WEBVTT 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:03.919 Welcome to Queer Voices. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:09.439 This show and podcast have been on KPFT 90.1 FM in Houston since the 70s. 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:23.359 I am Brett Cullum, and this week I start off with non-binary actor Leonda Unadi Lewis Nyall, who is known as Sheriff Santiago in Netflix's supernatural mystery comedy Wednesday. 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:26.719 They are in the new drama from queer as folk Russell T. 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:28.480 Davies called Tiptoe. 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:33.600 It also stars Alan Cummings, and it starts this Friday streaming on Stars. 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:42.399 Then Matthew Williams talks with Michael Robinson about the Houston Cinema Arts Festival, which lasts from October 1st through the 11th. 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:56.320 And finally, I discuss Gloria Stein with Houston actress Deborah Hope, who is directing a play to honor her memory called Gloria Alife, which runs in Cyprus October 2nd through the 18th. 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:59.679 Queer Voices starts now. 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.319 Hi there, this is Brett Cullum. 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:16.239 And known as Sheriff Rita Santiago in Netflix's supernatural mystery comedy, Wednesday, we have non-binary actor and writer Luanta Unari Lewis Meow. 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:17.280 Is that even close? 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:18.879 Yeah, that was really close. 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:20.560 Okay, good. 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:25.760 Well, they have landed a new role on the chilling UK drama Tiptoe. 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:28.400 And this is one I have been waiting for for months. 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.879 Because I think it already aired in the UK, right? 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:31.680 I mean, months ago. 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:33.359 Yeah, I think it aired June. 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:34.000 June? 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:34.879 Yeah, it was June. 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:35.439 Yeah, it was June. 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:42.239 Well, finally, we found out Stars has it, and they are gonna put it out Friday, October 2nd. 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:47.920 So Unadi is a creative force and a passionate LGBTQ plus advocate. 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.359 So you bring a lot of intensity to every role that you take on. 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.040 So I just wanted to welcome you. 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.599 Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me, obviously. 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:56.959 Yeah, absolutely. 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:57.519 It's a pleasure. 00:01:57.599 --> 00:01:58.480 My my absolute pleasure. 00:01:58.560 --> 00:01:59.439 I'm really excited to be here. 00:01:59.680 --> 00:01:59.920 Yeah. 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:01.840 You know, your name is so beautiful. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:02.879 Where does it come from? 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:04.239 Does it have a meaning? 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:10.240 Yeah, so my mom gave me the name Luanda, which in Zulu means the family is growing bigger and bigger. 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:20.560 And then my grandmother gave me the second name, Unati, which means Christ is with us, or rather Ungulungulu is which uh is with us if you want to be more decolonial about its definition. 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:22.800 Uh Umbingangi is with us. 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:29.360 And then Lewis, uh, I'm separated from my ex-husband, so we double barreled his name first, my name last. 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:31.520 And Yao means foot. 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.120 Clan of the foot. 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:35.199 Alright, got a lot going on in there. 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:37.199 Yeah, there's just a lot going on. 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:45.360 I mean, uh my grand landed up spending raising me when I was quite young, a little bit more so than my parents did while they were sort of like working on establishing themselves. 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:46.960 So everybody calls me one Nati. 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:47.759 Well great. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:56.879 Now, this news show on Stars, October 2nd, I keep plugging in because uh it's created by Russell Davies, who everybody knows as the creator of Queer's Folk. 00:02:57.039 --> 00:02:57.199 Yeah. 00:02:57.439 --> 00:02:57.680 Basically. 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.960 And and of course he revived Doctor Who and all this other stuff. 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:12.639 But Tiptoe, it's a story about two neighbors, one gay played by Alan Cummings, and one straight played by David Morrissey, and they kind of have a feud and it gets it gets pretty dark. 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:13.360 Is that right? 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:15.599 It gets it gets pretty dark, yeah. 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:24.080 I think it's I think Russell is with this particular project really just trying to sound a rallying cry um in the times that we kind of live in. 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:31.599 And I think I think, you know, often as a writer you you can write you write what you know and you write from your experience. 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:37.919 And I think that right now in the commun even in the queer community, there are these kind of festering divisions beginning to grow. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:48.319 And it's just a reminder that, hey gang, you know, just because you're uh slightly more socially accepted at the minute, that can change really quickly. 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.439 Those those rights were hard won, but they can take them away. 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.800 And when they finish with our trans siblings, they'll come for you. 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:57.120 Um and it'll it'll do you know what I mean? 00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.199 Yeah, there is there is no safety here. 