{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":3.51,"endTime":8.31,"body":"There's a price."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":3.51,"endTime":8.31,"body":"At some point, you'll we'll say"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":8.37,"endTime":12.15,"body":"this is important that we do it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":8.37,"endTime":12.15,"body":"because nature is going to have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":12.15,"endTime":16.11,"body":"a very tough time keeping up"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":12.15,"endTime":16.11,"body":"with human emissions really"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":16.11,"endTime":21.0,"body":"does. So we got to bring every"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":16.11,"endTime":21.0,"body":"tool we have to do this exercise"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":21.0,"endTime":22.23,"body":"every single quarter."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.17,"endTime":27.09,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":25.17,"endTime":27.09,"body":"afternoon or good evening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.09,"endTime":30.81,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":27.09,"endTime":30.81,"body":"This is the climate 21 podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.87,"endTime":33.96,"body":"the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.87,"endTime":33.96,"body":"showcasing best practices and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.96,"endTime":37.29,"body":"climate emissions reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.96,"endTime":37.29,"body":"And I'm your host, global Vice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.29,"endTime":42.12,"body":"President for SAP. Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.29,"endTime":42.12,"body":"Climate 21 is the name of an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.12,"endTime":45.96,"body":"initiative by SAP to allow our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.12,"endTime":45.96,"body":"customers calculate, report and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.96,"endTime":49.68,"body":"reduce their greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.96,"endTime":49.68,"body":"emissions. In this climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.68,"endTime":53.34,"body":"podcast, I will showcase best"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.68,"endTime":53.34,"body":"practices and thought leadership"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.34,"endTime":57.84,"body":"by SAP, by our customers, by our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.34,"endTime":57.84,"body":"partners and by our competitors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.84,"endTime":61.95,"body":"if their game in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.84,"endTime":61.95,"body":"emissions reductions. Don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.95,"endTime":65.46,"body":"forget to subscribe to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.95,"endTime":65.46,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.46,"endTime":69.87,"body":"choice to be sure you don't miss"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.46,"endTime":69.87,"body":"any episodes. Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.87,"endTime":73.08,"body":"Welcome to the climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.87,"endTime":73.08,"body":"podcast. My name is Tom Raftery"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.08,"endTime":76.26,"body":"with SAP and with me on the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.08,"endTime":76.26,"body":"today I have my special guest,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.26,"endTime":78.84,"body":"Bill. Bill, would you like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":76.26,"endTime":78.84,"body":"introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":79.11,"endTime":83.16,"body":"Hello, I'm"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":79.11,"endTime":83.16,"body":"William McDonough. And I'm in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":83.16,"endTime":88.14,"body":"Charlottesville, Virginia. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":83.16,"endTime":88.14,"body":"I'm an architect and co author"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":88.14,"endTime":91.47,"body":"of the book Cradle to Cradle"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":88.14,"endTime":91.47,"body":"remaking the way we make things."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.83,"endTime":95.17,"body":"Superb. Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":92.83,"endTime":95.17,"body":"the show. Thanks for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.76,"endTime":101.02,"body":"on.Bill, One of the reasons I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":96.76,"endTime":101.02,"body":"invited you on the show is that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":101.23,"endTime":104.35,"body":"a number of episodes ago,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":101.23,"endTime":104.35,"body":"somebody left a comment on my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.35,"endTime":107.68,"body":"website saying it would be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":104.35,"endTime":107.68,"body":"fantastic to have an episode"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.92,"endTime":114.49,"body":"around a design and how we can"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":107.92,"endTime":114.49,"body":"use design to design out carbon"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":114.55,"endTime":118.27,"body":"or carbon emissions from our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":114.55,"endTime":118.27,"body":"supply chains from our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":118.27,"endTime":123.43,"body":"organizations, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":118.27,"endTime":123.43,"body":"thing. I mean, you are well"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.43,"endTime":127.57,"body":"known in the design space. So to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.43,"endTime":127.57,"body":"my mind, you were an ideal"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.57,"endTime":132.97,"body":"person to have come on and speak"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.57,"endTime":132.97,"body":"about this. First of all, why do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.97,"endTime":138.22,"body":"you think design is important?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.97,"endTime":138.22,"body":"Why do you think it would be"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":138.22,"endTime":142.21,"body":"helpful to have a design"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":138.22,"endTime":142.21,"body":"component involved in our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.48,"endTime":144.52,"body":"climate emissions reduction"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":142.48,"endTime":144.52,"body":"strategies?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":145.14,"endTime":148.68,"body":"Well, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":145.14,"endTime":148.68,"body":"important thing is to remember"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":148.68,"endTime":154.17,"body":"that design is the first signal"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":148.68,"endTime":154.17,"body":"of human intention. So if you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":154.17,"endTime":157.86,"body":"wake up in the morning and have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":154.17,"endTime":157.86,"body":"designs on the world, you intend"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":157.86,"endTime":162.09,"body":"for something? And what if our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":157.86,"endTime":162.09,"body":"intentions were to make the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":162.09,"endTime":165.63,"body":"world a better place? Rather"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":162.09,"endTime":165.63,"body":"than just I don't really know"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":165.63,"endTime":167.73,"body":"what I'm doing? Or I'm just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":165.63,"endTime":167.73,"body":"trying to make some money in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":167.73,"endTime":170.67,"body":"Europe, just whatever. But if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":167.73,"endTime":170.67,"body":"you actually had good"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":170.67,"endTime":174.3,"body":"intentions, what would that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":170.67,"endTime":174.3,"body":"mean? And then we could look at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":174.3,"endTime":179.16,"body":"it in a strange way to us. If we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":174.3,"endTime":179.16,"body":"do things that are untoward? Do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":179.16,"endTime":183.93,"body":"we really intend to do them"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":179.16,"endTime":183.93,"body":"without our intention to pollute"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":184.23,"endTime":190.29,"body":"water or put toxic materials"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":184.23,"endTime":190.29,"body":"into environments for children"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":190.29,"endTime":193.86,"body":"or put too much carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":190.29,"endTime":193.86,"body":"in the atmosphere? I mean, is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":193.86,"endTime":201.09,"body":"it. So if it's not our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":193.86,"endTime":201.09,"body":"intention, then it's an it's not"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":201.09,"endTime":206.07,"body":"our plan, then it's actually our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":201.09,"endTime":206.07,"body":"de facto plan, because it's the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":206.07,"endTime":210.81,"body":"thing that's happening because"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":206.07,"endTime":210.81,"body":"we have no other plan. So what's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":210.81,"endTime":214.92,"body":"the plan? And who hasn't? So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":210.81,"endTime":214.92,"body":"when I see things that aren't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":214.95,"endTime":220.05,"body":"water, I ask is this intention?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":214.95,"endTime":220.05,"body":"No, probably not. But it's a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":220.05,"endTime":224.52,"body":"design problem, for sure. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":220.05,"endTime":224.52,"body":"it's amazing how nature doesn't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":224.52,"endTime":230.04,"body":"seem to have a design problem"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":224.52,"endTime":230.04,"body":"people do. So when we get to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":230.04,"endTime":233.76,"body":"carbon in the atmosphere, nature"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":230.04,"endTime":233.76,"body":"knows exactly what to do. Of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":233.76,"endTime":238.71,"body":"course it does with carbon. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":233.76,"endTime":238.71,"body":"we could call it living carbon."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":239.76,"endTime":245.22,"body":"And it cycles through the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":239.76,"endTime":245.22,"body":"atmosphere. 25 year cycle where"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":245.31,"endTime":250.17,"body":"a tree rots, carbon goes up"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":245.31,"endTime":250.17,"body":"comes back, but over the long"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":250.17,"endTime":254.43,"body":"periods of time, it's accruing."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":250.17,"endTime":254.43,"body":"On the Earth's surface. If you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":254.43,"endTime":257.73,"body":"go all the way back, when the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":254.43,"endTime":257.73,"body":"earth look like Venus, you could"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":257.73,"endTime":260.34,"body":"say, oh, there's this dead rock"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":257.73,"endTime":260.34,"body":"in space with some water on it,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":260.79,"endTime":264.33,"body":"and the sun is shining on it."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":260.79,"endTime":264.33,"body":"And the next thing you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":264.33,"endTime":269.25,"body":"physics just met chemistry. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":264.33,"endTime":269.25,"body":"we get biology. Whoa, and then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":269.25,"endTime":273.42,"body":"we got life. And life is order"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":269.25,"endTime":273.42,"body":"out of chaos. You're thinking"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":273.42,"endTime":276.9,"body":"about negative entropy. Because"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":273.42,"endTime":276.9,"body":"when you burn a log, you have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":276.9,"endTime":283.41,"body":"entropy. But the log itself was"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":276.9,"endTime":283.41,"body":"an accrual of various events"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":283.41,"endTime":288.63,"body":"like photons from the sun card"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":283.41,"endTime":288.63,"body":"for the atmosphere. So the earth"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":288.63,"endTime":293.31,"body":"is flat soil, which is humus,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":288.63,"endTime":293.31,"body":"it's got kelp, it's got green"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":293.31,"endTime":297.09,"body":"things and those things are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":293.31,"endTime":297.09,"body":"basis of life. And that's why"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":297.09,"endTime":302.37,"body":"we're called humans. That word"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":297.09,"endTime":302.37,"body":"comes from us. Soil people. So,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":302.64,"endTime":306.3,"body":"for me as a designer, I just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":302.64,"endTime":306.3,"body":"decided I was going to design"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":306.3,"endTime":312.24,"body":"buildings like trees. Why not?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":306.3,"endTime":312.24,"body":"Why not? So why not? And it's a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":312.24,"endTime":315.78,"body":"design question. What if you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":312.24,"endTime":315.78,"body":"find something that accrues"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":315.78,"endTime":319.38,"body":"carbon and produces oxygen? And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":315.78,"endTime":319.38,"body":"we think that humans made"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":319.38,"endTime":324.84,"body":"produced oxygen lately. change"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":319.38,"endTime":324.84,"body":"colors of the seasons? provide"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":324.84,"endTime":330.18,"body":"habitat for 1000s of species"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":324.84,"endTime":330.18,"body":"purify water, provide fuel,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":330.6,"endTime":338.52,"body":"shade microclimates keep going"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":330.6,"endTime":338.52,"body":"change before cybers. And then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":339.03,"endTime":344.34,"body":"how about self replicating?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":339.03,"endTime":344.34,"body":"How's that? Been for you,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":344.34,"endTime":345.63,"body":"though? Not yet. But"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":346.32,"endTime":348.21,"body":"I was gonna say,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":346.32,"endTime":348.21,"body":"self replicating."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":349.5,"endTime":353.01,"body":"Who knows, but"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":349.5,"endTime":353.01,"body":"the, the, what a wonderful thing"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":353.01,"endTime":358.26,"body":"to do and inspired by So that to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":353.01,"endTime":358.26,"body":"me, it's designed, and it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":359.22,"endTime":362.22,"body":"exquisite level. So that's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":359.22,"endTime":362.22,"body":"really why I think design so"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":362.22,"endTime":367.14,"body":"important. Because if we don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":362.22,"endTime":367.14,"body":"like what's going on, change the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":367.14,"endTime":367.53,"body":"design."