Entrepreneurial Appetite

Redefining Travel: Lawrence Phillips on Empowering Black Travelers and Building Green Book Global

• Lawrence Phillips • Season 6 • Episode 15

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What if your travels could redefine your identity and reshape cultural narratives? Join us as we sit down with Lawrence Phillips, the trailblazing founder of Green Book Global. Growing up in Boston with Barbadian roots and inspired by life-changing journeys like his transformative Seattle camping trip, Lawrence recognized a gap in travel resources for Black travelers and set out to change the narrative. As we explore Lawrence's journey, you'll learn how global travel has the power to offer profound personal growth, challenge entrenched stereotypes, and provide experiences that traditional education paths simply can't.

Imagine traveling through Johannesburg, not just as a tourist but as a cultural explorer, forming genuine connections and dispelling media-driven fears. This episode takes you on a journey through Lawrence's eyes, revealing how revisiting places with an open mind can alter your worldview. Discover the origins of Green Book Global and the unique Travel While Black score that empowers Black travelers to make informed decisions about their journeys. We explore the platform's evolution and how it’s become a crucial resource, helping travelers navigate the challenges and celebrate the joys of travel in a sometimes unwelcoming world.

Balancing a tech startup with family life is no small feat, and Lawrence shares the ups and downs of this entrepreneurial adventure. From bootstrapping Green Book Global to leveraging the support of initiatives like the Expedia Accelerator, learn how clear communication and a committed team can turn challenges into opportunities. This episode sheds light on the importance of community among Black entrepreneurs and the power of a shared vision. As we wrap up, you’ll gain insights into the exciting future of Green Book Global and the valuable lessons learned along the way, leaving you inspired to pursue your passions with resilience and strategic planning.

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Langston Clark :

Hey everyone, thank you again for your support of Entrepreneurial Appetite. Beginning this season, we are inviting our listeners to support the show through our Patreon website. The founding 55 patrons will get live access to our monthly discussions for only $5 a month. Your support will help us hire an intern or freelancer to help with the production of the show. Of course, you can also support us by giving us five stars, leaving a positive comment or sharing the show with a few friends. Thank you for your continued support. What's up everybody?

Langston Clark :

Once again, this is Langston Clark, the founder and organizer of Entrepreneurial Appetite, a series of events dedicated to building community, promoting intellectualism and supporting Black businesses. And today we have Lawrence Phillips, founder of Green Book Global, a Black travel review website and application. And just some background. You all know that my good friend Leroy Adams has been a guest on the show several times and we've collaborated on some interviews and things like that.

Langston Clark :

And so locally here, our Black Museum, the San Antonio African American Community Archive and Museum, hosts every week a Black movie screening and it could be, you know, most of the times movies that have been out for two, three, maybe 10 years, but really a good event to really highlight some people and bring some community together, and so we actually had the creator, the producer, the director of the Green Book documentary that's on Paramount Plus it was actually, I think it was released in 2019, come and not only show the documentary, but also be on a panel with Lawrence and Leroy, as Leroy was facilitating the conversation between the two of them, and so that's how I initially found out about Lawrence and the good work that he's doing, and so, as we get started, Lawrence, I was just wondering if you could begin by telling us you know what's your personal story, what has been your travel experience and how did that lead you into starting your own business?

Lawrence Phillips:

Absolutely so. First off, just thank you for having me and giving me the opportunity to talk more about Green Book Global and how we're really trying to make travel more accessible, more safer but also more joyful for Black travelers across the world. As far as where travel started for me, my family's from Barbados. I grew up in Boston, so both my dad and mom are Arbazian and so I grew up in the streets of Boston a different climate than Barbados. So I was actually born in Boston, right, but growing up there, like, I used to go back to Barbados every once in a while. So, like you know, when I was two or like five and so, like me, I didn't register as traveling, I just registered going to a hot place and playing outside and playing at the beach. But I think that ingrained like a foundation about, like because I had a passport super early and so I think a lot of times you can take for granted passports but because I would go back and forth to Barbados as a kid, it was like almost required for me to have a passport. But then, on top of that, as I kind of, you know, matriculated through school, I actually became part of a program called Summer Search. It's a program for fire, like, if you are in the Northeast, yo get into this program. But it was dedicated for, like, high school students and essentially your sophomore and junior year. If they found that you had a lot of potential but also could be pretty vulnerable, what they would do is they would put you on these trips. And for me personally I went to. It was through the National Outdoor Leadership School. I went into Seattle Washington so, and I went camping for 30 days. So I am a black man from the city of Boston, family is from Barbados. Your boy don't go camping. I never camped a day in my life. But with that program it's like hey, no, we think you can do it. And I was like y'all say so, sure, why not, I won't give it a go.

Lawrence Phillips:

And so I did 30 days straight. I think we hiked about 90 plus miles, and so this is no, no bathrooms, no, no, okay, this is real camping. This is real camping. Like, like I, like you, had to dig a hole. We got water in the river, yeah, yeah, funny story I found a tooth. I forgot my toothbrush. You know I ain't camp. I forgot my toothbrush Hiking for like a day or two. For if it's going to be hot for the next like 30 days. And so found a toothbrush in the middle of the woods and I was like, well, shoot, I can boil this joint or have no toothbrush for 30 days. Hey man, let me boil this joint real quick. So I boiled it and had a toothbrush.

Lawrence Phillips:

Randomly, I got the group loss. We had turns being like group lead. I got the group loss and I was like I was like 14, 15 at the time too, and too. And so it was just a very enlightening experience because you've really got to appreciate what you have. So having no bathroom for 30 days.

