Ohio Yearly Meeting's Podcast

Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #8

• Henry Jason

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John 3:31-4:14

This episode emphasizes the importance of lifelong learning and the relationship between trust and belief within the context of faith. By examining John Chapter 3, the host explores key themes of spiritual truth, the meaning of living water, and how these insights apply to our daily lives as believers.

• Discussion on continual education and its role in faith 
• Reading and examining the Gospel of John, Chapter 3 
• The contrast between accepting and believing in Jesus 
• Exploring the metaphor of living water and its significance 
• Insights into the cultural context of the Samaritan woman at the well 
• Examining the active nature of trust in one's faith 
• Connections between historical narratives and contemporary faith practices 
• Reflection on the implications of calling Jesus "Lord"

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Chip Thomas:

Advice number 19. Be zealous that education shall be continued throughout life. Willingness to be used in mind as well as in body, and to be equipped in both, is a needful part of Christian character. Our service to God is incomplete without the contribution of the intellect From Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline.

Henry Jason:

This is the Ohio Yearly Meeting Greek Bible Study, session number eight, and we are reading the gospel according to John. We left off in chapter 3 at Verse 30. Recordings are available, if you're interested, of these things. We are recording them and eventually they'll be put into podcasts and placed on the Ohio Yearly Meeting website. Also, I just want to remind folks that these sessions, along with the fundamentals, are open now to everybody. So if you know of anyone who may be interested in attending these sessions, please just pass on the links or have them email me to get the links. Again. My email address is henry at henryjasonorg.

Henry Jason:

All right, let's finish here with chapter 3, beginning with verse 31. I'm reading the New Revised Standard Version translation. Where we left off, it was John the Baptist speaking, and some scholars believe that what I'm about to read the rest of the chapter is a continuation of that talk that John the Baptist was giving or his comments. Others believe that it's separate. And, just to remind everyone, in ancient Greek there was no punctuation whatsoever, so that there was no like quotation marks or parentheses, periods, commas, whatever. All words were only written in capital letters, there were no small letters and there were no spaces between words, so that what we have in translations is all due to later people deciding where sentences begin and end, what should be capitalized, what should not, and so forth. So in this case, if this could be a continuation of what the comment is here from john the baptist or maybe it's separate it's a comment of the authors, of the author of this gospel. So okay, beginning the one who comes from above is above all the one who is of the earth, belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard. Yet no one accepts his testimony. Whoever has accepted his testimony has certified this that God is true. He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands. Whoever believes in the son has eternal life. Whoever disobeys the son will not see life but must endure God's wrath.

Henry Jason:

In the first verse, 31, we have that contrast. That is very similar to talking about the first birth natural birth we all go through and then the second birth, that birth from above, Of course. Just earlier in this chapter, Nicodemus was asking Jesus about when the kingdom of God would come, and Jesus was explaining how one needed to undergo the second birth, the spiritual birth, and this is again just a repetition of what was being said there. Birth, and this is again just a repetition of what was being said there. And then, following that, we have a reference to Jesus as being from heaven, which is above all with a comment no one accepts his testimony. Again, this might be a comment from much later, when this gospel finally came into its last edition sometime, perhaps in the 90s of that first century, that there were so many people who were not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. So this is perhaps a later comment In verse 33, whoever has accepted his testimony has certified this that God is true.

Henry Jason:

Now I think we've talked about this word true and truth. Aleph this is an adjective in Greek. It means true. It also means real, and I'm just commenting on that because the word for truth is very similar. We'll see this word many more times throughout this gospel, and I'm just commenting on that because the word for truth is very similar. We'll see this word many more times throughout this gospel God is true or God is truth. I am the way I am truth, Jesus says so, just showing it here.

Speaker 3:

Henry, I have another rendering of that in two different versions. I don't think it changes the meaning, but two different English translations say truthful. God is truthful.

