Lessons Learned for Vets
Lessons Learned for Vets
Adapting through Career Changes from Government to Tech with Melinda Beyer
Former Marine Corps officer Mindy Beyer takes us on a remarkable journey through her diverse career path that has spanned military service, government work, tech startups, and now leadership at gaming giant Roblox as Director of Cybercrime and Strategic Intelligence. With refreshing candor and practical wisdom, Mindy reveals the strategies she's developed while navigating frequent career transitions as both a veteran and military spouse.
The conversation tackles one of the most challenging aspects of military transition—salary negotiation—with Mindy sharing an eye-opening moment when she "asked for the moon" and was shocked when a tech startup immediately agreed to her highest number. Her advice on researching compensation, leveraging networks, and confidently articulating value provides veterans with practical tools to maximize their earning potential.
Beyond compensation, Mindy explores the profound cultural differences between government and tech environments. She contrasts the mission-focused, hierarchical structure of government work with the profit-driven, fluid nature of tech companies—noting how veterans can leverage their systematic thinking and experience with large organizations to provide unique value, especially to growing companies. Her counterintuitive advice about certifications (they might actually hurt your chances in some tech roles) and practical guidance on overcoming imposter syndrome offers veterans a roadmap for successful transitions.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is Mindy's authenticity about balancing career ambitions with military family life. As she prepares for yet another move supporting her husband's upcoming overseas command, she demonstrates the resilience and adaptability that defines successful military-connected professionals. Whether you're contemplating a career in technology, preparing for your military transition, or simply seeking inspiration from someone who's masterfully navigated multiple professional reinventions, Mindy's journey offers powerful lessons for veterans at any stage.
You can connect with Mindy via LinkedIn at: www.linkedin.com/in/melinda-beyer-28208646/
The Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast is sponsored by Seek Now and their Drive Academy. Seek Now is the property inspection industry's leading business and they created Drive Academy DoD SkillBridge and CSP internships to teach transitioning military service members and veterans skills that prepare them for lucrative and rewarding careers in the property inspection and insurance industries. You can learn more and apply today at www.internwithdrive.com.
Welcome to the Lessons Learned for Vets podcast, your military transition debrief. I'm your host, lori Norris, and I've helped thousands of military service members successfully transition out of the military since 2005. Thanks for tuning in to hear the after action reports and real stories of your fellow veterans, who are here to help guide, educate and inform you as you navigate your own military transition. By the way, if you find value from today's episode, please share it with others, leave us a review and post about us on social media. On today's episode of the Lessons Learned from Vess podcast, I'm excited to welcome Melinda Beyer.
Speaker 1:Mindy is currently the director for cybercrime and strategic intelligence at Roblox. In her diverse career, mindy has been a Marine Corps officer, a stay-at-home and homeschooling parent, a presidential management fellow, and has worked with the Air Force, navy, darpa and the intelligence community in the United States government to improve cyber capabilities for national defense. Mendy has worked for two startup technology companies and also worked with Jon Stewart on the Hill to help pass legislation that provides assistance to veterans exposed to toxic substances. She is absolutely loving her current job and finds the gaming industry to be one of the most exciting industries she's ever worked with. She is getting ready for yet another change as her military spouse prepares to take command overseas. So I'm excited to have her here to share her story, tell us about all of these exciting things she's done and how tech has really kind of run through her career her entire time. So thank you, mindy, for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, Lori. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:And if only the people listening knew all the things we had to just go through to get you here. And if only the people listening knew all the things we had to just go to go through to get you here, that's, that's a good thing, right? See, we don't have to tell this is tech.
Speaker 2:There's always some little issues. Yeah, right All.
Speaker 1:I have tech gremlins, so that's you know. On base Wi Fi may not always be exactly right, so we really didn't talk about this in the bio, but your military transition happened back in 2008. Much different landscape back then, right. So you know, transition program was different, Resources were different, but also, like you've been a military spouse to the wife of a high-ranking officer, you have to change jobs pretty much every two years, right?
Speaker 2:That's exactly right yeah.
Speaker 1:You told me you kind of bounce between like government and tech, government and tech.
Speaker 2:I do when I'm in DC. I typically do government work, um, and anything that involves a security clearance usually requires you to be in somewhere like DC with skiffs and things like that. Um, when IC and live in like New Jersey or, at the moment, california, I tend to go out to startups or to tech companies.
