{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":14.94,"endTime":18.09,"body":"Welcome to the Thin End of the"},{"startTime":14.94,"endTime":18.09,"body":"Wedge, the podcast where experts"},{"startTime":18.09,"endTime":21.12,"body":"from around the world share new"},{"startTime":18.09,"endTime":21.12,"body":"and interesting stories about"},{"startTime":21.12,"endTime":26.01,"body":"life in the ancient Middle East."},{"startTime":21.12,"endTime":26.01,"body":"My name is Jon. Each episode I"},{"startTime":26.01,"endTime":28.8,"body":"talk to friends and colleagues,"},{"startTime":26.01,"endTime":28.8,"body":"and get them to explain their"},{"startTime":28.8,"endTime":31.08,"body":"work in a way we can all"},{"startTime":28.8,"endTime":31.08,"body":"understand."},{"startTime":31.69,"endTime":36.82,"body":"The idea of excavation in Iraq"},{"startTime":31.69,"endTime":36.82,"body":"often evokes a sense of romance."},{"startTime":37.36,"endTime":41.38,"body":"We imagine the thrill of"},{"startTime":37.36,"endTime":41.38,"body":"discovery: what amazing objects"},{"startTime":41.38,"endTime":45.01,"body":"will appear from beneath the"},{"startTime":41.38,"endTime":45.01,"body":"sandactually, more likely,"},{"startTime":45.04,"endTime":50.86,"body":"mudfor the first time in"},{"startTime":45.04,"endTime":50.86,"body":"thousands of years? It is true"},{"startTime":50.86,"endTime":54.49,"body":"for foreign teams that visiting"},{"startTime":50.86,"endTime":54.49,"body":"Iraq and working at a site can"},{"startTime":54.49,"endTime":59.44,"body":"be incredibly exciting. And for"},{"startTime":54.49,"endTime":59.44,"body":"anyone there is a real buzz"},{"startTime":59.5,"endTime":63.1,"body":"about being the first person to"},{"startTime":59.5,"endTime":63.1,"body":"learn something new about the"},{"startTime":63.1,"endTime":68.08,"body":"subject you study. But"},{"startTime":63.1,"endTime":68.08,"body":"excavation has to be about much"},{"startTime":68.08,"endTime":68.92,"body":"more than that."},{"startTime":70.57,"endTime":74.8,"body":"In the last few years, countless"},{"startTime":70.57,"endTime":74.8,"body":"foreign archaeological teams"},{"startTime":74.83,"endTime":80.2,"body":"have returned to work in Iraq."},{"startTime":74.83,"endTime":80.2,"body":"Today we hear about work of one"},{"startTime":80.2,"endTime":85.93,"body":"of them, operating at the site"},{"startTime":80.2,"endTime":85.93,"body":"of Tell Surghul in the south. We"},{"startTime":85.93,"endTime":89.23,"body":"learn about what a modern"},{"startTime":85.93,"endTime":89.23,"body":"excavation involves, from"},{"startTime":89.23,"endTime":93.79,"body":"planning, through work on site,"},{"startTime":89.23,"endTime":93.79,"body":"to what happens next."},{"startTime":95.29,"endTime":99.49,"body":"This episode, our guest is an"},{"startTime":95.29,"endTime":99.49,"body":"archaeologist with many years"},{"startTime":99.52,"endTime":104.5,"body":"experience working on sites in"},{"startTime":99.52,"endTime":104.5,"body":"the Middle East. He cares deeply"},{"startTime":104.5,"endTime":108.61,"body":"about the Middle East, and"},{"startTime":104.5,"endTime":108.61,"body":"reflects here on what it means"},{"startTime":108.61,"endTime":111.16,"body":"to work ethically in Iraq today."},{"startTime":112.03,"endTime":115.93,"body":"So get yourself a cup of tea,"},{"startTime":112.03,"endTime":115.93,"body":"make yourself comfortable, and"},{"startTime":115.93,"endTime":117.58,"body":"lets meet todays guest."},{"startTime":126.3,"endTime":129.39,"body":"Hello, and welcome to Thin End"},{"startTime":126.3,"endTime":129.39,"body":"of the Wedge. Thank you for"},{"startTime":129.39,"endTime":130.11,"body":"joining us."},{"startTime":130.53,"endTime":133.35,"body":"Hello, Jon. Thank you to you for"},{"startTime":130.53,"endTime":133.35,"body":"the invitation."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":133.83,"endTime":137.85,"body":"who"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":133.83,"endTime":137.85,"body":"are you, and what do you do?"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":138.09,"endTime":143.22,"body":"Yes, sure. I'm Davide Nadali. I"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":138.09,"endTime":143.22,"body":"am an archaeologist and I work"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":143.37,"endTime":148.2,"body":"at the University of Rome La"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":143.37,"endTime":148.2,"body":"Sapienza. I worked actually in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":148.2,"endTime":154.02,"body":"Syria since 1998 until 2010,"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":148.2,"endTime":154.02,"body":"when then the political crisis"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":154.02,"endTime":159.6,"body":"of Syria started. And since"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":154.02,"endTime":159.6,"body":"2014, I started a new"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":159.6,"endTime":162.18,"body":"archaeological project with a"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":159.6,"endTime":162.18,"body":"colleague of mine, Andrea"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":162.18,"endTime":166.17,"body":"Polcaro, from University of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":162.18,"endTime":166.17,"body":"Perugia. And we are now working"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":166.17,"endTime":170.94,"body":"in southern Iraq in the site of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":166.17,"endTime":170.94,"body":"Tell Surghul in the province of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":170.94,"endTime":172.95,"body":"Dhi Qar of southern Iraq."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":173.69,"endTime":176.96,"body":"Now we're going to talk a bit"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":173.69,"endTime":176.96,"body":"about your work at that site."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":177.5,"endTime":180.83,"body":"Could we start with a brief"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":177.5,"endTime":180.83,"body":"introduction to the site and its"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":180.83,"endTime":181.79,"body":"history, please?"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":182.23,"endTime":187.18,"body":"Yeah. So the site of Tell"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":182.23,"endTime":187.18,"body":"Surghul is a known site. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":187.18,"endTime":192.07,"body":"we know the ancient name of the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":187.18,"endTime":192.07,"body":"site. The actual name is the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":192.07,"endTime":196.12,"body":"Sumerian site of Nigin. And"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":192.07,"endTime":196.12,"body":"Nigin was part of the ancient"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":196.12,"endTime":200.47,"body":"state of Lagash; it was quite a"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":196.12,"endTime":200.47,"body":"powerful state in the third"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":200.47,"endTime":205.21,"body":"millennium BC. So the site of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":200.47,"endTime":205.21,"body":"Nigin and the city of Nigin was"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":205.21,"endTime":209.86,"body":"part of this state. And it was"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":205.21,"endTime":209.86,"body":"particularly important during"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":209.89,"endTime":214.48,"body":"let's say, mid-third millennium"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":209.89,"endTime":214.48,"body":"BC and the end of the third"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":214.48,"endTime":218.41,"body":"millennium BC, so during the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":214.48,"endTime":218.41,"body":"Mesopotamian period of the Early"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":218.41,"endTime":222.97,"body":"Dynastic Period, and then during"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":218.41,"endTime":222.97,"body":"the Gudea kingdom, and the final"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":223.0,"endTime":227.59,"body":"years of the third millennium BC"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":223.0,"endTime":227.59,"body":"during the kingdom of the Third"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":227.62,"endTime":231.76,"body":"Dynasty of Ur. So the site of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":227.62,"endTime":231.76,"body":"Tell Surghul is quite"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":231.79,"endTime":236.98,"body":"impressive, because it's 70"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":231.79,"endTime":236.98,"body":"hectares large. It is"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":237.1,"endTime":240.25,"body":"characterised by two mounds."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":237.1,"endTime":240.25,"body":"That is quite surprising in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":240.25,"endTime":243.79,"body":"southern Mesopotamia, because"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":240.25,"endTime":243.79,"body":"usually, sites are quite flat."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":244.3,"endTime":249.01,"body":"While we have these two mounds"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":244.3,"endTime":249.01,"body":"that were already excavated at"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":249.04,"endTime":254.2,"body":"the end of the 19th century in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":249.04,"endTime":254.2,"body":"1887, by the German"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":254.2,"endTime":258.52,"body":"archaeologist, Robert Koldewey"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":254.2,"endTime":258.52,"body":"who, after that moved to"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":258.55,"endTime":262.36,"body":"Babylon, and he discovered the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":258.55,"endTime":262.36,"body":"ruins of the ancient city of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":262.36,"endTime":267.19,"body":"Babylon. So we have still"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":262.36,"endTime":267.19,"body":"evidence of his excavation in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":267.19,"endTime":273.55,"body":"the site. He made mostly small"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":267.19,"endTime":273.55,"body":"soundings on the top of the two"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":273.55,"endTime":279.16,"body":"mounds and a few scattered other"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":273.55,"endTime":279.16,"body":"soundings in other parts of the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":279.16,"endTime":279.52,"body":"site."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":280.24,"endTime":285.97,"body":"So mostly the site is intact."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":280.24,"endTime":285.97,"body":"And we started these excavations"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":286.0,"endTime":290.53,"body":"in 2014, concentrating in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":286.0,"endTime":290.53,"body":"understanding that, let's say"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":290.53,"endTime":294.97,"body":"the morphology and the shape of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":290.53,"endTime":294.97,"body":"the site. Trying to figure out"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":295.33,"endTime":299.77,"body":"the chronology, of course, the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":295.33,"endTime":299.77,"body":"periods of occupation, and when"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":299.83,"endTime":304.87,"body":"and where in fact the site was"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":299.83,"endTime":304.87,"body":"occupied. Particularly also"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":304.87,"endTime":308.53,"body":"looking not only at the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":304.87,"endTime":308.53,"body":"archaeological aspects, but also"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":308.53,"endTime":313.12,"body":"the environmental and"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":308.53,"endTime":313.12,"body":"geomorphological aspects. So for"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":313.12,"endTime":317.02,"body":"example, we now know that the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":313.12,"endTime":317.02,"body":"area was in fact covered by"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":317.02,"endTime":324.52,"body":"water. The modern sea coast of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":317.02,"endTime":324.52,"body":"the Arabian Persian Gulf was, of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":324.52,"endTime":328.84,"body":"course, not in the same position"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":324.52,"endTime":328.84,"body":"where we see it today. But it"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":328.84,"endTime":334.33,"body":"was much more northern. And in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":328.84,"endTime":334.33,"body":"fact, the site we can say it was"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":335.11,"endTime":340.99,"body":"within a marsh environment,."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":335.11,"endTime":340.99,"body":"These marches that are also"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":341.05,"endTime":344.77,"body":"quite present today in Iraq,"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":341.05,"endTime":344.77,"body":"particularly in the southern"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":344.77,"endTime":349.75,"body":"region in the Anbar region or"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":344.77,"endTime":349.75,"body":"towards the city of Basra."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":350.32,"endTime":355.69,"body":"But in fact, this era was"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":350.32,"endTime":355.69,"body":"already present, at least in the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":355.69,"endTime":359.59,"body":"Holocene period. So during the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":355.69,"endTime":359.59,"body":"historical occupation of the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":359.59,"endTime":364.33,"body":"Ubaid. And in fact, one of the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":359.59,"endTime":364.33,"body":"surprising aspects we found in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":364.33,"endTime":368.65,"body":"our excavation was that we found"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":364.33,"endTime":368.65,"body":"in fact, an Ubaid occupation in"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":368.65,"endTime":374.38,"body":"the minor mound of the site."