Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Chelsea, Corruption and Qualification
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Is the Premier League corrupt? Will Everton qualify for Europe? Is Liam Rosenior actually an AI? We answer all these questions and more.
Welcome Back And Everton Optimism
SPEAKER_00Welcome to episode 90 of the Blues Brothers Everton Podcast. I was going to say an infrequent Everton podcast, so it's been a while since we've been together back again. Andy and uh Adam are here. My daughter Clementine's here. You might hear her in the background as well, playing dad right now. And Ben's gonna join us. He's uh he has a one-month old, so is currently nap trap, but he's gonna come join us when he can. So uh good to be here. Pretty good time to be at Evertonian, I would say. We're gonna talk about that a little bit. We're gonna talk about we're recording this on Thursday, a couple of days before we play Chelsea uh at home on Saturday, which is gonna be an interesting one. Um, so Andy Adam, I'll Andy, I'll start with you. How are you doing? How are you feeling? How are you feeling about Everton?
SPEAKER_01I'm good, thank you. Yeah, I'm um currently um in a caravan in Southport, recording a podcast from a caravan, not for the first time. Um, because I'm going to the Chelsea game on Saturday with with Dad. So we've and my wife and I have made a long weekend out of it. Um it's a great time to be an Evertonian. I mean, I think if you look at where we are now, obviously compared to the previous four or five seasons, um it's great to be comfortably mid-table and looking up. I mean, it's Tottenham's turn this season to be having kittens and looking at fixtures, thinking where their next points are going to come from. And it's fantastic not to be in that position. Um, and I think as well, if you look at the squad of players we've got and the ones that are currently fit, or most of them are generally fit, I know Grantway obviously was absent in the last match, but uh I think Moyes is getting pretty much everything possible, or almost everything possible out of this group of players. We can argue, which I'm sure we will in the podcast, about whether he's putting so many square pegs in round holes, but in terms of league position, I think it's going as well as it realistically can do at this moment in time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I agree. I want to talk the Tom I think's fascinating. We should talk about that in a bit. But Adam, how are you doing? Tell us how you feel about being a blue right now.
SPEAKER_05I'm good, thank you. Uh yeah, it's great to be back and doing these uh these podcasts again. Obviously, I've just mentioned uh just before we start recording, this is only our second since uh October. So uh um, and obviously you know it's getting increasingly uh more difficult for us to get together like this, so it's good to do the podcast, but also good for three of the three of the four of us for now to be uh together um doing this. So um hopefully Ben can join us um uh a bit later on. Um yeah, it's um it's lovely, as Andrew um alluded to. Uh it's brilliant to be Evertonian um right now and then look at how the teams uh that that are fairing and looking at a another big club like Spurs and uh how how they're um and they're struggling. It's just lovely to sit eighth and not having to worry about anything and looking at you know what's the what's the worst thing that can happen to us that we don't get Europe, which we may or may not want. Um yeah, it's uh all rosy, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00I I'm now I'm fascinated. We'll get on to everything. I'm fascinated by the Spurs thing. Like, do you think they're gonna go down? We won't I promise we won't spend too much time on this, but do you think do you think Spurs are gonna get relegated? I mean, God knows what this means. We're we're their last game of the season. Um I mean, normally we have our flip-flops on for the last game, but the irony if we're the ones to send Spurs down on the last day would be like unbelievable. And I honestly don't know how I feel about it because there's a certain glee that we can all take, and I'm sure lots of other fans took at the prospect of us getting relegated, but also I I just we just know how those Spurs fans are feeling right now, and it's the worst. But do you think it'll do you think they'll be okay or do you think they'll get relegated?
SPEAKER_05I I don't think they will. I think they've just got too good a squad.
SPEAKER_00Um are you saying they are in fact too good to go down?
SPEAKER_05I I am in fact, I I think they're just I think they are I think they just have too good a squad, and they've obviously got they're gonna have a good number of players that are gonna come back. The only thing that I think would do is because Iger Tudor is such a bin fire of a manager, uh, that's the only thing that I can think where he like sets them up so badly tactically that they are just so suffocated that their natural talent doesn't allow them to uh to to win enough games. Because they're on 29 points, and it's fair to say that the over the last couple of seasons, obviously, that the the number of points that would keep you up has been the lowest it's been in a long, long time. Um and uh so but you look at so you're looking at high 30s is what will keep you up. I think the team that'll come 18th will probably get anything between I think a minimum will get uh a minimum of of like 35, 36 points, and then you're looking at possibly for the first time a team um going down with even 40 points, and that is possible. But I think I don't think they will go down. I just think I will call it that. I think they're just too good um to uh to go down. But um there is that sort of it would just be funny, wouldn't it? It'd be funny, and there's nothing against Spurs. I've got nothing. I like I like Spurs as a club, um, you know, and I like their fans. Um and there's you know there's certain similarities with with us um in in in a lot of respects. Um I just think it just that that stadium, the size of that club, and also the fact that they you know they they piggybacked onto the uh the the Super League with absolutely no sort of um like clout or evidence that they warranted any such um position amongst those top European sides, which is absolutely again was absolutely horrific in its in its um in the in the shortness of uh that it lived. It was um it was a stupid idea and it'll probably come back, but they had absolutely no right to do that. So it's that that is very, very funny. Um and it's just but it what it does do, I think, is is really provide a really stark reminder to other teams, and Everton have been at this uh have been this as well, where it only takes a couple of bad bad decisions over a few years to realise that how fragile your uh how fragile you can be actually on the pitch. Because they've got objectively a really good squad, but they've got so many players out that those players have then come in, and then you don't have the the right, you don't bring in the right manager, and then you don't you don't necessarily play the right the right tactics, and then we're seeing over the last few league games what uh what huge um issues that confident lack of confidence can bring. Um so I think it they're they're they're they're providing the league with a really good idea of like actually, you know, we can't allow ourselves to get into that position. Um and uh there'll be a lot of boardrooms and a lot of managers and a lot of sets of players in the Premier League looking at that and going, you know, we do not want to be in that sort of that sort of situation. Um so it is possible that they go down. I just don't think that they will.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they've spent, I mean, they've they've spent so much money as well. I mean, that I was just reading something the other day there, only Chelsea, Man United, and Man City, I think, have had a like a net spend higher than Spurs in the last like five years, like nuts.