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":367.83,"endTime":372.78,"body":"Super. And how, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":367.83,"endTime":372.78,"body":"mean, you talked about making"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":372.78,"endTime":378.72,"body":"buildings like trees. What other"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":372.78,"endTime":378.72,"body":"kind of design principles can we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":378.72,"endTime":383.34,"body":"use to design better to make"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":378.72,"endTime":383.34,"body":"sure that we're not polluting?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":383.4,"endTime":388.71,"body":"We, I mean, the big one to my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":383.4,"endTime":388.71,"body":"mind is is the climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":388.71,"endTime":393.3,"body":"emissions, the co2, the meat,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":388.71,"endTime":393.3,"body":"they in a wax all these, but in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":393.3,"endTime":398.52,"body":"general, if we want to design"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":393.3,"endTime":398.52,"body":"pollution out of our products"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":398.52,"endTime":401.1,"body":"out of our services, how do we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":398.52,"endTime":401.1,"body":"go about doing that?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":401.34,"endTime":408.06,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":401.34,"endTime":408.06,"body":"pollutants, or toxin is a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":408.06,"endTime":412.23,"body":"material in the wrong place, at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":408.06,"endTime":412.23,"body":"the wrong dose in the wrong"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":412.23,"endTime":417.72,"body":"duration. And so by project"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":412.23,"endTime":417.72,"body":"principle, we could design out"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":417.96,"endTime":422.25,"body":"things like that when we realize"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":417.96,"endTime":422.25,"body":"that that's in the mix here. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":422.76,"endTime":427.59,"body":"yeah, for example, water is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":422.76,"endTime":427.59,"body":"highly toxic. If I surround you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":427.59,"endTime":431.37,"body":"with every six minutes, you'll"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":427.59,"endTime":431.37,"body":"drown. And if I if you jump out"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":431.37,"endTime":437.73,"body":"of an airplane and hit the water"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":431.37,"endTime":437.73,"body":"terminal velocity, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":437.73,"endTime":440.43,"body":"it's a very short duration, but"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":437.73,"endTime":440.43,"body":"a very big dose."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":440.81,"endTime":442.82,"body":"And so I remember"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":440.81,"endTime":442.82,"body":"one of my lectures in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":442.82,"endTime":445.94,"body":"universities saying that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":442.82,"endTime":445.94,"body":"toxicity is, to your point, it's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":445.94,"endTime":451.04,"body":"all about dosage. And his point"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":445.94,"endTime":451.04,"body":"was a an egg cup full of salt is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":451.04,"endTime":451.97,"body":"a lethal dose."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":452.46,"endTime":455.28,"body":"Right? Right,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":452.46,"endTime":455.28,"body":"exactly. But on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":455.55,"endTime":462.24,"body":"we have context, we live in this"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":455.55,"endTime":462.24,"body":"world and, and so from a design"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":462.24,"endTime":467.22,"body":"perspective, we could look at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":462.24,"endTime":467.22,"body":"carbon emissions, and that are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":467.31,"endTime":471.78,"body":"in excess of healthy levels as a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":467.31,"endTime":471.78,"body":"toxin in the environment,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":471.99,"endTime":477.15,"body":"because it's toxifying the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":471.99,"endTime":477.15,"body":"hemisphere. So So I think, when"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":477.15,"endTime":480.3,"body":"we look at principles, one of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":477.15,"endTime":480.3,"body":"the first Cradle to Cradle"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":480.3,"endTime":483.93,"body":"principles, there are three"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":480.3,"endTime":483.93,"body":"fundamentals. One is waste"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":484.05,"endTime":489.57,"body":"equals food. So in nature, when"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":484.05,"endTime":489.57,"body":"things waste in other things,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":489.57,"endTime":493.14,"body":"food, so when you talk about"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":489.57,"endTime":493.14,"body":"pollution, pollution is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":493.14,"endTime":498.99,"body":"liability. And why would I want"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":493.14,"endTime":498.99,"body":"to make that and so waste equals"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":498.99,"endTime":503.82,"body":"food. So that would then bring"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":498.99,"endTime":503.82,"body":"us to the the notion of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":503.82,"endTime":507.18,"body":"designing things so that they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":503.82,"endTime":507.18,"body":"have an x use if it's for the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":507.18,"endTime":511.35,"body":"technosphere. So we design"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":507.18,"endTime":511.35,"body":"things in the biosphere, which"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":511.35,"endTime":514.53,"body":"means it goes back to nature,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":511.35,"endTime":514.53,"body":"safely. We call those products"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":514.53,"endTime":517.98,"body":"of consumption, you can actually"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":514.53,"endTime":517.98,"body":"consultant and they go back"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":519.09,"endTime":523.92,"body":"toothpaste. And then we have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":519.09,"endTime":523.92,"body":"products as a service, which is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":524.73,"endTime":529.5,"body":"a television set, what you want"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":524.73,"endTime":529.5,"body":"is to watch TV, you don't want"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":529.5,"endTime":534.24,"body":"to buy 4360 chemicals, some of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":529.5,"endTime":534.24,"body":"which are toxic, put in your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":534.24,"endTime":536.34,"body":"house and encourage your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":534.24,"endTime":536.34,"body":"children to play with it. You"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":536.34,"endTime":540.09,"body":"know, that's not the agenda,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":536.34,"endTime":540.09,"body":"right? You want to watch TV? So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":540.09,"endTime":543.3,"body":"why can't we design things like"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":540.09,"endTime":543.3,"body":"cars and televisions and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":543.36,"endTime":547.32,"body":"microphones and computers to go"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":543.36,"endTime":547.32,"body":"back to technical cycles safely,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":548.01,"endTime":551.31,"body":"so that we can use them over and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":548.01,"endTime":551.31,"body":"over again, that's circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":552.3,"endTime":559.05,"body":"economy. And that's how we got a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":552.3,"endTime":559.05,"body":"lot of traction there. Because"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":559.29,"endTime":562.08,"body":"the idea that we could design"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":559.29,"endTime":562.08,"body":"safe, healthy things designed"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":562.08,"endTime":565.59,"body":"for disassembly and reuse. So we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":562.08,"endTime":565.59,"body":"don't design for end of life,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":566.55,"endTime":570.81,"body":"which is basically lifecycle"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":566.55,"endTime":570.81,"body":"design. And it's a scientific"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":570.81,"endTime":575.07,"body":"process that looks at source to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":570.81,"endTime":575.07,"body":"disposition. But so that's very"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":575.4,"endTime":579.81,"body":"important. But we use the human"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":575.4,"endTime":579.81,"body":"projection, and call it life. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":579.81,"endTime":582.09,"body":"we say end of life for the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":579.81,"endTime":582.09,"body":"product, but it's not a living"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":582.09,"endTime":587.61,"body":"thing. So it's kind of silly,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":582.09,"endTime":587.61,"body":"really. So we say end of use,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":588.15,"endTime":591.57,"body":"together was the same for our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":588.15,"endTime":591.57,"body":"use, right? And then if you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":591.57,"endTime":594.84,"body":"design for end of use instead of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":591.57,"endTime":594.84,"body":"end of life, you don't say Oh,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":594.84,"endTime":598.53,"body":"and it ends up in landfill and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":594.84,"endTime":598.53,"body":"then my life cycle. You say,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":598.53,"endTime":602.43,"body":"Well, what's the next use? Don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":598.53,"endTime":602.43,"body":"you do that he walked into the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":602.43,"endTime":608.7,"body":"circular because now we decided"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":602.43,"endTime":608.7,"body":"for next year. So in nature, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":608.7,"endTime":612.48,"body":"know, it's celebrates this idea"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":608.7,"endTime":612.48,"body":"of waste. I mean, think about a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":612.93,"endTime":617.04,"body":"cherry tree in the spring, like"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":612.93,"endTime":617.04,"body":"we see out here now. I said"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":617.04,"endTime":621.6,"body":"tastic, like, what happens if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":617.04,"endTime":621.6,"body":"this explosions 10s of 1000s of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":621.6,"endTime":624.69,"body":"blossoms just in case one of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":621.6,"endTime":624.69,"body":"them, you know, happens to be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":624.69,"endTime":628.92,"body":"lucky. And, you know, they're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":624.69,"endTime":628.92,"body":"not very efficient. But boy, is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":628.92,"endTime":633.0,"body":"it effective? Is it beautiful?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":628.92,"endTime":633.0,"body":"And when those blossoms get back"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":633.0,"endTime":636.21,"body":"on the ground A few days later,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":633.0,"endTime":636.21,"body":"how long are they there, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":636.21,"endTime":641.79,"body":"haven't noticed that? over the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":636.21,"endTime":641.79,"body":"three days. They're gonna go"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":641.79,"endTime":645.3,"body":"right back to the soil, what a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":641.79,"endTime":645.3,"body":"beautiful thing. So waste equals"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":645.3,"endTime":649.86,"body":"four. So you're eliminating the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":645.3,"endTime":649.86,"body":"concept of waste. That's the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":649.86,"endTime":655.02,"body":"first. The second is we use"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":649.86,"endTime":655.02,"body":"current solar income, just like"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":655.02,"endTime":659.07,"body":"nature, we power it with"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":655.02,"endTime":659.07,"body":"renewables 100%. So as we do our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":659.07,"endTime":662.64,"body":"design, that's we're looking"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":659.07,"endTime":662.64,"body":"for, why not course. And then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":662.79,"endTime":666.99,"body":"the third is celebrate"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":662.79,"endTime":666.99,"body":"diversity. Because nature loves"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":666.99,"endTime":673.02,"body":"diversity. Biology loves"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":666.99,"endTime":673.02,"body":"diversity. And, you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":673.56,"endTime":678.3,"body":"it's obviously critical to any"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":673.56,"endTime":678.3,"body":"bias here. And then, but in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":678.3,"endTime":681.12,"body":"technosphere, we call it you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":678.3,"endTime":681.12,"body":"know, you want to really be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":681.15,"endTime":687.93,"body":"coherency. It's not easy by the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":681.15,"endTime":687.93,"body":"biosphere to be as a designer,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":687.93,"endTime":694.92,"body":"because it's very complex. And,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":687.93,"endTime":694.92,"body":"you know, it's like, remember,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":694.92,"endTime":697.11,"body":"Charles de Gaulle was asked what"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":694.92,"endTime":697.11,"body":"it was like to be President of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":697.11,"endTime":700.8,"body":"France. And he said, What do you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":697.11,"endTime":700.8,"body":"think it's like trying to run a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":700.8,"endTime":707.04,"body":"country with 200 types of keys?