{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2.879,"endTime":5.669,"body":"I would argue the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2.879,"endTime":5.669,"body":"principal benefit to Timberland"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":5.729,"endTime":11.459,"body":"of a justice agenda was that we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":5.729,"endTime":11.459,"body":"were able to recruit and retain"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":11.459,"endTime":14.909,"body":"a workforce that was, I'd say"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":11.459,"endTime":14.909,"body":"two or three notches better than"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":14.909,"endTime":19.499,"body":"we had any right to recruit and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":14.909,"endTime":19.499,"body":"retain. Because people wanted to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":19.499,"endTime":23.069,"body":"affiliate they wanted to work in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":19.499,"endTime":23.069,"body":"a place where their values were"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":23.069,"endTime":24.989,"body":"the same professionally as they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":23.069,"endTime":24.989,"body":"were at home."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.89,"endTime":30.81,"body":"Good morning, good"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":28.89,"endTime":30.81,"body":"afternoon, or good evening,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.81,"endTime":34.53,"body":"wherever you are in the world."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":30.81,"endTime":34.53,"body":"This is the climate 21 podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.59,"endTime":37.68,"body":"the number one podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":34.59,"endTime":37.68,"body":"showcasing best practices and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.68,"endTime":41.01,"body":"climate emissions reductions."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":37.68,"endTime":41.01,"body":"And I'm your host, global Vice"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.01,"endTime":45.87,"body":"President for SAP. Tom Raftery."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":41.01,"endTime":45.87,"body":"Clemmer 21 is the name of an"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.87,"endTime":49.71,"body":"initiative by SAP to allow our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":45.87,"endTime":49.71,"body":"customers calculate, report and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.71,"endTime":53.4,"body":"reduce their greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":49.71,"endTime":53.4,"body":"emissions. In this climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.4,"endTime":57.06,"body":"podcast, I will showcase best"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":53.4,"endTime":57.06,"body":"practices and thought leadership"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.06,"endTime":61.56,"body":"by SAP, by our customers, by our"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":57.06,"endTime":61.56,"body":"partners and by our competitors"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.56,"endTime":65.7,"body":"if their game in climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":61.56,"endTime":65.7,"body":"emissions reductions. Don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.7,"endTime":69.18,"body":"forget to subscribe to this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":65.7,"endTime":69.18,"body":"podcast in your podcast app of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.18,"endTime":74.49,"body":"choice to be sure you don't miss"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":69.18,"endTime":74.49,"body":"any episodes. Hi, everyone."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":74.49,"endTime":77.49,"body":"Welcome to the climate 21"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":74.49,"endTime":77.49,"body":"podcast. My name is Tom Raftery"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.49,"endTime":81.39,"body":"with SAP and with me on the show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":77.49,"endTime":81.39,"body":"today I have my special guest,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.39,"endTime":83.82,"body":"Ken. Ken, would you like to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":81.39,"endTime":83.82,"body":"introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":84.57,"endTime":87.78,"body":"Sure, Tom. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":84.57,"endTime":87.78,"body":"for having me. I'm grateful to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":87.78,"endTime":92.07,"body":"be here. My name is Ken pucker."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":87.78,"endTime":92.07,"body":"I spent the bulk of my"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":92.07,"endTime":96.03,"body":"professional career working at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":92.07,"endTime":96.03,"body":"Timberland which was based in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":96.03,"endTime":100.08,"body":"New Hampshire. I was there for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":96.03,"endTime":100.08,"body":"15 years have 11 roles. The last"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":100.08,"endTime":103.71,"body":"seven years I served as Chief"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":100.08,"endTime":103.71,"body":"Operating Officer. And for the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":103.71,"endTime":107.79,"body":"last decade or so I've been"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":103.71,"endTime":107.79,"body":"focused on the intersection of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":107.82,"endTime":111.9,"body":"capitalism and natural capital"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":107.82,"endTime":111.9,"body":"are the climate across a variety"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":111.9,"endTime":115.53,"body":"of endeavors. I am a advisor to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":111.9,"endTime":115.53,"body":"a private equity firm in Boston"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":115.53,"endTime":119.94,"body":"Berkshire partners. I teach at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":115.53,"endTime":119.94,"body":"the tufts Fletcher School of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":119.94,"endTime":123.78,"body":"Management. I have been writing"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":119.94,"endTime":123.78,"body":"in a number of business"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":123.78,"endTime":126.96,"body":"periodicals and I invest in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":123.78,"endTime":126.96,"body":"responsible companies."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.14,"endTime":132.03,"body":"Nice. Nice. And"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":127.14,"endTime":132.03,"body":"again, I mean, Timberland have a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.03,"endTime":136.95,"body":"name and have had for a long"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":132.03,"endTime":136.95,"body":"time of being a highly"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":136.95,"endTime":140.28,"body":"sustainable company, a company"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":136.95,"endTime":140.28,"body":"that values sustainability very"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":140.28,"endTime":144.15,"body":"highly. And like I said, for a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":140.28,"endTime":144.15,"body":"long time. I mean, back in the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":144.15,"endTime":147.6,"body":"early 2000s, Timberland were"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":144.15,"endTime":147.6,"body":"doing stuff in sustainability"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":147.6,"endTime":151.41,"body":"when other people hadn't come"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":147.6,"endTime":151.41,"body":"across the expression. How did"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":151.41,"endTime":152.28,"body":"that all come about?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":153.3,"endTime":157.89,"body":"So we were fortunate"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":153.3,"endTime":157.89,"body":"the company was made it through"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":157.89,"endTime":161.52,"body":"three generations of family"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":157.89,"endTime":161.52,"body":"control. The first generation"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":161.52,"endTime":165.63,"body":"was a Russian immigrant who fled"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":161.52,"endTime":165.63,"body":"Czarist Russia for religious"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":165.72,"endTime":170.04,"body":"reasons. He passed the company"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":165.72,"endTime":170.04,"body":"off to his two sons, Herman in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":170.04,"endTime":173.22,"body":"Sydney, and they created the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":170.04,"endTime":173.22,"body":"brand Timberland actually in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":173.22,"endTime":178.26,"body":"1973. Herman was an accountant"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":173.22,"endTime":178.26,"body":"and Sydney was a manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":178.26,"endTime":182.64,"body":"guy. Sydney gambled away is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":178.26,"endTime":182.64,"body":"tuition money, sophomore year in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":182.64,"endTime":185.64,"body":"college and hitchhiked home. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":182.64,"endTime":185.64,"body":"so his father then told him to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":185.64,"endTime":189.87,"body":"get a broom. And he ended up"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":185.64,"endTime":189.87,"body":"working in the factory. The two"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":189.87,"endTime":195.27,"body":"brothers didn't really get"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":189.87,"endTime":195.27,"body":"along. And in 1985 Vf"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":195.27,"endTime":199.83,"body":"Corporation came and offered"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":195.27,"endTime":199.83,"body":"them $16 million for the company"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":199.86,"endTime":202.95,"body":"and Herman the analytical and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":199.86,"endTime":202.95,"body":"said, I can do that math, that's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":203.49,"endTime":208.32,"body":"60 divided by 230, I'm ready to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":203.49,"endTime":208.32,"body":"leave. And Sydney said I love"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":208.32,"endTime":211.26,"body":"what I'm doing. I can't envision"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":208.32,"endTime":211.26,"body":"doing anything else. And so the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":211.26,"endTime":214.98,"body":"company went public, via Merrill"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":211.26,"endTime":214.98,"body":"Lynch to pay out Herman so"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":214.98,"endTime":219.03,"body":"Sydney could stay in charge. He"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":214.98,"endTime":219.03,"body":"ran the company until he turned"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":219.03,"endTime":223.11,"body":"60. And that day, he passed the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":219.03,"endTime":223.11,"body":"keys off to his son, Jeff, who"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":223.11,"endTime":228.3,"body":"became CEO and Sidney moved down"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":223.11,"endTime":228.3,"body":"to Florida to garden. Different"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":228.3,"endTime":231.63,"body":"than his father, Jeff was over"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":228.3,"endTime":231.63,"body":"educated, he was pre med at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":231.63,"endTime":236.85,"body":"Brown and went to Dartmouth"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":231.63,"endTime":236.85,"body":"Business School, and was really"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":236.85,"endTime":240.03,"body":"bright and did a super job"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":236.85,"endTime":240.03,"body":"leading the company. He and I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":240.03,"endTime":242.46,"body":"worked together for many years."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":240.03,"endTime":242.46,"body":"And by the time his father"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":242.46,"endTime":246.6,"body":"passed the keys, and Jeff became"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":242.46,"endTime":246.6,"body":"CEO, I became CEO at that point."