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Lessons Learned for Vets
Lessons Learned for Vets
Demystifying the ATS: How to Get Your Resume Past the "Robot" with Marisol Maloney
Ever felt like your carefully crafted resume disappeared into the void of an applicant tracking system? You're not alone. In this myth-busting conversation, Navy veteran, defense industry recruiter and resume writer Marisol Maloney pulls back the curtain on what really happens when you hit "submit" on that job application.
"The ATS bot that's rejecting you is me and the other human bots doing it," Marisol reveals, immediately dispelling the common misconception that faceless algorithms are solely responsible for application rejections. Throughout our conversation, she provides a refreshingly transparent look at how recruiters actually use these systems. They use them not to eliminate candidates, but to organize and track them through the hiring process.
For transitioning military members, timing is everything. Applying too early (6-8 months before separation) almost guarantees rejection, as most employers need to fill positions within 30 days. Marisol shares the perfect application timeline: use your first year to determine what you want to do next, the following six months to network heavily, and only start actively applying 2-3 months before your availability date.
We dive deep into resume strategy, debunking the concept of "keyword stuffing" and exploring what effective tailoring actually means. "If you're spending over an hour tailoring your resume," Marisol explains, "you're either not understanding the assignment or you're not qualified for that role." Her practical advice includes limiting yourself to five targeted applications weekly rather than "papering the world" with hundreds of generic resumes.
Perhaps most valuable is Marisol's perspective on translating military experience for civilian employers. The imposter syndrome that plagues many veterans often stems from difficulty articulating their value, not from any lack of skills. "Just because you can't translate your skills doesn't mean you don't have them," she emphasizes, encouraging veterans to think beyond their military responsibilities and focus on transferable capabilities.
Listen now to transform your job search strategy with insider knowledge from someone who reviews military resumes daily, and discover why the most important person to write your resume for isn't an ATS system—it's the human on the other side.
You can connect with Marisol Maloney at https://https://www.linkedin.com/in/marisol-maloney//
Subscribe to our YouTube channel at https://tinyurl.com/llforvets22
Subscribe to the podcast and leave us a 5-star review. Please share this with other veterans who might need help as they transition from the military!
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The Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast is sponsored by Seek Now and their Drive Academy. Seek Now is the property inspection industry's leading business and they created Drive Academy DoD SkillBridge and CSP internships to teach transitioning military service members and veterans skills that prepare them for lucrative and rewarding careers in the property inspection and insurance industries. You can learn more and apply today at www.internwithdrive.com.
Welcome to the Lessons Learned for Vets podcast, your military transition debrief. I'm your host, lori Norris, and I've helped thousands of military service members successfully transition out of the military since 2005. Thanks for tuning in to hear the after action reports and real stories of your fellow veterans, who are here to help guide, educate and inform you as you navigate your own military transition. By the way, if you find value from today's episode, please share it with others, leave us a review and post about us on social media.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Lessons Learned for Vets podcast. I am so happy to welcome back my friend, my colleague, the secret squirrel hunter herself, marisol Maloney. Marisol is a US Navy veteran, a military spouse, a resume writer and a recruiter for a defense contracting company, and a few weeks ago I was part of an event where Marisol and another recruiter were sharing their insights into just the ATS and the hiring process, and the information was so valuable. I asked Marisol if she would come on and talk about a couple of really important points for me and my listeners. So welcome back, marisol. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you. I feel like we talk so often. We should just record ourselves every time we talk. Well, maybe that wouldn't be a good idea, right.
