That They Would See Jesus

This week, Pastor Tim and Pastor Ryan pivot into John 12 from our Signs and Glory series in the Gospel of John and center on three responses to Jesus. Mary models costly devotion, pouring out what she could have kept for herself and choosing worship that is unmistakably about Christ. The crowd cheers for a king, but their expectations reveal how easy it is to follow Jesus with an agenda, treating Him like a tool for our outcomes. Then the Greeks arrive with a simple request that hits like a spotlight: “We want to see Jesus.” If that’s what people want, our everyday integrity, our relationships, and our private choices matter more than we think.

We also name six common obstacles that can blur the picture: celebrity pastor culture, politicized Christianity, worship production that becomes the point, modern Christian anxiety and cultural panic, masked Christianity that lacks authenticity, and Bible knowledge that never becomes relationship. We leave you with a practical challenge: do the next right thing, stack faithful decisions, and let devotion become a life people can imitate.

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Welcome And Series Check-In

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of the Midweek Podcast, brought to you by a Fresh Wind Church. Each week, our team brings you new content to help you take steps towards Jesus and discover more in Christ. Today's episode is hosted by Pastor Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast. Pastor Ryan joined as always with Pastor Tim, and we are in week 13 of our summer sermon series, Signs and Glory, where we've been walking through the Gospel of John, and uh we're doing pretty good, staying on track so far. You know, it's been tough. It has been tough. Um, we've been taking pretty good swings with this series. Uh, you know, not not necessarily verse by verse, more chapter at a time. And and there's a lot of content. Um, I remember we'll get into this in a second, but uh last night you were saying, man, Lord gave me three people in in John uh 13 or John chapter 12. Um, and so it's like, well, each of those could be a whole sermon almost.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

And so trying to cover it all in one.

A Big Sunday With Big Wins

SPEAKER_02 1:14

But uh man, before we we get into the sermon content, what a Sunday we just had, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

It was fantastic. I never uh what a great day uh all around. I mean, you know, you expect when you're when you're having a big day that Satan's gonna try to get in there and mess with it. And we had several situations that uh were concerning, and uh we had technical difficulties from the beginning till the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

All the way through. And man, I I'll tell you, Joy, she had everything so lined up. I mean, with the baptism, the videos uh in the conference room, all their shirts and the certificates, and they were all in order. Like it was all perfect. I'm like, could you imagine if we had tried to wing any of this? Yeah, yesterday was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

That's with it all being laid out. Yeah, we had so many different um situations in church, we won't go into all of them, that we we definitely were we were stretched thin. Yeah. I had uh one of the guys come and talk to me about it. He goes, you know, it's never it's never the same one thing, it's always something different. And then you go in knowing I gotta make sure that we don't do this again, but then another thing happens. That game whack-amole. Right. Like I finally beat that one down, boom. Here's another one. But I think the rough count was we had 411 at church uh yesterday. We baptized 22 people, seven people um uh raised their hand saying they accepted Jesus, and uh then we had a great picnic with around 250 people showing up playing volleyball. And I remember looking out at the jump house, and uh the kids were all out there, and then there was just it looked like a vast sea of shoes everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

The whole field was full of them. Yeah, it was it was a great, great picnic, great day, man. Um, we got done, and I mean we we were whooped, man. Yeah, we were Joy and I were looking at each other like, I don't know if we can even get in a car to drive home. We were tired. But we had we had so many, I mean, first off, you had Cindy and Christy, uh, those two ladies, and then they got Deb to help uh with some of the food stuff, put to put together a great picnic. Um, that was kind of their first time spearheading an event for us, and dude knocked it out of the park.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

They did. Troy jumped in and helped them with tents and gear and uh helped them get them all set up. You know, he's he's the master at getting everybody to eat at the same time. Uh that's a tough thing to do when you got a lot of. Yeah, he's awesome. And um, so they got they got some help, and uh some of the people that always get stuck doing all that got a day off. Um, except for Julie Daniels, she she got stuck in the bounce house and she gave up trying to yell at the kids from the outside. So she just went in the bounce house and stood in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

It's about the only way we could get it under control. Yeah, just staying in there. Um, but man, I you know, in all of that, one of the most exciting things I told Joy when we were uh finally in the car heading home, it's like, man, we had so many great things to celebrate today. Obviously, the baptisms, and I told all the people getting baptized, I was like, this is like the Super Bowl every time this happens, no matter how many times we do it, it never gets old. Right. In the past probably year and a half, two years, golly, it's it has to be close to 150 people uh we've had the chance to baptize. Yeah, it's been great. And I I need to go and run that number, but I mean, just all the life transformation that God has done, right? How exciting is that? Um, and then showed up at the uh picnic and found out that uh John and um oh yeah, that's uh they got engaged, so it was excited for them. Yeah, but I said, in all this, I mean, yes, we celebrate all that, but one of the things that was so exciting for for me to see is how many people just jumped up and said, I'm here, let me help.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

