{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2.939,"endTime":5.099,"body":"Having the vantage"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2.939,"endTime":5.099,"body":"point of the world's largest"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":5.099,"endTime":8.519,"body":"asset manager, BlackRock, which"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":5.099,"endTime":8.519,"body":"has somewhere in the range of $9"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":8.519,"endTime":12.479,"body":"trillion largest asset"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":8.519,"endTime":12.479,"body":"management history, I had an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":12.479,"endTime":16.049,"body":"inside look inside the machine"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":12.479,"endTime":16.049,"body":"and started to realize that,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":16.469,"endTime":20.069,"body":"unfortunately, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":16.469,"endTime":20.069,"body":"a lot of good intentions. There"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":20.069,"endTime":23.459,"body":"are a lot of good tools that are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":20.069,"endTime":23.459,"body":"being built, but the way they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":23.459,"endTime":28.079,"body":"being implemented today doesn't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":23.459,"endTime":28.079,"body":"create for the most part, any"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":28.079,"endTime":29.369,"body":"social impact whatsoever."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.63,"endTime":35.55,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":33.63,"endTime":35.55,"body":"afternoon, or good evening"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.55,"endTime":39.27,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":35.55,"endTime":39.27,"body":"This is the climate 21 podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.3,"endTime":42.39,"body":"the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":39.3,"endTime":42.39,"body":"showcasing best practices and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.39,"endTime":45.75,"body":"climate emissions reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":42.39,"endTime":45.75,"body":"And I'm your host, global Vice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.75,"endTime":50.58,"body":"President for SAP. Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.75,"endTime":50.58,"body":"Climate 21 is the name of an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":50.58,"endTime":54.42,"body":"initiative by SAP to allow our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":50.58,"endTime":54.42,"body":"customers calculate, report and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.42,"endTime":58.14,"body":"reduce their greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":54.42,"endTime":58.14,"body":"emissions. In this climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.14,"endTime":61.8,"body":"podcast, I will showcase best"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":58.14,"endTime":61.8,"body":"practices and thought leadership"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.8,"endTime":66.3,"body":"by SAP, by our customers, by our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.8,"endTime":66.3,"body":"partners and by our competitors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.3,"endTime":70.41,"body":"if they're game in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":66.3,"endTime":70.41,"body":"emissions reductions. Don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.41,"endTime":73.92,"body":"forget to subscribe to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":70.41,"endTime":73.92,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.92,"endTime":79.38,"body":"choice to be sure you don't miss"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":73.92,"endTime":79.38,"body":"any episodes. Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.38,"endTime":82.65,"body":"Welcome to the climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":79.38,"endTime":82.65,"body":"podcast. My name is Tom Raftery"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.65,"endTime":86.34,"body":"with SAP and with me on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":82.65,"endTime":86.34,"body":"podcast today I have my special"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.34,"endTime":89.55,"body":"guest, Tariq Tariq, would you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":86.34,"endTime":89.55,"body":"like to introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":90.84,"endTime":93.45,"body":"Thanks, Tom. Glad"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":90.84,"endTime":93.45,"body":"to be here. My name is Tarik"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":93.45,"endTime":97.41,"body":"fancy. I currently am the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":93.45,"endTime":97.41,"body":"founder and CEO of Rumi, which"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":97.41,"endTime":101.4,"body":"is a nonprofit that does micro"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":97.41,"endTime":101.4,"body":"learning. But before that, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":101.4,"endTime":104.91,"body":"spent a long career in finance"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":101.4,"endTime":104.91,"body":"and was most recently BlackRock"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":104.94,"endTime":107.67,"body":"global Chief Investment Officer"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":104.94,"endTime":107.67,"body":"for sustainable investing."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":108.09,"endTime":113.4,"body":"Okay, cool. Now,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":108.09,"endTime":113.4,"body":"before we get into sustainable"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":113.4,"endTime":118.8,"body":"investing, let me just put up a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":113.4,"endTime":118.8,"body":"full disclosure here. I know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":118.83,"endTime":123.39,"body":"more about crochet than I do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":118.83,"endTime":123.39,"body":"about finance. And I don't know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.39,"endTime":127.56,"body":"a whole lot about crochet. So"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":123.39,"endTime":127.56,"body":"take it very easy on me, please."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":128.43,"endTime":132.09,"body":"I don't want to have that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":128.43,"endTime":132.09,"body":"finance gene. I find it hard to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.15,"endTime":135.39,"body":"balance a check. Nevermind, a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.15,"endTime":135.39,"body":"checkbook. So yeah."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":136.77,"endTime":139.44,"body":"noted, I totally"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":136.77,"endTime":139.44,"body":"understand how finance can get"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":139.71,"endTime":144.15,"body":"boring and jargony often, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":139.71,"endTime":144.15,"body":"going to try my best to explain"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":144.15,"endTime":146.94,"body":"things in relatable terms and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":144.15,"endTime":146.94,"body":"stay away from from jargon. It's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":146.94,"endTime":149.28,"body":"it's, I totally hear you. I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":146.94,"endTime":149.28,"body":"don't want to put anyone to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":149.28,"endTime":149.67,"body":"sleep."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":150.06,"endTime":153.06,"body":"Okay, appreciate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":150.06,"endTime":153.06,"body":"it. Thank you for that. So, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":153.06,"endTime":156.51,"body":"mean, I've had a couple of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":153.06,"endTime":156.51,"body":"guests on the podcast talking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":156.51,"endTime":161.58,"body":"about this kind of thing before."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":156.51,"endTime":161.58,"body":"Trey Callie David Harris from"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":161.58,"endTime":166.74,"body":"the London Stock Exchange group"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":161.58,"endTime":166.74,"body":"and Paula Connor from JPMorgan."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":166.98,"endTime":171.84,"body":"So you know, it's not quite"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":166.98,"endTime":171.84,"body":"without precedent. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":171.84,"endTime":176.73,"body":"want to presume that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":171.84,"endTime":176.73,"body":"people have heard people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":176.73,"endTime":180.63,"body":"listening, I've heard those are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":176.73,"endTime":180.63,"body":"know what sustainable investment"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":180.63,"endTime":184.5,"body":"actually is. So could we start"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":180.63,"endTime":184.5,"body":"off and kind of level set there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":184.5,"endTime":187.38,"body":"and talk a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":184.5,"endTime":187.38,"body":"sustainable finance and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":187.38,"endTime":190.05,"body":"sustainable investment. And you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":187.38,"endTime":190.05,"body":"know what that's all about?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":191.22,"endTime":193.5,"body":"Definitely. And let"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":191.22,"endTime":193.5,"body":"me start, even before"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":193.5,"endTime":196.38,"body":"sustainable investing, just talk"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":193.5,"endTime":196.38,"body":"really simply about what"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":196.38,"endTime":199.86,"body":"investing and finances just so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":196.38,"endTime":199.86,"body":"it's really relatable for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":199.86,"endTime":204.03,"body":"everyone, the best way to think"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":199.86,"endTime":204.03,"body":"about the financial sector is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":204.03,"endTime":209.07,"body":"dead, it sits in between the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":204.03,"endTime":209.07,"body":"savings that all of us have in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":209.07,"endTime":212.37,"body":"society, whether it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":209.07,"endTime":212.37,"body":"the checking your money in your"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":212.37,"endTime":217.71,"body":"checking account, or a pension"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":212.37,"endTime":217.71,"body":"fund managed on your behalf. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":217.74,"endTime":220.68,"body":"on the other side, the most"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":217.74,"endTime":220.68,"body":"productive uses of that capital"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":220.68,"endTime":224.13,"body":"in our economy. Right. So what"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":220.68,"endTime":224.13,"body":"actually happens is people don't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":224.55,"endTime":228.39,"body":"realize this is that you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":224.55,"endTime":228.39,"body":"indirectly own stakes in private"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":228.39,"endTime":232.35,"body":"companies in one shape, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":228.39,"endTime":232.35,"body":"know, what, some way shape or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":232.35,"endTime":235.83,"body":"form because when you believe"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":232.35,"endTime":235.83,"body":"your money with a bank, their"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":235.83,"endTime":239.4,"body":"business model is to lend that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":235.83,"endTime":239.4,"body":"out, you know, on some timeline"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":239.4,"endTime":243.18,"body":"and, and collect the difference"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":239.4,"endTime":243.18,"body":"in yield, or it's a pension"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":243.18,"endTime":245.73,"body":"fund, it could be a public one."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":243.18,"endTime":245.73,"body":"And again, they're investing for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":245.73,"endTime":248.37,"body":"the long term to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":245.73,"endTime":248.37,"body":"you have enough to retire for."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":248.64,"endTime":251.61,"body":"So in some sense, when people"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":248.64,"endTime":251.61,"body":"talk about Wall Street, they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":251.61,"endTime":254.25,"body":"talk about financial services"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":251.61,"endTime":254.25,"body":"industry, they're talking about"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":254.25,"endTime":259.41,"body":"that capital allocation machine"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":254.25,"endTime":259.41,"body":"that sits works throughout the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":259.41,"endTime":263.85,"body":"economy, and it almost kind of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":259.41,"endTime":263.85,"body":"operates to move capital to the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":263.85,"endTime":267.9,"body":"most productive uses of that. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":263.85,"endTime":267.9,"body":"creates jobs provides a return"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":267.9,"endTime":272.16,"body":"for the investor or saver and so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":267.9,"endTime":272.16,"body":"on. And so sustainable investing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":272.67,"endTime":277.47,"body":"is the idea of doing all of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":272.67,"endTime":277.47,"body":"that, but also advancing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":277.47,"endTime":282.93,"body":"sustainability goals. So in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":277.47,"endTime":282.93,"body":"addition to the core preceptive"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":282.96,"endTime":286.29,"body":"of finance, which is that you're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":282.96,"endTime":286.29,"body":"going to try to find an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":286.29,"endTime":289.92,"body":"attractive risk adjusted return"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":286.29,"endTime":289.92,"body":"for savers by investing in the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":289.92,"endTime":292.2,"body":"most productive uses of that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":289.92,"endTime":292.2,"body":"capital, which then of course"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":292.2,"endTime":294.72,"body":"has economic benefits because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":292.2,"endTime":294.72,"body":"you create new companies and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":294.72,"endTime":297.99,"body":"jobs. We're trying to direct"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":294.72,"endTime":297.99,"body":"that money towards the you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":297.99,"endTime":300.39,"body":"the things that are better for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":297.99,"endTime":300.39,"body":"the world, right They have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":300.39,"endTime":303.54,"body":"better environmental and social"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":300.39,"endTime":303.54,"body":"footprints and away from the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":303.54,"endTime":304.59,"body":"ones that are harmful."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":305.01,"endTime":310.95,"body":"Okay, and how do we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":305.01,"endTime":310.95,"body":"make sure that any money that we"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":310.98,"endTime":315.99,"body":"try and direct into sustainable"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":310.98,"endTime":315.99,"body":"investment is investing in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":316.02,"endTime":317.52,"body":"sustainable stuff?