Once Saved Always Saved And Other Coffee Cup Theology

Slogans can be comforting until real life presses on them. Pastor Ryan and Pastor Tim sit down after a full week of VBS to talk about a question almost every Christian has felt at some point: how can I have assurance of salvation without settling for “coffee cup theology”? We dig into why phrases like once saved always saved, faith over fear, and God will never give you more than you can handle often carry a kernel of truth, yet still flatten the Bible’s nuance and can even create a false sense of security.

From our Signs and Glory series in the Gospel of John, we camp out in John 10 where Jesus calls Himself the gate and the Good Shepherd. That image shifts the conversation from “Did I say the right prayer once?” to “Do I have a relationship with Jesus where I hear His voice and respond?” Along the way, we hold several difficult Scriptures side by side, including Jesus’ warning that some will say “Lord, Lord” and still be unknown to Him, the promise that no one can snatch His sheep from His hand, and the sobering warnings in Hebrews about those who walk away.

We also get practical and pastoral: why doubts and questions don’t automatically mean you’re not His, what conviction can reveal about your heart, and why praying again can be humility instead of weakness. Then we reframe abundant life away from prosperity assumptions and back toward what Jesus actually offers: life with Him starting now and carrying into eternity.

If this conversation helps you, subscribe for more, share it with a friend who’s stuck in fear or confusion, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What slogan do you think needs the most unlearning?

Transcript

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Welcome Back After VBS

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of the Midweek Podcast, brought to you by a Fresh Wind Church. Each week, our team brings you new content to help you take steps towards Jesus and discover more in Christ. Today's episode is hosted by Pastor Ryan.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast. Pastor Ryan joined as always with Pastor Tim, and we are in week 11 of our series Signs and Glory, where we're walking through the Gospel of John. Tim, last week, it was probably a little bit of a VPS hangover. We didn't get a didn't get a chance to record the podcast last week. So this is going to be a little bit of a double hitter today.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yeah, I went I went to bed uh Monday and Tuesday. And as I got to my room to go to bed, I thought, oh, the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Yeah. VBS, I think, just about wore all of us out. Um but man, what a great week that was, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:10

We had a great time uh with the kids. We seen the Lord move and um all that work uh we put into that, we we saw some souls saved. And of course, that is our that is our longing is for kids to understand uh the gospel of Jesus Christ and and confess Jesus as their savior and Lord. Uh and that's what we're gonna be talking about on the podcast today. What does that mean? What happens and um basically who's who, yeah, which is a very difficult uh thing in our slogan-oriented Christianity now.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Man, that's uh there's a lot of that in uh Christendom, at least in the American church. I don't I don't know if it's you know gone across the ocean yet, but over here, man, we love our slogans, and so we got all kinds of them. And man, I I've told you this before. Um I think a lot of those slogans have come to identify, you know, like if a church has a statement of beliefs, you can read ours. It's on our website. If you take our partnership class, we go over it. But every person kind of just through experience and you know, over the years, their own study, whatever, they kind of develop this statement of beliefs that they have. I think a lot of those slogans have made it out into a lot of people's personal statement of beliefs, right? For better or worse, and usually I think worse, because you and you've you've expressed this a lot. We we tend to you know dumb it down to the lowest common denominator. And so you get this one little phrase, and yeah, that's what this means. Well, no, there's a lot of nuance to how that phrase came about, but it gets on to people's statement of beliefs, and then when you have you know people like you and I stand up on a Sunday morning, we'll preach these sermons, and and I and I'm I'm using you and I, but I mean I think this is everywhere, yeah, epidemic all across the country. You're preaching against the I mean you might be preaching truth and it goes directly against someone's statement of beliefs, but they don't even recognize it that these two things are not congruent.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah, they can't be compatible. I think um more than that, you preach and you preach the word of God, and they hear their foundational theological slogan instead of the word of God. And uh that's kind of scary, especially for us as teachers. You know, Peter um he told us to look out for these uh false teachers because their freedom uh he says their freedom I should probably look it up. Second Peter chapter first Peter chapter two um something like

When Slogans Replace Scripture

SPEAKER_03 4:10

19. I'm gonna look it up. Talk, Ryan. Well, th these slogans, man, I I think it has been well we should we should give a few of them while I look this up.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Um you know we're gonna get into one for sure today, once saved, always saved.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Once saved, always saved. What does that mean and what did they mean by it? Um because there's a lot of truth to it, but let go and let God sometimes sometimes becomes uh passivity, um disguised with surrender, you know, that kind of thing. Um what's another good one?

