Embracing Mindfulness and Compassion to Illuminate Life's Journey with Oren Jay Sofer

Have you ever wondered what it feels like to truly connect with the joy and tranquility of life, even amidst the chaos? Our latest conversation with Oren Jay Sofer, a renowned teacher of Buddhist meditation and communication, unveils a path to such fulfillment. Oren opens up about the sparks that light up his life—from the love he shares with his family to the satisfaction he receives from empowering others through his teachings. He imparts the profound realization that we all carry the potential to become beacons for each other, especially in times of crisis, and that our interactions can have lasting, positive effects on the world around us.

In our fast-paced world, it's easy to lose sight of the moments that truly matter. This episode explores the importance of pausing the hustle, likening the practice of meditation to allowing the sediment in apple cider to settle for a clearer, more refined juice. Orin and I discuss the challenges our minds face with the allure of technology and the bombardment of consumerist promises. Yet, through the simple act of slowing down, we open ourselves to deeper insight, nourishment, and the ability to concentrate on what's truly important—transforming the way we engage with life and unlocking our fullest human potential.

Contemplative practices, as Oren reveals, are more than just exercises in mindfulness; they are tools for building resilience and compassion in the face of life's adversities. We cover ground on the 26 traits that can serve as pillars for both personal and societal transformation, as outlined in Oren's latest book. Perhaps most poignant is our discussion on forgiveness—a journey that goes beyond pardoning others to a process of healing ourselves and finding peace with our past. Join us for an intimate and heartfelt exploration of how mindfulness and self-compassion can serve as guiding lights in our lives, offering us solace and strength when we need it most.

Thanks for listening. If you are receiving value from the podcast and have learned something new that will Ignite Your Spark, I invite you to like, subscribe and comment so we can fill the world with light.

Shine on!

OREN JAY SOFER: https://www.orenjaysofer.com/
KIM: https://www.kimduffselby.com/

To try magic mind go to:

Magic Mind link to the best focus drink and my code:
 IGNITE20 & www.magicmind.com/igniteyourspark

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome back, sparklers, to another episode of Ignite your Spark. Now I'm your host, kim Duff Selby, and I want to thank you for tuning in again. Whether this is your first time or your 100th time listening to my podcast, know that I am grateful and that this podcast is for and about you. It is not about me. I am here to ignite a spark within you, to open you up to new ideas that will help you become the best version of yourself. With all of my fabulous guests, I know that you are finding light, finding your purpose and becoming more of who you were meant to be.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Today, my guest is Orin Jay Sofer, and I have not had anyone who is a Buddhist, a Buddhist teacher, a meditation teacher in the Buddhist form, such as Orin. Orin teaches Buddhist meditation, mindfulness and communication, which we all need. He holds a degree in comparative religion from Columbia and is a certified trainer of nonviolent communication and a somatic experiencing practitioner for the healing of trauma. And I want to say one thing about that is that don't be turned off by the trauma word, because some of you may think I haven't experienced trauma in my life. Well, if you have listened to any of my past episodes, you know that we have all experienced trauma, whether it's exiting the birth canal or something else that is significant or seemingly insignificant, so I think everybody can use that release.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Orin is also the author of several books, his latest being your Heart Was Made For this. Contemplative Practices for Meeting a World in Crisis with Courage, integrity and Love, and we definitely are a world in crisis right now. Orin, thank you for joining us. We will talk about your book and so much more. I really appreciate your taking the time to be here today, thank you.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Thanks, Kim. It was a pleasure to be here with you.

Speaker 1: 2:30

I want to ask you a question that I asked my guests and I want to say something about that. Before I'm going to ask you, how do you ignite your spark, and I'll let you think about that. But it also seems to me I was reading about you, and it is one of the questions that I read on your website how do you use your energy? And I feel like those two are very in sync. How do you ignite your spark and how do you use your energy and what do you need to sustain energy in your life? And when I was reading those words, I'm like that's the same thing as how I ignite myself. I don't know how that resonates with you. I want to say that and also let me know how do you ignite your spark?