Speaker 1:It's giving you a pretty interesting and diverse career, like what are like, as you have to make these frequent transitions. Let's talk about some of the strategies that you've taken to to really be able to transition between different roles and different industries.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think one of the most important things is to know who you are and then be authentic, be really true to that. Knowing yourself, knowing what you're good at, is pretty crucial, especially as you're changing between something that you may have done for a long time in a bureaucratic environment and then going to the tech industry, and sometimes that's you know. You have to put aside the imposter syndrome and sort of embrace these new opportunities. But knowing you know if you are a hard worker, if you are quick on the uptake, if you have that confidence, you can move pretty smoothly in between those. But you kind of have to know what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are and lean into those as you start interviewing. Another thing that's super important is timing. So if you think about when you find out when you're going to move so if you're going to PCS, you might find out three to six months ahead of time. If you're leaving the government, you might know a year ahead of time. You might know two weeks ahead of time you might not get much, yeah, much notice at all, but anyway. So as soon as you do know though so let's use a six-month time frame you start job hunting at that point, right, you start reaching out to folks, you start putting your name out there, you clean up your resume. You actually want to be interviewing as soon as possible, but no later than, I would say, three to four months before you're going to move, if at all possible. Right, sometimes that's not possible, but when it is, you want to have that much headway, and meeting with people in your next location can help you anticipate some of the challenges you might see. So, for example, we're moving across the pond for our next duty station, and I'm talking to folks in mainland Europe, but I'm also talking to folks in England as far as OK, what's open, what's the landscape look like, et cetera. What's the landscape look like, et cetera. Another thing about interviewing that one of my bosses taught me and I think is so wise, is always be interviewing even when you're happy in your job and you may have seen this before on your podcast, because I know you talk to a lot of folks but interviewing once a year is something that that particular boss did and does, and it's such a smart thing to do because it keeps you relevant, it informs you of where the market is, it informs you of what you're worth out there so that when you do go and it really matters, you're prepared and you're well-trained, right. So I think that kind of keeping your skills fresh and understanding market trends is really really important to do is really really important to do. Yeah, and I think you've and I know you've heard this before because I've listened to some of your other podcasts the networking piece right, it's all about networking.
Speaker 2:Always, always, be ready with your elevator pitch. You wanna treat every meeting like it's an interview. I had someone tell me once that they didn't believe in elevator pitches and they thought they were basically just glossy lies. You tell people to get hired, but I don't see it that way at all. I see it as being able to explain what your purpose on this planet is in 30 seconds or less and maybe a few ways you've already achieved it or the steps you're taking to be able to accomplish it. And if you can emote that, if you can explain that very quickly, a lot of people will be able to place you in their head. Oh, okay, I know exactly who I should call. I should call Sam over in HR for that company, because I know they're looking for someone just like Mindy or just like Lori. So it's okay to be able to succinctly explain who you are and what you've done, and you never know when a simple interaction is going to lead to a great opportunity. I have met bosses and future bosses on buses, in bathrooms, everywhere right, in bathrooms, everywhere, right. So those positive impressions are really important for future openings.
Speaker 2:I do something when I meet folks, which is as soon as I meet them, and again, if I'm on a bus, if I'm on an airplane, if I'm just walking down the street and I happen to be walking with someone, if I meet them and we have a conversation and it gets into oh, what do you do? What do you do? I say, hey, are you on LinkedIn? And if they say yes, I'm like, okay, I'm going to add you right now. And then I send an immediate note that says it was so nice to meet you, lori, I'm so glad you love blue penguins too. Good luck in your next endeavor. And that way, even though I might not talk to you for another two years, I don't forget who you are, because we bonded over that one little, you know, blue penguin bit or whatever it was that we had in common, and you will remember me too, when I come back and I'm like, hey, I think you said that you were working in this industry and I'm now interested in this industry. Do you know anyone?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love your explanation of the elevator pitch. I think people hear pitch and they think very negatively of it, but it's just like you said. It's your ability to just explain why are you on this earth, what do you do Like, what is it that you love to do and why are you good at it. And you need to be memorable. When you do it right, it's going to be quick, right and concise and catchy and and really just talk about your value, and I think that's important. You talked about it earlier.
