The Sustainability Imperative With Tom Raftery

Welcome to the 50th episode of the Climate 21 podcast. In this instalment, due to a scheduling snafu, I was without a guest, so I took the opportunity to talk about a recent keynote talk I have delivered now a few times to phenomenal feedback - The Sustainability Imperative.

In this talk I go through the roots of my passion for sustainability, the factors making action on sustainability increasingly important, progressive happening in the fields of Energy, and Transportation, and practical steps you and/or your organisation can take to reduce your emissions.

Hopefully this was an interesting episode of the podcast and you learned some. Next week back to our regular interviewee podcast :) 

If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - feel free to leave me a voice message over on my SpeakPipe page, head on over to the Climate 21 Podcast Forum, or just send it to me as a direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. Audio messages will get played (unless you specifically ask me not to).

And if you want to know more about any of SAP's Sustainability solutions, head on over to www.sap.com/sustainability, and if you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover the show. Thanks.

And remember, stay healthy, stay safe, stay sane!

Music credit - Intro and Outro music for this podcast was composed, played, and produced by my daughter Luna Juniper

Podcast subscribers
I'd like to sincerely thank this podcast's amazing subscribers:

• Anita Krajnc
• Cecilia Skarupa
• Ben Gross
• Jerry Sweeney
• Andreas Werner
• Stephen Carroll
• Roger Arnold

And remember you too can Subscribe to the Podcast - it is really easy and hugely important as it will enable me to continue to create more excellent Climate Confident episodes like this one, as well as give you access to the entire back catalog of Climate Confident episodes.

Contact
If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - get in touch via direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn.

If you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover the show.

Credits
Music credits - Intro by Joseph McDade, and Outro music for this podcast was composed, played, and produced by my daughter Luna Juniper

Chapters

• 0:42 Intro
• 2:04 How I got into sustainability
• 5:34 The growing importance of sustainability
• 9:04 Other stakeholders becoming involved
• 13:48 Changes happening in the Energy sector
• 22:25 The transportation sector
• 27:38 Other sectors (cement, steel, aviation)
• 30:04 What actions can I/we take?
• 34:42 Unavoidably radical future
• 37:08 Outro

