Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #26

We read John 15 in Greek and sit with Jesus’ “order” to love, the move from slaves to friends, and the promise of fruit that lasts. We also wrestle with persecution, conscience, and how translation choices like logos, paraclete, and “no cloak for sin” shape what we think the text is really saying. 
• Reading John 15:12-17 and the meaning of love as self-giving 
• “commandment” versus “order” and what obedience implies 
• Logos as message and reasoning not just “word” 
• “slave” versus “servant” and why older English can mislead 
• Why Friends may resonate with “I have called you friends” 
• John’s persecution theme and being in the world not of it 
• “no excuse” for sin and the role of conscience and refusal to listen 
• Sowing seeds over time and how people change gradually 
• Comparing Bible translations including “cloak” “pretext” and amplified notes 
• Paracletos as comforter helper advocate and how context guides meaning 
• Trinity language developing later and how creeds reflect later debates 
• Revelation as encouragement and hope under oppression 

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Transcript

Opening Advice On True Education

Host 0:01

Advice number eighteen. Seek for your children that full development of God's gifts, which a true education can bring about. Remember that the service to which we are called needs healthy bodies, trained minds, high ideals, and an understanding of the laws and purposes of God. Give your best to the study of the Bible and the understanding of the Christian faith. Be open-minded, ready constantly to receive new light.

Commandment Or Order And Logos

Henry Jason 0:39

This is the Ohio Yearly Meeting Greek Bible study. We are reading the Gospel according to John. This is session number 26. We left off at chapter 15, verse 11. Okay, I'm going to begin reading from verse 12 and chapter 15. This is my commandment that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing. But I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my father. You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another. Actually, the word there is just a command and order. This is my order, like you know, ordering someone to do something and to lay. But for whatever reason, sometimes it they feel it they need to be translating it as commandment. The word for commandment in Greek is the word logos. They use the word logos for a commandment, like the Ten Commandments. In verse 15, I do not call you servants any longer. Well, actually, in the Greek, as in many other places, the word actually is the word for slave here, do los. We see this often, and that is a slave. That's different from a servant, which is diakonos. But as I have mentioned many times, in earlier English, the word servant also meant slave. It doesn't mean that anymore.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Is there any connection between the word law and logos? Law, L A W.

Henry Jason 2:57

No. The word for law is namas, whereas the word that often gets translated as word is uh logos' word, but it doesn't usually mean that, although that's what it so often gets translated as. As I've explained, it's anything that is verbally uttered, whether it's a single word, a phrase, a sentence, a paragraph, a whole speech, an utterance, an expression. That's logos. And on the other hand, the other side of that coin with logos, the other set of meanings has to do with the power of reasoning, a reason, an account, something like that. Is that clear?

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Yes, thank you.

Henry Jason 3:43

So we get our word logical from this word logos, because the adjective is logicos.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

It seems like the law in the heart would be the same thing as logos. That famous passage in Jeremiah, I think it's 33, maybe 31. I'm not sure. I will put my law in their inward parts. What's the exact verse?

Henry Jason 4:10

I can look at the Greek translation of that. 3131.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

Could it just have been put that way at that time? Because that was how the Jews would have understood it, but we might be understanding it differently. I mean, they're saying that the law has been put in our hearts, but we would think of it as grace.

Henry Jason 4:44

No, they would have focused on the law, I think, in the Old Testament. You would be talking about the law.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

Well, we wouldn't see it that way. We wouldn't take it straight from Jeremiah, thinking that the law is written in our hearts.

Henry Jason 4:58

The thing is that in early Christianity, you also talked about the law of the spirit. Just like the law is a code of conduct in the Old Testament, the law of the spirit is what would have been referred to and was referred to in early Christian writings. And I think Paul uses it in a couple of places also. I can't say specifically right now, but it supplants the old law of the Old Testament, of the Hebrew Bible, is this law of the Spirit. And that's what I think Pat was referring to as being the Lagos, the Christ within, that inner light of Christ, is replacing the law of the Hebrew Bible. So there's definitely a relationship, but the word the two words are different.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

Okay, thank you.