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":247.26,"endTime":252.78,"body":"And Jeff had found faith on his"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":247.26,"endTime":252.78,"body":"own, and had decided that he"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":252.78,"endTime":255.81,"body":"wasn't interested in working for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":252.78,"endTime":255.81,"body":"a traditional company anymore"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":255.81,"endTime":260.19,"body":"that made shoes and boots and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":255.81,"endTime":260.19,"body":"budgets, but instead needed to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":260.19,"endTime":264.75,"body":"find a way to blend faith in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":260.19,"endTime":264.75,"body":"commerce. And he actually"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":264.75,"endTime":268.14,"body":"created a platform at the time,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":264.75,"endTime":268.14,"body":"which you're right was early in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":268.14,"endTime":272.16,"body":"the early 2000s, called commerce"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":268.14,"endTime":272.16,"body":"and justice and decided that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":272.16,"endTime":275.1,"body":"Timberland is an enterprise was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":272.16,"endTime":275.1,"body":"going to stand for three things"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":275.1,"endTime":278.13,"body":"on the Justice front,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":275.1,"endTime":278.13,"body":"environmental stewardship,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":278.43,"endTime":283.38,"body":"global human rights and citizen"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":278.43,"endTime":283.38,"body":"service. And that was for the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":283.38,"endTime":287.49,"body":"time very, very progressive and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":283.38,"endTime":287.49,"body":"forward looking perhaps even to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":287.55,"endTime":293.31,"body":"too much so he devoted a third"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":287.55,"endTime":293.31,"body":"of his remarks every 90 days"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":293.31,"endTime":297.03,"body":"when we reported to Wall Street"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":293.31,"endTime":297.03,"body":"to Timberlands justice agenda."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":297.45,"endTime":300.75,"body":"And for the 28 quarters, we sat"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":297.45,"endTime":300.75,"body":"together I Never heard one"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":301.14,"endTime":304.68,"body":"question back from Wall Street"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":301.14,"endTime":304.68,"body":"on that part of the story. So it"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":304.68,"endTime":309.66,"body":"may be that he was ahead of his"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":304.68,"endTime":309.66,"body":"time. He was blessed. However,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":309.66,"endTime":312.63,"body":"in the Timberland was, as I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":309.66,"endTime":312.63,"body":"mentioned, a publicly traded"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":312.63,"endTime":315.81,"body":"company in the New York Stock"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":312.63,"endTime":315.81,"body":"Exchange, it was also a company"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":315.81,"endTime":319.8,"body":"that had Class B shares with 10"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":315.81,"endTime":319.8,"body":"to one voting rights. So as long"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":319.8,"endTime":323.16,"body":"as the family controlled 11% of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":319.8,"endTime":323.16,"body":"the outstanding shares, they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":323.16,"endTime":327.9,"body":"could pretty much do what they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":323.16,"endTime":327.9,"body":"wanted. And so to be a company"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":327.9,"endTime":331.65,"body":"committed to commerce and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":327.9,"endTime":331.65,"body":"justice before, this notion is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":331.71,"endTime":334.02,"body":"or notions of environmental"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":331.71,"endTime":334.02,"body":"stewardship or global human"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":334.02,"endTime":337.17,"body":"rights or citizen service, were"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":334.02,"endTime":337.17,"body":"front and center was available"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":337.17,"endTime":339.57,"body":"to him just like it's been"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":337.17,"endTime":339.57,"body":"available to Patagonia, which is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":339.57,"endTime":343.56,"body":"100% owned by one family and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":339.57,"endTime":343.56,"body":"privately held. And so the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":343.56,"endTime":347.67,"body":"company had the advantage of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":343.56,"endTime":347.67,"body":"being able to pursue an agenda"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":347.67,"endTime":350.79,"body":"which may have been more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":347.67,"endTime":350.79,"body":"progressive or forward looking"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":350.79,"endTime":354.24,"body":"than others. But I still give"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":350.79,"endTime":354.24,"body":"Jeff credit for defining that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":354.24,"endTime":357.75,"body":"agenda. And being a leader when"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":354.24,"endTime":357.75,"body":"it came to issues of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":357.75,"endTime":359.46,"body":"responsibility and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":357.75,"endTime":359.46,"body":"sustainability."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":359.61,"endTime":366.15,"body":"Sure, sure. How did"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":359.61,"endTime":366.15,"body":"it impact the company that, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":366.15,"endTime":368.67,"body":"know, the company had this"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":366.15,"endTime":368.67,"body":"vision? How did it impact the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":368.67,"endTime":371.67,"body":"company in terms of what did the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":368.67,"endTime":371.67,"body":"employees think about what did"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":371.67,"endTime":374.88,"body":"customers think about you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":371.67,"endTime":374.88,"body":"did it work in for the benefit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":374.88,"endTime":376.47,"body":"of the company or not?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":376.89,"endTime":380.01,"body":"It's a great"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":376.89,"endTime":380.01,"body":"question. I think, early books"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":380.01,"endTime":384.0,"body":"on sustainability, such as a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":380.01,"endTime":384.0,"body":"book called Green to gold, made"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":384.0,"endTime":387.24,"body":"the point that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":384.0,"endTime":387.24,"body":"everyone should be pursuing this"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":387.24,"endTime":390.24,"body":"kind of an agenda. Because if"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":387.24,"endTime":390.24,"body":"you are a green company, you'll"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":390.24,"endTime":394.23,"body":"just make more money. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":390.24,"endTime":394.23,"body":"believe that's the case. I think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":394.23,"endTime":397.38,"body":"that some things in fact, you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":394.23,"endTime":397.38,"body":"know, we'll return over time and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":397.38,"endTime":401.67,"body":"other things are costs. In the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":397.38,"endTime":401.67,"body":"case of Timberland, I would"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":401.67,"endTime":406.02,"body":"argue that it was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":401.67,"endTime":406.02,"body":"transformative. Timberland was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":406.02,"endTime":409.71,"body":"the first company in the world"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":406.02,"endTime":409.71,"body":"to give all employees 40 hours"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":409.71,"endTime":413.07,"body":"of paid time for community"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":409.71,"endTime":413.07,"body":"service. When I say all"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":413.07,"endTime":415.65,"body":"employees, that includes people"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":413.07,"endTime":415.65,"body":"who worked in our factories and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":415.65,"endTime":419.61,"body":"people who worked in our retail"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":415.65,"endTime":419.61,"body":"stores, timber them installed"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":419.61,"endTime":422.16,"body":"the largest solar array at the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":419.61,"endTime":422.16,"body":"time in the state of California,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":422.19,"endTime":424.77,"body":"Timberland powered its own"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":422.19,"endTime":424.77,"body":"factories on renewable energy."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":424.8,"endTime":429.24,"body":"Timberland did a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":424.8,"endTime":429.24,"body":"that were, again for looking for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":429.24,"endTime":432.57,"body":"the time, and some of them did"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":429.24,"endTime":432.57,"body":"cost money. When we were"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":432.57,"endTime":436.17,"body":"installing solar, for example,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":432.57,"endTime":436.17,"body":"it's not like it is today, where"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":436.17,"endTime":440.43,"body":"solar is actually a cheaper form"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":436.17,"endTime":440.43,"body":"of primary energy, then a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":440.43,"endTime":442.92,"body":"fossil fuel energy was more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":440.43,"endTime":442.92,"body":"expensive at the time, even with"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":442.92,"endTime":447.27,"body":"subsidies. And yet, we still did"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":442.92,"endTime":447.27,"body":"it. And so that was, let's say,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":447.27,"endTime":450.45,"body":"a negative financial impact. But"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":447.27,"endTime":450.45,"body":"it was a commitment that we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":450.45,"endTime":454.44,"body":"made. And so we our commitment,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":450.45,"endTime":454.44,"body":"we also committed to lower our"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":454.44,"endTime":459.0,"body":"carbon footprint, and did a good"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":454.44,"endTime":459.0,"body":"job of doing that in the last"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":459.0,"endTime":461.79,"body":"five years I was there we grew"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":459.0,"endTime":461.79,"body":"by about 15% a year and lowered"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":461.79,"endTime":465.63,"body":"our carbon footprint by about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":461.79,"endTime":465.63,"body":"15% a year. Now, if we want to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":465.63,"endTime":468.6,"body":"get into the specifics of that,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":465.63,"endTime":468.6,"body":"that was our scope, one and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":468.6,"endTime":471.45,"body":"scope two footprint that didn't"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":468.6,"endTime":471.45,"body":"include scope three, which I'm"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":471.45,"endTime":476.19,"body":"happy to speak to later if you'd"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":471.45,"endTime":476.19,"body":"like. But I would argue the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":476.19,"endTime":481.68,"body":"principal benefit to Timberland"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":476.19,"endTime":481.68,"body":"of a justice agenda was that we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":481.68,"endTime":486.3,"body":"were able to recruit and retain"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":481.68,"endTime":486.3,"body":"a workforce that was I'd say,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":486.3,"endTime":489.45,"body":"two or three notches better than"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":486.3,"endTime":489.45,"body":"we had any right to recruit and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":489.45,"endTime":493.71,"body":"retain. Because people wanted to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":489.45,"endTime":493.71,"body":"affiliate, they wanted to work"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":493.71,"endTime":496.86,"body":"in a place where their values"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":493.71,"endTime":496.86,"body":"were the same professionally as"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":496.86,"endTime":501.81,"body":"they were at home. And so the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":496.86,"endTime":501.81,"body":"only evidence I can provide to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":501.81,"endTime":506.07,"body":"you beyond performance of the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":501.81,"endTime":506.07,"body":"company at the time, is, if you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":506.07,"endTime":508.35,"body":"were