Transcript

Tom Raftery: 0:03

The number of people who die every year as a direct result of fossil fuel pollution is just think in your own head. Now listening to this, what will be the high the high end number that you would put on the number of people who die every year as a result of fossil fuel pollution? You know, talking about fine particle pollution, the likes of the pm 2.5 pm 1pm 10. The number is 8.7 million people a year. Good morning, good afternoon or good evening wherever you are in the world. This is the climate 21 podcast the number one podcast showcasing best practices in climate emissions reductions. And I'm your host global vice president for SAP Tom Raftery. Climate 21 is the name of an initiative by SAP to allow our customers calculate, report and reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. In this climate 21 podcast, I will showcase best practices and thought leadership by SAP, by our customers, by our partners and by our competitors if their game in climate emissions reductions. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast in your podcast app of choice to be sure you don't miss any episodes. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Climate 21 podcast. My name is Tom Raftery with SAP. And with me on the show today, we have no one except me. I'm afraid the guest I had lined up for today, dropped out at the last minute had to reschedule. So he'll be coming on in a later edition. Don't worry, but unfortunately couldn't make the recording. So I was left with the whole schedule. So you are stuck with me for today's show. Sorry about that. Okay. It's all good, though. It's all good. Because I've been doing this talk at a number of events where I've given this as a keynote and I figured this would be a good time to try this out on this audience here who listen to this podcast, you will have heard me mentioned some parts of this in previous podcasts. But I haven't ever put it all together for this podcast. So I'm going to try it now you can let me know what you think, as always drop me an email Tom raftery@sap.com. And, yeah, let me know what you think. Basically, I've called the talk the sustainability imperative. And it's talking about how sustainability is no longer a nice to have for organizations, it's a must have and is only going to increase in its importance as we go on. Now we start off talking about a little bit of background about myself how I got into sustainability. And a lot of that is down to my dad, actually. You know, when I was a kid growing up in Cork in Ireland, he would take me to the countryside, most weekends and you know, we go to nature and I'd see the animals and I got a deep love for nature, which then was reflected when I went to university and I wanted to study biology because that was you know, where my real passion was. I was good enough. I was looking at as well in secondary school to have a really good biology teacher, Rory Murray in Bally thin. And yeah, I went into University and did science and plant science was what I specialized in molecular biology. And then I joined a four year Ph. D program project studying biological control. So you know, real love of nature, I worked some of the summers in that time in a wildlife park as well for a wildlife park place that's dedicated to the to the breeding of endangered species. So I've worked closely with scimitar horned Oryx with all kinds of monkeys, you know, fabulous, fabulous experience. And while I was studying for the PhD, I took up this hobby of computers and I started teaching computers to the undergrads and the university and slowly the computer side of things started to take over. And I after four years in the PhD, I dropped out of it to do computers because I was I got so into it. And I started a computer company and you know what, that one well for a while, but now I'm in the absolute fortunate position where I get to combine my two passions of sustainability and technology. You know, it's absolutely ideal. Unfortunately, my Dad is no longer with us. It's not that he died. He was diagnosed in 2010 with Alzheimer's. And so, you know, 2021 11 years later, there's not much left of him, unfortunately. But, you know, I'm an optimist. I'm a glass half full person. So looking on the bright side of things, at least he has no idea what's going on in the world in the last 18 months, he has no idea that, you know, COVID has been around and has killed so many people, and left some so many other people with debilitating, lifelong injuries. So that's good. But speaking of COVID, you know how it has changed the world over the last year and a half, nearly two years now. The world has changed enormously in other ways, too, which may have flown below your radar. Because of all the COVID stories that have that have been out there, there have been some incredible changes. The European Union, for example, passed a law in June of last year, mandating that all 27 nations of the EU reduce their emissions 55% by 2030. And that's a massively ambitious target, that's going to be really hard to get to just for context. In 2020, during the pandemic, we dropped our emissions 7%. And they went back up in 2021 by 5%. So we've got an overall reduction of 2%, in the last two years, and we got to get them down. Well, we don't have to get them down to 55%. Because we're already it's against our 1990 baseline. And we're already 24% down against that, but we still have to get them down another 31% by 2030, that's a little over eight years away, that's hugely ambitious target and lots of things are going to have to change, there's going to have to be systemic changes for us to reach that target. And it's not just the EU, the US, under the Biden administration have said they wanted to cut their emissions 52% by 2030. Now, I know, Biden administration has elections coming up next year, might not last, etc, etc. But it still speaks to a trend. And it's not just the EU and the US, China have said that they want to get to net zero by 2060. But they've also said that