SPEAKER_05Uh they spend loads of sorry to interrupt interrupt, they spend loads and loads of money, but they just they have such a poor wage, their their wage parity is not what um to the the the clubs that they are trying to compete against. And it's a good example of how you know we've all read soconomics, like the biggest indicator of um um of of how well a club is going to do is wages, and it always has been and always will be, um as a as a general rule of as a rule of thumb. And Spurs have, yes, they've spent loads and loads of money, but they're paying, but they're spending like 60 million quid on players like Dominic Solanke, who is a decent striker, but he's not the top sort of striker that a tea a club like Spurs will need.
SPEAKER_00So they overpay. Um Ben's joined us.
SPEAKER_03Ben, how are you doing? I am good, thank you.
SPEAKER_02I'm currently feeding a small human, so apologies for any uh grunts or noises that you hear in the background. I promise it's the tiny human, not me. Um I yeah, I'm good. Uh we're talking about Spurs. It'd be so funny, wouldn't it? It'd be so funny. Like, like, I I I wonder if this is how some fans felt about when we were kind of kicking around down there. Um and it was just like, oh, it'd be really funny if Everton went down. And it would be like really funny on stilts if Spurs went down. Because like, I think Andy, you've mentioned this before, and you may have already said this on this podcast because I only joined when Adam was talking. But if you go to Lincoln Stadium, Lincoln are currently top of League One and they're gonna go into the championship, right? You look at Lincoln Stadium and you look at Spurs Stadium, the idea that those two are in the same division is just that would be absolutely hilarious. Spurs Stadium could it could be Lincoln Stadium, could I just do I mean I mean yeah it would be it would be like it would be like me driving a Ferrari and then ending up in a like a race with someone who's driving our you know Metro from 1994. Like it would just be it is just comically, comically out of scale for what for what for what it is. I mean it would just be it'd be number one, again, funny on stilts, but number two, they've actually, as I haven't said, they've got quite a decent squad. I'd quite fancy a Spurs fire sale for us to pick up some players and improve our team. I mean, you'd be able to buy Richie for a tenner, like it would be it would be like the greatest fire sale football I'd ever seen. So I just think for all of these reasons it would be absolutely hilarious. I also don't think it will happen because I think Forest are a worse team than them. Um and I think Spurs are starting to maybe turn a corner. And realistically, as we know from being down there ourselves, you really only need to you know win one or two games and all of a sudden it starts to look a little bit rosier. But um, if they lose to Forest on Saturday, then that that they'd be in real trouble.
SPEAKER_03But sadly, for all of our entertainment, I don't think that's gonna happen. Andy, anything on Spurs before we move on to talking about the clubs that this podcast is ostensibly about?
SPEAKER_00And I appreciate I was the one that took us down the Spurs rabbit hole, so it's entirely my fault.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Spurs was always gonna be on the agenda at some point, so why not uh get it out of the way first? Now I'd agree with everything that uh Adam and Ben have just said, ostensibly to see a club that you know was in the Champions League final seven years ago to be playing Lincoln City and Cardiff City uh next season and have a tour of you know English provincial towns is just ostensibly hilarious. Um but I don't think as as funny as it'd be, I don't think they'll go down either, because I think they've got eight games left. You know, two wins and a draw will probably do it, three wins will definitely do it. They're capable of doing that. Having said that, the game on Saturday um against Nottingham Forest, as Ben's already mentioned, is absolutely huge. If they don't win that, then that will then um change the dynamic slightly because it will obviously put Forest two points ahead of them. Um so at the moment I think they'll just about have enough to stay up, but it is gonna be tight. I think that that 18th place, somebody's gonna go go up or stay up on 38 points, and somebody could go down with 37 because I think it's gonna be in that sort of ballpark in terms of the points totals.
Will Everton Qualify For Europe?
SPEAKER_00What a time to be alive and not one of those teams. Um all right, let's talk about Everton. Uh question of the day do you think we'll qualify for Europe?
SPEAKER_03Who comes to you first? What do you think? No. Because I'm gonna be true, the true sort of friend sitter here.
SPEAKER_02I think we'll finish eighth. I don't think that will be a European place when it all could when it all shakes out, even though I know theoretically, technically it could be. So I'm gonna go with no because I think it's quite the set of permutations that require you to for that to be there. I think we'll just fall short because I think we are we're playing well, we're playing good football, but I think if you look at the teams um certainly above us, I can't see any of you know Liverpool, Chelsea and Ovilla are on a bit of a slide. We're really competing for seventh if you look at the top six, and I think of the teams that are competing for seventh, I would say that and I know they dropped points the other day against Wolves, but like I would say that um Brentford are probably in a better position than us um in terms of how they're playing and how they're doing to qualify for that. I think Newcastle, I know they've just got absolutely tanked by Barcelona, but I think if you look at their last couple of games in the league, they're on another they're on a decent run. So I would ex they're only one point behind us. I would I I think I think we'll end I don't I think we'll end up finishing eighth, and then I think it really just comes then comes down to does eighth lead us to a European place? And I don't actually know all the permutations that are required for that to for that to be a conference league place.
SPEAKER_03Um so I'm gonna go with no unless that happens.
SPEAKER_02Does anyone want to try and does anyone know the permutations? Does anyone know what it would require?
SPEAKER_00I did have a thing with Chad GPT about it, which I ended up more confused at the end of the conversation than I did at the start. I can tell you by feeling, which is obviously exactly what you asked, is how do I feel about it? Uh, but the feeling was it was like, oh, I see that could happen.
SPEAKER_03But there's a lot. Yeah, I think uh it's I'm I'm I think there's two parts to that.
