Veracity, Voice, and Vulnerability with Josh Galarza

Debut author Josh Galarza talks about the importance of veracity, voice, and vulnerability in this episode, all of which are embedded into his heartfelt, hilarious, and heartbreaking debut, The Great Cool Ranch Dorito in the Sky. Let’s dig in.

Click here for the transcript.

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Transcript

00:00:01.93

katenarita

Welcome, Josh. I am so thrilled to have you here today on Chalk and Ink. I think that your book, The Great Cool Ranch Dorito and the Sky is a fabulous read. I really hope that everyone reads it and I just cannot wait to spend the next hour talking to you. So thank you so much for joining us. And I was hoping you could introduce yourself to our listeners.

00:00:25.40

Josh Galarza

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Kate. Thank you for having me. I'm so stoked to be here. um Yeah. Okay. So I am a Montessori educator um and I actually am not teaching Montessori any longer, but I started that at a really young age. I was 19 years old, um which in hindsight, cause I'm 42 now, like that feels so absurd to me, and but at the time I felt very ready and very capable. um ah So somehow I was making it through that.

00:00:52.90

Josh Galarza

Um, but yeah, I taught Montessori for about 15 years. And, uh, then I was ready for new challenges. Um, cause you know, and I'm sure we'll get into this, uh, but I started writing, you know, uh, along that time in my mid twenties. And, um, when I was ready for, for a change, I knew I wanted to go back to college and completed a degree, probably in English, thinking I might go into publishing. I thought, you know what, I'm done. I think I'm done teaching. I had a really good run.

00:01:22.58

Josh Galarza

um And I'm thinking about teaching young kids. like i used I joke around like, that's a young man's game. like I don't know if I can be sitting on the floor with children into my 50s or whatever. um And lots of people do it. But I was like, I don't know. I need to change. So anyway, um shifted into academia, shifted into a BFA in printmaking and book arts. um So i you know now i'm I'm an artist. And that would have been in my mid 30s.

00:01:51.30

Josh Galarza

and then went to grad school. So now, currently, I'm at VCU in Richmond, Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth. And I'm getting an MFA in creative writing. so you know there's And while I'm in this program, I get to teach undergrads. I get to teach intro to creative writing and ah you know ah personal essay writing type classes and things like that. So I feel really lucky that I've there's always been sort of this intertwining between my my life as an educator, my life as a student, and as any Montessoriian will tell you, we love learning. We're lifelong learners, right? So being a student is every bit as thrilling to me or satisfying um and enriching as teaching. um But you know, it's kind of the best of both worlds here at VCU, teaching, being a student. um Yeah, so, and and then as a writer, um

00:02:49.32

Josh Galarza

I primarily write young adult ah fiction. ah My first yeah book that we're going to talk about, that's Contemporary YA, and I see myself kind of living in that space as I move forward. um And, you know, a lot long time of paying my dues as a writer to get there um and to kind of finally publish this book and, it you know, kind of find the the the first right book to publish. um and And that was Dorito. so Yeah, that's who I am. um and did ah did that did that Did I cover all those bases?

00:03:23.82

katenarita

I think you did definitely. Um, so there's so much I want to talk about and I'm trying to decide where to go first. And I think, um, I'd like to dig into, I have never ah interviewed someone who is getting their MFA and teaching undergraduates at the same time. So let's, let's go there first. I think that must be a really thrilling experience. I imagine that as you're learning in your MFA program,

00:03:48.53

katenarita

that is simultaneously changing how you're teaching those undergraduates. And I was wondering if you could shed any light on that, like how have you found that?

00:03:57.94

Josh Galarza

Yeah, you're 100% right. These things are, you know, they're nourishing each other, right? The writing is nourishing my teaching. The teaching is nourishing my writing. I was just having a conversation with a good friend in the program. And I got to tell you, by the way, shout out to all of my friends in this program. It's incredibly close-knit. We have so much fun together.

00:04:23.14

Josh Galarza

I feel like at this point in my life, I have no right to be having, you know, the time of my life and all these hilarious themed parties. And we're just like, we just love being here. So for for, I guess the, you know, the point of that is that there's an incredible community surrounding me. And I love that as a writer, as a teacher, it's wonderful to have community. And I think we all need that because yeah especially on the teaching end, things can get stressful. But, um,

00:04:51.42

Josh Galarza

I was talking to this friend about how thankful I am to be teaching, especially creative writing. And a lot of and MFA programs, even if you are a teaching assistant, you may not teach creative writing. You might be teaching comp classes. But um I know as a Montessoriian and any anybody who's ever taught knows that that's how you gain your expertise. And anything is, there's this level of expertise you can maybe gain as a student.

00:05:21.78

Josh Galarza

um as ah as a doer as well, right? That's a whole other level. But then you have to teach it, you have to explain it, you have to take this thing that maybe by now you're just doing instinctively and you have to somehow pick it apart to impart it to maybe a beginner and or a classroom full of beginners. And that makes you level up so quickly. And so we were talking about how lucky we are to be in this particular program um what ah you know And what a privilege it is for anyone to get to do that, to get to teach the thing you know the creative endeavor that they're doing. It just it just raises your game so quickly. um Yeah, so I would say it it you know it also then, ah the the the the primary primary way I think it affects my writing on the positive end is, like I said, community. um you know A lot of people getting to read my drafts and and support my work.

00:06:16.55

Josh Galarza

but But maybe on on the other side of things because I love teaching. And here I thought and and I gave you my bio and here I thought it was escaping teaching. I was like, I think I'm done. Right. And it's like, no, no, no, you're not done. This is who you are. You were doing this since you were 19 years old. You are an escaping teaching dude. You're going to do that forever.

00:06:37.50

Josh Galarza

um You know, so of course, eventually, I came back around to the idea like, no, no, you're not going into like a publishing career, like on on the on the industry side, you you're going to be you're going to probably be a teacher in academia. And, you know, so so but but that love sometimes it is, you know, it takes up time and it and it's something you're funneling your creative energy into.

00:07:00.84

Josh Galarza

So it does sometimes take away from my writing. um I have to work really, really hard to prioritize my writing, which is shocking to to people when i when I say that, especially right now, right? You're launching it a career as ah as an author. um You would think, you know, everything else would fall away. And the only thing you'd want to focus on is just got to get finish that next book and, you know, just build on my successors or whatever. And and yeah, that that matters to me too.

00:07:30.93

Josh Galarza

But I just want a really balanced life. And so I find like if I can just invest as much in my teaching as my writing and also into my visual art, into my printmaking work, which has definitely taken a back seat ah in this program, being in a school program for writing. um You know, if I could have that balance, I'd be really, really happy. um I don't want my whole life to revolve around this one thing just because this one thing is a passion.

00:08:01.29

katenarita

Yeah, there's there's so much I want to go into there. So um first of all, could you give a specific example of something that you had to level up on, as you said, in order to pick it apart, in order to be able to teach it in your creative writing class? Because I think that would be really useful to listeners. I'm sure there's a ton of things, but you know what comes to mind?

