SPEAKER_00 0:00

People still carry fear, faith, benefits. The weight of trying to hold life together on their own. And maybe that's the paradox of faith. True freedom isn't found in depending more on ourselves. It's found in depending on God. Trusting his ways. Following his voice, surrendering what we were never meant to carry along. Because we're the spirit of the Lord here. And the more we lean into government, the more free. True independence begins with dependence on God.

SPEAKER_08 1:12

We have reason to celebrate as a country. Before we dig in, and in just a moment, we're gonna have some folks come up here. But uh I I just wanted to I've I enjoyed the, you know, I've I think I've shared this before. In my house, uh in our upstairs restroom, there is this uh cutout in we have a like a closet thing, and there's a cutout in the floor, and it's a magic cutout because I throw dirty clothes down in that hole, and a few days later they they show up on my bed for me to put away. It's amaz it is amazing. I I you know uh well we have a similar thing here at the church because every special season uh I show up one week and all of a sudden there's these really cool decorations all over the place. And so I so I just want those folks to know, because they just do it, that uh really appreciate that. And uh uh so thank you for that. Uh so in our you know, uh I I listened to uh Travis's message last week, and uh you know, uh if you were here, there's a bit of passion in that message. And I was questioning myself, I said, I wonder what the the notch up of passion is, and I suspect uh just uh uh that you know there's a difference maybe uh uh between those of us who who have the freedom and the opportunity to live under the Constitution of the United States and the Declaration of Independence, and those who have actually swore to uphold it. If you get my thought there. Uh you know, we we enjoy the freedom. Some have uh actually committed, uh risked their lives to make sure that we get that opportunity, and that's that's a pretty cool thing. Uh so we this in our elders' meetings, and what you're gonna have, uh I'm gonna uh I'm gonna have Travis introduce this, but we have some interesting discussions, and often uh in those meetings, it part of the discussion becomes the things that we see going on in our country right now and how we respond to that. And uh so we had we had one of those sessions uh recently, and just uh I don't know who came up with the idea, I don't remember. I'd like to take credit for it, but I'm not sure that I can. But somewhere in that kind of conversation, we thought we need to have this conversation with our church family. Uh, and not that we're gonna have all the answers, but uh just you know, so that you know uh some of the things that you're wrestling with, uh we wrestle with together. And and so I'm gonna have Travis, uh, I'm gonna pray, but I'm gonna have Travis come up and then he's gonna introduce uh this the panel for this morning, and we're gonna have that conversation in front of you because there may be things that you're wrestling with and you're saying, you know, what do we do with this? And and like I said, I'm not sure we have all the answers, but uh maybe in the dialogue uh it'll be a helpful event. And uh and and one of the things that uh uh we'll bring up, I'm sure, at some point as well, but the in the process, and even as we uh ended our meeting and said we're gonna do this, uh the caution was uh one thing we know we need to do no matter what happens, is we have to do a good job of representing our Lord. Uh so anyway, let me pray and then I'm gonna turn this over to Travis. One thing uh the panel that's coming up, I've already had requests from those who are who are not able to be here who are watching this online, said make sure they have the microphone before they talk. So, because they don't hear us, they don't hear you uh if you don't have the microphone. So make sure as we're talking these things, some of these things through that you grab onto that microphone. But let me pray for us. Father, thank you for uh this congregation, these people, this family, and so I appreciate each one of them. Uh there's uh a wealth of uh wisdom and godliness sitting in this room, and and uh it's it doesn't necessarily fall onto all the shoulders of the guys that and Gal's gonna be sitting up here. But I think sometimes these discussions are good for us as we think through who we are supposed to be as your children, as Christ's followers, in the midst of a fallen world. We certainly recognize that we lived in a blessed country. Uh but blessed does not mean uh without without fault or without uh struggles. And uh Lord, so help us as we think through some of this and how we're to respond as your children in the midst of this country and in this world. Uh, thank you for the way you're gonna guide this conversation. I pray these things in your son's name. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

