Ohio Yearly Meeting's Podcast
So, if thee is interested in learning the differences between Conservative Quakers and other Quakers, or would like to understand differences between Quakers and other Christians, thee may well be at the right place. On the other hand, the Conservative Quaker perspective is so strikingly unique in contemporary society, that it will be a balm to many seeking spiritual fulfillment. To assist these seekers is the true intent of publishing our podcast.
A good many of the podcast installments will be presented by Henry Jason. Henry is knowledgeable in the Greek of the New Testament and has a fascinating way of tying the meaning of the original words with the writings of early Friends. Listening to him provides a refreshing view of scripture and is an excellent way to learn about original Quaker theology. Henry's podcasts are usually bible classes and so they are often interspersed with discussions, questions and insightful comments by his students.
The music in our podcasts is from Paulette Meier's CDs: Timeless Quaker Wisdom in Plainsong and Wellsprings of Life available at paulettemeier.com.
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Ohio Yearly Meeting's Podcast
Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #15
John 8:21-59
We continue our study of John's Gospel, focusing on chapter 8 where Jesus reveals himself as "the light of the world" and offers profound insights about spiritual freedom and his divine nature.
• Examining the challenging declaration "I am the light of the world" and how it connects thematically to chapter 9
• Understanding Jesus' confrontation with religious leaders who misunderstood his spiritual origin
• Exploring the liberating concept that "you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free"
• Analyzing how sin enslaves and Christ liberates, connecting to the Greek concepts of redemption and salvation
• Contemplating Jesus' climactic claim "Before Abraham was, I AM" and its implications for understanding Christ's eternal nature
• Recognizing the importance of experiencing the inward, transformative power of Christ rather than focusing solely on historical accounts
Join us next time as we continue our journey through the Gospel of John.
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Advices read in these podcasts can be found on page 29 in our Book Of Dicipline.
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Advice number four In your meetings for worship, be earnestly concerned to enter reverently into communion with God. Come with minds and hearts prepared. Yield yourselves up to the influence of the Divine Presence so that you may find the evil in you weakening and the good raised up. God calls each one to the service of the meeting. Be obedient and faithful, whether by word or silent, prayerful waiting, and be ready to receive the message of others in a tender spirit. From Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline.
Speaker 2:This is the OIM Greek Bible study. This is session number 15 of the gospel according to John. We left off at chapter 8, verse 20. I just wanted to mention a couple of things again going back over what we did last week in terms of that pericope, that story about the woman caught in adultery. I had mentioned that this interesting story does not occur in some of the earliest manuscripts we have and it's just lacking In some other manuscripts. The verses that begin with chapter 7, verse 53 through chapter 8, verse 11 occur after chapter 7, 36 or at the end, after chapter 21, 25, or it may even occur in the gospel according to Luke after chapter 21, verse 38. So it's really a very interesting puzzle as to why it's in different places and how it got there and and why.
Speaker 3:Any questions, any comments further from last week on what we were reading last week I'd like to say that, with that first story taken away from chapter 8, the actual chapter then would begin at verse 12, which says I am the light of the world. He that followeth me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life. And what I'd like to point out is that that verse is very similar to what is at near the beginning of chapter 9, where he says I must work the works of him that sent me. While it is day, the night cometh when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world, and that occurred to me a number of years ago, that those two verses indicate that chapters 8 and 9 have some bearing upon one another. I wrote about what I thought was the connection between the two chapters in an essay that I titled John 8 and 9, a Lesson for Prophetic Ministers.
Speaker 2:So that essay- can be found on my website okay, great, I think I would agree with you. But there's an interesting thing here that one must remember that for hundreds and hundreds of years there were no chapter or verse numbers in the bible. They only were put in just a few hundred years ago, which which is a great benefit, a boon for us to find things, because it would have been a bit harder to find a specific verse if you were looking for it.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that what follows each of those verses is related one to the other.
Speaker 2:It's not necessarily because they're at the beginning of chapters, but that there's a connection between the two writings any other comments or questions, though, before I do that, okay, I'm going to start reading verse 21 in chapter 8. Okay again, he said to them. Jesus said to them I am going away and you will search for me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come. Then the Jew said is he going to kill himself? Is that what he means by saying where I am going, you cannot come? He said to them you are from below, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he. They said to him who are you? Jesus said to them why do I speak to you at all? I have much to say about you and much to condemn, but the one who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him. They did not understand that he was speaking to them about the Father. So Jesus said when you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will realize that I am he and I do nothing on my own, but I speak these things as the Father instructed me, and the one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him.