Lawrence Phillips:

Like you know, I lived in a small apartment. It was cool, family was there, but you know, you might you kind of look at it a little differently when you ain't have a bathroom for 30 days. Like, shoot yo, this this little cramped apartment is bomb. Like I'm the good, I don't need nothing else. And so it really helped me appreciate what I actually had, but also gave me a lot of resilience because, like I'm like man, I just did 90 plus miles. I never camped a day in my life. I can do high school, I can do college, and so that that really like helps kind of frame my mind, give me like a really firm foundation. And then the following year that the program actually took you to international trip and I went to Spain for 30 days, and so part of the rationale behind it is like, hey, they want to build your resilience, like with this camping trip and the program is a bit different now, but they still do those types of things but then they want to make sure you're good locally, they can kind of get access to you, and then like, all right, you're good, you can go to your summer trip and kind of pick a destination. That helped on my college essay me like really stand out, and also again, really helped hold in on some leadership skills I didn't even know that I had.

Lawrence Phillips:

So that was like part one, like pre-college, like that was part one, and then in college, like I did like a you know uh, so what is it called? A spring break trip to bahamas, like I'll go every you know, every once in a while somewhere. But really, when I graduated from georgia tech with electrical engineering degree, I worked at accenture, doing it, consulting. With that you basically fly over the US for different clients, and so what I would do is one, I would accumulate a lot of frequent flyer miles. But two, I would be able to like flex my trip so like, if I was flying to California, I bet I'm not going back to Atlanta or Boston or wherever I was at that time. I'm going to go to Costa Rica for the weekend, and company pays for it, right, because as long as it's the similar amount or cheaper than what it would be to get back home, but like, and it ain't no sort of far back, right.

Lawrence Phillips:

And so it was the opportunity for me to like use that, to like travel more. It really just fit my travel style, my style in general, just like, okay, I like traveling, I like IT, and so, long-winded way to get back to how we got to Green Book, actually, at Accenture I was doing I had a client for about two years and I'd been there at Accenture for maybe like eight years, I think, and I got promoted to manager, and so they have like different tiers, like analyst, consultant, manager, senior manager, and so I was like right on track getting promoted to manager. But I was also traveling back and forth between Atlanta for about two years. So on the plus side, I got a lot of freaking flyer miles Like I was like diamond on everything.

Lawrence Phillips:

I was also burnt out. I was an angry black man whenever I had to take a red eye back home. Man, them red eyes, we hurt me. And so you also have a very limited amount of time once you get back. So, like when you take a red eye back on a Thursday, come back, you know, early Friday morning your sleep, fly back out that Monday.

Langston Clark :

So you know I try to avoid red eyes at all costs.

Langston Clark :

I want to ask a question real quick because I want to tie it into later on something I saw on your website and something you mentioned when you did the talk and, just as a young professional coming up before I was married, I noticed that a lot of Black women who were in my circle professionally and even my wife before we got married always had the travel job.

Langston Clark :

These women are highly educated, but they always got the job where they got to fly on an airplane and go somewhere. I'm wondering, in that time of your life, while you were doing that, where were you on your family journey? Was that something that made starting a family difficult? Or, if you had a family, did it make having your family difficult? What was that experience like? Because, although I never had the type of job where I had to hop on an airplane once a week, I've seen it manifest in other people's lives and I think it plays a role in your ability to start a family or be healthy and maintained in your family. But what I see on your website is a picture of you, your wife, your daughter up there, and so what's the contrast there for you?

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah. So that's a great question. It'll tie into, actually, the start of Green Book Global. Ok, and so while I was traveling back to California, I was dating my girlfriend now my wife. So it's no surprise at the end, like, did it work out? I'm going to tell you it worked out, but she was a consultant as well. So I think part of what helped make us work was that she understood the lifestyle Right, and so you know she would fly back and forth or we would fly and meet somewhere, right, no-transcript, and then if we flex and go one other place, we can see each other maybe twice, two to four times a month, right? So I think that elongated our ability to kind of become closer. But I think we understood that. And so how it kind of ties back into your broader question is when I got promoted to manager, I was super happy, but I was also super burnt out.

Lawrence Phillips:

So I quit and so I was like you know, I'm out and for me, I wanted a mental health break. I was burnt out but also I really like traveling, as you kind of can tell. So I decided to travel the world for about a year and I did 30 plus countries in all seven continents, including Antarctica, in less than a year. So at that point I was dating my girlfriend now wife, and she's like you doing what and so what. I kind of aligned it to like she was in business school and I was like, well, this is kind of like my business school, like I'm kind of like from learning, like on my feet, not like just formal education, like once I got my electrical engineering degree, I was like yo, I'm good.

Lawrence Phillips:

And so it was there that we were kind of managing our relationship as I was traveling around the world and she was in business school. So it was tough. But also what I had thought to myself too was this is for me like. This makes me a better person. This is going to make me a complete person. I don't regret this. And so I really felt that me taking that trip around the world was me investing in myself and I think that made me the person that I am today and be able to be like the husband and the father that I am because I have experiences. So I it was definitely investing in me to invest in the future of my family, if that makes sense.

Langston Clark :

You know. So I love how you brought up like. This is my business school. I'm a my my full-time job is as a university professor and I had the opportunity to mentor young adults and if they receive it because they don't always receive it and I oftentimes tell my students like, listen, especially the ones who are graduating early, but it doesn't matter if you're graduating early or not, you should take a year off and find a job somewhere else outside of the country. But I also think one of the messages that we don't get and I think Black folks oftentimes don't get this, let alone just everybody else the mainstream is that you could take the same amount of time spent going to business school, getting your MBA, and create an experience for yourself. That doesn't put you in that debt, but it's still like a tremendous learning experience. Maybe who maybe even is contemplating going to, you know, business school or graduate school or whatever what's a little bit more of the benefits that you got from creating your own, you know, basically, business school opportunity.