I I've got a mic on and it's working. So we got two mics, Josh, or you say it was three. Okay. So we'll really have to be generous that you might as well stay up on the stage, Paul. You might not want to sit that close to the. I would have left that for somebody younger. I'm just not predicting anything. But if if the uh elders and Gabby would come on up to the stage, we'll get situated and make sure that we're in the frame of the are we in frame? We're good. So, yep, you can you guys can pick a seat, whatever you feel comfortable with. And so each each week when we do offering, we usually uh try to rotate it between the uh elders so that you can kind of see who the elders are in the church and uh uh get to know them. And uh as we do this. So, what we have on stage is the elder, the leadership, so to speak, of the church. And uh you'll notice that that one of these people is is much better looking than the rest. And this is Gabby, and we invited Gabby to be a part of this panel discussion because the things that we are going to be talking about are uh kind of directly addressed in uh an organization that she'd been a part of for a couple years, and she is currently the outgoing president of TPUSA, which meets here at the church. And I told her I'd give her a moment to give that organization a plug, and this is your opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

Okay, well, hello, my name is Gabby, like Mr. Travis said. Um, and I actually took over the TPUSA Grand Island Hub here. Um, my friend started it, but after or Charlie died, she dropped it, and I just felt the need to bring it back for the kids in my community. Um, and it's been a really great outreach. We've talked about politics and Christian values, and basically just kind of going over history lessons about our country because I feel like sometimes our education system fails to teach us that. And so going back to the basics and really learning what is true and what built our country and what we need to be valuing as American citizens is super huge to teach the next generation. So, yeah, I am the outgoing president. The next president is going to be Jack Antull, and the club will continue to meet here. So if you have any questions, comments, it's open to eighth graders through twelfth graders. Eighth graders are allowed to come with parent permission, and we have like little flyers, um, detail information. If you want any more of that, just feel free to reach out to me or Pastor Paul or Mr. Travis.

SPEAKER_08 8:32

What do those initials stand for?

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Uh turning point USA.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

You get a little net. And uh they meet twice a month, you were saying, here at the church, or they're voting of how many.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

They're gonna vote and see if it's once a month or twice a month.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

What kind of things do you do in a meeting?

SPEAKER_04 8:48

So typically we open with prayer and then we go over some like current news, just kind of break that down a little bit, and then we go over like a certain aspect of our nation. So it could be like we'll look at the Constitution, or we'll look at First Amendment rights, Second Amendment rights, we'll look at founding fathers and their history. Like there's a lot of different topics of discussion that they have open for us. So it's really just a lot about American values, American politics, really just learning.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

So I was telling you earlier that I didn't really have any passion or desire to be involved or even know about politics until I found myself in the Marine Corps and I had a captain standing in front of me, and he started asking me questions about conflicts going on in other countries, and he looks me dead in the eye. He says, Marine, you could be somewhere tomorrow morning. You need to know what's going on in the world. And I'm like, that makes a lot of sense. Um, so what what got you interested in politics at such a young age?

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Well, I was homeschooled in sixth grade, so obviously being with my dad made me interested in politics. He's super big on that. Um, and I wasn't really involved in too many like political clubs or anything, I just kind of went back over the basics, American history, etc. But then I did go to a few turning point USA young women's leadership summits that were run by Charlie Kirk and his wife, Erica, and that was really fulfilling and fruitful for me. And so after Charlie died, I just felt like I needed to pick up where this club left off. I needed to continue his legacy.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

So great, great program for kids, especially if uh I don't know, maybe somebody else knows if you're involved in public school, how much they teach. So oftentimes you see kids graduating college and they'll ask them, you know, what are the three branches of government? You know, what's and it's just these things just have fallen out of the uh kind of the spotlight of things that need to be learned. And perhaps there's a reason for that, but we want to dig into some things this morning, and so we're we're going to deal with some issues, and and I believe that these issues, you know, you think um politics and Christianity, this can be an issue. Is there is there should there be any connection between our political life and our religious life? A lot of people would say no, there shouldn't be any connection, but we know that if if we give our lives to Jesus Christ, he calls us to surrender everything. And that means there is no part of our life that is not touched by the kingdom of God, and it should influence all of our decisions in every area of our life. So we'll we'll get into some of these things, and uh most of you guys, uh I guess we can go down the row and introduce ourselves, and we'll start with Lee, and you can kind of if you want to pass the mic down first, good call. Usually I can talk loud enough. Yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Most people say that I talk too loud, and I don't hear very well, so uh I've always have to have things repeated a couple times. But anyway, my name is Lee Jacobson.