Speaker 2:As he was saying these things, many believed in him. Again, if we come to this word Jews in verse 22, again, that is that other alternate meaning of those jewish leaders and their adherents who did not accept jesus as messiah and were just in total opposition to him. And what I understand in this selection here is that this is truly the spirit of the messiah in jesus, speaking in terms of you are from below, I, I am from above, and in one sense, for me, this is a model given us as how we should be in relationship to the Spirit of Christ within us, in obedience, as Jesus was In verse 28, when you have lifted up the Son of man, that appears to be a reference to crucifixion. And again in verse 30,. As he was saying these things, many believed in him.
Speaker 4:And as.
Speaker 2:I've said many times, the word believe here the Greek word most often has the sense of trust, to put one's trust in, to have confidence in, put one's confidence in. That's the sense I understand here. As he was saying these things, many put their trust in him. They actually had that feeling that, yes, there's something seriously spiritual in Jesus.
Speaker 6:In verse 21,. I'd like you to expand on this phrase. To die in their sins. What do you take that to mean? You?
Speaker 2:look at thereek. Yeah, and beyond that, and beyond that, okay, oh, okay, well, and you will die in sin. Basically it's a singular here in the greek in your sinfulness, in your sinning I gather there must have been some vagueness about Jesus saying he's going away, that they didn't quite understand what that meant and that they were not able to follow him there. Go there with him.
Speaker 6:What would be the opposite of dying in their sins? Is he implicitly calling for a specific sort of conversion? Is he offering forgiveness? A little bewildered still.
Speaker 2:I'm not too clear myself here, just let me see. Therefore, he said again to them I am going away, I am leaving, I'm going, I'm going and you will seek me, you will look for me and you will die in your sin, in your sinfulness and your sinning. Where I go, where I am going, you are not able to go or come, come or go. So therefore, the Jews, these opposers of Jesus, were saying he will not kill himself. Is he going to kill himself Because he says where I am going, you are not able to go or to come?
Speaker 2:I might think that in verse 23, he's explaining this in a more spiritual sense. In terms of going, they might be thinking physically, physical place, location. If you're saying you are from the things below, I am from things above, you are from this world, I am, I am not from this, I am not of this world. Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins, and this is plural, for if you do not put your trust or do not have confidence that I am he, you will die in your sins, plural, plural. Yeah, I don't know if I can say any more about that. Shall we go on?
Speaker 4:I have a quick question, henry, sure you know it's sort of interesting. Uh, and it seems you are from below in verse 23, I am from above. I wonder, in the greek or in the hebrew does any, do you or anyone else know? Is that just sort of the same meaning as us like above, better heaven, sort of stuff, or is there any particular Greek or Jewish meaning to sort of being above and below?
Speaker 2:My understanding is that in the Jewish sense let me try to remember this the lower you go, that's where the demons are, that's where Satan is, that's where the devils are the higher up you go, you're getting closer to angelic levels and finally, God. It's that kind of understanding of this up and down or above and below, and I know that's the Jewish sense, like I think demons are supposed to be down by the ground, or that's where they usually are, or out in desolate places like deserts and wildernesses and things like that.
Speaker 1:So that is a Jewish sense Would it be partly, maybe, framed from the concept of the Greek cosmos which I think was the old.
Speaker 2:You know where they had the shield below and you know the different levels. Yes, the Greeks actually already at this time, saw the world, but the planet Earth as a round sphere. They knew that. Not that every Greek knew that, but that was already known by them. But my understanding is that the Jews still believed in kind of a flat Earth kind of creation, rather than the globe. We know the ancient Greeks are already aware of that fact, but I don't think your average Jew at this time would have known that jew at this time would have known that.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's go on verse 31. Then jesus said to the jews who had believed in him if you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will make you free. They answered him. We are descendants, descendants of Abraham, and have never been slaves to anyone. What do you mean by saying you will be made free? This is kind of an ironic statement that they're saying they've never been slaves of anyone. They've kind of forgotten about their slavery in Egypt and Babylon and everywhere else. So what can you say?
