VO:
Welcome to The Potter Discussion.

Oscar:
Welcome back to the Potter discussion discussing Harry Potter fantastic beast in the Wizarding world fandom. I'm your host Oscar and this is episode 146. Thank you for joining me on this one is Fine day and I am very happy to be back in the studio. It's been almost a week and a half because I had that little prerecorded episode I had some business to attend to in other regions of the world and I attended to them. So now I am back, I'm happy to be here and this is a beautiful day but it is actually getting chilly. I do in fact reside in the northern hemisphere where winter is coming as they say. Personally I'm a huge fan of winter. Winter is my favorite season which I know is kind of crazy for some people but I love winter. The snow, the hot chocolate, the sledding, all those funds. The ice skating is really my cup of tea or a cup of hot chocolate if you know what I mean. So I'm definitely looking forward to that. I wore a sweatshirt on my walk today. That's how chilly it was. It was in the 50s so I am very happy with the direction things are going. I see some trees kind of starting to turn and this is really an exciting time because I enjoy the winter as I previously mentioned. So there we go. That is my update about life. But today we are talking about the Ministry of Magic, the downfall of the Ministry. And this topic came into my brain because I have recently finished my reread of The Goblin of Fire and I really enjoyed it of course it was a marvelous story, marvelous characters, great storytelling and really a great introduction into the darker days of Harry Potter. And while reading I was noticing just how little and just how ineffective the Ministry was in general. Around every corner Fudge was making some kind of mistake and Percy was just screwing everything up and being very ambitious and all of that and Crouch was falling apart and Bartee Crouch Jr. Was absolutely shaking things up and through that my realization came my epiphany and I saw just how much the Ministry was crumbling. And that is the topic for today's episode the Ministry is falling apart. A rather interesting topic especially because it does fall apart in later books. So really understanding where this starts and how it's going to end I think is going to make for a very intriguing discussion. So make sure you stick around because we have got some good stuff coming your way. But before we get into it, there are a couple of things that I want to get off of my plate. Couple of announcements, couple of exciting things going on. First of all, Hogwarts legacy hogwarts legacy is now available for pre order. I believe it is about $60 US for the regular version and $70 US for the premium version, I think you get a beta, you get a 72 hours pre something or other just to test the game for everyone else. And there's something like a $300 version where you get a bunch of arenas and groves and stuff like that. So there will be a link to get Hogwarts legacy in Atlanta to preorder Hogwarts legacy in the Show Notes. Also a special welcome back to Hogwarts. It is September 1. We are past September 1 now. We are all in Hogwarts. We have gone to the Hogwarts Express. We are in Hogwarts Castle in the wonderful Scotland. So welcome back. I hope you enjoy your classes. And one more thing about the Potteriscusion website. I have finally gotten around to buying thepotterscusion.com and now there is a website there. By the time you're hearing this, it will not be completely finished but there is stuff there if you want to check it out, go to thepodterscription.com I can finally say that. Just go to thepodiscussion.com to check it out. That's so cool. Or there's a link in the Show Notes if you're too lazy to type all that out, which I get it. And that is that. So let's get into today's episode. So to kick off today's episode, I just want to get deeper into my inspiration for this episode. Now, I mentioned a little bit before about how I was reading the Goblet of Fire and then it really hit me about how much the Ministry is falling apart. And that's what I'd want to dive further into because I think the topic of really how the Ministry starts to crumble and kind of where it does is a fascinating thing because it is the government of the wizarding world. I mean, wizarding community is ruled by the Ministry of Magic, of course, as any government is, the country is by its government. So seeing just how far it is demolished I think is very strange. How could that even happen? Going from a reasonably sound Minister of Magic and a just community and a bunch of very qualified wizards and witches working there to overruled by the Dark Lord and filled with Death Eaters. Where does this decay start? Because that is really the key to this whole thing. Now, what I really want to start with is the prisoner Vascan because that's really where we begin to think about the Ministry falling apart. Now, let's begin with march. Harry is living very disturbingly at Private Drive. He has horrible meals and he's beaten and bullied and just life is not good. Which is horrible when Anne Marge comes to say because that is Harry's least favorite person in the world. Safe for about 100 people and when March days she gets blown up and flies into the sky through the greenhouse she goes bouncing, bouncing, bouncing deadly. Gets smacked in the face of buttons. The cuckoo clock is going off and Petunia is screaming the ripper of the dog is trying to drag Uncle Vernon down who's trying