342,"body":"What are the requirements that"},{"startTime":1252.892,"endTime":1256.342,"body":"that data center will have to"},{"startTime":1256.372,"endTime":1257.962,"body":"comply with above and beyond?"},{"startTime":1258.202,"endTime":1262.732,"body":"And what is the commercial model that"},{"startTime":1258.202,"endTime":1262.732,"body":"allows them to monetise or let's say"},{"startTime":1262.732,"endTime":1264.832,"body":"incentivise the correct behavior?"},{"startTime":1265.192,"endTime":1266.152,"body":"We're not there yet."},{"startTime":1266.242,"endTime":1268.847,"body":"Okay, so they're the two elements"},{"startTime":1266.242,"endTime":1268.847,"body":"that are coming into focus."},{"startTime":1269.717,"endTime":1272.777,"body":"Over time, we will get better, but"},{"startTime":1269.717,"endTime":1272.777,"body":"there are some really good examples"},{"startTime":1272.777,"endTime":1278.327,"body":"in the UK, in Germany, in the US,"},{"startTime":1272.777,"endTime":1278.327,"body":"where data centers are significantly"},{"startTime":1278.327,"endTime":1281.847,"body":"critical parts of the local grid and"},{"startTime":1278.327,"endTime":1281.847,"body":"the reliability of the local grid."},{"startTime":1281.867,"endTime":1283.157,"body":"And, And I hope we see more of that."},{"startTime":1284.217,"endTime":1285.657,"body":"Likewise, likewise, I'm sure we will."},{"startTime":1286.052,"endTime":1287.341,"body":"Switching gears, Ciaran."},{"startTime":1288.552,"endTime":1294.232,"body":"Siemens issued a, or published a"},{"startTime":1288.552,"endTime":1294.232,"body":"technical report not so long ago."},{"startTime":1294.362,"endTime":1298.693,"body":"In it you talked about, and you were"},{"startTime":1294.362,"endTime":1298.693,"body":"one of the authors of the report, in it"},{"startTime":1298.843,"endTime":1298.923,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":1298.973,"endTime":1303.393,"body":"you talked about the merging of"},{"startTime":1298.973,"endTime":1303.393,"body":"the real and the digital worlds."},{"startTime":1303.403,"endTime":1307.247,"body":"So, can you tell me what does that"},{"startTime":1303.403,"endTime":1307.247,"body":"mean practically for a data center?"},{"startTime":1308.072,"endTime":1308.282,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1308.952,"endTime":1312.132,"body":"So the concept of the real and"},{"startTime":1308.952,"endTime":1312.132,"body":"digital world is, it's like the old"},{"startTime":1312.132,"endTime":1313.622,"body":"saying, measure twice, cut once."},{"startTime":1314.732,"endTime":1318.338,"body":"So, what we wanna do, we wanna be, and,"},{"startTime":1314.732,"endTime":1318.338,"body":"and by the way, this is a concept that"},{"startTime":1318.338,"endTime":1323.808,"body":"has been, well tested, well proven in, in"},{"startTime":1318.338,"endTime":1323.808,"body":"automotive manufacturing in oil and gas,"},{"startTime":1323.808,"endTime":1326.418,"body":"in, in aeronautics, many, many industries."},{"startTime":1326.418,"endTime":1330.948,"body":"But the concept is that rather than"},{"startTime":1326.418,"endTime":1330.948,"body":"building the data center outta the ground"},{"startTime":1330.948,"endTime":1334.848,"body":"and measure as you go and you know, buy"},{"startTime":1330.948,"endTime":1334.848,"body":"resources and consume resources as you"},{"startTime":1334.848,"endTime":1340.348,"body":"go, you build it entirely in a digital"},{"startTime":1334.848,"endTime":1340.348,"body":"model first, and you predict what you"},{"startTime":1340.348,"endTime":1343.143,"body":"need to put the data center in the ground."},{"startTime":1343.563,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"You predict what the layout"},{"startTime":1343.563,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"will look like, and you predict"},{"startTime":1347.19,"endTime":1350.832,"body":"what the issues will be with"},{"startTime":1347.19,"endTime":1350.832,"body":"constructability and manufacturability."},{"startTime":1350.837,"endTime":1354.938,"body":"And it goes all the way from putting"},{"startTime":1350.837,"endTime":1354.938,"body":"the steel in the ground, all the"},{"startTime":1354.938,"endTime":1358.868,"body":"way to laying out the servers in"},{"startTime":1354.938,"endTime":1358.868,"body":"the server room and how they behave."},{"startTime":1359.538,"endTime":1363.588,"body":"We did some work a couple of years"},{"startTime":1359.538,"endTime":1363.588,"body":"ago and PwC also did a similar report"},{"startTime":1363.588,"endTime":1368.361,"body":"a couple of years ago that showed,"},{"startTime":1363.588,"endTime":1368.361,"body":"construction projects that use digital"},{"startTime":1368.361,"endTime":1375.167,"body":"twin technology can save up to 25% of"},{"startTime":1368.361,"endTime":1375.167,"body":"input resources like you know, concrete,"},{"startTime":1375.167,"endTime":1378.947,"body":"cement, wood, timber, all all of those,"},{"startTime":1375.167,"endTime":1378.947,"body":"because what you're effectively doing"},{"startTime":1378.947,"endTime":1382.317,"body":"is you're building it in in a digital"},{"startTime":1378.947,"endTime":1382.317,"body":"model and you're the digital model is"},{"startTime":1382.317,"endTime":1384.177,"body":"telling you precisely what you need."},{"startTime":1384.177,"endTime":1387.177,"body":"So you're not buying extra"},{"startTime":1384.177,"endTime":1387.177,"body":"just in case or not a lot."},{"startTime":1387.657,"endTime":1392.997,"body":"We're also using digital twin"},{"startTime":1387.657,"endTime":1392.997,"body":"to allow us construct the data"},{"startTime":1392.997,"endTime":1395.367,"body":"center in modules offsite."},{"startTime":1396.237,"endTime":1402.057,"body":"So now a construction project has a lot"},{"startTime":1396.237,"endTime":1402.057,"body":"less people on the site, driving to the"},{"startTime":1402.057,"endTime":1407.127,"body":"site, getting hurt on the site, more"},{"startTime":1402.057,"endTime":1407.127,"body":"people at the factory in a controlled"},{"startTime":1407.127,"endTime":1411.567,"body":"environment where you can build it to"},{"startTime":1407.127,"endTime":1411.567,"body":"a high quality and build it once and"},{"startTime":1411.567,"endTime":1413.127,"body":"build it again and again if you need to."},{"startTime":1413.447,"endTime":1418.366,"body":"So again, the construction program for"},{"startTime":1413.447,"endTime":1418.366,"body":"the developer becomes a lot shorter."},{"startTime":1418.366,"endTime":1420.466,"body":"So he's a lot less time on site."},{"startTime":1420.611,"endTime":1424.241,"body":"A lot less impact on the community"},{"startTime":1420.611,"endTime":1424.241,"body":"around him with trucks and all of that."},{"startTime":1424.291,"endTime":1427.561,"body":"So that's it in the construction"},{"startTime":1424.291,"endTime":1427.561,"body":"phase and, and the benefits of"},{"startTime":1427.561,"endTime":1431.441,"body":"digital twin in construction have"},{"startTime":1427.561,"endTime":1431.441,"body":"come up from building information,"},{"startTime":1431.441,"endTime":1433.384,"body":"modeling from AutoCAD in the past."},{"startTime":1433.384,"endTime":1436.844,"body":"It's pretty well proven in many"},{"startTime":1433.384,"endTime":1436.844,"body":"industries, it's just the data"},{"startTime":1436.844,"endTime":1440.144,"body":"center industry is really only"},{"startTime":1436.844,"endTime":1440.144,"body":"coming into this domain now."