Speaker 2:Nothing will get done Exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so let's get into it Really. Let's talk about the ATS, because people often talk about like, oh, you got to get a resume that'll beat the bots and I talk a lot about this. There is no real mythical robot that's shooting down your resume. There's no bot that you need to beat. So when we were in the event, you said, all right, I'm going to share with you the super secret way, the best way to beat the applicant tracking software system, and can you tell us about what that is today?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the applicant tracking system is just that it helps recruiters track applicants, and so whenever a new applicant applies to one of the roles I have available, I'll get an email alert saying Lori Norris, just apply to your all-source Intel analyst roles and I click on it and I look at the application, I look at the resume, for the things that I'm looking for is a top secret clearance usually, and then the requirements listed in the job description and if Lori meets the requirements, I will message her, ask her for a time to do a phone screen. We'll do the phone screen and then, if everything checks out, then the next step is to move them forward to the hiring manager. So then I track the steps that the candidate is in within the applicant tracking system. I also take notes on there. So say they missed our call or they missed our interview with the hiring manager, that will be documented in the applicant tracking system and I track from beginning to end, from all the way to disposition, why they were dispositioned. Maybe they didn't meet the requirements or, yeah, they didn't show up for the interview. That's another one, but that rarely happens in my my case, but I know it happens a lot to other recruiters. Also, if you were rejected because maybe you didn't meet the requirements, your application and your resume stays in the system. So in the event that another opportunity becomes available in which you do meet the requirements, then I will reach back out and say, hey, I know you didn't meet the requirements for the last row it didn't work out, but I have this new opportunity that I think you'd be a great fit for, because we're looking for X, y and Z and you have X, y and Z. So I tell them why I'm reaching out and they'll either say, yes, I'm interested. I'll say no, thank you, I already found another job. That's just how it is. But it's all about how we communicate using the applicant tracking system and I can also message the hiring manager. I can forward that application to the hiring manager. Then they can message me back and say, yes, let's set up an interview. So it really is a resource for the recruiters. It has nothing to do with the applicants themselves. You just apply and then you bring the goods, we review it and we'll either say yes or no. So the ATS bot that's rejecting you is me and the other human bots that are doing it.
Speaker 2:I know people get confused with the instant rejection. Sometimes that can happen. Say, you're applying at 10 o'clock at night on a Saturday. Sometimes it is the recruiter, because I have a very flexible schedule, so sometimes I am reviewing resumes at 10 o'clock at night on a Saturday. Sometimes it is the recruiter, because I have a very flexible schedule, so sometimes I am reviewing resumes at 10 o'clock at night on a Saturday, so I might be the one rejecting your application.
Speaker 2:But there's also another process that recruiters can use and it's to set up the ATS to do knockout questions, knockout questions, just disqualifying candidates that don't have the right skill. So for example again in my case I'm looking for top secret cleared candidates. So if the questionnaire, the application, says do you have a clearance or do you have a top secret clearance, and you answer no, then that's an automatic rejection. There's no need to go forward. You don't meet that basic requirement that the government client is looking for. So a lot of these requirements are set forth by the employer, not by the recruiter, and the knockout questions can either be set forth by the recruiter or by the hiring manager. It depends on who's managing the applicant tracking system. In my case I can set it. I just choose not to, because sometimes I'll have applicants that have a secret clearance and once in a while I'll have roles that require a secret. So I like to review all the applications that come in, but I will review the pile that is eligible for the roles.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, in effect, the best way to beat the ATS spot is To be qualified Exactly.
Speaker 2:Just read the job description. A lot of people get overwhelmed with all the job description that they're reading. They're applying to hundreds and maybe even thousands. I know this gentleman. He applied to like 2000 roles in an 18 month period and was rejected for all of them. Resume wasn't tailoring it and just spamming everybody. Just he was certain he was qualified, which maybe he was.
Speaker 2:But if you can't showcase that you are qualified, then you're going to get rejected, and this happens a lot with transitioning military. They have the skills. I know because I coach him through the job process and resume writing and so they have the skills. They just tend to focus on listing their previous military responsibilities, like leading a team of 20. That's great, but what did that team do and what else did you do besides lead? Yes, we all have leadership and management experience, but can you do cybersecurity analysis? Can you do intel analysis? Can you do project management? Can you do logistics, supply chain? So those are the things that you need to articulate, depending on what role you're seeking. Next and read the job description carefully. The job description literally tells you what they're looking for. That should be your SOP. So if it says looking for project managers with 10 years of experience working with the Department of Defense, then your summary section should say something along those lines and just get to the point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just matching them right, and so I think that sometimes people wear that badge of honor like I applied for 2,000 jobs and nobody said yes, and I feel like that means you're doing something wrong. Instead of applying for 2,000 jobs with the same resume, why don't you apply to 20 jobs and create 20 resumes that are focused and targeted to each role and company, take more time with each application, instead of just kind of papering the world with the same resume and hoping for the best right?