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":700.8,"endTime":707.04,"body":"And, you know, we want diversity"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":707.04,"endTime":714.06,"body":"and friendship. My first thing"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":707.04,"endTime":714.06,"body":"birds, of course, but do we want"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":714.06,"endTime":717.87,"body":"diversity and plastics? Do we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":714.06,"endTime":717.87,"body":"want 249 kinds of French"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":717.87,"endTime":722.07,"body":"plastic? You know, what we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":717.87,"endTime":722.07,"body":"really want, if we can get them"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":722.07,"endTime":727.23,"body":"coherent, so that we can realize"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":722.07,"endTime":727.23,"body":"them, and then put systems, but"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":727.23,"endTime":730.59,"body":"we don't want to start spreading"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":727.23,"endTime":730.59,"body":"stuff all over the nature with"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":730.59,"endTime":734.76,"body":"diverse inputs that have no"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":730.59,"endTime":734.76,"body":"defined pathway, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":734.76,"endTime":740.37,"body":"except the rescale. So it really"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":734.76,"endTime":740.37,"body":"is important that we have these"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":740.37,"endTime":743.64,"body":"three principles. Waste equals"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":740.37,"endTime":743.64,"body":"food, is current solar income,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":743.88,"endTime":744.84,"body":"celebrate diversity."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":745.89,"endTime":750.84,"body":"Okay. How, though?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":745.89,"endTime":750.84,"body":"I mean, it sounds very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":750.84,"endTime":757.53,"body":"challenging to design, to your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":750.84,"endTime":757.53,"body":"point, a TV set that becomes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":757.56,"endTime":760.35,"body":"food. How does that work?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":760.8,"endTime":763.95,"body":"Well, it becomes"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":760.8,"endTime":763.95,"body":"food for other TVs? Yes, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":763.95,"endTime":768.03,"body":"point it's actually the, it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":763.95,"endTime":768.03,"body":"the technical nutrition, we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":768.03,"endTime":772.41,"body":"can't have that industry. Right."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":768.03,"endTime":772.41,"body":"So. So if you look at the work"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":772.41,"endTime":775.95,"body":"that various companies are doing"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":772.41,"endTime":775.95,"body":"in this space, you'll see all"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":775.95,"endTime":779.91,"body":"kinds of people adopting this"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":775.95,"endTime":779.91,"body":"strategy. I mean, Apple is fully"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":779.91,"endTime":785.7,"body":"aware that the aluminum cases"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":779.91,"endTime":785.7,"body":"are reusable material, and they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":785.7,"endTime":788.25,"body":"understand that. And they're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":785.7,"endTime":788.25,"body":"understanding how to take apart"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":788.25,"endTime":794.01,"body":"an iPhone to recover materials."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":788.25,"endTime":794.01,"body":"We have systems today that can"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":794.01,"endTime":799.08,"body":"take circuit boards, telephones,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":794.01,"endTime":799.08,"body":"and shred them. And then using"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":799.08,"endTime":803.67,"body":"various techniques to separate"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":799.08,"endTime":803.67,"body":"out the materials for reuse."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":804.09,"endTime":807.69,"body":"Sure, we can do this. So we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":804.09,"endTime":807.69,"body":"design for disassembly, we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":807.69,"endTime":813.9,"body":"design for next use. And we and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":807.69,"endTime":813.9,"body":"we get back clever, humans are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":813.9,"endTime":819.96,"body":"clever. And in this context, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":813.9,"endTime":819.96,"body":"know, I call this hope, and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":819.99,"endTime":825.63,"body":"creativity are the two powers"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":819.99,"endTime":825.63,"body":"that humans have to move beyond"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":825.63,"endTime":831.93,"body":"the impossible. Nice. Nice. So,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":825.63,"endTime":831.93,"body":"you know, I hope we can do this."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":832.62,"endTime":839.13,"body":"And let's get creative. Because"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":832.62,"endTime":839.13,"body":"it sounds impossible. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":839.13,"endTime":842.73,"body":"it is, so maybe you should go"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":839.13,"endTime":842.73,"body":"get some help and strike up else"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":842.73,"endTime":846.24,"body":"if it isn't possible. But until"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":842.73,"endTime":846.24,"body":"then, let's just keep at it."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":847.86,"endTime":852.63,"body":"Now, for designers, if it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":847.86,"endTime":852.63,"body":"possible, it already exists for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":852.63,"endTime":856.59,"body":"us, right, so our job is naked"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":852.63,"endTime":856.59,"body":"exists. So for other people,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":856.59,"endTime":860.13,"body":"they go, Oh, this is possible."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":856.59,"endTime":860.13,"body":"So when I design buildings that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":860.34,"endTime":862.8,"body":"produce more electricity, and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":860.34,"endTime":862.8,"body":"they require to operate from"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":863.25,"endTime":866.37,"body":"renewables, you know, 20 years"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":863.25,"endTime":866.37,"body":"later, they end up at the top of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":866.37,"endTime":870.33,"body":"the list have an idea of a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":866.37,"endTime":870.33,"body":"netzero building. Okay, that's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":870.33,"endTime":873.81,"body":"nice. When I did it, solar"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":870.33,"endTime":873.81,"body":"collectors for 20 times, it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":873.81,"endTime":877.5,"body":"more expensive. But we were"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":873.81,"endTime":877.5,"body":"positing it, it's possible."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":878.1,"endTime":880.92,"body":"Someday these will be cost"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":878.1,"endTime":880.92,"body":"effective. Someday we got to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":880.92,"endTime":886.92,"body":"find out how, when who, so we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":880.92,"endTime":886.92,"body":"can do it. And then people can"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":886.92,"endTime":890.58,"body":"say, Oh, look, it's possible."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":886.92,"endTime":890.58,"body":"Another way question is, what's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":890.58,"endTime":893.28,"body":"the cost and how are you going"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":890.58,"endTime":893.28,"body":"to figure it out? And sure"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":893.28,"endTime":896.88,"body":"enough, here we are, and we got"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":893.28,"endTime":896.88,"body":"renewables there. We're looking"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":896.88,"endTime":899.46,"body":"at one asset kilowatt hour, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":896.88,"endTime":899.46,"body":"deserts right now. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":899.46,"endTime":901.71,"body":"unbelievable. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":902.1,"endTime":908.07,"body":"so, so a net zero"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":902.1,"endTime":908.07,"body":"house, given the economics of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.07,"endTime":913.95,"body":"the time of the 80s 90s was an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":908.07,"endTime":913.95,"body":"absolutely ridiculously crazy"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":913.95,"endTime":918.09,"body":"idea. Whereas now, it's entirely"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":913.95,"endTime":918.09,"body":"possible, what other crazy ideas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":918.09,"endTime":921.48,"body":"are out there that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":918.09,"endTime":921.48,"body":"could be made possible with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":921.48,"endTime":924.33,"body":"economies of scale. And in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":921.48,"endTime":924.33,"body":"advanced technologies?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":953.69,"endTime":957.2,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":953.69,"endTime":957.2,"body":"our idea of a product as a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":957.2,"endTime":960.98,"body":"service, when we first positive,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":957.2,"endTime":960.98,"body":"we said, you know, you really"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":960.98,"endTime":963.71,"body":"want on a washing machine what"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":960.98,"endTime":963.71,"body":"you want it's clean clothes,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":963.71,"endTime":967.34,"body":"and, you know, you're gonna go"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":963.71,"endTime":967.34,"body":"buy some rubber and glass and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":967.34,"endTime":971.33,"body":"chromium, steel and aluminum,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":967.34,"endTime":971.33,"body":"and you're gonna put your house"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":971.33,"endTime":974.1500000000001,"body":"and, and then a number of years"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":971.33,"endTime":974.1500000000001,"body":"later, you're gonna want to get"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":974.1500000000001,"endTime":977.5400000000001,"body":"rid of it, and it's gonna go to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":974.1500000000001,"endTime":977.5400000000001,"body":"some dump somewhere. Meantime,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":977.5400000000001,"endTime":980.84,"body":"you have to have a service and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":977.5400000000001,"endTime":980.84,"body":"expensive to get people to come"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":980.84,"endTime":985.46,"body":"and fix things. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":980.84,"endTime":985.46,"body":"anode side, cold plate is so"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":985.46,"endTime":989.6600000000001,"body":"they corrode and, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":985.46,"endTime":989.6600000000001,"body":"gonna have a useful period of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":990.0200000000001,"endTime":993.5,"body":"whatever the company thinks, is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":990.0200000000001,"endTime":993.5,"body":"okay, you know, he's six years"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":993.5300000000001,"endTime":996.6800000000001,"body":"or something. On the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":993.5300000000001,"endTime":996.6800000000001,"body":"if we saw a washing machine as a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":996.6800000000001,"endTime":999.59,"body":"service, when I was clean"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":996.6800000000001,"endTime":999.59,"body":"clothes, and what I want to do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":999.59,"endTime":1003.22,"body":"is spend as little as possible"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":999.59,"endTime":1003.22,"body":"on getting those clean clothes,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1003.7600000000001,"endTime":1006.1,"body":"and at the same time, have the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1003.7600000000001,"endTime":1006.1,"body":"highest level of performance,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1006.1,"endTime":1009.94,"body":"which makes total sense, cost"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1006.1,"endTime":1009.94,"body":"performance, the SEC, what if I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1010.48,"endTime":1014.62,"body":"can effectively lease the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1010.48,"endTime":1014.62,"body":"machine, so when the supplier"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1014.71,"endTime":1017.7700000000001,"body":"sells it to me, or at least"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1014.71,"endTime":1017.7700000000001,"body":"whatever the transaction is,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1017.7700000000001,"endTime":1020.7700000000001,"body":"doesn't really matter. When I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1017.7700000000001,"endTime":1020.7700000000001,"body":"have that washing machine? What"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1020.7700000000001,"endTime":1025.21,"body":"if the company is aware of the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1020.7700000000001,"endTime":1025.21,"body":"rubber the class, the lower of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1025.21,"endTime":1028.03,"body":"the steel? These are the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1025.21,"endTime":1028.03,"body":"technical nutrients of their"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1028.06,"endTime":1032.68,"body":"industry? There it is. And they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1028.06,"endTime":1032.68,"body":"can afford to go play piano,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1032.68,"endTime":1035.14,"body":"it's because they don't want it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1032.68,"endTime":1035.14,"body":"to break down. Because you're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1035.14,"endTime":1038.65,"body":"getting in as a service, you're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1035.14,"endTime":1038.65,"body":"looking for 3000 washes. So they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1038.77,"endTime":1041.35,"body":"and you're paying per wash less"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1038.77,"endTime":1041.35,"body":"than you would if you own the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1041.35,"endTime":1044.86,"body":"thing, so on. So everybody's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1041.35,"endTime":1044.86,"body":"winning on this, but they still"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1044.86,"endTime":1048.52,"body":"have an object on their raw"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1044.86,"endTime":1048.52,"body":"materials. Wow. So when you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1048.52,"endTime":1050.68,"body":"think about that, it's quite"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1048.52,"endTime":1050.68,"body":"astonishing. We do light"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1050.68,"endTime":1053.5,"body":"fixtures, indium and gallium,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1050.68,"endTime":1053.5,"body":"you don't want indium and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1053.5,"endTime":1056.29,"body":"gallium your house, you don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1053.5,"endTime":1056.29,"body":"care. You want light. So what if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1056.29,"endTime":1059.89,"body":"you saw the light service and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1056.29,"endTime":1059.89,"body":"Philips wants the fixture back?