All these you know, you said a lot of the people that normally are doing stuff kind of got uh a little bit of a day off, and they did, and all these new faces just showed up. I John and Holly were one of them. Hey, let me grab that table. How can we what can we do with this? Uh the pollies came up after I think the 11 o'clock service, and they're like, where's the tables? How can we help move them around? And I was like, I don't even know. Let me try to find someone for you. We just had people coming out of the woodworks to help and love on our church and the people in our church. And man, it was just so encouraging seeing the body come together, so many new faces connecting, just seeing people out last night, you know, talking with people they they probably aren't normally gonna talk to on a Sunday, just in the busyness of it. Yeah. And it it helped make uh you know bigger church feel a little bit smaller. Yeah. So that was exciting stuff for me,

Why John 12 Matters Now

SPEAKER_02 6:32

man. Well, then John chapter 12. And I I remember calling you during the week, and I said, dude, we got 22 people getting baptized, a 10 or 11 per service. You cannot preach long.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I know, and that was minutes after I had written it, and um I went back and and started going through it, and I said, How can I break this thing down? So I cut a bunch of uh stuff out of it, you know, my normal uh affectation towards history, is that the word? I like to figure out what's going on in those times, and man, I spent two hours trying to figure out how long since Lazarus was dead uh and rose again till Jesus comes back to Bethany. And I looked all over and nobody had nothing. I was hitting every AI. Do you know the answer to this? And you know when AI is guessing, you can just see it. Well, most theologians say it's like, oh, okay, yeah, you don't have a clue. Yeah. So uh narrowed it down about three weeks to six weeks, and uh, I like that kind of stuff, and and uh just to get the timeline of what was happening with Jesus. And I didn't get a lot pulled out of there, but Sunday the Lord said told me, I you know, I got up there after the last baptism, after the sound didn't work, we had to restart, we had, you know, and uh the whole getting everybody in there and getting everybody out, and um I said, Lord, I got an I don't have enough time for this.

Mary And Costly Devotion

SPEAKER_01 8:25

And he goes, There's three people in your sermon, find them. And uh and he just revealed to me there's some that truly want to have a have a devotional life with Jesus. People who are devoted to Jesus and wants to do um like those guys coming up after church, where where do you want us? Uh like those guys after the party. Okay, what's cleanup look like? Where does these where do these go? And uh an intentional act of true devotion to uh our church, the body of Christ. And uh that's exciting, and Mary showed that. And I said in my sermon, and I don't know if this if this is true, I said that in my sermon also, uh that I I think Mary knew where Jesus was going. She had connected the dots because why would she come out with Nard and um anoint him that way if she didn't think he was going to be buried? So I don't know uh exactly uh if when her brother was raised from the dead, she's thinking that's what's going on. It doesn't matter if he dies, if he can raise my brother from the dead, he can never die. And uh so she did it. And uh I did just there there's people out there and uh people in my life that has lived a life of in intentional true devotion towards Jesus. And um talked to one of them today, um our buddy out in Kenya. He's been there for eleven, twelve years now. They just sold all their extra stuff, left his company, and uh led hydrating humanity out there and and um finally his wife moved out there with him and she's got she's been sick here lately, and uh she's just getting over that. But they're out there digging wells. A life that is an act of devotion to Jesus. And uh so there's people out there uh doing it. It's not it is not a rare thing. I know we like to think, well, that that's pretty rare. People don't know. There's people out there who's given it all for Jesus. And uh here in the United States, not just in uh I sent you that video, remember that video of those guys down in Nigeria, they were in a Nigerian mall. And uh in Nigeria Christians are getting killed more than ever before. We've never seen anything like this, and the government's not doing anything about it, and and it's a mess. But these guys were in the mall and they were talking about it, and they just broke out singing a worship song, these two guys, and in like now I'm gonna cry four seconds, the entire mall, every Christian in the mall just started singing with them. It is amazing. So there's people out there who are devoted to Jesus no matter what's going on. And uh, we see that in Armenia right now, and they're they're being threatened on all sides for taking Iranian Christian refugees, and uh, and they're taking Iranian refugees who are not Christians, and the first thing they do is share Christ with them as they come into the country and uh just try and take care of people that need to be taken care of, and that's gonna cost them. They've got enemies all around them. So um yeah. Mary, Mary stood out in in the beginning. Um with her breaking open her financial um her nest egg, her financial freedom and pouring it out on his feet.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Uh I I like how you point out that this isn't it's not rare. If Mary doesn't do that, you know, we we she's uh I mean just a blimp in history, you know. But because of what she did, we're talking about her 2,000 years later.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