00:08:24.20

Josh Galarza

Absolutely. One of the first that comes to mind is ah the elements of dramatization. um so So much of that is instinct instinctive in a writer anyway, and it's just something that develops over time as you practice. And so we're you know when I say elements of dramatization, I'm talking about like setting and characterization, um conflict, exposition. um And some of those things are pretty straightforward,

00:08:51.91

Josh Galarza

And they're not, ah there's there's so many like established ways to teach them or you know writing prompts or approaches. The one that like that fascinates me most, that excites me most is voice. And so years ago, um I was still teaching Montessori then, but um ah the community of writers I happen to be in, ah we all were taking classes from a local, legendary writing teacher, Marilee Swersick, what's her name?

00:09:21.00

Josh Galarza

And we all loved her. And when she retired, we as a community were like, oh my gosh, like, what are we going to do? You know, because we were always coming back for her classes and and that she was sort of a glue that brought us together. But we also realized, well, first of all, we still have her. She's right down the road. And also we have you know that capability. We could come together. And I, because I'd been teaching kids and because Merrily had been encouraging me in this direction, I decided to start teaching a little community ed class. So it wasn't for credit, and I certainly wasn't qualified to teach a class for credit at that time. But it was official, and it allowed me to sort of pick on these things like voice um and really try to think through, okay, here's this thing I know in my work, and I know how to sort of bring forth in my work, and I can recognize it in somebody else's work. You can recognize a strong authorial voice.

00:10:19.10

Josh Galarza

But like, how do you teach it, right? And so some of the some of these various ideas I found really, you know, concrete ways to do that. With voice, I've always found you can teach about voice and you can help a writer develop their voice, I think. um And that is a long-term process. But I still haven't figured out, like, is there a way to really, like, teach it? It's like this magical um or maybe ethereal sort of,

00:10:45.18

Josh Galarza

ah thing that is if you put together somebody's idiolect, so their particular way of speaking, which is affected by a million things in their life, right, the way we talk. So you put your idiolect with your persona or point of view, and I would say persona is very much like that's the version of ourselves we put on the page or that we develop for a character on the page. Who are they? What affects, you know, their point of view and their um you know their prejudices, their biases, their their belief system, their values, um all of that. You put those those things together and then you end up with a voice or you don't. And there's just like sort of a lack of a writer's voice, right? Cause that can happen too. And that's the moment where I'm like, but how do you help that person? um you know how do How do you develop that? So I guess, ah

00:11:39.26

Josh Galarza

<unk>ve I've talked to myself into so many circles that I'm forgetting being, oh, the initial question was like, what's just an example of something that, you know, you just know better, right?

00:11:47.25

katenarita

Yeah.

00:11:48.42

Josh Galarza

Yeah. And really that is, I just feel like I remember, okay, so my first semester teaching here, I was like, u oh, you're doing an a personal essay kind of class. You're going to need to talk about voice.

00:11:59.49

Josh Galarza

And years ago in that community ed class, I had done some workshops trying to do it. And it wasn't quite like I was like, I don't know, i maybe I'm not there yet as an educator. I haven't figured it out. But I was so proud of this this last year when I had this class um at VCU where this formula that I just described, this idiolect plus persona equals voice, I thought, am I a mathematician? I can barely count to 10. If I don't have my Montessori golden bead system in front of me, I can't do multiplication.

00:12:35.61

Josh Galarza

And yet here I am, I created an equation and I, and I, and I kept trying to pick it apart, right? And tried to like undermine it. And I was like, I don't, I don't think I can. I think I figured it out. And again, not, not how to teach a voice, but at least how to understand where it comes from, how it works or why. And that is helpful for any student trying to develop their voice, right? And and if you can think about what are all of the things that, um,

00:13:03.97

Josh Galarza

uh, contribute to my idiolect that particular way I talk, what are all of these various social and cultural things contributing to my persona, who I present to, and you know, to the world as who I am in the world. Um, just thinking about those things and writing to those things and experimenting with those things. I do think that can help you really develop your writer's voice. So yeah, there's an example of that.

00:13:31.80

katenarita

Well, I think that's amazing because I have been writing, let's see, my for 20 years, my younger son is 21. so And I can't tell you how many conferences and how many classes and I have an MFA, whatever, I have gone to, people say, you can't teach voice.

00:13:45.41

Josh Galarza

okay ah I agree.

00:13:46.69

katenarita

Either have it or you don't have it. And I think that's really disheartening for people to hear. um And so I, it's just like, you know, and so here you are saying, well, hey, you know, try this.

00:13:57.37

katenarita

And it's honestly, that's the first time I've ever heard someone try and explain how, how do you have a voice, you know? And so I think that's really important because

00:14:05.37

Josh Galarza

really Right, yeah.

00:14:07.53

katenarita

We all have a voice. We all have one. so

00:14:11.41

Josh Galarza

in so much of educating is in writing or any endeavors, educating ourselves, right? So if we are empowered with even just this, this knowledge of like, okay, what components make up our voice? um You may be someone who shows up to, you know, or your very first writers class ever,

00:14:31.67

Josh Galarza

And you may worry, like, do you know, do I have a voice or it appears I, you know, I'm not that person who's being lauded because look at that voice, you know, that student will probably be, be lauded by, by peers and whatever.

00:14:39.85

katenarita

Yeah.

00:14:44.63

Josh Galarza

But it, it's like, maybe it isn't there on day one, but it's hiding under that surface, right? Like you, you can have the tools to start to bring it up to the forefront.

00:14:55.08

katenarita

Yeah. i i Like I said, there's so much I have to say and we only have an hour. I have to i have to say something.

00:15:00.93

Josh Galarza

yeah

00:15:00.97

katenarita

I have to compliment you again. So a couple of things. So I laughed out loud when I was listening to your indie introduced interview, because you said the title, The Great Cool Ranch Dorito in the Sky was a title that you can imagine someone walking to a bookstore and having to pick it up.

00:15:15.65

katenarita

And that is exactly what happened to me. I had no idea about you or your book, I was in Bose in Montana on August 2nd. I walked into the country bookshelf and I saw The Great Cool Ranch Dorito in the Sky and I said I bet that's a book about Disordered eating and I picked it up and sure enough Yeah, really really now that's because I am recovered disordered eater myself, right?

00:15:30.94

Josh Galarza

ah Really? Wow.

00:15:36.63

katenarita

So maybe someone who wasn't wouldn't have that insight

00:15:37.10

Josh Galarza

Yeah.

00:15:39.92

katenarita

but I saw that and I was like, oh my gosh, I picked it up. And then when I was listening to your, I read the book, when I was listening to your interview, um you talked about how you had considered

00:15:47.30

Josh Galarza

the

00:15:51.83

katenarita

just having Brett be white and not having the mestiza part. And your friend said, how could you do such a disservice to yourself? And honestly, that is something I struggle with all the time.

00:15:59.43

Josh Galarza

Yeah.

00:16:02.45

katenarita

My paternal grandfather is was Mexican, right?

00:16:02.73

Josh Galarza

Mm-hmm.

00:16:05.47

katenarita

And that's a lot of things.

00:16:05.61

Josh Galarza

Mm-hmm.

