Ohio Yearly Meeting's Podcast
So, if thee is interested in learning the differences between Conservative Quakers and other Quakers, or would like to understand differences between Quakers and other Christians, thee may well be at the right place. On the other hand, the Conservative Quaker perspective is so strikingly unique in contemporary society, that it will be a balm to many seeking spiritual fulfillment. To assist these seekers is the true intent of publishing our podcast.
A good many of the podcast installments will be presented by Henry Jason. Henry is knowledgeable in the Greek of the New Testament and has a fascinating way of tying the meaning of the original words with the writings of early Friends. Listening to him provides a refreshing view of scripture and is an excellent way to learn about original Quaker theology. Henry's podcasts are usually bible classes and so they are often interspersed with discussions, questions and insightful comments by his students.
The music in our podcasts is from Paulette Meier's CDs: Timeless Quaker Wisdom in Plainsong and Wellsprings of Life available at paulettemeier.com.
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Ohio Yearly Meeting's Podcast
Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #14
John 7:53 - 8:20
This Greek Bible study examines the powerful story of the woman caught in adultery and Jesus's transformative teaching about judgment, sin, and spiritual illumination.
• Exploration of John 7:53-8:20, including the authenticity questions surrounding this passage in early manuscripts
• Discussion of Jesus writing in the sand—one of the few references to his literacy in the Gospels
• Analysis of Jesus's challenge to the woman's accusers about their own sinfulness
• Context of how Jesus transforms understanding of sin from external rules to inward reflection
• Examination of the Greek word "hamartia" (sin) and its theological implications
• Jesus's declaration "I am the light of the world" and its connection to Quaker understanding of inner light
• References to 2 Corinthians 4:6-7 about God shining in our hearts
• Discussion of biblical support for Quaker beliefs and recommended resources for further study
A complete list of our podcasts, organized into topics, is available on our website.
To learn more about Ohio Yearly Meeting (Conservative) of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), please visit ohioyearlymeeting.org.
Those interested in exploring the distinctives of Conservative Friends waiting worship should consider checking out our many Zoom Online Worship opportunities during the week here. All are welcome!
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Advices read in these podcasts can be found on page 29 in our Book Of Dicipline.
We welcome feedback on this and any of our other podcast episodes. Contact us through our website.
Advice number three Regard the taking of oaths as contrary to the teachings of Christ and setting up a double standard of truthfulness, whereas sincerity and truth should be practiced in all walks of life. From Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline.
Speaker 2:This is the OIM Greek Bible study. We are reading the gospel according to Luke I'm sorry, john, and we left off last week of chapter 7, verse 53. This is about the story about the woman caught in adultery. Then each of them went home while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery In making her stand before all of them. They said to him teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now, in the law, moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? They said this to test him so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her. And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her Woman where are they? Has no one condemned you? She said no one, sir. And Jesus said Neither do I condemn you. Go your way and from now on, do not sin again.
Speaker 2:This is a very interesting passage for a number of reasons. First reason is that it doesn't occur in many of the earliest Greek manuscripts. It is just not there. And where it does occur in Greek manuscripts, it occurs in various places. It occurs elsewhere in John, just before here, as well as sometimes at the very end of the Gospel, like in addition, and it also occurs in the gospel according to Luke in some manuscripts. So the question is what's going on here?
Speaker 2:There have been a lot of hypotheses about why this was here, why it's in different places, and I don't want to go into so much of that. Although some of it's interesting, it appears to be a true story. The way it's written and the biblical scholars say that the language used, the kinds of expressions and words, appears to be more like something you'd find in Luke and, as I said, in a few manuscripts it occurs there. Others think that this perhaps is from another gospel that no longer exists, which is the gospel to the Hebrews. So it's kind of a very interesting thing that we have here. As to how did it ever get into this gospel if it doesn't belong here, and why was it put here here? And why was it put here? There's a lot of speculation. It appears to be a true story. There are variations in the different Greek manuscripts as to the wording as well, and I might say something about that in a minute here, but I think right now what I'll do is just go into looking at the language here.
Speaker 2:It says in verse three, the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and, making her stand before all of them, they said to him you know? And then they say that in the law, moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? Well, the woman was caught. What happened to the man If he also were caught? My understanding is that he too would have had to be stoned, so the assumption is that he ran away or something. Again, this is all speculation. I don't know where to go for this. I have a vague memory that if they saw her being caught in adultery, they too would be guilty of the adultery if they didn't stop it. So that's also interesting comment, but I don't know where to find wherever I learned that from. So just another comment here on this interesting situation.
