Classroom Caffeine

A Conversation with Jenifer J. Schneider

December 08, 2020 Lindsay Persohn Season 1 Episode 5
Classroom Caffeine
A Conversation with Jenifer J. Schneider
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Jenifer Jasinksi Schneider talks to us about children’s writing with multimodal and digital tools, process drama, children’s literature, and community-engaged literacy experiences. Jenifer is the author of The Inside, Outside, & Upside Downs of Children’s Literature, an open-access ebook that explores critical issues in children’s and young adult literature through extended discourse and integrated digital resources. She is a Fulbright Scholar who studied Irish children’s literature, reading programs, and family literacy initiatives across different Irish community contexts at the Waterford Institute of Technology in Ireland. Jenifer is a Professor of Literacy Studies at the University of South Florida.

To cite this episode:
Persohn, L. (Host). (2020, Dec. 8). A conversation with Jenifer J. Schneider. (Season 1, No. 5) [Audio podcast episode]. In Classroom Caffeine Podcast series. https://www.classroomcaffeine.com/episodes. DOI: 10.5240/51B0-2F56-5332-91AA-43C5-E

Connect with Classroom Caffeine at www.classroomcaffeine.com or on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Lindsay Persohn:

Education Research has a problem. The work of brilliant education researchers often doesn't reach the practice of brilliant teachers. Classroom Caffeine is here to help. Each week I invite a top education researcher to sit down and talk with teachers about what they have learned from years of study. This week, Dr. Jenifer Jasinski Schneider talks to us about children's writing with multimodal and digital tools, community engaged literacy experiences, and what really matters in education. Jenifer is known for her work in process drama, multimodal composing, and children's literature. Dr. Schneider is a professor of literacy Studies at the University of South Florida. For more information about our guest, stay tuned at the end of this episode. So pour a cup of your favorite morning drink. And join me your host Lindsay Persohn. For classroom caffeine research to energize your teaching practice. Today. I'm here with Dr. Jenifer Jasinski Schneider. Jenifer, I have just three questions for you today and hopes that you will share some of your knowledge and experience with teachers. Welcome.

Jenifer Schneider:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Lindsay Persohn:

Glad to have you, Jenifer, from your own experiences and education, will you share with us one or two moments that inform your thinking now?

Jenifer Schneider:

Well, throughout my experience, there have been some big events that have happened that have shaped my work. And I think education. And one of the first ones that happened to me personally, was when I came to USF and there was a children's literature conference, that conference where I was able to bring authors and illustrators, well known authors and illustrators to USF bring about 1500 children every year to meet them and interact with them. And those were the times in the 90s in the late 90s and early 2000s, where that was really prevalent kind of interaction that was happening. The very first person that I brought was Eloise Greenfield. And from then I had Floyd Cooper, I had so many people that I could go on and on with the list of people that came to USF. And that was a really powerful experience and learning the insides of the children's literature industry and understanding the connection, and also seen on the faces how the kids would react. So that event went for about 20 years until the economy crashed, and then schools could no longer afford to bring children. And then the curriculum started getting much more constrained. And teachers were not allowed to take children on field trips. And so the evolution of that conference kind of moved away from the old fashioned model of bringing people in spaces to the next phase of my career, which is really important introduction into new technologies. Now, I come from the old, I literally taught computers, where you were teaching kids, here's how you turn it on. Here's a floppy disk of Carmen San Diego, in Oregon Trail. So I taught the very first waves of computers in elementary schools. But when we started then working with technology and laptops, we had a laptop initiative and things like that in the university. That was the next phase of my evolution. And I was all along always focused on composing, and children's composing, and children's books and reading. But the integration of technologies and what that did for literacy was really earth shattering for me. And I think that was the next phase of development for my personal research agenda, and also my work with kids. So we've moved into online spaces now and moviemaking and using digital literacies as a composing tool. So I think those are the two kind of major events that happen in my career along the way that kind of come together.

Lindsay Persohn:

Thinking about technology in schools, that's just such a huge topic with so many different arms and legs. And you know, it really has become such a field in and of itself. I think focusing on how students use technology is such an interesting way to frame writing.

