Lessons Learned for Vets
Lessons Learned for Vets
From Aviation Leadership to Franchising Success with Michael Athanasakis
Michael Athanasakis, a veteran with an impressive military career, shares his story of transitioning from active duty Army service to owning a Chick-fil-A franchise. Discover how leading helicopter attack platoons and teaching military science equipped him for the entrepreneurial world. Michael also discusses his initial steps into franchising with Great Clips, inspired by his stepdad's success, and how these experiences laid the foundation for his business acumen while he was still in service. This episode offers a unique glimpse into the opportunities and hurdles faced by veterans eyeing the franchising or business ownership route.
Transitioning from military to civilian life is no small feat, and Michael's journey underscores the critical role of mentorship and networking. We discuss the often-overlooked emotional and relational aspects of this transition, while also discussing the importance of building genuine connections slowly rather than overwhelming potential mentors. The conversation highlights the power of strategic guidance over mere opinions and explores how veterans navigate social media interactions, emphasizing the value of their experiences. Michael and I delve into the misconceptions around job titles and compensation, shedding light on the importance of understanding individual roles and the growth - and earnings potential - they offer.
We conclude with practical advice on reframing military skills for civilian roles, drawing from Michael’s experience and the Night Stalkers' perseverance motto. By emphasizing the relevance of military-acquired systems, processes and emotional intelligence, we guide veterans on how to market these skills in the private sector effectively. While the transition can be daunting, Michael reassures listeners that with adaptability and perseverance, success is within reach. This episode not only offers encouragement, it provides actionable strategies to aid veterans in their professional journey.
You can connect with Mike at https://www.linkedin.com/in/athanasakis/
Subscribe to our YouTube channel at https://tinyurl.com/llforvets22
Subscribe to the podcast and leave us a 5-star review. Please share this with other veterans who might need help as they transition from the military!
The Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast is sponsored by Seek Now and their Drive Academy. Seek Now is the property inspection industry's leading business and they created Drive Academy DoD SkillBridge and CSP internships to teach transitioning military service members and veterans skills that prepare them for lucrative and rewarding careers in the property inspection and insurance industries. You can learn more and apply today at www.internwithdrive.com.
Welcome to the Lessons Learned for Vets podcast, your military transition debrief. I'm your host, Lori Norris, and I've helped thousands of military service members successfully transition out of the military since 2005. Thanks for tuning in to hear the after action reports and real stories of your fellow veterans, who are here to help guide, educate and inform you as you navigate your own military transition. By the way, if you find value from today's episode, please share it with others, Leave us a review and post about us on social media. On today's episode of the Lessons Learned from Vets podcast, I am excited to welcome Michael Thanasakis.
Speaker 1:Michael served three years in the Marine Corps Reserve and more than 20 years in the US Army as an aviation officer. He led many. He held many key leadership roles, including leading helicopter attack platoons in Iraq, serving as a military science professor at Clarkson University and commanding multiple special operations units before his retirement in 2020. Mike has been a business owner since 2015 and now owns and operates the Chick-fil-A Chantilly Air and Space Restaurant near Dulles Airport. He is here today to talk to us about how the military uniquely prepared him to be a business owner and give us a glimpse into what it took to be the owner of one of the most coveted franchises in the market. Welcome to the show, Mike.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Lori. That was a good intro.
Speaker 1:I can't believe it's been five years almost, though I know it's actually time flies. I was just I feel like I blink an eye and eight months have passed. So I agree, I am well. I'm just back in the studio after a long absence and I can't believe I haven't been sitting in this chair for about six months or more, so I know how that goes. So this, this show, is all about transition, right? And so one of the themes of this season is I want to show our transitioning service members that there are options, abundant options. You don't have to do the same thing. It's okay if you want to keep doing the same thing, but you don't have to.
Speaker 1:And I reached out to you because you had a pretty cool gig. As I said, you have a Chick-fil-A franchise my favorite chicken out there, right. So I want to talk about your transition first. So I want to get a little bit of insight into your transition. It looks like you started your first franchise with great clips before you even retired, and then you sold that a little after your retirement. Kind of. Take me through the process of how you decided to start a franchise, why you sold it, kind of. How did your transition out of the military go?
