{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":13.95,"endTime":16.62,"body":"Hello, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":13.95,"endTime":16.62,"body":"to the Thin End of the Wedge,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":16.83,"endTime":19.74,"body":"the podcast where experts from"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":16.83,"endTime":19.74,"body":"around the world share new and"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":19.74,"endTime":23.85,"body":"interesting stories about life"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":19.74,"endTime":23.85,"body":"in the ancient Middle East. My"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":23.85,"endTime":27.66,"body":"name is Jon. Each episode I talk"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":23.85,"endTime":27.66,"body":"to friends and colleagues and"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":27.66,"endTime":31.05,"body":"get them to explain their work"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":27.66,"endTime":31.05,"body":"in a way we can all understand."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":32.08,"endTime":36.13,"body":"Early excavations often targeted"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":32.08,"endTime":36.13,"body":"the ruined palaces of ancient"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":36.13,"endTime":40.21,"body":"Iraq. Among the carved reliefs"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":36.13,"endTime":40.21,"body":"decorating the walls of"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":40.24,"endTime":43.69,"body":"Assyria's palaces were"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":40.24,"endTime":43.69,"body":"depictions of the king and his"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":43.69,"endTime":49.0,"body":"courtiers; one also depicts a"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":43.69,"endTime":49.0,"body":"queen. More than 100 years"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":49.0,"endTime":53.08,"body":"later, excavations revealed"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":49.0,"endTime":53.08,"body":"astonishing new evidence: the"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":53.08,"endTime":56.89,"body":"bodies of some of the queens"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":53.08,"endTime":56.89,"body":"themselves, with their jewels"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":57.01,"endTime":60.19,"body":"and fragments of the clothes"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":57.01,"endTime":60.19,"body":"suggested by the reliefs."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":61.96,"endTime":65.32,"body":"Despite their near absence from"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":61.96,"endTime":65.32,"body":"large-scale palace art, the"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":65.32,"endTime":68.71,"body":"queens would have been important"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":65.32,"endTime":68.71,"body":"figures at court. They would"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":68.71,"endTime":72.76,"body":"have made an unforgettable"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":68.71,"endTime":72.76,"body":"impression around the palace. As"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":72.76,"endTime":76.0,"body":"with so much of court"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":72.76,"endTime":76.0,"body":"paraphernalia, the royal figure"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":76.03,"endTime":80.83,"body":"conveyed all sorts of messages."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":76.03,"endTime":80.83,"body":"What would the queens wear, and"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":80.83,"endTime":85.36,"body":"what did it mean? Dress was"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":80.83,"endTime":85.36,"body":"primarily visual, but other"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":85.36,"endTime":86.86,"body":"senses were invoked as well."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":88.24,"endTime":106.33,"body":"So get yourself a cup of tea,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":88.24,"endTime":106.33,"body":"make yourself comfortable, and"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":106.33,"endTime":107.98,"body":"let's meet today's guest."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":116.17,"endTime":119.08,"body":"Hello, and welcome to Thin End"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":116.17,"endTime":119.08,"body":"of the Wedge. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":119.08,"endTime":119.71,"body":"joining us."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":120.1,"endTime":121.66,"body":"Thank you. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":120.1,"endTime":121.66,"body":"for having me."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":122.11,"endTime":125.11,"body":"Can you tell us"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":122.11,"endTime":125.11,"body":"please: who are you, and what do"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":125.11,"endTime":125.71,"body":"you do?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":126.07,"endTime":129.31,"body":"I'm Amy Gansell."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":126.07,"endTime":129.31,"body":"I'm an art history professor at"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":129.31,"endTime":132.61,"body":"St. John's University in New"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":129.31,"endTime":132.61,"body":"York City. I'm also the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":132.61,"endTime":135.49,"body":"coordinator for our Women's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":132.61,"endTime":135.49,"body":"Gender and Sexuality Studies"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":135.49,"endTime":141.1,"body":"program here. And I specialise"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":135.49,"endTime":141.1,"body":"in studying the ancient Assyrian"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":141.1,"endTime":144.61,"body":"queens. So, women and their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":141.1,"endTime":144.61,"body":"representations in art and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":144.61,"endTime":147.31,"body":"archaeology in the ancient Near"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":144.61,"endTime":147.31,"body":"East, broadly."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":147.79,"endTime":150.61,"body":"Okay, thank you. And"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":147.79,"endTime":150.61,"body":"today we are going to talk about"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":150.64,"endTime":155.23,"body":"the Assyrian queens and dress."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":150.64,"endTime":155.23,"body":"First of all, how do we actually"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":155.23,"endTime":160.42,"body":"know about dress at all? Women's"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":155.23,"endTime":160.42,"body":"dress or Assyrian queenly dress?"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":160.72,"endTime":163.72,"body":"Textiles tend not to survive, do"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":160.72,"endTime":163.72,"body":"they? What sources do we have"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":163.75,"endTime":164.5,"body":"for this topic?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":165.11,"endTime":168.17,"body":"Well, we actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":165.11,"endTime":168.17,"body":"have a good deal of evidence"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":168.2,"endTime":172.34,"body":"about ancient textiles and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":168.2,"endTime":172.34,"body":"clothing if we put together a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":172.34,"endTime":176.33,"body":"lot of different resources."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":172.34,"endTime":176.33,"body":"There is some archaeological"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":176.33,"endTime":180.32,"body":"evidence, particularly from"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":176.33,"endTime":180.32,"body":"Nimrud. From inside the queens'"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":180.32,"endTime":183.44,"body":"coffins, there have been some"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":180.32,"endTime":183.44,"body":"fragments, little bits of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":183.44,"endTime":186.5,"body":"textiles, preserved that have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":183.44,"endTime":186.5,"body":"been analysed and tested to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":186.5,"endTime":189.98,"body":"determine that they were"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":186.5,"endTime":189.98,"body":"primarily linen textiles that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":189.98,"endTime":193.16,"body":"were used for presumably for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":189.98,"endTime":193.16,"body":"their clothing, but also maybe"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":193.16,"endTime":197.84,"body":"as shrouds to wrap their dressed"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":193.16,"endTime":197.84,"body":"bodies in. In addition to that,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":197.84,"endTime":201.32,"body":"there is textual evidence that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":197.84,"endTime":201.32,"body":"refers to types of fabric,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":201.32,"endTime":205.49,"body":"treatments of fabrics such as"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":201.32,"endTime":205.49,"body":"dyes and bleaching, as well as"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":205.49,"endTime":206.96,"body":"different types of garments."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":207.56,"endTime":211.91,"body":"And then of course, we have the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":207.56,"endTime":211.91,"body":"art historical record. Now, it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":211.91,"endTime":214.7,"body":"difficult to match up some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":211.91,"endTime":214.7,"body":"the texts, the ancient"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":214.73,"endTime":217.58,"body":"terminology that we have, to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":214.73,"endTime":217.58,"body":"what we find in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":217.58,"endTime":220.82,"body":"archaeological record or the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":217.58,"endTime":220.82,"body":"visual record, because"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":220.82,"endTime":224.93,"body":"obviously, nothing comes with a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":220.82,"endTime":224.93,"body":"label. But we do have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":224.93,"endTime":230.03,"body":"examples, especially in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":224.93,"endTime":230.03,"body":"visual arts. We know from"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":230.03,"endTime":234.32,"body":"looking at images in art that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":230.03,"endTime":234.32,"body":"royal garments were draped and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":234.32,"endTime":238.55,"body":"belted and that's something I'll"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":234.32,"endTime":238.55,"body":"get back to in a moment. We also"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":238.55,"endTime":242.27,"body":"know that royal clothing was"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":238.55,"endTime":242.27,"body":"highly decorated, especially"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":242.3,"endTime":247.73,"body":"with imagery that's evoking"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":242.3,"endTime":247.73,"body":"flowers, maybe trees. In some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":247.73,"endTime":251.99,"body":"the images of kings, we see more"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":247.73,"endTime":251.99,"body":"complex narrative scenes that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":251.99,"endTime":255.32,"body":"relate to those that are known"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":251.99,"endTime":255.32,"body":"to us from large-scale Assyrian"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":255.32,"endTime":258.26,"body":"scenes of hunt, war, and"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":255.32,"endTime":258.26,"body":"ritual."},{"speaker":"art","startTime":258.83,"endTime":262.7,"body":"So going back to the aspect of"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":258.83,"endTime":262.7,"body":"the garments being draped and"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":262.7,"endTime":266.15,"body":"belted, how do we know about"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":262.7,"endTime":266.15,"body":"royal clothing? Well, if we put"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":266.18,"endTime":271.34,"body":"the ancient evidence together"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":266.18,"endTime":271.34,"body":"and we apply it, we can attempt"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":271.34,"endTime":275.66,"body":"to reconstruct based on what is"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":271.34,"endTime":275.66,"body":"preserved what an actual garment"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":275.66,"endTime":279.71,"body":"might have looked like. And I in"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":275.66,"endTime":279.71,"body":"doing so worked with a costume"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":279.71,"endTime":282.8,"body":"designer and scholar of the"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":279.71,"endTime":282.8,"body":"ancient Near East, Elizabeth"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":282.8,"endTime":288.71,"body":"Clancy. And we used fabric and"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":282.8,"endTime":288.71,"body":"draped according to matching up"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":288.71,"endTime":294.2,"body":"what we saw in art, and she was"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":288.71,"endTime":294.2,"body":"able to discover the manner in"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":294.2,"endTime":299.03,"body":"which a queen's garment would"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":294.2,"endTime":299.03,"body":"have been draped in 360 degrees."},{"speaker":"art","startTime":299.54,"endTime":302.3,"body":"The problem with art is it"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":299.54,"endTime":302.3,"body":"usually just shows a profile"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":302.3,"endTime":305.75,"body":"view. So we're kind of"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":302.3,"endTime":305.75,"body":"struggling to imagine what the"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":305.78,"endTime":310.22,"body":"entire living dressed body would"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":305.78,"endTime":310.22,"body":"have looked like. But these"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":310.25,"endTime":313.22,"body":"contemporary reconstruction"},{"speaker":"art","startTime":310.25,"endTime":313.22,"body":"efforts are taking us there too."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":313.7,"endTime":315.59,"body":"Brilliant, thank"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":313.7,"endTime":315.59,"body":"you. As you were saying that, I"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":315.59,"endTime":317.87,"body":"realised there's an obvious"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":315.59,"endTime":317.87,"body":"question I missed off, which is"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":317.87,"endTime":320.45,"body":"about experimental"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":317.87,"endTime":320.45,"body":"archaeological approach."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":320.51,"endTime":320.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":320.99,"endTime":324.17,"body":"What did you learn"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":320.99,"endTime":324.17,"body":"from doing it in the physical"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":324.17,"endTime":326.66,"body":"world, recreating these things?"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":324.17,"endTime":326.66,"body":"What did that teach you that you"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":326.66,"endTime":328.49,"body":"couldn't learn from iconography,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":326.66,"endTime":328.49,"body":"say?