How Do You Science | Meet a Pharmacist

In this episode, I learn all about what it means to be a pharmacist with my friend, Damianne Brand-Eubanks. She's a pharmacist and professor at Washington State University.

Hear about:

• different kinds of pharmacists
• rad new ways to receive medications or shots (like patches that feel like a cat's tongue and jet injectors like you see on Star Trek)
• why reading and writing are amazing for pharmacists, scientists and everybody

Resources you can use:

• Check out this CrashCourse about how scientists make new medicines—called drug discovery
• Find out what it's like to be a community pharmacist, a hospital pharmacist, a manufacturing pharmacist, a medical affairs pharmacist intern, or an informatics pharmacist
• Get some advice about medicine from a dog (who's probably cool even though he's not a cat)

 As always, submit burning questions at askdruniverse.wsu.edu.  Who knows where your questions will take us next.

Transcript

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Dr. Universe

Hey, friends. I'm Dr. Universe, and if you're anything like me, you've got lots of big questions about our world. 

Today I'm talking with my friend Damianne Brand-Eubanks. She's a pharmacist and a professor at Washington State University. I can't wait for you to hear all about her cool job. Let's get started. 

I wondered if we could start by talking about what a pharmacist is and what they do. 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

So, a pharmacist is trained specifically in the medications. So how they work and how they work in the body and how maybe the body changes them. So that's their sole focus. Whereas a physician or a nurse are trained a lot more on how the body processes diseases. We get some of that to better understand again how the drugs work. And so the pharmacist will know more about the medications than anyone else, and there'll be experts in that area. So a lot of times we counsel not just patients, but doctors and nurses and family and anybody who has those types of questions. We have a lot of information, and it's now required to get a doctorate in order to become a pharmacist. So again, a lot of education in how those drugs actually work. 

Dr. Universe

So, you're basically a doctor in medicine. 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Medications. Yes. Yeah. We go for a graduate degree in studying primarily how the medications work in the body and how to make them work the best and when they're not necessary. 

Dr. Universe

And when you say how the body changes them, what does that really mean? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

So, depending on how a person's genetic makeup is, sometimes they have these things called enzymes or transporters, which are little things in the body that change how the medication looks or reacts. 

So, some folks can process through a drug or eat it up really quickly. And so, if we were to give them a dose of a medication, they may burn through that dose very fast, and it wouldn't work as well. So, if we were talking about pain, it would maybe only last fifteen minutes when it's supposed to last an hour. And some people are really slow at eating up that medication. And so sometimes that one dose can last hours and hours. 

And so, knowing that about the patient and how their body alters the drug for treatment matters because not everybody is the same. And that's great. But we need to know that in order to make sure they get the right amount of medication. 

Dr. Universe

Something that I find really interesting, as a cat, is that pharmacists fill prescriptions for humans as well as animals. 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Yeah, we do. And that's actually one of the more fun things that we do. So, I have a cat at home, and she's on a medication. And, as a cat, you know it's very difficult to take things by mouth. She refuses. And so, what we do instead is we make her medicine into a cream, and in her ears, she has a whole bunch of blood vessels. And because she has so many blood vessels, I can just rub that cream right into her ear. And it absorbs the same way as if she took it by mouth. 

And so we get a chance as pharmacists to create new ways to deliver medications for folks that maybe can't swallow a pill or refuse to or are unable to because something's wrong with their throat. So that's a fun one that we do. 

Or thinking about dogs, uh, bigger dogs usually get a lot of arthritis in their hips, and that makes it so they can't run and catch balls and have a good time. And so, we'll make special medications just for them. Because the important thing to understand is human medications don't always work for animals. And some medications cats can have, dogs cannot have and vice versa. So, we have to take those extra steps to make sure we give them the right dose and the right kind of medication that won't hurt them but actually helps make them feel better. 

Dr. Universe

When we talked before about how pills work, you told me about pill ghosts, and that's basically where you take a medicine and it goes through your digestive tract. And the little outside coating passes through completely intact—which is wild. Are there other interesting things like that—about medications or your work—that people like me would be interested to hear? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Well, there's a lot of different mechanisms that we use. One of those that is, they call it nonerodable. That means it doesn't break down. And so, it goes through the whole body. And that's why it comes out whole. It's created almost like a motor boat in that it pulls water in and releases medication. And so, it sort of moves through the system that way. And so that can’t break down because it needs that propeller system. 