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1059.89,"endTime":1062.95,"body":"That's what we do. So when we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1059.89,"endTime":1062.95,"body":"first proposed these things,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1063.43,"endTime":1065.8,"body":"people said, Oh, you're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1063.43,"endTime":1065.8,"body":"communists? You don't believe in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1065.8,"endTime":1068.44,"body":"ownership or something? You"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1065.8,"endTime":1068.44,"body":"know, it's like, No, no, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1068.44,"endTime":1072.8200000000002,"body":"no. We want to say I'd make"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1068.44,"endTime":1072.8200000000002,"body":"perpetual assets instead of all"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1072.8200000000002,"endTime":1077.23,"body":"these contingent liabilities. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1072.8200000000002,"endTime":1077.23,"body":"if it literally is the lease,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1077.53,"endTime":1079.8400000000001,"body":"you know, then the company"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1077.53,"endTime":1079.8400000000001,"body":"didn't keep the materials on"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1079.8400000000001,"endTime":1083.02,"body":"their books. Right? What does"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1079.8400000000001,"endTime":1083.02,"body":"that like? You're not even"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1083.02,"endTime":1086.02,"body":"depreciating it. You're keeping"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1083.02,"endTime":1086.02,"body":"commodities in flow. That's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1086.02,"endTime":1088.18,"body":"amazing. Yeah. Whereas"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1086.02,"endTime":1088.18,"body":"otherwise, she's selling the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1088.18,"endTime":1092.5900000000001,"body":"washing machine, a wave goodbye"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1088.18,"endTime":1092.5900000000001,"body":"to what the customer, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1092.8600000000001,"endTime":1095.14,"body":"materials, he just waved"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1092.8600000000001,"endTime":1095.14,"body":"goodbye, and everything's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1095.14,"endTime":1098.8,"body":"Goodbye, all money talks. But"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1095.14,"endTime":1098.8,"body":"just keep saying goodbye. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1099.76,"endTime":1103.0,"body":"hello, again, and again. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1099.76,"endTime":1103.0,"body":"again. Welcome to circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1103.0,"endTime":1107.5,"body":"economy. So that's another big"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1103.0,"endTime":1107.5,"body":"idea that we put out there. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1107.5,"endTime":1111.4,"body":"it took a while. But now it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1107.5,"endTime":1111.4,"body":"like an understood thing. And it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1111.4,"endTime":1111.64,"body":"makes"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1111.64,"endTime":1114.3700000000001,"body":"a lot of sense. I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1111.64,"endTime":1114.3700000000001,"body":"was I was looking at this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1114.3700000000001,"endTime":1120.28,"body":"recently for the mobility space"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1114.3700000000001,"endTime":1120.28,"body":"for cars, because the the shift"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1120.28,"endTime":1123.94,"body":"to the electrification of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1120.28,"endTime":1123.94,"body":"transportation is well underway."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.94,"endTime":1128.44,"body":"And currently, the batteries"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.94,"endTime":1128.44,"body":"that go into those cars have a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1128.44,"endTime":1131.77,"body":"useful lifetime of somewhere"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1128.44,"endTime":1131.77,"body":"between three and 500,000"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1131.77,"endTime":1133.45,"body":"kilometers, which is you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1131.77,"endTime":1133.45,"body":"talking"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1133.45,"endTime":1136.8400000000001,"body":"about a use"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1133.45,"endTime":1136.8400000000001,"body":"period, not a lifetime use"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1136.8400000000001,"endTime":1139.3,"body":"period, use period. Okay."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1140.38,"endTime":1144.6100000000001,"body":"Whereas the new the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1140.38,"endTime":1144.6100000000001,"body":"new batteries that Tesla"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1144.6100000000001,"endTime":1149.44,"body":"announced that their battery day"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1144.6100000000001,"endTime":1149.44,"body":"last September, have a use time"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1149.5,"endTime":1156.01,"body":"of about 3.6 million kilometers,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1149.5,"endTime":1156.01,"body":"which is 10 times the useful"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1156.01,"endTime":1163.0,"body":"life of a car in the EU. today."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1156.01,"endTime":1163.0,"body":"So right there, you could see a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1163.0,"endTime":1166.8400000000001,"body":"shift to product as a service"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1163.0,"endTime":1166.8400000000001,"body":"where the battery is brought"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1166.8400000000001,"endTime":1171.3700000000001,"body":"back after x 100,000 kilometer,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1166.8400000000001,"endTime":1171.3700000000001,"body":"absolutely. A new body is put on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1171.3700000000001,"endTime":1172.3300000000002,"body":"and it's sent back. Sure."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1173.02,"endTime":1175.66,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1173.02,"endTime":1175.66,"body":"you said what, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1175.66,"endTime":1180.97,"body":"use life cycles, but it's really"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1175.66,"endTime":1180.97,"body":"use periods. So yeah, so this,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1181.0,"endTime":1183.8200000000002,"body":"this has a use period that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1181.0,"endTime":1183.8200000000002,"body":"extends beyond the body, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1183.8200000000002,"endTime":1186.79,"body":"life of the body of the frame,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1183.8200000000002,"endTime":1186.79,"body":"if you want to use life. Right,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1186.8500000000001,"endTime":1191.5,"body":"thank you. Yeah. So sure those"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1186.8500000000001,"endTime":1191.5,"body":"things are important, but also"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1191.6200000000001,"endTime":1196.99,"body":"designed protects us, the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1191.6200000000001,"endTime":1196.99,"body":"batteries will be recyclable. As"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1196.99,"endTime":1201.01,"body":"we figure out how to do that."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1196.99,"endTime":1201.01,"body":"It's coming in very quickly. It"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1201.01,"endTime":1203.53,"body":"just is part of the design"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1201.01,"endTime":1203.53,"body":"assignment at this point. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1204.22,"endTime":1207.64,"body":"this is exciting. And I think"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1204.22,"endTime":1207.64,"body":"the the issue here I mobility"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1207.64,"endTime":1211.99,"body":"is, obviously and you can see it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1207.64,"endTime":1211.99,"body":"in the marketplace, that one of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1211.99,"endTime":1216.76,"body":"the first places to electrify"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1211.99,"endTime":1216.76,"body":"immediately would be the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1216.76,"endTime":1219.04,"body":"transportation sector,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1216.76,"endTime":1219.04,"body":"especially light transportation."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1219.52,"endTime":1222.91,"body":"And so obvious, I mean, you have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1219.52,"endTime":1222.91,"body":"to almost be an idiot to buy an"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1222.91,"endTime":1225.97,"body":"internal combustion engine at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1222.91,"endTime":1225.97,"body":"this point. You can't do math."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1226.6000000000001,"endTime":1230.98,"body":"For example, You know, and you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1226.6000000000001,"endTime":1230.98,"body":"like to have maintenance, you'd"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1230.98,"endTime":1234.1000000000001,"body":"like spreading oil around and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1230.98,"endTime":1234.1000000000001,"body":"you like having to look for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1234.1000000000001,"endTime":1237.19,"body":"power in special places where"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1234.1000000000001,"endTime":1237.19,"body":"people are dangerous materials."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1237.19,"endTime":1240.01,"body":"They're spraying around without"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1237.19,"endTime":1240.01,"body":"control. I mean, my goodness,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1240.46,"endTime":1247.24,"body":"really? So I think the electric"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1240.46,"endTime":1247.24,"body":"car went right past my sense in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1247.24,"endTime":1250.39,"body":"terms of parody in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1247.24,"endTime":1250.39,"body":"marketplace, turned value for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1250.39,"endTime":1256.0900000000001,"body":"dollar, probably four years,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1250.39,"endTime":1256.0900000000001,"body":"five years ago. And here we are."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1256.0900000000001,"endTime":1259.96,"body":"So yeah, it's it's a great, big"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1256.0900000000001,"endTime":1259.96,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1261.13,"endTime":1264.49,"body":"When one of my"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1261.13,"endTime":1264.49,"body":"followers on LinkedIn had a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1264.49,"endTime":1268.06,"body":"great question, for me to ask"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1264.49,"endTime":1268.06,"body":"you, he wanted to know, what are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1268.06,"endTime":1272.1100000000001,"body":"the skills that designers and he"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1268.06,"endTime":1272.1100000000001,"body":"said, all types from material to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1272.1100000000001,"endTime":1276.46,"body":"service designers need going"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1272.1100000000001,"endTime":1276.46,"body":"forward art should be taught"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1276.46,"endTime":1276.79,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1279.73,"endTime":1283.78,"body":"I think that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1279.73,"endTime":1283.78,"body":"always makes me come back to the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1283.78,"endTime":1290.68,"body":"fundamental question of, are we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1283.78,"endTime":1290.68,"body":"doing the right thing? And are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1290.68,"endTime":1294.64,"body":"we doing it the right way? So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1290.68,"endTime":1294.64,"body":"those are the two questions"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1294.64,"endTime":1299.92,"body":"right thing right way. And if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1294.64,"endTime":1299.92,"body":"you think about engineers, and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1299.95,"endTime":1304.15,"body":"you know, where the devils in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1299.95,"endTime":1304.15,"body":"the details, you, you often see"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1304.15,"endTime":1306.52,"body":"people trying to make sure"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1304.15,"endTime":1306.52,"body":"they're doing it the right way,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1306.91,"endTime":1310.9,"body":"most efficiently. And then they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1306.91,"endTime":1310.9,"body":"bring their tools like six"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1310.9,"endTime":1316.18,"body":"sigma. And now they do it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1310.9,"endTime":1316.18,"body":"superficially. But what if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1316.18,"endTime":1319.8700000000001,"body":"you're doing the wrong thing?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1316.18,"endTime":1319.8700000000001,"body":"Well, now you're just speaking"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1319.8700000000001,"endTime":1325.51,"body":"perfectly wrong. Say. So I think"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1319.8700000000001,"endTime":1325.51,"body":"that's value, you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1325.51,"endTime":1329.05,"body":"number and statistical"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1325.51,"endTime":1329.05,"body":"significance. So it's important,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1329.0800000000002,"endTime":1331.63,"body":"obviously, that's how we got to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1329.0800000000002,"endTime":1331.63,"body":"keep doing our stuff, because"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1331.63,"endTime":1335.3200000000002,"body":"it's affected that way. But the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1331.63,"endTime":1335.3200000000002,"body":"real thing, I think, is the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1335.3200000000002,"endTime":1338.77,"body":"effective questions. So I would"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1335.3200000000002,"endTime":1338.77,"body":"say to the designers, the great"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1338.8,"endTime":1343.75,"body":"gift that we have as designers,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1338.8,"endTime":1343.75,"body":"is that we can start with our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1343.75,"endTime":1350.38,"body":"values. We don't start with"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1343.75,"endTime":1350.38,"body":"number. So what is the right and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1350.38,"endTime":1354.6100000000001,"body":"the wrong? What is the good and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1350.38,"endTime":1354.6100000000001,"body":"the bad? What is the moral the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1354.6100000000001,"endTime":1359.3200000000002,"body":"immoral? What is the ethical,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1354.6100000000001,"endTime":1359.3200000000002,"body":"the unethical start there? Those"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1359.3200000000002,"endTime":1364.99,"body":"are your values. What is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1359.3200000000002,"endTime":1364.99,"body":"beautiful? What is the ugly? So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1365.02,"endTime":1369.1000000000001,"body":"Wow, this is Plato. And then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1365.02,"endTime":1369.1000000000001,"body":"when you think about a student,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1369.1000000000001,"endTime":1375.22,"body":"Aristotle, who called what he"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1369.1000000000001,"endTime":1375.22,"body":"did practical wisdom, you start"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1375.22,"endTime":1381.76,"body":"with that wisdom, see? So be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1375.22,"endTime":1381.76,"body":"wise, then be smart. I prefer"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1381.76,"endTime":1386.95,"body":"wise