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Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #16

• Ohio Yearly Meeting (Conservative)

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John 9:1-41

We walk through John 9 and watch blame give way to purpose as a blind man sees, confronts power, and becomes a witness. Along the way we unpack signs vs miracles, the Sabbath dispute, Siloam as “sent,” and how spiritual sight grows from trust and humility.

• cultural belief in generational sin vs Jesus’ reframing toward God’s work
• “light of the world” as a thread through John 8–9
• healing with mud on the Sabbath and social controversy
• signs rather than miracles as Johannine theology
• fear of synagogue expulsion and late-first-century context
• Origen on spiritual truth and narrative arrangement
• the healed man’s rising testimony against entrenched authority
• movement from physical to spiritual blindness and the nature of belief
• practical picture of spiritual sight as humility, readiness, and obedience

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Advices read in these podcasts can be found on page 29 in our Book Of Discipline.

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SPEAKER_00:

Advice number five Be on your guard, dear friends, lest the love of pleasure take too strong a hold upon you. Choose such recreations as are pure and helpful. Let them be in harmony with your service to God and man, and in that service, be ready at any time to lay them aside when called upon. From Ohio Yearly Meetings Book of Discipline.

SPEAKER_06:

This is the LYM Greek Bible study. We are reading the Gospel according to John. This is session 16. And we will begin today with chapter 9, verse 1. All right, let's begin with verse 1 and chapter 9. I'm reading the New Revised Standard Version here. Okay, as he, as Jesus walked along, as he walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither this man nor his parents sinned. He was born blind, so that God's works might be revealed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva and spread the mud on the man's eyes, saying to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, which means sent. Then he went and washed and came back able to see. The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar began to ask, Is this not the man who used to sit and beg? Some were saying, It is he. Others were saying, No, but it is someone like him. He kept saying, I am the man. But they kept asking him, Then how were your eyes opened? He answered, The man called Jesus made mud, spread it on my eyes, and said to me, Go to Siloam and wash. Then I went and washed and received my sight. They said to him, Where is he? He said, I do not know. Okay, in verse 2, I've mentioned this before that the word for disciple basically is the Greek word matheis, which means, if anyone recalls, a student, a pupil. So the disciples are students of Jesus, and they call him rabbi. And rabbi basically means teacher. Actually, it means great one. Oh great one. But the understanding is that means teacher in Hebrew. There's an interesting comment on this culture, the understanding at this time that this man's blindness from birth could have been caused by some sin of his parents that would have been passed on to him when he was born, or that he himself, although I don't quite understand how that's possible, but that's that's the uh question we have here. Did his parents sin, or did he at some point? But again, at birth, that's a kind of unusual question asked for someone born blind. In verse five, we have Jesus saying, I am the light of the world. We saw that earlier in chapter eight, where Jesus says, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. It appears that we have the same theme here because this will be shown up a little bit later, where the light will be talked about, this spiritual light, the spiritual illumination, that Christ is the spiritual illuminator of the world. Verse 6.

SPEAKER_10:

Henry, before we go on, I'd just like to say something about that third verse. I noticed that it's also a theological statement when he says, Neither hath this man sinned nor his parents as the cause of the man's blindness, he is refuting a worldly way of seeing things in the past determine the present cause-effect. And Jesus is refuting that as the way things work, and instead, he is saying that the uh the man was born blind, that the works of God should be made manifest in him. So the reason for the fault or failure or um problem is that it is to move forward into wholeness so that it's no longer what has passed determines the present, but the present is such so that God can be glorified.

SPEAKER_06:

That's a good point because what the culture looks like they're believing in is a solely materialistic cause and effect kind of thing. And Jesus is going beyond the strictly materialistic concept of uh as the culture there was understanding how people became blind at birth or anything like that.

SPEAKER_09:

I think there was um a culture of generational sin and generational curses that they thought acted out on the next generation. Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, in verse six, it said I'll go ahead.

SPEAKER_11:

I thought there was something in the Old Testament too that they might taught that, but there are some things that seem to be passed on to the next generation. But I understand that things happen and so that God can be glorified even today.

SPEAKER_06:

Nancy, these remind me of another passage, I forget where that is in Matthew, perhaps, where Jesus comments on the fact that several people died when a tower collapsed. The comment Jesus makes is were they any greater sinners than anyone else? No, just because that the tower fell on them, there isn't a cause and effect there. Sorry, I don't remember where that passage is in the Gospels. Okay. What Jesus did here, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva. According to the Jews at this time, saliva was understood to have curative value. And this is kind of an unusual thing for us to think of that, but that was what was understood at that time. And what Jesus is doing is doing a work. He's working, he's making something. And this is going to come up later on in this passage because it says this was a Sabbath, a Sabbath day, and you just don't work on Sabbath days. Yes, David.