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":328.82,"endTime":331.04,"body":"Certainly, it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":328.82,"endTime":331.04,"body":"taught us what the garment look"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":331.04,"endTime":335.84,"body":"like in 360 degrees. It gives"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":331.04,"endTime":335.84,"body":"you a sense. I even got to be a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":335.84,"endTime":339.56,"body":"model, to attempt to wear a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":335.84,"endTime":339.56,"body":"garment that she draped on me."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":339.59,"endTime":343.61,"body":"It gives you a sense of how it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":339.59,"endTime":343.61,"body":"would feel to be in a draped"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":343.61,"endTime":347.39,"body":"garment. It's both and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":343.61,"endTime":347.39,"body":"restrictive compared to what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":347.39,"endTime":350.48,"body":"we're used to in modern"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":347.39,"endTime":350.48,"body":"clothing, but it's also very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":350.48,"endTime":355.64,"body":"flexible and flowing with the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":350.48,"endTime":355.64,"body":"fabric. We also observed that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":355.67,"endTime":358.88,"body":"the way the garment falls when"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":355.67,"endTime":358.88,"body":"you just comfortably sit down in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":358.88,"endTime":362.3,"body":"a chair is not what it looks"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":358.88,"endTime":362.3,"body":"like in art. But if you"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":362.3,"endTime":367.82,"body":"carefully bunch up the hem and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":362.3,"endTime":367.82,"body":"tuck it underneath you, and sit"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":367.82,"endTime":372.32,"body":"there perfectly still, you can"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":367.82,"endTime":372.32,"body":"recreate the same garment lines,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":372.32,"endTime":377.45,"body":"and hemlines, and drapery lines"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":372.32,"endTime":377.45,"body":"that we see in art. So prior to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":377.45,"endTime":381.8,"body":"this experiment, we kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":377.45,"endTime":381.8,"body":"assumed that what we saw in art"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":381.8,"endTime":385.31,"body":"was an idealised image. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":381.8,"endTime":385.31,"body":"the garment could not possibly"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":385.31,"endTime":389.72,"body":"fall in that manner. But we do"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":385.31,"endTime":389.72,"body":"know now that just like in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":389.75,"endTime":393.5,"body":"modern fashion photography, if"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":389.75,"endTime":393.5,"body":"you pose something very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":393.5,"endTime":396.83,"body":"carefully, you can achieve that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":393.5,"endTime":396.83,"body":"ideal appearance."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":397.04,"endTime":399.92,"body":"I love that idea"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":397.04,"endTime":399.92,"body":"of idealism versus the real"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":399.98,"endTime":403.13,"body":"element, and especially the"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":399.98,"endTime":403.13,"body":"experience. I'm sure I've told"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":403.13,"endTime":406.1,"body":"you that I really think that"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":403.13,"endTime":406.1,"body":"everyone should try wearing what"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":406.1,"endTime":408.8,"body":"people are wearing in"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":406.1,"endTime":408.8,"body":"representations of the ancient"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":408.8,"endTime":412.1,"body":"world. I wanted to very quickly"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":408.8,"endTime":412.1,"body":"ask you: when you were going"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":412.1,"endTime":415.01,"body":"through the different sources"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":412.1,"endTime":415.01,"body":"that you have available, I think"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":415.01,"endTime":419.15,"body":"most assyriologists are fairly"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":415.01,"endTime":419.15,"body":"familiar with the texts, and"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":419.51,"endTime":422.78,"body":"those doing new Assyrian history"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":419.51,"endTime":422.78,"body":"are quite familiar with the huge"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":422.81,"endTime":426.56,"body":"images in the palaces. But could"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":422.81,"endTime":426.56,"body":"you give us a quick introduction"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":426.56,"endTime":430.94,"body":"to the tombs of the queens?"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":426.56,"endTime":430.94,"body":"That's a really unique set of"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":430.94,"endTime":431.75,"body":"sources."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":432.17,"endTime":435.26,"body":"Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":432.17,"endTime":435.26,"body":"absolutely. And the tombs are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":435.26,"endTime":440.18,"body":"the most recently discovered"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":435.26,"endTime":440.18,"body":"piece of the puzzle here. They"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":440.18,"endTime":444.86,"body":"were discovered in the late"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":440.18,"endTime":444.86,"body":"1980s, 1988/1989, into the early"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":444.89,"endTime":449.09,"body":"90s, in Iraq at the city of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":444.89,"endTime":449.09,"body":"Nimrud, which is near Mosul"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":449.09,"endTime":453.98,"body":"today. They were originally"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":449.09,"endTime":453.98,"body":"published in the late 90s, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":453.98,"endTime":458.21,"body":"in a catalogue in 2000. But they"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":453.98,"endTime":458.21,"body":"didn't gain as much"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":458.21,"endTime":461.57,"body":"international attention as far"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":458.21,"endTime":461.57,"body":"as the breadth of their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":461.57,"endTime":465.56,"body":"archaeological material. Because"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":461.57,"endTime":465.56,"body":"the catalogue was published in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":465.56,"endTime":469.16,"body":"Arabic. There were very, very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":465.56,"endTime":469.16,"body":"few copies of that catalogue"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":469.19,"endTime":473.54,"body":"available. And the other"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":469.19,"endTime":473.54,"body":"publications that came out,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":473.69,"endTime":477.11,"body":"there was even in some popular"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":473.69,"endTime":477.11,"body":"magazines, news articles that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":477.11,"endTime":480.74,"body":"came out, but they would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":477.11,"endTime":480.74,"body":"highlight one or two, or maybe a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":480.74,"endTime":486.2,"body":"dozen treasure artifacts. They"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":480.74,"endTime":486.2,"body":"didn't really give us a sense of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":486.35,"endTime":490.82,"body":"what the artifacts of dress from"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":486.35,"endTime":490.82,"body":"head to toe would have entailed,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":490.82,"endTime":495.11,"body":"let alone the consistency with"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":490.82,"endTime":495.11,"body":"which we were finding these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":495.14,"endTime":499.55,"body":"elements of dress across the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":495.14,"endTime":499.55,"body":"different burials of these royal"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":499.55,"endTime":504.65,"body":"women. I started working on them"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":499.55,"endTime":504.65,"body":"in the early 2000s, when not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":504.65,"endTime":508.28,"body":"much was published. And they're"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":504.65,"endTime":508.28,"body":"gaining more and more attention"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":508.28,"endTime":512.81,"body":"and being more integrated into"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":508.28,"endTime":512.81,"body":"our research, not just on dress,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":512.81,"endTime":514.91,"body":"but on royal culture overall."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":515.33,"endTime":517.97,"body":"I have a quick"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":515.33,"endTime":517.97,"body":"question as well about do you"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":518.0,"endTime":522.47,"body":"have a sense of any difference"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":518.0,"endTime":522.47,"body":"between what these women were"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":522.47,"endTime":528.74,"body":"wearing in the burials to what"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":522.47,"endTime":528.74,"body":"they represented in the images?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":529.55,"endTime":534.02,"body":"Well, we're dealing"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":529.55,"endTime":534.02,"body":"with a very fragmentary record,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":534.02,"endTime":539.75,"body":"especially with the images. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":534.02,"endTime":539.75,"body":"the large scale detailed images"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":539.75,"endTime":544.58,"body":"that we have of queenly dress"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":539.75,"endTime":544.58,"body":"date to the seventh century. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":544.61,"endTime":548.66,"body":"the material that we have from"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":544.61,"endTime":548.66,"body":"the tomb dates earlier to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":548.66,"endTime":552.89,"body":"probably the ninth and eighth"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":548.66,"endTime":552.89,"body":"century. So it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":552.89,"endTime":556.13,"body":"correlate. You know, what we see"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":552.89,"endTime":556.13,"body":"is not what we get in these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":556.13,"endTime":559.67,"body":"tombs. But if you look back at"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":556.13,"endTime":559.67,"body":"what people were buried in, in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":559.67,"endTime":563.99,"body":"the 1800s, and what we're"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":559.67,"endTime":563.99,"body":"depicted in today, it's not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":563.99,"endTime":568.34,"body":"gonna match up either. So we"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":563.99,"endTime":568.34,"body":"can't just assume that their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":568.34,"endTime":572.84,"body":"images and their burial dress"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":568.34,"endTime":572.84,"body":"were different for some cultural"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":572.84,"endTime":578.72,"body":"reason at that moment. But we"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":572.84,"endTime":578.72,"body":"also can tell there's lots that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":578.72,"endTime":581.69,"body":"was found in the tomb, lots of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":578.72,"endTime":581.69,"body":"artifacts that are not depicted"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":581.69,"endTime":585.29,"body":"in art. I can get into that in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":581.69,"endTime":585.29,"body":"more detail and tell you more"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":585.29,"endTime":589.52,"body":"about what the tombs reveal to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":585.29,"endTime":589.52,"body":"us that is not preserved in any"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":589.52,"endTime":590.6,"body":"other record if you want."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":590.96,"endTime":593.3,"body":"Yes, please. I think"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":590.96,"endTime":593.3,"body":"that might be a good time to do"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":593.3,"endTime":596.99,"body":"it. There is this other question"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":593.3,"endTime":596.99,"body":"on a very basic level: what"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":596.99,"endTime":598.91,"body":"would a queen actually wear?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":599.21,"endTime":603.2,"body":"Sure, let do an"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":599.21,"endTime":603.2,"body":"overview of what a queen would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":603.2,"endTime":606.62,"body":"actually wear. And I do believe"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":603.2,"endTime":606.62,"body":"that these queens were wearing"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":606.65,"endTime":610.79,"body":"these ensembles, these royal"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":606.65,"endTime":610.79,"body":"ensembles, in life as well as in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":610.79,"endTime":614.93,"body":"death. That it wasn't just a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":610.79,"endTime":614.93,"body":"special costume for the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":614.93,"endTime":618.92,"body":"afterlife, or for a funeral or"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":614.93,"endTime":618.92,"body":"burial. That what we find in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":618.92,"endTime":623.57,"body":"tombs is indicative of what they"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":618.92,"endTime":623.57,"body":"sat on the throne in, in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":623.57,"endTime":627.65,"body":"palace in life. So, starting"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":623.57,"endTime":627.65,"body":"from that top, you would have a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":627.65,"endTime":633.08,"body":"diadem and also crown, so"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":627.65,"endTime":633.08,"body":"headgear. It seems that some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":633.08,"endTime":636.17,"body":"the queens were buried with"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":633.08,"endTime":636.17,"body":"multiple options for what to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":636.17,"endTime":639.32,"body":"wear on their head. So it seems"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":636.17,"endTime":639.32,"body":"that perhaps for different"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":639.35,"endTime":642.41,"body":"occasions or different contexts,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":639.35,"endTime":642.41,"body":"different headgear was worn."