Speaker 2:Exactly, and then when you apply to so many roles, you don't remember what you've applied for. So oftentimes you know I'll get an application, so I get one today and I'll reach out to them today and say, hey, are you available tomorrow or the following day? They'll say yes. Out to them today and say, hey, are you available tomorrow or the following day? They'll say yes. So I'll call them the next day and they'll say, what is this job for? Again, and it's just a bad look, and I have yet to have one of those candidates actually be a good fit, because they really don't know what they want. So it does work against you if you have no idea what roles you apply for and I get it Sometimes if you apply to roles, roles you may not find out till like three weeks later, four weeks later, while recruiter will call you. But you should still be organized and keep track of the roles that you've applied for. So what I tell people is try to apply to no more than five roles per week. Like really tailor those roles, those your resume to those roles, and tailoring.
Speaker 2:What I found out for many people is that they don't understand what tailoring means. They think that tailoring means rewriting the whole resume, which is not true. The example I used in the conference was you know, if a role says must have hot dog eating experience, then write a bullet about your hot dog eating experience. Use metrics I ate 100 hot dogs per month. And if another role says must have experience eating hamburgers, you just swap out that bullet. And that's what I mean by tailor. It should be a quick fix, it shouldn't. You shouldn't be spending over an hour, it should be like no more than 15 minutes. And if you're spending a lot of time tailoring your resume to every role that you're applying for, then either you didn't understand the assignment or you're not qualified for that role.
Speaker 1:Yep, I think that's a good you know, and I love that. I remember the other. Someone else chimed in and was like how about, if you said I was the champion hot dog eater? I was, you know, awarded, you know, number one champion hot dog eater out of 20 hot dog eaters.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think you really can put a metric and an accomplishment to just about anything, which I think that's a silly example, but it's really true.
Speaker 1:And I think that really shows that, like you say, if you're taking, you know, rewriting the whole resume, you didn't start with a targeted resume to begin with and you and I both very much believe in writing focused, targeted resumes, and so you've got to have know what you're doing first, and then it should just be like window dressing and, you know, targeting and focusing it to the specific job, the specific requirements of the job and also the company's needs. And I feel like some of that targeting is the research like let's look into the company and figure out like I feel like some of that targeting is the research Like, let's look into the company and figure out like, what are their needs, what's going on in their world, how can we showcase that we can add value to them, so I love that. So remember if you eat hot dogs, if they want you to eat hot dogs, put hot dogs not you know and how many you ate and how often, and what?
Speaker 2:the results were resulted in gaining 20 pounds.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's a metric there you go, you, but you did it right, so there you go. So I remember when we were talking about um recruiters using ats's, and people really are frustrated and I think it's because they don't understand the behind the scenes of the ATS, which I really appreciated, you and Amy showing us some information about kind of that behind the scenes of the ATS. And people are like, oh, recruiters are so lazy using ATS. And I remember Amy said, like asking a recruiter to not use an ATS is like asking an accountant to not use Excel, right, and it's a tool of what they do. And I think people believe that recruiters are using an ATS in lieu of themselves, right, and so they're thinking that the recruiter isn't really reading resumes or reviewing applications. And so I really wanna talk about, like you told us a little bit about kind of what the ATS is, but tell me, like, how you're applying it, how are you using it and where do you see people making the mistake with the ATS?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's where I track all the applications and, as I mentioned, I take notes on there. And, as I mentioned, I take notes on there. We also use it to send offer letters, using the ATS and just communicating with the candidate, and I can communicate with the hiring managers. We can also track our own metrics, our own goals in that system. I write job requisitions and then I post them and then it links them to third party job boards and so you know people can also message us that way. So when I post a role in ATS, it'll show up on Indeed or LinkedIn or clearance jobs wherever my company has the license to to post. And that's pretty much it how I use it.
Speaker 2:But I know other recruiters may have other ai features that they use. Um, for us one of the ai features is it helps you write the job description, but because I have to follow the statement of work that the government has, I just do it myself. I don't I don't mess with the ai stuff, but maybe some recruiters do. It just depends. But the main thing is that we use it to track candidates and then every stage of the process and that's really really it as far as, like, the candidates are concerned, but everything else is for the recruiter.