Speaker 3:In this passage it doesn't actually sound as if they're just about to stone her. Does it seem more likely in other passages? I mean the way it describes it sounds as if they're just about to stone her. Does it seem more likely in other passages? I mean the way it describes it sounds as if they're trying to trap Jesus, rather than that they're actually trying to about to stone her.
Speaker 2:Well, that brings up other issues. Yes, that's the number one thing to get Jesus on some count that they can hold against him some charge.
Speaker 4:I'm interested in a Greek word that appears to be a common root. I'm looking at the word translated as sin in verse 7 and verse 11. The first one is without sin, anamartetos, and then in 11, hamartano. What can we know about that particular root? What's the flavor of the word for sin?
Speaker 2:in seven. That's one, that's a different word. That's without sin, without sin right, it's an adjective right. The a makes a negative the a n makes it a negative, not right particular word. I'm going to just look at that up in the dictionary to make sure that.
Speaker 5:Henry, may I just read something while you're doing that?
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 5:Okay. So, talking about what you previously mentioned, I have an article here. It says whenever someone was caught in adultery, as you said, both the man and woman would be brought to the temple gates and accused if witnesses could be gathered to confirm that adultery had indeed been committed. However, in this instance, they only brought the woman. This was a violation of the oral law of god. Secondly, the priest was required to then stoop down and write the law that had been broken, along with the names of the accused, in the dust of the floor of the temple. The priest could write the law and the names anywhere, as long as the marks were not permanent. By doing this, jesus showed these accusers that they were not keeping the law, but he would anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean again, my assumption is that perhaps he ran away. He got away. Yeah, I don't think it would have mattered. Uh, they wanted to get jesus, as karen was mentioning. That was the primary thing I think here. Okay in this.
Speaker 2:All right, this is uh this is probably the most common word for sin. Okay, hamar, now, this is a very frequent word here for sin Hamartia. Okay, on the page. Okay, this is the noun. The other one above was an adjective and basically a departure from either human or divine standards of uprightness, sin, a state of being sinful, sinfulness or, as I often will translate it as sinning, and it's also a destructive evil, power, sin. So sin, sinfulness, sinning are the usual meanings of this word.
Speaker 5:Yes, and the New English translates that first word as faultless meanings of this word, as I am the New English, translates that first word as faultless.
Speaker 2:Faultless Okay, it's not the word for faultless, which I don't recall at the moment, but I could see why they would do that. Okay, getting back to the text, jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. I think this is perhaps the only place in the New Testament that indicates that Jesus could read and write. If anyone's ever thought of that. Read and write if anyone's ever thought of that, it's interesting. In some texts there are comments that what he may have been writing down were some of the grievous sins of the Pharisees and scribes who wanted to get a charge against him. Doesn't he read in the temple.
Speaker 2:Yes, he reads, that's right. I'm sorry, this is, I think, the only place where we have he wrote something. Yeah, wrote down something. Yes, that's right, he was reading, I think. What was it? Isaiah, in the synagogue in Galilee. It said they brought him to scroll and he read from it. Yes, right, I think this is the only place where we have him writing. You know, in the 1600s, when you had the first Quakers come on the scene at that time, what you learned in school as a young child, if you were able to go to school, was you first learned to read. Later you would learn how to write. You didn't learn them both as we do at the same time. Learn them both as we do at the same time. So I don't know how it was here in the synagogues and in the temple as to how students, men, would learn how to read and write. But anyway, just a little comment, extra comment here.
Speaker 3:As far as the woman herself goes, would the early friends have seen this as being in parallel with Christ within us? She was standing there, no one had condemned her, but the early friends felt that if we're told what we have done wrong and we ignore that, then that works to our condemnation. So this was an external instance of what happened to us internally.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting thought. Basically, Jesus has saved this woman's life. Think of that. He has saved her physical life. They were going to stone her, kill her, execute her for her sin, but at the very end he says he doesn't condemn her. Go your way, Do not sin again. Don't sin again. This is it. Have you learned your lesson? It's a pretty strong uh. Let me see how it's said in the greek and and again.
Speaker 2:The early friends might say that if you ignore this, it works to your condemnation okay, and from now now, from now on, sin no longer basically the greek, I don't condemn you and go say katakrino. And that katakri I saw. I showed you the verb krino last week. Katakrino is, I think, only negative meaning condemn, not just judge but condemn, and that's a verb. Last week I showed you the, the formino judge. So he is not condemning her to death. Condemning in this sense is to catecrino, pass judgment, like a judge passes a judgment saying you're getting a death penalty.
Speaker 4:Henry, I'm curious why the word catecrino is repeated. What's the grammatical construction there? Ude catecrino, ego catacrino? Is that how you say? Neither, where are you Verse 11.?