},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":368.65,"endTime":374.38,"body":"That gives us immediately the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":374.38,"endTime":378.34,"body":"perception and the possibility"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":374.38,"endTime":378.34,"body":"to understand that, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":378.37,"endTime":383.53,"body":"that area was already occupied"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":378.37,"endTime":383.53,"body":"since the most ancient period of"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":383.53,"endTime":388.72,"body":"the history of ancient"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":383.53,"endTime":388.72,"body":"Mesopotamia. So the idea was to"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":388.75,"endTime":394.21,"body":"combine archaeological aspects,"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":388.75,"endTime":394.21,"body":"but also the understanding and"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":394.45,"endTime":399.28,"body":"study and analysis of the"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":394.45,"endTime":399.28,"body":"environment, the geomorphology,"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":399.31,"endTime":403.21,"body":"and particularly the environment"},{"speaker":"Could you tell us please","startTime":399.31,"endTime":403.21,"body":"connected to the presence of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":403.21,"endTime":409.78,"body":"water from the sea,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":403.21,"endTime":409.78,"body":"marshes, and then the works that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":409.78,"endTime":414.19,"body":"are known from the Sumerian"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":409.78,"endTime":414.19,"body":"inscription of the rulers of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":414.19,"endTime":419.14,"body":"dynasties of Lagash concerning"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":414.19,"endTime":419.14,"body":"the works about the digging of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":419.14,"endTime":423.07,"body":"canals that were particularly"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":419.14,"endTime":423.07,"body":"important for not only, let's"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":423.07,"endTime":427.93,"body":"say, the ideology of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":423.07,"endTime":427.93,"body":"Sumerian kingship, but also for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":427.93,"endTime":431.32,"body":"the organisation of the work,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":427.93,"endTime":431.32,"body":"and particularly for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":431.32,"endTime":432.16,"body":"agriculture."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":433.36,"endTime":439.0,"body":"So southern Iraq is covered in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":433.36,"endTime":439.0,"body":"ancient sites. How did you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":439.0,"endTime":441.52,"body":"choose this one in particular to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":439.0,"endTime":441.52,"body":"work at?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":442.08,"endTime":447.54,"body":"In fact, I can say it was not by"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":442.08,"endTime":447.54,"body":"chance, of course, because when"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":447.54,"endTime":454.38,"body":"we decided to move, me and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":447.54,"endTime":454.38,"body":"Andrea, to southern Iraq, we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":454.38,"endTime":458.52,"body":"had, of course, an historical"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":454.38,"endTime":458.52,"body":"question in mind. So our idea"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":458.52,"endTime":462.48,"body":"was to focus specifically on the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":458.52,"endTime":462.48,"body":"third millennium BC. So let's"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":462.48,"endTime":468.21,"body":"say on the Early Dynastic"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":462.48,"endTime":468.21,"body":"Period. We were both coming from"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":468.48,"endTime":472.89,"body":"excavations in Syria. So we,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":468.48,"endTime":472.89,"body":"let's say, grew up in Ebla, Tell"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":472.92,"endTime":478.92,"body":"Mardikh. And so we had no"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":472.92,"endTime":478.92,"body":"specific knowledge on the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":479.13,"endTime":483.03,"body":"archaeological landscape and the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":479.13,"endTime":483.03,"body":"archaeological sites of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":483.03,"endTime":487.53,"body":"Mesopotamia, unless, of course,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":483.03,"endTime":487.53,"body":"the knowledge we had from our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":487.53,"endTime":488.19,"body":"studies."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":488.94,"endTime":494.31,"body":"So the first thing that we did"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":488.94,"endTime":494.31,"body":"was to be in touch with Iraqi"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":494.31,"endTime":498.3,"body":"colleagues, and I will say with"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":494.31,"endTime":498.3,"body":"an Iraqi friend, Abdulamir"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":498.3,"endTime":502.8,"body":"Hamdani, who made extensive"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":498.3,"endTime":502.8,"body":"research in southern Iraq,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":502.8,"endTime":507.66,"body":"specifically in the region of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":502.8,"endTime":507.66,"body":"the Dhi Qar. And so we asked him"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":507.66,"endTime":513.09,"body":"a suggestion. So we explained"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":507.66,"endTime":513.09,"body":"him what we had in mind, which"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":513.09,"endTime":517.38,"body":"were our main goals, historical"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":513.09,"endTime":517.38,"body":"questions, and he suggested us"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":517.41,"endTime":521.58,"body":"to ask to the State Board of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":517.41,"endTime":521.58,"body":"Antiquities and Heritage of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":521.58,"endTime":526.08,"body":"Republic of Iraq, to give us"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":521.58,"endTime":526.08,"body":"permission for archaeological"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":526.08,"endTime":530.61,"body":"excavation and studies at the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":526.08,"endTime":530.61,"body":"site of Tell Surghul, so the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":530.61,"endTime":536.37,"body":"ancient city of Nigin. So in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":530.61,"endTime":536.37,"body":"fact, our choice was suggested"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":536.37,"endTime":540.63,"body":"by Abdulamir Hamdani, so we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":536.37,"endTime":540.63,"body":"followed his suggestion, and we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":540.63,"endTime":544.8,"body":"can say today that we are very"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":540.63,"endTime":544.8,"body":"happy to have followed his"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":544.8,"endTime":549.87,"body":"suggestion. And so we started"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":544.8,"endTime":549.87,"body":"with this in mind, and we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":549.87,"endTime":555.21,"body":"arrived thanks to him to start"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":549.87,"endTime":555.21,"body":"the archaeological investigation"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":555.21,"endTime":555.99,"body":"of the site."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":557.04,"endTime":559.62,"body":"You've mentioned some of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":557.04,"endTime":559.62,"body":"topics you were interested in."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":560.4,"endTime":563.91,"body":"What specifically did you want"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":560.4,"endTime":563.91,"body":"to achieve in this project?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":564.38,"endTime":568.91,"body":"Yeah, in particular, I mean, the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":564.38,"endTime":568.91,"body":"idea was, and still is, because,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":569.12,"endTime":573.08,"body":"as you know, archaeological"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":569.12,"endTime":573.08,"body":"investigations are longer and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":573.44,"endTime":578.87,"body":"sometimes, I will say most of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":573.44,"endTime":578.87,"body":"times, it takes time to achieve"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":579.29,"endTime":584.48,"body":"answers to our historical"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":579.29,"endTime":584.48,"body":"questions. But initially, so the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":584.48,"endTime":588.89,"body":"idea was to investigate a site,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":584.48,"endTime":588.89,"body":"a settlement of the third"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":588.89,"endTime":594.44,"body":"millennium BC. And not only of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":588.89,"endTime":594.44,"body":"course, to recover temples or"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":594.44,"endTime":598.61,"body":"palaces, as it is usually in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":594.44,"endTime":598.61,"body":"legacy of Mesopotamian"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":598.61,"endTime":602.81,"body":"archaeology, but to understand"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":598.61,"endTime":602.81,"body":"in fact, the morphology of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":602.81,"endTime":609.47,"body":"city. So the urban planning. And"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":602.81,"endTime":609.47,"body":"this was quite interesting to do"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":609.5,"endTime":615.44,"body":"in Nigin, because thanks also to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":609.5,"endTime":615.44,"body":"the combination, as I said, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":615.44,"endTime":619.1,"body":"the geomorphological,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":615.44,"endTime":619.1,"body":"hydro-geological studies, we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":619.1,"endTime":623.06,"body":"could achieve, in fact, to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":619.1,"endTime":623.06,"body":"understand how the city, let's"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":623.06,"endTime":629.21,"body":"say, grew up during time, and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":623.06,"endTime":629.21,"body":"how it was organised. So it was"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":629.24,"endTime":634.25,"body":"surely occupied, since the Ubaid"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":629.24,"endTime":634.25,"body":"period, so since the mid-fifth"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":634.28,"endTime":639.23,"body":"millennium BC. But it was, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":634.28,"endTime":639.23,"body":"course, not occupied entirely on"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":639.23,"endTime":642.08,"body":"the entire surface of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":639.23,"endTime":642.08,"body":"settlement."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":642.5,"endTime":648.23,"body":"So the idea was to understand"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":642.5,"endTime":648.23,"body":"when the city was occupied, and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":648.23,"endTime":654.02,"body":"how it was occupied during this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":648.23,"endTime":654.02,"body":"long period. Specifically,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":654.02,"endTime":657.35,"body":"understanding the third"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":654.02,"endTime":657.35,"body":"millennium BC, so the starting"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":657.35,"endTime":662.3,"body":"of the beginning of the second"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":657.35,"endTime":662.3,"body":"urban revolution, so the system"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":662.3,"endTime":667.43,"body":"of urbanisation in a region that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":662.3,"endTime":667.43,"body":"was in fact, poorly"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":667.46,"endTime":672.86,"body":"investigated, except, of course,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":667.46,"endTime":672.86,"body":"the magnificent work made by the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":672.86,"endTime":677.93,"body":"French expedition in Girsu and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":672.86,"endTime":677.93,"body":"the short excavations made by"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":677.93,"endTime":682.64,"body":"the Americans at Lagash, that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":677.93,"endTime":682.64,"body":"are the other two cities of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":682.64,"endTime":684.17,"body":"ancient state of Lagash."