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":642.74,"endTime":646.34,"body":"There's a type of diadem that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":642.74,"endTime":646.34,"body":"consistently found across"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":646.34,"endTime":650.69,"body":"multiple of these tombs. So that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":646.34,"endTime":650.69,"body":"seems to be kind of the standard"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":650.72,"endTime":655.64,"body":"base diadem for a top-ranked"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":650.72,"endTime":655.64,"body":"royal woman, i.e. the queen. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":655.64,"endTime":659.21,"body":"then these elaborate crowns,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":655.64,"endTime":659.21,"body":"each of which is unique that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":659.21,"endTime":662.15,"body":"have been found in the tombs"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":659.21,"endTime":662.15,"body":"might have differentiated them"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":662.15,"endTime":666.56,"body":"on an individual level. But just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":662.15,"endTime":666.56,"body":"to have one of those crowns"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":666.59,"endTime":671.57,"body":"would have been a queenly crown,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":666.59,"endTime":671.57,"body":"in addition to the diadem. But"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":671.6,"endTime":674.63,"body":"it seems to be worn separately."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":671.6,"endTime":674.63,"body":"You couldn't put a crown over"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":674.63,"endTime":678.53,"body":"the diadem necessarily. You'd"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":674.63,"endTime":678.53,"body":"cover up your diadem. So moving"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":678.53,"endTime":683.63,"body":"on down, the crown sits on the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":678.53,"endTime":683.63,"body":"hair. So some of the diameters"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":683.63,"endTime":687.44,"body":"of the crowns and diadems are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":683.63,"endTime":687.44,"body":"quite wide. They're wider than"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":687.71,"endTime":691.49,"body":"most women's heads."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":687.71,"endTime":691.49,"body":"Significantly wider. So it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":691.49,"endTime":696.29,"body":"suggests that the queens had"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":691.49,"endTime":696.29,"body":"very poofy hair. They might have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":696.29,"endTime":699.56,"body":"been styling it. They might"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":696.29,"endTime":699.56,"body":"though, have padded their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":699.56,"endTime":704.42,"body":"hairstyles out with hair pieces"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":699.56,"endTime":704.42,"body":"or were wearing wigs. So the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":704.42,"endTime":708.2,"body":"hair is something that I really"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":704.42,"endTime":708.2,"body":"consider as part of the dress of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":708.23,"endTime":709.61,"body":"what a queen would wear."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":710.33,"endTime":713.9,"body":"And then of course, we have the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":710.33,"endTime":713.9,"body":"jewelry ensemble. Starting on"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":713.9,"endTime":717.2,"body":"the top, you would have a pair"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":713.9,"endTime":717.2,"body":"of earrings, so an earring in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":717.2,"endTime":722.18,"body":"each ear. You would have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":717.2,"endTime":722.18,"body":"necklace or necklaces. There are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":722.18,"endTime":725.18,"body":"also a lot of beads found in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":722.18,"endTime":725.18,"body":"tomb. So they may have had long"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":725.18,"endTime":728.72,"body":"strings of beads as it's been"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":725.18,"endTime":728.72,"body":"reconstructed by archaeologists."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":728.99,"endTime":732.08,"body":"But it's possible that some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":728.99,"endTime":732.08,"body":"the beads were beading on"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":732.08,"endTime":735.95,"body":"garments or wraps that the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":732.08,"endTime":735.95,"body":"queens were wearing. Then, of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":735.95,"endTime":739.91,"body":"course they had that garment,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":735.95,"endTime":739.91,"body":"the draped garment. The garment"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":739.91,"endTime":743.72,"body":"itself might have been"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":739.91,"endTime":743.72,"body":"ornamented or it was definitely"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":743.72,"endTime":746.84,"body":"ornamented, but it might have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":743.72,"endTime":746.84,"body":"been ornamented with embroidery"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":746.87,"endTime":751.28,"body":"and or with little metal"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":746.87,"endTime":751.28,"body":"medallions. It's like the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":751.31,"endTime":756.77,"body":"sequins of ancient time. We have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":751.31,"endTime":756.77,"body":"gold medallions, very thin, but"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":756.77,"endTime":758.93,"body":"they have attachments on the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":756.77,"endTime":758.93,"body":"back like a loop that you could"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":758.93,"endTime":761.69,"body":"sew onto a garment. Or some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":758.93,"endTime":761.69,"body":"them have holes, like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":761.75,"endTime":765.68,"body":"buttonholes that you could sew"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":761.75,"endTime":765.68,"body":"them on with. And that would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":765.68,"endTime":770.18,"body":"have covered the garment. In"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":765.68,"endTime":770.18,"body":"terms of the embroidery, some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":770.18,"endTime":774.5,"body":"the tufts of fabric that I"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":770.18,"endTime":774.5,"body":"mentioned earlier, have evidence"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":774.5,"endTime":778.01,"body":"-- it's been microscopically"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":774.5,"endTime":778.01,"body":"examined -- that looks like it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":778.01,"endTime":781.7,"body":"may have been partly"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":778.01,"endTime":781.7,"body":"embroidered. So that's another"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":781.7,"endTime":785.18,"body":"form of decoration on the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":781.7,"endTime":785.18,"body":"garment surface. They also had"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":785.18,"endTime":789.32,"body":"tassels and fringes on the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":785.18,"endTime":789.32,"body":"garments. So all of that is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":789.32,"endTime":792.23,"body":"creating motion and brilliance"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":789.32,"endTime":792.23,"body":"adding to the body."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":792.68,"endTime":798.17,"body":"Moving on down from the torso"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":792.68,"endTime":798.17,"body":"covering, there's some artifacts"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":798.17,"endTime":800.39,"body":"that we don't know how they were"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":798.17,"endTime":800.39,"body":"worn. I think they might have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":800.39,"endTime":804.59,"body":"been draped over the shoulders."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":800.39,"endTime":804.59,"body":"I call them body ornaments, but"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":804.59,"endTime":807.44,"body":"we don't have any depictions and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":804.59,"endTime":807.44,"body":"in to explain what they were."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":807.92,"endTime":811.58,"body":"Then you would have bracelets"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":807.92,"endTime":811.58,"body":"worn in pairs; one on each, at"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":811.58,"endTime":816.11,"body":"least one on each wrist. And you"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":811.58,"endTime":816.11,"body":"would have that matched with"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":816.14,"endTime":821.18,"body":"anklets. Again, worn in pairs."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":816.14,"endTime":821.18,"body":"And the anklets, they're ribbed"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":821.3,"endTime":825.56,"body":"and quite high. And if you just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":821.3,"endTime":825.56,"body":"see an image of it in art, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":825.56,"endTime":829.49,"body":"might think they're wearing a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":825.56,"endTime":829.49,"body":"stack of half a dozen bangles on"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":829.49,"endTime":833.72,"body":"their ankles. But these are cuff"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":829.49,"endTime":833.72,"body":"bracelets made of metal that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":833.72,"endTime":837.26,"body":"have the ridges that suggest"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":833.72,"endTime":837.26,"body":"that they're wearing a stack of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":837.26,"endTime":842.57,"body":"individual anklets. They had"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":837.26,"endTime":842.57,"body":"also rings, and rings come in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":842.57,"endTime":846.68,"body":"sets of 10. So you would have a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":842.57,"endTime":846.68,"body":"ring on every finger. It's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":846.68,"endTime":851.09,"body":"symmetrical, but covering every"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":846.68,"endTime":851.09,"body":"finger with a ring. There's even"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":851.12,"endTime":856.25,"body":"a tiny set of 10 rings that are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":851.12,"endTime":856.25,"body":"child's size. And they have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":856.28,"endTime":860.69,"body":"chains that attach them to a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":856.28,"endTime":860.69,"body":"bracelet. It's almost as if it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":860.69,"endTime":864.32,"body":"was training to get a young"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":860.69,"endTime":864.32,"body":"royal child used to wearing"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":864.32,"endTime":866.63,"body":"rings on all their fingers, but"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":864.32,"endTime":866.63,"body":"they wouldn't be able to play"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":866.63,"endTime":868.85,"body":"with them and take them off or"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":866.63,"endTime":868.85,"body":"possibly lose them."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":868.88,"endTime":872.21,"body":"Hmm. Do you think"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":868.88,"endTime":872.21,"body":"these features are female"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":872.24,"endTime":876.02,"body":"centered? Are they royal"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":872.24,"endTime":876.02,"body":"centered? Or royal females? What"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":876.0,"endTime":882.99,"body":"Well, I think that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":876.0,"endTime":882.99,"body":"they are royal centered. They're"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":876.02,"endTime":876.89,"body":"does it symbolise?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":883.02,"endTime":889.35,"body":"emblems of empire. And part of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":883.02,"endTime":889.35,"body":"what's the imagery when we start"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":889.38,"endTime":894.3,"body":"looking at at the jewelry, it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":889.38,"endTime":894.3,"body":"has images of trees, of flowers,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":894.3,"endTime":898.71,"body":"a lot of pomegranate show up."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":894.3,"endTime":898.71,"body":"You see that same kind of motif"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":898.74,"endTime":903.75,"body":"showing up in the decoration"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":898.74,"endTime":903.75,"body":"inside the palace. And as"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":903.75,"endTime":909.09,"body":"depicted on the garments and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":903.75,"endTime":909.09,"body":"objects associated with the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":909.09,"endTime":914.1,"body":"king. So it's kind of a shared"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":909.09,"endTime":914.1,"body":"iconography, a shared image of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":914.1,"endTime":917.37,"body":"empire that the queen is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":914.1,"endTime":917.37,"body":"participating in. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":917.37,"endTime":921.75,"body":"really important, because she's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":917.37,"endTime":921.75,"body":"partaking in this imagery. It's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":921.75,"endTime":925.41,"body":"not just what queens where. It's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":921.75,"endTime":925.41,"body":"what empire wears. It's what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":925.41,"endTime":930.12,"body":"empire is. It produces her as"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":925.41,"endTime":930.12,"body":"part of the matrix of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":930.12,"endTime":935.07,"body":"palace; part of the matrix of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":930.12,"endTime":935.07,"body":"the empire, and on par as a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":935.07,"endTime":936.54,"body":"partner to the king."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":936.96,"endTime":941.13,"body":"Now, within the ensemble of what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":936.96,"endTime":941.13,"body":"they're wearing, queens are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":941.13,"endTime":943.86,"body":"wearing a different head dress"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":941.13,"endTime":943.86,"body":"than the king, because you need"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":943.86,"endTime":948.27,"body":"to be able to recognise them,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":943.86,"endTime":948.27,"body":"immediately announcing rank."