Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #23

John 13:12–38

We read John 13:12–38 in Greek and English, tracking how small translation choices shape big theological conclusions. We sit with Jesus’ humility in foot washing, the shock of betrayal, and the new commandment to love in ways the world can recognize.

• Word study linking whole, heal, wholesome, holy, holiness, sozo, soteria, savior, healer
• Foot washing as a pattern of humility rather than a mere ritual
• “Lifted his heel against me” and its Psalm background
• Why we translate “servant” as slave in this context
• Debate over “I am he” versus expanded “I Am Who I Am” readings
• “Receive” versus “accept” and what it implies about welcoming Christ
• Judas, the beloved disciple, and the social dynamics at the table
• Questions about bias toward the Twelve and differences among the Gospels
• “Love one another” as an inward bond and an outward witness
• Examples of costly love from Le Chambon and righteous Gentiles
• Peter’s impulsiveness, denial, and the meaning of psyche as life or soul

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Transcript

Marriage Advice And Opening Quote

Host 0:01

Advice number nine In consideration of marriage, remember that happiness depends on a deep and understanding love. Seek to be joined in a common discipleship of Jesus Christ. Ask guidance of God, desiring above all temporal considerations that your union may be owned and blessed of him. Consider the precious responsibilities of parenthood, and do not forget that the help that you may draw from the loving counsel of your own parents. From Ohio Yearly Meetings Book of Discipline.

Whole And Holy Word Origins

Foot Washing As A Model

Lifted Heel And Psalm Reference

Henry Jason 0:42

This is the OIM Greek Bible study. We are reading the Gospel according to John, and this is session number 23. We've left off at chapter 13, verse 11. I wanted to uh bring up one thing that I mentioned last week when Pat had asked a question about a translation, and let me go to that. And this had to do with the word whole. It's related to heal and healthy and health and hail and hail as in hail Caesar. Also hello. And this had to do with the word that gets translated as save or heal in Greek, sozo and so forth. Soteria is salvation or healing, and soter is savior or healer. But there are a couple of other forms I forgot to mention or didn't think of at the time. Another word is wholesome, is the same root there. Most important is the word holy and holiness. All these English words have the same root in them, a root that indicates, as you can see, having something to do with either being physically healthy or spiritually healthy. So it's quite a set of words there. Okay, let's uh go on and start reading from verse 12. We had begun reading the section on the washing of the disciples of Jesus, so the washing of their feet, and how that was something pretty extraordinary for a teacher to do. So, starting with verse 12 and chapter 13, after he had washed their feet, had put on his robe, and had returned to the table, he said to them, Do you know what I have done to you? You call me teacher and lord, and you are right, for that is what I am. So if I, your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you ought also to wash one another's feet, for I have set you an example that you should also do as I have done to you. Very truly I tell you, slaves are not greater than their master, nor are messengers greater than the one who sent them. If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. I'm not speaking of all of you. I know whom I have chosen, but it is to fulfill the scripture. The one who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me. I tell you this now before it occurs, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am he. Very truly I tell you, whoever receives one whom I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Henry, I don't recall ever hearing that idea about lifting up his heel against me any place else. Do you know what's behind that phrase?

Henry Jason 3:32

Let me just check one thing. It in what verse is that?

SPEAKER_04 3:37

18.

Henry Jason 3:38

18. Let me see what it says here. I think that's what it is literally, if I recall right. Yeah, lift it up, and I'm assuming that's the word for heel. Just let me check that. Tierna, raise one heel against someone for a malicious kick. Hmm. It almost sounds like something a donkey or an ass might do, or a cow or a horse that was angry with somebody. And it says with some relation to a form of Psalm 4010, which in the and then it gives what it is in the um Greek translation of Psalm 4010.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

My footnote says Psalm 419. Okay. It says, even my bosom friend in whom I trusted, who ate of my bread, has lifted the heel against me.

Henry Jason 4:26

Oh, okay. Let me just look up 4010 here. Well, that must be a typo because I don't think it's 4010. 419?

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Was that what 419?

Henry Jason 4:38

Yeah, that's clearly it. I know nothing else as to any other reference regarding it.

