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Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #18

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John 11:1-37

We read John 11 with attention to language, source questions, and the inward Light, moving from Lazarus’s death to Jesus’s tears and the claim “I am the resurrection and the life.” We contrast Martha’s presumption with Mary’s surrender, and explore how glory means God’s manifest presence, not spectacle.

• ethical framing against gambling and exploitation
• John 11 context, Bethany near Jerusalem
• name meanings and linguistic notes in Greek and Hebrew
• “glory” as manifested presence of God
• light “in” a person vs external light
• sleep vs death and Johannine misunderstanding motif
• “I am the resurrection and the life” and zoe vs bios
• Martha’s doctrine vs Mary’s inward posture
• Johannine community, late dating, and source theories
• Jesus’s emotions, “deeply moved,” “troubled,” and “Jesus wept”
• early heresies: Docetism and the full humanity of Christ
• Quaker emphasis on inward life, peace beyond understanding

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To learn more about Ohio Yearly Meeting (Conservative) of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), please visit ohioyearlymeeting.org.

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Advices read in these podcasts can be found on page 29 in our Book Of Discipline.

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SPEAKER_01:

Advice number seven Avoid and discourage any kind of betting or gambling, as well as commercial speculations of a gambling character. Remember how widespread are the temptations to grow rich at the expense of others, and how apparently harmless indulgence leads often by degrees to ruin and crime. From Ohio Yearly Meetings Book of Discipline.

SPEAKER_04:

This is the Ohio Yearly Meeting Greek Bible Study. We are reading the Gospel according to John, and this is session eighteen. We left off at chapter 11, verse 1. Let's go on to chapter 11. This has to do with the death of Lazarus. Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary, and her sister Martha. Mary was the one who anointed the Lord with perfume and wiped his feet with her hair. Her brother Lazarus was ill. So the sisters sent a message to Jesus, Lord, he whom you love is ill. But when Jesus heard it, he said, This illness does not lead to death. Rather, it is for God's glory, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it. Accordingly, though Jesus loved Martha and his inner sister and Lazarus, after having heard that Lazarus was ill, he stayed two days longer in the place where he was. Now this name Lazarus, anyone know the English equivalent of the Hebrew? I don't know if I've mentioned it before. It would be Eliezar, El Azar in Hebrew, and that's Lazarus. Mary is Miriam, and Martha is Martha. One point I should make note of here that in verse 2, the Mary who rubbed perfume onto the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair, most scholars do not think this was Mary the prostitute, as we think of one of the Marys. Mary was a Miriam, as the Hebrew is a very common name, still is today.

SPEAKER_00:

I haven't the cross-reference in front of me, but I think that one of the gospels simply says a woman who did the uh anointing with uh precious perfume. That might have been in Luke. So I don't know if John is unique equating her with um the uh previous anointing.

SPEAKER_04:

I kind of forgot about that, yes. The thing is where you have Mary, Mary Magdalene having sort of been thought of in recent centuries as the prostitute, which is unfortunate because that Mary was not even thought in that way until about the seventh century, actually. As I say, there are quite a few Mary's, and the uh the Greek is Mariam, or one at least one form, even like the name John is very, very common. I think I've mentioned in the past sometimes to distinguish people, they would say we're that, let's say it was John, John from Nazareth, or John of Jerusalem, or John of Gaza, or or something like that, to distinguish a person, or they would say John, son of uh somebody, and they would have the father's name there, John son of Joseph. And and this was one way of uh distinguishing people, Jesus of Nazareth. Again, Jesus, the Hebrew is Yeshua, and the Greek is and the Latin is like English, Jesus, Yeshua, Jesus, and Yesus, and that gives us our Jesus, which means Yahweh saves. I was going to say, oh, Lord, he whom you love is ill. If you remember who the disciple was at the Last Supper that asked Jesus who it was that was going to betray him, and Jesus said, the one that would dip the bread into the uh oil, and that disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, is also mentioned right here, as well as the very end, the last chapter, chapter 21. Again, in verse 24, this is the disciple who is testifying to these things, and it refers to the disciple Jesus loved in verse 20. Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. He was the one who had reclined next to Jesus at the supper and had said, Lord, who is it that is going to betray you? This most likely is the source for this gospel rather than John. Many biblical scholars think this, that it's possible that Elie Azar, Lazarus, was the source of the information here. We never get the name other than in this particular place that he whom Jesus loved, Lazarus. In verse 4, I'm just looking at the Greek here, this sickness, this here sickness is not one towards death, but rather for the glory of God. Again, if you recall what I've said before about the word glory in Greek, and also refer to the Hebrew Shekinah, which means the manifested presence of God. So that what you have here, rather, it is for God's glory, it is for the manifested presence of God in this miracle of the raising of Lazarus. So this word glory is has this Hebrew sense of the manifested presence of God, that there's some apparent something extraordinarily divine happening, and that's one of the basic meanings of glory. Of course, I should also mention it also just means brilliance and splendor, and a few other meanings as well.