to Smart Start. So you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1381.76,"endTime":1386.95,"body":"start with wisdom. What have you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1386.95,"endTime":1392.26,"body":"learned? And then from there,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1386.95,"endTime":1392.26,"body":"you go from your values in mind,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1392.56,"endTime":1395.8,"body":"I always start projects by"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1392.56,"endTime":1395.8,"body":"asking, How do I love all the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1395.8,"endTime":1402.25,"body":"children of all species for all"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1395.8,"endTime":1402.25,"body":"time. So to see what happens,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1402.67,"endTime":1406.5700000000002,"body":"quite something. So anyway, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1402.67,"endTime":1406.5700000000002,"body":"start with your values, now you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1406.5700000000002,"endTime":1411.4,"body":"go to principles. And those are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1406.5700000000002,"endTime":1411.4,"body":"your bedrock, that's your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1411.4,"endTime":1414.43,"body":"fulcrum for your leaves of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1411.4,"endTime":1414.43,"body":"change. So those are the things"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1414.43,"endTime":1416.98,"body":"that don't move those your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1414.43,"endTime":1416.98,"body":"principles. For us. That's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1416.98,"endTime":1420.8500000000001,"body":"Cradle to Cradle, based, he goes"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1416.98,"endTime":1420.8500000000001,"body":"through his current solar cell"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1421.24,"endTime":1424.8700000000001,"body":"principles, and then you bring"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1421.24,"endTime":1424.8700000000001,"body":"all these leavers. But the thing"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1424.8700000000001,"endTime":1427.99,"body":"that doesn't move you need"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1424.8700000000001,"endTime":1427.99,"body":"because I think Archimedes was"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1427.99,"endTime":1432.4,"body":"once quoted, as having said,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1427.99,"endTime":1432.4,"body":"Give me a lever and a place to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1432.4,"endTime":1436.78,"body":"stand up to get to raise the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1432.4,"endTime":1436.78,"body":"earth. He got the fulcrum. I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1436.78,"endTime":1441.7,"body":"mean, if you don't have a thing"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1436.78,"endTime":1441.7,"body":"that doesn't move, then you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1441.7,"endTime":1444.88,"body":"can't do anything, push the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1441.7,"endTime":1444.88,"body":"earth off a cliff, and you put"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1444.88,"endTime":1448.03,"body":"all that but you're not gonna"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1444.88,"endTime":1448.03,"body":"lift it. So. So that's your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1448.39,"endTime":1452.23,"body":"fulcrum. And a designer needs a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1448.39,"endTime":1452.23,"body":"fulcrum. This is what you do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1452.3200000000002,"endTime":1455.8300000000002,"body":"what you want, then there's, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1452.3200000000002,"endTime":1455.8300000000002,"body":"go from the principles to your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1455.8600000000001,"endTime":1459.49,"body":"visions. That's, that's what"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1455.8600000000001,"endTime":1459.49,"body":"architects are. We're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1459.64,"endTime":1463.3,"body":"professional visionaries. That's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1459.64,"endTime":1463.3,"body":"all we do. So then you go"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1463.3300000000002,"endTime":1466.63,"body":"patients, and then you do goals,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1463.3300000000002,"endTime":1466.63,"body":"like a building, like a tree."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1466.9,"endTime":1469.99,"body":"Wow, I mean, things they don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1466.9,"endTime":1469.99,"body":"want. And then you go to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1470.44,"endTime":1475.06,"body":"strategies, like, wow, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1470.44,"endTime":1475.06,"body":"I'll face I'll do this"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1475.06,"endTime":1479.26,"body":"somewhere. Find solar"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1475.06,"endTime":1479.26,"body":"collectors, then you go to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1479.26,"endTime":1483.13,"body":"tactics, which are short term"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1479.26,"endTime":1483.13,"body":"strategies, change lightbulbs,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1483.79,"endTime":1486.5800000000002,"body":"change, furniture, whatever"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1483.79,"endTime":1486.5800000000002,"body":"you're gonna do, right away. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1486.5800000000002,"endTime":1491.3500000000001,"body":"then finally, you got to value"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1486.5800000000002,"endTime":1491.3500000000001,"body":"and you say, Look, my diet is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1491.3500000000001,"endTime":1495.04,"body":"better. And you notice that if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1491.3500000000001,"endTime":1495.04,"body":"you start with value, she can"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1495.04,"endTime":1498.0700000000002,"body":"get to that point. And that's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1495.04,"endTime":1498.0700000000002,"body":"what we do. Otherwise, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1498.0700000000002,"endTime":1500.14,"body":"couldn't keep doing it. I work"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1498.0700000000002,"endTime":1500.14,"body":"in commerce. And if I don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1500.14,"endTime":1503.29,"body":"produce value, I don't get to do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1500.14,"endTime":1503.29,"body":"it again. But I start with my"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1503.29,"endTime":1506.17,"body":"values, and that's what"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1503.29,"endTime":1506.17,"body":"designers get to do. And then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1506.44,"endTime":1510.49,"body":"for engineers, we often start"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1506.44,"endTime":1510.49,"body":"with number, statistical"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1510.49,"endTime":1513.52,"body":"significance. Because what"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1510.49,"endTime":1513.52,"body":"Aristotle is looking for is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1513.52,"endTime":1517.63,"body":"truth in number and truth in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1513.52,"endTime":1517.63,"body":"science. So you want to combine"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1517.63,"endTime":1521.8,"body":"truth and beauty, with truth in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1517.63,"endTime":1521.8,"body":"number and science. That's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1521.8,"endTime":1524.5900000000001,"body":"practical wisdom. But if you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1521.8,"endTime":1524.5900000000001,"body":"start with the value in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1524.5900000000001,"endTime":1528.7,"body":"numbers, all you can do is move"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1524.5900000000001,"endTime":1528.7,"body":"on Two strategies to get the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1528.7,"endTime":1533.3200000000002,"body":"goals. You set goals and then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1528.7,"endTime":1533.3200000000002,"body":"you're benchmarking. So you're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1533.3200000000002,"endTime":1536.17,"body":"always in number world, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1533.3200000000002,"endTime":1536.17,"body":"never get to your values from"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1536.17,"endTime":1539.89,"body":"there, you only get the lesson"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1536.17,"endTime":1539.89,"body":"more. You never got to good and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1539.89,"endTime":1543.67,"body":"bad. And that's why we have this"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1539.89,"endTime":1543.67,"body":"weird anomaly in the world, that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1543.67,"endTime":1547.69,"body":"people think that being less bad"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1543.67,"endTime":1547.69,"body":"is being good. Which is crazy,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1547.72,"endTime":1551.14,"body":"because less is in America"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1547.72,"endTime":1551.14,"body":"relationship. That is a human"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1551.14,"endTime":1555.88,"body":"value. So they don't go that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1551.14,"endTime":1555.88,"body":"way. less bad is still bad, by"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1555.88,"endTime":1562.0900000000001,"body":"definition, just less. See. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1555.88,"endTime":1562.0900000000001,"body":"it's funny the other day"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1562.0900000000001,"endTime":1564.88,"body":"somebody said, Bill, I love the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1562.0900000000001,"endTime":1564.88,"body":"way you phrase this. That's bad."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1564.88,"endTime":1567.8500000000001,"body":"It's not good. So isn't it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1564.88,"endTime":1567.8500000000001,"body":"interesting that when you see a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1567.8500000000001,"endTime":1568.3300000000002,"body":"double"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1569.8600000000001,"endTime":1575.5900000000001,"body":"positive, if a double negative"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1569.8600000000001,"endTime":1575.5900000000001,"body":"is a positive thing, Julian's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1575.5900000000001,"endTime":1579.94,"body":"positive a double positive? I've"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1575.5900000000001,"endTime":1579.94,"body":"never heard anybody say a double"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1579.94,"endTime":1583.51,"body":"positive, that's negative. My"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1579.94,"endTime":1583.51,"body":"answer to that was Yeah, right."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1587.53,"endTime":1592.8700000000001,"body":"So I think keep it clear, given"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1587.53,"endTime":1592.8700000000001,"body":"values and value to both to both"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1592.9,"endTime":1593.44,"body":"all the time."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1594.04,"endTime":1597.3400000000001,"body":"Okay. Okay. And I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1594.04,"endTime":1597.3400000000001,"body":"should I should credit the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1597.5800000000002,"endTime":1600.5800000000002,"body":"LinkedIn follower who put who"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1597.5800000000002,"endTime":1600.5800000000002,"body":"gave me that question. His name"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1600.5800000000002,"endTime":1603.8500000000001,"body":"is Sergei, Isa cough, I hope I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1600.5800000000002,"endTime":1603.8500000000001,"body":"pronounced his name correctly."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1604.63,"endTime":1608.44,"body":"But a few years ago, you posited"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1604.63,"endTime":1608.44,"body":"what's been called a new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1608.44,"endTime":1612.8500000000001,"body":"language for carbon in an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1608.44,"endTime":1612.8500000000001,"body":"article in science in nature,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1613.6000000000001,"endTime":1616.81,"body":"entitled carbon is not the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1613.6000000000001,"endTime":1616.81,"body":"enemy. Or why do you think we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1616.81,"endTime":1620.38,"body":"need to reconsider the words we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1616.81,"endTime":1620.38,"body":"use when we speak of carbon?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1620.71,"endTime":1626.74,"body":"Well, I became a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1620.71,"endTime":1626.74,"body":"bit sad. When everybody keeps"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1626.74,"endTime":1630.0700000000002,"body":"saying carbon is the enemy, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1626.74,"endTime":1630.0700000000002,"body":"know, we need a carbon war room,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1630.28,"endTime":1638.1100000000001,"body":"I was part of that meeting. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1630.28,"endTime":1638.1100000000001,"body":"warm room. And that carbon is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1638.1100000000001,"endTime":1643.24,"body":"the enemy and carbon is bad. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1638.1100000000001,"endTime":1643.24,"body":"the poor element carbon, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1644.41,"endTime":1650.74,"body":"horrible way to think about we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1644.41,"endTime":1650.74,"body":"are carbon. If you have carbon"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1650.74,"endTime":1653.56,"body":"is the enemy, then you're your"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1650.74,"endTime":1653.56,"body":"own enemy, because your living"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1653.56,"endTime":1657.91,"body":"thing as carbon. So current, we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1653.56,"endTime":1657.91,"body":"have to love carbon, we just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1657.91,"endTime":1662.38,"body":"have to stop putting the wrong"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1657.91,"endTime":1662.38,"body":"place. So I thought it would be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1662.38,"endTime":1665.5,"body":"good, especially for the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1662.38,"endTime":1665.5,"body":"children, not to keep saying"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1665.5,"endTime":1669.4,"body":"carbon is bad. So I decided,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1665.5,"endTime":1669.4,"body":"wouldn't it be nice if we could"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1669.49,"endTime":1675.28,"body":"characterize carbon speak for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1669.49,"endTime":1675.28,"body":"what it what we do with it? And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1675.28,"endTime":1678.91,"body":"how we can celebrate that. So I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1675.28,"endTime":1678.91,"body":"thought, what if we spoke of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1678.91,"endTime":1682.06,"body":"living carbon? That would be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1678.91,"endTime":1682.06,"body":"essentially, you know, green"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1682.0900000000001,"endTime":1685.39,"body":"carbon, that's carbon from the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1682.0900000000001,"endTime":1685.39,"body":"atmosphere, through"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1685.39,"endTime":1689.26,"body":"photosynthesis, and suddenly"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1685.39,"endTime":1689.26,"body":"becoming the verge of the world"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1689.26,"endTime":1694.75,"body":"that supports us is awesome. All"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1689.26,"endTime":1694.75,"body":"that. So living carp, wonderful."