Speaker 1:What about, like keyword matching and ranking people's keyword matches? Do you use it for that?
Speaker 2:No, I don't. My ATS does have the ability to rank people, abc. I have that feature off because it doesn't work very well. When I first started recruiting for the company, I noticed that it was giving people a grade of C that were more than qualified for the role and vice versa. So I was giving people A's that didn't meet the requirements. So I started analyzing what the difference was and I noticed that, yeah, some people were stuffing their resumes with keywords like, say, all source analysts. It said all source analysts throughout the resume, and maybe the one that rated as a C only mentioned it once, but it had the years of experience, it had metrics and it was beautiful, and so I turned it off because I found it to be distracting and not useful.
Speaker 2:Are there recruiters that use it? Probably, but to me that's kind of lazy recruiting, especially if you don't follow up and actually read to make sure that they do meet their requirements. And then you set up the phone screen. So then you still need to call so say they were using those tools. You still have to call the candidate and find out if the stuff in the resume is legit or not. So the resume is still being read by a recruiter.
Speaker 2:So even if they were using these filters, the recruiter still has to read the resume and make the decision to call or not call the applicant and then, after screening them, make the decision to forward them to the HR or not, depending on how that conversation goes. Because that's what the screening call is for to find out more information to make sure you really meet the requirements, because the resume is just a marketing tool. You want to have enough information on there for the recruiter to want to call you and then, once they call you, you can explain more what's going on. But just dumping a bunch of keywords and then not explaining how you used those keywords like maybe you're calling out a database and then you just say you have experience using it, but then you don't explain how you used it it may not work in your favor. So the more information you can give in a concise manner, the better it is for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, I want to call back to a couple of things you said earlier, and I remember you mentioning this in the event is that you said you go, you shop in your ATS for candidates, and I know you mentioned that earlier. You said you know you'll, if you have a role, you'll go look through the people that are already housed in your ATS, and so if you don't get selected for a role, oftentimes people stay in the ATS and recruiters can go back and look for them, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, so actually I just recently got someone an offer letter that was a previous applicant. They were qualified but they weren't selected because the candidate that was ahead of them, they were just further along in the hiring process. Sometimes that happens you can still be qualified and still get a rejection email, but it's not because you weren't qualified, it's because someone else was just further along in the process and they got the offer letter before you did. That's just how it is. It's only one role, so someone has to get it. Out of 200 applicants, you know, one person gets it. I know that's not something people want to hear Like, but it's true. One role, one applicant.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't take it personal right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just move on to the next time. And when you get that rejection email, I mean I'm going off track here. But you know, be nice, either don't reply, which is fine, or say you know, thank you for your time, keep me in mind for future roles. But I've had other recruiters tell me that some people like insult them and just say vile things to them. And remember that gets documented in the applicant tracking system and also your. Your email reply gets stored in the applicant tracking system. So be careful what you tell people. Kind of like in the Navy, when you're talking to your detailer negotiating orders, they document everything. It's the same concept when dealing with recruiters they document everything that's said during the phone screen and even you know any messaging. So be mindful of how you approach recruiters.
Speaker 1:So be mindful of how you approach recruiters. So if you're unprofessional, like you don't show up for an interview, or you don't respond in a timely manner, or you're rude when you don't get the role, that all gets documented and that just burned a bridge for any future roles with your organization right.
Speaker 2:So far I've been pretty lucky, I think because of the top, to get cleared until professional. They're just different. They've all been pretty polite so I haven't had any issues with anyone yet. But I know other recruiters that recruit for non-intel roles. They they get insulted quite often.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay you mentioned um that you're, when you put out a job posting in your ats, that it sends it out to job boards like LinkedIn. And one of the things you guys talked about the other day was the easy apply button on LinkedIn and how you don't recommend people use that easy apply button. Can you explain that to me?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the easy apply button I think is fine for entry level roles, but if you're going for mid level or senior level roles, like most transit service members are, I recommend going to the company's website and filling out the actual application, because I'll get a lot of resumes sent to me from Indeed because I guess people sign up and it spits out resumes. It does like a keyword match to job description and it sends out your resume. The problem with that is it's not a legal document. You still need the application. So I can just reject your application because it's not a complete application. Just sending your resume is not necessarily going to get you a call.