Speaker 2:so the transition, the actual nuts and bolts of getting out of the Army is pretty easy. I was shocked at actually how easy and how quick and how efficient it went, considering, you know, bureaucracy and government bureaucracies and you know submitting different things through the years and waiting on a long, lengthy process. It took about two days for my retirement orders to come back. So the actual I tell people the physical act of getting out of the military and in my case, the army, it isn't overly difficult and is actually a lot quicker than people think. It's all the other things that take time the you know communicating to your family, communicating to your chain of command, your leadership, communicating to the mentors who helped you and helped progress you throughout your career and you worked hard for them and it was a mutually beneficial relationship. But there's all those things and I always tell people the act is easy. It's the guilt and the anxiety and the stress and all that that comes with it, having those tough conversations with folks and just knowing how you know things change very quickly when those words come out of your mouth and I always use the fast lane, slow lane. You know, you've been in the left lane, fast lane, speeding down the highway. Now you're kind of going into the right lane getting ready to get off the exit ramp and everybody's still going in the fast lane that is staying in your mentors, your, you know, your friends, everyone else. So you know conversations change, you know, things don't revolve. The conversation no longer revolve around like progression and what do you think here? And let me help develop you. It's almost as awkward where you're still kind of around but folks don't really know how to, how to you know, how does this relationship go forward? Um, so that's what I would say is the hard part.
Speaker 2:Um, as far as me getting into franchising, I I have, you know, I had a stepdad who was, who was into franchising, uh, you know, came from overseas, made a living, a great living, in franchising and I saw him go from like literally nothing. When I was a young child he worked at a Dunkin' Donuts and he would bring home Dunkin' Donuts, the old ones they were going to throw out in his boots. He would keep them warm for us and he was a team member out of Dunkin' Donuts to eventually, you know, in multiple service stations, gas stations. He had Dunkin' Donuts in the gas stations and so it always intrigued me. I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit and so I've always wanted to kind of do my own thing but kind of be partnered with someone along the way. So franchising worked out. And there's always a cautionary tale in franchising this isn't hey veterans, every veteran should get into franchising. And so that kind of led me down the road.
Speaker 2:And Great Clips was a great introduction in that I could still you know, I was still on active duty and I did all these procedural things correctly and filled out all this paperwork to make sure I could do it. But I was still on active duty. But it allowed me to get a taste of business ownership, business partnership, cause I had to be partnered with somebody. Obviously I wasn't going to be there day in and day out. I had a great partner who happened to have been retired and in the unit with me and he was living where our franchise was.
Speaker 2:But you know, I just learned the nuts and bolts of like stuff that we're not intimately familiar with as franchisees the nuts and bolts of a profit and loss statement, the nuts and bolts of hey man, we got to make payroll this month.
Speaker 2:It's your turn to cash out $10,000 out of your savings so we can make payroll Just things that you don't learn in an MBA classroom, you know, and nothing wrong with that. I think if you can get into a top tier MBA program, you should, and it's a great opportunity. But for me that wasn't a viable option. I was still on active duty. I was, you know, I still had a little bit of time left in the military. So I always tell people it was kind of like an MBA without the MBA and it kind of cost me about the same amount of money to get. So it was, it was just a really great experience. And Great Clips is a great company, great family owned company and in the Minnesota area, and so it was just a great introduction to franchise for me. And then, of course, we can talk about what led me down the path to Chick-fil-A as well.
Speaker 1:We'll definitely have a conversation about Chick-fil-A, because I know that that is quite the process and definitely want to talk about that. How did that work for you to still be serving active military and be operating a franchise business?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I wouldn't be able to do it without we had a. Again, I had a partner that I was partnered with, um and the fact that, look, you can't cut, I'm not a cause. You know what I mean. I don't have a cosmetology license, I'm not cutting hair, right, so so that was a good introduction in terms of it didn't require me to be there. Now it did require a little bit more of my partner, who put in a lot more day-to-day or week-to-week work, if you will.
Speaker 2:But for me, what was really good? It taught me how to deal with banks, how to get loans. These are all things you can do without, like the nuts and bolts of getting into business and then staying in business is really what it. What it taught me, right? I necessarily wasn't there day in and day out making sure how many haircuts were done that day, how many, and there's there's systems and processes and you hire managers and there's all that stuff that comes into play.
Speaker 2:But, um, just putting together a business plan to get a small business loan. You know most veterans, you know we can talk about our great leadership skills, we talk about all these things and it's great. Uh, being a veteran prepares us very well. But there's just some things that it doesn't you know, you're not exposed to, you're not exposed to putting together a business plan you're not exposed to, you're not exposed to putting together a business plan you're not exposed to. And so I had reps of doing all that you know because you know I remember my first business plan was kind of well, why don't you go back to the drawing board on this? And you know so. So you know there were folks that that were able to work with me and and I was able to learn.