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":685.19,"endTime":689.21,"body":"So luckily enough, when we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":685.19,"endTime":689.21,"body":"started our work in Tell"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":689.21,"endTime":694.67,"body":"Surghul, I will say in the same"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":689.21,"endTime":694.67,"body":"year, the British Museum started"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":694.67,"endTime":699.02,"body":"the project at the site of Girsu"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":694.67,"endTime":699.02,"body":"and immediately after the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":699.05,"endTime":703.64,"body":"University of Philadelphia"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":699.05,"endTime":703.64,"body":"started a project at Lagash. So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":703.64,"endTime":708.47,"body":"today, we have the three main"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":703.64,"endTime":708.47,"body":"cities of the state of Lagash,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":708.5,"endTime":712.67,"body":"that are currently under"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":708.5,"endTime":712.67,"body":"excavation. So the goal is not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":712.67,"endTime":716.72,"body":"only to understand the history,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":712.67,"endTime":716.72,"body":"and the, let's say,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":716.78,"endTime":722.54,"body":"comprehension of each single"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":716.78,"endTime":722.54,"body":"site, but to understand in a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":722.54,"endTime":726.47,"body":"more comprehensive way, the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":722.54,"endTime":726.47,"body":"history of the entire state of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":726.47,"endTime":730.61,"body":"Lagash. Because we know from the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":726.47,"endTime":730.61,"body":"cuneiform inscriptions, that the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":730.61,"endTime":735.68,"body":"three cities were, of course,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":730.61,"endTime":735.68,"body":"linked one to another, not only"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":735.68,"endTime":739.07,"body":"from the historical and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":735.68,"endTime":739.07,"body":"political and cultural point of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":739.07,"endTime":743.09,"body":"view, but they were specifically"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":739.07,"endTime":743.09,"body":"and I would say, physically,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":743.09,"endTime":748.04,"body":"linked by the landscape and the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":743.09,"endTime":748.04,"body":"presence of a canal. So one of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":748.04,"endTime":755.12,"body":"them is the one built or rebuilt"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":748.04,"endTime":755.12,"body":"indeed by Gudea, that was the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":755.12,"endTime":760.25,"body":"canal going to Nigin. So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":755.12,"endTime":760.25,"body":"starting from Girsu, crossing"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":760.43,"endTime":765.98,"body":"the area of Lagash, al-Hiba, and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":760.43,"endTime":765.98,"body":"reaching, in fact, the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":765.98,"endTime":770.18,"body":"southernmost site of the state"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":765.98,"endTime":770.18,"body":"that was in fact Nigin."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":771.26,"endTime":776.69,"body":"So our goal was, and still is,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":771.26,"endTime":776.69,"body":"as I said, the understanding of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":777.44,"endTime":781.37,"body":"the sequence of occupation of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":777.44,"endTime":781.37,"body":"the site. Specifically, I will"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":781.37,"endTime":787.22,"body":"say in the third millennium BC,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":781.37,"endTime":787.22,"body":"but as I said, we surprisingly"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":787.25,"endTime":791.81,"body":"found an occupation dating back"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":787.25,"endTime":791.81,"body":"to Ubaid period. And this is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":791.9,"endTime":797.69,"body":"even more important for the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":791.9,"endTime":797.69,"body":"analysis of the complexity of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":797.72,"endTime":802.94,"body":"the occupation of sites in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":797.72,"endTime":802.94,"body":"southern Mesopotamia since such"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":803.15,"endTime":804.38,"body":"ancient periods."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":805.64,"endTime":808.79,"body":"Are you able to share any of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":805.64,"endTime":808.79,"body":"results of your work so far?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":809.09,"endTime":811.34,"body":"What have you learned during the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":809.09,"endTime":811.34,"body":"last few years?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":811.9,"endTime":818.47,"body":"Yeah. So for example, as I said"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":811.9,"endTime":818.47,"body":"that, we now know that the part"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":818.47,"endTime":824.41,"body":"of the site was surely covered"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":818.47,"endTime":824.41,"body":"by water. So we can even say"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":824.41,"endTime":828.79,"body":"that Tell Surghul, at least in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":824.41,"endTime":828.79,"body":"Ubaid period, was a kind of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":828.79,"endTime":834.46,"body":"island, floating in the water."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":828.79,"endTime":834.46,"body":"Was it a turtleback settlement,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":834.52,"endTime":838.54,"body":"as it has been suggested?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":834.52,"endTime":838.54,"body":"Probably. Or it was probably"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":838.54,"endTime":845.56,"body":"made of different spots inside"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":838.54,"endTime":845.56,"body":"this waterscape of ancient"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":845.68,"endTime":849.79,"body":"southern Mesopotamia. And during"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":845.68,"endTime":849.79,"body":"the third millennium BC, for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":849.79,"endTime":854.32,"body":"example, the situation changed."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":849.79,"endTime":854.32,"body":"So we have the works made by the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":854.32,"endTime":859.09,"body":"rulers of the first dynasty of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":854.32,"endTime":859.09,"body":"Lagash. And so you know, working"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":859.12,"endTime":863.53,"body":"in digging canals and so, the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":859.12,"endTime":863.53,"body":"situation of the landscape and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":863.53,"endTime":868.09,"body":"also of course, of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":863.53,"endTime":868.09,"body":"environment changed. And I can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":868.27,"endTime":872.98,"body":"anticipate you that in fact in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":868.27,"endTime":872.98,"body":"this very last season that we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":873.22,"endTime":880.18,"body":"have made in October, November"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":873.22,"endTime":880.18,"body":"2021, we in fact found evidence"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":880.21,"endTime":883.54,"body":"of an occupation of the very"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":880.21,"endTime":883.54,"body":"beginning of the third"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":883.54,"endTime":889.18,"body":"millennium BC in the lower city,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":883.54,"endTime":889.18,"body":"next, probably, to a canal that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":889.18,"endTime":893.83,"body":"was crossing, in fact, the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":889.18,"endTime":893.83,"body":"settlement. So we have this now"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":893.86,"endTime":898.42,"body":"evidence of a widespread and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":893.86,"endTime":898.42,"body":"large occupation of the site in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":898.42,"endTime":902.47,"body":"the third millennium BC,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":898.42,"endTime":902.47,"body":"starting indeed, from the very"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":902.47,"endTime":904.84,"body":"beginning of the third"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":902.47,"endTime":904.84,"body":"millennium."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":905.83,"endTime":910.81,"body":"The focus on the landscape and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":905.83,"endTime":910.81,"body":"on the environment is not only,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":910.99,"endTime":915.01,"body":"let's say, something that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":910.99,"endTime":915.01,"body":"belongs to contemporary"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":915.07,"endTime":919.36,"body":"archaeology, so archaeology"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":915.07,"endTime":919.36,"body":"today, I think, has to do and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":919.36,"endTime":923.56,"body":"has to deal not only with the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":919.36,"endTime":923.56,"body":"material culture, but let's say"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":923.56,"endTime":928.33,"body":"also on the material landscape"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":923.56,"endTime":928.33,"body":"and environment. And this is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":928.33,"endTime":932.56,"body":"quite important if we think that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":928.33,"endTime":932.56,"body":"the main goddess of the ancient"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":932.56,"endTime":937.96,"body":"city of Nigin, was the goddess"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":932.56,"endTime":937.96,"body":"Nanshe. Nanshe was a Sumerian"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":937.96,"endTime":941.98,"body":"goddess, daughter of one of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":937.96,"endTime":941.98,"body":"most important gods of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":941.98,"endTime":947.62,"body":"Sumerian pantheon; that was"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":941.98,"endTime":947.62,"body":"Enki. And Nanshe, in fact, was a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":947.62,"endTime":954.4,"body":"deity linked to this waterscape"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":947.62,"endTime":954.4,"body":"and water environment, because"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":954.7,"endTime":959.56,"body":"she was, in fact in charge of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":954.7,"endTime":959.56,"body":"protecting the fish and birds."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":959.86,"endTime":964.93,"body":"So she was, I think it is quite"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":959.86,"endTime":964.93,"body":"interesting today to speak that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":965.11,"endTime":970.75,"body":"there was a kind of climate"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":965.11,"endTime":970.75,"body":"interest by the Sumerians in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":970.78,"endTime":975.58,"body":"using this goddess that was, in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":970.78,"endTime":975.58,"body":"fact, charged with the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":975.58,"endTime":982.03,"body":"protection of these animals"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":975.58,"endTime":982.03,"body":"leaving in this waterscape. So I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":982.03,"endTime":987.19,"body":"think that religion then and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":982.03,"endTime":987.19,"body":"cult can be also understood or"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":987.19,"endTime":991.27,"body":"better understood, if we take"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":987.19,"endTime":991.27,"body":"into consideration not only what"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":991.27,"endTime":994.51,"body":"we know from texts and what we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":991.27,"endTime":994.51,"body":"know, for example, from the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":994.51,"endTime":998.86,"body":"images of this goddess, but also"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":994.51,"endTime":998.86,"body":"if we take into account in fact"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":998.86,"endTime":1004.41,"body":"that this was the specific"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":998.86,"endTime":1004.41,"body":"environment and landscape where"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1004.89,"endTime":1008.58,"body":"the Sumerian city was, in fact,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1004.89,"endTime":1008.58,"body":"created."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1009.78,"endTime":1012.66,"body":"I'd like now to turn to some of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1009.78,"endTime":1012.66,"body":"the practicalities of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1012.66,"endTime":1017.64,"body":"excavation. Could you tell us"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1012.66,"endTime":1017.64,"body":"how a modern excavation works?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1017.7,"endTime":1020.88,"body":"What does the team look like?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1017.7,"endTime":1020.88,"body":"And what does each of these"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1020.88,"endTime":1021.9,"body":"people do?