SPEAKER_06 11:53

Kyle Wade, Justin Thiel, Christoph Koenig.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I'm Travis, and you guys know Gabby introduced herself and Pastor Paul.

SPEAKER_08 12:04

Oh, Candy, and by the way, in case you ever have a question or a gripe, Lee's the chairman of the board, so he's the guy you talked to. So just thought I'd get that out there real quick. I have a gripe.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:15

Talk to Lee.

unknown 12:16

Yeah, I'll talk to him right now.

SPEAKER_06 12:19

Lee, that's my chair. Just so we're on the same page. Okay, don't take it with you. All right.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

They they call that the throne. You're on the throne. That is the drummer's throne. Yes. Yeah. So we've got a couple of clips. Lee, did you want to read that? I will. Okay, you can go ahead and do that, then we'll get into our clips.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

I just uh saw uh just a little uh piece on the uh internet that came up and I thought was rather interesting. We've tried the uh with the 250th birthday of our country and our founding fathers and and the and the struggles that they went through uh to uh come up with the Constitution of the United States. Uh and we know that our founding fathers were were very into the word, very religious individuals, and they put everything on the line when they uh when they got together to try to set up uh a constitution or uh a legal basis for our country to survive. And so I just I'll start this out, and this was uh written by a Wendy M. Yurgo, and I have no idea who this uh person is, but I thought it was rather interesting. It says, and this is back in uh July 4th, 1776. We're back in that time frame. It says the air feels different this morning, heavier somehow, through the sky or over Philadelphia, has only just begun to cloud. Two days of debate have worn the room down to its bones. I've watched these men argue over commas the way they once argued over kings. Today I sense the arguing ends. I've come, I've come back. I hope you'll come with me one last time into that room. Inside the Pennsylvania State House, the delegates take their seats for what will become the final session on Jefferson's draft. The document has been cut, sharpened, and softened in places over these three days. A quarter of what Jefferson wrote will never reach the public at all. Trimmed the way in the name of unity. He has said little through most of it. Today, mercifully, there isn't much left to cut. Outside on 2nd Street, Thomas Jefferson is doing something almost comically ordinary. The heaviness that has hung over his city for days, the humid morning, one thick, close air inside the chamber has finally broken. While the fate of 13 colonies waits to be finalized a few blocks away, Jefferson ducks into a bookstore and buys himself a thermometer. He notes it later in his own accounts, along with seven pairs of women's gloves and a small donation to charity. By early afternoon, he records the temperature at 76 degrees. The sky overcasts, the air mid for the first time, the air mild for the first time in days. A man capable of writing that all men are created equal was also a man who wanted to know precisely how the weather had to finally be turned.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

So one of the things I said last week was that, you know, when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, he's he's faced with Satan throws some ideas at him. If you're the Son of God, tell the stone to become bread. If you're the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it's written that the angels will bear you up. And so we hear these types of arguments, and so this is what we're doing today. We're gonna look at some arguments that are handed to us because we're told to bring captive every thought that exalts itself over knowledge of God. And with that, if uh we'll roll that first clip.

SPEAKER_05 16:13

America and Christianity are like baseball and apple pie, and we celebrate them together. I was 16, 17 years old when I became a Christian. I'm an evangelical ministry.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

I've been a Christian my whole life.

SPEAKER_10 16:29

I would love to get your take on the rise of Christian nationalism in this country and and around the world. Um, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst recently released a poll uh that shows how Americans are feeling with the 250th anniversary of our country. And there's a huge divide between Democrats and Republicans on the extent to which the U.S. should be a Christian country. Nearly 80% of Republicans believe the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation, 72% believe the government should advocate Christian values, 54% believe the U.S. should be declared a Christian nation. And I thought this was really disturbing. Another public religion research institute poll found that 56% of Republicans qualify as either adherents or sympathizers of Christian nationalism. What's going on here?

SPEAKER_11 17:29

So, Katie, you've called me professor three times already, and I'm going to take that as a license to make a really incredibly boring academic point, which is that or maybe it's not so boring, maybe it's more fundamental. You also can't do democracy without history. So those views that people hold, some of them are views about the past. And they're wrong. The United States was not. I mean, there are issues on which you can be right and wrong, and this is one where you can be wrong. The United States was not, in fact, founded on Christian principles in any sense. It's simply not true.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

The United States was not founded on any Christian principles. Who wants to jump in on that? Who has the mic?

