Welcome back to the Potter discussion discussing Harry Potter fantastic beast and the Wizarding Worlds fandom. I'm your host  Oscar and this is episode 139. And today day we are going to be talking about the Destiny Hollows in honor of the Deathly Hollows 15th birthday. That is a lot of years. It was released on July 14, 2007, and it is in July around the same time in 2022. So there you have it. So today we are going to be talking about Debt Hollows and if it was a good ending for Harry Potter, the age old question, the story we all know and love, but was it finished off good? That is the question that we will be answering today, right now. So make sure you stick around because there is some pretty good stuff coming your way. Before we get into it, I do want to mention an email that I got that definitely caught my eye. So thank you to Ruth Glass, who sent me an email who caught an Easter egg. So Ruth caught an Easter egg in one of the Harry Potter movies, in the Philosopher Stone, the very first in the zoo scene. Some students are walking by that are in what we think is a Muggle school. And they're weighing lots of green and silver and silver in colors. Maybe this is foreshadowing that Harry is going to Hogwarts. He's going to see the silver rings. You can see the magical people. So thank you, Ruth Glass, for that email. If you want to have your email seen by me, just send it over thepodiscussion@gmail.com that is thepotterdiscusion@gmail.com because I really want to hear what you have to say and it is absolutely open. So go ahead and do that. All right, let's get into today's episode. So I want to start this episode off with kind of just a blanket statement, because I think the Deathly Hollows just was a good ending. I think it wrapped up the story. It got it all done. It tied everything up, everything got buttoned up. Whatever saying you want to use it was good. All right. It was an acceptable ending. My only gripe is it left a lot on the table. And that area of the story is really what we are going to be exploring today. Of course, of course, not every single thing that was previously mentioned could be touched on again and then kind of carried on and like that story kind of continued. But what we can kind of see the story going, I say where we see the story going is trying to wrap everything up with kind of one storyline, which can actually work in the story. I am not an author myself, but I can say that a good story is one that has a satisfying ending. So I think that is why Harry Potter has a good ending, because it is very satisfying. But there are several things that might not make sense, but definitely fit with the story. For example, when Harry died, when he just came back to life, that was a little strange. And seeing Voldemort, the baby, bloody Voldemort under the bench, that was weird. And the kingdom. Honestly, all my things revolve around the very final part of this. I mean, it should, though. I feel like it should because that's when all the storylines kind of converge and that's when they all clear up. But that is kind of what I want to see in a good story. And that's what I do see in Harry Potter, is a story that wraps everything up and kind of puts a nice bow on it. But like I said before, the main portion of this episode that we are going to be talking about in terms of the quality of the story in the dusty hallows is what is not talked about, because I think the books are definitely a different story than the films because the films could not fit in everything. There's a lot more to the books than there is the films because the boathouse doesn't exist, pretty much. It's an intriguing shack. The protective bubble around not Zucchini around Nagini, around a guinea that doesn't exist. Drop does not show up. There is no circling battle between Voldemort and Harry and Kingsley and McGonigal and I think it was like Flitwick are not battling Voldemort and Belichick is not battling, like, Jenny Neville and Luna is like that whole storyline is gone. And it's kind of a disappointment in the movie because we're really looking forward to this whole situation of spells flying everywhere and the windows shattering and the people staying alive and all these different things that are just so stunning to read in the books that are just not there in the films. And of course, we can definitely imagine them in our own mind palaces. We can kind of see in our mind's eye the battle in the books, which, of course, is different movies, like we were just saying. But besides that, besides all the things that are different in the books, I think there's a lot still to be desired, I think, not just in the film because they couldn't fit everything in. But I think in general, I think there are a couple of major plot points that weren't really discovered and some things that are just kind of personally bugging that I think I just wanted an answer to. And even like, WizardingWorld.com Harry Potter wiki and the Harry Potter lexicon don't even say anything or they give you the most tantalizing answer. I looked up the lavender brown question, which, of course, is like the most widely debated thing in the Harry Potter fandom. Here is lavender. Bryan labor dead. We saw her getting attacked by French or Grayback, and she was on the ground, a lot of gashes in her inner face, in her neck, and she was not moving. So is she dead? Is she alive? Is she aware of a vampire? Or she goes who knows? And I looked it up and the website that I was I think it was visitingreal.com said something like lavender Brown is presumed dead but we don't know for sure. It was like something like maybe she's dead, maybe she's alive, maybe she's nowhere. It was the worst answer. So it's those kinds of things that are just little kind of like deviations from the main plot that are just like kind of bringing it kind of drawing it away from the main effect. But I'm not going to get into those small things because there are two minute accounts. But I just want to talk about the major things, the huge things that are definitely impactful of the story. So now that we have the discussion straight we should get into a couple of the things that I think should have been different in the deathly holiday. So