Jenifer Schneider:

And in the beginning, it wasn't so pervasive, there was really a limit to if schools had laptops, and if they did, they'd have a laptop cart, and then you couldn't get the cart because another teacher had it checked out. And that is still the case in many different places. But it's also the case that many schools have a lot more technology now. And so to features have come along with the development and the more accessible tools what we've seen in the last few months with COVID. And the the demand of the move to online spaces, has pushed people in ways. But it's also made us realize it's not the end. And it's not the end all be all, it is a tool, another tool that we have. And so it gets added to the repertoire does it replace, I'm still a paper pencil person, I'm still a book person. And so all of those composing process coming together it you know, technology can make it easier, but it doesn't, it doesn't change what you have to do to compose and get those ideas out and do the thinking through it.

Lindsay Persohn:

So Jennifer, that leads naturally to the next question, what would you like teachers to know about your research?

Jenifer Schneider:

Like, I think what is important for me the message that think undergirds everything is to really pay attention to the individual child and the messages that they're trying to communicate. Whether that is a scribble on a page, or beginning words, looking at those ideas, and really getting to know each and every child, all the way up through the adolescents and adults that we might work with, and understanding what each person brings, and the risks that they take when they put words on a page or images on a document and put forth some idea into the world. So understanding that risk and understanding the value. And then also on the other side, in the in the lonely little space of a classroom. How do we access other audiences, so that our kids are having authentic communication events, where they're not just talking to the kid right next to them, or the teacher in the space? But what else can we use literacy to do? What actions can we take? And How can kids and I'm talking little all the way up? How can they actually use literacy, to advocate for themselves to advocate for the world that they want, and kind of have that those messages behind them? So that's I think what I'd like teachers to understand is, we get really bogged down in the standards and the curriculum and the expectations and the pass rates and things like that. And we're losing sight of what are we really trying to do here, we really need people, all of these people that are entrusted to us to learn how to communicate.

Lindsay Persohn:

I know you have done a lot of work with digital composing, and children. And I'm hoping that you might also share a bit more with us about what you've learned from those experiences, and what those many hundreds, maybe 1000s of kids have taught you about about writing in a digital world.

Jenifer Schneider:

When I first started working with kids in in using filmmaking as a way of communicating a way of composing, I understood and knew that there's writing underneath those visual images, their script development, their camera shots and angles, composing and framing a scene is part of telling the story or presenting the information that those are all meaning making strategies, I could see it but other people couldn't. And in the beginning phases, I didn't have the ability to make those connections, so people could as clearly see it. Moving along, I had some intervening events that happened, such as attending a film camp at the Tampa theatre, so that I could see a structure of a week long camp, that I could then embed in my courses, and I could embed it in the work that I did with kids. So it was a constrained time period, with a process inter inter laid in there. And it became a much more doable event that I thought teachers could then see and take up, I still find that it is a challenge and that I don't see teachers doing as much with filmmaking or the art space sides of literacy. I don't see as much of the putting on plays or reader's theater, or creating any kind of art along with the composing that people do because I think time and also people don't feel themselves that they are of the highest level of art to actually lead it. I'm not a filmmaker. I have no training behind it. But I can understand how camera shots and angles work I can understand composing a script with a beginning, a middle and an end. And I can see the power that lies in what the kids are doing when they can compose Tik Tok videos, memes and when they do something that is meaningful, engaging and engaging to them, it is a different kind of pathway into literacy than when they're in analyzing some primary sources from, you know, World War Two, I think there's a, there's something in between that we can do to get these tools to use for engagement and motivation, and then also to turn kids on to these other passive learning that might be missing from many places. Well,

Lindsay Persohn:

I think that maybe the big point here to convey to teachers is that writing doesn't always look like pencil and paper writing looks like composing and a multimodal kind of way. And you know, when you talk about camera shots and angles, that's very similar to what we would think of more traditionally in writing as tone right or, or, you know, some of those next level writing elements that we might talk about with students. It's just in a multimodal kind of way.