SPEAKER_09 18:09

I have the mic, so I guess I'll jump in. Um yeah, that's the fact of that is it's so divorced from reality. Um, but that's the m you know, that's the false message that they're trying to portray. I mean, the very treaty after the Revolutionary War, the first line of it says that this nation is founded upon the Trinity. What other, you know, even deists don't believe in a trinity. That is that is Christian all the way.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Anyone else?

SPEAKER_08 18:45

I think I want I want to make a distinction uh with uh we are not a Christian nation. Uh and what I mean by that is uh only an individual can be a Christian. Uh a Christian is a person who invites Jesus Christ to be their savior. But we are founded on Christian principles. Uh and and the the founding fathers, they were some of they were not all strong believers. Some of them were deity. Benjamin Franklin is a typical. He uh, and yet his language is very, he talks a lot about God. He's some of the some of the most significant statements were made by him, although he was, as far as what I see, probably not a Christian. Possibly, we can't say, we can never say what's in a man's heart heart. But uh so I always like to make that distinction, and I don't think our founding fathers would ever want that us to be declared a Christian. They would not, in fact, their big argument was we're not gonna, we are not going to set up a religion as a nation and say this is what everybody follows. Uh, we're gonna have those freedoms. So uh so I think those distinctions are important in terms and that's why they get confused because uh uh uh because of they don't understand the language isn't defined, I think, lots of times.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

But uh you know, I find it interesting that you know Benjamin Franklin and both Thomas Jefferson toward the end of their lives, they made a lot of statements that would uh suggest that they were deist. But it's interesting during the uh constitutional convention, and uh it was uh they were having a they weren't getting anywhere, and it was Franklin who stood up and he and he uh he challenged him. He says, If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, can an empire rise without his help? And uh he told him that they should pray.

SPEAKER_08 20:38

Uh Benjamin Frank Franklin, when they were talking about symbols, what should be the symbol of America, he he his direction was he wanted it to be a picture of Israel coming out of the wilderness. So he'd obviously had some quite high uh regard for the Word of God and for uh Christian principles and for godliness. But uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:02

So I think something that pertains to this pretty significantly is uh George Washington's inaugural address when he was first elected president. And I wanted to read uh a portion of that to you because he addresses here uh the idea of the importance of the political framework, but that it's undergirded by uh uh a Holy Spirit, it's undergirded by uh a deity uh that has brought a blessing upon a nation in a way that he hadn't seen before in history. And so this is this is old George, right? It's not the the last thing he writes, but the first thing he writes before he enters office. And in in this inaugural address, he says this such being, also reading George Washington's works and men and women from that time will expand your vocabulary. So stick with me. Such being the impressions under which I have in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly. Improper to omit in its first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the Council of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to this charge. In tendering this homage to the great author, that is God, of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. In the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted cannot be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude and a humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the proprietus smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the internal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained. Having thus imparted to you my sentiments as they have been awakened by the occasion which brings us together, I shall take my present leave, but not without resorting once more to the benign parent of the human race in humble supplication that since he has been pleased to favor the American people with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility and dispositions for deciding with unparalleled unanimity on a form of government for the security of their union and the advancement of their happiness, so his divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measures on which the success of this government must depend. George Washington said at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end of his inaugural address, we exist, this framework exists, and we owe all of that to the protection and providence of God.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

One thing that isn't taught, or most don't know, is that following 1776 and the implementation of the Constitution, all 13 colonies required a um a testament of faith to hold civil office. So that was all 13 colonies that were in existence. So to say that, and in uh 1961 the Supreme Court overruled that, and obviously that's uh deemed unconstitutional now, but based on that to say that the nation did not was not founded on Christian ideals and values is competently false.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Why do you so you know this would be when we look at history and we look at what people say, and I think sometimes people are honestly deceived and sometimes they're willfully have an agenda. Why do you think there's such a push to denounce the Christian founding of this nation?