SPEAKER_05 4:43

Yeah, it's just um humans crushing the head of the serpent with their heel from then on, but that maybe that's a different heel, heel harming when Adam and Eve are sent out. Yeah, right.

Henry Jason 4:53

That's the reference to Genesis. Yeah, I can't think of any other reference to that. Okay. In 13 says, You call me teacher and lord. Again, I've mentioned a number of times the word for Lord, curios, basically means master or owner. A master in the sense of not a teacher, but an owner, a slave master, or anything similar to that. In 14, he's, you know, Jesus is saying, if I, your master and your teacher have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. And of course, the clear implication here is not specifically washing one another's feet, because as I think I mentioned last week, that was a job of a servant or a slave to wash another person's feet. But it's the humility that's understood there. The deep humility is what Jesus is telling his disciples that they must have. I tell you, slaves are not greater than their master, nor our messengers greater than the one who sent them. And it's interesting where he says, messengers are not greater than the one who sent them. In a sense, that Jesus is also talking about himself there because he goes on later in this passage to speak about God the Father is the one who sent him. So, in a sense, Jesus is being humble to God the Father. This is what true Christians should be in looking at this deep humility.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Henry, I have a question about the verse before that. Uh-huh. I try to follow along in several different English translations. And first tell me how you read it and which version was in the English.

Henry Jason 6:37

I was reading the New Revised Standard Version, but I did substitute the word slave for servant because that's what the Greek says.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I'm specifically looking at the last clause in verse 19, so that you will believe that. And then how did you read it? And I want to get a comment on a couple other renditions.

Henry Jason 6:58

You want me to translate it from the Greek?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Just from the English, and then we can look at the Greek, but I have a particular translation.

Henry Jason 7:05

All right, what I read earlier was I tell you this now before it occurs, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am he.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Okay. And I also see that it's pretty simple there in the Greek. There's a couple of translations that I think expand on it and it may have some theological implication. In the um New English Bible, when it happens, you may believe that I am what I am. And in the uh Good News Bible, today's English version, so so that you would believe I am who I am, but it capitalizes each initial letter as though it were Yahweh. I know exactly I am who I am.

Henry Jason 7:51

I know exactly what they're doing, and there's a lot of theologians who understand that implication. I myself don't think it's direct, it occurs in other places because I think there's no other way you can say this in Greek. They're adding a few words there in the English that do not occur in the Greek. That's why I think the implication may be uh it's not wrong, but it's not really there necessarily because I can't think of how else I would say that in the Greek. Let me see if I can just translate it roughly here. From now, from now on, I'm telling you before it happens that you may have trust in the future. You may have trust, you may have confidence that when it happens, that it is I.

unknown 8:44

Uh-huh.

Henry Jason 8:45

I am, that I am, it is I. That's how you would say it. It's me, is but basically this is how you say it's me in Greek. A go, a me, and okay, we'll put that down. Is the Greek word for I, me. And a me is the word am, I am in Greek. Yeah, or you could say it is I or it's me in more colloquial English, is how you would say that. And that's these are the exact words here.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Good speed says uh believe that I am what I say. But of course, it's very tempting to see that Jesus is saying, I am the great I am. I'm saying what God told told Moses, this is what I my name is. You want to know who I am? Well, I just am who I am.

Henry Jason 9:36

Yahweh.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Right.

Judas Identified And Amen Explained

Henry Jason 9:37

I don't agree with that. You know, there are a lot of theologians. You'll see that in a lot of places, but in just plain old Greek, you have to say it's me, or that's it's me. It's it is I. Oh, thank you. It am I, I think would be the older English, maybe the King James Version would say something like that. I don't know. But there's a whole theology regarding I am, uh, where Jesus says, I am the way, I am truth, I am life, and all these other these theologians are placing emphasis on the I am rather than what they should be placing emphasis, is on what Jesus is saying, He is. Jesus is truth, he is the way to God, he is eternal life, he is the gate, the door, he is that's what's more important. And even in your translation, David, they're adding a few extra words to imply that Jesus is saying something about Yahweh. I am that I am. I also see in an interesting translation where someone thought things, and it might be true, that that might be a causative verb, meaning I am that which causes to be. I cause things to be in the in the original Greek, because you just have the four letters in Greek, and you don't have to substitute the vowels for the original. I don't want to get into that whole discussion because I don't think it goes anywhere. As I say, the more important thing is paying attention to what Jesus is referring to as to that spiritual essence of him, the life within, the all those other words, the whole litany, the word of God, the light, the sun, etc., etc. In your translation, they were adding extra words that are not in the Greek, but by adding it, they make a direct reference as that they say they assume it refers back to the Old Testament. Again, in verse 20, again, I tell you, whoever receives me, whoever accepts the one whom I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. Receives and it this word also means accept. And I think in modern English, accept might be a better translation. If you're accepting who Jesus is, if you are accepting what he is, if you're accepting his message, and by accepting that, you're accepting him who sent Jesus, you're accepting God the Father. That verb just means what was it, Paralomano? It could be translated either way in modern English.