Speaker 2:Okay, so make sure to go to the company website and apply directly. Find out what's required. So some jobs require a cover letter. If it requires a cover letter, add one. If it doesn't require one, don't add one. Only give them what is asked. Right, and when you do the easy apply, it doesn't give you that option. It just spits out your resume to whoever and you may need the actual application and the cover letter. So if those are, if those things are missing, then you're going to get rejected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's no way of knowing that with that easy apply button and that that's more of a, a LinkedIn backend or an Indeed backend thing, like they want to be able to say to the person that paid them to post their job. They're like like, look, I brought you a candidate, but they're not necessarily bringing those candidates in the most effective and efficient way, and so, instead of using that apply through that website, go to the company and use their website to apply, because then you can fill out an application, you can read the directions, you can see what they want you to upload. Now let's say that, um, I have this role that I found on linkedin. I go to their website and it's not posted there. Does that mean that the role is not really open? Maybe it's an older listing, or would you go ahead and at least use the easy apply in that situation?
Speaker 2:I will go to the website, because sometimes the information isn't updated. Sometimes some of these job boards will leave jobs open that closed probably three months ago, because I've seen that with some of our roles and then you have to contact them and say, hey, can you delete this because our role has been closed. So, yeah, I recommend going straight to the website. Some easy apply buttons do link you to the actual application so it'll take you to the actual website, which is good, but it doesn't do it every time, so you need to be mindful of that. So if it takes you to the actual website, you can verify those actual websites. Then, yeah, sure, use the easy apply, but just go straight to the website, just so you don't gamble you know, not getting your information seen by a recruiter.
Speaker 1:So use job boards to find potential roles and then go directly to the company. That's the best way to do it. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a fan of using LinkedIn and finding jobs and then going to the website, because sometimes you'll find other roles that are, you know, a better fit for you than what's listed.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and that's true. There might be multiple roles that you can apply to. Do you see anything wrong with someone applying to multiple roles for the same organization?
Speaker 2:It depends. Are they all in the same family? Now, if you're applying to my junior and mid-level and senior level analyst roles, there's a problem. Either you're junior or you're senior. And then you need to articulate that.
Speaker 2:If you are senior, why are you applying to junior level roles? Because you're going to get a junior budget. The salaries are different. So some people think, well, I'll just negotiate a higher salary. It doesn't work that way. The salaries and the budgets are set by the employer. So say, the junior level pays $80,000 and the senior level pays $150,000. You're not going to get the $150,000. If you apply for the junior role that pays $80,000 and you get accepted and get an offer letter, you're going to get the $80,000. So when you do that, it does send a red flag like you're just applying to everything and so your resume will be read and, depending on where it fits, that's where your resume will go, your application. So if you apply to all three that I see that your resume is more junior level, then I'll probably call you for the junior level role. So be mindful of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's really good advice. Knowing that that junior level isn't going to, you're not going to negotiate the salary higher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and people think that they can.
Speaker 1:Yep. So okay, good, that's good information. So let's talk about timing. When do you think is like the sweet spot for people who are transitioning out of the military? When should they start actively applying to open roles Actively?
Speaker 2:applying two to three months. But really about two months is the sweet spot, because a lot of roles are looking to hire you within 30 days, sometimes within two weeks, and that's the problem with a lot of service members are applying when they're like six, eight months out and they keep getting rejected after rejection, after rejection. So then it increases their anxiety because they don't understand the process. So, yes, you can start looking at roles like a year out, six months out, but actual, like actually applying to roles two to three months out, and then in your resume you should say available April 1st 2025. So that way the recruiter knows that you're not available right now. You're applying, but they'll keep you in mind if you meet a lot of the requirements. They may still call you in April if a role becomes available. So you need to articulate on your headline, on LinkedIn and also on your resume. That's like a bat signal to the recruiter, not to bother you but to still hold on to your resume for future opportunities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would always recommend putting an end date to your military service, even if it's in the future. And so then, on LinkedIn, put that at least in your about section and probably your last job. Tell them, because LinkedIn won't let you put a future date as an end date. So put it in the narrative of when you're explaining your work, your work experience, put it in there when you're available, when will your service commitment be complete and when can you start working? So exactly.