The Permutations Behind Eighth Place
SPEAKER_05I think do we do we think we will, and do we actually want to as well, is another um aspect to can to consider. Just playing devil's advocate. Let's say that we don't want us to actually qualify for Europe because we'll see a natural decline in our um in our in our um in our league form because you know Palace for a variety of reasons, but one factor of of their season is uh having you know had the best uh best part of their history uh last season is um the fact that obviously they're competing in the European Conference League uh this season and the Thursday-Sunday thing does affect um teams uh such as Everton and Um Nottingham Forest and Crystal Palace more because of the size of our squads. We just don't have the capability to be playing uh to be rotating as much in that. Um so there's that aspect of it as well. Like, do we actually want to and do we want to build on the successes of this season in the league and then uh look to really push uh for um for the Europa League instead of the Conference League next season rather than this season? Um I also don't think that we will because um the um I had a look at the sort of average uh over the five last five seasons. Um I think only in the couple I think only in a couple of the seasons has eighth place actually been a um a final position. And if we take our average our points per game, which is 1.43 currently, that and that gives us um 54 points um at the end of this season. Um so um what that means is that in only one of the fine of the last five seasons would that bring would that give you um would that give you uh would that uh make you finish uh eighth? Because in the last five seasons you've actually had to get the sick get to the 60 mark, which is two more wins than what we are projected to get. So I also just don't think we'll make it because I think there's other teams that are probably going to be uh going to be in those positions, particularly as the as the the Champions League, um those spaces for the Champions League uh hot sub because I think correct me if someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we're even guaranteed I don't think the your English teams are even guaranteed to make uh for fifth to be a Champions League place this year.
SPEAKER_00No, that's the and I was just rereading the um I was just rereading the the permutations thing I was research I was doing, and that is basically the main one. There's then stuff with the cops, but that is more likely the main thing about eighth being a European place is whether we get that fifth Champions League place, which I think I haven't got whether everyone getting absolutely hammered this week, except Liverpool, as has an effect on that, but presumably not a positive one.
SPEAKER_01It's as well, it's things like if Aston Villa win uh the Europa League and get into the Champions League that way, there's all there's all sorts of things like that that can affect.
SPEAKER_02That actually changes the Champions League spots rather than the the the Europe the way that I've just hooked it up um whilst we were talking so that we could you know answer the question rather than having you know four people discuss something they hadn't didn't understand. So the way the way it uh the way it shakes out is that on the basis that English football England still gets the fifth Champions League spot, which apparently my sweep my very quick googling suggests that we're still likely to, even though you know tankings this week um not uh put aside. The Europa League place then goes to the sixth place in the league and the winners of the FA Cup. If the winners of the FA Cup are already in a competition that's higher, then it goes to seventh in the league, and then the Carabao Cup place goes to um the Conference League place, which is through the Carabao Cup, goes to eighth because the Carabao Cup is Arsenal Man City. So essentially what needs to happen is we need to get the fifth um Champions League spot as a country, and then someone who's in that top five um or top six wins the FA Cup. I can't remember off the top of my head who is still in the FA Cup, but I I think Arsenal Man City, um I think Liverpool are still in there. So basically, someone who's in the Champions League wins the FA Cup. That would knock the Europa League place down to seventh, and then the Conference League place would go down to eighth. It then gets more complicated if Villa do some weird stuff, and like there was a there was a thing if like which obviously isn't now going to happen, but there was a weird thing if like Spurs ended up in the winning the Champions League and but didn't finish in the Champions League spots, but like that adds additional Champions League places. But basically for eight to be a European spot, the easiest route is someone in the top six wins the wins the FA Cup.
SPEAKER_03Which is as to Austin's point possible. Like possible.
SPEAKER_01Definitely, yeah. Yeah, I mean I think Liverpool and Man City are playing each other in the quarterfinals of the FA Cup, I believe.
Should Everton Want European Football?
SPEAKER_02Um the thing is Liverpool, Man City, it's Liverpool it's Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Port Vale, Southampton Arsenal, West Ham Leeds. So basically you've got City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea. Obviously, one of those is going to get eliminated because as you say, Man City and Liverpool playing each other. But you would assume that Arsenal, Chelsea make it through those, and therefore in the semi-final, you will have three of the four teams will be top, will be the tops, will be in the top five, six of the Premier League. So it is odds on that somebody um that somebody in the top six will win the win the FA Cup and therefore it would go down to eight. To Adam's point about what do we want it, I think it is like I understand that you know you look at what's happened to Paris, etc. etc. I think it's really like dangerous to sort of go, oh well, we don't want to compete this season. Because you never know when you're like, you never know when you're gonna get the opportunity to do the European games and do all of that again. So like and I know it's probably listened to this, but I know I had this conversation with Dad where Dad was very much like, oh, you know, is do we have the squad in place? Is it the right right time? Is it too early? And I'm just kind of like I don't think you should turn your nose up at the chance to be in a competition and be successful and win a trophy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02Because the rest of it will kind of work itself out. I totally understand that if you look at Power this like the Thursday something. They think can be brutal, but you know, we'll we'd be the favourites for the conference league if we bail into the conference league. And I put I'd quite like us to win a trophy in my you know memorable lifetime. I I just about remember the FA Cup.