Lawrence Phillips:

So one. I'm going to speak for myself. I don't want to recommend anything to anyone, because the way my brain works, business school was my personality. If you will, I would probably have a really good time in business school. Business school is fun. You can make a lot of networking connections and learn a lot, but for me, formal education I'm kind of like off the cuff when I think about things.

Lawrence Phillips:

So if you were contemplating it, though, or even like my wife was kind of saying, hey, you should consider going to business school, I was like nah, nah, nah, I'm good is you know, business school doesn't teach you, in my opinion, really, how to be an entrepreneur. Like they really teach you how to switch jobs and become a better corporate professional and make a ton of money in corporations right, there's entrepreneurship classes that you can take, and, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people that have gone to business school that have created really tremendous businesses, but I find like the overwhelming majority of them are really doing it for a career change. Like my wife went from consulting to, like you know, beauty, right, like it's a really big career shift. That's going to be really hard to do. Unless you go to business school, you can't go from Accenture working at IT consulting and going, you know, l'oreal or some of these other bigger brands, estee Lauder, like those two don't really mix, yeah, right and so. But business school gives you that bridge and I feel like that's really the biggest benefit to business school is to give you a bridge to kind of switch careers or shuffle things around. But also the biggest piece of business school is really the network, and so I talk a lot. I have to give the gap, and so if you're able to kind of curate your own experience, you're okay going out there talking to people and learning, I think one. It's a mind shift, which is what business school does, but also gets you to know yourself right, and so it really depends on your personality. Do you need that structured learning or could you kind of be school of hard knocks and learn it on your own? Like that's a really internal conversation you need to have with yourself is what will make you most successful based on your personality, personality, style and type, and my style and type is like yo, I can.

Lawrence Phillips:

When I was doing trips man. I was doing trips man. I remember one of my boys used to get mad at me because I would talk to a stranger for like an hour. He's like yo, bro, you don't even know who this person is. Like yo, just let's go. I'm, like you know, just talking to people, right. And so I think it just really depends on what your personality style is to figure out, you know, and what your goals are to figure out. If business school versus a curated experience is for you, I will say the other thing too is business school. You can get loans. Trip around the world might be a little bit more hard, right, and so that's why I didn't do it right after college. I had to wait till I was about 30, where I got all those freaking flyer miles, had enough money saved up to actually do it.

Langston Clark :

so that's also something to uh to consider before we talk about building green book global, can you talk about some of the experiences you had on these, this, these 30 different countries, all the continents and all of that? Talk a little bit about some of those formative experiences that led into you know, building the Green Book.

Lawrence Phillips:

So I would say one of the biggest ones is Johannesburg. So I went to Johannesburg pre this trip around the world this gap year. I went to Johannesburg but I really listened to the media. The media was like, hey, you know, south Africa, joburg, you got to watch media. The media was like, hey, south Africa, joe Berg, you got to watch out. Don't really come out your hotel like that. It was very, very dangerous. And it was dangerous to an extent. I mean, every place is dangerous too. Same time.

Lawrence Phillips:

But I was so shook that when I was there I literally went to Sandton, to the mall, and then I went on safari and I left. I didn't explore the city. It it's like I'm gonna go here real quick. That's like the fancy part of town, I'm out. And so I kind of regretted that. And so I was like, yeah, that's not really how I travel. I don't typically listen to media, I do my own research and I typically vibe with the people.

Lawrence Phillips:

So when I went back into this gap, like yeah, I'm going to Joburg, I'm here, and then somebody's like, oh, I got some people down there. You should, you know, y'all should connect. And so I ended up kicking it with them, their family, their friends. For the whole week I went to the house. They cooked for us Like one of my best friends from college went with me on this gap year too.

Lawrence Phillips:

We kind of split up on different together, and so we were just at their crib going to parties with them. It was an amazing experience, and so that was really one formative one, whereas, hey, you know, don't necessarily judge a book by its cover, don't necessarily listen to everybody, especially very one-sided you got to get a good breadth of information and sometimes just try it for yourself, and so that was one opportunity where I was like yo, I'm really happy that I gave it another chance to really like, really dive into the culture. I even started to walk like them too. I I tried to see how they walked and how they, how they talked a little bit and just like how they dress. So I try to blend in, to make sure I didn't stand out as American until you could hear my voice, and then after that you knew I was. I was American. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Langston Clark :

So talk about building Green Book Global. What was that, like I'm assuming after this trip book global what? What was that like I'm assuming?

Lawrence Phillips:

after this trip you knew you weren't going back to corporate. Yes and no, yes and no, yes and no. Your boy always got a backup plan. So I was like, hey, we'll see what happens after this trip and if it don't happen like it needs to, then we'll see what happens. And so, actually, the trip is what stirred the idea.

Lawrence Phillips:

So one of the things that happened, we went to venice and and had a good time in Venice. It was cool. I actually I remember I was in charge of planning this. Why don't plan trips? I was in charge of planning, I didn't plan anything.