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1695.5,"endTime":1699.25,"body":"And then so if we produce more"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1695.5,"endTime":1699.25,"body":"living carbon than our carbon"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1699.25,"endTime":1704.6200000000001,"body":"positive behavior, it's carbon"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1699.25,"endTime":1704.6200000000001,"body":"positive behavior. The more the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1704.6200000000001,"endTime":1707.6200000000001,"body":"merrier, regenerative"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1704.6200000000001,"endTime":1707.6200000000001,"body":"agriculture, go for it. And then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1708.13,"endTime":1711.97,"body":"then there's durable carbon."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1708.13,"endTime":1711.97,"body":"Now, durable carbon is that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1711.97,"endTime":1716.0800000000002,"body":"which we can use generations or"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1711.97,"endTime":1716.0800000000002,"body":"sits still a limestone mountain,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1716.68,"endTime":1721.3600000000001,"body":"sitting still durable carbon."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1716.68,"endTime":1721.3600000000001,"body":"But so as a plastic bottle, or"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1721.3600000000001,"endTime":1725.6200000000001,"body":"packaged as reusable being"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1721.3600000000001,"endTime":1725.6200000000001,"body":"reused, it's durable, and we're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1725.6200000000001,"endTime":1729.13,"body":"using it over and over again. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1725.6200000000001,"endTime":1729.13,"body":"staying in the technosphere not"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1729.13,"endTime":1732.64,"body":"going future by us. So that's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1729.13,"endTime":1732.64,"body":"why we're upset about single use"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1732.8200000000002,"endTime":1736.48,"body":"plastics, because they're not"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1732.8200000000002,"endTime":1736.48,"body":"durable. They go and get"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1736.48,"endTime":1741.43,"body":"fugitive on us. Right. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1736.48,"endTime":1741.43,"body":"durables. A wouldn't be even a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1741.43,"endTime":1746.1100000000001,"body":"building will be a durable"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1741.43,"endTime":1746.1100000000001,"body":"carbon, you know, in a building"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1746.1100000000001,"endTime":1749.89,"body":"for 1000 years. And then we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1746.1100000000001,"endTime":1749.89,"body":"could put it back in soil if you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1749.89,"endTime":1753.22,"body":"haven't talked about it, but"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1749.89,"endTime":1753.22,"body":"lead paint or something, but can"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1753.22,"endTime":1757.27,"body":"stay in use. So durable. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1753.22,"endTime":1757.27,"body":"then there's fugitive carbon."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1761.77,"body":"And that's the big ups. That's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1761.77,"body":"when we let it loose and just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1761.77,"endTime":1766.51,"body":"goes wherever a fugitive sort of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1761.77,"endTime":1766.51,"body":"implies low criminality escape"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1767.5900000000001,"endTime":1771.6100000000001,"body":"system. And so the stuff that we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1767.5900000000001,"endTime":1771.6100000000001,"body":"send to the atmosphere today is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1771.6100000000001,"endTime":1777.19,"body":"the toxin. So okay, fugitive in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1771.6100000000001,"endTime":1777.19,"body":"the atmosphere, whoops. No,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1777.19,"endTime":1780.01,"body":"that's not good behavior. So we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1777.19,"endTime":1780.01,"body":"could call that carbon negative"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1780.01,"endTime":1784.0,"body":"behavior. But I get really"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1780.01,"endTime":1784.0,"body":"confused that children have a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1784.0,"endTime":1786.73,"body":"tough time with this, too. When"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1784.0,"endTime":1786.73,"body":"you hear people say I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1786.73,"endTime":1790.27,"body":"be carbon negative. You'll hear"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1786.73,"endTime":1790.27,"body":"that now because they'll say I'm"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1790.27,"endTime":1794.26,"body":"going to take carbon out of the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1790.27,"endTime":1794.26,"body":"atmosphere. Great idea. Really"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1794.26,"endTime":1800.1100000000001,"body":"important. Got to do lots of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1794.26,"endTime":1800.1100000000001,"body":"that. But carbon negative. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1801.31,"endTime":1805.8400000000001,"body":"Okay. So I feel like we should"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1801.31,"endTime":1805.8400000000001,"body":"say, that's, you know, we're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1805.8400000000001,"endTime":1810.79,"body":"gonna, we're gonna behave,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1805.8400000000001,"endTime":1810.79,"body":"that's a negative behavior. Is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1810.8200000000002,"endTime":1814.69,"body":"the carbon in the atmosphere"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1810.8200000000002,"endTime":1814.69,"body":"yet? It's double negatives are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1815.05,"endTime":1819.55,"body":"tricky. So I think Gears of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1815.05,"endTime":1819.55,"body":"karma we got to stop and there's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1819.55,"endTime":1825.04,"body":"fugitive durable carbon. Plastic"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1819.55,"endTime":1825.04,"body":"Bottle floating in the ocean. Is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1825.04,"endTime":1829.1200000000001,"body":"fugitive, durable, right? So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1825.04,"endTime":1829.1200000000001,"body":"there's your language right"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1829.1200000000001,"endTime":1834.3400000000001,"body":"there. So no more fuse. With"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1829.1200000000001,"endTime":1834.3400000000001,"body":"that, we're not doing that. Or"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1834.5800000000002,"endTime":1838.06,"body":"if it is going to go a few"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1834.5800000000002,"endTime":1838.06,"body":"weeks, it might well, then let's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1838.06,"endTime":1843.01,"body":"design it to be safe in nature,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1838.06,"endTime":1843.01,"body":"just like the cherry blossom. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1843.22,"endTime":1845.8,"body":"we're gonna have small form"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1843.22,"endTime":1845.8,"body":"factor packaging, and, and we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1845.8,"endTime":1849.22,"body":"can't collect it because it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1845.8,"endTime":1849.22,"body":"just too small or whatever, that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1849.22,"endTime":1852.88,"body":"should absolutely be a cherry"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1849.22,"endTime":1852.88,"body":"blossom. You know, and if it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1852.88,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"finds itself in the natural"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1852.88,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"world, it's just right in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1858.43,"endTime":1862.54,"body":"oceans, it doesn't produce"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1858.43,"endTime":1862.54,"body":"microplastics those things and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1863.2,"endTime":1866.98,"body":"like, so it's a design"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1863.2,"endTime":1866.98,"body":"assignment all the way from"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1867.49,"endTime":1871.8700000000001,"body":"ephemeral, to highly durable"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1867.49,"endTime":1871.8700000000001,"body":"things. Okay. And the entire"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1871.8700000000001,"endTime":1874.0,"body":"spectrum in between. and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1875.29,"endTime":1878.44,"body":"carbon negative is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1875.29,"endTime":1878.44,"body":"the wrong terminology to use,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1878.44,"endTime":1881.53,"body":"what would be the right"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1878.44,"endTime":1881.53,"body":"terminology to use for people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1881.68,"endTime":1883.63,"body":"taking carbon back out of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1881.68,"endTime":1883.63,"body":"atmosphere?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1883.93,"endTime":1886.0900000000001,"body":"Well, the terms"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1883.93,"endTime":1886.0900000000001,"body":"of art that are out there now"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1886.1200000000001,"endTime":1893.71,"body":"are things like carbon removal,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1886.1200000000001,"endTime":1893.71,"body":"or carbon capture. Those are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1893.71,"endTime":1898.93,"body":"terms that are specific to that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1893.71,"endTime":1898.93,"body":"kind of agenda. We can use"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1898.93,"endTime":1902.89,"body":"nature based solutions to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1898.93,"endTime":1902.89,"body":"sequester carbon. So it can be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1902.89,"endTime":1907.75,"body":"in soil and in roots, and in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1902.89,"endTime":1907.75,"body":"verger, mangroves are amazing,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1908.17,"endTime":1912.73,"body":"and so on. So, but the idea of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1908.17,"endTime":1912.73,"body":"saying that mangrove is carbon"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1912.73,"endTime":1918.5800000000002,"body":"negative, it doesn't really give"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1912.73,"endTime":1918.5800000000002,"body":"the joy and spirit on what's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1918.5800000000002,"endTime":1923.38,"body":"going on here. So yeah, I would"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1918.5800000000002,"endTime":1923.38,"body":"just be more specific and say,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1923.38,"endTime":1927.31,"body":"we are sequestering if you're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1923.38,"endTime":1927.31,"body":"putting it into some durable"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1927.31,"endTime":1931.3,"body":"state, whether it's in a forest,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1927.31,"endTime":1931.3,"body":"and it's for a period of time,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1931.3,"endTime":1934.8700000000001,"body":"and that's part of the cycle, or"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1931.3,"endTime":1934.8700000000001,"body":"you put it back underground,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1935.26,"endTime":1938.14,"body":"which is something we should,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1935.26,"endTime":1938.14,"body":"you know, we took it from the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1938.14,"endTime":1943.1200000000001,"body":"geo strobe, put it back, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1938.14,"endTime":1943.1200000000001,"body":"know, okay, that doesn't, that's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1943.1200000000001,"endTime":1945.94,"body":"not crazy idea. It's the problem"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1943.1200000000001,"endTime":1945.94,"body":"with things like that, it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1945.94,"endTime":1948.91,"body":"often they're, they're not cost"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1945.94,"endTime":1948.91,"body":"effective, because you're not"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1948.91,"endTime":1952.3,"body":"producing value, per se with it."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1948.91,"endTime":1952.3,"body":"But we will see that coming"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1952.3,"endTime":1956.2,"body":"because the value will be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1952.3,"endTime":1956.2,"body":"recognized that there is a price"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1956.29,"endTime":1960.1000000000001,"body":"on a piece of carpet. And at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1956.29,"endTime":1960.1000000000001,"body":"some point, you'll we'll say"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1960.19,"endTime":1963.94,"body":"this is important that we do it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1960.19,"endTime":1963.94,"body":"because nature is going to have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1963.94,"endTime":1967.72,"body":"a very tough time keeping up"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1963.94,"endTime":1967.72,"body":"with human emissions. Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1967.72,"endTime":1971.77,"body":"really does. So we got to bring"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1967.72,"endTime":1971.77,"body":"every tool we have to the to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1971.77,"endTime":1977.26,"body":"this exercise every single one,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1971.77,"endTime":1977.26,"body":"including carbon capture. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1978.4,"endTime":1984.76,"body":"yeah. But it's carbon positive"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1978.4,"endTime":1984.76,"body":"behavior. It's like good"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1984.76,"endTime":1987.79,"body":"behavior with carbon. Yes, I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1984.76,"endTime":1987.79,"body":"love that. So you can tell the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1987.79,"endTime":1993.3700000000001,"body":"kids say, you share a little"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1987.79,"endTime":1993.3700000000001,"body":"carbon positive bracelet. And it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1993.3700000000001,"endTime":1999.3700000000001,"body":"tells the story. Yeah, life,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":1993.3700000000001,"endTime":1999.3700000000001,"body":"more life, less, less death."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2000.1200000000001,"endTime":2004.89,"body":"And the circular"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2000.1200000000001,"endTime":2004.89,"body":"carbon economy. Just to bring"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2004.89,"endTime":2007.44,"body":"everything back to circularity."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2004.89,"endTime":2007.44,"body":"Again. Can you talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2007.44,"endTime":2007.89,"body":"about that?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2008.6100000000001,"endTime":2014.73,"body":"Yeah, happy to."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2008.6100000000001,"endTime":2014.73,"body":"I was in Davos, a year plus ago,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2015.96,"endTime":2019.74,"body":"where I had been the chair of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2015.96,"endTime":2019.74,"body":"the Council on circular economy,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2020.25,"endTime":2025.3500000000001,"body":"for the World Economic Forum."