},{"startTime":1441.164,"endTime":1444.854,"body":"Once you've built the data center"},{"startTime":1441.164,"endTime":1444.854,"body":"you've got all of this digital"},{"startTime":1444.854,"endTime":1449.727,"body":"representation of your asset, and,"},{"startTime":1444.854,"endTime":1449.727,"body":"it's a shame to just, start running"},{"startTime":1449.727,"endTime":1451.504,"body":"it and, forget about all that data."},{"startTime":1451.504,"endTime":1454.944,"body":"That data now becomes part"},{"startTime":1451.504,"endTime":1454.944,"body":"of your operations model."},{"startTime":1455.534,"endTime":1458.954,"body":"So now you're using that data to"},{"startTime":1455.534,"endTime":1458.954,"body":"run the building, to run the data"},{"startTime":1458.954,"endTime":1460.994,"body":"center, to operate the data center."},{"startTime":1461.204,"endTime":1465.564,"body":"And you're using that data to make"},{"startTime":1461.204,"endTime":1465.564,"body":"sure everybody in your organisation"},{"startTime":1465.584,"endTime":1468.824,"body":"and your suppliers, everybody knows"},{"startTime":1465.584,"endTime":1468.824,"body":"when they're talking about your data"},{"startTime":1468.824,"endTime":1472.064,"body":"center, they've got maybe access to"},{"startTime":1468.824,"endTime":1472.064,"body":"your digital twin and they can see"},{"startTime":1472.064,"endTime":1475.094,"body":"where everything is fitting and laid"},{"startTime":1472.064,"endTime":1475.094,"body":"out and they can be more effective."},{"startTime":1475.404,"endTime":1478.404,"body":"We're starting to see, for"},{"startTime":1475.404,"endTime":1478.404,"body":"example, using digital twin and AI"},{"startTime":1478.404,"endTime":1482.079,"body":"technology to predict thermal loads."},{"startTime":1482.289,"endTime":1487.479,"body":"So helping customers design"},{"startTime":1482.289,"endTime":1487.479,"body":"cooling that is right sized for"},{"startTime":1487.479,"endTime":1489.219,"body":"the thermal load, not oversized."},{"startTime":1489.489,"endTime":1491.859,"body":"'cause when you oversize"},{"startTime":1489.489,"endTime":1491.859,"body":"thermal rejection, you're"},{"startTime":1491.859,"endTime":1493.059,"body":"spending money on electricity."},{"startTime":1493.059,"endTime":1495.159,"body":"You're spending money"},{"startTime":1493.059,"endTime":1495.159,"body":"on capital equipment."},{"startTime":1495.339,"endTime":1497.679,"body":"And quite frankly, you're probably"},{"startTime":1495.339,"endTime":1497.679,"body":"running the data center too cold."},{"startTime":1498.099,"endTime":1501.279,"body":"So the application for digital twin"},{"startTime":1498.099,"endTime":1501.279,"body":"goes all the way from planning and"},{"startTime":1501.279,"endTime":1505.789,"body":"design right out to operations and,"},{"startTime":1501.279,"endTime":1505.789,"body":"and energy consumption at the other"},{"startTime":1505.789,"endTime":1507.289,"body":"end and everything in between."},{"startTime":1507.639,"endTime":1509.049,"body":"And I think it's an exciting time."},{"startTime":1509.049,"endTime":1511.719,"body":"I mean, I think this is evolving"},{"startTime":1509.049,"endTime":1511.719,"body":"for us in the data center industry,"},{"startTime":1512.019,"endTime":1514.689,"body":"but we've got some really good proof"},{"startTime":1512.019,"endTime":1514.689,"body":"points already where we've been able"},{"startTime":1514.689,"endTime":1518.829,"body":"to demonstrate to our customers taking"},{"startTime":1514.689,"endTime":1518.829,"body":"a digital twin, combining the real"},{"startTime":1518.829,"endTime":1522.249,"body":"and the digital worlds has made them"},{"startTime":1518.829,"endTime":1522.249,"body":"more efficient and more effective."},{"startTime":1523.414,"endTime":1523.824,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1524.254,"endTime":1528.604,"body":"And obviously the topic du"},{"startTime":1524.254,"endTime":1528.604,"body":"jour these days has to be AI."},{"startTime":1556.2740000000001,"endTime":1562.804,"body":"Do you think aI is a sustainability"},{"startTime":1556.2740000000001,"endTime":1562.804,"body":"friend or foe in the data center world?"},{"startTime":1562.814,"endTime":1566.304,"body":"Because it seems to be both"},{"startTime":1562.814,"endTime":1566.304,"body":"increasing workloads and also"},{"startTime":1566.604,"endTime":1568.134,"body":"helping optimise operations."},{"startTime":1569.174,"endTime":1569.654,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1570.344,"endTime":1573.287,"body":"I recently spoke to, somebody"},{"startTime":1570.344,"endTime":1573.287,"body":"about this concept of the trilema,"},{"startTime":1574.4270000000001,"endTime":1575.777,"body":"a dilemma with a third leg."},{"startTime":1576.1470000000002,"endTime":1579.5040000000001,"body":"Look, the data center industry is,"},{"startTime":1576.1470000000002,"endTime":1579.5040000000001,"body":"really looking to, you know, have"},{"startTime":1579.944,"endTime":1582.374,"body":"energy available, when it needs it."},{"startTime":1583.0610000000001,"endTime":1587.951,"body":"It wants it to be sustainable, and"},{"startTime":1583.0610000000001,"endTime":1587.951,"body":"it also needs it to be reliable, and"},{"startTime":1587.951,"endTime":1590.8010000000002,"body":"it's very difficult when, you know,"},{"startTime":1587.951,"endTime":1590.8010000000002,"body":"when AI came along and put all this"},{"startTime":1590.8010000000002,"endTime":1596.7910000000002,"body":"pressure on demand, the availability"},{"startTime":1590.8010000000002,"endTime":1596.7910000000002,"body":"of energy significantly was challenged,"},{"startTime":1597.241,"endTime":1601.8310000000001,"body":"and we saw a lot of the the large"},{"startTime":1597.241,"endTime":1601.8310000000001,"body":"hyperscalers saying, You know what?"},{"startTime":1601.8310000000001,"endTime":1604.141,"body":"Our 2030 commitments our 2040 commitments."},{"startTime":1604.141,"endTime":1608.941,"body":"We're gonna have to step back a little"},{"startTime":1604.141,"endTime":1608.941,"body":"bit because if we're going to do this AI"},{"startTime":1608.941,"endTime":1612.991,"body":"thing in the short term, we're not gonna"},{"startTime":1608.941,"endTime":1612.991,"body":"be able to make it all about renewables."},{"startTime":1613.171,"endTime":1618.971,"body":"So we've got this short term issue with"},{"startTime":1613.171,"endTime":1618.971,"body":"matching AI demand and renewable energy."},{"startTime":1619.691,"endTime":1622.9560000000001,"body":"That's slowly getting better and"},{"startTime":1619.691,"endTime":1622.9560000000001,"body":"it'll get better on on two fronts."},{"startTime":1622.9560000000001,"endTime":1625.1760000000002,"body":"You know, the AI Workloads"},{"startTime":1622.9560000000001,"endTime":1625.1760000000002,"body":"will become more efficient."},{"startTime":1625.536,"endTime":1628.046,"body":"You know, we saw what NVIDIA said at GTC."},{"startTime":1628.046,"endTime":1629.442,"body":"We saw what Deepseek did."},{"startTime":1629.602,"endTime":1633.122,"body":"So the AI workloads will get"},{"startTime":1629.602,"endTime":1633.122,"body":"more efficient and the renewable"},{"startTime":1633.122,"endTime":1636.3020000000001,"body":"energy adoption on the grid"},{"startTime":1633.122,"endTime":1636.3020000000001,"body":"will continue to increase."},{"startTime":1636.352,"endTime":1639.5620000000001,"body":"So I'm I'm confident that we will"},{"startTime":1636.352,"endTime":1639.5620000000001,"body":"get to a point soon, probably in the"},{"startTime":1639.5620000000001,"endTime":1642.769,"body":"next two or three years where we've"},{"startTime":1639.5620000000001,"endTime":1642.769,"body":"really addressed that challenge."