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1021.0,"endTime":1025.777,"body":"I think that today, an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1021.0,"endTime":1025.777,"body":"archaeological team is really a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1025.865,"endTime":1031.35,"body":"complex system to organise and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1025.865,"endTime":1031.35,"body":"to also roll out. So of course,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1031.438,"endTime":1036.746,"body":"we have archaeologists. So we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1031.438,"endTime":1036.746,"body":"have PhD students, and already"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1036.835,"endTime":1042.231,"body":"doctoral students with us, that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1036.835,"endTime":1042.231,"body":"cover specific aspects of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1036.9,"endTime":1046.908,"body":"So we can in fact, say that an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1036.9,"endTime":1046.908,"body":"archaeological team now, an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1042.32,"endTime":1047.185,"body":"archaeology of ancient"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1042.32,"endTime":1047.185,"body":"Mesopotamia. So from Pottery, to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1047.08,"endTime":1057.607,"body":"archological expedition, is made"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1047.08,"endTime":1057.607,"body":"of different specific people"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1047.274,"endTime":1052.316,"body":"architecture, remote sensing,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1047.274,"endTime":1052.316,"body":"and geomorphology. But as I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1052.405,"endTime":1057.624,"body":"said, since our goal, and our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1052.405,"endTime":1057.624,"body":"project encompasses different"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1057.713,"endTime":1061.605,"body":"aspects of not only"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1057.713,"endTime":1061.605,"body":"archeological, but other"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1057.779,"endTime":1068.823,"body":"that have specific targets. But"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1057.779,"endTime":1068.823,"body":"the idea is that we have to work"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1061.694,"endTime":1066.736,"body":"aspects. So we are working in a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1061.694,"endTime":1066.736,"body":"team, where there are, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1066.825,"endTime":1072.309,"body":"course, geologists working with"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1066.825,"endTime":1072.309,"body":"us, architects, and of course,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1068.995,"endTime":1079.522,"body":"complimentary. So it's not that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1068.995,"endTime":1079.522,"body":"we are alone. And we are just"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1072.398,"endTime":1077.883,"body":"an epigraphist, who is looking"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1072.398,"endTime":1077.883,"body":"at the cuneiform documents that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1077.971,"endTime":1083.014,"body":"we so far found at the site. And"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1077.971,"endTime":1083.014,"body":"he's also collecting the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1079.694,"endTime":1089.703,"body":"working alone with pottery,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1079.694,"endTime":1089.703,"body":"alone with architecture, alone"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1083.102,"endTime":1087.437,"body":"information from the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1083.102,"endTime":1087.437,"body":"inscriptions and the already"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1087.525,"endTime":1093.63,"body":"known cuneiform sources of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1087.525,"endTime":1093.63,"body":"rulers of the First Dynasty of Lagash."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1089.875,"endTime":1099.193,"body":"with the cuneiform sources, or"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1089.875,"endTime":1099.193,"body":"alone in looking at the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1099.366,"endTime":1109.202,"body":"geomorphology. But all these"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1099.366,"endTime":1109.202,"body":"aspects must be connected to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1109.374,"endTime":1120.073,"body":"each other. So I think that one"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1109.374,"endTime":1120.073,"body":"of the main characteristics, I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1120.245,"endTime":1129.736,"body":"would say the need, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1120.245,"endTime":1129.736,"body":"archaeology today is a dialogue."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1129.909,"endTime":1139.572,"body":"So a dialogue within each team"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1129.909,"endTime":1139.572,"body":"and dialogue within teams"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1139.745,"endTime":1146.82,"body":"working, for example, in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1139.745,"endTime":1146.82,"body":"same region."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1146.82,"endTime":1151.47,"body":"We are, I think, lucky today"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1146.82,"endTime":1151.47,"body":"that we can work in an area"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1151.5,"endTime":1155.52,"body":"where the British Museum is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1151.5,"endTime":1155.52,"body":"working in Girsu and the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1155.52,"endTime":1159.93,"body":"University of Philadelphia is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1155.52,"endTime":1159.93,"body":"working in Lagash. So we can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1159.93,"endTime":1165.03,"body":"have also a crossing dialogue."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1159.93,"endTime":1165.03,"body":"So understanding not only the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1165.03,"endTime":1170.22,"body":"history of each site, but the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1165.03,"endTime":1170.22,"body":"history of a region in fact. So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1170.22,"endTime":1173.82,"body":"I think that to answer your"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1170.22,"endTime":1173.82,"body":"question, but also I would say"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1173.82,"endTime":1179.37,"body":"to answer the question of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1173.82,"endTime":1179.37,"body":"history and what we want to know"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1179.37,"endTime":1185.31,"body":"from the past, we need to be"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1179.37,"endTime":1185.31,"body":"open minded and to have people"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1185.37,"endTime":1190.17,"body":"that are interested in not only"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1185.37,"endTime":1190.17,"body":"in studying their own single"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1190.35,"endTime":1195.72,"body":"stuff, but in studying to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1190.35,"endTime":1195.72,"body":"collect and connect the single"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1195.72,"endTime":1202.38,"body":"information as to draw up and to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1195.72,"endTime":1202.38,"body":"picture in fact, an image of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1202.56,"endTime":1205.53,"body":"history and historicity of that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1202.56,"endTime":1205.53,"body":"area."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1207.18,"endTime":1209.85,"body":"We're familiar with"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1207.18,"endTime":1209.85,"body":"archaeological excavations in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1209.85,"endTime":1214.11,"body":"the Middle East, largely through"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1209.85,"endTime":1214.11,"body":"the media: various movies, or"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1214.14,"endTime":1218.49,"body":"Agatha Christie plays, for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1214.14,"endTime":1218.49,"body":"example. That's not quite what"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1218.49,"endTime":1222.45,"body":"it's like on an excavation"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1218.49,"endTime":1222.45,"body":"today, is it? Could you describe"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1222.45,"endTime":1226.89,"body":"what a typical day on a modern"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1222.45,"endTime":1226.89,"body":"excavation looks like, please?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1227.31,"endTime":1232.86,"body":"Yeah, sure. I think in fact that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1227.31,"endTime":1232.86,"body":"for certain aspects, we are not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1232.89,"endTime":1237.45,"body":"so far from what was the picture"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1232.89,"endTime":1237.45,"body":"made from Agatha Christie's"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1237.48,"endTime":1240.84,"body":"novels or from the movies. So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1237.48,"endTime":1240.84,"body":"let's say Indiana Jones or"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1240.84,"endTime":1246.48,"body":"whatever. Also, let's say now we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1240.84,"endTime":1246.48,"body":"are less adventure, but we are"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1246.48,"endTime":1250.74,"body":"looking for and looking at"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1246.48,"endTime":1250.74,"body":"something more concrete, let's"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1250.74,"endTime":1257.34,"body":"say. But, in fact, working in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1250.74,"endTime":1257.34,"body":"the Near East, and working today"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1257.37,"endTime":1262.29,"body":"in Iraq, you have also to deal"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1257.37,"endTime":1262.29,"body":"with the, for example, weather"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1262.29,"endTime":1268.44,"body":"conditions. So for example, you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1262.29,"endTime":1268.44,"body":"have to choose the perfect month"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1268.56,"endTime":1274.11,"body":"when to go to Iraq and start"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1268.56,"endTime":1274.11,"body":"your excavation, and usually are"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1274.17,"endTime":1280.38,"body":"the period of heat, so it is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1274.17,"endTime":1280.38,"body":"very hot to work there. And so"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1280.38,"endTime":1285.33,"body":"for example, our day starts"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1280.38,"endTime":1285.33,"body":"every day, except Friday--that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1285.33,"endTime":1290.49,"body":"is a holiday--at half past four"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1285.33,"endTime":1290.49,"body":"in the morning. So we usually"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1290.49,"endTime":1294.66,"body":"leave from the expedition house"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1290.49,"endTime":1294.66,"body":"at five o'clock in the morning."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1294.66,"endTime":1300.81,"body":"So arriving to the site, after"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1294.66,"endTime":1300.81,"body":"half an hour by car, and then we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1300.81,"endTime":1303.84,"body":"work there until twelve, half"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1300.81,"endTime":1303.84,"body":"past twelve."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1304.57,"endTime":1309.4,"body":"Then of course, the day is not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1304.57,"endTime":1309.4,"body":"finished, so is finished the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1309.4,"endTime":1313.81,"body":"work in the field. But then, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1309.4,"endTime":1313.81,"body":"course, at the expedition house,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1313.84,"endTime":1317.53,"body":"you have to deal and to study"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1313.84,"endTime":1317.53,"body":"with all the materials that you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1317.53,"endTime":1323.41,"body":"have excavated day by day. So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1317.53,"endTime":1323.41,"body":"preparing and filling our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1323.41,"endTime":1330.73,"body":"journals, cards, drawing some"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1323.41,"endTime":1330.73,"body":"pictures, preparing the matrix"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1330.73,"endTime":1335.11,"body":"for the excavation, and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1330.73,"endTime":1335.11,"body":"whatever. So every day you have"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1335.14,"endTime":1340.03,"body":"these, let's say archaeological"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1335.14,"endTime":1340.03,"body":"work divided into two parts."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1340.69,"endTime":1344.11,"body":"Let's say an experimental part"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1340.69,"endTime":1344.11,"body":"in the field, where you are"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1344.11,"endTime":1348.43,"body":"working, in fact, with the local"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1344.11,"endTime":1348.43,"body":"workers and our Iraqi colleagues"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1348.82,"endTime":1352.24,"body":"from the State Board of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1348.82,"endTime":1352.24,"body":"Antiquities. And then in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1352.24,"endTime":1357.22,"body":"afternoon, we are working at"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1352.24,"endTime":1357.22,"body":"home. But it is not let's say a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1357.22,"endTime":1362.44,"body":"less important work. It is again"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1357.22,"endTime":1362.44,"body":"an important part of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1362.44,"endTime":1367.66,"body":"excavation, because you need to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1362.44,"endTime":1367.66,"body":"make all data clear and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1367.69,"endTime":1368.44,"body":"available."