Conservative Friends Bible Study of The Gospel of John #27

John 16:5-33

We read John 16 closely in Greek and wrestle with why Jesus says it is better that he goes away so the Advocate can come. We connect word choices in translation to lived faith, where the Spirit’s inward work becomes the deepest source of conviction, clarity, and peace. 
• Symphero as advantageous, beneficial, profitable, useful 
• Why Jesus’ departure makes room for the Spirit of truth 
• Belief as trust and confidence in a condemned and crucified man 
• Miracles in historical context and why inward conviction matters 
• Sin, righteousness, judgment as hamartia, dikaiosyne, krisis 
• Elencho as expose, reprove, convict, prove clearly 
• “A little while” and childbirth as a map from grief to joy 
• Praying in Jesus’ name as sharing his nature, not a magic phrase 
• Paroimia as veiled sayings and why spiritual language stays fluid 
• “I have overcome the world” as victory over worldliness and renewed mind 

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Transcript

Reading John 16:5 To 15

Henry Jason 0:02

This is the Ohio Yearly Meeting Greek Bible Study. We are reading the gospel according to John, and we left off at chapter 16, verse 5. Let's uh begin with verse 5 of chapter 16. But now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, where are you going? But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away. For if I do not go away, the advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment, about sin because they do not believe in me, about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, and you will see me no longer, about judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

What Does “Advantage” Really Mean

Henry Jason 1:36

First, I should just ask have any questions on this section I just read.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

I don't know if it's important, but I'm looking at verse seven and I'm curious about the word translated advantage, Sympharao. Are there other flavors to that? Is it pretty straightforward?

Henry Jason 1:56

No, it's not a word I know. I'm actually looking it up here again. I see the translation, it is better, but I'm just checking that right now. Okay, the word means it is advantageous, it means it is profitable, it is useful, it is better for you that I go away as profitable.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

That does help me. Sometimes advantage implies some kind of adversarial relationship, and I didn't know if if we're supposed to see anything of that in this passage. Profitable, useful, better for you. I like that. Another word would be beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

The King James has expedient, and uh Niv has it is for your good.

Henry Jason 2:49

Advantageous. Any

Why The Spirit Comes After Jesus

Henry Jason 2:52

thoughts of anyone as to what Jesus is referring here to? Uh the reason I say that is I may have mentioned it in this group that Augustine mentions how there were so many people, Jews at the time of Jesus, who heard him and saw him and saw him perform miracles, but did not have that sense of anything really extraordinary in just seeing him and seeing what he was doing. But the spirit, the spirit of truth that would come afterwards to those who really understood what Jesus was doing and who he was, that may be even a more powerful incentive in terms of understanding Jesus Christ, an inner conviction.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

When we hear, you know, about Jesus' miracles, as I recall when I read historian type of scholars, other people were attributed to being miracle workers in that period of history, which I wanted to ask about because when we read the Bible and think about Jesus as doing miracles, we say, well, that made him very unique. In other words, there was something special about him. But I've also heard that other people were considered miracle workers in that period of time, and they would not have seen him that different or unique. And I didn't know what they might share along those lines or what others is as we think we look at it in that context.

Henry Jason 4:22

Uh-huh. As I was saying, if the spirit of Christ, if the light of Christ within becomes accessible and evident to someone, then there is a different kind of understanding than just seeing Jesus in person and seeing maybe some remarkable kinds of things happening, miracles, signs. And that's a different kind of conviction, an even stronger conviction, I think.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Maybe his obedience and sacrifice and resurrection made it possible for people to see this in a way that they couldn't see before he was resurrected and obeyed.