Speaker 2:So it was's just I felt an invaluable experience and I tell people they asked me about great clips, did you make money? Did you lose money? And I said, well, long term we could have made a lot of money if we would have built out how many units we had and all those things, and then that would have gone to like a full-time post-career. Uh, but having the one unit, that's really hard to scale, one unit at those volumes. So I didn't lose money, I didn't make money. I essentially broke even and learned a ton, a ton in the process. That really set me up for success when I went down the path with Chick-fil-A. Success when I, when I went down the path with Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 1:Ok, and you know, you and I didn't talk about this when we met before, but I am the daughter of gas station owner. I, my, my father, owned 76 and shells and all of those and my dad was a mechanic. So I was cleaning gas station bathrooms at 10 and 12 years old, so I feel that yeah familiar.
Speaker 1:It is a everybody all hands on deck. Everybody gets in and works in that gas station, so I get that. So I did not know that about you. So now you and I talked about the fact that there is a lot of military transition advice out there kind of floating around. You never know where you're gonna get it or who you're gonna get it from, and you have a very interesting approach to how you receive that advice in your transition. Can you tell me about that?
Speaker 2:Yes, and so I'm going to paraphrase this and I can't remember where I heard this. I heard this years ago when I was like starting my journey and thinking about transition, and I can't remember who said this to me, but it stuck with me and I share this with folks and I tell people first I'm going to lead with. I am not the expert on military transition. I have a you know. I'll share my story, I'll share my journey and if someone can glean anything from that and take it, great. But I don't profess to be all knowing. In this process I have experienced some things. I have about a five-year headstart, I guess you could say I have folks who haven't gotten out yet. But what I tell folks is is you got to learn how to eat the meat and leave the bone. Take what applies to you and leave what doesn't. And it doesn't mean that that person is all knowing and it doesn't mean that that person is a horrible person. And the reason why I say that is I see a lot on the social media sphere, out on LinkedIn, all these, and it's almost like veteran trying to out veteran each other or trying to out veteran. Their experience or my experience is more worthy than this one or that one, and I just see a lot of fighting in it and it's kind of disheartening because like we should be the community that rallies around each other and helps each other, because essentially nobody gets it like we get it in terms of our struggles, in terms of the transition, in terms of like, wow, I thought I had all this experience that mattered, and it seems to be that I'm getting experience. I'm being told that it doesn't, and what I tell people is your experience absolutely matters, everything in your journey absolutely matters, it absolutely has a place.
Speaker 2:One thing I'd say is sometimes we just have to rethink. It's not that all of my experiences leading up to this didn't apply. I just have to apply them differently to get the result I'm looking to get. So that's one thing that I would tell veterans. But I'll get in too winded here and I know our time's limited and you could just you know if you have follow-ons you need to expound. I will, but definitely learn how to eat the meat and leave the bone. Not any one source is all knowing. I tend to be connected with folks that I see counter each other and counter each other's advice, cause I I want to kind of learn and hear from everyone. And every once in a while I'll chime in with you know, with a thought, but I always try to keep my part very uplifted and positive.
Speaker 1:You know I I'm not looking to create dissent and the detractors know I want folks to do well, yeah I do feel like there is a sense of like oh, I've got to stir up some controversy so I get more views and I go viral, and you know, I do feel there is some of that. Um, but I really like what you said is like you're not an expert in transition, but really, who is an expert in transition? Because I feel like to become an expert, you have to do something again and again and again and practice at it, and nobody's doing that right.
Speaker 2:No, no, like you know what they say, you know the outliers, 10,000 hours doing something, all those different things. Yeah, I have seen some things that I think work. I've had seen some things that I think like, hey, maybe that's not the best approach, but I always tell people it never hurts to talk to people, connect with people and have conversations. We always want to put these terms, like you know informational interviews. You have all these informational interviews. What does that really mean? It means, like just talking to some good people. Hey, dude, I'm a veteran, you're a veteran, we have some common ground. Talking to some good people. Hey, dude, I'm a veteran, you're a veteran, we have some common ground, we've done some similar things. You know, would you like to have a conversation?
Speaker 2:And not everybody's going to say yes, like I'm at the point now and I don't mean like oh, look at me, I'm so busy, but like I'll get about 20, 25 connections a month where somebody wants to have a conversation with me about Chick-fil-A and they haven't even really started the journey. So now I have like a typed up response of like, hey, do these things, do these things. And then, when you get to here, contact me back, cause then I know they're really in a position to have that conversation right now. It'd be a waste of their time and, frankly, probably a little bit of waste of my time, because they won't even remember some of the stuff we talk about until they get to a certain point where it would be more beneficial to them.