Speaker 2:exactly that's people know. I mean, they'll still call you, some will still call you just to get more information, but if you, if your end day shows us present, still they don't know if you're getting out today or a year from now, so they're just going to pass on you. And brings you to my next point.
Speaker 2:make sure you have an updated photo in your civilian attire so you don't use recruiters yeah, because then they'll think you're still on active duty and they'll just they're just going to pass on your profile okay, yep, time to take that uniform off.
Speaker 1:We need them to start seeing you as a civilian that they can hire, that they can have come to work for them. And it's not like you can just give two weeks notice to the military, like you can in the private sector. So it's important to give that end date, otherwise they're like you said, they may just pass on you. So, okay, good, um, so if I'm like six, seven months out and I I want to start looking around, do you think that's a good time, maybe to start networking right, so, like now, I can find open roles and maybe I can start connecting with people that are in that company and maybe having conversations about that role, so that when I am available then I can I've got that network built. So I really feel like that. You know we always talk about, oh, 18 to 24 months out, and people think, well, does that mean I'm supposed to job hunt that whole time? And definitely not right.
Speaker 1:But I think that first, you know that first year of the two years really should be spent on figuring out what you want to do next, focusing your job search, kind of self-assessing. What do I want to do next, doing your research, figuring out like I want to be a nurse, but I hate paperwork. That's not going to work out so well, right, as a nurse, but I hate paperwork that's not gonna work out so well, right, as a nurse. You know you do a lot of paperwork former nurse, I should say. So I think you know figuring out what you want to do next is that first year starting to network, building a presence on LinkedIn, and then that next six months is really getting you know, going hard on networking, and then that last six months is getting all of your final documentation ready to go, and the last three months really is your job hunting part, like where you're actively applying to jobs. So it's kind of a breakdown of that, that two year period.
Speaker 1:I just want you to know you don't need to be job hunting for two years. That's not what it's going to take. So, okay, got it. Thank you for that. So we you you mentioned it earlier right, like keywords and like kind of a stuffing the key, your resume with keywords. I think we talked about it as keyword salads the other day, where it looks like you took a bunch of words and you just threw it at the page and it doesn't make any sense, but it's full of keywords and people think that's the only thing that gets them through. So kind of tell us a little bit about this concept of that you know, keyword stuffing if you will, and how do we get around this issue but still make it through the ATS scan?
Speaker 2:Well, people write a skill section, which I recommend I like skill sections but they'll put like 20 skills on there that they list. It's ridiculous and then not explain them anywhere in the experience section. Or they might explain it once so you can say have experience in budgeting and project management, but then if you don't list it anywhere else in the job description or, I'm sorry, the the experience section, then the recruiter's gonna be like okay, don't meet the requirements yeah and unless they have, you know, if they don't have like a lot of applicants and they may spend a little more time on your resume, but usually they move fairly quickly.
Speaker 2:Um, they can read your resume like, scan it within 30 seconds and the first third of your, the page of your resume should highlight why you are qualified, or else they're going to move on to the next person and they're not looking. What they're looking for is disqualifiers. So, for example, I'm looking for a top secret clearance and a degree, because that's what the requirement says. You must have a degree, must have 10 years experience. And if I can't quickly see that you have a clearance or a degree, because that's what the requirement says you must have a degree, must have 10 years experience. And if I can't quickly see that you have a clearance or a degree it's not listed anywhere Then I have to move on to the next person, especially if I have like 200, 300 applicants for one job requisition.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'm managing up to 40 job requisitions. So you have to basically make your resume idiot proof. And if you're going to use keywords from the job description, then you still need to explain how you meet those skills and give an example and that's the reason I'm not a big fan of like those core competencies or key skills sections, because I feel like people just stuff those.