00:16:06.39

katenarita

A lot of people don't know that about me. And I think it's just, it seems like

00:16:11.16

Josh Galarza

up

00:16:12.53

katenarita

you know you you talked about in an an interview like it seems like how do I make a character so complex wouldn't it be easier just to not include that part but I think that goes along with the voice right because you were just talking about like that persona that you present like what are all the aspects of that persona that you present to other people and if you're not presenting all of yourself maybe your full voice isn't coming out

00:16:36.69

Josh Galarza

exactly like so many of us code switch and we're taught to do that at a young age for a lot of reasons, right? Like in my case, that might've been ah being gay in the nineties, wasn't always safe or comfortable, um you know, being a person of color in sometimes we're dominantly white spaces, or even if it's just someone like me too.

00:16:43.60

katenarita

Yeah.

00:16:58.98

Josh Galarza

And it sounds like maybe you experienced some of this where when you're in the diaspora ah in some way, there's, there's, this sense of like, I have i have a connection to cultures that also don't even feel like my own daily experience, and and how do I parse through all of these parts of myself?

00:17:14.66

katenarita

yet Yep. Yep.

00:17:17.40

Josh Galarza

But I was thinking so much about how valuable it is to show up as our full selves in the world, and and the the the various ways that in my life outside of you know writing Brett and trying to create my, you know or reflect my full self within him,

00:17:35.49

Josh Galarza

Um, I'm thinking about, uh, even, even in teaching, right? Like we, we show up to, uh, colloquium, which is, you know, basically this, this sort of practicum, very fun and formal practicum get together with really, um, experienced professors. So those of us who are, yeah you know, assistance. And, uh, this came up where like, I I'm lucky I'm, you know, a little older. So when I walk into a college classroom,

00:18:02.05

Josh Galarza

I have that authority right away, right? That's a privilege of my age. um And as long as I don't you know sort of undermine my own authority, then then I don't fear that.

00:18:10.59

katenarita

Yeah.

00:18:12.38

Josh Galarza

But a lot of my peers do. A lot of them are in their mid 20s. And and there sometimes they don't want to even tell people or their students that they're a grad student because they're afraid that like what if but if these students don't respect me, right?

00:18:26.54

Josh Galarza

um But i keep I keep thinking, no, I don't think that's the right approach. I think the right approach is, Talk to them about how did you end up in this classroom right now? Because first of all, if you want to talk about authority, imagine the the many, many, literally hundreds of applicants ah you know ah every year who are trying to get into programs like this and to be funded and to be you know a teaching assistant who don't make that cut, right?

00:18:54.43

Josh Galarza

You made that cut.

00:18:56.02

katenarita

Right.

00:18:56.14

Josh Galarza

you you You do have a certain level of expertise, even if you're not an experienced teacher. um And so, you know, but, but just to be who you are and show them where you are in your path. Like I'm never afraid to say to my students exactly where I am on my path and where I hope to go and how this class is helping me get there because that's helping them think too about like, why am I sitting in this room? What is this moment on my path and and how is it helping me get there? So I think there's value in the way we connect with other people by being like open and honest and being all of who we are.

00:19:30.35

Josh Galarza

And then ultimately too, one of the the things I came to with Brett and and making him mestizo as well was like, um you know, there was, yeah, like I, like I'd said in that interview, maybe this fear that will this, you know, especially dealing with disordered eating already, that's a lot to unpack. But if you bring ethnicity and race into it, I can't just make him Brown. And like, it's no big thing. And I mean, I i guess I could do that. But I, as a person who is Brown in the world,

00:19:59.80

Josh Galarza

um I know that it's not that simple. That's not my life experience and it hasn't been that simple for me. So I knew that just meant more work in within the story and more challenges for him. And yeah, but what I ultimately found was this isn't over complicating his life. It's making him all the more authentic, all the more real, and it's making the story richer in ways that kind of like blew my own mind.

00:20:26.33

Josh Galarza

um As you can imagine, you know this book, you've read it. So it's like, it's a very emotional book. And it was very emotional to write. I was very much in my feelings as I was writing a lot. And the very last scene I wrote for it was, and this is like, you know, we're well into the process, you know, of working with my editor by then. And and we were looking for a way to kind of bring his friend group all back together towards the end of the book. And that's where the Dia de los Muertos scene came from.

00:20:54.97

Josh Galarza

And, you know, all of these stars aligned and it suddenly hit me where I was like, oh, wait, we're in Tucson. Dia de los Muertos is like kind of the biggest festival of the year. Look at where the book is falling on the calendar.

00:21:06.22

Josh Galarza

Dia de los Muertos would be kind of happening right at the end of this story. um Look at all the thematic threads that this brings together, like the universe just sort of dropping this gift in your lap.

00:21:17.00

katenarita

Yeah.

00:21:17.24

Josh Galarza

But if I hadn't been ready to sort of embrace ah my own ethnicity and and then, you know, really try to put that work in into Brett's character. I don't think, you know, I wouldn't have got that scene, which in what I was getting to with the emotional part was like absolutely destroying me emotionally in a really, really good way.

00:21:36.85

katenarita

Yeah.

00:21:37.04

Josh Galarza

um Writing it was just so powerful for me. And I just thought, I can't believe I got to write this scene right now. And I can't believe how much I love these characters who have all been living with me for literal years at that point.

00:21:50.99

Josh Galarza

But like i got I can't believe I got to come back and like spend another day with them creating this incredible moment for them. It was powerful.

00:22:00.04

katenarita

Well, I'm Thierry, you got to do that because you were honest and vulnerable and you did the work. And that's why you got to do it.

00:22:05.61

Josh Galarza

Right.

00:22:06.91

katenarita

you know Had you not been honest and vulnerable, that scene wouldn't have come to you.

00:22:07.29

Josh Galarza

you

00:22:11.57

katenarita

So yeah, it's a gift from the universe, but it doesn't doesn't come from you know out of the blue. It comes because you did the work. And I'd love to talk more about this. um Have you read How to Be a racist ah how to be an Anti-Racist by Ibram Pendi?

00:22:25.53

Josh Galarza

No.

00:22:26.28

katenarita

Okay, so it's it's it's not fiction. you know um It's about how to be an anti-racist.

00:22:29.40

Josh Galarza

Mm hmm.

00:22:31.59

katenarita

But I really felt like your book pairs so well with that.

00:22:33.86

Josh Galarza

Mm hmm.

00:22:36.14

katenarita

because um and And Mallory's character in particular, actually, because you know he talks about you know all the isms. like you know homophobia, racism, sexism, able-bodiedism, any kind of ism all falls underneath patriarchy.

00:22:55.28

katenarita

And you talk about that in your book.

00:22:55.95

Josh Galarza

Yeah.

00:22:57.56

katenarita

And I was wondering, too, if if you were working underneath that umbrella at all when you were writing, because it seems like it when you read it you know from the reader's perspective.

00:23:09.12

Josh Galarza

Yes. Right. A hundred percent. And this goes back to your question about the way that, you know, being an educator affects our writing or vice versa. And and for me, that also is sort of tied into being a student.

