Anxiety, Parenting & Bringing Them Closer with Connie Jakab

Want to make the world a better place but come home to children experiencing anxiety or depression?  

Not sure what to do?  Feeling overwhelmed with the weight of creating a better world and also figuring out how to support your own children in their own mental health journey? 

Right now anxiety and depression are on the rise in America, and it is starting earlier and earlier than we ever understood before.  

Join us as we welcome mental health advocate, community organizer, public school assembly speaker, and train-the-trainer coach, Connie Jakab as she tells us her story through parenting, anxiety and depression, and what she is now doing to make an practical impact in her community!  She also shares some self-care tricks she practices for her own wellbeing!  You won't want to miss this. 

Transcript

Anxiety, Parenting, & Bring Them Closer with Connie Jakab

Intro/Outro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Practice Good. The podcast that empowers change makers to give good and live good. Here is your host, Shiloh Karshima, social entrepreneur, corporate trainer, and former pastor. Join us as we explore the intersection of social impact and soul care!

Shiloh: We are so excited and we have the privilege of Connie Jacob joining us today. She's the author of Bring Them Closer, a book that teaches families and teachers how to bring children closer when they're going through trauma or fear or anxiety. It has been a huge support in my own parenting journey, especially as a social impact leader.

And it has been fun for me to walk alongside and watch Connie's journey as she speaks and uses the art of hip hop to bring out bravery over anxiety in adults and children alike. She speaks for school assemblies, she teaches teachers and parents how to do this thing called bringing them closer well, and I am so honored and so thrilled that she would spend time with us today.

Why don't we welcome Connie Jacob? 

Tell us more about your work and your passion for your work and how you got to this place. 

Connie: I've been nerding out on this concept of belonging creates resilience for the last 25 years and was working in schools, uh, doing a lot of work in mental health and resilience using hip hop, uh, as a way to teach that and hosted about a 20 year social experiment on what did we notice created more anxiety, And what did we notice created more bravery?

And it was a very enlightening social experiment to do over the last 20 years and, and have just started getting back into schools doing it again, because now things have shifted a little bit. Kids are experiencing a lot more. And so this is something that I love doing. I now work more with parents as well, and with teachers really trying to, uh, create a really strong village for these kids.

And so if I can, [00:01:00] Help parents, teachers and workplaces, then I think that these kids might be okay. 

Shiloh: Tell us a little bit more about this experiment. Is bravery like the opposite of anxiety or like, what are, what are you finding and what does it look like and how are you finding this? 

Connie: Well, it was interesting. So after I would teach them a little bit of, of, of dance movement, I would put them in a circle and in hip hop, that's called a cypher. And I would, I would just mention to all of them, everyone's going to get a chance to go into the middle to dance. And I would look to the person on my right. And if they went in, you know, it was interesting.

The collective would start to go in too. I mean, there was always a couple that wouldn't, but, you know, we, we really noticed that the collective always wins. That was one of the, the noticings that I had is that if the, if the majority were willing to put themselves out there, then, then that would follow.

But if, if yeah. say everybody who, at least the first two people, [00:02:00] they wouldn't go in, then the chances of everybody else going in, it was just the odd brave one. But what was very interesting was, was when there was those who did go in, I would always ask them, what got you into the middle of the circle?

And they'd always at first say, well, I thought we had to go in. I'm like, no, no, no. I said everyone's going to get a chance to go in. It's, it's called mummy manipulation. 

Shiloh: I love it. 

Connie: Once they realize, they're like, Oh, you didn't say we had to. I'm like, no, but what got you in? Because you would not go in. I know teenagers, they would not go in if they really didn't want to.

So I'm like, what really got you in? And the answers were always the same. If they felt like the vibe. Was was positive that people had their back that people were leaning in. They weren't disengaged. They weren't looking at their friends talking about what they're going to eat for lunch. They they were they were contributing to the collective circle and cheering people on.