Speaker 2:But again, when Jesus is speaking not necessarily here, but I think this is also true here is being freed from sinning. If you're following the living spirit of Christ within you, then you are obeying him and you are then eventually becoming freed or liberated from that inclination to sin, are liberated from that inclination to sin. What we translate as the word redemption should perhaps give everyone a better understanding if you understand redemption as liberation and that Jesus Christ as Redeemer is Jesus Christ as Liberator, and the verb redeem is to liberate, make free. Literally it also means to buy back and and this is the sense of at this time in slavery and in the roman empire, if you found the money from relatives or whatever, you could buy back your freedom. So you would become liberated, and jesus is the redeemer, the liberator. So it's very useful to think of these words redemption, redeem and Redeemer as liberator, to liberate, to make free, liberation, liberator and to liberate.
Speaker 2:I'm blanking out at the moment on those words in Greek, but let me just. Maybe my mind will come back in a minute. Apolutrosis I think it is Apolutro. Let me just check this word. I think this is the word for redemption. Oh yeah, here's the verb apoluo, apolutrosis. Okay, so that's redemption. Apoluo is the verb.
Speaker 2:And redeemer what's redeemer um, although it is a special kind of liberation, since, yeah, because it basically means to redeem, to buy back. That's the sense of the meaning, but in the special sense that we're talking about, and we're talking about what christ does you'll also see the english word ransom, and that's in the same sense here paying back. While I'm doing this, I should give another word to savior and salvation. The word save in greek is sozo, one of the forms here. Anyway, this one I'll give here is to save. It also has the sense of to heal, to save one from some disease, and the savior is Soter and again, in the special sense, you can understand it as healer. And then the other noun, the abstract noun, soteria, is salvation, a healing. Now, this sense of save is a sense of like to rescue, and of course Jesus is the Savior, he heals us.
Speaker 2:And salvation so often in the New Testament and Friends also emphasizes too it really means to be saved or healed from sinning. That is an important meaning of the sense and that occurs in various places. If you look at this word salvation, it's related to the English word salve S-A-L-V-E and it's related to the Spanish word salud, which means health. So there is this sense of healing, but also being rescued from something, and I've been aware of this for many years and it gives me a special understanding of what we are saying. When Jesus is Savior, it's to be saved from something. Unfortunately, you find so often today among many Christian denominations talking about salvation only in terms of being saved to go to heaven or something of that sense. But that's not the basic sense of this. You're saved or you're rescued from something and you're healed of something, rather than being healed or saved for something. That's not the sense that this word has or these three words have Any comments?
Speaker 6:Henry, I do have a comment on verse 31, and I'm starting from reading my version of the Greek, from reading my version of the Greek meno en ho emos logos. Two of the English versions I see make it sound like obeying the teachings. Wait, what verse is this? 31? 31.
Speaker 2:Say again the Greek that you were trying to get translated.
Speaker 6:Haimese oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I see it now Okay, okay. Okay, an koumeis mene te. Right, if you plural remain in my word, if you continue in my words, truly, you are my students.
Speaker 6:Yeah. So let me share three different English versions, or maybe four. Two of them seem to have to do with following teaching and the other two are richer. The Good Speed says if you abide by what I teach, you are really disciples of mine. The Good News today's English version renders it if you obey my teaching, you are really my disciples. The Interlinear that Mounts gives says if you continue in my word, the New English Bible, in which Quakers in England actually had a part in the translation committee, gives a rendering that speaks better to me and says If you dwell within the revelation I have brought, you are indeed my disciples. So I think that that takes it beyond saying just do what I say, but it has to do with a state of being, where and with whom we dwell. It goes to more than just following the words I think that might be stretching it from the greek.
Speaker 2:I mean if you think of the verb as what was the very first one, if you abide, or if it means if you continue.
Speaker 6:If you think of the verb, as what was the very first one if you abide, or it means if you continue if you stay, if you remain, if you continue.
Speaker 2:What the issue is? How do you translate this word logos here? Which has so many words, I mean, if you continue in my Teachings is one of them.
Speaker 2:Logos, as I've said many times, can refer to anything that's spoken, any verbalization, everything Jesus has said is what we mean by this. If you're listening and you're in obedience to them, I mean that's what I would understand. If you're following them, yeah, so then you are truly my disciples, you are truly my students. Then you are truly my disciples, you are truly my students. If you really are listening and paying attention and following and you know you're, you're remaining, you're staying, you're in that mindset and you're agreeing, of course, I am drawn to that verb of what happens, which is then that you dwell within what I brought you.