Speaker 2:Verse 11. Okay, she said no one Lord. She's just saying no one Lord, no one sir, no one sir. Remember the word for sir is the same word for Lord.
Speaker 4:Kurios, kurios. The next sentence then.
Speaker 2:Neither do I condemn you. I'm not clear what that question is.
Speaker 4:I just wonder, how they do that construction. Ude katakrino, ego katakrino In verse 10,.
Speaker 2:There's a question has no one condemned you to death? And then she says no one, sir. And Jesus said neither do I, I don't either condemn you to death, neither do I or I don't either condemn you to death. Go from now on no longer a sin, sin, no more and sin no longer.
Speaker 4:The meaning comes through. But I'm just interested in the peculiarity of the construction when, in both cases, it doubles.
Speaker 2:It uses the word kathakrino twice. It uses the word cataclysm twice. I don't see any real problem with that. Okay, I think Jesus was again very sharp in asking that question. You know, let anyone, let him who is without sin, be the one to be the first one to cast a stone at her. The height of arrogance to say I'm without sin. Be the one to be the first one to cast a stone at her.
Speaker 7:The height of arrogance to say I'm without sin I think it also changes the focus of what is wrongdoing from being a rule to being a self-reflection. The men are making it a hard and fast rule that this is something that moses told them they needed to do was, but jesus turns that, that hard and fast rule, into a, an inward introspection about whether they are with sin or without sin. It changes the idea of what sin is from being rules of moses to being a more conscience-based yes, actually.
Speaker 2:Uh, pat's reminding me of matthew, chapter 5, verse 27, where jesus says you have heard that it was said you shall not commit adultery, but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. That inward sexual craving for this woman is already the sin, and it's just another sin to then go on beyond that. I think that's what he's referring to, pat yes, yeah, yeah, that he's.
Speaker 7:They're having a very limited idea of just the the act, but he's making it more of what is the inward condition of the heart.
Speaker 2:That's what the issue is yes, yes, okay, good, all right. In verse 10, my translation says here jesus straightened up and said to her a woman, where are they? Again? This word for a woman is also a polite term of address to a woman. In greek it means ma'am, madam, something like that. He's being polite, you know, like when you have j Jesus talking to his mother in several places and calling her a woman. He wouldn't have done that, just like we I've never called my mother woman. I mean, it's just not the way you address someone. It's not polite, especially for the respect that a Jewish child was supposed to pay to his parents. So a Jewish child was supposed to pay to his parents. So I'm just giving the, you know showing a bad translation into English from the Greek. All right, let's go on to the next section, starting with verse 12.
Speaker 2:Again, jesus spoke to them, saying I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. Then the Pharisees said to him you are testifying on your own behalf. Your testimony is not valid. Jesus answered even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid because I know where I have come from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards. I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is valid, for it is not I alone who judged, but I and the Father who sent me.
Speaker 2:In your law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is valid. I testify on my own behalf, and the Father who sent me testifies on my behalf. Then they said to him when is your father? Jesus answered you know neither me nor my father. If you knew me, you would know my father also. He spoke these words while he was teaching in the treasury of the temple, but no one arrested him because his hour had not yet come. I am the light of the world. The word for light in Greek is phos, that's the word for light. The plural form would be this, and we get our english word photo from that, like a photograph, photography, photosynthesis well.
Speaker 4:This simply reminds me of how central was the metaphor of light in friends writings and how helpful it's been to me to see what they say about the interplay between light and darkness and that we are not to spend attention on the darkness but on the light that overcomes it. So I'm awfully glad that the testimony is so straightforward that it identifies it with Jesus and his teaching and his presence. It's not some neutral, speculative philosophical construct.
Speaker 2:I'm forgetting. I'm looking for a passage in Romans and I'm forgetting the verse. It's where Paul says the God who said let light shine out, has shown in our hearts. Does anyone recall where that verse is?
Speaker 7:Am thinking Romans, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's 2nd Corinthians, for God who commanded the light to shine out of darkness hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. It's chapter 4, verse 6.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I was looking at Romans 4. Okay, let me translate that into modern English and then I'll amplify it as well what my Revised Standard Version here says. But Pat was reading the King James Version. For it is the God who said let light shine out of darkness, who is shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, in verse 7,. But we have this treasure in clay jars. So that it be made clear that this extraordinary power belongs to God. It does not come from us.
Speaker 2:Now I'd like to look at the Greek and just give you a more modern translation. I think we'll make that a bit clearer. Remind us, remind us of the citation again, please. It's 2 Corinthians 4, verses 6 and 7.