let's get into that right now and right back into it. Let's get into some unanswered questions. We talked about the lavender one that I have written down here we are talking about is she dead? Is she alive? We have no idea. Another one is Fluffy. Where is Fluffy? He was in the chamber, the third floor corridor that was banned in the Philosopher's Stone. And we were I shouldn't say we, I would rather I was hoping we would see Fluffy in the final battle to kind of remember the old days of Harry, Ron and Hermione fighting evil by their own lonesome. And Fluffy and like Drop and Hagrid would show up and they would kind of bust through the wall and fight off the spiders and aid in the battle. Something like that. So that was something that I was definitely looking forward to seeing. Kind of the culmination of all of Harry's years finally coming to his aid which I thought would have been fun. Like seeing frenzy in Bain. But I think that was somewhat captured when Trelani was casting the balls, what are they called? The divination balls where they see the fog casting those off the roof. That was cool. Kind of a call back to the third book. There's a couple of other ones. I think the spiders are kind of a call back to the second book so there's kind of a little bit of everything. Also the elder ones. The elder one was something that I thought was a bit of a dark patch because this is a platform that's different in the movie and film. Not the movie in the film, the book and the film. In the book. Harry has the older one, he repairs his own one then I think he puts it back in Dumbledore's grave. I haven't read it in a long time, which so problematic. But in the film Harry snaps in half and Chucks in and the chasm so good for him. That is probably the route I would have gone but I would have prepared my own wand which I think is an absolutely stupid move for Harry to make. I mean, he didn't repair his own wand before he destroyed the only thing that could actually fix it. So, Harry, good job. Good job to you. So that was something that I was a bit disappointed about. But in the film I think he did Repairs Wand or in the book he did Repairs Wand but then he put the Elder Wands back into Dumbledore's grave which is another just very bad decision because someone could just push the grave over and grab the Elder Wand and it might not work for them like the Elder One is supposed to but it very well is going to be a very powerful wand. So good job, Harry. Good job with thinking ahead. But it's these questions, these little things that I just wish we kind of knew. Like the suits of armor are suddenly alive. That was something that I was a bit shocked about, but it kind of made sense. But also the Patronus. Suddenly the patronus does not. This is also a difference in the entire series. But I think especially in the final Battle in the battle of Hogwarts, it comes to life, this difference. And that is in the books, the Patronus is described as the silvery animal that then charges the dementors and kind of catches it. But in the films, what I'm thinking of specifically is that scene of Abbeyforth and Jenny Luna and Neville may be on the bridge and they're dementors and Aberford is casting Patronus but it's just these big shock waves almost of Patronus dust or whatever you would call it. So maybe that's just a different kind of Patronus. Maybe it's a certain variation because there's a lot of them or something like that because you can cast, like, three Patronuses and just tell them to go well, at least, I think. But it's like those kinds of things that were just like movie isms and not really bookisms that definitely made for a different story. So that was one that I was a bit confused about. And there are definitely a lot not a lot a lot, but enough that makes it seem like there are a good number of things that might be a little bit different. And in some cases in some cases that might be good. Like for example, I don't think we would want to see aragogue just come out and start fighting with them because then he would switch sides and whatever and he's dead. So that would probably not be very fun at all. Or even like a unicorn. That would just be so random and weird. It would only help if Harry saw unicorn in the forest looking at him and then the unicorn turned away and ran and Harry found new hope. That's the only situation I can think of that would actually be beneficial to involve a pure creature like unicorn but other than that, it's these simple, like, little things that make all the difference in terms of the story. But it's those things, specifically that are also the hardest to fix which is why I don't think they did there are things in the books that are just way too hard to recreate. For example, Hogwarts. They couldn't just build Hogwarts and film there. No, I mean they used the model that I saw in the Harry Potter studio. All that kind of stuff is just put in because they couldn't do it like an hour. They don't just build an hour. They don't just build a huge bridge spanning two chasms or chasms just like that not how it works. It doesn't go like that. So I think it was kind of similar to that in a sense that there were some differences that just couldn't be made up for. And I could think of some specifics, but my brain is too fried right now. But actually, one of the things that I thought they did do well which I thought they wouldn't do at all was the fiend fire. The fiend fire scene in the Room of Requirement trying to retrieve the diadem I thought was very well done. Those effects were very good and kind of like the tumbling flame and kind of how it bursts. Like the animals would burst out of the clouds and they would be like kind of like screeching and roaring and there's like, tidal waves upon tidal waves of just flames and fire that I thought was really good. And the save, I think it was a crabbergo. I think it was a goal that fell into the fire so rip Goyle. Yeah. But it was things like that that I thought were very well done and very well recreated that I was glad that they put the effort in and actually tried to make that a scene like that to be actually good to fit with the zeitgeist of Harry Potter and really make a good impression. And