},{"startTime":1643.1290000000001,"endTime":1647.549,"body":"Certainly we would encourage and we"},{"startTime":1643.1290000000001,"endTime":1647.549,"body":"would, engage with our customers that"},{"startTime":1647.549,"endTime":1650.939,"body":"regardless of whether it's a cloud"},{"startTime":1647.549,"endTime":1650.939,"body":"data center or an enterprise data"},{"startTime":1650.939,"endTime":1654.249,"body":"center or an AI data center you know,"},{"startTime":1650.939,"endTime":1654.249,"body":"we really need to be looking at making"},{"startTime":1654.249,"endTime":1657.459,"body":"sure that we can do it with renewable"},{"startTime":1654.249,"endTime":1657.459,"body":"energy and we can do it efficiently"},{"startTime":1657.709,"endTime":1659.3590000000002,"body":"and we can help them manage the data."},{"startTime":1659.3590000000002,"endTime":1664.3890000000001,"body":"But the challenge that the AI industry"},{"startTime":1659.3590000000002,"endTime":1664.3890000000001,"body":"has is that the loads are so large"},{"startTime":1664.459,"endTime":1666.829,"body":"and they come, up, you know, they"},{"startTime":1664.459,"endTime":1666.829,"body":"demand them so quickly that sometimes"},{"startTime":1666.829,"endTime":1671.569,"body":"the only option in the short term"},{"startTime":1666.829,"endTime":1671.569,"body":"is fossil based energy generation."},{"startTime":1671.8790000000001,"endTime":1675.036,"body":"And over time we will see, that"},{"startTime":1671.8790000000001,"endTime":1675.036,"body":"circle being squared if you like."},{"startTime":1675.6760000000002,"endTime":1676.776,"body":"So that's the energy piece."},{"startTime":1676.796,"endTime":1679.586,"body":"I'm, I'm confident and I'm"},{"startTime":1676.796,"endTime":1679.586,"body":"optimistic on that piece."},{"startTime":1680.276,"endTime":1685.766,"body":"AI then also has the potential to"},{"startTime":1680.276,"endTime":1685.766,"body":"transform how we run data centers, right?"},{"startTime":1686.2160000000001,"endTime":1691.681,"body":"And, let's think about three elements"},{"startTime":1686.2160000000001,"endTime":1691.681,"body":"of the data center, the compute load"},{"startTime":1692.131,"endTime":1696.8310000000001,"body":"notoriously underutilised architectures"},{"startTime":1692.131,"endTime":1696.8310000000001,"body":"and serve server architectures in this"},{"startTime":1696.8310000000001,"endTime":1699.861,"body":"industry, not so much in AI itself,"},{"startTime":1696.8310000000001,"endTime":1699.861,"body":"but if you look at the industry at"},{"startTime":1699.861,"endTime":1702.441,"body":"large, it's notoriously underutilised."},{"startTime":1702.8310000000001,"endTime":1706.881,"body":"So there's a lot more impact and a lot"},{"startTime":1702.8310000000001,"endTime":1706.881,"body":"more benefit that customers and that"},{"startTime":1706.881,"endTime":1710.751,"body":"operators can get by using AI to better"},{"startTime":1706.881,"endTime":1710.751,"body":"manage their workloads, potentially"},{"startTime":1710.751,"endTime":1712.8210000000001,"body":"Tom using AI to better write software."},{"startTime":1713.181,"endTime":1716.337,"body":"I, I was shocked to see that, you"},{"startTime":1713.181,"endTime":1716.337,"body":"know, if you write something with"},{"startTime":1716.387,"endTime":1720.864,"body":"Ruby on Rails versus C, the energy"},{"startTime":1716.387,"endTime":1720.864,"body":"impact is like four x or something."},{"startTime":1721.269,"endTime":1722.289,"body":"It's it's quite remarkable."},{"startTime":1722.659,"endTime":1724.039,"body":"So I think that's one one element."},{"startTime":1724.339,"endTime":1728.1190000000001,"body":"I think also we we're going to see AI"},{"startTime":1724.339,"endTime":1728.1190000000001,"body":"really helping customers be more efficient"},{"startTime":1728.1190000000001,"endTime":1731.809,"body":"in how they consume energy and you know"},{"startTime":1728.1190000000001,"endTime":1731.809,"body":"how they cool the data center as well."},{"startTime":1731.8590000000002,"endTime":1734.209,"body":"So that will help on the consumption side."},{"startTime":1734.419,"endTime":1737.8990000000001,"body":"And I think that will make the data"},{"startTime":1734.419,"endTime":1737.8990000000001,"body":"centers net more efficient in, in"},{"startTime":1737.8990000000001,"endTime":1739.1290000000001,"body":"the long term than they are today."},{"startTime":1739.209,"endTime":1742.8690000000001,"body":"So overall, I think we're in this"},{"startTime":1739.209,"endTime":1742.8690000000001,"body":"situation over the next now and in the"},{"startTime":1742.8690000000001,"endTime":1746.874,"body":"next couple of years where we gotta"},{"startTime":1742.8690000000001,"endTime":1746.874,"body":"get renewables caught up and then a"},{"startTime":1746.874,"endTime":1749.919,"body":"brighter future with more efficient"},{"startTime":1746.874,"endTime":1749.919,"body":"data centers in the longer term."},{"startTime":1750.837,"endTime":1755.9370000000001,"body":"One other aspect I think that's"},{"startTime":1750.837,"endTime":1755.9370000000001,"body":"potentially important as well in terms"},{"startTime":1755.9370000000001,"endTime":1758.9940000000001,"body":"of AI is Google released AlphaChip."},{"startTime":1759.564,"endTime":1762.7340000000002,"body":"don't know if you came across"},{"startTime":1759.564,"endTime":1762.7340000000002,"body":"that, but AlphaChip is an AI"},{"startTime":1762.9840000000002,"endTime":1766.074,"body":"which designs chips for AI."},{"startTime":1766.334,"endTime":1769.334,"body":"Starting to get very meta and"},{"startTime":1766.334,"endTime":1769.334,"body":"makes them more efficient."},{"startTime":1769.334,"endTime":1773.814,"body":"And then you start getting, you will"},{"startTime":1769.334,"endTime":1773.814,"body":"start getting AI chips designed by"},{"startTime":1773.864,"endTime":1777.989,"body":"AlphaChip which then start designing"},{"startTime":1773.864,"endTime":1777.989,"body":"more chips that are even more"},{"startTime":1777.989,"endTime":1782.259,"body":"efficient and so we'll hopefully"},{"startTime":1777.989,"endTime":1782.259,"body":"start to get a positive reinforcement"},{"startTime":1782.259,"endTime":1783.509,"body":"loop happening there as well."},{"startTime":1783.509,"endTime":1789.659,"body":"But anyway, let's talk a little"},{"startTime":1783.509,"endTime":1789.659,"body":"bit about design, regulation,"},{"startTime":1789.689,"endTime":1791.529,"body":"future proofing of data centers."},{"startTime":1791.529,"endTime":1792.249,"body":"What do you think?"},{"startTime":1792.3790000000001,"endTime":1795.769,"body":"What do you think is the most"},{"startTime":1792.3790000000001,"endTime":1795.769,"body":"underrated decision in designing"},{"startTime":1795.809,"endTime":1797.419,"body":"a sustainable data center?"},{"startTime":1798.107,"endTime":1802.241,"body":"I think the most under exploited"},{"startTime":1798.107,"endTime":1802.241,"body":"opportunity in the data center and running"},{"startTime":1802.241,"endTime":1804.221,"body":"the data center is the data itself."},{"startTime":1804.281,"endTime":1805.3310000000001,"body":"The operational data."},{"startTime":1806.344,"endTime":1808.111,"body":"Let me let me divide that into two pieces."},{"startTime":1808.111,"endTime":1811.861,"body":"So when we think about how the"},{"startTime":1808.111,"endTime":1811.861,"body":"data center is run, it's really all"},{"startTime":1811.861,"endTime":1814.5910000000001,"body":"about making sure that you squeeze"},{"startTime":1811.861,"endTime":1814.5910000000001,"body":"out every watt of waste, right?"