She's just an ordinary woman, you know, but she knew that she loves Jesus and she's like, I'm gonna worship him the best way I know how. And and she did that. And you know, that was that Marvel series we did that it, you know, I'm working on the book. It's it's all about that. Ordinary people, and now we read about it, and you were like, Well, yeah, well, they're in the Bible. Well, only because of this moment, you know, like there was nothing special about them before that, right? They were just ordinary people who loved their God, were devoted to their God, and then God did extraordinary things through their life, and we can do that, man. It's it's the ordinary, everyday Marys who just say, Lord, I'm devoted to you. I say yes before I even get started.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

And it's it's uh it's achievable. You know, I said at the end of my sermon yesterday, look, do you want to be the person that almost lived a life worthy of the gospel? Do you want to be the person that almost lived the life called God called for them to live? And um because there's there's there's a lot of people that are just a couple decisions away of being that person.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Lay that down, give that up. Love your wife, um, love your husband, whatever it is, they're just a couple decisions away of a person who lives a life that's intentionally devoted to Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

And when we get to the uh the other side, we're gonna look back, and those things that kept us, those couple decisions are gonna seem so silly, man.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Why wouldn't I just have laid that down?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, he was. You know Hebrews chapter 12. Lay aside the thing that easily besets you. Right. Yeah. And then chase down Jesus. Right. I I know we think we well, you never know what Jesus is gonna do with your life, but if you're working at Ford, um you're gonna be a you're gonna be a light for Jesus at Ford. If you're um a consultant, when you consult, you're gonna be a light for Jesus. If you're a tax guy, you're gonna be a light for Jesus while you do the worst thing that you can do in life is taxes. So uh there is a those guys have never had a good record. No, they started out bad. It's still going on 2,000 years later. Poor Matthew. He leads them all. This is uh this is something that I think as I grew up in the church, people are just a couple things away. And uh same thing happens when you see a pastor fall or or um some religious leader um falls into something, believes a wrong doctrine or something like that. Just a couple of things that they had screwed up. If they would have spent the time, did the right thing, um then they would have a life like Billy Graham or a lot of Christians that nobody nobody sits around and talks about the ones that um Mud wouldn't stick to 'em, you know? And and uh they just talk about the ones that failed. And I think that's because in our heart we're like, uh, who am I gonna be? Well, Mary chose this day that she was gonna be someone who was intentionally devoted to Jesus. And my sermon said, We we we're devoted to Jesus. You showed up at church, that's proof. I'm gonna take my weekend and I'm gonna take the first hour of the best day of the weekend, because Saturday you gotta mow the lawn, trim the weeds, and do all that kind of stuff. But on Sunday, the best day, I'm gonna be at church. That's devotion. When we read our Bibles and pray, what is the word we use to describe that? We call it devotions, you know? And uh what are you doing? I'm doing my devotion. And that's what you're doing. When you when you seek the Lord and His Word and you pray, you're you're being devoted. Even when you pray for your food uh before you eat, that's an act of devotion. And you start stringing those together, and pretty soon, pretty soon you've got a life of devotion. That's right. And um, it's it's not rare. Christians are doing it all the time. Uh you make a couple decisions in your life, you'll be that person. Uh, I think we we we think, man, I oh every time I climb a mountain, there's another mountain. And but we got a God who says, I can move the whole mountain and you don't even have to climb it if you choose that, you know. So burden is light. So that was the that was the first person that I found in that before I started

Crowds Who Want A Useful King

SPEAKER_01 18:21

preaching. And the second second one was uh the people who wanted Jesus to be their king because they wanted something out of them. There was a there was a reason. I'm waving my palm branches, I'm yelling Hosanna, I'm throwing my coat down, my cloak in front of your co uh colt as you're riding on it. Um because I'm assuming you're gonna do what I want to do. Not what you want to do. They were calling him king, treating him like a king, and then telling him what to do. Which somewhere it should have clicked. Oh no, he's king, he gets to do what he wants to do.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

