Ohio Yearly Meeting's Podcast

Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #9

• Henry Jason

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John 4:14-45

Jesus teaches that our spiritual life requires inward baptism and transformation beyond outward forms of worship.

  • Understanding scripture requires seeking the spiritual sense behind the physical language
  • Jesus breaks social barriers by speaking with a Samaritan woman at Jacob's well
  • The woman recognizes Jesus as a prophet when he reveals knowledge of her complicated past
  • True worship happens "in spirit and truth" rather than at specific physical locations
  • Jesus plainly declares "I am he" when the woman mentions the coming Messiah
  • The Samaritan woman becomes an evangelist, bringing her village to meet Jesus
  • Believers ultimately testify: "We have heard for ourselves and know this is truly the Savior"
  • Jesus teaches that his spiritual food is doing God's will
  • The fields are already "ripe for harvesting" as people come to believe


The hour is coming and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.


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Chip Thomas:

Advice 27. Remember that our spiritual life will not be complete unless we have experienced an inward baptism and transformation. Growth in inward purity and outward Christian effectiveness should follow this experience, but such growth can come only if we persist in seeking to know and follow the commands of Christ. From Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline.

Henry Jason:

This is the OIM Greek Bible Study. We are reading the Gospel according to John. This is session number nine. John, this is session number nine, and we left off in chapter four, ending with verse 15.

Henry Jason:

What I want to do first is read something I've read twice now at the Fundamental Belief Sessions, and this is a comment of an early Christian by the name of Origen on reading the Gospels and what he has to say about looking at the different levels of reading and understanding. I feel it's very important because you don't often see anything like this kind of thing in modern Christian writings, but this was something written 1800 years ago. This is a commentary of his part of a commentary written sometime between the years 226 and 232 and later, and he talks about the three different levels of interpreting the New Testament. He says here I do not condemn the evangelists, that is, the writers of the gospels, if, to serve their mystical view view, they have in some way rearranged actual historical events in an order other than that in which they occurred, so as to tell of what happened in one place as if it had happened in another, or of what happened at a certain time as if it had happened at another time, and to introduce into what was said, in a certain way, some variations of their own, for they proposed to speak the truth both pneumatically, ie spiritually, and somatically, ie literally, in so far as possible, and where this was not possible, to prefer the pneumatic, the spiritual, to the somatic, the literal.

Henry Jason:

They often preserved the pneumatic, the spiritual to the somatic, the literal. They often preserved the pneumatic, the spiritual truth, in what some might call a somatic, literal falsehood. The somatic is the literal, the material, the physical sense of the sacred writings, sense of the sacred writings. The psychic or the ethical, moral sense is the second higher level and the highest level is the pneumatic or the spiritual and allegorical, mystical sense. So you have those three senses. The highest and the most important is the pneumatic, the allegorical, mystical sense, and this is what the early Quaker writer Robert Barclay always was saying to seek the spiritual sense behind the sacred writings that we read. Any questions?

Speaker 3:

I'd like you to explain a little more what he means by allegorical and how that fits with our previous discussion of Pneuma.

Henry Jason:

The spiritual sense is that, Pneumaticos, that it's a spiritual kind of understanding. If you want to think of the allegory I've mentioned this in different words in the past here that because we are human, because we use human language, we are required to use all kinds of words, comments, labels that have to do with worldly things, physical things, and to express the spiritual. We are required, just by the nature of language, to use concepts and words that refer to actual, concrete, somatic, that is, literal kinds of things, but we really have to go beyond them and seek the deeper spiritual meaning behind them. So he's basically saying what I've said in the past. Okay, any comments? We can go on All right.

Henry Jason:

We begin with verse 16 in chapter 4. We're reading about the encounter of Jesus with this Samaritan woman at the well. He asked her for a drink of water from the well. Of course it was extremely unusual and for a strange man to speak to any woman at this time out there in public, let alone a Samaritan woman, who the Samaritans were despised, as I said, by other Jews because they were considered to be kind of half-breeds. They weren't real Jews as such. Okay, verse 16. Jesus said to her go call your husband and come back. The woman answered him I have no husband. Jesus said to her you are right in saying I have no husband, For you have had five husbands and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true. The woman said to him Sir, I see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem. Jesus said to her Woman believe me, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father, neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews, but the hour is coming and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. The woman said to him I know that messiah is coming, who is called christ. When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us. Jesus said to her I am he the one who is speaking to you In verse 20, where it says our ancestors worshipped on this mountain, but you? That's plural, it's not a singular, but you people say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem. And then in the following verse, Jesus says to her woman believe me, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Henry Jason:

I think I've mentioned this before, but again, this word woman is gune in Greek and this is the root in the word gynecology, the gyne. There is the gun gune, and it means woman. But it also has another meaning, If anyone recalls I may have said this before here that it also means it's a polite form of address. It's like saying ma'am or madam. Jesus would never be saying to this woman woman, I mean, no one speaks that way in English, unless there's something unusual going on. They're being arrogant or they're angry or whatever. It's an incorrect translation here. They should be translating as ma'am or madam. If you look at the ancient Greek plays, you'll find women addressed there with the same word gune woman. It's just a polite form of addressing a woman in Greek for hundreds of years.

Henry Jason:

Verse 23 is a very important verse for Quakers.

Henry Jason:

The hour is coming and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him, seek such as these to worship him.

Henry Jason:

This is a very different kind of worship, worshiping in spirit, worshiping in truth, rather than the kind of worship you had in Jerusalem at the temple sacrificing animals, all sorts of rites and rituals, different holidays, holy days, you name it. There were so many throughout the year and Jesus is saying that in the future, the hour is coming, and now is here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, because God is spirit. This is the basis for our Quaker waiting worship. Friends would always refer to this verse, among others, but especially this verse, that our religion is a religion of the Spirit. Our worship is a worship in Spirit, our silent waiting worship, and also in truth, in the Spirit of truth. The Spirit of Christ in Jesus says I am truth, I am the truth, I am the way to the Father. This worship in truth, in the Spirit, is the actual basis for why Quakers worship as we do historically, as conservative friends have conserved it over the many years.

Speaker 4:

That's an important teaching of Jesus that all Christians should be aware of is God is spirit.

Henry Jason:

In Robert Barclay's Catechism and Confession of Faith, there are 23 articles of faith. He asks 23 questions and then he gives the answers by stringing together various verses of the Bible. The first question is what is God? And he quotes this God is a spirit. God is spirit and it goes on from there, and this is exactly relevant to what we're reading here, the point being that we don't need some new form of rite and ritual or a set of rites and rituals to worship God in some more physically manifested way, because God is a spirit and this is the true worship. If you recall, in the Psalms it says be still and know that I am God. And also in Revelation I think it's in chapter 8, it says there was stillness in heaven for a half hour. Again, there's this kind of understanding of a certain silence. A certain type of silence is worship when we are focused on God, the Father, on Christ, his Son.

Speaker 5:

I have a question just about sort of the internal distinctions here to the passage. So okay, so God is spirit. Earlier, in verse 20, there seems to be a rejection of sort of the physical location because, okay, jews worshipped on I forget the mountain. The Samaritans worshipped on a different mountain, zion, zion, right, zion, yeah, okay, thank you. And then salvation is from the Jews. And then there's the rejection of that and I get the locale-based rejection. But what does it mean? In verse 22, salvation is from the Jews. Does that just mean, is that usually interpreted to be sort of legalistic salvation? Is it sort of ethnic salvation? I mean, I don't know that, I'm just kind of thinking about it.

Henry Jason:

Okay, I'm just looking at the Greek here. Hold on, we worship what we know, because salvation, healing, is from the Jews. But then this word, but that follows, is really a very strong but, but rather, or on the contrary, this is the Greek word Allah, a-l-l-a, which is a conjunction, which is a very strong but, but rather, on the contrary, that kind of. We're going beyond even that distinction in verse 23, the first word in the Greek original, however, it's like. However, the hour is coming. However, on the contrary, the hour is coming, the time is coming and now exists, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, will worship the Father in spirit and truth, indeed, for indeed the Father is seeking such ones worshiping him that way.

Speaker 3:

Henry. Yeah, could it be that he's referring to the promise given to Abraham when he says salvation is from the Jews?

Henry Jason:

Just sort of looking backwards rather than saying that might be true, but I mean, I think the Samaritans believe. Well, their temple was there, on what was the name of the mount? Uh, gerizim, gerizim, I think, something like that, and I'm sure there was a rival there between the two temples, obviously. However, he goes beyond that with that. Allah On the contrary, or just however, go beyond these two. This fight so that's why I don't want to put too much emphasis on salvation is from the Jews, because he's going even beyond that.