Speaker 2:You said you got to know your value, but I also want to add you got to be able to talk about your value right, that's right, and I think that's where the authenticity comes in, because you can be confident talking about yourself if you believe it right. So so make sure you believe in what, in what you're saying, what you're putting out there. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think that you know, just to your point about interviewing and having you know, having your resume ready and your interview prep. I mean I think you've got to always be ready and right, because you never know what's coming your way good or bad. Right, an amazing opportunity could fall in your lap and you're like, oh, give me a week to get my resume updated. Or you know, my LinkedIn is not very good, and you know, and so I think just that's right.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, being opportunistic is probably my biggest piece of advice here. Being opportunistic is probably my biggest piece of advice here. No-transcript. A chance on me. I am also willing to take a chance on myself and fall back on those skills that I know are there. You know being adapt, being adaptive and and hardworking, and you know quick to pick up new things, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:I think you know, you make a really good point. Oftentimes we see people who've had these amazing careers and like, oh, they're so lucky and and it has nothing to do with law care or, you know, like, oh my gosh, they're a brilliant person and and sometimes it's that, but sometimes it's just that they were open to opportunities and they weren't afraid to walk through the door right.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that that's definitely true. And I won't say that I've never had imposter syndrome or that I've. You know, my husband has heard plenty of times oh my gosh, I don't know if I can do this. I hope it works out. I'm probably going to get fired within the first three months. They're going to realize, you know, whatever. But it's always worked out. And every time I think I'm actually finally at the point now where I recognize what people are looking for.
Speaker 2:So my coming into this position at Roblox originally at Roblox I was the incident response senior manager and I built up the incident response team and I had never done incident response in my life. The closest thing I'd come to that was, you know, manning a watch floor in the Marine Corps, but they have a similar feel. And coming into this, I remember talking to my hiring manager, who was soon to be my boss and still is my boss, and saying I don't, are you sure I can do this? Are you hiring? You know, I'm not sure, I've never done this before. And he was like look, he was like I'm looking for a leader with a certain kind of energy and with a certain kind of, a certain set of skills to build a team and strategically move it forward.
Speaker 2:You have done that so many other times. Don't worry about some of the technical aspects you don't understand. We have plenty of technical people that understand, those that can teach those to you. What we need is sort of that you know, je ne sais quoi that you bring. That's different, that's hard to find in the tech industry, which is, you know, people management.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that there are so many people that wouldn't have even entertained that possibility because they didn't have the tech skills, and I think you know it's all about who you surround yourself with, right?
Speaker 2:So definitely surrounding yourself with supportive people helps. And also we might talk about it a little later but the we might talk about it a little later, but the knowing veterans who have also transitioned, knowing people in government who have also made this leap and sort of have the experience that they can share with you and you can learn from their mistakes, that's that's very helpful.
Speaker 1:You've been, like you said, we've transitioned between the government and the tech sector multiple times. Just give us a quick insight as someone who's worked both for the government and in the tech world startup world. Now you're working for one of the biggest gaming companies out there. What are some of the biggest cultural differences you've noticed between those different environments?
Speaker 2:There's some really obvious ones and I think the biggest one is when you are working for the government or the military, you are serving the people. It's a very mission oriented environment. When you're in the private sector, you're working to generate profit, answer to the bottom line, answer to shareholders, which you know can differ from the mission focused government role. I think one major advantage of that is tech has a much higher earning potential than, and more opportunities for career advancement possibly. But you know there's a drawback in that it can sometimes lack the clear societal mission that government roles have, leading to potential feelings of, you know, sort of being misunderstood or how you conduct, you know, business.
Speaker 2:Most government jobs are structured with set work hours. Now, granted, when you're deployed, or sometimes in the military, you'll have, you'll be working all the time. There are no set hours. But in in most government positions and even in the military, when you're, you know, not deployed, it's a seven, thirty to five kind of job and especially if you're doing cleared work, you have to leave it there. You can't bring it home with you, right? That's a lot different in the tech sector, especially when you're talking about startups. Any startup you're in, you can kind of assume that you will have your phone on you 24-7. It's true in incident response too, even though Roblox is not a startup. That's just something that you can be called at any time of the evening and you are expected to address the problems as they come up. So that is significantly different and people can't see you.
Speaker 1:They'll see our clip, but you have pink hair, I'm guessing you do not have pink hair when you work for the government. That is correct.
Speaker 2:I actually just decided to try pink hair in you work for the government. That is correct. I actually just decided to try pink hair in the last six months it's the first time I've ever dyed my hair like this and I decided you know what, if I'm going to ever dye my hair pink, now is the time to do it, when I'm working for a fantastic gaming company and I can be a little bit of a cyberpunk. I was actually influenced by Vi from Arcane if we have any Arcane fans, League of Legends fans out there, yes.