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1369.17,"endTime":1374.6,"body":"The other thing that I usually"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1369.17,"endTime":1374.6,"body":"say to my students, as I said"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1374.6,"endTime":1378.14,"body":"that I teach in Rome, so many of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1374.6,"endTime":1378.14,"body":"my students also have"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1378.2,"endTime":1382.49,"body":"archaeological experience"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1378.2,"endTime":1382.49,"body":"initially, specifically in Rome."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1382.94,"endTime":1387.14,"body":"And it is quite easy to work in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1382.94,"endTime":1387.14,"body":"Rome, I would say, because the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1387.14,"endTime":1392.87,"body":"site is here. So you can have"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1387.14,"endTime":1392.87,"body":"access to the site every day. So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1392.9,"endTime":1397.55,"body":"you can for example, go today;"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1392.9,"endTime":1397.55,"body":"tomorrow, you don't go, but"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1397.55,"endTime":1401.42,"body":"after tomorrow, you go back and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1397.55,"endTime":1401.42,"body":"you can make new drawings, new"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1401.42,"endTime":1406.88,"body":"pictures. You have the materials"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1401.42,"endTime":1406.88,"body":"at your disposal nearly every"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1406.88,"endTime":1411.59,"body":"day. But working outside and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1406.88,"endTime":1411.59,"body":"working in a region like the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1411.59,"endTime":1415.85,"body":"Near East, as for example, the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1411.59,"endTime":1415.85,"body":"Syrian crisis, I think is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1415.85,"endTime":1421.46,"body":"telling us quite clearly, you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1415.85,"endTime":1421.46,"body":"have to be very careful in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1421.46,"endTime":1425.72,"body":"documenting every aspect."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1421.46,"endTime":1425.72,"body":"Because you don't know in fact"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1425.75,"endTime":1431.3,"body":"if the day after you can come"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1425.75,"endTime":1431.3,"body":"back. Now we know also for the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1431.39,"endTime":1437.24,"body":"Covid situation. So you need to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1431.39,"endTime":1437.24,"body":"be very prompt in excavating"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1437.24,"endTime":1442.04,"body":"very clearly. But at the same"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1437.24,"endTime":1442.04,"body":"time, you have to collect all"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1442.04,"endTime":1445.61,"body":"the information. You have to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1442.04,"endTime":1445.61,"body":"present to the Iraqi colleagues"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1446.06,"endTime":1450.17,"body":"all the information. You have to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1446.06,"endTime":1450.17,"body":"deliver the objects and all of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1450.17,"endTime":1453.86,"body":"the information that you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1450.17,"endTime":1453.86,"body":"collected to the Iraqi Museum in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1459.11,"body":"Baghdad. So everything must be"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1459.11,"body":"ready when it's time to come"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1459.11,"endTime":1465.89,"body":"back to Italy for us. So I think"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1459.11,"endTime":1465.89,"body":"that it is not easy to make this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1465.92,"endTime":1470.87,"body":"clear, for example, to students"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1465.92,"endTime":1470.87,"body":"that have probably in mind this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1471.02,"endTime":1472.82,"body":"Mesopotamian adventure."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1473.48,"endTime":1477.35,"body":"But I think that today, we have"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1473.48,"endTime":1477.35,"body":"to be very clear with them that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1477.5,"endTime":1482.06,"body":"our work, of course, is amazing"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1477.5,"endTime":1482.06,"body":"and is fascinating. And these,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1482.06,"endTime":1486.53,"body":"these are also thanks to Iraq"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1482.06,"endTime":1486.53,"body":"and the Iraqis that made this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1486.53,"endTime":1490.46,"body":"possible. But at the same time,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1486.53,"endTime":1490.46,"body":"I think that we have a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1490.46,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"responsibility, a responsibility"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1490.46,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"in collecting the information"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1494.81,"endTime":1500.12,"body":"and in presenting them then, not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1494.81,"endTime":1500.12,"body":"only let's say to scientists"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1500.42,"endTime":1505.1,"body":"congresses, but also to the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1500.42,"endTime":1505.1,"body":"Iraqi colleagues and to the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1505.1,"endTime":1509.93,"body":"Iraqi people. And for example,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1505.1,"endTime":1509.93,"body":"we have these with the workers,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1509.93,"endTime":1515.54,"body":"so that work with us. So we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1509.93,"endTime":1515.54,"body":"usually have dialogue about, for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1515.54,"endTime":1520.04,"body":"example, how they perceive the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1515.54,"endTime":1520.04,"body":"importance of their cultural"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1520.04,"endTime":1524.09,"body":"heritage and how they perceive"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1520.04,"endTime":1524.09,"body":"these in working, for example,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1524.36,"endTime":1529.52,"body":"with us on these aspects. So I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1524.36,"endTime":1529.52,"body":"think that this is a, I would"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1529.52,"endTime":1534.77,"body":"say, a new responsibility. But,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1529.52,"endTime":1534.77,"body":"in fact, we should say that it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1534.77,"endTime":1539.42,"body":"should be a responsibility, not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1534.77,"endTime":1539.42,"body":"new. So it was part of our work."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1539.42,"endTime":1544.46,"body":"But today, I think that this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1539.42,"endTime":1544.46,"body":"responsibility must be even more"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1544.49,"endTime":1546.68,"body":"present and pressing probably."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1547.82,"endTime":1550.61,"body":"Anyone who wants to better"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1547.82,"endTime":1550.61,"body":"understand the history and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1550.61,"endTime":1554.63,"body":"archaeology of ancient Iraq"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1550.61,"endTime":1554.63,"body":"could do a lot of work without"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1554.63,"endTime":1558.65,"body":"even leaving their desk or"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1554.63,"endTime":1558.65,"body":"leaving the library. And then"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1558.65,"endTime":1562.01,"body":"there's lots of survey work,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1558.65,"endTime":1562.01,"body":"remote sensing and site"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1562.01,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"preservation, for example. Can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1562.01,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"you say something about why"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1567.02,"endTime":1571.22,"body":"excavation as a technique is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1567.02,"endTime":1571.22,"body":"still important at this time?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1572.12,"endTime":1576.26,"body":"Yeah, I think that I mean,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1572.12,"endTime":1576.26,"body":"excavation is important."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1576.26,"endTime":1580.76,"body":"Because, yes, you're right. And"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1576.26,"endTime":1580.76,"body":"I think that the situation"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1580.76,"endTime":1585.83,"body":"today, if we think of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1580.76,"endTime":1585.83,"body":"political situation in the Near"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1585.83,"endTime":1589.97,"body":"East, sometimes Iraq, for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1585.83,"endTime":1589.97,"body":"example, for a long time, it was"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1589.97,"endTime":1594.05,"body":"impossible to go working there,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1589.97,"endTime":1594.05,"body":"at least for us. But we have not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1594.05,"endTime":1597.35,"body":"to forget that the Iraqis were"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1594.05,"endTime":1597.35,"body":"working there, and that they"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1597.38,"endTime":1601.01,"body":"made a wonderful job in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1597.38,"endTime":1601.01,"body":"protecting and in trying to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1601.01,"endTime":1605.78,"body":"protect the cultural heritage."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1601.01,"endTime":1605.78,"body":"So in fact, we could, to a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1605.78,"endTime":1610.64,"body":"certain extent, make archaeology"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1605.78,"endTime":1610.64,"body":"virtually. So from libraries,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1610.64,"endTime":1618.08,"body":"from our desk. You from UK, me"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1610.64,"endTime":1618.08,"body":"from Italy. And in fact, it is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1618.08,"endTime":1620.99,"body":"possible to do this. But why"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1618.08,"endTime":1620.99,"body":"going there?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1621.38,"endTime":1626.0,"body":"I think it is important because"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1621.38,"endTime":1626.0,"body":"you need, of course, to have a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1626.0,"endTime":1631.46,"body":"concrete and physical proof of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1626.0,"endTime":1631.46,"body":"your ideas. And I think that any"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1631.46,"endTime":1635.57,"body":"time you start an archaeological"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1631.46,"endTime":1635.57,"body":"project, you should have or you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1635.57,"endTime":1640.31,"body":"must have in mind historical"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1635.57,"endTime":1640.31,"body":"questions. And to find the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1640.31,"endTime":1645.62,"body":"correct answers, you need to go"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1640.31,"endTime":1645.62,"body":"to test them in the field,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1645.62,"endTime":1649.7,"body":"because only after you have"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1645.62,"endTime":1649.7,"body":"excavated the site, you can in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1649.7,"endTime":1654.41,"body":"fact prove that you were right"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1649.7,"endTime":1654.41,"body":"or, for example, that your data"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1654.41,"endTime":1657.68,"body":"that you are excavating, and so"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1654.41,"endTime":1657.68,"body":"the data that are coming out,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1658.19,"endTime":1661.61,"body":"can give you the possibility to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1658.19,"endTime":1661.61,"body":"change, of course, your mind, to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1661.61,"endTime":1665.84,"body":"change your historical question"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1661.61,"endTime":1665.84,"body":"and to find a new answer to any"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1665.84,"endTime":1669.68,"body":"historical problems that was not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1665.84,"endTime":1669.68,"body":"solved in the past."