to drag God March down it is a scene to be remembered and in the book too. I think which is pretty cool how they pull off such a good action scene but this is kind of the way I see it the beginning of the end because they patch this whole thing up they send the Muggle magical wine mine wipers they fix it all and March is deflated her memory is modified and Harry goes to Dyke and Alley and stays there so he's not pulverized by uncle Vernon where he meets the Minister of Magic Corneli Fudge that is I believe one of the first times we meet him I can't remember if we meet him the Chamber of Secrets is for the actual closing of the school but we might hear of him oh no. We do. We do meet him because he takes Hagrid away to Ask Cabin and Lucius and Demeldor that whole scene in the cabin I've been in because then Harry's thinking oh, this is a Minister of magic but he doesn't know that I've met him before so why should act like I don't know him? Okay. So we have meters before but this is the first time we really see him in his minister action in this huge office with a huge quill town the landlord bringing them snacks and roughly offer them to Harry which is funny I really like the touch of the film and we see Hedwig and all his books and all this kind of stuff it's great dandy whatever but this is not bad this is not bad for the ministry this is just how I see it kind of where the rot starts because we can see Fudge is now kind of with hair he is trying to protect him against serious black and that whole situation is kind of beginning which will then bring them down the rabbit hole which is the bad rabbit hole the rabbit hole you were kind of circling for a while now this is really where it starts the Dementors is kind of what I'm getting at here because the Dumbledore does not like the Dementors the mentors are horrible they are not loud inside the castle they can go on castle grounds that's it. So this is kind of where Fudge now we'll have a little bit of a disagreement they don't see the eye to eye and it is a question of who has more control over Hogwarts the minister of manager or the headmaster and this is kind of of course we know the answer dumbledore of course even though the actual position of Fudge might have more influence over Dumbledore specifically in Hogwarts fudge would rather jump off a cliff then go head to head with Donaldor which I think we see that and that's why he falls apart so quickly later because he has to do both which is horrible for him but the prisoner mascara is over. Nothing terrible has happened. But the Galvan fire which is when this idea kind of started is really where it starts to go downhill. Now perhaps if the events of the prison Raspberry hadn't transpired and Fudge and Nobler were still on perfect terms this might not be a problem because I'm kind of skipping to the end here. Of course. Bardie Crouch Jr. Kills Barty Crouch which is a huge blow and Percy is stepping in and it is a fiasco, which is a fiasco to say the least I should say but skipping to the end. The Voldemort returns. All of his Dedicators are back and Harry tells Dumbledore he's back, he's back. Cedric is dead. He killed Cedric, he killed Frank and he's there and he is back and Dumbler is like okay, of course Dumbler believes him because why would Harry a lie. Of course that is a flaw in Dumbler's character and Harry's character but we'll get into that later. And Fudge does not want to accept this. He wants a perfect world. He wants the Ministry to be the most powerful thing and for the good to be restored forever. Which is of course impossible. So sorry Fudge, that's kind of a stupid thing but he refuses to believe it. And this is probably the most detrimental thing so far because Dumbledore says send invoice to the giants, release ask events from the dominant's control connect with Death Eaters and start arresting people. Increase security around Hogwarts and the Ministry create security protocols and checks and just prepare the wizarding world. But Fudge is like no, the Dark Lord is not back, you dung bats. I am agreeing with Rita Skeeter here that is what Fuss was saying because that's what Rita Skeeter calls him in her article. So this is really where we start to see the beginning of the crumbling, which is not a good thing and then moving into the Order of the Phoenix is when it really starts. Fudge is going crazy with the denial of having to go head to head with Denmaldor and then possibly having to go HEADtoHEAD with Voldemort which is then tripled when he actually sees Voldemort at the end of the Order of the Phoenix which I mean I am surprised that he didn't literally lose his mind as when he saw because of how much he denied the fact that Voldemort was back. You can see how mad he was in the courtroom when Dumbledore would like whim to the stand it's like, Cornelius, you have to believe me. He was like he's not back. Sorry. That was like crazy. We saw how adamant he was that Voldemort was not back, he was not back. It was like he was saying to himself over and over again but that's really where I am coming from here. I think it's important to understand where it starts. Where it begins in terms of where the Ministry really starts to fall apart and the relationship between Cornelius and Dumbledore and how that makes a difference. So now you have a kind of understanding here. We've got some foundation lead, so let's move on and get some more specific. Now I want to get into something that I think is really hard to answer, and that