Henry Jason:

Okay, I'm going to look that one up here. Alephes is a less common adjective for true or real. The more common one, which also occurs in this gospel, is pertaining to being truthful and honest. Truthful, righteous, honest, that's general word. True, basically, Pertaining to being in accordance with fact. True, Pertaining to being real, genuine, not imaginary. True. So truth, who can? Is a translation possible here?

Henry Jason:

He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the spirit without measure. What's being said there is that I just want to check another word here. Measure, I believe, is the word metron. Yes, it is Okay, Not by measure. So God can give the full spirit to people.

Henry Jason:

I've come across having to say in the last couple of weeks a couple of times that God's spirit is full in itself. The person who is receiving the Spirit that may only be able to accept or understand part of it that is given to him or her at a given time, and that's, I think, important to remember. And finally, in verse 36, whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life but must endure God's wrath. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. As I've mentioned many times this word, bistewo, which is the word for believe. The basic meaning of that word is to trust, to have confidence in, and that's very important to remember that. If you see your translation saying believe Whoever puts their trust in the Son, whoever has confidence in the Son of God, has eternal life, Life of the ages. And that would be life with a capital L, Not just physical life, but divine life being joined to God.

Speaker 4:

I was wondering what would be the difference between accepts and believes.

Henry Jason:

Where is the word accept?

Speaker 4:

It's not in my translation. Whoever accepts what he believes Well in 32 and 33.

Henry Jason:

Okay, well, accept is a translation for that verb in 32. Yes, that is the word for accept. It also means receive. But I'm looking at verse 36, the last verse in the chapter. Whoever believes in the Son, that is, whoever has put their trust in the Son, has eternal life.

Speaker 4:

Can you remind us of the difference between that and pistis?

Henry Jason:

Pistis is a noun, it gets usually translated as faith or belief, but in actuality the basic meaning of the word is trust, confidence, trust. If you look at this English word, confidence, that comes from a Latin word and the root of that word in confidence, that root there is from a Latin word, fides, which means faith, belief, trust.

Speaker 4:

Okay, so how is that different than accepts?

Henry Jason:

Oh no, except that's a different verb. I'm talking about the verb in 36.

Speaker 4:

Well, I know it feels the same to me the two words. I don't know how different it is the same to me, the two words.

Henry Jason:

I don't know how different it is. Okay, um pisto is the verb, same root as in this. This that's usually translated as believe, but in actuality the more common. The basic meaning of the word is to trust so, henry, is it the same?

Speaker 5:

have trust in I think what nancy is saying, if I'm understanding her, is in 32 the word is the word accepts and in 35 the word believes. Are those two different greek words and completely different words and then, um, it seems to us, as english readers, that they sort of mean the same thing yeah okay, all right yeah, yeah, all right to trust, have trust in, have confidence in henry, there's david.

Speaker 3:

I have a observation. I've just looked up the vulgate and somehow, jerome well, I use the word credit and that's pretty clearly believe in it. I think it would be a different Latin word to have confidence in or trust. Have trust, think of the word trust.

Henry Jason:

Trust is the basic word here. The real, essential meaning here is trust. It does have the sense too of believe whether something exists or not. But so often, in this gospel as elsewhere, it usually has that sense of not believing in god but putting trust in. You know, in latin and the creed there, uh, the nicene creed credo and credo in unum deum, I believe in one god.

Speaker 7:

I believe in one God.

Henry Jason:

But if you translate it also, I have confidence in one God. Or the root of that word create is the same root as in the word for heart. I put my heart, all my heart is in one God. I trust in one God.

Speaker 3:

I just think that, to the extent that the King James translators relied on or incorporated Jerome and the Vulgate and then those that had some revision since then, that it points more toward the head than the heart and I find that unfortunate Belief as propositional, as sense.

Henry Jason:

I'd have to look at the Latin translation and see how that's used here and elsewhere, as to believe, but here in the Greek anyway, this root basically has that sense. I think you'll find a more powerful understanding. Oh, I was going to say that the other verb in 32 and 33 is lambano. 32 and 33 is lambano, which is a very common Greek verb, which basically just means take. That's the basic meaning take, receive, accept. Okay, I don't want to stay too long on this, but when we come across these verbs again, you'll see the difference, perhaps better. Any other questions here before we move on to chapter four.