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Um faith over fear. That's been a a big especially during COVID, that was everywhere. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

And those things have kernels of truth. Uh God will not let you uh have more than you can handle. That's not that's not about suffering, people. That's not about suffering. Uh how many times do we see in the Bible, have you suffered unto death yet? And no, that's about temptation. God will make a way out of your temptation, but not your suffering. And we rarely apply it that way, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

I just did um if you've listened to the podcast, you've heard me talk about it. You know, every night with our kids, we we open open the word of God and we, you know, have a passage. So that was the passage we were going through the other night talking about temptation, and God says, I'll give you a way out. Anytime you're tempted, it won't be beyond what you can bear, I'll give you a way out. But most of the time when you hear it in context, someone's really going through something. You know, life's been hard, they're suffering. Right. And even well-meaning Christians, well, God will never give you more than you can handle. Where is that? You know, uh, sometimes, I mean, imagine telling that to Job. Yeah. God will never give you more than you can handle, Job. Now, I mean, did Job remain faithful? He did, he did, but it nearly killed him. Uh, he lost everything, you know. And so even those things that we we come across, like I said, we they get kind of stuck in that statement of belief system in our head. Right. And then when you come to a church or you you're even reading scripture, whatever, that we kind of try to file it under these things, you know. Oh, that's kind of related to this, and it goes under here. And man, I a couple weeks ago at the forge, we were talking, and I was telling the guys, man, a lot of this is a whole lot more nuanced than just these couple statements.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Yeah, I'm gonna make a few statements um here in a minute that you're all gonna have to hold all at the same time. You don't get to choose because they're all in there, and uh so you don't, you don't, you they've got to be in your arms at the same time when we talk about what we're gonna talk about. It's funny, but we're gonna have to talk about something that this passage of scripture was not about. This passage of scripture was about false teachers and how the Pharisees have become false teachers. Now, you preached the week before about the guy getting thrown out of the synagogue, and this is the start of what Jesus is trying to say to him.

John 10 And The True Gate

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Look, you think you have power over the sheep, and you're kicking this guy out, but you are not the shepherds. I'm the shepherd. And uh Peter was saying that later on, he said uh in 2 Timothy chapter 2, verse 19, finally found it. While they promise liberty, they themselves are servants of corruption, for of whom a man is overcome, of the same he is brought in bondage. Now that's the KJV, which is killing me right now. That is just killing me. Okay. Read it for the normal people. Read it for the CSV. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them. So Peter's saying, this is your these are your spiritual leaders, and you've got to watch out for them. They're promising you freedom and they're slaves. And uh that's what Jesus was saying here. You Pharisees have become slaves and slave owners. You're not shepherds who's looking out for the sheep. Um, you're looking out for yourself in in this context. So that's what this uh passage of scripture is about. Uh the sheepfold. Um, and then he he gives that first example, and then he goes to the second example and says, I am the gate. Okay, you don't get to be a shepherd unless you come through me. You don't get access to the sheep unless you come through me. If you try to go over the wall, you're just a thief and a robber. No matter how good you talk, you're a thief. No matter how violent you are, you're a robber. So if you're gonna be an under-shepherd like you and I, um, and Jared and anybody else who calls himself pastor, which is a shepherd, we got to go through Jesus or we don't get access. And uh we become these guys who are trying to go over the wall and get the sheep to go around the gate. Remember, the opening is not the gate. Jesus is sleeping in the opening. He's the gate. And I it's important to grab a hold of that as we go forward. Because listen, if you're going to a church that is a slogan Christianity church, you need to be careful because there's some there's some heavy things that take a little bit more thinking than once saved, always saved, or God will never give you more than you can handle. So let's let's we're gonna focus on on this point because we could be here for three hours because Ryan wants us to teach all this stuff in one sitting on Sunday. So we're gonna we're gonna jump into this. So

Four Hard Truths About Salvation

SPEAKER_03 10:29

the first thing you need to understand, now get ready. Don't stop listening when you hear me say this because you won't get the context, the nuance that Ryan was talking about. We are not saved.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

What?