Henry Jason 5:03

I think we'll come to the word faith or believe again, but it's such an important word that we have to kind of remember that, you know, to believe, to have faith really has the meaning of trust or confidence. And the trust or confidence is very important at this time because you have to remember that Jesus was a convicted criminal who was executed by the government. If Jesus were to be appearing today in the United States as a convicted criminal and being executed, how many people would quickly think of him as being someone sent from God? There's a strong need for a real kind of confidence or trust there. This, of course, was one of the reasons why so many Jews just refused to believe in Jesus, put that trust in him, because if you recall in the Old Testament, it says, cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree who is crucified. And that's what Jesus was.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

I've been trying to think of the verse that was occurring to me, and I haven't been able to identify it yet. Maybe someone else can think of where it is. I'm thinking of when he said, and if I be raised up, I will draw all men to me.

Henry Jason 6:22

Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

I can't think of where it is. What he's saying is that he needs to go through this process of being obedient unto the death and being raised up by God. John 12:32.

Henry Jason 6:40

1232.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Yeah. Yes, that's it. He's foreshadowing the need there in that verse 32 of needing to go through this crucifixion and resurrection so that all men will be enabled to do the same thing inwardly. So I think that's uh what this might be what this verse is saying in 16. It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you. So that comforter is the spirit of truth that he's going to be sending to us, which is like the second birth.

Henry Jason 7:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I think he's when he's recognizing there is the need for him to go through this so that others can also go through it inwardly. He needs to go through it outwardly.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

When you're ready, I'd like to check something out about verses eight, nine, ten.

Faith As Trust In A Condemned Man

Henry Jason 7:46

Yeah, I'm just about to say something about eight. That one will come and will like expose the world regarding sin and regarding righteousness and regarding judgment, those three things. And then in nine, regarding sin on the one hand, because they do not put their trust in me, they do not believe in me, they do not have confidence in me. That is their sin. And then in ten, concerning righteousness, on the other hand, because I am going to the father, and you will no longer notice me, you will no longer see me. And in eleven, concerning judgment or an assessment, because the ruler of this world is being judged. Of course, the ruler of this world is Satan, the devil, evil.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Yeah, I found all that kind of hard to understand until I looked at the New English Bible translation. It says, um, when he comes, I will conf the advocate. He will confute the world and show where wrong and right and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong by their refusal to believe in me. He will convince them that right is on my side by showing that I go to the Father when I pass from your sight. And he will convince them of divine judgment by showing that the prince of this world stands condemned. So it's more expanded, and to me, it's easier to understand than the NRC.

Henry Jason 9:39

Yeah, I think that that is a bit easier to understand. You'd have to really understand those individual words like judgment. Talked about all these words before, may as well just put them down again. Anyone recall the word for sin? Armatia, sin, sinning, sinful latitude. Uh, what was the one? Daiosine, and that's righteousness, upright conduct, judgment in a different sense. What's upright? And then uh what was the last one? Croesus. We get our English word crisis here, and that's judgment or an assessment, that sort of thing. So those are the three. I think in explaining it in what was that the New English translation? Yeah, that does that that expands it a bit. I'm always hesitant about the New English translation. Sometimes I think they go, they stretch it a bit too far, but that seems about right, those particular verses.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Is that the same as New English Bible? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yes. It's funny that convince and convict kept showing up. It almost sounded like a Quaker Bible.

Henry Jason 10:54

In older English, convince meant to convict. The Latin word, convinco, these are all parts of the same verb in Latin. And you can see convict and convince come from the same root there. Yeah. When you're reading the word convinced in the English of the early Quakers or in the King James Version, it usually means convict. That was the basic meaning. Actually, I'm I'm not let me see what the Latin here says for sure. Yeah, convinco, convicci, convictum, that's it. So uh it means to convict. It also in Latin meant prove clearly.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

Yeah, so NRSV just uses prove, which you know, yeah, it makes sense, but it's a little harder to grasp.

Henry Jason 11:49

I've seen people really misunderstand this word convince when it's used in early modern English of the 17th century. They don't understand that that word more often meant to convict, to be found guilty of sin. That's what it meant to be convinced, most often. It began to have the modern sense of modern English convinced, but it was more often clearly to uh to convict or be convicted.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

I have a question about um the rendering of that word in a particular English translation, what's called Today's English Version, commissioned by American Bible Society, also known as the Good News Bible. Here it says he will prove to the people of the world that they were wrong about sin and wasn't right. Does prove to people, is that close enough to your understanding of what this uh uh let me let me let me just look wait let me let me think here. Sure. Elenko seems to be the verb, huh?

