A Conversation with Michelle Townley

In this episode, Michelle Townley talks to us about community, relationships, school culture, and the spirit of collective efficacy. Michelle is known for her work in schools, supporting teachers and school leaders, coordinating curriculum, and supporting school operations. Mrs. Townley has worked in public education for nearly 25 years. She has served as a classroom teacher, Dean of Students, Assistant Principal, and Principal, and in a number of district wide roles as Director of Literacy, Regional Assistant Superintendent, and as Acting Chief Academic Officer. Most recently, Michelle took the opportunity to fulfill her career-long goal of opening a new school in her hometown as Principal.

To cite this episode:
Persohn, L. (Host). (2022, Oct. 11 ). A conversation with Michelle Townley. (Season 3, No. 9) [Audio podcast episode]. In Classroom Caffeine Podcast series. https://www.classroomcaffeine.com/guests. 10.5240/97F5-79B1-C48D-D863-B370-X

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Transcript

Lindsay Persohn: 0:10

Education research has a problem. The work of brilliant education researchers often doesn't reach the practice of brilliant teachers. Classroom Caffeine is here to help. In each episode I talk with a top education researcher or an expert educator about what they have learned from years of research and experiences. In this episode, Michelle Townley talks to us about community relationships, school culture and the spirit of collective efficacy. Michelle is known for her work in schools, supporting teachers and school leaders, coordinating curriculum and supporting school operations. Mrs. Townley has worked in public education for nearly 25 years, she has served as a classroom teacher, Dean of Students assistant principal and principal and in a number of district wide roles as director of literacy, regional assistant superintendent and as Acting Chief Academic Officer. Most recently, Michelle took the opportunity to fulfill her career long goal of opening a new school in her hometown as principal for more information about our guest, stay tuned to the end of this episode. So pour a cup of your favorite drink. And join me your host, Lindsay Persohn, for Classroom Caffeine, research to energize your teaching practice. Michelle, thank you for joining me, welcome to the show.

Michelle Townley: 1:38

Thank you so much.

Lindsay Persohn: 1:39

So from your own experiences and education, will you share with us one or two moments that inform your thinking now?

Michelle Townley: 1:46

Absolutely. So first of all, I was that kid who always wanted to be a teacher, I lined up my stuffed animals, and they were going to school. So I think by having that mindset as a child, I often look to my own teachers and watched what they did and how they interacted with children. And I was just blessed to have some really amazing teachers over the years. And I just knew I wanted to be a teacher. And it became even more solidified as I started high school. As a first generation college student in my family, I didn't always know the complexities that lies ahead to applying to school or for scholarships, and I just had some teachers that just took me under their wing, and really helped me out. And so actually still keep in touch with a lot of them today. Sadly, a few of them have passed away, but the ones who are still around, I keep in touch with them. And ultimately, I think I wanted to do for others what they did for me. And so that greatly informs my thinking. And secondly, I now have my former students who are teachers in my school. And so to tell you like how that makes you feel is is almost indescribable. I mean, when I first started teaching, I had no idea I'll be a principal one day, let alone that students sitting in my classroom would work for me. So I think by this happening is just solidified my belief in children's futures. They're capable of so much. I mean, I have students of mine who are teachers. One of my former students is my hairstylist. Another former student is a plumber who popped out from under my kitchen sink one day and said Miss Townley is that you. I mean, they're in the military, they work in international affairs, they own their own businesses are doctors, nurses, firefighters, financial advisors, the list goes on and on. But my teachers who are my students, and they're in my school now there are daily visual reminder of the potential in our kids. And so I just I think those two elements have probably had the most influence on my thinking.

Lindsay Persohn: 3:49

Everything you say, reminds me of, of things I hear quite often in these conversations, except I think that your storied approach to how you talk about your colleagues now, your former students, and what your students are doing in the world, I just keep thinking about how much relationships matter in education. And I think that's a cornerstone for your work.

Michelle Townley: 4:07

Absolutely. It's interesting to hear and speak with my former students who are now my teachers and hear their takes on different things that happened to them in school and you know, some of them tell funny stories about you remember when you did this, or, or one of my students that I had, I was actually pregnant with my son the year she was in my class, and I just had the worst morning sickness and she was a little a little active. And so I trained her how to teach the class for our daily warmup, you know, so, we joke around, like, how did you know that? 22 years ago, I was actually training her for her job today, but and then I have another teacher. That's one of my former students that she's a child of migrant farmworkers. And so her story just always motivates me. I mean, she has such high expectations for her own students now and so to see how far she's come and how how she pushes her kids I mean, she makes no excuses for them. And it just holds me to a higher level of accountability, not only as you know, as their principal, but the human element of it, of it all the shared history that we have, they've lost parents, they've faced cancer, they've had children, they've been married, and just to experience all of that with them. And hopefully, they have felt that I have supported them all along the way, just really does speak to that relationship piece. And, you know, and, and so it helps me to communicate that to our staff, because not only my staff that were my former students, but those, you know, who have grown in their own professional work, while we've been working together, so maybe they have paraprofessionals, who have earned their degree and become teachers, teachers, who were just starting out who are now leaders, amongst their colleagues, it's exciting to see them grow. And I think, all my days where I'm tired, I see my teachers and staff, I see them as students, and they help me be accountable to expect the best and deliver the best for our students. So