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":318.33,"endTime":320.31,"body":"Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":318.33,"endTime":320.31,"body":"that's your best the million"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":320.31,"endTime":325.17,"body":"dollar question in the sense"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":320.31,"endTime":325.17,"body":"because it is the promise of it"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":325.17,"endTime":328.71,"body":"is that sustainable investing,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":325.17,"endTime":328.71,"body":"which manifests itself in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":328.71,"endTime":331.35,"body":"different ways in different"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":328.71,"endTime":331.35,"body":"parts of the financial sector,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":331.35,"endTime":334.26,"body":"whether it's a process"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":331.35,"endTime":334.26,"body":"enhancement for existing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":334.29,"endTime":337.2,"body":"investment processes, or it's a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":334.29,"endTime":337.2,"body":"set of new products, green"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":337.2,"endTime":341.91,"body":"bonds, you know, ETFs, show the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":337.2,"endTime":341.91,"body":"things, the general idea is that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":342.12,"endTime":344.25,"body":"they should be favoring"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":342.12,"endTime":344.25,"body":"companies that are, quote"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":344.25,"endTime":348.06,"body":"unquote, better, right, better"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":344.25,"endTime":348.06,"body":"for society. Generally, that's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":348.06,"endTime":352.26,"body":"done by looking at the company's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":348.06,"endTime":352.26,"body":"ESG rating. So ESG stands for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":352.26,"endTime":355.47,"body":"environmental, social, and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":352.26,"endTime":355.47,"body":"governance. And there are a set"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":355.47,"endTime":359.64,"body":"of scores and metrics that are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":355.47,"endTime":359.64,"body":"used in the industry to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":359.67,"endTime":362.25,"body":"understand which of the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":359.67,"endTime":362.25,"body":"companies frankly, are, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":362.25,"endTime":364.8,"body":"know, are doing better for the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":362.25,"endTime":364.8,"body":"environment for society, and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":364.8,"endTime":367.17,"body":"which are the ones that are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":364.8,"endTime":367.17,"body":"doing worse. And so to give you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":367.17,"endTime":370.83,"body":"an example, if you're Exxon,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":367.17,"endTime":370.83,"body":"Mobil, Exxon Mobil, you probably"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":370.83,"endTime":374.52,"body":"get a fairly poor ranking on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":370.83,"endTime":374.52,"body":"your on the E part of the ESG"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":374.52,"endTime":378.84,"body":"score, as you can imagine,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":374.52,"endTime":378.84,"body":"exactly that, hopefully. But"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":378.84,"endTime":381.96,"body":"then the s and g are treated"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":378.84,"endTime":381.96,"body":"differently, right? The SMG are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":381.96,"endTime":384.75,"body":"very important for banks and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":381.96,"endTime":384.75,"body":"tech companies, because they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":384.75,"endTime":388.41,"body":"often have smaller carbon"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":384.75,"endTime":388.41,"body":"footprints, but they have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":388.41,"endTime":392.19,"body":"massive social implications. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":388.41,"endTime":392.19,"body":"often, governance, which is sort"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":392.19,"endTime":395.04,"body":"of a slightly different one of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":392.19,"endTime":395.04,"body":"how the company, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":396.21,"endTime":399.3,"body":"manages the interests of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":396.21,"endTime":399.3,"body":"shareholders and serves their"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":399.3,"endTime":402.54,"body":"needs. Those are our top tech"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":399.3,"endTime":402.54,"body":"companies, banks. And so in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":402.54,"endTime":405.06,"body":"general, they look at these"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":402.54,"endTime":405.06,"body":"scores, they vary across"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":405.3,"endTime":407.88,"body":"companies based on their"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":405.3,"endTime":407.88,"body":"geography, their industry. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":407.88,"endTime":412.47,"body":"those are meant to sort of be a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":407.88,"endTime":412.47,"body":"measure of the company's, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":412.47,"endTime":414.81,"body":"know, footprints on the world,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":412.47,"endTime":414.81,"body":"and whether it's good or bad."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":414.81,"endTime":417.3,"body":"And the idea being that like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":414.81,"endTime":417.3,"body":"using those ratings, you can"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":417.66,"endTime":421.74,"body":"tilt capital allocation more"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":417.66,"endTime":421.74,"body":"towards the good companies. Does"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":421.74,"endTime":422.16,"body":"it work?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":423.6,"endTime":427.41,"body":"The way it's set up today? No."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":423.6,"endTime":427.41,"body":"In fact, I would argue that it's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":427.41,"endTime":430.56,"body":"actually negative for society,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":427.41,"endTime":430.56,"body":"because not only does it not"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":430.56,"endTime":434.67,"body":"work, but it creates a giant"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":430.56,"endTime":434.67,"body":"societal placebo, that, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":434.67,"endTime":437.46,"body":"know, that lulls us into"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":434.67,"endTime":437.46,"body":"believing that something is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":437.46,"endTime":442.83,"body":"getting done, whereas in fact,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":437.46,"endTime":442.83,"body":"nothing is getting done. I am, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":442.83,"endTime":446.49,"body":"am sort of a bit of taking a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":442.83,"endTime":446.49,"body":"contrarian view and went public"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":446.49,"endTime":450.33,"body":"a few months ago saying that, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":446.49,"endTime":450.33,"body":"think that this is not only not"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":450.33,"endTime":453.54,"body":"helpful, but actually actively"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":450.33,"endTime":453.54,"body":"dangerous. There's a number of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":453.54,"endTime":456.63,"body":"voices who have started saying"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":453.54,"endTime":456.63,"body":"that, I suspect that the prior"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":456.63,"endTime":460.56,"body":"guests on on your podcast who I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":456.63,"endTime":460.56,"body":"didn't hear, were probably on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":460.56,"endTime":463.26,"body":"the other side of the aisle for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":460.56,"endTime":463.26,"body":"me that it's where I used to be."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":463.95,"endTime":466.62,"body":"And I'll tell you, I honestly"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":463.95,"endTime":466.62,"body":"drank the Kool Aid, spent a few"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":466.62,"endTime":470.22,"body":"years doing it, but I had, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":466.62,"endTime":470.22,"body":"happen to have a vantage point"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":470.22,"endTime":474.54,"body":"that very few people have. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":470.22,"endTime":474.54,"body":"former trained investor have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":474.6,"endTime":477.78,"body":"worked across asset classes,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":474.6,"endTime":477.78,"body":"geographies, for years, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":477.78,"endTime":481.41,"body":"know, both invested in money and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":477.78,"endTime":481.41,"body":"built in strategies and hired"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":481.41,"endTime":485.79,"body":"people to invest money. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":481.41,"endTime":485.79,"body":"having the vantage point of the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":485.79,"endTime":489.09,"body":"world's largest asset manager,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":485.79,"endTime":489.09,"body":"BlackRock, which has somewhere"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":489.09,"endTime":492.15,"body":"in the range of $9 trillion"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":489.09,"endTime":492.15,"body":"largest asset manager in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":492.15,"endTime":496.47,"body":"history, I had an inside look"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":492.15,"endTime":496.47,"body":"inside the machine and started"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":496.47,"endTime":500.01,"body":"to realize that, unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":496.47,"endTime":500.01,"body":"you know, there's a lot of good"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":500.01,"endTime":503.76,"body":"intentions, there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":500.01,"endTime":503.76,"body":"good tools that are being built."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":504.18,"endTime":507.87,"body":"But the way they're being"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":504.18,"endTime":507.87,"body":"implemented today doesn't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":507.9,"endTime":511.59,"body":"create, for the most part, any"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":507.9,"endTime":511.59,"body":"social impact whatsoever. In"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":511.59,"endTime":514.89,"body":"fact, generally speaking, the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":511.59,"endTime":514.89,"body":"way it works is that most of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":514.89,"endTime":519.39,"body":"what is being done are a set of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":514.89,"endTime":519.39,"body":"non binding sort of commitments"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":519.39,"endTime":522.39,"body":"to consider different things"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":519.39,"endTime":522.39,"body":"that are actually ever"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":522.39,"endTime":525.36,"body":"implemented, and often can't be"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":522.39,"endTime":525.36,"body":"because they have legal"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":525.36,"endTime":527.82,"body":"obligations that prevent them"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":525.36,"endTime":527.82,"body":"from thinking about anything"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":527.82,"endTime":530.25,"body":"other than, you know, return,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":527.82,"endTime":530.25,"body":"right. I mean, that's legally,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":530.25,"endTime":532.26,"body":"they're legally obligated,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":530.25,"endTime":532.26,"body":"financially incentivized to only"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":532.26,"endTime":537.12,"body":"focus on profit, or what I call"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":532.26,"endTime":537.12,"body":"dollar value, not social values."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":537.45,"endTime":541.2,"body":"And in other cases, there are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":537.45,"endTime":541.2,"body":"products that purport to create"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":541.2,"endTime":544.92,"body":"some social or environmental"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":541.2,"endTime":544.92,"body":"impact. And they're marketed as"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":544.92,"endTime":548.7,"body":"such, they have higher fees."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":544.92,"endTime":548.7,"body":"They're attractive to people in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":548.7,"endTime":551.22,"body":"particular millennials and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":548.7,"endTime":551.22,"body":"younger people are folks like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":551.22,"endTime":554.37,"body":"you and I, and probably most of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":551.22,"endTime":554.37,"body":"your listeners who are really,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":554.37,"endTime":557.49,"body":"you know, believe that we need"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":554.37,"endTime":557.49,"body":"to act quickly on climate. But"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":557.49,"endTime":559.89,"body":"the challenge is that the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":557.49,"endTime":559.89,"body":"mechanics of how those funds"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":559.92,"endTime":563.85,"body":"actually work, if you get into"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":559.92,"endTime":563.85,"body":"the financial details, which I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":563.85,"endTime":566.67,"body":"won't get into too much of them"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":563.85,"endTime":566.67,"body":"now. But I'll just generally say"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":566.67,"endTime":569.88,"body":"that what they do is they move"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":566.67,"endTime":569.88,"body":"money around, and they move"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":569.88,"endTime":572.85,"body":"stocks and other things that are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":569.88,"endTime":572.85,"body":"that already exists around in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":572.85,"endTime":577.05,"body":"different ways. So that people"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":572.85,"endTime":577.05,"body":"who care more by virtue can, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":577.05,"endTime":580.59,"body":"know, can be connected a bit"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":577.05,"endTime":580.59,"body":"more to, you know, those sorts"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":580.59,"endTime":584.4,"body":"of things. But none of it"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":580.59,"endTime":584.4,"body":"creates any social impact that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":584.4,"endTime":586.56,"body":"would not have otherwise"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":584.4,"endTime":586.56,"body":"happened, right? There's no"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":586.59,"endTime":589.71,"body":"there's a thing in the impact"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":586.59,"endTime":589.71,"body":"space, an idea around or even"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":589.71,"endTime":592.65,"body":"the classes around"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":589.71,"endTime":592.65,"body":"conditionality. Right? The idea"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":592.65,"endTime":595.98,"body":"is that if you make an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":592.65,"endTime":595.98,"body":"intervention, there's you should"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":595.98,"endTime":598.86,"body":"be creating some impact that's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":595.98,"endTime":598.86,"body":"additional that you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":598.86,"endTime":601.71,"body":"otherwise would not have had And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":598.86,"endTime":601.71,"body":"the vast majority of those"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":601.71,"endTime":604.5,"body":"products, they effectively just"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":601.71,"endTime":604.5,"body":"move money around from one place"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":604.5,"endTime":608.04,"body":"to another, and the aggregate"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":604.5,"endTime":608.04,"body":"result is the exact same. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":608.04,"endTime":609.99,"body":"that that's worrying to me"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":608.04,"endTime":609.99,"body":"because it doesn't do anything,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":609.99,"endTime":613.5,"body":"but it does. It is being sold as"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":609.99,"endTime":613.5,"body":"if it does. And that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":613.5,"endTime":616.2,"body":"leads people to believe, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":613.5,"endTime":616.2,"body":"know, lulls us into complacency"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":616.2,"endTime":618.54,"body":"because we think, okay, Wall"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":616.2,"endTime":618.54,"body":"Street's got this. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":618.54,"endTime":620.85,"body":"underneath the hood, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":618.54,"endTime":620.85,"body":"business as usual."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":621.48,"endTime":624.42,"body":"Okay, interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":621.48,"endTime":624.42,"body":"I mean, one of the previous"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":624.42,"endTime":627.51,"body":"episodes, as I say, was with a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":624.42,"endTime":627.51,"body":"guy called Shree Callie, and he"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":627.51,"endTime":631.05,"body":"was talking about green bonds."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":627.51,"endTime":631.05,"body":"And, you know, it sounded great."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":631.08,"endTime":636.6,"body":"If you wanted to roll out some"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":631.08,"endTime":636.6,"body":"kind of green project, you could"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":637.56,"endTime":640.8,"body":"create these green bonds and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":637.56,"endTime":640.8,"body":"sell them and that way use that"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":640.83,"endTime":643.68,"body":"to finance whatever green"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":640.83,"endTime":643.68,"body":"project it was that you wanted"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":643.68,"endTime":647.4,"body":"to roll out. But you're saying"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":643.68,"endTime":647.4,"body":"that, you're saying that, if I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":647.4,"endTime":650.49,"body":"understand your argument"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":647.4,"endTime":650.49,"body":"correctly, that, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":650.52,"endTime":653.46,"body":"could have just done it anyway,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":650.52,"endTime":653.46,"body":"without having raised the green"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":653.46,"endTime":656.46,"body":"bonds. And the raising of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":653.46,"endTime":656.46,"body":"green bonds just makes people"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":656.46,"endTime":660.09,"body":"feel good, but doesn't actually"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":656.46,"endTime":660.09,"body":"do anything additive and extra"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":660.09,"endTime":661.68,"body":"that would that I wouldn't have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":660.09,"endTime":661.68,"body":"done anyway."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":662.76,"endTime":664.77,"body":"Generally speaking,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":662.76,"endTime":664.77,"body":"that's right, green bonds don't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":664.8,"endTime":669.48,"body":"really have anything additional."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":664.8,"endTime":669.48,"body":"And that additionality argument,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":669.48,"endTime":674.4,"body":"it really sits across ETFs,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":669.48,"endTime":674.4,"body":"right, ESG, or green ETFs,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":674.7,"endTime":677.82,"body":"mutual funds and green bonds. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":674.7,"endTime":677.82,"body":"the way to think about green"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":677.82,"endTime":682.11,"body":"bonds is that, let's say a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":677.82,"endTime":682.11,"body":"company has needs to finance its"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":682.11,"endTime":685.65,"body":"operations, right. And they need"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":682.11,"endTime":685.65,"body":"to build a set of infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":685.65,"endTime":689.82,"body":"and projects, and so on and so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":685.65,"endTime":689.82,"body":"forth. What they can do is some"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":689.82,"endTime":694.47,"body":"fraction of what they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":689.82,"endTime":694.47,"body":"investing in qualifies as green,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":695.31,"endTime":699.12,"body":"then they what they do is,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":695.31,"endTime":699.12,"body":"instead of just financing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":699.12,"endTime":702.03,"body":"general financing to go build a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":699.12,"endTime":702.03,"body":"bunch of stuff, and then do you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":702.03,"endTime":705.3,"body":"know, 10 different things of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":702.03,"endTime":705.3,"body":"which one is green, they will"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":705.87,"endTime":709.89,"body":"separately fund fund the green"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":705.87,"endTime":709.89,"body":"thing completely on its own. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":709.89,"endTime":711.84,"body":"they say, Okay, well wait a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":709.89,"endTime":711.84,"body":"second, there seems to be an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":711.84,"endTime":714.87,"body":"investor base, which there is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":711.84,"endTime":714.87,"body":"people like you and I, frankly,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":714.87,"endTime":718.35,"body":"who really want to see something"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":714.87,"endTime":718.35,"body":"done about climate change, and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":718.35,"endTime":723.03,"body":"they only want to fund green"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":718.35,"endTime":723.03,"body":"activities. And so what we'll do"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":723.03,"endTime":726.69,"body":"is we'll take specific green"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":723.03,"endTime":726.69,"body":"projects will separate them will"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":726.69,"endTime":729.0,"body":"ring the fence, which is a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":726.69,"endTime":729.0,"body":"financial term to basically"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":729.0,"endTime":733.32,"body":"separate the proceeds. So that,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":729.0,"endTime":733.32,"body":"you know, you and I Tom, we get"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":733.32,"endTime":736.5,"body":"to fund the green project only,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":733.32,"endTime":736.5,"body":"but it doesn't stop the company"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":736.53,"endTime":738.6,"body":"doesn't First of all, there's no"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":736.53,"endTime":738.6,"body":"guarantee the company is doing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":738.6,"endTime":740.82,"body":"anything additional, they went"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":738.6,"endTime":740.82,"body":"to because most companies are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":740.82,"endTime":744.09,"body":"doing something green, right."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":740.82,"endTime":744.09,"body":"And so if they siphon out, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":744.09,"endTime":747.39,"body":"know, the the funding for that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":744.09,"endTime":747.39,"body":"specific project so that people"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":747.39,"endTime":749.67,"body":"like you, and I get to feel good"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":747.39,"endTime":749.67,"body":"about it, it doesn't really tell"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":749.67,"endTime":751.77,"body":"you that they're doing anything"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":749.67,"endTime":751.77,"body":"more than they would would have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":751.77,"endTime":754.77,"body":"otherwise done, ended up to stop"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":751.77,"endTime":754.77,"body":"them, frankly, from going and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":754.77,"endTime":757.56,"body":"you know, you know, using their"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":754.77,"endTime":757.56,"body":"general funding that's not from"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":757.56,"endTime":759.84,"body":"the green bond that you and I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":757.56,"endTime":759.84,"body":"bought, to go and build, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":759.84,"endTime":762.6,"body":"know, coal plants or whatever"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":759.84,"endTime":762.6,"body":"else. So here's the analogy. I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":762.6,"endTime":765.03,"body":"think I'm trying to stay away"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":762.6,"endTime":765.03,"body":"from too much finance jargon."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":765.27,"endTime":770.85,"body":"Imagine I am many years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":765.27,"endTime":770.85,"body":"was a team. And my mom gives me"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":770.85,"endTime":776.67,"body":"a $10 allowance a week. And then"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":770.85,"endTime":776.67,"body":"I also make $30 from a paper"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":776.67,"endTime":779.67,"body":"route. Right. So every you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":776.67,"endTime":779.67,"body":"delivering papers and just doing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":779.67,"endTime":784.56,"body":"our jobs. So every week I have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":779.67,"endTime":784.56,"body":"$40. And my mom then discovers"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":784.56,"endTime":789.12,"body":"that $25 have been spent on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":784.56,"endTime":789.12,"body":"Archie Comics and candy, which I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":789.12,"endTime":791.1,"body":"use as a specific example,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":789.12,"endTime":791.1,"body":"because that's actually what I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":791.1,"endTime":795.15,"body":"spent a lot of money on as a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":791.1,"endTime":795.15,"body":"kid. So she said a lot, I don't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":795.15,"endTime":798.66,"body":"want to fund that I want to, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":795.15,"endTime":798.66,"body":"know, I want my $10 allowance to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":798.66,"endTime":801.81,"body":"be used for good things like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":798.66,"endTime":801.81,"body":"buying books and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":801.81,"endTime":806.1,"body":"things that my, my very strict"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":801.81,"endTime":806.1,"body":"mother would have viewed as"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":806.1,"endTime":810.06,"body":"being productive and good for my"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":806.1,"endTime":810.06,"body":"studies. This is like me"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":810.06,"endTime":814.05,"body":"basically saying, okay, here's a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":810.06,"endTime":814.05,"body":"new deal, Mom, I spent 1012"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":814.05,"endTime":817.98,"body":"bucks on books and other things,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":814.05,"endTime":817.98,"body":"your $10 allowance only goes"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":817.98,"endTime":820.77,"body":"towards, you know, the books and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":817.98,"endTime":820.77,"body":"whatever, then I just use the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":820.77,"endTime":823.35,"body":"money from my paper route or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":820.77,"endTime":823.35,"body":"whatever other cash, I have to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":823.35,"endTime":826.95,"body":"fund all the bad things. You"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":823.35,"endTime":826.95,"body":"know, really, it makes my mom"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":826.95,"endTime":829.83,"body":"feel good because her $10 is,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":826.95,"endTime":829.83,"body":"you know, going towards the good"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":829.83,"endTime":833.28,"body":"stuff. But in reality, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":829.83,"endTime":833.28,"body":"spending exactly the same way as"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":833.28,"endTime":837.39,"body":"I was before. I'm just sort of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":833.28,"endTime":837.39,"body":"attributing the good stuff to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":837.39,"endTime":839.79,"body":"her. So she feels good about it."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":837.39,"endTime":839.79,"body":"But the aggregate results the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":839.79,"endTime":842.01,"body":"same. I'm still buying Archie"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":839.79,"endTime":842.01,"body":"Comics."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":844.049,"endTime":849.119,"body":"And what about the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":844.049,"endTime":849.119,"body":"idea though, that investment"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":849.179,"endTime":855.749,"body":"managers are asset managers are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":849.179,"endTime":855.749,"body":"looking at the ESG reporting of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":855.749,"endTime":860.789,"body":"companies and saying, Okay, this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":855.749,"endTime":860.789,"body":"particular company, good ESG"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":860.789,"endTime":864.269,"body":"reporting good outcomes, they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":860.789,"endTime":864.269,"body":"attractive, I'll throw money"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":864.269,"endTime":868.229,"body":"their way. This other company,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":864.269,"endTime":868.229,"body":"though, either they're not"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":868.259,"endTime":871.049,"body":"reporting on ESG, or their ESG"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":868.259,"endTime":871.049,"body":"reporting makes them look"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":871.049,"endTime":874.229,"body":"terrible. I won't give them any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":871.049,"endTime":874.229,"body":"money because they're really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":874.229,"endTime":877.379,"body":"risky. Or if I give them any"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":874.229,"endTime":877.379,"body":"money, it'll be really expensive"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":877.529,"endTime":882.449,"body":"for them is Is that a thing? Or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":877.529,"endTime":882.449,"body":"am I just being complete? Am I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":882.449,"endTime":886.919,"body":"smoking crack, you know, is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":882.449,"endTime":886.919,"body":"attending that way and if so, is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":886.919,"endTime":887.729,"body":"that not good?