Lawrence Phillips:

So we got there like two o'clock in the morning, had no place to stay, don't speak Italian. So we were like literally knocking on doors with our like our backpacks, like on the cobblestone streets, and like knocking on doors like hey, you cobblestone streets. And like knocking on doors like, hey, you got, you got any room for us, like like you know, uh, mary and joseph, they're trying to figure out a place to lay right. So we did. We actually found a spot like a hostel to stay at, but but the takeaway for me going to venice is we end up, you know, going there and leaving, but I didn't realize there was a city called moreno that had the glass sculptures and also these beautiful houses, and and I was like, damn it, nothing told me. People tell you about like a specific city but not like a broader view of what you can do across other cities that may be in close proximity. And so I found a gap where, if you look at your platforms like TripAdvisor or those, they tell you specifically what to do there. But I'm like, well, what can I do broadly, what's on a city level that I should be considering? And that was something that I that kind of planted a seed for Green Book Global.

Lawrence Phillips:

And then, as a Black traveler, I was going to some places and I was kind of nervous and I was like, shoot, should I go here, should I not? I don't know. And so when I was at a hostel in Paris, in conversation with a Black lady there and we talked about, chocolate came up I love chocolate, I love me different variations of chocolate and she was like, oh, you should go to Belgium and Brussels. And I was like I don't even know what that means, but sure, what is that? It's a place that you would really get a lot of chocolate. I was like, all right, dope, but is it okay for us? And she's like, oh, you'll be fine. And so literally within 24 hours, I was in Brussels, I'm gone, and so between those two things, as far as one of what it potentially could be like in a city is what kind of planted the seeds for Green Book Global. We started building it during the trip, but it took about a few years for it to be stable.

Langston Clark :

So talk a little bit about the platform. Right and, as you know, a Black person living in the United States, or maybe someplace else. What do you get when you go to the actual platform itself and what information are you providing for consumers?

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah. So we provide a lot of very unique data, particularly for Black travelers. Anyone can use it, but it's for us buyers, it is the travel for us buyers. So one of the best things into our super valuable offering is our Travel While Black score. So every city on the platform. So again, when I talked about Venice, I was like dang, I really want to get a broad view of like the city. So I was like all right, let's get a broad view of all the cities, different categories like adventure, things to do, affordability, nightlife, like that's all helpful too, but also what's it like Travel While Black in that city? So every city on our platform we have hundreds across all seven continents has a travel while Black score, and it's not my opinion, it's the spending of thousands of other Black travelers.

Lawrence Phillips:

That was the other part too, whereas, you know, I don't want just one person's opinion, because one person might have a bad experience. Well, one person might have a good experience, right. But it's like how can I get an average? And that's my engineering mindset going there, like I don't want just one little piece of one sample, I want a ton of samples to give me a better gauge and then from there I can make an informed decision about what I want to do, and so that's one of the key things is, we get these scores that Black travelers leave. On top of that, they leave comments too, so every score is also accompanied by a comment.

Lawrence Phillips:

So it'd be like hey, I went to Paris, I did Black Paris tours, black-owned business. It was dope Fire. You should definitely do it. Or actually wasn't that good? Didn't see anyone that looked like us there. I will pass on it if I were you. Or hey, you know, I passed through the sun downtown, Didn't really feel comfortable. Probably should avoid if I were you.

Lawrence Phillips:

You know those types of things are all there, but we are unapologetically targeting and making sure we have a space for Black people to talk about what their experiences are like, and so, also calling it the Green Book, gave me permission to actually unapologetically go after it and just say, hey, we're blackity, black, black, black. It is not no shying away from it, and so that's one of the key things that we offer is just thousands of reviews from the perspective of black travelers on a city level as well as traveling, while black scores and we have a ton of reviews and scores for cities in the US because, unfortunately, the US is probably the most challenging when it comes to traveling while Black, because, I mean, I think it's important to know where you go in other cities around the world as far as what it's like traveling while Black, but if you think about media, hip hop and those types of things, like you kind of have this cool factor when you go to other countries, yeah, it's not really the same in the US.

Langston Clark :

Can you talk about what it was like to actually build the product? And because I know you mentioned that you were on this trip and actually started on a trip but what have been the iterations and evolution of Green Book Global?

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah, so first off on the trip. So that was all back in 2015. Like we were called, we worked the travel back then, but we eventually changed our name to double down on Green Book Global. But it was cumbersome, it took years to get the platform to be live. The first time, I think I fired like four or five developers because they just couldn't get the job done, and so I think one of the things within tech, too, is me being an electrical engineer. I used to be able to code. I used to. I can code, I just don't.

Lawrence Phillips:

But one of the things that I took for granted was relying on people's expertise to provide information and guidance in a particular area, and so with that, I was like hey, well, you're a developer, you should know how to architect this. Hey, you're a developer, you should know how to make this page. And I just gave, I took it, I took it for granted that they knew what they were doing and unfortunately, they did not, and so, but I think it wasn't just all on them. It was a lot on them because they just didn't have the skillset, but it was a lot on me not giving them a framework to be successful. Right, I know what I want, and I'm gonna have to convey it to them. What I want, and so it was always that, that messaging that you have to get right. And so I took the onus on me to figure out how to architect the platform, how to structure it, what technology we're going to use, and I was like no, y'all ain't going to tell me this. I'm going to figure it out and then I'm going to kind of socialize it, make sure I got it right, and then that's when I actually so, between doing that and I found a great developer.