00:23:22.73

Josh Galarza

So coming back to college in your mid thirties, you really do think you're like a grown up who's fully formed and you, for you know, you're self actualized. And I discovered I, that was absolutely not the case. That was not true. I had so much more growing and learning to do. And part of that, you know, and I imagine we'll get into it had to do with, uh, you know, having suffered from an eating disorder for so many years. And it wasn't until I came back to college in my thirties where I started to finally address that in treatment. But, um,

00:23:52.08

Josh Galarza

I was also having suddenly in these classes that were, you know, I was exposed to readings that were blowing my mind and making me think differently about myself and my place in the world. When you sort of just live in your little small town, the way that I had done, you know, throughout my life, um, I had all of these values within me anyway, but I don't think I understood them or the way that the systems were working in the world around me.

00:24:22.44

Josh Galarza

and in the way that I do now, right? So as I'm as i'm in treatment working on myself to to a degree that was really, really challenging.

00:24:29.71

katenarita

So.

00:24:32.45

Josh Galarza

um Also, you you you walk out of your therapist's office, have a nice cry by beautiful Manzanita Lake and like people jogging by, right? It's college, right? Some students jogging by and you're just sitting there on the bench crying after your therapy session.

00:24:46.11

Josh Galarza

And like, it's like nothing. They're like, yeah, it's college. We get it, right? like or they're running and crying and you're sitting and crying but it's like somebody I just I just had so many moments of irony like oh my gosh like we're all just in college right now um but anyway so you're doing that you're showing up to these really challenging like critical theory classes um and I remember ours like it was a requirement for English majors the intro to to you know theory and criticism And I've gone down a lot of that, that ah you know, I do a lot of that work now, so it's not, you know, jarring. But at that time, it was like, oh my gosh, everybody's crying in the hallway afraid they're going to lose their 4.0. That was that hard kind of class. But the readings were just mind blowing to me. And one of them was Gloria Anzaldua. I was introduced to her. um That was the first time in my life, so I'm in my 30s, that I even knew the word mestiza or mestiza.

00:25:42.04

Josh Galarza

um and You know, so you're starting to make all these connections between white supremacy, patriarchy and capitalism. And how are those affecting the way that I view myself in the world and how I fit in, how I belong, what I'm trying to achieve. All of this stuff is, you know, ah you're recognizing so much of what's driving you is the ways you've been conditioned and the ways you've been policed. And so I'm writing this book at the same time because I've got to turn in pages in my writing classes. Um, and I guess if I'm going to finally deal with my eating disorder, guess I'm ready to write about it at long last, right? Um, so yeah, like I think if it, if it seems like, uh, I'm, I'm somebody who was very much living that life as you know sort of the academic researcher in, in areas of, um,

00:26:37.01

Josh Galarza

ah diversity, equity, and inclusion, it was very true.

00:26:41.89

katenarita

Yeah.

00:26:41.98

Josh Galarza

And from that moment on, it's never really ended, right? Because as I move forward in college, now I'm like, you know, one of the committee members here at VCU on the diversity, equity, and inclusion committee.

00:26:45.03

katenarita

yeah

00:26:52.68

Josh Galarza

And I just think these values, especially the the feminist values, the anti-racist values, um all of those values are actually what are helping to shape my writer's practice and my artist practice.

00:27:05.90

Josh Galarza

um Because, you know, you could you so often beginning artists, beginning writers, you're going in a lot of different directions. And in that a little of that is I don't know who I am yet. And then you have an experience like I had where where you're doing an incredible amount of work on yourself. And you're leveling up and raising your consciousness and in mind-blowing ways. ah And then you start to really know who you are and really know why you're doing what you're doing and what you want to infuse into the work.

00:27:36.13

Josh Galarza

um Rather than just, well, I want to be entertaining. I want people to enjoy the book.

00:27:40.51

katenarita

Yeah, right.

00:27:42.27

Josh Galarza

But it's like, no, I actually think there's an opportunity here to plant seeds in the minds of, you know, readers to to start to think differently about themselves and their place in the world and and the way that they are perceived.

00:27:57.84

katenarita

I think you totally did that and I'm getting very excited. So did you write the great Cool Ranch Dorito in the sky while you were in your MFA program?

00:28:07.47

Josh Galarza

Okay, no, this is wild. So this was and in undergrad, actually. So mid thirties, decided to go back to college, right? So that would have been the University of Nevada, Reno.

00:28:19.95

Josh Galarza

And this isn't long ago. This was, you know, 2817 is when I started there. And I had just sort of like, pushed a few manuscripts aside that weren't going to make it, you know, there was

00:28:32.38

katenarita

Yeah.

00:28:32.85

Josh Galarza

There was a little bit of efforts there, but i I was like, I don't know if I'm even meant to write anymore. Maybe I should work behind the scenes in publishing. I just don't know. Because the writing wasn't making sense.

00:28:43.06

Josh Galarza

It wasn't coming together for me in a way that I felt I'm so proud of this manuscript and I really believe in it and I know it's going to succeed.

00:28:49.43

katenarita

Yeah. yeah

00:28:51.50

Josh Galarza

And so, yeah, going back to college, that was that was for my BA in English and BFA in printmaking in book arts. um And then immediately after that, I graduated in 2021. I had a gap year and then came to VCU for my master's or my MFA.

00:29:12.23

katenarita

Okay. But so tell me more. I want to dig more into the, your writing process for the great cool ranch to read on the sky. So tell me about that. How were you writing that and going to class? What, what did that look like? Because the book is outstanding. It's phenomenal. And I really want to understand how you got there.

00:29:26.80

Josh Galarza

Thanks, yeah. so um Yeah, I do think it's surprising sometimes coming into a master's program at MFA and you know already having an agent, the book deal went down in my first semester here.

00:29:40.48

Josh Galarza

So it was sort of like, oh, whoa, like this guy's a little further along.

00:29:40.53

katenarita

Okay.

00:29:43.94

Josh Galarza

And I just like to tell people, no, I'm just a little older than than most of my peers. I've just been at it longer and paying my dues longer, right? But yeah, writing process-wise, ah I think a lot of undergrads may aspire to write a novel, but I was just in a place at that time in my life where I was doing undergrad at the same time, like I was old enough and experienced enough and had written full manuscripts before. And so, you know, it it it was more realistic to think the the work I was doing, the novel I was writing in those, you know, college workshop classes,

00:30:21.01

Josh Galarza

um that it that it might actually come to completion, right? um But yeah, the writing process was so weird because I had sort of, as I said, I i almost felt like i'm I'm ready to give up.

00:30:33.48

Josh Galarza

I don't think I'm meant to be a writer. Something's not right.

00:30:37.08

katenarita

Yeah.

00:30:37.21

Josh Galarza

But it wasn't the writing, it was me. The thing that changed for me was, you know, going into treatment, and I had a great treatment team at the university who,

00:30:48.15

Josh Galarza

really held me accountable and were really invested in me. And I couldn't be more grateful because, you know, as, as, you know, as a lot of people know, who, who know about, uh, eating disorders and the struggle, uh, to get treatment and to be able to pay for treatment, especially in a longterm situation is extremely difficult, right?

00:31:08.42

Josh Galarza

There's a lot of financial barriers or, or, you know, and socioeconomic barriers.

00:31:08.64

katenarita

Yeah.

