{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":14.94,"endTime":18.09,"body":"Welcome to the Thin End of the"},{"startTime":14.94,"endTime":18.09,"body":"Wedge, the podcast where experts"},{"startTime":18.09,"endTime":21.12,"body":"from around the world share new"},{"startTime":18.09,"endTime":21.12,"body":"and interesting stories about"},{"startTime":21.12,"endTime":26.01,"body":"life in the ancient Middle East."},{"startTime":21.12,"endTime":26.01,"body":"My name is Jon. Each episode I"},{"startTime":26.01,"endTime":28.8,"body":"talk to friends and colleagues,"},{"startTime":26.01,"endTime":28.8,"body":"and get them to explain their"},{"startTime":28.8,"endTime":31.08,"body":"work in a way we can all"},{"startTime":28.8,"endTime":31.08,"body":"understand."},{"startTime":32.25,"endTime":36.9,"body":"This episode we try something"},{"startTime":32.25,"endTime":36.9,"body":"new. I interview a veteran"},{"startTime":36.9,"endTime":41.67,"body":"scholar, and ask them to share"},{"startTime":36.9,"endTime":41.67,"body":"their memories. I invite them to"},{"startTime":41.67,"endTime":45.99,"body":"reflect on their career. How did"},{"startTime":41.67,"endTime":45.99,"body":"they enter the field? What have"},{"startTime":45.99,"endTime":49.89,"body":"been their experiences and"},{"startTime":45.99,"endTime":49.89,"body":"achievements? Who influenced"},{"startTime":49.89,"endTime":54.03,"body":"them? What do they think about"},{"startTime":49.89,"endTime":54.03,"body":"how things are now, and what the"},{"startTime":54.03,"endTime":55.14,"body":"future may hold?"},{"startTime":56.7,"endTime":60.51,"body":"Our guest is one of the dominant"},{"startTime":56.7,"endTime":60.51,"body":"figures of Iraqi scholarship on"},{"startTime":60.51,"endTime":64.53,"body":"the ancient Middle East. Over"},{"startTime":60.51,"endTime":64.53,"body":"the many decades of his career,"},{"startTime":64.74,"endTime":68.52,"body":"he has worked at some of the"},{"startTime":64.74,"endTime":68.52,"body":"major sites, and been present at"},{"startTime":68.52,"endTime":72.63,"body":"some of the most memorable"},{"startTime":68.52,"endTime":72.63,"body":"events. He has published widely,"},{"startTime":73.02,"endTime":78.18,"body":"and has taught many students. He"},{"startTime":73.02,"endTime":78.18,"body":"is someone held in great esteem."},{"startTime":78.72,"endTime":81.66,"body":"I have seen for myself how keen"},{"startTime":78.72,"endTime":81.66,"body":"visiting Iraqi colleagues have"},{"startTime":81.66,"endTime":84.09,"body":"been to go and pay their"},{"startTime":81.66,"endTime":84.09,"body":"respects to him."},{"startTime":85.62,"endTime":90.48,"body":"In these interviews we hear"},{"startTime":85.62,"endTime":90.48,"body":"individual perspectives. Each"},{"startTime":90.48,"endTime":93.66,"body":"guest will have different"},{"startTime":90.48,"endTime":93.66,"body":"experiences, and different"},{"startTime":93.66,"endTime":98.55,"body":"thoughts. This episode our guest"},{"startTime":93.66,"endTime":98.55,"body":"is someone who has led a"},{"startTime":98.55,"endTime":104.22,"body":"remarkable life, during a time"},{"startTime":98.55,"endTime":104.22,"body":"of dramatic changes in Iraq. His"},{"startTime":104.22,"endTime":108.21,"body":"memories reveal details of daily"},{"startTime":104.22,"endTime":108.21,"body":"life during the mid-20th"},{"startTime":108.21,"endTime":113.55,"body":"century. They let us follow one"},{"startTime":108.21,"endTime":113.55,"body":"man's journey, as he navigates"},{"startTime":113.55,"endTime":118.56,"body":"the challenges of political and"},{"startTime":113.55,"endTime":118.56,"body":"social change. We see complex"},{"startTime":118.56,"endTime":123.81,"body":"academic networks, and the"},{"startTime":118.56,"endTime":123.81,"body":"impact of individuals. We meet"},{"startTime":123.81,"endTime":126.45,"body":"the person behind the famous"},{"startTime":123.81,"endTime":126.45,"body":"name."},{"startTime":128.49,"endTime":132.3,"body":"For this interview, I sent in"},{"startTime":128.49,"endTime":132.3,"body":"advance a list of questions and"},{"startTime":132.3,"endTime":135.99,"body":"topics that I thought would be"},{"startTime":132.3,"endTime":135.99,"body":"interesting to discuss. When we"},{"startTime":135.99,"endTime":140.19,"body":"came to speak, our guest talked"},{"startTime":135.99,"endTime":140.19,"body":"with passion, from the heart."},{"startTime":141.3,"endTime":145.41,"body":"Rather than interrupt, I let him"},{"startTime":141.3,"endTime":145.41,"body":"tell his story in his own way."},{"startTime":146.73,"endTime":150.24,"body":"He was very generous with his"},{"startTime":146.73,"endTime":150.24,"body":"time, so this episode is little"},{"startTime":150.24,"endTime":155.34,"body":"longer than previous ones. What"},{"startTime":150.24,"endTime":155.34,"body":"follows is an edited version of"},{"startTime":155.34,"endTime":159.06,"body":"our conversation. I have added"},{"startTime":155.34,"endTime":159.06,"body":"some brief introductions"},{"startTime":159.06,"endTime":159.75,"body":"throughout."},{"startTime":160.95,"endTime":164.85,"body":"So get yourself a cup of tea,"},{"startTime":160.95,"endTime":164.85,"body":"make yourself comfortable, and"},{"startTime":164.85,"endTime":166.5,"body":"let's meet today's guest."},{"startTime":175.29,"endTime":178.44,"body":"Hello, and welcome to Thin End"},{"startTime":175.29,"endTime":178.44,"body":"of the Wedge. Thank you for"},{"startTime":178.44,"endTime":179.16,"body":"joining us."},{"startTime":179.86,"endTime":186.46,"body":"Hello, Jon. I would like to"},{"startTime":179.86,"endTime":186.46,"body":"thank you for this meeting. And"},{"startTime":186.88,"endTime":192.88,"body":"we hope that our younger"},{"startTime":186.88,"endTime":192.88,"body":"generations would benefit from"},{"startTime":192.91,"endTime":194.56,"body":"such meetings."},{"startTime":194.58,"endTime":198.12,"body":"Could you introduce yourself"},{"startTime":194.58,"endTime":198.12,"body":"please? What's your name? And"},{"startTime":198.12,"endTime":199.83,"body":"how would you describe yourself?"},{"startTime":201.53,"endTime":209.9,"body":"My name is Farouk Nasir Hammadi."},{"startTime":201.53,"endTime":209.9,"body":"And if you want a series of"},{"startTime":210.14,"endTime":216.17,"body":"names, we can give. I was"},{"startTime":210.14,"endTime":216.17,"body":"actually prepared to give you a"},{"startTime":216.17,"endTime":223.1,"body":"photograph of our ancestors in a"},{"startTime":216.17,"endTime":223.1,"body":"kind of a tree, which is the"},{"startTime":223.1,"endTime":228.14,"body":"tradition of keeping the"},{"startTime":223.1,"endTime":228.14,"body":"chronological order of"},{"startTime":228.2,"endTime":229.25,"body":"ourselves."},{"startTime":230.38,"endTime":238.66,"body":"I am a person who grew in an"},{"startTime":230.38,"endTime":238.66,"body":"orchard alongside the Euphrates"},{"startTime":238.96,"endTime":246.94,"body":"in a little town called Rawa."},{"startTime":238.96,"endTime":246.94,"body":"You might ask, \"what is Rawa?\""},{"startTime":247.48,"endTime":257.29,"body":"Some people of the Rawi origin"},{"startTime":247.48,"endTime":257.29,"body":"take that as Al Rawa. It comes"},{"startTime":257.29,"endTime":265.36,"body":"to Arabic as al-Rawi. So the"},{"startTime":257.29,"endTime":265.36,"body":"determinative, actually, it is"},{"startTime":266.32,"endTime":276.34,"body":"\"al\", so al-rawi from Rawa."},{"startTime":266.32,"endTime":276.34,"body":"Rawa, as I said, alongside the"},{"startTime":276.34,"endTime":284.41,"body":"Euphrates. It's like a peninsula"},{"startTime":276.34,"endTime":284.41,"body":"into the Euphrates. It is"},{"startTime":284.5,"endTime":292.12,"body":"opposite 'Ana from one side and"},{"startTime":284.5,"endTime":292.12,"body":"Mashhad from the other, which"},{"startTime":292.12,"endTime":300.46,"body":"they called in Arabic maqam"},{"startTime":292.12,"endTime":300.46,"body":"'Ali. This is the origin. You"},{"startTime":300.46,"endTime":308.05,"body":"might ask me how Rawa became as"},{"startTime":300.46,"endTime":308.05,"body":"the name. I would tell you that"},{"startTime":308.14,"endTime":316.66,"body":"during my readings of cuneiform,"},{"startTime":308.14,"endTime":316.66,"body":"that there were tribes in the"},{"startTime":316.66,"endTime":325.66,"body":"area, you know, the Suhu, which"},{"startTime":316.66,"endTime":325.66,"body":"we called as-suh. The Suh is the"},{"startTime":325.66,"endTime":332.77,"body":"lowland adjacent to the"},{"startTime":325.66,"endTime":332.77,"body":"Euphrates from each side. So"},{"startTime":332.77,"endTime":339.13,"body":"they call it in Akkadian Suhu."},{"startTime":332.77,"endTime":339.13,"body":"But in Arabic, you can"},{"startTime":339.16,"endTime":347.2,"body":"translated as-suh. One of the"},{"startTime":339.16,"endTime":347.2,"body":"tablets, which was discovered in"},{"startTime":347.2,"endTime":355.75,"body":"the area in Sur Jar'a was"},{"startTime":347.2,"endTime":355.75,"body":"published by Antoine Cavigneaux,"},{"startTime":356.05,"endTime":364.6,"body":"and the late Bahija Khalil"},{"startTime":356.05,"endTime":364.6,"body":"Ismail. And that tablet, which I"},{"startTime":364.6,"endTime":370.9,"body":"contributed a little bit by"},{"startTime":364.6,"endTime":370.9,"body":"giving them one of the little"},{"startTime":370.9,"endTime":379.09,"body":"stones which was inscribed from"},{"startTime":370.9,"endTime":379.09,"body":"the same period. So amongst that"},{"startTime":379.09,"endTime":389.77,"body":"tablet, there was a tribe called"},{"startTime":379.09,"endTime":389.77,"body":"Rua. And was it the original of"},{"startTime":389.8,"endTime":391.99,"body":"the people of Rawa?"},{"startTime":393.55,"endTime":399.52,"body":"Farouk starts by explaining his"},{"startTime":393.55,"endTime":399.52,"body":"family background. It contains"},{"startTime":399.52,"endTime":402.88,"body":"fascinating details of the"},{"startTime":399.52,"endTime":402.88,"body":"social history of Iraq in the"},{"startTime":402.88,"endTime":406.81,"body":"mid 20th century, and"},{"startTime":402.88,"endTime":406.81,"body":"observations on similarities"},{"startTime":406.84,"endTime":408.79,"body":"with what we know from ancient"},{"startTime":406.84,"endTime":408.79,"body":"Iraq."},{"startTime":409.57,"endTime":417.58,"body":"We know that Rawa contains many"},{"startTime":409.57,"endTime":417.58,"body":"tribal origins, some of which"},{"startTime":417.7,"endTime":424.84,"body":"connected to the Bedouin. I got"},{"startTime":417.7,"endTime":424.84,"body":"relatives, which are still"},{"startTime":424.84,"endTime":431.68,"body":"living despite all the trouble"},{"startTime":424.84,"endTime":431.68,"body":"and the wars which happened, in"},{"startTime":431.68,"endTime":439.93,"body":"tents, just over Rawa in the"},{"startTime":431.68,"endTime":439.93,"body":"Jazirah. My grandfather was the"},{"startTime":439.93,"endTime":446.59,"body":"sheikh of the tribe, which I"},{"startTime":439.93,"endTime":446.59,"body":"belong to, which is al-Buthayt."},{"startTime":447.7,"endTime":458.02,"body":"His name is Hammadi Salih. We"},{"startTime":447.7,"endTime":458.02,"body":"are divided to small houses. We"},{"startTime":458.05,"endTime":466.0,"body":"called ourselves bayt nu'aman."},{"startTime":458.05,"endTime":466.0,"body":"Nu'aman is like the Jewish name"},{"startTime":466.18,"endTime":475.93,"body":"Newman. So this is my origin. My"},{"startTime":466.18,"endTime":475.93,"body":"grandfather was a guide in the"},{"startTime":475.93,"endTime":483.76,"body":"desert. And alongside the"},{"startTime":475.93,"endTime":483.76,"body":"Euphrates up to near Nisibin, up"},{"startTime":483.76,"endTime":491.26,"body":"the Khabur. And my auntie"},{"startTime":483.76,"endTime":491.26,"body":"actually married to somebody in"},{"startTime":491.29,"endTime":498.91,"body":"Qamishli in our days. By the"},{"startTime":491.29,"endTime":498.91,"body":"way, the diminutive name of my"},{"startTime":498.91,"endTime":506.41,"body":"grandfather is Hammade and I"},{"startTime":498.91,"endTime":506.41,"body":"believe that because he is the"},{"startTime":506.41,"endTime":513.58,"body":"only one who was the guide in"},{"startTime":506.41,"endTime":513.58,"body":"the 20s and before that, whether"},{"startTime":513.58,"endTime":520.78,"body":"he is the one who was mentioned"},{"startTime":513.58,"endTime":520.78,"body":"by Gertrude Bell. In Amurath to"},{"startTime":520.81,"endTime":527.56,"body":"Amurath, there is a picture"},{"startTime":520.81,"endTime":527.56,"body":"representing ahal Rawa, i.e.,"},{"startTime":527.74,"endTime":534.97,"body":"al-Rawi people. They were"},{"startTime":527.74,"endTime":534.97,"body":"standing under our orchard in"},{"startTime":535.03,"endTime":535.66,"body":"Rawa."},{"startTime":537.16,"endTime":544.39,"body":"I am from a humble family. We"},{"startTime":537.16,"endTime":544.39,"body":"have an orchard. During the"},{"startTime":544.39,"endTime":551.8,"body":"summer, we live on that orchard."