If they didn't think that they were going to be judged [00:03:00] that they could try and risk and not fail, then then they were more courageous. And what was so interesting and what blew me away was that kids would come up to me afterwards and say, no, you don't understand, like I've been diagnosed with severe social anxiety.

And I'm like, well, when you're in the middle of a circle dancing like that, I don't know, maybe that's just a part of you and not all of you. And it would blow them away and teachers, it blew them away too. And I just thought to myself, it really showed me that the environment creates, it will either, you know, accentuate Anxiety or it will keep it under wraps and even allow something like bravery to rise in us that we're more brave than we think.

Shiloh: Ooh, I love this. So how does this play out? I mean, I see the experiment. You're, you're doing it. You call it a siphon. Is that what it's called? I'm guessing a cipher. It's kind of like a, like you siphon out the bravery in people. I love it. [00:04:00] But like, so you've got this circle, you've got kids that are coming in and dancing, some that still kind of aren't ready for that.

Like how do you take that and apply that to everyday life? How does that translate to these young ones and families trying to raise kids in confidence and bravery? And, you know, especially during these times where anxiety and depression are like on the rise with our young ones. 

Connie: Well, again, it really showed me that, you know, you can have a genetic of, of anxiety, depression, all those things, but it really showed me the science that I study in, in mental health and resilience of that environment really is the contributor to whether that's going to rule somebody's life or whether that's just going to be a part of their life that they just need to manage.

And, and so the environments that we create in our home, uh, one of the books that I wrote, Bring Them Closer, was, is all about peace in my heart translates to peace in my home. In order to manage the anxiety in my [00:05:00] kids, I need to manage my own first. And because I create the vibe, I, I call parents, we're the vibe creators.

We are the culture creators of our homes and, and the environment isn't created by nice decor, it's created by emotion. And if I don't really know how to manage my own emotion, then I can't really handle theirs. And then we have a, uh, an emotional atmosphere of, of maybe what all of us were raised in is walking on eggshells.

Um, maybe more of a Katy Perry song, you know, you're hot, then you're cold. You're yes, then you're no. It's like, that's, that's the kind of mom I was, you know, what is mom in today? And. And, and so realizing that the environments we create in our homes, our classrooms, our workplaces is probably the greatest, uh, thing that we can, we can focus on when it comes to keeping mental health issues such as anxiety that's become pathological, uh, under wraps.

Uh, actually keeping it right where it needs to be, which is not [00:06:00] ruling over someone's life. 

Shiloh: I feel like it's so applicable to my life. And as a social impact leader, I wonder if others also deal with these kind of things. Cause especially when you're going out into the world and you're trying to solve these big social problems and issues, you tend to bring it home too.

And then you go, wait, how am I raising like anxious kids? Like I'm trying to create a better world. Like let's all love each other. And then you come home and you're like, I know I'm contributing to this somehow. How did you get into all this? Is there a story behind it? What caused you to be curious about this topic and what led here?

Connie: Well, you know, it's interesting. I was in full-time ministry. I was a, I was a children's pastor in a, in an inner city work and would visit kids and families in their homes. I, I actually had a best bus ministry busing the kids in and, um, really started to think like, how do we engage in community more? And I found a lot of red tape around the church ministry side of it.

So I thought, that's it. [00:07:00] I'm just gonna go create my own thing. And as I was out there working more than in mental health and, and, and addiction and actually opened my own hip hop studio in the city I was living in, and got, you know, was working with drug dealers and gang members and getting those kids off the streets, and then eventually got into schools and working in schools.

I just started to really notice. Like, we need to do something here. And that's kind of how I got into the work. And then our own family went through a bit of a mental health crisis with one of my boys. And I think of all the things that I've learned in my whole career, all the books I've read, the courses I've taken, the education I have, was nothing compared to what I had to learn just living it out in my own house.

Shiloh: Wow. Yeah, I think so much of what we do outwardly sometimes just stays outward. And then you kind of go, Oh, wait, how does this affect me personally? And, and it's a whole, you can know the right [00:08:00] answers, but when it's, when it's your own, it's a little bit different story than having all the right answers, but being able to implement that and, , kind of breathe a different way and breathe in love rather than forcing it into the world, I guess.