Speaker 2:Thanks, because the God who said light will shine out of darkness is the one who has shown in our hearts, in our consciousness, in our consciences, for the illumination, or an illumination of the experience of the manifested presence of god in the person jesus, the anointed one.
Speaker 2:Now we have this treasure in clay or earthen vessels, and it is such that the excellence of this power should be from God, is from God and not from us. I'll read that again, I'll translate it again, because it's the God who said, speaking, let there be light. Light will shine out of darkness as the one who has shown in our hearts, in our consciences, in our consciousnesses, for an illumination of the experience of the manifested presence, the Shekinah of God in the person, jesus, the Anointed One. Now we have this treasure in earthen vessels, in clay vessels, and it is such that the excellence of this power should be of God and not from us. What we're talking here about is the divinity in Jesus. That manifested presence of God in Jesus is what was revealed. That's the illumination, that's the light. I'm emphasizing that, those two verses, because they are very important, but you might lose something if you're not aware of the more detailed understanding of those words. Any comments on that?
Speaker 7:He's also talking about it shining in our hearts.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's the Christ within, that's the illumination, the light, the light of Christ, that inward light of Christ, that's the revelation, that's the illumination of the experience. As I mentioned, I think, in Galatians, in chapter four, paul is having labor pains, like a woman giving birth, having labor pains, trying to have this inward Christ come into awareness in his congregation there among the Galatians. Okay, let's go on back to John. Jesus is talking outwardly here, but he's also talking inwardly at the same time. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life. Whoever follows me like a soldier follows a general, will never walk in darkness, darkness, but will have the illumination of eternal life in him. Let me check here verse 15.
Speaker 2:My translation is you judge by human standards. The greek says according to the flesh, you judge, you make your assessments sort of outwardly. You're paying attention to the cover of the book rather than what the contents inside the book. This expression happens over and over again. Sarx is the word for flesh, general meaning, but it has a number of other meanings as well. This is the expression katasarka according to the flesh, or in a worldly manner. Outwardly, you're not looking inwardly at all. The kata is a preposition in greek and all the four gospels have it in it in the titles the gospel according to john, according to Mark, according to Luke and according to Matthew. Actually, the way you would probably translate that in older English in Fox's time would have been with the word after after the flesh, according to the flesh. Of course, in Jewish society you needed at least two witnesses, and that's why Jesus is commenting that God is the other witness along with him. It isn't just Jesus that is testifying.
Speaker 7:I noticed in verse 14 that it is the same language that was used back in chapter 3 when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus. In verse 8, he says but canst not tell whence it cometh and whither it goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit. And in 14, he says For I know whence I came and whither I go, but you cannot tell whence I came and whither I go.
Speaker 2:But you cannot tell whence I came and whither I go, yeah, talking about the spirit, the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The Hebrew for that is Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit. More often in the Old Testament they speak of the spirit of God, but there is also used the expression the Holy Spirit at times. I think that's clearly what's being said here that holy wind, that holy breath, that holy, invisible current of god, something that flows. Remember I've mentioned that there are several words that are used for spirit. Most often this word that means breath or wind. They're in movement, they flow.
Speaker 7:Friends use the word influence, meaning the flowing in or inflowing I would think, once I come, might refer to the source, his source, god, and whither I go, might refer to his purpose. What is his intent? I mean he's not talking about spatial movement there let me look at the great things okay, what was that verse? Chapter three it's verse eight, and in chapter eight it's verse 14 14.
Speaker 2:Okay, 14. 14. Okay, oida, pothen. Pothen is from where we're from, pothen, because I know where I have come from and Pou where, where? To Kupago, where I am going to. I wonder also if that just might mean that he's returning to the Father. This word POU means we're at two, and in chapter three of John that was verse eight, I think.
Speaker 7:Yes.
Speaker 2:Let me just check what's there. Okay, Pothen is the same and the other one is Hapu, similar to Pou, is the same. The other one is hapu, similar to pu. The wind, the spirit to where it wishes. It blows, the spirit flows where it wants to. Okay, so that's the same thing. Where this is just, I think what do you call it? A relative pronoun form of it. Pu is also, but that's an interrogative form. So it's basically Poo and Hapu are similar. All right, Any other questions or comments?
Speaker 2:The word for treasury in Greek is thesaurus. Gives us our English word thesaurus. One thing I forgot to say remember that basically the Romans were in charge and they held the final right to execute anyone. But it's not clear in these kinds of vigilante types of things, where someone like Stephen in Acts was stoned to death while Paul was helping the stoners, and here, where this is a religious kind of thing, whether or not they were allowed to do this or it just kind of happened and the Roman authorities weren't going to pay much attention to it, because it's a religious thing that I just don't know. Henry, I have a question.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Josephus was a historian. Is that correct? Yes, he was Jewish. Wrote in Greek. And was there another one parallel to him? Another what. Another one parallel to Josephus. Another historian. Yes.