Chosen As Friends Who Bear Fruit

Henry Jason 5:50

Okay. I do not call you slaves any longer because the slave does not know what the master is doing. And of course, master is chorios, and corios is the word that we always translate as, well, most frequently translate as Lord. And it means master, owner, and it's also a polite way of addressing someone.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I'm looking at verse 15. I call you friends, and I wonder if this is the proof text by which early Quakers said, This is what we call each other.

When The World Hates You

Henry Jason 6:28

I do not ever recall reading in an early Quaker writing that that is why friends called themselves friends, but clearly, since that time, that is one of the references that we've understood it to mean, that it is a that they are the true friends of Christ Jesus because they are doing what Christ Jesus tells them what to do. Also, you know, friends were called children of uh friends of truth, and again, truth against referring to Christ, to that spirit of truth. And even before that, they were called children of light or children of the light. They're all basically equivalent terms, but just kind of from a different angle. Because it says further there, I have called you friends because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my father. So what Jesus is hearing in himself from God the Father, he revealed to them. And that same spirit of Christ, that spirit of God the Father in us through Christ, as we always say, is how we know the Father's will is through Christ. In the next verse in 16, this is interesting, you did not choose me, but I chose you. What was normal in those days was for someone interested in studying under a rabbi or a spiritual teacher, they would go choose the teacher. Jesus did something very different. He went out and chose who he wanted to be his twelve apostles, disciples, along with others, of course. But that I think is an interesting phenomenon that happened then. Okay, let's go on, starting with verse 18, chapter 15. If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me before it hated you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. Because you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, servants, that is, slaves, are not greater than their master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you. If they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sinned, but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my father also. If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not have sinned. But now they have seen and hated both me and my father. It was to fulfill the word that is written in their law. They hated me without a cause. This is one of those passages I've mentioned before. Actually, it happens a few times here, especially in this gospel, where I think the writer or writers of this gospel are thinking of what's happening in their current situation towards the end of the first century. They're being persecuted, and uh they're being persecuted because they are Christians, being persecuted specifically by other Jews and also the Romans as well. This would have had meaning for early friends who are persecuted, also. Yes, yeah, oh yeah, we could see that.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

And for other Christians too, at all times. It's it's not just time specific, it's all times.

Henry Jason 10:05

It's very clear that the message of Christ is opposed to the worldly messages that one gets from so many of these worldly sources, you know, that we see so often. Christians should be in the world, but not of the world. And that's what a true Christian really is. Let me just check on a word here. I have here, remember the word that I have said to you, verse 20. Again, that's logos. You know, remember what I have said to you, not just the single word, but all of what I said. That how that word logos is used sometimes. It's whatever has been uttered, whatever has been expressed, and and that occurs there in verse 20, and also uh, well, twice in verse 20. And in verse 21, where it says, They do not know him who sent me. It again is that verb ginosko, which is the verb to know, but it also has that sense of experience, experiencing something, experiential knowledge. They have not experienced him who sent me, God the Father.

No Excuse For Sin And Conscience

SPEAKER_01 11:13

I'm pondering verse 22 here about no longer having any excuse for their sin. Not too many months ago, I was hearing where did friends uh tracing back this often misused phrase about that of God and everyone? I believe that there was a reference in Romans, and I can't find it right now, but it has to be chapter one, uh about around verse 16 or so. Is this a recurring theme? Uh if Paul is using it, and then in this last gospel about people having no excuse. Uh I just wonder what you can say about that.

Henry Jason 11:57

I'm thinking, and this is how I've thought in the past, that you know, when someone points out something that you are doing that is clearly wrong, and you just refuse to even begin to listen to what that person is saying, I think that's what's being expressed, that you have no excuse. Someone has shown you that this is not proper behavior, that this is not what God wants. Now, of course, you'll find people who like that who will then say, Who are you to tell me what is right or wrong? But if truly the spirit of the Lord is in someone and they're trying to help someone, perhaps in the most gentle way, the gentlest way, to see that their behavior is wrong, but then they get beaten up or maligned or whatever for that, I can understand how it's said that they have no excuse. They're just shut off from listening to anyone really speaking truth to them. I'm thinking of this too. I just think of how it is with people with addictive behaviors. It's very hard sometimes to talk to them about whatever their problems are in terms of drugs or alcohol. Even if you get slightly near that topic, you might get a very negative reaction. It's very hard to even begin to approach it at times, unless there's some opening in them already for change.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Well, I think in this, he's if I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin. What he is speaking to them is the spirit of God. And before that, if they in their ignorance, without exposure to that new powerful spirit that Christ is presenting, they could not have been held accountable so much because it had not been presented to them. But with his presenting the spirit of God that is available to human beings, and he's manifesting that, he's showing that a human being can live according to the spirit of God, then they don't have any excuse because they see it.