SPEAKER_04:

I see that Anne has posted a question in the chat. And either you could read that or she might speak if she unmutes herself.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh, yes, Ann, please ask questions at any time. I don't look at the chat because I'm looking at maybe two or three books at the same time or my own notes. It's better just to holler out at some point. Are disabilities seen as a metaphor or as real? I think it just depends on the passage that you're reading. I don't know if I can give my own personal sweeping viewpoint there for all. Yes, join us?

SPEAKER_08:

I have a question for Jack. Is there any properties in the dirt that might be of healing value?

SPEAKER_09:

Most of minerals.

SPEAKER_07:

I don't know of any medicinal benefits in dirt. I think it's more the power of Jesus at work rather than the soil itself.

SPEAKER_08:

Well, I agree with the also, but I didn't know if there was some kind of a mineral compound that might be a benefit.

SPEAKER_07:

I don't know of any.

SPEAKER_08:

Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_06:

I also think it's we're really talking here is the power in Jesus. Marilyn also put something in the chat saying the story about the 18 who were killed when the tower of Siloam fell on them occurs in Luke chapter 13, verses 1 through 5. Well, maybe we should just look at that, because that also is Siloem. Okay, at that very time there were some present who told him, Jesus, about the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. He asked them, Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way that they were worse sinners than all other Galileans? No, I tell you, but unless you repent, you will all perish as they did. Or those eighteen who were killed when the Tower of Siloam fell on them. Do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others living in Jerusalem? No, I tell you, but unless you repent, you will all perish just as they did. I think the import of that story is the need to really have a paradigmatic shift in consciousness, be more godlike, become humble, to obey God in all the things that we are told by him. Okay, let's go back to chapter 9. All right, I know I don't think there's anything else in that passage to bring forth. All right, verse 13. They brought to the Pharisees the man who had formerly been blind. Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. Then the Pharisees also began to ask him how he had received his sight. He said to them, He put mud on my eyes, then I washed, and now I see. Some of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, for he does not observe the Sabbath. But others said, How can a man who is a sinner perform such signs? And they were divided. So they said again to the blind man, What do you say about him? It was your eyes he opened. He said, He is a prophet. I don't know if it was last week or the week before, I read this passage from the New Testament, from this Jewish New Testament, in which you have a translation that expresses the Jewishness of the texts of the New Testament. As far as we know, perhaps all of the writers of the New Testament except Luke, who wrote the gospel according to Luke and the book of Acts, were Jewish. And by using Hebrew and Aramaic words where they specifically occur in this work, you get a much deeper understanding of the Jewishness of this whole New Testament. If I were to just read this little passage we just read here, they took the man who had been blind to the Purashim. Now, the day on which Yeshua, Jesus, had made the mud and opened his eyes was Shabbat. So the Purashim asked him again how he had become able to see. And he put mud on my eyes, then I washed, and now I see. At this, some of the Purashim said, This man is not from God because he doesn't keep Shabbat. But others said, How could a man who was a sinner do miracles like this? And there was a split among them. So once more they spoke to the blind man, Since you're the one whose eyes he opened, what do you say about him? He replied, He is a prophet.

SPEAKER_04:

Henry, I have a question back in verse seven, which might have some linguistic stuff behind it. Kind of a parenthetical remark here about translating the literal meaning of Siloam. I just wonder, is there some theological meaning here about to be sent, one who was sent?

SPEAKER_06:

That's verse seven, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I just wonder why that's put in there.

SPEAKER_06:

Again, we've had this happen before where a translation of a Hebrew or an Aramaic word is given in Greek, which would indicate that the audience for which this gospel was written included people who did not know Hebrew or Aramaic, and so it was translated for them. If there's some other meaning, actually, this word I'll say it in Greek, it's apostelmenos, apestal menos, which is like apostolos, you know. Apostel menos sent an emissary is an apostolos, which is our word apostle.

SPEAKER_04:

So I'm just wondering whether it's the reason that the author gives that translation is that there's some meaning about being sent, something more than just commenting on the place name.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm not aware of anything there.