Speaker 2:He was a Jew and he wrote about the Jewish wars. I think you're thinking of Tacitus. Tacitus was a Roman, a Latin writer at the same time, and he actually has a comment about Jesus being crucified and that I think was in conjunction with when Nero started the fire and burnt down a huge section of Rome. He blamed these new people who were there, these people that were called Christians, for the fire. So that was Tacitus, and Josephus was the Jewish historian. Is that what you wanted to know, bernice? Yes, thank thee. I can remember translating that passage in Latin, I think in my first year of college. It's been a while. Okay, I think we'll end there. I'm sorry about all the confusion. I hope this doesn't happen again. I don't know what's going on with Zoom and me, but hopefully it'll be cleared up by the next series on Thursday, fifth day. Okay, well, thanks everybody.
Speaker 8:I have one more question.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, hope and then Ernest.
Speaker 8:It's not exactly about this particular scripture, but I'm interested in scriptures. But I'm interested in Quaker scriptures and I've been trying to look into it a bit. What particular scriptures are used for what particular Quaker beliefs? Do you know about that?
Speaker 2:There are a lot of early Quaker writings where they quite frequently hundreds, thousands of times are using biblical citations and explaining them in such a way. That is why I have become an Amor Quaker, let's put it that way. I think they really understood something about interpreting and having a true understanding of what is really being said there in the New and Old Testament. I have a huge collection of commentaries on the Bible, and people are all over the place and understanding things and they disagree with each other, and it just goes on and on, but overall, I've never found anything like early and traditional Quaker writings and how they understand the Bible and interpret it, and their lives are led in such a way that I think that is how God wants them to lead their lives.
Speaker 2:If you want a specific work, let me just comment, though, that there was an early Quaker writer. His name was Robert Barclay. Though that there was an early quaker writer, his name was robert barkley, he wrote something called a catechism and then also a confession of faith. He asks various questions in the catechism and, like most catechisms, he gives an answer, and in the confession of faith, he has 23 articles where he asks a question, and in both cases, both the catechism and in the confession of faith, he answers them solely with verses from the bible. To show for those other christians that quaker faith is truly based on the bible.
Speaker 3:It's not something just made out of thin air henry, do you think that hope might like that book of discipline that you gave me early on? I think was from 1972 or something like that and it contains a lot of different quotations from quakers from many different periods oh, I know the one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that the blue book? Yeah that's called the blue book. That's from 52 okay, that's london yearly meeting. Uh, faith, and I forget what it's called, but uh, that would have more um.
Speaker 3:I mean the catechism, and faith has the doctrine, but those quotations version. Yeah, it's a bit harder if you're not familiar with that language but, but, but also the the book of discipline has the sort of the spirit um that some of those quotations are ones that sort of speak to people often.
Speaker 2:There's so many books I can recommend, but I'm just trying. I have to think about what might be best for first, but that's a possibility.
Speaker 5:How about Jack and Susan's book? You know Traditional.
Speaker 2:Wake of.
Speaker 5:Christianity.
Speaker 2:You're looking more for the Bible, the biblical verses that are in support of our beliefs. Is that my understanding?
Speaker 8:Yes, I think that would be good. I did find some online, but it was just what the particular person was his favorite verses and I thought that was really nice of him. Really, I did. I was hoping to like find more.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just thought of something I'm hopefully in the next couple of months. At some point I'm going to be starting another series where we're reading William Shewan's the True Christian's Faith and Experience, and there are just dozens and dozens of citations there from the Bible in support of early and traditional Quaker understanding. That might be something, a book, that I would recommend too, and that's one of the reasons why I want to do that particular book. David had a question. David Fink.
Speaker 4:It's a comment that's somewhat incomplete. There's a group based in central Michigan, part of Lake Erie, yearly meeting Red Cedar meeting that has convened a Bible study based on a book by Michael Burkow, who's on the Erlend School of Religion faculty and I've just started. I can't characterize it too much, but the theme of it is how early friends used the Bible and how their writings were completely infused with biblical references, which were presumed. But he breaks it down. I'm looking forward to reading more of it and I don't know if others are familiar with Burkle's writing. What's the name of the book? That's what I'm not remembering just right now. Oh, okay okay, Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, we're way over time tonight, so thanks everybody.
Speaker 8:Thank you, I really thank you.
Speaker 1:This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. Edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website, ohioyearlymeetingorg.