Speaker 6:

Henry, I've been thinking a lot about the word trust as it has to do with faith, maybe because I grew up in the Baptist church, like a very conservative Baptist church, and so often we would go back to that, to the verse um john 3, 16. That's kind of like the pivotal verse for some baptists not that they don't have a deeper understanding too, but I don't. I never. It never came across to me, so I always thought, as belief as in, like you know what you're saying, saying about you believe a statement, um, you believe in this? Yeah, it's really, and I never, I never. I mean I could feel something behind it, but I couldn't. I couldn't grasp what it meant.

Speaker 6:

But when I think of trust, I think of um, I think more of like an, an action, kind of thing, like I trust in um I was thinking about, like you, you know, I trust in my parents, for example, and so if they asked me to do something, you know, hopefully I'll go do it, even if I don't completely understand why they're asking me to do it. But I found that to be very helpful, like if we trust in Jesus, then we'll do what he's asking us to do, and so it's kind of like an action and faith together kind of thing, and not just believing a statement and everything will be okay that's, that's exactly what it is.

Henry Jason:

I mean again, uh, david was just making that point earlier in 16, you know, for god so loved the world that he gave his. Let me just check one thing here what's the greek monogamy? Yeah, his unique one of a kind son, so that everyone who puts their trust in him that he was who he said he was, that he did do what he did do, that god did raise him from the dead, that he did resurrect everyone who who trusts in him may not perish but may have eternal life. It's stronger and I think it's clearly less intellectual, more from the gut, that I absolutely trust in Jesus. I believe in him, but I trust in him and I trust what the record is, what the apostles and his disciples saw of him, what they saw and what they wrote and what they preached. That's that belief, that's that faith.

Speaker 8:

It's a lot of this sort of similar to the new perspective on Paul, if you're familiar.

Henry Jason:

I'm not sure what you're referring to about Paul.

Speaker 8:

The new perspective on Paul. Like NT Wright and theologians like that, particularly around the word a beast, is like faithfulness rather than just like.

Henry Jason:

Well, we I mean, I think you're getting into a whole different discussion about a different subject, in a way, but you're talking about justification.

Speaker 8:

I think and how that's understood, no but is it not related also to the, to the, the word pistis as well, like the misunderstanding of that of which word the word for pistis, pistis At least it is.

Henry Jason:

Hey, okay, let me let's just go to the granddaddy of dictionaries.

Henry Jason:

Here I mean, obviously it's a very important word in Christianity. Okay, I've got about two and a half pages here. I'll just go through the main headings. Okay, the main headings okay, that which evokes trust and faith, the state of being someone in whom confidence can be placed. That's the first definition. And then they give examples of translations faithfulness, reliability this is the word piece, this reliability, fidelity, commitment, assurance, proof.

Henry Jason:

And then the second area of meanings, a state of believing on the Reliability, fidelity, commitment, assurance, proof. And then the second area of meaning is a state of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted Trust, confidence, faith. And then there's subdivisions of that and lots of subdivisions, and finally, that which is believed, a body of faith, belief, teaching. Those first two I mean especially you know, trust, confidence, reliability. And if you go to the verb same thing, two or three pages here the verb to consider something to be true and therefore worthy of one's trust. I believe in God, I put my trust in God, I am convinced of who Jesus was, of what he did, of what he said, of what his disciples and all the gospel writers and Paul and others wrote of him, and that's a whole section. And the second meaning to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, to believe in, to trust.

Henry Jason:

Let me just finish here, first, david. Third meaning to entrust. Fourth meaning to be confident about, think or consider possible. So we're talking about trust and confidence here. Clearly, those are the basic meanings of that verb. Yeah, go ahead, david.

Speaker 3:

One more comparative translation here. The New English Bible 1961, in which London Yearly Meeting had a role, has the following rendering he who puts his faith in the Son has hold of eternal life. So it leans more toward the trusting than the intellectual believing.