SPEAKER_05I was playing, I mean I was I'd say sort of caveat to that by uh playing devil's advocate around uh around it. I just think it's it just captures what a lot of fans will feel. Um which is they might not necessarily want uh want to do, but um yeah, I mean I'd love to have you know Thursda the Thursday nights, you know, spanking some um you know Lithuanian side 5-0 at 200.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say uh going back spanking the young boys of Bern again, which I enjoyed tremendously the first time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean I I I'd mind you on it, is I I'd like to see us in it, you know. I'd love to be playing, you know, teams with lots of C's and Z in their name that I've got to Google to see which country they're from. Um because Ben's absolutely right, you can't pick and choose if you're Everton, you can't pick and choose when these opportunities come along. You've got to try and grab them if you can. Um and it raises the profile of the club. Having European football at the brand new stadium is something that we should aspire to, and it might be able to attract um a higher calibre of player with European football on offer as well. Again, I completely accept the other points that have been made about the pressures it puts on the squad and the Thursday Sunday schedule can be problematic, but everything being equal, I think it's something that we we should aspire to. Now, do I think we will finish if in the eighth position if eighth ends up being a European spot? I'm not sure that we will. Um we've got Chelsea on Saturday, we've still got uh Manchester City and Liverpool to play at home, we've got to play Brentford away. They spanked us 4-2 at Hill Dickinson a few months ago. So we've got some challenging fixtures between now and the end of the season. I don't think we'll finish in eighth position. I can easily see us dropping down two or three places, which will still be a very, very good season compared to the last four or five seasons. Um, but obviously, if that does happen, it will put us out of the uh European qualification picture.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's very tight, isn't it? I was looking, I was looking down like, well, like, yeah, a couple of points, you know, like you know, five points off the top six or whatever, but we're also only four points off 14th. So it it's it's gonna be uh, you know, that that last game against Spurs could be a a real crunch one where you know they've got a win to stay up or guarantee staying up, and we've got a win to guarantee getting in Europe, which I mean if we have to on the final day, if we have to beat Spurs to get into Europe and beating Spurs rel against them, that will be fucking brilliant.
SPEAKER_02I would absolutely agree with that.
SPEAKER_05Who who but the thing is, who's got more power? Like can ever how what's more powerful? Everton Evertoning or Spurs Spursying.
SPEAKER_00This is the ultimate test. This is this is the ultimate test.
SPEAKER_01This is the ultimate yeah, no, this is the like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, unstoppable force meets the irresistible object, or whatever that phrase is. Like it's it's a good point. Like, who can ultimately the irrit?
SPEAKER_02Sorry, the irresistible object.
SPEAKER_00I think I said the irrefutable object, which makes even less sense.
SPEAKER_02Unstoppable force, unstoppable force, immovable, immovable object with.
Chelsea Fine And Premier League Justice
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Ben. Yes, and failing. Yeah, no, you're right. It's like who can be the ultimate fuck up, Everton or Spurs? Fantastic. Um, all right, let's talk. Speaking of fog ups, let's talk about Chelsea. Um, who are I'm tremendously enjoying uh Liam Raciner, the LinkedIn football manager, is a constant source of absolute joy to me. I I saw a brilliant thing from Craig Burley on Sky Sports the other day where he was. I can't remember who they were playing, it was one of the Champions League games where they were five goals down or four goals down.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, he was in the nine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and he was five minutes ago, he was handing a tactical note onto the onto the pitch. What can that note possibly say? Yeah, like they've got some tweak that's gonna get us back four goals. Uh, so that appears to be imploding. What I want to talk about first, Andy, I'll come to you because I know you wanted to talk about this. Uh, is you know, them getting a financial uh, you know, a rounding error on a rounding error of a fine for this latest, you know, massive breach of the rules, when obviously certain clubs we might mention uh did get sporting sanctions. Uh so you know, I mean, I think we all can imagine your thoughts on that, but you know, talk to us about what you think the implications of of that are.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think the news that came out this week regarding um Chelsea's a paltry£10 million fine and suspended transfer ban is an absolute farce. I mean, I could the Premier League's reasoning for that particular sanction being on the lenient side is Chelsea's new owners, Blue Co and Todd Bowley and so forth, uh self-reported uh the financial misdemeanours when they were going through the books after they'd taken the club over. And that obviously has to be applauded because you do want it is important that that if people identify wrongdoing, they they they they can be um confident that they can report it and that is seen in a positive light. So I can understand that side of things, and there's an argument that says the clock current ownership isn't responsible for the misdemeanours of the previous ownership. However, by Chelsea doing what they did under Abramovich, I believe it was£47 million that was paid to unregistered agents and things off the books. That obviously then led to Chelsea winning trophies during that period, which has then meant the club is worth what it's worth now when Blue Co have taken it over. So I and and I just think there is no dis there's no incentive whatsoever for clubs to follow the rules. I think there's every chance in boardrooms up and down the country conversations will have been had along the lines of well, if we do what Chelsea have done, then and it comes out a few years later, but we've won stuff in between, we're just gonna get a slap on the wrist. And um and basically we we we've we've got away with it. I don't I don't think the sanction that Chelsea have have suffered in any way, shape, or form reflects the um financial cheating that today we're uh we're getting up to. And to be perfectly honest, I think it's I've been surprised by the sort of collective shrug of the shoulders that football appears to have um you know, football everybody in the country uh appears to have collectively shrugged their shoulders and gone, oh well, that's happened, let's move on. And yeah, I'm just flabbergasted by the fact that they can financially cheat for such a long period of time and know exactly what they were doing, conceal it all, win trophies and all the rest of it, and essentially get away with it scot-free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I agree. And the the point about the cooperation is like the way the Premier League interpret this is bizarre. Like a cooperation should be a mitigation. So, like, if you you know, you you should definitely get a lesser punishment, or they they think about it backwards, you should definitely get a greater punishment if you don't cooperate, for sure, right? That's like a principle of justice. People plead guilty get a less sentence, but it shouldn't get you off scot-free. Like, that's the it's it's absolutely absurd that that's essentially what happens. And a 10 million pound fine and then two a transfer ban that's suspended for two years is essentially no punishment at all. So, you know, I agree, they they've essentially not been punished. What uh anyone else want to weigh in on this before we move on to talk about Chelsea as a club and the game?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's the thing on I agree often that because what it establishes is that if you cooperate, then that's a benefit, whereas cooperation should be the bare minimum, that should be the expectation. Like, whereas, as you say, the Premier League seem to treat it as a as a thing that gets you credit, um, which is which is weird.
SPEAKER_03I like it's obviously nonsense, it's obviously like not a real punishment.