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":888.029,"endTime":890.609,"body":"It is good. In"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":888.029,"endTime":890.609,"body":"theory, the challenge is in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":890.609,"endTime":894.239,"body":"practice, it doesn't work. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":890.609,"endTime":894.239,"body":"the reality of why it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":894.239,"endTime":897.179,"body":"work is because investment"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":894.239,"endTime":897.179,"body":"managers are almost always"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":897.179,"endTime":900.929,"body":"constrained legally. by"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":897.179,"endTime":900.929,"body":"something called judiciary duty"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":900.929,"endTime":904.019,"body":"or fiduciary obligation. The"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":900.929,"endTime":904.019,"body":"idea being that, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":904.019,"endTime":907.499,"body":"you and I are investing our own"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":904.019,"endTime":907.499,"body":"money personally, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":907.499,"endTime":910.649,"body":"can decide to invest in green"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":907.499,"endTime":910.649,"body":"bonds, non green bonds, we can"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":910.649,"endTime":913.469,"body":"give it to a nonprofit, right"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":910.649,"endTime":913.469,"body":"and get zero return back, but"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":913.469,"endTime":915.749,"body":"then create social impact, we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":913.469,"endTime":915.749,"body":"can do whatever we want with it."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":916.109,"endTime":919.319,"body":"But most of the money in the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":916.109,"endTime":919.319,"body":"economy is managed on someone"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":919.319,"endTime":923.129,"body":"else's behalf. Right. So if I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":919.319,"endTime":923.129,"body":"invest, it's a pension fund"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":923.129,"endTime":926.819,"body":"manager that is running, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":923.129,"endTime":926.819,"body":"know, a national or state"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":926.819,"endTime":930.029,"body":"pension fund. They're doing it"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":926.819,"endTime":930.029,"body":"on behalf of the pensioners,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":930.059,"endTime":932.579,"body":"right, they give that money then"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":930.059,"endTime":932.579,"body":"to an asset manager like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":932.579,"endTime":935.999,"body":"BlackRock that will invest it."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":932.579,"endTime":935.999,"body":"And all along that chain,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":936.089,"endTime":939.299,"body":"everyone has investing capital"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":936.089,"endTime":939.299,"body":"that doesn't necessarily belong"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":939.299,"endTime":941.579,"body":"to them, it's not their own. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":939.299,"endTime":941.579,"body":"that means that they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":941.579,"endTime":945.449,"body":"constrained legally to only"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":941.579,"endTime":945.449,"body":"focus on returns, right. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":945.539,"endTime":947.729,"body":"that's the sort of point where"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":945.539,"endTime":947.729,"body":"they have to focus on dollar"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":947.729,"endTime":951.869,"body":"value, and not social values."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":947.729,"endTime":951.869,"body":"Don't get me wrong, they can"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":951.869,"endTime":954.869,"body":"look at social values, in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":951.869,"endTime":954.869,"body":"addition to that, but they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":954.869,"endTime":958.769,"body":"not allowed to give up return,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":954.869,"endTime":958.769,"body":"you know, to give up your my"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":958.769,"endTime":963.179,"body":"money in the pursuit of a social"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":958.769,"endTime":963.179,"body":"objective. And, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":963.179,"endTime":966.929,"body":"reality is that it's because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":963.179,"endTime":966.929,"body":"value is objective, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":966.929,"endTime":971.009,"body":"easily measurable, it's $1, or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":966.929,"endTime":971.009,"body":"euro or pound terms, but social"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":971.009,"endTime":973.649,"body":"values vary from person to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":971.009,"endTime":973.649,"body":"person, right there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":973.709,"endTime":976.649,"body":"you and I agree that climate"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":973.709,"endTime":976.649,"body":"changes is critically important."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":977.399,"endTime":980.489,"body":"But there may be other people"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":977.399,"endTime":980.489,"body":"for whom that is their second or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":980.489,"endTime":983.939,"body":"third priority. I'm not not I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":980.489,"endTime":983.939,"body":"don't mean climate deniers, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":983.939,"endTime":986.279,"body":"mean, to people who say, well,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":983.939,"endTime":986.279,"body":"human rights are more important"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":986.279,"endTime":989.549,"body":"to me right now, or this or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":986.279,"endTime":989.549,"body":"that. And so weighing values"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":989.549,"endTime":992.579,"body":"becomes very difficult. And so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":989.549,"endTime":992.579,"body":"they're generally constrained by"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":992.579,"endTime":995.369,"body":"legal obligations. And that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":992.579,"endTime":995.369,"body":"becomes a very big problem."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":995.369,"endTime":998.999,"body":"Because today in our economies,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":995.369,"endTime":998.999,"body":"there are a lot of business"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":998.999,"endTime":1002.449,"body":"activities that are frankly,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":998.999,"endTime":1002.449,"body":"irresponsible, right, they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1002.449,"endTime":1006.829,"body":"bad for the world, but they make"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1002.449,"endTime":1006.829,"body":"profit. And frankly, fossil"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1006.829,"endTime":1009.619,"body":"fuels are one of the greatest"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1006.829,"endTime":1009.619,"body":"areas and until we introduce a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1009.619,"endTime":1014.059,"body":"price on carbon, for a carbon"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1009.619,"endTime":1014.059,"body":"tax, they don't pay the costs of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1014.059,"endTime":1017.299,"body":"the pollution, that they you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1014.059,"endTime":1017.299,"body":"know, they cause and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1017.299,"endTime":1019.639,"body":"there's there's a cost for that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1017.299,"endTime":1019.639,"body":"they don't pay it, but of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1019.639,"endTime":1023.509,"body":"course, society pays for it over"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1019.639,"endTime":1023.509,"body":"the long term. And so unless you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1023.509,"endTime":1027.169,"body":"correct that, what happens is a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1023.509,"endTime":1027.169,"body":"lot of, you know, the market"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1027.169,"endTime":1030.109,"body":"failures like that exists. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1027.169,"endTime":1030.109,"body":"there's a lot of profitable"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1030.109,"endTime":1034.369,"body":"activities that are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1030.109,"endTime":1034.369,"body":"just bad for the world. And the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1034.399,"endTime":1037.549,"body":"obligations of all the managers,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1034.399,"endTime":1037.549,"body":"this was a challenge, I found"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1037.849,"endTime":1040.159,"body":"the disconnect between the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1037.849,"endTime":1040.159,"body":"marketing of what was being"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1040.159,"endTime":1043.669,"body":"said, in the space. And then"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1040.159,"endTime":1043.669,"body":"what I saw looking, having the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1043.669,"endTime":1047.089,"body":"vantage point over the largest,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1043.669,"endTime":1047.089,"body":"you know, the largest pool of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1047.089,"endTime":1051.199,"body":"assets available in capitalism"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1047.089,"endTime":1051.199,"body":"today, what I saw was that, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1051.199,"endTime":1055.549,"body":"know, frankly, they were both"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1051.199,"endTime":1055.549,"body":"the actual portfolio managers"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1055.759,"endTime":1058.699,"body":"who make all the decisions are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1055.759,"endTime":1058.699,"body":"both legally obligated, and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1058.699,"endTime":1061.249,"body":"they're financially incentivized"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1058.699,"endTime":1061.249,"body":"through their annual pay and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1061.249,"endTime":1065.509,"body":"bonuses, to only focus on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1061.249,"endTime":1065.509,"body":"profits and returns. And that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1065.509,"endTime":1068.029,"body":"includes financing things that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1065.509,"endTime":1068.029,"body":"are bad for the world, and that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1068.029,"endTime":1071.059,"body":"they'll honestly tell you this,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1068.029,"endTime":1071.059,"body":"I look, I know this is bad. But,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1071.329,"endTime":1074.449,"body":"you know, I have to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1071.329,"endTime":1074.449,"body":"it's kind of like a player on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1074.449,"endTime":1077.329,"body":"the field, like a sports player"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1074.449,"endTime":1077.329,"body":"saying, I know, this is like,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1077.359,"endTime":1080.599,"body":"I'm a soccer fan. Imagine some"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1077.359,"endTime":1080.599,"body":"of your listeners won't be"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1080.599,"endTime":1083.749,"body":"imagining a soccer player who"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1080.599,"endTime":1083.749,"body":"dives in the penalty box in the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1083.749,"endTime":1088.309,"body":"92nd minute habitually, to try"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1083.749,"endTime":1088.309,"body":"to win games, con con referees"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1088.309,"endTime":1092.389,"body":"and win games, you know, prior"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1088.309,"endTime":1092.389,"body":"to var, you know, video assisted"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1092.419,"endTime":1095.749,"body":"sort of approaches. There's a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1092.419,"endTime":1095.749,"body":"lot of them who would do it. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1095.749,"endTime":1098.659,"body":"they do it intentionally because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1095.749,"endTime":1098.659,"body":"it wins games. And people say"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1098.659,"endTime":1101.749,"body":"why are you doing it? You know?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1098.659,"endTime":1101.749,"body":"And it's and it's a Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1101.749,"endTime":1104.599,"body":"know, it's unsportsmanlike. But"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1101.749,"endTime":1104.599,"body":"I'm on the field to win games."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1104.599,"endTime":1107.119,"body":"Like that's our goal. It's the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1104.599,"endTime":1107.119,"body":"same thing with portfolio"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1107.119,"endTime":1109.939,"body":"managers, right? They're they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1107.119,"endTime":1109.939,"body":"trying to score points and get"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1109.939,"endTime":1112.489,"body":"return. And if there's, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1109.939,"endTime":1112.489,"body":"know, there's things that they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1112.489,"endTime":1114.739,"body":"do that are considered dirty"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1112.489,"endTime":1114.739,"body":"player bad for the world,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1114.769,"endTime":1117.169,"body":"they're unfortunately still"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1114.769,"endTime":1117.169,"body":"obligated to do them unless"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1117.169,"endTime":1119.509,"body":"those those market failures are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1117.169,"endTime":1119.509,"body":"fixed."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1123.56,"body":"Okay, and what is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1123.56,"body":"the financial equivalent of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.59,"endTime":1127.4,"body":"video ref are to put another"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1123.59,"endTime":1127.4,"body":"way? How do we fix that?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1156.16,"endTime":1159.8500000000001,"body":"The equivalent of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1156.16,"endTime":1159.8500000000001,"body":"the ref is the regulator, right"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1159.8500000000001,"endTime":1162.49,"body":"is really the government, right?