Lindsay Persohn: 6:10

you talk about in my mind, with such a sense of community and culture, and as you also mentioned, sort of the generational relationships and how those do create the fabric of our communities, and not only create professional connections and professional growth, but certainly personal connections and personal growth, too. And I think it's really hard to separate those two things. We don't just bring our professional selves to work. We are our personal selves at work, too. And I hear that in everything that you say, Michelle,

Michelle Townley: 6:43

thanks, you know, and then we pay that forward to our students right now. Right? So I tell our staff, you know, it's we're creating literate problem solvers. And our goal is that they can choose any path they want in life. It's not about this single year of their school, or an end of the year high stakes test, it's about that child who will one day become an adult, and then being able to choose what all they want to do with their life. And so if we provide them with that strong foundation, and that's what my teachers did for me, and that's what I see my teachers doing now. So that, like you said, that multi generational impact, you just, I think, until you live it, you just don't realize the power of it.

Lindsay Persohn: 7:28

I would totally agree. I know a few years ago, when one of my former kindergarten students walked into my college classroom, it was just such a wonderful feeling to think that she also wanted to be a kindergarten teacher. And it was based on you know, not only her family support, but are positive experiences in school. So you really remind me of how how important how foundational that kind of work is. And I think there's a lot of noise in schools right now that can distract us from that mission, but you're really helping me to come back to what education is all about in the first place. So Michelle, what do you want listeners to know about your work?

Michelle Townley: 8:06

Well, I think that you know, and in all things I do, I asked myself two questions. And the first question is, Is this what's best for children? And then I'll get, I'll get to the second question in a minute. But over the years, I've had the good fortune to work in schools and at the district level, and I'm just really passionate about school based leadership, the relationship piece, the culture, the community, threads that really, in my experiences happen with the greatest impact at the school level. And so over the years have come up with this one pager document that we call the same page. And it's just trying to keep my whole staff on the same page. And I have to give a nod to was actually I had a manager when I was in college waiting on tables that posted a sign on the door of his office for all of us servers called the same page. And now it revolves more around consolidating your steps and failing to catch up. But the same page for me is kind of a collection of thoughts that I think matter the most. And so it drives usually my back to school message, even our school improvement planning processes, and but most importantly, I hope it drives what people see in my daily actions. And so the literal first thing on that page is the question, is this what is best for children? Followed by the phrase, it really is that simple. I think if we can answer that question in the affirmative, then we're really setting ourselves up for school to be a better place for children. I think of our legislators and representatives could ask the same question and maybe actually consult some practicing educators, and then answer that question in the affirmative. I think the entire American educator regional system could drastically be enhanced. But Lindsay, that's probably an entirely different segment. So, so back to the question, you know, is this really what's best for children? And then, as a leader, I have an incredible responsibility to ask a second question. And that is, is this what is best for my teachers and staff, it is not lost on me that I directly employ 111 People who have an impact on my student, but and they have families, and they participate in our community, and they contribute to the economy. So in leading them, I must remember that the manner in which I lead that matters greatly. And so you know, earlier, we talked about culture, and it's absolutely true. It's, you know, our words, impact relationships, and relationships, impact culture, but culture impacts everything. So if we can make sure that we're creating a place where children want to come first, but then also the adults in the building, that they're proud of where they work and the work that they do for children, then I think we're really making a difference. And so I hope, when the time comes for me to retire, that the students and families and staff I served, will be able to say without a doubt that I made decisions that were best for children first, and my staff second.

Lindsay Persohn: 11:16

Well, Michelle, just to disclose a detail to our listeners, because I used to work for you at a former position. And I can certainly say that I felt every word of that I felt as though the decisions and the leadership that you provided and still provide, does put kids first and certainly honors the work and respects the lies and the decision making power and the expertise of the people you work with. So I've definitely seen those things come into play myself. And I really love this idea of the same page, what a wonderful way to consolidate your thinking into a single place where everyone does get not only a bird's eye view of what really matters, but also I think, some action behind that. And what does that actually looked like as you operationalize that idea. So particularly because you've used the same page in restaurants and in schools, I think there's, there's such a wide application of that kind of thinking. And it's, it's really helping me to think about how I might share some big ideas with my own students when it comes to the work that we do together. So I really appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely.