SPEAKER_04 25:47

I think there's a large push to denounce the founding values of our nation because they want it to be, or people that are pushing for that primarily want this to be a secular nation so that Christian morals do not like govern our country, basically. They don't want us to be voting based on Christian morals, they don't want us to be uh making laws based on Christian morals that outlaw things like um illegal immigration, et cetera, et cetera, um, because they want to be able to push those things. And so that kind of comes down to this idea of separation of church and state, I think is what they want. They have the idea that was in the constitution where the government does not get to govern what your religion is as an individual. Like they cannot choose for you that you must be a Christian, and that's a great thing for a country. It allows us to have that religious freedom. But they also take it the other way where it's like the church cannot be a part of the government. They want that separation there, and so that's what they're really calling for with that.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Where do they get that idea, do you think, of separation of church and state to mean that your faith can't have any impact on the government?

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Well, so there's this idea that everything should be secular, especially in like public school systems where they're like, we're gonna take the Bible out of school, we're just gonna put in science, we're gonna put in uh pure politics, and like the idea that we're getting rid of religion to have everything objectively true. And the problem with that is obviously everything is a religion. Um, when you have the science of evolution, that is obviously a theory of our origins and everything. So they want everything to be objectively true, so there is no morals, they just want to take everything out and dilute it.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

So you would say it's either Christian nationalism or it's atheistic globalism?

SPEAKER_04 27:26

Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

And have we what are some examples of where atheistic globalism leads? Have has anybody seen kind of where that vision of the world, the worldview, where does it end up?

SPEAKER_06 27:39

National socialism.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

You do. Well, you don't, but the people in the internet.

SPEAKER_06 27:44

So National Socialism led to Hitler, who advanced an atheistic decree and quoted Darwin in just accelerating uh survival of the fittest.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 27:56

Any other And so he killed people because he felt morally righteous and obligated to do that in his atheistic framework.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Right. What any other examples of where atheistic globalism leads?

SPEAKER_09 28:13

You see it uh even in the United Nations uh and when you look at a lot of the underlying propaganda that they're uh pushing, but I mean the European Union, um, you know, there's it's it's all a push for one government and um you know one rule. And that's uh quite frankly the reason they're trying to weed religion out is because it's an obstacle. And it's uh people of faith have are they're harder to conquer.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Yeah. Well, one of the things I thought of was in the beginning he created the male and female, and so this this worldview has created people that can't distinguish but you know, it's in New York, they want to change the words father and mother to just stating parent. You know, it's almost absurd the level of create, you know, at least to my eyes it's absurd, but I I can understand how they got there.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Yeah, um, I just wanted to dig in a little bit on the the separation of church and state because if the common misconception in the Zeitgeist is that that is in our constitution and it is not, it came from a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut in 1802, where he said, I contemplate that with sovereign reverence the act of a whole American people which declared that their legislation legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of a religion or prohibiting the free existence thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. So in that letter, he was stating that the federal government should not compel the citizenry to a certain religion. Not that religion cannot be part of government or cannot influence government. So when they took the Bible out of the classroom and referenced the separation of church and state, nobody was forcing a child to read a Bible in the classroom. They just used that as a uh crutch to stand on to remove religion from our culture.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

And we know the same Thomas Jefferson, who wrote that letter to Danbury, Connecticut, uh church, um, was attending church at the state capitol and continued to attend church at the state capitol, encouraged others to also attend church. So he didn't by no means mean to infer that you shouldn't practice your faith within politics, but that the state would never dictate or establish a religion for the people. Yeah, it's it's it's it's like it's it's crazy when like this news clip for somebody to say something like that, it just either displays their ignorance or their malice. And so, you know, you hear these things, and if you don't go and study, I would say just the condition of the world we're in and where it's at, it's caused me to study history in a way I never have before, and I would just encourage you to there's there's lots of books written and there's lots of uh podcasts out there. You can you can dig deep into the founding and what it means. Does anybody else want to add anything about Christian nationalism or the founding?