Speaker 2: 3:21

Yeah, thanks, kim. Well, if we had more time I would love to take apart even that word, and how do we define spark and what is it and what do we each mean by it? But I'm just going to run with it here. There are a lot of things that get me going and I think it's worth acknowledging that, given so much of the heartache in our world and the uncertainty about the future. But that's hard sometimes. It's hard to get going, it's hard to feel a spark, whether we think about that spark as just feeling energized or feeling like there's something worthwhile, something to live for, something hopeful.

Speaker 2: 4:02

So for me there are a lot of different things that get me going, that ignite my spark. My wife is one of them. I love her deeply and just seeing her and thinking about how I can make my presence in her life more of a contribution to her and light her up, that brings me a lot of joy and energy. We are blessed to have a 14-month-old son. He's a little joy factory and he is experiencing everything for the first time. Just being with him or thinking about him or looking at little videos or pictures of him on my phone, guess my spark going.

Speaker 2: 4:42

I'll say two more things, so one these first two could we could just say like the relationships of my life, the people who mean something to me. The next is some sense of the preciousness of my own time here on the planet. It's just such a magnificent gift to be alive that none of us could produce in and of itself and on our own, and so, recollecting that my time here is limited and that I have the opportunity to learn and to grow and to do good when I come back to those understandings, that brings energy, motivation, vitality, hope to me, and then, from that, my work and just thinking about contributing to other people in their life and giving them the tools and the skills that they need to fulfill their dreams and to live a meaningful life and to make a better world. So, whether it's teaching meditation or teaching communication or leading workshops or classes, it's a real honor to get to do that with people and help in that way, and so that also lights me up inside. So a long answer, but hopefully that's helpful.

Speaker 1: 6:00

I don't know if you can't tell and listeners can, but I am tearing up at this because I have never, in my almost 150 interviews, heard someone step so outside of themself when answering that question and that's why I don't preface it and tell people what I mean by spark. I wanted what you said. You said your wife. I'm sorry, but this just really moves me. I have never felt this move by an answer to that. I've asked it over 150 times now because, from what I know about Buddhism and the Buddhist way, it is an external. It's all about others, not just about yourself, or at least that's what my takeaway is right this moment, because everything you said is about others. I've had people answer that question and say my teaching, my clients, not in such a specific way as one person like my wife, my child. That just moves me to no end. I mean that is precious.

Speaker 2: 7:10

I'm so glad. Yeah, she's sitting right over there and it's true, she's a light in my life.

Speaker 1: 7:18

Oh my gosh, I know you are a light in hers and a very calming presence. You are a very calm person as opposed to my very out there kind of nest In my better moments.

Speaker 2: 7:32

She's the best and the worst of me.

Speaker 1: 7:35

Of course, as do those closest to us. I have to bring myself back, because I was lost in your voice and the way you were speaking about that. I'm just thinking, wow, okay, that's all right. A big topic for everyone is meditation and mindfulness. It is such a buzzword I'm glad.

Speaker 1: 8:01

I'm really glad it's a buzzword. I don't care, because I think we all need it. It seems to be coming more and more out in the forefront of everyone's mind, whether you're in a yoga class, where mindfulness and meditation is always a practice, or you're out in public with someone and you just see a sign mindfulness. It's crazy. I was reading your tips on lessening anxiety and on mindfulness. Really, in the short amount of time that I spent on your website, I felt better about my lack of ability to calm my mind. Can you share some of your ideas? Like I love the way you had that analogy of the apple juice and the pulp.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:50

I've not heard that before, because when I sit down to meditate, which I do every single morning, I'm more talking than I'm meditating in my head, and I know I've had a lot of meditation teachers on this not the Buddhist realm. But I just thought your approach and your tips were a little different and I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 9:13