You wrote this book, "Bring Them Closer." Talk to us a little bit more about that. And what does that look like for parents, for teachers, for this idea of creating an environment that you're talking about? 

Connie: For sure. So it was, uh, it was basically everything that I Went through as a parent and how I was, uh, how I was going to help my, my son, um, the whole title, bring them closer came from when I took him to the hospital, he was suicidal at age eight, if you can believe that, and that blew my brain in itself, because my husband and I, we've been married 24 years, we love Jesus, we're fantastical.

I hope we're good people, like we're, you just, you know, it was just mind boggling for us how [00:09:00] our son could suffer. And when I brought him to the hospital, the psychologist said to me, what do you do when your son is throwing fits of rage? Uh, because depression for him did not show up as sadness. It showed up as anger because oftentimes these little guys, they don't know how to express their emotions.

They're eight. Sure. And, and so I remember telling her, well, I send him to his room. Yeah, that's, and, and you can't come out until you're ready to be a good boy. That's how I was raised. I'm a Gen Xer. I was raised by the gospel of fear, really. Yeah, me too. I thought I was being a good mom and she said, Oh no, you never send the hurting away from you.

You bring them closer. Wow. And. I wish I would have known in that moment what she was talking about, but three weeks later came home from the hospital with medication with a counselor. I mean, hey, we got the holy trinity of mental health, apparently medication, counseling and Jesus, like, isn't that just the answer?

Right. But I really realized [00:10:00] that there was going to be so much more to it that medication and counseling really only account for about 20% of someone's mental health Uh, health journey. It's kind of like going to the gym. You know, I, if I do all my squats and I, and I do my exercise, but I'm just eating pizza and junk, you know, what I eat is about 80%, which is so sad.

Um, 80% of my, my recovery, my, my, my results. And it's the same thing in mental health. Uh, the 80% is the environments that we create. And I was about to learn and get schooled how to create this environment because I wasn't doing that before. I didn't have a grip on my own emotions. And so the things that I cover in my book are how did I, how did I manage my own anxiety?

How did I come to grips with my own emotions? How did I learn my own emotional regulation? Behavior is communication. How did I learn how to look what's under behavior? How did I let go of the need to [00:11:00] control? Um, how did I, resilience is in the repair. How do, how do we repair our relationships and really go into quite a vulnerable journey of what this was like for me and what I learned and, and how that actually moved us forward as a family.

How did your son 

Shiloh: respond to these changes you were making? And I'm sure it wasn't overnight. It probably took some 

Connie: time. Yeah, it was about a year, to be honest, of just intentionally every day showing up, um, not sending away. Sitting there with with him and just being okay with not having any answers or not trying to not trying to change his behavior That was the biggest thing for me is is I'm not here to change your behavior And actually I really felt the Lord speak to me while I'm sitting there in in this mess.

I I felt God say to me, I don't send you away when you're broken. I actually bring you very [00:12:00]close. I lean you on my chest and it's on my chest where you're healed and, and, and just keep coming back to me and allowing me to love you. And so I'm getting wrecked in the love of God. Yes, but yeah, and it was interesting.

I often will tell people it wasn't, it wasn't anyone else in our family that really needed to change. I actually believe it was me because from there we were able to move forward, which was great. 

Shiloh: I, it reminds me of. We went through some stuff with one of my children and I, I have a spiritual director from my undergraduate school.

He was my pastoral leadership, um, pastoral care and counseling professor. So I've met with him about every few months ever since then for the last. Decade or so. And I called him one time and I just said, look, I'm struggling with my daughter. Here's what's going on, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, instead of being frustrated by it, maybe see if God is kind of using her as like an [00:13:00] intercessor for your family.

So like when she's, she, you know, she's acting out or doing all these things, maybe that's kind of a litmus test for like when your family is kind of pushing too hard or going too much. Even to a way that you've like learned how to push all that down and you don't even feel it anymore, but she doesn't know how to push that down.