},{"startTime":1814.5910000000001,"endTime":1819.046,"body":"And to do that, you really need"},{"startTime":1814.5910000000001,"endTime":1819.046,"body":"to have a data centric approach."},{"startTime":1819.046,"endTime":1822.921,"body":"I mean, most of our customers"},{"startTime":1819.046,"endTime":1822.921,"body":"will, will tell us that they do not"},{"startTime":1822.921,"endTime":1825.861,"body":"believe that they can really drive"},{"startTime":1822.921,"endTime":1825.861,"body":"sustainability to the next level"},{"startTime":1825.861,"endTime":1830.121,"body":"without having some clear digital"},{"startTime":1825.861,"endTime":1830.121,"body":"transformation as part of that puzzle."},{"startTime":1830.391,"endTime":1834.351,"body":"So there's a lot of operational data"},{"startTime":1830.391,"endTime":1834.351,"body":"in a data center in, you know, in"},{"startTime":1834.351,"endTime":1837.8410000000001,"body":"any industrial context, but there's"},{"startTime":1834.351,"endTime":1837.8410000000001,"body":"a lot of operational data that"},{"startTime":1837.8410000000001,"endTime":1841.651,"body":"can point customers that can point"},{"startTime":1837.8410000000001,"endTime":1841.651,"body":"operators to ways of doing things"},{"startTime":1841.651,"endTime":1843.361,"body":"more efficiently and more effectively."},{"startTime":1843.717,"endTime":1847.9470000000001,"body":"If I look at the way we, build the data"},{"startTime":1843.717,"endTime":1847.9470000000001,"body":"centers today, you know, we we buy all"},{"startTime":1847.9470000000001,"endTime":1851.337,"body":"the equipment, we put it all together, and"},{"startTime":1847.9470000000001,"endTime":1851.337,"body":"then we buy a control system afterwards."},{"startTime":1851.9370000000001,"endTime":1854.037,"body":"And then we, we, we we use"},{"startTime":1851.9370000000001,"endTime":1854.037,"body":"that to get it all to work."},{"startTime":1854.037,"endTime":1859.237,"body":"So I think the the real untapped"},{"startTime":1854.037,"endTime":1859.237,"body":"benefit for data centers and running"},{"startTime":1859.237,"endTime":1860.737,"body":"data centers relates to the data."},{"startTime":1861.1870000000001,"endTime":1864.967,"body":"The second part of that I think that"},{"startTime":1861.1870000000001,"endTime":1864.967,"body":"I've I've started to sense is that"},{"startTime":1866.482,"endTime":1870.5620000000001,"body":"in data centers many, many different"},{"startTime":1866.482,"endTime":1870.5620000000001,"body":"technologies run together and they've"},{"startTime":1870.5620000000001,"endTime":1872.122,"body":"all got their control systems."},{"startTime":1872.5520000000001,"endTime":1874.112,"body":"And they all need to"},{"startTime":1872.5520000000001,"endTime":1874.112,"body":"communicate with each other."},{"startTime":1874.112,"endTime":1877.952,"body":"So there's a lot of APIs and"},{"startTime":1874.112,"endTime":1877.952,"body":"interapplication layers and"},{"startTime":1877.952,"endTime":1881.066,"body":"enterprise buses and all of this,"},{"startTime":1877.952,"endTime":1881.066,"body":"what would you call it, like lateral"},{"startTime":1881.376,"endTime":1882.816,"body":"data transfer between systems."},{"startTime":1882.816,"endTime":1884.526,"body":"And it becomes very complex very quickly."},{"startTime":1884.9660000000001,"endTime":1888.146,"body":"Perhaps in the future, we don't"},{"startTime":1884.9660000000001,"endTime":1888.146,"body":"do that with the applications."},{"startTime":1888.266,"endTime":1891.116,"body":"We just have all the applications"},{"startTime":1888.266,"endTime":1891.116,"body":"addressing the same data set."},{"startTime":1891.7740000000001,"endTime":1894.174,"body":"So the interoperability"},{"startTime":1891.7740000000001,"endTime":1894.174,"body":"happens in the data."},{"startTime":1894.444,"endTime":1897.684,"body":"It becomes part of the data set"},{"startTime":1894.444,"endTime":1897.684,"body":"and not part of the application."},{"startTime":1897.924,"endTime":1902.334,"body":"So if, system A sends some information"},{"startTime":1897.924,"endTime":1902.334,"body":"or detects something, it makes it"},{"startTime":1902.334,"endTime":1905.6490000000001,"body":"available in the data set, everybody"},{"startTime":1902.334,"endTime":1905.6490000000001,"body":"else can read it, that's it."},{"startTime":1905.6490000000001,"endTime":1908.806,"body":"So you don't have to get into, and"},{"startTime":1905.6490000000001,"endTime":1908.806,"body":"I I don't wanna oversimplify it Tom,"},{"startTime":1908.806,"endTime":1912.046,"body":"'cause I'm not a software engineer, or"},{"startTime":1908.806,"endTime":1912.046,"body":"I haven't been for a long time, but, but"},{"startTime":1912.046,"endTime":1915.886,"body":"you don't have to get into this kind of"},{"startTime":1912.046,"endTime":1915.886,"body":"proprietary, my system doesn't work with"},{"startTime":1915.886,"endTime":1918.4660000000001,"body":"your system, holding back this innovation."},{"startTime":1918.4660000000001,"endTime":1924.226,"body":"So at Siemens, we really want to"},{"startTime":1918.4660000000001,"endTime":1924.226,"body":"advocate for the open protocol type"},{"startTime":1924.616,"endTime":1929.6860000000001,"body":"data strategy for our customers, and"},{"startTime":1924.616,"endTime":1929.6860000000001,"body":"we think that the digitalisation of"},{"startTime":1929.6860000000001,"endTime":1931.276,"body":"their operations will require that."},{"startTime":1931.606,"endTime":1935.386,"body":"And we also think that as operations"},{"startTime":1931.606,"endTime":1935.386,"body":"get digitised, they inherently become"},{"startTime":1935.386,"endTime":1937.486,"body":"more efficient, ergo more sustainable."},{"startTime":1938.401,"endTime":1939.211,"body":"I tend to agree."},{"startTime":1940.001,"endTime":1946.441,"body":"How much of your work now is shaped by"},{"startTime":1940.001,"endTime":1946.441,"body":"regulatory requirements versus client"},{"startTime":1946.481,"endTime":1949.491,"body":"demand versus internal climate goals?"},{"startTime":1950.2720000000002,"endTime":1953.452,"body":"Right now, honestly, Tom, the dominant"},{"startTime":1950.2720000000002,"endTime":1953.452,"body":"factor is client demand for sure."},{"startTime":1953.887,"endTime":1954.1870000000001,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1954.1870000000001,"endTime":1958.867,"body":"The the data center industry is still in a"},{"startTime":1954.1870000000001,"endTime":1958.867,"body":"in, in a very, very buoyant growth phase."},{"startTime":1958.867,"endTime":1960.367,"body":"And it's not just about AI, right?"},{"startTime":1960.367,"endTime":1963.487,"body":"AI is still a relatively small"},{"startTime":1960.367,"endTime":1963.487,"body":"part of the overall industry."},{"startTime":1963.9070000000002,"endTime":1967.4470000000001,"body":"Demand for services is what's driving"},{"startTime":1963.9070000000002,"endTime":1967.4470000000001,"body":"the industry and and what's driving us."},{"startTime":1967.627,"endTime":1970.027,"body":"But the second part of your question"},{"startTime":1967.627,"endTime":1970.027,"body":"is, is, is really interesting."},{"startTime":1970.027,"endTime":1976.507,"body":"I mean, I think that regulation is"},{"startTime":1970.027,"endTime":1976.507,"body":"certainly changing the landscape"},{"startTime":1976.507,"endTime":1980.905,"body":"for how our customers look at their"},{"startTime":1976.507,"endTime":1980.905,"body":"data centers from the operational"},{"startTime":1980.905,"endTime":1982.7050000000002,"body":"phase onwards, and it's required."},{"startTime":1982.7050000000002,"endTime":1983.875,"body":"We go back to data, right?"