SPEAKER_00:

I just have a sense that there's a very tender intimacy among all four of the uh people in this story, and I don't get quite that same sense in the parallel renditions, and also at least one of the other gospels I I checked, it it doesn't identify this Mary with the uh incident of the of the anointing with the precious perfume.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Uh what's very interesting is that this miracle is only mentioned in this gospel, it's not mentioned in the other three. Again, here you have Lazarus, Mary, and Martha live right near Jerusalem. They don't live up in Galilee, where Jesus spent most of his time. I mean, his headquarters was in Capernaum, right on the western shore of the uh Lake of Tiberias, the Sea of Galilee. And in the other three Gospels, you get the impression that Jesus' ministry was only for one year. It's only in this gospel that it's clear, in terms of the different Jewish festivals that are given, that it was for three years at least. So this is a very different source of information on Jesus than what was most likely collected by those other writers, I should say, in the other three gospels. And of course, as I think perhaps all biblical scholars think, that this was the gospel that was written, the last of the four gospels that we have, most likely in the last decade of the first century. And there was a lot of thinking going on 60 years in those 60 years between the death and resurrection of Jesus and the writing of this gospel. That Lazarus, or whoever the source was, is the source for all the information in this. Um, they had a lot of time to think about who Jesus was, what he did, why he was resurrected by God the Father, and many other thoughts. So as I keep referring to what Origen says about the gospel writers tried to keep the spiritual truth as best they could in line with the physical kind of evidence, but presenting a spiritual truth was more important than just getting the facts like a reporter would get them. So, in this case here, as we'll see continually throughout this gospel, there are things that Jesus says and does that would have gotten him into immediate trouble many times. You know, I am the resurrection and the life, and could have so often have been just arrested. But again, what's being presented by the writer or writers of this gospel is to present Jesus as they then understood him and having looked back at his life and understanding this amazing thing in terms of he himself being raised by God the Father? All right, let's let's continue here. This is verse 7. Then after this he said to the disciples, Let us go to Judea again. The disciples said to him, Rabbi, the Jews were just now trying to stone you, and are you going there again? Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Those who walk during the day do not stumble because they see the light of the world. But those who walk at night stumble because the light is not in them. After saying this, he told them, Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to awaken him. The disciples said to him, Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will be all right. Jesus, however, had been speaking about his death, but they thought that he was referring merely to sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, Lazarus is dead. For your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe, but let us go to him. Thomas, who was called the twin, said to his fellow disciples, Let us also go that we may die with him. Okay. In verse 8, again we have the word Jew, and as I've frequently mentioned, Jew could just mean an ethnic title, Jewish. But so often in this particular gospel, given how late it was written, and that the same word Udaios was used to refer not only to ethnic Jews, but to those specific anti-Messiah Jesus Jews, the authorities and their followers who are opposed to Jesus as Messiah. And that's clearly the sense right here. The Jews were just now trying to stone you. I think verse 9 and 10, again, we're we have a distinction here between spiritual illumination and physical light. Daylight we see during the day. But those who walk at night stumble because the light is not in them. Verse 10 is interesting because the light is not in them. Um, I'm not clear on this, what I've read, but it's interesting. It sounds like the Jews at this time thought that the light that you see out there emanated from within you. I mean, you had the sun, the moon, the stars, whatever light source, but that it was the light within you that allowed you to see, and I've never quite known how to understand this, but you'll get these other kinds of expressions in the other gospels too, the light within you. And I'm talking about what we would call physical light here, but of course, seeing Christ as the light within, there's a spiritual sense. In verse 11, again, we again have this kind of thing where so often people are understanding Jesus literally when he's speaking symbolically, saying that Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I'm going there to awaken him. I know even today we can talk about putting an animal to sleep, a sick dog or a sick cat. We put them to sleep.