Speaker 7:

So, salvation is from the Jews, maybe Abraham actually Abraham did, probably.

Henry Jason:

You know. That's what's the assumption there. I think yeah, jack go ahead.

Speaker 4:

Salvation is of the Jews. That was Jesus, I think was referring to the old covenant, right, but the but that they picked up the but sort of the shift is. Jesus saw the time is coming and and now is, which is when the new covenant will be coming in and the worship will become spiritual yes, yeah, I mean it's sort of a shift from the old covenant to the new right that, but is again stronger than but.

Henry Jason:

It's on the contrary, or however?

Speaker 6:

moreover, yes, nancy I understand what he says, but I I still believe that he's also referring to himself, because he is our salvation and he comes from the jewish line okay, yeah, yes, because he's talking.

Henry Jason:

he talks about the, the Messiah, in a couple of verses from there. Let's go there. Actually, 24,. God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. And the woman said to him I know that Messiah is coming and that's interesting because there's a parenthetical understanding of that. There's a parenthetical understanding of that.

Henry Jason:

There's like a translation of it and it's translated Messias, which is the Greek word for Messiah, which is just a transliteration of the Hebrew Mashiach, which is Hebrew Aramaic, or the Anointed One. And then it gets translated into Greek HaLlegomenos Christos, which is translated Christ, which is translated the anointed one. That indicates to us that this gospel was written for people who were not Jewish and did not know Hebrew or Aramaic, and needed to have that word translated into Greek, which was Christos, which means anointed, which is what Messiah means the one who was anointed with the Holy Spirit. He has the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, rubbed into him, poured into him, completely, fully. When that one comes, he will declare everything to us. Then Jesus says to her I am, he, it's me the one speaking to you. What Nancy is saying is that reference is there? Yes, David.

Speaker 3:

When we've been studying Mark, we keep seeing what some have called the messianic secret that he keeps saying you know, don't tell people. And I just wonder, do we find that theme here in John? Because you know, he's very clear that I am the Messiah, but he's not saying and don't tell anybody.

Henry Jason:

No, I think there's a good reason for that, if you understand when that was written. The Gospel of according to John was written probably it was the last of these four canonical Gospels, written most likely in the 90s. The final edition of it, which is several decades, 60 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus, mark was the earliest gospel of the canonical gospels that was written and I think perhaps there was no reason to look at it this way anymore as the messianic secret that they clearly understood at this point in time, several decades later, that there was something totally different about Jesus that they didn't quite see when they were apostles and disciples of Jesus during his lifetime. Now, just if recalling what I just read, from Origen too, that the writer or writers of this gospel are looking you know this hindsight here, and so they may be putting words into the text as a way of making this text a teaching instrument, a way of teaching people about Jesus. I think that's also one possible maybe not possibility, maybe not here, but you'll see that elsewhere. We don't look at that way today, but you know this is 2000 years later. But I agree with the messianic secret that in Mark, jesus doesn't want to let people know that he is who he is, although, if you remember here and well, we haven't come to it yet, but in chapter six of John, after the miracle of the multiplication of the loaves of bread, the crowds are just so amazed at Jesus. They want to make him king, in other words, the Messiah. They see him as the Messiah, but what does Jesus do? He runs away from them. He is not a political Messiah, a spiritual Messiah, yes. Political, no, we'll get there. Messiah, yes. Political, no, we'll get there. Anything else. Back to the English. This is verse 27.

Henry Jason:

Just then his disciples came, his students. They were astonished that he was speaking with a woman, but no one said what do you want or why are you speaking with her? But no one said what do you want or why are you speaking with her. Then the woman left her water jar and went back to the city. She said to the people come and see a man who told me everything I have ever done. He cannot be the Messiah, can he? They left the city and were on their way to him Again. The disciples clearly were really surprised that Jesus was speaking to a strange woman. This just wasn't something you did in public, but obviously she's so amazed at him knowing stuff about her that she runs back to the town and has to tell everybody.