},{"startTime":1984.135,"endTime":1988.335,"body":"You know, the the European Energy"},{"startTime":1984.135,"endTime":1988.335,"body":"Directive, it demands that center"},{"startTime":1988.335,"endTime":1994.035,"body":"operators have access to an up-to-date"},{"startTime":1988.335,"endTime":1994.035,"body":"data on what's going on in their data"},{"startTime":1994.035,"endTime":1997.545,"body":"center from a resource perspective,"},{"startTime":1994.035,"endTime":1997.545,"body":"from a, an energy perspective and a"},{"startTime":1997.545,"endTime":1999.7350000000001,"body":"sustainability perspective at large."},{"startTime":2000.275,"endTime":2003.635,"body":"Interestingly, it doesn't"},{"startTime":2000.275,"endTime":2003.635,"body":"necessarily demand performance yet."},{"startTime":2004.025,"endTime":2005.4650000000001,"body":"That's the journey that the industry's on."},{"startTime":2005.4650000000001,"endTime":2008.615,"body":"Like many industries, we're really"},{"startTime":2005.4650000000001,"endTime":2008.615,"body":"trying to get get our heads around what"},{"startTime":2008.615,"endTime":2012.7150000000001,"body":"data we need you know, to drive more,"},{"startTime":2008.615,"endTime":2012.7150000000001,"body":"responsible sustainability behavior."},{"startTime":2013.055,"endTime":2014.435,"body":"But that will come in time."},{"startTime":2014.928,"endTime":2019.518,"body":"The regulation and and the legislation"},{"startTime":2014.928,"endTime":2019.518,"body":"this is a topic that I I, I enjoy as well."},{"startTime":2020.6280000000002,"endTime":2024.708,"body":"So one of the leading industry"},{"startTime":2020.6280000000002,"endTime":2024.708,"body":"commentators Uptime Institute just"},{"startTime":2024.708,"endTime":2028.308,"body":"just published something, I think, last"},{"startTime":2024.708,"endTime":2028.308,"body":"week posing the question, you know,"},{"startTime":2028.338,"endTime":2032.204,"body":"with the advent of the new, the new"},{"startTime":2028.338,"endTime":2032.204,"body":"administration in the US, do the US"},{"startTime":2032.384,"endTime":2035.784,"body":"data center operators take their foot"},{"startTime":2032.384,"endTime":2035.784,"body":"off the gas, if you pardon the pun."},{"startTime":2036.424,"endTime":2040.2340000000002,"body":"Yes, perhaps they could, but Uptime"},{"startTime":2036.424,"endTime":2040.2340000000002,"body":"would contend, and we would agree, that"},{"startTime":2040.518,"endTime":2044.1180000000002,"body":"probably not the wisest idea, because"},{"startTime":2040.518,"endTime":2044.1180000000002,"body":"still in, in, you know, in the US"},{"startTime":2044.1180000000002,"endTime":2047.481,"body":"there's state level legislation that's"},{"startTime":2044.1180000000002,"endTime":2047.481,"body":"going to have to be complied with."},{"startTime":2047.961,"endTime":2053.6059999999998,"body":"But more importantly, the data center's"},{"startTime":2047.961,"endTime":2053.6059999999998,"body":"customers, the people who buy their"},{"startTime":2053.6059999999998,"endTime":2058.796,"body":"services and the stakeholders, the"},{"startTime":2053.6059999999998,"endTime":2058.796,"body":"people who live around them will still"},{"startTime":2059.066,"endTime":2063.803,"body":"want to see responsible behavior, So"},{"startTime":2059.066,"endTime":2063.803,"body":"whether it's driven, through legislation"},{"startTime":2064.103,"endTime":2068.133,"body":"or driven through other methods, the"},{"startTime":2064.103,"endTime":2068.133,"body":"requirement to be sustainable, to be"},{"startTime":2068.133,"endTime":2070.533,"body":"responsible is still very much there."},{"startTime":2070.743,"endTime":2074.446,"body":"Now, we see the European Union taking"},{"startTime":2070.743,"endTime":2074.446,"body":"a very forward approach with this."},{"startTime":2074.696,"endTime":2077.156,"body":"We're starting to see it in,"},{"startTime":2074.696,"endTime":2077.156,"body":"in Saudi Arabia, for example,"},{"startTime":2077.156,"endTime":2078.416,"body":"there's new legislation coming."},{"startTime":2078.626,"endTime":2083.896,"body":"Malaysia, China, many, many geographies"},{"startTime":2078.626,"endTime":2083.896,"body":"are starting to legislate around"},{"startTime":2083.926,"endTime":2085.846,"body":"energy consumption in their economies."},{"startTime":2086.056,"endTime":2088.876,"body":"And they're starting to look to data"},{"startTime":2086.056,"endTime":2088.876,"body":"centers as one of the big loads to be"},{"startTime":2088.876,"endTime":2091.131,"body":"able to account for their performance."},{"startTime":2091.341,"endTime":2094.761,"body":"So I think right now, the"},{"startTime":2091.341,"endTime":2094.761,"body":"challenge in legislation is being"},{"startTime":2094.761,"endTime":2096.681,"body":"able to measure what we've got."},{"startTime":2096.931,"endTime":2099.571,"body":"I think in the future then we"},{"startTime":2096.931,"endTime":2099.571,"body":"will start to see more KPIs."},{"startTime":2099.811,"endTime":2101.761,"body":"But legislation levels the playing field."},{"startTime":2102.061,"endTime":2106.1910000000003,"body":"Overall, I think regulation"},{"startTime":2102.061,"endTime":2106.1910000000003,"body":"and legislation is generally a"},{"startTime":2106.1910000000003,"endTime":2110.956,"body":"positive intervention, if it's"},{"startTime":2106.1910000000003,"endTime":2110.956,"body":"done properly, and if it's done"},{"startTime":2111.001,"endTime":2112.351,"body":"in conjunction with the industry,"},{"startTime":2113.491,"endTime":2113.891,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2114.771,"endTime":2116.891,"body":"Switching gears again,"},{"startTime":2114.771,"endTime":2116.891,"body":"you're, you're from Ireland."},{"startTime":2116.901,"endTime":2117.521,"body":"Like I am."},{"startTime":2118.571,"endTime":2126.321,"body":"I credit that in part, at least"},{"startTime":2118.571,"endTime":2126.321,"body":"with my love of sustainability."},{"startTime":2126.661,"endTime":2127.351,"body":"What about yourself?"},{"startTime":2127.351,"endTime":2130.291,"body":"Do you think it's shaped your thinking"},{"startTime":2127.351,"endTime":2130.291,"body":"on sustainability and innovation?"},{"startTime":2131.193,"endTime":2131.913,"body":"Very, very, much."},{"startTime":2131.913,"endTime":2136.563,"body":"And I think that, you know, many people"},{"startTime":2131.913,"endTime":2136.563,"body":"that I work with and and I meet, you"},{"startTime":2136.563,"endTime":2140.559,"body":"know, are are, you know, many people I"},{"startTime":2136.563,"endTime":2140.559,"body":"meet are pursuing studies and they're,"},{"startTime":2140.559,"endTime":2142.089,"body":"they're reading up on sustainability."},{"startTime":2142.089,"endTime":2145.299,"body":"I, don't, you know, I don't want"},{"startTime":2142.089,"endTime":2145.299,"body":"to say that I'm a a fanatic."},{"startTime":2146.2690000000002,"endTime":2150.409,"body":"But, but what I do want to, I'm not,"},{"startTime":2146.2690000000002,"endTime":2150.409,"body":"like, seriously, I'm not, my, my car."},{"startTime":2150.409,"endTime":2151.669,"body":"I don't drive an electric car yet."