Henry Jason 12:55

Olenko, yeah, that's uh I uh I wanted to look at that word anyway, elenko. It's a lexei here.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Uh-huh.

Henry Jason 13:07

To expose, to bring to light, to examine carefully, to scrutinize, to bring a person to the point of recognizing wrongdoing. Okay, to express strong disapproval of someone's action to reprove, to correct, to penalize for wrongdoing, punish to discipline. It's actually has a whole series of related meanings there. So, which is the best translation then? Expose, okay. I mean, it may you know have us have several of these related senses in it, of course. I mean, even to say that that one having come will correct the world regarding sin. That one will expose the world concerning sin. That one will convict. So it looks like in English we don't have a word that just covers all of these related meanings.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

In King James, was it reprove?

Henry Jason 14:17

Reprove, yeah, that's the correct. Is that reprove in King James? I don't have that open in front of you.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

In verse 8.

Henry Jason 14:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah, reprove is in King James. Yeah. Okay, yes, it's reprove the world of sin.

Henry Jason 14:34

But I think the meaning is pretty clear there, then. Okay, let's go on. In verse 14, that one being the spirit of truth, that one will glorify me, that one will make manifest God within me, in other words, the shekinah within me. That one will make evident the presence of God in me. That's the glorify. It also has meaning, just glorify like we glorify things as well. But I'm thinking of a more Jewish understanding there, which makes sense. Anything else in these verses?

Sin Righteousness Judgment In Greek

Henry Jason 15:20

I'd like to go on then to 16.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

I guess I would like to add that this certainly accords with my experience, that the presence of the Holy Spirit speaking in my heart is what demonstrates to me Jesus' relation with the Father. It isn't so much the claims or the arguments that he made in his public ministry, it's what the truth that is revealed to me now by the work of the Holy Spirit.

Henry Jason 15:49

There's a very powerful thing you're saying here, David. It's almost hard to say, but there is truth here that that same spirit, that holy current, is the same spirit or current that is in every human being, and that it was in Jesus completely, fully, perfectly. And that's why we can follow him and be like him. William Penn would say to be a Christian is to be like Christ, and there's real truth in that.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

I also like that in these verses he doesn't draw any sharp boundaries between the Father, the Spirit of Truth, and Himself. Anybody who wants to make those into three distinct entities just has to read those verses. It's just so fluid.

Henry Jason 16:38

Yes, you get into all sorts of Trinitarian complications with a lot of this language, but it's very clear that there's different ways of saying similar things here. But when you start fighting over those meanings as to being something separate or different, then you really end up having serious theological problems. It's just the nature of language sometimes to be loose. Probably mentioned at this in this group. I kind of think of individual meanings of words as like clouds in the sky. They're very fuzzy and they can change and they move around and they they're they're not as hard as they may seem. They do become hard when you're speaking physically, like in science. Then you have to have specific, very clear, very precise words to mean very specific things. An atom is an atom and nothing else. Again, the more scientific you begin, the more rigid the meanings of words are, because you need to have that. It's not like in poetry, where words are much fuzzier, and the same thing with spiritual and religious language, they're they're fuzzier, and it's important that that's the case. You also have to remember that we're reading the Greek that this gospel was written in, but Jesus was most likely saying all of this in Aramaic. And of course, Aramaic and Greek are very different languages, so we have to take into consideration that the translators of what Jesus had said did their best for putting into the Greek what they heard and knew in the original Aramaic and Hebrew, of course.