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":949.02,"endTime":951.96,"body":"This is the king. This is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":949.02,"endTime":951.96,"body":"queen. The crown prince would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":951.96,"endTime":956.73,"body":"also have his own specialised"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":951.96,"endTime":956.73,"body":"head dress. And then in terms of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":956.76,"endTime":960.6,"body":"the types of jewelry worn, there"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":956.76,"endTime":960.6,"body":"seem to be some earring forms"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":960.6,"endTime":964.62,"body":"that have pendants that are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":960.6,"endTime":964.62,"body":"hanging down; just a singular"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":964.65,"endTime":969.42,"body":"cylindrical kind of pendant."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":964.65,"endTime":969.42,"body":"That seems to be associated more"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":969.42,"endTime":973.41,"body":"with men and eunuchs in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":969.42,"endTime":973.41,"body":"court. And we don't have any"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":973.41,"endTime":976.92,"body":"examples of that showing up"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":973.41,"endTime":976.92,"body":"depicted on queens or in their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":976.92,"endTime":979.32,"body":"tombs. Whereas the queens'"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":976.92,"endTime":979.32,"body":"earrings are more"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":979.35,"endTime":983.1,"body":"crescent-shaped, with tiny"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":979.35,"endTime":983.1,"body":"pendants that might dangle down"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":983.1,"endTime":986.58,"body":"off of them almost like a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":983.1,"endTime":986.58,"body":"fringe. So there's some"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":986.58,"endTime":989.46,"body":"gendering, I think, in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":986.58,"endTime":989.46,"body":"design of the types of jewelry."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":989.91,"endTime":995.16,"body":"Also men and eunuchs also were"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":989.91,"endTime":995.16,"body":"wearing cuffs on the tops of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":995.16,"endTime":999.63,"body":"their arms to show off, or to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":995.16,"endTime":999.63,"body":"enhance the appearance of their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":999.66,"endTime":1005.54,"body":"biceps. And women's musculature,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":999.66,"endTime":1005.54,"body":"for ideals of femininity was not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1005.54,"endTime":1008.93,"body":"something that was emphasised."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1005.54,"endTime":1008.93,"body":"The female body was very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1008.93,"endTime":1012.92,"body":"smoothly presented, and not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1008.93,"endTime":1012.92,"body":"defined in terms of musculature."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1012.92,"endTime":1016.43,"body":"So you don't have something in a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1012.92,"endTime":1016.43,"body":"clamping around the bicep like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1016.43,"endTime":1019.94,"body":"you see in the other genders,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1016.43,"endTime":1019.94,"body":"but she would have the bracelets"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1019.97,"endTime":1023.0,"body":"on her wrists. Those are just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1019.97,"endTime":1023.0,"body":"some examples."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1023.81,"endTime":1027.02,"body":"So were these"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1023.81,"endTime":1027.02,"body":"items of dress the same across"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1027.02,"endTime":1031.28,"body":"the board? Or is there any hint"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1027.02,"endTime":1031.28,"body":"of individual or personal choice"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1031.31,"endTime":1033.05,"body":"in the dress of the queens?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1033.45,"endTime":1037.71,"body":"That is a great"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1033.45,"endTime":1037.71,"body":"question. And there is actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1037.71,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"a lot of difference within the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1037.71,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"sets of jewelry that were found"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1043.2,"endTime":1048.21,"body":"in the tombs. So overall, there"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1043.2,"endTime":1048.21,"body":"was an ensemble, that seems like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1048.21,"endTime":1051.3,"body":"it was followed according to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1048.21,"endTime":1051.3,"body":"convention. Just that what I"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1051.3,"endTime":1056.28,"body":"described from head to toe that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1051.3,"endTime":1056.28,"body":"a queen would wear. That is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1056.28,"endTime":1060.15,"body":"queenly dress. But within that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1056.28,"endTime":1060.15,"body":"ensemble, there looks like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1060.15,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"there's significant variation"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1060.15,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"from queen to queen. And even"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1064.08,"endTime":1068.37,"body":"just like in our own lives for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1064.08,"endTime":1068.37,"body":"an individual, perhaps on a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1068.37,"endTime":1072.99,"body":"day-to-day basis, or, at least"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1068.37,"endTime":1072.99,"body":"according to context and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1072.99,"endTime":1078.42,"body":"ceremony and events, you wear"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1072.99,"endTime":1078.42,"body":"something different. I speak of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1078.42,"endTime":1083.61,"body":"these variations, because there"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1078.42,"endTime":1083.61,"body":"will be when we look in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1083.61,"endTime":1087.72,"body":"tombs, in the coffins, there are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1083.61,"endTime":1087.72,"body":"many, many more pieces of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1087.72,"endTime":1092.34,"body":"jewelry, than could possibly be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1087.72,"endTime":1092.34,"body":"worn at once. And it looks like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1092.4,"endTime":1096.33,"body":"it's the queen's collection of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1092.4,"endTime":1096.33,"body":"jewelry that is being buried"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1096.33,"endTime":1100.92,"body":"with her. So one day she might"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1096.33,"endTime":1100.92,"body":"have chosen to wear one necklace"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1100.92,"endTime":1102.48,"body":"versus another."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1103.38,"endTime":1108.21,"body":"We also have a sense that while"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1103.38,"endTime":1108.21,"body":"there are some very standard"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1108.21,"endTime":1110.97,"body":"pieces, they might have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1108.21,"endTime":1110.97,"body":"represented, you know, like a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1110.97,"endTime":1114.15,"body":"particular type of bracelet, for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1110.97,"endTime":1114.15,"body":"example, that is found in two"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1114.15,"endTime":1117.09,"body":"different coffins. Two different"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1114.15,"endTime":1117.09,"body":"queens had the same type of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1117.09,"endTime":1120.66,"body":"bracelets. Oh, they're slightly"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1117.09,"endTime":1120.66,"body":"different sizes, so they were"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1120.69,"endTime":1124.74,"body":"probably scaled to the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1120.69,"endTime":1124.74,"body":"individual wrist size. That"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1124.74,"endTime":1127.62,"body":"might have been a fashion of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1124.74,"endTime":1127.62,"body":"time. It doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1127.62,"endTime":1130.89,"body":"mean that every queen had to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1127.62,"endTime":1130.89,"body":"wear a bracelet of exactly this"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1130.89,"endTime":1135.06,"body":"type. That might have been a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1130.89,"endTime":1135.06,"body":"desirable type of bracelet that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1135.06,"endTime":1137.82,"body":"the elite women were wearing at"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1135.06,"endTime":1137.82,"body":"that time."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1138.51,"endTime":1143.49,"body":"But then we also find totally"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1138.51,"endTime":1143.49,"body":"unique pieces of jewelry in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1143.49,"endTime":1146.7,"body":"different coffins. Now it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1143.49,"endTime":1146.7,"body":"possible because we only have a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1146.7,"endTime":1150.33,"body":"little snapshot through the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1146.7,"endTime":1150.33,"body":"archaeological evidence of what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1150.33,"endTime":1154.38,"body":"is preserved. There's possible"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1150.33,"endTime":1154.38,"body":"that there's 10 other bracelets"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1154.38,"endTime":1156.63,"body":"of these types I'm calling"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1154.38,"endTime":1156.63,"body":"unique, but they don't survive."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1156.63,"endTime":1159.24,"body":"They're not known to us yet. But"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1156.63,"endTime":1159.24,"body":"from what we can tell"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1159.24,"endTime":1163.02,"body":"archaeologically, we have these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1159.24,"endTime":1163.02,"body":"individual bracelets that have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1163.05,"endTime":1166.65,"body":"maybe unique imagery, unique"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1163.05,"endTime":1166.65,"body":"designs. And it brings up a lot"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1166.65,"endTime":1169.14,"body":"of questions that I can't"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1166.65,"endTime":1169.14,"body":"answer, but I'd like to"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1169.17,"endTime":1173.25,"body":"could the queens have"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1169.17,"endTime":1173.25,"body":"been personally commissioning"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1173.28,"endTime":1177.33,"body":"pieces of unique jewelry for"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1173.28,"endTime":1177.33,"body":"themselves? Were there jewelry"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1177.33,"endTime":1181.32,"body":"designers that were making"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1177.33,"endTime":1181.32,"body":"jewelry specifically for"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1181.38,"endTime":1185.16,"body":"individual queens to serve their"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1181.38,"endTime":1185.16,"body":"individual taste or their"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1185.16,"endTime":1187.98,"body":"individual needs? And those"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1185.16,"endTime":1187.98,"body":"needs might have been"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1188.28,"endTime":1191.61,"body":"ceremonial, imperial, ritual,"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1188.28,"endTime":1191.61,"body":"etc."},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1192.45,"endTime":1196.08,"body":"Some of the jewelry also that we"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1192.45,"endTime":1196.08,"body":"see as unique, it might have"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1196.08,"endTime":1199.71,"body":"come as part of a queen's dowry."},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1196.08,"endTime":1199.71,"body":"She might have brought it from"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1199.71,"endTime":1203.25,"body":"her birth family and in some"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1199.71,"endTime":1203.25,"body":"cases from the homeland of her"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1203.25,"endTime":1206.43,"body":"birth. So it might have been"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1203.25,"endTime":1206.43,"body":"coming from outside of Assyria."},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1207.18,"endTime":1210.87,"body":"There's kind of an international"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1207.18,"endTime":1210.87,"body":"elite culture of jewelry. So"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1210.87,"endTime":1214.77,"body":"it's hard to pinpoint the origin"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1210.87,"endTime":1214.77,"body":"necessarily of an earring or"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1214.77,"endTime":1218.91,"body":"bracelet type. But it may be"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1214.77,"endTime":1218.91,"body":"that some of this stuff is"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1218.94,"endTime":1223.83,"body":"entering into the Assyrian court"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1218.94,"endTime":1223.83,"body":"and looking unique to us. And it"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1223.83,"endTime":1226.98,"body":"would have really been showing"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1223.83,"endTime":1226.98,"body":"off her heritage or showing off"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1227.01,"endTime":1231.66,"body":"a family heirloom that was"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1227.01,"endTime":1231.66,"body":"special for her. So again,"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1231.69,"endTime":1235.56,"body":"within what is kind of a"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1231.69,"endTime":1235.56,"body":"standard royal Assyrian kit of"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1235.56,"endTime":1240.0,"body":"queenly dress, there seems to"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1235.56,"endTime":1240.0,"body":"have been lots of variation,"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1240.0,"endTime":1244.62,"body":"queen to queen and perhaps"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1240.0,"endTime":1244.62,"body":"personal choice on a day-to-day"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1244.65,"endTime":1249.63,"body":"or event-to-event basis for each"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1244.65,"endTime":1249.63,"body":"queen. What I would love to know"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1249.63,"endTime":1252.87,"body":"is, who dressed the queens when"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1249.63,"endTime":1252.87,"body":"they were buried? And how do"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1252.87,"endTime":1257.28,"body":"they decide which of these items"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1252.87,"endTime":1257.28,"body":"of jewelry to put on their"},{"speaker":"highlight","startTime":1257.28,"endTime":1257.94,"body":"bodies?"