},{"startTime":544.39,"endTime":551.8,"body":"We have two rooms and the"},{"startTime":551.8,"endTime":557.95,"body":"orchard, which contains many"},{"startTime":551.8,"endTime":557.95,"body":"fruits and vegetables. We lived"},{"startTime":557.98,"endTime":564.04,"body":"out of that. During my early"},{"startTime":557.98,"endTime":564.04,"body":"days, we lived without buying"},{"startTime":564.1,"endTime":570.34,"body":"and selling. We lived by barter."},{"startTime":564.1,"endTime":570.34,"body":"We bartered our fruits to the"},{"startTime":570.34,"endTime":575.56,"body":"others who hasn't got it and"},{"startTime":570.34,"endTime":575.56,"body":"they will give us in return"},{"startTime":575.65,"endTime":582.55,"body":"another fruit. The main the"},{"startTime":575.65,"endTime":582.55,"body":"fruits of area was figs,"},{"startTime":582.76,"endTime":590.59,"body":"mulberry, of course dates,"},{"startTime":582.76,"endTime":590.59,"body":"pomegranates. Pomegranates, by"},{"startTime":590.59,"endTime":597.22,"body":"the way, is the life of the"},{"startTime":590.59,"endTime":597.22,"body":"people, because they used it as"},{"startTime":597.22,"endTime":604.03,"body":"a fruit; they used the shooting"},{"startTime":597.22,"endTime":604.03,"body":"as a binders for the Na'ur."},{"startTime":605.29,"endTime":612.43,"body":"Na'ur is when the wheel go"},{"startTime":605.29,"endTime":612.43,"body":"round, it make the sound. We"},{"startTime":612.43,"endTime":620.05,"body":"used the shoot as binders, we"},{"startTime":612.43,"endTime":620.05,"body":"bound the actual pieces of the"},{"startTime":620.05,"endTime":627.79,"body":"wheel. And we bound the shooting"},{"startTime":620.05,"endTime":627.79,"body":"jars attached to the wheel,"},{"startTime":628.0,"endTime":634.42,"body":"which resembles the Old"},{"startTime":628.0,"endTime":634.42,"body":"Babylonian shooting jars, which"},{"startTime":634.42,"endTime":638.89,"body":"was discovered from Mari to"},{"startTime":634.42,"endTime":638.89,"body":"Babylon."},{"startTime":639.97,"endTime":646.24,"body":"Our water was filtrated by a"},{"startTime":639.97,"endTime":646.24,"body":"very large jar. We call it"},{"startTime":646.24,"endTime":654.1,"body":"\"hib\". And under it, there was a"},{"startTime":646.24,"endTime":654.1,"body":"small pottery jar to collect"},{"startTime":654.25,"endTime":661.96,"body":"that filtrated water. We drink"},{"startTime":654.25,"endTime":661.96,"body":"from that water. Our food is"},{"startTime":661.96,"endTime":670.51,"body":"simple food, simple Iraqi food."},{"startTime":661.96,"endTime":670.51,"body":"We mainly eat meat once a week,"},{"startTime":670.66,"endTime":677.29,"body":"if we can afford it. But"},{"startTime":670.66,"endTime":677.29,"body":"sometimes we have feasts. We"},{"startTime":677.29,"endTime":683.47,"body":"have feasts for the dead people"},{"startTime":677.29,"endTime":683.47,"body":"during what we call Eid al-Adha."},{"startTime":685.78,"endTime":693.07,"body":"People or houses, they used to"},{"startTime":685.78,"endTime":693.07,"body":"sacrifice on that four days,"},{"startTime":693.58,"endTime":703.42,"body":"mainly either a camel or a cow."},{"startTime":693.58,"endTime":703.42,"body":"And it should be pure, and not"},{"startTime":703.48,"endTime":710.44,"body":"lie into one leg or another. So"},{"startTime":703.48,"endTime":710.44,"body":"this is one of our main"},{"startTime":710.44,"endTime":717.7,"body":"festivals in the year. At the"},{"startTime":710.44,"endTime":717.7,"body":"beginning, which is around these"},{"startTime":717.7,"endTime":723.55,"body":"days, autumn time, the end of"},{"startTime":717.7,"endTime":723.55,"body":"autumn, and the beginning of the"},{"startTime":723.55,"endTime":730.33,"body":"new year, we and this is"},{"startTime":723.55,"endTime":730.33,"body":"something mentioned in cuneiform"},{"startTime":730.36,"endTime":739.36,"body":"from Ur the Third Dynasty. We"},{"startTime":730.36,"endTime":739.36,"body":"sacrifice animals, mainly sheep"},{"startTime":739.72,"endTime":748.57,"body":"and goats after we fatten them."},{"startTime":739.72,"endTime":748.57,"body":"We fatten them for four months,"},{"startTime":748.93,"endTime":753.55,"body":"then we sacrifice them and keep"},{"startTime":748.93,"endTime":753.55,"body":"the meat."},{"startTime":755.05,"endTime":762.31,"body":"Until now I can taste the way in"},{"startTime":755.05,"endTime":762.31,"body":"which we used the meat. We"},{"startTime":762.31,"endTime":769.33,"body":"preserve it in pouch--leather,"},{"startTime":762.31,"endTime":769.33,"body":"in hide. They put it in, they"},{"startTime":769.36,"endTime":777.22,"body":"emptied it from the air, put"},{"startTime":769.36,"endTime":777.22,"body":"some ... a lot really, of salt"},{"startTime":777.58,"endTime":786.7,"body":"and spices, on that particular"},{"startTime":777.58,"endTime":786.7,"body":"way of preserving meats. We used"},{"startTime":786.7,"endTime":794.92,"body":"to preserve even vegetables. We"},{"startTime":786.7,"endTime":794.92,"body":"used to hang them in necklaces,"},{"startTime":795.49,"endTime":802.24,"body":"the aubergine, the ocra or"},{"startTime":795.49,"endTime":802.24,"body":"\"bamia\" we call it and the"},{"startTime":802.24,"endTime":810.67,"body":"tomatoes. We used to dry it on"},{"startTime":802.24,"endTime":810.67,"body":"the sun, such vegetables, and"},{"startTime":810.67,"endTime":817.03,"body":"make them into ropes. This is"},{"startTime":810.67,"endTime":817.03,"body":"from where possibly the"},{"startTime":817.03,"endTime":823.63,"body":"measurement \"aplu\", the"},{"startTime":817.03,"endTime":823.63,"body":"measurement of rope, came to the"},{"startTime":823.66,"endTime":829.84,"body":"cuneiform tablets. And this is"},{"startTime":823.66,"endTime":829.84,"body":"from where possibly we measure"},{"startTime":830.08,"endTime":836.77,"body":"with ropes. And by the way, we"},{"startTime":830.08,"endTime":836.77,"body":"measure our orchard and the"},{"startTime":836.77,"endTime":845.74,"body":"fields, we measure them by qanu,"},{"startTime":836.77,"endTime":845.74,"body":"by the reed, which is a certain"},{"startTime":845.77,"endTime":853.42,"body":"measurement. It could be between"},{"startTime":845.77,"endTime":853.42,"body":"25 and 30 metres. They're"},{"startTime":853.42,"endTime":860.86,"body":"usually from one of the branches"},{"startTime":853.42,"endTime":860.86,"body":"of the mulberry trees or"},{"startTime":860.86,"endTime":867.73,"body":"something like that. When they"},{"startTime":860.86,"endTime":867.73,"body":"want to measure a field or an"},{"startTime":867.73,"endTime":874.27,"body":"orchard, they will measure it by"},{"startTime":867.73,"endTime":874.27,"body":"the standard kept with a sheikh"},{"startTime":874.27,"endTime":881.65,"body":"or his family. So the used to"},{"startTime":874.27,"endTime":881.65,"body":"measure these fields and"},{"startTime":881.68,"endTime":889.12,"body":"orchards like what we have in"},{"startTime":881.68,"endTime":889.12,"body":"Sumerian and the Akkadian, the"},{"startTime":889.3,"endTime":899.68,"body":"nindan, the reed. This is my"},{"startTime":889.3,"endTime":899.68,"body":"connection to the study of"},{"startTime":899.71,"endTime":903.64,"body":"ancient history and archaeology."},{"startTime":904.72,"endTime":908.59,"body":"Next Farouk tells us how he"},{"startTime":904.72,"endTime":908.59,"body":"became interested in ancient"},{"startTime":908.59,"endTime":914.08,"body":"Iraq. He explains his education"},{"startTime":908.59,"endTime":914.08,"body":"and his early university career."},{"startTime":915.19,"endTime":923.86,"body":"I have one of my uncle's, the"},{"startTime":915.19,"endTime":923.86,"body":"eldest brother of my mother. He"},{"startTime":923.86,"endTime":931.03,"body":"used to go to areas in the"},{"startTime":923.86,"endTime":931.03,"body":"desert and alongside the"},{"startTime":931.03,"endTime":938.29,"body":"Euphrates. He knew of some"},{"startTime":931.03,"endTime":938.29,"body":"people discovered at that time,"},{"startTime":938.53,"endTime":946.09,"body":"some coins, some artifacts, and"},{"startTime":938.53,"endTime":946.09,"body":"took it to Baghdad from an area"},{"startTime":946.42,"endTime":955.45,"body":"called Hubayd. And they even"},{"startTime":946.42,"endTime":955.45,"body":"dimunised his name as Hubaydi,"},{"startTime":955.45,"endTime":964.9,"body":"i.e., related to that particular"},{"startTime":955.45,"endTime":964.9,"body":"Roman city, as we discovered"},{"startTime":965.02,"endTime":973.87,"body":"later in the 70s. He knew of"},{"startTime":965.02,"endTime":973.87,"body":"archaeology and tell us stories"},{"startTime":974.02,"endTime":982.81,"body":"about these archaeological"},{"startTime":974.02,"endTime":982.81,"body":"items, such as numismatics, or"},{"startTime":982.96,"endTime":990.76,"body":"incantation bowls or statues."},{"startTime":982.96,"endTime":990.76,"body":"They will say that the French or"},{"startTime":990.76,"endTime":997.09,"body":"the British, they found a statue"},{"startTime":990.76,"endTime":997.09,"body":"and remove it and took it away"},{"startTime":997.51,"endTime":1005.46,"body":"between 'Ana and Rawa in the"},{"startTime":997.51,"endTime":1005.46,"body":"middle of the Euphrates. So this"},{"startTime":1005.46,"endTime":1010.53,"body":"is one branch of my knowledge of"},{"startTime":1005.46,"endTime":1010.53,"body":"archaeology."},{"startTime":1011.01,"endTime":1017.4,"body":"And the other which I followed"},{"startTime":1011.01,"endTime":1017.4,"body":"always, another uncle, is the"},{"startTime":1017.4,"endTime":1024.96,"body":"brother of my mother, his name"},{"startTime":1017.4,"endTime":1024.96,"body":"is Sanad Mohammed Abdulrazzaq."},{"startTime":1027.06,"endTime":1035.61,"body":"And Sanad Mohamed Abdulrazzaq,"},{"startTime":1027.06,"endTime":1035.61,"body":"his father was actually a tribal"},{"startTime":1035.76,"endTime":1043.35,"body":"leader. And by the way, they"},{"startTime":1035.76,"endTime":1043.35,"body":"give him the diminutive name as"},{"startTime":1043.44,"endTime":1052.74,"body":"Abu li'umaysh. Al-umaysh means"},{"startTime":1043.44,"endTime":1052.74,"body":"the one who owned a she-camel"},{"startTime":1052.95,"endTime":1059.46,"body":"with a very tall or large"},{"startTime":1052.95,"endTime":1059.46,"body":"eyelashes. So they called her"},{"startTime":1060.6,"endTime":1068.31,"body":"al-umaysh. And, by the way, Rawa"},{"startTime":1060.6,"endTime":1068.31,"body":"did not became under British"},{"startTime":1068.34,"endTime":1078.27,"body":"rule until 1934. And he was the"},{"startTime":1068.34,"endTime":1078.27,"body":"one who negotiate with the"},{"startTime":1078.27,"endTime":1086.7,"body":"British not to bombard Rawa and"},{"startTime":1078.27,"endTime":1086.7,"body":"they will give up and by having"},{"startTime":1086.82,"endTime":1090.33,"body":"a self-government in Rawa"},{"startTime":1086.82,"endTime":1090.33,"body":"itself."},{"startTime":1091.11,"endTime":1096.66,"body":"So you can see this is the"},{"startTime":1091.11,"endTime":1096.66,"body":"route. This is how they planted"},{"startTime":1096.69,"endTime":1103.08,"body":"the seed into us. In"},{"startTime":1096.69,"endTime":1103.08,"body":"mathematics, they have many,"},{"startTime":1103.08,"endTime":1109.59,"body":"many riddles. They give you"},{"startTime":1103.08,"endTime":1109.59,"body":"riddles, you have to solve."},{"startTime":1110.1,"endTime":1118.89,"body":"Like, you have 100 dinar and 100"},{"startTime":1110.1,"endTime":1118.89,"body":"women. You have to enter them"},{"startTime":1119.16,"endTime":1127.08,"body":"into the bath. And one woman"},{"startTime":1119.16,"endTime":1127.08,"body":"equals a dinar. And the other,"},{"startTime":1127.2,"endTime":1134.58,"body":"older than her, equals something"},{"startTime":1127.2,"endTime":1134.58,"body":"like 40 fills, which is pennies."},{"startTime":1135.03,"endTime":1144.12,"body":"And then the oldest, each 100 of"},{"startTime":1135.03,"endTime":1144.12,"body":"them equals one fils. So how"},{"startTime":1144.12,"endTime":1154.38,"body":"will you enter 100 women into a"},{"startTime":1144.12,"endTime":1154.38,"body":"bath with 100 dinars? My uncle"},{"startTime":1154.38,"endTime":1159.75,"body":"was a politician at the same"},{"startTime":1154.38,"endTime":1159.75,"body":"time. They call him Ansar"},{"startTime":1159.75,"endTime":1166.98,"body":"al-Salam, the people who support"},{"startTime":1159.75,"endTime":1166.98,"body":"peace. He was the leader until"},{"startTime":1166.98,"endTime":1176.31,"body":"actually '63. So that is the"},{"startTime":1166.98,"endTime":1176.31,"body":"political and social life that I"},{"startTime":1176.31,"endTime":1177.78,"body":"grew up with."},{"startTime":1179.19,"endTime":1183.72,"body":"Now Farouk moves on to life"},{"startTime":1179.19,"endTime":1183.72,"body":"after graduation. We hear about"},{"startTime":1183.72,"endTime":1187.26,"body":"his excavation experience and"},{"startTime":1183.72,"endTime":1187.26,"body":"his postgraduate studies."