00:31:13.63

Josh Galarza

And I was just in this environment where they saw like immediately when I walked into counseling services the first time, um, and sort of explained like, I think I might need some help. Um, immediately saw what was going on with me and just invested in, and we're like, we're gonna see you through this, which ended up being maybe two and a half to three years of time working with them while I was, you know, as, while I was a student there. Um, so yeah, I, I,

00:31:42.01

Josh Galarza

because I'm a student and because I was in in an art program as well, my time, you know, my very spread, very thin, I was spread very thin.

00:31:52.74

Josh Galarza

And so the book was getting written only because I had due dates for pages in my writers workshops.

00:32:00.21

katenarita

That's amazing.

00:32:01.59

Josh Galarza

Yeah, like, I'd be like, well, okay, literally, what's the next thing that has to get done ah for you to be a success in college, right? And it was like, Okay, like I have paid I have a workshop.

00:32:12.49

Josh Galarza

I have pages do in my workshop ah twice a semester You know in but I but I make the most out of those so some students right if you're given like ah you're allowed to have this many pages or that many pages You know, they might they might go for the minimum and and that may be perfectly Valid, right?

00:32:28.82

Josh Galarza

It's just like I have a smaller piece.

00:32:29.90

katenarita

sure

00:32:30.70

Josh Galarza

I'm i'm writing whatever shorter piece but for me as a novelist I was like if you are allowed 30 pages and

00:32:32.08

katenarita

Yeah.

00:32:37.08

Josh Galarza

you're going to slide in there at 31 and hope that you don't get called out on it.

00:32:39.10

katenarita

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You can't waste.

00:32:42.68

Josh Galarza

so i

00:32:42.79

katenarita

You can't waste any space for feedback. No.

00:32:46.03

Josh Galarza

Right. Because what a privilege and what a gift it is to have feedback at that level from that many readers. And and I had such an incredible cohort of undergrads that were in that, you know, at that time at UNR with me and a lot of us taking classes together from semester to semester.

00:33:03.08

Josh Galarza

really good friendships and people being really invested in this story. So they were kind of like, you know, as we were going from class to class and it's like, oh, yeah, I've got some more Dorito coming next week, you know. um But I would I would do this thing where i'd I'd find the time in between classes on campus, in between working on campus, whatever, um because I worked as the printmaking lab tech.

00:33:25.69

Josh Galarza

um So, you know, just where you find the time or you just are like I'm in the zone and I'm gonna stay up till 3 a.m. Writing that is not healthy at my age or ever but okay, I guess I'm gonna do it And I'm still like that I still to this day the way that i I write is very like it doesn't feel like here's my professional writing time that I set aside it's more like oh, it's 9 p.m.

00:33:32.80

katenarita

Sure.

00:33:50.48

Josh Galarza

And that it I've got the inspiration or It's 9 PM and I and I have pages due for workshop. um So that external motivation was really helpful.

00:34:48.27

katenarita

Okay, so you would get this inspiration at nine o'clock at night and you just write.

00:34:50.63

Josh Galarza

of me

00:34:54.37

Josh Galarza

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the inspiration would hit, it'd be nine o'clock at night and you're like, okay, I guess I'm like going to strap in and be just be writing and until, until three or whatever it takes. And, um, when I get in the zone like that, I actually am the most productive. So I would have these, uh, and I still write like that to this day in this program, even I'm never very professional about like, here's my,

00:35:18.06

Josh Galarza

I always write from 6 a.m. to 9, and then I go to the campus and I teach and whatever. i don't I wish I could do that, but it's just not my way. It's more spontaneous. And it's also more of like an externally motivated thing where it's like, oh gosh, okay, the deadline is here. And shockingly, I'm able to get a lot done that way, right? So I can i can pump out like three chapters out of nowhere, having been nothing for two months or something. um And that is kind of in hindsight remarkable, like it felt like a magic trick to actually get this book written or to write anything feels like magic.

00:35:55.34

katenarita

Yeah. So I just quickly looked back at the book. So your book is about 300 pages. So i'm'm I'm just very curious here. Did you really literally write that over to like two semesters and like 30 page chunks? Is that how you wrote it?

00:36:09.28

Josh Galarza

No, I'd say it was over the course of maybe three three years altogether.

00:36:16.45

katenarita

Okay.

00:36:16.91

Josh Galarza

Um, two and a half to three years worth. Um, you know, so sometimes in there where your classes fell, maybe I didn't have a workshop. Um, but yeah, I started, I started with a little short story, uh, uh, that yeah eventually grew into this book and the short story happened in, I think 2018. And then that following semester, um, I just was like, Oh, I'm writing a book again. Okay, cool. Here I am. Let's do it. Um, but yeah, I would say it took.

00:36:46.47

Josh Galarza

ah probably all of my junior or or sophomore and junior ah years. And then senior year, I was focusing on my BFA thesis primarily um and actually let the book just sit, which seems wild to people too. Like, wait, what? Your book was basically done and you weren't, you know, polishing it up and sending it out. I was like, no, no, I had i had other other priorities there too. And I think that's healthy. You know, it was kind of neat to be at a point in my life where for the first time ever I didn't feel sort of desperate for the validation that that you might be looking for.

00:37:21.10

Josh Galarza

And I felt I can focus on finishing my art degree, and then I will start, you know, polish and start querying agents. um and And compared to those older manuscripts, what I found remarkable was for the first time ever, I was so confident.

00:37:37.41

Josh Galarza

I knew I was going to sign with an agent, and that was kind of cool.

00:37:40.04

katenarita

Oh yeah, it's yeah, it's outstanding. So were you in treatment at the same time you were writing ah Cool Ranch Dorito?

00:37:49.54

Josh Galarza

Exactly.

00:37:50.08

katenarita

Yeah.

00:37:50.14

Josh Galarza

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there would be times where I'd leave my point with my doctor or my dietician or something with this incredible insight and I'd go write it directly into the book or I would go and like write it into my notebook and be like, I'm not there yet.

00:38:02.29

katenarita

Yeah.

00:38:06.07

Josh Galarza

But when we get to chapter, you know, 36, uh, they'll go wherever, right? There'll be an opportunity to put this incredible insight in.

00:38:12.08

katenarita

Right.

00:38:15.15

Josh Galarza

So I was very much living. the life that I was imagining for Brett, um ah like what could, you know, could, one of my big questions early on, cause I didn't know the answer is, can a person heal from an eating disorder?

00:38:19.86

katenarita

Yeah.

00:38:28.02

Josh Galarza

Like, is that even possible? Cause initially I was just trying to like function better. It had finally, after years of orthorexia, it had morphed into bulimia for me. So I was like, I just need to get this under control.

00:38:39.80

Josh Galarza

I'm starting to be afraid. But I don't think I understood you could actually heal all the way. That's not going to be easy, but you could do that. And so it was so profound, the things I was learning and treatment that it was helping me see, not just, uh, you know, project out towards the end of the book and where this story was going to end, but like further into Brett's life in his future and what he could achieve or like, you know, what was possible for him. Cause I was,

00:39:08.22

Josh Galarza

I was doing it, right? And I could feel myself succeeding in treatment and that was thrilling.

00:39:09.60

katenarita

Yeah.

00:39:12.89

Josh Galarza

Uh, and, and just, it's such a, such a boost to my confidence, which as you can imagine, you know, you're, yeah I was very much at a rock bottom place when, when I came back to college and went into treatment college to me was sort of this last ditch effort almost like I just want to give up on life and myself.