Speaker 1:So I have gamer children. I got it, I get it Awesome yes. Yes, so you know, I think kind of talking about cultural differences like titles and hierarchy can be very different from the private sector to the military or the government right. Veterans are very used to clear structure, Like I know exactly where I am, I know exactly how much I make, which we're going to talk about that in a minute Like how can? What advice do you have to help veterans better understand and adapt to those differences in hierarchy?
Speaker 2:So a couple of things. One you can definitely look at the military and see pay grades. Right, you can find those in tech as well. They're just in different places. Levelsfyi has a lot of information about pay and in tech, titles can be a little different and confusing. So you could be like a PR evangelist or something and you're like, well, how does that even translate? Is that like SES? Is that you know corporal? Like where am I in this? So you really have to ask a lot of questions with the hiring manager.
Speaker 2:There is sort of a structure, I would say, where there's ICs and that's individual contributors and that goes all the way up to, like I think, 10. But basically IC1 through IC6, you're getting towards the management level, and then IC7 is a director, senior director, and then you get VP, senior VP, and then you're looking sort of at C-suite. But there are technical directors as well. So if you think about SESs in the government and then there are STs who handle more of the technical aspects, and this was explained to me once, as SESs are supposed to do 75% people management and 25% technical work or operational work, and STs are supposed to be 75% technical or operational work and only 25% people management. They're still leaders either way, but that's kind of how it goes.
Speaker 2:That's true in the tech sector as well. The tech director is going to be your very you know, on keyboard oh no, I have a question and this just got hacked and I need help fixing it sort of person, whereas a regular director or, you know, senior manager is going to be very people focused in running a team. So you can look for things like that. You Just research those roles right, use job description verbiage to understand equivalent roles that you might have done, like what did you do in the government? Can you write it out? Did you run a team? Did you run a budget? Were you in acquisitions? Were you in public relations? Where did you fit? And look for those same kinds of words, because you're not going to find the same kinds of titles. You know, program element monitor doesn't exist in the tech side of things. So compare the responsibilities and gauge if it's a good fit.
Speaker 1:And every organization calls things different, different titles as well.
Speaker 1:So you've got to look at the internal workings of that organization and maybe dig in to do a little more research into them, which kind of leads me to the pay question. Right, you and I talked about salary negotiations when we talked a few weeks ago, and I think a lot of transitioning veterans struggle with salary negotiations, like especially you know, if you're coming from a high ranking position, like you know, or even you know like last a couple of weeks ago I had a E6 who walked into a six figure job, and so everybody's different. But what advice can you offer about the salary negotiation process and just how to navigate that process Of course.
Speaker 2:So something I'm sure everyone's heard before but never hesitate to negotiate for a better salary. The worst they can say is no. If you're transitioning from a high paying you know your GS-14, gs-15, ses, you know sort of high ranking officers don't settle for too low of a salary just because you have a pension. Don't fall into that common trap that I've seen I'm sure you've seen so many times where it's well, my retirement pay plus my new job pay equals my old pay, and so that must be right. No, you're setting yourself up for a lower salary and for failure, I think in that scenario I think asking for the moon actually landed me right there. I remember coming into one of the startups and they said hey, what are you thinking? And I was like well, I don't know what are you thinking, because you, nobody wants to throw out the first number. You always want to. You always want to wait for them to throw out the number. But they were sort of like no, we're, we really want you to say what you want. And I was like, well, fine, I'm just gonna throw something out there. That's so ridiculous that you know they'll never match it. They did it was, it was. It was unbelievable. I threw out basically the highest number I could think of and they were like yeah, okay, that sounds reasonable. And I was flabbergasted, my jaw was on the floor, right. Like that works, all you have to do is ask and they give it to you.
Speaker 2:But I mean, it really does come across in what are you bringing to the company? You know, do you have something that they are lacking? And when you're looking at small companies especially, they need people who are so like, like Renaissance people, right, that can do many jobs, because in any startup it's you have to be a jack of all trades. You're going to be doing all the things. It's all hands on deck all the time. You're just trying to keep the business running and building right and scaling. So you could be writing, you know, a policy for maternity leave one day, because there isn't one, and all of a sudden you know the 15th employee you have is a pregnant woman, and so it's like, oh, I guess we got to write a policy. Well, I'll do that right now. Never done that before, but here I go. But if you can do that, if you can be adapted, then you really can command a higher salary. And again, a lot of that is about confidence and the research that you do.