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2020.25,"endTime":2025.3500000000001,"body":"And so we really are vigorously"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2025.3500000000001,"endTime":2028.38,"body":"engaged this circular economy"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2025.3500000000001,"endTime":2028.38,"body":"concept. And a lot of it's based"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2028.38,"endTime":2032.79,"body":"on Cradle to Cradle because some"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2028.38,"endTime":2032.79,"body":"of the more some of the more"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2032.8200000000002,"endTime":2036.45,"body":"important players in this have"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2032.8200000000002,"endTime":2036.45,"body":"adopted our biological technical"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2036.9,"endTime":2040.98,"body":"cycle concept, and a kind of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2036.9,"endTime":2040.98,"body":"butterfly diagram, things like"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2040.98,"endTime":2046.8600000000001,"body":"that. And so, you know, so I'm,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2040.98,"endTime":2046.8600000000001,"body":"we're known for that. But for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2046.8600000000001,"endTime":2049.98,"body":"soccer COMM And I worked with a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2046.8600000000001,"endTime":2049.98,"body":"Chinese and ammonius circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2049.98,"endTime":2055.0499999999997,"body":"economy, way back then. So that,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2049.98,"endTime":2055.0499999999997,"body":"but then all of a sudden, there"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2055.0499999999997,"endTime":2058.86,"body":"has to consider the role of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2055.0499999999997,"endTime":2058.86,"body":"carbon in Singapore,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2059.79,"endTime":2063.39,"body":"specifically. And what I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2059.79,"endTime":2063.39,"body":"realized is I did want to talk"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2063.39,"endTime":2068.34,"body":"about because carbon in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2063.39,"endTime":2068.34,"body":"circular economy is both a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2068.34,"endTime":2073.29,"body":"material and a fuel. It's very"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2068.34,"endTime":2073.29,"body":"unusual. So in the circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2073.29,"endTime":2077.43,"body":"economy, we want to reuse"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2073.29,"endTime":2077.43,"body":"things. But in the circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2077.43,"endTime":2080.91,"body":"economy, if we start just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2077.43,"endTime":2080.91,"body":"measuring our missions, and we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2080.91,"endTime":2084.2400000000002,"body":"try to reduce them, try to do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2080.91,"endTime":2084.2400000000002,"body":"less all the time. So we thought"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2084.2400000000002,"endTime":2086.61,"body":"about the climate, well, if we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2084.2400000000002,"endTime":2086.61,"body":"do more efficiently, or I can"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2086.61,"endTime":2090.57,"body":"use an engine block again,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2086.61,"endTime":2090.57,"body":"instead of waiting to metal and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2090.9,"endTime":2093.78,"body":"making more cast iron, but then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2090.9,"endTime":2093.78,"body":"you stop and think well, wait a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2093.78,"endTime":2096.96,"body":"minute, what am I doing make a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2093.78,"endTime":2096.96,"body":"Cast Iron Age? or using it"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2096.96,"endTime":2099.54,"body":"again? What am I want to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2096.96,"endTime":2099.54,"body":"perpetuate the internal"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2099.54,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"combustion engine? Is that the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2099.54,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"concept like all of a sudden you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2106.4700000000003,"body":"a windmill, it's ironic. I can"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2106.4700000000003,"body":"use the material again, but oh,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2106.53,"endTime":2110.34,"body":"I'm perpetuating a system that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2106.53,"endTime":2110.34,"body":"man petrochemicals to run it. Is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2110.34,"endTime":2113.4900000000002,"body":"that intelligent or should I be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2110.34,"endTime":2113.4900000000002,"body":"focusing on electric cars? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2113.64,"endTime":2116.82,"body":"very interesting. So I thought,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2113.64,"endTime":2116.82,"body":"Well, yeah, let's take a look at"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2116.82,"endTime":2120.9,"body":"carbon as a material and fuel"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2116.82,"endTime":2120.9,"body":"and see what its role is and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2120.9,"endTime":2124.23,"body":"it's quite phenomenal, really,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2120.9,"endTime":2124.23,"body":"how special it is when you stop"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2124.23,"endTime":2128.58,"body":"and characterize it on its own."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2124.23,"endTime":2128.58,"body":"Because it's the thing Unlike"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2128.58,"endTime":2131.46,"body":"the circular economy, not that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2128.58,"endTime":2131.46,"body":"we just want to reuse it, of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2131.46,"endTime":2137.55,"body":"course you do. But we want to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2131.46,"endTime":2137.55,"body":"remove it. Remove it. Isn't that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2137.55,"endTime":2140.01,"body":"interesting. So we don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2137.55,"endTime":2140.01,"body":"necessarily say we want to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2140.01,"endTime":2143.46,"body":"remove things in a circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2140.01,"endTime":2143.46,"body":"economy, we want to reuse"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2143.46,"endTime":2149.31,"body":"things. Here's one, we actually"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2143.46,"endTime":2149.31,"body":"got to go get it and remove it."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2150.42,"endTime":2155.91,"body":"So that's why we did that for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2150.42,"endTime":2155.91,"body":"the G 20. presidency last year,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2156.3,"endTime":2161.46,"body":"working with various other"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2156.3,"endTime":2161.46,"body":"agencies and parties, and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2161.46,"endTime":2164.73,"body":"created a guide for the circular"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2161.46,"endTime":2164.73,"body":"carbon economy, which is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2165.12,"endTime":2168.9900000000002,"body":"essentially, from the fuel side,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2165.12,"endTime":2168.9900000000002,"body":"it's just reducing emissions"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2169.44,"endTime":2173.13,"body":"dramatically. So we made Paris"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2169.44,"endTime":2173.13,"body":"goals. So we mapped it against"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2173.13,"endTime":2177.51,"body":"Paris goals, right. And then, on"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2173.13,"endTime":2177.51,"body":"the other hand, you see it as a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2177.9,"endTime":2182.79,"body":"material is domestic viable. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2177.9,"endTime":2182.79,"body":"you have both conditions. So as"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2182.79,"endTime":2186.81,"body":"we remove it, we can also use"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2182.79,"endTime":2186.81,"body":"it, we use it and not make a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2186.81,"endTime":2190.08,"body":"future again. So all of a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2186.81,"endTime":2190.08,"body":"sudden, we start to imagine, in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2190.08,"endTime":2193.65,"body":"2050, for example, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2190.08,"endTime":2193.65,"body":"that we'll need any"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2193.65,"endTime":2197.46,"body":"petrochemicals or hydrocarbons"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2193.65,"endTime":2197.46,"body":"for plastics. My guess is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2197.46,"endTime":2200.4,"body":"they'll be semi plastics in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2197.46,"endTime":2200.4,"body":"world, that we'll be putting"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2200.4,"endTime":2204.2400000000002,"body":"them through chemical recycling,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2200.4,"endTime":2204.2400000000002,"body":"and it's all there. And so, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2204.2400000000002,"endTime":2207.18,"body":"know, do we really, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2204.2400000000002,"endTime":2207.18,"body":"what is the future of all this."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2207.96,"endTime":2212.4900000000002,"body":"And so that'd be part of it. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2207.96,"endTime":2212.4900000000002,"body":"then we'd also want to stop"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2212.4900000000002,"endTime":2215.76,"body":"emitting carbon in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2212.4900000000002,"endTime":2215.76,"body":"atmosphere by 2050, assists zero"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2215.76,"endTime":2219.2400000000002,"body":"emissions is the goal. And let's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2215.76,"endTime":2219.2400000000002,"body":"all have that goal, including"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2219.2400000000002,"endTime":2223.56,"body":"Saudi Arabia, let's have that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2219.2400000000002,"endTime":2223.56,"body":"goal. And that's what we did. So"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2223.59,"endTime":2227.7000000000003,"body":"so it is useful to look at the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2223.59,"endTime":2227.7000000000003,"body":"carbon on its own terms, as part"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2227.7000000000003,"endTime":2230.58,"body":"of the circular economies, it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2227.7000000000003,"endTime":2230.58,"body":"not a replacement, or just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2230.58,"endTime":2234.27,"body":"simply a focus on that material"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2230.58,"endTime":2234.27,"body":"within old systems. And you end"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2234.27,"endTime":2239.46,"body":"up these very beautiful diagrams"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2234.27,"endTime":2239.46,"body":"that everyone can share. And you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2239.46,"endTime":2244.17,"body":"can find your way to do it, zero"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2239.46,"endTime":2244.17,"body":"emissions, figure out your way,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2244.4700000000003,"endTime":2248.58,"body":"what works for you where you are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2244.4700000000003,"endTime":2248.58,"body":"with your people. And for me,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2248.58,"endTime":2252.66,"body":"the main goal of all this is to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2248.58,"endTime":2252.66,"body":"understand energy and then"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2252.66,"endTime":2256.17,"body":"provide as much affordable"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2252.66,"endTime":2256.17,"body":"energy is possible, of the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2256.17,"endTime":2260.28,"body":"safest possible kind to the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2256.17,"endTime":2260.28,"body":"largest number of people. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2260.28,"endTime":2266.76,"body":"that's really, I think, why"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2260.28,"endTime":2266.76,"body":"hydrocarbons are so are so"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2267.51,"endTime":2272.31,"body":"common, is because they provide"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2267.51,"endTime":2272.31,"body":"inexpensive energy to large"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2272.31,"endTime":2276.54,"body":"numbers of people. Well, we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2272.31,"endTime":2276.54,"body":"don't lose that. We just want to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2276.54,"endTime":2281.43,"body":"lose the admission space. Sure,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2276.54,"endTime":2281.43,"body":"Bill,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.459,"endTime":2285.809,"body":"are you considering"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2281.459,"endTime":2285.809,"body":"all the topics we've discussed?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2285.839,"endTime":2288.659,"body":"And the the issues that still"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2285.839,"endTime":2288.659,"body":"remain? Are you are you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2288.659,"endTime":2289.859,"body":"optimistic for our future?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2290.31,"endTime":2294.06,"body":"Well, yes,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2290.31,"endTime":2294.06,"body":"because designers are inherently"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2294.06,"endTime":2297.81,"body":"optimistic. It's part of our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2294.06,"endTime":2297.81,"body":"nature, we wake up in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2297.81,"endTime":2301.5,"body":"morning, we will make the world"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2297.81,"endTime":2301.5,"body":"better. Right? So how do you do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2301.5,"endTime":2306.7200000000003,"body":"that if you're not optimistic?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2301.5,"endTime":2306.7200000000003,"body":"Also, I think somebody wants"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2306.9,"endTime":2309.9,"body":"characterize me and they said,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2306.9,"endTime":2309.9,"body":"you know, some people think they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2309.9,"endTime":2314.73,"body":"see glass. And they characterize"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2309.9,"endTime":2314.73,"body":"if they're pessimists, this is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2314.73,"endTime":2320.16,"body":"half empty. It's a mistake"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2314.73,"endTime":2320.16,"body":"characterize this awful. But for"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2320.16,"endTime":2328.2000000000003,"body":"me, I think the glass is always"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2320.16,"endTime":2328.2000000000003,"body":"full of water, and air. So if"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2328.2000000000003,"endTime":2332.58,"body":"you want more water, you need a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2328.2000000000003,"endTime":2332.58,"body":"bigger glass. Right? Because as"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2332.58,"endTime":2337.83,"body":"the Tao says, if you if you tell"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2332.58,"endTime":2337.83,"body":"you a cup to the brim, it will"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2339.51,"endTime":2344.43,"body":"overflow. So if you want more to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2339.51,"endTime":2344.43,"body":"share, which is what I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2344.43,"endTime":2350.2200000000003,"body":"for, with each other, we need"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2344.43,"endTime":2350.2200000000003,"body":"bigger glass. So how do we make"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2350.52,"endTime":2355.41,"body":"more clean water so that all"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2350.52,"endTime":2355.41,"body":"children have it every day? So I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2355.41,"endTime":2358.68,"body":"guess it makes me an optimist."