},{"startTime":1188.13,"endTime":1194.19,"body":"Well, myself, I was active with"},{"startTime":1188.13,"endTime":1194.19,"body":"the student society, which is"},{"startTime":1194.22,"endTime":1200.79,"body":"affiliated to a particular party"},{"startTime":1194.22,"endTime":1200.79,"body":"in Iraq, like a communist party."},{"startTime":1201.45,"endTime":1207.72,"body":"I was active on that. I have"},{"startTime":1201.45,"endTime":1207.72,"body":"been almost deported from"},{"startTime":1207.78,"endTime":1214.41,"body":"Rawa--with many others--because"},{"startTime":1207.78,"endTime":1214.41,"body":"of that activities. I went to"},{"startTime":1214.41,"endTime":1220.71,"body":"Fallujah, which is only where I"},{"startTime":1214.41,"endTime":1220.71,"body":"have relatives and my father had"},{"startTime":1220.71,"endTime":1227.01,"body":"a shop. Then with the"},{"startTime":1220.71,"endTime":1227.01,"body":"development of the Baathists and"},{"startTime":1227.52,"endTime":1232.83,"body":"nationalists on the area, we"},{"startTime":1227.52,"endTime":1232.83,"body":"couldn't live anymore in"},{"startTime":1232.83,"endTime":1239.76,"body":"Fallujah. We have to go to"},{"startTime":1232.83,"endTime":1239.76,"body":"Baghdad. So I studied in all"},{"startTime":1239.76,"endTime":1246.87,"body":"these cities. Then I went to"},{"startTime":1239.76,"endTime":1246.87,"body":"Baghdad and from Baghdad my"},{"startTime":1246.87,"endTime":1254.82,"body":"uncle was a health officer in"},{"startTime":1246.87,"endTime":1254.82,"body":"they call it al-Dujail. You"},{"startTime":1254.82,"endTime":1262.59,"body":"heard about al-Dujail and where"},{"startTime":1254.82,"endTime":1262.59,"body":"Saddam was executed because of"},{"startTime":1262.62,"endTime":1269.07,"body":"what he did in al-Dujail. There"},{"startTime":1262.62,"endTime":1269.07,"body":"were orchards. There is a small"},{"startTime":1269.07,"endTime":1277.2,"body":"canal in the area. And we have"},{"startTime":1269.07,"endTime":1277.2,"body":"been moved from there further to"},{"startTime":1277.2,"endTime":1279.69,"body":"the north into Balad."},{"startTime":1280.38,"endTime":1287.28,"body":"The area ... the whole area is"},{"startTime":1280.38,"endTime":1287.28,"body":"very rich in archaeological"},{"startTime":1287.28,"endTime":1293.31,"body":"sites. Opposite Balad there is"},{"startTime":1287.28,"endTime":1293.31,"body":"what they called ath-thalu'iyah."},{"startTime":1293.34,"endTime":1302.85,"body":"Ath-thalu'iyah, it's one of the"},{"startTime":1293.34,"endTime":1302.85,"body":"areas where somebody found the"},{"startTime":1302.88,"endTime":1309.09,"body":"stone of Haya ... or we"},{"startTime":1302.88,"endTime":1309.09,"body":"translated--the late Jeremy"},{"startTime":1309.09,"endTime":1315.45,"body":"[Black] and myself, but with"},{"startTime":1309.09,"endTime":1315.45,"body":"hesitation, it is Haza, an Old"},{"startTime":1315.45,"endTime":1324.09,"body":"Babylonian town. It's not very"},{"startTime":1315.45,"endTime":1324.09,"body":"far from Upis. So after that, I"},{"startTime":1324.09,"endTime":1333.39,"body":"have been transferred with my"},{"startTime":1324.09,"endTime":1333.39,"body":"uncle into Beiji and I did my"},{"startTime":1333.45,"endTime":1339.36,"body":"first baccalaureate, second"},{"startTime":1333.45,"endTime":1339.36,"body":"baccalaureate there. After a"},{"startTime":1339.36,"endTime":1347.4,"body":"while, I have to go to Rawa. And"},{"startTime":1339.36,"endTime":1347.4,"body":"we lived out of my father's shop"},{"startTime":1347.49,"endTime":1354.39,"body":"in Fallujah after that. And I"},{"startTime":1347.49,"endTime":1354.39,"body":"finished actually my high"},{"startTime":1354.39,"endTime":1361.83,"body":"baccalaureate in Fallujah. Then"},{"startTime":1354.39,"endTime":1361.83,"body":"I have been accepted into three"},{"startTime":1361.86,"endTime":1370.02,"body":"colleges, like the law college"},{"startTime":1361.86,"endTime":1370.02,"body":"and Arabic studies, and"},{"startTime":1370.17,"endTime":1375.51,"body":"archaeology and other"},{"startTime":1370.17,"endTime":1375.51,"body":"departments like history,"},{"startTime":1375.54,"endTime":1384.69,"body":"geography, etc. I chose the"},{"startTime":1375.54,"endTime":1384.69,"body":"archaeology department, and this"},{"startTime":1384.69,"endTime":1388.77,"body":"is how I started my involvement."},{"startTime":1389.4,"endTime":1396.12,"body":"We used ... with some friends"},{"startTime":1389.4,"endTime":1396.12,"body":"like Zuhair Rajab Abdullah"},{"startTime":1396.15,"endTime":1404.01,"body":"Burhan Shaqir, who worked many"},{"startTime":1396.15,"endTime":1404.01,"body":"times as representatives of the"},{"startTime":1404.04,"endTime":1411.12,"body":"School of Archaeology in Iraq."},{"startTime":1404.04,"endTime":1411.12,"body":"And they learned many techniques"},{"startTime":1411.15,"endTime":1418.92,"body":"in archaeology, and they learned"},{"startTime":1411.15,"endTime":1418.92,"body":"many ideas from Hrouda, the"},{"startTime":1418.92,"endTime":1427.02,"body":"Germans, from the Italians, and"},{"startTime":1418.92,"endTime":1427.02,"body":"from the Japanese Fuji. I used"},{"startTime":1427.02,"endTime":1435.18,"body":"to leave the college and go to a"},{"startTime":1427.02,"endTime":1435.18,"body":"site called Hiyut Rabu'ah. Not"},{"startTime":1435.18,"endTime":1443.97,"body":"very far from Harmal. Whereby"},{"startTime":1435.18,"endTime":1443.97,"body":"the best excavator of Iraq, the"},{"startTime":1443.97,"endTime":1452.28,"body":"late Hazim an-Najafi was"},{"startTime":1443.97,"endTime":1452.28,"body":"working. So I trained by him,"},{"startTime":1452.67,"endTime":1460.29,"body":"and who was trained before by"},{"startTime":1452.67,"endTime":1460.29,"body":"Seton Lloyd, Fuad Safar,"},{"startTime":1460.71,"endTime":1469.14,"body":"Muhammad Ali Mustafa and others."},{"startTime":1460.71,"endTime":1469.14,"body":"So, this is my archaeological"},{"startTime":1469.32,"endTime":1476.82,"body":"background. So I was working at"},{"startTime":1469.32,"endTime":1476.82,"body":"Hiyut Rabu'ah, at Harmal itself."},{"startTime":1477.57,"endTime":1484.98,"body":"I go to visit. I participate."},{"startTime":1477.57,"endTime":1484.98,"body":"And this is the main thing. In"},{"startTime":1485.07,"endTime":1492.33,"body":"Mesopotamia, you have to gain"},{"startTime":1485.07,"endTime":1492.33,"body":"the knowledge of identifying"},{"startTime":1492.48,"endTime":1501.0,"body":"libn from the earth. You have to"},{"startTime":1492.48,"endTime":1501.0,"body":"distinguish them by the mortar,"},{"startTime":1501.24,"endTime":1507.33,"body":"because it's a different colour"},{"startTime":1501.24,"endTime":1507.33,"body":"and a different texture. So, you"},{"startTime":1507.33,"endTime":1514.65,"body":"hold up the axe, which will"},{"startTime":1507.33,"endTime":1514.65,"body":"enable you in a 45 degrees--this"},{"startTime":1514.8,"endTime":1520.92,"body":"is what I learned from Fuad"},{"startTime":1514.8,"endTime":1520.92,"body":"Safar: how to distinguish"},{"startTime":1520.92,"endTime":1523.92,"body":"between libn and earth."},{"startTime":1525.45,"endTime":1531.75,"body":"As for languages, I was studying"},{"startTime":1525.45,"endTime":1531.75,"body":"in the Department of"},{"startTime":1531.78,"endTime":1541.29,"body":"Archaeology. And I have been"},{"startTime":1531.78,"endTime":1541.29,"body":"taught by many scholars. The end"},{"startTime":1541.47,"endTime":1546.45,"body":"of the career in Iraq of"},{"startTime":1541.47,"endTime":1546.45,"body":"Matoush, who taught me the"},{"startTime":1546.45,"endTime":1552.51,"body":"Akkadian and parts of the"},{"startTime":1546.45,"endTime":1552.51,"body":"Sumerian. Then comes"},{"startTime":1552.66,"endTime":1562.41,"body":"Reimschneider, a German scholar."},{"startTime":1552.66,"endTime":1562.41,"body":"Reimschneider taught me Sumerian"},{"startTime":1562.74,"endTime":1571.38,"body":"and a little bit of German. And"},{"startTime":1562.74,"endTime":1571.38,"body":"this opened my mind. I have a"},{"startTime":1571.38,"endTime":1578.97,"body":"nice teacher in college, his"},{"startTime":1571.38,"endTime":1578.97,"body":"name was Butler. And he used to"},{"startTime":1578.97,"endTime":1586.47,"body":"teach us English. And there was"},{"startTime":1578.97,"endTime":1586.47,"body":"another teacher which passed"},{"startTime":1586.5,"endTime":1594.24,"body":"through my life, which is Madame"},{"startTime":1586.5,"endTime":1594.24,"body":"Mackie, you know Mackie in Kufa"},{"startTime":1594.24,"endTime":1599.58,"body":"gallery. His wife also taught"},{"startTime":1594.24,"endTime":1599.58,"body":"me--she's English, and she"},{"startTime":1599.58,"endTime":1607.59,"body":"taught us English. I have been"},{"startTime":1599.58,"endTime":1607.59,"body":"also taught by Mahmud al-Amin."},{"startTime":1607.92,"endTime":1614.52,"body":"He studied in German. And I"},{"startTime":1607.92,"endTime":1614.52,"body":"still have a small book, which"},{"startTime":1614.52,"endTime":1623.01,"body":"he copied most of the texts of"},{"startTime":1614.52,"endTime":1623.01,"body":"Nimrud. At that time, he was the"},{"startTime":1623.01,"endTime":1630.15,"body":"directorate official for Nimrud."},{"startTime":1623.01,"endTime":1630.15,"body":"And he also taught me history."},{"startTime":1630.99,"endTime":1639.72,"body":"And I have been taught also by"},{"startTime":1630.99,"endTime":1639.72,"body":"the late Fuad Safar, who really"},{"startTime":1639.72,"endTime":1647.22,"body":"put me into research. I used to"},{"startTime":1639.72,"endTime":1647.22,"body":"write to him some essays such as"},{"startTime":1647.25,"endTime":1654.63,"body":"Sennacherib aquaducts, and his"},{"startTime":1647.25,"endTime":1654.63,"body":"work on irrigating northern"},{"startTime":1654.66,"endTime":1657.15,"body":"Mesopotamia and so on."},{"startTime":1658.77,"endTime":1662.4,"body":"At this point, Farouk encounters"},{"startTime":1658.77,"endTime":1662.4,"body":"someone who would be a key"},{"startTime":1662.4,"endTime":1668.4,"body":"influence on his career, Harry"},{"startTime":1662.4,"endTime":1668.4,"body":"Saggs. I also owe Saggs a debt."},{"startTime":1668.82,"endTime":1672.6,"body":"It wasn't until I came across a"},{"startTime":1668.82,"endTime":1672.6,"body":"copy of his The Might that was"},{"startTime":1672.6,"endTime":1676.29,"body":"Assyria that it really sank in"},{"startTime":1672.6,"endTime":1676.29,"body":"that there were all these"},{"startTime":1676.29,"endTime":1680.76,"body":"interesting cultures in ancient"},{"startTime":1676.29,"endTime":1680.76,"body":"Iraq. But I never even met him."},{"startTime":1681.66,"endTime":1684.3,"body":"Farouk knew him much more"},{"startTime":1681.66,"endTime":1684.3,"body":"closely."},{"startTime":1685.35,"endTime":1693.72,"body":"I was always during my study the"},{"startTime":1685.35,"endTime":1693.72,"body":"top student. And after I"},{"startTime":1693.72,"endTime":1701.4,"body":"graduated, they nominated me to"},{"startTime":1693.72,"endTime":1701.4,"body":"be demonstrator under the"},{"startTime":1701.4,"endTime":1710.67,"body":"lecturers. So I went to Mosul"},{"startTime":1701.4,"endTime":1710.67,"body":"University. This is during '60s."},{"startTime":1711.15,"endTime":1720.09,"body":"So it's a long time ago. And"},{"startTime":1711.15,"endTime":1720.09,"body":"this is where I met Saggs. There"},{"startTime":1720.09,"endTime":1727.98,"body":"was in there who wanted me to be"},{"startTime":1720.09,"endTime":1727.98,"body":"part of the University. His name"},{"startTime":1728.01,"endTime":1736.5,"body":"was professor Mahmoud al-Jalili."},{"startTime":1728.01,"endTime":1736.5,"body":"He was the president of the"},{"startTime":1736.56,"endTime":1746.25,"body":"university. And he was the best"},{"startTime":1736.56,"endTime":1746.25,"body":"scholar. Mahmoud al-Jalili, he"},{"startTime":1746.28,"endTime":1752.85,"body":"[was] checked by the Baathists"},{"startTime":1746.28,"endTime":1752.85,"body":"when they came to power, and he"},{"startTime":1752.85,"endTime":1759.12,"body":"was living at that time in"},{"startTime":1752.85,"endTime":1759.12,"body":"Baghdad. He went to Baghdad, and"},{"startTime":1759.12,"endTime":1765.99,"body":"he worked at the highest"},{"startTime":1759.12,"endTime":1765.99,"body":"institution, which is the Majma"},{"startTime":1765.99,"endTime":1774.06,"body":"al-Ilmi al-Iraqi, which is the"},{"startTime":1765.99,"endTime":1774.06,"body":"scientific assembly of"},{"startTime":1774.06,"endTime":1779.37,"body":"academics, like the British"},{"startTime":1774.06,"endTime":1779.37,"body":"academics, and he stayed all his"},{"startTime":1779.37,"endTime":1786.03,"body":"life as a heart surgeon. He used"},{"startTime":1779.37,"endTime":1786.03,"body":"to come every year to Britain"},{"startTime":1786.12,"endTime":1792.45,"body":"and he never missed to either"},{"startTime":1786.12,"endTime":1792.45,"body":"invite me or come to see me"},{"startTime":1792.45,"endTime":1798.87,"body":"before he goes back to Iraq."