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1670.49,"endTime":1673.88,"body":"At the same time, I think that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1670.49,"endTime":1673.88,"body":"the excavations give the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1673.88,"endTime":1678.5,"body":"possibility not only to bring to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1673.88,"endTime":1678.5,"body":"light material culture,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1678.53,"endTime":1682.43,"body":"architecture, and the importance"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1678.53,"endTime":1682.43,"body":"of the archaeological heritage,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1682.7,"endTime":1688.01,"body":"but then these have to be"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1682.7,"endTime":1688.01,"body":"displayed in museums. So we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1688.01,"endTime":1692.93,"body":"have, I think, today the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1688.01,"endTime":1692.93,"body":"important responsibility of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1692.93,"endTime":1697.82,"body":"public archaeology. This is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1692.93,"endTime":1697.82,"body":"probably a label that has been"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1698.24,"endTime":1703.04,"body":"too much used, or I can say"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1698.24,"endTime":1703.04,"body":"abused, sometimes. But I still"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1703.04,"endTime":1706.49,"body":"believe that public archaeology"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1703.04,"endTime":1706.49,"body":"is an important task of our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1706.49,"endTime":1711.47,"body":"work. So it is not just to go in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1706.49,"endTime":1711.47,"body":"there making excavation enjoying"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1711.53,"endTime":1716.72,"body":"and just publishing wonderful"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1711.53,"endTime":1716.72,"body":"material. But then we need to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1716.75,"endTime":1723.38,"body":"explain and to make this public,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1716.75,"endTime":1723.38,"body":"in museums, in exhibitions, for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1723.38,"endTime":1729.14,"body":"example, with school projects"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1723.38,"endTime":1729.14,"body":"that can be made in Iraq, thanks"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1729.2,"endTime":1731.15,"body":"to the collaboration with the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1729.2,"endTime":1731.15,"body":"Iraqis."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1731.6,"endTime":1737.45,"body":"And so I think that archaeology"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1731.6,"endTime":1737.45,"body":"is still important, because it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1737.45,"endTime":1742.82,"body":"gives really the idea on how we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1737.45,"endTime":1742.82,"body":"were, so we can understand"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1742.82,"endTime":1747.44,"body":"really our past. And I still"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1742.82,"endTime":1747.44,"body":"believe ... probably I'm too"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1747.47,"endTime":1752.42,"body":"optimistic, but I still believe"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1747.47,"endTime":1752.42,"body":"... that studying the past is so"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1752.42,"endTime":1757.01,"body":"much important and fundamental"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1752.42,"endTime":1757.01,"body":"to understand the present and to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1757.01,"endTime":1762.29,"body":"plan the future. So if we know"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1757.01,"endTime":1762.29,"body":"from where we are coming from"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1762.32,"endTime":1767.93,"body":"and how the world worked in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1762.32,"endTime":1767.93,"body":"past, we can in fact understand"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1768.56,"endTime":1774.59,"body":"our present and then plan and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1768.56,"endTime":1774.59,"body":"explain new possibilities for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1774.59,"endTime":1779.51,"body":"the future. So I still believe"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1774.59,"endTime":1779.51,"body":"that archaeology is not just an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1779.51,"endTime":1785.72,"body":"adventure or something that is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1779.51,"endTime":1785.72,"body":"seen by people ... I remember"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1785.9,"endTime":1789.23,"body":"and still today it happens, when"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1785.9,"endTime":1789.23,"body":"you say that you are an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1789.23,"endTime":1792.8,"body":"archaeologist, the first"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1789.23,"endTime":1792.8,"body":"reaction is, let's say a wow"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1792.83,"endTime":1799.25,"body":"effect. And then immediately"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1792.83,"endTime":1799.25,"body":"after people ... and you can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1799.28,"endTime":1803.57,"body":"perfectly see in their eyes ..."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1799.28,"endTime":1803.57,"body":"they are asking themselves"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1803.57,"endTime":1810.44,"body":"\"Okay, but wonderful, amazing."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1803.57,"endTime":1810.44,"body":"But is it useful or is it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1810.47,"endTime":1811.28,"body":"useless?\""},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1811.79,"endTime":1816.89,"body":"So I'm still believing that it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1811.79,"endTime":1816.89,"body":"is useful, not only because I am"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1816.89,"endTime":1820.88,"body":"an archaeologist, and I'm doing"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1816.89,"endTime":1820.88,"body":"this job, but because I think"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1820.88,"endTime":1826.28,"body":"that it depends mostly on how we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1820.88,"endTime":1826.28,"body":"deal with archaeology today and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1826.28,"endTime":1832.46,"body":"how we think our aims and goals"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1826.28,"endTime":1832.46,"body":"are today in the archaeological"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1832.46,"endTime":1835.16,"body":"discourse, and in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1832.46,"endTime":1835.16,"body":"archaeological, let's say,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1835.37,"endTime":1840.59,"body":"theoretical background. So it is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1835.37,"endTime":1840.59,"body":"working, it is understanding the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1840.59,"endTime":1846.14,"body":"past, but it is also making the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1840.59,"endTime":1846.14,"body":"past available. And in doing"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1846.14,"endTime":1850.22,"body":"this, you need also to protect"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1846.14,"endTime":1850.22,"body":"this cultural heritage. So you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1850.22,"endTime":1856.55,"body":"have to protect these memories."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1850.22,"endTime":1856.55,"body":"And if we achieve to build up"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1856.55,"endTime":1861.32,"body":"then a common shared memory,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1856.55,"endTime":1861.32,"body":"that could be not only that you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1861.44,"endTime":1865.82,"body":"perfectly identify with the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1861.44,"endTime":1865.82,"body":"past, but you understand even"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1865.82,"endTime":1869.84,"body":"the differences with the past, I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1865.82,"endTime":1869.84,"body":"think that it is much important"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1869.84,"endTime":1871.1,"body":"for the new generation."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1871.57,"endTime":1875.56,"body":"Okay. You've already answered"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1871.57,"endTime":1875.56,"body":"what was going to be my next"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1875.56,"endTime":1879.46,"body":"question about sharing the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1875.56,"endTime":1879.46,"body":"results. Can we move then to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1879.46,"endTime":1883.99,"body":"what happens next? So once the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1879.46,"endTime":1883.99,"body":"project is finished, you've"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1883.99,"endTime":1888.19,"body":"achieved your goals, the funding"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1883.99,"endTime":1888.19,"body":"has run out, you're left with a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1888.19,"endTime":1893.89,"body":"big hole full of vulnerable"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1888.19,"endTime":1893.89,"body":"mudbrick architecture. What"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1893.89,"endTime":1898.06,"body":"happens in terms of conservation"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1893.89,"endTime":1898.06,"body":"and preservation of the site?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1899.11,"endTime":1904.48,"body":"This is a really hard task, I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1899.11,"endTime":1904.48,"body":"have to say. For example, in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1904.48,"endTime":1909.64,"body":"Iraq, after the excavation, we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1904.48,"endTime":1909.64,"body":"usually cover the excavation"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1909.67,"endTime":1915.34,"body":"areas. But I still believe and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1909.67,"endTime":1915.34,"body":"I'm convinced that the covering"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1915.34,"endTime":1920.8,"body":"and the protection that we are"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1915.34,"endTime":1920.8,"body":"doing is not enough. Or at least"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1920.86,"endTime":1926.23,"body":"I think that it is enough for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1920.86,"endTime":1926.23,"body":"the protection or temporary"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1926.23,"endTime":1929.2,"body":"protection of the mud brick"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1926.23,"endTime":1929.2,"body":"structures."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1929.2,"endTime":1934.12,"body":"But then if you wanted to make"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1929.2,"endTime":1934.12,"body":"this area public, so let's say"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1934.12,"endTime":1937.9,"body":"that people, for example, we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1934.12,"endTime":1937.9,"body":"have in our village nearby the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1937.9,"endTime":1941.02,"body":"site of school. So if we wanted"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1937.9,"endTime":1941.02,"body":"that, for example, children from"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1941.02,"endTime":1945.79,"body":"the schools are going to visit"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1941.02,"endTime":1945.79,"body":"the site, they need to perceive"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1945.82,"endTime":1951.4,"body":"and I would say to feel the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1945.82,"endTime":1951.4,"body":"importance of what we found. If"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1951.43,"endTime":1956.14,"body":"they only see areas covered,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1951.43,"endTime":1956.14,"body":"yes, they can perceive that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1956.17,"endTime":1959.38,"body":"underneath there is something"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1956.17,"endTime":1959.38,"body":"important and something"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1959.38,"endTime":1962.92,"body":"archaeologically important. But"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1959.38,"endTime":1962.92,"body":"they do not perceive"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1962.92,"endTime":1967.9,"body":"specifically the shape of how,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1962.92,"endTime":1967.9,"body":"for example, an ancient Sumerian"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1967.93,"endTime":1974.17,"body":"house was. So I think that we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1967.93,"endTime":1974.17,"body":"need to improve the protection."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1974.0,"endTime":1978.5,"body":"And for example, what I'm trying"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1974.0,"endTime":1978.5,"body":"to do ... just this year, it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1978.5,"endTime":1983.9,"body":"started this project ...  