We also have things that are injectable that don't break down and have to be removed later. So instead of having to take a medication every day or three times a day, you can get this one injectable. It stays in your system and then over time either breaks down or will remove it and then put a new one in. 

Dr. Universe

I'm picturing like a little pellet under your skin type thing? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Yes, yes, yes. Those are kind of neat ways to do things for long term. So, you don't have to always try to remember, which is the hardest part. I know it's the hardest part for me. So, I really appreciate any of that technology that we move forward where it's easier for someone to get the medication they need without having to try to remember it. 

Another cool thing we do is with patches. So, you think just a sticky patch that has the medicine in it, but there's a lot of technology that goes into that where it can use opposite ions—meaning positive and negative that repel—and they can push the other molecules into the skin. Or we can use little tiny needles that you would never feel. And when you put it on, it actually feels like a cat's tongue. It's just about that prickly. But it doesn't hurt. But it does enough to the skin to allow the medication to go through without disrupting anything else. 

Dr. Universe

They might be trying to make some vaccines like that?

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Yeah. If you've ever watched some of those sci-fi shows such as Star Trek or any of those where the doctor just puts a machine near the body, and it makes a CH sound, and that injectable is put in without any needles—that's already been invented. So, we have that in use. We don't use it very often because they haven't figured out a way to make it quieter. So, it's a little alarming when it happens. It sounds like a gunshot. It's too loud ,and it's startling. And so, we haven't figured that part out. But it is moving forward that even needles don't have to be used for things like vaccines or injectables. 

Dr. Universe

That's amazing. And so interesting that the noise would be so, like, scary that that might be worse for some people than the actual needle. 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

So startling. I know, I know.

Dr. Universe

Pharmacists sometimes work in pharmacies, which could be in a hospital or in even the grocery store, right? Or standalone. And where else do pharmacists work? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

So that is the funniest thing. A lot of folks picture us there, but a majority of us work in advocacy, where we advocate for patients rights and pharmacists rights at professional organizations. We work in research centers—CDC, FDA. 

We work in industry. So, when medications are being discovered, that's a big place we are because we know so much about how they're made and how they process. 

We do things like nuclear pharmacy. So, if you have to process a medication like chemotherapy for cancer treatment, we're the ones that put that together. And they call it nuclear pharmacy because it's a radiation-based treatment. And so, we have to be very careful with that, so specialized folks do that. 

We do patient care where we take over all of the medication management. So, say you went in because your blood sugars were too high, and you were put on a medication. Instead of seeing the doctor every three to six months, you'd see us because we would be making sure that your medications are at the right level because we understand that piece. The doctor for diagnosis and us for medication management. 

Entrepreneurship. Education like I'm in—academia. So I teach dentists and nurses and doctors of osteopathy and pharmacists all about medications and how they work so that they're all prepared equally to start treating patients. 

Dr. Universe

I've noticed, too, that there have been some changes in how much a pharmacist can do—or like the scope of practice—where you can go get your shots from the pharmacist. 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Yeah. Yeah. It's been very exciting because we have quite a bit of training in this area, and our hope is not to take over what physicians do or nurse practitioners. Our goal is to be an additional resource. So especially in places like I am, which is very rural and it's hard to get in to see the doctor if you have something like a vaccination or even something small like you think you maybe have strep throat or a urinary tract infection. You're able to just see the pharmacist. They're able to check that very quickly. You don't have to go to the emergency department or urgent care. You can get seen there, get that taken care of, and then save the doctor for more chronic care or something more severe. But you get access right away. 

In the state of Washington, interestingly enough, we've been able to be providers since 1979. It just happens to move very slowly in what we're allowed to do. And so, we have these collaborative agreements that we work with physicians. And then we just determine what we want to work on. And we develop a plan, and we start treating patients. So very cool. Again, as a support as part of the healthcare team, that's our biggest goal. 

Dr. Universe

Did you always know that you wanted to be a pharmacist? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

I did not. I was working at a pharmaceutical company. I had gotten the job randomly, but I started to work there and participate in all the different departments, and I really enjoyed it. I didn't really even know that I enjoyed science that much until I started that, and that was without a degree. 