Speaker 2:It's always good to go into negotiations with as much information as possible. Again, you can look at Glassdoor. You can look at levelsfyi to support your negotiations. You really want to anchor your salary expectations on data rather than on emotions or whether it's in or your previous role or what you think you're worth. Right, right, use salary range data.
Speaker 2:Um, one of the biggest hacks I have for this that's worked for me is if you can find someone who just left the company, so you, you can use linkedin. I love it. It's one of my favorite tools. But you can also, during your hiring process, ask Tech companies generally have many interviews.
Speaker 2:It's not like, oh, three interviews and you're done. I think I did 12 interviews for my current position. Yeah, and that's pretty difficult. They bring in often the entire team. They'll have you do multiple levels of interviews, different kinds of interviews, and so you have a chance to get to know all of these people that are interviewing you. I add them on LinkedIn right away.
Speaker 2:Right, because even if I and I say something like thanks for the interview, you know, even if this job doesn't work out, it's so nice to meet you. I hope our paths cross in the future or something like that. Right, but if you build relationships with those people, you can. You can ask them hey, I'd really like to talk to someone who recently left, for whatever reason, and that person who left is often very happy to share their experience. They're happy to share the goods and the bads. You come in with a very clear picture of what to expect. It's not all roses and sunshine, so, yeah, that's very you know, it helps you prepare and it also you can ask them hey, when you went into salary negotiations, what did you think was is this about right for that? Because they'll most likely know.
Speaker 1:I think you know you make a great point and I know you kind of jokingly said well, just ask, you never know. But obviously I think going in armed with your research and your information is going to be your best bet. I like a couple of different resources. I like the levelfyi tool that you offered up. I'm going to have to check that one out. But go in with multiple tools. Get a little bit of insight. Talk to people in the industry.
Speaker 1:Talk to people that maybe that you already know in the company or that like you said left the company to gather information and just do a really good job along the way in your resume, in your LinkedIn, in your interview answers of demonstrating your value so that you can confidently ask for the amount that they're paying right.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. And once you you know in tech a lot of folks move I move every two years, right, or three years, two to three. But folks in tech often move around, sort of like people in the government move around or military move around, right, and they get the hang of it because they've done it before. Once you come over and you know, done a job for three years and you're like, oh, I think it's time to move, you'll have a little bit better of a hang of it too, because it is a different process than the government process.
Speaker 2:If salary is non-negotiable in tech which it rarely is, but just in case it is you can ask for additional perks too, which is like more PTO. Some companies have unlimited PTO. You can ask for a relocation bonus, like, oh, I have to move out to Silicon Valley, can you cover that? What's your typical relocation bonus? You can ask for more equity. Startups generally offer a little less in pay because they are often giving you equity, so you can help build that company and they you know they want to go IPO there or they're preparing for it, so that's a big perk as well and you're sort of like you know you are a part of making that IPO a reality, which is always really fun.
Speaker 1:You know you bring up a good point of that. You know you're in Northern California. You know very affordable place to live right and so you do your research like where are you going?
Speaker 2:eggs were ten dollars the other day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh gosh that's actually double what they cost here, which is interesting that you know again. So do that research on the cost of living of where you're going, because you don't want to negotiate your salary. For you know, maybe today you're serving in alabama and it's a very different cost of living than in Northern California. So do that research as well and take that into consideration.
Speaker 2:I think California, Colorado and New York all have to publish their salaries so you can use those and then transpose those to whichever state you're in by looking at cost of living calculators. Yeah Right, I like the.
Speaker 1:Department of Labor for that, to look at cost of living differences in those states yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, all right. Well, let's see. I'm sorry, I think I said Department of Labor, I meant to say Bureau of Labor Statistics, so it's blSgov, so okay, so one of the I want to talk about transitioning to tech. One of the things I'm trying to cover in this season is just doing something different, right? And if you haven't been working in tech as a veteran, maybe you've been going to school or maybe you know, you've kind of dabbled in tech but want to go in a different direction Like, what advice do you have for veterans who want to transition into a career in tech but kind of feel overwhelmed by that skills gap or the learning curve that's involved? Like, what are some specific steps they can take to be prepared?