SPEAKER_03:

I just need to ask to back up. This is Marilyn. In that verses 7 through 10, I'm understanding it as he's saying that he has the light within that he can walk into this dark place. Is that no?

SPEAKER_04:

No, no, um, because the light is not in them. This is where you have both physical light, whereas for somehow Jews at this time understood something about light coming. If you were blind, you know, I mean the this kind of light, but at the same time, Jesus is speaking here symbolically, spiritually. They are lacking that spirit of God, that that illumination in them.

SPEAKER_03:

The people of Judea.

SPEAKER_04:

The people who are unbelieving Jews.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm just trying to remember another passage that occurs in the other gospels. It's the passage that you don't uh cover a light with a bushel. The light needs to be shining from the top of a hill. I don't recall where that passage is from, but I think there's a similarity there too.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm glad that we have not only the Greek in front of us, but you to point these things out. Several English translations simply dwell with the uh physical. They stumble because there's no light, like in the dark. But uh, you know, the underground underlying Greek uh post I may uh in autos in here in him. So several translations get that, and others frozen, David.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh oh. Could they repeat that?

SPEAKER_00:

I've had bad connectivity today. I'm sorry. Is it better now?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, yes. Okay, what is it? Verse nine. Uh he answered, are there not 12 hours of daylight of the day? If anyone walks around in the daylight of the ship, right, right. I look because the light of the world, the light of this world, he sees. If, but if someone walks around in the night, he stumbles because the light is not in him. See, I was saying it there's this kind of strange understanding. And I'm just we just don't. I can say something very interesting. Um, I just this just reminded me. Uh I've had many eye surgeries on my right eye, actually, six different surgeries. The very first one was I had a torn, detached retina. And when I finally saw the uh specialist, the retina specialist, he wanted it late on a Friday afternoon. He wanted to do surgery immediately that evening, but he couldn't find an operating room. So I had to wait till the next morning, Saturday morning. That night, I didn't sleep much, obviously. I was having these brilliant flashes of light, like I've never seen, like looking at the sun. It was just very strange. But then also there was this arc of darkness, which was the blindness there that was growing overnight. And it would have covered the whole eye completely if I hadn't had surgery when I did. I'm happy I had it done within the 48 hours they could do it. But I do remember that brilliant light, you know, like looking at an atomic bomb, just for a couple of seconds, but it occurred several times. I mean, you say, Where did that light come from within me? You know, it was uh just this brilliant white light. I'm wondering if there were Jews that had that happen to them too, and they therefore assumed that the light comes from within you. Again, this was in the middle of the night. So uh just a side thought.