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1159.8500000000001,"endTime":1162.49,"body":"The government, the government"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1162.49,"endTime":1169.18,"body":"has special powers to be able to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1162.49,"endTime":1169.18,"body":"address systemic crises in ways"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1169.18,"endTime":1172.54,"body":"that move the economy faster"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1169.18,"endTime":1172.54,"body":"than it would go if we just"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1172.54,"endTime":1175.1200000000001,"body":"waited and left everything to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1172.54,"endTime":1175.1200000000001,"body":"the quote unquote, free market,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1175.54,"endTime":1178.0900000000001,"body":"which is an odd term because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1175.54,"endTime":1178.0900000000001,"body":"there is no such thing as a free"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1178.0900000000001,"endTime":1181.48,"body":"market. Every every market has"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1178.0900000000001,"endTime":1181.48,"body":"rules, right? There's no rules,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1181.48,"endTime":1185.2,"body":"no market, there's rules around"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1181.48,"endTime":1185.2,"body":"patent protection around, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1185.2,"endTime":1188.98,"body":"know, property rights, around"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1185.2,"endTime":1188.98,"body":"regulation, on pollution, and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1188.98,"endTime":1191.77,"body":"this and the other, and they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1188.98,"endTime":1191.77,"body":"all the constraints within"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1191.77,"endTime":1194.29,"body":"business activity, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1191.77,"endTime":1194.29,"body":"within which business activity"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1194.29,"endTime":1198.6100000000001,"body":"must happen. In theory, the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1194.29,"endTime":1198.6100000000001,"body":"regulators are meant to prevent"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1199.0900000000001,"endTime":1203.02,"body":"damaging things to society. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1199.0900000000001,"endTime":1203.02,"body":"you know, reducing emissions"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1203.02,"endTime":1206.2,"body":"preventing slave labor, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1203.02,"endTime":1206.2,"body":"know, that's their job is to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1206.2,"endTime":1209.14,"body":"prevent fraud and other things."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1206.2,"endTime":1209.14,"body":"It's the same way that as a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1209.14,"endTime":1212.41,"body":"referee in the game, basically"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1209.14,"endTime":1212.41,"body":"is, you know, whether they use"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1212.41,"endTime":1217.06,"body":"VR or not, they're Their job is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1212.41,"endTime":1217.06,"body":"to make sure that the game was"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1217.06,"endTime":1220.15,"body":"played cleanly. And I think one"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1217.06,"endTime":1220.15,"body":"of the biggest challenges we're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1220.15,"endTime":1224.0800000000002,"body":"finding is that since the 1980s,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1220.15,"endTime":1224.0800000000002,"body":"there has been a series of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1224.0800000000002,"endTime":1227.44,"body":"economic narratives that people"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1224.0800000000002,"endTime":1227.44,"body":"often associate with sort of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1227.44,"endTime":1233.8300000000002,"body":"Thatcher Reagan sort of era. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1227.44,"endTime":1233.8300000000002,"body":"these ideas that are sometimes"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1233.8300000000002,"endTime":1237.0700000000002,"body":"called neoliberalism. But they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1233.8300000000002,"endTime":1237.0700000000002,"body":"generally the idea behind them"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1237.0700000000002,"endTime":1239.77,"body":"is that free markets can solve"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1237.0700000000002,"endTime":1239.77,"body":"all problems and don't need"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1239.89,"endTime":1244.48,"body":"regulation. And that those set"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1239.89,"endTime":1244.48,"body":"of ideas led to the financial"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1244.48,"endTime":1247.45,"body":"crisis, right, there was a large"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1244.48,"endTime":1247.45,"body":"repeal of a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1247.45,"endTime":1251.77,"body":"Depression era, regulation in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1247.45,"endTime":1251.77,"body":"1998, something called the Glass"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1251.77,"endTime":1254.1100000000001,"body":"Steagall act, 10 years later, it"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1251.77,"endTime":1254.1100000000001,"body":"led to the financial crisis,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1254.5,"endTime":1257.74,"body":"those problems has still not"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1254.5,"endTime":1257.74,"body":"been fixed by the regulation"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1257.74,"endTime":1260.68,"body":"that came after it, which was"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1257.74,"endTime":1260.68,"body":"heavily diluted. And now we're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1260.68,"endTime":1264.94,"body":"finding with with climate change"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1260.68,"endTime":1264.94,"body":"that, again, unless the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1264.94,"endTime":1268.0,"body":"regulators step in, they put a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1264.94,"endTime":1268.0,"body":"price on carbon, they start"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1268.15,"endTime":1272.2,"body":"implementing vehicle emissions"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1268.15,"endTime":1272.2,"body":"limits, you know, building"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1272.23,"endTime":1274.93,"body":"efficient energy efficient"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1272.23,"endTime":1274.93,"body":"standards, all of these sort of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1274.93,"endTime":1278.68,"body":"rules within which society must"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1274.93,"endTime":1278.68,"body":"operate, you tend to find that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1278.68,"endTime":1282.13,"body":"the movement towards that is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1278.68,"endTime":1282.13,"body":"much lower than we need. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1282.13,"endTime":1285.76,"body":"again, it's fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1282.13,"endTime":1285.76,"body":"because, you know, we've, as a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1285.76,"endTime":1290.44,"body":"species spent $5 trillion around"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1285.76,"endTime":1290.44,"body":"sort of a global energy"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1290.44,"endTime":1293.38,"body":"industry, Morgan Stanley"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1290.44,"endTime":1293.38,"body":"estimates it will cost 50"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1293.38,"endTime":1297.88,"body":"trillion to decarbonize the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1293.38,"endTime":1297.88,"body":"world economy. It is difficult,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1297.88,"endTime":1301.78,"body":"but it's necessary. And there's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1297.88,"endTime":1301.78,"body":"a fantasy that's been pushed out"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1301.78,"endTime":1305.53,"body":"there, I think heavily by"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1301.78,"endTime":1305.53,"body":"business and financial companies"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1305.53,"endTime":1308.02,"body":"that says no, no, this is an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1305.53,"endTime":1308.02,"body":"opportunity. This is a great"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1308.02,"endTime":1311.41,"body":"thing. We can all make money and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1308.02,"endTime":1311.41,"body":"be green at the same time. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1311.44,"endTime":1314.71,"body":"in some cases, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1311.44,"endTime":1314.71,"body":"In the majority it doesn't."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1315.0700000000002,"endTime":1318.01,"body":"Because frankly, climate change"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1315.0700000000002,"endTime":1318.01,"body":"is not an opportunity. It's not"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1318.01,"endTime":1320.8300000000002,"body":"a blessing for humanity that we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1318.01,"endTime":1320.8300000000002,"body":"would have, you know, wanted."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1321.1000000000001,"endTime":1323.77,"body":"It's unfortunately a vexing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1321.1000000000001,"endTime":1323.77,"body":"problem. But it's also one that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1323.77,"endTime":1326.17,"body":"we need to solve. And that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1323.77,"endTime":1326.17,"body":"requires that's a decisive"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1326.17,"endTime":1330.52,"body":"government action of the kind we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1326.17,"endTime":1330.52,"body":"haven't seen yet. And that would"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1330.52,"endTime":1333.8500000000001,"body":"cause the financial markets to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1330.52,"endTime":1333.8500000000001,"body":"react and reallocate capital"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1333.8500000000001,"endTime":1337.03,"body":"correctly. But you know, without"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1333.8500000000001,"endTime":1337.03,"body":"that, what you tend to get is a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1337.03,"endTime":1341.29,"body":"lot of wishful thinking, or what"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1337.03,"endTime":1341.29,"body":"one, one, there's a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1341.29,"endTime":1344.02,"body":"former finance people have come"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1341.29,"endTime":1344.02,"body":"out against sustainable"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1344.02,"endTime":1347.41,"body":"investing, and one of them"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1344.02,"endTime":1347.41,"body":"called it green wishing. Right,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1347.41,"endTime":1350.1100000000001,"body":"it's helpful, but it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1347.41,"endTime":1350.1100000000001,"body":"really work. And it's somewhere"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1350.1100000000001,"endTime":1352.81,"body":"between greenwashing and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1350.1100000000001,"endTime":1352.81,"body":"greenwashing. But unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1353.3200000000002,"endTime":1355.39,"body":"it hasn't really produced much"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1353.3200000000002,"endTime":1355.39,"body":"in the last decade."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1355.809,"endTime":1362.8890000000001,"body":"Okay. I am a genie"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1355.809,"endTime":1362.8890000000001,"body":"with a magic wand. And I can"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1364.089,"endTime":1369.1290000000001,"body":"turn you into a world financial"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1364.089,"endTime":1369.1290000000001,"body":"regulator. What are your first"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1369.1290000000001,"endTime":1370.749,"body":"three steps to fix all this?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1372.279,"endTime":1375.549,"body":"I would say I'll"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1372.279,"endTime":1375.549,"body":"give you four steps if that's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1375.549,"endTime":1378.999,"body":"okay, great. And I would"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1375.549,"endTime":1378.999,"body":"actually, I'll borrow from the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1379.029,"endTime":1383.979,"body":"playbook we all know, well,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1379.029,"endTime":1383.979,"body":"COVID-19. So let's look at about"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1383.979,"endTime":1388.839,"body":"just roughly just over a year"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1383.979,"endTime":1388.839,"body":"ago, now. The pandemic sort of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1388.8690000000001,"endTime":1392.229,"body":"really started to wash up on the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1388.8690000000001,"endTime":1392.229,"body":"shores of, you know, Western"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1392.3490000000002,"endTime":1397.3890000000001,"body":"democracies. And what was the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1392.3490000000002,"endTime":1397.3890000000001,"body":"problem we needed? You know, we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1397.3890000000001,"endTime":1401.3490000000002,"body":"saw it was a systemic crisis."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1397.3890000000001,"endTime":1401.3490000000002,"body":"And scientists told us that we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1401.3490000000002,"endTime":1405.0990000000002,"body":"needed to flatten the curve very"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1401.3490000000002,"endTime":1405.0990000000002,"body":"quickly, right, we need to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1405.0990000000002,"endTime":1411.429,"body":"flatten the curve of infections."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1405.0990000000002,"endTime":1411.429,"body":"We knew very instantly that we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1411.429,"endTime":1413.6490000000001,"body":"couldn't just leave it to the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1411.429,"endTime":1413.6490000000001,"body":"free market, right? Like imagine"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1413.6490000000001,"endTime":1417.429,"body":"you just leave everything open"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1413.6490000000001,"endTime":1417.429,"body":"and business as usual. Infection"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1417.429,"endTime":1421.539,"body":"levels would skyrocket, and ice"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1417.429,"endTime":1421.539,"body":"used to be overwhelmed. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1421.539,"endTime":1425.409,"body":"governments around the world"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1421.539,"endTime":1425.409,"body":"quickly reacted had to bend down"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1425.409,"endTime":1428.439,"body":"the curve through force, right."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1425.409,"endTime":1428.439,"body":"And they use a special powers"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1428.439,"endTime":1431.3490000000002,"body":"that only governments have. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1428.439,"endTime":1431.3490000000002,"body":"only they have, frankly,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1431.3490000000002,"endTime":1435.009,"body":"democratic legitimacy to use."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1431.3490000000002,"endTime":1435.009,"body":"And they did things like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1435.009,"endTime":1440.259,"body":"restricting travel, they closed"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1435.009,"endTime":1440.259,"body":"high risk venues, places, like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1440.259,"endTime":1444.339,"body":"bars, even unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1440.259,"endTime":1444.339,"body":"schools, they made masks"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1444.3690000000001,"endTime":1449.169,"body":"mandatory indoors, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1444.3690000000001,"endTime":1449.169,"body":"these are all were pushed down"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1449.169,"endTime":1452.049,"body":"by government, and they had"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1449.169,"endTime":1452.049,"body":"consequences for failing, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1452.049,"endTime":1455.019,"body":"know, they enforced them. If you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1452.049,"endTime":1455.019,"body":"broke them, there were fines and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1455.019,"endTime":1459.1290000000001,"body":"the consequences. Those are what"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1455.019,"endTime":1459.1290000000001,"body":"helped us flatten the curve. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1459.1290000000001,"endTime":1461.829,"body":"then while government was"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1459.1290000000001,"endTime":1461.829,"body":"holding the curve down with one"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1461.829,"endTime":1465.039,"body":"hand, with the other hand, they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1461.829,"endTime":1465.039,"body":"quickly started finding us in as"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1465.1290000000001,"endTime":1470.559,"body":"a solution, right, and escaped."