Lawrence Phillips:

We were able to build the platform. So that was like first iteration. One was like the website, and so the website was better, and so we doubled down. Then we did the name change, and then we doubled down on kind of making the website look better by being part of the Expedia Accelerator. So we actually got to be accepted in Expedia Accelerator. We had hundreds of applicants that applied and only 12 were selected. We were one of those 12. And we were the only ones that were focused on Black travelers. And so, again, unapologetically, we kind of said, hey, this is our target market, it is what it is. I mean, they appreciated that. And so what I really appreciated about that accelerator was that also it was other demographics, so there was like six of that. Startups were all focused on accessibility and travel. Other startups were focused on, like women, lgbtq, and so it was really about representing diverse voices in the travel space.

Langston Clark :

No, I was going to say it's interesting because when I think of like I didn't know, expedia had an accelerator.

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah, they had one. They've had one. We're seeing where the next one is or when that one will be, but they've had one, and so I'm just really happy and blessed to feel like I got into that one that they had, because it's no wonder. So one of the things like the iteration was, you know, I went into like, yo, I'm at Expedia, let's go, I'm ready to make some money, let's do this. And they were like, oh yeah, it's cool. They've been very, you know, politely, it's like, yeah, we could do that, but maybe you should work on, maybe investing in it a little bit more. And so they made me really hone into my value proposition, which I really appreciate. But also they said, hey, you can do better, right, and so I did better. So we really revamped the website significantly as part of the accelerator program, and so that was, I would say, like the next iteration and the last. The final iteration is our.

Lawrence Phillips:

We've also had an app in the app store for years and years, but we actually really redesigned it literally this last August. Yeah, and so it is, in my opinion, it's dope. I'm very over the top, very meticulous, and so even the app that we had in the app store like it got the job done, people loved it. But I'm like, you know, this app right now is really, I think, instrumental and I think can really change the world and especially how Black people travel.

Lawrence Phillips:

Because the ui you know, I spent a lot of time on the ui making sure it looks good. There's so much functionality there, like we have a ton of api calls to make sure we kind of bring data into our databases. All these jobs are running in the background, so it's a really complicated platform that I can think of challenge, make a challenge to the world. I mean, we got, we got some, some things in there. I'm like yo y'all don't even have this. And so we also have AI now too. So we actually have AI where you can actually plan a trip in 30 seconds but you use the reviews of Black people and all the Black travel reviews we have to help make your itinerary.

Langston Clark :

Yeah, yeah, I think that's. I think that's pretty cool. I um, I want to ask you about two things. Right, we in community so you say you keep saying we, so talk about co-founders. Who else is working on a business with you and how do you navigate those relationships? But one thing I found is just being around Leroy and the work that he's doing with Culture Travels is that it seems like there's there are these communities of black folks who have startups or businesses in whatever particular lane and they're finding each other lane and they're finding each other. And, in addition to the team that you're working with specifically on Green Book Global, what is what type of community have you built for yourself of support with other Black entrepreneurs? That a place you can go to to share victories, losses, trials, advice, all of that stuff.

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah, I'm going to answer in the reverse, because because the reverse of how I have community kind of just happened recently. So one thing is Afrotech, and so if you're in the tech space, specifically the tech space right, a lot of startups whether it's brick and mortar, like I'm definitely all tech right, like that is my startup, and so Afrotech to me is homecoming. So it's like 30,000 black young professionals that are out there, whether they're trying to do career changes or they're entrepreneurs themselves. So I was actually fortunate enough to be a part of the. Afrotech is also just a vibe. The energy at Afrotech is just it's just fire Right, and so it was just really great being part of Afrotech. Also Goody Nation, and so I'm based in Atlanta, and so that's another kind of cohort of founders, people of color, that just all the different stages of their businesses and it's just they have what is it what? Therapy Thursdays. They literally do something where it's just like yo, we know it's not easy being a founder, and so we actually set aside like therapy for you and just voice whatever your concerns are. You kind of have just an ability just to kind of scream if you want to cry if you want to, and just be super vulnerable because they understand that the challenges of being an entrepreneur, but also the challenge of being an entrepreneur of color or a black entrepreneur. So those are two really big communities that I'm part of and then also my homies. Some of my homies are just in tech, so that helps because you know our kids will be playing together but we'll have a tech conversation on the side, or even where I got my app developed. I'm going to throw a shout out to Dashable and Marvin. We used him as our app developing company, but he also helped create Eat Okra, which is another one of the homies who has like a really dope app, and so it was just like being part of that community is just like. So the homies is kind in tech.

Lawrence Phillips:

I went to Georgia Tech so I got a lot of people in tech from that perspective and then by tech is my language. I used to code for fun. On that trip around the world I was coding Forex to try to see. Literally I was coding between. I had two options I had to start up with travel or build a program that can buy and sell for me to make me money where I can just go on a beach and just relax.

Lawrence Phillips:

So I did about a thousand programs over that trip, did various iterations of it, and then I was also working on the platform being built and I was like, all right, which one do I think has the most likely chance to succeed. And so I put in some effort on the coding. I was like, okay, this joint ain't working, like I'm still losing money. So I was like, let me go with the travel piece, because at least I can get like a short and there and I like traveling anyway, so I can definitely get an ROI With the coding. I would just might be in my room coding for the rest of my life trying to crack the code and never actually do it. So that's kind of where I made the decision of focus on the travel platform.

Langston Clark :

I was wondering, as you were talking about your experience in corporate working for Accenture, traveling and things like that. One of the things we hear all the time is it's not a lot of Black folks working in corporate, and so have you seen more Black folks in your entrepreneurship circles than you have in your corporate circles, and how has that been edifying for you, if so?