SPEAKER_08 31:20

Yeah, I and I think I was just talking talked about being very careful about just when they say something. She says Christian nationalism and and that they're put out terminology, and all of a sudden we're supposed to be afraid of the terminology. I heard, I can't remember who this week, but he says, if if being a Christian nationalist means I love Jesus Christ and I love my country, then I guess that's what I am. And uh it's like, you know, we throw they throw out these terms, and it's like, okay, I can't be that now. Yeah, what is wrong with loving Christ and loving the nation? Uh are there people out there that that uh can give uh labels like that a bad name? Certainly. But same with Christians. I mean, there's a lot of people that think that you're a very bad person because you're a Christ follower. Uh I heard uh years ago a missionary that uh uh you know, like from Wissai and I've had bad experiences with Christians, and this is why. And and he says, you know, you shouldn't judge Christ by the coat that some people wear. Uh not all not all people that claim the Christ uh are good followers, but uh don't back away from from some of these things that we run from quickly. But uh so yeah, I'm a Christian nationalist and nationalist that that means loving Jesus Christ and loving my country. That's me.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Yeah, I find it interesting. You know, the Bible says that we're not to be conformed to the pattern of this world. And I talked about this last Sunday, that there was a time period where people weren't saying Merry Christmas at Walmart. And you there's always there's this pressure to take your faith and you keep that at home and don't bring it out. Don't don't I I had uh I was working just a you know a job and I was told that I couldn't share my faith. Uh and it's you know that's that's the pressure that's in the world today. And I think you know, you've recent years of boldness to stand for what's we believe is true. Um that uh the Tucker clip, we'll we'll move on.

SPEAKER_07 33:16

I would actually argue, and this is a bold statement. Uh a Democratic Republic is the greatest government experiment in the history of humanity. I would I would say I've enjoyed it. You've enjoyed it. Yeah, so we enjoy it. We love I love America, you love America. I do. Capitalism should not be anywhere near Christianity. You think Christianity is more, and I don't like the word socialist with the with the the weight it carries, but Christianity in its is socialism at its core.

SPEAKER_09 33:47

Non-authoritarian.

SPEAKER_07 33:48

It's it's it's uh it's the marker.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Who wants who wants to jump on that? I can take that on to stay stayed.

SPEAKER_06 33:59

All right, I'm gonna pull the mic away in a minute if you if you get carried away, all right?

SPEAKER_02 34:07

This one really grinds my gears. Um to say that Jesus Christ is a socialist um is the most preposterous claim, and to see it on a podcast that has so many eyeballs is extremely discouraging and disheartening that that's going on in this country, especially from a man that I used to respect and listen to. Um you have to do is look at the parable of the talents, and that argument is bunk. So, how many of you all by show of hands know the socialist decree by Karl Marx? From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs. So it's basically saying if you have the ability, you have to give to those that need. But what happens in that system? Those with the ability say, well, I'll just become the guy who needs. And then it all falls apart. So in the parable of the talents, you know that the man who took the five bags and doubled it, he was praised. And the man that stuck it in the ground to save it, he was reprimanded. Now, what system, capitalism or socialism, is conducive to going out and achieving the personal excellence and striving for greatness? It's not socialism. And again, to suggest that the savior of the world and the living God conforms to that 1800s Karl Marx theory is just patently preposterous.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Now, wait a minute, what about Acts 2 where it says all the believers were together and had everything in common? They sold all their possessions and shared what they had.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

I think it it it comes down to the individual. It's not a collective. It's you. In the Sermon on the Mount, he never said we, he said you. You take care of the hungry, you take care of the poor, you take care of the widow. It's an individual. Jesus is always speaking about matters of the individual heart, not a collective.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Your objection is with the uh government seizure of the means of production and the forcing of people to give everything that's theirs as opposed to the voluntary giving rather the cheerful giver. Yep. Okay. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

I think another perspective on socialism that's kind of interesting is that people that play the game of socialism are trying to play God. They're trying to eliminate all the depravity in the world, all the bad things. They're trying to make everything equal so that everybody has enough food, everybody has enough stuff to live, etc. And so obviously that's not what Jesus calls us to do, is not to try to like eradicate everything and make everything perfect. He's the only one that can make things perfect. We're supposed to trust in him with our lives and our flaws, etc. Um, and so yeah, it's if we read like Plato's Republic, they basically go back, rewrite the perfect society, and they're like getting rid of like the family unit because there are intrinsic problems with the way that the world is because of the fall. But the problem is, is like when we see people try to make this perfect society and communism, like with the Soviet Union, everybody just still falls apart because you can't make things that are perfect. It's just socialism is wrong, it's not right, it's not what God intended for us to do to fix the problems of this world.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

So would you say the major miscalculation is human nature?