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1465.1290000000001,"endTime":1470.559,"body":"And that was this aggressive"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1470.559,"endTime":1474.909,"body":"attempt to find vaccines. And so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1470.559,"endTime":1474.909,"body":"in the US, it was done under the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1474.909,"endTime":1478.239,"body":"auspices of operation warp"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1474.909,"endTime":1478.239,"body":"speed, right. And in that case,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1478.239,"endTime":1480.789,"body":"again, the pharma companies are"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1478.239,"endTime":1480.789,"body":"the ones obviously doing all the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1480.789,"endTime":1483.999,"body":"work. That's not surprising, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1480.789,"endTime":1483.999,"body":"know, most of the capital and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1483.999,"endTime":1486.999,"body":"the jobs in our economies are in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1483.999,"endTime":1486.999,"body":"the private sector. But the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1486.999,"endTime":1490.989,"body":"private sector needs a push on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1486.999,"endTime":1490.989,"body":"things like that. And so the US"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1490.989,"endTime":1493.8690000000001,"body":"government ordered nearly a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1490.989,"endTime":1493.8690000000001,"body":"billion vaccine doses, even"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1493.8690000000001,"endTime":1496.749,"body":"though that's obviously far more"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1493.8690000000001,"endTime":1496.749,"body":"people than they have some"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1496.749,"endTime":1500.739,"body":"countries, it's been far higher."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1496.749,"endTime":1500.739,"body":"The government also funded"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1500.769,"endTime":1505.299,"body":"individual companies directly."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1500.769,"endTime":1505.299,"body":"And the idea was that in normal"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1505.299,"endTime":1507.759,"body":"circumstances, one or two"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1505.299,"endTime":1507.759,"body":"companies may look for a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1507.759,"endTime":1510.3990000000001,"body":"vaccine. But if you're, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1507.759,"endTime":1510.3990000000001,"body":"know, the third or fourth or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1510.3990000000001,"endTime":1512.979,"body":"fifth, you may give up because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1510.3990000000001,"endTime":1512.979,"body":"you think, Well, I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1512.979,"endTime":1515.709,"body":"to get there in time. And I'm,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1512.979,"endTime":1515.709,"body":"you know, I'm not going to get"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1515.709,"endTime":1517.779,"body":"any the business. And so you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1515.709,"endTime":1517.779,"body":"don't want to spend all the r\u0026d"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1517.779,"endTime":1521.769,"body":"upfront, but by the government,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1517.779,"endTime":1521.769,"body":"effectively pushing people you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1521.769,"endTime":1524.1090000000002,"body":"know, and funding them directly,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1521.769,"endTime":1524.1090000000002,"body":"making sure that everyone had"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1524.1090000000002,"endTime":1527.049,"body":"pre orders. They all had an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1524.1090000000002,"endTime":1527.049,"body":"incentive and so you had five or"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1527.049,"endTime":1530.469,"body":"10 holes. As all rushing as fast"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1527.049,"endTime":1530.469,"body":"as they can, with emergency"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1530.469,"endTime":1533.469,"body":"approvals that government led,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1530.469,"endTime":1533.469,"body":"and so on, you know, to get us a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1533.469,"endTime":1535.659,"body":"vaccine. And now that's how"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1533.469,"endTime":1535.659,"body":"we're sort of starting to emerge"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1535.659,"endTime":1539.559,"body":"from the crisis. Now, let's look"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1535.659,"endTime":1539.559,"body":"at climate change. Here we have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1539.559,"endTime":1542.8890000000001,"body":"a systemic crisis. Science is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1539.559,"endTime":1542.8890000000001,"body":"telling us we need to flatten"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1542.8890000000001,"endTime":1545.439,"body":"the curve, right? It's the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1542.8890000000001,"endTime":1545.439,"body":"greenhouse gas emissions curve."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1546.3690000000001,"endTime":1550.539,"body":"And there are no shortage of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1546.3690000000001,"endTime":1550.539,"body":"policy ideas to flatten the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1550.539,"endTime":1553.809,"body":"curve, right. So we could put a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1550.539,"endTime":1553.809,"body":"price on carbon. Again, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1553.809,"endTime":1556.779,"body":"mentioned vehicle emissions"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1553.809,"endTime":1556.779,"body":"limits, energy standards for the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1556.809,"endTime":1560.919,"body":"for, you know, the energy"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1556.809,"endTime":1560.919,"body":"sector, for buildings and for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1560.919,"endTime":1563.559,"body":"all other kinds of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1560.919,"endTime":1563.559,"body":"infrastructure. And all of those"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1563.589,"endTime":1566.8890000000001,"body":"are policy led from the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1563.589,"endTime":1566.8890000000001,"body":"government down where it's the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1566.8890000000001,"endTime":1569.3490000000002,"body":"regulator's playing the rule,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1566.8890000000001,"endTime":1569.3490000000002,"body":"you know, the role of referees"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1569.3490000000002,"endTime":1572.769,"body":"and a sport and saying, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1569.3490000000002,"endTime":1572.769,"body":"this is no longer allowed, this"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1572.769,"endTime":1575.6190000000001,"body":"is encouraged, you know, so we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1572.769,"endTime":1575.6190000000001,"body":"get the outcomes that we need to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1575.6190000000001,"endTime":1579.3990000000001,"body":"serve the public interest. Those"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1575.6190000000001,"endTime":1579.3990000000001,"body":"can all be done to flatten the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1579.3990000000001,"endTime":1581.6490000000001,"body":"curve of greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1579.3990000000001,"endTime":1581.6490000000001,"body":"emissions. And then with the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1581.6490000000001,"endTime":1585.339,"body":"other hand, again, government"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1581.6490000000001,"endTime":1585.339,"body":"can aggressively push the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1585.339,"endTime":1590.679,"body":"private sector through taxes and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1585.339,"endTime":1590.679,"body":"incentives, to do more to create"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1590.679,"endTime":1593.259,"body":"the kinds of new technologies we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1590.679,"endTime":1593.259,"body":"need in a hurry, right carbon"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1593.259,"endTime":1595.8990000000001,"body":"capture and storage, other"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1593.259,"endTime":1595.8990000000001,"body":"things around Battery, Battery,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1595.8990000000001,"endTime":1599.049,"body":"renewable power, and so on. All"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1595.8990000000001,"endTime":1599.049,"body":"of those things are possible."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1599.3490000000002,"endTime":1602.469,"body":"But they happened with COVID."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1599.3490000000002,"endTime":1602.469,"body":"And they didn't have they have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1602.469,"endTime":1605.559,"body":"not yet happened with climate"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1602.469,"endTime":1605.559,"body":"change. And I would say the most"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1605.589,"endTime":1608.769,"body":"fundamental concern that we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1605.589,"endTime":1608.769,"body":"should have is that the reason"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1608.769,"endTime":1611.979,"body":"it didn't happen is because of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1608.769,"endTime":1611.979,"body":"the incubation period COVID-19"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1611.979,"endTime":1614.769,"body":"takes a few weeks, climate"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1611.979,"endTime":1614.769,"body":"change takes a few decades."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1615.279,"endTime":1617.8590000000002,"body":"Today, capitalism is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1615.279,"endTime":1617.8590000000002,"body":"extraordinarily short, term"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1617.8590000000002,"endTime":1621.819,"body":"oriented, bright, co tenure is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1617.8590000000002,"endTime":1621.819,"body":"the shortest has been in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1621.819,"endTime":1625.269,"body":"decades, it's five years, co"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1621.819,"endTime":1625.269,"body":"pays, the highest it's been a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1625.269,"endTime":1629.169,"body":"decade is 320 times the average"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1625.269,"endTime":1629.169,"body":"industry worker, when you have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1629.169,"endTime":1631.959,"body":"such a short term system where"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1629.169,"endTime":1631.959,"body":"the incentives of the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1631.959,"endTime":1635.6490000000001,"body":"businesses, the CEOs, the the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1631.959,"endTime":1635.6490000000001,"body":"finance seers, who back them at"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1635.6490000000001,"endTime":1638.8890000000001,"body":"places like BlackRock are all"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1635.6490000000001,"endTime":1638.8890000000001,"body":"very short term oriented. They"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1638.8890000000001,"endTime":1641.3490000000002,"body":"don't get paid to think about"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1638.8890000000001,"endTime":1641.3490000000002,"body":"the long term. And so you tend"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1641.3490000000002,"endTime":1644.229,"body":"to see society reacts very"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1641.3490000000002,"endTime":1644.229,"body":"quickly to the fast moving"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1644.229,"endTime":1647.1390000000001,"body":"crises. But, you know, we just"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1644.229,"endTime":1647.1390000000001,"body":"kick the can down the road than"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1647.1390000000001,"endTime":1649.8990000000001,"body":"long term ones. And I think, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1647.1390000000001,"endTime":1649.8990000000001,"body":"know, I think you'd agree that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1649.8990000000001,"endTime":1652.8690000000001,"body":"that is, I find that to be"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1649.8990000000001,"endTime":1652.8690000000001,"body":"morally reprehensible because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1652.8690000000001,"endTime":1655.089,"body":"the costs of that are going to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1652.8690000000001,"endTime":1655.089,"body":"fall on the youngest and the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1655.089,"endTime":1657.0990000000002,"body":"poorest in society did,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1657.3400000000001,"endTime":1660.73,"body":"indeed, to record"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1657.3400000000001,"endTime":1660.73,"body":"coming towards the end of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1660.73,"endTime":1665.26,"body":"podcast now. And you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1660.73,"endTime":1665.26,"body":"at the start something called"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1665.29,"endTime":1670.93,"body":"Rumi. And I know you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1665.29,"endTime":1670.93,"body":"chat about that. Before we get"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1670.93,"endTime":1674.71,"body":"into that. Is there anything"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1670.93,"endTime":1674.71,"body":"else that we've not mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1674.74,"endTime":1677.74,"body":"that you think it's important to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1674.74,"endTime":1677.74,"body":"be aware of? Or any question I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1677.74,"endTime":1679.24,"body":"haven't asked that you wish I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1677.74,"endTime":1679.24,"body":"had?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1681.19,"endTime":1683.5900000000001,"body":"No, I think I think"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1681.19,"endTime":1683.5900000000001,"body":"the main thing I would just"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1683.5900000000001,"endTime":1686.71,"body":"leave people with is that we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1683.5900000000001,"endTime":1686.71,"body":"need to aggressively question"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1687.1000000000001,"endTime":1693.04,"body":"the messages coming out of the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1687.1000000000001,"endTime":1693.04,"body":"business community today. I say"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1693.04,"endTime":1695.14,"body":"that, by the way, as a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1693.04,"endTime":1695.14,"body":"capitalist, I'm a former"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1695.14,"endTime":1698.3200000000002,"body":"investment banker, I have an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1695.14,"endTime":1698.3200000000002,"body":"MBA, you know, I am a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1698.3200000000002,"endTime":1702.67,"body":"capitalist. But I believe that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1698.3200000000002,"endTime":1702.67,"body":"in many ways, the current"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1702.67,"endTime":1707.1100000000001,"body":"consensus view that comes out of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1702.67,"endTime":1707.1100000000001,"body":"Davos, and a lot of the sort of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1707.1100000000001,"endTime":1711.4,"body":"leadership in these areas seems"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1707.1100000000001,"endTime":1711.4,"body":"to create this idea that there"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1711.4,"endTime":1715.3300000000002,"body":"is only one version of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1711.4,"endTime":1715.3300000000002,"body":"capitalism, right, that, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1715.3300000000002,"endTime":1718.3,"body":"know, and this is the one we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1715.3300000000002,"endTime":1718.3,"body":"have, and you know, this is that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1718.3,"endTime":1721.96,"body":"the free market will hopefully"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1718.3,"endTime":1721.96,"body":"solve it. And that I think, is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1721.96,"endTime":1725.0800000000002,"body":"extremely dangerous. It's led to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1721.96,"endTime":1725.0800000000002,"body":"younger generations and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1725.0800000000002,"endTime":1727.66,"body":"millennials losing faith in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1725.0800000000002,"endTime":1727.66,"body":"capitalism, right, because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1727.66,"endTime":1731.02,"body":"generally, it's a system. And I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1727.66,"endTime":1731.02,"body":"think, what we need to do is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1731.02,"endTime":1734.05,"body":"question that, because I think"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1731.02,"endTime":1734.05,"body":"generally speaking, capitalism"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1734.05,"endTime":1736.93,"body":"can take different forms, just"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1734.05,"endTime":1736.93,"body":"like football or soccer can take"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1736.93,"endTime":1739.8700000000001,"body":"different forms, their referees"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1736.93,"endTime":1739.8700000000001,"body":"can change the rules if they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1739.8700000000001,"endTime":1742.75,"body":"need to update them. That hasn't"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1739.8700000000001,"endTime":1742.75,"body":"happened yet. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1742.78,"endTime":1745.3300000000002,"body":"you know, what aggressively"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1742.78,"endTime":1745.3300000000002,"body":"which would move the needle is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1745.3300000000002,"endTime":1749.17,"body":"not if we, you know, jettison"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1745.3300000000002,"endTime":1749.17,"body":"capitalism as a system, because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1749.17,"endTime":1751.21,"body":"we know it has had great"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1749.17,"endTime":1751.21,"body":"outcomes in the past, we had"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1751.39,"endTime":1754.06,"body":"better lower inequality, and you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1751.39,"endTime":1754.06,"body":"know, better environmental"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1754.06,"endTime":1757.3600000000001,"body":"protection in the post World War"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1754.06,"endTime":1757.3600000000001,"body":"Two period, there was no such"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1757.3600000000001,"endTime":1759.3700000000001,"body":"thing as sustainable finance,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1757.3600000000001,"endTime":1759.3700000000001,"body":"right? It's because governments"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1759.3700000000001,"endTime":1761.95,"body":"were doing their jobs. And they"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1759.3700000000001,"endTime":1761.95,"body":"were, you know, just like"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1761.95,"endTime":1765.19,"body":"referees doing their jobs. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1761.95,"endTime":1765.19,"body":"they're fixing the rules for the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1765.19,"endTime":1768.01,"body":"current era, and they're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1765.19,"endTime":1768.01,"body":"aggressively enforcing them. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1768.01,"endTime":1770.53,"body":"so I would say that there needs"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1768.01,"endTime":1770.53,"body":"to be a large debate within the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1770.53,"endTime":1773.74,"body":"business community around what"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1770.53,"endTime":1773.74,"body":"the meaning of business ethics"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1773.74,"endTime":1776.1100000000001,"body":"and leadership are. And I think"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1773.74,"endTime":1776.1100000000001,"body":"that that needs to start with"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1776.1100000000001,"endTime":1779.3200000000002,"body":"business understanding its own"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1776.1100000000001,"endTime":1779.3200000000002,"body":"limitations, right, that a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1779.3200000000002,"endTime":1782.8300000000002,"body":"systemic change can only be"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1779.3200000000002,"endTime":1782.8300000000002,"body":"achieved through government"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1782.8300000000002,"endTime":1785.14,"body":"because they don't only"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1782.8300000000002,"endTime":1785.14,"body":"government has systemic powers"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1785.14,"endTime":1787.3600000000001,"body":"to flatten curves and the way"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1785.14,"endTime":1787.3600000000001,"body":"that we need done."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1788.74,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"Very good. Very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1788.74,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"good. Now, when you left Black"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1793.21,"endTime":1799.42,"body":"Rock, you set up Rumi. I think I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1793.21,"endTime":1799.42,"body":"think that's the the the the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1799.42,"endTime":1803.29,"body":"order of events, correct me if"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1799.42,"endTime":1803.29,"body":"I'm wrong. And if I'm right,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1804.43,"endTime":1806.05,"body":"tell people what Rumi is."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1807.13,"endTime":1809.44,"body":"Yeah, I mean, so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1807.13,"endTime":1809.44,"body":"you're, you're almost right."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1809.44,"endTime":1812.23,"body":"Technically, I started Rumi"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1809.44,"endTime":1812.23,"body":"before I went to BlackRock. So"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1812.23,"endTime":1816.91,"body":"what happened is I had, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1812.23,"endTime":1816.91,"body":"actually left the finance space"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1816.94,"endTime":1820.9,"body":"for personal reasons. In 2013. I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1816.94,"endTime":1820.9,"body":"had gone to business school in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1820.9,"endTime":1824.53,"body":"Europe many years ago and NCR"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1820.9,"endTime":1824.53,"body":"and my roommate in Seattle"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1824.53,"endTime":1827.0800000000002,"body":"became one of my best friends."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1824.53,"endTime":1827.0800000000002,"body":"He and I shared a passion for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1827.29,"endTime":1830.23,"body":"working Leaving financing going"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1827.29,"endTime":1830.23,"body":"and doing something, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1830.23,"endTime":1833.5,"body":"with social impact for the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1830.23,"endTime":1833.5,"body":"world, we kept putting it off"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1833.5,"endTime":1836.5,"body":"just like many other people do,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1833.5,"endTime":1836.5,"body":"we went back into finance. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1836.5,"endTime":1839.98,"body":"then he unfortunately contracted"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1836.5,"endTime":1839.98,"body":"stage four cancer. And he was"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1839.98,"endTime":1842.3500000000001,"body":"the same age as me. And you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1839.98,"endTime":1842.3500000000001,"body":"know, at that time, he was in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1842.3500000000001,"endTime":1846.94,"body":"his sort of mid 30s. And so he"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1842.3500000000001,"endTime":1846.94,"body":"sadly passed, but his example"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1847.78,"endTime":1853.3,"body":"really inspired me to, to go and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1847.78,"endTime":1853.3,"body":"start roomy. And, and so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1853.3,"endTime":1855.46,"body":"actually, as I grew it, that's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1853.3,"endTime":1855.46,"body":"one of the reasons BlackRock"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1855.46,"endTime":1857.8,"body":"approached me, because I had"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1855.46,"endTime":1857.8,"body":"experienced in both bottom"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1857.8,"endTime":1861.79,"body":"lines, I had sort of both been a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1857.8,"endTime":1861.79,"body":"financier and investor for many"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1861.79,"endTime":1864.3700000000001,"body":"years. And then I had also gone"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1861.79,"endTime":1864.3700000000001,"body":"in from the ground up created"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1864.3700000000001,"endTime":1867.13,"body":"social impact through a, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1864.3700000000001,"endTime":1867.13,"body":"know, a nonprofit with only a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1867.13,"endTime":1870.3700000000001,"body":"social bottom line. And, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1867.13,"endTime":1870.3700000000001,"body":"know, so I came back to running"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1870.3700000000001,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"Rumi after I left BlackRock."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1870.3700000000001,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"And, you know, the fundamental"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1877.0,"body":"idea behind Rumi is that with,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1877.0,"body":"you know, technology today, we"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1877.0,"endTime":1882.0700000000002,"body":"can massively reduce the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1877.0,"endTime":1882.0700000000002,"body":"inequalities that that exists in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1882.0700000000002,"endTime":1887.17,"body":"education and in learning. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1882.0700000000002,"endTime":1887.17,"body":"our model from the beginning has"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1887.17,"endTime":1890.17,"body":"been to bring free digital"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1887.17,"endTime":1890.17,"body":"learning tools to the least"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1890.17,"endTime":1893.3200000000002,"body":"serve communities. We began by"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1890.17,"endTime":1893.3200000000002,"body":"doing that and everywhere from"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1893.3200000000002,"endTime":1896.74,"body":"Syrian refugee camps to programs"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1893.3200000000002,"endTime":1896.74,"body":"for women and girls in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1896.74,"endTime":1900.64,"body":"Afghanistan to really around the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1896.74,"endTime":1900.64,"body":"world. And last few years, we've"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1900.64,"endTime":1903.28,"body":"started to find that it's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1900.64,"endTime":1903.28,"body":"growing most aggressively,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1903.28,"endTime":1906.94,"body":"actually, in rich countries,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1903.28,"endTime":1906.94,"body":"because we evolved our model to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1906.94,"endTime":1910.0900000000001,"body":"one based on micro learning. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1906.94,"endTime":1910.0900000000001,"body":"the cool thing about micro"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1910.0900000000001,"endTime":1912.01,"body":"learning is that most people"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1910.0900000000001,"endTime":1912.01,"body":"have never heard of it. But the"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1912.01,"endTime":1916.66,"body":"idea is, you learn on your"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1912.01,"endTime":1916.66,"body":"mobile device in five or six"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1916.66,"endTime":1921.22,"body":"minutes snippets, right. And so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1916.66,"endTime":1921.22,"body":"just just just discrete sort of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1921.22,"endTime":1924.1000000000001,"body":"building blocks that you can do"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1921.22,"endTime":1924.1000000000001,"body":"quickly on the go, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1924.1000000000001,"endTime":1928.27,"body":"that meets sort of the modern"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1924.1000000000001,"endTime":1928.27,"body":"learner lifestyle who are tend"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1928.27,"endTime":1931.1200000000001,"body":"to be mobile first. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1928.27,"endTime":1931.1200000000001,"body":"it's really attractive, because"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1931.1200000000001,"endTime":1935.74,"body":"both a it has higher learning"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1931.1200000000001,"endTime":1935.74,"body":"outcomes and better learner"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1935.74,"endTime":1940.18,"body":"retention, just parceling it out"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1935.74,"endTime":1940.18,"body":"in small chunks. Number two,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1940.45,"endTime":1942.8500000000001,"body":"we've leaned aggressively"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1940.45,"endTime":1942.8500000000001,"body":"towards making the content"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1942.88,"endTime":1946.21,"body":"engaging, right? 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And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1961.18,"endTime":1964.72,"body":"that's, in large part why it's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1961.18,"endTime":1964.72,"body":"becoming this large pandemic"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1964.72,"endTime":1967.3600000000001,"body":"success story amongst youth who"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1964.72,"endTime":1967.3600000000001,"body":"were suddenly forced to, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1967.3600000000001,"endTime":1970.15,"body":"know, learn remotely. 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Because you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1982.8700000000001,"endTime":1984.94,"body":"know, you get a dopamine rush,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1982.8700000000001,"endTime":1984.94,"body":"you feel good, if you learn"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1984.94,"endTime":1988.06,"body":"something that's discreet in a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1984.94,"endTime":1988.06,"body":"short period of time. That is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1988.06,"endTime":1990.8200000000002,"body":"exactly what tech companies have"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1988.06,"endTime":1990.8200000000002,"body":"been using to hack our"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1990.8200000000002,"endTime":1993.79,"body":"attention, right? It's that you,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1990.8200000000002,"endTime":1993.79,"body":"you know, you the average"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1993.79,"endTime":1996.13,"body":"session on Instagram is six"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1993.79,"endTime":1996.13,"body":"minutes, right, and you get a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1996.13,"endTime":1998.68,"body":"dopamine rush. And you can just"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1996.13,"endTime":1998.68,"body":"grab your phone, when you're on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1998.68,"endTime":2001.56,"body":"the bus or your dancer that you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":1998.68,"endTime":2001.56,"body":"know, you're just on the go,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2001.56,"endTime":2005.3400000000001,"body":"it's addictive. 