Henry Jason 14:12

That's interesting because just a little bit earlier this afternoon here, I was asked about sin, and I was thinking, you know, it's not a subjective sin if you don't know it's a sin, consciously think you're sinning. It may be objectively a sin. You know, others in the society or whatever say this man is sinning, but if you're not aware of it as something evil and it's not something coming out of you as to really wanting to do something that your say your ego is pushing you to do, then you can't hold that person guilty for that sin as such. This would be true in the old testament, but I think in the new testament, there is a certain sense of love that may separate those two kinds of perspectives of sinning.

SPEAKER_05 15:02

But with Christ within us, with Christ within us as a as a guide and a teacher, how can we truly not know at all that we're sinning if we are? I mean, not any sense at all.

Henry Jason 15:13

But you're talking about people who have that sense of Christ as a guide, as a monitor, as you know, yeah, monitor and a guide within. But what if a person is nowhere even near that?

SPEAKER_04 15:26

There is that verse in John 6.44 that talks about how God draws us to Him. Um, but there is this uh intimations of God, the light in our conscience telling us to do what is right. And we can ignore that, and that's the condemnation to prefer darkness to light. That's always available to us right from the start without any knowledge of God. We still have that light in our conscience directing us. But what Jesus is doing is he is speaking and presenting that spirit out into the world. So it's not just an inward conscience, it's actually his words being spoken, which reveal the spirit of God. So he's saying once it's put out into the world the way he's doing, there's really no excuse. It's not like it's an inward guiding us, it's something external showing us.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

I was wondering, you know that analogy about Jesus is they're always sowing, sowing, sowing, sowing for people's souls, like a plant, but a whole lot of people can sow. That doesn't mean that you're gonna reap right then. So maybe it takes multiple times before you can reap something. And also Jesus talks about that that one parable where people they're gonna get paid. Okay, but some people have worked a week and some people have worked a day and they all get paid. What I'm really I think is really important is about the sowing in the seed and how it takes multiple people, maybe multiple times from multiple sources.

Henry Jason 17:22

Yes, I would agree with that. That's right. That is true. For some people, we need to keep listening, and maybe at some point they will hear it. There was one other point that Pat made me think of a completely different thing, but in first epistle of John, you have this other kind of conscience that is not seared but is maybe very sensitive. So that even if your conscience condemns you for something and you really are not guilty of that, God is greater than your guilty conscience. You should be aware of that. We're talking about something in both directions. I think we've all had that experience where we've been, we felt guilty about doing something that really wasn't wrong, but for whatever reason, it seemed wrong to us. It's a kind of complex situation here when we're talking about sinning and what to do. Of course, yeah, I mean, even Fox talked about these sorts of things too. I mean, things like eating a piece of pork would be a sin for a Jew or for a Muslim, but not for a Christian. There are various kinds of social moris and laws and rules and regulations that may make us feel very guilty about doing something. That whole passage in Romans, there were members of the Roman church who were still very sensitive about keeping some of the Jewish kosher laws, and others who felt, no, we don't need to worry about that anymore. But those who were the stronger element need to be sensitive about those who are still very sensitive about keeping those kosher rules and regulations.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I'm still wrestling with verse 22. I don't know that we can resolve it. Two different explanations about what makes a person guilty of sin. And here it seems to be linked with uh the fact that they're guilty because Christ has been among them. And if they hadn't, they wouldn't be guilty of sin. I compare that to what Paul is writing in Romans 1, 18 through 20. And it seems like what Paul is describing here precedes Jesus' ministry on earth. And totem used this phrase about they have no excuse. But the nearest I can come to resolving this difference is to say that Paul was writing maybe some decades earlier than this compilation by John, who did not have a stenographic transcript or a tape record or something of exact words of Jesus. I think it's a community saying, This is what we have learned, this is the spirit we sense among us, and then I believe use some literary license. I am more persuaded by what Paul is saying in Romans 1 about it's evident for all creation is there. Don't need a preacher to show them the difference of right and wrong.