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a wonderful opportunity that we have in that this technology of meditation has become so available in our world. No-transcript. Yeah, let's talk about meditation and then let's talk about contemplative practice. So the analogy you're referring to is one that I learned from the Zen Buddhist Vietnamese teacher, thich Nhat Hanh. And he said think about your mind as a glass of raw apple juice, apple cider, with lots of pulp in it, and the pulp that's all your thoughts and your emotions and your memories and ideas and plans, all the stuff swirling around. And then he said if you want that, you know your mind to get clear and calm and you go with a spoon and you try to push the pulp down to the bottom, you're just going to stir everything up. But if you take the glass and you set it on the counter and you just leave it there half an hour or an hour, what happens is all the pulp settles to the bottom naturally, and then you're left with this clear, beautiful apple juice. And so in the same way in meditation, the more we try to control our thoughts or stop them or make them go away, the more we actually stir them up. We're just adding spin to an already often chaotic inner environment.

Speaker 2: 13:35

So one of the skills of meditation is learning how to allow things to unfold, unwind and settle on their own. And that's not doing nothing. And this is the, this is the part that's subtle. It's not just letting your mind wander. There is a certain kind of subtle intentionality. We're holding ourselves, our heart and our mind with a very clear intention to just be present, to let whatever is coming through come through without getting lost in it, without jumping on the bandwagon, without trying to figure it out. And that's the skill.

Speaker 2: 14:18

That's the tricky part, because we keep getting carried away, we keep getting lost in the thoughts, and so a lot of the practice is, just as often as we can, just recognizing when that's happened, trying to let go gently and just come back to being present.

Speaker 2: 14:36

And whether it's feeling your breath or feeling your body, you're noticing a sound or if you're using a mantra, all these different ways of practicing meditation this is one kind of meditation, is not the only kind. But I think the point you're bringing here with the question is this difference between what's often a kind of misunderstanding about meditation, which is that it means we have to stop thinking or control our thoughts, when in fact, the point is to learn to be more aware of our thoughts, because our minds think just like our ears hear sounds. You wouldn't sit down and go, I'm going to stop hearing now, I'll be ludicrous. So, in the same way, to imagine you're going to sit down to meditate and stop thinking just doesn't make sense. Instead, we're trying to learn how to be aware of our thoughts, and when we can do that, things start to settle on their own.

Speaker 1: 15:27

Yeah, that makes so much more sense to me than other practices that I have tried or read about. And because we all have that monkey mind. And I think, especially now with technology and the ability to scroll and jump from Instagram to tic-tac to Facebook, to our email, back forth and back and forth. I wasn't quite this scattered when I was younger. I am much scattered now. I also am one of those people who has a lot on my plate because that's my personality. But even if you don't have that, all of the opportunities whether they are good, bad or indifferent at our fingertips to learn to control our minds so that we don't get so scattered. And why do we want to do that? I know there's a good reason.

Speaker 2: 16:18

Why might we want to?

Speaker 1: 16:20

really slow down and be, thankful. I mean, I know there's so many reasons. You know, and I love how you talk about energy. I just that really stuck with me because I just think that's vital. We need energy, we need to come back into ourselves so that we can accomplish what we want to accomplish.

Speaker 2: 16:40

Yeah Well, let's take a look at that question, because it's an important one, I think. First, I'd want to acknowledge that, like everything, or almost everything in our world and our society is going in the other direction. It's saying go faster, get more, do more, look at more, flip between these things and that's going to make you happier, more attractive, more popular, feel good, feel better. And what do we actually find, if we're paying attention at least a little bit, is that it's not actually happening. We're strung out, tired, exhausted, stressed, self-conscious, doubtful, uncertain, comparing ourselves to others. It doesn't deliver. The promise of capitalist, consumer, individualistic society that the more you get and the more you do, the happier you'll be, is a false promise, and so the first step of extricating ourselves from that and discovering something that's actually works and that's more enduring and satisfying is to slow down and to get back to the basics. So slowing down has a whole range of benefits. Slowing down and gathering our attention. It's a whole range of benefits of why we might want to do it. First and foremost, it's nourishing in and of itself. You just think about the last time you were naturally drawn into a state of presence where you weren't rushing, you weren't fragmented, you weren't scattered, whether it was looking at the sunset or spending time with a good friend or eating a delicious meal or doing your favorite craft or hobby and all you felt slowed down and present and connected and focused. It's like that feels really good for us when we're in the zone like that. So it has immediate benefits to just slow down and settle. It's nourishing in and of itself, but then there's this whole realm of insight, learning, exploration and transformation that opens up.