},{"startTime":1792.45,"endTime":1798.87,"body":"\"Why?\", you might ask. I will"},{"startTime":1798.87,"endTime":1807.42,"body":"tell you I used, when I find a"},{"startTime":1798.87,"endTime":1807.42,"body":"brick, a fragment of a tablet or"},{"startTime":1807.57,"endTime":1815.55,"body":"an inscription, I used to read"},{"startTime":1807.57,"endTime":1815.55,"body":"it to him directly. When I found"},{"startTime":1815.55,"endTime":1822.96,"body":"it and identify to him, what is"},{"startTime":1815.55,"endTime":1822.96,"body":"that archaeological object and"},{"startTime":1822.96,"endTime":1826.89,"body":"who wrote it, like Sennacherib,"},{"startTime":1822.96,"endTime":1826.89,"body":"and so on."},{"startTime":1828.48,"endTime":1835.11,"body":"When he saw my ability on"},{"startTime":1828.48,"endTime":1835.11,"body":"cuneiform, he invited Saggs,"},{"startTime":1836.4,"endTime":1843.36,"body":"Professor Henry William"},{"startTime":1836.4,"endTime":1843.36,"body":"Frederick Saggs, who was part of"},{"startTime":1843.36,"endTime":1850.59,"body":"my family or extended family."},{"startTime":1843.36,"endTime":1850.59,"body":"From the time I know him until"},{"startTime":1850.8,"endTime":1859.95,"body":"like we say in cuneiform"},{"startTime":1850.8,"endTime":1859.95,"body":"ibaqishu iqabbar. So I was"},{"startTime":1859.95,"endTime":1868.08,"body":"mourning him, crying when he"},{"startTime":1859.95,"endTime":1868.08,"body":"died, and when he have his rest"},{"startTime":1868.14,"endTime":1875.07,"body":"in Suffolk. Saggs, I knew him"},{"startTime":1868.14,"endTime":1875.07,"body":"from at that time when I was"},{"startTime":1875.07,"endTime":1885.09,"body":"working at Tarbisu with the late"},{"startTime":1875.07,"endTime":1885.09,"body":"Dr. Amir Suleiman. I was working"},{"startTime":1885.12,"endTime":1893.46,"body":"the main excavator. We have been"},{"startTime":1885.12,"endTime":1893.46,"body":"visited by Saggs, by the late"},{"startTime":1893.46,"endTime":1900.69,"body":"David Oates, and Nicholas"},{"startTime":1893.46,"endTime":1900.69,"body":"Postgate and the others. At"},{"startTime":1900.69,"endTime":1907.71,"body":"Tarbisu where I worked in the"},{"startTime":1900.69,"endTime":1907.71,"body":"temple of Nergal, from the time"},{"startTime":1907.74,"endTime":1916.92,"body":"of Sennacherib and on the Palace"},{"startTime":1907.74,"endTime":1916.92,"body":"of bringing up the princes, the"},{"startTime":1916.92,"endTime":1922.53,"body":"future kings and princes of"},{"startTime":1916.92,"endTime":1922.53,"body":"Assyria. We discovered a"},{"startTime":1922.53,"endTime":1929.85,"body":"beautiful palace for"},{"startTime":1922.53,"endTime":1929.85,"body":"Ashurbanipal. And it could be"},{"startTime":1929.88,"endTime":1936.27,"body":"also from the time of Sargon and"},{"startTime":1929.88,"endTime":1936.27,"body":"from the time of Sennacherib."},{"startTime":1937.2,"endTime":1942.03,"body":"Actually, we discovered also"},{"startTime":1937.2,"endTime":1942.03,"body":"what we called bit rimki,"},{"startTime":1942.75,"endTime":1949.98,"body":"whereby we found a water canal"},{"startTime":1942.75,"endTime":1949.98,"body":"leading to a building fortified"},{"startTime":1950.01,"endTime":1958.89,"body":"at the foundations with large"},{"startTime":1950.01,"endTime":1958.89,"body":"bricks and built by bitumen. And"},{"startTime":1958.98,"endTime":1966.9,"body":"one of the courts had a canal"},{"startTime":1958.98,"endTime":1966.9,"body":"coming down into a big courtyard"},{"startTime":1967.14,"endTime":1974.16,"body":"with the fountain. We have a"},{"startTime":1967.14,"endTime":1974.16,"body":"fountain, a brick with many"},{"startTime":1974.16,"endTime":1981.75,"body":"holes, whereby the canal put its"},{"startTime":1974.16,"endTime":1981.75,"body":"water in, and the water will"},{"startTime":1981.84,"endTime":1991.2,"body":"come up into the room, which is"},{"startTime":1981.84,"endTime":1991.2,"body":"fortified with about 10 layers"},{"startTime":1991.26,"endTime":1999.87,"body":"of bricks built by bitumen. This"},{"startTime":1991.26,"endTime":1999.87,"body":"is my main experience."},{"startTime":2000.68,"endTime":2005.57,"body":"By the way, at that time, we"},{"startTime":2000.68,"endTime":2005.57,"body":"have been visited from the"},{"startTime":2005.57,"endTime":2012.62,"body":"President of Iraq, Abdul Rahman"},{"startTime":2005.57,"endTime":2012.62,"body":"Arif too. And we put a"},{"startTime":2012.62,"endTime":2018.89,"body":"commemorative stone by his name"},{"startTime":2012.62,"endTime":2018.89,"body":"on the Adad Gate, still in there"},{"startTime":2018.95,"endTime":2026.66,"body":"intact. And by Gulbenkian, who"},{"startTime":2018.95,"endTime":2026.66,"body":"has a small share on the"},{"startTime":2027.11,"endTime":2036.11,"body":"IPC--Iraqi petroleum--because he"},{"startTime":2027.11,"endTime":2036.11,"body":"was the discoverer of the oil in"},{"startTime":2036.14,"endTime":2044.66,"body":"Kirkuk, and other areas. So he"},{"startTime":2036.14,"endTime":2044.66,"body":"gave me a scholarship whereby he"},{"startTime":2044.66,"endTime":2051.95,"body":"will give me a salary and give"},{"startTime":2044.66,"endTime":2051.95,"body":"my family my actual salary to"},{"startTime":2051.95,"endTime":2059.57,"body":"live. But the Baathists took"},{"startTime":2051.95,"endTime":2059.57,"body":"that from me and gave it to one"},{"startTime":2059.66,"endTime":2067.43,"body":"of the houses which they knew."},{"startTime":2059.66,"endTime":2067.43,"body":"And he came to England and"},{"startTime":2067.43,"endTime":2074.54,"body":"failed to pass his exams. And"},{"startTime":2067.43,"endTime":2074.54,"body":"they gave it to another and he"},{"startTime":2074.54,"endTime":2081.89,"body":"failed. And then they gave me a"},{"startTime":2074.54,"endTime":2081.89,"body":"university scholarship by Jalili"},{"startTime":2081.89,"endTime":2089.06,"body":"himself, just before he went out"},{"startTime":2081.89,"endTime":2089.06,"body":"of the university, and I have to"},{"startTime":2089.06,"endTime":2091.7,"body":"resign from the university."},{"startTime":2091.79,"endTime":2098.712,"body":"I come to Britain without"},{"startTime":2091.79,"endTime":2098.712,"body":"salary, to my family. I came to"},{"startTime":2098.834,"endTime":2106.242,"body":"Britain by the recommendation of"},{"startTime":2098.834,"endTime":2106.242,"body":"the late Harry Saggs, and he"},{"startTime":2106.364,"endTime":2113.408,"body":"adopted me, at that time."},{"startTime":2106.364,"endTime":2113.408,"body":"Really, adopted me like a son to"},{"startTime":2113.529,"endTime":2120.817,"body":"him. Yeah, he hasn't got sons."},{"startTime":2113.529,"endTime":2120.817,"body":"He got five daughters, but no"},{"startTime":2120.938,"endTime":2128.225,"body":"sons. So, I used to live in the"},{"startTime":2120.938,"endTime":2128.225,"body":"university hall until I went"},{"startTime":2128.347,"endTime":2135.755,"body":"back. This is my best life, to"},{"startTime":2128.347,"endTime":2135.755,"body":"be honest. My real life in the"},{"startTime":2135.877,"endTime":2143.407,"body":"university. I was very active in"},{"startTime":2135.877,"endTime":2143.407,"body":"the university. From football"},{"startTime":2143.528,"endTime":2151.058,"body":"machines to a part of the team"},{"startTime":2143.528,"endTime":2151.058,"body":"in basketball, and to the Iraqi"},{"startTime":2151.18,"endTime":2158.71,"body":"team in football, etcetera. I"},{"startTime":2151.18,"endTime":2158.71,"body":"was the head of the Arab Student"},{"startTime":2158.831,"endTime":2166.726,"body":"Society. At the same time, I was"},{"startTime":2158.831,"endTime":2166.726,"body":"the head of the student society,"},{"startTime":2166.847,"endTime":2173.891,"body":"they call it Gusir, which is"},{"startTime":2166.847,"endTime":2173.891,"body":"General Union of [Students of"},{"startTime":2174.013,"endTime":2181.786,"body":"the] Iraqi Republic. I was also"},{"startTime":2174.013,"endTime":2181.786,"body":"part of the Gilbert and Sullivan"},{"startTime":2181.907,"endTime":2189.073,"body":"choir {LAUGHS} So you can see I"},{"startTime":2181.907,"endTime":2189.073,"body":"was very active enjoying my"},{"startTime":2189.194,"endTime":2196.36,"body":"life. But at the same time, I"},{"startTime":2189.194,"endTime":2196.36,"body":"was studying. I used to study"},{"startTime":2196.481,"endTime":2202.918,"body":"all the night sometimes."},{"startTime":2196.481,"endTime":2202.918,"body":"Sometimes I forgot myself. I"},{"startTime":2203.04,"endTime":2210.205,"body":"sleep until about 10 o'clock,"},{"startTime":2203.04,"endTime":2210.205,"body":"then possibly you didn't hear"},{"startTime":2210.327,"endTime":2217.857,"body":"Saggs when he knocked the door"},{"startTime":2210.327,"endTime":2217.857,"body":"on my room. He comes and knocks"},{"startTime":2217.978,"endTime":2225.508,"body":"the door. \"Are you ill?\" I said,"},{"startTime":2217.978,"endTime":2225.508,"body":"\"no\". \"Do you eat?\" You know,"},{"startTime":2225.63,"endTime":2232.796,"body":"these things makes you more"},{"startTime":2225.63,"endTime":2232.796,"body":"attached to them. That's Saggs."},{"startTime":2232.917,"endTime":2240.69,"body":"\"Get up. Get up now\". I said to"},{"startTime":2232.917,"endTime":2240.69,"body":"him, \"I'm sorry, I was reading\"."},{"startTime":2240.811,"endTime":2248.341,"body":"I was recording at that time all"},{"startTime":2240.811,"endTime":2248.341,"body":"the texts of Nuzi on tapes. I"},{"startTime":2248.463,"endTime":2255.386,"body":"was reading the texts. He used"},{"startTime":2248.463,"endTime":2255.386,"body":"to give us six texts for a"},{"startTime":2255.507,"endTime":2263.037,"body":"month. I gave him 200 texts at"},{"startTime":2255.507,"endTime":2263.037,"body":"that time. So you can see I was"},{"startTime":2263.159,"endTime":2267.41,"body":"very active and very concentrating."},{"startTime":2267.83,"endTime":2273.08,"body":"Lambert taught us actually. He"},{"startTime":2267.83,"endTime":2273.08,"body":"wanted me to follow him and"},{"startTime":2273.08,"endTime":2280.4,"body":"these literary texts. The late"},{"startTime":2273.08,"endTime":2280.4,"body":"Lambert, I loved him until he"},{"startTime":2280.4,"endTime":2287.15,"body":"died. Before he died, he came to"},{"startTime":2280.4,"endTime":2287.15,"body":"the Museum. And I kissed him,"},{"startTime":2287.24,"endTime":2293.66,"body":"because I can feel his illness"},{"startTime":2287.24,"endTime":2293.66,"body":"at that time. Anyway, this is"},{"startTime":2293.69,"endTime":2303.2,"body":"part of my life in Britain. And"},{"startTime":2293.69,"endTime":2303.2,"body":"I had an MA first. My study of"},{"startTime":2303.23,"endTime":2308.66,"body":"the MA at Cardiff was Semitic"},{"startTime":2303.23,"endTime":2308.66,"body":"languages, and Religious"},{"startTime":2308.72,"endTime":2316.25,"body":"Studies. Saggs taught us, to be"},{"startTime":2308.72,"endTime":2316.25,"body":"more precise. He taught me"},{"startTime":2316.4,"endTime":2327.71,"body":"Latin, Greek, Ugaritic, Hebrew,"},{"startTime":2316.4,"endTime":2327.71,"body":"Aramaic, Syriac, and Akkadian"},{"startTime":2327.98,"endTime":2339.05,"body":"and Sumerian. He taught me very"},{"startTime":2327.98,"endTime":2339.05,"body":"advanced in Sumerian. Because he"},{"startTime":2339.05,"endTime":2343.07,"body":"taught us the large cones of"},{"startTime":2339.05,"endTime":2343.07,"body":"Gudea."},{"startTime":2344.54,"endTime":2349.04,"body":"You know, Greek, I was on the"},{"startTime":2344.54,"endTime":2349.04,"body":"top of the class at that time."},{"startTime":2349.91,"endTime":2355.67,"body":"Greek and Latin. He didn't teach"},{"startTime":2349.91,"endTime":2355.67,"body":"me Greek and Latin. There was a"},{"startTime":2355.67,"endTime":2363.05,"body":"scholar called Ap Roberts. There"},{"startTime":2355.67,"endTime":2363.05,"body":"is one who taught me Aramaic,"},{"startTime":2363.05,"endTime":2368.39,"body":"especially Daniel and other"},{"startTime":2363.05,"endTime":2368.39,"body":"parts of Aramaic, which I"},{"startTime":2368.39,"endTime":2373.67,"body":"presented him actually with a"},{"startTime":2368.39,"endTime":2373.67,"body":"very nice Aramaic letter I"},{"startTime":2373.67,"endTime":2380.87,"body":"discovered at Adad gate. And I"},{"startTime":2373.67,"endTime":2380.87,"body":"copied that and gave it to him."},{"startTime":2381.59,"endTime":2389.33,"body":"His name is Mr. Rawlins. I have"},{"startTime":2381.59,"endTime":2389.33,"body":"been taught some biblical"},{"startTime":2389.33,"endTime":2395.72,"body":"Hebrew. Saggs taught me about"},{"startTime":2389.33,"endTime":2395.72,"body":"the ones where Sennacherib and"},{"startTime":2395.78,"endTime":2401.75,"body":"Nebuchadnezzar was mentioned in"},{"startTime":2395.78,"endTime":2401.75,"body":"the Bible. There was a priest."