What's I don't know what king uh they were anticipating, but most kings come in and just take charge.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Right. So I you know they wanted to be free of Rome. They thought that that's what the Messiah was gonna be all about. They had a couple hundred years ago, they went through that thing in the Maccabees with the Greek Seleucid Empire that came down and did horrible things in the in the temple, and they were free of that, and they were looking for that to happen again. But the Jesus is like, I'm gonna set you free, but I'm gonna set you really free. I'm gonna set you free from sin. And um that was not their that was not their plan and their hope, and five days later they're they're yelling, crucify. So that's my second person. Are you someone who who comes to Jesus? Um, I had the word in my head before I got here, but um I will say it like this, with a list. I'm gonna follow you, I'm gonna believe in you, but here's here's my part of the deal.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I was thinking when it comes to baptism, what's the prerequisite belief? Confess Jesus as Savior and Lord, believe in your God raised from the dead, you will be saved. Be baptized. That's those two, just belief. And I was like, I was wrestling with that because I'm like, okay, that's that's it. That's all the prerequisite. You know, we we have them fill out a form and we talk with them, and then I sit them all down and I go over it again because I want them to know. Because I think a lot of us we get in a mess, right? Often self-inflicted, and then we need saved from my mess. And so we we come to church and we hear a sermon about a God who came to save and rescue us. I'm like, man, I wonder how many people are like, yes, I need saved from this consequence, which is not the same thing as I need saved from sin, and I need someone to redeem me. Right. And it man, it sounds so much like those people who, as Jesus is coming in, we want saved from this. Right. We're not we would rather you do that. And Jesus, like, well, I came to save you from sin, and they're like, Who cares about that? We want saved from this thing over here, you know. We don't even see the need sometimes, you know, and and we would just rather Jesus save us something. Save me from the consequences of my bad decisions. Right. And we don't see the pit of despair that that we're in and just how wicked sin is, you know? And we just justify it. We make excuses. We like to play with it. If sin wasn't fun, none of us would struggle with it. Right. Yeah. And so we're like, nah, I'm not really looking for saved from all that. I just want you to fix this mess. I don't want to be in this mess anymore. Right. And and here's these people, and just like, I'm going to be king and I'm going to save you. But it's not going to look like you wanted it to. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I think there's nuance there because God uses consequences of sin to bring us to him and and uh to get to the point where we say yes to him, whatever happens in my consequences. And a lot of people come to Jesus that way. Um but a lot of times when we lose our comfort and we lose our reputation, things like that, we want Jesus to fix that, but we don't want Jesus. And uh we might say we do, but we really don't. So there was that was the second person that I I saw in that passage of scripture. So we were at that dinner in Bethany three to six weeks after Lazarus was raised from the dead, and Mary did her thing, and then Jesus um enters Jerusalem the very next day, and they're calling him king. And

Greeks Who Simply Want Jesus

SPEAKER_01 23:42

then we run into these Greeks, um, who the Bible describes as God fearers. Uh they believed in the Jewish God. Uh they came to um Jerusalem for the Passover, which was the yearly big day in Jerusalem. They've heard about it uh from synagogues all around the Roman Empire and have come to um see what it's all about. And when they get there, or maybe they even heard where they were, what was going on with Jesus, they were like, We want to see Jesus. So they grab Philip, who's got a Greek name. It just makes sense that they would go to him and say, Hey, we want to see Jesus. And that's the third person uh in the sermon. There's people out there that want to see Jesus. And the only way they're gonna see that, uh, a fresh wind, is to see Jesus in you. Jesus said, You are the light of the world. And you need to shine and uh do those good deeds, Jesus said, so that they'll glorify your Father in heaven, so that they'll see me in you. Do those things that are um that are Christian, that are true, that are honest. I had to get um my grandson's birthday party was Saturday, and I had to get some ice and uh I was leaving here from the forge and I stopped to get ice and the ice machine had broken and the guy said, Hey, go ahead and um uh take four bags of ice because they're all starting to melt out there instead of the two that I paid for. And I went out there and um I was like, Yeah, that's a good deal. I went out there and there were some melted bags, but on the bottom there was two full bags of ice that were still frozen. And uh I was like, Well, I'm I'm gonna get those and then I'll I'll just get a third one. And the Lord said, You're gonna do what? You paid for two full bags of ice, and the only reason you get four is because the other ones are melted, but you found two full bags of ice. What are you gonna do? And I was like, I'm just gonna take these two, Lord, and here are they here they go. And I put them in my truck. Those are the things that may be unseen, because that guy wasn't looking out the window, checking the icebox or anything like that. But it's seen by the spirit world and it lets them know who you are, who you're living to be, and your light shines, um, whether anybody sees you or not. So those decisions made uh in private and those decisions made in public are both part of you shining the light of Jesus. Um people want to see Jesus. There's um a uh I think it started in uh the Methodist Church and they started uh carving that uh that phrase, sir, we would see Jesus on the pulpit. Not for the people but for the pastor. And uh uh Beecher had it on his his pulpit. They say um um I wrote it down here somewhere, but I can't find it right now. But um some of the guys we quote the most uh had that those six words on their pulpit. And um all over the world it became a thing in the eighteen hundreds. I haven't I've never seen it, but um they pin it in their Bible and then um oh who's the pastor that we um we quote all the time when he trained the pastors he would bring up this verse Spurgeon? Spurgeon. He would say, Amen. Who are they gonna see? Are they gonna see you? A well-studied, well-healed preacher, or are they gonna see Jesus? You have to make that decision before you get in the pulpit. And uh that's what we want to do here. Uh Lord knows I'm not here to impress anybody. I'm just not that impressive. But uh I want you to see Jesus in me. And that's that's the most important thing for every one of us. Listen, a fresh win. I don't know where you are right now, driving in your car, um, at home, mowing the lawn. Let people see Jesus in you.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