SPEAKER_10:

I think there is something there because I think that chapters eight and nine contrast of the way Jesus works. In John 8, he was confronting the Pharisees directly and was really not getting anywhere with them. They pick up stones to throw at him. But in chapter 9, he works indirectly, he heals someone who is wanting to be healed, and that person then confronts the Pharisees and makes mockery of them. So I think Jesus is working differently in these two chapters. In one, he's confronting a people that aren't interested in what he has to say and are opposed to it. And in the next, he's working with someone who is wanting his assistance and his healing. And then that person goes to the Pharisees and prevails over them. So I think in a way he is like an apostle sent by Jesus. And that's really one of the main points of the chapter or of the story is that this person who was blind and could only speak in monosyllables ends up making a mockery of the Pharisees in the chapter. So he prevails over them. So I think he is sent like an apostle.

SPEAKER_06:

Okay. Yeah, apostolos is the word for apostle. It basically means an emissary, and apostel menos is a participle, meaning something sent. The root here, stol and s t-a-l, is the root that means send. An apostle is someone who's sent off an emissary, an ambassador, even. Uh, one other word here I want to point out in this section is in verse 16. Let me just look at the Greek again. You see that word, the word that I have that gets translated here as signs. How can a man who is a sinner perform such signs? The Greek word for sign is Semaon is a sign. It's interesting in the gospel according to John that the word miracle is never used. Instead, the word sign is used. That these are signs of something unusual, something spiritual, something greater than normal. And this is just one instance of that. Also in verse 17, the man says, He said he is a prophet, prophet tas, and that basically is a prophet, but it's a spokesperson, a spokesman. The word itself literally means that the prefix pro means for, and the root ph long e there means speak. It's someone who speaks for another. That's what a prophet is. It's not only a person who talks about the future, but it's really a spokesperson for God, and that's the clear understanding you get throughout the New Testament and the Old Testament, that it's a spokesperson, a spokesman for God, and not someone that just may predict the future, although that's included.

SPEAKER_11:

In my Bible, they did translate it as miracle.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, I I've seen translations, but it's not the word for miracle. I believe that, but I just yeah, it's just people take, I want to say poetic license, but uh sometimes they they're not as close to the original as they should be, especially when that matters. Okay, let's go on. The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight and asked him, Is this your son who you say was born blind? How then does he now see? His parents answered, We know that this is our son and that he was born blind, but we do not know how it is that he now sees, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him, he is of age, he will speak for himself. His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that anyone who confessed Jesus to be the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. Therefore his parents said, He is of age, ask him, passing the buck. Okay, I've mentioned this a number of times, and again, this word in Greek, eudios, is the word that gets translated as Jew, Jew or Jewish. But as I've mentioned, this gospel most likely came to its final edition in the last decade of the first century, and by this time, this word also had a negative sense among Christians in being used not only to mean someone ethnically a Jew, as it's used in the gospel, but also anyone who is opposed to Jesus as Messiah, those specific Jewish leaders and their followers who were opposed to Jesus, refused to see him as Messiah, and perhaps persecuted Christian Jews.

SPEAKER_04:

It seems to me that there's something a little anachronistic here.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, we're gonna get to that.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, okay. Reading back from 30 years later, right, the next expulsion from the synagogue.

SPEAKER_06:

So if you go, we'll get there. Let me see if there's anything before that. Okay, so they're afraid of speaking, and if they're asking, let you know, let the son speak for himself, he's of age. But then we have here in verse 22, his parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews. Now they're Jewish, you can't be afraid of, you know, it's again those specific Jews in opposition to Jesus as Messiah. So that's the people they're afraid of, for the Jews had already agreed that anyone who confessed Jesus to be the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. Okay, well, we know that by the middle of the 80s, some 50 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus, at that point Christians were being expelled from the synagogues. It was like the final expulsion. So we have some anachronistic thinking here where what was going on when this gospel was written is put back into the time of Jesus, some 50 years ago. I think the point is that you know Christians are suffering at this time. So this is anachronistic. It's it's as if it was happening then, but it really wasn't. It was much more something later. We should again read the thing I brought up a couple of times before that early Christian writer Origen wrote. Here he's talking about the evangelists, the writers of the gospels. And this was written sometime between 226 and 232 and later. And he's talking about something that is clearly very different than the understanding of many Christians today. But he says here, I do not condemn the gospel writers if to serve their mystical view they have in some way rearranged actual historical events in an order other than that in which they occurred, so as to tell of what happened in one place as if it had happened in another, or of what happened at a certain time as if it had happened at another time, and to introduce into what was said in a certain way some variations of their own. For they propose to speak the truth both spiritually and literally, insofar as possible, and where this was not possible, to prefer the spiritual to the literal. They often preserve the spiritual truth in what some might call a literal falsehood. One very obvious example is that in one gospel, the cleansing of the temple by Jesus, when he knocked over the tables of the money changes and whatever, occurs at the beginning of his ministry in one gospel, and it occurs at the end of his ministry in another. And there are various theological reasons why the writers of those two gospels did that. They wanted to present something from a different perspective. So here we have something like this in this passage and throughout this gospel in various places.