is, could we have predicted it? Could we have predicted the downfall of the Ministry? I think the simple answer is yes. But I want to come from multiple sides here because we all understand that the Ministry is falling apart. By I mean the Order of the Phoenix, we were like, okay, so Dark Lord's back. He's probably going to take over something to do with the Ministry, so we've got to come up with something way to stop him. We got to rally, we've got to do that whole thing. But by that point, I think we were pretty certain that something was going to happen for the Ministry. But again, going off of that double sided coin here, could they have predicted it? We may have seen something, and of course we couldn't have said, oh yes, the Ministry is going to collapse. They're going to install a statue against the Muggles in the atrium, and Yaksley is going to be head of this, and Umbrett is going to do that, and Piya, no way we could have done that. That's like having a perfect bracket. I mean, it never happens. So we absolutely could not have foreseen exactly what happened in the story. But I think we all generally knew that the Ministry was not going to fare very well. And if that meant that it would face hardship, if that meant that it would be blown up and destroyed and burned to the ground and everyone killed, or if that meant that it would be infiltrated like it was if the death leaders snake their way in and the darkness kind of descended, we really didn't know. But now what I want to really talk about is, did they know? Did Harry know? Did Dumbledore? Did Fudge? Did. Even pius thickness, even roofer scrim draw. Did they foresee what was happening? Of course, Pius really couldn't have because he was on the Imperious Curse. But did Rufus Grimjaw see really how much he was needed? Because at that point, he was the most important person in the wizarding world. Dumbledore is dead, so he couldn't help. He was the last good minister. He had to do something, but unfortunately he couldn't because he was killed. So good job, but we still want something. Could they have predicted just how bad things could have gotten? And again, there's a simple answer here. Yes, I think absolutely in a very similar situation to if we could have predicted it. I think the characters of the story knew that things were going downhill. I think Snape knew that. Of course Snape knew Voldemort's move, so he knew for sure what Voldemort was doing. But then snape kind of really understood just how much was happening. He was probably the one who knew the most out of the entire wizarding world at this point because he was with Dumbledore kind of talking to Dumbler's portrait, and he knew Dumbler's plans and he was also in the very inner circle of Voldemort and knowing Voldemort's plan. So he was probably the most educated person in the entire plot. Which is funny actually, because Alan Rickman also was a very educated person. Not like went to a good school, but he I feel a little fun fact that I think is kind of a coincidence. He asked the author if he could know something about his character at the very end and the author told him that Snake was going to die, which allowed Alan Rickman to play Snape differently, which is funny because he knew so much. The actor and the character knew so much. I think it's kind of a funny coincidence, but yes, Snape was a very educated person in the story and he knew everything and he could have absolutely known what was happening. And I think everyone else generally knew. Again, this is very general. I think the other wizarding, which is the wizarding world, understood that there was something bad happening. Baltimore was coming back. The Ministry was going to slowly get tear down. Whether it was brick by brick or section by section or even person by person, something was going to happen to it and it was going to get rebuilt in the Dark way. And Hogwarts was also going to get kind of tainted because everyone was slytherin and there was no gryffindor, there was no nothing. Everyone was slytherin and evil and all this. And of course they weren't all Slytherin's, but they really branded as that because Griffin was not bad. And I think Snape really plays the part well because he has allegiance to both Voldemort and Dumbledore. And I think this is a future episode for sure. Wow, I just remembered playing an episode. I got a suggestion on the topic for LinkedIn, the show not if you want to suggest something you want here on the show about Snape and Dumbledore and if they were dead theaters or not, which I think is interesting. So Tobias in June, toby and June, that is coming soon. Thank you for that suggestion. This is a very interesting thing here because understanding where Snap is actually loyal to is another impossible question. Again, that is coming soon. But I think we can assume here that he is allegiance that's not the right word. If he is aligned with Dumbledore, because that's kind of where the story I was going. That's what the story suggested. That's what we all assume. So without going into any theories, he will assume that he was aligning with Donaldor and he's a good actor. He is a good actor in these scenes I'm imagining when they're on the Great Hall and he says Harry Potter is here. If you have any information come forward now and you don't you'll be treated as equally guilty which I mean Alan Rickman does a fantastic job in the team. I can feel the tension, I can hear the shoving of this, I can hear the fear, I can smell the