to look today at every"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":506.07,"endTime":508.35,"body":"director level and above"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":508.35,"endTime":511.41,"body":"employee that worked at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":508.35,"endTime":511.41,"body":"Timberland, when I was there,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":511.83,"endTime":515.1,"body":"and what they're doing now, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":511.83,"endTime":515.1,"body":"think you'd find that an"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":515.1,"endTime":520.29,"body":"inordinate number of CEOs, CFOs,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":515.1,"endTime":520.29,"body":"CEOs, running other companies,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":520.32,"endTime":524.34,"body":"again, they were, I think,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":520.32,"endTime":524.34,"body":"better than we had to write, to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":524.34,"endTime":527.22,"body":"hire as a billion and a half"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":524.34,"endTime":527.22,"body":"dollar company. And so I think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":527.22,"endTime":530.43,"body":"they're putting Tech's net, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":527.22,"endTime":530.43,"body":"think it was a real benefit to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":530.43,"endTime":535.23,"body":"the company. But I can't"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":530.43,"endTime":535.23,"body":"demonstrate to use that to you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":535.23,"endTime":537.84,"body":"in dollars and cents when it"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":535.23,"endTime":537.84,"body":"comes to things like recruitment"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":537.84,"endTime":539.31,"body":"or retention. Okay, and"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":539.31,"endTime":540.18,"body":"what about"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":539.31,"endTime":540.18,"body":"customers?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":541.44,"endTime":542.97,"body":"Such a great"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":541.44,"endTime":542.97,"body":"question. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":543.0,"endTime":547.11,"body":"customers knew we didn't do a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":543.0,"endTime":547.11,"body":"good job really of communicating"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":547.11,"endTime":550.29,"body":"to customers that we were a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":547.11,"endTime":550.29,"body":"company with a platform based on"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":550.29,"endTime":553.83,"body":"Commerce injustice. When we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":550.29,"endTime":553.83,"body":"tried, I think we were pretty"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":553.83,"endTime":557.94,"body":"unsuccessful. We once put"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":553.83,"endTime":557.94,"body":"together an eight page insert"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":558.03,"endTime":563.01,"body":"that ran in periodicals like GQ"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":558.03,"endTime":563.01,"body":"and Vanity Fair when magazines"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":563.01,"endTime":567.12,"body":"actually were a bigger deal than"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":563.01,"endTime":567.12,"body":"they are today. And it talked"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":567.12,"endTime":570.84,"body":"about our commission justice"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":567.12,"endTime":570.84,"body":"platform. And in fact, the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":571.68,"endTime":574.86,"body":"feedback we got from customers"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":571.68,"endTime":574.86,"body":"was more negative than positive."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":575.28,"endTime":579.42,"body":"They asked at the time why it"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":575.28,"endTime":579.42,"body":"was our responsibility to attend"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":579.42,"endTime":583.47,"body":"to these things and who did we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":579.42,"endTime":583.47,"body":"think we were? Again, this is a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":583.47,"endTime":585.93,"body":"function of the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":583.47,"endTime":585.93,"body":"know, this is, you know, 15"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":585.93,"endTime":590.1,"body":"years ago, not today, but I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":585.93,"endTime":590.1,"body":"think it's really hard for a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":590.1,"endTime":592.68,"body":"company to be known for more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":590.1,"endTime":592.68,"body":"than one or two things."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":593.07,"endTime":597.36,"body":"Consumers are busy, they have"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":593.07,"endTime":597.36,"body":"lives. And so I think Timberland"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":597.36,"endTime":601.56,"body":"was known as a company that made"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":597.36,"endTime":601.56,"body":"great durable high quality, high"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":601.56,"endTime":606.9,"body":"performance outdoor gear. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":601.56,"endTime":606.9,"body":"for us to also become famous for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":606.9,"endTime":612.51,"body":"this notion of justice, I think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":606.9,"endTime":612.51,"body":"is a hard task when you have"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":612.54,"endTime":616.59,"body":"kind of 40 years of brand"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":612.54,"endTime":616.59,"body":"building in your week. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":616.59,"endTime":618.99,"body":"don't think we did a great job"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":616.59,"endTime":618.99,"body":"of communicating to customers"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":618.99,"endTime":619.47,"body":"honestly."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":619.74,"endTime":623.46,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":619.74,"endTime":623.46,"body":"Interesting. I mean, that was,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":623.49,"endTime":627.45,"body":"as you said, the early 2000s"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":623.49,"endTime":627.45,"body":"were no, you know, 20 years"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":627.45,"endTime":631.74,"body":"later, other companies have"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":627.45,"endTime":631.74,"body":"started to catch up, maybe even"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":631.77,"endTime":636.3,"body":"overtake what Timberland was"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":631.77,"endTime":636.3,"body":"doing. How do you see that has"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":636.3,"endTime":639.99,"body":"developed in the last 20 years?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":636.3,"endTime":639.99,"body":"Who do you Who do you credit"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":639.99,"endTime":642.9,"body":"with being responsible for the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":639.99,"endTime":642.9,"body":"shift in the mindset of"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":642.9,"endTime":645.99,"body":"organizations? And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":642.9,"endTime":645.99,"body":"how can we do better?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":647.13,"endTime":651.06,"body":"So I'm grateful that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":647.13,"endTime":651.06,"body":"other companies have joined,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":652.14,"endTime":657.42,"body":"stepped up, stepped up? Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":652.14,"endTime":657.42,"body":"don't profess a Timberland was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":657.42,"endTime":660.69,"body":"the best or only at the time,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":657.42,"endTime":660.69,"body":"early days, I think companies"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":660.69,"endTime":663.78,"body":"like Patagonia, as I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":660.69,"endTime":663.78,"body":"before, and Unilever have really"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":664.05,"endTime":667.44,"body":"fantastic track records. And so"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":664.05,"endTime":667.44,"body":"I don't mean to say we're alone."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":667.68,"endTime":672.36,"body":"But it's great that there's more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":667.68,"endTime":672.36,"body":"urgent interest in the topic, be"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":672.36,"endTime":677.64,"body":"it for employee retention, or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":672.36,"endTime":677.64,"body":"for consumer contact or to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":677.64,"endTime":681.0,"body":"retain suppliers, or maybe just"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":677.64,"endTime":681.0,"body":"to save the planet. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":681.0,"endTime":683.76,"body":"think there's a lot more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":681.0,"endTime":683.76,"body":"compelling reasons today, and a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":683.76,"endTime":687.42,"body":"lot more urgency because the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":683.76,"endTime":687.42,"body":"problems are bigger today. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":687.42,"endTime":691.17,"body":"so on the one hand, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":687.42,"endTime":691.17,"body":"really good that today, for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":691.17,"endTime":695.79,"body":"example, 90% of s\u0026p 500"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":691.17,"endTime":695.79,"body":"companies issue a CSR report,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":695.79,"endTime":700.26,"body":"whereas in 2002, and Timberland"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":695.79,"endTime":700.26,"body":"issued its first CSR report, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":700.26,"endTime":702.48,"body":"think it was probably one or two"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":700.26,"endTime":702.48,"body":"hands, you could count the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":702.48,"endTime":707.19,"body":"numbers of companies in the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":702.48,"endTime":707.19,"body":"world that did. But at the same"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":707.19,"endTime":712.38,"body":"time, I don't think we can"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":707.19,"endTime":712.38,"body":"confuse voluntary corporate"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":712.38,"endTime":720.09,"body":"action or CSR reporting as"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":712.38,"endTime":720.09,"body":"proxies for positive impact. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":720.09,"endTime":723.15,"body":"so for example, when I said"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":720.09,"endTime":723.15,"body":"Timberland issued the first CSR"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":723.15,"endTime":725.91,"body":"report, or one of the first CSR"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":723.15,"endTime":725.91,"body":"reports in 2002, I think the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":725.91,"endTime":731.46,"body":"first CSR report ever issued"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":725.91,"endTime":731.46,"body":"was, was by shell. And so"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":732.03,"endTime":737.1,"body":"issuing the report and telling"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":732.03,"endTime":737.1,"body":"you what, or telling the world"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":737.1,"endTime":740.58,"body":"what your environmental social"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":737.1,"endTime":740.58,"body":"impact is, is not a proxy for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":740.58,"endTime":745.17,"body":"progress. And let me return to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":740.58,"endTime":745.17,"body":"something I mentioned prior and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":745.17,"endTime":749.55,"body":"be self critical. The results of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":745.17,"endTime":749.55,"body":"Timberland achieved in terms of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":749.55,"endTime":752.16,"body":"carbon reduction that I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":749.55,"endTime":752.16,"body":"mentioned before, 15%, a year"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":752.16,"endTime":755.94,"body":"for five years when the company"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":752.16,"endTime":755.94,"body":"was growing, are in fact,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":755.94,"endTime":758.4,"body":"laudable. But I mentioned it was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":755.94,"endTime":758.4,"body":"scope one and two emissions. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":758.91,"endTime":762.57,"body":"for those not familiar with the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":758.91,"endTime":762.57,"body":"greenhouse gas protocol on"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":762.6,"endTime":765.57,"body":"emission scopes, there are three"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":762.6,"endTime":765.57,"body":"scope one, two, and three scope"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":765.57,"endTime":768.9,"body":"one is kind of in your own"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":765.57,"endTime":768.9,"body":"facilities. Scope two is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":768.9,"endTime":771.27,"body":"purchased electricity, and scope"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":768.9,"endTime":771.27,"body":"three is everything else."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":771.27,"endTime":774.06,"body":"There's 15 categories and scope,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":771.27,"endTime":774.06,"body":"three, upstream and downstream"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":774.06,"endTime":777.75,"body":"emissions. And what I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":774.06,"endTime":777.75,"body":"was tymberlee did a good job on"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":777.75,"endTime":782.07,"body":"scopes one and two, well, those"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":777.75,"endTime":782.07,"body":"are represented 4% of our total"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":782.07,"endTime":786.51,"body":"emissions. So we weren't able to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":782.07,"endTime":786.51,"body":"report on the other 96, I can"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":786.51,"endTime":790.26,"body":"guarantee you they went up. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":786.51,"endTime":790.26,"body":"the reason we weren't able to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":790.26,"endTime":793.5,"body":"report is not lack of interest,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":790.26,"endTime":793.5,"body":"or an attempt to deceive. We"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":793.5,"endTime":795.72,"body":"actually noted that in our"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":793.5,"endTime":795.72,"body":"report that we were only"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":795.72,"endTime":799.92,"body":"reporting on 4%. The reason we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":795.72,"endTime":799.92,"body":"were unable to produce"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":799.92,"endTime":802.68,"body":"information on scope three"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":799.92,"endTime":802.68,"body":"emissions is there aren't"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":803.64,"endTime":811.83,"body":"regulatory frameworks or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":803.64,"endTime":811.83,"body":"software or requirements that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":811.83,"endTime":814.92,"body":"suppliers provide that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":811.83,"endTime":814.92,"body":"information. And in Timberlands"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":814.92,"endTime":818.52,"body":"case, you'd have to track more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":814.92,"endTime":818.52,"body":"than 50,000 data points every"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":818.52,"endTime":822.36,"body":"six months. In order to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":818.52,"endTime":822.36,"body":"calculate what your scope three"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":822.36,"endTime":825.84,"body":"emissions were Remember, this is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":822.36,"endTime":825.84,"body":"transport. This is manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":825.87,"endTime":830.4,"body":"your tier one, tier two, tier"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":825.87,"endTime":830.4,"body":"three, tier four suppliers. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":830.4,"endTime":834.84,"body":"I'm sad to report that today,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":830.4,"endTime":834.84,"body":"you know, these 20 years later,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":835.02,"endTime":839.52,"body":"less than 50% of the same s\u0026p"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":835.02,"endTime":839.52,"body":"500 companies that are reporting"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":839.52,"endTime":843.12,"body":"provide any information on their"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":839.52,"endTime":843.12,"body":"scope, three emissions, and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":843.12,"endTime":847.35,"body":"fewer than 50% of companies"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":843.12,"endTime":847.35,"body":"provide audit verification of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":847.35,"endTime":851.58,"body":"their CSR reports. And so while"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":847.35,"endTime":851.58,"body":"it's great that more companies"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":851.58,"endTime":854.67,"body":"are starting to be or are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":851.58,"endTime":854.67,"body":"committed to this agenda, and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":854.67,"endTime":859.02,"body":"it's great that more companies"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":854.67,"endTime":859.02,"body":"are reporting. It's true also"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":859.02,"endTime":862.08,"body":"that carbon emissions today are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":859.02,"endTime":862.08,"body":"50% greater than they were 25"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":862.08,"endTime":867.51,"body":"years ago. And so one has to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":862.08,"endTime":867.51,"body":"ask, how much impact has this"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":867.51,"endTime":869.25,"body":"movement actually delivered?"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.3100000000001,"endTime":904.25,"body":"Do you see that in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":898.3100000000001,"endTime":904.25,"body":"the more recent last, say, five"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.25,"endTime":910.7,"body":"years or even less, that there's"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":904.25,"endTime":910.7,"body":"been a shift from CSR to ESG."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":910.7600000000001,"endTime":916.85,"body":"And that this is more than just"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":910.7600000000001,"endTime":916.85,"body":"I think, more than just a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":917.0600000000001,"endTime":922.1600000000001,"body":"changing of the initials. You"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":917.0600000000001,"endTime":922.1600000000001,"body":"know, I think when people start"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":922.1600000000001,"endTime":927.44,"body":"to shift to ESG, from what I've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":922.1600000000001,"endTime":927.44,"body":"seen, it it seems to be taking"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":927.44,"endTime":931.34,"body":"And more seriously, it seems to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":927.44,"endTime":931.34,"body":"be more of a board issue. CSR"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":931.34,"endTime":934.58,"body":"was typically more of a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":931.34,"endTime":934.58,"body":"marketing role, I think where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":934.58,"endTime":940.49,"body":"ESG tends to come in more under"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":934.58,"endTime":940.49,"body":"the CFO organization. And with"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":940.49,"endTime":945.98,"body":"that in mind, you would hope"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":940.49,"endTime":945.98,"body":"that ESG reporting would become"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":946.3100000000001,"endTime":952.61,"body":"more reliable, I guess, as a as"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":946.3100000000001,"endTime":952.61,"body":"a proxy for actual data on"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":952.61,"endTime":953.2700000000001,"body":"emissions."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":954.2900000000001,"endTime":959.69,"body":"Yes, you would hope"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":954.2900000000001,"endTime":959.69,"body":"I, I reflect definitely two"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":959.69,"endTime":963.6500000000001,"body":"things. First of all, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":959.69,"endTime":963.6500000000001,"body":"there was a very newsworthy"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":963.74,"endTime":966.74,"body":"announcement two years ago by"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":963.74,"endTime":966.74,"body":"the Business Roundtable in the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":966.74,"endTime":969.59,"body":"United States, which is, you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":966.74,"endTime":969.59,"body":"know, an aggregation of some of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":969.59,"endTime":971.7800000000001,"body":"the hundreds of biggest"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":969.59,"endTime":971.7800000000001,"body":"companies publicly traded"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":971.7800000000001,"endTime":975.5,"body":"companies. And they declared"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":971.7800000000001,"endTime":975.5,"body":"that they were no longer going"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":975.5,"endTime":979.0100000000001,"body":"to be focused on shareholder"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":975.5,"endTime":979.0100000000001,"body":"first or shareholder primacy."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":979.0100000000001,"endTime":983.0600000000001,"body":"But we're going to attend to the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":979.0100000000001,"endTime":983.0600000000001,"body":"needs of stakeholders broadly,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":983.0600000000001,"endTime":986.12,"body":"to include employees and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":983.0600000000001,"endTime":986.12,"body":"customers and suppliers and the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":986.12,"endTime":990.32,"body":"environment. And a study was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":986.12,"endTime":990.32,"body":"just recently undertaken by"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":990.32,"endTime":995.4200000000001,"body":"professors at Harvard Law School"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":990.32,"endTime":995.4200000000001,"body":"to determine what was the impact"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":995.5100000000001,"endTime":1001.5400000000001,"body":"of that declaration. And sadly,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":995.5100000000001,"endTime":1001.5400000000001,"body":"what they found is nothing, that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1001.6600000000001,"endTime":1004.87,"body":"not a single company of those"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1001.6600000000001,"endTime":1004.87,"body":"that made this pronouncement"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1004.87,"endTime":1007.87,"body":"have changed their incentives,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1004.87,"endTime":1007.87,"body":"for example, for executive pet."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1008.62,"endTime":1013.3000000000001,"body":"In fact, they found that very"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1008.62,"endTime":1013.3000000000001,"body":"few, less than five companies"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1013.3000000000001,"endTime":1016.48,"body":"even had a consultation with"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1013.3000000000001,"endTime":1016.48,"body":"their board prior to signing the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1016.48,"endTime":1021.4300000000001,"body":"Business Roundtable statement."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1016.48,"endTime":1021.4300000000001,"body":"And so I guess it's to say that,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1021.46,"endTime":1027.34,"body":"you know, claims and commitments"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1021.46,"endTime":1027.34,"body":"are cheap. We have to judge"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1028.24,"endTime":1033.64,"body":"progress based on action. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1028.24,"endTime":1033.64,"body":"with specific reference to your"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1033.64,"endTime":1038.92,"body":"question about ESG. Well, ESG is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1033.64,"endTime":1038.92,"body":"you know, yet another acronym."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1038.92,"endTime":1041.86,"body":"It's really the flip side of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1038.92,"endTime":1041.86,"body":"what companies call CSR, the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1045.67,"body":"investment world calls ESG,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1045.67,"body":"environmental, social"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1045.67,"endTime":1049.33,"body":"governance. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1045.67,"endTime":1049.33,"body":"great again, that investors are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1049.33,"endTime":1055.42,"body":"now more engaged in questions of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1049.33,"endTime":1055.42,"body":"ESG or CSR than they were when I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1055.42,"endTime":1058.24,"body":"mentioned, Jeff was reporting to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1055.42,"endTime":1058.24,"body":"Wall Street, and we've got no"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1059.05,"body":"questions."