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2355.41,"endTime":2358.68,"body":"Super, super."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2359.2200000000003,"endTime":2360.6,"body":"We're coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2359.2200000000003,"endTime":2360.6,"body":"towards the end of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2360.6,"endTime":2364.8,"body":"Now, Bill. Is there any question"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2360.6,"endTime":2364.8,"body":"I haven't asked you that you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2364.83,"endTime":2367.8,"body":"wish I had, or any topic we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2364.83,"endTime":2367.8,"body":"not discussed that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2367.8,"endTime":2369.7200000000003,"body":"it's important that people are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2367.8,"endTime":2369.7200000000003,"body":"aware of?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2370.14,"endTime":2372.81,"body":"I one of the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2370.14,"endTime":2372.81,"body":"great privileges of getting to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2372.81,"endTime":2376.14,"body":"work with companies and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2372.81,"endTime":2376.14,"body":"countries and people in this"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2376.14,"endTime":2386.01,"body":"way, is the joy of seeing humans"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2376.14,"endTime":2386.01,"body":"rise to this occasion. And so I"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2386.01,"endTime":2388.7400000000002,"body":"think that one thing I'd"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2386.01,"endTime":2388.7400000000002,"body":"recommend everybody do is just"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2388.7400000000002,"endTime":2393.2400000000002,"body":"look, look at what people are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2388.7400000000002,"endTime":2393.2400000000002,"body":"doing. And let's understand our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2393.2400000000002,"endTime":2397.71,"body":"legacies, but not in terms of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2393.2400000000002,"endTime":2397.71,"body":"just how miserable we are. From"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2397.71,"endTime":2401.13,"body":"whenever we did a stop and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2397.71,"endTime":2401.13,"body":"reflect like, let's not do that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2401.13,"endTime":2405.7200000000003,"body":"again. Right? So stop, say"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2401.13,"endTime":2405.7200000000003,"body":"that's our legacy. But we did in"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2405.7200000000003,"endTime":2408.9900000000002,"body":"the energy space, we did provide"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2405.7200000000003,"endTime":2408.9900000000002,"body":"affordable energy to people we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2408.9900000000002,"endTime":2413.55,"body":"did provide health care of chi,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2408.9900000000002,"endTime":2413.55,"body":"we did help with poverty, we did"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2413.55,"endTime":2417.06,"body":"help with child mortality"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2413.55,"endTime":2417.06,"body":"centers. I mean, there's those"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2417.06,"endTime":2420.78,"body":"things but it's not what we're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2417.06,"endTime":2420.78,"body":"looking for, as you call it,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2420.87,"endTime":2424.44,"body":"ecologically minded people. But"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2420.87,"endTime":2424.44,"body":"it certainly is through your own"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2424.44,"endTime":2428.28,"body":"personal ecology. Your life is"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2424.44,"endTime":2428.28,"body":"you're still here. Right,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2428.31,"endTime":2433.02,"body":"medieval time, you wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2428.31,"endTime":2433.02,"body":"here either. So whatever. But so"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2433.02,"endTime":2435.36,"body":"I think we should celebrate our"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2433.02,"endTime":2435.36,"body":"legacies and say we learn from"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2435.36,"endTime":2438.66,"body":"them. And then, and then we look"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2435.36,"endTime":2438.66,"body":"at our current situation and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2438.66,"endTime":2442.17,"body":"say, what are we doing today"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2438.66,"endTime":2442.17,"body":"that we need to scale? What are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2442.17,"endTime":2446.19,"body":"we doing today that we need to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2442.17,"endTime":2446.19,"body":"scale? So solar, guess what we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2446.19,"endTime":2450.09,"body":"did it? I mean, yes. And so now"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2446.19,"endTime":2450.09,"body":"we can be at one and a half"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2450.09,"endTime":2452.1,"body":"cents a kilowatt hour in the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2450.09,"endTime":2452.1,"body":"deserts. My goodness, that means"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2452.1,"endTime":2455.58,"body":"we make hydrogen. That means."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2452.1,"endTime":2455.58,"body":"That means we can do all kinds"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2455.58,"endTime":2458.2200000000003,"body":"of things that we couldn't do"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2455.58,"endTime":2458.2200000000003,"body":"before. So this idea of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2458.2200000000003,"endTime":2462.36,"body":"electrifying, the whole system"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2458.2200000000003,"endTime":2462.36,"body":"is really great. And the great"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2462.36,"endTime":2465.6,"body":"thing about renewables is they"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2462.36,"endTime":2465.6,"body":"can make electricity, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2465.6,"endTime":2468.9,"body":"affordably wind, solar, and so"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2465.6,"endTime":2468.9,"body":"on. So yes, now we need to get"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2468.9,"endTime":2472.68,"body":"into new kinds of wiring to be"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2468.9,"endTime":2472.68,"body":"able to move large amounts"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2472.68,"endTime":2475.41,"body":"around, we need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2472.68,"endTime":2475.41,"body":"export renewable power around"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2475.41,"endTime":2478.86,"body":"the world to each other. If you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2475.41,"endTime":2478.86,"body":"haven't had before, we just saw"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2478.89,"endTime":2483.21,"body":"for shipments, it's just a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2478.89,"endTime":2483.21,"body":"prototype of the shipment of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2484.38,"endTime":2489.78,"body":"hydrogen in from ammonia, from"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2484.38,"endTime":2489.78,"body":"Saudi Arabia to Japan. Now that"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2489.78,"endTime":2493.17,"body":"was blue hydrogen, so it was"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2489.78,"endTime":2493.17,"body":"created from natural gas. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2493.17,"endTime":2496.56,"body":"it's sequestered carbon. So it's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2493.17,"endTime":2496.56,"body":"just a harbinger of an ocean."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2496.86,"endTime":2501.87,"body":"But the idea that you could move"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2496.86,"endTime":2501.87,"body":"hydrogen from the Red Sea to"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2502.11,"endTime":2506.34,"body":"Japan, side of the world is a"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2502.11,"endTime":2506.34,"body":"first large scale shipment of"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2506.34,"endTime":2508.9500000000003,"body":"renewable power over huge"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2506.34,"endTime":2508.9500000000003,"body":"distances, the other side of the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2508.9500000000003,"endTime":2511.7400000000002,"body":"planet. So all of a sudden, you"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2508.9500000000003,"endTime":2511.7400000000002,"body":"know, if we're going to ship"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2511.7400000000002,"endTime":2515.73,"body":"around volatile liquids, when we"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2511.7400000000002,"endTime":2515.73,"body":"ship hydrogen, to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2515.76,"endTime":2518.46,"body":"people when I need it, because"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2515.76,"endTime":2518.46,"body":"they don't have the space for an"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2518.46,"endTime":2522.21,"body":"oval, so they don't have access"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2518.46,"endTime":2522.21,"body":"to that. So I've suddenly start"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2522.21,"endTime":2525.9,"body":"to see optimized systems for me,"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2522.21,"endTime":2525.9,"body":"that's pretty great. So those"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2525.9,"endTime":2528.54,"body":"are things that are going on now"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2525.9,"endTime":2528.54,"body":"that we want to scale as long as"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2528.54,"endTime":2531.93,"body":"you're careful. And we don't"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2528.54,"endTime":2531.93,"body":"trash the join with solar"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2531.93,"endTime":2536.58,"body":"collectors when we need"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2531.93,"endTime":2536.58,"body":"biodiversity. And then the third"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2536.58,"endTime":2540.15,"body":"would be what new ideas are"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2536.58,"endTime":2540.15,"body":"coming and celebrate them and"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2540.15,"endTime":2544.92,"body":"look for principled ideas. The"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2540.15,"endTime":2544.92,"body":"ones that actually are based on"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2544.92,"endTime":2552.48,"body":"principles. So that's the that's"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2544.92,"endTime":2552.48,"body":"the real excitement to me. And"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2552.48,"endTime":2554.46,"body":"the companies that are doing"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2552.48,"endTime":2554.46,"body":"they take a look at young"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2554.46,"endTime":2558.21,"body":"labor's I'm on their sustainable"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2554.46,"endTime":2558.21,"body":"living Plan Board. Take a look"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2558.21,"endTime":2565.5,"body":"at Unilever's new conference."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2558.21,"endTime":2565.5,"body":"It's so it's so amazing to see"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2565.5,"endTime":2568.35,"body":"companies rise into this"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2565.5,"endTime":2568.35,"body":"kitchen. And obviously, they're"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2568.35,"endTime":2572.55,"body":"not alone. There's so many"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2568.35,"endTime":2572.55,"body":"people now rising to the"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2572.61,"endTime":2578.58,"body":"occasion. Right? celebrate them."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2572.61,"endTime":2578.58,"body":"Super celebrate yourself. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2579.9,"endTime":2583.35,"body":"Okay, Billy, if"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2579.9,"endTime":2583.35,"body":"people want to know more about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2583.35,"endTime":2588.57,"body":"yourself, or about the circular"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2583.35,"endTime":2588.57,"body":"economy economy, our white"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2588.57,"endTime":2591.09,"body":"carpet is not the enemy or any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2588.57,"endTime":2591.09,"body":"of the things we discussed in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2591.09,"endTime":2593.79,"body":"the broadcast today. Where would"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2591.09,"endTime":2593.79,"body":"you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2595.9790000000003,"endTime":2600.089,"body":"It's just my"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2595.9790000000003,"endTime":2600.089,"body":"website. Yes, all their mc"},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2600.089,"endTime":2602.189,"body":"DONOH."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2603.78,"endTime":2605.55,"body":"Okay, see wherever"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2603.78,"endTime":2605.55,"body":"I put that link in the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2605.55,"endTime":2608.43,"body":"notes. And if you've anything"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2605.55,"endTime":2608.43,"body":"else you want me to link to in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2608.43,"endTime":2610.53,"body":"the show notes. Just send it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2608.43,"endTime":2610.53,"body":"through and I'll put them in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2610.53,"endTime":2614.9700000000003,"body":"show notes and everyone will see"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2610.53,"endTime":2614.9700000000003,"body":"them there. So that's been"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2614.9700000000003,"endTime":2616.71,"body":"fantastic. Bill. Thanks a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2614.9700000000003,"endTime":2616.71,"body":"million for coming on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2616.71,"endTime":2617.37,"body":"podcast today."},{"speaker":"Bill McDonough","startTime":2618.029,"endTime":2618.659,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2620.2490000000003,"endTime":2622.619,"body":"Okay, we've come to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2620.2490000000003,"endTime":2622.619,"body":"the end of the show. Thanks,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2622.619,"endTime":2626.009,"body":"everyone for listening. If you'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2622.619,"endTime":2626.009,"body":"like to know more about climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2626.039,"endTime":2630.869,"body":"21 Feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2626.039,"endTime":2630.869,"body":"to Tom Raftery at SAP comm or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2631.0190000000002,"endTime":2634.439,"body":"connect with me on LinkedIn or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2631.0190000000002,"endTime":2634.439,"body":"Twitter. If you'd like to show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2634.439,"endTime":2636.629,"body":"please don't forget to subscribe"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2634.439,"endTime":2636.629,"body":"to it in your podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2636.629,"endTime":2639.539,"body":"application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2636.629,"endTime":2639.539,"body":"episodes as soon as they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2639.539,"endTime":2643.379,"body":"published. Also, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2639.539,"endTime":2643.379,"body":"forget to rate and review the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2643.379,"endTime":2648.089,"body":"podcast. It really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2643.379,"endTime":2648.089,"body":"people to find the show. Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2648.929,"endTime":2649.859,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}