is to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1978.5,"endTime":1983.9,"body":"think of a project about what I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1983.9,"endTime":1988.91,"body":"call the \"eco-architecture\". So"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1983.9,"endTime":1988.91,"body":"in using, of course, new"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1988.91,"endTime":1993.98,"body":"materials, eco-compatible"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1988.91,"endTime":1993.98,"body":"materials, for the protection,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1994.01,"endTime":1998.54,"body":"for example of the mud bricks. I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1994.01,"endTime":1998.54,"body":"remember when we were working in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1998.54,"endTime":2002.26,"body":"Syria, at Ebla, we started the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":1998.54,"endTime":2002.26,"body":"restoration project. For"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2002.26,"endTime":2006.64,"body":"example, the ancient mud brick"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2002.26,"endTime":2006.64,"body":"walls, they were protected and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2006.64,"endTime":2010.15,"body":"covered by new mud brick walls"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2006.64,"endTime":2010.15,"body":"that they were made with the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2010.15,"endTime":2015.67,"body":"same soil of the site. So I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2010.15,"endTime":2015.67,"body":"think that this, it is not, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2015.67,"endTime":2019.3,"body":"course, the best solution. But I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2015.67,"endTime":2019.3,"body":"think this could be one of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2019.3,"endTime":2025.12,"body":"solutions we can approach and we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2019.3,"endTime":2025.12,"body":"can use in making then the site"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2025.18,"endTime":2028.84,"body":"available and visible. But"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2025.18,"endTime":2028.84,"body":"without, of course, resorting"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2028.87,"endTime":2033.37,"body":"to, for example, reconstruction"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2028.87,"endTime":2033.37,"body":"of the ancient building. But"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2033.37,"endTime":2038.71,"body":"just to make them clear and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2033.37,"endTime":2038.71,"body":"perceivable by the people that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2038.71,"endTime":2044.44,"body":"can, let's say, see the sketch"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2038.71,"endTime":2044.44,"body":"and the plan of a building, just"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2044.74,"endTime":2047.92,"body":"protecting the ancient mud brick"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2044.74,"endTime":2047.92,"body":"of the site."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2048.25,"endTime":2054.46,"body":"But it is a really hard job,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2048.25,"endTime":2054.46,"body":"because it then needs not only a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2054.46,"endTime":2058.69,"body":"project and the plan to do it,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2054.46,"endTime":2058.69,"body":"but you need then a project and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2058.69,"endTime":2064.93,"body":"the plan to let's say, repair it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2058.69,"endTime":2064.93,"body":"every year. Because if you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2064.96,"endTime":2069.55,"body":"cover, for example, ancient mud"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2064.96,"endTime":2069.55,"body":"bricks with new mud bricks, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2069.55,"endTime":2074.38,"body":"course, you preserve the ancient"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2069.55,"endTime":2074.38,"body":"structures. But as we know, mud"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2074.38,"endTime":2078.97,"body":"bricks, they are not so strong,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2074.38,"endTime":2078.97,"body":"so after heavy rains, snow,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2079.0,"endTime":2085.18,"body":"wind, they collapse or they can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2079.0,"endTime":2085.18,"body":"be ruined by the weather"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2085.18,"endTime":2089.5,"body":"conditions. So you need also"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2085.18,"endTime":2089.5,"body":"then to repair the restoration."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2089.77,"endTime":2092.44,"body":"So you have to make the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2089.77,"endTime":2092.44,"body":"restoration of the restoration."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2092.71,"endTime":2097.24,"body":"So I think it is a job that we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2092.71,"endTime":2097.24,"body":"have to do. We need to do."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2098.02,"endTime":2102.31,"body":"I think this is also part of our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2098.02,"endTime":2102.31,"body":"responsibility again. But for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2102.31,"endTime":2107.8,"body":"this, I think we should make a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2102.31,"endTime":2107.8,"body":"clear plan and an affordable"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2107.8,"endTime":2112.63,"body":"plan. And when I say this, I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2107.8,"endTime":2112.63,"body":"also think, of course, because"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2113.05,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"it is everything seems very easy"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2113.05,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"and wonderful. But to do this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2119.53,"endTime":2123.94,"body":"work you need, of course"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2119.53,"endTime":2123.94,"body":"funding. And so you have to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2123.94,"endTime":2129.64,"body":"collect also sources that give"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2123.94,"endTime":2129.64,"body":"you the possibility to make such"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2129.64,"endTime":2134.59,"body":"a project. And to make such a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2129.64,"endTime":2134.59,"body":"project, let's say, lasting, at"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2134.59,"endTime":2137.02,"body":"least for a certain period of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2134.59,"endTime":2137.02,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2138.05,"endTime":2142.55,"body":"Before you get to dig any holes"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2138.05,"endTime":2142.55,"body":"in a site in Iraq, you need a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2142.55,"endTime":2145.79,"body":"permit from the State Board of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2142.55,"endTime":2145.79,"body":"Antiquities and Heritage."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2146.57,"endTime":2151.04,"body":"Recently, Dr. Jaafar Jotheri of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2146.57,"endTime":2151.04,"body":"the University of Al-Qadisiyyah"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2151.46,"endTime":2155.36,"body":"circulated a ten point list,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2151.46,"endTime":2155.36,"body":"which had come out of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2155.36,"endTime":2159.08,"body":"discussions that Iraqi"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2155.36,"endTime":2159.08,"body":"colleagues had been having about"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2159.08,"endTime":2163.52,"body":"ways in which the situation"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2159.08,"endTime":2163.52,"body":"around excavation licenses could"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2163.52,"endTime":2168.56,"body":"be improved. I was wondering,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2163.52,"endTime":2168.56,"body":"you know, as the director of a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2168.56,"endTime":2172.37,"body":"foreign expedition in Iraq, did"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2168.56,"endTime":2172.37,"body":"you have any thoughts on that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2172.37,"endTime":2172.82,"body":"list?"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2173.36,"endTime":2179.39,"body":"Yeah, I saw the list made by"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2173.36,"endTime":2179.39,"body":"Jaafar. And I also, I was in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2179.39,"endTime":2183.5,"body":"touch with him, because I said"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2179.39,"endTime":2183.5,"body":"that I was completely in"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2183.5,"endTime":2187.16,"body":"agreement with him. So I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2183.5,"endTime":2187.16,"body":"definitely agree with him about"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2187.19,"endTime":2191.81,"body":"this list. And I think it is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2187.19,"endTime":2191.81,"body":"very important, very, very"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2191.81,"endTime":2197.03,"body":"important that this list comes"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2191.81,"endTime":2197.03,"body":"from Iraqi colleagues. As I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2197.03,"endTime":2200.69,"body":"said, we are all responsible."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2197.03,"endTime":2200.69,"body":"But they are the first"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2200.78,"endTime":2205.52,"body":"responsibles of their own"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2200.78,"endTime":2205.52,"body":"cultural heritage. I think that"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2205.52,"endTime":2208.73,"body":"it is important, for example,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2205.52,"endTime":2208.73,"body":"one of the point when he said"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2208.73,"endTime":2213.98,"body":"the foreign expedition should"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2208.73,"endTime":2213.98,"body":"ask for permission of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2213.98,"endTime":2218.27,"body":"archaeological sites, but they"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2213.98,"endTime":2218.27,"body":"have to deal with the request of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2218.27,"endTime":2222.47,"body":"the Iraqi State Board of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2218.27,"endTime":2222.47,"body":"Antiquities. And this reminded"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2222.47,"endTime":2226.67,"body":"me immediately how we started"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2222.47,"endTime":2226.67,"body":"our excavation in Tell Surghul,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2226.7,"endTime":2230.6,"body":"that, in fact, we asked  an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2226.7,"endTime":2230.6,"body":"Iraqi colleague, so Abdulamir"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2230.6,"endTime":2236.45,"body":"Hamdani, where we could do this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2230.6,"endTime":2236.45,"body":"project. And which were in his"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2236.45,"endTime":2241.49,"body":"opinion, of course, the needs"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2236.45,"endTime":2241.49,"body":"where to go to start such a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2241.49,"endTime":2242.45,"body":"project in Iraq."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2242.45,"endTime":2247.55,"body":"So I think that it is very"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2242.45,"endTime":2247.55,"body":"important, it should probably be"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2247.55,"endTime":2251.3,"body":"already in the mind of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2247.55,"endTime":2251.3,"body":"archaeology asking for an"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2251.3,"endTime":2254.87,"body":"archaeological permission. But"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2251.3,"endTime":2254.87,"body":"if this becomes a rule, I think"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2254.87,"endTime":2260.51,"body":"it is very important. What I was"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2254.87,"endTime":2260.51,"body":"suggesting [to] Jaafar is that I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2260.51,"endTime":2265.7,"body":"think that these kinds of lists"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2260.51,"endTime":2265.7,"body":"should be the result, I think,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2265.73,"endTime":2271.61,"body":"of a workshop, that should be"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2265.73,"endTime":2271.61,"body":"done in Iraq. Since one of the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2271.61,"endTime":2276.77,"body":"points was probably ... I don't"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2271.61,"endTime":2276.77,"body":"know if it was a provocation; at"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2276.77,"endTime":2281.93,"body":"least it was important to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2276.77,"endTime":2281.93,"body":"propose and to bring to light"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2281.96,"endTime":2285.74,"body":"this aspect ... was the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2281.96,"endTime":2285.74,"body":"decolonisation of Near Eastern"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2285.74,"endTime":2291.05,"body":"archaeology. And probably, we"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2285.74,"endTime":2291.05,"body":"should also start stopping to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2291.08,"endTime":2294.29,"body":"speaking of Near Eastern"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2291.08,"endTime":2294.29,"body":"archaeology. Because of course,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2294.29,"endTime":2298.55,"body":"it is the Near East, because it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2294.29,"endTime":2298.55,"body":"is looked at from the European"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2298.58,"endTime":2303.8,"body":"point of view. So even the .. I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2298.58,"endTime":2303.8,"body":"mean the definition is, in fact,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2304.1,"endTime":2306.95,"body":"the result of a colonisation of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2304.1,"endTime":2306.95,"body":"that area."