SPEAKER_03 10:49

What does uh my favorite verse in the whole Bible, Romans 10, 9, and 10. If thou shalt confess with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in thine heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Well, you mean I'm not saved right now? You're regenerated, you're sealed with the Holy Spirit for that salvation that's gonna happen at the great white throne of judgment. When you die, you're gonna go into the your spirit's gonna go into the presence of the Lord and you're gonna stay there until the judgment, and then at the judgment you will be saved. Okay? So let's, if we're gonna lay these foundations out, let's lay them out correctly and then let you deal with that. Okay, put that in the basket that you got in your arms right now. Secondly, Jesus said, Many of you will call me Lord, Lord, and I will say I have never knew you. And that's rough. But guess who said it? So you can't just ignore uh what Jesus said based on your slogan that you wanna um you wanna live on because it's easier for you. Okay, Jesus said that. Well, what that what does that mean? Well, what does it mean? What do you think it means? Have you ever looked at it? Number three, Jesus said, No man shall pluck them out of my hand or my father's hands. I and my father are one, and I will save you and give you eternal life that you may never perish. Well, that sounds like my slogan. Once saved, always saved. Um so we gotta put that in the basket. All right, and then we're back to Hebrews chapter six, and um there's a couple other ones, but the basket's getting kind of full. Um Hebrews chapter six. They have tasted the spirit, and and some even go even further than that, some translations even further than that, but they walked away, and now they're not of us.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Well, although Hebrew says it's impossible to return them to repentance, which means in order to return to somewhere, you have you had to be there first. Right. We're turning back to it, and it says it's impossible to return them to repentance.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Right. So here we are, guys. Uh, put that one in your basket. Now we got these big four statements about theology that all somehow have to go together. There's some people who call Jesus Lord that he doesn't know. Right? What did what our um sermon tell us yesterday? He knows his sheep and his sheep know him. So there's some people out there who think they're Christians who call Jesus Lord who are not his sheep. Who are they? Okay. Number two, we've got uh people out there that who are his sheep. And the good thing about um John chapter 10 is he gives us a rundown of who those sheep are. Did you hear it yesterday? What are they?

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Was that the four? Um, that was the four.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Uh I didn't have enough time to break that down into fours, but it's uh yeah, you're you're talking along the same line. He knows them.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

He knows them, they hear, they know his voice, they follow him. They hear him and they follow him. Yep. Yeah. I think that's three, not four, right? He knows them, they hear his voice, they follow.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

No, I do four. I do four. Okay. He knows them, they know him, they hear his voice, so they follow him. And they follow him. So it is four.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

Okay, I was right the first time.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah, don't do that to me right on a live podcast like this. That's crazy. Um, so where was I? Oh, that's that's who Jesus says are his sheep. Okay. And then we have some people, uh, well, the church deals with uh a word called apostate. People who believed and then didn't believe anymore. Billy Graham's best buddy went on crusades with him. I think you preached about him not too long ago. I think he was in that group who filled that uh what was his last name? Templeton. I saw something. Um the guy who wrote uh wrote uh Case for Faith went to interview him because he was trying to figure out how this can't be true, right? And he said, How what happened? You know, and now he's an atheist. And he he said I was all in and then I wasn't. And he didn't give any specificity specificity hard word, he didn't give any hard word um distinctions on that, but he was preaching crusades with Billy Graham, and then he wasn't. And uh that's that Hebrews chapter six thing. Now all these things are true. And how do we explain it? Well, uh depending on how you grew up or what theology that you um grab a hold of, the answer to all this is another slogan. And the slogan is they were never saved in the first place. They were never saved in the first place, they weren't truly regenerated. Um and that's an easy answer to this. And if you're an easy answer Christian, uh you can use that and and not worry about it. But one thing I want you to know is that nobody knows the relationship of somebody else with the Lord. You just don't know. Uh if you were in Israel 2,700 years ago and uh someone told you that the king was gonna steal a man's wife, commit murder, and then try to cover it up, you wouldn't believe it. Because David was crazy about uh crazy about God. Crazy about Jesus, Jesus is God. And uh so you you wouldn't have believed it. But David sinned, he sinned hard, and he was never the same. He wasn't the same David before Bathsheba and um his he let his family do terrible things, he never stepped in um to demand they go in the godly way, and pretty soon his family turned on him and tried to take the country. Uh one of his sons did. So it's uh this is a question that we all need to hold pretty tight to our chest, but you have to hold it all. You just you just can't take your spin and then nail it down. These are all things that for two thousand years we've been wrestling with. What was that? No clue, but I think we hit the jackpot. Are we winning money? Oh, someone's at my front door. No, it says your plus AI trial has ended, and I get an announcement like that. That's crazy. Um let me turn this sound off. Holy, that scared me to death. Okay. Making sure mine's on silent too. So tell me what you think.