},{"startTime":2152.039,"endTime":2155.279,"body":"And we can debate about whether that"},{"startTime":2152.039,"endTime":2155.279,"body":"would be sustainable or not, you know,"},{"startTime":2155.279,"endTime":2160.0190000000002,"body":"on another podcast, but, but I do want to"},{"startTime":2155.279,"endTime":2160.0190000000002,"body":"understand, and I think, I think we all"},{"startTime":2160.0190000000002,"endTime":2165.969,"body":"want to understand, and something that I"},{"startTime":2160.0190000000002,"endTime":2165.969,"body":"think about when I talk to customers or"},{"startTime":2165.969,"endTime":2169.629,"body":"or or engage with people on the subject of"},{"startTime":2165.969,"endTime":2169.629,"body":"sustainability, we can talk, you know, we"},{"startTime":2169.629,"endTime":2173.919,"body":"talk about what we do and Siemens we're,"},{"startTime":2169.629,"endTime":2173.919,"body":"you know, we are really working hard to"},{"startTime":2173.919,"endTime":2178.449,"body":"be part of the sustainability equation"},{"startTime":2173.919,"endTime":2178.449,"body":"for our customers across many industries."},{"startTime":2179.134,"endTime":2179.8540000000003,"body":"on the planet."},{"startTime":2180.244,"endTime":2181.114,"body":"It's still going up."},{"startTime":2181.864,"endTime":2183.154,"body":"hasn't slowed down, right?"},{"startTime":2183.184,"endTime":2185.909,"body":"And we've been talking about"},{"startTime":2183.184,"endTime":2185.909,"body":"this now for probably 20 years."},{"startTime":2186.129,"endTime":2187.549,"body":"I'm disappointed with COP."},{"startTime":2187.969,"endTime":2191.009,"body":"I'm disappointed with the"},{"startTime":2187.969,"endTime":2191.009,"body":"fact that governments can't"},{"startTime":2191.039,"endTime":2193.379,"body":"collectively agree on ways forward."},{"startTime":2193.589,"endTime":2196.829,"body":"I'm concerned that, you know, maybe"},{"startTime":2193.589,"endTime":2196.829,"body":"democracy isn't even fit for purpose"},{"startTime":2196.829,"endTime":2198.149,"body":"for the challenge we have ahead of us."},{"startTime":2198.449,"endTime":2200.219,"body":"But what I wanna do now is inform myself."},{"startTime":2200.219,"endTime":2204.6330000000003,"body":"And I think my generation, this"},{"startTime":2200.219,"endTime":2204.6330000000003,"body":"generation, that's gotta be one"},{"startTime":2204.6330000000003,"endTime":2207.513,"body":"of our missions is to make sure we"},{"startTime":2204.6330000000003,"endTime":2207.513,"body":"understand this so we can pass on a good"},{"startTime":2207.513,"endTime":2210.463,"body":"understanding to the next generation"},{"startTime":2207.513,"endTime":2210.463,"body":"and they're already on it anyway."},{"startTime":2210.463,"endTime":2211.933,"body":"I see that with my, with my daughters."},{"startTime":2212.1730000000002,"endTime":2213.8830000000003,"body":"They're much more"},{"startTime":2212.1730000000002,"endTime":2213.8830000000003,"body":"sustainably aware than I am."},{"startTime":2214.753,"endTime":2216.233,"body":"Fair, good, good to hear."},{"startTime":2216.6730000000002,"endTime":2220.573,"body":"And speaking of Ireland, Siemens has"},{"startTime":2216.6730000000002,"endTime":2220.573,"body":"been in Ireland for now a hundred years."},{"startTime":2220.573,"endTime":2222.6330000000003,"body":"Congratulations on that milestone."},{"startTime":2223.303,"endTime":2226.972,"body":"Starting, if I read correctly,"},{"startTime":2223.303,"endTime":2226.972,"body":"it started with the Ardnacrusha"},{"startTime":2226.993,"endTime":2231.683,"body":"project, the electrification of"},{"startTime":2226.993,"endTime":2231.683,"body":"Ireland back in 1925, thereabouts."},{"startTime":2232.183,"endTime":2236.603,"body":"How do you think that legacy"},{"startTime":2232.183,"endTime":2236.603,"body":"influences how Siemens shows"},{"startTime":2236.603,"endTime":2238.093,"body":"up in sustainability today?"},{"startTime":2238.738,"endTime":2242.168,"body":"I think the Siemens heritage obviously"},{"startTime":2238.738,"endTime":2242.168,"body":"a hundred years is is, is a long time."},{"startTime":2242.168,"endTime":2244.058,"body":"And in fact, Siemens had"},{"startTime":2242.168,"endTime":2244.058,"body":"been participating in the"},{"startTime":2244.058,"endTime":2245.318,"body":"Irish economy before that."},{"startTime":2245.318,"endTime":2248.7780000000002,"body":"It was formed you know, a hundred"},{"startTime":2245.318,"endTime":2248.7780000000002,"body":"years ago with the Ardnacrusha project."},{"startTime":2248.828,"endTime":2251.828,"body":"We would like to think, I as Siemens,"},{"startTime":2248.828,"endTime":2251.828,"body":"we would like to think that we have"},{"startTime":2251.828,"endTime":2255.7780000000002,"body":"been one of the key contributors"},{"startTime":2251.828,"endTime":2255.7780000000002,"body":"to driving the economy forward"},{"startTime":2255.7780000000002,"endTime":2259.738,"body":"all through those 100 years, and"},{"startTime":2255.7780000000002,"endTime":2259.738,"body":"particularly around electrification."},{"startTime":2260.098,"endTime":2261.898,"body":"Electrification transformed economies."},{"startTime":2261.898,"endTime":2267.058,"body":"Electrification is still considered to be"},{"startTime":2261.898,"endTime":2267.058,"body":"a transformative element of any economy."},{"startTime":2267.2780000000002,"endTime":2269.0480000000002,"body":"And we're going to see, you"},{"startTime":2267.2780000000002,"endTime":2269.0480000000002,"body":"know, we're going to see much,"},{"startTime":2269.0480000000002,"endTime":2270.248,"body":"much more electrification."},{"startTime":2270.458,"endTime":2274.693,"body":"I think our heritage in, in being that,"},{"startTime":2270.458,"endTime":2274.693,"body":"It being in, participating in that"},{"startTime":2274.693,"endTime":2277.1730000000002,"body":"nation building role stands to us well."},{"startTime":2277.178,"endTime":2279.783,"body":"And, and it, it gives us a lot of"},{"startTime":2277.178,"endTime":2279.783,"body":"credibility in the market today."},{"startTime":2279.783,"endTime":2284.163,"body":"And we still work with many of those"},{"startTime":2279.783,"endTime":2284.163,"body":"cus we still work with the ESB, the"},{"startTime":2284.163,"endTime":2285.783,"body":"electricity supply board here in Ireland."},{"startTime":2286.053,"endTime":2289.293,"body":"We're still a you know, a very"},{"startTime":2286.053,"endTime":2289.293,"body":"significant partner for them as"},{"startTime":2289.293,"endTime":2292.723,"body":"they build out the next generation"},{"startTime":2289.293,"endTime":2292.723,"body":"grid and power infrastructure."},{"startTime":2292.723,"endTime":2296.318,"body":"And and obviously at Siemens, we're very"},{"startTime":2292.723,"endTime":2296.318,"body":"proud to be there, but yeah, the heritage"},{"startTime":2296.318,"endTime":2299.318,"body":"means a lot to Siemens and it means a"},{"startTime":2296.318,"endTime":2299.318,"body":"lot to Siemens employees in Ireland."},{"startTime":2299.318,"endTime":2302.408,"body":"Now I'm only here three years, so I"},{"startTime":2299.318,"endTime":2302.408,"body":"can't claim any credit for it, but,"},{"startTime":2302.408,"endTime":2306.158,"body":"but still it, it, it feels good to"},{"startTime":2302.408,"endTime":2306.158,"body":"be part of a company that's been so"},{"startTime":2306.158,"endTime":2309.878,"body":"much a part of the development of"},{"startTime":2306.158,"endTime":2309.878,"body":"the economy over such a long term."},{"startTime":2310.773,"endTime":2311.213,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2311.253,"endTime":2317.563,"body":"And the tech report outlines a lot of"},{"startTime":2311.253,"endTime":2317.563,"body":"sectoral crossover, pharma, food, energy."},{"startTime":2317.983,"endTime":2321.553,"body":"What do data centers need to learn"},{"startTime":2317.983,"endTime":2321.553,"body":"from other sectors right now?"},{"startTime":2323.393,"endTime":2324.413,"body":"Yeah, it's a good point."},{"startTime":2324.413,"endTime":2327.453,"body":"In fact, I was talking to"},{"startTime":2324.413,"endTime":2327.453,"body":"a customer very recently."