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:11.120 You can't be the model queer because at the end of the day, you'll be queer and they'll and you'll be other who are stronger as a united community than a divided one. 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:16.639 And I think Russell just does this so masterfully that he A makes it really compelling television. 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:17.920 It moves at a pace. 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:25.680 And he touches on so many relevant components to this conversation and but also just finds the humanity of these people. 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:34.079 Um, because I think it really isn't that, you know, it's it's not our differences, really, it's our similarities regardless of which side of the conversation you lie on. 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:34.560 But yeah. 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:41.040 Well, Nadi, I am in the US and the transgender community is just completely under attack here. 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:49.199 It's I do a segment at the end of the show where we talk about news, and I get so tired of talking about legislation now that is being put against them. 00:04:49.519 --> 00:05:01.279 And then I read a story where the BBC canceled RuPaul's Drag Race UK, and I saw like some of the contestants on there saying, you know, it's really bad for transgender individuals in the UK as well. 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:02.160 Is that the case? 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:03.439 What's happening with the UK? 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:15.040 So in the UK, as um a black South African um who obviously grew up in a country that was colonized by the United Kingdom, I know that obviously Amerible kind of history of division. 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:18.160 I mean, division is putting a very low point on it. 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:23.360 But in my it from my experience, uh the UK has always been hair off of that, right? 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:39.680 That's where, you know, like if if something is happening in the States, there is some other ch weird, sneaky, eurocratic way, polite way, the brutality of polite violence kind of way that it is happening here. 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:48.800 So uh I think with the EHRC legislating against essentially the free movement of trans individuals in public spaces, really. 00:05:48.879 --> 00:06:08.319 Like, you know, you can call it a bathroom ban all you like, but actually what it's actually what it's tantamount to is the legislation, the free movement of trans folks in and around uh the United Kingdom by essentially removing them from public life and saying that you you have no safety to do one of the most basic things that a human being can do in with dignity. 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.639 And it's not safe for for anyone, and I don't think they're gonna stop there, you know? 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:15.600 Like I don't think they're necessarily going to stop there. 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:29.519 And you know, I've got trans friends who are struggling to find housing, and they've, you know, landlords are randomly without even looking at their application properly, pulling out of of renting to them the moment they hear that there could be trans people staying. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:34.560 It's it's it's just getting a little bit a little bit very, very, very unsafe. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.079 And I think part of that is also, you know, what's been happening in the state. 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:55.279 You know, these these two things work kind of hand in hand, in that now there is permission, it is permissible to punch down, to to be bigoted and and ultimately harm our trans siblings because they are not being seen as human, they're being dehumanized, right? 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.199 So yeah, it's it's a shame. 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:58.399 It's more than a shame. 00:06:58.480 --> 00:06:59.920 It's it's it's terrifying. 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:22.879 I think that these conversations are really, really important to have, and Russell does an incredible job of humanizing people that really most people only have an experience of through the lens of the media, through the lens that they are targeting children, or you know, that they're mentally unwell, or whatever the or whatever the nasty rhetoric is. 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:32.399 Russell goes, No, actually, this is just a human being who like you wants joy to to have a roof over their head, survive, love, live, laugh. 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.319 Can't believe I quoted that film. 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:35.279 Yeah. 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:38.000 It's a good one though. 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.800 It definitely sounds like it's a time for Russell Davies. 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:43.120 And it sounds like it's time for a new statement from him. 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:51.680 I mean, and he's definitely the one that I think that I had never seen the queer community represented as well until I saw Queer as Folk and his idea. 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:59.040 And then this whole idea of him bringing the queer identities into Doctor Who and making it kind of a little bit more that. 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:03.439 And then this particular piece, Tiptoe, I'm so excited to see what he says next. 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:05.199 What do you actually play in Tiptoe? 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:05.920 Oh yes. 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:08.480 We've we wax it lyrical about the politics. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:14.959 But um, I played Judy, the bar manager of the Spit and Polish, which is owned by Alan Cummings character. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:18.399 And I am the kind of caretaker of the space. 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:33.600 You know, you you always get like quite familiar with like the bar manager at like your local queer bar, like always making sure that people are getting home safe, taking care of the family, checking in on people, the found family of these lovely people who have found themselves at the spit and polish. 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:42.320 And it was just such a joy to be able to play like a lesbian, like dike, like a proper lesbian, you know what I mean? 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:46.159 Like just a lesbian who loves to garden and listen to heavy metal. 