Henry Jason:

Yes, okay, puts his face in. Yeah, trust, confidence I have a question, go ahead.

Speaker 7:

Okay, I am very grateful for the opportunity to hear you. I am very grateful for the opportunity to hear you discuss these words, especially the Greek parts. But I'm also interested in like applied Bible, like hermeneutics, like how do you do this in everyday life? Like how do you show it, how do you actually exercise it?

Henry Jason:

I understand your question. Yes, I think this verse isn't got right by itself here. Isn't going to explain that to us here? I think I'm just trying to think where else in the gospel, according to john, that would occur. I'm sorry, I just can't think at the moment.

Speaker 9:

Let me go back here I think in 17 there's something that might apply. It's when Jesus says Father, glorify thy son that thy son might glorify thee. It shows a relationship that's direct, immediate, associative.

Henry Jason:

Uh-huh, where is that in 17?

Speaker 9:

Right at the beginning.

Henry Jason:

The beginning. Well, I know that verse three is very important this definition of eternal life, this definition is and this is eternal life. This is chapter 17, verse 3. This is eternal life and that gives the definition that they may know you, the only true God, in Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. That they may know you, that they may experience you, experience you, the only true God, absolute divine truth in Jesus Christ, Jesus the anointed one, Jesus the Messiah, whom you have sent.

Speaker 5:

Do we show our trust through our obedience?

Henry Jason:

Yes, that's what's being said also in that same verse. Going back to chapter 3. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life. You have to be in alignment with God's will in everything you do, all days.

Speaker 7:

That was helpful. The obedience part of it, that was helpful the obedience part of it.

Henry Jason:

Also, this word pistis the root of that word has that sense of obey too. I could go on and on with this. We could spend the whole session here. But let me just get that word too. What's the word Pythomite? And let me just, since we're looking at these definitions, let's see what they say here. The word I'm looking up is the same root, the P-I-T-H or the P-I-S. Okay, it's not in this dictionary, If I'm spelling it right.

Henry Jason:

Sense means to persuade, and it also has the sense of to obey, because you're persuaded that something is true. Therefore you obey. All right, If you're pretty persuaded. In other words, if you have confidence, you will follow it. You will do it if you have this absolute confidence. I'd have to go get my other dictionary. I don't want to spend the time on this. I'll just put it in the notes when I get it later. Okay, what that says to me is that this word doesn't occur in the New Testament dictionary I have here. It's just another Greek word. Okay, All right, let's go on to the next story here. This is about the woman of Samaria. All right, We'll read from 1 to 15.

Henry Jason:

Now, when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard, Jesus is making and baptizing more disciples than John, although it was not Jesus himself but his disciples who baptized. He left Judea and started back to Galilee, but he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a Samaritan city called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there and Jesus, tired out by his journey, was sitting by the well. It was about noon. Let me just stop there for a second.

Henry Jason:

I don't know if there's anything here to report on or to comment on, if anyone has any questions there.

Henry Jason:

There is this comment in verse 1 that Jesus is making and baptizing more disciples than John, although it was not Jesus himself but his disciples who baptized. And of course, as we've seen already and later we'll see again I think we repeated the comment that the baptism of Jesus is a baptism of spirit and fire. It's a spiritual baptism, a spiritual immersion, immersion into the spirit of God, immersion with fire, and that with fire is again fire understood. One of its properties is it separates the good metal from the dross, the unwanted part, and it's making one pure in a jewish sense. Pure because nothing impure, nothing filed, can enter into the temple of god in jerusalem and likewise, if we are temples of the Holy Spirit, as Paul says, the Apostle Paul says we too need to be pure. We just won't have God in us in that sense, that recognizable true sense. On the other hand, God is always trying to break into us, get through our thick egos, our thick-skinned egos, and help us to change, and can help us if we allow him.

Speaker 3:

Before we leave, verse 6, I think it's significant that it says about the sixth hour or around noon. Yes, that is important.