SPEAKER_02But I think the reason I'm probably in the shrug-your shoulders camp with all of this is that football is corrupt. And like we know it's corrupt, and it's established that it's corrupt, and we know that Eberton and Nottingham Forest get punished differently to Chelsea, and we'll get punished differently for the way Man City will get punished. And so that's kind of like yes, I totally get people being outraged and flabbergasted, and and I agree that it's not a punishment, and I agree that that it sets the wrong precedent, and I agree that I agree with everything Andrew said, but I think the reason for the collective shrug of the shoulders is it just confirms people's priors that it it's not a fair game that we're playing in many ways. And you know, I'm not sure if you want to talk about like you know, the AFCON. Again, football is corrupt, it's a corrupt, it is it is run by corrupt people, it is inherently, you know, large parts of it are corrupt institutions, corrupt people, and that leads to corrupt outcomes. Um, Everton getting minus eight point deduction and Chelsea getting a slap on the wrist for much worse offences that won them trophies. It's corrupt. Like, and I so I think, and and you know, I don't say that with any glee or joy, but I think it's like it it is more of a it's just a recognition that it's a corrupt system, and so therefore, yeah, I shrug my shoulders because what else do you expect? I will still I will shrug my shoulders when Man City somehow you know magic their way out of their 115 charges with a similar slap on the wrist because we all know that's what's going to happen because it's Man City and Man City are a big club and football's corrupt and it rewards big clubs.
SPEAKER_00No, you I totally I I you know I I I completely agree, as you know. And I think the reason for that, you know, some people listening might be like, okay, you know, get your tinfoil hats out, lads. But the reality is the Premier League is a product, and Chelsea are much more of the product than Everton are or Forester are. And and that, and that's the fun, it's not even it's like, oh, it's some grand, it's the Illuminati. No, it's maths, you know, it's Microsoft Excel, which is the Premier League cannot damage its product. It can't. So therefore, it will not damage the clubs that are internationally, you know, uh have international status. Uh, whereas and it can damage the ones that do. So that they'll apply rules to to us and Forrest and others because they that allows them to say, look, there are rules, but they'll simply won't simply choose not to apply them to the big clubs. And I think you're absolutely right, Ben. I think it's it's it's they're almost not even hiding it now, you know, that like they just the the the the top the the the clubs with that level of prestige can just do whatever they want.
SPEAKER_05Unfortunately, I think as well, it's a look into the future of the inevitability of Man City not getting the suitable punishment that they will get when these when when these 115 charges are finally um finally pronounced because obviously football is now in a position where um they're involved in uh clubs like Man City and PSG and things like that are um are sportswashing bodies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're state actors affected.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. And then the the ways in which um you can improve your diplomatic stance by using uh something that's globally uh important and loved. Um and which is why you know Man City will not get the will not get suitable punishment because especially not now. Yeah, you know exactly, yeah. And they they they won't because you know for obviously they're owned by the they're owned by the uh Emirati royal family, and uh the UAE is incredibly diplomatically important to that region and therefore the UK, so they just won't, and like you said, the the the um the the Premier League won't allow that allow that to happen, the and any UK government will not probably allow that to happen either, because they don't want the UAE won't allow that to happen. Um and secondly, I mean the the idea of the the this being any sort of punishment is absolutely laughable when you look at the the quality of player that are actually involved in these transfers, um some of whom I'll I'll I'll I'll read out now, which is um uh Ramirez, who was like you know one of the best defensive midfielders at the time when they bought him, um David Luiz, who was you know incredible for a long time, Andre Sherlin, the manager Matic, um Um, Willian, who was brilliant, Samuel Eto, who didn't have a great spell, but probably Chelsea's best player, I would say, but um over the past um for the time that he was there, um, which was um Eden Hazard, um who at the time when he was bought by Leal was coveted by pretty much every top European team. And you can say with absolute certainty that he would not have joined Chelsea if it weren't for that illegal payment to be made. And then he went on to be one of like the best players in the Premier League and incredibly influential to them winning uh eight trophies during that time. Um two Premier Leagues, the Europa League, the Champions League, the FA Cup, and the League Cup. And if you were just for it, this for inflation, and obviously I've got a caveat this with also um you know saying that uh this is the total prize money that a team is going to win, obviously. But in the two the Premier League, um the two Premier Leagues that they won in 2015 and 2017, respectively, they um they got uh just about 350 million pounds in prize money, and then the Champions League was£71 million in prize money. So that's adjusted for 2026 inflation. Um and obviously, I'm gonna repeat that caveat, that doesn't mean that if they didn't sign those players, they wouldn't have got 420 million, but they would have got a hell of a lot less money than they would have done because they wouldn't have had those players that would have won them those trophies. You're talking nine figures, hundreds of millions of pounds, that they would not have got. To be fined a fraction of that total is absolutely laughable and insulting, and unfortunately, a glaring vision into the future of what we can expect when Man City inevitably get investigated.
SPEAKER_03On the Racinia thing, I I find the whole thing hilarious.
SPEAKER_02I do feel sorry for him a little bit about that first home Madrid thing, because like he still has to coach them 85 minutes, right? And he might be wanting to try something out for a future game. So like I have some sympathy for like you know, the mocking you he gets the mocking because it's him. I think if another manager had done that, it wouldn't have been focused on quite so much. But uh the the whole like respect the ball huddle bullshit is the real thing that's really really annoys me. Like, I can like the the whole the the Atletico Madrid's gonna thing. I'm like, yeah, he's he's he's he's he's still trying to coach the team. His job doesn't stop just because they're losing at 85 minutes. So I kind of get that. It's funny because it's him. But this whole like the players wanted to respect the ball. I'm like, don't tell me, do not tell me that Cole Palmer came to you in the dressing room and said, Oh, sorry, Toby's Toby has thoughts on Lum Rasunia as well. Like, don't tell me that Cole Palmer came to you in the dressing room and was like, I've got this idea for a huddle round the ball at the start of the game, boss. Like, that came from him 100%, and it's just like the most bullshitty of bullshit, like management styles to spout all this all this nonsense. And it's it is fast becoming like the funniest thing to observe in the Premier League after Spurs potentially getting relegated, is the nonsense that he comes out with. The only funnier thing was the referee ending up in the middle of the huddle over the weekend, which was just incredible content.