Fear Based Faith And False Security

SPEAKER_03 19:17

You gotta carry all these things.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

These are I mean, they're questions people have been wrestling with for a long time, right? And depending on the faith, tradition, denomination, whatever you grew up in, you kind of come land at different spots, you know. Uh I I grew up with a much more Pentecostal background, and I don't I don't know that it was ever communicated to me that I could lose my salvation. I don't know, you know, pastor ever said that, you know. And Pastor I grew up with is is a great guy, still still friends with him, love him to death. So I I don't know that he ever explained it that way, but that's the the understanding I took is like, man, I better not die on a Thursday, because like I gotta get back to church. You know, I I gotta repent. I I I'm not in yet.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Because every time you deal with God, it has to be at church. Right. And I thought that too. Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

And so there was this constant fear, like, I'm in, now I'm out, I'm in, now I'm out. And I I never felt sure. Well, then you come across something like, you know, John said, I've written these things so that you may know you have eternal life. I'm like, well, wait a minute. I don't have to to guess and wonder. I can know. Well, what does that mean? What does that look like? And then you you come across these things that, you know, like you said, well, this verse, it fits the once saved, always saved. So we kind of file in the yes, I believe that one. Yeah. And then we get to Hebrews chapter six and Hebrews chapter 10. I think it is. We we just read right over those.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Right. Well, those don't fit with what they were never saved in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

They were never saved in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Has to be it. Yeah. And why does the church word use why does the church use the word apostate? What's that mean, even in in theological grounds, if they were never saved in the first place?

SPEAKER_04 21:11

And so I think for some of us, we do this because we want some sort of confidence. I don't like the one saved, always saved. Well, if I can just go say a prayer and then live however I want, perfect. I'm in, I'm good, you know? Well, does that fit the four characteristics we were just talking about? He knows you. I mean, Reed talks about that all the time. Does God know you? Uh, so does he know you? Do you know him? Do you hear his voice? Do you listen to his voice? Right. Well, hold on. How does that fit with once saved, always saved? Right now there seems like there's some responsibility, a little bit of obligation here that I'm gonna have to, I gotta listen, I gotta know what his voice sounds like. Like I thought I I just had to pray the prayer. And then there's people that I think that I just man, it gives us this. I think what could be a false sense of security for a lot of us. Um we loved prayed a prayer one time, and you know, they die, and you're like, well, they prayed that prayer. Well, are they in heaven? I don't know. Yeah. You know, well, once saved, always saved. They prayed the prayer.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

And so I think we get this. That sounds like dumber and dumber. So you're saying there's a chance.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

I think we what we're really wanting is some level of security in all of this. And so we try to just build these blocks, but man, it's okay. Well, we're just talking you put four rocks in the basket today, and there's more. But just these four, and all of a sudden you're like, well, dang, this basket's kind of heavy.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

There's a lot to deal with here.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

And and and we, you know, it's it's a security issue, especially in the destruction, uh, deconstruction era that we're in right now, when family and friends seem to walk away, and I can't believe in a God who would do this, or I can't believe in a God who would do that. Okay, you don't believe him anymore, so who did that? Well, wait, he did it, and I'm mad at him, so I don't believe him and believe in him anymore. Okay, how can you mad at be mad at someone who's a figment of your imagination? So it it it's a circle, but people excuse me, people are caught up in it right now, and uh we want to know um not for ourselves mostly, but for other people that they're okay, right? And uh that's a that's a good thing to have anxiety about. It's it's not a bad thing. Um but Jesus kind of laid it out for us in the who's who. Uh we have all kinds of crazy things about who's in and who's not in. Uh the one that um that shakes me a little bit is the guy who is paralyzed and his friends brought him and dropped him down in front of Jesus. And Jesus said, Because of your friends. Yeah, their faith. Their faith. Not even yours. Uh well, is there room in a basket for one more? Uh so we we have these things that um we throw all together and we try to make this theological foundation.

Relationship With Jesus Defines His Sheep

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Um, and what we're talking about, the foundation that we're talking about is called the security of the believer, not once saved, always saved. Um we try to do it without Jesus. Without Jesus. Now, if you talk to a Christian today um online on a podcast, and he'll say, I'm not religious, I have a relationship with Jesus Christ. We've said it so much we say it flippantly. That's what Jesus is talking about. I have a relationship with my sheep. They didn't pray a prayer and then forget about me. We have a relationship, and I'll never let them go. So I I say that back to all the Christians. Do you have a relationship? Is there a relationship between you and him? Now, relationships are really complicated, right? Um there's some relationships that will never change. My son will always be my son, and he's done some things that I I wish he wouldn't have, you know? And um and I've done some things that he wish I wouldn't have. And but we're always gonna be father and son. And we're we still struggle through our relationship all the time. And Christians struggle with God, and I think they think that that's um an anti-Christian or an anti-God position to take is that I'm struggling with God. He called his entire people those who wrestle with God. I mean, that's that's that was his name for him, Israel. And um so we need to understand that we're gonna do that, and sometimes we're mad at God. Um Jonah. He did what God told him to do. He heard God's voice, but he didn't like it, and he was angry until the end of the whole thing, and it doesn't even resolve.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Even when God does save the people and he sees it, he's like, I knew you would do it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