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1060.3990000000001,"endTime":1064.299,"body":"So net, I think it's good that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1060.3990000000001,"endTime":1064.299,"body":"you know, investors are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1064.299,"endTime":1070.3890000000001,"body":"concerned and investors view ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1064.299,"endTime":1070.3890000000001,"body":"as either a business risk or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1070.3890000000001,"endTime":1075.3690000000001,"body":"opportunity, and it's getting"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1070.3890000000001,"endTime":1075.3690000000001,"body":"more focus and reporting and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1075.3990000000001,"endTime":1081.459,"body":"transparency and conversation."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1075.3990000000001,"endTime":1081.459,"body":"Again, though, if we peel back"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1081.459,"endTime":1085.5990000000002,"body":"the onion just a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1081.459,"endTime":1085.5990000000002,"body":"look at what ESG is purported to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1085.5990000000002,"endTime":1088.809,"body":"be versus what it actually is, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1085.5990000000002,"endTime":1088.809,"body":"think there's a distinction"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1088.809,"endTime":1092.8590000000002,"body":"between the two, you'll read"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1088.809,"endTime":1092.8590000000002,"body":"headline numbers that ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1092.8590000000002,"endTime":1097.689,"body":"investment is now represents"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1092.8590000000002,"endTime":1097.689,"body":"more than one in $3 invested"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1097.689,"endTime":1102.249,"body":"globally, there's some form of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1097.689,"endTime":1102.249,"body":"ESG proxy or mandate for those"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1102.249,"endTime":1106.269,"body":"dollars. So that's about $35"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1102.249,"endTime":1106.269,"body":"trillion, according to the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1106.269,"endTime":1112.959,"body":"latest report from the reporting"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1106.269,"endTime":1112.959,"body":"aggregator of invest ESG assets,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1114.039,"endTime":1118.479,"body":"well, more than half that $35"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1114.039,"endTime":1118.479,"body":"trillion, or what's called"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1118.479,"endTime":1122.319,"body":"negative screen funds, their"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1118.479,"endTime":1122.319,"body":"funds to just commit not to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1122.319,"endTime":1126.039,"body":"invest in specific industries,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1122.319,"endTime":1126.039,"body":"they may not invest in tobacco,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1126.309,"endTime":1129.0990000000002,"body":"they may have a religious"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1126.309,"endTime":1129.0990000000002,"body":"mandate not to invest in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1129.219,"endTime":1132.309,"body":"companies that engage in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1129.219,"endTime":1132.309,"body":"pornography, they may not invest"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1132.309,"endTime":1136.269,"body":"in weapons manufacturers or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1132.309,"endTime":1136.269,"body":"fossil fuel companies. And I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1136.269,"endTime":1140.919,"body":"think it's fair to say that if"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1136.269,"endTime":1140.919,"body":"the funds or assets are being"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1140.919,"endTime":1145.419,"body":"deployed in anything but a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1140.919,"endTime":1145.419,"body":"specific industry, it's unlikely"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1145.449,"endTime":1148.1490000000001,"body":"that they're going to have much"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1145.449,"endTime":1148.1490000000001,"body":"of a profound impact in terms of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1148.1490000000001,"endTime":1152.559,"body":"behavior change. So that's call"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1148.1490000000001,"endTime":1152.559,"body":"it you know, 18 trillion of the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1152.559,"endTime":1158.679,"body":"35 trillion. The next biggest"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1152.559,"endTime":1158.679,"body":"category is ESG integration. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1158.679,"endTime":1165.009,"body":"that's just a proxy for thinking"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1158.679,"endTime":1165.009,"body":"about ESG benefits and risks. In"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1165.009,"endTime":1169.059,"body":"combination with fundamental"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1165.009,"endTime":1169.059,"body":"analysis, when BlackRock or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1169.059,"endTime":1172.3590000000002,"body":"Morgan Stanley or Vanguard are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1169.059,"endTime":1172.3590000000002,"body":"thinking about how to aggregate"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1172.3890000000001,"endTime":1178.3890000000001,"body":"their their funds. I'll give you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1172.3890000000001,"endTime":1178.3890000000001,"body":"an example. A fund which is,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1178.749,"endTime":1181.659,"body":"which falls under this category"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1178.749,"endTime":1181.659,"body":"called ESG. integration."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1182.319,"endTime":1185.3490000000002,"body":"BlackRock, the largest asset"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1182.319,"endTime":1185.3490000000002,"body":"manager in the world, they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1185.3490000000002,"endTime":1188.799,"body":"manage I think, over $9 trillion"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1185.3490000000002,"endTime":1188.799,"body":"of assets right now led by Larry"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1188.799,"endTime":1191.169,"body":"Fink, who has been very, very"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1188.799,"endTime":1191.169,"body":"vocal about the needs of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1191.169,"endTime":1194.439,"body":"companies to attend to climate"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1191.169,"endTime":1194.439,"body":"change in the light. They"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1194.439,"endTime":1200.979,"body":"launched a fund on April eighth"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1194.439,"endTime":1200.979,"body":"of this year called the US"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1201.459,"endTime":1206.019,"body":"carbon readiness transition"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1201.459,"endTime":1206.019,"body":"fund. And it was the most"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1206.019,"endTime":1210.039,"body":"successful ETF lat launched in a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1206.019,"endTime":1210.039,"body":"single day, it raised $1.25"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1210.039,"endTime":1214.3590000000002,"body":"billion in one day, which on the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1210.039,"endTime":1214.3590000000002,"body":"one hand, one would think that's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1214.3890000000001,"endTime":1218.439,"body":"awesome. Investors are caring"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1214.3890000000001,"endTime":1218.439,"body":"more about these outcomes, like"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1218.529,"endTime":1222.549,"body":"climate and carbon in transition"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1218.529,"endTime":1222.549,"body":"and deploying capital behind"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1222.549,"endTime":1227.3790000000001,"body":"those concerns. And on the face"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1222.549,"endTime":1227.3790000000001,"body":"of it, that's true, however,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1228.219,"endTime":1231.579,"body":"their holdings are available"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1228.219,"endTime":1231.579,"body":"publicly online. And so you can"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1231.579,"endTime":1235.989,"body":"look at what is one of the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1231.579,"endTime":1235.989,"body":"invest assets that comprise this"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1236.019,"endTime":1239.589,"body":"us carbon transition readiness"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1236.019,"endTime":1239.589,"body":"fund? Well, you'll find their"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1239.589,"endTime":1242.739,"body":"biggest holdings earning"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1239.589,"endTime":1242.739,"body":"information technology firms"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1242.769,"endTime":1248.6490000000001,"body":"like Google, or Facebook, etc,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1242.769,"endTime":1248.6490000000001,"body":"Microsoft, that represents over"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1248.6490000000001,"endTime":1252.039,"body":"20% of the fund the next big"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1248.6490000000001,"endTime":1252.039,"body":"27%, I think the next biggest"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1252.039,"endTime":1254.739,"body":"holding is our healthcare"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1252.039,"endTime":1254.739,"body":"companies, we represent 13% of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1254.739,"endTime":1258.009,"body":"the fund. And if you look at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1254.739,"endTime":1258.009,"body":"specific companies that are held"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1258.009,"endTime":1261.039,"body":"within that fund, Apple's the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1258.009,"endTime":1261.039,"body":"largest holding, but that fund"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1261.039,"endTime":1265.779,"body":"also holds Exxon, and Chevron,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1261.039,"endTime":1265.779,"body":"and Dover industrial"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1265.779,"endTime":1269.6190000000001,"body":"corporations, which makes pumps"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1265.779,"endTime":1269.6190000000001,"body":"for gas stations and the like."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1270.3690000000001,"endTime":1273.0990000000002,"body":"And so I would argue that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1270.3690000000001,"endTime":1273.0990000000002,"body":"there's really nothing much"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1273.189,"endTime":1278.589,"body":"about it, that is driving"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1273.189,"endTime":1278.589,"body":"towards climate transition, or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1278.6190000000001,"endTime":1283.5990000000002,"body":"carbon reduction. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1278.6190000000001,"endTime":1283.5990000000002,"body":"the second biggest category is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1283.5990000000002,"endTime":1289.1190000000001,"body":"ESG integration. So I think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1283.5990000000002,"endTime":1289.1190000000001,"body":"there are certain funds that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1289.1190000000001,"endTime":1294.459,"body":"actually are committed to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1289.1190000000001,"endTime":1294.459,"body":"impact, positive impact. And but"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1294.459,"endTime":1297.279,"body":"they're few and far between."