they want their emissions to peak by 2030. And that they want to have all of their regions source 40% of their power from renewables by 2030. So again, huge changes happening there in the next eight years. They've already for the first time, this year, in 2021, China's non fossil fuel power capacity has outstripped coal power for the first time. And again, that's that speaks to a trend, the non fossil fuel power capacity, renewables, hydro etc, are on the up and up and up. Coal is kind of plateauing there and will start to go down. We hope. That's it. That's the hope, but it should do soon, at least. And China at the cup cup 26, China and the US have announced a plan to work together on cutting emissions, which is huge. I mean, they're at loggerheads for most things, but they see eye to eye on this. And if they work together on this, who knows what they'll be able to achieve. Saudi Arabia, not known for their renewables ambitions are, you know, not known for their sustainability initiatives. They've said that they aim to get 50% of their energy from renewables by 2030. And they're going to be planting 10 billion trees, again, in an effort to get their emissions down. You know, that just from Saudi Arabia, right, there speaks to massive, massive change. If you think about all these changes over these big economic bloc's and some of the outcomes from cup 26, you gotta believe that the global economy is about to become the climate economy. And other stakeholders who are getting involved in this now is the judicial system and countries, for example, it just a few weeks ago, and on the 14th of October, court, the courts in France ordered the French government to meet its own greenhouse gas reduction targets. You know, there's a court case taken against the government and the government lost, they're now going to have to meet their own targets, the targets, they set themselves, which they were not meeting and it's not just France, we've had similar rulings recently in Germany and the Netherlands. The US Treasury has said they're going to oppose development bank's financing fossil fuel projects. And similarly, China has said they're not going to fund new coal fired power projects outside of China. Previously, they had done this as a way to exert their influence in countries outside of China. They're stopping doing that. From now they announced that into September of this year. So, you know, lots and lots and lots of changes. And if we look at things like the finance area, huge changes there as well, the cost of capital now for fossil fuels is going up and up. And the cost of capital for renewable energy is coming down and down. This will have major implications. The cost of capital No, for offshore oil is over 20%. For liquid natural gas, LNG, it's over 10%. Whereas for offshore wind, onshore wind solar, it's below 5% and dropping for the natural gas. And for the offshore oil, it's going up, you know, the trend is up and up. And that's because of the inherent risk, you know, if you've got the risk of a carbon bubble, so do you want to invest money in something like offshore oil, gas, or coal, which due to legislation could be shut down in five to 10 years, hopefully, hopefully, closer to five, you know, where are you going to get a return on that investment, it's not going to happen, or it's, it's an extremely risky proposition. And because it's a risky proposition, the cost of capital goes up. And therefore, these projects are going to find it harder and harder to get backing. If we look at the another outcome from cop 26, was GE fans, GE fans is the Glasgow financial alliance for net zero and amazing achievement, they have now got 450 firms across 45 countries who have committed to transforming the economy for netzero, they've committed to only financing netzero projects and not financing fossil fuel projects, and how much money have these 450 firms got access to $130 trillion. It's an amazing amount of money. And that kind of money. That kind of money can make a difference, you know, so when you've got that kind of money, moving away from fossil fuels, and moving into the clean energy space, that'll make a difference, guaranteed. other stakeholders you got to think of are the likes of the employee activists who are changing companies from within, companies now want to have a purposeful mission. Because, I mean, I had Ken pucker a few weeks back on this podcast, and he talked about how, when he was CEO for Timberland, they could attract incredibly, highly qualified employees, because of the reputation for having a purpose for being strong and sustainability. He said they could attract them and keep them. Because of this, people wanted to work for a company that had a purpose. And that's more and more of the case. Today. companies now that have a good purpose, a good story to tell on sustainability, are attracting the best and brightest, because increasingly, the younger generation wants to work for companies with a purpose. They want to feel like they're making a difference. And that's, that helps drop your recruitment and retention costs. And on the flip side of that, it also helps attract and keep higher quality customers. So you're attracting better customers, and you're attracting better employees on both sides. You're saving money in the employee side, and you're gaining money on the customer side. So huge, huge reasons there for companies to start to become more sustainable. And that will that will continue to happen as well. If we look at the changes that are happening in the energy space, shaken money, who was the OPEC oil minister in the 1980s very famously said that the Stone Age didn't end because we ran out of stone. And similarly, the oil age will end long before we run out of oil. And he was right. He was right, because that's what's happening today. Today, the oil age is ending. We see it already. You just got to look, peak oil happened around 2017 2018. The demand for oil is dropping and it's it's happening for economic reasons, not because people want