And then I got to a point where I wasn't able to move anywhere in the company because I'd already learned everything. And so, in order to move up, I needed to get an education. And so I went back to school, and I knew that I enjoyed the pharmaceutical process. And so I went into pharmacy with a backup of potentially biotechnology because that's the area that I enjoyed. 

The other piece that kind of drove me that way is that my grandmother was pretty sick, and so she had a lot of disease states, and I didn't understand any of them or the medication she was taking or why she was so tired afterwards or didn't feel like she could eat afterwards. 

And so those couple of things pushed me towards it because I realized that pharmacy was a lot about educating folks to empower them to feel better and to take better care of themselves, and it had this science component that I enjoyed learning about, so it worked out really well. 

I did that for a lot of years as a community pharmacist, and I still do community pharmacy. But now I teach future pharmacists. So, it's been a really fun ride. 

Dr. Universe

I think that medicine can sometimes be scary for kids because sometimes it tastes bad, or it might be a shot. Or swallowing a pill is scary when you're first learning how to do it. 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

I agree. 

Dr. Universe

Do you have any thoughts for kids who might need to take medicine and find that worrisome? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

So, I think it's a good idea, if you are someone who has to take the medication, kid or adult—it's good to ask a lot of questions just to make you better understand what's happening. If you have a capsule or a pill and you have trouble swallowing it—because sometimes it feels like it gets stuck, and that makes sense—and there's a couple ways we can tell you how to do it easier. 

But there's also an opportunity to talk to the pharmacist and say, “Hey, can I crush this up and put it in some applesauce or some pudding instead to make it easier to swallow? Or does this come in a liquid? So, I can do this until I can figure out how to learn how to swallow the pills?” 

But it's important to recognize that medicine is meant to help. Say you have an infection. Maybe your throat hurts, and you have an infection. We have to take an antibiotic. And that's anti-bacteria, right? The bacteria that's causing the strep throat. It's important that you take that so that that sickness doesn't become worse and worse and worse. 

So, it's good to talk to your parents, and it's very good to ask the pharmacist some questions, because they'll be happy to tell you everything about it and what to expect.Once you know what's coming, it's less scary. 

Dr. Universe

What is the best part of your job? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

The best part of my job is the impact. So, when I'm able to explain to somebody why they're taking it, or what kind of side effects they're going to have, so they're not afraid when it happens, it makes a huge impact in their quality of life. And that's a big deal to me. When they start feeling better—if they felt bad for a very long time and they're just coming to try to feel better—and I'm able to explain how that works and how long it may take so they don't give up. That makes a big impression on me and makes my job worth doing every day. 

So that's my biggest enjoyment, especially in rural areas where we don't have a lot of access to that education or information. I always explain a lot, probably more than people want to know, but mostly just so they know all of it and feel very empowered—because it changes how quickly you heal, if you're empowered and you understand how your medications work. 

Dr. Universe

Do you have any advice for kids who might be interested in having a job like yours when they grow up? 

Damianne Brand-Eubanks

Definitely look into the different sciences and see if you enjoy them. Math is a part of it. It's not complicated math, but math is important. Start asking questions. Start visiting pharmacies. Ask to shadow and see if it's something you would enjoy. Or talk to a pharmacist friend, if your family has them, and ask them to shadow where they're working, which may be outside of the realm of a regular pharmacy and maybe something you're interested in. 

The other piece that's important: if you're really into art or literature or reading, that is also important. Science is empty without the arts and without humanities, and without outside of the box thinking. So don't be discouraged if that's an area you feel drawn to. 

There's still a place for you in the pharmacy profession because we need those folks to speak on our behalf. And to help us design medications and treatments that are more beautiful and more interesting to take. So don't be discouraged if you feel maybe science isn’t your primary, because you could be taught that science and incorporate both pieces of that and be even better. 

Dr. Universe

That's all for this episode, friends. Huge thanks to Damianne Brand-Eubanks for telling us all about pharmacists and what they do. 

As always, if you've got a science question for me, you can submit it at askdruniverse.wsu.edu. That's A S K D R U N I V E R S E dot W S U dot E D U. Who knows where your questions will take us next.