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2307.56,"endTime":2311.7,"body":"So I was suggesting him, yes, it"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2307.56,"endTime":2311.7,"body":"is important, but I think it is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2311.7,"endTime":2317.28,"body":"important to do in Iraq. So I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2311.7,"endTime":2317.28,"body":"really warmly suggest him to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2317.49,"endTime":2321.75,"body":"organise a workshop in Baghdad,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2317.49,"endTime":2321.75,"body":"in his university in Qadisiyyah"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2321.78,"endTime":2325.14,"body":"with the State Board of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2321.78,"endTime":2325.14,"body":"Antiquities and Heritage, with"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2325.14,"endTime":2330.48,"body":"all the expeditions working"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2325.14,"endTime":2330.48,"body":"today in Iraq. And with Iraqi"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2330.78,"endTime":2334.44,"body":"colleagues working in the State"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2330.78,"endTime":2334.44,"body":"Board, in the universities."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2334.65,"endTime":2339.6,"body":"Because I think that we should"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2334.65,"endTime":2339.6,"body":"arrive to a list, that is, of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2339.6,"endTime":2344.43,"body":"course, the answer of their"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2339.6,"endTime":2344.43,"body":"desires. But at the same time, I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2344.43,"endTime":2348.51,"body":"think that with all our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2344.43,"endTime":2348.51,"body":"experience, and so working in a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2348.51,"endTime":2351.39,"body":"really cooperation, we can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2348.51,"endTime":2351.39,"body":"arrive to understand for"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2351.39,"endTime":2356.4,"body":"example, if in fact all the ten"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2351.39,"endTime":2356.4,"body":"points can be done immediately."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2356.4,"endTime":2360.9,"body":"Or if, for example, we can start"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2356.4,"endTime":2360.9,"body":"with the first seven, and then"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2360.93,"endTime":2364.8,"body":"we have the result of the other"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2360.93,"endTime":2364.8,"body":"three, that can be, let's say,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2364.83,"endTime":2369.09,"body":"naturally coming if the first"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2364.83,"endTime":2369.09,"body":"seven have been achieved."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2369.66,"endTime":2374.31,"body":"So I think that it is important"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2369.66,"endTime":2374.31,"body":"to keep on this dialogue. But"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2374.91,"endTime":2381.03,"body":"his ten points list is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2374.91,"endTime":2381.03,"body":"definitely important, and it is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2381.21,"endTime":2385.92,"body":"definitely, I think, an urgent"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2381.21,"endTime":2385.92,"body":"question that we need to deal"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2385.95,"endTime":2392.85,"body":"with al, Iraqis and foreigners"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2385.95,"endTime":2392.85,"body":"that are working today in Iraq."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2393.6,"endTime":2397.38,"body":"And if I can say not only"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2393.6,"endTime":2397.38,"body":"probably in Iraq, but let's say"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2397.41,"endTime":2401.85,"body":"in all the area. Because I think"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2397.41,"endTime":2401.85,"body":"that the he really points out"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2402.18,"endTime":2407.34,"body":"something very important that I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2402.18,"endTime":2407.34,"body":"think can be perfectly applied"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2407.37,"endTime":2411.54,"body":"not only in Iraq, but even in, I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2407.37,"endTime":2411.54,"body":"mean, Jordan, Turkey and in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2411.54,"endTime":2415.65,"body":"other regions, where we usually"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2411.54,"endTime":2415.65,"body":"work in archaeology in the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2415.65,"endTime":2420.36,"body":"field. So I think this was"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2415.65,"endTime":2420.36,"body":"important since it is the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2420.36,"endTime":2426.24,"body":"current debate of archaeology. I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2420.36,"endTime":2426.24,"body":"think what he really tried to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2426.27,"endTime":2429.75,"body":"suggest, but I would say, not"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2426.27,"endTime":2429.75,"body":"only to suggest, but really to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2429.75,"endTime":2432.81,"body":"plan, because it's not just a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2429.75,"endTime":2432.81,"body":"suggestion. So I really"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2432.81,"endTime":2436.26,"body":"appreciate the effort of Jaafar"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2432.81,"endTime":2436.26,"body":"not just to make a suggestion,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2436.26,"endTime":2440.82,"body":"but to really make a plan. And"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2436.26,"endTime":2440.82,"body":"so I think that we need to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2440.82,"endTime":2445.29,"body":"respect this plan and to work"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2440.82,"endTime":2445.29,"body":"together with them to make this"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2445.29,"endTime":2452.43,"body":"plan, as I said, really real and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2445.29,"endTime":2452.43,"body":"affordable. Sometimes it is easy"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2452.43,"endTime":2456.27,"body":"to make a list because you just"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2452.43,"endTime":2456.27,"body":"wrote notes. But then the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2456.27,"endTime":2460.98,"body":"important thing is to translate"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2456.27,"endTime":2460.98,"body":"this list in reality. And I"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2460.98,"endTime":2465.72,"body":"think that we need to work with"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2460.98,"endTime":2465.72,"body":"them to make this possible,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2465.72,"endTime":2471.21,"body":"because they gave us the"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2465.72,"endTime":2471.21,"body":"possibility to work in Iraq. And"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2471.21,"endTime":2476.94,"body":"I think that our responsibility"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2471.21,"endTime":2476.94,"body":"now today is to make this plan"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2477.06,"endTime":2477.63,"body":"real."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2478.83,"endTime":2480.06,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2480.36,"endTime":2484.864,"body":"You are very welcome. Thanks to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2480.36,"endTime":2484.864,"body":"you really for this dialogue and"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2484.934,"endTime":2487.75,"body":"conversation on Iraq and on archaeology."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2487.03,"endTime":2492.79,"body":"Id also like to thank our"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2487.03,"endTime":2492.79,"body":"patrons: Tyler Russell, Enrique"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2492.79,"endTime":2498.1,"body":"Jimenez, Jana Matuszak, Nancy"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2492.79,"endTime":2498.1,"body":"Highcock, Jay C, Rune"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2498.1,"endTime":2504.01,"body":"Rattenborg, Woodthrush, Elisa"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2498.1,"endTime":2504.01,"body":"Rossberger, Mark Weeden, Jordi"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2504.01,"endTime":2509.89,"body":"Mon Companys, Thomas Bolin, Joan"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2504.01,"endTime":2509.89,"body":"Porter MacIver, John MacGinnis,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2510.25,"endTime":2515.23,"body":"Andrew George, Yelena Rakic,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2510.25,"endTime":2515.23,"body":"Michael Katsevman, Mend"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2515.26,"endTime":2521.2,"body":"Mariwany, Kathryn Topper, Zach"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2515.26,"endTime":2521.2,"body":"Rubin, Sabina Franke, Sophus"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2521.2,"endTime":2527.53,"body":"Helle, Shai Gordin, Aaron Macks,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2521.2,"endTime":2527.53,"body":"Jonathan Stkl, Maarja Seire,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2527.92,"endTime":2532.99,"body":"Jaafar Jotheri, Morgan Hite,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2527.92,"endTime":2532.99,"body":"Chikako Watanabe, Mark"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2532.99,"endTime":2537.79,"body":"McElwaine, Heather Baker,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2532.99,"endTime":2537.79,"body":"Sukanya Ramanujan, Laura"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2537.79,"endTime":2543.55,"body":"Battini, Jonathan Blanchard"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2537.79,"endTime":2543.55,"body":"Smith, Vanessa Richards, Kliment"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2543.55,"endTime":2549.37,"body":"Ohr, TT, Christina"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2543.55,"endTime":2549.37,"body":"Tsouparopoulou, Andwer Senior,"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2549.91,"endTime":2554.02,"body":"Melanie Gross, as well as those"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2549.91,"endTime":2554.02,"body":"who prefer to remain anonymous."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2554.86,"endTime":2557.44,"body":"I really appreciate your"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2554.86,"endTime":2557.44,"body":"support. It makes a big"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2557.44,"endTime":2561.97,"body":"difference. Every penny received"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2557.44,"endTime":2561.97,"body":"has contributed towards"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2561.97,"endTime":2565.42,"body":"translations. Thanks of course"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2561.97,"endTime":2565.42,"body":"to the lovely people who have"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2565.42,"endTime":2568.84,"body":"worked on the translations on a"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2565.42,"endTime":2568.84,"body":"voluntary basis or for well"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2568.84,"endTime":2573.07,"body":"below the market rate. For"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2568.84,"endTime":2573.07,"body":"Arabic, thanks in particular to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2573.07,"endTime":2577.78,"body":"Zainab Mizyidawi, as well as"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2573.07,"endTime":2577.78,"body":"Lina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2578.62,"endTime":2585.16,"body":"For Turkish, thank you to Pinar"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2578.62,"endTime":2585.16,"body":"Durgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2585.16,"endTime":2588.67,"body":"still young, but I want to reach"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2585.16,"endTime":2588.67,"body":"a sustainable level, where"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2588.67,"endTime":2591.85,"body":"translators are given proper"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2588.67,"endTime":2591.85,"body":"compensation for their hard"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2591.85,"endTime":2592.3,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2594.58,"endTime":2597.85,"body":"And thank you for listening to"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2594.58,"endTime":2597.85,"body":"Thin End of the Wedge. If you"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2597.85,"endTime":2601.12,"body":"enjoy what we do, and you would"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2597.85,"endTime":2601.12,"body":"like to help make these podcasts"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2601.12,"endTime":2604.21,"body":"available in Middle Eastern"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2601.12,"endTime":2604.21,"body":"languages, please consider"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2604.21,"endTime":2608.05,"body":"joining our Patreon family. You"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2604.21,"endTime":2608.05,"body":"can find us at"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2608.08,"endTime":2614.41,"body":"patreon.com/wedgepod. You can"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2608.08,"endTime":2614.41,"body":"also support us in other ways:"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2615.07,"endTime":2618.91,"body":"simply subscribe to the podcast;"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2615.07,"endTime":2618.91,"body":"leave us a five star review on"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2618.91,"endTime":2622.21,"body":"iTunes or your podcatcher of"},{"speaker":"water","startTime":2618.91,"endTime":2622.21,"body":"choice; recommend us to your"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2622.21,"endTime":2628.42,"body":"@wedge_pod. If you want the"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2628.42,"endTime":2631.96,"body":"latest podcast news, you can"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2628.42,"endTime":2631.96,"body":"sign up for our newsletter. You"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2631.96,"endTime":2635.74,"body":"can find all the links in the"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2631.96,"endTime":2635.74,"body":"show notes and on our website at"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2638.41,"endTime":2644.68,"body":"wedgepod.org. Thanks, and I hope"},{"speaker":"friends; follow us on Twitter","startTime":2638.41,"endTime":2644.68,"body":"youll join us next time."}]}