So um we have a relationship with God, and and you think that uh security of the believer is complicated, relationships are even more complicated than that. And we have times when we're not as close to the person we're in a relationship with as we probably should be, and then we have times when we're really close, and that goes for all of us Christians. There's some times when I hear his voice, but I don't follow. You know, does that make me no longer his sheep? No, it makes you a stubborn sheep. And if you wander away, he's gonna go find you. He'll leave the 99 to go find that one. Put that one in your basket. So here we have uh all these things that we have to hold together, and it's not um it doesn't make you less knowledgeable or or less or have less faith than someone else when you say, Yeah, I see all that, and I have I have questions. Okay, that's perfect. That's where you need to be. Because in a relationship, if you have questions about the relationship, who do you go to? Your mom, your dad? No. You go to their mom and their dad? No. You go to them. And that's what Jesus wants you to do. He wants to keep bringing you back to him. And uh so when Jesus said it, and he said it this way, he is talking about the security of the believer. These ones I know, and they know me, and they follow me. It's simple. So you're out there, you're saying, Um, okay, I prayed that prayer, uh, you know, I haven't been living for Jesus. Um was I saved? Was I not saved? And uh I always say, Well, let's get saved right now. Obviously, you have that question and you want to follow him, so let's pray that prayer. No, no, no, no, I just want to know if I'm in or I'm out. And that and I can't answer that question for you. Right. You know, every person I've ever seen that struggled with their salvation, and they said, you know, I pray that I'm saved every night. Do you think I'm saved? Yes, I do. That's the evidence of you wanting to be saved. Um, the problem I uh that we run into is I've got some things that I know he wants me to give up. Um, but as I'm rebelling, I want to know I'm okay, you know? And that's that's our question, and that's a relationship question. So usually when someone says, Um, I think you were telling me a story, do you do you hear God's voice? Are you under conviction? Yes. Then you're probably his sheep.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

You know. This as soon as you stop hearing his voice, that's that's when to be afraid. The questions shouldn't make you afraid. You know, and I I think a lot of times we feel like, um, you know, even that slogan, faith over fear. Right. I don't have enough faith. Uh yeah. So if I'm afraid means I I don't have enough faith, there's something wrong with my faith. And so we we hear something like that, and okay, we all kind of get the sentiment what we're talking about. We're gonna choose faith, we're not gonna let this thing, you know. But then it's like, man, I have questions, and and then what does that mean? Am I am I out now? Yeah, am I not as good as some of the other sheep? You know, and all these things start to come in, and we need to really, really be careful about adhering to that kind of stuff. I mean, the the questions don't make you not his, they shouldn't scare you. Uh, even when doubt comes up, why would God allow this to happen? Um, you you lose someone you love, your kid gets sick, your you know, financial life is just in ruins, you know, whatever. Why would God allow this to happen? You you got doubts or questions, you got anger with God. You brought it up on Sunday. Questions are the doorway to intimacy. Bring those to Him. What do you come? Let us argue this out. Though your skins may, sin may be as scarlet, I can make them as white as snow. Like, let's let's argue about these things. Let's have a relationship, those who wrestle with God. I mean, let's fight about it. And I think God's like, yeah, let's get in the octagon, let's go a couple rounds, you know. Let's let's argue about these things. Because in the process, you're gonna find out I'm good. Yeah, you're gonna find out I'm faithful. That that when you're weak, I'm strong. But but you gotta you gotta wrestle that thing out, you know? And so those I get the slogans, and we all love a good coffee cup and a bumper sticker, you know, those those are great. But man, I think in in a lot of situations they've done more harm than than good. Yeah, because we just simplify it all down, and instead of pursuing the deep things of God, we settle for these little phrases, right? And the Holy Spirit wants to take you deeper, right? He wants you to know who he is, and and the only way to get there, like any relationship, is you gotta wrestle it out, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

And this is uh a personal state from uh from me. I I mentioned Matthew chapter 11 yesterday where Jesus says, Come all you who are weary and laden, I'll give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, my burden is light. Let me have yours. And that basket that you're carrying this morning that we just loaded up, that's his.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

That's his.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Pick that up right now and say, Lord, you handle this for me. I don't know who's who, I don't know who's the sheep and who's not the sheep. We got so many Christians out there looking for fruit on other people's tree. It's like, okay, man.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Yeah, what about that plank sticking out your own eye?