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1294.459,"endTime":1297.279,"body":"There's a category of funds that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1297.279,"endTime":1302.259,"body":"are called impact investments,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1297.279,"endTime":1302.259,"body":"that most of which think about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1302.259,"endTime":1305.199,"body":"social environmental returns as"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1302.259,"endTime":1305.199,"body":"a primary objective. And I think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1305.199,"endTime":1309.219,"body":"those do have an impact. There's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1305.199,"endTime":1309.219,"body":"another category called now"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1309.219,"endTime":1315.789,"body":"climate tech, which is venture"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1309.219,"endTime":1315.789,"body":"capital that's focused on E or s"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1315.819,"endTime":1321.519,"body":"endeavors. It's growing very"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1315.819,"endTime":1321.519,"body":"quickly. It's now in the first"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1321.519,"endTime":1327.309,"body":"half of this year was it's at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1321.519,"endTime":1327.309,"body":"$16 billion, and is likely to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1327.309,"endTime":1332.919,"body":"crest over $35 billion this"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1327.309,"endTime":1332.919,"body":"year, which is great and fast"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1332.919,"endTime":1336.819,"body":"growing. And it means that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1332.919,"endTime":1336.819,"body":"venture investors are thinking"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1336.819,"endTime":1340.509,"body":"more about the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1336.819,"endTime":1340.509,"body":"behind things like renewable"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1340.509,"endTime":1344.169,"body":"energy, or electric vehicles, or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1340.509,"endTime":1344.169,"body":"ag tech or things that have to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1344.439,"endTime":1345.1290000000001,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1346.479,"endTime":1349.179,"body":"And so both those categories are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1346.479,"endTime":1349.179,"body":"think are good. And I think now"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1349.179,"endTime":1352.719,"body":"some private equity firms are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1349.179,"endTime":1352.719,"body":"even creating big funds focused"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1352.749,"endTime":1357.309,"body":"on the same issues. But if you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1352.749,"endTime":1357.309,"body":"look at the sum of capital"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1357.489,"endTime":1361.929,"body":"that's being deployed against"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1357.489,"endTime":1361.929,"body":"what I would think are ns"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1361.929,"endTime":1365.079,"body":"fundamental issues, kind of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1361.929,"endTime":1365.079,"body":"existential issues, it looks"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1365.079,"endTime":1369.909,"body":"like it's about 1/5 to 1/10"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1365.079,"endTime":1369.909,"body":"annually, the capital that's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1369.909,"endTime":1373.569,"body":"required, in order to ensure"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1369.909,"endTime":1373.569,"body":"that we have a sustainable"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1373.569,"endTime":1379.539,"body":"future, or an economy that keeps"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1373.569,"endTime":1379.539,"body":"global warming to less than one"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1379.539,"endTime":1383.8890000000001,"body":"and a half or two degrees"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1379.539,"endTime":1383.8890000000001,"body":"Celsius. So on the one hand, is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1383.8890000000001,"endTime":1388.929,"body":"real progress of the impact"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1383.8890000000001,"endTime":1388.929,"body":"area, some of the bigger impact"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1388.929,"endTime":1393.159,"body":"funds, the venture area, in what"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1388.929,"endTime":1393.159,"body":"I call climate tech. But the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1393.159,"endTime":1398.559,"body":"broad ESG narrative, I think, is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1393.159,"endTime":1398.559,"body":"still really, really oversold."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1399.189,"endTime":1402.339,"body":"How much of that do"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1399.189,"endTime":1402.339,"body":"you think is because this is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1402.339,"endTime":1406.1190000000001,"body":"still a very immature space? I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1402.339,"endTime":1406.1190000000001,"body":"mean, from what you were saying"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1406.1190000000001,"endTime":1409.179,"body":"there a second ago, it seemed"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1406.1190000000001,"endTime":1409.179,"body":"like the investors aren't keen"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1409.179,"endTime":1413.289,"body":"for these kinds of stocks, is"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1409.179,"endTime":1413.289,"body":"just in some cases, you might"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1413.289,"endTime":1414.579,"body":"argue they were sold a pup"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1414.79,"endTime":1417.55,"body":"is an excellent"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1414.79,"endTime":1417.55,"body":"point, this this space is mostly"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1417.55,"endTime":1421.0,"body":"unregulated. The EU, again, is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1417.55,"endTime":1421.0,"body":"ahead of the US and Asia as it"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1421.0,"endTime":1425.6200000000001,"body":"typically isn't these fronts."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1421.0,"endTime":1425.6200000000001,"body":"But at for the most part, the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1425.6200000000001,"endTime":1431.8,"body":"vast majority of ESG. Assets are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1425.6200000000001,"endTime":1431.8,"body":"unregulated. And so what you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1431.8,"endTime":1435.3400000000001,"body":"think constitutes an ESG fund,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1431.8,"endTime":1435.3400000000001,"body":"you can label as such now that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1435.3400000000001,"endTime":1438.88,"body":"is changing unequivocally first"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1435.3400000000001,"endTime":1438.88,"body":"in Europe, and then likely in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1438.88,"endTime":1443.56,"body":"the United States as well. But"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1438.88,"endTime":1443.56,"body":"your point about our investors"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1443.56,"endTime":1448.15,"body":"interested? I think the answer"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1443.56,"endTime":1448.15,"body":"is increasingly So as a result,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1448.3600000000001,"endTime":1451.48,"body":"the asset managers are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1448.3600000000001,"endTime":1451.48,"body":"productizing, or making more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1451.48,"endTime":1455.74,"body":"products to satisfy that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1451.48,"endTime":1455.74,"body":"investor demand. And lo and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1455.74,"endTime":1460.8400000000001,"body":"behold, asset managers get"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1455.74,"endTime":1460.8400000000001,"body":"higher fees on ESG funds,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1461.53,"endTime":1464.77,"body":"considerably higher fees,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1461.53,"endTime":1464.77,"body":"according to an analysis by"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1464.77,"endTime":1469.39,"body":"factset. Recently, they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1464.77,"endTime":1469.39,"body":"concluded that ESG funds carry a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1469.39,"endTime":1475.03,"body":"43% higher fee than traditional"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1469.39,"endTime":1475.03,"body":"funds. So if you're an asset"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1475.03,"endTime":1477.8200000000002,"body":"manager, there's certainly"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1475.03,"endTime":1477.8200000000002,"body":"incentive from a financial"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1477.8200000000002,"endTime":1481.3,"body":"standpoint to create ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1477.8200000000002,"endTime":1481.3,"body":"opportunities for investors, and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1481.3,"endTime":1486.01,"body":"they certainly demand for them."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1481.3,"endTime":1486.01,"body":"The question really is twofold."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1486.01,"endTime":1490.3600000000001,"body":"One is do they deliver superior"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1486.01,"endTime":1490.3600000000001,"body":"returns? Which is what many are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1490.3600000000001,"endTime":1494.38,"body":"promising? So alpha, is the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1490.3600000000001,"endTime":1494.38,"body":"financial term for that? Do they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1494.38,"endTime":1498.67,"body":"deliver alpha or better returns"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1494.38,"endTime":1498.67,"body":"in traditional funds? And two,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1498.7,"endTime":1503.56,"body":"did they deliver impact? Did"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1498.7,"endTime":1503.56,"body":"they deliver better social"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1503.56,"endTime":1507.97,"body":"environmental outcomes? And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1503.56,"endTime":1507.97,"body":"well, 1000s of studies literally"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1507.97,"endTime":1510.8500000000001,"body":"have been done to determine the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1507.97,"endTime":1510.8500000000001,"body":"answer to the first question of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1510.8500000000001,"endTime":1515.92,"body":"do such funds deliver alpha? I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1510.8500000000001,"endTime":1515.92,"body":"could only find less than five"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1515.95,"endTime":1518.65,"body":"studies that have looked at the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1515.95,"endTime":1518.65,"body":"question of whether ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1518.8300000000002,"endTime":1523.42,"body":"investment delivers impact"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1518.8300000000002,"endTime":1523.42,"body":"positive impact. It's assumed"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1523.42,"endTime":1526.06,"body":"almost that they do because how"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1523.42,"endTime":1526.06,"body":"Couldn't you if you're investing"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1526.06,"endTime":1530.05,"body":"in better stuff per se? But if"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1526.06,"endTime":1530.05,"body":"you believe what I just went"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1530.05,"endTime":1531.8500000000001,"body":"through about what they're"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1530.05,"endTime":1531.8500000000001,"body":"investing in, they're mostly"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1531.8500000000001,"endTime":1537.7,"body":"investing in the same stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1531.8500000000001,"endTime":1537.7,"body":"so I would argue that the ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1538.0,"endTime":1544.21,"body":"movement, as currently situated,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1538.0,"endTime":1544.21,"body":"is overselling its ability to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1544.21,"endTime":1548.8600000000001,"body":"deliver impact, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1544.21,"endTime":1548.8600000000001,"body":"dangerous. Because if you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1548.8600000000001,"endTime":1552.04,"body":"believe that ESG is the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1548.8600000000001,"endTime":1552.04,"body":"solution, or ESG investment is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1552.04,"endTime":1557.26,"body":"the solution that will defer"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1552.04,"endTime":1557.26,"body":"what I think are more readily"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1557.26,"endTime":1563.02,"body":"trusted solutions that are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1557.26,"endTime":1563.02,"body":"required. So how to fix it. So I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1563.02,"endTime":1567.28,"body":"think we know how to fix it, but"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1563.02,"endTime":1567.28,"body":"it's hard to stare at. For those"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1567.28,"endTime":1571.48,"body":"with long memories, they'll"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1567.28,"endTime":1571.48,"body":"recognize that, in the 1970s,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1571.51,"endTime":1574.8700000000001,"body":"the United States was the most"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1571.51,"endTime":1574.8700000000001,"body":"active period of environmental"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1574.8700000000001,"endTime":1578.5,"body":"regulation in the country's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1574.8700000000001,"endTime":1578.5,"body":"history. At the time, there was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1578.5,"endTime":1582.46,"body":"a Republican in the presidency"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1578.5,"endTime":1582.46,"body":"is Richard Nixon. At the time"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1582.46,"endTime":1585.94,"body":"there was Republican Congress,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1582.46,"endTime":1585.94,"body":"which is hard to fathom today."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1586.75,"endTime":1587.77,"body":"But water acts"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1587.769,"endTime":1588.3990000000001,"body":"were passed, right."