SPEAKER_07 12:16

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me. When he had said this, Jesus was deeply troubled and testified, Amen, Amen, I say to you, one of you will betray me.

Henry Jason 12:40

That's what I have in the Greek, which is just a direct borrowing of the word from Hebrew. It's like saying, It's the truth, it's the truth, or truly, truly. That's all it is, but it it's just using the actual Hebrew word. In in some translations, it will translate it as truly, and like my translation here says very truly, and that's fine. I think most people are are familiar with the word amen or amen.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

King James often says, Verily, verily, I say exactly, verily.

Beloved Disciple And Kurios Meanings

Do The Gospels Treat The Twelve Differently

Henry Jason 13:11

Okay, can we go on? And this is starting with verse 21. After saying this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and declared, Very truly, I tell you, one of you will betray me. The disciples looked at one another, uncertain of whom he was speaking. One of his disciples, the one whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask Jesus of whom he was speaking. So while reclining next to Jesus, he asked him, Lord, who is it? Jesus answered, It is the one to whom I give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish. So when he had dipped the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. After he received the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, Do quickly what you are going to do. Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him. Some thought that because Judas had the common purse, Jesus was telling him, Buy what we need for the festival, or that he should give something to the poor. So after receiving the piece of bread, he immediately went out, and it was night. Okay, and in verse 23, we have it mentioning here the one whom Jesus loved, one of his disciples, who's never named, and probably the source of this gospel, as some people think, which may even have been Lazarus, the one whom Jesus loved. I would think of that as being his closest friend. That's my understanding of that. He was reclining next to him. Now, of course, this is a feast. So if you recall, if you've ever seen these old movies of Romans having a feast, they're all on mats on the floor with a low table. So they're kind of leaning on one elbow or whatever next to the table and uh at an angle and feasting that way. So that's what the situation is here with this Passover meal. And in verse 25, this unnamed disciple that Jesus loved asks, Lord, who is it? He's again using the word here, Lord. And if you recall, I've said there's a second meaning for this word Lord in Greek. The kurios means sir or mister. It's a polite way of addressing someone. It means master, it means owner, but it also means sir, mister. It's the same word in modern Greek, pronounced a bit different, but uh kurios. We use this word over and over again, and so many people are not familiar with it, the basic meanings of it. You probably have heard this piece of music called the curies. That's just a form of this word, the vodka case of kurios. Oh, here's an interesting thing in verse 26 to whom I will dip the piece and give it to him. Well, that verb is an interesting verb, it's bapso, and that's will dip. I will dip. And I mentioned this before, bapizo, which is the word that we translate as baptize, and basically it means the same thing to dip, to immerse into something. Baptize, immerse. I just wanted to point out you can see the same root there. If I use the past tense or the error's past tense of babso, I remember this verse from this phrase from somewhere. A is the word for the nous is the word for boat, and this is an eras pap tense. A naus ebapsen means the boat tank. This root throughout indicates something going into something else, being immersed or dipped into a sauce or getting sunk in water. Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. As I've mentioned in the past, people didn't have last names and then be defined, perhaps to clarify if there are two Judases, Judas, son of somebody, and that might be to make it clear which Judas is being talked about or where they are from. Judas, the person from Nazareth. So here we have Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. The thought I have, and I'm not clear here, is that they were asking who would this be? And Jesus indicates it to the beloved disciple and Simon, but it's not apparent to anyone else that it's uh Judas here. Was it just that a couple of them got what Jesus had said? Or it's just a curious point here that um it would appear to me that most of the disciples did not see what Jesus did. But then Judas gets up and leaves, and you know, because he was holder of the money box, that was a position of a fairly high position to be in any any kind of group to be in charge of the finances. It's just one of the few references to what status Judas had among the disciples. So it must have been fairly high.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I have a question about whether John may have what others have found to be a systematic bias against the original 12. Mark points out where they're kind of oblique and they don't get it, and it points that Matthew doesn't. And I just wonder, does John have some position about who carries more authority in the post-resurrection church?