to be more sustainable. They do sure but the economic if the economics don't, you know back that it's not going to happen. But now the economics backer, it is now cheaper to build new renewable generation than it is to fuel existing fossil fuel plants. This is an incredible landmark moment in the history of energy. It's not that it's cheaper to build new renewables than building new fossil fuel plants. No, it It's cheaper to build new renewables than it is to fuel existing fossil fuel plants. It's absolutely amazing. And as a result, you know, we're seeing more and more renewables being rolled out. And it's not just the renewables. It's also the storage of the energy created by those renewables, because as we all know, renewables are variable generators. So you got to have some, you know, way of backing them up. And one incredible way of doing it is using the likes of lithium ion batteries whose price has fallen over 90%, between 2010. And today, and the cost keeps falling. Its falling about five to 8% per annum, based on economies of scale, and based also on rights law, basically the experience curve. So the prices are dropping year on year on year. And not just that, but the energy density of those batteries is increasing as well. The energy density is going up five to 8%. Did I say five to 8%. For the price, no, the price is dropping, but 15% per year, year on year on year is the energy density sorry, that's going up five to 8%. year on year, the energy density of lithium ion batteries has tripled. Since 2010. So amazing, the market for these batteries is I hesitate to use the word explode talking about batteries. But the the market for these lithium ion batteries is set to explode. And that's just for stationary storage. And it will also be booming as well. These words of terrible I'm talking about also be booming as well, when we think about electric vehicles, for example, who's going to you know, the market for those are set to explode as well. So as a result of the falling costs of renewables, we're starting to see some major projects being rolled out. There's a project called Sun cable in the northern territories in Australia. And this is just one of several big ones Australia has several really big ones happening. But I'll talk about the sun cable one because it's a really interesting one. It's a solar and battery project, where they're building a 22 gigawatt solar plant backed by either a 36 or 42 gigawatt hour battery plant. They haven't settled on the final size of the battery plant yet but 22 gigawatts of solar. To put that in perspective, that's the output of 22 nuclear power plants. And nuclear power plant typically puts out one gigawatt, this is 22 gigawatts from solar. As I say that that'd be back it up with batteries. They're using it to power the city of Darwin. But they're also drawing a cable, three and a half 1000 kilometers north to power the city of Singapore who today is powered primarily by gas and oil, and they want to shift to renewables. So you know, unbelievable this, the the ambition of this project is phenomenal. And like I say it's one of several that are happening globally. Another one that's happening is in Kazakhstan. They're building a 45 gigawatt renewable plant, powered by wind and solar. So not just solar as the one in Australia is but wind and solar. And they're going to be using that to create green hydrogen, because they they figured there's going to be a huge global market for green hydrogen, and the market for green hydrogen is set to grow as well. We'll talk a little bit about that in a few minutes. But you know, and there are more they're talking about building a 30 gigawatt renewable Park in India as well, renewable Park using solar and wind again with batteries. So lots of these kind of projects starting to crop up because now they are becoming economic. One thing that's often missed in this conversation is pollution from fossil fuels. And, yes, this is the climate 21 podcast and I focus primarily on climate emissions. But pollution from fossil fuels is another thing that we need to talk about as well. And just this week, we've seen that the pollution from smog has shut down the city of Delhi, you know they've gone into lockdown. We're used to hearing about lockdown for COVID but they've gone into lockdown no because of the pollution from the transportation in the city, the 11 coal plants that are powering the city plus, you know, I know there's other factors like burning stubble farmers burning stubble and Diwali fireworks etc. But the 11 coal power plants have been shut down because of this. So you know this. And this might sound trivial, but to give you a really, really shocking statistic the number of people who die every year as a direct result Fossil fuel pollution is just think in your own head. Now listening to this, what will be the high the high end number that you would put on the number of people who die every year as a result of fossil fuel pollution? You know, talking about fine particle pollution, the likes of pm 2.5 pm 1pm 10. The number is 8.7 million people a year 8.7 million people a year die from fossil fuel pollution that's more than COVID has killed probably, because, you know, we, we probably don't have really accurate numbers and that it's probably under reported. But it's, I mean, COVID been going for almost two years now. This is 8.7 million people every year, who die from fossil fuel pollution. It's, and that's not counting, you know, the deaths from you know, wars, etc, over the last number of decades. So it's it's horrific, we really need to get off fossil fuels. And we are getting there. As I as I mentioned earlier, If we look at the transportation sector, that's been massively changed as well. I live here in Spain now. And I've been here since 2008. And when I moved here, first, my first car was a Toyota Prius. My filter for buying cars at the time, because, you know, sustainability was emissions. And the emissions from the Toyota Prius at the time were, if I remember correctly, but 117 