},{"startTime":2402.05,"endTime":2407.9,"body":"He was mainly in India and in"},{"startTime":2402.05,"endTime":2407.9,"body":"the Middle East. His name is"},{"startTime":2407.96,"endTime":2414.68,"body":"Ryder. He taught me Syriac and"},{"startTime":2407.96,"endTime":2414.68,"body":"the Hebrew psalms. {RECITES"},{"startTime":2414.68,"endTime":2425.69,"body":"HEBREW} I still remember these"},{"startTime":2414.68,"endTime":2425.69,"body":"phrases. His name was Ryder. And"},{"startTime":2425.69,"endTime":2431.81,"body":"he was brilliant in Syriac"},{"startTime":2425.69,"endTime":2431.81,"body":"grammar. Actually he presented"},{"startTime":2431.81,"endTime":2436.07,"body":"me with his library before he"},{"startTime":2431.81,"endTime":2436.07,"body":"died."},{"startTime":2437.21,"endTime":2443.45,"body":"And one of the nice things also"},{"startTime":2437.21,"endTime":2443.45,"body":"during my study in Syriac, the"},{"startTime":2443.45,"endTime":2451.82,"body":"one which I told you, there were"},{"startTime":2443.45,"endTime":2451.82,"body":"I think about 12 students, and"},{"startTime":2451.82,"endTime":2458.03,"body":"mostly Jewish students from"},{"startTime":2451.82,"endTime":2458.03,"body":"America, from Britain--Cooper"},{"startTime":2458.54,"endTime":2462.23,"body":"and others, they all studied"},{"startTime":2458.54,"endTime":2462.23,"body":"with Saggs for a while. {LAUGHS}"},{"startTime":2463.7,"endTime":2469.67,"body":"He used to ask a question about"},{"startTime":2463.7,"endTime":2469.67,"body":"a word. He always directed his"},{"startTime":2469.67,"endTime":2476.63,"body":"speech to me. And he will say,"},{"startTime":2469.67,"endTime":2476.63,"body":"\"what is this, Farouk?\" And I"},{"startTime":2476.63,"endTime":2481.79,"body":"will answer him in comparison"},{"startTime":2476.63,"endTime":2481.79,"body":"with Arabic. But sometimes I"},{"startTime":2481.79,"endTime":2487.73,"body":"have a mistake. And he doesn't"},{"startTime":2481.79,"endTime":2487.73,"body":"say to me, \"what? Did you say"},{"startTime":2487.73,"endTime":2493.37,"body":"that, Farouk? Did you say--let"},{"startTime":2487.73,"endTime":2493.37,"body":"us say--nasaru?\"  I say \"yes\", I"},{"startTime":2493.37,"endTime":2499.19,"body":"don't say \"no\". So the students"},{"startTime":2493.37,"endTime":2499.19,"body":"go mad about that."},{"startTime":2502.46,"endTime":2510.5,"body":"My PhD is about new texts from"},{"startTime":2502.46,"endTime":2510.5,"body":"Tell al-Fahhar. Tell al-Fahhar"},{"startTime":2511.34,"endTime":2521.12,"body":"is Guruhani. And Nuzi texts,"},{"startTime":2511.34,"endTime":2521.12,"body":"this is my speciality: studies"},{"startTime":2521.15,"endTime":2528.26,"body":"in the commercial life of an"},{"startTime":2521.15,"endTime":2528.26,"body":"administrative area of eastern"},{"startTime":2528.32,"endTime":2536.24,"body":"Assyria in the 15th century BC,"},{"startTime":2528.32,"endTime":2536.24,"body":"based on published and"},{"startTime":2536.3,"endTime":2539.63,"body":"unpublished cuneiform texts."},{"startTime":2541.67,"endTime":2548.99,"body":"At that time, the computer was a"},{"startTime":2541.67,"endTime":2548.99,"body":"whole building in the University"},{"startTime":2548.99,"endTime":2556.91,"body":"of Cardiff. I entered in"},{"startTime":2548.99,"endTime":2556.91,"body":"punching cards. Saggs told me,"},{"startTime":2556.91,"endTime":2564.35,"body":"because he saw my ability and so"},{"startTime":2556.91,"endTime":2564.35,"body":"on, \"go and found all cities in"},{"startTime":2564.35,"endTime":2572.69,"body":"Nuzi texts. Nuzi texts about"},{"startTime":2564.35,"endTime":2572.69,"body":"something around 15,000 texts. I"},{"startTime":2572.72,"endTime":2578.81,"body":"made by punching cards. I"},{"startTime":2572.72,"endTime":2578.81,"body":"learned from Iraqi engineers how"},{"startTime":2578.81,"endTime":2585.14,"body":"to computerise on that building."},{"startTime":2578.81,"endTime":2585.14,"body":"After about six months, I"},{"startTime":2585.14,"endTime":2590.9,"body":"finished the project and took it"},{"startTime":2585.14,"endTime":2590.9,"body":"to him. He said to me, \"Farouk,"},{"startTime":2590.96,"endTime":2598.04,"body":"you finish this, but you go now"},{"startTime":2590.96,"endTime":2598.04,"body":"and find all the animals at"},{"startTime":2598.04,"endTime":2605.63,"body":"Nuzi\". So I was mad. I said to"},{"startTime":2598.04,"endTime":2605.63,"body":"him, \"look, I want to go back\"."},{"startTime":2606.26,"endTime":2611.72,"body":"Because I was so tired. I said"},{"startTime":2606.26,"endTime":2611.72,"body":"to him, \"I want to go back, I"},{"startTime":2611.72,"endTime":2618.53,"body":"want to go home\". He said, \"you"},{"startTime":2611.72,"endTime":2618.53,"body":"are very good\" and so on. \"I can"},{"startTime":2618.53,"endTime":2623.78,"body":"give you your degree, but you"},{"startTime":2618.53,"endTime":2623.78,"body":"won't learn as much\". Anyway, he"},{"startTime":2623.78,"endTime":2626.81,"body":"persuaded me and I stayed."},{"startTime":2628.25,"endTime":2634.19,"body":"One of the people which I didn't"},{"startTime":2628.25,"endTime":2634.19,"body":"mention who has an impact on my"},{"startTime":2634.25,"endTime":2641.63,"body":"life, he was studying with me."},{"startTime":2634.25,"endTime":2641.63,"body":"Of course, I saved him in Iraq"},{"startTime":2641.66,"endTime":2649.55,"body":"from trouble. His name was"},{"startTime":2641.66,"endTime":2649.55,"body":"Martin Sillman. He was studying"},{"startTime":2649.58,"endTime":2658.82,"body":"with Saggs on burials, and cult"},{"startTime":2649.58,"endTime":2658.82,"body":"of death. And he was very kind"},{"startTime":2658.82,"endTime":2664.28,"body":"the friend, he's a religious"},{"startTime":2658.82,"endTime":2664.28,"body":"friend, and he always respected"},{"startTime":2664.31,"endTime":2674.06,"body":"me for what I did. When I"},{"startTime":2664.31,"endTime":2674.06,"body":"finished my degree, I made them"},{"startTime":2674.18,"endTime":2683.45,"body":"a huge feast with lamb stuffed"},{"startTime":2674.18,"endTime":2683.45,"body":"with rice, raisins, almonds,"},{"startTime":2683.75,"endTime":2689.36,"body":"etc. {LAUGHS} I invited all of"},{"startTime":2683.75,"endTime":2689.36,"body":"them and they were there. All."},{"startTime":2690.5,"endTime":2696.35,"body":"Saggs, Rawlins, Ap Roberts."},{"startTime":2690.5,"endTime":2696.35,"body":"These are the people who taught"},{"startTime":2696.38,"endTime":2704.24,"body":"me. And I left his book to John"},{"startTime":2696.38,"endTime":2704.24,"body":"Healy. When he just graduated,"},{"startTime":2704.24,"endTime":2711.41,"body":"he was studying then; he"},{"startTime":2704.24,"endTime":2711.41,"body":"graduated too in Cardiff. And he"},{"startTime":2711.41,"endTime":2717.23,"body":"studied with Saggs for a while."},{"startTime":2711.41,"endTime":2717.23,"body":"And he was most kind and like"},{"startTime":2717.8,"endTime":2724.67,"body":"his family and my family. By the"},{"startTime":2717.8,"endTime":2724.67,"body":"way, my external examiner was"},{"startTime":2724.7,"endTime":2733.37,"body":"Millard of Liverpool. I came"},{"startTime":2724.7,"endTime":2733.37,"body":"back to England at that time,"},{"startTime":2733.88,"endTime":2740.09,"body":"and I met Max Mallowan, via the"},{"startTime":2733.88,"endTime":2740.09,"body":"School of Archaeology. Saggs"},{"startTime":2740.12,"endTime":2746.66,"body":"took me and introduced me to"},{"startTime":2740.12,"endTime":2746.66,"body":"him. This was the great moment"},{"startTime":2746.69,"endTime":2753.86,"body":"of my life at that time. You put"},{"startTime":2746.69,"endTime":2753.86,"body":"these people in front of you,"},{"startTime":2754.43,"endTime":2761.0,"body":"David Oates, Max Mallowan,"},{"startTime":2754.43,"endTime":2761.0,"body":"Mellaart, and Millard,, and"},{"startTime":2761.48,"endTime":2766.82,"body":"Lambert, and Saggs. You know,"},{"startTime":2761.48,"endTime":2766.82,"body":"you put them on your mind when"},{"startTime":2766.82,"endTime":2768.2,"body":"you excavate."},{"startTime":2770.42,"endTime":2774.74,"body":"Eventually, the time came for"},{"startTime":2770.42,"endTime":2774.74,"body":"Farouk to return to Iraq."},{"startTime":2776.0,"endTime":2785.33,"body":"I know my wife since '72/'73,"},{"startTime":2776.0,"endTime":2785.33,"body":"and married in '77. And then"},{"startTime":2785.36,"endTime":2793.67,"body":"depart to Iraq. I was in Mosul,"},{"startTime":2785.36,"endTime":2793.67,"body":"and they knew of my activity in"},{"startTime":2793.7,"endTime":2800.96,"body":"Cardiff. In Mosul, one of my"},{"startTime":2793.7,"endTime":2800.96,"body":"students is Professor Dr. Ali"},{"startTime":2800.96,"endTime":2807.05,"body":"Yassin. I trained him in"},{"startTime":2800.96,"endTime":2807.05,"body":"excavation at Tarbisu. I trained"},{"startTime":2807.08,"endTime":2813.11,"body":"many students at Tarbisu. We"},{"startTime":2807.08,"endTime":2813.11,"body":"used to have about 40 students"},{"startTime":2813.17,"endTime":2821.99,"body":"every year in archaeology. I had"},{"startTime":2813.17,"endTime":2821.99,"body":"my late brother, he was a high"},{"startTime":2821.99,"endTime":2828.8,"body":"ranking officer. And he was the"},{"startTime":2821.99,"endTime":2828.8,"body":"organiser of Saddam Hussein's"},{"startTime":2828.83,"endTime":2835.61,"body":"bodyguards. He studied in"},{"startTime":2828.83,"endTime":2835.61,"body":"Russia, I mean, the Soviet Union"},{"startTime":2835.61,"endTime":2842.48,"body":"at that time, Russia, and he"},{"startTime":2835.61,"endTime":2842.48,"body":"studied also in Cuba, and he"},{"startTime":2842.48,"endTime":2854.24,"body":"served in India. So he's like a"},{"startTime":2842.48,"endTime":2854.24,"body":"bodyguard for me. {LAUGHS} By"},{"startTime":2854.24,"endTime":2862.55,"body":"his kindness and by the trouble"},{"startTime":2854.24,"endTime":2862.55,"body":"I had from some people in Mosul,"},{"startTime":2862.61,"endTime":2871.91,"body":"he moved me to Baghdad. And"},{"startTime":2862.61,"endTime":2871.91,"body":"since then, I was lecturer, then"},{"startTime":2872.0,"endTime":2878.75,"body":"assistant professor, then"},{"startTime":2872.0,"endTime":2878.75,"body":"professor and head of department"},{"startTime":2878.93,"endTime":2880.01,"body":"at Baghdad."},{"startTime":2880.79,"endTime":2887.943,"body":"Of course, I never forgot my"},{"startTime":2880.79,"endTime":2887.943,"body":"friends in the British School of"},{"startTime":2888.06,"endTime":2894.627,"body":"Archaeology. From Nicholas"},{"startTime":2888.06,"endTime":2894.627,"body":"Postgate, Michael Roaf, their"},{"startTime":2894.744,"endTime":2901.663,"body":"families, and the late Jeremy,"},{"startTime":2894.744,"endTime":2901.663,"body":"which used to visit us every"},{"startTime":2901.78,"endTime":2908.933,"body":"Eid--Eid is the feast--and bring"},{"startTime":2901.78,"endTime":2908.933,"body":"presents to the children. He"},{"startTime":2909.05,"endTime":2915.851,"body":"helped us to get a house from"},{"startTime":2909.05,"endTime":2915.851,"body":"the council in Great Dunmow."},{"startTime":2915.969,"endTime":2922.536,"body":"This is after we returned to"},{"startTime":2915.969,"endTime":2922.536,"body":"Britain. I always say Great"},{"startTime":2922.653,"endTime":2929.571,"body":"Britain. And once in Wales, when"},{"startTime":2922.653,"endTime":2929.571,"body":"I was in Wales, there is a"},{"startTime":2929.689,"endTime":2936.724,"body":"newspaper called The Echo. They"},{"startTime":2929.689,"endTime":2936.724,"body":"told, \"why do you say 'Great"},{"startTime":2936.842,"endTime":2943.291,"body":"Britain' always?\" I said,"},{"startTime":2936.842,"endTime":2943.291,"body":"\"either the United Kingdom or"},{"startTime":2943.409,"endTime":2950.327,"body":"Great Britain\". But I said"},{"startTime":2943.409,"endTime":2950.327,"body":"\"great\" because of the greatness"},{"startTime":2950.444,"endTime":2957.832,"body":"of the labour movement at that"},{"startTime":2950.444,"endTime":2957.832,"body":"time. {LAUGHS} I ... I met many,"},{"startTime":2957.949,"endTime":2964.516,"body":"many politicians in my life in"},{"startTime":2957.949,"endTime":2964.516,"body":"Wales. There was one from"},{"startTime":2964.633,"endTime":2971.904,"body":"Bridgend who helped to form the"},{"startTime":2964.633,"endTime":2971.904,"body":"Communist Party in Iraq. And I"},{"startTime":2972.021,"endTime":2979.174,"body":"met the head of Bert Pearce and"},{"startTime":2972.021,"endTime":2979.174,"body":"others in Cardiff itself, the"},{"startTime":2979.291,"endTime":2985.741,"body":"leadership. And because of my"},{"startTime":2979.291,"endTime":2985.741,"body":"position as the head of a"},{"startTime":2985.858,"endTime":2991.37,"body":"student society of the Arabs and"},{"startTime":2985.858,"endTime":2991.37,"body":"of the Iraqis."