So she just like explodes in whatever's going on. And so I took that and I was like, okay, so the next time something happened, I. Like I just started trying to practice like the discipline of being thankful for what we were experiencing and what she was going through and it took a long time. But I've definitely seen a shift in things.

Um, and it was just such a huge lesson for me. And what I realized is like. So much of what we experience with our children is directly affected to what we are emotionally going through ourselves. All the things she would experience, I was actually feeling in those moments, but I'm so like [00:14:00] adultified that I can say the right things and do the right things and feel the right things and convince myself, but she couldn't do all of that.

And so it was like, she was this little girl, like my insides on the outside. And I was able to just be like, what would I have needed during that time? And it was such a healing experience for us. We still go through it, but. It reminds me a lot of what you're saying, this idea of bring them closer, because I was doing the same thing.

I was like, go to your room and come out when you have a better attitude. 

Connie: Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. 

Shiloh: Which is, isn't that the message we were all, I mean, I was given that message too. , I know how to put on a good attitude, but I have a harder time to identify. The hard times and the, and I remember being in counseling in college, being like, I'm feeling sad today and they'd be like, why?

And I'm like, well, it doesn't matter why I can't articulate it. It's just feelings like, no, it does matter. Even if you can't articulate it, even if you don't know, it's still valid and just kind of having to walk back through that with your kids. Especially as people who want a better world, you want everybody to be happy, and now your kids aren't?

Like, how dare they? [00:15:00]

Connie: Yeah, of all people, there's a lot of shame that goes along with parenting, because we think, well, if I was, I don't know if you've thought this, but I thought this, if I was a better mom, my kids wouldn't suffer. If I did this, and I just sunk into, if I only was more of a fill in the blank, and that wasn't true at all. In fact, a lot of the mental health issues we're seeing, I mean, it's no respecters of persons, but when you're in it and your child is suffering, you think, if I was just doing a better job, this wouldn't be happening. That's, and that's so not true, but it's what I believed for a while. 

Shiloh: I absolutely believe that for so long. I would say probably even till about last year. I mean, my mother lived with me and she was like a huge help. And I just feel like she's the best mom in the world. And we're so close. She's my best friend. And so for me, I always used to tell her, I'm like, my kids should have had you as a mom. They shouldn't have me.

They should have had you. And I don't remember who told me this, but they said something along the lines of you are exactly [00:16:00] who God needed your children to have as a mother. And that just like blew me away. Cause I thought. Well, maybe I can create nonprofit programs and I can do all these things. But like, when it comes to parenting, like, I just can't get it right.

I just keep missing the mark. But that's so good. It's so healing. Just even the title of your book, like to bring them closer is like such a very tangible experience that you're like, Okay, I can try this today. I can try it tomorrow. It just seems very tangible. Is that how people receive it? I know you have several versions of this book. You have it for teachers and other things. You know, how is the community, how are people receiving the work that you're doing? 

Connie: It, it's really interesting, uh, they do love the title and, uh, when I tell the story, everyone has the same reaction, they're like, Oh, and, and I had the same reaction.

It's kind of interesting how it's almost like they're in that psychologist's office with me. And the same kind of breath that I took when she said that to [00:17:00] me is the breath that people take when I share the story, which I find very interesting. Where I find, um, the gap is people are like, that sounds fantastic, but how does this work?

And which is, which is why I wrote the book, because I got tired of telling the story and people wanting to know, well, tell me what, how does, what does that even look like? And, but I had to go through it first in order to, to write that. 

Shiloh: Let's talk about anxiety because I feel like that's behind all of this depression, anxiety, what have you learned in your work and your study and your experiment?

I mean, things that potentially we don't talk about, or maybe we do talk about, but we don't focus on enough. Yeah, I'm just interested in how this all works because I feel like when I was a child, this was not a regular term. And now it's being used a lot. So I think in my older years, like in the past, probably six or so years, I've said, I think I might have a little bit of anxiety [00:18:00] and I'm not familiar with this.