Speaker 1:It's like, you know, they're like trying to fit as much stuffing into the pillow as possible and instead let's integrate those throughout and let's tell stories about them and use examples and really talk about how we use those skills, and I think that's really important. I would say, the only time that's maybe if you're in the tech world right, like you're IT and you've got to put a bunch of technical terms in there, then that core competency section, I think is really important, or a technical summary, but for the most part, I think we can integrate our skill words into stories and examples, and it's why you know we don't just write managed projects, okay, great. So what Like did you do it? Well, how many projects did you manage? How many people did you?
Speaker 2:manage.
Speaker 1:What were the budgets that you managed? Right. So let's talk about it Instead of just saying I ate hot dogs, tell me how many hot dogs, tell me what brand of hot dogs you ate. You know, like going back to, like giving that information and details and the accomplishments that you achieved while you ate those hot dogs. Right, exactly, talk about Brent.
Speaker 2:I'm a fan of name dropping, especially in the government. We do work with a lot of organizations like General Electric, l3, harris, so if you supported those organizations, put it on your resume. It shows that you have experience supporting those kinds of clients and you've managed budget, especially more senior level people like the commanding officers, air wing commanders. They have a lot of experience managing budgets so, and it's in the millions usually, so we need to highlight those in the resume. And then some of the mid-level military they've managed inventory that were worth millions, especially in logistics and other projects, planning exercises. That's an expensive project, yeah. So those are things you can highlight, but people don't think to to do that.
Speaker 2:And I understand because you're thinking we all have tunnel vision I was guilty of. I was just like, okay, I'm an officer, this is my job, I've been tagged to do this task, I'm going to go execute. So I never saw myself as a project manager, program manager, change manager, stakeholder manager, all the big industry words that you know we need to use on our resumes. I wasn't thinking like that. I was just thinking my boss told me to go do something, so I went and did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And didn't really think about metrics. Yeah, so I understand. We all go through this and it doesn't matter what rank you could be an E3 or a flag officer. We all struggle with articulating our value on a corporate resume because that imposter syndrome comes out as hard. I know I had it bad, I was like textbook imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you think is the best way to get past that?
Speaker 2:Reflect on your time in the military and all the awesome stuff that you've done. Like I remember, you know, just reviewing my medals, I'm like, wow, I did some, some good stuff. And then, on deployment, then I was a speechwriter for four star combatant commander and I'm like that's not easy, but I did it. And again, at the time I had been voluntold to do this job, so it's not like I wanted to do it. And then that being a role that I really enjoyed, and I think that's why it helps me now with resume writing, because I'm able to scrub information from top secret to unclassed and it comes natural to me and I think it's just over the 20 years of experience of writing evaluations, writing awards, writing fit reps for people. So in a way I have been writing resumes, but they were military resumes for the past 20 years. And so then now transition as a civilian and working as a recruiter.
Speaker 2:It's easy for me to translate that information and that's something that it just comes with time and a lot of transition center members just don't know how to do that and so then they feel they're not worthy. Just because you can't translate your skills doesn't mean you don't have the skills. You just haven't figured out how to sell yourself. You are the product you need to market yourself. Sell yourself to that organization. But I promise you, guys and gals, you have the skills, you have the goods, you just need to showcase it.
Speaker 1:Yep, you just need to help, like digging them out, and that's what you and I both do, right? So Marisol and I have been working together for a couple of years. We've known each other for a few years, we both are resume writers, we kind of travel in these same circles and and both of us are really good at helping you figure that out, and I think both of us even do free you know webinars and you know volunteer our time, and so just look for the resources. They are out there, right? So give us your website, if you would your, for your resume writing services or your.
Speaker 2:How do you get in touch with you? It's a calendly um. So the link is on my LinkedIn profile. Okay, it says click here for resume services. So just click on the link and that'll take you to my Calendly.
Speaker 1:You are Secret Squirrel Consulting, right? Yes, that is your company name and I am Get Results Career Services, and both of us can help you do that if you need assistance, but there are a lot of resources out there available to you to do that.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot over 45,000 nonprofit organizations.
Speaker 1:Thankfully not all focused on the resume, because that would be confusing, but you know so, okay. So, as we're writing our resume, who do we write it for? Do we write it for the robot of the ATS or do we write it for the people doing the hiring, the people doing?