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:54.000 It was just, it's the first time that I was playing somebody queer in that in a very direct way. 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:58.960 Um, and it was just really liberating to just bring that part of myself to a role. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:07.200 She's a lot of fun, she's a lot of laughs, and she's a lot of heart, which I think like after the conversation we've just had, we must remember that this is still Russell T. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:10.000 Davis, it's still gonna be hilarious the whole way through. 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:13.279 Yeah, it's gonna be tough, but it's gonna be funny and it's gonna have bite. 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:13.840 Yeah. 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:18.960 Well, I can't get away from the fact that you were in Wednesday on Netflix. 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:20.639 What was that like? 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:22.080 I mean, come on. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:23.440 It's it's a great show. 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.399 You know when you're just like working on one of those juggernauts, right? 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:36.320 It's just such a big, epic machine that sometimes it can be really intense, and sometimes I can be quite removed from it from periods like I'm going back to shoot next week. 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:45.440 But it's just been such a joy to work with people that I've admired my whole sort of life, you know, people who inspired me to do this job. 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:54.720 I remember watching the likes of, you know, Steve Bishemi and, you know, Winona Ryder and Katherine Zedder Jones and Joanna Lumley, and the list goes on, right? 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:58.799 These are people who who I saw on my screen when I was growing up. 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:04.799 And it's just such an honor and a privilege to get to to share space with them and learn from them, really, more than anything else. 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.919 I would be so nervous standing across from some of those names. 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:13.519 I would just be like, Am I doing a scene with Patsy from Mab Found right now? 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:14.080 You know? 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:15.200 I know, I know. 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:20.879 And I think I get asked that question a lot, but actually, like at the end of the day, you're so you're s you've been hired to also do a job, right? 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:23.919 Like you you you you did the interview, quote unquote, the audition. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:32.559 You're it is exciting, it is nerve-wracking, I'm not gonna lie, like I'm not uh made of stone, but at a certain point you just gotta get in and get the job done. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.759 Well, not you just did a series with Ellen Cummings, so I mean, go on Yeah. 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:46.080 You're not gonna be starstruck that easily, but I wanted to ask you, how did you decide to identify as non-binary? 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:49.200 How does that factor into your identity? 00:10:49.519 --> 00:11:01.360 My identity, I think that like for a really long time, even since like early high school, I kind of always felt that I didn't really fit the box of girl completely. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:07.279 Um, and I felt like I was forcing myself into it or people were forcing my me into it. 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:19.200 And at that time, giving away my age, but I mean like I'm 38 now, like uh, you know, so we're talking what, like 25-ish, 26-less years ago. 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:20.879 There wasn't really that the language. 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.480 I didn't have the the language of non-binariness. 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:45.120 You know, you were either tomboy or you were you were just a masculine girl or and you know, and you couldn't colour outside of the lines and explore even what femininity means on the on the one spectrum of the binary, all the way to, you know, non-binariness all the way to masculinity, sorry. 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:51.120 So I think as I encountered this language, I was like, oh yeah, that makes absolute sense. 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.600 That's what I that's what I feel, that's what I'm talking about. 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:59.519 And it took me a really long time actually to be able to feel like I could own it and feel like I could be a part of that community. 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:06.559 But through some like, you know, growth and a bit of self-work, I began to to accept that and really kind of claim it. 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:08.320 And it and it feels like it fits. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:13.519 I also need to say that, you know, part of it is also a deeply political decision. 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:20.240 I think that as somebody who has been socialized as a black woman my entire for at least 30, I came out as non-binary when I was 33. 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.960 So socialized as a black woman for 33 years of life. 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:37.840 I think that the the box of woman, as ideal woman as it is as is understood, doesn't really have a place for me as a black immigrant plus size, dark-skinned, natural-haired, black quote-unquote woman, right? 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:48.960 And and in my even in my non-binary non-binariness, I exist in the tension point of not being able to negate the years of black womanhood that I identify with closely. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:13:00.320 My my mother, my grandmother, my aunts, my uncles, my my my friends, my sisters, my family, women across the across the globe who I connect with and relate to based on that. 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:13.120 And yet there is still this feeling in me and this compulsion in me and this inner knowing that I exist beyond that and I want to get outside of it, both spiritually and internally, but also politically as an understanding. 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.159 And I think and I think it can I think non-binary can hold all of that. 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:16.559 Yeah. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:17.840 I think it can h all of that. 