Lawrence Phillips:

Absolutely Not to say that there aren't more Black people in professional circles, but I'm being very intentional of finding the Black entrepreneurship. So I'm finding the Giddy Nations, I'm finding the Gentleman's Factories, I'm finding, you know, afrotech founder circle, like I'm seeking those spaces, those communities, and so it's been super edifying because, again, sometimes it sounds cliche, but seeing people that look like you do something, it really does make a very big shift in how you perceive your ability to do it as well. And so just seeing a ton of people being entrepreneurs like, oh, this is like it normalizes this, like, oh, I should do this, I should get funding at some point maybe I don't know, we'll see but at least we got the stories of people that had good experiences and bad experiences right. And so I think it's just being intentional about finding that community, I would say, in a professional space. I think Afrotech is just doing a really good job of finding and having a space for Black professionals. I think they've always been there. They've been maybe scattered, but now you kind of have one central location for them to kind of meet up, and so now it's oh snap, tech is cool, like tech's always been cool in a Black community, but we just never had a space, especially after college.

Lawrence Phillips:

There was also National Society of Black Engineers. I was part of that and I had about like 10, maybe 15,000 engineers from all over the world. That would come to like the national convention. So even me. That's also what made me get into engineering, because in high school I went to a NSBE convention, saw these black engineers like, oh snap, I could be an engineer, I could be an engineer, and so I think that's similar. But I think Afrotech is the next iteration of it, because it's when you're graduated from college and you're in your professional work environment. You have a space, you have a conference that you can go to that's dedicated to you, your style, your swag, the way you talk. But there's still other big name companies that are still there. You can still be authentic self. So I think I would say that maybe it has grown because it's been a bit more popular, but I think there's now more spaces for you to find yourself, your community, in.

Langston Clark :

I think it's beautiful that two experiences for you that shape what you're doing now was one going to NSBE as a young person, but then also taking those trips with that organization that allowed you to go to. Was it Spain? It was a church, yeah, but then also like Washington State, like white people camp. So Amen.

Lawrence Phillips:

It made it good for a good story. But that camping was no joke. I did track them. My time dropped like two seconds coming back from that trip. Yeah, I was cut. Her backpack was about 80 pounds I started to walk around with so yeah, I got in good shape.

Langston Clark :

That's basically football pads 90 miles, 30 days. Well, we talked about that community you got from Afrotech and all of that. Talk about the we as your co-founders. Who's actually working on the business with you? And how you all manage each other. How you manage as a leader, how they manage as leaders.

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah, so one. It's definitely challenging because, first, to give you a full picture, it's like we bootstrapped until last year, yeah, and so part of I always say this people laugh I watch too much Silicon Valley on HBO and I just see all the ups and downs that entrepreneurs have and how you can get got, and so I was like I always watch that. I actually rewatched it this year and I'm actually on the fourth season now. Like where we are as a business. We're in the fourth season, whereas where I watched it a few years ago we were in season one. The evolution of like, oh snap, like I would pass season two and season three. I'm in season four right now, and so it's super important, I think, to have a team, especially as you grow the company, and so actually the reason why I started growing a team too was I was actually part of another black men's group called Gentleman's Factory in New York, and so a lot of black men, whether you're lawyers and professionals, entrepreneurs, tech or whatever, it's just a community, and so with that, they have different activations.

Lawrence Phillips:

They had our Charles Phillips there, who's pretty big from an investment standpoint, and he said something, whereas it's a red flag to me if you have a company and you don't have a team, because that shows me that your vision no one else has bought into it Like ooh, dang it. You're right, it's a good telltale sign. If you have a team because people buy into your vision, it's like all right, that's a good point. So that actually made me start thinking, opening my eyes to having a team. But, long story short, we have a team of about three or four and I will say, because we are bootstrapping, we got a little bit of funding here and there. A lot of it is just based off of like how much revenue we're making now and they see the long-term benefit. We try to give them perks here and there for travel. But we are formalizing things this year because we do see a line of sight.

Lawrence Phillips:

But we have my wife sometimes talks with like marketing and strategic marketing Cause she's literally that's her day job. We have someone for social media, we have someone with engagement now. So a lot of the things with the team is that kind of the roles switch right because we're a startup and so now that we have, you know, our social media person now, or maybe our two social media person people team is one person going to be social media, other person is going to be engagement, or we focus on email marketing and just getting, like you know, clicks. But now, hey, we're going to focus more on getting bookings, and so that's one of the other things that you can do on the platform is that not only do you feel safer, but you can book with the top brands. So, whether it's Marriott, expedia, bookingcom, viator, Get your Guide, tripadvisor, you can book into all those brands on our platform and get cash back. That's the other two where it's like, literally at no additional cost of you booking on Marriott platform, we get a small commission for sending you over there, and then we give you a cash. We give you part of that back, right? So if it was a thousand bucks, you might get $20 back just because, or $40 back just because you did it on our platform. So that's one of the other benefits of booking on a platform. And then, two, we also have a road trip planner, so one of the road trip planners. It's really taking it back to the original Green Book.

Lawrence Phillips:

So the Green Book was all about driving while black. So it was literally when we were part of the Expedia Celebration. Some of the team actually came to Expedia headquarters. So that was good just to get the team exposure to you know how this big company, one of the biggest OTAs in the world, kind of operates.

Lawrence Phillips:

But what happened there was essentially in Tennessee. A family was pulled over. I think she had like four kids in the car. Dude had a, he had weed in the car and he got, he basically like he got locked up and so the his, you know, he, the, the his girlfriend, basically like went to the station to go, all right, let me go bail him out. You know we'll figure this out. And then they had like the assessor and they took all her kids. Like literally she got there to go bail him out and he took all four of her kids and I think one of her kids was like four.