Henry Jason 18:48

I'm not clear. Repeat your question, David.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

It's based on some analysis I've seen elsewhere, it might be in the interpreter's Bible, preface to Mark, that he often will point out faults in the original band of 12, which is the basis then of the Jerusalem church, in ways that are not uh shown in in Matthew. A way of saying, well, we in the Gentile church, um, we might even be more faithful than this original band. Now, to the extent that may be true, I'm wondering if John has any what I'm calling a systemic bias against the 12 in pointing out, well, what they just didn't give it.

Henry Jason 19:31

I've never uh thought of that with regard to the gospel according to John. You know, the source material for the gospel according to John appears to be rather different from what is in the other three synoptic gospels. The synoptic gospels, the Matthew, Mark, and Luke, it's pretty clear to almost all scholars that Mark was the earliest written of all of them, and that Luke and Mark had that text available to them, plus other sources of material. If you look again at the very beginning of chapter one, verses one and two of Luke, he mentions the fact that there are these other sources. Many have written about the occurrences that have been going on there with Jesus. And we have none of those texts left anywhere. They're choosing and they're adding stuff to their own writings using Mark as the basis, but then using other sources. One is a source called Q, which refers to the uh German word Kavella, which means source in German.

SPEAKER_06 20:36

And also, they really didn't get or understand a lot about what Jesus was doing until their eyes were open after he rose and sent the Holy Spirit.

Love One Another And Translation Challenges

Henry Jason 20:54

Right. And Pentecost. The other thing, too, is uh it looks like when you're looking at the material here in the gospel according to John, it's lots of stuff down in Judea, whereas the other gospels have a lot of mostly up in Galilee, plus at the end, the passion and death and resurrection of Jesus. So we've got different sources of different people writing these different gospels. Okay, I think I will go on from there, starting with verse 31. When Judas had gone out, Jesus said, Now the Son of Man has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself and will glorify him at once. Little children, I am with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and as I said to the Jews, so now I say to you, where I am going, you cannot come. I give you a new commandment that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this, everyone will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another. Okay, son of man. Again, I've mentioned the word man is anthropos, and it's the translation of the Hebrew Adam, Adam, which means man or mankind. So this is son of Adam, son of mankind. It's interesting, and I think I've mentioned it here that in the Russian translation, Sun Chilevichsky, it's translated as the human son, the human son of God. I believe you may only find Jesus referring to himself as son of man. I don't think Paul ever refers to him using that expression, son of man. I don't recall at the moment if he ever uses son of man. Again, son of Adam, and Adam means mankind or man, has both meanings. It's just an interesting thing whenever you read this, you know. And here in the Russian, it would be the human son capitalized. So just a comment. And this word glorified, make glory. Word glory, we've talked about it quite a few times. Doksa is the noun, and it can also refer beyond radiance and brilliance. And we also learned honor has those kinds of meanings. It also means shekina. It's a translation of the Hebrew Shekinah, which is the manifested presence of God. So now the Son of Man has been glorified, has been made manifest, has been made apparent. Think of it that way, as well as made radiant. And God has been glorified in him. God has been made manifest, has been made evident in him, in Jesus. I don't know if you would have known that if you didn't know you know some of these basic meanings in what the Greek is saying here, as well as the Hebrew. So God is being made apparent in Jesus. If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself and will glorify him at once. I think that probably is the better translation to become apparent, manifested. Of course, as as Nancy was saying, it wouldn't be until Pentecost that they got the full understanding of who Jesus really was. In verse 33, I have little children. Anyone have a different translation for that?