00:39:21.89

katenarita

Yeah.

00:39:31.56

Josh Galarza

Cause I'm, you know, I'm so sick. I couldn't have articulated it that way. But at that time I was so ill.

00:39:35.25

katenarita

Sure.

00:39:37.67

Josh Galarza

And, you know, but it was like, but I can start over maybe, I have this opportunity in college. And that opportunity came with the the opportunity for treatment. And so, yeah, treatment, consciousness raising in college, writing the book, it's all happening at exactly the same time. And it's all intertwined in my memory, right? It's like, I don't know, ah you know, it's ah I don't know exactly how, like if you were trying to map it out,

00:40:05.56

katenarita

Sure, sure.

00:40:05.98

Josh Galarza

ah my my path in treatment versus like where what I was in the book at any given time. But it was this whole big mess of create creative energy, which was healing, right?

00:40:16.15

Josh Galarza

The creative work was really healing while I was in treatment and in this more like, I don't know, like there's this formal thing happening in treatment for healing.

00:40:16.42

katenarita

Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:25.59

Josh Galarza

And then this really creative cathartic thing happening the minute I leave my therapist's office. I'm i'm just tapping away.

00:40:33.86

katenarita

Yeah. Well, i think I think you feel that in the book. You just you feel all that energy and all that transformation you know happening in the book. And so i'm i'm I'm not surprised to see like that's how it played out, but I i was wondering, you know it just it's it's such an incredible like rebirth story in the book, I feel.

00:40:52.84

katenarita

So just just amazing. um You're so lucky that you were able to get that treatment that your that your college provided that for you. um i've I have never heard that. And so I think that's phenomenal.

00:41:04.08

katenarita

And I hope it fills me with a lot of hope that maybe things have really changed, you know that treatment is available for people.

00:41:10.47

Josh Galarza

Yeah, I agree with you because. Yeah, like I didn't know how lucky I was in the beginning. I could feel I felt lucky. I was like, I feel like I feel like I'm on a whole new path and these people are rewiring my brain.

00:41:22.67

katenarita

Yeah.

00:41:24.59

Josh Galarza

And, i you know, I really believed that I, you know, like I was grateful, but I don't think I understood that like the sort of what is the bigger picture landscape look like for treatment for disordered eating?

00:41:36.28

Josh Galarza

And so I didn't I think I didn't realize what I was getting was actually unique.

00:41:36.50

katenarita

yeah Yeah, it is.

00:41:40.36

Josh Galarza

And it was even by university standards, because while a lot of them are trying to to implement better standards of care and better treatment, um they're you know they're limited to by by resources and you know the amount of staff they might have or people in the program.

00:41:55.62

katenarita

Sure.

00:41:58.91

Josh Galarza

And I think in my case, I can't say for sure. I don't want to speak for my treatment team, my doctor, my therapist, whatever, who I still to this day, I just think of so fondly I adore them.

00:42:10.88

Josh Galarza

But what I suspect is they saw a person who was so desperate to change and so ready to change. I was so sick of harming myself and being ill. And I think they recognized that if we um if we just give him the opportunity, he's gonna go all the way, right?

00:42:32.15

Josh Galarza

like he's you know I was so dedicated to it. And I think that that inspired dedication to me.

00:42:35.58

katenarita

Yeah.

00:42:38.07

Josh Galarza

because i kept And I would even ask my doctor sometimes, like I know you probably have a lot of students who need you know need help. Are you sure I should keep coming or whatever? And she kept telling me, you'll know when you don't need to come in anymore.

00:42:49.67

katenarita

Yeah.

00:42:50.85

Josh Galarza

You'll you'll know that. And I didn't believe her. um But she was right because I did know.

00:42:55.41

katenarita

yeah

00:42:56.44

Josh Galarza

It was maybe like a like six months a year later, I was like, I actually get it. I get what she was saying. i I do recognize that I'm ready now. And that's a little scary. And it's also a little sad because this has been so transformative.

00:43:10.34

Josh Galarza

ah And I love, you know, working with these incredible people who are invested in me. Um, but I am, I am ready and it, and you know, it is it is that time. So I, you know, that's when I was transitioning out of treatment. Um, but yeah, to I can't even imagine, I don't know, tens of thousands of dollars worth of attention. Um, or at least that's what it would equate to in a different situation. And so I just was so lucky to work with them and that was all, you know, uh, uh,

00:43:39.75

Josh Galarza

outpatient very you know is like yeah and visits with my doctor every couple of weeks, visits with my therapist every couple of weeks, a dietician. you know So those were appointments, and I was very much doing the work.

00:43:53.32

Josh Galarza

ah you know It wasn't like a residential situation.

00:43:53.28

katenarita

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm so grateful to them and to you because without that, this book wouldn't exist. And I just think this that your book is going to help so many people begin a healing process.

00:44:06.86

katenarita

um One thing that I think you did, and you're welcome.

00:44:08.43

Josh Galarza

Yeah, thank you.

00:44:10.85

katenarita

One thing I think you did an outstanding job in in the book is also showing that eating disorders look very different um among people. and i I'm so grateful for that because I think that um our society, because of you know the patriarchism that we've talked about doesn't recognize that, right?

00:44:30.58

katenarita

Our society sees someone who we perceive to be fit or whatever it is that you want to say, and we think, oh, that person is happy and healthy and doesn't have issues. And um you know you have a character in your book that shows that, in fact, that's not the case.

00:44:44.07

katenarita

um And so I think that you just did an outstanding job, too, showing that you cannot look at someone and know whether or not they have an eating disorder.

00:44:44.63

Josh Galarza

again

00:44:54.83

Josh Galarza

Yeah, yeah, this is a big aspect of it for me is like if I you know, so in the late 90s, when I was a teenager, and and that's when my eating disorder took hold, I didn't know what was happening. I had no clue, right? And of course, binge disorder wasn't even, you know, a diagnosis back then. um But for me, I think there was some binging and it was very quickly morphing into like this extreme healthism and restriction of orthorexia. But of course, binge and restrict go together. And that was a big part of my my process for

00:45:27.58

Josh Galarza

years within the disorder was the binge restrict cycle. um But because it wasn't bulimia, because it wasn't anorexia, which were very much a big part of pop culture at that time. And you know you think about heroin chic, you think about you know just how you know sort of it was expected almost of girls to to have you know some sort of disordered eating behaviors, if not you know a fully diagnosable disorder. um All of that culturally was about young white women and girls, right? And so, yeah, there was no way I was going to see that my own behaviors, which of course, especially I was starting to frame as, you know, look how healthy I am. I just love the gym and I love to work out and I love to eat clean and, you know, all of these things that the orthorexic might do. um I could, i you know, there's no way I could see it for what it was.

00:46:22.23

Josh Galarza

And part of that is about how, you know, patriarchy does condition boys and men and the roles, you know, that they're trying to push us into. And this part of that conditioning process is about sort of removing the man's, the boy's intuition.

00:46:40.66

Josh Galarza

um You can sense that something is off, but there's a lot of like

00:46:41.52

katenarita

Hmm.

00:46:48.03

Josh Galarza

We're just ignoring anything that's uncomfortable. ah we're not If I'm afraid or if I'm you know if i'm feeling um ah scared about something or uncomfortable, I just have to avoid it.