Speaker 2: 19:04

So in Buddhist meditation we talk about the process of fulfilling our potential as human beings as having two parts. The first part is slowing down, because if you want to understand anything, if you want to make a difference, you need to be able to see clearly. You have to be able to focus on something long enough to make wise decisions, to engage in the right way. If you're jumping from this thing to that and scattered, we're not going to understand what's happening and we're just going to be reacting. We're not going to be able to be effective. So the first step is just slowing down and gathering our attention. This is concentration practice. This is a form of settling. It's the apple juice analogy that we use. Now that starts to feel good because it's nice, it's calm, we're not strung out, we're not fighting all of our thoughts and worrying about tomorrow and regretting yesterday. We're actually able to just be at ease in the presence, and that's beautiful, it's a blessing and a gift in and of itself. But then now we start to have access to some of the power of the human mind, which is this capacity to look deeply into things.

Speaker 2: 20:23

And this is the second part of Buddhist meditation practice, which is insight meditation to look clearly, to see clearly and understand what the heck is going on. Who am I? How did I get here? Why am I here? What do I want to do with my time on the planet? Why am I so stressed out? Why do I doubt myself so much? Why am I so mean to myself? Why does that person drive me up the wall?

Speaker 2: 20:47

To actually start to understand how this whole thing is functioning inside the mind and the heart and how we can start to use it more effectively. Because you know what Each of us has been given the most advanced and sensitive piece of technology, certainly in the solar system, probably in the galaxy and possibly in the universe we don't know for sure but even the supercomputers and the AI that have been created so far. You know they're modeled on our brains. So the question is we have this amazing, incredibly powerful, sensitive instrument of a human organism. How well do we know how to use it? Most of us are just getting by. Meditation practice gives us an actual method to start to harness some of the power of the human heart and mind.

Speaker 1: 21:44

Oh, I mean, that's why we should. I have read, I read many years ago that we only use what 10%, not even of our brain. Right, we don't even know what we are capable of.

Speaker 2: 21:55

Yeah. So let's talk now, if it's okay, about the difference between meditation and contemplative practice. Because, like, like you said earlier, meditation can be hard, we can feel like we can't do it, and there are times in our lives where we might not want to meditate for a variety of reasons we're grieving, we're really busy or any other number of reasons. And there's particular people, individuals who's like you know, it's really not for me. I just I don't want to meditate. It doesn't speak to me. I've tried it, I don't like it. So meditation is to contemplative practice, as what running is to exercise, oh, okay. So so you know you might not like to run, but you recognize that exercise is healthy and that there are other ways to, you know, meet your body's need for exercise and be healthy. So, in the same way, meditation is one form of contemplative practice. It's not for everyone, but contemplative practice is a way of taking care of our heart and our mind. It's a kind of mental, emotional and spiritual hygiene, if you will. And what contemplative practice does is it connects us with these deeper questions in life of meaning, purpose, and it develops, it strengthens a kind of reflective awareness, so that we're not just sleep walking through our life but are actually able to be more present and to bring more understanding and wisdom and compassion to the events of our life.