SPEAKER_06 24:38

New English has my children.

Henry Jason 24:42

Okay. Well, the uh the Greek word, it's in the plural is technia. Let's just go there. Let's get that the singular is technology. So it's the word for a little child, but also it's an endearing form for a way of addressing someone. And if I were speaking this way to another group of guys that I'm with and I like and we're friendly and all, I would probably just say guys in English. I would never call them little children. No, and it's really kind of a mistake to translate it as little child or little children here. Let me just see if this dictionary gives a better translation of that. It occurs in a number of places in the writings of John, the epistles. So you just don't call these fathers and husbands little kids. Oh, okay. It does mean little child, plural technia. In our literature literature, only in the vocatic plural, used by Jesus in familiar loving address to his disciples, or by a Christian apostle or teacher to his spiritual children. So we don't have a word like that. I could say guys, or I don't know if you're women, you might say girls to a group of women. Uh, but if it's a mixed group or a group in a spiritual sense, I I can't think of a good translation for that. But anyway, just so you're aware.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

It's also an affectionate and guys and yes, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, guys or ladies wouldn't be affectionate.

Henry Jason 26:20

It's sort of oh, I I can't let's yes, I I well, not not by itself, but I mean in context that if I'm talking to a let's say a group of four or five guys I've known for 30 years or whatever, I'll say, hey guys, you know, it's it's I'm it's a pretty affectionate term to use in a in a given context. It seems more offhand though than it's informal, uh, and it's it's it is endearing. The linguistic term is it's a hypochoristic form. Uh there's a difference here. Let me just show technology is the word for child, and technon is like a little child or an affectionate way of calling someone a child.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Would it be equivalent to calling someone comrade?

Henry Jason 27:08

Yeah, if you were a communist um or or active in the labor movement.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Yeah, um but would it but it isn't it a bit different than that though? Because I don't think um his disciples would return if one of them came upon Jesus sitting with the other disciples, and another disciple came, he wouldn't all of a sudden say, My children, you know, because he's talking to the Lord.

Henry Jason 27:36

It makes sense when Jesus says that, but right, because he's the truth, the authority, a disciple. I mean, and the word for disciple in Greek is mathetes.

SPEAKER_07 27:50

What about my dearest ones?

Henry Jason 27:53

Yeah, something like that. It's just unfortunate we don't have an equivalent in English, which is unfortunate. But uh mathetes is the word that gets translated as uh disciple, and it basically means student.

SPEAKER_05 28:07

But since we're supposed to be as as aren't we're supposed to be as little children to enter into the kingdom of heaven, so why wouldn't it be little children?

Henry Jason 28:15

No, no, that's a different kind of sense there. I'm not even sure it's the same word, but I'd have to check on that. I'm just talking about this form of address. If I were teaching in a class, as I have, you know, elementary kids as a speech therapist, and leading a group where you know we were doing some exercises or whatever, I'd say, okay, boys and girls. But these kids, they might be preschool, kindergarten age children or second grade or whatever, and I would just say boys and girls. But uh when you're addressing adults this way, you just don't call them children in our English-speaking culture, and that's why I'm saying it's not a good translation, but it's a cultural thing, too, that we're talking about here. This brings up an overall question of the difficulties with translation, really.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

But wouldn't it be okay for Jesus to say my children? Because it wouldn't be the same as saying guys, because that's anybody in the group could say that, but I think only Jesus can really say my children, because he's in a special position.

Love In Action From History

Henry Jason 29:19

But yes, that's what I'm saying. That someone else could not speak to Jesus and the rest of them using the same word. Yeah. This is an important point in translating that you have to deal with cultural issues as well. That you just can't simply translate words directly at times because you have to know the culture and how people would address each other. I'm not sure if you would use the same word to refer. Well, I mean, even at this last supper here, I'm assuming that these disciples were not there alone, that their wives were there also, children. They just didn't leave them at home like that. If they came down for the Passover feast, they'd take their families. We're so used to looking at some paintings showing 12 disciples with Jesus, but even if this beloved disciple might not have been one of those 12, even another one. So, anyway, you bring up a lot of issues with this, and a lot of it is just speculation. What we can assume would have been true, but then we don't always know.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Henry, I have a question about verse 34 and 35.