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:27.039 And so that's why I relate to that's that's how I identify in this way, because I think it allows me to move in the world in a way that I can claim. 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:27.519 Yeah. 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:29.120 Well, how did you get into acting? 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:30.159 Oh, it's one of those stories. 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:31.279 I've been doing it since I was a kid. 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.759 I've been doing it since I was a child. 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:34.480 And at St. 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.120 George's Prep, I was I was did all the school musicals. 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.720 I was Baloo in the jungle book and all sorts of things like that. 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:45.200 I and then my parents just kind of realized I was dreadful at school. 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.840 Not dreadful, just like really bad at math. 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.759 I can't count, and I'm fine with that. 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:55.279 So my parents just realized that, oh, this was more than this was more than a hobby. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:05.840 It was like it was it was more of a calling um and something that I really enjoyed and excelled at with uh not with not without trying, but just really took to and really found joy in. 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:19.600 So throughout my life I went sort of back and forth between, oh, I want to be um, you know, in a more technical role, or I want to be behind the camera, or I'm even dabbled in advertising for a while when I was like, I'll never make money as an actor. 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.960 But then I I was like, no, none of this makes me happy. 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:24.720 This is the one thing that I enjoyed doing. 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:26.879 So I put what is the quote? 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:32.080 I stuck my nerve to the sticking place, I put something to the sticking place, and and just went for it. 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.399 And you've got to be a little bit Delulu to do this job. 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:36.159 And I stay Delulu to this day. 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:36.559 Yeah. 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.320 You've obviously done big projects. 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.480 I mean, you've been on a couple of Netflix productions, you've been part of the Doctor Who universe. 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:44.240 Now you're working, you know, with Russell T. 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:48.639 Davies, you've got obviously you're coming back for the next Wednesday season, is that right? 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:49.120 Yeah. 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:49.519 Yeah. 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:49.840 Yeah. 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:50.960 So you got a lot going on. 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.279 What else is in the in the hopper for you? 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:54.879 I'm writing a lot at the moment. 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.679 I'm trying to finish a couple of several things. 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:02.960 Actually, at the minute, I've got a play in the works and I've got a feature in the works and a couple of shorts in the works. 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:10.960 And then we see, and then we see, I'm excited to be a part of a workshop of a queer play called Lover Mother. 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:11.840 Father? 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.120 Look at me being terrible at PR. 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:20.480 I do it all the time. 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.440 Yeah, my brain is cheese at the minute. 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:25.759 It is fully called Lover Worker Mother. 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:32.559 I'm really excited to be doing that and working with some people that I've really exp respected on the queer scene, but also just as artists as well. 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.000 Um, Mary Malone, M. 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:37.279 Pendergast, um, and then create an incredible creative team. 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:43.759 So I'm really looking forward to help nurture that story and take it further along its journey. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.320 And then and then we see, we we rest a bit. 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:51.360 But I mean, you know, I'm really excited for this to come out on the 2nd of October, and it'll be fine. 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:52.000 I'll book something. 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:52.720 I'll book the next thing. 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:54.320 You see, you've got to stay Delulu. 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:56.879 Yes, no, I Delulu is my brand. 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:57.679 We're there. 00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:58.480 No problem. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:05.120 But yes, stars, October 2nd, Russell Davies, Tiptoe, uh, Alan Cummings, David Morsey, and of course, Hugh. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:06.080 You're in it. 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:10.320 So we're off with like a group of like incredible, incredible actors. 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.159 We become such far fast friends. 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:20.080 I just think it was the the beauty of working with Key Street Productions in general was they were just such a class act. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:21.440 Well, I'm so excited for you. 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:22.240 I can't wait to see it. 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.240 I've been stalking this show since it came out. 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:25.679 I'm like, I'm like, where is it? 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:26.960 When is it coming to America? 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:28.240 When are they gonna actually show it? 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:28.960 When can I watch it? 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:30.639 Yes, I'm excited. 