Speaker 1:And I really think that's interesting because you told me about that kind of curated mentorship response. So I want to dig into that a little bit. I know we were planning on talking about that later, but let's dig into it now because I think it's really important, Because I think people often reach out and they say can I pick your brain? You know, can you answer a question for me? And it's it's like well, it's very non-specific, right? So I'm, and I think it's important to think about how we approach mentors and what advice would you give on how people should approach you? And, just like the advice you might give to listeners who are seeking mentors, how should they go about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't say like, hey, how you approach Mike, like be careful, nothing like that. But I would say that just in general terms and this is nothing anyone hasn't heard or maybe they're hearing it for the first time you know you start with a connection, you know, and just kind of let that build up over time. I find like, if you go right in for the kill shot, if you're like, hey, I want to connect, and the laundry list of requests you have, that tends to like be a little overwhelming, especially if you're you know you're busy, you got a lot going on and you're like, oh, I don're, you know you're busy, you got a lot going on, and you're like I don't, you know, I don't know if I can package this all together for this person right now. Not that I'm offended or anything like that. So I would say you know, you always keep the request small, connect short, little note. Hey, I see we have a lot in common. I like to connect. I mean I would say I would avoid the solicitors. Like I'm at the stage where I get a lot of solicitor requests and I'll accept the request and the minute I do it's right to the sales pitch and then I just end up deleting it and I remove that connection. I would say just small, you know, like folks content. You know you kind of get that back and forth relationship going where I'll kind of, hey, I like what they put here and you know they posted here and I'll make a comment.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't spend an inordinate amount of time on on social media, linkedin, those sorts of things. I do have it because I realized it's important. But I'm very like, disciplined in my approach to it in that like, hey, I want to post Tuesday through Thursday and I try to post one thing and no more than three things in a week and no more than one thing in a day, and I usually do it the first thing when I wake up in the morning. It takes me about five, 10 minutes get it out of the way and then that generally leads to folks connecting with me. I see other people's content, the back and forth that happens, but it's kind of like organic over time. I think is the best approach.
Speaker 2:And don't be afraid to connect with people, because a lot of people you know they're busy, they don't see it, so maybe they don't accept your connection request. And it's not so much a personal thing. It's a I gotta be honest, I don't spend a whole lot of time connecting with a whole lot of folks. I get a lot of connection requests now, but it's, it's a tool. It's a networking tool, whether people realize it or not, and networking is such an important part of of of that transitional journey, is such an important part of that transitional journey.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of people think, well, I used to have a captain who worked for me and said you know, my performance should speak for itself. That gets me the job, my next job, and to an extent, yes, but even in the military it doesn't work that way. You know, networking in your group, if you will, your network is important even there in the military. So I think sometimes there's a negative connotation with folks who aren't as comfortable with it. But when I say, like the majority of the opportunities are the great opportunities you're going to get in the private sector outside of the military, like your ability to network is going to be very important, Face-to-face networking and or social media networking.
Speaker 1:And you know I've said it before, but I really believe that building a network is like a snowball rolling downhill, like it may start really small and it may take a lot of time to get down the mountain and grow, and that's why I truly believe you've got to start the process of building a network years before you need it, right?
Speaker 2:So like you can't, oh, yeah, and you got to maintain it and you got to make it can't. Yeah, I see this all the time. Folks get out of the military, they're transitioning and they're like the LinkedIn warriors and then you know when they found their first job? Because they disappear. You don't see anything from them anymore and that's fine. I'm not saying, hey, linkedin is where it's at, but I'm just saying like, hey, I wonder, did they go cold and staying in touch with their network outside of LinkedIn too? Because, like, you want to keep your network warm, not just when you need it, you know, and you want it to, and networking is mutually beneficial, right? So there's some times where you're helping someone and there's times where they're helping you, and so you need to keep that, keep that warm. I'm kind of at a point now where I feel like I spent a lot of time helping folks, because I don't necessarily need as much in terms of what I'm doing right now, but it's still a way to stay connected and a way to stay connected to the veteran community at large as well. So that's just a point too.
Speaker 2:Another point I would tell folks is the resume ties into this, because I hear a lot of folks. You know they get frustrated about the resume and I've been there, I get it. You know I've had the resume writers, the quote-unquote professional resume writers. I've had. You know the non-profits help you know I I've had and you'll hear folks say, oh, you got a tailor, or oh, you got to have general and what I found. Like anytime someone looked at my resume, if I showed it to a hundred people I'd get a hundred different responses of red ink, of what I needed to do to my resume. And you're kind of you don't want to chase the resume monster.