Cloak Pretext And Translation Choices

Henry Jason 20:12

Let me ask people here a question about verse 22. Does anyone have any other translation than now they have no excuse for their sin?

SPEAKER_04 20:22

They have no cloak for their sin.

Henry Jason 20:25

Right. That's what the Greek literally says. Now uh they do not have a cloak surrounding their sin. That's what it literally means, but it it has that sense of making an excuse. But it's literally a you know, a cloak, a piece of clothing around their sin. That's the sense of it.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

What I have is they would not be guilty of sin and would be blameless.

Henry Jason 20:50

Hmm, that's stretching it. What translation is that, Nancy?

SPEAKER_03 20:56

I have the Amplified Bible, and it also says then they would have no excuse for their sins. So they're using three different translations.

Henry Jason 21:03

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

I like it because it gives me three different choices to try to figure out what's being said.

Henry Jason 21:10

And I have a fourth one here that uses the word pretext. Pretext. Oh, okay. Let me just say something about the amplified version. I don't like the basic translation in the amplified version of the New Testament. However, what they put in parentheses and brackets, those other translations are other translations of whatever the Greek word or phrase is. And they generally are very good. But the basic text they're using isn't the one I would use. I would say use one of those alternates that they give in the brackets or in the parentheses or whatever. So this is basically for someone who doesn't know the Greek.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Well, I like it because it's not something you can just read like you could any particular version, because Have all those other words in there that so it doesn't make good sense.

Henry Jason 22:03

Yeah. At some point in the near future, I think I should just do a little session on translations and all the issues and problems and whatever. So often we know a Greek word has two or three or more meanings, but the one that's chosen for most Bible translations, I can say might not be the best word. And I've pointed that out a number of times. And one thing too about translators, they all look at all the earlier translations in their language if they have it, and they just assume that that's the best one when it sometimes isn't. The King James Version was pretty good for its time, was a good translation. But even Quakers like Fox and Hooks and others would correct specific phrases and sentences that they felt were wrong. That's even a greater problem today when you've got more than two dozen translations in English.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

I think that the King James is good here, and this is one of those times where just the arrangement, the rhetoric, conveys an idea. I'll read the 22 again. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin, but now they have no cloak for their sin. They had not had sin, I think, refers to what they were thinking that they had no sin. Because the next phrase, but now they have no cloak for their sin. It wasn't that they were without sin, it was that they were cloaking the fact that they had sin. Does that make sense?

Henry Jason 23:42

Yeah, what was that translation with pretext? That I think is that maybe gets to that point. I think Pat's talking about.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

And to what David was thinking about, because there are so many cases where people really do know in their hearts, even if they are pre-Christian or pre-religious, they really do know. You know.

Henry Jason 24:03

Yeah, well, that goes back to Romans 1.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah.

Paraclete As Comforter And Helper

Henry Jason 24:07

Okay, let's continue. All right. When the advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth, who comes from the Father, he will testify on my behalf. You also are to testify because you have been with me from the beginning. And this word advocate, we've talked about recently, is the word paracletos, which is again someone who comes along with you in front of a magistrate, and he's a helper, he's an advocate, an aide. He's there to give you some assistance. And of course, that is the spirit we're talking about when we're talking about the paraclete. Again, they often just put that word into English, paraclete. And again, I've explained that the para there is the prefix that means alongside, and the clay, k-l-e, along e clay, just means called, called alongside, someone who's called alongside with you to help.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

The King James uses comforter here as it did previously in chapter 14 when it was introduced. I prefer that word because I think it ties in with the rest of the chapter, looking at the hatred without a cause. Probably the person undergoing that prefers comfort to someone who advocates for him. I think maybe it's a small thing, but I think that the King James seems more sensitive to what the context is.

Henry Jason 25:43

All of these English translations are encompassed in that word. Let me just look at the dictionary again, see if we've left out anything with this word. One who appears in another's behalf, a mediator, an intercessor, a helper. One who's called to someone's aid. Yeah, these are all the basic meanings of it.

SPEAKER_05 26:04

He's advocating on Christ's behalf. He says he will testify on my behalf, so he's advocating on Christ's behalf. I always thought that the advocate was helping us as a comforter.