Speaker 2:the hiring, the recruiter. It's kind of like our evaluations and our fit reps in the military, oers, all that stuff. We don't write them for ourselves, we write them for the board that's determining our fate whether we're going to move on and make the next rank. It's similar with resumes You're writing it for another person, not for yourself. So people make the mistake of writing all the stuff they like that they did.
Speaker 2:Like I was a number one graduate of jump school. It's like, okay, that's great, but can you do cybersecurity, can you do a PowerPoint presentation? So people tend to put stuff on there that they think that sounds great but it may not actually be doing anything for them and then not necessarily may impress the hiring manager or the recruiter. But it could be a good talking piece during the interview. If you can make it to that round, you can talk about how you jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. But until then you need to really focus on the skills that are being asked for, listed at the job description. So focus on those skills first before listing all of the responsibilities that have nothing to do with what's being asked for in the job description.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. So you're not writing the resume for you, you're writing it for the person reading it, right? So you've got to put information on there that's relevant and important to them. And if you have room and you've covered all those, you want to put something cool about you. That you did, yeah, that's fine, that's totally fine. But yeah, you're right, you've got to cover the basics of the job requirements first.
Speaker 1:And I meet so many people and I think you talked about this too that they're like well, I have that skill. I'm like well, why isn't it on your resume? Where is that? And they're like oh, yeah, I forgot to put that on there. And so don't forget to sit down with the job posting, to sit down with the, your research of the company and just go like line by line and just say have I talked about this enough? I'm a big fan of the like the find, the find and replace feature on Microsoft Word and you just put those words in and it'll look for those. You know those phrases or keywords. And if you don't find them, okay, we've got to write about that, we've got to add that to the resume. So, yes, take the time to tailor it, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So exactly that's what recruiters are looking for. They're going line by line because a lot of these recruiters are not specialists in that field. I mean, you might be applying for an engineering role doesn't mean a recruiter has an engineering background, so they really are relying on the matching of the requirements with what's in your resume. I just happen to have an intelligence background as an Intel officer, so I know what Intel analysts do, and so when I see a resume that's not quite there, I can still read between the lines and I can call people and help them adjust their resumes that the hiring manager will hire. So again, you need to idiot proof your resume and show the recruiter why you are qualified for that role, because they're going to move on to the next veteran or civilian who can do that.
Speaker 1:And I think that's really good advice. Like we think, oh well, of course they know I, you know I'm an avionics technician. Of course they know that. I understand you know flight controls or navigation systems and like that's part of avionics. Well, the person reading your resume probably knows nothing about avionics and they're looking specifically for the word flight controls and navigation systems and if you didn't put it in there, they don't know that you have that skill and so you've got to really clarify that. And don't assume that everybody knows exactly what you're talking about Because your Navy, if I came to you with aircraft language I'm sorry, air Force language in my, in my resume, would you understand it? Probably not, right?
Speaker 2:I would understand, probably some of it, just because I worked in the joint environment, but I wouldn't be completely fluent in it. And so same thing with a recruiter they might understand some of the terminology and not be maybe not fluent in it.
Speaker 1:So don't assume that they know, you know what you did, right Be like me going to Mexico. I could order beer and ask for the bathroom and the library. I could ask for the library too. Other than that, I wouldn't. I would be lost, so that's why I would bring you my homie with me. So help you order some cervezas yeah, I can do, I can order dos mas cervezas por favor, but as about and only a saldaño. That's about as bad, as good as I can go, so after that, I'm coming with you all right, friend, I appreciate you coming in and just like going through all of that.
Speaker 1:I just wanted people to understand the ATS and how it works, and just I think the only way of doing that is talking to someone who uses it just about every day of her working life, and so I appreciate you for that.
Speaker 2:No worries, my pleasure. I love talking about this stuff. I like demystifying the ats, especially for my military community, to help relieve some anxiety that they may be having.
Speaker 1:Marisol just named the episode and everything perfect. Thank you, my friend. Thanks for listening to today's episode. My goal is to give you actionable strategies to help you learn to market your military skills and smooth your transition to the next phase of your career. If you learned something valuable today, share it. Subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel, leave us a review and write a post on social media about the lessons that helped you today from this episode.