Lawrence Phillips:

So this was happening during the speed accelerator with the team. And I remember like I went to bed one night and I woke up and I discovered that story and I was like yo, how are we the Green Book that's supposed to help Black people feel safer, but we're not helping this family? Right, it tied it back to the original Green Book. It also was like I think something around road trips around the USA could be super helpful to Black people, considering what happened to this family and what happens all the time that we just don't know about. So it's really like an opportunity to report back about what it's been like driving while Black or what Cesar like in the US by this road trip planner that we have.

Langston Clark :

We talked about we, the team, we the community of entrepreneurs and the group of brothers in New York. I want you to talk a little bit about we and your family, right, Because I think sometimes what a lot of entrepreneurs may struggle with is I got this business and I got this family. How do you balance that? I know your wife is integrated into the work in some ways, but you personally, you know, as a dad, as a husband, how do you balance out being an entrepreneur but also being who you are in your household?

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah. Well, I say I don't know if I do a good job of it. I try. I will say that it's a daily effort that I try to put into that. One thing is I don't sleep a lot, so, yeah, yeah, a lot of times, if I really have to get something done, I might wake up at three o'clock in the morning where it's super quiet, and then I can just pursue and do things for three or four hours, and I still have a day job too. I do that as well. At the same time, I'm just good at my day job at this point.

Lawrence Phillips:

So it's super important for you just to try to make time. So, for example, my wife went away this weekend, so I have both. So we actually have another girl too, so we actually have two kids now. Oh, ok, yeah, that'll be my picture. So I have a six-month-old and a weekend because I had, you know, both my girls, right, and so it's just trying to find space, trying to be respectful.

Lawrence Phillips:

I think it's just trying and try to have an open communication. So, again, I'm not going to say I am the best at it. All I can say is I try my best at it, and so it's definitely a challenge. It's definitely not for the faint of heart. So you know, when Green Book Global does get to the next level, it's a lot of going to be contributed to my wife just kind of holding down the fort a lot of times, but it's definitely not easy.

Lawrence Phillips:

So I think it's something as an entrepreneur, everyone should consider, even when I talk about these groups like Even Bitty Nation, like some of those therapy conversations are about how are people managing with their spouses, and so it's important to know that it is. It's definitely important to be aligned in your household. But I think you know, as long as what you're building, what you're envisioning you know for yourself and your family, you're communicating that to your spouse and you're kind of working to it together to some extent and don't let it be perfect, but to some extent I think that's the best you can do, but always just try to be better which is what I try Interesting.

Langston Clark :

I have a homeboy who is more business orientated than I am. My background is in education, his background is totally in business, okay, but we have these really good conversations about two things that I think may be related to your experience as an entrepreneur. One we both started becoming serious with our wives at the same time, and so we would always have these conversations about the benefits of being married. You know, there's financial benefit beyond just what's obvious merging resources. There's two people using one thing. So an example would be in my household we're a one car household, so we don't use two cars. We don't need two cars either, so that's both of us using one car.

Langston Clark :

But that money, that resource that would go to two cars now could go to my wife's used to have a farm in the backyard, could go to that, or could go to my podcast and things like that. And so you know that mutual support and investment is something that has been a tremendous benefit for me and my small business, and I see how that exists in your world with the support that you get from your wife. But then also, a conversation we've had before was there are these barriers to funding from, you know angel investors, vcs, even historically getting loans from banks for businesses, and so Mahombo and I would always talk about your main job. You could be your own angel investor and you think about your main job as being the VC funding or the angel investment funding. So you mentioned having you still got a job outside of Green Book Global. So do you think of that other work as part of what's funding your main job or do you think of that as just something that just helps you stay afloat to maintain while you're doing your other business?

Lawrence Phillips:

I would say both because you know I have a family, to girls. To me it's just like I'm too calculated to just like go out on a whim, at least right now, to be 100 percent full time on our business, and just because we're still working on our revenue but we're really really close. But I always have backup plans, Right. And so I need a job because I got to get on the table, got to go to school, you know, got to got to buy. So to me it would be I have to be super responsible and calculated with that. So it's super important for me to still have a job. And it also, again, this is how my brain works too. Some people are like I'm just go get funding and just go straight at it. Right, that's my brain doesn't necessarily work like that, it's not saying it's wrong or right, it's just my brain. I'm very methodical and calculated, Like, let think in the longterm that will, you know, be to our benefit.

Lawrence Phillips:

Also, you said something there about you know, you and your homeboy getting married, kind of, or having wives at the same time. And so challenge. Interestingly enough, I actually was challenged whether or not I could be entrepreneur and be married and have kids, Cause I was man, how do you manage this? I don't know how you can do this, this is crazy. And so it was really my, my perspective on it. But I remember I told you some of my homeboys are in tech.

Lawrence Phillips:

So Anthony, who is the founder of Eat Okra, you know, he has a wife, he has a little girl and he's doing really good. And I was like yo. So it's really important to see a reflection of yourself in other people. And I was like yo, it's another black man, Got a nice dark-skinned old wife right there. Yo Keep doing it, so I can do it.

Lawrence Phillips:

And so that actually motivated me because I was reaching like a slump at wall and I was like I don't even know man, this is going to be tough, but seeing him do it and him being successful at it, just yo, it's possible Like you can do it. And it was just like my circle wasn't that big, but he was the first example of that. But now, once I I've been in a circle like there's a lot of people that are in that situation, but as an entrepreneur, your network is super important because you might think you're the only one struggling with something, but when I saw him. You know three, five, 10 steps ahead of me as far as, but still looking very similar to where I want to be. I was like yo, I can still do this. So I think it's important, that's a super important part of just having a strong network, or growing a network, because being married, having kids and still being an entrepreneur is not easy, but it's still possible.