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Yeah, I'd definitely say that. They're like, uh like John Lennon's imagined, he's like, imagine this world, everything's perfect, everything's equal. It's like, no, we live in this world. Like it's never going to be what people expect it to be. Communism has never really been successful to the point where it's perfection because it never can be perfection.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Because there's always greedy people that get in the nice.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

And so having a meritocracy, capitalism, and the ability for individuals to choose to give and do right by them own selves for the betterment of everybody allows for us to help make the problems less, not make a perfect society, but also allows us to come together to get rid of as many problems as we can without having the government mandate that we do that.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Meritocracy, what's that mean?

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Oh, a meritocracy is basically where everyone um works to achieve excellence and the people that achieve greater get greater awards. Um so like if a doctor works like goes through residency medical school, he's gonna get paid more than like somebody that goes straight into the kind of like like what Dr.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Martin Luther King Jr. said that he he envisioned a day when men would be judged by the content of their character. Yeah. And and not based on anything else, but yet we see in our society where there's this uh uh diversity, inclusion, and equity.

SPEAKER_04 39:09

Yeah, they're trying to get everybody flatlined again, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Well, there's there's too many white people. We need uh we need different people from different places and different religion, and that lowers the instead of taking the best for the job, you you've got a different standard, and that's that's another difference in that problems like Alaskan airlines with the plane basically falling apart because the people didn't know how to build it.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

Like it's not great.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 39:42

Uh, you know, so the socialism would try to enforce morality without faith. And uh that's a tough thing to do, although they the the world and our culture may try to sell that to us. And so, you know, I have this constitution and other uh founding documents uh that I like to read through, uh, but that is less important than you knowing this, right? The word of God will be the guide, and as as it was used to create the framework of our constitution, you know who spoke about that? George Washington, he did. He did that at his farewell address. So George Washington was asked to be president after he had already retired, came out of retirement to be a president, and then in his farewell address was it sounds like he's almost asking to retire again. He's like, I know what you wanted me to do. I did the best I could, but I'm old and I'm tired, right? But he says this in his farewell address, and we think about um trying to divorce morality from faith, and where George Washington says religion, we should interpret that as faith. And he says this where the security for property, for reputation for life, if the sense of religious obligation, desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice, and let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion, whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds, of peculiar structure, reason, and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. He's saying the same thing. That the morality that we find within the framework of our founding documents exists because it's defined first by God Himself. And second to that, we shouldn't be surprised that we are having to have these conversations. Because Jesus told us this was gonna happen. In the last days, good will be called evil, and evil will be called good. And we will be sold that. And so we have a responsibility, not just, you know, Job 38, God asked this question Who is it that darkens my counsel without an ounce of knowledge? And then he says to Job, Brace yourself like a man, for I'm about to answer you. And so, who is it that darkens counsel without an ounce of knowledge? It seems like Job and his homeboys were asking the right questions. And God says those are not the right questions. But we speak with authority about something we may not have studied, and that is the Constitution. But in order to understand this, you have to embrace this. Right? It's God's word that is the guiding light for your life. The Constitution is 250 years old. It is the longest serving and oldest written Constitution in existence today, and it's only 250 years old. Think about how many constitutions and government policies and programs that have come and gone over the history of mankind. Of course, there's going to be infighting. George Washington spoke about that in his farewell address as well. He said, Be careful not to swear your allegiance to your party before your country. But also be careful not to swear your allegiance to your country before you swear your allegiance to your God. Right? And that is where understanding the importance of this nation and in the timeline of humanity is one thing, but more importantly, understanding your relationship with God and how that impacts the documents that were written that govern a nation as special as ours. That's the most important.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

It's amazing how fast time flies when you're having fun, but I think we should wrap up with this idea. Um, Josh, can you put that slide up? It's a uh John Adams quote that our Constitution is completely inadequate for maybe. If not, it's okay. I can I can wing it. Um I like to tell my children that if you don't manage yourself, someone will be appointed to manage you. And John Adams, not that one. Uh I think it's there's a picture. Anyhow, John Adams said that that our constant Is only adequate for a moral people. If we don't govern ourselves, if we turn to lawlessness, the only, you know, and almost, I think there were three or four of the uh signers of the Declaration really warned about how short-lived a democracy is, that they are more bloody than a monarchy or a totalitarian blood often, and that they can end really bad because it is dependent on the people maintaining rule over themselves. Um, if you judge yourself, you won't be judged. So, you know, when we think about saving America, if you're to save it, save, you know, to have this freedom and individual liberty that has not been seen anywhere else in the world, it really does depend on where the Spirit of the Lord is. There is freedom. And so if we really do go into the world and we are a post-Christian culture, we will begin to look like those cultures that didn't have Christ. And uh it gets ugly. Thoughts, closing statements?

unknown 45:14

I'd like to read one.