SPEAKER_00And wasn't that some kind of like rule thing like he couldn't leave the ball? Like there was something like I thought when I first saw that, I thought the referee just happened to end up there like by accident. But I was listening to maybe it's the athletics podcast, and they were mentioning that there was something about the referee basically, like the players he's gotta be he can't let like let a situation happen where he hasn't got his eyes on the ball or something weird like that, you know, in case someone tampers with it. Did I am I making this all up or is that an actual thing?
SPEAKER_05Not a clue. I mean it sounds something it sounds like something that could be the case. I think the the weird the weirdest thing is like, okay, the referees in the middle, you don't carry on doing it. You just like go let him out. How fucking mental is it, lads, that we are going to huddle around the referee like this? I thought it was when I first saw it. I genuinely thought like like God, is this how how convincing AI has got now? This like incredible deep fake. It's like, no, it's incredible, no, that's real. Like they've actually huddled around the center circle with the referee in the middle and then carried on doing it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it's it's it's insane.
SPEAKER_02So so what it was, Austin, is the with the the ball thing is that in the previous game, I can't remember who they were playing, was it Villa? Where they'd done it when it was Villa were meant to be kicking off. So there was the issue of it being the confrontation because the Villa players were like, hey, get out the way, we want to kick off. So what the PGO M O L PG M O L had said was the referee's gonna stand at the ball and he's not gonna move. Um because if it's Newcastle's, if it's Newcastle's kickoff, it's they have the right to go, they have the right to be stand at the ball, it's their kickoff, it's their ball. So so they told the PGO PGMOL had told Chelsea beforehand, if it's not your kickoff, the referee will be stood at the ball and he's not gonna move. And they did the huddle anyway. So they ignored the instructions that they'd had from the PGMOL. Um and now they've changed now they've changed it to do a huddle in their own half, which is obvious like what like also, and I think this was the also the um Guardian Football Weekly, I think, made this point. Is that the Premier League runs a multi-ball system? That multi-ball could end up in the stands after 30 seconds and you never see it.
SPEAKER_00Just get a different ball and respect back.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know. Like, hey, hey lads, can you can you just kick a ball on and we'll stand round that ball halfway in our own half? Like, it was just nonsense. It's total, like, as you say, it's ultimate LinkedIn management bullshit.
SPEAKER_05It's amazing how many, it's amazing how many managers manage uh people manage to take David Brent energy and just apply it to their own facet of um of of of of a job, and that's uh and he's done that magnificently with this whole spectable bollocks.
SPEAKER_01Liam Liam Rossinia, there's a TV show which m Austin you might remember, it might be before Ben and Adams' time called Quantum Leap.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Where Sam Sam Beckett sort of was transposed into different people's bodies. I think Liam Rossinia is like a real life version of Quantum Leap. I think somebody is like trying to be a football manager because some of the absolute bollocks he comes out with is utterly it's utterly laughable. Um it's it's football by vibes and spreadsheets and Microsoft Excel and just weird shit that I just don't think any that I just don't understand. Um listen, you know, no no that's not to say I've I've you know I'm not particularly don't really care if the guy succeeds or not. Obviously, I don't want him to do very well on Saturday when we play them, but as a sort of narrative of something else to watch in the Premier League and a different narrative to follow, it is fascinating, and it's going to be fascinating to see how he gets on because obviously Chelsea as a club we've already mentioned the new owners, they want to be challenging for the Premier League and um getting into the latter stages of the Champions League. Now they got their backsides handed to them on a plate um in the last tie with with PSG. Um so and obviously now they're gonna get in the Champions League again next season, but the new owners want higher than that, and if they don't think Rassinia is the man to bring them that, then they'll have no qualms about um getting rid of him and getting somebody else in.
SPEAKER_00So it's gonna be maybe maybe maybe they'll just go the whole hog here and get Gordon Brown to do it or something.
SPEAKER_01Who knows? Possibly, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I think his stock is sorry, his stock is already quite low anyway, isn't it? Because he's come in and he's not he's he's he's obviously didn't he got sacked from Hull and then got uh did well with Strasbourg, but then he's obviously been moved across um to their to the big sister club in Chelsea. Um so his stock's already low, so he's you know coming out with this sort of stuff, and that's obviously that's what the media's talking, you know, is talking about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, you know, we we live in a sort of an attention, attention driven world now where those sort of sound bites and things like that get an awful lot more attention than what they what they would have done. 20 years ago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that and that's another aspect of it. The only reason he's at Chelsea is that he was already at a club that was owned by the same the same group. It's the equivalent of the manager of a Tesco Express doing well and being promoted to like the bigger Tesco's down the road.
Everton v Chelsea Preview And Injuries
SPEAKER_00If for me but it's not even like no, I agree, but it's it's all it's almost even more nefarious than that because he was doing well at Strasbourg, but it's Strasbourg. Well, they they weren't pulling up trees. But the thing, of course, is it's it's the owners knew that he did what he was told. I mean, that was the that was essentially his main criteria for the job was he was not going to do what the previous two managers had done, which was have an opinion on anything. Um, and I think you can sort of see that it's all surface, there's no depth. I mean, okay, so let's move on to we're playing them on Saturday, believe it or not. So they haven't won in five, I think. Uh, you know, it's a big game for us. They've got obviously a better squad than we have, but lots of questions around them. We're at home, we suck at home. Uh Adam, I'll start with you. What are we gonna are we gonna win on Saturday or not? Uh yeah, we're gonna win because I'm not going. Um, so that's the primary that is like that is a big that is a big deal. If I'd known that, I would have even asked a question.