SPEAKER_05:

What you just put up and shared, is that something that you could include in the email of that particular paragraph or section you just shared?

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, okay. I think I have in the past, I'll do that again. Uh, there's a three-volume set, and uh the editor, I think his name is Jurgensen, the faith of the early fathers. So for the second time, they called a man who had been blind and they said to him, Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner. He answered, I do not know whether he is a sinner. One thing I do know that though I was blind, now I see. Okay, give glory to God. Basically, that's the equivalent of asking someone to swear on the Bible, give glory to God. 25. He answered, I do not know whether he is a sinner. One thing I do know that though I was blind, now I see. They said to him, What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes? He answered them, I have told you already, and you would not. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples? Then they reviled him, saying, You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from. The man answered, Here is an astonishing thing. You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners, but he does listen to one who worships him and obeys his will. Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. They answered him, You were born entirely in sins, and you are and are you trying to teach us? And they drove him out, they kicked him out.

SPEAKER_01:

The uh JB Phillips translates that statement in verse 34, you misbegotten rich.

SPEAKER_06:

Okay. I'm just seeing how this would be translated with the Hebrew words in it. Yeah, they just use the word Talmudim, disciples or students. You may be his Talmud, they said, but we are Talmudim of Moshe, Moses.

SPEAKER_04:

I'd like to observe that in verse number 25, it's just a wonderful refrain in an old gospel hymn written by a blind woman, Fanny Crosby. Once I was blind, and now I can see the light of the world is Jesus.

SPEAKER_06:

Well, there's also the pen by Newton. I once was blind, but now I see. An interesting translation here in 33 in this Jewish New Testament. If this man were not from God, he couldn't do a thing. Why, you momzer, they are retorted. Are you lecturing us? And they threw him out. You know, why you, Mamzer? A Mamzer is a bastard born in sin. They're really uh being nasty to him. All right, let's finish this chapter here with uh more blindness, but not physical blindness. Jesus heard that they had driven him out, and when he found him, he said, Do you believe in the Son of Man? He answered, And who is he, sir? Tell me, so that I may believe in him. Jesus said to him, You have seen him, and the one speaking with you is he. He said, Lord, I believe, and he worshipped him. Jesus said, I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see may see, and those who do see may become blind. Some of the Pharisees near him heard this and said to him, Surely we are not blind, are we? Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would not have sinned. But now that you say we see, your sin remains. Again, I've talked often about this word believe, that it means to trust, to be trusting, to have faith, to have confidence in. And that question Jesus asks him, Do you believe in the Son of Man? He's asking him, Do you have confidence in the Son of Man, the Son of Adam? Remembering that the Hebrew word Adam means both man and mankind, and Jesus is the son of mankind or the son of Adam. Do you have your trust? He's asking him, in the son of Adam. Of course, the man doesn't know who he's talking about, and he asks, you know, who is he, sir? And then Jesus says that it's Jesus speaking to him. And then, of course, in verse 38, he says, Lord, I believe. Master, I do have confidence in you. I do have the spiritual trust in you. And he worshipped him, he he paid him homage. And then, of course, here Jesus makes a statement about vision being or sight being spiritual and versus physical, and how those who are spiritually blind need to change, basically, and not stay stay spiritually blind. I'm trying to remember now. I've never seen it mentioned, but I'm wondering if the root of that, it may be the root for the word for dog, to prostate oneself down on the ground like a dog groveling. That kind of complete subjection to an overwhelming power. And I can't recall right now what the root means they ordinarily give. I'm just commenting. Uh, I've thought that that root, the K-U-N there, press kunao. Let me let me just why don't I look that up and see what this dictionary says? Hold on, let's just write that down. Yeah, see, kunao means to kiss. This dictionary here says it means to express an attitude or gesture one's complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, fall down and worship. That's why I think this root, the K-U-N, which is the root meaning dog, canine, may mean that. Do obeisance to prostate oneself before, do reverence to, do welcome respectfully. So I kind of still feel that they are incorrect in what they're saying. The root of this is, but the meaning is very clear that it's this kind of total submission to a high authority figure, to God, or to any divine figure or or uh government official. It's frequently used, was frequently used to designate the custom of prostating oneself before persons and ah, and kissing their feet or the hem of their garment, the ground, etc. The Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or something holy. So, okay, it could be kiss, but that root is the same root for uh the K-U-N is the same root for dog, cuon is the word for dog.