Speaker 2:I always tell folks, if you are doing the relationship part, if you're doing the networking part very well, the relationship part, if you're doing the networking part very well, the resume can often be like an afterthought in terms of you've networked so well and it's like, oh, by the way, get me your resume. It's kind of part of the formality for HR, you know. But but they know you don't have to necessarily be overly worried about how well it's. It's know translated from military to civilian speak. Or is it overly translated to civilian speak, to where nobody can figure out what I did in the military, because that's also a bad thing too.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say a bad thing, but that also can be, you know, a limiting factor. So you have all those things I tell people like if you're spending all your time worried about your resume, you could, if you can only do one focus on the networking piece. And if you're networked in and plugged in really well, the resume piece kind of becomes a I don't want to say an afterthought, but it's like a hey, get that to me so I can get it to HR. But they already know who you are at that point.
Speaker 1:Listen, I, I am a resume writer and I tell people that it's not the most important part of your job search, and that's how I make my living. Outside of this podcast is and it's not. It's not the end, all be all. It's not the one and only thing that you need. It is just one part of the puzzle.
Speaker 2:You're absolutely right, so yeah, I've had five different resume. Writers can be five different. Yeah, you know, you know it was difficult.
Speaker 1:It'll make you crazy, because I think resumes are opinion-based, right. They're very subjective and the one thing I'll tell everybody that's listening if you haven't heard me say this before if someone gives you advice on your resume, always ask why? Ask that strategic, why? And if they say, well, that's just the way I like to do it, that's not advice, that is an opinion, right. And so if there's a strategic reason, they can say do it like this, because here and this and this and this will happen. If you do that's different. That's somebody that has actionable knowledge that can help you improve that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, well, to close on that thing, the resume is important and you have to have a good, well-written resume. But if you're trying to use the resume as a standalone to get that job you want, chances are you're not going to get that dream job you want on a standalone resume that you submit to a faceless system and you're a faceless candidate. The folks that are getting those jobs are getting them through being networked in and then the resume comes.
Speaker 1:And you know, just like you said, like you're not a transition expert and the reason is because you have your way. That worked your way, and I can tell you stories about people that networked their way in. I can tell you stories about people that someone came to them through LinkedIn. I can tell you stories about somebody who just facelessly submitted their resume, and so all of these things work and that's why you need a multi-pronged approach to the job search.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Right, there's no one size fits all approach to it.
Speaker 1:Yep. So, and I think that's important and that's why I want to tell these stories of people, because I think that you know, first and foremost, I think there are people out there that are frustrated, like this isn't working and they feel like they're the only ones that it's not working for. And, secondly, I just want people to know that, you know, just to keep trying different things, right? So and I just want to go back to something that you had talked about which I think is really important I just want to bring it home is that when you're, when you have a mentor, it's a personal relationship, right?
Speaker 1:Like that person is personally invested in you and that's not going to happen from one message on LinkedIn, right? So you've got to nurture that relationship, you've got to build that up and and you've you, they, they receive one message from you. Are they going to be willing to invest that time in you and nurture you and go to bat for you and help you? Or should you take the time to build a relationship with that person first? And that takes time, and that's why you've got to start so early, right, and help you. Or should you take the time to build a relationship with that person first, and that takes time, and that's why you've got to start so early, right.
Speaker 2:It does. And I will tell you that I have a. I have a Marine aviator name is Mike, retired Marine aviator, and he comes to my store once a month for reps. He's well into the selection process for Chick-fil-A. But when he first reached out to me, I gave him the advice and was like, okay, yeah, no, I'm here in the process. Okay, that's great. And that led to more back and forth. Then it led to okay, why don't you come by the store and I'll meet you, just me, and you will have something to eat.
Speaker 2:And I'm kind of vetting him at that point too, before like, hey, am I comfortable with putting him in front of some of my leaders? And then am I comfortable with letting him come into my restaurant and get some touch points that he wants to get and he needs to get for the selection committee or the selection folks at chick-fil-a. So he can you know, he can tell, help, tell his story better of his candidacy. Right, because you own your candidacy and so that that you're, you're absolutely correct that that happened over time. And one of the things I do too is I'm never rude but I'll push back. Especially if it's like the request is big, I'll push back a little bit to see how they respond, almost to see like, hey, is there, is there some grit to this person? Are they just going to go away? You know, because I will tell you that the selection process at CFA is not for the faint of heart, especially for a pure external coming off the street, and it's a long process and it's going to require some endurance and grit and stick to it in this. And if you're going to go away based on me pushing back a little bit on an exchange on social media, or I'm not on our on a message on social media, or I'm not on our on a message through social media, then you know that that can be very telling.