},{"startTime":2993.68,"endTime":2999.62,"body":"In Baghdad, I used to take the"},{"startTime":2993.68,"endTime":2999.62,"body":"students to Sippar and work on"},{"startTime":2999.62,"endTime":3007.15,"body":"the site. Very special site. We"},{"startTime":2999.62,"endTime":3007.15,"body":"worked on a special area for the"},{"startTime":3007.15,"endTime":3015.94,"body":"students, which extended from"},{"startTime":3007.15,"endTime":3015.94,"body":"Sasanian, Parthian, to New"},{"startTime":3015.97,"endTime":3024.13,"body":"Babylonian, Kassite, to Old"},{"startTime":3015.97,"endTime":3024.13,"body":"Babylonian, to Ur Three, and to"},{"startTime":3024.28,"endTime":3031.0,"body":"Akkadian and beyond. We have a"},{"startTime":3024.28,"endTime":3031.0,"body":"trench, and on the trench, it"},{"startTime":3031.06,"endTime":3038.71,"body":"occurred a kind of earthquake."},{"startTime":3031.06,"endTime":3038.71,"body":"If you have layers like these."},{"startTime":3039.01,"endTime":3044.47,"body":"And then one of the layers"},{"startTime":3039.01,"endTime":3044.47,"body":"during the Akkadian period, the"},{"startTime":3044.5,"endTime":3050.5,"body":"earth was trembled, and you"},{"startTime":3044.5,"endTime":3050.5,"body":"still can see the crack on the"},{"startTime":3050.5,"endTime":3056.59,"body":"section. After that, I have to"},{"startTime":3050.5,"endTime":3056.59,"body":"study these things. I did the"},{"startTime":3056.59,"endTime":3063.1,"body":"study actually, for the Iraqi"},{"startTime":3056.59,"endTime":3063.1,"body":"nuclear. They want to choose a"},{"startTime":3063.1,"endTime":3071.62,"body":"nuclear site. So I did a study"},{"startTime":3063.1,"endTime":3071.62,"body":"for them: where the earthquakes"},{"startTime":3071.71,"endTime":3078.43,"body":"occurred during the ancient"},{"startTime":3071.71,"endTime":3078.43,"body":"history, Islamic history. There"},{"startTime":3078.43,"endTime":3086.26,"body":"is a beautiful text of course"},{"startTime":3078.43,"endTime":3086.26,"body":"from Nuzi. It is, well, my main"},{"startTime":3086.26,"endTime":3088.6,"body":"subject, which is Nuzi."},{"startTime":3090.43,"endTime":3094.48,"body":"During his time in Baghdad,"},{"startTime":3090.43,"endTime":3094.48,"body":"Farouk played a key role in one"},{"startTime":3094.48,"endTime":3097.66,"body":"of the most significant moments"},{"startTime":3094.48,"endTime":3097.66,"body":"for archaeology in Iraq."},{"startTime":3098.2,"endTime":3101.32,"body":"University of Baghdad"},{"startTime":3098.2,"endTime":3101.32,"body":"excavations at Sippar in the"},{"startTime":3101.35,"endTime":3106.87,"body":"1980s found a library of the"},{"startTime":3101.35,"endTime":3106.87,"body":"Ebabbar temple with cuneiform"},{"startTime":3106.87,"endTime":3109.51,"body":"tablets still arranged on the"},{"startTime":3106.87,"endTime":3109.51,"body":"shelves."},{"startTime":3110.71,"endTime":3116.86,"body":"I was actually the head of the"},{"startTime":3110.71,"endTime":3116.86,"body":"expedition at that time. They"},{"startTime":3116.86,"endTime":3122.8,"body":"were excavating merely by the"},{"startTime":3116.86,"endTime":3122.8,"body":"suggestion of the late Taha"},{"startTime":3122.8,"endTime":3129.28,"body":"Baqir. They excavated in private"},{"startTime":3122.8,"endTime":3129.28,"body":"houses away from the temple."},{"startTime":3130.87,"endTime":3138.76,"body":"When I become the head of the"},{"startTime":3130.87,"endTime":3138.76,"body":"expedition in 1979, because"},{"startTime":3138.79,"endTime":3145.27,"body":"Walid gave up the expedition, at"},{"startTime":3138.79,"endTime":3145.27,"body":"that time, I went to the temple"},{"startTime":3145.48,"endTime":3153.88,"body":"and opened the excavation. I saw"},{"startTime":3145.48,"endTime":3153.88,"body":"a huge mound of debris over the"},{"startTime":3153.88,"endTime":3163.15,"body":"library itself. By reading about"},{"startTime":3153.88,"endTime":3163.15,"body":"Rassam, about Budge, about"},{"startTime":3163.3,"endTime":3171.49,"body":"others who excavated there, you"},{"startTime":3163.3,"endTime":3171.49,"body":"have an idea. And by having seen"},{"startTime":3171.67,"endTime":3180.91,"body":"the map of Rassam, I put it on"},{"startTime":3171.67,"endTime":3180.91,"body":"my mind. I went to the area, and"},{"startTime":3180.97,"endTime":3188.77,"body":"opened excavation there. After I"},{"startTime":3180.97,"endTime":3188.77,"body":"myself drove the shovel to"},{"startTime":3188.77,"endTime":3196.33,"body":"remove the debris. And this is"},{"startTime":3188.77,"endTime":3196.33,"body":"the beginning of the discovery."},{"startTime":3196.33,"endTime":3203.02,"body":"But I went from the back"},{"startTime":3196.33,"endTime":3203.02,"body":"entrance or the northern"},{"startTime":3203.08,"endTime":3210.58,"body":"entrance of the Ebabbar, and"},{"startTime":3203.08,"endTime":3210.58,"body":"entered into the temple of Ayya,"},{"startTime":3211.75,"endTime":3218.5,"body":"his wife, beside him. Not very"},{"startTime":3211.75,"endTime":3218.5,"body":"far from the ziggurat. By"},{"startTime":3218.5,"endTime":3224.98,"body":"entering that area, over the"},{"startTime":3218.5,"endTime":3224.98,"body":"actual library, we discovered"},{"startTime":3225.16,"endTime":3232.0,"body":"the text which I published in"},{"startTime":3225.16,"endTime":3232.0,"body":"Iraq with Wayne Horowitz, an"},{"startTime":3232.0,"endTime":3240.4,"body":"astrolabe. There is a courtyard"},{"startTime":3232.0,"endTime":3240.4,"body":"in front of the library. It"},{"startTime":3240.4,"endTime":3248.14,"body":"seems that Rassam or the other"},{"startTime":3240.4,"endTime":3248.14,"body":"excavators carried out most of"},{"startTime":3248.17,"endTime":3253.42,"body":"the contents of the courtyard."},{"startTime":3248.17,"endTime":3253.42,"body":"But they didn't enter the"},{"startTime":3253.42,"endTime":3260.95,"body":"library because of the heap of"},{"startTime":3253.42,"endTime":3260.95,"body":"earth over it. So when we"},{"startTime":3260.95,"endTime":3266.71,"body":"discovered that, we went into"},{"startTime":3260.95,"endTime":3266.71,"body":"that--Zuhair Rajab the"},{"startTime":3266.71,"endTime":3276.28,"body":"excavator, and others--we went"},{"startTime":3266.71,"endTime":3276.28,"body":"into the temple of Ayya. I first"},{"startTime":3276.28,"endTime":3282.31,"body":"concentrated on the temenos of"},{"startTime":3276.28,"endTime":3282.31,"body":"the temple and tried to go"},{"startTime":3282.31,"endTime":3286.72,"body":"through because it wasn't"},{"startTime":3282.31,"endTime":3286.72,"body":"excavated by Rassam and the"},{"startTime":3288.04,"endTime":3290.89,"body":"others--Scheil, Rassam and the"},{"startTime":3288.04,"endTime":3290.89,"body":"others."},{"startTime":3292.99,"endTime":3300.76,"body":"The year after, i.e., '79, we"},{"startTime":3292.99,"endTime":3300.76,"body":"went into the library because of"},{"startTime":3300.85,"endTime":3309.34,"body":"our work. Because we found a"},{"startTime":3300.85,"endTime":3309.34,"body":"lexical text at the door. We"},{"startTime":3309.43,"endTime":3316.51,"body":"have also found one of the texts"},{"startTime":3309.43,"endTime":3316.51,"body":"which I published in Iraq, a"},{"startTime":3316.54,"endTime":3322.72,"body":"Shu-ilim text. It's a small text"},{"startTime":3316.54,"endTime":3322.72,"body":"of Shu-ilim. A stamp, actually,"},{"startTime":3323.08,"endTime":3329.5,"body":"from the Akkadian period. So we"},{"startTime":3323.08,"endTime":3329.5,"body":"entered the library, emptied it,"},{"startTime":3329.95,"endTime":3337.63,"body":"and see with the meticulous"},{"startTime":3329.95,"endTime":3337.63,"body":"works of Zuhair Rajab and an"},{"startTime":3337.63,"endTime":3345.49,"body":"excavator from Sherqat, Ilhan"},{"startTime":3337.63,"endTime":3345.49,"body":"Edha, we entered the library."},{"startTime":3346.39,"endTime":3353.11,"body":"And we discovered the pigeon"},{"startTime":3346.39,"endTime":3353.11,"body":"holes, one after the other."},{"startTime":3355.3,"endTime":3363.94,"body":"Well, I started by cleaning the"},{"startTime":3355.3,"endTime":3363.94,"body":"texts myself. And by gluing"},{"startTime":3364.0,"endTime":3373.54,"body":"together the actual texts. Via"},{"startTime":3364.0,"endTime":3373.54,"body":"that, I always read what we"},{"startTime":3373.54,"endTime":3383.29,"body":"have. We went through it bit by"},{"startTime":3373.54,"endTime":3383.29,"body":"bit, and it was around the whole"},{"startTime":3383.38,"endTime":3389.98,"body":"room, these pigeon holes. Some"},{"startTime":3383.38,"endTime":3389.98,"body":"of them were empty. Some were"},{"startTime":3389.98,"endTime":3396.28,"body":"filled with cylinders of"},{"startTime":3389.98,"endTime":3396.28,"body":"Nabonidus and others."},{"startTime":3397.63,"endTime":3405.46,"body":"And when I cleaned the texts,"},{"startTime":3397.63,"endTime":3405.46,"body":"glued them, and varnished them,"},{"startTime":3406.0,"endTime":3411.34,"body":"preserved them in some way or"},{"startTime":3406.0,"endTime":3411.34,"body":"another, until we will bake them"},{"startTime":3411.34,"endTime":3415.81,"body":"in the [Iraq] Museum. But it"},{"startTime":3411.34,"endTime":3415.81,"body":"never happened apart from the"},{"startTime":3415.81,"endTime":3423.94,"body":"last season, where we picked up"},{"startTime":3415.81,"endTime":3423.94,"body":"some of the texts baked by the"},{"startTime":3423.94,"endTime":3429.49,"body":"Museum with the help of an"},{"startTime":3423.94,"endTime":3429.49,"body":"American, MacGuire Gibson,"},{"startTime":3429.52,"endTime":3437.95,"body":"brought to the Museum. After a"},{"startTime":3429.52,"endTime":3437.95,"body":"while, the president of the"},{"startTime":3437.95,"endTime":3444.7,"body":"university, An-na'ami his name,"},{"startTime":3437.95,"endTime":3444.7,"body":"asked me to give a lecture about"},{"startTime":3444.73,"endTime":3453.37,"body":"these texts. I started my"},{"startTime":3444.73,"endTime":3453.37,"body":"lecture with the contents of the"},{"startTime":3453.37,"endTime":3461.02,"body":"texts; that there were literary"},{"startTime":3453.37,"endTime":3461.02,"body":"texts, apart from a few"},{"startTime":3461.29,"endTime":3469.84,"body":"administrative texts. About five"},{"startTime":3461.29,"endTime":3469.84,"body":"or six administrative texts. The"},{"startTime":3469.84,"endTime":3478.18,"body":"library as a whole, where the"},{"startTime":3469.84,"endTime":3478.18,"body":"texts amount to about 450 texts."},{"startTime":3479.26,"endTime":3487.48,"body":"Up to 800 with the fragments and"},{"startTime":3479.26,"endTime":3487.48,"body":"so on. So, when I examined"},{"startTime":3487.48,"endTime":3494.53,"body":"especially some colophons, I"},{"startTime":3487.48,"endTime":3494.53,"body":"discovered that the texts"},{"startTime":3494.68,"endTime":3502.48,"body":"extended from Sumerian,"},{"startTime":3494.68,"endTime":3502.48,"body":"Akkadian, until New Babylonian"},{"startTime":3502.6,"endTime":3513.73,"body":"periods. I then told them about"},{"startTime":3502.6,"endTime":3513.73,"body":"the use of the library. I found"},{"startTime":3513.73,"endTime":3521.71,"body":"that the library was used from"},{"startTime":3513.73,"endTime":3521.71,"body":"the time of Adad-apla-iddina to"},{"startTime":3521.71,"endTime":3526.78,"body":"the time of Kambisiamush,"},{"startTime":3521.71,"endTime":3526.78,"body":"Cambyses."},{"startTime":3528.64,"endTime":3533.17,"body":"By the 1990s, the situation in"},{"startTime":3528.64,"endTime":3533.17,"body":"Baghdad had become very"},{"startTime":3533.17,"endTime":3533.83,"body":"difficult."},{"startTime":3535.63,"endTime":3543.49,"body":"And I stayed until '92. I was"},{"startTime":3535.63,"endTime":3543.49,"body":"the head of department. They"},{"startTime":3543.49,"endTime":3550.84,"body":"used to bring me every week and"},{"startTime":3543.49,"endTime":3550.84,"body":"take me to a military official"},{"startTime":3550.93,"endTime":3556.27,"body":"in the college. And he started"},{"startTime":3550.93,"endTime":3556.27,"body":"to question me from the morning"},{"startTime":3556.3,"endTime":3563.05,"body":"till the evening. We can remove"},{"startTime":3556.3,"endTime":3563.05,"body":"you and put you in an office, in"},{"startTime":3563.05,"endTime":3583.18,"body":"electricity or ... I said to"},{"startTime":3563.05,"endTime":3583.18,"body":"him, \"look, if I have any faults"},{"startTime":3583.24,"endTime":3590.86,"body":"or doing against any of your"},{"startTime":3583.24,"endTime":3590.86,"body":"party, then you can judge me."},{"startTime":3591.13,"endTime":3597.31,"body":"But if you move me to"},{"startTime":3591.13,"endTime":3597.31,"body":"electricity department or to"},{"startTime":3597.31,"endTime":3604.03,"body":"another department, I will sit"},{"startTime":3597.31,"endTime":3604.03,"body":"behind a table and work"},{"startTime":3604.12,"endTime":3609.55,"body":"sincerely better than you and"},{"startTime":3604.12,"endTime":3609.55,"body":"your father!\" This is our way in"},{"startTime":3609.79,"endTime":3616.09,"body":"Arabic. So, after '92, we"},{"startTime":3609.79,"endTime":3616.09,"body":"couldn't live. You know, you go"},{"startTime":3616.09,"endTime":3621.7,"body":"for an egg for the children. And"},{"startTime":3616.09,"endTime":3621.7,"body":"you can't really get it unless"},{"startTime":3621.7,"endTime":3626.83,"body":"via them. So this is what"},{"startTime":3621.7,"endTime":3626.83,"body":"happened. And this is why I left"},{"startTime":3626.86,"endTime":3632.02,"body":"from Iraq. Nothing more, nothing"},{"startTime":3626.86,"endTime":3632.02,"body":"less."