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And our goal is, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2020.76,"endTime":2024.39,"body":"know, why don't we try replacing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2024.69,"endTime":2027.0,"body":"that dopamine rush with"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2024.69,"endTime":2027.0,"body":"something that's good for your"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2027.0,"endTime":2028.3500000000001,"body":"mental health rather than"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2027.0,"endTime":2028.3500000000001,"body":"negative"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2028.77,"endTime":2031.65,"body":"superbe? And what"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2028.77,"endTime":2031.65,"body":"what is the business model? How"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2031.65,"endTime":2033.69,"body":"are you getting paid for doing"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2031.65,"endTime":2033.69,"body":"this?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2034.68,"endTime":2037.53,"body":"So we as a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2034.68,"endTime":2037.53,"body":"nonprofit, we have grant funders"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2037.56,"endTime":2042.3600000000001,"body":"that, that back us and so for"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2037.56,"endTime":2042.3600000000001,"body":"example, the GSM association is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2042.3600000000001,"endTime":2044.7,"body":"backing us for the projects"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2042.3600000000001,"endTime":2044.7,"body":"we're doing in Afghanistan,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2045.06,"endTime":2047.7,"body":"which actually, we're working"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2045.06,"endTime":2047.7,"body":"with the mobile operator there"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2047.7,"endTime":2051.48,"body":"to push bytes with these, what"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2047.7,"endTime":2051.48,"body":"we call micro learning courses,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2051.48,"endTime":2054.87,"body":"we call the bytes to mobile"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2051.48,"endTime":2054.87,"body":"phones in Afghanistan, it's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2054.87,"endTime":2058.95,"body":"actually part of programs, we're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2054.87,"endTime":2058.95,"body":"scaling up to address the gap in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2058.98,"endTime":2061.62,"body":"women's and girls education"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2058.98,"endTime":2061.62,"body":"there. And the beautiful thing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2061.62,"endTime":2064.32,"body":"about technology is that if you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2061.62,"endTime":2064.32,"body":"can deliver to a mobile device,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2064.32,"endTime":2068.4,"body":"someone has even a low, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2064.32,"endTime":2068.4,"body":"know, low end Nokia one, you end"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2068.4,"endTime":2072.5099999999998,"body":"up, you know, providing them"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2068.4,"endTime":2072.5099999999998,"body":"with a lifeline to learning in a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2072.5099999999998,"endTime":2075.9900000000002,"body":"way that maybe isn't possible."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2072.5099999999998,"endTime":2075.9900000000002,"body":"And you know, given the local"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2076.05,"endTime":2080.01,"body":"restrictions that exist in"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2076.05,"endTime":2080.01,"body":"society there. And so it's both"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2080.01,"endTime":2084.48,"body":"funded by grants. And it's also"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2080.01,"endTime":2084.48,"body":"funded by large companies, you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2084.48,"endTime":2087.9,"body":"know, that, that will back us"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2084.48,"endTime":2087.9,"body":"both because it creates social"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2087.9,"endTime":2090.42,"body":"impact, but also because it's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2087.9,"endTime":2090.42,"body":"innovative and very quickly"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2090.42,"endTime":2094.62,"body":"scalable. 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Apart from the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2196.59,"endTime":2201.48,"body":"dopamine rush, Do I have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2201.48,"endTime":2202.38,"body":"anything to show for it"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2204.15,"endTime":2206.73,"body":"wasn't a dopamine"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2204.15,"endTime":2206.73,"body":"rush? I think the most important"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2206.73,"endTime":2210.18,"body":"thing that you get or is that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2206.73,"endTime":2210.18,"body":"you end up building skills. And"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2210.18,"endTime":2213.9900000000002,"body":"so I would liken it to imagine a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2210.18,"endTime":2213.9900000000002,"body":"physical diet. Imagine I drink a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2213.9900000000002,"endTime":2217.8,"body":"two liter bottle of coke every"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2213.9900000000002,"endTime":2217.8,"body":"day, I don't, but I do drink"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2217.8,"endTime":2220.05,"body":"sodas, sometimes. But imagine a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2217.8,"endTime":2220.05,"body":"two liter bottle of coke every"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2220.05,"endTime":2224.76,"body":"single day. And I just replaced"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2220.05,"endTime":2224.76,"body":"that with water or you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2224.76,"endTime":2227.55,"body":"something healthier? And I did"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2224.76,"endTime":2227.55,"body":"it for six months, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2227.58,"endTime":2231.96,"body":"without any question, I'd see a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2227.58,"endTime":2231.96,"body":"benefit physically. It's pretty"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2231.96,"endTime":2234.48,"body":"much like a mental health diet,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2231.96,"endTime":2234.48,"body":"if you were to switch those four"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2234.48,"endTime":2237.51,"body":"hours to something that is good"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2234.48,"endTime":2237.51,"body":"for your mental health. But you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2237.51,"endTime":2241.11,"body":"know, gives you a dopamine rush,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2237.51,"endTime":2241.11,"body":"but for for building yourself on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2241.11,"endTime":2244.62,"body":"your skills and for learning."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2241.11,"endTime":2244.62,"body":"That is, you know, it's a mental"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2244.62,"endTime":2248.46,"body":"health diet. And you know, we're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2244.62,"endTime":2248.46,"body":"soon adding micro credentialing"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2248.4900000000002,"endTime":2253.17,"body":"to the mix. Right? So yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2248.4900000000002,"endTime":2253.17,"body":"figured I figured out. So that's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2253.17,"endTime":2256.26,"body":"actually something we're working"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2253.17,"endTime":2256.26,"body":"with a few universities and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2256.26,"endTime":2259.32,"body":"other partners on and so that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2256.26,"endTime":2259.32,"body":"will allow something really"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2259.32,"endTime":2261.69,"body":"novel, which is that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2259.32,"endTime":2261.69,"body":"you go and you create all you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2261.69,"endTime":2263.9700000000003,"body":"know, you complete bites, and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2261.69,"endTime":2263.9700000000003,"body":"you can do five minutes here,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2264.0,"endTime":2267.2400000000002,"body":"five minutes there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2264.0,"endTime":2267.2400000000002,"body":"and just like you do social"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2267.2400000000002,"endTime":2270.87,"body":"media, but then it aggregates"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2267.2400000000002,"endTime":2270.87,"body":"into not just learning and good"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2270.87,"endTime":2273.66,"body":"mental health benefits, but also"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2270.87,"endTime":2273.66,"body":"the micro credentialing that"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2273.66,"endTime":2276.9900000000002,"body":"allows you to concretely you"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2273.66,"endTime":2276.9900000000002,"body":"know, show that you've completed"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2276.9900000000002,"endTime":2279.2400000000002,"body":"these courses. Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2276.9900000000002,"endTime":2279.2400000000002,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2280.32,"endTime":2282.36,"body":"Tarik, we are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2280.32,"endTime":2282.36,"body":"coming to the end of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2282.36,"endTime":2285.81,"body":"now. And we've done the Is there"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2282.36,"endTime":2285.81,"body":"anything? I haven't asked you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2285.81,"endTime":2290.43,"body":"questions? Oh, we're on to the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2285.81,"endTime":2290.43,"body":"last question. If people want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2290.43,"endTime":2294.9900000000002,"body":"know more about yourself, or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2290.43,"endTime":2294.9900000000002,"body":"about sustainable investment are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2295.02,"endTime":2297.78,"body":"about Rumi, are any of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2295.02,"endTime":2297.78,"body":"things we've chatted about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2297.78,"endTime":2300.09,"body":"today? Where would you have me"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2297.78,"endTime":2300.09,"body":"direct them?"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2301.2000000000003,"endTime":2304.41,"body":"I think the best"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2301.2000000000003,"endTime":2304.41,"body":"place is for Rumi is just to go"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2304.41,"endTime":2309.36,"body":"try rumi.org and just give us an"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2304.41,"endTime":2309.36,"body":"rU me.org and just pull it up on"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2309.36,"endTime":2311.9700000000003,"body":"your phone and try out a few"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2309.36,"endTime":2311.9700000000003,"body":"micro learning courses. And if"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2311.9700000000003,"endTime":2314.1,"body":"you'd like some, share them with"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2311.9700000000003,"endTime":2314.1,"body":"people so that, you know it's"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2314.1,"endTime":2316.17,"body":"all open and free. So you're"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2314.1,"endTime":2316.17,"body":"sharing effectively, like a"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2316.17,"endTime":2319.59,"body":"Wikipedia like resource that is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2316.17,"endTime":2319.59,"body":"growing and that we can all I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2319.59,"endTime":2323.43,"body":"think benefit from at this time."},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2319.59,"endTime":2323.43,"body":"And so I would you know, either"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2323.43,"endTime":2328.65,"body":"go there or follow us it's roomy"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2323.43,"endTime":2328.65,"body":"learn is the the social media"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2328.65,"endTime":2333.81,"body":"handle, or my own is so so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2328.65,"endTime":2333.81,"body":"fancy. Because my last name is"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2333.81,"endTime":2337.56,"body":"fancy fancy was taken. So fancy"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2333.81,"endTime":2337.56,"body":"was taken. And so it's so so"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2337.56,"endTime":2341.01,"body":"fancy. And and you know, through"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2337.56,"endTime":2341.01,"body":"social media and other things,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2341.01,"endTime":2344.34,"body":"I'll be sharing a lot more and"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2341.01,"endTime":2344.34,"body":"sustainable investing soon,"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2344.37,"endTime":2347.37,"body":"because there's a large debate"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2344.37,"endTime":2347.37,"body":"debates being sparked. And I"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2347.37,"endTime":2350.34,"body":"think that it's one that's a bit"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2347.37,"endTime":2350.34,"body":"overdue, because, frankly, of"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2350.34,"endTime":2352.7400000000002,"body":"the urgency of the climate"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2350.34,"endTime":2352.7400000000002,"body":"crisis, right. We really need to"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2352.7400000000002,"endTime":2356.79,"body":"be move fast and be skeptical"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2352.7400000000002,"endTime":2356.79,"body":"and concrete about decisive"},{"speaker":"Tariq Fancy","startTime":2356.79,"endTime":2357.87,"body":"action sooner than later."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2358.71,"endTime":2361.14,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2358.71,"endTime":2361.14,"body":"Couldn't agree more. Drink."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2361.14,"endTime":2363.18,"body":"That's been great. Thanks a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2361.14,"endTime":2363.18,"body":"million for coming on the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2363.18,"endTime":2366.93,"body":"podcast today. My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2363.18,"endTime":2366.93,"body":"Thanks for having me on. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2366.93,"endTime":2369.18,"body":"we've come to the end of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2366.93,"endTime":2369.18,"body":"show. Thanks, everyone for"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2369.18,"endTime":2373.35,"body":"listening. If you'd like to know"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2369.18,"endTime":2373.35,"body":"more about climate 21 Feel free"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2373.35,"endTime":2377.64,"body":"to drop me an email to Tom"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2373.35,"endTime":2377.64,"body":"raftery@sap.com or connect with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2377.64,"endTime":2381.09,"body":"me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2377.64,"endTime":2381.09,"body":"you liked the show, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2381.09,"endTime":2383.43,"body":"forget to subscribe to it in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2381.09,"endTime":2383.43,"body":"your podcast application of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2383.43,"endTime":2387.4500000000003,"body":"choice to get new episodes as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2383.43,"endTime":2387.4500000000003,"body":"soon as they're published. Also,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2387.84,"endTime":2390.75,"body":"please don't forget to rate and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2387.84,"endTime":2390.75,"body":"review the podcast. It really"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2390.75,"endTime":2395.79,"body":"does help new people to find the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2390.75,"endTime":2395.79,"body":"show. Thanks. Catch you all next"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2395.79,"endTime":2396.0,"body":"time."}]}