That's what they truly want in the depths of their heart is to see Jesus in you.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Let it be so, Lord, um my life and the lives of the people that call Afresh went home. Just thinking about the families and the workplaces, the schools, that would be different if Christians grabbed a hold of that and just said, I I want to live a life that people see Jesus in me. I've shared this story probably a few times, but um back when Jared, Pastor Jared's wife Allison, she used to work at Starbucks inside of Target over in Lorraine. And uh I'm terrible with names as probably most of the people in the church know. So I had nicknames for for everybody, and uh I nicknamed the baristas in there so that you know we kind of knew who was in there and we knew which ones were good at making coffee and which ones weren't. And one time I went in and I got some coffee made, and Allison was the one who made the coffee, and she was one of the ones who could make a pretty good cup of coffee, and so I got back to the car, and Joy goes, Who was working today? Because she wants to know, am I gonna have a good cup of coffee or a bad cup of coffee? And uh my nickname for Allison was the one who loves Jesus. Now, Allison and I had never had a conversation about Jesus. We didn't talk about it, she wasn't trying to preach or you know, evangelize me, anything like that. She just made coffee, but I there was something about how she held herself. It just poured from her. And so that and Joy knew exactly who I was talking about. It's the one the girl who loves Jesus. And now, that was before they worked here too. I mean, they were not on step, didn't know who they were. Now she, you know, is here with with Jared and leads our youth ministry. She plays on the worship team, helps in kids ministry. I mean, she's she's a huge part of this church. She's Jesus, that's who she is. She's the one who loves Jesus. And it's like, man, if we would all live that way, where Jesus just exudes from us and people could just see it. I can't remember who said it. You know, they said preach often and when necessary, use words.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Listen, sometimes that's a cop out, and words are helpful. Right. How can they believe unless someone tells them? But also, your words ring hollow and meaningless if you say them and your life doesn't back it up. Actions also speak louder than words, is true. And so let us live lives that are worthy of the gospel where Jesus just exudes from us and people can see it. And whether or not you use words in any moment, you know, particular moment, people know there's something different about them. And man, the you're right. It's the thing the world needs is they need more Jesus. You know?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

We have uh we have this idea that if we're not full of joy and ridiculously joyful, and and uh if we experience sorrow or sadness, we should hide it from the world. Jesus didn't hide his sorrow. We studied that last week. Uh he wept bitter tears. He got angry. Those things are true about you too, but that doesn't stop you from being Jesus in the lives of others around you. Let them see an authentic person who trusts Jesus in every situation. Whether you're happy, sad, angry, full of joy, um, full of anger, let them see that you're that you are still submitted to the king.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

I think it's often in those moments that that Jesus shines brightest in us, you know. I think about Amy when she was in that accident, and I mean, you know, one of the values we have around here is dynamic faith. She she has dynamic faith, faith that inspires others to faith in Christ. You were just telling me about Bob Lake, um who's man health-wise, going through it, right? In the hospital, and what's he doing? You said he's sharing Christ with every nurse and person that comes in the room.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah. Praying for them, praying for their families, and encouraging them to come day fresh when he's at main campus.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

So well, that's because I I've been paying them to do that. Oh, okay. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

But they all live East Cleveland and all that kind of stuff. He's like, it's not that far.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

You can go, you can make it.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

So there's some obstacles I think we run into if we can run into a few of these, uh, go through these real quick, uh, so this doesn't end up being four hours

Six Obstacles That Hide Jesus

SPEAKER_01 33:54

long. But there's some things that get in the way of people seeing Jesus, and one of them is the celebrity pastor substitute, where you got a good pastor, he can really speak, and he he becomes um not the not the reflection of Jesus, but he becomes the head of what you believe. That happens to a uh a lot of celebrity pastors. There's a lot of them out there that people follow them word for word, everything. And they might not ever fail, but they're not following Jesus, they're following a guy. You know, and his walk with Jesus might be great. But if you truly want to see Jesus, you gotta look past us as his reflection on the planet and search for him. And if you seek him with your own heart, with your whole heart, you'll find him.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

We when we say celebrity pastor, it's easy to think of the guys with you know big YouTube following or big followings on Instagram or X or whatever. But you know, your dad, who I never had a chance to meet, but anytime you know, I'm talking with people and I'll mention, you know, our other pastors, Tim Holt, and they go, Holt, was his dad Elroy? I mean, people all across this county know your dad. And and he was a guy that had this status with people that he impacted people's lives. And you we'd never consider him to be celebrity, and but man, he he made a huge impact. And even in those situations, people can cling to the man more than to Jesus. And your dad, I mean, you know, I never met him, but seems like a a guy who who loved Jesus faithfully, followed him to the end, you know. Yeah, but he was still human. But he he was still human. But it's like even in those moments that you can have a great pastor who's not necessarily trying to get up on stage and win some popularity contest or go viral on YouTube for something, they they genuinely just love Jesus. That in itself, I think, is attractive to people.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