Michelle Townley: 12:27

You know, teachers are busy people, they just want you to get right down to what's important and highlight it. And it especially came in handy. As we were opening a brand new school, I had children that were coming primarily from four different areas that were being rezoned, but I had teachers when we first opened, that were coming from 18 different schools, so 18 different school cultures. And so in my process of doing some research and trying to figure out, you know, the challenges of opening a brand new school, I for some reason, that same page concept just kept coming up over and over and over again. And so we really just used it as a place for us all to begin to be on the same page. And so I think it really does help and it gives teachers to the freedom to know that they're making decisions as well, in the best interest of children. Yeah,

Lindsay Persohn: 13:24

that idea of bringing together many different work environments, and you know, school cultures into a single space. I think that also has a lot of portability to other kinds of new beginnings. And just, I think, for me, you're highlighting how important it is to start a new beginning on a solid footing, and to work on building that culture and community. First, really, because it certainly undergirds everything else that comes after that. You can't do it without it.

Michelle Townley: 13:51

No, not at all. You have to have that, that culture and willingness to work together and come together. So so very important.

Lindsay Persohn: 14:00

Absolutely. So Michelle, given the challenges of today's educational climate, what message do you want teachers to hear?

Michelle Townley: 14:08

I think I would like teachers just to know how important they are right now is a challenging time for education in the world. There's just so much dichotomous thought it's either right or wrong, good or bad, or everything's the best or the worst. And I really think that that's far from the reality in which educators find themselves. So I just think we must continue to be reflective practitioners. And another piece that we really believe strongly in here at Willow oak, is just the spirit of collective efficacy. And so I think that this is where teachers really need to band together and today's challenging educational climate. We know from John Hattie's meta analysis that, you know, the effect size of collective teacher efficacy is huge, right? It's, it's, I think, 1.57 you No, it's It's definitely the number one impact on student achievement. So I'm actually first heard the research backing collective efficacy efficacy when I was a grad student at USF. And so it's just always resonated with me. And I've seen it time and time again, as a practitioner. You know, even when I was in the classroom, myself, if I was on a team or serving under principals who just really believed in our students and staff, the synergy was dynamic. And then sadly, there were years when didn't happen. And so, you know, I attempt to set the tone for my staff. And when you when it's happening, when teachers believe in themselves, set high expectations for students, just amazing things happen. And it's contagious, you want to keep going for the kids, for your colleagues, or your parents or neighbors is just so rewarding. And I think that that sentiment of collective efficacy ties back to even like my high school teachers and my experiences and how they made me feel. So I think that's something that teachers need to hear right now, to know their worth to know their importance and their contributions to society, but also that the more we can leverage one another, and build that collective efficacy, you know, it's, it's just going to help impact the world.

Lindsay Persohn: 16:19

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And as you were talking about that, I also thought of, unfortunately, some negative examples, right. So I think whenever you walk into a school, you also know in that culture isn't quite there are when they're still building it. And I talked about this with my pre service teachers, when they go out for job interviews, I remind them that they're interviewing the school to, they want to be in a place where there is this sort of strength and collective thinking, and there's trust in one another, because I wholeheartedly believe, and I've seen it play out over and over again, that whenever you have that collective efficacy, and whenever you have that strong fabric of collaboration, it really feels like anything is possible. You know, it feels like a world of possibilities. Whereas I think in some places, for a lot of teachers, there are so many impossibilities right now, it's just wonderful to be a part of a place where you do have the spirit of possibility.

Michelle Townley: 17:11

Yeah, and I think it's, it's an especially important message for leaders right now as well, you know, teachers are needed so badly, that really, you know, I recognize that they could choose where they want to work. And so, you know, what kind of environment are we creating at our school that makes them want to continue to choose Willow oak, or or to continue to stay in their profession, period? Because we know that's, that's a challenge, too. And I think it gets translated down to the children. They feel it, I think, you know, we're doing a pretty good job. We're only in year two here. But I believe that most of my kids would tell you that every day is a great day to be a bluejay. You know, they've kind of bought in to our culture piece. But they know, like, the kids know that they're important. They can sense how you make them feel. And I think when, when the teachers feel respected and cared for, then it translates to the students as well. And so I think they know that, you know, we love when we tell them all the time, but but they, you know, it just creates for a better school culture.