Speaker 2: 23:37

So there are many, many ways to do contemplative practice it's. It could be anything from art, music, poetry, storytelling, to very ordinary things like drinking a cup of tea or folding the laundry. What it has to do with is the quality of intention and presence that we bring to the activity. And so just to mention like this is what the new book that you mentioned earlier is about. It's really about what is this realm of contemplative practice and how do we start to use the very ordinary stuff of our life, of our days, to be strengthening ourselves internally, so that, instead of just rushing through the week and getting through the day and ending up exhausted by the end of the week and feeling like where did it all go all along the way, we're building inner resources, we're using the time that we've been given really wisely and effectively, not just outwardly but inwardly.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about your book, and I imagine that that is what inspired you to write this is knowing that more of us on earth today need to learn in order to access the part of us that knows how to calm down that we just need that, we need to lessen anxiety, especially with all that's going on in the world today. I mean, you can't I don't turn on the news, but you can't help but hear about things going on, I am sure. So that was the motivating. What was the motivating factor behind?

Speaker 2: 25:28

Sure, yeah, that was part of it, for sure. Well, you know, it's ironic in a way. I started writing the book in 2020, during the pandemic, when you started your show, and, as a meditation teacher, writing about our inner resources was one way I could contribute to the really incredibly challenging year that we were all having, and so that was the initial impetus of the book. And then, when my wife got pregnant with our son, the project took on a deeper significance in that I really started grappling with this question of how does meditation practice and contemplative practice play a role in making a better world for the future, as I started thinking about my son's life and the climate crisis and looking at what I've been devoting myself to for the last 25 years in Buddhist meditation and contemplation and saying what are the? What's the connection between this inner cultivation and outer social transformation.

Speaker 2: 26:27

So the book is really an exploration of how do we build inner resources. It's structured around 26 positive qualities or positive traits. Each chapter has a short sort of discussion of the quality, something like energy, which we've already mentioned, concentration, patience, kindness, play, resolve, all of these very helpful capacities that we have as human beings. That explores what that capacity is in, hopefully a careful and deep way, and then offers practical tips. So there's a reflection, there's an, there's a meditation, there's an action in each chapter, some tips for how to bring it into your day and then a discussion of what to do if you hit a roadblock or difficulties.

Speaker 1: 27:16

We need that because as much as we practice all of these practices to reach roadblocks because there is something called life that we're living and it gets in the way sometimes, and I know that you also talk about forgiveness in your book and the vital importance of that. Can you speak to that briefly?

Speaker 2: 27:40

Sure, absolutely yeah. Forgiveness can be a charged topic, I think, because it goes to a very tender place for many of us and it's often a misunderstood quality. So one of the things that I like to begin with when we talk about forgiveness, is just what forgiveness is not, and that forgiveness doesn't mean condoning harm. It doesn't mean saying that what happened is okay. It doesn't mean forgetting. It's not about having amnesia or pretending that the past didn't happen. In fact, quite the opposite. It's based upon a very honest acknowledgement and reckoning with the past. We also don't forgive for the sake of someone else. Forgiveness isn't about freeing another person, which is often how we think about like I forgive you and so now you're free. Forgiveness is something we do for ourself. Forgiveness releases our own heart from being stuck in the past. As a kind of humorous short quote that says forgiveness means giving up the hope of a better past.

Speaker 1: 28:56

Hmm, oh my gosh, that resonates.

Speaker 2: 28:59

We let go of our this kind of unhealthy way that we become bound to in the vent or situation in the past. That was harmful, that was hard, and it starts to define us and then we feel resentful. And how do we actually come to terms with the reality of that and release ourselves from it? So forgiveness is about that. Oh, that was a funny sound. The opposite of forgiveness is resentment. And there's another quote from Nelson Mandela who said you know, resentment feeling bitter and angry towards your enemies is like drinking poison and hoping someone else gets sick. Hmm, like you're the one who suffers. So how do we transform that, that experience, and say this is what forgiveness is about, and it's a process. It's not a one and done. It's a process that starts with a certain, a certain intention, a certain interest in saying I want to forgive, or I want to be able to forgive, or I would like to want to forgive you, even that, and just beginning to move in that direction and then watering those seeds.