Henry Jason 26:15

I'm not following what uh you're saying.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Okay, Christ says when this advocate comes, he will testify on my behalf, meaning Christ's behalf.

Henry Jason 26:24

Oh, well, let me see what the Greek says there.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

King James says he shall testify of me.

Henry Jason 26:35

Okay, the um, oh, that's interesting. It's the word about me or concerning me, he will testify concerning. That's where the helper or the comforter will be to the person who's getting that advocate, that helper, that aid, that comforter.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

New Oxford, you know, he will testify on my behalf. It sounds like helping and comforting Christ.

Henry Jason 26:59

No, no, that's not it. Again, the Greek is about me or concerning me. Perit emu. This is an interesting point Karen's bringing up, that we are so we're so stuck in a way by the translation we have, as assuming that that translation is the best translation. At times, I question, you know, like I even in this whole series, I question what I'm reading in the English, and so I then want to go to the Greek because there's something that bothers me a little bit, but just might be because already I've got that Greek knowledge. So many theologies, so many systems of thinking about religion are based on translations, and you're at the mercy of translators, and you just pray that the Holy Spirit was in them, doing its best to have them give a good translation.

Trinity Debates And Church History

SPEAKER_04 27:55

Well, I think that the early friends uh measured the quality of the translation based upon their inward experience and understanding what the passage was referring to and how accurately it did it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I have another question about 26. 26 different versions have uh different the sense of who sends the Holy Spirit. I have one that says that the Father sends the Holy Spirit, and another says that I, Jesus, as the Christ, sends the spirit of truth, making that equivalent with the paraclete. And I know that in the early history of the church, one of the many controversies was a filioque controversy. Does the spirit come from God or the father or from the father and the son?

Henry Jason 28:49

Oh no, David, you don't want to go there. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Well, what what I'm seeing is that this that uh Jesus is saying, I am sending that spirit.

Henry Jason 29:00

Let me just translate from the Greek here if I can. When the paraclete, the comforter, the the aide, yeah, should come, whom I will send to you from alongside the father, which is from alongside the father, i.e. the spirit of truth, which comes out, comes from alongside the father, that one will testify peri emu uh about me. That it will give a testimony about me, about me, concerning me. That's how he's helping me, and that's how I get my comfort. That word peri is often used in titles of works in Greek. I mean, actual written works. There's a something written by Argin on first principles. We would use the word on, I think, in that case, and it begins with this preposition peri. Peri is on on first principles, but concerning first principles, and this is concerning me, about me. So he's going to give a testimony or testify for me about me, and that's how you have all those words of paraclete, comforter.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

I want to recognize that um trinitarian formulations are not very clear in the uh scriptures. A whole lot of agony went into trying to explain what that was, but within this, I am seeing a unity of father, son, and holy spirit. They're equivalent with each other, they're all working together. So it doesn't matter about who is sending the spirit, the father or the son. We're we're all in it together, is what I'm getting here.