SPEAKER_05Um so yeah, I and in all seriousness, I think we will because I think we turn up against these against teams uh and like Chelsea, and obviously Chelsea are not in uh not in good form. We've got a chance to make reach Europe. Um and um we had a you know a disappointing game against uh against Arsenal last um last weekend um where again against uh one of the uh the better sides um in in the league we played really well and more than held our own and def absolutely did not deserve to lose to lose 2-0. Um so yeah, I I think we'll I think we'll do well against them. Chelsea are aren't on good form, like you said, they've they've not won in five. Um and there's a lot of talk around um there's a lot of talk around you know the manager at the minute, and I think that's probably taken away a lot of his attention and the players' attention, which can also have uh have have an effect. Um and uh we love I think we we've we seem to turn up against Chelsea more than perhaps other other of the big teams. I think you know I can think of just top ahead some really good performances that we've put in over the past five-six seasons against um against Chelsea. Um so yeah, I'm quite positive. Um, and I will you know be watching from from home um and uh um you know with a with a hopefully at the uh at the end of the game, you know, very happy that we won and uh very very happy that the fact that I wasn't there absolutely played its part in making that happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then they probably mention you in the team talks now. Um Andy, you are actually going to this game, so what do you what's your expectation?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm going to this this game with dad, and I'm really looking forward to it. Um and Adam's absolutely right. We do turn up against Chelsea more than other of the so-called big six teams. I mean, like in the last sort of 10 or 11 years, Stephen Naismith has scored a perfect hat-trick uh in home matches against Chelsea. Um, we beat them a few years ago 3-1 when Duncan Ferguson was manager. So we've got a reasonable record at home against them, albeit obviously not at this particular new stadium. Umstensibly they've got a better squad and better players than us, but they're not in good form, and I definitely think we can we can get amongst them. Regarding Everton, I think uh does anybody know the latest on Branthwaite or Tarkovsky? Because as well as sort of Keenan O'Brien did at centre back against Arsenal last weekend, um having Branthwaite as one of the centre backs really would make a difference if um if if he's fit. And then further up the pitch, the sort of shenanigans since the Arsenal game around Tierno Barry and did or didn't he give tickets to his friends who may or may not have been supporting Arsenal. That's not being a a great look. I I've no idea exactly how much of it's true or not, because who who knows. Um so there's one or two bits and pieces around that that aren't aren't great. But no, I I think we can we can uh we can go we go to the game Saturday, we can definitely get amongst them and you know we need to score first. If they score first, I don't see us coming back to win then uh coming from behind. But yeah, I'll I'll be interested if anybody else knows on if there's any fitness issue, uh fitness updates on Tarkovsky or Branthwaite.
SPEAKER_00Nothing's pretty close to the chest, right?
SPEAKER_02Okay, nothing of nothing official. The the suggestion from the googling I've just done is that Brandthweight is more likely to be available than Tarkovsky, um, but it wouldn't be a surprise if they were both still missing. So we might have brand thweight, it's unlikely that we would will have um Tarkovsky, um, which is obviously obviously a blow. Um I think we'll draw nothing to do with whether Adam is going or not. Um I just think we're there's the whole you know home issue hoodoo that we've kind of got going on. We've not um we played well against Arsenal, we played really well against Arsenal. Um but I think the expectation at home creates a different set of challenges, and I think it makes it more difficult for us to play the way Moyes naturally sets us sets us up to play. And I think I think Chelsea, you know, putting aside David Brent in the dugout have a lot of quality on the pitch that I think will be um will probably be too much for our weakened defence, but I I still think we'll get at them. So I'm not sure if we're doing predictions, but I would go I'm gonna go for a one-one draw.
SPEAKER_00Great segue to predictions. Andy, what do you think the score's gonna be?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll I'll go for a 1-1 as well. Um, because I yeah, I think we we we can get a result, but I don't think we can quite get do enough to win the match because individually they have got better better players than us. I mean uh Cole Palmer on his day, he's one of the best players in the league. He's one of the players that I I really like to watch, and despite him playing for the opposition, I am looking forward to seeing seeing him play on Saturday. So I think we'll we'll we'll get a 1-1 draw, which I can, you know, I can I can live with that. That'll be a decent result.
SPEAKER_03Adam, what do you think uh how big is your impact gonna be on the score line? How long are we gonna let him go before we tell him he's on mute? Exactly that long.
Moyes Selections And Square Pegs
SPEAKER_05God, do you think uh six years on from uh from uh everyone knowing that sort of thing happens, you'd you you wouldn't do that, would you? Um I think we'll win uh 1-0. I think it'll be quite a narrow uh a tight game uh with um you know us being nice and solid defensively. We're not prolific scorers, you know, by any means, but at the same time we have got a mean defence. So uh I think it'll be quite a um I wouldn't be surprised if if um if if Moy's um does his his weekly how how can I piss Ben off at 2 pm um or an hour before kickoff.
SPEAKER_00Um he's so good at it though. Like he's so good at it.
SPEAKER_02Thing is, the thing is, I the only one that's really pissed me off recently, I can't remember which game it was, was it was where he played all where he didn't play Mikalenko and didn't play Paterson It was United at home. That was the one that really pissed me off. Like I remember O'Brien at right back, like fine. I can even get on board with the given how well Ira Bunham's been playing, I can kind of get on board with playing Garner at right back and Ira Bunham in the midfield. It was the United one where it was oh that's what it was. It was Brantwick at left back and Mikalenko on the bench. It was O'Brien at right back, and then it was Harrison Armstrong on the left wing when we had McNeil Dibbling and Tyreek George on the bench. It was just going out of his way to like set us up in the most defensively negative way possible. It was like that was what really annoyed me because United was shit that day and we could have won that game, and we might not get Europe per per our earlier discussion. We might not get Europe because of that kind of negative approach to the games. So, like when the team sheet comes out and it has James Garner at right back, fine. That's like kind of his he obviously views that as his best option. I happen to disagree because I think that makes the team worse, but I can I can get on board with that. It was the dropping like Mikalenko and playing a 19-year, 18-year-old central midfielder at left wing for like no reason that would do that really pissed me off, but he seems to have at least moved beyond that. And and you know, I wish he'd done it earlier because Dwight McNeil's been one of our best players the last two games. It's amazing what happens when you just play players in positions that they're meant to play in.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, yeah, and the the the few games that we played since we last did a pot. You the squad we've got is not the most expansive squad we've ever had, so there's always going to be an element of of playing players slightly out of position um through necessity, but sometimes Moyes has rammed the squarest of pegs into the roundest of holes, he really has, and I I genuinely don't understand why because I mean we haven't got overlapping fullbacks anyway, so if you're then not even playing uh a winger on the wing in front, you're just completely um negating your attacking outlets down the flanks. I mean the opposition fullbacks can just get a jet chair and a book out because they're that they know they're not gonna have anybody coming at them, and even in the case of like Armstrong or McNeil, if you play them on the right, you know they're gonna cut inside because that's just what they do. So, from you're making it easier to defend against because the defence knows what you're gonna do before you've even got the ball. So, I mean, I've said it before on previous podcasts, and I accept the fact that three managers now have looked at Nathan Patterson and decided he's he doesn't cut the mustard. So these people see him every day in training, they obviously know much more than any of us, but you can't ignore the fact that if you play a proper right back at right back, then you're just a more balanced team. And what for me, whatever you might lose defensively, um you gain going forwards. There was a game he played earlier in the season, I forget which one it was.