SPEAKER_03 33:47

Right, right. So all we know is this one thing is that Jesus is gonna call you. You're gonna hear his voice, and you get to respond. And you can become one of his sheep, and you'll live a life of responding to him. And uh and it might be no sometimes. And I'm I'm hoping that it's yes most times. But this is the relationship we have with Jesus, not the uh I put in the code, the correct code, so I get in the door. No, this is Jesus knocking at the door and saying, Hey, can I come in and have dinner? That's the difference that we're trying to trying to establish here with all you Christians. These are things that uh are Paul calls them a mystery. And uh I know we try to throw that word around all the time when we can't explain something. Oh, it's a mystery. Some of it's not a mystery, it's written there in black and white. Um, but it is a it is a mystery what God's doing, and the only thing you can do is hear his voice and follow him. Doesn't matter if you ever prayed a prayer or not, it's not about that, it's about repentance and confessing Jesus as your Lord. I it's it's funny that we get so hung up before we take a first step. You know, we're hung up. Um, and I know a lot of people come into church and they feel guilty for what they've done and they actually see their sin and they don't want to be punished for it, and they say, Well, I I'm gonna pray this prayer because I I feel guilty. And uh sometimes uh their heart is in the right place and they're saved forever. And sometimes they want to get out of the consequences and they want to mediate their um self-image by adding Jesus to it. And they might call him Lord, Lord, but he might not be. So here's a situation I talk about in my book.

Deathbed Conversations And Praying Again

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Book plug. We gotta call out all our book plugs. Um is when I go in and to talk to somebody about um they're getting ready to die. And uh I go in to talk to 'em, usually get called in, and one of those things that as a pastor, uh, if you don't know the person, you come in and you go, you know why I'm here, right? Um you're getting ready to to go to the other side, and your your family wants you to know that you're ready. Are you ready? Oh yeah, I was baptized when I was a kid. Okay. Um Have you ever confessed Jesus as your savior and Lord? Oh yeah, I did it as a kid. I said, Well, let's do it again right now. When someone says, I've already done that, it a fear rises up in me. It does. They've been brought up in a in a confession, uh, denomination or theological premise that if you somehow give in to the pressure that you weren't saved when you prayed that prayer that one time, then you know you're not faithful. That's a joke. Every Christian will pray that prayer. I confess you as my savior and Lord every day for the rest of his life. They don't have a problem with that. And on the deathbed, you see it. I prayed that prayer once. I don't need to pray it again. We can pray that prayer every day. Why don't we just pray it right now so that I know and your family knows? I prayed that prayer. That gives me this feeling of you've got a false hope. And I can't break into it. But when I run into someone who's actually a sheep, they'll say, I'll pray with you. Absolutely, I'll pray that. You know, and okay, this is an old pastor telling you what he's experienced. It's not in the book, people.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

Well, it's not in the Bible, but it is in your book. It's in my book. Yeah, there you go. And you want to talk about a book plug? Uh Joy and I uh got a call, uh, a couple in church. Uh his dad was getting ready to pass away. And uh they reached out and said, Hey, would you guys mind come? And we had offered, hey, if you guys need anything, you know, you want to, and so uh they reached out and I I called Tim. I said, Hey, Amy Chance, uh, you're free. And I pick you up. And he goes, This in my book, I said this only happens on Tuesday nights at 10 p.m. I'm like, I know this time it's Sunday at 8. Yeah. Um, but man, we we because we've done this for so long, and man, I've you know, I've walked this with you now 17 years. I even read the book. Um, anyways, you know, but we walked in and prepared for that moment. And here is a man that uh, you know, we got to come and and comfort his family, pray with him and and try to share Christ again, you know. Right. And and for those people, man, it's just don't hang on to these things and and let it define your relationship with God. It's he wants you to know his voice. Right. And so the question is, do you do you know it? Do you know it? And if you're listening to the podcast, they saying I I don't know. I don't know if I know his voice. I would encourage you, maybe start by praying this prayer again. Lord, I want to know. Yeah, I want to know you, and I want to be one of the sheep.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

I confess you as my savior and Lord, and I believe that you rose from the dead. You know, I believe that. Yeah, so I I want to be in. Don't wait till Sunday like Ryan. Right, do it right now.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

And then getting his word, that's where you begin to know what his voice sounds like, and you'll recognize it. And you'll get in a situation and you'll hear them in this sheep. Follow, they obey, they listen. And that's I hate this, you know, fruit checkers, you know, getting real popular on YouTube. Everybody wants to check everybody's fruit, and are they really doing it? Listen, that's that's not our responsibility. Uh Lord's gonna work all that out. As Tim just told you a little bit ago, this basket that we just loaded up for you, you just give that to the Lord, say, Lord, I'm gonna trust you with it, and then you just go and live faithfully.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Um You know what? I we skipped something, and I think it's pretty important, and you just kind of brought