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.240 So thank you, Bianca Unadi Louis Niaw. 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:40.000 I am so excited for you, and thank you for talking about all of the politics and the non-binary issues and things like that. 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:40.960 I think it's so important. 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.440 It is such a big part of our community right now. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.840 And I just wanted to give people an idea of how similar it is in the year. 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.440 I feel like maybe I can run away to London and escape all of this, but no, you can't. 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:54.960 It's kind of peak, yeah. 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.559 People are trying to get away, get out of here. 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.559 It's scary in and of itself, but you know, we've people are fighting back. 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:10.559 There is community, and just keep finding find your spit and polish, find your canal street, and find your found family because there's got to be joy in all of it as well. 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:12.240 Find your Wednesday school too. 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:13.920 So there you go. 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.000 All right, thank you so much. 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.759 Thank you so, so much. 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:28.880 All right, hello everybody. 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.200 This is Matthew Williams with Queer Voices. 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:41.440 My guest is Michael Robinson, Rice University graduate, film programmer, writer, queer cinema obsessive, because apparently being gay just wasn't enough of a commitment to the arts. 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.279 He studied film and anthropology. 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:51.680 He loves experimental films, documentaries, short films, and apparently movies that are so emotionally devastating that he had to go outside and smell things. 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.960 He somehow kept missing Queer Film Festival Q-Fest, so naturally he's now running it. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:06.319 He writes about movies for OutSmart, works in contemporary art programs, the Houston Cinema Arts Festival, and co-created the big queer picture show because Houston wasn't gay enough. 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.720 Michael Robinson, welcome back to Queer Voices. 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:09.519 Thank you so much. 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:10.720 And what an amazing introduction. 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.000 Oh my god, I feel so honored. 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:13.519 That's a good deep dive. 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:15.440 Yeah, it takes a little bit of work. 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.480 I stole it from Brett uh Goldstein from Feels to Be Buried with. 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.680 So I want everybody to know that it is not something I naturally came up with. 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:23.440 I want to talk a little bit about you, Mr. 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.240 Michael, and how did you get into this career path that you're at? 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.240 It really was all happenstantial. 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:35.839 Uh I wanted to engage in chemical engineering, and there are a series of instances of interacting with people that I was like, is this gonna be my life? 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:40.160 And having to have that price, that moment of like, I don't, I don't want to go down this path. 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.640 And so I didn't have a job when I graduated. 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:43.920 And I was like, what do I do? 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:47.599 And my professor told me to volunteer with QFest and work with them to change my life. 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:57.759 With Christian Salinas, who is just an incredible thinker, programmer person, and he just gave me so many great opportunities and made me like really think critically about films. 00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:59.759 And it was just like, oh no, this is exciting. 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:09.599 And you get an audience to experience things that you just can really only experience once at a festival, and that was what set me on track to just keep programming movies queer and otherwise. 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.319 And is this exactly the area you want to be in? 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:18.240 Or did you want to go into filmmaking or just the putting it out there for everybody to see and showcasing is the one for you? 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:19.359 Definitely showcasing. 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:27.440 I majored in film and that was more filmmaking, and it was interesting, but the overarching vision and like the storyboard is not necessarily my bag. 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:35.519 Understanding like there's a final product and it's connecting it to audiences and like viewing films as catalysts for conversation is so much more of what I'm interested in. 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:48.880 I uh view it as like a community connections moment of like, especially in Houston, and bringing together queer histories and like resurrecting queer spaces that have been rarefied through gentrification, through how much interchanges Montres has had. 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.119 That's the exciting part of being like, no, we can't actually bring people together, even if it's only for a night. 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.720 How do you feel about the state of film, especially queer film? 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.920 And how does that relate to the movie that you're gonna be screening coming up? 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:01.759 I'm conflicted about current queer films. 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:12.000 I would always make that joke of like I would know what films people had seen based off of how old they were because everyone was searching Netflix gay to be like whatever they had licensed at the time. 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.799 There's a lot more like accessibility, but I also think understanding like what a queer aesthetic is. 