SPEAKER_00:

I just wanted to elaborate a little bit more. I'm glad that we have various translations to look at because in this case, three of them that have become my favorite don't get it. They translate it as stumble because there's no light. The Weymouth, the uh speed, and the um contemporary English version don't get it, but King James does. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04:

So I don't remember where I learned that little fact. It was many, many years ago, 30, 40 years ago. I read it somewhere in some commentary, but obviously many biblical commentators aren't aware of that understanding among ancient Jews. So okay, in uh 11, let's see. So I am going that I might wake him up. Obviously, in verse 12, they knew that sleep is very helpful for healing, but then Jesus is makes it quite clear to them that he was speaking symbolically that it wasn't sleep but death that he was talking about. You know, if you recall the woman at the well, where Jesus said something to her about living waters she could get, and where she's asking, where can I get this water? Physical, but he's not talking about physical water. Uh, living water is the Greek equivalent. I understand it's also the Hebrew meaning uh flowing water, which was considered fresher than something from a well. Verse 15 I am happy, I rejoice for your sake that you may believe, you may have confidence that I was not here. But let's go to him. Thomas, doubting Thomas, and he's called the twinos. Thomas, I understand in heap in Hebrew to Oma means twin, so it's that's his name. Let's go so that we may die with him, he says. Let's read the next section. When Jesus arrived, this is verse 17, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days. Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, some two miles away. And many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them about their brother. When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary stayed at home. Martha said to Jesus, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of him. Jesus said to her, Your brother will rise again. Martha said to him, I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live. And everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? She said to him, Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world. As the custom of the Jews was when someone died, they quickly got the body into the ground. And it says here in verse 19, and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary. Of course, this is just ethnic Jews, not those opposed to Jesus. So we have this other meaning of the word Jew, you dios in Greek. Obviously, in verse 21, Martha knew that Jesus could perform miracles in saying, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. And she uses, of course, the word kurios, which means Lord, but it's also the polite way of saying Sir, Mr. So you had these two meanings for Lord. I just can't imagine her at this moment saying to a good friend, Jesus, Lord, it's like we understand that from our perspective, but it would have been just a polite way of addressing Jesus at this time.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that a theme that's running throughout this chapter is that presumption is a human failing. If you look at all these interactions that he has with the disciples, the disciples are always getting it wrong.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

And Jesus is always having to correct them. They are presuming that they understand, and Jesus is telling them that they don't understand. And when you look at Mary and Martha, how they're compared, in verse 20, Martha runs out to meet him, but Mary sits in the house. It's like Martha is running out ahead of her guide, where Mary is sitting still until she is called by the Lord. It goes on down there later in the chapter that Martha comes back and tells Mary that the Lord wants to see her, and then Mary goes. But Martha outruns her guide and goes out to meet him without being called. So that too is presumption. So I think that there are a lot of clues in this that this is a story about how making presumptions about the spirit is wrong. That you have to wait to have it revealed to you by the inward Christ. Here it's the outward Christ who's doing the revealing, correcting these false assumptions that people are making.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, there's interesting parallel here too, in terms of the story about when Jesus and the disciples were visiting Martha and Mary, and Martha was uh preparing the meal and doing the dishes and whatever, and she complains to Jesus, you know, get my sister to help me, Lord. And he says, What Mary, you know, you're just so busy all the time with all these worldly things. Mary is really choosing the better thing, listening to me.

SPEAKER_02:

Martha is presuming that she's doing the right thing and that Mary should be doing it too, but Jesus corrects her and says, the right thing is to listen rather than to presume.

SPEAKER_04:

It's that outward-inward distinction we have again and again. Mary just has to be busy out there in the world doing things. Martha, you mean we know who we mean though. Uh really, Mary has got it right. Not that he's really saying, Martha, you know, what you're doing is wrong. No. What how did he put it? Mary has chosen the better course, the better thing to do. Obviously, both things are necessary. You do have to take care of all your worldly cares. I'm just thinking, today was such a crazy day with the flood and everything else, getting a refrigerator in and out and moving everything around. So it's like, ah, but those sorts of things have to be have to happen. It's the inward that's being stressed here, and that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

The outward is the the human making a presumption, and I think that's that's the issue.