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1589.45,"endTime":1593.14,"body":"Also, the EPA was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1589.45,"endTime":1593.14,"body":"founded at that time, and those"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1593.14,"endTime":1596.14,"body":"who had a profoundly positive"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1593.14,"endTime":1596.14,"body":"impact that argue on things like"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1596.14,"endTime":1600.1000000000001,"body":"air quality, and water quality"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1596.14,"endTime":1600.1000000000001,"body":"and things like that, and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1600.5800000000002,"endTime":1604.8700000000001,"body":"pollutants in the atmosphere. We"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1600.5800000000002,"endTime":1604.8700000000001,"body":"have another great example in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1604.9,"endTime":1610.18,"body":"the Montreal Protocol, which was"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1604.9,"endTime":1610.18,"body":"a treaty that was signed by over"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1610.18,"endTime":1616.6000000000001,"body":"170 countries to actually"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1610.18,"endTime":1616.6000000000001,"body":"ameliorate the damage being done"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1616.6000000000001,"endTime":1620.5,"body":"to the ozone layer. And if you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1616.6000000000001,"endTime":1620.5,"body":"look at the data, the ozone"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1620.5,"endTime":1625.15,"body":"layer is repairing mercifully,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1620.5,"endTime":1625.15,"body":"and so there are examples of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1625.18,"endTime":1629.74,"body":"collaborative governance or even"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1625.18,"endTime":1629.74,"body":"nation state governance, that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1629.74,"endTime":1633.43,"body":"have had a profound impact on"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1629.74,"endTime":1633.43,"body":"outcomes, I think we had, that's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1633.43,"endTime":1635.41,"body":"where we have to look for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1633.43,"endTime":1635.41,"body":"solutions, I think that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1635.8300000000002,"endTime":1639.13,"body":"investors are asset managers or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1635.8300000000002,"endTime":1639.13,"body":"companies will continue to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1639.13,"endTime":1642.94,"body":"operate based on the incentives"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1639.13,"endTime":1642.94,"body":"of the system that they operate"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1642.94,"endTime":1647.6200000000001,"body":"in. And our current system"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1642.94,"endTime":1647.6200000000001,"body":"argues for growth, and argues"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1647.6200000000001,"endTime":1654.0700000000002,"body":"for enhanced profitability. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1647.6200000000001,"endTime":1654.0700000000002,"body":"so CEOs whose 10 years ever"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1654.0700000000002,"endTime":1656.8,"body":"shorter are going to continue to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1654.0700000000002,"endTime":1656.8,"body":"optimize against the current"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1656.8,"endTime":1660.94,"body":"system. If the rules change the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1656.8,"endTime":1660.94,"body":"system, then they'll optimize"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1660.94,"endTime":1663.76,"body":"against the new rules. So if a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1660.94,"endTime":1663.76,"body":"rule change says, all of a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1663.76,"endTime":1666.01,"body":"sudden, you're gonna have to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1663.76,"endTime":1666.01,"body":"internalize externalities,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1666.01,"endTime":1669.8200000000002,"body":"you're gonna have to pay for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1666.01,"endTime":1669.8200000000002,"body":"pollution, then no, minimize"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1669.8200000000002,"endTime":1673.96,"body":"pollution. And the transition to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1669.8200000000002,"endTime":1673.96,"body":"renewable energy will happen"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1673.96,"endTime":1677.0800000000002,"body":"faster. And the good news is,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1673.96,"endTime":1677.0800000000002,"body":"we're in a better position for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1677.0800000000002,"endTime":1680.0800000000002,"body":"that tap now than we've ever"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1677.0800000000002,"endTime":1680.0800000000002,"body":"been. Because as I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1680.0800000000002,"endTime":1685.54,"body":"prior, the costs of renewable"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1680.0800000000002,"endTime":1685.54,"body":"energy, and the capabilities of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1685.54,"endTime":1688.9,"body":"batteries are such that they"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1685.54,"endTime":1688.9,"body":"weren't, you know, 10 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1688.9,"endTime":1693.4,"body":"they're now economical. And so"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1688.9,"endTime":1693.4,"body":"we have an answer, at least as"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1693.4,"endTime":1696.73,"body":"relates to primary energy"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1693.4,"endTime":1696.73,"body":"generation. The question is, how"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1696.73,"endTime":1699.97,"body":"fastly? Can we engineer a"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1696.73,"endTime":1699.97,"body":"transition? That's in the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1699.97,"endTime":1704.02,"body":"benefit of all stakeholders. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1699.97,"endTime":1704.02,"body":"I think in order to do that, we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1704.02,"endTime":1708.97,"body":"need to have better policy, we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1704.02,"endTime":1708.97,"body":"need to stop subsidizing fossil"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1708.97,"endTime":1711.94,"body":"fuels at the trillions of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1708.97,"endTime":1711.94,"body":"dollars levels that were fought"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1711.97,"endTime":1716.8,"body":"we're doing today, globally, I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1711.97,"endTime":1716.8,"body":"think we need to put a price on"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1716.8,"endTime":1721.99,"body":"carbon. I think we need to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1716.8,"endTime":1721.99,"body":"continue to support with"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1721.99,"endTime":1726.13,"body":"government incentives, renewable"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1721.99,"endTime":1726.13,"body":"energy and batteries, we need to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1726.13,"endTime":1730.3600000000001,"body":"probably also think more clearly"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1726.13,"endTime":1730.3600000000001,"body":"about how we measure success and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1730.3600000000001,"endTime":1735.43,"body":"progress as societies, not just"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1730.3600000000001,"endTime":1735.43,"body":"as companies. But you know, we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1735.43,"endTime":1740.26,"body":"bow at the altar of GDP today,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1735.43,"endTime":1740.26,"body":"which is a fine measure, but"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1740.26,"endTime":1743.26,"body":"it's not a comprehensive"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1740.26,"endTime":1743.26,"body":"measure. And the OECD has"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1743.26,"endTime":1746.68,"body":"recommended a measure like"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1743.26,"endTime":1746.68,"body":"wellness, to think about, you"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1746.68,"endTime":1750.67,"body":"know, societal progress. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1746.68,"endTime":1750.67,"body":"given that we live on a finite"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1750.67,"endTime":1754.69,"body":"planet. And given that we're"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1750.67,"endTime":1754.69,"body":"approaching fast approaching 10"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1754.69,"endTime":1758.47,"body":"billion people, I think we have"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1754.69,"endTime":1758.47,"body":"hard decisions and choices to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1758.47,"endTime":1760.75,"body":"make about how we measure"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1758.47,"endTime":1760.75,"body":"success."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1760.8700000000001,"endTime":1764.44,"body":"Are you optimistic"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1760.8700000000001,"endTime":1764.44,"body":"for our future?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1764.92,"endTime":1767.8300000000002,"body":"Well, I have"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1764.92,"endTime":1767.8300000000002,"body":"children, and so I can't not be"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1767.8300000000002,"endTime":1772.45,"body":"hopeful. At the same time, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1767.8300000000002,"endTime":1772.45,"body":"clear eyed, and the problems"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1772.45,"endTime":1775.81,"body":"aren't getting worse. The"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1772.45,"endTime":1775.81,"body":"environmental problems without"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1775.81,"endTime":1779.8,"body":"question, as I mentioned before,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1775.81,"endTime":1779.8,"body":"I talked about carbon, but we"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1779.8,"endTime":1784.24,"body":"could talk about a number of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1779.8,"endTime":1784.24,"body":"other measures as well. And that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1784.24,"endTime":1791.5,"body":"is the effect of compounding"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1784.24,"endTime":1791.5,"body":"math. I mean, simply if you grow"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1791.5,"endTime":1796.21,"body":"population by 1%, a year or one"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1791.5,"endTime":1796.21,"body":"and a half percent a year, and"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1796.3600000000001,"endTime":1800.77,"body":"you also grow purchasing power"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1796.3600000000001,"endTime":1800.77,"body":"because of either expansion of"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1800.77,"endTime":1804.64,"body":"GDP growth or deflation in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1800.77,"endTime":1804.64,"body":"certain categories. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1804.64,"endTime":1808.54,"body":"the math just gets hard. You"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1804.64,"endTime":1808.54,"body":"know, the, in the space I'm"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1808.54,"endTime":1813.49,"body":"from, which is, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1808.54,"endTime":1813.49,"body":"apparel or fashion space today,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1814.39,"endTime":1819.46,"body":"we probably produce twice as"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1814.39,"endTime":1819.46,"body":"many garments as we did 20 years"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1819.46,"endTime":1822.73,"body":"ago. And so we've had all this"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1819.46,"endTime":1822.73,"body":"conversation over the last 20"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1822.73,"endTime":1826.93,"body":"years about things like bio"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1822.73,"endTime":1826.93,"body":"based materials and new business"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1826.93,"endTime":1831.22,"body":"systems. And rental and reuse"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1826.93,"endTime":1831.22,"body":"and circularity and renewable"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1831.22,"endTime":1834.22,"body":"and all these things. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1831.22,"endTime":1834.22,"body":"we're making twice as much"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1834.22,"endTime":1838.6000000000001,"body":"stuff. And if you run the math"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1834.22,"endTime":1838.6000000000001,"body":"forward 10 years, just looking"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1838.6000000000001,"endTime":1841.1200000000001,"body":"at things like population growth"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1838.6000000000001,"endTime":1841.1200000000001,"body":"and GDP growth, because of an"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1841.1200000000001,"endTime":1844.15,"body":"increasing number of people who"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1841.1200000000001,"endTime":1844.15,"body":"are making it to the middle"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1844.15,"endTime":1847.1200000000001,"body":"class, you know, we will"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1844.15,"endTime":1847.1200000000001,"body":"increase production by another"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1847.1200000000001,"endTime":1852.73,"body":"50%. And so we need"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1847.1200000000001,"endTime":1852.73,"body":"intervention, which is much more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1852.73,"endTime":1857.3500000000001,"body":"aggressive in order to live"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1852.73,"endTime":1857.3500000000001,"body":"within our planetary boundaries."