Speaker 1: 30:17

Okay, so let's never brought up this story. But let's say I had a somewhat abusive boyfriend when I was 17 and he slapped me once. And how do I forgive that? I don't, even, I can't. It didn't color my life, for the actual relationship colored my life for many years. Again, I was 17. That's 50 years ago. I don't know that I can or want, and I should want to, but I don't, I don't. How does one get past that? How do you even start? Well, I guess you just said three examples.

Speaker 2: 31:00

Yeah, yeah, Thanks. Thanks, Kim. And first I'm just sorry to hear that I'm sorry you had to go through that and that that he hurt you in that way.

Speaker 1: 31:12

Very literally and direct, directly. Yeah, that's just one time. Physically, but emotionally.

Speaker 2: 31:18

Yeah, yeah, and you know, sometimes emotional abuse can be more damaging than physical abuse, or really, really, for years, yeah, really tragic effects. So you know, I think sometimes when we think about forgiveness, the emphasis is on the other person initially. So and I want to, I want to pause, say one other thing broadly and then come back to your specific situation and question. So it's important to understand that forgiveness exists on many different dimensions. So most commonly, we think about forgiving someone else, but then we can also think about asking forgiveness, seeking forgiveness which is just, which can be a step in a process of reconciliation, taking responsibility for actions. So there's that dimension. Then there's forgiving ourselves. Each of us does things, says things that are. Maybe we let ourselves down or we do something that's harmful to ourselves, and sometimes it's our self that can be the hardest to forgive. And then there's this larger dimension of forgiving life, forgiving life which breaks our hearts and dashes our hopes and our dreams. Can we do that? So Dr King said forgiveness is a way of life. That's something we practice every day, coming to terms with, accepting the difficult realities of the world we live in. So now let's come back to your situation.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Oftentimes, when we have been on the receiving end of some harm. The place to start is actually with compassion and empathy for our self. That's not what the other person it's really recognizing, and this is the aspect of forgiveness. That is about an honest reckoning with the past. I really recognize it like not only was that hard, but I suffered. I suffered in the moment and I suffered for years afterwards and it took a toll and being able to feel genuine compassion for ourselves and to mourn, to really grieve whatever was lost, the sense of safety, the sense of dignity, confidence all of that because it was something was taken from you that was precious. So I think that's the beginning is touching our own pain.

Speaker 2: 33:49

It's only when we've done that in a sincere way I think that we can start to then turn our attention to the other person, because that image of them as, whatever we have it a monster, hateful, hurtful, abusive, whatever the image is we've created in our mind in a way that image is protecting us, is protecting us psychically from them and from our own pain. So first we start to get in touch with our own pain, to metabolize that. Then we can turn our attention to the other person and begin to consider what is the relationship I want to have with my past and with this person? How do I want this to live in my heart?

Speaker 2: 34:37

When it's time to die and death is the ultimate tonic for forgiveness when it's time to let go and to move on, do I still want to be holding on to this? Most of us would say no. I want to be at peace with this, and so that can start to bring us to this place of the arising of the intention, or even the desire, to forgive. It's like I might not be able to now, but I want to be able to forgive you, or I want to want to forgive you.

Speaker 1: 35:13

That's where I am.

Speaker 2: 35:14

Yeah, and that's enough. And to just start there. And then, through that, we start to see what made this person have been experiencing, what was going on for them. How were they abused? How powerless or helpless did they feel? How scared or weak might he have felt inside to need to assert his power over you in that way, To start to see his humanity. And again, that's distinct from justifying the actions. It doesn't say that it's okay or that it was right, but to see this person's humanity and then to start to come to terms with all of the conditions in both of our lives and our families and going back through human history just led to this particular situation. And then to say like to say I forgive is, in a certain way, to say I accept. I accept the reality of what happened in all of its complexity and pain. I'm no longer fighting with that. This is the truth, this is what happened, and I can still and I can feel whole in relation to that. It's hard, yeah, it's not easy.

Speaker 1: 36:30

I know my situation is different. I certainly didn't mean to make it around me, but no, I'm so glad you brought in a personal example. Sometimes it helps people to realize that every single one of us has something yeah, we may not realize is. Trauma is, as I said in the beginning everyone experiences it, but it just felt right at this time to say that and you were very helpful.