Henry Jason:

Meanwhile, the disciples were urging him, rabbi, eat something. But he said to them I have food to eat that you do not know about. So the disciples said to one another surely no one has brought him something to eat. Jesus said to them my food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to complete his work. Do you not say four months more? Then comes the harvest. But I tell you, look around you and see how the fields are ripe for harvesting. The reaper is already receiving wages and is gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true one sows and another reaps. I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored and you haven't entered into their labor. Of course, calling jesus rabbi, they're just saying in aramaic and hebrew, teacher. And as I mentioned, the word disciple is basically the Greek word mathetes, which means student, pupil. So he's the teacher, they are his students, as we should be too.

Henry Jason:

And again, here we have a case of the comparison of inward and outward understandings. They asked Jesus to eat something and he's going to answer in an inward way, not an outward way. They're asking about physical, outward food. He's saying that he has inward food to eat and the food is to feed on the words of God and to do his will. We just saw that kind of comparison when we were talking about nicodemus earlier in chapter three, kingdom of god being taken outwardly as something that's coming in the future, whereas it's something inward that's already there, if only as a seed, but something that can grow, that we can enter into.

Henry Jason:

In verse 36 we have the term eternal life, which is again the most common word used here life and eternal life, for which in the gospel according to Luke is more often called the kingdom of God, in the gospel according to Matthew it's more often called the kingdom of heaven. Actually it's a plural word word the kingdom of the heavens in greek, and that word in greek or in us means sky and plural skies, but it also has that sense of an inward sense of heaven, not just that outward, physical sense of sky. Okay, verse 39. They said to the woman it is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and we know that this is truly the Savior of the world.

Henry Jason:

Again, here in verse 40, it says he stayed there for two days references to very specific places and time, which would indicate that the source of some of these stories goes back to someone who was really there. It wasn't just passed on from one person to another, but you get actual kinds of statements that it would make no sense to put them in there if they weren't already there in the original source. The beloved disciple that was the source for this work. Any comments?

Speaker 3:

I'm leery about speaking so much, but it really is the question In verse 29, you've mentioned that Greek doesn't have punctuation or capitalization. How do we know that that's a question?

Henry Jason:

All of the English translations I have show it as an interrogatory and I wonder if that is implied in the verb.

Speaker 3:

Let me see it One second 29.

Henry Jason:

Yeah, Mm-hmm 29. Yeah, come see the man who told me all things, whatever, all sorts of things, whatever so ever. I did the negative particle here meti M-A, what would be M-E-T-I in English that might imply a question here.

Henry Jason:

But your question is a very good one, because sometimes we do not know, and it's the editors right very shortly in chapter 5. I should just go there right now, chapter 5, verse 39. If you look at that, my translation has here you search the scriptures. You see that very verse. You search the scriptures. Well, the Greek word right here unfortunately is the same form for the imperative as the present tense, so you could translate this as search the scriptures, or you search the scriptures. Either way, we don't know in this particular case. But this is the question that comes up all the time David, when, again, greek was only written in capital letters, no spaces between words, no punctuation, and so sometimes these problems occur. One way of resolving them is to see if any early Christian commented on the verse and how that early Christian understood that verse, whether it was a question or not. That's often helpful and that's what oftentimes modern translators will point to.

Speaker 7:

But then there is sometimes In all ancient Greek literature there's no punctuation marks at all, none at all, none at all. So so, even like with, like homer, and like the classic greek, like, how would a greek person then, reading like, have any idea? Like, how would an author even make it clear? It seems like it would be very confusing I'm assuming.

Henry Jason:

Well, if you heard something, someone was saying it orally and you heard it orally, you might hear the difference in terms of intonation and would understand it then well, didn't most people?

Speaker 8:

didn't most people know these things from hearing them orally, and so that the written down version was mainly a record and a help, rather than how people learned it originally.

Henry Jason:

That's a guess, but it seems plausible it depends on what kind of literature Homer's Iliad and Odyssey originally, before they ever got written down. It's amazing to think that anyone could memorize something that long in poetic verse. What is that? Epic hexameter or something? Andra moiana usipa lutrapan hosmala Pala Plankthaya goes on for another 24 books. Actually they were sung and it is easy to remember things when they're sung.

Speaker 6:

I have one other comment that's on a different path, but just to say I find it touching that after just a few sentences, she's the one who brings up the word Messiah. After just a few sentences, she's the one who brings up the word Messiah, and this is coming from a woman who's got to be an outcast of an outcast group, and she's the one who intuits this. And we see that in other places too.