00:46:51.25

katenarita

Yeah.

00:47:00.24

Josh Galarza

And I just have to soldier on. and you know Or again, we're framing these things in in a positive light so often, right? um We moralize bodies, too.

00:47:11.17

Josh Galarza

So a thin body is is a moral body. And you know like a fat body is immoral or bad. um And that is incredibly rooted in racism, too, right? um Very much started in, you know, sort of hatred towards Black bodies and Black people, um ah especially.

00:47:22.45

katenarita

yeah

00:47:28.02

katenarita

Yeah.

00:47:29.09

Josh Galarza

So, yeah, it now, of course, that I am so well aware of all of this stuff, it blows my mind when I think back. And I think if only I had under understood then how different might my life have been for these those past 20 years but you know that I was ill.

00:47:45.78

katenarita

Right. Right.

00:47:46.24

Josh Galarza

And that's one of the reasons this story felt important to me was like, I wanted people to think about, first of all, yeah, you can't tell, right? Like by looking at someone, what's going on, eating disorders don't discriminate in that way.

00:47:57.06

katenarita

No.

00:48:00.00

katenarita

No.

00:48:00.25

Josh Galarza

um But also like, what could we could we open up conversations, avenues of conversation around this?

00:48:05.38

katenarita

That's right.

00:48:07.02

Josh Galarza

And especially for boys who just, ah girls have some of that, there's you know there's some media like you know sort of pushed in their direction, but

00:48:07.14

katenarita

That's right.

00:48:15.73

Josh Galarza

There's almost, almost nothing for boys. And that is, in my mind, a real travesty and really causing a great deal of harm. And, you know, I think then then the other thing I was thinking about beyond can we open up conversations about food and our bodies and our experiences in them, but also um can we have some conversations about how we view other people's bodies, how we view women's bodies and girls bodies and how we're

00:48:43.41

katenarita

Yeah.

00:48:45.50

Josh Galarza

again, sort of conditioned and expected, at least straight boys, right, to to to look at that girls and women in particular ways that are not productive.

00:48:55.41

katenarita

No. No. Have you read all of me by Chris Barron?

00:49:03.13

Josh Galarza

No.

00:49:04.20

katenarita

Okay, so it's a middle grade novel ah about um a boy who has an eating disorder.

00:49:07.52

Josh Galarza

Mm-hmm.

00:49:09.70

katenarita

And so I think that that book pairs really well. I mean, it's it's slated for a younger reader, but again, just opening up that conversation.

00:49:17.67

Josh Galarza

Mm hmm.

00:49:18.55

katenarita

you know So your book can open it up at a high school level. you know His book opens it up at a middle grade level.

00:49:22.56

Josh Galarza

Yes.

00:49:23.80

katenarita

And I think it's really important for people to know those books are out there. And I think every classroom should have them because that may be the only chance.

00:49:28.38

Josh Galarza

Yeah. Yeah, because I didn't know.

00:49:31.86

katenarita

Yeah, it may be the only chance.

00:49:32.51

Josh Galarza

Mm hmm. And yeah, I live, I live, I legit was like, am I the only one even writing about this?

00:49:38.59

katenarita

Right.

00:49:39.64

Josh Galarza

That's what I thought when I started. And also, I can even go further than that. When I went into treatment, it was like, am I the only man who experiences this stuff? Like the loneliness you feel, the isolation you feel, it's it's insane.

00:49:51.01

katenarita

Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:53.90

Josh Galarza

And of course, yeah, I do know that there are some books out there besides mine now. And another one that I'd love to bring up and just you know recommend to readers for middle grade is ah John Shue's Louder Than Hunger that also, it just came out this year.

00:50:07.12

Josh Galarza

It came out in March. So um I thought, oh, wow, okay. Like like the fact that two, you know, books marketed particularly to boys that deal with eating disorders, like that's progress right there.

00:50:20.63

Josh Galarza

um and it And it is really good because as you say, that can be the difference.

00:50:21.08

katenarita

Definitely. Yeah.

00:50:24.70

Josh Galarza

It can change a life and it can save a life. Because when we're talking about disordered eating, as you know, like it is life or death um and in a lot of cases and it may be all cases, right?

00:50:37.10

Josh Galarza

That's a very dangerous disease.

00:50:39.40

katenarita

Definitely. And another book we should throw out there is Jarrett Learners, A Work in Progress, which is also for middle graders. So um for people building their list,

00:50:46.30

Josh Galarza

Excellent, I'm glad to get to read some more of these myself, because yeah, I wasn't aware of those those two you mentioned, so cool.

00:50:52.82

katenarita

Yeah, um I live in Massachusetts, and Jared actually lives close to me. Chris is in California. So yeah, and um we are almost out of time.

00:51:04.96

katenarita

And I have so many more questions I wanted to ask about. So um you know for we have a lot of teachers who listen.

00:51:09.68

Josh Galarza

me

00:51:12.23

katenarita

What's what's one writing exercise that you suggest people you know give a try with their students?

00:51:19.03

Josh Galarza

Yeah, I'm always amazed ah at the reluctance beginning writers have or people who aspire to write have of identifying as writers and really like owning that title. And I think one way you get there and you succeed and you persevere like I did for 15 years before you get there is owning that title and really believing in what you're doing even before you get anything published in a literary journal or before you sell a word If I never sold a word, I would identify as a writer. And so the activity, you know, there's a lot of activities you can do, but one I think is so fun and actually inspired a scene in my book is called, I call it covert poetry. So you've read the book. So Brett and his friend, ah Brett writes comic books and he and his buddy.

00:52:12.99

Josh Galarza

at one point are hiding comic books in the library. And that does not necessarily, you know, that leads to some issues for them that doesn't necessarily go well, right, the way stories have to. But the idea for that came out of ah this this covert poetry idea where, you know, we'd have several poetry activities. So anyone who teaches writing, you know,

00:52:34.57

Josh Galarza

You know, there's just a glut of poetry prompts out there. So this isn't even about that. But once you have, let's say you have your students and they've got a collection of poems that they really like, I would say to them, OK, so now our assignment is we're going to print out maybe five copies of our favorite poem and or more, whatever, or multiple poems. I mean, you can be really, you know, ah yeah liberal with this.

00:53:01.78

Josh Galarza

But let's say you all at least have five to 10 printed poems and then we're all going to go to different, like our favorite library, wherever that may be. Maybe that's a school library. Maybe that's, you know, local library. And we're just going to like casually hide these poems in books to just be discovered by somebody. and And really what I'm trying to do here without necessarily saying I'm trying to do it is like, I i want,

00:53:29.98

Josh Galarza

that writer and that student, whoever they may be, to just believe in their work and own it and believe that somebody else could find joy in it or that that it's worthy of discovery. And I think getting published in magazines is kind of like that too. And in journals, like you have to believe some editors going to, when I, when I submit this, some editors going to like, uh, be excited to discover it and want to publish it. And so it's sort of like,

00:53:56.60

Josh Galarza

I'm just owning who I am in this sort of audacious way that is fun and also incredibly harmless. right um ah Brett gets into some trouble for for you know the way he goes about what he's doing. But when I've done this with students in the past, ah it's it's kind of this like joyful thing. right You're just sharing and spreading creativity and joy. you know

00:54:20.50

katenarita

I love that. you know And for our classroom teachers, you could even do it with your own classroom library. you know i had i had I had thousands of books in my classroom, right?