And this is like, how does this work and how does it, you know, how do you cope with this and create skills around it? But what is it that you've learned in your journey? Uh, 

Connie: well, I've certainly learned that, that those of us who grew up in that time when emotions, we didn't talk about it. It's like, you just go to school, you just go to work, you just do as you're told, nod your head and, and just, just keep going.

Uh, now kids aren't willing to do that. They're like, no, I actually feel really, I feel physically sick. I don't want to go to school. I don't want to push through anything that's hard. And it's almost like we've swung the other way. Um, in my in my research and in what I read and and studied in people, a lot of it is just needing to come back to the idea that emotions are are good for us and that things like anxiety is a is a warning signal.

it's like an alarm, like ding, ding, ding, pay attention, pay [00:19:00] attention, something's not quite right. And it would be no different than if I was out for a run and I twisted my ankle. And if I was listening to that physical warning signal, I would, I would probably stop running and go home and rest so that it could recover.

And then I could run again. So, but what's so interesting is that we don't do that with emotions like depression or anxiety or even anger. Anger is such an alarm and it's usually bodyguarding something else. Um, we don't really look at these emotions. We don't, we don't pay attention to them because it's like, no, no, I'm just going to keep going.

But then the same thing happens to us if we keep running with a sprained ankle. It eventually turns into an injury. And it's the same thing with our emotions, you know, now all of a sudden, you know, I'm, I'm diagnosed with an anxiety disorder because I didn't listen to it way back when it was just a warning signal.

And now I'm on medication because it needs attention. Um, so I do believe that I, and I'm really [00:20:00] grateful that we're as a society and even as churches and Christians, we're starting to look more at. These things aren't bad. It's not bad for us to feel anxiety, anxiousness, and even depression. My favorite book on depression is Lost Connections by Johan Hari.

It's a fantastic book. He, he studies, uh, depression all over the world. So not just North America. Wow. And what he found was that depression was often linked with a disconnection with people, a disconnection with meaningful work and purpose and I'm like, you know, it's just the best book out there. And again, it, it goes against that disease model that says you have a, a biological deficiency.

You do not. It's another favorite of mine is Dr. Carolyn Leaf. She really goes really deep into, it's not a disease. It's. We can actually do so much, uh, to change, uh, our neural pathways to, to be wired towards things like bravery and [00:21:00] perseverance and, and love. 

Shiloh: As a leader and an expert in resilience and belonging do you have some self care, soul care tips or things that you just kind of fall back on practices that help you to kind of keep moving forward or maybe not just keep moving forward, but also slow down and take notice of when you're experiencing certain things?

Connie: Yeah, I have to to go to for myself. You know, one is I love to go on what I call listening walks. Okay, where I just I go for a walk. And I don't listen to anything. I don't listen to music. I don't listen podcast, nothing. I just listen to the sounds around me. And it just kind of calms down my somatic nervous system.

So that I'm just In the present moment, deeply noticing what's going on inside of me and around me. And I find that, um, a lot of, a lot of experts right now say that it's our stressful environment that's actually breeding [00:22:00] anxiety in us and in our kids. And so it just allows me to, to pause and not allow stress to be my main go to.

So that is a great practice. And I, and I love it. Um, another one is, is a little coaching practice. I, I do to myself every day. I ask myself, Connie, what is your resting emotional state right now? Like, how are you feeling? And sometimes as humans, you know, we might feel anxious, but we also might feel joy in the same moment because we're such paradoxes as humans.

So I'll just acknowledge the emotions that I'm feeling in the moment. And then I asked myself, okay, if that emotion was a, is a, is a sentence, what is it saying? So for example, if I'm feeling anxious, you know, maybe the sentence is, I can't do this. I don't know if I can do this. So now I'm identifying a thought.