Henry Jason 30:29

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

I was thinking about this the other day, but I didn't remember that this is where the passage was, or one of the passages like this. But we're meant to love, you know, love everybody. I but I feel like in here, I feel like it's um it's like within the church or within a um, you know, a Quaker community. You know, we treat each other in a different way than maybe people see people treating each other in the rest of the world. It's one way that Jesus attracts people. You can see a community that's acting in a very different way towards each other, and you kind of wonder what's going on there.

Henry Jason 31:06

I know what you're referring to. You will know they are true Christians by their love, their love for one another. There is a certain love that should be extended to all people by Christians, but there's also this other understanding of love among themselves as true disciples. I'm blanking out where is it in uh in a couple of places. I think in uh second or third epistle of John, where you should not be accepting those false Christian teachers. Or Jesus somewhere says, you know, have nothing to do with those people who are teaching false doctrines. So there's a distinction here made between the disciples that are clearly the disciples of Jesus and others, but at the same time, we need to express a kind of love to all, you know, loving our neighbor, loving our enemies, even, which is a pretty shocking thing to do. I I know I've heard non-Christians comment on how someone supposedly was a Christian, but they weren't acting like one. And then this is a comment by a non-Christian, and I know I've heard that a couple of times. Even these non-Christians assume that Christians should be acting, some Christians in name should be acting better or different than they are.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Well, I'm really drawn to this, the command to love one another. And I know that you probably can't resolve what is often debated as to how much of Jesus' instruction, ethical imperatives, are just for the inside group and how much for the world at large. But I am reminded of the centrality of this in the experience of the French Huguenots, specifically in the little village of Chambon au Signon. Oh, yes. When you look at the entrance of the church, inscribed in stone above it is Amezvous les uns les autres. And for them to be told to love one another had a clear imperative that you are to extend your hospitality, your caring to all who come to you. And when we visited there, we said, Well, what's the actual number? It says, Well, probably about 5,000 people. They helped to escape the Nazis and the Vichy enforcers, and at least 3,000 of those were Jewish. I'm glad that there have been Christians who don't say, Well, this is just for the N group.

Henry Jason 33:38

No, I mean, I I can recall even, I think uh, I forget what they call them in Israel, but they are there are these right righteous Gentiles, individuals like I know in Poland during the Second World War when the Nazis were in control, if a Polish, a Polish Christian, helped a Jew, he could be executed. That was the law, but some still did, knowing that it carried a death sentence. And yet you found those people who hid Jews. And uh, I mean, I'm just saying in Poland, but I think it was actually worse in Poland than elsewhere, but it was the same wherever the Nazis were in control.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

The phrase usually translated into English is righteous, and I don't know what it is in Hebrew, but there is a plaque there at the church from the group in Israel that uh holds up a remembrance of the righteous, meaning those who helped us who were not Jewish.

Henry Jason 34:32

Right. I think I may even have the word here. The word for a righteous one is Sadik in Hebrew, and Sadaka is righteousness. Again, righteous meaning upright, just, especially in God's eyes. Okay, let's see if we can finish this chapter here. This point that David brought up, I think, is important. I mean, there is a certain kind of love we have to have for everyone. But as to those who are truly Christian and we see as fellow Christians, that's something special, and that should be a model for others that others can look and say, yes, this is there's something very special here.

SPEAKER_06 35:16

We have a connection that others haven't yet had the fulfillment of. Your spirit knows when you meet another person who is full of the Lord, has the Holy Spirit. Your spirit recognizes that. I I believe. I know I have.