},{"startTime":3632.98,"endTime":3636.1,"body":"Farouk remained very strongly"},{"startTime":3632.98,"endTime":3636.1,"body":"connected with Iraqi"},{"startTime":3636.1,"endTime":3640.21,"body":"assyriology. In more recent"},{"startTime":3636.1,"endTime":3640.21,"body":"years, he's been working for the"},{"startTime":3640.21,"endTime":3643.03,"body":"museum in Suleimaniyah,"},{"startTime":3640.21,"endTime":3643.03,"body":"cataloguing the collection"},{"startTime":3643.03,"endTime":3643.33,"body":"there."},{"startTime":3644.62,"endTime":3653.47,"body":"Yeah, well, in Sulaimaniyah I"},{"startTime":3644.62,"endTime":3653.47,"body":"have been invited 2007/08 and"},{"startTime":3653.5,"endTime":3662.08,"body":"beyond. I went there, and they"},{"startTime":3653.5,"endTime":3662.08,"body":"have a collection. I started"},{"startTime":3662.08,"endTime":3669.22,"body":"working systematically from the"},{"startTime":3662.08,"endTime":3669.22,"body":"morning, till the early morning"},{"startTime":3669.25,"endTime":3677.71,"body":"of the night. From dusk to dawn."},{"startTime":3669.25,"endTime":3677.71,"body":"{LAUGHS} I started like a"},{"startTime":3677.71,"endTime":3684.79,"body":"database for them. I was going"},{"startTime":3677.71,"endTime":3684.79,"body":"to write it in English, so the"},{"startTime":3684.82,"endTime":3691.51,"body":"wider people can benefit from"},{"startTime":3684.82,"endTime":3691.51,"body":"that. But at the end, I did it"},{"startTime":3691.51,"endTime":3701.02,"body":"in Arabic. So I went to through"},{"startTime":3691.51,"endTime":3701.02,"body":"something like 8000 texts, and"},{"startTime":3701.17,"endTime":3711.25,"body":"1000 or so of bricks, and about"},{"startTime":3701.17,"endTime":3711.25,"body":"more than 1000 of cones from"},{"startTime":3711.25,"endTime":3720.73,"body":"Sumerian until Old Babylonian"},{"startTime":3711.25,"endTime":3720.73,"body":"and others. So I started, like I"},{"startTime":3720.73,"endTime":3727.48,"body":"started at Sippar, as I told"},{"startTime":3720.73,"endTime":3727.48,"body":"you, by examining the texts, and"},{"startTime":3727.6,"endTime":3735.97,"body":"try to read any text and"},{"startTime":3727.6,"endTime":3735.97,"body":"identify it. We have a horde of"},{"startTime":3736.0,"endTime":3742.99,"body":"Sumerian literary texts,"},{"startTime":3736.0,"endTime":3742.99,"body":"extending from the story of the"},{"startTime":3742.99,"endTime":3753.61,"body":"Hoe to Lugalbanda and the"},{"startTime":3742.99,"endTime":3753.61,"body":"Mountain to the Hymn of Kesh and"},{"startTime":3753.7,"endTime":3762.28,"body":"the hymn for the Entering of"},{"startTime":3753.7,"endTime":3762.28,"body":"Enlil to the Ekur, to Inanna and"},{"startTime":3762.76,"endTime":3768.7,"body":"Ebih. And these are the main"},{"startTime":3762.76,"endTime":3768.7,"body":"corpus of Sumerian literary"},{"startTime":3768.7,"endTime":3769.45,"body":"texts."},{"startTime":3770.23,"endTime":3777.31,"body":"I was under the support of the"},{"startTime":3770.23,"endTime":3777.31,"body":"First Lady at that time, Hero"},{"startTime":3777.31,"endTime":3785.44,"body":"Ibrahim Ahmed, the wife of the"},{"startTime":3777.31,"endTime":3785.44,"body":"late Talabani. And she gave me"},{"startTime":3785.44,"endTime":3792.73,"body":"what I need. It's just food and"},{"startTime":3785.44,"endTime":3792.73,"body":"tickets. I catalogued the first"},{"startTime":3792.73,"endTime":3801.1,"body":"500 for the UNESCO when they"},{"startTime":3792.73,"endTime":3801.1,"body":"wanted to build a room. I taught"},{"startTime":3801.31,"endTime":3808.72,"body":"workers of the Museum, but you"},{"startTime":3801.31,"endTime":3808.72,"body":"know, they have to go to"},{"startTime":3808.72,"endTime":3814.06,"body":"excavations, because the foreign"},{"startTime":3808.72,"endTime":3814.06,"body":"expeditions give them money."},{"startTime":3814.81,"endTime":3820.03,"body":"They leave you at the middle of"},{"startTime":3814.81,"endTime":3820.03,"body":"their learning. Now, in"},{"startTime":3820.15,"endTime":3825.61,"body":"Suleimaniyah, they opened a"},{"startTime":3820.15,"endTime":3825.61,"body":"department. We have a collection"},{"startTime":3825.64,"endTime":3834.46,"body":"of Akkadian texts. Some of them"},{"startTime":3825.64,"endTime":3834.46,"body":"they were muddled and tried to"},{"startTime":3834.49,"endTime":3840.73,"body":"form them modernly to make them"},{"startTime":3834.49,"endTime":3840.73,"body":"full texts. These are a problem"},{"startTime":3840.82,"endTime":3844.15,"body":"which we can't solve. We haven't"},{"startTime":3840.82,"endTime":3844.15,"body":"got a kiln."},{"startTime":3844.93,"endTime":3852.52,"body":"I myself identified many"},{"startTime":3844.93,"endTime":3852.52,"body":"archives. An archive for a"},{"startTime":3852.52,"endTime":3860.92,"body":"certain Beli-ili. Beli-ili was"},{"startTime":3852.52,"endTime":3860.92,"body":"marked by the fact that every"},{"startTime":3860.92,"endTime":3868.51,"body":"text was threaded to a line. So"},{"startTime":3860.92,"endTime":3868.51,"body":"each one of them have a hole at"},{"startTime":3868.51,"endTime":3875.86,"body":"the left-hand side. Beli-ili was"},{"startTime":3868.51,"endTime":3875.86,"body":"specialised in sacrificial"},{"startTime":3875.92,"endTime":3884.17,"body":"animals. There are many groups"},{"startTime":3875.92,"endTime":3884.17,"body":"of texts which you can identify"},{"startTime":3884.2,"endTime":3891.1,"body":"from many places, from Isin, to"},{"startTime":3884.2,"endTime":3891.1,"body":"Ur, to Larsa. They are illicit"},{"startTime":3891.1,"endTime":3897.04,"body":"texts. We bought them and put"},{"startTime":3891.1,"endTime":3897.04,"body":"them in the museum in order to"},{"startTime":3897.04,"endTime":3904.66,"body":"safeguard them rather than going"},{"startTime":3897.04,"endTime":3904.66,"body":"via military personnels and so"},{"startTime":3904.66,"endTime":3911.11,"body":"on into the European and"},{"startTime":3904.66,"endTime":3911.11,"body":"American markets. Unfortunately,"},{"startTime":3911.14,"endTime":3920.29,"body":"from about six years ago, though"},{"startTime":3911.14,"endTime":3920.29,"body":"they opened the department. And"},{"startTime":3920.29,"endTime":3926.59,"body":"I said to them, \"these are texts"},{"startTime":3920.29,"endTime":3926.59,"body":"you should keep for your"},{"startTime":3926.59,"endTime":3932.23,"body":"students\". In Baghdad, they"},{"startTime":3926.59,"endTime":3932.23,"body":"won't give them, and they won't"},{"startTime":3932.23,"endTime":3937.72,"body":"go to Baghdad to see what is in"},{"startTime":3932.23,"endTime":3937.72,"body":"the Iraqi Museum. And they've"},{"startTime":3937.72,"endTime":3945.46,"body":"got at least about at least 15"},{"startTime":3937.72,"endTime":3945.46,"body":"students in MA and 40 students"},{"startTime":3945.49,"endTime":3952.03,"body":"in first studies and BA. What"},{"startTime":3945.49,"endTime":3952.03,"body":"they are going to do these"},{"startTime":3952.03,"endTime":3959.02,"body":"numbers? That's the situation"},{"startTime":3952.03,"endTime":3959.02,"body":"all over Iraq. This is why the"},{"startTime":3959.02,"endTime":3961.57,"body":"education is going down."},{"startTime":3963.7,"endTime":3968.41,"body":"The universities are now"},{"startTime":3963.7,"endTime":3968.41,"body":"controlled by militias, to be"},{"startTime":3968.41,"endTime":3975.22,"body":"more clear, not by scholars who"},{"startTime":3968.41,"endTime":3975.22,"body":"want to rise the standard of"},{"startTime":3975.34,"endTime":3982.69,"body":"education. That's really painful"},{"startTime":3975.34,"endTime":3982.69,"body":"to me and those like me to see"},{"startTime":3982.69,"endTime":3989.35,"body":"that. Lecturers cannot eat"},{"startTime":3982.69,"endTime":3989.35,"body":"sometimes. I mean, limited, very"},{"startTime":3989.35,"endTime":3995.08,"body":"limited. Their wages actually"},{"startTime":3989.35,"endTime":3995.08,"body":"doesn't support a family."},{"startTime":3996.16,"endTime":3999.34,"body":"The last few decades have been"},{"startTime":3996.16,"endTime":3999.34,"body":"an incredibly difficult period"},{"startTime":3999.34,"endTime":4003.27,"body":"for Iraqis generally. Thinking"},{"startTime":3999.34,"endTime":4003.27,"body":"of Iraqi archaeology"},{"startTime":4003.27,"endTime":4007.74,"body":"specifically, it has faced all"},{"startTime":4003.27,"endTime":4007.74,"body":"sorts of huge challenges, and"},{"startTime":4007.74,"endTime":4011.07,"body":"still does. But there are"},{"startTime":4007.74,"endTime":4011.07,"body":"glimmers of hope. There are"},{"startTime":4011.07,"endTime":4014.55,"body":"plenty of talented and energetic"},{"startTime":4011.07,"endTime":4014.55,"body":"experts. There is some"},{"startTime":4014.55,"endTime":4019.14,"body":"international support, too. I"},{"startTime":4014.55,"endTime":4019.14,"body":"asked Farouk for his thoughts"},{"startTime":4019.14,"endTime":4021.93,"body":"about the future. Is he"},{"startTime":4019.14,"endTime":4021.93,"body":"optimistic?"},{"startTime":4022.62,"endTime":4028.83,"body":"The archeological study and"},{"startTime":4022.62,"endTime":4028.83,"body":"history in Iraq is governed by"},{"startTime":4028.89,"endTime":4036.75,"body":"us as a whole. We cannot drink"},{"startTime":4028.89,"endTime":4036.75,"body":"oil. Neither eat it. Neither"},{"startTime":4036.75,"endTime":4044.13,"body":"even work with it. But these"},{"startTime":4036.75,"endTime":4044.13,"body":"people in all over Iraq, from"},{"startTime":4044.19,"endTime":4051.09,"body":"India, to China, to Japan, to"},{"startTime":4044.19,"endTime":4051.09,"body":"Korea, who are benefiting from"},{"startTime":4051.09,"endTime":4058.23,"body":"the companies in Iraq, we should"},{"startTime":4051.09,"endTime":4058.23,"body":"as a scholars milk them. We"},{"startTime":4058.23,"endTime":4064.08,"body":"should get something out of the"},{"startTime":4058.23,"endTime":4064.08,"body":"benefits which they are having"},{"startTime":4064.74,"endTime":4070.62,"body":"from petroleum companies. We"},{"startTime":4064.74,"endTime":4070.62,"body":"should have that in order to"},{"startTime":4070.62,"endTime":4076.35,"body":"make them participate in the"},{"startTime":4070.62,"endTime":4076.35,"body":"rising of the standards of"},{"startTime":4076.35,"endTime":4079.38,"body":"studies, of education."},{"startTime":4080.4,"endTime":4087.96,"body":"In Iraq in the '70s there were"},{"startTime":4080.4,"endTime":4087.96,"body":"no illiterate people. The United"},{"startTime":4087.96,"endTime":4094.44,"body":"Nations said; it's not me. The"},{"startTime":4087.96,"endTime":4094.44,"body":"UNESCO and the United Nations"},{"startTime":4094.59,"endTime":4101.31,"body":"said that Iraq is empty from"},{"startTime":4094.59,"endTime":4101.31,"body":"illiterates. Now, there is a"},{"startTime":4101.31,"endTime":4109.47,"body":"high percentage of the people"},{"startTime":4101.31,"endTime":4109.47,"body":"who do not know how to read and"},{"startTime":4109.47,"endTime":4118.47,"body":"write. And now by the influence"},{"startTime":4109.47,"endTime":4118.47,"body":"of the capitalist world in Iraq,"},{"startTime":4118.77,"endTime":4124.38,"body":"they increase that amount of"},{"startTime":4118.77,"endTime":4124.38,"body":"illiteracy. They didn't build"},{"startTime":4124.41,"endTime":4130.62,"body":"schools. They give money to the"},{"startTime":4124.41,"endTime":4130.62,"body":"contractors who build on air"},{"startTime":4130.68,"endTime":4136.02,"body":"rather than real building of"},{"startTime":4130.68,"endTime":4136.02,"body":"schools. They give money to"},{"startTime":4136.02,"endTime":4141.3,"body":"these politicians who filled"},{"startTime":4136.02,"endTime":4141.3,"body":"their pockets rather than"},{"startTime":4141.33,"endTime":4148.11,"body":"spending a time ... little time"},{"startTime":4141.33,"endTime":4148.11,"body":"... in colleges and schools, in"},{"startTime":4148.14,"endTime":4150.24,"body":"educational centers."},{"startTime":4150.78,"endTime":4156.96,"body":"Or look forward for building"},{"startTime":4150.78,"endTime":4156.96,"body":"Iraq through agriculture,"},{"startTime":4157.23,"endTime":4163.44,"body":"through manufacturing. You know,"},{"startTime":4157.23,"endTime":4163.44,"body":"now there is about the same"},{"startTime":4163.44,"endTime":4171.39,"body":"amount of need of food, which we"},{"startTime":4163.44,"endTime":4171.39,"body":"used to produce. We used to"},{"startTime":4171.63,"endTime":4177.39,"body":"produce rice and export it to"},{"startTime":4171.63,"endTime":4177.39,"body":"England. We used to export"},{"startTime":4177.42,"endTime":4183.99,"body":"cotton, we used to export wool"},{"startTime":4177.42,"endTime":4183.99,"body":"to England. Now we are buying"},{"startTime":4184.14,"endTime":4193.32,"body":"all our needs, from Turkey, from"},{"startTime":4184.14,"endTime":4193.32,"body":"Iran and other places. So this"},{"startTime":4193.32,"endTime":4199.74,"body":"is where when all the sectors of"},{"startTime":4193.32,"endTime":4199.74,"body":"society will be developed. I"},{"startTime":4199.74,"endTime":4207.36,"body":"mean if Iraq is stable and the"},{"startTime":4199.74,"endTime":4207.36,"body":"militias go away, leave us in"},{"startTime":4207.36,"endTime":4214.8,"body":"peace, people of Iraq will"},{"startTime":4207.36,"endTime":4214.8,"body":"certainly have social justice,"},{"startTime":4215.52,"endTime":4220.35,"body":"evelop their archaeological ..."