Convince Versus Convict And “Elencho”

Henry Jason 18:23

All right, let's go on to verse 16. A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while, and you will see me. Then some of his disciples said to one another, What does he mean by saying to us, a little while, and you will no longer see me, and again a little while, and you will know and you will see me, and because I am going to the Father. They said, What does he mean by this a little while? We do not know what he is talking about. Jesus knew that they wanted to ask him, so he said to them, Are you discussing among yourselves what I meant when I said, A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while and you will see me? Very truly I tell you, you will weep and mourn, but the world will rejoice. You will have pain, but your pain will turn into joy. When a woman is in labor, she has pain because her hour has come. But when her child is born, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy of having brought a human being into the world. So you have pain now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you. On that day you will ask nothing of me. Very truly I tell you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. Any questions first?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I guess this is a comment. I'm grateful that Jesus uses this metaphor of childbirth. It's probably something that women understand viscerally even more than we men at some distance. But what it is to endure pain that may seem overwhelming and yet is productive because something good comes from it, and that joy can set in abeyance, if not wipe out the memory of the pain. I find a similar kind of testimony from a woman who is in the Sikh tradition, Mallory Cower. She puts it in the form of the question of the darkness that we are experiencing in the political order, and she says, Is it the darkness of the tomb or the darkness of the womb? That womb metaphor is of something that pushes out new life into the world. And there may be pain, and yet there is something wonderful that happens that moves us into joy.

Henry Jason 21:12

Well, the apostle Paul in Galatians chapter four uses some very similar language in saying that he is like a woman having labor pains, trying to have Christ be born in you, Galatians. You know, the spirit of Christ in everyone. I mean, having getting it out of the womb. And that's what he's struggling to do. It can just stay there and do nothing in people, but something needs to bring it out. And if a missionary, an apostle, someone can help in that process, then I'm all for that, of course. The word here, C is not the usual word for C that I'm hearing in this translation of mine. It's this one. that that means to to take notice of to be aware of it does mean C. I guess C is okay in this in this case here. Actually this word time does not occur in the Greek. It's just a little of course that means a little time here obviously and where the disciples in verse 18 are saying we do not know again that's not no that's not the no of experience this is the other word oida oida man here we do not know what he is saying. And Jesus knew that they wanted to ask him and he said to them you're inquiring you're asking among yourselves about this that I said a little time and you do not see me and again a little time and you will see me. Amen amen truly truly I say to you that you will weep you will cry and you will mourn yeah but the world will rejoice again that's the sense of the that outward worldly world you will be grieving but your grief will become joy and then it goes on when the woman is giving birth she has grief because her hour her time has come but when she gives birth to a little child she no longer remembers the affliction the pain because of the joy that anthropos a

A Little While From Grief To Joy

Henry Jason 23:44

man a human being was born into the world what does the King James say here does it use the word man yes yes it says she remembereth no more the anguish for joy than a man is born into the world right okay that makes sense and an air is the word for man but meaning a male and the plural of course is Andres we have an English word androgynous which combines the male and the female oh right right yeah androgyny in old English the word man only meant a human being and I think it was in the Middle English period like Chaucer period I believe is when it began to also just specifically mean a male but originally it was uh the meaning of anthropos languages are always changing the meanings keep shifting around moving several of the English versions translate this as either baby or child which is not gender specific. Greek had words for baby and so a cut more than one or two three words for child but um they're just trying to avoid that uh rigidity in modern English where man used to have an inclusive meaning but today most people reject it and want it to only be exclusively a male okay let me see if there's anything else in this section um verse 23 and on that day you will not ask me nothing. Greek uses double negatives you should be aware and that was educated Greek to use double negatives and you see them frequently I say to you will ask the Father in my name and he will give to you he will give it to you again in my name. I'm also assuming that means both name and the basic nature of Jesus the actual physical name of Jesus as well as the sense of it's the basic essence of something the basic nature of something so that you need to be in that same nature too as well as asking in Jesus's name. I have a question about verse 20 is weep and mourn a good translation verse 20 is where's the verb oh that's the word that means cry cry or weep that's the basic word claw let me clause oh one second what verse was that in 20 20 okay that's the future claw clozo clo I'm trying to look it up in the dictionary but I have to remember what the present tense form of that verb looks like.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

Oh there it is cloyo okay cloyo cry weep bewail yeah cry and weep okay it sounds more precise than the new english but the new english is more poignant it says plunged into grief.