Henry Jason:

Yes, also, I do remember reading that the Samaritans expected a Messiah also. But it is kind of interesting that what you're saying is here. You know, oftentimes we're just getting a little snippet of what happened here between Jesus and this unnamed woman. I'm sure there were a few more things said here than just these three or four sentences, and so people who knew the story and would hear this gospel read to them would remember more than we. You know, no, we just have the gospel left. But oh, they could say oh, yeah, that's right, she said that and he was doing this and we don't have that background anymore so we can sort of figure out what was going on. But they did actually have the same belief in a Messiah, a future Messiah, and it's kind of interesting that she saw him as the Messiah.

Speaker 3:

Yes, go ahead. The reason I raised the question is that if there's any ambiguity at all on verse 29 about whether it's a question, if it could have been a declarative thing, like he is the Messiah, that would be phenomenal. But I just wonder that word meti does that um I think that implies a question.

Henry Jason:

I'm looking it up right now okay my, my, my first thought is it does, but let me stay here. I may be confusing this with Makedi.

Speaker 3:

Well, all the translations I have make it a question.

Henry Jason:

Okay, it's a marker that invites a negative response to the question that it introduces. A marker that invites a negative response to the question that it introduces. Now, how was the question asked there?

Speaker 3:

She doesn't want a negative response. I think it's sort of a rhetorical question.

Henry Jason:

What verse was it that we?

Speaker 3:

were looking at 29.

Henry Jason:

29. 29. He cannot be the Messiah, can he?

Speaker 5:

Isn't it a little bit like English, or more, like I mean you'd say more in Spanish, like you'd say you know, affirmative and then comma and then no question mark? He's the messiah, no, isn't that? Is that what?

Henry Jason:

what they're saying, like inviting a negative response yeah, I, I'm thinking in english, though you also can do this, but then the intonation matters. Let me just think of an example. Or you could say he's from london, isn't he? And then you can also say he's from london, isn't he? There's a different understanding with my intonation when I say he's from london isn't he?

Henry Jason:

I expect you to agree, but I uh, if I say it, he's from, from London, isn't he? My voice rises, so that's what I'm saying. Sometimes intonation matters, but you know, greek English does not pay attention to intonation. And yet there is a difference at times, so we have to make some assumptions.

Speaker 3:

I'm looking at Goodspeed's rendering of this and it does feel more positive. Rather than inviting a negative, it says do you suppose he is the Christ? It's an open question, but I think she would like an affirmative answer.

Henry Jason:

I'm sure she's not expecting a Christ to be in front of her at the moment let's put it that way but something just happened here with his ability to know something about her sexual life and um she was then able after that, to go up into the city and convince the men that christ was there and they came down and invited them yes, so it shows she really came to believe strongly that she could do that that's really amazing again, a woman doing this at that time.

Henry Jason:

come on now, even if you think of the at the resurrection of jesus, if you recall, the women went to the tomb to anoint Jesus with the oils burial and they found the empty tomb. And they ran back to the disciples and they wouldn't believe them because you needed two witnesses, of course, to have your testimony accepted, and those two witnesses always had to be male. A woman's testimony would not be accepted.

Speaker 4:

And so then the disciples went and looked for themselves.

Henry Jason:

Peter and others. So it was a man's world.

Speaker 9:

Henry, yeah, can you hear me? Yes, yeah, the part that I really always get struck with every time I read this part is he told me everything I ever did, and I also like the way that they repeat it. It feels almost cinematic to me the way it's repeated later. I can picture this movie happening and then this kind of this voice. But I really find that part really touching, and then also thinking about how complicated her life is. She's had five husbands and the man she's with now is not her husband. Because I think of how Jesus seems to be able to see, he seems to be able to look at people around him and he really understands them and knows them. And in my own life, my own personal life, can become so complicated sometimes and I can't see straight, I can't really see it straight, but then christ is able to show it to me and all of a sudden make sense of my complications and then all of a sudden I can. I get goosebumps whenever I read this yes, I understand that experience, dave and she wasn't.