Langston Clark :

Okay, let me ask this question. Let's let's peer into the future. I don't want you to give away any secrets that you got with the business that someone could steal, anything like that. Don't give me any trade secrets away. One, how can folks access Green Book Global? And two, what do you see in terms of the future horizons of Green Book Global?

Lawrence Phillips:

Yeah, so one, download the app. Download the app. Download the app Green Book Global on iOS or Android. Again, we have a ton of different features Our Traveling While Black score. I talked about the Traveling While Black road trip planner. I talked about the AI. We also have something similar like the Open Table for food, but instead of for food, it's for cities. Literally, you can filter cities down by Travel While Black scores, by adventure, by affordability, based off the thousands of reviews that we have on the platform. So all this is available on the app, right? So download the app. That's where, I would say, reach us. Also, instagram, green Book Global as well.

Lawrence Phillips:

We actually work with destinations to help uplift the Black travel experience, and so we will talk about, like, what it's like traveling while Black in Portland or Colorado or something like that, right, and we'll just highlight Black-owned businesses, but also what it's like, what it felt like, being Black in those destinations. So follow us on Instagram as well, on Green Book Global. So I think in the future, we actually I can't, you're right, I got a couple of things I can't say yeah, I would say we really are looking to uplift our community in a way that, with our technology as well that I don't think anyone's ever done before, and so even when people I've demoed it a couple times some of the tech that we have coming out and people are like, oh my gosh, this is like wow, and so very few people know what we're coming out with, but it's going to come out next year. Ai is part of it. Well, that's one part of it. The other part is pretty dope and it's all related to traveling in the USA and being safer, and so, yeah, we definitely have some great things coming. So I would just advise you to download the app.

Lawrence Phillips:

We have a community feature in the app too, so it's not only reviews, but you can just chat about travel, so we actually have a social media feed for travel. We also have groups in there too, so, whether you're LGBTQ the Sensibility Group, women's Group, men's group, north America group being a black truckers group in there now, too, solo traveler group Okay, a lot of different groups themselves. I was really trying to understand. Again, we unapologetically go after black people, but we understand we're not monolithic. There's money layers to us, and so those groups are effort to try to represent the complete you on the platform.

Lawrence Phillips:

So, definitely if you want to have a group, because maybe you organize trips, you know, joe, and if you have a festival that you're having or a conference, we have that ability to make those groups for that conference or for that event. But for that community, if you want to grow community and maybe you're on WhatsApp, you'll come off WhatsApp. Go on Green Book Global. We can give you a better experience and you can book and do all this travel stuff on the app too. That's good.

Langston Clark :

And you know. My last question is what books are you currently reading, or is there a book that you have read that has inspired your journey as an entrepreneur?

Lawrence Phillips:

So the books that I'm currently reading are probably like Llama Llama in my Pajama, because I have a lot of little girls that I got to read a lot of books to yeah, these kiddie books I'd be reading. But I will say one of the best books or really the most instrumental book, I think even in the evolution of Green Book Global was a book called Blue Ocean. I don't remember the name, I don't remember the author. We look up Blue Ocean.

Langston Clark :

It's the Blue Ocean strategy, isn't it? Blue Ocean strategy?

Lawrence Phillips:

Yes, and so what it did this is literally how I built the business. The best example it did is like how did Circus LA come into fruition? Right, come into creation? And it basically took ballet and it took just a normal circus and combined different aspects to it to make a brand new target market. And I was like, oh snap, that's dope, because you're taking kind of bits and pieces of things that already exist and then combining it to kind of make a better and a more unique product.

Lawrence Phillips:

So if you think about Green Book Global, that's what we literally have done. Like we're a trip advisor but instead of reviewing activities, we review cities. Instead of OpenTable, where you have that search for the defined restaurants, you can actually find cities that way From a Waze or Google. We have our Driving While Black Road Trip Planner. It helps you navigate traffic, but we can navigate how safe these cities are off of these scores that we have From your Facebook or your Instagram feed. We added a community feed now to it, right, so now you have the social media aspect to it. Added a community feed now to it right, so now you have the social media aspect to it, and then even from your WhatsApp or your group needs, where you want to have your own tight-knit community. We offer that on our platform as well.

Lawrence Phillips:

So what we did is we tried to take bits and pieces of it, but all around the theme of black and travel, and that's what everything comes back down to. It boils down to being black and travel, and so, yeah, that blue ocean fundamentally changed the way I looked at the way businesses are operating and how to make a market that maybe doesn't exist, and so you know, black markets already always existed, but I don't think you know a lot of companies or people paid attention to it. But what I found is to build tech that you know was super impactful to our community. I used that philosophy to do it, to really give us the best product. I think that's out there.

Langston Clark :

All right, lawrence Phillips, thank you for joining us. Lawrence is the founder of Green Book Global. I encourage all listeners to go out there and check out the website, but also download the app. There's going to be some new creative and amazing things coming out here in the near future. Lawrence, again thank you for joining us on Entrepreneurial Appetite.

Lawrence Phillips:

Thank you.

Langston Clark :

Green Book Global black travel made easy. Thank you for joining this edition of Entrepreneurial Appetite. If you liked the episode, you can support the show by becoming one of our founding 55 patrons, which gives you access to our live discussions and bonus materials, or you can subscribe to the show. Give us five stars and leave a comment.