},{"startTime":2327.483,"endTime":2329.913,"body":"And we were talking about doing a"},{"startTime":2327.483,"endTime":2329.913,"body":"technology day, and I was saying to"},{"startTime":2329.913,"endTime":2334.289,"body":"him, we, we will go to one of your data"},{"startTime":2329.913,"endTime":2334.289,"body":"centers and we will, we'll, bring in"},{"startTime":2334.289,"endTime":2337.289,"body":"our, our organisation, our technology"},{"startTime":2334.289,"endTime":2337.289,"body":"people and your technology people."},{"startTime":2337.649,"endTime":2339.2690000000002,"body":"And he said to me, Ciaran,"},{"startTime":2337.649,"endTime":2339.2690000000002,"body":"lemme stop you right there."},{"startTime":2340.004,"endTime":2341.174,"body":"Let's not go to a data center."},{"startTime":2341.174,"endTime":2342.344,"body":"We've seen enough data centers."},{"startTime":2342.344,"endTime":2344.434,"body":"Can we go to a, a bottling plant?"},{"startTime":2344.434,"endTime":2346.544,"body":"Can we go to an airline factory?"},{"startTime":2346.544,"endTime":2348.164,"body":"Can we go to a trail maintenance yard?"},{"startTime":2348.164,"endTime":2351.884,"body":"Can we go somewhere else so"},{"startTime":2348.164,"endTime":2351.884,"body":"we can see what's going on?"},{"startTime":2352.154,"endTime":2355.904,"body":"And a good example is you know, one"},{"startTime":2352.154,"endTime":2355.904,"body":"of the big, big automotive companies,"},{"startTime":2356.404,"endTime":2360.274,"body":"they've now started deploying this new"},{"startTime":2356.404,"endTime":2360.274,"body":"technology we've got called Virtual PLC."},{"startTime":2361.549,"endTime":2365.029,"body":"So it's like the, the old PLC in a box,"},{"startTime":2361.549,"endTime":2365.029,"body":"but now, now it's a virtual instance"},{"startTime":2365.029,"endTime":2366.349,"body":"on a, on a, on a computing device."},{"startTime":2366.629,"endTime":2368.489,"body":"And they've learned a lot,"},{"startTime":2366.629,"endTime":2368.489,"body":"and they're learning a lot"},{"startTime":2368.489,"endTime":2370.079,"body":"about what Virtual PLC means."},{"startTime":2370.379,"endTime":2373.469,"body":"And we've started to, to connect some"},{"startTime":2370.379,"endTime":2373.469,"body":"of our customers in industry with"},{"startTime":2373.469,"endTime":2374.759,"body":"some of our data center customers."},{"startTime":2375.089,"endTime":2376.559,"body":"And it's, it's remarkable."},{"startTime":2376.619,"endTime":2379.109,"body":"It's it's really remarkable"},{"startTime":2376.619,"endTime":2379.109,"body":"how the crossover happens."},{"startTime":2379.169,"endTime":2382.649,"body":"And I think it's kind of a unique value"},{"startTime":2379.169,"endTime":2382.649,"body":"that Siemens and and a couple of other,"},{"startTime":2382.859,"endTime":2386.849,"body":"let's say, large multinational players"},{"startTime":2382.859,"endTime":2386.849,"body":"like us have, in that we can introduce"},{"startTime":2386.849,"endTime":2391.4990000000003,"body":"customers from different industries to"},{"startTime":2386.849,"endTime":2391.4990000000003,"body":"talk to each other and learn from each"},{"startTime":2391.4990000000003,"endTime":2394.909,"body":"other, because some of the, some of"},{"startTime":2391.4990000000003,"endTime":2394.909,"body":"the challenges we have in data centers,"},{"startTime":2395.539,"endTime":2397.079,"body":"it's a relatively new industry, Tom."},{"startTime":2397.139,"endTime":2400.409,"body":"They're they're relatively new challenges"},{"startTime":2397.139,"endTime":2400.409,"body":"They've, they've perhaps been solved"},{"startTime":2400.409,"endTime":2402.029,"body":"by older, more established industries."},{"startTime":2402.509,"endTime":2404.039,"body":"So, yeah, it's it's a"},{"startTime":2402.509,"endTime":2404.039,"body":"great opportunity for us."},{"startTime":2404.039,"endTime":2405.239,"body":"And there is a lot of crossover."},{"startTime":2405.599,"endTime":2405.869,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2406.669,"endTime":2406.959,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":2407.039,"endTime":2407.439,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":2407.7690000000002,"endTime":2412.589,"body":"If, Ciaran, if you had unlimited resources"},{"startTime":2407.7690000000002,"endTime":2412.589,"body":"and zero constraints, what's the dream"},{"startTime":2413.469,"endTime":2415.739,"body":"data center innovation you'd create?"},{"startTime":2416.308,"endTime":2418.888,"body":"I go back to being able to"},{"startTime":2416.308,"endTime":2418.888,"body":"power all of the world's data"},{"startTime":2418.888,"endTime":2420.088,"body":"centers with renewable energy."},{"startTime":2420.991,"endTime":2424.831,"body":"That's where we, where we, we"},{"startTime":2420.991,"endTime":2424.831,"body":"just absolutely nearly eliminate"},{"startTime":2424.831,"endTime":2427.901,"body":"all of the impact and then all"},{"startTime":2424.831,"endTime":2427.901,"body":"of the benefit is net benefit."},{"startTime":2427.901,"endTime":2431.511,"body":"That, that for me, the renewables you"},{"startTime":2427.901,"endTime":2431.511,"body":"know, and, and, and being able to manage"},{"startTime":2431.511,"endTime":2434.301,"body":"renewables and being able to drive energy"},{"startTime":2431.511,"endTime":2434.301,"body":"efficiency, that, that's where it's at."},{"startTime":2434.301,"endTime":2439.491,"body":"But yeah, if, if unlimited resources and"},{"startTime":2434.301,"endTime":2439.491,"body":"yeah, a a world where all data centers"},{"startTime":2439.491,"endTime":2440.991,"body":"are are powered by renewable energy."},{"startTime":2441.6710000000003,"endTime":2442.2110000000002,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":2442.261,"endTime":2442.531,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":2443.491,"endTime":2444.391,"body":"Left field question."},{"startTime":2445.281,"endTime":2449.291,"body":"If you could have any person"},{"startTime":2445.281,"endTime":2449.291,"body":"or character alive or dead?"},{"startTime":2449.606,"endTime":2456.036,"body":"real or fictional as a spokesperson"},{"startTime":2449.606,"endTime":2456.036,"body":"for sustainable data centers or"},{"startTime":2456.036,"endTime":2459.956,"body":"an evangelist for sustainable data"},{"startTime":2456.036,"endTime":2459.956,"body":"centers, who would it be and why?"},{"startTime":2460.628,"endTime":2463.056,"body":"Ooh, That's a great question, Tom."},{"startTime":2463.451,"endTime":2468.564,"body":"you know, I kind of think that the"},{"startTime":2463.451,"endTime":2468.564,"body":"spokespersons for the industry."},{"startTime":2468.564,"endTime":2472.914,"body":"I think we will really say we will"},{"startTime":2468.564,"endTime":2472.914,"body":"really have have crossed the Rubicon"},{"startTime":2472.914,"endTime":2476.724,"body":"in, in terms of making sure that we're"},{"startTime":2472.914,"endTime":2476.724,"body":"we're fully understood when we get"},{"startTime":2476.724,"endTime":2479.214,"body":"communities advocating on our behalf."},{"startTime":2479.8740000000003,"endTime":2480.1440000000002,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2480.1440000000002,"endTime":2485.6240000000003,"body":"So the spokesperson for the industry"},{"startTime":2480.1440000000002,"endTime":2485.6240000000003,"body":"is probably somebody in a region or"},{"startTime":2485.6240000000003,"endTime":2489.884,"body":"a county or a county council or a,"},{"startTime":2485.6240000000003,"endTime":2489.884,"body":"a local authority who's been trying"},{"startTime":2489.884,"endTime":2494.174,"body":"to, you know, make sustainability"},{"startTime":2489.884,"endTime":2494.174,"body":"happen and sees sees data centers as"},{"startTime":2494.174,"endTime":2497.294,"body":"being, you know, a really good answer"},{"startTime":2494.174,"endTime":2497.294,"body":"to the sustainability challenge."