tension. I am perfectly sane, I assure you but this is a very good scene and I think it showcases just how much of an actor Snape is and just how many parts he's playing. Of course his end goal is to protect Lily but then after he went down the rabbit hole of pledging his life to Dumbledore and then Lily got killed and then he had nowhere else to go so he was kind of stuck in this three way road of not knowing what to do so a very complicated life but he pulled it out. He pulled himself out of it and he really managed to turn into a good thing for the wisdom world. So that is my over complicated and over length answer to because they have predicted it but I think Snape is really the main character here who probably could have done the most damage to either side. Now it's time for my favorite part of the show the power asks you a rhetorical question yay it's not rhetorical for me though because I'm going to answer it. So the question now is was it all Fudges fault? And he fudged the whole thing up. Did Fudge fudge it? Well I think the answer to this one is a very simple one and that is yes I do think it was the vast majority Fudges fault because he was a Minister of magic he is the person who had control of the situation and he chose to do nothing which is the definition of his fault at this point because Dumbledore said hey. Fudge is like no not Fudge is back. Hey, Fudge. Voldemort is back. Fudge says no he's not, I mean that is textbook. He is wrong and he is wrong in the absolute worst way. So I think this is a simple one. Yes it was fucking fault, maybe it was like one or 2% someone else's fault like in the Ministry, like Crouch, I don't know because he could have said something or anything like that but then he was dead so it wasn't really his fault. But then there's so many people that you could go into here but I think the main reason that the ministry went down such a bad dark path was because Fudge was too scared to really admit the truth. I mean not only to himself, which is of course the main issue here but also to the rest of the world. Because as Minister of Magic it is his responsibility to keep everyone safe and also inform everyone of dangers that are on the horizon. So he would not want to break the new he's like yeah, it's going to rain in Bristol, and there's going to be some cloudy forecast over London today. And, oh, yeah, the dark lord is back. Like, that's not a message you want to give to people. So I think that was a bad example. But this whole situation really is Fudges to handle, which is why I gave him some credit, because I would not want to be in that situation, to be the only person who has the ability to change and the only person they have to blame. I mean, whatever, like 45 million people have to blame. So at this point, I assume it's less. They only have to blame Fudge, and Fudge does not want that. He wants to be reelected, and he wants to live out his career, and you remember it as a legend, which is stupid. It is an idiotic move, because what he doesn't understand is that he will be killed and the world will be destroyed if he doesn't act, if he doesn't make the unpopular opinion, if he doesn't break the bad piece of news. He is chronically short sighted, which I think is the root of his problem. He can't see past himself. He is not exactly narcissistic, but he is so selfcentered. Not that he gives himself compliments and he loves himself so much, it's just that he is such a selfcentered person. He cares about moving himself forward and bettering himself, which I suppose is somewhat narcissistic, but I don't know, is there such a thing as selfless narcissism? Because I think he wants to better himself so he can better lead the country, which is a good reason I say I better myself, so I can be a better person, I guess, I suppose. But at this point, it just becomes harmful because what he is doing is like he's trying to pet a tiger, which is Voldemort. He's saying, all right, just stay there for just stay there. I'm going to get reelected. And once I'm peacefully in the ground, once I'm peacefully passed on, maybe you can make your move. He's asking Voldemort to wait, which is I don't know how you even think that's something that would work. So Fudge, yes, it was all Fudge's fault. And along those same lines, if Fudge is not those things that we said he was, if he's not short sighted and self centered and slightly narcissistic, would Voldemort have won? That is kind of the main question of the day that I was really thinking about here. Would Voldemort have one? If Fudge had been better. If Fudge had been quicker. If he had been smarter. If he had been more long sighted. If he had had the future in mind. If he had listened to dumbledore. If he had cared about his country more than himself. If he'd done all these things. If he was better. If he was smarter. If he was all these different things that he could have done better. Would all the world have one? No. Not a simple one that is the answer to this question if Fudge had acted quicker Voldemort would not have one and that's why I like these kinds of questions because there's a very simple answer I don't think Fudge would have been as floundering and full of denial and just again short sighted in the future books if he had just come to terms that if I don't get reelected fine. But at least there will be people to not re elect me if he had that mindset the world would have been much smoother there would not have been a battle of Hogwarts there would not have been