Speaker 2: 36:53

Yeah, I'm glad and you know, it's the reason why forgiveness is the last chapter in my book and I want to tell a short story just about forgiveness. I talk about a Lakota elder, albert Whitehat, who shared his own experience of opening to forgiveness in Indian boarding schools. He was in Indian boarding schools as a child and the you know countless atrocities that his people experienced at the hands of white settlers in the US government and he had been consumed with anger and a desire for revenge for a long time. And in this one documentary he talks about reaching a tipping point where he touched a place inside of genuine desire to be happy and he said and this is what he said I want to live, I want to be happy, I feel I deserve that, but the only way that I was going to do that was if I forgive. And I cried that morning because I had to forgive.

Speaker 2: 38:01

And since then, every day, I work on that commitment to forgive. And it's such a powerful example of our capacity as human beings. You know, if you hear someone who's you know, whole people were decimated by these vast forces of history and to this day are still experiencing the effects. Right, and he's saying he's recognizing. You know I want to be happy and it's not a one and done. He says I work on it every day, but he recognizes that that's the way forward.

Speaker 1: 38:41

And you know, honestly, orrin, when someone like me or those of us who have suffered what is sort of minor trauma, and you read about that and you're like, why should I even think about my issues when there are so many more really devastating issues, that people go through wars that are going on right now, yeah, people are going to be suffering the trauma from that for decades. It's in their DNA, their genetics. It's going to be passed down to their children, right, and so it brings it into perspective. And that's why I think for me, I'm like so what I have that, I have that. But I realized as you were speaking, it doesn't matter. We have to acknowledge our own, because that's going to heal us, which will, in turn, heal future generations of ours as well.

Speaker 2: 39:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:29

Oh, my gosh, orrin, our time is up, but I am really beyond blessed. I really did not want to make this about me, but you helped me today, so I appreciate it. And by helping me, hopefully, you have also helped others. And again, your book is your Heart Was Made For this Contemplative or contemplative practices for meeting a world in crisis with courage, integrity and love. And that world in crisis, yes, can be the world that lives within you, or it can be the outer world which we are experiencing today, and I am grateful for you, on behalf of all the, let's say, millions of people who will read it, that you have brought this out into the universe.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Thank you, Thanks so much for having me on the show, Kim.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Of course, Is there anything else? One other thing that you might want to leave my listeners with.

Speaker 2: 40:22

Yeah, the reminder that the future is not written. And every day we're practicing something and we have a chance every day to strengthen our own hearts and to make a difference. And it all depends. It all begins with how we pay attention, whether or not we're aware, and so you know, whether or not you meditate or get into contemplative practice or look at my book, I would hope that you remember that. You know, the more presence and awareness we bring to our lives, the stronger we get and the more we can help one another.

Speaker 1: 41:00

Yeah, awareness so important, thank you. Thank you, and where can my listeners find you?

Speaker 2: 41:07

Sure, my website is a great place to start, or in Jsofercom, all the information about my work, a lot of free resources. As you were pointing to, kim, the book your Heart Was Made For this is available anywhere. Books are sold, and I'm also on social media at Orin J Sofer.

Speaker 1: 41:25

Great. I'll put it all in the show notes, of course, and then people can find you that way. I am grateful and blessed for this time with you. I feel like I've been through therapy, as I teared up many times during our conversation. I appreciate your genuine heart, your ability to give so much to others and the wisdom that you have brought to the world. At this time. I am grateful, and I know my listeners are too. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, everyone for tuning in. Please do share this episode with others If you have found it helpful for yourself. Subscribe to Ignite your Smart, because really we want to get the word out About all my fabulous guests and create more light in the world. More light, more forgiveness, more awareness. And with that, thank you for shining your light, everyone. I'll see you next time.

Speaker 3: 42:52

Oh, and everything's going your way. Oh, and everything's going your way.