SPEAKER_04:

Isn't it true today, though? I'm just thinking of friends I know, small F as well as Capital F. Some of them are very busy in worldly causes, good causes for justice and peace, and you name it. And I'm all for that. But there's something else that may be more important for many people is this internal piece that should be taught them, that should be preached to them, that they need to hear. They may not be able to change all the horrible outward kinds of things happening around them in their society, in their family, in the world, but they can perhaps change something within them, their perspective as to how they deal with it, how they live with it, obtaining that peace that passes understanding, surpasses understanding. Right at the moment, just thinking of North Korea. There's no immediate hope of any change happening today, tomorrow, in the near future there. And yet somehow you can change your mind. You can enter into that divine state of God, that kingdom of God, obtaining that understanding of life, eternal life, that will allow you to suffer perhaps all sorts of things. I'm again reminded of William Dewsbury. He was an early Quaker, very profound writer. And he spent some 20 odd years in prison. I mean, he survived. Many Quakers could not even survive a few years in the horrible, filthy prisons of the time. But he spent more than, I think, 24, I forgot the exact number now. And yet he was someone that said, you know, they put shackles on my hands and they were like jewels, you know. They just couldn't get to his spirit because he knew something. He was in touch with something divine that they weren't. I have a wonderful cartoon. It was a postcard. Maybe I'll I'll dig it up next time. I I'll I'll show it to you. Maybe I can explain the cartoon. Let me just think of it for a second. It's supposedly hell, and you're in a cave, and all these sad souls are with pitchforks and shovels and wheelbarrows and whatnot. There's fire all around, and they're all looking miserable. And there are two devils there, one talking to the other. And they're looking at one guy who's got a wheelbarrow full of coal or something, and he's whistling and he's got a huge smile on his face. And one devil says to the other, we just don't seem to be getting to that guy. He's gonna be happy anywhere, regardless of what outward hell are that he's in there. And that's the kind of thing I think Jesus is saying here, too, uh, or in the story of another story about Martha and Mary, that inward peace is is so necessary, the peace that surpasses understanding. Oh, okay. Let's let's go back to John here. I am the resurrection and the life. Let's check something here. Greek 25. I okay, I am resurrection and life. Some manuscripts only have the saying, I am the resurrection, I am resurrection. Again, if you recall, also in this gospel, Jesus says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. I am the way to God, the Father. I am truth, I am the spirit of truth, I am that divine, eternal spirit of absolute, ultimate truth, and I am life, I am eternal life. I am the life that goes beyond all ages, the life of the ages. No one comes to the Father except through this divine spirit within them. Whether they can name that spirit or not, that spirit of Christ, the spirit of that light of Christ within, that divine agent and agency, that light, that illuminator and illumination, that is the way to God. And that's the only way to God. It may be the case that people were born before Christ, Jesus was born, or they've never heard of Jesus, but if they are aware of that spirit and they follow it, that is the way to God. That is the way to the Father. And no one comes to God the Father except through obedience to that divine inward spirit. We as Christians have the blessing of having the New Testament and as Quakers, having a very clear understanding of this compared to other denominations. It's something that we should be very thankful for. I am the resurrection and the life. And this word for life, I think last week I explained Zoe is the word that's used here. It's the condition of being alive. The other word, bios, is just the fact of life, like you know, different kinds of life forms, an animal that has life compared to an object that doesn't have life. And zoe is this is the word that's life or eternal life that we're talking about here. Those who believe in me, those who put their trust in me, those who have confidence in me, even though they die, even though they physically die, they will live, they will have eternal life, they will have the life of the ages. Hopefully, they will be in touch with that life even before their physical death. But that is what's being said here. And everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Everyone who is alive and puts their trust in me, complete trust and obedience in me, will never die eternally. There will be no eternal death. That is entering into eternal life, obtaining, inheriting eternal life, entering into the kingdom of God forever. And of course, Jesus asks her, Do you believe this? And she said to him, Yes, Lord. And then she gives the profound statement I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think that she really does understand it there. What she's doing is just stating a doctrine that. She adheres to. She doesn't really answer his question. Do you believe this? What he has just said? And she just gives him back a doctrine. And I think that's the problem that Martha is having is that she believes that she understands and that she presumes that she understands, but all she can do is just repeat doctrines.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm thinking that this is coming from a perspective of 60 years later, that this is being written for followers 60 years after the resurrection of Jesus, and that it's kind of a uh a reaffirmation of what they believe that Jesus was the Messiah, he was the one anointed with the Holy Spirit of God, he was the Son of God greater than a prophet.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm just seeing this as a narrative, and in this narrative, Martha hasn't been getting it right. She's been presumptuous throughout. And when um Jesus says to her that her brother will rise again, Martha says, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. She's again presuming that this uh doctrine, this catechism that she learned is sufficient. And then Jesus goes into an explanation of what that resurrection is, and then says, Do you understand this? And she repeats, or she says, Yay, Lord, I believe thou art the Christ, but she doesn't really uh show any understanding of what he said about the resurrection. She just repeats.