the face is coming out of the fire. The end. That was good. They send the door shut and everything. So I think it was good. That was definitely good. But it was just those things it was just a little unanswered questions. I just got on my nerves. But there's some other stuff we should get into, so let us move on. Now, I want to tackle the question that was definitely on my mind when I was reading the Destiny Hollows and that is still kind of floating around in space that I want to kind of grab and really think about and that is about Dumbledore. Dumbledore is planned. The Dumbledore scheme, if you've been listening for a while is definitely one of those things that you either hate it or you love it. It's either the best thing that ever happened or it is the absolute biggest mistake of the entire series and I am not going to get into how the quality of the plan but I do want to get into if it was a good you know, if it actually helped the outcome of the story if it aided Harry more than it hurt him. So in a sense yes we are going over the quality but my personal opinion is going to definitely take part in this. So overall I think Dumbledore had a positive effect. I'm going to go ahead and put that out there. If Dumbledore was not alive for the entire series if he was just an old legend that died before the I don't know, building of Windsor castle or something like that I think there would definitely be a divide in the story that would probably tip the scale in Voldemort's weight. Now of course we are going to ignore the fact that if Dumbledore didn't exist then Voldemort probably wouldn't exist because he helped hang on to Hogwarts and then Hagrid wouldn't be there and then Harry then wouldn't be there and then McGonagle. So we're not going to change time. We're going to change the story a bit. If Double Door did not exist would there be more good? I'm going to say no because Dumbledore helped a lot. He told Harry a lot of stuff and granted he did not tell Harry a lot of stuff but he told him enough that allowed him to go on and do the right thing and do it correctly which I think is the most important thing of this. But despite that ignoring all the information that Dumbledore told Harry I think Dumbledore kind of was the guidance figure in Harry's life because of course Vernon and Petunia definitely are not good substitutes for parents. They are absolutely horrible to Harry and then Mr. And Mrs. Weasley and McGonagle and Dumbledore those are his adult figures that he trusts and maybe Lupin but that's a different story. So he definitely looks at the Dumbledore as this person who knows a lot of and is very knowledgeable and is this kind of figure of like grace and power and he has the power to rid the world of Harry's enemies and all that kind of stuff which I think kind of wore off in Harry's future especially when Dumbledore died and when Rita Skeeter put out the life and lives of Elvis Dumbledore and when Harry was talking to one of the people at the wedding and the woman at the wedding was like are you sure you're really new Dumbledore at all? Kind of planting the seed in Harry's head that was like maybe Dumbledore was not the person I thought he was which is a very ominous spin on things but that is really kind of the question that I was thinking about really are done with plans good? Are they acceptable? Do they fit into the story? Do they improve it in any way? And like I said before I think my answer is yes. Are we happy with the plans? Yes. But there are a lot of negatives namely lots of confusion lots of fighting and discourse and discord and a lot of different stuff that just kind of culminates into this unpleasant and confusing and just frustrating environment for Harry to work and live in and to find the horcruxes in which is not awful. Harry and Ron had a huge fight and Ron left that's how much of a difficult situation they were in so it was definitely a choice. Dumbledore made a lot of choices for Harry that maybe he should have left up to Harry like how to find horror crosses and kind of giving him the right information to make the good choice but we can have everything in life but still I think there's a lot of room for improvement in transaction optimalist but obviously there is he would never make it correct on the first try. Honestly you listener right now trying to think of something that you did absolutely perfectly on the first try that was a complicated set of steps lasting multiple years in your career. If you want a promotion I can pretty much guarantee that you did not know the cheat code how many sugars to put in your coffee to find $100 in the sidewalk that day, how many times to jump upside down in your garage to summon a cloud that will drop a bank carrying many billions of dollars in your driveway. Now I'm going to guess that you do not know how to do that which granted unfortunate but that was pretty much what Dumbledore was trying to do and I think this all worked out because Dumbledore is a very smart dude dumbledore knows everything that goes on around here and he really understands the ins and outs of the castle. The world really everything in general so that's kind of what helps him his brain is really what helps them move forward with the tasks that he has to complete in order for Harry to complete his tasks destroying the ring it was definitely a misstep and that's why he had to kind of rush his plans of getting killed because he was going to die either way so that's not a great decision and little things like that that obviously no one could have foreseen and that are done. That are done that are left in the ether now kind of floating around that are just the decisions made type things that are just unreversible it is impossible to take some things back and that is I think why there is some negativity in Dumbledore's plans because Harry obviously not Harry specifically but anyone does not want a bad experience to make it the most comfortable but most effective thing is probably better. So Dumbledore did kind of fail at that but his plans I think were overall good so I want to dive a little bit deeper into a topic that we talked about days ago, and that is the Elder Wand. So in the film here, snap the Elder