Peter’s Zeal Denial And Psyche

Henry Jason 35:34

Yes. I was just thinking of two things. What the was just saying, Nancy, I just feel a certain special connection with other conservative friends as a conservative friend. But then when I meet individuals elsewhere somewhere, and I feel something of that same spirit in them that I think is what should be the guiding light, the guiding light of the our guide of in conservative friends, I say, yes, there is something clearly here that I recognize as the same, whatever denomination, or in some cases, even if they're not Christian, you know, you just say, Yes, the Lord is somehow leading that person in a way that I don't know. All right, let's just finish this the last couple of verses here. This is verse 36. Simon Peter said to him, Lord, where are you going? Jesus answered, Where I am going, you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward. Peter said to him, Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you. Jesus answered, Will you lay down your life for me? Very truly, I tell you, before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times. Again in verse 37, the word Lord is kurios, kuriak, meaning master or serve, a polite form. And I just want to check here later on my life. I think the Greek says something different. Hold on. Oh, yeah. It's not the word life, it's the Greek word suke. And that's a word that's hard to translate. It can be translated as soul or spirit, but in the sense of a spirit, it's like the spirit that you find in any kind of animal. The spirit of a lion is different from the spirit of a cat. And that spirit is different than the spirit you find in a human being or in a pig. We all have our individual kind of spirit in us. Um, and in the sense that I will lay down my spirit, my animal life, I will give up, is what he's saying. And so translating it as life is fine because that's the sense of that spirit. It's not the same word as Penelma, which we know is spirit in the sense of breath or wind, and basically it's this invisible current that we call the Holy Spirit, the holy current, that holy movement, that movement of wholeness. So the word here is suque. He'll give up his life, and that is an accurate translation because again, it's the it's the animal part of us, that physical body with that animal spirit in us, which is our human spirit for us. The Latin word is anima for that, I believe. Let's just go back there, and that's where we got our world, our word animal. Anima is the noun. Uh, very true, I tell you, before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times. Before the cock crows, before the rooster crows, I've read that roosters were not allowed within the city limits of Jerusalem. I could understand why. It could be kind of annoying at night or early morning. But this also could refer to the time divisions of three hours that the Romans had. And that would be a cock crow. So it might have been when they announced the three hours. I'm trying to remember how they would have done that, but you know, that could also refer to that time period at the end of one of each of these three-hour periods, you know, 6 p.m., 9 p.m., 12, 3 a.m., 6 a.m., that sort of thing. You will have denied me three times. Again, the Greek word basically means renounce or reject. You will reject me. You will renounce me three times before that time period, whatever it was, midnight or 3 a.m. or something occurs. Any comments on this?

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Um, Henry, I I just noticed I feel like Simon Peter a lot of the time, where I get very excited about different things, because just a little bit earlier he was so excited about the feed washing that he was, you know, wash my head as well. And Jesus had to kind of calm him down a little bit. And here he's saying, Why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you. He's ready to just go into battle, and then later he he cuts off the um the servant's ear that comes to arrest Jesus, and Jesus corrects him again, and and then he but you know he disowns Jesus three times. So, in spite of all of his enthusiasm, he still has that bitter part that comes for him. But I feel like that sometimes. And and I was also thinking about this other line where he says, Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later. So I wonder if the following later is that we will follow Jesus into death or into the death of ourselves, or you will be executed, is my understanding.

Next Session Plans And Credits

Henry Jason 40:45

You will you will you'll be executed by the Romans or whoever. You will die for your faith. I was just looking at the uh, you know, I I mentioned the Jewish New Testament where they used some of the original Hebrew words. Uh, in this passage would be this. I was just reading, Shimon Kepha, Simon Peter, said to him, Lord, where are you going? Yeshua answered, Where I am going, you cannot follow me now, but you will follow later. Lord Kephah said to him, Why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you. Yeshua answered, You will lay down your life for me? Yes, indeed. I tell you, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times. Simon Peter, you know, Shimon uh Kefa was a pretty impetuous guy. You know, he he kind of quickly said whatever was on his mind, maybe not thinking very much about it, but I can feel that myself too at times. He doesn't think through. He's kind of very uh just says what's in his emotions at that moment, not just here, but at other times as well. I think in some very good ways, like way he says to Jesus, you are the Christ. You know, who do people say? What are people saying about me? Who am I? And uh he says, You are the anointed one of God, you know, you are the the Christ, the Messiah. Okay, anything else? I think we have probably finished. Uh any other comments, questions? Okay, well, we will begin again next time uh with the beginning of chapter 14. Have a good evening.

SPEAKER_06 42:23

Thanks, everyone. Okay, thank you, Henry. Thank you.

Host 42:29

This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meetings Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website, Ohio Yearly Meeting.org.