Lindsay Persohn: 18:23

Yeah, and I, you know, it also makes me wonder why that becomes so challenging or, or how we overcome some of those challenges in spaces where culture maybe isn't the most positive thing that a school has going on for them. And I think in my mind, one reason this is challenging is because it feels a little bit intangible. Right? It's it is all about people and relationships. And while of course, we can always improve our skills in those areas. I do think it's something that some people, you know, they've brought with them since their childhood, as you've described in some of your past experiences, and felt that felt that sense of belonging and that connectedness to their place, where they go to school, where they spend most of their time, most of their waking hours, certainly. So that is such an important message for leaders. You're absolutely right. And I'm so glad that you highlighted that, because I think that that is such a strong message for school leaders right now. We do need support to keep teachers in the field of teaching, and to recruit new, great teachers who have children at the center of everything that they do. And so I just really appreciate you highlighting those messages for us, Michelle,

Michelle Townley: 19:31

you're so welcome. And I think it takes leaders to just maybe think of another piece as well, like, you know, we're gonna make mistakes sometimes too. And so, gosh, I just I made an absolutely terrible mistake. Last week, like I was just kicking myself over and over again about something and I did it out, you know, being rushed and out of haste. But I think even as leaders you have to model for your teachers and your students. You know, when when you mess Up, Fess up. So I really had to, you know, have a talk with my teacher and apologize for handling something in haste where it should have been given more attention. And, you know, we're not perfect. And so by admitting that, and you also build a little bit of transparency and trust, you know, you might make a withdrawal because your actions were not favorable. But I think when when you can apologize and model that, then then teachers know that that's okay, too. And that they may have to do it with their students sometimes, or, you know, I may have to do it with the students sometimes, too. But that's, that's part of that human element to that gives us an opportunity to, you know, learn and grow and know what we would do differently the next time. So all of that builds to that collective efficacy, too, because you have to feel comfortable enough to admit a mistake or a shortcoming. And then be willing to correct it for the good of the team.

Lindsay Persohn: 20:59

So when I think creating that sense of culture, also, it helps us all to experience a sense of grace, right. And I think that we all need that at times, we need to know that we can, we can move forward from bad calls. So yeah, I appreciate that story as well.

Michelle Townley: 21:18

I think I would just like to share too, that, you know, my own children have been great teachers, for me, as well, as they learn and grow through the years, you know, being a mom and an educator. And, and I had the good fortune of they were with me at my school for several years. And just to be able to have that experience, I think, you know, has also shaped my thinking. I'm also married to a teacher, my husband's been a high school teacher for nearly 25 years as well. And so the dialogue around teaching and learning and school and running into your students everywhere you go, we were even on a cruise ship and in Mexico one year, and we're standing in line to get our pictures and some ways like Mr. Townley is that you and so you know, you just it just underlines and puts a huge exclamation point on the relationships. And so it's just so pivotal. And I wish there was a way to spend some more time on that. And for pre service teachers, as well as pre service administrators, because it's just, it's just so critical for all of your work, and it must be taken care of, you know, our number one focus, obviously, is is on helping students become literate and problem solvers. But at the end of the day, it's hard to get to that unless you've built that trusting relationship.

Lindsay Persohn: 22:47

Absolutely. And talking with you today has just really refreshed for me this sort of awesome sense of purpose around what education is and what it can be. So I really want to I want to thank you for that. And I know this conversation is going to be meaningful to many teachers out there as well as our pre service teachers and our school leaders. So, Michelle, I thank you so much for your time today and I thank you for your tremendous contributions to the world of education.

Michelle Townley: 23:16

Thank you, Lindsay. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

Lindsay Persohn: 23:20

Mrs. Michelle Townley is known for her work in schools, supporting teachers and school leaders coordinating curriculum and supporting school operations. Mrs. Townley has worked in public education for nearly 25 years. She has served as a classroom teacher, Dean of Students, Assistant Principal and principal and in a number of district wide roles as director of literacy, regional assistant superintendent and as Acting Chief Academic Officer. Throughout her career, Michelle has focused on promoting a positive learning and working environment for students and staff. She provides the vision and leadership to develop and administer educational programs that optimize student potential and enhance learning processes for all students and provides a safe and successful school culture for students, staff, parents and community. Mr. Stanley is a two time graduate of the University of South Florida, majoring in speech communication and educational studies as an undergraduate and educational leadership and policy studies in her master's degree program where she was recognized as Outstanding Graduate Student of the Year. Michelle is a Leadership Fellow in the Florida Department of Education Dr. Brian Dazzler Institute, a leadership Florida education class three member and a member of the Florida Department of Education instructional leadership team Institute. Most recently, Michelle took the opportunity to fulfill her career long goal of opening a new school in her hometown as principal. For the good of all students classroom caffeine aims to energize education research and practice. If this show provides you with things to think about, don't keep it as Secret, subscribe, like and review this podcast through your preferred podcast provider. I also invite you to connect with the show through our website at WWW dot classroom caffeine.com where you can learn more about each guest. Find transcripts for many episodes, explore episode topics using our tagging feature, support podcast, research through our survey, request an episode topic or a potential guest or share your own questions that we might respond to through the show. You could also leave us a voice message or a text message at 1-941-212-0949. We would love to hear from you. As always, I raised my mug to you teachers. Thanks for joining me