And then from there, I asked myself, what behaviors am I noticing coming out as a result of those emotions and those thoughts? And, [00:23:00] you know, an example of a behavior could be, well, I notice I'm really disengaging from people. And just by noticing those three things, emotion, thought, and behavior, I'm bringing it into the light.

Uh, and then to anchor myself at the end, I, I ask myself, what strengths have, have risen in me from the adversities of my life? I remind myself of, oh, oh yeah, bravery that that came through fire that came through hard situations so that I'm not just like, Oh my goodness, I got to these emotions and thoughts and behaviors.

Oh no, um, lions, lions and tigers and bears. Oh my. But now I've got this anchor that, okay, you know what, I might be feeling and thinking and behaving those ways in this moment, but remember where you've come from. Remember what God has formed in you through fire and remember who you are. And I find if I do that daily, it just gives me an emotional awareness and an emotional intelligence that allows me to [00:24:00] be emotionally regulated for those around me.

Shiloh: It reminds me of when I was a kid and being scared at night of all the shadows and then all it does is take a flip of the switch and you go, Oh, that shadow is not a monster. It's just my T shirt on the hanger. But like saying those emotions, acknowledging them and going, Okay. I don't have to fix them, they're not gonna kill me, they're not gonna eat me up, let's just bring it to the light, look at it as it is, and let it, let's just sit with it.

Let's just drive the car with it in the passenger seat and just hang out a little bit and realize we're gonna be okay, you know? , I drive around a lot with a lot of, Different emotional friends, I guess.

Okay. So I did, I want to end with something very fun. I went through your social media and you talk about so many encouraging things, so many emotional things. And I wrote down some like words, like some keywords that just, I can see that you're like passionate about or things that you've talked about.

So let's play a game. I'm going to throw a word at you and then you tell me one [00:25:00] word or one phrase or one sentence that first pops into your head. Okay. Okay. All right, here we go. 

Confidence. 

Connie: Bravery. 

Shiloh: Ooh, my next one was being brave. 

Connie: Oh, deeply rooted. 

Shiloh: Okay. Swimming upstream.

Connie: Oh, rebelling against the status quo.

Shiloh: Ooh, good. Educational systems. 

Connie: Needing to be revamped. 

Shiloh: Oh, I like that. Being uniquely you. 

Connie: Freedom. 

Shiloh: Ooh. Bring them closer. 

Connie: Loving. Keeping your love on, really. Yeah. 

Shiloh: Keeping your love on. Ooh, I like that. That could be a whole book. Keeping your love on. Hip hop! 

Connie: Ooh, groovy! 

Shiloh: Yes! Yes! The power of community. 

Connie: Solving problems.

Shiloh: I love it. 

Changing your life. 

Connie: Autonomy. 

Shiloh: Ooh. Uh, let's see. I'm going to pick one [00:26:00] more. How about speaking your message? 

Connie: Uh, emancipation. 

Shiloh: Oh, what?

You're going to have to explain so we don't like make up stories. 

Connie: Oh, liberate, liberate others. 

Shiloh: I love it. Liberation, liberating others, freedom, walking in freedom. That's so good. That's so good. Connie, thank you for joining us. If people wanna get ahold of you or they wanna hear you speak, or they wanna book you to speak, or they wanna learn more or order your book, what do they do?

Where do they go? How do they find you? 

Connie: They can go to conniejakab.com. My last name's a weird last spelling. It's j a k a B. Uh, that's my social media. Uh, my email is connie@conniejakab.com. I try to make it simple. 

Well, thank you so much for joining us. I know I learned so much and it just really helped think through some things, even with my own kids.

And I'm sure so many people, especially on here who are social impact leaders, kind of working through some of the same things in their own family and their own life personally with anxiety and things like that. And this has been a [00:27:00] huge help. So thank you for joining us. We had so much fun. 

Intro/Outro: Thank you for tuning in.

We hope this episode has given you some valuable insights and inspiration for your social impact journey. If you enjoyed the show, let us know, follow and leave a review, [00:27:00] and don't forget to share the fun with your friends and followers. Now go out there and create some positive change!