But then you can get to the point where you that becomes more about what it means to follow Jesus is I follow this guy, and that guy follows Jesus. Well, be careful. I mean, yeah, we're supposed to help help lead you to discover more in Christ, but it's about Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

It's about Jesus, not us. That's right. Another way we can uh get in trouble is the politicized Christianity, the I'm a liberal Christian, I'm a conservative Christian, but all you want to talk about is politics, and you're following around a political agenda instead of Jesus. That can happen, uh, especially right now in America. Um if you if you're on one side, you think, well, Christians is a voting block for the Republicans. Well, I guarantee you, man, I know I know Christians that have been Democrat and will die Democrat and they'll never vote anything else. And how can they be a Christian and vote for those people? Well, how can you be a Christian and vote for those people? You know, we we it goes back and forth, and that becomes our focus, our our Christian focus is about that. It's not, it's our focus is Jesus. That's right. No matter who's in control, no matter how bad our country's doing or how great our country's doing, the focus is Jesus for Christians.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

And whenever we add, you know, I'm a conservative Christian, I'm a liberal Christian, I'm a Christian. A modifier. Yeah, a modifier. Whenever we do that, man, it you have set yourself up for failure because there's gonna come a time when that modifier and following Jesus come head to head. Right. And now you're gonna have to choose. Well, hold on. Wait, what am I supposed to do now? And

Celebrity Pastors And Political Labels

SPEAKER_02 37:50

so we we have to strip those things away. No, I'm a follower of Christ first and foremost. That's who I am. And my life then is to align with what God has said in his scriptures, what he has taught. And it doesn't matter what party I tend to vote for, it doesn't matter what group or organization I associate myself with. This is what my king said. Right. And I'm going this direction.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Absolutely. Uh and we could stay there for a long time, but let's move on. Number three, um high production worship, emotionally charged, engineered moments at church. I never thought about this too much uh as I was growing up, but even with just a piano player and an organist, we were trying to engineer some emotion, you know? If I can get them emotional, maybe they'll say yes. Now I'm I'm saying this um without judgment. I want them to say yes. So how can we make it easier for them to say yes? And I don't think that's actually a bad thing. But there is a time when um when people need to see see Jesus and not smoke machines and lasers. Nothing against smokes, smoke machines and lasers because I love them both.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

And if someone would like to donate to the vision fund.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

But there's that high smoke machine. There's there's that high production worship, and then there's um we need enough light on the stage so people can see it on YouTube. You know, uh we were watching the other day and Jimmy was singing a solo, and there's no light over in the corner of that, and it was just YouTube went dark, yeah, and Jimmy was singing, and it's like, uh, it wouldn't be nice to have lights. And then you put the light up and someone say, Well, there you go, you're all about the performance, and and uh we're we're about getting rid of the distractions, is what we're trying to get rid of.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Well, you even said it, it it's not even so much the lights, right? Or even the smoke machines and lasers, right? Um you said, man, back when we were doing it with hems and an organ or whatever, you know, it it's the same thing was kind of going on, right? And and not all of its bad intention. No, I I think there's how you prepare an environment matters, it's important. Removing distractions uh to begin tearing down walls, uh, because people come to church with all kinds of preconceived ideas about who God is and what churches are and what church people are like, and they've been hurt by this church member or that pastor before, and and they come with all that. So when you can tear down walls and you can create environments where people can come and they're comfortable, they can hear the word of God, all that I think is is wisdom. Yes, you know, and and we understand this church is not for everybody, right? Just like the one down the road is not for no church can be for everybody. You can walk into the biggest church in the world and be like, nope, not doing this. And then you can go to the smallest. I I had a guy, he came uh came up to me a couple weeks ago. He says, Hey man, I loved love church today. He it was visiting for the very first Sunday. He goes, Everything was awesome. I love the music, the way you preach, all this stuff. He was he was fired up about it. And then he goes, But I'll just be honest with you. I mean, I'm I'll be back. But there's just something about a piano and a hymnal and an older lady singing slightly out of key that just does something for me. And I was like, that's cool, man. You can you can go get your fix over there too. Um, it's not necessarily about that thing, it's about when those things become

When Production Becomes The Point

SPEAKER_02 41:55

the thing. And man, if if we had some lights that moved around, it is I'm not against any of that stuff. I think a lot of it can be overdone for sure. Um and you feel more like, man, now I'm just at a concert, but when you can use it in a way that that helps create environments, that's a great spot. But man, there is this over-engineered high production thing where it's like, man, we put a lot of time and effort into that and money, money into that. Have people seen Jesus? Right. You know?