jailbreaks and murders. Mass murders and all these different things snatchers everywhere the world and shambles that would not have been the world if Fudge had just said Voldemort is back if he had done it. If he had said that. If Dumbledore had said the same thing the world would have been so much better off and it is a absolute change I fudge did not because that would have been so much better for everyone I mean the world would have been more prepared voldemort would have been caught off guard not only because he not thinks much. Would accept Eldor's advice but also because Voldemort does not have much of a force he has 13 people total no. That's not going to fly. He's very powerful but the combined forces of the Ministry of Magic and Dumbledore and all the students of Hogwarts are in my opinion enough to defeat him and of course at this point Dumbledore has been educated of Voldemort's Horcruxes for a while so he would just say hey Harry. Start looking for Hort cruxes and it wouldn't have been on the same scale he wouldn't have sent them off he actually might have come with them because he was alive at this point he might have told them more he might have been finding them quicker because Dumbledore is with them they wouldn't have had to get captured that malfoy matter because one Malfoy would have been on the run and Voltmer would not have been unable to meet there but Belicher would not have been out of jail and Narcissa would have been living alone which means that she would likely be arrested too because she was also a death theater the bottom line of this before we move into our last talking point here really is Fudge made an absolutely do do a stupid mistake and I think it would have been so much better off if he had just said if all the doorst is back to the world but alas he did not and before we end this episode we have one more thing to discuss something I was really thinking about and a question I couldn't answer and that is who could have been a better minister of Magic. Now of course we all go dumbledore dumbledore, easy peasy but I don't want to make this easy peasy. I want to kind of move away from that because, of course, Dumbledore would have been a better minister by far. He would have been better than anyone, really. So who could have been better than that? Well, I was thinking I was thinking who could have done it? Because we don't know that many people honestly, we don't know that many people who are capable, who are of age, because we can just put her Miami as the minister already and who are ready to do it, because we can't just shove someone in like Arthur Weasley was my next thought. But she's not ready to be minister of magic. He has his little department with that other wizard. It's like pretty much a closet. And then Dumbledore goes, hey, want to be minister? Like, no, he would be fantastic, I'm sure, but it would have been such a strain on him, and he would have, I mean, in the end of more of a hurt than a health because of how much he's struggling through the position. So who could have done it? Who could have been a better minister than Fudge? I mean, this is a tough one because it takes a lot. You have to be disciplined, but you have to be kind. I mean, the perfect dictator, really, because, of course, in any situation, the perfect, you know, a perfectly moral dictator is the absolute perfect leader of anything. So who could that be? Oh, yeah, I got it. It is McGonigal. McGonigal would be the perfect minister. Of course, we wouldn't have an awesome transfiguration teacher and a head of Gryffindor house in Hogwarts, but she would be an awesome minister of magic. So there we go. That's my answer. I think McGonigal would have been so much better. And plus her and Dumbledore, like, besties. It would have been easy for Dumbledore say, hey, can you publish this in the paper tomorrow? Just as a little favorite, too, to go? Fine, you know, whatever. And also, the Hogwarts and Mystery would be working together so much better. This is a really perfect world. Why didn't Dumbledore put McGonagle in that position? Come on. Come on, Dumbledore boy. Well, that's actually the perfect answer to that question. McGonagle, wow. Do you agree with me? I want to know, because I don't know if I'm really spitting facts here, if I'm spitting bars or if I'm not going to say that again, or if this is just kerfuffle. This is nothing to you. So send me an email thepotterdiscusion@gmail.com that is thepotterdiscusion@gmail.com to let me know. Or you can send me a DM at the positivesk Instagram or at Potterdiscus on Twitter. And again, you want to check out more information. You want to see the website under construction? Go ahead and look up thepotterscription.com that feels so awesome to say thepotterscription.com. I will be trying to populate it a little bit so you will see some stuff. Up there in about Page, maybe some episodes and some announcements. Just some very general stuff. But check it out, give me some feedback. And of course the contact forms and the speed pipe and all that kind of stuff will go on there soon. So thank you for everyone listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed again feedback. Anything? I just listed marauders episode two, Toby and June. Like I said before, it's coming soon. Thank you for that submission. And that's it. So I always remember that's a happiness can be found even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light. I'll see you later.

VO:
This was The Potter Discussion.