one half, chucks it into the canyon, and that's that in the book here, Paris is wand and puts it in down with Doors Grave, and that's that. So I want to talk about rather, if this is a good situation. Is this a good choice for heroes? Is this a good choice for the world? Is this a good choice for someone else who might stumble across the wand? So that's kind of what we're going to be diving into of it. And I want to talk about both situations, both of the film and the book, because there are definitely some different outcomes that could come out of this. So let's start with the probably less exciting film version of this. So Harry just has it. They're on the bridge. They are discussing their plans, and it is all swell, but they can't go on. They want to move on to the world. They want to do their own thing. Harry wants his wand back. So naturally he destroys the only thing that can possibly fix it and throws it down probably about 2000ft. That is just not a good decision. Absolutely not a good decision. I don't know why he like, that was like the first head. Not, oh, I should probably fix my wand. Not all, I should probably fix the castle. They're walking in rubble. They are walking in the remains of their childhood home. And Harry has the most powerful tool in the world to fix it, and yet he decides, I'm not going to repair, I'm not going to fix, I'm not going to even fix my own wants. I'm going to snap this in half and I'm going to throw it down there. That I do not agree with. And I understand that he did not want the power in the world because it corrupted and it made for a very bad conversation topic. But I think there was a lot more to Harry than just snapping one in half and chucking in the canyon, which I think, again, I'm going to keep going on. This is not a bad decision. There's so much to do. There is so much to fix, to go over, to revise, and don't even break it. Put it somewhere where you know it cannot be used and use it only when you need to, when you're going off. Because, of course, he becomes head of the magical law enforcement. So he could use that to lock his office and no one could get in. He could use the wand when he's going on a raid to defend himself, to defend his people, his partners, his associates. He could do so many things that he does not do. And again, this is the leaving stuff on the table part of this. This is a pretty big table at this point. Gosh. So he snaps it in half chucks it and that's that bad decision. Could have used it for so much more good. But alas, ear wax, it is gone. Nothing else. And now for the film. I always flip this around. Now for the book version of this, which I think is the vastly more problematic version of the story. It definitely does not leave stuff on the table. So I'm happy. That is an Oscar happy moment. So in the book, Harry takes the Elder Wand, repairs his wand and then puts it back in down the doors. Great. Awesome. Fantastic. When I first saw that, when I first was kind of reading that, it was a bit anti climactic almost because the whole thing started. I mean, what was it like the start of? Maybe it was either the start of the very post credit scene of the half Led prints or a post credit scene of the Death Part One, where Voldemort cracks Dumbledore's grave, takes the stone off and takes the Elder Wand and then shoots a bolt of lighting into the air. If it's that easy to get the Elder Wand, I don't know why Harry thought it was a good idea to just put it back, to just say, you know what, I know the perfect place for this. I know where it will be safe, where no one will be able to get it, where no one will get any ideas, where it is absolutely protected. It is surrounded by water, impossible to get to, as we have learned. That's what he was thinking when he put the Elder One back in the grave where it was already stolen from. And come on, it is a piece of stone that's covering it and maybe forcibly there are probably some enchantments around the grave, maybe around the island, but come on, if Voldemort can break through with his regular or rinky dink wand, a team of people can break through. So there's a lot here to be desired. There's a lot of blank slates, there's a lot of way too filled slates. Again, the table is very large at this point. Don't know what a lot of people are thinking, don't know what a lot of writers involved were thinking. But nonetheless, I'm ending this episode on a positive note. The Deathly Hollows is absolutely fantastic. Every aspect of it, in my opinion, the story, I should say every aspect of the story, I think makes somewhat at least a small degree of sense. I think that it is a good end, a good finish line for Harry Potter, and it is certainly a story that will live with us forever and it is a good marker for the legacy that is the entire series of Hadipata. So thank you for listening everyone. That is that. We had a very good recording today. I am definitely glad to be back here. I'm actually recording a bit early because I am not going to be in the studio when I usually record. So I'm recording this daily. So that is very fun. Thank you for listening, everyone. Again, I hope you enjoyed this Ruth blast. Thank you for the email. I enjoyed it. Definitely hearing from you. It was a blast to hear what you think, so thank you for that. And if you want to leave a review, feel free. If you're on Podcast or Spotify or Apple Podcast Spotify, you can now, which is pretty cool. Five stars, if you would. If that is something that you think that the show is, if you think it's a five star show, leave five stars. That's how it works. And if you want to give some feedback, maybe leave a review or written review so I can make some change in the show. You can also request some episodes. I've done some requested episodes in the reviews, so if you want to do that, that's a bit of an unconventional way of doing it, but a good old fashioned emailthepodterscusion@gmail.com works, or goodofashiondm at thepoddiscuscusion on TikTok or Instagram. So go ahead and do that if you would like. But that is all I have for this episode. And as always, remember that happiness can be found even in the darkest of times if one only remembers to turn on a light. I will see you later.