Speaker 6:It has to do more with a state of being rather than a literal following of commandments yes, I mean yes, yes, that's what's being said.
Speaker 2:I mean, when you get this verb, which is meno right this occurs dozens of times in the gospel according to john and in the epistles david, could you repeat the english rendering that you prefer?
Speaker 4:I don't. I remember part of it.
Speaker 6:New english bible 1961. Collection of british denominations collaborating. The way they render this if you dwell within the revelation I have brought you are indeed my disciples. They take minnow as to dwell within rather than just obeying.
Speaker 2:But they're amplifying it in a way that I don't disagree with. That's what they're supposed to do, but I'm not sure it's said here in this actual sentence. That's what I'm saying. This verb just occurs again and again and it really means abide. You know, continue in that state. You are in the same frame of mind.
Speaker 4:So that's the abiding or the, the continuation it seems like we've come back to the the challenge of the first verse of the whole book. Right in the beginning was the word yes, what did the?
Speaker 4:word mean, and I don't know if you remember, but my preferred translation is logic, which is kind of a way of being. So if they stuck with something like that, no one says do you persist in the logic, unless you're like Spock on Star Trek or something, but it sounds like the, the way you render. That would be something like dwell in the revelation that I've revealed.
Speaker 2:I would say they're maybe going for that there are dozens and dozens of ways this word, logos, can be translated and the adjective is logikos, which gives us our English word logic. But as I've said in the past, logos has two general spheres of meaning. One meaning is anything that is spoken, whether it's a word, a phrase, a sentence, a paragraph, a whole story, everything you say. It's anything verbally, outwardly expressed. That's the general meaning. So that's why it can be translated in many ways. The other area sphere of meaning has to do with the power of reasoning, human ability to reason, to think, and and this is in a spiritual sense this is the wisdom of god. In a jewish sense, that would be the translation if we were using the old testament. We would probably talk about the wisdom of god, and logikos is just the adjective for the same word. Again, I'll just mention this too. These two words are related to the Greek word lego, which just means speak, say. Logos can mean account, you know, give an account of something. It's so broad. If you know, in my dictionary here, this dictionary, new Testament and early Christian literature, if I just pull that out, there are two tall columns of meanings for that on that page and it goes on for the next two columns and then it's just one of those words that really is a challenge to translate. Okay, let's continue.
Speaker 2:We left off at verse 30. 34. Okay, 34. Jesus answered them very truly. I tell you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not have a permanent place in the household. The son has a place there forever. So if the son makes you free, you will be free indeed. Again, we're talking here about Redeemer, redemption to redeem and being slaves to sin. We can kind of think of that, I believe, in modern terms, as addiction to sinning in maybe various forms.
Speaker 3:I think it has something to do with justification. I think that sitting is an attempt to justify one's life, either through many different ways, maybe through accomplishment or through pleasure, or ways of convincing yourself that your life is worthwhile or justifying your life. Your life is worthwhile or justifying your life, and anytime that a person tries to justify his own life, he's going to be turning his back on God, because it's not. We can't justify our own lives. The justification of our life is in coming into the knowledge of God, and that's what makes our life just and worthwhile. So when we know Christ, then we are freed from that impulsion to justify our lives ourselves, in and of ourselves. And that's what frees us, because suddenly we are given this gift of justified life in Christ. It lifts the burden from us that we cannot sustain and we cannot accomplish. We cannot justify our own lives, even though we try, by many different things.
Speaker 2:Jesus is called the righteous one, which means the just one. Likewise, god, the Father, is the righteous one, the just one too, I think. Also we spend so much time trying to justify why we sin, to err as human and all these other things we try to wiggle out of, why we are doing what we shouldn't be doing. At the same time, it's sin is somewhat understandable in terms of we wouldn't be sinning if we didn't feel we could get something out of doing that action or not doing. It seems to be some worldly benefit to sin, and so we sin. Of course, we may regret it and have remorse later, but that's part of the attraction of sinning.
Speaker 3:And when we are truly justified, that burden or that error is lifted and so we're free from it.