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:22.160 I think so many films right now care about things that are explicitly queer but not implicitly queer. 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.480 And to me, the beauty is in the implicitcy. 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:33.440 Like it's in that texture and understanding queer eye and understanding like the makers around something, becoming obsessed with like who's a costume designer, who's the production designer. 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:38.400 And that's something that I'm hoping through Letterboxd and some of these other memes, people get excited about. 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:43.519 And in terms of the films, though, that I'm presenting at the Houston Cinema Arts Festival, that's really top of mind. 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:48.240 We have Coward, which is the new film by Lucas Stant, who directed Close and Girls. 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:49.920 And it is pretty straightforward, gay film. 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.799 We'll kind of connect anyone who wants a more straightforward film. 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:58.000 But there's also The Blood Countess, which is by Or Gottinger, who's made films since the 70s. 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:05.440 And she's this like zany, queer German woman who like will always make things that people might describe as esoteric. 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:06.559 Image forward. 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.599 It's Isabella Plaire playing a lesbian vampire. 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:15.279 Like it's just like so out there and beautiful, and like every single image is this incredible tableau. 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:17.279 And that's what excites me. 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:22.720 This is also a great documentary called Mickey, that the whole point is questioning like, what is trans cinema? 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:35.359 Like it equates so much of movies to like PC music of how do you understand these like modularities, how do you understand these digital textures, these fabrics, of like when a body can become an image and therefore like augmented, what therefore is a body? 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:41.759 And like that's to me when cinema can like provoke these questions and can like be the starting point of conversation. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:46.799 Like when people can go watch a movie and then like the real magic comes from the conversation afterwards. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.880 That's like my dream as a programmer. 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:59.519 I've recently really delved into watching the type of art house, indie, cult classic type of stuff that you know the cool kids want to watch or the people studying film or getting into. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:07.440 The last few years, I've had some issue with Chris Cinema overall, where it just feels a little, I don't know, not relatable. 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:10.960 And I was just like, at least the mainstream stuff that gets talked about a lot. 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.559 And I'm like, part of it was like, is there something going on with me? 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.880 A lot of our cinema tends to have very sexy men in it doing, you know, sexual things. 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:23.599 And it was just like, I'm not seeing, I'm not getting what everybody's getting some of these times. 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.240 And then I watched my own private Idaho. 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.079 And I was like, well, these are these are mostly white guys. 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:31.680 They're very good looking people. 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:36.319 You keep talking about Keanu Reeves and River Phoenix at the sexiest they could possibly be. 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.240 And yeah, I was super into it. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:40.160 I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, here we go. 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:40.799 I'm into this. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:41.440 I'm into this. 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:57.119 So I don't, I could still haven't been able to put into words what's the difference between seeing those movies like I mean, I know I am comparing now to classics like that, but it just feels like something is not quite there right now with a lot of queer cinema that's like relatable. 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:02.880 It seems a lot maybe a little surface level or exactly characters aren't going as deep as they get. 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:11.839 And I feel like, as also I'm I'm black, I'm African-American, we we are it's not the best, but we're getting past having just a sassy black woman. 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:22.559 You know, you get in the show like Insecure, where it's a quirky black girl who's a slacker and who's kind of messing up quite a bit, which we never, you know, the slacker was always a straight white guy. 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:32.400 And that but in that character does, you know, deserves to be any kind of person because often the slacker is somebody who has some something going on and it's a deeper story than what it seems like. 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.519 So why not let all every kind of person be able to play that role? 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:45.839 I'm not sure if I'm getting this we're we're getting that with the queer with queer stuff, at least a lot of mainstream stuff, where it's like we're a little bit more multi-dim more multidimensional than I feel like we're getting. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:51.440 It still feels like some tropes, even though it's even coming from uh directors or producers that are queer. 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:56.240 I see people get excited about things and they're like, I I don't think I can relate to this completely. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:56.880 Oh, completely. 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:02.079 No, I see that a lot in watching, I think, films that are trying to be queer films TM. 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:07.519 And that's kind of what I get frustrated with a lot of films that Lily wear that as the this kind of badge. 