00:54:25.81

Josh Galarza

Yes, yeah.

00:54:28.57

katenarita

So it could be, OK, here's five printouts of your poem folded up into some fun origami shape sticking in the book.

00:54:29.49

Josh Galarza

Mm-hmm.

00:54:32.27

Josh Galarza

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:54:35.34

katenarita

And next year, students are going to find it, right? And then how fun is that? I mean, oh my gosh, that's an amazing idea.

00:54:39.99

Josh Galarza

Right.

00:54:41.72

katenarita

It just feels like, wow, we get to fold it.

00:54:44.65

Josh Galarza

And how inspiring to the next one, right? Like maybe they see that poem, and who knows as an educator too, right?

00:54:47.07

katenarita

Exactly. clean

00:54:50.95

Josh Galarza

You take it to a next step. it's like Well, if you, you know, because you're new students, they might not be expecting to just stumble on a poem. So when they do, and they're like, whoa, look what I found.

00:54:57.61

katenarita

No.

00:54:59.64

Josh Galarza

And you're like, oh, this is our, this is our little secret. And now you're going to pass on this, you know, you're going to do it yourself or something. So there's a lot of ways you could spin it, you know.

00:55:09.45

katenarita

Oh my gosh, that sounds like so much fun. It makes me want to be back in the classroom again.

00:55:14.73

Josh Galarza

ah Yeah.

00:55:14.88

katenarita

Oh wow.

00:55:17.77

katenarita

Well, this has been amazing. And we've mentioned a couple of books. You mentioned John Shue's book. Are there other books that you would like listeners to know about?

00:55:27.06

Josh Galarza

Um, yeah, so I've been reading a lot of the, uh, in these introduced titles since I was lucky enough to be one of them and to to meet a lot of these authors. So I got copies of their books and was really excited. And the one I finished recently was, um, uh, Breaking Into Sunlight by John Cochran. And it's a middle grade book. And when I love it, cause I, you know, I wrote a really challenging book and I think he did as well.

00:55:55.61

Josh Galarza

um It's dealing with a child dealing with a parent who has substance abuse issues. And I just think, you know, it's similar to my book in that we're looking for like how in in situations where we don't have full agency um and and children so often don't, how do we empower ourselves, right? And and how can we sort of find our way through you know these these tough situations where we don't get to fix it or control it, we but but instead have to find a way to to to power through and accept. And um so I think it's a powerful book in that sense.

00:56:35.34

katenarita

I'll have to read that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. All right, so I'd like to end with what's something that's been bringing you joy lately.

00:56:45.68

Josh Galarza

Yeah, um well, Okay, so one of my favorite activities, and in especially when I was kind of in this really ill, volatile place right when I was going back to college at my worst, something that really sustained me was Friday night karaoke. um My friend, a friend of mine, he was a bartender at this place that did karaoke, and I kind of became a fixture there. And i it brought me so much joy, and it was such a thing to look forward to when I maybe was struggling in my life otherwise.

00:57:16.50

Josh Galarza

Well, you know, life changes, you move to new cities, you're doing new things, you're busy. I haven't done much karaoke lately. And of course, of course, we had a pandemic on top of all that. um And yeah, I got to go out and do karaoke with my friends here just last week. And I am telling you, it was the wildest. I have never been to a bar like doing karaoke where it was like, people dancing on the tables. It was insane. I was like,

00:57:43.60

Josh Galarza

The cops are gonna shut this place it down. It was so much fun. oh I was like, wow, it's ah I've done a lot of karaoke in my day, but there was just something about that particular group of people, a lot of like VCU people, I think, ob VCU students and stuff. It's just very like you know college town, but boy, we were having a really good time, I'll tell ya.

00:58:05.28

katenarita

That sounds amazing. I'm going to tag on there. When we were in Bozeman, we were visiting my oldest son who lives out there.

00:58:11.49

Josh Galarza

Mm-hmm.

00:58:11.51

katenarita

And one night, the four of us did karaoke, and it was such a blast. My older son was doing the Hamilton um pieces.

00:58:17.99

Josh Galarza

Oh, good. Yeah.

00:58:18.02

katenarita

And I don't know yeah and how he knows all those words, but he had these movements with it. And I was like, oh my goodness.

00:58:24.41

Josh Galarza

who

00:58:25.62

katenarita

And then my younger son was doing country songs. And he also did, which we just we just were dying. He did the Ed Sheeran and the um Andrea Bocelli song. And so my younger son does not know Italian, but you would not know it from listening to him sing this song.

00:58:35.98

Josh Galarza

Oh, my God.

00:58:39.19

katenarita

We were like, Oh my goodness. And so it was just, it's just so much fun to laugh and you, you get to see people in a different way. um My husband and I, neither one of us had the same kind of theme going that the two of them had, but it was just, I don't know.

00:58:51.96

katenarita

It's, it's phenomenal.

00:58:52.12

Josh Galarza

Mm hmm.

00:58:53.04

katenarita

And yeah.

00:58:54.00

Josh Galarza

And the themes.

00:58:56.62

katenarita

Yeah.

00:58:56.79

Josh Galarza

Yeah, and the themes can be so fun, too, right?

00:58:57.17

katenarita

The themes.

00:58:59.23

Josh Galarza

Like, I'm all about the divas. Like, I don't sing men's voices well. So like, I'll do like, Night of 1000 Whitney's or like, Night of 1000 Celine's, where every song I do is just a Celine or like a Whitney or something, which is so fun and so weird.

00:59:11.64

katenarita

Right, right.

00:59:14.82

katenarita

It's just fun.

00:59:15.10

Josh Galarza

So unexpected, maybe from me. Yeah.

00:59:18.51

katenarita

Well, it's just, it's unexpected from anybody when someone gets on a theme and you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm getting to know this person like in a different way that I would not, there's no other way I could get to know this person where we're we not all sitting around and doing karaoke.

00:59:27.24

Josh Galarza

Right.

00:59:30.41

katenarita

And these are people I know well.

00:59:31.27

Josh Galarza

but Right.

00:59:31.53

katenarita

I mean, or at least I thought I did, right? But I'm like, wow, look at this, you know, it's just so much fun.

00:59:33.52

Josh Galarza

right

00:59:38.30

katenarita

Well, this has been amazing, Josh, and I feel like we only scratched the surface of all the stuff that i I want to talk about with you, but I just want to thank you again from the bottom of my heart for writing The Great Cool Ranch Dorito in the Sky. I think it's an incredibly important book. I really hope everyone reads it. It talks about a lot of issues that we pretend don't exist and that we don't have the courage to talk about, and Josh talks about them all in this book.

01:00:04.02

katenarita

So make sure you go out there make sure you get a copy make sure you share it with people and let them know because It's just full of healing and it's it's full of love and it's got some great laughs in there, too All

01:00:14.90

Josh Galarza

Thank you so much, Kate. I really appreciate you.

01:00:17.27

katenarita

right, I appreciate you too take care