Henry Jason:

Because there's something about the status of the woman, the woman there who's coming? The Samaritan woman. Normally women would go get their water early in the morning so they'd have water for the day. She's coming alone at noon, all by herself, not with the other women, and of course we learn who she is and what she is. Would that make that more understandable?

Henry Jason:

Likewise with Samaria, the Samaritans were considered to be half-breeds, half-Jewish, so they weren't really considered Jewish at all by other Jews of this time. They were a mixture of the Jews and the Assyrians, I think, who did not get exiled, brought to Babylon, so they were always considered separate. They only believed in the Torah, the book of Moses. They didn't accept many of the other books of what we call Old Testament, so at times many Jews would just try to avoid going through their towns or anywhere. There are still Samaritans left today. I should say Not many, but there are still some survivors of the Samaritans. Okay, shall I go on?

Henry Jason:

A Samaritan woman came to draw water and Jesus said to her give me a drink. His disciples had gone to the city to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him how is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria? Jews do not share things in common with Samaritans. Jesus answered her If you knew the gift of God and who it is that is saying to you Give me a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

Henry Jason:

The woman said to him, sir, you have no bucket and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water? Are you greater than our ancestor Jacob, who gave us the well and, with his sons and his flocks, drank from it? Jesus said to her Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but those who drink of the water that I will give them will never be thirsty. The water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life.

Henry Jason:

The woman said to him, sir, give me this water so that I may never be thirsty or have to keep coming here to draw water. There's a comment here in verse 9. In my translation it's in parentheses Jews do not share things in common with Samaritans. This obviously is here, because part of the audience that this gospel was written for may not have known that. So we are talking about some Christians who are not ethnically Jews, and this is to clarify that for those who may not understand what's happening here and the relationships between Jews and Samaritans and what's actually going to happen here.

Speaker 3:

And Henry yes, how did she know he was a Jew? On what basis did she label him a Jew?

Henry Jason:

Good question? I would possibly think, but I don't know if that might be clothing or accent. You know there were different dialects at that time. Peter, after Jesus was arrested and when he went and followed him in Jerusalem, the woman at the gate there where Jesus was being interrogated recognized that he had a Galilean accent. So it's possible that that might have said something to the woman right away. I mean, I know someone immediately if they have, say, a very thick accent, if they're from Alabama or Georgia. I myself am from Cambridge, massachusetts, so if I were to speak like a Bostonian you'd recognize that I'm a Bostonian. I mean, I know I can't park my car in Harvard. Yard is how I would ordinarily say that you know.

Henry Jason:

That sounds pretty authentic it is pretty authentic, you know.

Henry Jason:

Or if I were to say you know, four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, you know, on this continent. You know, my accent gives me away. I hope so. Anyway, I think it's probably accent or clothing or something.

Henry Jason:

Okay, Henry, yes, my translation has a note about the term living water. I'm going to get to that. A note about the term living water. I'm going to get to that. Oh, okay, all right, yeah, okay, just want to check the Greek here again 10, 10, 10. Where are we Udazone? Yes, okay, let's put that there.

Henry Jason:

Udor is water, zone is a participle meaning living. Now, in Greek and I'm assuming this is perhaps also true in Aramaic Hebrew, living water refers to water that is flowing. Okay, now, if you recall last time, there are three words that are used, especially in the New Testament, to refer to what we call spirit, especially in the New Testament, to refer to what we call spirit the word penelma, p-n-e-u-m-a, and then also the word hudor, water, and the word eleon, which means oil, olive oil, and penelma means wind, breath. Those are the three words that are used to refer to the spirit in an inward sense. The most common one by far is the first word, penelma, and that's the word that we usually see to refer to spirit. But Hodor also can refer to spirit, as well as Elyon and again, all three words. What they have in comment is movement, emotion. They're in movement, they're flowing, they're things that flow and this is important because the inward sense about the spirit is that it's something that moves, it's in motion and all these three words are things that flow and friends in their writings would talk about the inflowing of the Holy Spirit within us, this inward, invisible movement of the Spirit of God. But the word hudor and elion also are used this way too. It's an important point, is the word you usually see, and we just had this earlier in chapter three, in verse eight. The wind blows where it chooses and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. At the same time that has a double meaning. The spirit goes where it wants to. You hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. And so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit that Spirit in them comes and goes.