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:15.759 What we lose in a lot of like representational politics is trying to like become essentialists with so much of this rather than like allowing that thorniness of queerness and that expansiveness. 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:23.759 Some of the best queer films that I've seen this year is that the queer characters were tertiary characters, or you saw like queerness as like a texture of the film. 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:34.640 And it's like partially it's like validating because you're watching it and like 10 minutes in, you're like, I know you, and you like see the character, and you realize like you know, straight audiences are gonna see that and you watch this character develop. 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:43.839 And it's just like greatness of being like you can see this movie from so many different lenses that it's not trying to position it to be like so explicit, to be here's the queer narrative to you. 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:58.480 But I think so many times that it becomes this pastiche of like what queer cinema is, where you know, like you're talking about with I've been private at Idaho with uh Gus Van San, with Greg Rocky, like I love I want your sex, just because it was like messy. 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:12.000 And I feel like this idea of like things being like led with ideas and with interest and with images, and then allowing yourself to explore those rather than trying to make everything tidy, like something gets lost with the translation. 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:13.680 Like just have that excitement. 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:19.920 Show like what queerness can like exist with on screen and don't like define it by the parameters that it can't be. 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:20.400 Yeah. 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:31.839 And I'm seeing so much, maybe it might be the algorithm, but I'm I'm getting so many ads or seeing so many things presented to me of uh queer TV shows or movies that look like they can. 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:37.200 I haven't seen Club Kid, but I've I've heard some really nice things about it, but I'm getting a lot of that too. 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:42.880 The like the party gays, the circuit gays, and like, alright, it's time to grow up and be an adult. 00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:44.400 And it's like, okay, that's cool. 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.319 Is that you know there's more stories than that? 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.400 You know, like we got we got more stories going on. 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.839 And like internationally, like there's a polish show that's doing the kind of same thing. 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:58.960 And there's like two other shows where the kid, this is one gay who loves the party and have a lot of sex, and now he needs to figure it out and grow up. 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.039 And I'm like, okay, that's nice, that's nice. 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:02.480 We got a whole bunch of other things going on. 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:03.359 And that's a good thing. 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:09.680 So to me, what I always define that is to be like, people understand the commerciality of queerness, but they see it like well, straight people have to relate to it too. 00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:11.519 And so they're trying to have the best of both worlds. 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.920 And so you have to have this heteronormative aspect towards how everything is playing out. 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:22.799 And so you just have everyone like kind of ascribing to like, no, you need to not party, you need to have a family, you need to want to get married, you want to have a kid. 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:31.359 Just conscribe to things that, you know, for me, I have the it was the funniest that this is a terrible tangent, but it articulates this point a lot. 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:35.119 For some reason, I have been watching this really terrible reality show called Summer House. 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:36.559 It's terrible, but it is also great. 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.519 It's the the straight side of Bravo from the Housewives. 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:42.880 And on season nine, they have this character who is a womanizer. 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.599 And so every weekend he brings home another woman. 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:51.359 And at some point there's a breaking point in which like the people like the housemates are like, you need to get an SCI test. 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.119 That's disgusting, all of these things. 00:26:53.359 --> 00:27:00.799 And for anyone who's queer, like that, the straight gay man, like that one a weekend, that's you know, it's kind of dang for some people. 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:11.039 So, like this idea of like the like that being like straight people not being able to handle that much sex or to be like demoniseual partners, is so on an opposite side of the spectrum. 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.680 And like having to understand to be like, oh, but this is only playing for straight people because that's straight sentiments. 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:28.559 And so, like, what exactly like how are we placing this and how are we like understanding queer interests through queer media versus like capitulating to a straight gaze, or to even understanding, like, you know, kind of what does that actually like temper things. 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:43.119 You know, to me, I always just think about like what all is available on Netflix, or like the anecdote I mentioned before, of always looking at younger generations and taking this as like this is the type of queer life that they're understanding because now it's visible, right? 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.559 You don't have to like seek it out in a certain way to like find mirrors of yourself and golden girls and other like aspects. 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:57.279 You're able to like go on Netflix and see a queer lead already in a show that like is highly advertised that their parents might watch, but then it's like so neutered. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:03.440 And it's like, okay, what what is the queer media that we're producing actually going to impact on younger generations? 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.160 Yeah, and you know, it's funny you bring up golden girls. 00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:12.480 I grew up watching reruns religiously of The Golden Girls and In Living Color. 