grams co2 per kilometer. The next nearest was a Ford Focus C max at 119. So I went for the the Prius and, you know, held on to it for 10 years great, great car, it had an Eevee button on the dash, you could push which would allow it to go for something like half a kilometer, as long as you stayed below 25 kilometers an hour or so, you know, didn't really get you very far or very fast. But then in 2018, I switched to a Nissan LEAF, and the Nissan LEAF, fully electric car, fabulous, fabulous car. But it only had a range of 250 kilometers which living in the south of Spain as I do, where the charging infrastructure is poor, to put it politely. It was a bit of a compromise going to leave because you couldn't really go very far. Then earlier this year, I upgraded to a Volkswagen ID four. And the ID four has a range of depending on how I drive it. If I'm driving around town, it goes well over 500 kilometers. If I'm driving on the motorway, doing you know, 120 130 kilometers an hour, then it drops down to about 370 or so. But still, that was more than enough. I went on a summer holiday this year where I drove to a serious in the north of Spain, that's 850 kilometers away. Zero problems. It was actually fantastic because the hotel I stayed in and I was curious, had a free charger for guests. So I woke up every morning to a car that had another 500 kilometers range, you know free and gratis I was able to fill my tank every night free and gratis in the hotel stupendous. You can't get that with internal combustion engine vehicles. So more of that I say. And the transition to electric vehicles is happening at a at a pace. You know, people don't quite realize potentially Norway have said that they're banning the sale of fossil fuel vehicles in 2025. But the trends in Norway say that they're actually going to get there as early as April next year. There are over 90% electric vehicles on new sales now and they're heading towards 100 If the trend keeps going to be there early next year. And in Western Europe as a whole, zero emission passenger car registrations achieved a new record in September of 16% 16%, fully battery electric vehicles. That figure in 2019 was two and a half percent. In 2020. It was 6.7%. In 2021, it reached 16%. So you can see that's the bottom of an S curve. And it's kicking up really fast that the horse has left the stable folks, that's not going back anytime soon. And if we, if we switch off personal transportation on to public transportation, which is really what we need to electrify as well, I love this quote from Enrique Penalosa was the former mayor of Bogota. He said a developed country is not a place where poor people have cars. It's where rich people use public transportation. And to that end, buses, for example, are starting to go fully electric. The fully electric bus fleet globally is well over 600,000 buses now. The majority of those are operating in China. But you know, the London electric bus fleet is now the largest in Europe, for example. And it's not just buses. London's largest taxi firm, Addison Lee, are now buying 4000 ad fours from Volkswagen they They want to go fully electric for their taxi fleet by 2023. This is the end of 2021 virtually so year and a couple of months time they want to be fully electric with their whole taxi fleet. That's absolutely incredible. And it's not just you know, buses and taxis trucks are going electric as well. You know, all the big truck manufacturers are looking at electrifying their fleets, Volkswagen or going electric valve already have vav already have three different types of fully electric truck on the market. Even delivery vans rivian, for example, received an order for 100,000 Electric vans from Amazon. Now Amazon are a big investor in them. So they would, wouldn't they, but it speaks to a trend there as well. And I see it here in Spain, the delivery vehicles from Amazon now four fifths of the time they come to my door, it's a fully electric E-Citaro the other 1/5 is some that the poor driver is driving an old Citroen you know, fossil fuel vehicle, but most of the time now it's the E-Citaro haven't gotten the Rivians here yet. But you know, that's that's the way that's going and I love seeing it. Ferries are going electric ships are going electric. Maersk have said that they want their containerships to start using green methanol. So that's happening in that space as well. And if we look into other sectors, the cement sector is, you know, a huge, huge emitter globally. But again, I had an episode of this podcast a number of months ago at this point, I recognized I had Professor Volker sic on talking about how they're starting to create cement using co2 as an as a as an ingredient to make the cement and the resultant concrete from that is bendable, not I mean, can't make a kind of a U shape out of it. But it's it's more flexible than then typical concrete, which means you don't need to use as much rebar steel in to reinforce it, which is a win win because of course steel itself has a massive carbon footprint. And we starting to see things like Germany is now spending $6 billion to clean up steel production and start to make steel, fossil fuel free. Again, it's very hard to say ArcelorMittal, for example, in Germany are transitioning to have their German steel making plans to using green hydrogen, the kind of green hydrogen I talked about that's been made in Kazakhstan and in the 45 gigawatt plant that they're building in Kazakhstan. Volvo is the first car maker to explore making cars from fossil fuel free steel, using fossil fuel free steel from a company called SSAB. And SSAB delivered their first fossil fuel free steel to Volvo earlier this year in August. So that's starting and they say that they want, Volvo said that they wanted to be building all of their cars using this kind of steel in 2026. So not that far away. The aviation industry is changing as well. United Airlines earlier this year bought 119 seat fully electric planes from heart aerospace. Airbus is looking at their zero e plane, which