What Abundant Life Really Means

SPEAKER_03 40:58

it up. Um Jesus said that the the thieves and the robbers have come to steal, kill, and destroy, but I have come that you may have life and have it abundantly. What does he mean by life and abundantly? Well, we're in a very Mercedes bins and a mansion. Yeah, we're in a very comfortable life here in the United States right now. Um we have air conditioning, I guess they don't have that in Europe, it was a big thing. Um we we live a good life. But my wife walks uh every day and she runs down to the cemetery, and there's a little plot in the cemetery on cemetery and uh Mason Road. Uh it's on the corner of it's a little plot of babies and there's a gazillion of them. And it's babies that were born 150 years ago. It's your grandpa's grandpa's time of life, and when you got pregnant, you were terrified and you were overjoyed because you didn't know what was gonna happen. And now that we live in a um in this modern society where we don't worry about that kind of stuff anymore. The doctors will figure it out. They'll save the baby, they'll save my wife, and it'll be alright. Um but just 150 years ago, that abundant life didn't look all that abundant. You know, so 150 year years ago, and then you drop back 2,000 years, yeah, there's some Christians whose life didn't look abundant.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

So look at the the apostles, you know, right? Rich, satisfying, abundant, life to the full, all these things. Well, where did that lead them? Prison, execution, hung on a cross upside down, you know, set on fire? Like, well, we'll that doesn't sound very abundant to me, you know. It can't mean what we what we've made it to be in our American church society culture.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

And uh so I I want to scrub that from your brain. His abundant life is a life with him. Amen. That's what he wants. He wants a life with you. And your eternal life doesn't start when you die. The scripture says that when you believe, that's when eternal life begins. And I I I want to express that to you. Your abundant life is gonna be abundant because you live it with Jesus, not because he gives you toys.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

And here's the thing, man. So many people were afraid that if I go all in on Jesus, confess him as Savior and Lord, right? He's going to tell me to to stop doing some things. And that's true.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

That's true. But yet, he's promising you abundant life. The problem isn't that he's going to tell you to stop doing some things. The problem is we don't know what life really is. That's true. And we think life is all these things, and this is what gives me purpose. That's what gives me satisfaction. That's what gives me pleasure. At his right hand are pleasures forevermore. That's right. It's bottomless. Like the fries that is it red robin? Yeah. I love red robin. You can't get to the bottom. They just keep coming. Chips and salsa at the Mexican restaurant. Like they just keep coming. We're just, man, was it C.S. Lewis that said we're so many of us, we're just content making mud pies when what Christ is offering us is a holiday at the sea. You know, we're we're just we're content with this little thing and we think this is life, and it's like, man, you have no idea what I have in store for you.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

And we've let the world describe what life is supposed to be for us.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

Yeah. It's about a relationship with him. That's what he wants. And in that, there is abundant life, there is joy, there is peace beyond comprehension. And it's all right there with him. As you begin to hear his voice, to know him, and then respond. Say yes to him. It's our mantra. Say yes before you even get started. That's where you find life. And if if you're sitting here, and I know maybe some of you, you've attended church a long time, and you're like, I don't know if I have that kind of relationship. He wants it with you. And so I'd start, Lord, I'm not sure where I'm at, in or out, but I want to be in and save me. And he'll do it. He'll do it right there. He's not gonna punish you. He's not waiting for you to figure out how you screwed up so bad over the past two decades. He'll save you right there and say, Teach me your voice. Teach me to live for you. And he'll do it. He wants that for you. More than even you want it. He wants that for you. Of course he's gonna help you do that.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Amen. I if if I could get people over their pride. Um, and there's so many that probably going to our church right now, but going to many churches out there who are asking these questions inside, but they've been going to the church a long time, they've been put in charge of things, they've done these things, and they're supposed to be this great Christian, but you got questions and you don't know anymore. You did know, or you think you knew, but now you don't know. Pray it again. Pray it again. He is a God who listens for that prayer.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

I've told, I think I've shared this with you, maybe a couple others. One of my greatest fears as a pastor is that people can sit in our church and under our teaching week after week after week. And we've had people that have walked with us now and at a fresh wind, 15, 16, 17 years, some of them have been here. And think they're in and stand before the Lord one day, and he's gonna say, I don't know who you are. That's a why would you even bring that up? It's as a pastor, like I said, my greatest fear. And it's like we I this is why we take the time on podcasts like this, and I know this one's a little bit heavier and didn't mean, I guess, for it to start that way, but it's these are the things that we need to wrestle with, man. Um, don't have this false security or sense of confidence. You can have complete assurance. I've written these things so that you may know. God wants you to know. Right. And so if you're not sure, get sure today, right now. Don't wait another minute. And then start saying yes. Stay in his word, learn his voice, and he'll follow you. Or you'll follow him and he'll he'll lead you into green pastures, you know, and it's gonna be an overall.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

And then we'll be back into rest. Yeah. Um we when we I I said at the sermon yesterday, when we talk about Jesus is the gate of the sheep pen, we're not talking about the gate to salvation. He's it's a gate to a relationship with the shepherd that extends from this life into the next. So um we we gotta make sure that we when we read scripture, we're we're talking about what he's talking about. And that's what's so dangerous about these slogans. All right, we should do a sermon on slogans and just say, let's here's a slogan, let's find the scriptural basis for it. Now, is there any scripture in there that would um kick this domino over?