Henry Jason:

She wasn't humiliated, no, she took it as loving also remember that this is happening in the middle of the day, as I had said. Ordinarily all the women would go to the well early in the morning to get water for the whole day. She's not with those women. You know she would be scorned, uh, she had to go alone when they weren't there, and so that even makes it more amazing that she goes back to the town and uh tells them I mean, I could see them not believing her too. But you know, eventually, uh, when they see uh jesus and hear him, they, they understand it's another example of women speaking justified ah, yes margaret, fox margaret fell.

Henry Jason:

I don't remember if that's mentioned in that work or not this is relevant to different Christian approaches to the gospel also.

Speaker 4:

It's sort of good, better and best, and it was good that the men believed her testimony that Christ had come. But then when Jesus and his disciples spent time with him, they saw for themselves and that was best. For Christians today it's good to hear others testify that christ is common, that they've experienced him, but it's best, like for quakers to see for ourselves, by waiting upon him and experiencing his living presence with us and so that's best yes, yes, are we sure that she didn't go to the women, because it just says samaritans.

Speaker 8:

Does it give a gender?

Henry Jason:

uh, hold on a second. 39. Okay, it's plural, grammatically masculine, which would mean either only men or a mixed group of men and women. Many believed in him, put their faith in him, put their trust in him, their confidence of the Samaritans. And again, that's grammatically masculine form, which would also include the feminine. It's unmarked, therefore it can be both more often is both, because of words, of the woman who had testified that he told me everything which I have done, had testified that he told me everything which I have done.

Henry Jason:

In 40, when the Samaritans came to him, that word again is masculine, but it also can include male and female, and that's the same throughout the rest of this section. Here he said no longer because of your talk do we believe For ourselves. We have heard, we ourselves have heard and know that this one is truly the savior of the world. Okay, let's go on one little bit more here.

Henry Jason:

When the two days were over, he went from that place to Galilee, for Jesus himself had testified that a prophet has no honor in the prophet's own country. When he came to Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him, since they had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the festival, for they too had gone to the festival. I wondered myself about this sort of parenthetical remark in 44. It doesn't logically follow, as far as I can tell, from verse 43. So he left Samaria and he went back to Galilee, all right In 43. And then I'm not sure why it says here, for Jesus himself had testified that a prophet has no honor in the prophet's own country. Jesus is from Galilee.

Speaker 8:

He was looking for a challenge. He was looking for a challenge.

Henry Jason:

He was looking for for a challenge um, let me look at something here again. After two days he went. He went away from there to galilee. And then it's this for you know, because for jesus himself testified that a prophet in his own country, in his own fatherland, doesn't have honor to me. That's a non-sequitur. It doesn't follow the previous verse. I'm just wondering if this is a verse that is out of order. I don't know if anyone else can make sense of it.

Speaker 8:

I'm sort of being glib. But maybe he was there intentionally because he thought that he would not be believed. Maybe he did want to speak to people who he didn't think would believe him.

Henry Jason:

Well, basically most of Jesus's preaching was in Galilee, except we know from this gospel that he went three times down to Jerusalem or up to Jerusalem. In the other gospels Matthew, mark and Luke they do not have any references to his ministry being over three years, whereas there is here in this gospel enough statements showing that he had made several visits. But basically he was in Galilee and it was finally the final time. When he was in Jerusalem is when he was arrested and then executed, and then execute it.

Henry Jason:

Two of my translations into English make it parenthetical but other ones let it just flow along Either way. Parenthetical too. It's just some like maybe there's a word lost or something that's not in any text that we have. That just makes this to me seem. This doesn't only happen here. It occurs in a couple of two other couple of other places in this gospel too. As I think I said once, there seem to be parts of this whole gospel that are out of place, out of order, and no one has been able to explain that. That, uh, some things. You know where jesus is sort of ending a statement of something and they're leaving, and then suddenly it starts up again in the next verse and it didn't, it didn't bother origin.

Henry Jason:

He says okay, that's all right I don't know about that, but uh, uh, but uh no, the I'm thinking what modern scholars are thinking here, that it just, you know, there may be different notes from this beloved disciple than when he passed. They just put them together as best they could, but they didn't quite follow an exact sequence. Again, I'm referring to the very last couple of verses at the end of the Gospel of John, where it says this is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. But there are also many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. So you've got this we and this I and different people involved here at some point. First, the disciple they're referring to is the beloved disciple that's mentioned in that section of that last chapter, when they're at the Sea of Galilee fishing and Jesus appears to them there. All right, great. I think we'll stop there for tonight.