is a blended wing plane, which still haven't decided how it's going to fly, whether it's hydrogen or electric, I suspect unless there's some huge change in technology, eventually the aviation industry will end up using sustainable aviation fuel, at least in the short term, longer term, unless there's that there may be some big breakthrough in energy density of batteries or something that will allow them to go fully, fully electric. What kind of actions should or could you and or your organization be taking? Because you know, at this point, some of you out there are going to be saying, well, what can I do? Or what should we be doing? You know, if I'm an employee, what should I be agitating that my company do? Well, there's a couple of very quick, easy wins you can go for. The first I would say is convert everything to electric, convert your transportation, to electric, convert your heating and cooling to electric, if you're doing cooking, converted to electric do not have any gas, any oil, any diesel, any petrol coming into your organization for anything, converted all to electric and then switch to a 100% renewable energy provider. Boom, right there. Low hanging fruit, huge, huge carbon savings, apart from anything else, apart from the carbon savings that you get you you send a huge demand signal as well. You know, these kind of things are important too. You need to start measuring your emissions you need to set targets and report against those targets. At At least annually, quarterly better, but at least annually, so set emissions reduction targets, measure your emissions and report against those targets. Rollout Circular Economy projects, you know, do not be throwing things away, there's no such place as a way away is not a place when you say I'm going to throw this away away is not a place. You know, waste is just something that is misplaced. It's something that's in the wrong place, there's no such thing as waste, or there should not be, have it be a raw material for something else become more circular. And I think people often don't realize the emissions reductions you can achieve by becoming more circular. That's definitely something that that can work in your favor, then you need to require emissions reporting in all your RFPs and RFQs is a hugely, hugely important, if you are asking your suppliers, if they are tendering for a project that you're putting out there, they need to say what the emissions consequences of that will be. And in some cases that will require working with your suppliers to help them figure out how to do that. You should set an internal carbon price for any projects that you do internally, not just for travel, but for anything office refurbishments anything at all, decide what the carbon implications are going to be of that project, have a price internally under carbon. And then every project has to pay the carbon implications of that project to your internal sustainability organization. And the sustainability organization can take that money because it should be ring fenced for them. And they can do things like they can buy car chargers and put them out in your parking lot, or, you know, purchase renewable energy or whatever it is. And finally, one that could have a very outsized result from this. The last one I recommend is tie, executive remuneration to emissions reductions, KPIs, make the bonuses, make the bonuses be tied to emissions reduction KPIs. Right there, you'll start to see some big shifts in behavior, I reckon. Okay. Last thoughts. We've said that the 2020s are going to be the decade of action. And that's true. Yep, we're gonna, there's going to be a lot of action in this decade, because we've got to get to that 55% reduction. But here's the thing. That 55% is going to be the low hanging fruit, which means the next 45% will require Oh, a whole lot more work to get out of the system, which means the 2030s are going to be the decade of war, a more action. And that'll get even more low hanging fruit, which will leave the real, real hard work for the 2040s to get that last bit of emissions out of the system, which means the 2040s are going to be the decade of wow, that's a crapload of action. I came across this spectacular quote from Professor Kevin Anderson, where he said, We face an unavoidably radical future and on unavoidably radical future, think about that for a second. And why? Why do we face an unavoidably radical future when he goes on to say, we either continue with rising emissions and reap the radical repercussions of severe climate change? Our we acknowledged that we have a choice and we pursue radical emissions reductions. Either way, there is no longer a non radical option. He made this quote in 2014, guys. So now having heard all that, having heard what's happening, having heard of what you and or your organization can and should be doing, now is the time now is the time for you to stand up and act for your organization to stand up and be counted. Because we have to roll up our sleeves now. We've all all of us got to become climate heroes. Thank you. Okay. Tom, that's been great. So if you've stayed this long in the in the podcast, congratulations. I hope I haven't bored everyone completely asleep. I will be back with regular programming next Wednesday with a real live actual guest talking about real life expert stuff rather than me just mouthing off for however long it's been 30 minutes or so 35 minutes at this point, I think. So. Don't touch that dial. Do come back next Wednesday for another exciting episode of the climate 21 podcast with an actual real guest. Alright. Thanks, everyone for tuning in, and we'll talk to you soon. Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about climate 21 Feel free to drop me an email to Tom raftery@sap.com or connect with me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you'd like the show, please don't forget to subscribe to it and your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast it really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.