Speaker 2:Okay Again, as I was saying, free here in terms of those verbs and those words I just showed about redeem and redemption. Okay, 37. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free. Indeed, this is, I think, important also. I'm just thinking of another thought and that is that this is the inward understanding of the Son of God within us. Doing this inward understanding of the Son of God within us, doing this so often, you have this understanding among many perhaps more fundamentalist Christians saying you know, because Christ died on the cross, we are saved, and that leads to a whole incorrect understanding of what saves us. But it's a prevalent kind of understanding out there among so many I want to say fundamentalist, but not even fundamentalist Christians. It's just something that's been taught and it's not the traditional Quaker understanding of how we are saved with God's help, with Christ's help. We have to do our part in that.
Speaker 3:Do you think they become confused? Because it's necessary that he died on the cross and it's something that is obvious to us.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting question. Did Jesus have to die on the cross? I can say yes and no, but I'm going to say yes because he went all the way to even death on the cross obeying God the Father. If it were maybe anything less than a death, we too may not want to go any further than that If we were called to really prove our faith in some horrible way in terms of being killed, executed for our beliefs. That's more of my own personal understanding.
Speaker 6:I'm going back to verse 32, which sounds very familiar. You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free. And I think that the way that that is often invoked maybe it's carved in stones and the entrance to universities it really sounds like intellectual knowledge. And I am convinced that this goes much deeper. And Jesus is saying no, no me, I am the truth. That's his answer to Pilate. What's the truth? Well, it's standing in front of you. So I treasure that verse, but I also want to challenge those who use it almost flippantly like saying well, you've got to get more education, then you'll really be free.
Speaker 2:Let me just interrupt you, david. This verb to know here is that verb that also has the understanding, the meaning of to experience, and I think that's an important understanding here to experience truth with a capital T. That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 4:My very much related question and I can affirm the college at which I teach is its motto is this verse but truth for us has a lot of different shades of meaning as well, and I presume it does for the Greeks. So you just alluded, henry, to truth with a capital T. Does Aletheia, or however you pronounce it in Greek, have any particular connotations that are of interest? I'm interested in that too, if you know anything about that.
Speaker 2:Aletheia. Hey, let me see what the dictionary gives, if anything else. I mean, I went to a university also that its motto is veritas, which is truth in Latin. Let me just check on that. I'm suspecting something else that I'm just. I like that okay.
Speaker 2:The quality of being in accord with what is true, truthfulness, dependability, uprightness in thought, indeed okay. And the second general area meaning the content of what is true, truth and opposite, that is pseudos, a lie. And then it has various subdivisions. And the third meaning of this word oh yes, I knew this, I forgot this an actual event or state reality. Truth also means what is real. A true means also means real and truth also means reality. In greek I can't think of an example right now. You might think of both meanings at the same time. If you're reading the English, if it says truth, well, maybe also put in reality. There also, I am reality, I am what is absolutely real, the eternal divine truth or the eternal divine reality. I'm just. I'm seeing they give various examples here, but is there anything in john here? I can't find one at the moment.
Speaker 2:Verse 37 I know that you are descendants of abraham, yet you look for an opportunity to kill me because there is no place in you for my word. I declare what I have seen in the Father's presence. As for you, you should do what you have heard from the Father. Other ancient authorities read you do what you have heard from your father, the father of lies that is. And continuing with that, they answered him Abraham is our father. Jesus said to him if you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are indeed doing what your father does. They said to him we are not illegitimate children. We have one father, god himself. Jesus said to them if God were your father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me.
Speaker 2:Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot accept my word. You are from your father, the devil, and you choose to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is from God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear them is that you are not from God. I just want to check on this word hear. In the Greek, the English word hear and listen are very similar and when you say, listen to me, if you're a parent saying to a child, listen to me, you imply obviously you want them to obey you. Listen to what I'm telling you. What to do? You know that sense Seven. Yeah, it's here, okay.
Speaker 6:Same route as acoustic.
Speaker 2:Acoustic? Yes, I think so. Yes, okay, let's see if we finish this. The Jews answered him are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon? Oh, there's a racial slur. Samaritan, you're a half breed, horrible, horrible. Oh.
Speaker 2:Jesus answered I do not have a demon, but I honor my father and you dishonor me. Yet I do not seek my own glory. There is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. Very truly, I tell you whoever keeps my word will never see death. The Jews said to him Now we know that you have a demon.