Henry Jason:

So living water again is just the expression to refer to flowing water, like in a stream, a river, a creek, well, water is not flowing water. So Jesus is saying something interesting here. She says oh, I mean living water, fresh water, you know, rather than water that's in a well, living water, flowing water is obviously fresher. Now, that's the understanding of it. So you know, gee, I'd rather have that kind of water. In verse 11, my translation says Sir, you have no bucket and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water? In my translation it's translated as Sir, what do you have in your translations?

Speaker 3:

Sir.

Henry Jason:

Curious yes Mine says, says Lord yes, okay, the word is kurios.

Speaker 3:

Would that indicate that she's beginning to have some faith in him. Is that a statement?

Henry Jason:

of faith. No, not necessarily. Kurios has two basic meanings in ancient Greek and modern Greek. The basic meaning means owner or master, an owner of a house, a master of a slave. The second meaning is a polite form of address and that would mean sir. When anyone who does not know Jesus is talking to him, they often will call him kurios, sir. When it means owner or master, the translation we give it usually is lord In a sense. It's unfortunate that we give it that translation because we don't have any lords and ladies and we don't really understand what's really being said here.

Henry Jason:

The word kurios is also the word that was used to refer to the emperor Caesar. He was the owner, the master of the empire, the Roman Empire. If you recall, with the persecution of Christians in the first three centuries, one way you could really ascertain that someone was a Christian was to ask him to pour a libation of wine on the ground, on something else actually, and at the same time say Caesar is kurios. Now for a Christian, a Christian could not say Caesar is kurios, he only say jesus is kurios. Also, I want to get back to this word kurios, and this is an important thing. Kurios is the word used for god in the old testament, as that we translate as lord, lord, god, god, oh, it's, it's lord. In philippians 2, there's a section from verse 5 through 11, where I don't want to talk about it now because we're really finished, but it says at the very end, like verse 10-11, because of Jesus's complete faithfulness, completely obeying God even to the point of death, he is exalted above all beings and entitled to the name Kurios, like the name given to God the Father. So we now call Jesus Kurios as well as God the Father, kurios. It's an important point, but we're really finished now so I can't say too much more now, but anyway. So this term, even in modern Greek, is a way of addressing a man and calling him mister or sir, but it has those other very important meanings. Again, she's asking for this eternal, this living water. She'd much rather have some real fresh water, and Jesus is again saying the water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life, the spirit, that spring of divine spirit in them gushing up to eternal life. Of course, as I was saying too, she's alone here, eternal life. Of course, as I was saying too, she's alone here. So we're going to stop here, but next time we'll continue to know that and see what she does in terms of running back to the village.

Henry Jason:

This word, lord, is very important. I think so many christians, so many millions of people who call themselves christians, are not really do not have a real deep sense of what it means to call Jesus Lord or God the Father. Lord, I mean owner. Think of that, master, if you were a slave. God is master. This is a powerful word and so many of us use it as if it's just a title that doesn't have any meaning behind it. I almost would like to eliminate the word Lord and put master there in the sense of an owner. God made us, he owns us.

Speaker 4:

And at the same time, it's a radical critique of the emperor.

Henry Jason:

Oh, yes, or it would become eventually. Yeah, that was one of the tests, if you weren't sure if someone was really a Christian. It's a political thing, actually. You know that was one of the tests, if you weren't sure if someone was really a christian. It's a political thing actually. You know. Christian just could not say that the emperor was kurios, god was kurios, jesus was kurios henry, I'm so glad that we're getting into this.

Speaker 3:

this is such high drama. It's just so engaging. It's not just a flat narrative, it's full of life.

Henry Jason:

All right, so next week we will continue with this interesting story about the woman up the well, and I will see you all then. Thank you.

Speaker 7:

Thank you so much, bye, bye.

Chip Thomas:

This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website, ohioyourneymeetingorg.