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.920 And I was like, this I'm such a gay black millennial. 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:23.680 Gay black millennial to watch those because FX and Lifetime were right next to each other on the way the cable setup was, so I just had to flip. 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:30.720 They would come two episodes of The Living Color and then right, or vice versa, two episodes of Golden Girls, and then go right into two episodes in Living Color. 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.839 And I didn't recognize my sexuality until I was like I graduated high school or early college, and never knew it was a gay thing. 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:39.440 I was I was just watching the girls. 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:40.880 I was just like, but this is just funny. 00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.559 This is just this is just a funny show. 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:46.720 I didn't know until I met some stray guys, some stray friends, like, yeah, I don't know if I want to watch that show. 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:48.559 I'm like, okay, well, something wrong with you then. 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:49.359 It's just a funny show. 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.759 And then I heard a joke one time, like, say what now? 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.319 It's a what? 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.119 What are we talking about? 00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:54.079 I didn't know it was a gay thing. 00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.279 I just thought it was a funny show. 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.079 It made me even prouder to be into it because I was like, the girls knew, I I got into it before I knew. 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:10.480 It was nice to have shows like that that can, even if it's not explicitly being, you know, gay like that, it was it provided that kind of context to catch for somebody like me to catch it before I even recognize it. 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:19.119 And I wonder if the kids today are having that even because then now they're just getting the shows that are that, but then those shows will perform in a way that we're talking about. 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.799 Okay, I want to talk more about the uh the film festival and the movies that you're doing. 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:28.240 Any more information you want to give about it or when they're gonna uh when you're gonna show them or how they find out about it, the listeners. 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:28.880 Absolutely. 00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:43.759 Um, so this is for the Houston Cinema Arts Festival, which is taking place October 1st through the 11th at venues all across Houston, including the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, Rice Cinema, Brazil, the Deluxe Theater, River Oaks Theater, Asia Society, and more. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:55.599 If anyone wants to find out more information, they can visit cinemahdx.org or go to hcaf2026.eventiv.org for tickets. 00:29:55.839 --> 00:30:00.240 There are passes available to attend the whole festival, or you can buy individual tickets. 00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:08.640 But it really is a great, wide-ranging festival that, you know, features uh films from Houston, from the state, and from really the entire globe. 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:16.480 We're opening with Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, which is Bassam Tariq's film that just uh debuted at Toronto to great reviews. 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:17.680 It is set in Houston. 00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:21.519 He's a Houston-based director, so we're very excited, starring Marshal Ali. 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:24.960 We also have, you know, such a great variety of international films. 00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:26.400 I mentioned The Blood Countess. 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.920 We're actually flying Bridget Minischmeier down for that film. 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:34.559 We have a great restoration of a film from India called Report to Mother. 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:44.880 There's Look Back, which, you know, kind of like we're talking about, has a lot of queer texture to it about two young girls who both love drawing manga and bond over their shared love. 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.440 There's a lot of sapphic energy happening between them that's really sweet to witness. 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:57.599 Nina Rosa, which is Canada's submission for the Oscars, The Debut, starting Julianne Moore, a diva, really the diva of all divas, and so many more. 00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:08.960 So it's really a good, uh wide array of different films that are offered, but also just like a great time with, you know, local filmmakers, a good way to kind of meet other film goers, and just a general sense of excitement. 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:14.319 You know, fall film festivals, if you know you're not familiar, are really that like kind of award season campaign. 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:37.039 It's all of these movies traveling all across the the nation as they, you know, debut at Toronto and then they go to a New York film festival and they've maybe been to Telaride, and there's just this general kind of like buzz around them of you know, people talking about these movies, and this is a lot of times the first time you can like see them for yourself before you know they're an Oscar race and there's all of these narratives around them, and you kind of get to make your own, you know, opinions on them or be part of that excitement. 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:46.079 You know, a lot of these you can see any you know Auster pundits writing about them, but it's just fun to kind of be a part of that sense of excitement. 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.720 Um, and especially a lot of these are Texas premiers. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.359 So before anyone in Austin, before anyone in Dallas um gets to watch them, they're playing here first. 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.680 That's good to hear, because that should happen more often. 00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:56.640 With I agree. 00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.799 I was like, we're the fourth biggest city in the nation. 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.279