},{"startTime":4215.52,"endTime":4220.35,"body":"you know, the archaeology is not"},{"startTime":4220.38,"endTime":4226.2,"body":"new in Iraq by the way. Since"},{"startTime":4220.38,"endTime":4226.2,"body":"Rassam's time there were a"},{"startTime":4226.2,"endTime":4232.59,"body":"movement of archaeologists in"},{"startTime":4226.2,"endTime":4232.59,"body":"Iraq. since Layard, Porter,"},{"startTime":4232.8,"endTime":4239.01,"body":"Scheil, and others there were"},{"startTime":4232.8,"endTime":4239.01,"body":"Iraqi workers who worked in"},{"startTime":4239.01,"endTime":4244.14,"body":"archaeology. We could develop"},{"startTime":4239.01,"endTime":4244.14,"body":"these skills. We used to go to"},{"startTime":4244.14,"endTime":4250.5,"body":"dig on the Gulf, in Abu Dhabi,"},{"startTime":4244.14,"endTime":4250.5,"body":"in the Emirates as a whole. In"},{"startTime":4250.5,"endTime":4255.66,"body":"Saudi Arabia, we send them"},{"startTime":4250.5,"endTime":4255.66,"body":"teachers and lecturers to"},{"startTime":4255.66,"endTime":4256.71,"body":"educate them."},{"startTime":4278.91,"endTime":4284.49,"body":"We used to manufacture. You"},{"startTime":4278.91,"endTime":4284.49,"body":"know, even the dibis, we import"},{"startTime":4284.49,"endTime":4291.06,"body":"it from Iran. You know what's"},{"startTime":4284.49,"endTime":4291.06,"body":"dibis? Dishpu in Akkadian. It is"},{"startTime":4291.06,"endTime":4297.42,"body":"actually the date syrup. We are"},{"startTime":4291.06,"endTime":4297.42,"body":"now import it from Iran. Dates."},{"startTime":4297.93,"endTime":4305.61,"body":"We are now import from Iran. The"},{"startTime":4297.93,"endTime":4305.61,"body":"fruits, we are importing it from"},{"startTime":4305.64,"endTime":4313.17,"body":"Turkey. This is the way to which"},{"startTime":4305.64,"endTime":4313.17,"body":"I think the future must look"},{"startTime":4313.2,"endTime":4319.5,"body":"for. Firstly, freeze. On many"},{"startTime":4313.2,"endTime":4319.5,"body":"ways we can freeze these"},{"startTime":4319.5,"endTime":4325.59,"body":"militias, whatever they are. In"},{"startTime":4319.5,"endTime":4325.59,"body":"the 70s, Iraq was prosper[ous],"},{"startTime":4326.58,"endTime":4334.08,"body":"not now. But we can do it. If we"},{"startTime":4326.58,"endTime":4334.08,"body":"put hand on heart, thinking"},{"startTime":4334.14,"endTime":4341.22,"body":"about the country. If we can"},{"startTime":4334.14,"endTime":4341.22,"body":"rule these oil companies to give"},{"startTime":4341.31,"endTime":4350.07,"body":"a fraction of their benefits. A"},{"startTime":4341.31,"endTime":4350.07,"body":"fraction of that will do what we"},{"startTime":4350.1,"endTime":4357.6,"body":"are looking for. So we look"},{"startTime":4350.1,"endTime":4357.6,"body":"forward for social justice. And"},{"startTime":4357.66,"endTime":4364.65,"body":"we look forward for freedom"},{"startTime":4357.66,"endTime":4364.65,"body":"also. We look forward to Europe,"},{"startTime":4364.98,"endTime":4373.38,"body":"America, Japan, China, India,"},{"startTime":4364.98,"endTime":4373.38,"body":"etc, Malaysia to try put their"},{"startTime":4373.44,"endTime":4379.65,"body":"impressions on the country,"},{"startTime":4373.44,"endTime":4379.65,"body":"rather than just take from the"},{"startTime":4379.65,"endTime":4380.25,"body":"country."},{"startTime":4381.63,"endTime":4389.73,"body":"And by training, really"},{"startTime":4381.63,"endTime":4389.73,"body":"training. Britain, America spent"},{"startTime":4389.88,"endTime":4396.33,"body":"millions on these projects, but"},{"startTime":4389.88,"endTime":4396.33,"body":"we have to put our impressions"},{"startTime":4396.6,"endTime":4404.22,"body":"on the people rather than just"},{"startTime":4396.6,"endTime":4404.22,"body":"benefiting those trainees. This"},{"startTime":4404.22,"endTime":4409.05,"body":"is what we need in order to"},{"startTime":4404.22,"endTime":4409.05,"body":"develop Iraq, in order to"},{"startTime":4409.05,"endTime":4417.72,"body":"rebuild the state. The state is"},{"startTime":4409.05,"endTime":4417.72,"body":"not rebuilt. The way forward by"},{"startTime":4417.84,"endTime":4424.74,"body":"building like we do in"},{"startTime":4417.84,"endTime":4424.74,"body":"archaeology, a brick by brick to"},{"startTime":4424.77,"endTime":4431.79,"body":"reconstruct a building. So we"},{"startTime":4424.77,"endTime":4431.79,"body":"must have examples in front of"},{"startTime":4431.82,"endTime":4438.51,"body":"us to work. In Mosul, the UNESCO"},{"startTime":4431.82,"endTime":4438.51,"body":"and the Sorbonne, they said that"},{"startTime":4438.51,"endTime":4445.53,"body":"they are going to work the"},{"startTime":4438.51,"endTime":4445.53,"body":"al-Nuri mosque, the minaret, but"},{"startTime":4445.56,"endTime":4450.81,"body":"they invited the Egyptians to do"},{"startTime":4445.56,"endTime":4450.81,"body":"the reconstruction. You know,"},{"startTime":4450.81,"endTime":4457.08,"body":"there are Iraqis who drew that"},{"startTime":4450.81,"endTime":4457.08,"body":"minaret, brick by brick, from"},{"startTime":4457.08,"endTime":4462.69,"body":"the bottom to the top. They are"},{"startTime":4457.08,"endTime":4462.69,"body":"scholars who did that. This is"},{"startTime":4462.69,"endTime":4468.54,"body":"what is going on and this is how"},{"startTime":4462.69,"endTime":4468.54,"body":"you can look at the future. I"},{"startTime":4468.54,"endTime":4475.29,"body":"mean, there are hopes. When the"},{"startTime":4468.54,"endTime":4475.29,"body":"new prime minister came, we hope"},{"startTime":4475.38,"endTime":4482.46,"body":"that he will eliminate these"},{"startTime":4475.38,"endTime":4482.46,"body":"militias. We want him to make"},{"startTime":4482.46,"endTime":4489.09,"body":"just not to spend billions on"},{"startTime":4482.46,"endTime":4489.09,"body":"politicians and religious"},{"startTime":4489.09,"endTime":4495.45,"body":"personnels and so on, but spend"},{"startTime":4489.09,"endTime":4495.45,"body":"it on the people. Spend it on"},{"startTime":4495.45,"endTime":4501.84,"body":"the country, not abroad. There"},{"startTime":4495.45,"endTime":4501.84,"body":"are many examples that we can"},{"startTime":4501.84,"endTime":4508.74,"body":"put for the people in order to"},{"startTime":4501.84,"endTime":4508.74,"body":"really look forward, walking"},{"startTime":4508.86,"endTime":4515.49,"body":"towards a light at the end of"},{"startTime":4508.86,"endTime":4515.49,"body":"the tunnel. In the future. This"},{"startTime":4515.49,"endTime":4517.11,"body":"is looking for the"},{"startTime":4515.49,"endTime":4517.11,"body":"future.{LAUGHS}"},{"startTime":4518.61,"endTime":4522.03,"body":"Thank you very much Farouk. I"},{"startTime":4518.61,"endTime":4522.03,"body":"really appreciate your time."},{"startTime":4522.45,"endTime":4525.18,"body":"Thank you, Jon. You're welcome"},{"startTime":4522.45,"endTime":4525.18,"body":"any time."},{"startTime":4526.44,"endTime":4530.4,"body":"Id also like to thank our"},{"startTime":4526.44,"endTime":4530.4,"body":"patrons: Tyler Russell, Enrique"},{"startTime":4530.4,"endTime":4535.74,"body":"Jimenez, Jana Matuszak, Nancy"},{"startTime":4530.4,"endTime":4535.74,"body":"Highcock, Jay C, Rune"},{"startTime":4535.74,"endTime":4541.65,"body":"Rattenborg, Woodthrush, Elisa"},{"startTime":4535.74,"endTime":4541.65,"body":"Rossberger, Mark Weeden, Jordi"},{"startTime":4541.65,"endTime":4547.5,"body":"Mon Companys, Thomas Bolin, Joan"},{"startTime":4541.65,"endTime":4547.5,"body":"Porter MacIver, John MacGinnis,"},{"startTime":4547.89,"endTime":4552.87,"body":"Andrew George, Yelena Rakic,"},{"startTime":4547.89,"endTime":4552.87,"body":"Michael Katsevman, Mend"},{"startTime":4552.9,"endTime":4558.81,"body":"Mariwany, Kathryn Topper, Zach"},{"startTime":4552.9,"endTime":4558.81,"body":"Rubin, Sabina Franke, Sophus"},{"startTime":4558.81,"endTime":4565.17,"body":"Helle, Shai Gordin, Aaron Macks,"},{"startTime":4558.81,"endTime":4565.17,"body":"Jonathan Stkl, Maarja Seire,"},{"startTime":4565.56,"endTime":4570.63,"body":"Jaafar Jotheri, Morgan Hite,"},{"startTime":4565.56,"endTime":4570.63,"body":"Chikako Watanabe, Mark"},{"startTime":4570.63,"endTime":4575.4,"body":"McElwaine, Heather Baker,"},{"startTime":4570.63,"endTime":4575.4,"body":"Sukanya Ramanujan, Laura"},{"startTime":4575.4,"endTime":4581.16,"body":"Battini, Jonathan Blanchard"},{"startTime":4575.4,"endTime":4581.16,"body":"Smith, Vanessa Richards, Kliment"},{"startTime":4581.19,"endTime":4586.98,"body":"Ohr, TT, Christina"},{"startTime":4581.19,"endTime":4586.98,"body":"Tsouparopoulou, Andrew Senior,"},{"startTime":4587.55,"endTime":4589.56,"body":"Melanie Gross, Claire Weir, Marc"},{"startTime":4587.55,"endTime":4589.56,"body":"Veldman, Bruno Biermann, as well"},{"startTime":4589.56,"endTime":4591.66,"body":"as those who prefer to remain"},{"startTime":4589.56,"endTime":4591.66,"body":"anonymous.."},{"startTime":4592.47,"endTime":4595.08,"body":"I really appreciate your"},{"startTime":4592.47,"endTime":4595.08,"body":"support. It makes a big"},{"startTime":4595.08,"endTime":4599.61,"body":"difference. Every penny received"},{"startTime":4595.08,"endTime":4599.61,"body":"has contributed towards"},{"startTime":4599.61,"endTime":4603.03,"body":"translations. Thanks of course"},{"startTime":4599.61,"endTime":4603.03,"body":"to the lovely people who have"},{"startTime":4603.03,"endTime":4606.45,"body":"worked on the translations on a"},{"startTime":4603.03,"endTime":4606.45,"body":"voluntary basis or for well"},{"startTime":4606.45,"endTime":4610.71,"body":"below the market rate. For"},{"startTime":4606.45,"endTime":4610.71,"body":"Arabic, thanks in particular to"},{"startTime":4610.71,"endTime":4615.42,"body":"Zainab Mizyidawi, as well as"},{"startTime":4610.71,"endTime":4615.42,"body":"Lina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel."},{"startTime":4616.26,"endTime":4622.77,"body":"For Turkish, thank you to Pinar"},{"startTime":4616.26,"endTime":4622.77,"body":"Durgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is"},{"startTime":4622.77,"endTime":4626.31,"body":"still young, but I want to reach"},{"startTime":4622.77,"endTime":4626.31,"body":"a sustainable level, where"},{"startTime":4626.31,"endTime":4629.49,"body":"translators are given proper"},{"startTime":4626.31,"endTime":4629.49,"body":"compensation for their hard"},{"startTime":4629.49,"endTime":4629.94,"body":"work."},{"startTime":4632.21,"endTime":4635.48,"body":"And thank you for listening to"},{"startTime":4632.21,"endTime":4635.48,"body":"Thin End of the Wedge. If you"},{"startTime":4635.48,"endTime":4638.75,"body":"enjoy what we do, and you would"},{"startTime":4635.48,"endTime":4638.75,"body":"like to help make these podcasts"},{"startTime":4638.75,"endTime":4641.84,"body":"available in Middle Eastern"},{"startTime":4638.75,"endTime":4641.84,"body":"languages, please consider"},{"startTime":4641.84,"endTime":4645.68,"body":"joining our Patreon family. You"},{"startTime":4641.84,"endTime":4645.68,"body":"can find us at"},{"startTime":4645.71,"endTime":4652.04,"body":"patreon.com/wedgepod. You can"},{"startTime":4645.71,"endTime":4652.04,"body":"also support us in other ways:"},{"startTime":4652.7,"endTime":4656.54,"body":"simply subscribe to the podcast;"},{"startTime":4652.7,"endTime":4656.54,"body":"leave us a five star review on"},{"startTime":4656.57,"endTime":4659.84,"body":"Apple Music or your favourite"},{"startTime":4656.57,"endTime":4659.84,"body":"podcatcher; recommend us to your"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4659.84,"endTime":4666.02,"body":"@wedge_pod. If you want the"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4666.02,"endTime":4669.59,"body":"latest podcast news, you can"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4666.02,"endTime":4669.59,"body":"sign up for our newsletter. You"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4669.59,"endTime":4673.37,"body":"can find all the links in the"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4669.59,"endTime":4673.37,"body":"show notes and on our website at"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4676.04,"endTime":4682.31,"body":"wedgepod.org. Thanks, and I hope"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":4676.04,"endTime":4682.31,"body":"youll join us next time."}]}