Jenifer Schneider:

Right. I think when you envision what happens in your brain, when you're composing a basic narrative, you if you're thinking of the characters, if you're trying to describe the scenery, if you're trying to use your senses, that kind of process that happens when you're putting words on a page is it it happens in the same way, with multimodal sources. It's just out of your body, it's not just inside of your mind. Now it's made with your hands, or its movement through some materials, right? Assembling little Lego structures, or creating something with playdough. Put something physical in front of you that then you can manipulate does it have to be perfect? No. But it takes a lot of those images and ideas and thoughts and puts them outside into another space. And once they're out there, that aesthetic object, and I'm not talking perfect, right high art, but that objects him and lead to other pathways of learning and development of the plot the structure, the information, whatever it is you're trying to produce. I think that is really powerful learning that we can tap into now, do we want to do it for every single assignment? Do we also need other kinds of reading and writing strategies? Of course we do. Right? There's only certain ways you can learn certain things. But having at least some access to these modes would be very helpful for many different students. When

Lindsay Persohn:

I think for anyone who feels intimidated by technology, or like they don't know enough, or won't be able to be successful, I think thinking of those parallels and processes is so helpful, because we can rest on what we already know, and grow into new ways of thinking about those same ideas. And I think that that really kind of takes that, that edge off of a new idea where you can say, I already know something about this.

Jenifer Schneider:

Yeah, I think it originally and I'm talking 2005. I'm the one dragging laptops out from USF with cameras, and cords and extension cords. And I literally would go with five, six suitcases check them out and go to different schools, and take the equipment in and leave with it. You know, the technology has progressed such that most people have a smartphone, a lot of kids do, even if they don't have data plans. There's some kind of filming element, a little bit of camera, and that has taken some of the fear away. I don't think it's taking the fear away from teachers. Right? Right, it's taken, it's put it's created more access to the tools. But teachers are still a little bit hesitant sometimes to use these new devices. And to, you know, allow cameras and things like that in the classroom for different purposes. So it's a matter of I am very big, I am not let kids loose and do whatever you want. I am very big about choices within constraints. And whenever I lead any of these projects, it's pretty rigid. It's we're doing this today, and you're all going to do this and you're using these planning sheets. And we're we're moving through a process where give them access to the information and give them choice. Like I said, choice within constraints. So a teacher can really rein back those choices. So the teacher feels comfortable. And the teacher can also open up the choices so that kids can move more freely. And the concern that often happens is kids are going to goof around. And that that's okay. In that's you know, they're going to goof around anytime in any other way. When they're enjoying something they goof around, or when they're really off task and bored. So I rather have them enjoying and learning something and goof around, then they're goofing around because they're taking another test on a computer, right? So it's a better way to use those digital tools that are right there in front of us. Many of those tools are getting put into our classrooms so that kids can take another test and I'd much prefer that we use those tools so kids could compose on topics of their choice and learn something about the world and communicate with people outside of that immediate space.

Lindsay Persohn:

Right, and so the idea of the teacher really having some control over the process, while the students maintain control of their ideas, I think is is such an important point for teachers to get from what you're saying. That that, you know, you can maintain some of that, that feeling teachers like to have, you know, that's not total chaos. But at the same time, you can give students that freedom to explore ideas that they're interested in.

Jenifer Schneider:

I think that's really the point of it. You know, if you create an atmosphere in your classroom of respect, and, you know, kids are really diligent and working hard and working together, because you introduce camera, it doesn't mean they're going to lose all sense of themselves and forget where they are. Right now, if you already had a space that was chaotic, a camera will just capture the chaos that already existed. And you know, how you introduce any new thing. It's really up to the teacher, right to set that tone.

Lindsay Persohn:

So once again, leading right to my next question, given the challenges of today's educational climate, what message do you want teachers to hear?