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1258.57,"endTime":1260.34,"body":"Hmm, I was just"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1258.57,"endTime":1260.34,"body":"wondering, do you think there's"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1260.34,"endTime":1264.45,"body":"a formalised burialwear that"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1260.34,"endTime":1264.45,"body":"you're expected to put on at"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1264.45,"endTime":1267.0,"body":"that point, rather than that"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1264.45,"endTime":1267.0,"body":"representing what you'd"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1267.0,"endTime":1270.12,"body":"ordinarily wear on court"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1267.0,"endTime":1270.12,"body":"appearances or, you know, behind"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1270.12,"endTime":1270.78,"body":"the scenes?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1271.02,"endTime":1275.31,"body":"So there very well"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1271.02,"endTime":1275.31,"body":"maybe, and that is something"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1275.31,"endTime":1279.57,"body":"that we don't have the evidence"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1275.31,"endTime":1279.57,"body":"to tell yet. If there is, it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1279.6,"endTime":1283.11,"body":"would, at least I think be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1279.6,"endTime":1283.11,"body":"ritual dress that they're being"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1283.11,"endTime":1286.83,"body":"buried in. Because this is a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1283.11,"endTime":1286.83,"body":"great ritual process that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1286.83,"endTime":1290.31,"body":"taking place in the tombs."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1286.83,"endTime":1290.31,"body":"They're also preparing to go"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1290.31,"endTime":1294.12,"body":"into the afterlife to live"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1290.31,"endTime":1294.12,"body":"eternally as royals. So they"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1294.12,"endTime":1298.44,"body":"need to be dressed in a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1294.12,"endTime":1298.44,"body":"recognisable way as a queen. But"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1298.44,"endTime":1302.88,"body":"I think it would be a queen in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1298.44,"endTime":1302.88,"body":"ritual. But we don't have enough"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1302.88,"endTime":1306.81,"body":"comparison to really put our"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1302.88,"endTime":1306.81,"body":"finger on what the dress"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1306.81,"endTime":1310.95,"body":"ensembles meant for sure that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1306.81,"endTime":1310.95,"body":"they were buried in. But I would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1310.95,"endTime":1314.49,"body":"hazard a guess that they're in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1310.95,"endTime":1314.49,"body":"their ritual dress."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1314.82,"endTime":1317.04,"body":"I also really"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1314.82,"endTime":1317.04,"body":"like your idea of there being an"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1317.04,"endTime":1321.0,"body":"internal economy in the palace"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1317.04,"endTime":1321.0,"body":"for just creating things just"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1321.0,"endTime":1326.22,"body":"for the queen to wear. How"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1321.0,"endTime":1326.22,"body":"likely do you think that is? Is"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1326.22,"endTime":1329.88,"body":"there any record of jewelry"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1326.22,"endTime":1329.88,"body":"makers and textile workers in"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1329.88,"endTime":1330.75,"body":"the palace?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1330.96,"endTime":1335.07,"body":"There are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1330.96,"endTime":1335.07,"body":"definitely royal textile workers"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1335.07,"endTime":1340.14,"body":"and jewelry producers. However,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1335.07,"endTime":1340.14,"body":"we don't know if they were"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1340.14,"endTime":1343.14,"body":"working specifically for the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1340.14,"endTime":1343.14,"body":"queen. We don't know if they're"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1343.17,"endTime":1347.67,"body":"just carrying out some imperial"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1343.17,"endTime":1347.67,"body":"template. Or if there are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1347.67,"endTime":1351.9,"body":"individual requests for what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1347.67,"endTime":1351.9,"body":"should be made. There's also a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1351.9,"endTime":1354.81,"body":"hairdresser that worked in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1351.9,"endTime":1354.81,"body":"palace that would serve the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1354.81,"endTime":1359.43,"body":"queen and a perfume maker for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1354.81,"endTime":1359.43,"body":"the palace as well. And all of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1359.43,"endTime":1362.94,"body":"that, again, it's part of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1359.43,"endTime":1362.94,"body":"multisensory aspect of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1362.94,"endTime":1363.99,"body":"queen's dress."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1364.62,"endTime":1366.87,"body":"Do you think that"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1364.62,"endTime":1366.87,"body":"is something that you could come"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1366.87,"endTime":1371.01,"body":"back to in experimental things,"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1366.87,"endTime":1371.01,"body":"like this perfumery. I'd love to"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1371.01,"endTime":1373.02,"body":"hear your thoughts on whether"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1371.01,"endTime":1373.02,"body":"you think we could recreate the"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1373.02,"endTime":1374.49,"body":"smell of being a queen."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1374.94,"endTime":1379.44,"body":"Ooh, that is very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1374.94,"endTime":1379.44,"body":"intriguing and tempting to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1379.44,"endTime":1385.83,"body":"explore. So I would have to look"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1379.44,"endTime":1385.83,"body":"at some publications on the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1385.86,"endTime":1389.25,"body":"perfumes and I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1385.86,"endTime":1389.25,"body":"they include recipes or"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1389.25,"endTime":1393.45,"body":"descriptions of the scent. But"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1389.25,"endTime":1393.45,"body":"if they do, that would be a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1393.45,"endTime":1396.0,"body":"place to start. If they do not,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1393.45,"endTime":1396.0,"body":"we'd have to get very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1400.38,"body":"experimental. And perhaps look"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1400.38,"body":"at the types of fruits and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1400.38,"endTime":1404.91,"body":"floral imagery that is being"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1400.38,"endTime":1404.91,"body":"worn in their jewelry, in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1404.91,"endTime":1408.75,"body":"queen's dress and see, well,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1404.91,"endTime":1408.75,"body":"might she have been meant to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1408.78,"endTime":1413.52,"body":"exude an aroma of these fruits"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1408.78,"endTime":1413.52,"body":"and flowers that she's wearing"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1413.52,"endTime":1414.69,"body":"on her body too?"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1415.2,"endTime":1417.18,"body":"Interesting. Perhaps"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1415.2,"endTime":1417.18,"body":"you could say something else"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1417.18,"endTime":1419.67,"body":"about the other senses? Because"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1417.18,"endTime":1419.67,"body":"I think you mention, don't you,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1419.67,"endTime":1423.06,"body":"that there was adornments on the"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1419.67,"endTime":1423.06,"body":"queenly clothing, and do you not"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1423.06,"endTime":1426.0,"body":"suggest that perhaps that gave"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1423.06,"endTime":1426.0,"body":"her a kind of visible presence,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1426.0,"endTime":1429.63,"body":"a kind of sparkle? Or could you"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1426.0,"endTime":1429.63,"body":"hear a coming as she comes down"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1429.63,"endTime":1433.26,"body":"the corridor and she has all"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1429.63,"endTime":1433.26,"body":"these jewels banging around? Is"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1433.26,"endTime":1436.71,"body":"there a multi-sensory queenly"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1433.26,"endTime":1436.71,"body":"presence that's being created"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1436.71,"endTime":1437.31,"body":"with dress?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1437.85,"endTime":1442.26,"body":"There absolutely"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1437.85,"endTime":1442.26,"body":"is. The queen, like the king,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1442.29,"endTime":1446.76,"body":"would have been presented as"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1442.29,"endTime":1446.76,"body":"larger than life, I think, just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1446.82,"endTime":1451.02,"body":"from the example of these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1446.82,"endTime":1451.02,"body":"outsized headdresses and the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1451.02,"endTime":1458.01,"body":"hairstyles and the gleam, the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1451.02,"endTime":1458.01,"body":"radiance that is bouncing off of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1458.01,"endTime":1462.39,"body":"their bodies from head to toe,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1458.01,"endTime":1462.39,"body":"especially with these decorated"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1462.39,"endTime":1465.6,"body":"garments and even the parts of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1462.39,"endTime":1465.6,"body":"the garments that are not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1465.6,"endTime":1470.31,"body":"covered in gold sequins. The"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1465.6,"endTime":1470.31,"body":"garments from what we can tell"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1470.34,"endTime":1473.28,"body":"from the bits of fabric"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1470.34,"endTime":1473.28,"body":"preserved in the tombs were"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1473.31,"endTime":1476.1,"body":"white. They might have even been"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1473.31,"endTime":1476.1,"body":"bleached white. So you have to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1476.1,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"imagine this brilliant white"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1476.1,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"robe. There's even a possibility"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1480.24,"endTime":1484.68,"body":"that the fabric was burnished,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1480.24,"endTime":1484.68,"body":"so it would have been shiny. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1484.68,"endTime":1488.97,"body":"the fabric itself is light,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1484.68,"endTime":1488.97,"body":"bright, reflecting light. Then"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1488.97,"endTime":1491.64,"body":"you have the jewelry and the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1488.97,"endTime":1491.64,"body":"ornaments on it. That's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1491.64,"endTime":1496.14,"body":"reflecting light. And this is a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1491.64,"endTime":1496.14,"body":"quality, a divine quality of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1496.14,"endTime":1499.35,"body":"radiance that we see even in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1496.14,"endTime":1499.35,"body":"texts described as being"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1499.35,"endTime":1502.23,"body":"imparted on the king. If the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1499.35,"endTime":1502.23,"body":"queen is the king's partner,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1502.23,"endTime":1506.01,"body":"she's really also carrying that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1502.23,"endTime":1506.01,"body":"touched by the divine radiance."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1506.01,"endTime":1510.45,"body":"So they are mortals, but they're"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1506.01,"endTime":1510.45,"body":"the mortals most closely"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1510.45,"endTime":1513.54,"body":"connected to the divine. They"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1510.45,"endTime":1513.54,"body":"carry this special"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1513.54,"endTime":1517.47,"body":"characteristic of radiance that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1513.54,"endTime":1517.47,"body":"I think increases. It's like an"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1517.5,"endTime":1520.98,"body":"aura of their presence. Their"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1517.5,"endTime":1520.98,"body":"presence extends beyond the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1520.98,"endTime":1521.46,"body":"body."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1522.18,"endTime":1525.48,"body":"And then you can think about"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1522.18,"endTime":1525.48,"body":"with multisensory consideration"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1525.48,"endTime":1529.41,"body":"how their presence could extend"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1525.48,"endTime":1529.41,"body":"beyond their body. Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1529.41,"endTime":1532.74,"body":"I'm sure you could hear them"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1529.41,"endTime":1532.74,"body":"coming down the hall, turning"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1532.74,"endTime":1536.01,"body":"the corner before you could see"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1532.74,"endTime":1536.01,"body":"them. You'd hear swooshing of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1536.01,"endTime":1538.8,"body":"these layered and draped"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1536.01,"endTime":1538.8,"body":"garments. You would hear the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1538.8,"endTime":1543.33,"body":"tinkling of the jewelry,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1538.8,"endTime":1543.33,"body":"possibly the clanking of anklets"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1543.33,"endTime":1547.17,"body":"on shoes or something like that."