Speaker 2:So one thing I can say to not do is to get a bunch of certifications. The reason I say that is because I, when I first went to my first startup, I said hey, and it was. I was the employee number 11, by the way and I said do I need a CISSP? Do I need a PMP? What would make me more effective in this job? And I remember the boss and my coworkers telling me who were all hackers. They were like, absolutely not. If you had a CISSP, we never would have even hired you, because it's just one of those box checks that people who don't understand the business get. So, yeah, it was counterbalanced to what I had assumed, which is, you know, in the government, you get the certifications and you're ready for the next position, right? That's not true in tech. They actually are looking for, you know, grassroots, scrappy people. They don't want all the certifications and all of the standard.
Speaker 2:You know, structure, that, a lot of that, a lot of the government has, right, veterans, I think, have all this. Like, they have so many skills which translate really well into tech. So leadership and resilience and problem solving and just being there when there's a problem, right, showing up, which is really important, and certifications may not provide the immediate salary boost that they would in government roles, they can still be valuable for personal development. So if you want a certification for you, by all means go get it. I'm just telling you, it may not fit the role exactly, unless you find that you're looking at a specific set of roles and they always need the ISSP or something like that, in which case it's like, okay, we'll make the natural logic leap to maybe I should get that certification. I think that you can.
Speaker 2:You know, as far as veterans being prepared for the skills you can, you can Look at those LinkedIn profiles. See what skills the folks in the company that you're interviewing with where have they gone to school? What did they study? Did they study biology? But now they're in tech. Ok, well, that tells you something, right? Either it's a biotech company or they're looking for a certain personality rather than a certain degree.
Speaker 2:Right, the tech growth happens through handson experience and learning, by doing and being proactive. So use that military training to your advantage. You know, I think the military teaches us to be lifelong learners. So embrace tech's culture of learning and, you know, you can start acquiring skills at any time. Right, you can be a lifelong learner. While you're in the military or the government, even reading journals, you know, participating in gaming clubs if you wanted to go to gaming, just understanding again, you know I can't over estimate or over say the importance of having you know mentors and finding someone who's already done this, that can, that, can guide you through like oh, I did this, it wasn't worth it, I didn't do that, I wish I would have that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:I think you know a lot of what you're talking about really throughout the whole episode is you've got to dig in and do some research first of all to figure out like, how are you going to do in that hierarchy the change, and you know, from hierarchy to being more fluid? Do you want to work for a start-up where you've got to be that jack-of-all-trades, or do you like having a set? You know, responsibility that you you know. So I think it's all about finding a mentor, like you said, doing informational interviews, doing your research, kind of learning about, like you know, if you're in a bureaucratic military structure now and you find it to be a little restrictive and it shapes you a bit right, Then maybe the tech world is going to be better for you.
Speaker 1:But if you really like to have structure and hierarchy and know exactly what's happening, maybe it's not better for you. But if you really like to have structure and hierarchy and know exactly what's happening, maybe it's not right for you.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think that's really why I wanted you to come on today is because it is a very different world and I know a lot of veterans including maybe one that works for you who are doing really well in that world, right and so. But you've got to be able to adapt and I don't know anybody more adaptable than a veteran, to be honest with you. So but just know that, yeah, the military, the government, federal government's very bureaucratic. It's very hierarchical. That's not what the tech is, tech world is like.
Speaker 2:So that's exactly right. And as far as that fluid environment, know and adapting to the dynamic tech environment, coming from a structured environment, join affinity groups. I mean those are people, those are other. You know they're other folks who are dealing with some of the same. You know, maybe, cultural differences that you are. There's usually a veterans affinity group at a lot of these big companies, Veterans Affinity Group at a lot of these big companies, and the vets can kind of you know, you can sort of discuss like that's a nice way to say it yeah, yes, you can discuss the differences and the challenges that you're facing.
Speaker 2:One of the things that you know I think really makes a lot of sense to pay attention to is, unlike in government, where the focus is accomplishing the mission. Tech is competitive, right. So your performance review and I'm not saying that people in the government don't care about their performance reviews, but I believe in my experience in government, the military was the job needs to get done. Whoever comes in and does it. Cool, it got done. Nice, Gunny took care of that. Amazing, I didn't have to. Right, there's no pride in ownership of like. I have to do that job, that's my job and I'm the only one that can do that job Right.