Jenifer Schneider:

Hang in there, we really, we really need, I can't, I can't think in my lifetime, that we've needed teachers more than we need them today. And we really need good teachers that can hang in there can adapt, can hold on to those traditions and values and things that we love. But also look forward and say, Okay, I can do this differently. Now. I think we need to recruit in people that have that same passion and adaptability. But we also need teachers to be different than they have been in the past, I think I'll speak for myself and the people around me, I feel that many teachers are good citizens, and we do what we're told. And we execute well, and we are really good students ourselves. And teachers need a little bit more of an edge to themselves in these certain in the context that we find ourselves in. And when we see testing come through, and we know it's not good, or we see a program, a curriculum come through. And in our guts, you know, it's leaving kids out, or it's creating a sense of literacy, that is not one of equity and access, then that's when the teacher has to wear up like a, you know, grizzly bear, and say, No way. Not here, not now, we're done. And I think I see changes now, with teachers, you know, enough is enough, we have done, you know, this COVID thing is completely just a split between before and after of what's happened. But also with that, George Floyd and Black Lives Matter was something that shattered me as a person and as an educator, and I thought, what can I do? And what can we do? And to me literacy, and access to power, access to systems and how we navigate these systems. Not every kid's gonna grow up to be a teacher, and sit around and think about books all day and writing all day. That's not what people do, they're going to work in the world. And how can we create through literacy, kids that have understand their power and control, understand how they can navigate these systems, and make the changes that we need? As a society as a people as schools as teachers? It's a lot of weight to put on teachers. But I feel why why do people become teachers in the first place? You know, so that's an easy job. Well, those that think it's an easy job, they don't last very long. That's right ones that really stay and, and stay in it. No, it's the most powerful job in the world, it leads to changing people's lives it when we do it well, and I think looking forward to that we need more of it. And we need different ways of working with families to this, this is brought in some family literacy issues that I see that we have not really addressed in teacher education. You know, little pockets of people have done it, but we really need some widespread examination of how we're dealing with family, we do and internet access all kinds of things, you know, stay with us, right? And you good ones, pass it around and share your wealth and knowledge with others because we need teaching teaching pods, you know, like little whale pods, we need teacher pods that are really good and good functioning units that work with each other and learn from each other. And that would be amazing.

Lindsay Persohn:

And perhaps COVID is a way for teachers to re identify as a community of like minded people who are up for the challenge. So you know, as much doom and gloom as there has been in the news and in the world lately. I do think there there there are some ways to really tap into some hopeful kinds of plans for the future. So, thank you so much for sharing a hopeful message with us today. Jenifer, thank you for your time. And thank you for your contributions to education.

Jenifer Schneider:

Thank you for letting me think about the big things that matter to me. I appreciate it. I really do.

Lindsay Persohn:

Thank you. Dr. Jenifer Janinski Schneider's research focuses on arts based approaches to literacy education in which aspects of process drama and children's literature support children's symbolic development and meaning making strategies. Through community engaged projects and design based experiments. Jenifer's research addresses the changing set of strategies that children use to compose and communicate through print based and multimodal texts. For 20 years, Dr. Schneider was the director of an annual literature conference for children and her work with authors, illustrators, and children led to the development of the inside outside and upside downs of children's literature, an open access ebook that explores critical issues in children's and young adult literature, through extended discourse and integrated digital resources. The book has over 80,000 downloads. She is also the lead author and curator of the multimodal data analysis collection through the USF library. This collection of products demonstrates different methodologies for analyzing multimodal texts at the interstices of literature, art, communication, theater, film studies and education. Jenifer's interest in children's literature led to a Fulbright Scholar Award in Ireland, where she studied Irish children's literature and reading programs, as well as family literacy initiatives across different Irish community contexts at the Waterford Institute of Technology. Dr. Schneider is currently engaged in a series of design based studies, in which she explores children's composing strategies, digital literacies, and pre service teachers instructional development through community engaged experiences. Jenifer is a professor of literacy Studies at the University of South Florida. For the good of all students, good research should inform good practice and vice versa. listeners are invited to respond to our guests. Learn more about our guests research, and suggest a topic for an upcoming episode through this podcast website at classroomcaffeine.com. If you've learned something today, or just enjoyed listening, please subscribe to this podcast. I raised my mug to you teachers. Thanks for joining me