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah, it's important to keep that balance because you can um no matter what you buy for that, in a few years, I had a guy yelling at me the other day. I went to a birthday party and and another sound guy and production guy at another church was yelling at me, you gotta get new stuff, man. Things, this is the digital world. It don't last, it's never gonna be. And I'm like, dude, that's just not our priority today for a swim. You know, we can't drop $50,000 every time, you know, a new camera comes on the market. No, I would like some upcoming. How long have we had these cameras?

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Oh man, before COVID. Well, before COVID, we started a couple years before COVID, so they're yeah, they're getting up there in age, and they were cheap when we bought them.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

They weren't good ones then. So, yeah, there's a lot of things. I just I'd just like to see Shimmy on stage when she's singing. That'd be nice too. But um, yeah, you can't, you know, there was a guy there yesterday, his granddaughter um goes to our church and was being baptized, so he came to see her. And I worked with him years ago, and he goes to a church in the area, and and one day he came in and we were talking about it, and he said, This was years ago when a hundred thousand dollars was a hundred thousand dollars. He said, 'We're putting in a pipe organ that's a hundred thousand dollars.' And I'm like, What?

unknown 43:59

What do

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You do it? And it it's the same thing as what we're talking about here. It's just not light, lasers, and fog machine. And I said, You can you can buy a keyboard for five grand that will make the exact same sound. It's a tape of an of a better organ playing that, you know. I said, You can you can do that and and it'll only be five grand. Ah, we're doing it. And so it doesn't matter which side, uh, if you're the hymnal or you're the um church back in the 80s that were, you know, doing their line dancing up there while they were singing and all that stuff. It it doesn't matter. It can get out. It it it it'll get out of hand. It'll get out of hand.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Either way, either either side of it has a production element that if you you can lean heavily into in the wrong way, right? Um and so, yeah. It goes back to that you know moniker written on the back of that podium. Do people see Jesus?

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Yeah.

Anxiety Culture Versus Trusting God

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Here's something that gets in our way of us um showing Jesus reflecting him to people is our um Christian anxiety culture. I don't like that word, but um modern Christians live in a state of constant cultural panic. You know, I can't send my kids to school, they're teaching the wrong things, how do I protect them? You know, the country's going to hell in a handbasket, and um all this stuff is being done, and what am I, what can I do uh to stop and that's all you're thinking about when you serve the king, not just the king of Christians, he's the king of everything, and nothing happens outside of his sight. And if he allows it to happen, he allows it. He's still in control, he's sovereign. So sometimes when we when we feel that way and we live in that dread of where's my where my where's my kid gonna go to kindergarten at, um, because I can't afford a Christian school, I can't afford to go to the um Catholic school or pay for private school that I just don't and I and I I gotta work, we gotta work. So um and we get in this anxious, what am I gonna do? The Lord's in control, He's the king. And and one day none of this will make any difference to you. You won't even remember it.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Yeah. I mean, I think it was a sermon that I was we were working on sermon series, it's probably been a couple years now, but part of it was you know, stats on this, and I think anxiety stats in the church run almost parallel with in culture. It's like, man, what what is going on in the church, man? Um we have a a God who sits on the throne, man. You know, like it doesn't matter what's going on, he's still king, he's in control. And I I think when we let that anxiety run rampant in our life, the watching world sits back and goes, What hope is there then? Right. I'm already anxious. You're supposed to follow God and you're just as anxious as I am.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

And I and I I'm not trying to to minimize the this emotion, right? Um and good Christian counseling goes a long way. Um but man, when we have a faith that says, become hell or high water, my king, he reigns, and he's in control, I can trust him. He's good. I'm not saying our anxiety completely disappears, but it should be at least less than the world. And Jesus said, or Paul said, cast all your cares, your worries, your anxiety upon him because he cares for you. He'll carry those things for us. And I think again, even in those moments when when it gets challenging and it's tough, then the watching world looks at uh a believer who should be riddled with anxiety, and their faith carries them through and says, Man, I don't know how they did it. I couldn't have survived that. There's gotta be something different there.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Yeah. Yeah, that's uh that's a tough one. Anxiety's real. People deal with it all the time. Well,

Masked Christianity And Real Change

SPEAKER_01 48:39

number five is the masked Christian who puts on his Christian mask and is not authentic. And uh sooner or later they're gonna see the real you and then they're gonna quit looking looking at Christians altogether.

unknown 48:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

You don't want to be that guy, you don't want to be that one that's got this thing that you're doing, and you're hiding it from everybody, and then people see it in your life, and then they say, Well, I knew I knew I wasn't seeing Jesus when I saw you. Uh, we need to be authentic and take our mask off. I think you talked about it in uh week four, uh fully known.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