Speaker 2:Uh, and so in mike's case, he was like pretty persistent and I was like, all right, let's, let's get, let's get him in here. And so he comes in. But now it's at the point where he doesn't even communicate with me. He'll communicate to my training leader and go hey, I'd like to come, come in on this Monday and I really want to see what an opening looks like. I really want to see what this looks like. I want to see what it's like to put away the truck, you know, and so he has a list of things that he wants to see so he can help craft his talking points when he talks to you know someone from selections about hey, how's your candidacy going? What have you learned? What have you been doing?
Speaker 2:Because, as an external, it's really hard, because you didn't grow up in Chick-fil-A. You got to build relationships that are going to help network you, to get these touch points that you're going to need to show that you're serious about this. And so you talked about the mentor piece Words matter, lori. And so, like, when I think mentor, I think of the mentorship process through.
Speaker 2:You know the military right, I'm a military guy and I think about how much time that takes and how much the relationship takes to build up both. You know I've been a mentor and a mentee. So when someone says, hey, I'm considering this process and I want you to mentor me, I'm almost taken aback by it, because I'm like Whoa, like that's a really big ask and commitment from someone you don't even know. Um, and then I would say I would also say is um, don't just look at things and think like, oh, wow, that seems like that person really stepped in it and it's going great for them, and I can easily do that too, because behind every nice picture and story you know, there was years of of hard work and slug and to get to that point right. I always tell people there's no overnight successes and so it just takes time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I was thinking about that. You know the glacier, you know like the iceberg, if you will like there's only that little tiny bit peeking out at the top. That's the success and nobody sees what's underneath the surface and all the hard work. So you mentioned the chick-fil-a process. Right, and I know you don't speak for chick-fil-a I'm here on the show but can you just give us a little bit of a glimpse? And you've talked a little bit about it, but like, what's the selection process? Like to be able to be a Chick-fil-A franchisee?
Speaker 2:So I always lead with. I don't speak for Chick-fil-A, so I don't. I can't tell you. This is A to Z the Chick-fil-A selection process. What I can tell you from my perspective was it was made very clear that you own your candidacy. This is your candidacy, nobody else's. What you do with it is what you do with it. I would tell people you know you're not going to get a lot of feedback along the way, and it makes sense, right, there's legal protections in there, there's all kinds of things that come into play. So if things aren't going your way, you don't feel like you're getting the feedback you should get. That's just that. You'd find that anywhere. You would find that anywhere.
Speaker 2:Um, but what I will say is like it starts very much feeling like the normal interview, the normal paperwork, and it morphs into you're building relationships and they're getting to know you over time and they'll tell you we're selecting a business partner, which they are. You don't work for Chick-fil-A, you're an independent business owner. Are we a good marriage in terms of being a business partner? Because at Chick-fil-a, like they'll make it very clear, like they want you to do this, they want you to do this forever. They don't want you to just do this for a couple years. And you know, I mean, folks do they do that. Yeah, I guess, I, I guess their stories and you hear some folks coming and going, but by and large, when folks become operators, they that's what they want. Like I couldn't see myself doing anything at this point other than being a chick-fil-a operator, um and so, uh, that's what I would tell people, like, yes, you're always being interviewed, yes, there's always, it's very competitive. All those things, all the things you kind of hear.
Speaker 2:There's some substance to it, like you know, tens upon tens of thousands of applicants for relatively very small number of restaurants, and you know you're not just competing internally and externally, you're competing against the. You know the broad population. You have internal candidates, external candidates, so you have all those things, yeah, and, and I personally think there's a little bit of luck and timing involved in it too. You know, the timing has got to be right for you, it's got to be right for the organization, right, um, I would say that there's not. Everything Chick-fil-A does is very deliberate, so there's no haphazardness to it, um, but but there is an element, believe of luck and timing, just because the numbers are so vast, and like, I'm sure, I'm sure there's some really good folks that get passed on, but man, there's some really great folks that get selected. So, like the folks that I work with and my peers, you can see it you're like, okay, this person's pretty sharp's pretty sharp, you know so. But in terms of the the process, like look, you can go on open source and google and try to find some things out.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, there's some former chick-fil-a employees like dan and diana turner wrote this book. Bet on talent. I read them all. I read that book, like you know, in depth, right before I applied. Truett Cathy has written numerous books the founder of Chick-fil-A and they're all great, easy, short reads and you could really get into the inside of the heart of Chick-fil-A and what Chick-fil-A is looking for in their owner-operators better than I could articulate. And I tell someone if you're really serious about it, go down that path, read those books and it'll become very clear to you kind of what folks are looking for.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I think the main point is it's very competitive. It's not a quick process.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Which is you know something you have to be ready for, and I will share this.
Speaker 2:I have a friend that you know something you have to be ready for, and I will share this. I have a friend that you know. He kind of saw on LinkedIn like, hey, they posted in Tampa, that must mean they need people in Tampa. I'm like, well, they want good people everywhere, but don't ever assume that they need people. Like there's that that queue was long, brother, and uh.