},{"startTime":2497.504,"endTime":2501.044,"body":"So for me, it's not a superstar, it's not"},{"startTime":2497.504,"endTime":2501.044,"body":"a politician, it's more the local voice."},{"startTime":2501.044,"endTime":2503.3540000000003,"body":"When the local voice comes through,"},{"startTime":2501.044,"endTime":2503.3540000000003,"body":"I think that would be a great."},{"startTime":2503.6240000000003,"endTime":2506.024,"body":"A great, you know, a great"},{"startTime":2503.6240000000003,"endTime":2506.024,"body":"advocate and a great spokesperson."},{"startTime":2506.544,"endTime":2506.8940000000002,"body":"Nice one."},{"startTime":2507.424,"endTime":2511.024,"body":"Okay, we're coming towards the end"},{"startTime":2507.424,"endTime":2511.024,"body":"of the podcast now Ciaran, is there"},{"startTime":2511.024,"endTime":2515.864,"body":"any question I did not ask that"},{"startTime":2511.024,"endTime":2515.864,"body":"you wish I did or aspect of this we"},{"startTime":2515.864,"endTime":2518.484,"body":"haven't touched on that you think it's"},{"startTime":2515.864,"endTime":2518.484,"body":"important for people to think about?"},{"startTime":2519.273,"endTime":2520.893,"body":"No, you've asked them,"},{"startTime":2519.273,"endTime":2520.893,"body":"We, we've touched on them."},{"startTime":2521.193,"endTime":2523.113,"body":"Absolutely, we've touched"},{"startTime":2521.193,"endTime":2523.113,"body":"on touched on them."},{"startTime":2523.113,"endTime":2526.1730000000002,"body":"I think that you know, the data center"},{"startTime":2523.113,"endTime":2526.1730000000002,"body":"industry and the technology industry at"},{"startTime":2526.1730000000002,"endTime":2530.496,"body":"large, and we're, you know, we're seeing"},{"startTime":2526.1730000000002,"endTime":2530.496,"body":"it now with what AI can do for medicine,"},{"startTime":2530.526,"endTime":2533.136,"body":"what it can do for agriculture, We're,"},{"startTime":2530.526,"endTime":2533.136,"body":"you know, we're we're, we're very much"},{"startTime":2533.136,"endTime":2538.896,"body":"at the the beginning of a kind of a new"},{"startTime":2533.136,"endTime":2538.896,"body":"era of accelerated computing, bringing"},{"startTime":2538.926,"endTime":2542.346,"body":"accelerated benefit to society at large."},{"startTime":2542.621,"endTime":2546.2960000000003,"body":"And, And I suppose we get into the"},{"startTime":2542.621,"endTime":2546.2960000000003,"body":"philosophical debates and you made"},{"startTime":2546.2960000000003,"endTime":2547.886,"body":"the point about chips designing chips."},{"startTime":2547.966,"endTime":2550.8160000000003,"body":"I remember years ago being in"},{"startTime":2547.966,"endTime":2550.8160000000003,"body":"a, in a factory where robots"},{"startTime":2550.8160000000003,"endTime":2554.101,"body":"were manufacturing robots, which"},{"startTime":2550.8160000000003,"endTime":2554.101,"body":"kind of freaked me out as well."},{"startTime":2554.594,"endTime":2557.261,"body":"You know, I think the optimism is"},{"startTime":2554.594,"endTime":2557.261,"body":"important, and I think that, as a"},{"startTime":2557.261,"endTime":2560.991,"body":"society we're on this technology"},{"startTime":2557.261,"endTime":2560.991,"body":"journey, we've been on it for 30 years,"},{"startTime":2560.991,"endTime":2563.031,"body":"we're gonna be on it for forever more."},{"startTime":2563.101,"endTime":2566.861,"body":"And embracing what technology can do"},{"startTime":2563.101,"endTime":2566.861,"body":"for us is really, really important."},{"startTime":2566.861,"endTime":2569.451,"body":"And I think for me as somebody"},{"startTime":2566.861,"endTime":2569.451,"body":"who's in the industry, that's"},{"startTime":2569.451,"endTime":2570.531,"body":"what I try to advocate for."},{"startTime":2570.531,"endTime":2574.154,"body":"So we covered the topic, but"},{"startTime":2570.531,"endTime":2574.154,"body":"yeah, optimism and and curiosity"},{"startTime":2574.619,"endTime":2575.886,"body":"will define the future for us."},{"startTime":2576.731,"endTime":2577.311,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":2577.311,"endTime":2581.631,"body":"Okay, Ciaran . if people would like to"},{"startTime":2577.311,"endTime":2581.631,"body":"know more about yourself or any of the"},{"startTime":2581.641,"endTime":2584.4610000000002,"body":"things we discussed in the podcast today,"},{"startTime":2581.641,"endTime":2584.4610000000002,"body":"where would you have me direct them?"},{"startTime":2585.453,"endTime":2587.723,"body":"Well, you can hit me up on"},{"startTime":2585.453,"endTime":2587.723,"body":"LinkedIn Ciaran Flanagan."},{"startTime":2588.413,"endTime":2590.233,"body":"Ciaran, Flanagan, all"},{"startTime":2588.413,"endTime":2590.233,"body":"one word on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":2590.543,"endTime":2592.513,"body":"And then obviously"},{"startTime":2590.543,"endTime":2592.513,"body":"siemens.com data center."},{"startTime":2592.513,"endTime":2595.193,"body":"You'll find everything we do for data"},{"startTime":2592.513,"endTime":2595.193,"body":"centers and data center customers."},{"startTime":2596.063,"endTime":2597.908,"body":"Great, I'll put those links"},{"startTime":2596.063,"endTime":2597.908,"body":"in the show notes as well."},{"startTime":2597.908,"endTime":2599.488,"body":"So everyone has access to them."},{"startTime":2600.018,"endTime":2601.368,"body":"Ciaran, that's been fascinating."},{"startTime":2601.428,"endTime":2602.998,"body":"Thanks a million for coming"},{"startTime":2601.428,"endTime":2602.998,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"startTime":2603.863,"endTime":2604.343,"body":"Thank you, Tom."},{"startTime":2604.343,"endTime":2604.853,"body":"It was a pleasure."},{"startTime":2604.853,"endTime":2605.783,"body":"It really was a real pleasure."},{"startTime":2605.783,"endTime":2606.143,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2606.9990000000003,"endTime":2608.869,"body":"Okay, we've come to the end of the show."},{"startTime":2609.589,"endTime":2610.699,"body":"Thanks everyone for listening."},{"startTime":2611.559,"endTime":2615.709,"body":"If you'd like to know more about the"},{"startTime":2611.559,"endTime":2615.709,"body":"Climate Confident podcast, feel free to"},{"startTime":2615.719,"endTime":2619.629,"body":"drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook."},{"startTime":2619.879,"endTime":2623.359,"body":"com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter."},{"startTime":2623.929,"endTime":2627.669,"body":"If you like the show, please don't"},{"startTime":2623.929,"endTime":2627.669,"body":"forget to click follow on it in your"},{"startTime":2627.689,"endTime":2632.169,"body":"podcast application of choice to get new"},{"startTime":2627.689,"endTime":2632.169,"body":"episodes as soon as they're published."},{"startTime":2632.799,"endTime":2635.759,"body":"Also, please don't forget to"},{"startTime":2632.799,"endTime":2635.759,"body":"rate and review the podcast."},{"startTime":2635.959,"endTime":2638.489,"body":"It really does help new"},{"startTime":2635.959,"endTime":2638.489,"body":"people to find the show."},{"startTime":2639.579,"endTime":2640.029,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":2640.699,"endTime":2641.619,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}