SPEAKER_02He was Nottingham Forest, it was not it was Nottingham Forest. Oh, sorry, I know the other one you're talking about, is Leeds.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, which one of the games he put more crosses in than the other player? He came off the bench after like 86 minutes and put more crosses in than the previous player who played right back for the first 86 minutes. So for me, that's what it's worth playing in because you're just a more balanced team, and it obviously then frees up James Garner to play in midfield where he's better. So yeah, I it it'll just be a real shame if if Moy's sort of obdurateness in playing certain players, regardless of where he could shiw on them on the pitch, might cost us the requisite points that may have got us a European spot.
SPEAKER_02So it was it was bright in a way. Um we want we weren't tapped about it in a time. Yes, yeah, we did. Patterson Patterson came on after 88 minutes and by the end of the game had had three crosses into the box, which was more than Jake O'Brien's two crosses into the box during the entirety of the rest of the game. And the other thing is, in that like I I feel this has become like a the hill on which I shall perish. But like Patterson played earlier in the season and was fine. Like played in the forest away game, played really well, we won that game. Like it I I just don't know, there's obviously something going on behind the scenes because it's too it's too consistent that multiple managers have not played him. But like it's not like he goes out there and looks like you know George Ware's cousin, right? He seems to be a perfectly serviceable Premier League right back. He's never he's not gonna be one of the best, he's not gonna be, but he's certainly not gonna you know trip over his own laces or anything like that. So I just I don't really know what's going on that Moys, especially, and obviously previous managers appear to be determined to go so out of their way to not play him. Um but that's the decision that that that's obviously what's gonna happen. So you know, we can all prepare ourselves for James Garner at right back again on on uh on Saturday, or Jake O'Brien if um Brampthwaite's back because he'll play Bram Thwaite and Keen as your pet as your central pairing and then O'Brien at right back, which is like, yeah, okay, fine. But yeah, I just find it I find it very odd. I especially find it odd that you don't then just send him out on loan. Just send him somewhere else, get someone else to pay his wages for six months, because or stick a youth player on the bench, because like you're obviously not going to play him at any point, so I kind of wonder what the point of having him around is at all.
SPEAKER_03Um, but there we go. All right. I think I think we've covered that.
SPEAKER_00Uh anything else for anything else before we wrap this up?
Refereeing Farce Stories
SPEAKER_01Only thing I'd like to mention, just uh to slightly go off on another tangent, not for the first time in this pod or any of the other pods. Um, there was a comedy penalty last weekend in the Birmingham City Sheffield United game. Where if you haven't seen it, I would urge you to Google it because Birmingham City defender Jack Robinson watches his goalkeeper gather the ball um near the dead ball line. Um goalkeeper then rolls it out to Robinson. Robinson then touches it to the six-yard line and touches the ball with his hand to stop it to take what he thinks is a goal kick. The only problem is the ball hasn't gone dead at any point during that process, so the ball is live and it's therefore a penalty to Sheffield United. Fantastic. And it's just it's just hilariously funny. But what it does show from a referee's perspective is is it shows the how switched on match officials have to be at all times because you never know when something random and weird is going to happen. And it was in the championship, there's no VAR. So if the assistant or the referee hadn't been on the ball, and they obviously were because they spotted it and correctly awarded the penalty, um it would have been missed.
SPEAKER_00I think it was Sheffield. Say it was Sheffield United Birmingham was that match.
SPEAKER_01It was yeah, Birmingham Sheffield United.
SPEAKER_00That means someone had to someone had to explain that incident to Tom Brady, which is almost arguably funnier.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. You say you say about the me on the ball, but I'm not sure if you watched the Wolves Brentford game where they missed the world's most obvious backpass um b before Wolves's, I think, second goal. It might be their first goal.
SPEAKER_01Go and find it. I haven't actually seen the highlights of that game, so I will look that up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Go go and look at it. Then he's like, I mean, he just the the fullback just passes it to the goalkeeper who then picks it up. And the I don't know if the referee and the assistant think it's it's come off the attacker, but it's like it's just a it's just a back, like they weren't on the ball, um, which is and which is hilarious, especially because the if the position on the pitch, it happens right in front of the assistant, like it's in the left back, so the assistant is like right there. So like I just don't understand how it happened. But yeah, go seek that one out as an example of officials not being on the ball.
SPEAKER_00Looking forward, look forward to Howard Webb explaining that one with Michael Owen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right.
SPEAKER_00I think we're done. Um good to be together. Glad we got got the show back on the road. Looking forward to the Chelsea game. Clementine's looking forward to beds, that's why she's cranky. Um, I bet Toby's already asleep, Ben.
SPEAKER_02I would expect Toby, Toby was was has been handed off to my loving wife, who is who is um who is taking them in the other room now. Um because he was he was getting a little bit cranky.
SPEAKER_00There you go. There you go.
SPEAKER_02Well, for life of an Everton fan.
Wrap Up And Where To Follow
SPEAKER_00I know he's probably just figuring that out a month, isn't it? I have to do this every week. Um all right. Follow us on Spotify Apple Podcasts, tell an Everton Support friend, follow us on social media. We'll be back. I mean, I'm gonna say we'll be back next week. Who can say? But we with our aspiration is to be back next week. Uh stay well uh up the top eat.