Speaker 2:And so it was like hey, how can you help me expedite this? Should I call them and say how do I speed this up? And I said hey, man, that's the worst thing you can do. I was like there's no easy way through this. Like you're going to have to run the gauntlet and you're going to have to do the things and you're going to have to go through it. This is what you really want to do. And, as your good friend, I'm telling you this because I want you to be successful Like I can't make a phone call to somebody who's like you're a good dude, yeah, and you kind of go to the front of the food line. That's not how it works. Nor do I want it to work that way, because that's not how it worked for me, right.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I think that you know you mentioned, like you know, you got to run the gauntlet, you've got to go through the process and I feel like the military kind of uniquely prepared you for this situation in a lot of ways. And like what do you think it is about your military service that helped you be a better business owner, a better Chick-fil-A franchise operator?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the majority of my military background was as an Army aviator. So I flew Apaches on the conventional side. Then I, you know, I spent close to a decade in the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the Night Stalkers and you know the model of the regiment is Night Stalkers, don't quit right. So that mindset is very apparent. It's almost a stubbornness of not giving up and not quitting. You know, to the point of like, are we really going to do this? You know, and so, and I always tell people you know, you led at echelon from company to battalion. But then you had these staff positions or logistics officer, operations officer, you know, very checklist oriented, very maintenance and production control oriented, and that really it kind of paints a picture and draws you. So for me I had this backgrounds of systems and processes and production control and maintenance and, you know, flying hours. The list goes on and on. And then you add in I had this business experience with, with great clips on the PNL side and some other things. It just started to become a really good fit for what I do at Chick-fil-A because you know a lot of it is no difference. You have production control, you have quality control in the kitchen. You have all these systems and processes and then it's you know, the the um, the EQ side of it, and I would say, you know, we'd always say, in special operations, people are more important than hardware. We had all this great the EQ side of it and I would say, you know, we'd always say, in special operations, people are more important than hardware. We had all this great hardware and all this great technology and all these great budgets, but at the end of the day, you still had to relate to people, motivate people, especially in that unit where, yes, there was rank, but I mean a flight lead is a warrant officer who does not outrank the commander, but the flight lead leads the mission and the commander. The commander could very well just be one of the pilots on the mission. You know so, so you had to.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of in that world of learning through influence, not so much direct. You will do this or if you will Cause what I learned in the private sector. When I say the private sector, generally talk about the civilian side in general. Like it's unlike the military, nobody gives the knife hand and tells people what to do. Things are kind of implied and the people who pick up on the implied nature of what needs to happen, do very well, and then those who you know choose to well, nobody explicitly told me to do it, so i'm'm not going to do it. They tend to not do as well, you know. So there's a little bit of that nature to it.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of you got to as a business owner. You have to be able to do short range forecasting, long range forecasting for your business, and that's all stuff that was instilled in me in the military for your business, and that's all stuff that was instilled in me in the military. Short range, you know plan and cycle. Long range plan and cycle. You know the flying hour program, forecasting, that, readjusting the mix. All those things that you do in business you do do in the military. So I always tell people it's not that you didn't have the experiences that are important, it's reapplying and then thinking about what's important. And I'll share this with you, laurie, I think I told you this. I wanted to. I wanted to wow people, especially in the selection process with hey.
Speaker 2:I was a special operations battalion commander of a thousand folks. You know I sat at the head of the table giving given commands and orders and, and you can see, folks definitely respected that and everything. And then one guy, my friend, david, he's a friend of mine now he's on the selection team, he's a senior guy now on the selection team. But he said, what does that actually mean, mike? And I was like, what do you mean? And he goes well, how many direct reports did you have? And direct reports are. You know, that's a thing out here.
Speaker 2:And when we got down to it, my direct reports weren't close to a thousand. So we like to take credit for all these thousand people that we impact but, truth be told, we impact about a handful. That impact, that impact down at Echelon and so and so so. But when I started talking about global force realignment and you know flying hour mixes and reallocating and then building that budget and then you know globally realigning forces from this theater to that theater and you know strategic air and all the things I did as a regimental operations officer, like I started to light up and I was like I did as a regimental operations officer, like I started to light up and I was like, okay, that was a real light bulb moment for me of like, hey, no, all this stuff matters, I just need to reapply it differently and the most important experiences I had to them may not be what I think is the most important experiences that I had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really. I just loved hearing you talk about what made you kind of uniquely qualified for what you do, because I think what my most passionate thing is about teaching people coming out of the military to reframe their skills and experience in a way that will make them valuable to their future employer. Right, that's that's what I do, that's what I love to do for with people, and so I remember you and I talked like you. You had your doubts, like is my military experience even applicable? And you know you had that experience with your friend, that that you know who's someone who's become your friend now, and I think it's I really like how you said it. I just had to learn how to reframe it, how to use it in a different way. You have those skills, you have that knowledge. You just have to maybe change how you talk about it.