John 16 Persecution And Enduring Hope

Henry Jason 30:58

Yes, I remember reading decades ago something about the word trinity doesn't occur in any Christian writing until the middle of the second century. So you had several generations of Christians who never had a clue about this dogma about the Trinity. I mean, they were quite able to live and die and be martyred without knowing anything about Trinity. And of course, the word does not occur anywhere in the whole Bible. Judaism was very, very clear about there is one God. There weren't many gods that the Israelites believed in. There was one true God. They had all these other gods, you know, Mammon and Baal, and you name it. But even today, I think Jews, at least I'm a bit aware of this, they just kind of look at this Trinitarian kind of stuff and wonder. I actually just found out something. There's a church, actually, I'm looking at outside my window here, just a couple hundred feet away, Church of Christ. They're non-Trinitarian. I didn't know that. It seems like many of the smaller churches are non-Trinitarian. I was gonna say something about that on maybe this coming Thursday, fifth day. David, you were saying about oh, uh filioque. Yeah, uh, you know, as friends would understand it, already here by the fourth century, you're more and more uh the original message and understanding of those earliest Christians was shifting away from the truth and you know, getting into philosophical, Greek and Roman philosophical systems of thought about how to look at Christ. So you you have these issues that arose then, you know, and then those with the Aryan controversy and uh all the politics involved, someone like uh the Emperor Constantine wanted to make sure that these Christians would stop squabbling over this issue and just come to a some decision, any kind of decision, about what they were going to say. You know, I have always heard the uh Nicene Creed, I believe in one God. Is that most people have heard that? I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and so forth. But I looked at the original Greek there, it's we, we believe in one God, and again, we put our trust in one God, we put our confidence in one God, but then it goes and explains it in these three persons, and that's where it gets to be a problem. And as David was talking about, is does the spirit come from the Son, or does it come from both the Father and the Son, and all these other issues that you know, and then you fight over that, and that's the history of Christianity, especially when you think of the Protestant Reformation, all the fights there, and all the different breakups into different kinds of thoughts and whatever, and people fighting over this or that wording, and well, so okay. Um, let me just see where we are here. We're almost finished. Hold on. I'd like to just maybe read the first four verses. Let me just read 16 through verse 4. I have said these things to you to keep you from stumbling, they will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, an hour is coming when those who kill you will think that by doing so they are offering worship to God, and they will do this because they have not known the Father or me. But I have said these things to you, so when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you about them. Clearly, this is a reference to what was happening when this gospel or this part was written. They were being kicked out of the synagogues, especially you know, after the mid-80s of the first century, Christian Jews are no longer participants in the synagogue. An hour is coming, a time is coming when those who kill you will think that by doing so they are offering worship to God. And again, because they have not known the Father, and I'm assuming that's the ginosco verb, let's see, verse three. Yes, and they've done had that experience, they don't know the father or me, but I have said these things to you so that when their hour comes, their time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. Any last comments?

SPEAKER_04 35:29

I still think that even though this may have been referring to the dynamic that was happening at that time, it's still applicable to every situation. These dynamics don't change.

Henry Jason 35:42

Let me say something about that. I think that is so true, especially about one whole book of the New Testament, the book of Revelation. So much of it was with reference to what was happening to Christians with regard to Babylon, which was Rome and secret code, and everything there. And friends were very clear about what was happening then was still happening in the church and happening with them in terms of them being persecuted as well. I think that is a legitimate kind of understanding. It's good to know that symbolic language, as you find it in Revelation. So many of the symbols come from the Old Testament, but it's refer they are referring specifically to the persecution that was going on right then and there among those Christians that John and the island of Patmos was describing. But the same thing could be said about friends when they first came on the scene at any other time. It's the same problem with evil. Revelation is all about evil, and good wins out over evil in the end. Another thought to think about in terms of sin. Any other thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 36:54

I find this whole presentation very comforting. Uh, a sense of compassion that Jesus has. This would have been too much to tell you before, but when you are gonna face what I'm facing, my spirit will be with you. So it's gonna seem awful, but you will not be alone. I had looked up in a previous chapter when the noun orphanos, I will not leave you orphaned, and comparing to different English translations, friendless, bereft, left all alone, bereaved. It's an ongoing, living presence that we experience now. But I'm sure that Jesus knew these folks were going to need some extra encouragement about the ongoing presence, because in upcoming days it would be total devastation.

Henry Jason 37:47

Just think in the 20th century, those Christians who've had to deal with totalitarian societies and still today, how do you deal with that? There's a lot of encouragement. I mean, I feel sad when I see these fundamentalist literalists' interpretations by such a large group of Christians of the book of Revelation and seeing all the woe and the end of the world and this and that there. When it should be seen as a book of hope, a book of encouragement, that sure, they can kill your body, but you have won and you will win in the end because of your confidence in God and that God rewards all those who are upright and trying to do their absolute best in living a true Christian life in this world. Okay, well, thank you everyone, and we will continue next week, same place. Have a good day or a good evening.

SPEAKER_06 38:48

Thanks for having me. Thank you very much.

Host 38:53

This podcast has been a production of Ohio Yearly Meeting. It was hosted by Henry Jason and edited by Kim Palmer. The introduction and credits were read by Chip Thomas. The quote in our introduction is from the Queries and Advices section of Ohio Yearly Meetings Book of Discipline. A link to that book can be found in the show notes to this episode. We welcome feedback on this or any of our podcast episodes. We can be contacted through our website, Ohio Yearly Meeting.org.