We we mentioned it there, and then years ago, I mean this is old building, years ago. Um, we did a whole sermon series called Beyond the Masquerade. Right. And it was about this, man. Let we're supposed to be true, man. Our our whole spirit, body and soul should be sanctified, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

And we've gotten really good at putting the mask on and living the part. I I preached on that, you know, when I was talking about that duplicitous life I was living growing up. I knew how to do all the right things, say the right things. And then outside of that, I won't man, I was living a completely different life. And this was in middle school, you know. I had already figured out how to game this whole thing. Yeah. Man, we've gotten good at it. And it's man, let's live mask-free. Let let the gospel change us, transform us from the inside out. What a I mean, this is baptism, right? What a beautiful portrait. I right I have died to my old self. I've been risen to new life in Christ.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

That's a great segue in into the last one, which is um a Pharisee.

Knowing Facts Without Knowing Jesus

SPEAKER_01 50:28

And when I say Pharisee, I it's knowing the Bible, knowing doctrines, knowing interesting facts about the Bible and not knowing Jesus. A lot of us, as we grow in Christ, we think the growth is about knowledge. It's not, it's about relationship. And uh, you should be growing closer in Jesus, even though you're gaining knowledge, that's not the point. Uh, when we talk about spiritual disciplines, we're always talking about the point is godliness, not knowledge. Are you becoming more like Jesus?

SPEAKER_02 51:06

I'm sure people have heard me say it before. You know, most Christians are already uh far more educated than our level of obedience.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Sometimes we don't need another Bible study or devotional or sermon, podcast, even this podcast, uh to make the right decision. You already know, just do the next right thing, right? And and what's it about? It's about getting to know Jesus as well as a forgiven sinner can. I had a guy uh tell me recently, he goes, Man, I feel like I'm getting so close to God, and but you know, some people in scripture they got close to God and they're just taken away and like, can I get too close? It's like you can never get close enough, man. Like, just keep going. Keep there's more. The whole purpose of this church is that there's more in Christ. And I don't care if you've been following Jesus for 150 years, like read, just ask him, he'll tell you. Yeah, there's more, there is more to discover. I'm still searching, I'm still hungry. I want more of them. And so keep going, man. It it's get to know them as well as a forgiven sinner can. That's that's what this life is, that's where life is.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

That's where it's at. So these things that we talk about, the uh these obstacles of people seeing Jesus in you that might be in your life, might be in your church life. Um

Do The Next Right Thing

SPEAKER_01 52:31

think about those. See what are the things that are keeping people from seeing um Jesus in you? Now the mask one, the whole being authentic, that's a tough one. Um that's really tough because being authentic with people we feel like we're somehow betraying Jesus. Um I used to tell Pat McCorder every time I'd get mad or something at work, he'd say, Hey, what's what's going on there? I said, I follow Jesus, I'm not Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

We're all somewhere on that journey. Yeah. There I and the truth is uh that is not acceptable. That is not acceptable. G uh Paul said, Hey, look at me. Imitate me as I imitate Christ. That's right. If you want to if you want to know what to do, do what I do. Oh my gosh, can you say that about your life? Now that's a tough one. And uh so I want to lean out there and and encourage you, if if if that's where you're at, I can't be genuine because I got this thing. Uh the Lord will take that thing. You what what He'll do is not He won't take your desire for that thing away. He'll make your desire for Him to be greater.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

And man, how do you get down that road? It's often just doing the next right thing. You already know it. Just do the next right thing, and then do the next right thing after that. And all of a sudden, you stack those things on and you live, goes all the way back to how we started this thing, a devoted life. Yeah, you're devoted to your king, just one step at a time, and and you're gonna live a life worthy of imitation, worthy of the gospel. Amen. And the watching world's gonna look and they're gonna see Jesus in you. Praise the Lord. Pray for us. I was gonna say a you dang it to you. Beat me.

A Prayer For Visible Faith

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Father, I thank you so much uh for your word. Man, what an incredible series this has been. And Lord, all the things that you're teaching us. And um, Lord, I pray truly that we would live lives worthy of imitation, worthy of the gospel, and that when our friends, our family, the people we work with, the people we see at the ball field or the performances that we attend, Lord, that they would see Jesus in us. Let us uh preach often, and then when necessary, let us use the words. And I pray that your Holy Spirit would give us the right words for the right people at the right time so that we can plant seeds and we can water seeds, trusting you with the growth. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen and amen.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Thanks

Connect With Us And Support

SPEAKER_00 55:19

again for joining us for this episode of the Midweek Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know how God is using this resource in your life or send any podcast questions or topic ideas to podcast at a freshwind.org. If you would like to support this ministry financially and help us continue offering new resources that equip you to discover more in Christ, simply text any amount to the number 84321. We're so grateful for your support. Make sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the Midweek Podcast. Be blessed and have a great week.