Speaker 2:You just have to change how you apply it and I think absolutely lori, and I think with that is, I thought that my most important experiences would be hey, I just commanded this battalion. Because we are very title and rank oriented in the military. I also think when folks are going for jobs, there's not a really none of us have I didn't have there's not a really good grasp of, like what does compensation look like outside of the uniform, and so we think that the highest compensated jobs come with the rank and the titles and obviously those are highly compensated jobs out there. So we maybe to go well, I was kind of I think there's VP equivalent here, so I should try to be a VP equivalent there. And you do hear this a lot and I know it may sound patronizing to some, but it's true Like if a VP of any business or corporation came into a recruiting office and said I have all this great experience for the past 20 years, 10 years, 15 years. Therefore I'm equivalent to this and I want to be a battalion commander, even a company commander, or a first sergeant or a platoon sergeant. We'd be like well, that's not really how it works.
Speaker 2:The same holds true in the private sector. Well, that's kind of not really how it works. I'm not saying that there's absolutism in there. I'm not saying that folks don't make those leaps right away, because there's all kinds of examples of folks doing that, but by and large they don't. And I'm not saying that everybody wants to make that leap right away. I think they think it's tied to compensation, and what I tell folks is like you would be blown away by how well compensated individual contributors in the private sector are that are very good at their job. It would be eyeopening to folks and I think if folks had a better grasp of that then they would have a, and part of it is we just don't know what's out there, because it's such a big world and there's so many opportunities. What I tell folks is start with where you absolutely don't want to live, because the military has always told you where you're going to live.
Speaker 2:If you know like that's a hard no for me, that's great Cause that helps make the opportunities more manageable. And if you absolutely know what you don't want to do as opposed to what you do want to do, that's good. The other caution I tell people is, if it's something you in your mind you say you absolutely don't want to do, have a really good understanding what that is before you rule it out, because it may be a really great opportunity that you don't have a firm understanding of. Like you always hear all the time, I don't want to do sales, I don't want to do sales and I tell people I'm like guys, sales is what drives the American economy.
Speaker 2:If you want to be that VP someday, if you want to be in these positions someday, that you aspire to look at that tree where they came from, and an overwhelming majority come from sales. So sales, I think, sometimes has a dirty connotation to some transitioning service members. But you and I both know there's all kinds of sales. Right, there's B2B, there's this kind of I'm in sales. Right, I sell chicken. There's all kinds of sales. But somebody has to sell a product for a company to make money out here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. This has been such a great conversation. Mike, I really appreciate you taking the time from selling chicken to come talk to me and I just wanted I know you have like just some parting words you want to leave us with before we wrap up today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in closing and I shared this message with new Chick-fil-A operators that are just taking the mantle of that leadership, and I've shared this I share this message with transitioning service members I always tell folks hey, look, I do not want to be the person you come away from a conversation or a talk with or a panel with that is going to be Mr Negative and it's all hard. And I tell people you're going to do well, you're going to do great and you're going to be fine. You really are.
Speaker 2:And the anxiety and the stressors that you feel right now, I felt them. If anyone says they don't feel them, they're being disingenuous. It's normal and it's okay. And each day that passes from this day forward, it gets better. But just know that, like you're always in some kind of transition, there isn't like, hey, I'm going to transition out of the military, I'm going to get to that job and that's the finish line and everything's going to be good.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've moved. We're in our third home since I've retired in five years. We rented for a year, then we lived in a home in Pennsylvania for three years and now we're in Northern Virginia and I do think this is our landing spot for a long time, by the way. But I'm just saying there's just these things along the way and just be OK with that. And most veterans will be the overwhelming majority will be because we've always had to roll with the punches our whole career up until this point. It's no different. But the closing words are hey, you're going to be fine, you're going to do well, you're going to find what success is for you. You're going to find, and it may take a little bit of time, but just don't give up, stick with it and you'll do well.
Speaker 1:Excellent advice. I appreciate you sharing your story with us today. Thank you so much, Mike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wonderful, thank you, my pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to today's episode. My goal is to give you actionable strategies to help you learn to market your military skills and smooth your transition to the next phase of your career. If you learned something valuable today, share it. Subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel, leave us a review and write a post on social media about the lessons that helped you today from this episode.