Speaker 2:Abraham died, and so did the prophets. Yet you say Whoever keeps my word will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets also died. Who do you claim to be? Jesus answered if I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my father who glorifies me, he of whom you say he is our God, though you do not know him, but I know him. If I would say that I do not know him, I would be a liar, like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad. Then the Jews said to him you are not yet fifty years old and have you seen Abraham? Jesus said to them Very truly I tell you, before Abraham was I am. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Speaker 6:This is about as confrontational as I have seen. They really haven't had it with each other.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think what we have here also, as I mentioned, if you recall that selection from origin I showed a couple of times in the past is that the writers of this gospel have a later understanding, a greater, a more full of what jesus was and who he was and is. They're expanding, I think, stuff that he would have said then, and more so than may have happened, because, although the understanding is here, they're understanding him to be blaspheming, obviously, because they're going to stone him, and, and of course we're talking here about not the physical man, jesus, but the spirit of Christ is speaking here Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am Let me just see if I can translate that a little bit better Okay, jesus, okay jesus said to them amen, amen, truly, truly, I say to you, I have existed before abraham came to exist. That, of course, is the spirit of christ, which has always existed eternal, that spirit of christ that was in the ancient prophets, if you recall I pointed out in the past and probably might be good to go for some new people here too If we go to 1 Peter, chapter 1, verse 10, where Peter is talking about the ancient prophets and how they were prophesying about the sufferings of Jesus, and it says here, concerning the salvation. The prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours made careful search and inquiry, inquiring about the person or time that the spirit of Christ within them indicated when it testified in advance to the sufferings destined for Christ and the subsequent glory. The spirit of Christ that was in the ancient Jewish prophets, this is that same eternal Christ that we're talking about right here.
Speaker 2:To just refer to one other passage too, you may as well go there again too, and this is 1 Corinthians, chapter 10, and this is where Paul is talking about how the ancestors were in the desert leaving Egypt. I'll read that again. I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. Nevertheless, god was not pleased with most of them, and they were struck down in the wilderness. Now, these things occurred as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil as they did.
Speaker 2:Do not become idolaters, as some of them did. As it is written, the people sat down to eat and drink and they rose up to play. We must not indulge in sexual immorality, as some of them did. And 23,000 fell in a single day, and this is the important verse. 23,000 fell in a single day, and this is the important verse. We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did, and were destroyed by serpents. This is putting the spirit of Christ to a test, hundreds of years before the birth of Christ Jesus. No-transcript substitutions, but the best manuscripts have the word christ there, which makes sense. It's the spirit, this eternal, divine spirit, which is always there. Okay, um, okay, maybe that's it. Any any further comments about this selection here?
Speaker 6:I just find it profoundly devotional. This is something I want to come back to over and over again. It just is like it draws me to the heart of the gospel.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to remember oh, it's somewhere in the epistles of George Fox, I'm sure he says it elsewhere too Talking about how other Christians were so focused on the outward man, the history of Jesus, rather than paying attention to the mystery of Jesus, the secret, paying attention to the outward history but missing the inward salvific power there, that eternal living light, illuminator, illumination, spirit, all the words we can use as synonyms there. And that's why the focus of Friends has always been on the spiritual aspect, especially. Not that they're at all in any way denying the, as they they would say, crucifixion of jesus outside the walls of jerusalem. Of course they absolutely believed in that. Anyone could read that history about the death of jesus and not get anywhere with that. It's understanding the inward spiritual power that really matters.
Speaker 5:Henry, yeah, I guess when I was reading this if you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples and I was thinking about, I guess, later on in John, where Christ talks about if we do as he commands, we'll be his friends. When I think about that part, I think about what he's asking us to do now, in our lives now, or that's the way I sometimes think about that. So when I think about teaching, I think maybe it's also a teaching that is now and not just that's the N-word, that's where it's at that reference you were making david to.
Speaker 2:We are his friends. This is one of the probably two primary places in the gospel and in john that gives us friends the name friends. We are friends of christ if we obey and do what he tells us to. And also the other term is our friends of the truth. And again the same thing the spirit of truth is the spirit of god, the spirit of christ. Friends of truth, friends of it has other meanings, as I've explained, and even there was a very important word in early quaker thought and should be today too. Okay, a lot to think about and to pray about, to ponder on. Okay, well, thanks everyone. We'll see everyone again next week. Okay, and continue.
Speaker 3:Thanks to all, thank you.
Speaker 2:Take care. Bye-bye, thanks, good night, good night.
Speaker 1:This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website, ohioyearlymeetingorg.