SPEAKER_04 49:10

Blow it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

And and so we can dismantle some of that kind of stuff. Um I don't want to write it. Do you want to write it? That would be some kind of sermon series. Um, but we we need to make sure that when we come down on a simple slogan that we're not um that we're hearing what the word of God is saying and not um hearing our own version of it, if that makes any sense. I mean try I'm having a hard time articulating that. But I've I've done it my whole life. Um someone will preach something and I'll hear what I want to hear in that. And um we have to be confident. That's why we come to church every day for someone to preach at us, not teach us to preach at us. So you have to make a decision at the end. Am I am I not? What what about right now? Uh does that mean you're losing your salvation all the time? We just talked about all that.

unknown 50:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

No, that's not what that means. That means you have questions. And that means you're the type of person that Jesus wants, right? A person with questions. Um, someone he can have a relationship with, someone he has a doorway to be intimate with. And um, so if you don't have any questions, is he gonna sit on the front porch or are you gonna let him in? You know, so uh all this is about a life with Jesus, and once you get to experience it for a few years, it'll be really hard for you to give up, anyways.

Memorize Verses Not Catchphrases

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Here's my encouragement, and and we'll we'll wrap up here is as your pastors, we would much rather you, instead of having all these slogans, I know they're easy to remember and they're easy to recite, and that's why we all have them, why we all love them, we would rather you just memorize a verse. And sometimes you're gonna need a couple to really get a good grasp. Um, so that means you got to get get the Bible out, do some digging, or get a good commentary, or or even shoot us an email, and we'll try to help walk you through it. But I would rather you have a couple verses that you pull from because then we know what I'm believing is backed up in scripture, not some slogan that someone and and again, probably with good intentions. I'm not saying most of these things, there's these kernels of truth that go to them. It's why we like them. Someone with good intentions said this to try to capture an idea, but all of a sudden that becomes the scripture in most of our heads, and we don't know all the verses that backed up what that person was trying to say. I would rather you just put some verses in your head, know them in your heart. And then when these things come up, you'll you'll you'll be ready. You'll you'll be holding all of those things. And then when the questions and I don't know how all this works out, we just give that to the Lord. Lord, we're gonna trust you. And in that, there salvation is a mystery, and he's proven his manifold wisdom to the universe and how he's working all this out. One day I hope we get to see. Lord, what what was all that about? And he's gonna show us, and that's gonna be a great day. It is, but right now, man, just be a sheep that follows his voice, and if you're not sure, let today be the day. Amen.

Prayer And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_04 52:52

Let me pray.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Father, I lift up our people today, and uh, I know I've struggled in my life that every time I get on crossways with you about something that I feel like, oh my gosh, am I am I who I think I am? And uh, but I know I've learned that I can come back to you and uh confess you as my Lord and Savior all over again. And I don't even question whether I was saved before that or all that kind of stuff. I know your voice, and I want to thank you that I do. And Lord, I pray for all the Christians out there, our church, who who struggling in this area. I pray that right now, uh wherever they are in their car, in their home, mowing the lawn, that they'll just confess you as Savior and Lord. You're my savior and Lord. And um and Lord, I pray that that won't be the last time they do it. It's a great thing to say. It's like saying to your wife, I love you, honey. My commitment is there, I know who you are, and I love you. And that's when you confess, Jesus. When we confess you that we're saying the same thing to you. I trust you. You're my Lord, I trust you. So, Father, I pray that they'll do that right now. Lord, let the Holy Spirit speak. And Father, I pray that you'll make our church stronger for this. A church that sees all the truths and don't try to block any out and then just hands them to you to uh do all the carrying. So, Father, I pray that you'll bless this church in this way that they will know that they have eternal life and a relationship with a shepherd, a good shepherd. In Jesus' name we pray.

unknown 54:50

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Thanks again for joining us for this episode of the Midweek Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know how God is using this resource in your life or send any podcast questions or topic ideas to podcast at a freshwind.org. If you would like to support this ministry financially and help us continue offering new resources that equip you to discover more in Christ, simply text any amount to the number 84321. We're so grateful for your support. Make sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the Midweek Podcast. Be blessed and have a great week.