Henry Jason 26:55

Wow it's the basic word for cry you often see it translated as weep in a lot of translations I don't know why they don't want to actually say Jesus cried I think this word still exists in modern Greek as well I'd have to check on that. Maybe I can check right now I'm just kind of curious for myself. Okay cry. Yeah it's the same word in modern Greek pronounced a little bit different kleo instead of cleo but uh and it means cry. So Jesus cried break out in tears I guess you can say that I believe somewhere is it in John where the shortest verse in the Bible is Jesus wept is that when he learned of Lazarus yes yeah that's the same verse but the word is cleo meaning to cry to weep and that was in verse 20.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Henry I think it's important that you stress this broader meaning of name because this helps us to connect with the basic essence of Jesus when we're praying this guards against simply invoking that sound as a magical token or something. And I think there are folks who think well if you just use that name then it's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

And there are also people who think that they're being told to just use that name and it will happen and they think that that's nonsense and they don't realize that there could be another way of understanding it.

Henry Jason 28:26

Now when you say when you see a verse in the New Testament you know what Jesus says believe in my name I don't know what that means if someone just said that verse to me and I didn't have any context. But if I look at what the Greek says you know put your confidence in my nature and my true nature what the writer of the gospel

Asking In Jesus’ Name As Nature

Henry Jason 28:46

is saying then is much clearer that you need to put your trust your belief your faith in who I am if I'm the writer of a gospel and I'm saying putting these words in Jesus' mouth to explain to the believers already as well as to new believers that we're talking about again getting back to what I was saying earlier, you know, he was a convicted criminal who was executed for his crimes of course unfairly totally but this is a huge stumbling block for was a huge stumbling block for many Jews at that time as well as for you could say law abiding Romans and Greeks of that day. You can see the stumbling block they had here how many people today would turn away if you start talking about a convicted criminal being the son of God let me just look up this word on the mind has many word many meanings in Greek but these are the meanings that we come across so often and reading the New Testament the proper name of an entity oh there's there's several pages of this a person the classification under which one belongs noted by a name or category a title a category recognition accorded a person on the basis of performance name in terms of an office held and there are all these subdivisions of this of these general headings I just read talking about three large dictionary size pages on this word name. You know this is a Greek lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature revised by Danker there's also a very good short dictionary at the end of a different Greek New Testament here. Let me get back to see your faces so I can see what I'm showing this one too which is uh in English it's the uh United Bible Society edition and they keep on coming out with revisions I think they're on their fifth revision now I've got three and four I don't have the fifth when they keep on learning more things come up in manuscripts