Speaker 10:

I just have a question. I actually have a greek word. I just wondered if people can ask um questions about a greek word that's in a different gospel, like maybe matthew or something. Do you have some time like set aside that people can ask, like a little bit off the current gospel, to ask their question?

Henry Jason:

okay, yeah, why don't you do it now? I mean, I guess people want to leave, we're all finished. But uh, if you want to hear, see what hope is asking, I hope to answer it.

Speaker 10:

I'm kind of curious now what the word is, okay let me tell you it comes from matthew 5, 6, so we're in the beatitudes, the, the Jesus blessings the greatest moral discourse. Okay, and the word is dikaiosune.

Henry Jason:

Dikaiosune. Dikaiosune, that's the word that gets translated as righteousness, and dikaios why don't I write it out here, on the share of the screen here?

Speaker 10:

The word I was trying to say is dikaios.

Henry Jason:

Well, okay, I have it here Dikaiosune that's the word, and that's the word that gets translated as righteousness and righteousness, that's a noun. The adjective is dikaios, and that's the word that gets translated as righteous, but the one I've got is not spelled like that. It's d-i-k-a and then it's i-o, but it's s-y-n-i the y is fine, the u I'm using the U for that Y. Yes, that's right, but it's.

Speaker 10:

Y and I and I understood that that word meant justice and that those have been some mistaken translations.

Henry Jason:

Okay. This is an important word. I'll talk about the adjective here. Dikaios means upright in modern english, okay, upright in the sense so often in the bible is upright in god's eyes. What is upright, what is right in god's eyes? Okay and the same thing with righteousness is the abstract noun. What is upright in God's eyes, behavior, actions, words, thoughts.

Speaker 10:

Would it also be something that was just?

Henry Jason:

Yes, just Okay, let's go further. The English word just Like justice yes, it's that word, Okay, english just comes from a Latin word, justus, which is the Latin translation of this word, dekaios, meaning upright, and so it is related to the word justice, and it can mean justice. Can mean justice Most often, I believe in the New Testament. You're talking about what I'm saying here upright, the right kind of behavior, the right kind of speech, the right kind of thinking that is pleasing to God. And so you have this dikaios, dikaiosune. Again, the English word just is justus, and then the noun justicia. My Latin is not as good as my Greek, though, but that's the noun, so justus is just an adjective. Is the on the list of receiving notes from me? I think so. I'll just send these to the okay, so you have the English just comes from the, and these are just translations of these greek words. So can mean justice not usually, but it's possible, and a just person is an upright person, a righteous person. We're talking about the same thing.

Speaker 3:

I'm looking at a Hebrew translation and they give the word tzedek or tzedekot. Yes, that's the word, and it's a very rich word in Hebrew. No one word encompasses it, but it's righteousness, it's justice, it's social equity. It's a lot of things there was a temple in our neighborhood that was named Rudfied Sedeq. The pursuit of righteousness, seek justice and pursue it.

Henry Jason:

How do?

Speaker 3:

you spell it.

Henry Jason:

T-Z-E-D-E-K is it?

Speaker 3:

Well, yeah, you know the consonants T-Z-E-d-e-k.

Henry Jason:

Right, and then various derivatives that was really good, thank you let me just put it down here um yeah, so I don't know Hebrew. I mean, I know some things, but I really can't talk much about the Hebrew.

Speaker 3:

It was one of the 30 key words that we had in a class called Introduction to the Hebraic Way of Thinking, so this was very high up there thinking. So this was very high up there. There's also a cross-reference to Daniel 9.24, about everlasting righteousness To those that might have had Jewish Hebrew awareness. This would call forth much more than the kind of justice that a court might mete out which could be implied in the Latin.

Henry Jason:

Yeah, I hesitate to go to the Latin often because you know you're one language away from the original Greek. Then I'm assuming the Greek is usually right, because the people that were writing these things were, in this case, bilingual or trilingual, they knew Aramaic, greek and Hebrew. Bilingual or trilingual, they knew Aramaic, greek and Hebrew. So I would say they were basically correct in their choice of words. Okay, anything else?

Speaker 10:

No, thank you.

Henry Jason:

Thank you and I can close. I can stop recording now, right, nancy? Yes, thanks, nancy.

Chip Thomas:

This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. No-transcript.