Speaker 2:That can sometimes be the case because people's performance reviews can result in promotions or demotions, which is something that you might not be used to. In the government, Not only is the culture fluid, but your salary can be fluid as well, and more easily again, than in the government. So just realize you know it's not that you're trying to step on people's toes. You obviously want to avoid that, but I think as military people, we often come in with like we're just going to get her done, right, we're going to get that mission done, we're going to accomplish it without really paying attention to wait. How is this going to affect everybody else? Because they have things that they're trying to accomplish too and bullets that they're trying to get on their reviews.
Speaker 1:And I I don't wanna scare anybody away with what you said about your pay being very fluid, because it can be fluid down, but it can also be fluid. Oh very much. So you shared with me that you, far out, earn your senior officer husband and so I think that you know it is a. It's a very fluid process and it can be very lucrative, but you do have to approach it very differently. So I like that advice.
Speaker 2:So the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks there, but it is just a different.
Speaker 2:It's a different mindset that I was never exposed to before, and so it takes a little bit of a different, you know, thought process, communication and collaboration those are always important everywhere, but they are key in tech knowing when to push back, knowing when to offer feedback and knowing when to say not my circus, not my monkeys, I'm backing up, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, but one of the things, too, that I really want to mention in startups, scaling is one of the hardest things that companies can do, and military veterans and government folks are trained to understand larger systems, right, we inherently do it from the beginning of fire team squad platoon battalion MAGTF. You know that systems thinking can be such an asset in these tech companies, especially startups, where they have not even envisioned the entire way of how the company would be structured if it grew to 100 people or 200 people or 1000 people. Right, because it's all. It's all grassroots, it's being based kind of day by day, like okay, well, we'll. Now we need another person, we will hire that person, right, but those bigger structures, that's something that I think folks that have worked in large bureaucracies can bring, because they've seen it before. They kind of know how it works. They know how all the pieces come together to work toward one mission. So you can bring that perspective and that you know strategic thinking and it's really valuable.
Speaker 1:And I think there's nothing wrong with talking about that value in an interview for a startup and just saying, talking about the structures that you've built and the standardizations that you've created so that things can flow seamlessly, I think you know again, showing it as a value, I think that's a really great point. So, as we wrap up like, you've had such a unique career journey since you left the Marine Corps in 2008. Any last lessons learned that you want to share?
Speaker 2:Yes, don't let imposter syndrome hold you back. The only thing ever holding me back, I think, was me, and the older I get, the more I realize that you, I think every time I would go into a new job I'd look at you know everybody else that was working there and I was like, well, they understand it, they get it, and I don't. But the truth is it's kind of like parenting in that way, right, like everybody's just winging it, we're all just figuring it out as we go right, there's no like special book that everyone reads and then they're in the secret club. Everyone's learning Again in tech. I think that's very true because tech companies move so fast and they change things so rapidly and dynamically that often everybody's taken aback and learning things on the fly, right, that's just part of it, and every company that I've gone to, there've been other folks there also in their first six months sort of looking around bewildered, because it does take six months, I would say, to adjust to a new company. Sometimes, if it's your first one out of the government, it might be a year before you sort of feel comfortable and you can look around finding those other folks and being like, okay, they're going through the same thing. I'll ask them, you know, or again, you can sort of find that solidarity and, like I, am not the only person that feels this way.
Speaker 2:Also, just be resourceful when you're doing this. Use every available resource you can to succeed. Don't be afraid to ask for help. You know to reach out for help. Your network resume services. Like you provide AI.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, ai is so huge now and I want to just put a little and I don't work for an AI company, but I'll put a little plug in for AI because everyone in tech nowadays uses it as a tool so that they can spend their brain power on harder, more complex problems. So if something, if AI can be handled by something, it is being handled by AI. Yeah, and that's super important for sort of folks in the. At least last time I was in government, we weren't using AI. I don't really know where it's going right now, but it's not cheating, it's not copying right. You're taking what's available and using it to make you faster in your job. You can also reach out to other vets. It's so important. The vet network, the government network. You reach out to you, you can reach out to me. I. I love talking to folks about this transition. You know, find mentors always that'll allay your fears and don't go it alone and don't get in your head, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are all all great pieces of advice, no matter what industry you want to go into. Let's be honest, right? So thank you so much for coming on today and just sharing your experience with us and just all the things you've learned along the way. I really appreciate you doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, lori. Thank you for having me. It's really fun to do this.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to today's episode. My goal is to give you actionable strategies to help you learn to market your military skills and smooth your transition to the next phase of your career. If you learned something valuable today, share it. Subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel, leave us a review and write a post on social media about the lessons that helped you today from this episode.