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1543.33,"endTime":1547.17,"body":"But you could hear them before"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1547.17,"endTime":1550.59,"body":"you could see them. When you"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1547.17,"endTime":1550.59,"body":"would see them, the closer they"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1550.59,"endTime":1555.18,"body":"get if they're perfumed, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1550.59,"endTime":1555.18,"body":"would be able to smell that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1555.21,"endTime":1556.38,"body":"royal presence."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1556.53,"endTime":1559.08,"body":"Hmmm. Does that"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1556.53,"endTime":1559.08,"body":"imply then that there is a"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1559.08,"endTime":1562.95,"body":"status related set of"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1559.08,"endTime":1562.95,"body":"conventions about who can wear"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1563.19,"endTime":1566.04,"body":"jewelry and of how much jewelry,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1563.19,"endTime":1566.04,"body":"things like that, so that you"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1566.04,"endTime":1567.99,"body":"can't upstage the queen, say?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1568.35,"endTime":1571.47,"body":"Yeah, well, I don't"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1568.35,"endTime":1571.47,"body":"know of any record like we have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1571.47,"endTime":1575.4,"body":"in ancient Rome, about who can"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1571.47,"endTime":1575.4,"body":"wear and how much jewelry or in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1575.4,"endTime":1579.15,"body":"public. But absolutely, when you"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1575.4,"endTime":1579.15,"body":"look at the art, you can"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1579.15,"endTime":1583.83,"body":"differentiate who the queen is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1579.15,"endTime":1583.83,"body":"versus other royal women or"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1584.01,"endTime":1588.36,"body":"women who are ranked below and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1584.01,"endTime":1588.36,"body":"surveying the royal couple, for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1588.36,"endTime":1594.15,"body":"example. And I'm sure that to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1588.36,"endTime":1594.15,"body":"recognised as the queen, one of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1594.15,"endTime":1598.74,"body":"the criteria is that you are the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1594.15,"endTime":1598.74,"body":"most highly-adorned mortal woman"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1598.77,"endTime":1599.94,"body":"in Assyria."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1600.45,"endTime":1603.09,"body":"And you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1600.45,"endTime":1603.09,"body":"as well that there are bits in"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1603.12,"endTime":1607.68,"body":"the dress that might point to an"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1603.12,"endTime":1607.68,"body":"international life of these"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1607.68,"endTime":1612.57,"body":"women. How far can we take that?"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1607.68,"endTime":1612.57,"body":"So what does the dress of these"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1612.57,"endTime":1614.79,"body":"women indicate about their"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":1612.57,"endTime":1614.79,"body":"lives?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1614.97,"endTime":1618.18,"body":"So I mean, you can"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1614.97,"endTime":1618.18,"body":"push it as far as you want to."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1618.21,"endTime":1624.03,"body":"But sticking within the evidence"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1618.21,"endTime":1624.03,"body":"that we have, there's, for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1624.03,"endTime":1627.75,"body":"example, some fibulae. Those are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1624.03,"endTime":1627.75,"body":"like the ancient safety pins to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1627.75,"endTime":1630.87,"body":"pin the garment that were found"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1627.75,"endTime":1630.87,"body":"in one of the tombs. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1630.9,"endTime":1635.43,"body":"dangling off of them are several"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1630.9,"endTime":1635.43,"body":"little scarabs. So carved stones"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1635.43,"endTime":1640.02,"body":"that look like beetles. It's an"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1635.43,"endTime":1640.02,"body":"Egyptian symbol. They were also"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1640.02,"endTime":1645.63,"body":"produced in the Levant as an"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1640.02,"endTime":1645.63,"body":"Egyptianising motif. Were these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1645.66,"endTime":1650.61,"body":"Levantine or even Egyptian items"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1645.66,"endTime":1650.61,"body":"that were imported to Assyria?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1650.64,"endTime":1654.6,"body":"That is a possibility, but the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1650.64,"endTime":1654.6,"body":"fibulae themselves -- this is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1654.6,"endTime":1657.36,"body":"why I find this particular"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1654.6,"endTime":1657.36,"body":"artifacts really interesting"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1657.39,"endTime":1660.54,"body":"--the fibulae are appearing to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1657.39,"endTime":1660.54,"body":"be Assyrian style. So you have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1660.57,"endTime":1667.11,"body":"the Assyrian empire, holding on"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1660.57,"endTime":1667.11,"body":"to its periphery or its desired"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1667.14,"endTime":1672.15,"body":"edges of the world. And that is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1667.14,"endTime":1672.15,"body":"telling us a story of empire."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1672.27,"endTime":1675.3,"body":"The story of empire might also"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1672.27,"endTime":1675.3,"body":"be told through the queens"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1675.3,"endTime":1679.26,"body":"themselves. There has been a lot"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1675.3,"endTime":1679.26,"body":"of research suggesting that at"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1679.26,"endTime":1683.34,"body":"least some of the queens were of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1679.26,"endTime":1683.34,"body":"Levantine heritage. So that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1683.34,"endTime":1686.58,"body":"would suggest they're bringing"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1683.34,"endTime":1686.58,"body":"dowries in of non-Assyrian"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1686.61,"endTime":1691.56,"body":"objects. But there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1686.61,"endTime":1691.56,"body":"this intercultural and broad"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1691.59,"endTime":1695.58,"body":"Near Eastern elite style of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1691.59,"endTime":1695.58,"body":"jewelry that we find as well."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1696.06,"endTime":1699.48,"body":"Wearing those items that are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1696.06,"endTime":1699.48,"body":"absolutely Assyrian, but that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1699.48,"endTime":1703.41,"body":"you could also wear in other"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1699.48,"endTime":1703.41,"body":"parts of the Near East. Again,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1703.41,"endTime":1707.22,"body":"it just represents the breadth,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1703.41,"endTime":1707.22,"body":"the presence of the empire and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1707.22,"endTime":1710.22,"body":"the presence of these women in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1707.22,"endTime":1710.22,"body":"the world, not just in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1710.22,"endTime":1713.19,"body":"palace, not just in the Assyrian"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1710.22,"endTime":1713.19,"body":"empire. You've got to think of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1713.19,"endTime":1716.1,"body":"the Assyrian empire from the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1713.19,"endTime":1716.1,"body":"Assyrian point of view: that is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1716.13,"endTime":1718.68,"body":"the world in its totality."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1719.28,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"Amy, you've just"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1719.28,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"finished a book. So first of"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1721.68,"endTime":1724.47,"body":"all, congratulations on that."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1721.68,"endTime":1724.47,"body":"What is this book about?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1724.89,"endTime":1728.52,"body":"Well, the book --"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1724.89,"endTime":1728.52,"body":"the title right now is The"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1728.52,"endTime":1731.64,"body":"Queens of Nimrud's Northwest"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1728.52,"endTime":1731.64,"body":"Palace: Beauty, Power and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1731.64,"endTime":1737.4,"body":"Presence in the Neo-Assyrian"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1731.64,"endTime":1737.4,"body":"world. And the most important"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1737.43,"endTime":1741.99,"body":"words in that title are \"beauty,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1737.43,"endTime":1741.99,"body":"power, and presence\". So I"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1741.99,"endTime":1747.36,"body":"approach the queens as the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1741.99,"endTime":1747.36,"body":"epitome of feminine beauty, just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1747.36,"endTime":1753.0,"body":"as the king would be the epitome"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1747.36,"endTime":1753.0,"body":"of male beauty, at least on"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1753.03,"endTime":1758.94,"body":"Earth; the mortal embodiment of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1753.03,"endTime":1758.94,"body":"the ideals of beauty. Power is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1758.94,"endTime":1762.06,"body":"really important. These were not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1758.94,"endTime":1762.06,"body":"just beautiful, helpless women."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1762.06,"endTime":1768.45,"body":"These were agents of empire. The"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1762.06,"endTime":1768.45,"body":"queens had administrative royal"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1768.48,"endTime":1773.58,"body":"roles. To be a queen was to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1768.48,"endTime":1773.58,"body":"appointed to a royal position."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1773.58,"endTime":1776.82,"body":"It wasn't just to be there."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1773.58,"endTime":1776.82,"body":"Mostly they're mothers of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1776.82,"endTime":1780.06,"body":"king and consort queens. But"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1776.82,"endTime":1780.06,"body":"they're not just women related"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1780.06,"endTime":1784.56,"body":"to the king, they are women"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1780.06,"endTime":1784.56,"body":"enacting power in the palace, in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1784.56,"endTime":1785.34,"body":"the empire."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1785.52,"endTime":1789.93,"body":"And that brings us to that word"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1785.52,"endTime":1789.93,"body":"\"presence\". They were present"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1789.93,"endTime":1793.92,"body":"fixtures. The queen was a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1789.93,"endTime":1793.92,"body":"present fixture in the empire,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1793.95,"endTime":1797.49,"body":"in the world, and I think that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1793.95,"endTime":1797.49,"body":"she would have been seen. She"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1797.49,"endTime":1801.15,"body":"would have been accessible. Her"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1797.49,"endTime":1801.15,"body":"presence in the palace would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1801.15,"endTime":1804.18,"body":"have been palpable. We just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1801.15,"endTime":1804.18,"body":"talked about what she looked"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1804.18,"endTime":1809.79,"body":"like. She would have been seen,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1804.18,"endTime":1809.79,"body":"heard, you might smell the aroma"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1809.79,"endTime":1813.75,"body":"of her perfume. She could sit on"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1809.79,"endTime":1813.75,"body":"a throne, she had a throne room"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1813.75,"endTime":1817.86,"body":"in the palace, as I argue in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1813.75,"endTime":1817.86,"body":"book. So to be in the presence"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1817.86,"endTime":1822.18,"body":"of the queen for a member of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1817.86,"endTime":1822.18,"body":"court, it would have been part"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1822.18,"endTime":1825.9,"body":"of royal life. But there may"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1822.18,"endTime":1825.9,"body":"have been a desire among those"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1825.93,"endTime":1829.26,"body":"outside of the daily"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1825.93,"endTime":1829.26,"body":"administration of the court to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1829.26,"endTime":1835.92,"body":"see the queen, to bask in her"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1829.26,"endTime":1835.92,"body":"power, beauty, and presence that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1835.95,"endTime":1841.11,"body":"I can't be certain of. But when"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1835.95,"endTime":1841.11,"body":"you imagine her appearance in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1841.11,"endTime":1845.67,"body":"this multi-sensory way, it"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1841.11,"endTime":1845.67,"body":"wasn't somebody that was to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1845.7,"endTime":1849.15,"body":"hidden from sight or hidden from"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1845.7,"endTime":1849.15,"body":"the world, it was somebody to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1849.15,"endTime":1850.2,"body":"presented."