SPEAKER_10:

I think that last verse 41, Jesus is saying that the readiness for healing is an awareness that one needs it. And just as the blind man was healed earlier in the chapter, he's telling the Pharisees that if they realized they were blind, they would. Be in a better position than they are, they would be ready to be healed. But instead, they say that they already see, which puts them in the position of thinking they don't need to be healed. So what Jesus is saying in that verse is that our readiness depends upon whether we think we need to be healed or not.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, I think they're being adamant in their sinfulness and sticking to their pride, wrong beliefs, to their sin, unfortunately. I think that's still very true today among so many people in so many ways. You see it. I hope I'm not that way, but I'm sure there have been times.

SPEAKER_03:

I was wondering, you know, it talks about spiritual blindness, but I was wondering if you have a spiritual vision, what would that mean in a concrete way? Would that mean that you see things the way God sees things, or what?

SPEAKER_06:

I'm not clear as to your question.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, they talk of the spiritual blindness, right? Spiritual blindness?

SPEAKER_06:

They're blind to true spiritual things.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so my question is what would it be if you weren't spiritually blind? What if you had spiritual sight? Then what would you see if you had spiritual sight?

SPEAKER_06:

I think it's an openness or a deep humility to be able to hear what God the Father or Christ Jesus is trying to express to us, even if it's something we may not want to hear, but that we are willing to listen and to follow up on it, to believe it, to accept it, even though it may go against our own more material kinds of thinking.

SPEAKER_03:

Are there any situations where somebody actually can see things the way God sees them? From God's viewpoint?

SPEAKER_06:

I think the whole sense of a prophet is someone who is being a conduit, a mouthpiece, an oracle for God, and not letting his own thinking or thoughts color or change what God is trying to convey through him or her. There's that kind of openness, that kind of willingness or humility to do that, even though you know one may not want to. As I mean, we've got so many instances of things like that happening with the prophets in the old testament.

SPEAKER_03:

Usually they got retaliated on, right?

SPEAKER_06:

Okay, I mean a number of prophets did not live as long as they could have uh for what they were doing.

SPEAKER_02:

What hope it seems to be asking is would we then be seeing things as God is seeing them? That's a question that had never occurred to me.

SPEAKER_06:

And that I think has to do with the individual person as much as they're capable of in terms of whatever they're given is, in terms of who they are, their intelligence, their experience, their knowledge of the world, their depth of openness, so that I'm not sure you can say give a clear yes or no or all or nothing kind of answer to that kind of question. I think of Paul, and even over time and in all his epistles, there's a growth that he had himself in his understanding. And even before he began his ministry, I think what was he in in Arabia for three years before he did anything, after he was knocked on the ground uh on the way to Damascus and had that vision of Jesus? Would one time sometimes to get things uh to a greater level of understanding?

SPEAKER_02:

Would one part of the answer be that God doesn't necessarily see things? I mean, we don't see things the same way that God does. I mean, so for instance, Christ loves us and we can love other people in exactly the same way as Christ loves them because Christ is loving through us.

SPEAKER_06:

But it's not an intellectual seeing, it's not a knowing, it's a I'm thinking it like in where is it, Ecclesiasticus? God says, My ways are not your ways. My there's more to that quote I can't think of at the moment.

SPEAKER_07:

That that's from Isaiah. Is that Isaiah? As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than yours.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh, okay. That's that's yes, that's true. Now, but I was thinking of something else. Uh that's very similar to the one I was trying to think of. But yes, thanks. That's Isaiah chapter what, Jack?

SPEAKER_07:

Is it 57, 55?

SPEAKER_06:

Okay, somewhere, somewhere else.

SPEAKER_07:

Somewhere I'll look it up. That's all right.

SPEAKER_03:

What I was thinking of is that if a person saw things more like God is, it would be more like Mother Teresa. So when you see the poor and the poorest of the poor, you see God in them. So it changes your perspective.

SPEAKER_06:

Well, yeah, I think you know, as Quakers, as conservative friends, we uh hopefully do see and acknowledge that spirit of God, that spirit of Christ is in everyone, maybe only as a seed in many, but it is still there. It needs to grow, it needs to be nurtured, nourished. Maybe other people need to help someone become more aware of that seed of Christ in them. All right. Uh, any other questions or comments?

SPEAKER_07:

That Isaiah was chapter 55.

SPEAKER_06:

Thanks, Jack. Okay, so uh, if there's no more questions or comments, I think we can perhaps end it here and continue next week. Although I'll see some of you again on fifth day on Thursday for the fundamental beliefs. Well, thanks, thanks everyone. Thank you. Begin with chapter 10 next week.

SPEAKER_10:

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meetings Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website at Ohio Yearly Meeting.org.