SPEAKER_08 45:19

I heard this this week, and uh uh a couple of uh centuries back, Scotty's theologian Smithon, and uh he made an interesting statement that you may have to chew on for a while, but he said to convert one sinner from his way is an event of greater importance than the deliverance of an entire kingdom from temporal evil.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Amen. Uh so that's the rub, isn't it?

SPEAKER_08 45:46

It is. And I also I often think, you know, in our challenge uh is we we have these characters that are in power and they frustrate us, they anger us, uh, they do cause us despair lots of times. Uh but I think uh one of the things that scripture said, and we studied it a while back, is reminded that we are not, it is our battle is not against flesh and blood. This is a spiritual battle. And one of the things I think we forget sometimes is these individuals out there that we literally see as evil, uh hard not to, the best thing that could ever happen was if they would come to Christ. And so don't forget the prayer aspect of this battle that we're in. As you look at these individuals and you get so frustrated, and uh really good time to say, Lord, help them come to know you. Because if they can change that from the inside in a relationship with God, the difference they can make is huge.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

But okay. Well, just to end with this question, anybody can answer it that wants to. What uh in your own view, what makes America great? Don't don't want to chew on that one?

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Anybody? What makes America great?

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Uh it comes back to again that that personal excellence. And um the United States is the best country in the world, I believe, to foster the ability to be personally excellent in your faith, in your finances, in your your home life, everything. Um there we have the most freedom here while dwindling to become personally excellent, and again, most importantly, in your faith, in your relationship with Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 47:36

Yeah, you know, that that concept of freedom, it's so familiar to us because so many of us are born into it. Right? Um but freedom isn't free. Right? There is a cost to it. Uh, you and many others here among us serve in our military. That is one of the uh more significant payments for our freedom. The same is true in our faith. We have a freedom, uh an eternal freedom, an opportunity to spend forever with God, and and that is free to us, and yet it had an extraordinary cost. Right? That cost of God's only Son, Jesus Christ.

unknown 48:17

Right?

SPEAKER_06 48:17

He bought that freedom for us. And what makes America great is that we we get that freedom bestowed upon us because of the sacrifice that goes all the way back to our founding fathers. We see in those original documents where they pledge their life, their liberty, and their treasure. Their expectation was to die in this endeavor broke because they tried so hard. So that I can be born into freedom. But greater than that is the gift of God through Jesus Christ. That despite my status on this earth, whether a free man or not, I have an eternal freedom because of that incredible sacrifice. And the fact that we get to sit here this morning and talk about it, where in many parts of this world that opportunity is not provided, I believe that's what makes us great.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Charlie once said that our rights come from God, not government, and that's really what makes America so great. So I think a main takeaway from this is that we as the church should be voting for the political party of the Lord, not necessarily anything that we can fabricate, create here, but we should be voting on biblical values, biblical principles, what is going to glorify God the most, what's going to support God's, what God wants for us the most. And so that's really awesome. America has freedom, God gave us freedom, let's use that freedom to glorify Him.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Yeah. When I think about that question of what makes America great, I'm, you know, there's a verse in the Old Testament that says, righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people. So with that, unless anybody has something to add, we'll close in prayer. Father, we are just so thankful for your word and how your word has shaped this nation. And as we look at history, it's undeniable that your word did shape this nation. Uh, we see that the Constitution, that it quoted the Bible more than any other source. And Lord, uh, freedom is is not guaranteed. Uh it's not passed on in our bloodstream, as Ronald Reagan said. It's it has to be handed down, it has to be taught. And uh we just see that apart from revival, apart from a pouring out of your spirit, um, we are truly destitute and lost. Apart from Jesus, we can do nothing. And Father, we do pray for this nation. We pray that it would continue to stand for another 250 years as a city on a hill, a light in the darkness. And Father, we pray that you would raise up men and women, that your spirit would burn in our chests, that we would stand on principles that we know are right, that we would speak the truth and love. And Father, help us to be courageous under fire and stand for what is true. And we ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.