SPEAKER_04:

I think he has some understanding because she says, you know, if you had been here earlier, you could have saved him from dying.

SPEAKER_02:

That's also a presumption.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, okay. Yeah right, it is a presumption, yes. All right.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh what else here? Okay. It appears to me that the words being put in Martha's mouth are breaking up, David. Um, cultic, what shall I say? Um a formula that has emerged, a statement of faith that they maybe even have in their by that. Yeah, we're not we're not I'm not hearing everything back into me that the words put in Martha's mouth are an expression of what has become an accepted formula and probably part of the catechism and what is taught to new believers.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, yes, I will accept that. Again, I think this is true many places in this particular gospel, especially. It's a teaching document, it's not a history of Jesus. I mean, there are certain points that are being presented here. In some ways, it's to reaffirm what the believers already believe, but also an expression for those who are new, who are neophytes, or just become Christian or becoming Christian. Maybe this is where the this kind of these statements are being said here come from. I can understand that, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

It could be that the narrator was trying to make a distinction between merely having the catechism and actually understanding what it means, and having Martha play the part of one who simply repeats the catechism without having that understanding.

SPEAKER_04:

I say that again.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, I you're you're making the point that this was written 60 years later, and David had said that there were certain formulas and catechisms coming into the movement at that time. I think that the sensitive people at that time would have been aware that having the words of the catechism was not the same thing as having the faith, and that they could be making a distinction here between Martha, who plays the character who only has the words but doesn't have the understanding.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, I'm thinking something different. The communities that were involved with the writing and follow-up, you would say, with the other three Gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, were very different than the community of John here, Johannine community. They are much more into this inward understanding. It's in the other gospels, of course, but the focus is so much there on the inward. You've got the outward, but you've got the inward. And friends understood this too. We know from the other three epistles that there was a breakup of that Johannine community, and there was a group that left it, and then you had those who were left in the group. But what we see here in the gospel, and it's not clear too, people are not sure if those three epistles were written at the same time, slightly earlier or after. So you know, we're dealing with a variety of um, well, it doesn't really matter, I think, for us. If you want to know historically, there's those kinds of questions going on. Uh, but it it's the focus is always on the inward with this gospel.

SPEAKER_02:

And I I just think that he's using these two sisters as a foil. Mary's very inward, and Martha is very outward. And they're saying it's better to be inward than to be outward. It's better to be like Mary than to be like Martha. And they're just showing Martha here being very outward and just stating the doctrines without having a good understanding of what the words mean. That seems to be what's coming through.