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1857.95,"endTime":1859.99,"body":"We are coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1857.95,"endTime":1859.99,"body":"towards the end of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1859.99,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"now can Is there any question I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1859.99,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"haven't asked that you wish I"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1868.06,"body":"had? Are there any topic we've"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1868.06,"body":"not touched on that you think"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1868.06,"endTime":1870.1000000000001,"body":"it's important for people to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1868.06,"endTime":1870.1000000000001,"body":"think about?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1871.239,"endTime":1873.1290000000001,"body":"Well, one thing"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1871.239,"endTime":1873.1290000000001,"body":"we've sort of touched on, but I"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1873.1290000000001,"endTime":1876.969,"body":"probably wasn't clear enough is"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1873.1290000000001,"endTime":1876.969,"body":"I mentioned before that we're"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1876.969,"endTime":1880.779,"body":"talking about the ESG movement."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1876.969,"endTime":1880.779,"body":"There's a focus on two things."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1880.779,"endTime":1883.689,"body":"One is alpha or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1880.779,"endTime":1883.689,"body":"financial performance and others"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1883.689,"endTime":1886.809,"body":"impact. And I talked about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1883.689,"endTime":1886.809,"body":"impact. Some I didn't talk much"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1886.809,"endTime":1889.509,"body":"about alpha, which is the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1886.809,"endTime":1889.509,"body":"financial piece of it, maybe"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1889.509,"endTime":1891.789,"body":"because I'm less concerned about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1889.509,"endTime":1891.789,"body":"that I'm more concerned about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1891.789,"endTime":1895.929,"body":"the planet. But I would say that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1891.789,"endTime":1895.929,"body":"there have been, as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1895.929,"endTime":1900.249,"body":"1000s, of studies done to look"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1895.929,"endTime":1900.249,"body":"at whether investing in high ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1900.249,"endTime":1904.449,"body":"companies delivers alpha. And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1900.249,"endTime":1904.449,"body":"about two thirds of those"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1904.449,"endTime":1909.3990000000001,"body":"studies say likely that there's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1904.449,"endTime":1909.3990000000001,"body":"some benefit, and asset managers"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1909.3990000000001,"endTime":1912.3690000000001,"body":"have touted those academic"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1909.3990000000001,"endTime":1912.3690000000001,"body":"studies, his rationale for why"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1912.3690000000001,"endTime":1916.3890000000001,"body":"one should invest in ESG assets."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1912.3690000000001,"endTime":1916.3890000000001,"body":"And I would just be careful on"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1916.3890000000001,"endTime":1921.6390000000001,"body":"that interpreting that outcome."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1916.3890000000001,"endTime":1921.6390000000001,"body":"Because it's not clear whether"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1921.6390000000001,"endTime":1924.939,"body":"that relationship is causative"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1921.6390000000001,"endTime":1924.939,"body":"or correlated, or said"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1924.939,"endTime":1928.3890000000001,"body":"differently. Is the benefit"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1924.939,"endTime":1928.3890000000001,"body":"financially, because the"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1928.3890000000001,"endTime":1933.699,"body":"companies are high ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1928.3890000000001,"endTime":1933.699,"body":"companies? Or is it because ESG"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1933.699,"endTime":1936.999,"body":"and performance are both"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1933.699,"endTime":1936.999,"body":"correlated with management? And"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1936.999,"endTime":1939.309,"body":"they're just well managed"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1936.999,"endTime":1939.309,"body":"companies? Right? And if in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1939.309,"endTime":1941.829,"body":"fact, they're just well managed"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1939.309,"endTime":1941.829,"body":"companies that are we looking at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1941.829,"endTime":1945.279,"body":"the wrong signal? I would argue"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1941.829,"endTime":1945.279,"body":"probably the answer is probably"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1945.309,"endTime":1950.739,"body":"yes to that. And so I just think"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1945.309,"endTime":1950.739,"body":"it's, we have to be careful"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1950.739,"endTime":1954.939,"body":"about not confusing causation"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1950.739,"endTime":1954.939,"body":"with correlation, when it comes"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1954.939,"endTime":1956.559,"body":"to looking at ESG."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1956.919,"endTime":1960.429,"body":"Sure, I mean, it"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1956.919,"endTime":1960.429,"body":"stands to reason that if you are"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1960.429,"endTime":1963.189,"body":"measuring and reporting on ESG,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1960.429,"endTime":1963.189,"body":"you have a very, you have a"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1963.189,"endTime":1967.209,"body":"better handle on where, you"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1963.189,"endTime":1967.209,"body":"know, waste is happening in your"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1967.209,"endTime":1969.669,"body":"organization, and you're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1967.209,"endTime":1969.669,"body":"optimizing against it. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1969.669,"endTime":1971.319,"body":"that makes a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":1969.669,"endTime":1971.319,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1971.92,"endTime":1974.38,"body":"Yeah, you have more"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1971.92,"endTime":1974.38,"body":"bandwidth also to think about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1974.41,"endTime":1978.3400000000001,"body":"risks and tending to risks that"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1974.41,"endTime":1978.3400000000001,"body":"are risks to intangible assets,"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1978.3400000000001,"endTime":1981.67,"body":"like your brand, or operating"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1978.3400000000001,"endTime":1981.67,"body":"risks from weather events, or"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1981.67,"endTime":1984.8500000000001,"body":"things like that. And so I do"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1981.67,"endTime":1984.8500000000001,"body":"think there's a correlation"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1984.8500000000001,"endTime":1989.23,"body":"between the two, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1984.8500000000001,"endTime":1989.23,"body":"ESG being the causative factor."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1989.5,"endTime":1992.53,"body":"I've just written a paper about"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1989.5,"endTime":1992.53,"body":"this that will be published in"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1992.53,"endTime":1995.6200000000001,"body":"the next week or so an"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1992.53,"endTime":1995.6200000000001,"body":"institutional investor, that's"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1995.6200000000001,"endTime":2003.15,"body":"called the ESG, fantasy, linking"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":1995.6200000000001,"endTime":2003.15,"body":"ESG to planetary impact. And for"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2003.15,"endTime":2006.24,"body":"those of your listeners that are"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2003.15,"endTime":2006.24,"body":"interested, I'd point them"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2006.27,"endTime":2008.1000000000001,"body":"hopefully to Article."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2008.7,"endTime":2010.6200000000001,"body":"Oh, super, super"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2008.7,"endTime":2010.6200000000001,"body":"video, send me the link when"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2010.6200000000001,"endTime":2013.14,"body":"it's up, and I'll include it in"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2010.6200000000001,"endTime":2013.14,"body":"the show notes. I will indeed,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2013.5900000000001,"endTime":2019.6200000000001,"body":"fantastic. Can if people want to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2013.5900000000001,"endTime":2019.6200000000001,"body":"know more about yourself our ESG"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2019.65,"endTime":2023.25,"body":"or even Timberland or any of the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2019.65,"endTime":2023.25,"body":"topics we discussed today? Where"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2023.25,"endTime":2024.24,"body":"would you have me direct them?"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2024.63,"endTime":2026.79,"body":"I think you could"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2024.63,"endTime":2026.79,"body":"find me either on LinkedIn where"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2026.79,"endTime":2033.0,"body":"I have a profile or you can"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2026.79,"endTime":2033.0,"body":"email me at Ken Dodd pucker at"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2033.03,"endTime":2037.05,"body":"tuffs t UFT s.edu."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2037.769,"endTime":2039.329,"body":"Ken, that's been"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2037.769,"endTime":2039.329,"body":"great. Thanks again for coming"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2039.329,"endTime":2040.1390000000001,"body":"on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2040.47,"endTime":2041.55,"body":"Thanks for having"},{"speaker":"Ken Pucker","startTime":2040.47,"endTime":2041.55,"body":"me, Tom."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2042.299,"endTime":2044.6390000000001,"body":"Okay, we've come to"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2042.299,"endTime":2044.6390000000001,"body":"the end of the show. Thanks,"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2044.6390000000001,"endTime":2048.029,"body":"everyone for listening. If you'd"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2044.6390000000001,"endTime":2048.029,"body":"like to know more about climate"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2048.0589999999997,"endTime":2052.889,"body":"21 Feel free to drop me an email"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2048.0589999999997,"endTime":2052.889,"body":"to Tom Raftery at SAP comm or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2053.0389999999998,"endTime":2056.489,"body":"connect with me on LinkedIn or"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2053.0389999999998,"endTime":2056.489,"body":"Twitter. If you'd like to show"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2056.489,"endTime":2058.649,"body":"please don't forget to subscribe"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2056.489,"endTime":2058.649,"body":"to it in your podcast"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2058.649,"endTime":2061.5589999999997,"body":"application of choice to get new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2058.649,"endTime":2061.5589999999997,"body":"episodes as soon as they're"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2061.5589999999997,"endTime":2065.429,"body":"published. Also, please don't"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2061.5589999999997,"endTime":2065.429,"body":"forget to rate and review the"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2065.429,"endTime":2070.109,"body":"podcast it really does help new"},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2065.429,"endTime":2070.109,"body":"people to find the show. Thanks."},{"speaker":"Tom Raftery","startTime":2070.949,"endTime":2071.879,"body":"Catch you all next time."}]}