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1850.56,"endTime":1854.34,"body":"Interesting. Can I"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1850.56,"endTime":1854.34,"body":"ask about beauty standards? When"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1854.34,"endTime":1857.31,"body":"you use the word beauty, are"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1854.34,"endTime":1857.31,"body":"there particular characteristics"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1857.31,"endTime":1860.49,"body":"or features or behaviours that"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1857.31,"endTime":1860.49,"body":"are deemed beautiful? Do we know"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":1860.49,"endTime":1860.88,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1861.45,"endTime":1866.73,"body":"Okay, well, beauty"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1861.45,"endTime":1866.73,"body":"in any culture is a very complex"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1866.76,"endTime":1871.92,"body":"construct. Its social, its"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1866.76,"endTime":1871.92,"body":"cultural. And if we want to talk"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1871.92,"endTime":1876.42,"body":"about and investigate ancient"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1871.92,"endTime":1876.42,"body":"Assyrian beauty, the first"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1876.42,"endTime":1880.47,"body":"challenge is that there is not a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1876.42,"endTime":1880.47,"body":"word for beauty, as we see it,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1880.47,"endTime":1884.46,"body":"as kind of an umbrella"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1880.47,"endTime":1884.46,"body":"encapsulation. I started with"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1884.49,"endTime":1889.92,"body":"the textual record, at the start"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1884.49,"endTime":1889.92,"body":"to look for descriptors of what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1889.92,"endTime":1895.02,"body":"is ideal, and what is"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1889.92,"endTime":1895.02,"body":"perfection. And those we can"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1895.02,"endTime":1900.45,"body":"find in descriptions of deities,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1895.02,"endTime":1900.45,"body":"as well as descriptions of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1900.45,"endTime":1905.58,"body":"king. And we can even look to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1900.45,"endTime":1905.58,"body":"aesthetics and descriptions of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1905.58,"endTime":1910.26,"body":"ideal objects to get a notion of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1905.58,"endTime":1910.26,"body":"what is a positively-coded"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1910.32,"endTime":1916.11,"body":"aspect of some presence. So when"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1910.32,"endTime":1916.11,"body":"we work through this, there are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1916.11,"endTime":1920.64,"body":"a lot of Akkadian terms that I"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1916.11,"endTime":1920.64,"body":"have pulled together and that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1920.64,"endTime":1925.38,"body":"others have worked on as well,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1920.64,"endTime":1925.38,"body":"that are encoding what I'm"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1925.38,"endTime":1929.85,"body":"interpreting, as a construct of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1925.38,"endTime":1929.85,"body":"ideal feminine beauty embodied"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1929.88,"endTime":1931.02,"body":"in the Neo-Assyrian queen."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1931.0,"endTime":1934.48,"body":"I know that is a huge mouthful,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1931.0,"endTime":1934.48,"body":"and you're just curious of what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1934.51,"endTime":1937.48,"body":"was a beautiful queen, what was"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1934.51,"endTime":1937.48,"body":"a beautiful woman supposed to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1937.48,"endTime":1941.98,"body":"look like? Well, instead of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1937.48,"endTime":1941.98,"body":"look, let's think of be like."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1942.76,"endTime":1947.11,"body":"It's more than just visual. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1942.76,"endTime":1947.11,"body":"beauty is something that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1947.17,"endTime":1951.64,"body":"internal as well as externally"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1947.17,"endTime":1951.64,"body":"exhibited. At least, as I'm"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1951.67,"endTime":1955.54,"body":"finding it in some of these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1951.67,"endTime":1955.54,"body":"descriptors that we have. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1955.54,"endTime":1958.96,"body":"radiance, something we already"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1955.54,"endTime":1958.96,"body":"talked about, would be an aspect"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1964.75,"body":"of beauty. Have this brilliant,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1964.75,"body":"lit-up presence. So we would"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1964.75,"endTime":1969.04,"body":"have radiane. You would have"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1964.75,"endTime":1969.04,"body":"symmetrical, well-proportioned"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1969.07,"endTime":1974.8,"body":"figure, as is also an aspect of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1969.07,"endTime":1974.8,"body":"beauty. And that relates to what"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1974.8,"endTime":1977.05,"body":"we find in art. It relates to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1974.8,"endTime":1977.05,"body":"what we find in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1977.05,"endTime":1979.69,"body":"archaeological record with the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1977.05,"endTime":1979.69,"body":"jewelry, of everything always"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1979.69,"endTime":1984.28,"body":"been in pairs, equal on both"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1979.69,"endTime":1984.28,"body":"sides of the body. You want to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1984.28,"endTime":1987.19,"body":"have, it's kind of a more"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1984.28,"endTime":1987.19,"body":"internal and social"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1987.19,"endTime":1991.6,"body":"characteristic, perhaps a good"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1987.19,"endTime":1991.6,"body":"pedigree, a good upbringing,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1992.05,"endTime":1996.73,"body":"that would be looked at as part"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1992.05,"endTime":1996.73,"body":"of the formation of a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1996.76,"endTime":1997.36,"body":"woman."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1997.95,"endTime":2002.27,"body":"Some of these things also relate"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":1997.95,"endTime":2002.27,"body":"to a masculinity as well. You"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2002.27,"endTime":2009.05,"body":"will have a vitality, vivacity"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2002.27,"endTime":2009.05,"body":"and lifefulness about you. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2009.08,"endTime":2014.24,"body":"even in death that could be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2009.08,"endTime":2014.24,"body":"extended and represented through"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2014.24,"endTime":2019.46,"body":"that jewelry that is showing"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2014.24,"endTime":2019.46,"body":"blossoming flowers and fruiting"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2019.52,"endTime":2024.44,"body":"plants and things like that. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2019.52,"endTime":2024.44,"body":"the vitality of the presence."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2025.16,"endTime":2030.8,"body":"There are many sub-categories"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2025.16,"endTime":2030.8,"body":"that start to overlap in some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2030.8,"endTime":2035.66,"body":"their aspects and connotations."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2030.8,"endTime":2035.66,"body":"So, sexuality and fertility"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2035.69,"endTime":2039.59,"body":"start to come up and get cued"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2035.69,"endTime":2039.59,"body":"through different terms in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2039.59,"endTime":2042.68,"body":"different contexts in which"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2039.59,"endTime":2042.68,"body":"they're used. So in terms of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2042.68,"endTime":2047.33,"body":"sexuality, I mean being a sexual"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2042.68,"endTime":2047.33,"body":"person. In terms of fertility,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2047.51,"endTime":2051.77,"body":"being associated with fertility."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2047.51,"endTime":2051.77,"body":"And none of these aspects of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2051.77,"endTime":2055.55,"body":"beauty mean that say you could"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2051.77,"endTime":2055.55,"body":"be a barren woman, but"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2056.03,"endTime":2061.37,"body":"represent, put forth the image"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2056.03,"endTime":2061.37,"body":"of fertility and it's both"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2061.37,"endTime":2065.06,"body":"biological fertility and as a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2061.37,"endTime":2065.06,"body":"body of empire and agent of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2065.06,"endTime":2069.92,"body":"empire, the queen is putting"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2065.06,"endTime":2069.92,"body":"forth the ideal of fecundity of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2069.95,"endTime":2074.51,"body":"the land. That's also part of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2069.95,"endTime":2074.51,"body":"the whole empire's standard and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2074.51,"endTime":2080.0,"body":"ideal. You're embodying these"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2074.51,"endTime":2080.0,"body":"great, broad ideals, and that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2080.0,"endTime":2085.34,"body":"part of the beauty. What would a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2080.0,"endTime":2085.34,"body":"queen look like? I like to just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2085.34,"endTime":2088.94,"body":"say she would be meant to look"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2085.34,"endTime":2088.94,"body":"like a goddess. She's meant to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2088.94,"endTime":2093.95,"body":"look like the utter perfection"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2088.94,"endTime":2093.95,"body":"of femininity embodied in a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2093.95,"endTime":2095.27,"body":"human presence."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2095.66,"endTime":2098.09,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2095.66,"endTime":2098.09,"body":"fantastic. I wonder a bit if the"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2098.18,"endTime":2102.02,"body":"slightly constrictive dress"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2098.18,"endTime":2102.02,"body":"plays a role in your court"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2102.02,"endTime":2104.84,"body":"ceremonies. You're the queen,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2102.02,"endTime":2104.84,"body":"and you're brought out on this"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2104.84,"endTime":2107.96,"body":"formal, very boring, long"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2104.84,"endTime":2107.96,"body":"reception where you have to sit"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2107.96,"endTime":2110.87,"body":"there, and if that constricted"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2107.96,"endTime":2110.87,"body":"dress is part of it, or if it"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2110.87,"endTime":2114.32,"body":"helps you not get backache or"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2110.87,"endTime":2114.32,"body":"something like that? Those kind"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2114.32,"endTime":2115.55,"body":"of formal aspects."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2115.61,"endTime":2118.52,"body":"Yeah, it very well"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2115.61,"endTime":2118.52,"body":"might be, because having an"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2118.55,"endTime":2125.09,"body":"upright posture was an ideal for"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2118.55,"endTime":2125.09,"body":"men and women. The person coming"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2125.09,"endTime":2129.14,"body":"to visit the empire from outside"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2125.09,"endTime":2129.14,"body":"of Assyria would be groveling,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2129.17,"endTime":2133.22,"body":"or you see a captive with"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2129.17,"endTime":2133.22,"body":"stooped posture. So having this"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2133.22,"endTime":2137.81,"body":"very erect posture, which I even"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2133.22,"endTime":2137.81,"body":"tried to replicate when I was"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2137.84,"endTime":2141.38,"body":"wearing it, was very"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2137.84,"endTime":2141.38,"body":"uncomfortable. Not standing in a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2141.38,"endTime":2144.98,"body":"relaxed stance, but trying to be"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2141.38,"endTime":2144.98,"body":"very upright like we see it in"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2144.98,"endTime":2149.27,"body":"the images. But if the garment"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2144.98,"endTime":2149.27,"body":"is holding you in place, you can"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2149.27,"endTime":2153.68,"body":"feel it, reminding you to stand"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2149.27,"endTime":2153.68,"body":"up, and to keep those hemlines"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2153.71,"endTime":2159.92,"body":"exactly parallel, that really"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2153.71,"endTime":2159.92,"body":"might have reinforced this ideal"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2159.92,"endTime":2160.64,"body":"posture."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2161.47,"endTime":2163.78,"body":"It's something"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2161.47,"endTime":2163.78,"body":"that I in my spare time do"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2163.81,"endTime":2166.93,"body":"ridiculous attempts of"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2163.81,"endTime":2166.93,"body":"recreating medieval garments."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2167.38,"endTime":2169.99,"body":"But it reminds me of a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2167.38,"endTime":2169.99,"body":"the stuff that I've tried to do,"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2169.99,"endTime":2174.16,"body":"and it seems like a recurring"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2169.99,"endTime":2174.16,"body":"thing. The more restrictive or"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2174.16,"endTime":2178.33,"body":"the harder to wear something is,"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2174.16,"endTime":2178.33,"body":"the higher up in status you are."},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2179.11,"endTime":2181.36,"body":"As you were talking about the"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2179.11,"endTime":2181.36,"body":"draping and making sure all the"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2181.36,"endTime":2184.09,"body":"hemlines and all the creases"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2181.36,"endTime":2184.09,"body":"were kept in place and thinking"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2184.09,"endTime":2187.99,"body":"of the wedding saris in India"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2184.09,"endTime":2187.99,"body":"and of the Roman togas and"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2188.38,"endTime":2191.08,"body":"things where you have to stand"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2188.38,"endTime":2191.08,"body":"in one place to show off just"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2191.08,"endTime":2194.65,"body":"how little you have to do in"},{"speaker":"Ellie Bennett","startTime":2191.08,"endTime":2194.65,"body":"life, just to get by."