SPEAKER_04:

We're always trying to get beyond the literal, the outward, the physical. I'm still reminded so often that traditional Quakerism was a religion of the spirit, and that's what they said. The brief synopsis of conservative friends' views in 1912, as well as in 19th century writings of conservatives, or Wilbur rights. I mean, we are a religion of the spirit. That is what we are. The other religions are religions of rites, rituals, festivals, rigid dogmas. We don't want to fight like that. And we don't think that way. We try to get beyond all that outward physical thinking. And it's not easy at times, I think, for a neophyte, someone new to this kind of looking at things, but this is true traditional Quaker thinking. Okay, um, I'd like to just read through the end of 37. We won't finish the discussion, but I think we should read a little bit more here. When she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary and told her privately, the teacher is here and is calling for you. And when she heard it, she got up quickly and went to him. Now Jesus had not yet come to the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. The Jews who were with her in the house, consoling her, saw Mary get up quickly and go out. They followed her because they thought she was going to the tomb to weep there. When Mary came where Jesus was and saw him, she knelt at his feet and said to him, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, he was greatly disturbed in spirit and deeply moved. He said, Where have you laid him? They said to him, Lord, come and see. Jesus began to weep. So the Jews said, See how he loved him. But some of them said, Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying? So it was Mary who would ask if he had been there.

SPEAKER_02:

They both ask that, but Mary does it in a very humble and emotional way. She's very affected inwardly, where Martha there isn't that. So again, it's a comparison between the two, Mary being very inwardly alive.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Okay, we only got a couple minutes here. Let me just see. I have in my translation wept and weep. Do you have that in your translations? The Greek word also just means cry. Jesus cried. Jesus was crying, not just weeping. Weeping is a little bit more soft, less obvious, but the Greek word means cry as well.

SPEAKER_02:

It's it we that we have a distinction in English that uh I have a question about 33, when it says he groaned in the spirit and was troubled. What is the Greek there, and what is the translation of the Greek into English?

SPEAKER_04:

What verse?

SPEAKER_02:

33.

SPEAKER_04:

These reminding me of wanting to look at something here that I forgot to look at. I think it was this verse. Jesus, when he saw her crying, and the ones who came along with her, the Jews who came along with her crying, he was enabrimasatom in his spirit. Embry Mayone. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02:

Is the word embry Mayonna or something like that?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Uh let me just put this down here. Let me get the screen here, and I'm gonna have to look that up. I know I've looked this up before, but my memory ain't what it used to be. It's a past tense, here is past tense, and so the present would be embryo. Let me look it up. I know I've seen this word before too, but uh embry Mamai to insist on something sternly, to warn sternly, also as an expression of anger and displeasure, to scold, to censor, and then the third meaning is to feel strongly about something, to be deeply moved. So he was deeply moved, okay? And remain he was deeply moved, and the other word there too. I let's see. Okay, we'll just look up this one and then we'll probably end. If I recall right, I don't have my other book here. There are variations in some of the manuscripts as to the words here. Tarasso. To cause movement by shaking or stirring, to shake together, to stir up, to cause inward turmoil, to stir up, to stir up, unsettle, to throw into confusion. So Jesus was shaken up.

SPEAKER_00:

I have one that says showing great agitation for Tarasso.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, to shake up, he was disturbed, unsettled. Shaken up is the best translation, I think, here. Or disturbed. It's in the uh passive mood. So he was shook up, he was disturbed, he was deeply moved.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

I just want to note how many expressions of emotion are attributed to Jesus within these several passages. It it truly humanizes his presence in the community as I read it.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, this is important what you're saying, David, because again, the first heresy we know of was that some people did not believe that Jesus was really a human being, that he was just divine and had only the covering, like the skin of a human being, that he wasn't a human being like all of us here. We can talk more about that next time, but that's an important point. Because that kind of that was what the people call the docetists, docetists, docetism, docetism. Um it's the first known heresy that we know of. In the following century, in the second century, it seemed to develop into what we call Gnosticism, which took on some of those same beliefs. Again, that Jesus really wasn't a human being. And I think even today among many Christians, there are those who really feel somehow the same way. They can accept his divinity, but but they have a hard time understanding him as a human being, also. That's something we should talk about next week. Okay, okay. Well, thank you, everybody, and uh well, I'll see some of you again on fifth day, Thursday, and uh next week.

SPEAKER_02:

Good night. Good night, thanks, Henry.

SPEAKER_01:

This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meeting's Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website, Ohio Yearly Meeting.org.