Figures Of Speech Love And Victory

Henry Jason 30:56

or whatever. All right let's maybe we can finish this today let's read the rest of this chapter I have said these things to you in figures of speech the hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures but will tell you plainly of the Father on that day you will ask in my name I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf for the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. You put your trust you've put you have confidence that I have come from God. I came from the Father and have come into the world again I am leaving the world and am going to the Father his disciples said yes now you are speaking plainly not in any figure of speech now we know that you know all things and do not need to have anyone question you by this we believe that you came from God. Jesus answered them Do you now believe the hour is coming indeed it has come when you will be scattered each one to his home and you will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone because the Father is with me. I have said this to you so that in me you may have peace. In the world you face persecution but take courage I have conquered the world just want to look up one word here that gets translated as figure of speech I think there are other translations for that word too does anyone anyone give me what their translations have veiled language veiled language okay it's uh from the mounts interlinear uh okay where where'd the word go here let's see paro mia paroimia a pithy saying a proverb a maxim a brief communication containing truths designed for initius a figure of speech a veiled saying in which especially lofty ideas concealed a veiled saying okay and I see there there's some uncertainty about the actual meanings of this word from what some of the biblical scholars are saying here Aroy Mia I'm not sure I trust my King James but it looks like proverb is another change yeah that's kind of one of the meanings of it Aroy Mia it's like a pithy saying or wisdom in a in a few words but it's kind of something that's not specifically that clear initially when we talk about proverbs the actual meaning might not be obvious if you take it concretely or literally good speed renders it speaking figuratively. Yeah figuratively figuratively means symbolically okay so that's what we're talking about here these phrases that have some kind of metalinguistic some symbolic meaning beyond just the ordinary symbolic usage of language yeah I think what I just said is right but I don't know if that's understood by anyone I have uh in 27 in the new revised standard version for the father himself loves you well that is the word phileo love or like the father likes you it's not agape it's just a general kind of word God the father likes you okay uh I I I just seems strange to say that but that's kind of what's being said there. I've got a translation here for the father is fond of you because you are fond of me and have believed that I came from God. Now that from is an interesting word it's not the word ordinary word from from it's the word from alongside para. So I and you believe you have trust you have confidence that I have come from alongside God Jesus now sits at the right hand of God that kind of sense the son is not the father the son of God is not God the father and that's the kind of understanding you're getting here in the next verse too when it's saying from it's from alongside actually did fond mean something different when the King James Bible was written because it doesn't really seem like a word we would want to use for how we feel about well that's actually a modern English translation under the interlinear translation I have here. I've never seen that translation for Philel. Maybe we should go look it up and see if that's a possibility or not. I don't recall it at all. It's a rather weak emotion. Yeah well that's why I just said no father likes you you know it's it's still a nice way of saying something I think I'd like to be like God the Father I mean it needs some of the alternatives it's true but yeah I know what you're saying. Okay let's see okay philosoph means have a special interest in someone or something frequently with focus on closest association have affection for like consider someone a friend and there are other meanings that aren't related here like it means to kiss yeah to like right we'll just leave it as like we have this word philosophy that's the same word the love of wisdom it's a little more energetic than liking so that's the verb but as I gave you the general meaning to have a special interest in someone or something. So if you have a special interest in wisdom that's a philosopher so have affection for like you have believed you have confidence that I am from alongside I came forth from alongside God I came from alongside the father and I have come into the world again I leave the world and I am going to the father disciples the students said see you are now talking you are now speaking plainly and no longer are speaking uh these sayings these proverbs these symbolic in speaking in symbolic language now we know that you know all things and you have no need that anyone ask you specifically in this we believe we trust that you have come forth from God Jesus answered them are you now believing I do you now have confidence you now have trust look the time is coming and it has come that each one of you will are going to be scattered into his own places things and will leave me alone indeed I am uh not alone because the father is with me I have spoken these things to you so that you will have peace in me in my spirit I guess in the world you will have affliction but take courage be cheerful cheer up oh that's it be uh cheer up I have conquered the world and that's probably the last word I want to speak about conquer is the verb conquer and the noun is nikke you all know this word and it just means victory and what Jesus is saying I have conquered I have overcome I have won out over the world over worldliness over a worldly kind of mind materialistic mind so when you see I have conquered the world or I have overcome the world I've overcome worldliness that more outward materialistic way of thinking that's out there in the world and of course he's victorious that's what he's saying because the same word in the noun form means victory Nike Nikao Nike that word overcome the world is the same idea as metanoia. Yeah that's the kind of sense it that's yeah I would agree Romans 12 too you know do not be conformed to the world but transform yourselves how by a renewing of your mind. So it's that kind of transformation out of that worldly materialistic for us a consumeristic nationalistic materialistic way of thinking a reductionist kind of thinking everything is can be reduced back to matter to the world the physical world the world of soma body or or sarx flesh that kind of fleshly carnal world and this is a completely different way of thinking that is involved in metanoia and it's a very powerful statement here that the apostle or the disciple John is saying here that again he's saying whether Jesus said this or not the clear understanding is their understanding that Jesus did completely overcome that mindset. Okay well thank you everyone and we will see you all again next week farewell everyone thanks Henry thank you everybody