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2195.8,"endTime":2199.97,"body":"Yeah, I also have a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2195.8,"endTime":2199.97,"body":"hunch ... I could be wrong ..."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2200.0,"endTime":2204.92,"body":"but if their ideals are the gods"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2200.0,"endTime":2204.92,"body":"and goddesses. They're used to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2204.92,"endTime":2208.91,"body":"seeing cult statues that are"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2204.92,"endTime":2208.91,"body":"carved and standing perfectly"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2208.91,"endTime":2214.4,"body":"still and upright. So it might"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2208.91,"endTime":2214.4,"body":"be emulating that posture that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2214.4,"endTime":2216.11,"body":"they would see in the cult"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2214.4,"endTime":2216.11,"body":"statue too."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2216.38,"endTime":2220.61,"body":"Hmm. Wow, wow, wow."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2216.38,"endTime":2220.61,"body":"This is fascinating. Can you"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2220.61,"endTime":2223.73,"body":"remind us please, what is your"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2220.61,"endTime":2223.73,"body":"book called, and when is it due"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2223.73,"endTime":2224.18,"body":"out?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2224.84,"endTime":2227.96,"body":"The book right now"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2224.84,"endTime":2227.96,"body":"is called The Queen's of"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2227.96,"endTime":2230.6,"body":"Beauty, Power and Presence in"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2230.6,"endTime":2233.18,"body":"the Neo-Assyrian world. And I"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2230.6,"endTime":2233.18,"body":"think I need to add the dates,"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2233.18,"endTime":2237.02,"body":"because the public might not"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2233.18,"endTime":2237.02,"body":"know this is about circa 866 to"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2237.05,"endTime":2242.36,"body":"705 BCE. I would love to start"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2237.05,"endTime":2242.36,"body":"the title off as Beauty, power"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2242.36,"endTime":2246.44,"body":"and presence, but again, you'd"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2242.36,"endTime":2246.44,"body":"have to read through the title"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2246.44,"endTime":2249.95,"body":"to find out whose beauty power"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2246.44,"endTime":2249.95,"body":"and presence that is. When is it"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2249.95,"endTime":2254.27,"body":"due out and with whom? It's with"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2249.95,"endTime":2254.27,"body":"Oxford University Press. And"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2254.27,"endTime":2258.71,"body":"hopefully it will be out at the"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2254.27,"endTime":2258.71,"body":"end of 2024 or early on to"},{"speaker":"Nimrud's Northwest Palace","startTime":2258.71,"endTime":2261.29,"body":"celebrate the beginning of 2025."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2261.86,"endTime":2264.14,"body":"We're very much"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2261.86,"endTime":2264.14,"body":"looking forward to that. Is"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2264.14,"endTime":2266.03,"body":"there anything else that we"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2264.14,"endTime":2266.03,"body":"should have asked you?"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2266.57,"endTime":2269.87,"body":"One thing I want to"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2266.57,"endTime":2269.87,"body":"mention is sometimes the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2269.87,"endTime":2273.56,"body":"archaeological finds, it's not"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2269.87,"endTime":2273.56,"body":"that they differ from what we"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2273.56,"endTime":2275.99,"body":"see in artistic representations,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2273.56,"endTime":2275.99,"body":"but they give us more"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2275.99,"endTime":2280.31,"body":"information. And one of those"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2275.99,"endTime":2280.31,"body":"areas of more information is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2280.31,"endTime":2285.47,"body":"material and especially the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2280.31,"endTime":2285.47,"body":"colour. So we can finally see"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2285.5,"endTime":2288.65,"body":"the art that's preserved has"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2285.5,"endTime":2288.65,"body":"lost its colour, especially"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2288.65,"endTime":2292.01,"body":"stone carvings like gray or tan."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2288.65,"endTime":2292.01,"body":"And we have this really"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2292.04,"endTime":2294.53,"body":"washed-out image. It's like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2292.04,"endTime":2294.53,"body":"looking at black and white"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2294.53,"endTime":2299.27,"body":"photos of the past. But the past"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2294.53,"endTime":2299.27,"body":"was a time of vivid colours. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2299.51,"endTime":2302.39,"body":"we can see from the types of"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2299.51,"endTime":2302.39,"body":"stones that they're using and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2302.42,"endTime":2306.77,"body":"the metal, mostly gold, and the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2302.42,"endTime":2306.77,"body":"stones are banded agate, which"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2306.77,"endTime":2310.67,"body":"is a dark brownish and black"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2306.77,"endTime":2310.67,"body":"combined with white material;"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2310.97,"endTime":2314.96,"body":"carnelian, which is a reddish"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2310.97,"endTime":2314.96,"body":"orange colour, and lapis lazuli,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2314.96,"endTime":2317.12,"body":"which is sparkly, deep blue"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2314.96,"endTime":2317.12,"body":"colour."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2317.12,"endTime":2321.59,"body":"So you think of a red, orange,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2317.12,"endTime":2321.59,"body":"brown, black, white, blue, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2321.62,"endTime":2327.29,"body":"gold colour scheme. I think"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2321.62,"endTime":2327.29,"body":"these would have been recognised"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2327.29,"endTime":2331.7,"body":"as imperial colours. And just"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2327.29,"endTime":2331.7,"body":"like we recognise today, the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2331.7,"endTime":2335.87,"body":"colours of a national flag or a"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2331.7,"endTime":2335.87,"body":"soccer team, when you see that"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2335.87,"endTime":2339.95,"body":"colour combination flashing,"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2335.87,"endTime":2339.95,"body":"coming towards you, that is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2339.95,"endTime":2344.66,"body":"colour combination worn by an"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2339.95,"endTime":2344.66,"body":"Assyrian royal. So I just like"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2344.66,"endTime":2349.1,"body":"to emphasise that we need to try"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2344.66,"endTime":2349.1,"body":"to translate in our brains when"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2349.1,"endTime":2354.92,"body":"we're looking at the evidence"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2349.1,"endTime":2354.92,"body":"into this brilliant polychrome"},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2354.95,"endTime":2355.85,"body":"presence."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2356.93,"endTime":2358.25,"body":"Thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2356.93,"endTime":2358.25,"body":"indeed."},{"speaker":"Amy Gansell","startTime":2358.67,"endTime":2359.51,"body":"You're welcome."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2360.32,"endTime":2363.11,"body":"I’d also like to"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2360.32,"endTime":2363.11,"body":"thank our patrons: Enrique"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2363.11,"endTime":2369.17,"body":"Jiménez, Jana Matuszak, Nancy"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2363.11,"endTime":2369.17,"body":"Highcock, Jay C, Rune"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2369.2,"endTime":2373.76,"body":"Rattenborg, Woodthrush, Elisa"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2369.2,"endTime":2373.76,"body":"Rossberger, Mark Weeden, Jordi"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2373.76,"endTime":2379.91,"body":"Mon Companys, Thomas Bolin, Joan"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2373.76,"endTime":2379.91,"body":"Porter MacIver, John MacGinnis,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2380.42,"endTime":2387.11,"body":"Andrew George, Yelena Rakic,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2380.42,"endTime":2387.11,"body":"Zach Rubin, Sabina Franke, Shai"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2387.11,"endTime":2393.41,"body":"Gordin, Aaron Macks, Maarja"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2387.11,"endTime":2393.41,"body":"Seire, Jaafar Jotheri, Morgan"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2393.41,"endTime":2398.99,"body":"Hite, Chikako Watanabe, Mark"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2393.41,"endTime":2398.99,"body":"McElwaine, Jonathan Blanchard"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2398.99,"endTime":2405.23,"body":"Smith, Kliment Ohr, Christina"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2398.99,"endTime":2405.23,"body":"Tsouparopoulou, TT, Melanie"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2405.23,"endTime":2410.96,"body":"Gross, Claire Weir, Marc"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2405.23,"endTime":2410.96,"body":"Veldman, Bruno Biermann, Faimon"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2410.96,"endTime":2415.94,"body":"Roberts, Jason Moser, Pavla"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2410.96,"endTime":2415.94,"body":"Rosenstein, Müge"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2415.97,"endTime":2421.85,"body":"Durusu-Tanrıöver, Tate Paulette,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2415.97,"endTime":2421.85,"body":"Willis Monroe, Toby Wickenden,"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2422.27,"endTime":2427.91,"body":"Emmert Clevenstine, Barbara"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2422.27,"endTime":2427.91,"body":"Porter, Cheryl Morgan, Kevin Roy"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2427.91,"endTime":2434.99,"body":"Jackson, Susannah Paulus, Eric"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2427.91,"endTime":2434.99,"body":"Whitacre, Jakob Flygare, Jon"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2434.99,"endTime":2439.01,"body":"Ganuza, as well as those who"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2434.99,"endTime":2439.01,"body":"prefer to remain anonymous."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2440.06,"endTime":2442.64,"body":"I really appreciate your"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2440.06,"endTime":2442.64,"body":"support. It makes a big"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2442.64,"endTime":2447.17,"body":"difference. Every penny received"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2442.64,"endTime":2447.17,"body":"has contributed towards"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2447.17,"endTime":2450.62,"body":"translations. Thanks of course"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2447.17,"endTime":2450.62,"body":"to the lovely people who have"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2450.62,"endTime":2454.04,"body":"worked on the translations on a"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2450.62,"endTime":2454.04,"body":"voluntary basis or for well"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2454.04,"endTime":2458.27,"body":"below the market rate. For"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2454.04,"endTime":2458.27,"body":"Arabic, thanks in particular to"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2458.27,"endTime":2463.01,"body":"Zainab Mizyidawi, as well as"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2458.27,"endTime":2463.01,"body":"Lina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2463.85,"endTime":2469.85,"body":"For Turkish, thank you to Pinar"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2463.85,"endTime":2469.85,"body":"Durgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2469.85,"endTime":2473.33,"body":"still young, but I want to reach"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2469.85,"endTime":2473.33,"body":"a sustainable level, where"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2473.33,"endTime":2476.54,"body":"translators are given proper"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2473.33,"endTime":2476.54,"body":"compensation for their hard"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2476.54,"endTime":2476.99,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2478.25,"endTime":2481.55,"body":"And thank you for listening to"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2478.25,"endTime":2481.55,"body":"Thin End of the Wedge. If you"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2481.55,"endTime":2484.82,"body":"enjoy what we do, and you would"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2481.55,"endTime":2484.82,"body":"like to help make these podcasts"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2484.82,"endTime":2487.91,"body":"available in Middle Eastern"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2484.82,"endTime":2487.91,"body":"languages, please consider"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2487.91,"endTime":2491.75,"body":"joining our Patreon family. You"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2487.91,"endTime":2491.75,"body":"can find us at"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2491.84,"endTime":2498.14,"body":"patreon.com/wedgepod. You can"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2491.84,"endTime":2498.14,"body":"also support us in other ways:"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2498.77,"endTime":2502.61,"body":"simply subscribe to the podcast;"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2498.77,"endTime":2502.61,"body":"leave us a five star review on"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2502.61,"endTime":2505.91,"body":"Apple Music or your favourite"},{"speaker":"Jon Taylor","startTime":2502.61,"endTime":2505.91,"body":"podcatcher; recommend us to your"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2505.91,"endTime":2512.09,"body":"@wedge_pod. If you want the"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2512.09,"endTime":2515.66,"body":"latest podcast news, you can"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2512.09,"endTime":2515.66,"body":"sign up for our newsletter. You"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2515.66,"endTime":2519.44,"body":"can find all the links in the"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2515.66,"endTime":2519.44,"body":"show notes and on our website at"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2522.14,"endTime":2528.38,"body":"wedgepod.org. Thanks, and I hope"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2522.14,"endTime":2528.38,"body":"you’ll join us next time."}]}