From Trick-or-Treat to Communion: Exploring Sacred Community

Pastor Tara welcomes Heidi Marsh Stayboldt, artist and founder of Sanctuary & Table. They discuss the intersection of art, spirituality, and the celebration of Halloween. They reflect on the origins of Halloween, emphasizing community, creativity, and remembrance of loved ones. Heidi shares experiences from her travels and the impact of art in her spiritual journey, including a profound encounter in Italy. The episode highlights the importance of embracing fear and using it to foster community and connection. They conclude by discussing the role of creativity and art in enriching spiritual practices and fostering a sense of belonging.

Transcript

S6 E26 From Trick-or-Treat to Communion: Exploring Sacred Community with Heidi Marsh Stayboldt of Sanctuary & Table

[00:00:00] 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Hi there, friends of Holy Shenanigans podcast. This is Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman, as you know, a pastor, podcaster and practitioner of holy shenanigans. And if there's ever a time for some holy shenanigans, I guess Halloween would be the time to.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Take part in some trick or treating. But before we get into that, I wanna give a warm welcome to Heidi. Heidi and I met at the Wild Goose Festival this summer, and we just, had such a wonderful conversation. She did a wonderful session on looking at art as a spiritual practice, and invited us into learning what we can.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: About ourselves, the world, and God through art.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Am so glad to have met you this summer. I felt like we just, got each other immediately so [00:01:00] anyway, I'm super excited to be here and let's see me, I hearken from this greater Seattle area. And I have my master's in theology and Culture and art.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I am also a practicing artist. I have two very distinct, interesting niches. I'm a 18th and 19th century European furniture Refinisher. So that's one thing which is very different and niche. And then the other is I do, abstract art and my medium is plaster. that is I think, secondary to my, passion for using and teaching art as a way to connect with the divine.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I have an organization called Sanctuary and Table. the mission of that organization is to help you strengthen and deepen. The relationship with yourself, with others, and the divine through art and making and contemplative practices. So it's kind of where [00:02:00] art, neuroscience, faith, spirituality, social justice and travel kind of all converged to, accomplish that goal.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So that's what I do. And let's see, I have a 14-year-old son and a very large Bernese Mountain dog. So that's kind of me in in a nutshell.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much. But first and foremost, are you team Candy, corn,

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Ooh,

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: or are you not Team Candy corn.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I have to say I'm Team Candy Corn. Yep.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So happy.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah. I, I'm one of the weird people. I do like it, but I have to say my favorite is Reese's. I'm a Reese's, like, I will steal my child's Reese's. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So currently sitting in my office is a giant bowl of these that I've avoided all week. I don't know how, I love the season of Halloween and I'll give you a little bit of background of why I love it is yes, it can be scary [00:03:00] and I'm not even a person that really likes spooky, scary stuff. Even growing up when we would wear Halloween costumes, it was always with the, encouragement to not be anything. Go or violent. Right. So I still have a lot to choose from. I remember going into like a little box store when there were only little tiny box stores where I lived and choosing my Halloween costume, and I was just a little, little and my first Halloween I remember was dressing up as Wonder Woman 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: holy shenanigans.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: You Wonder Woman too. Heidi 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: my whole thesis was on Wonder Woman. I presented my thesis in June in a Wonder Woman costume.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: are you kidding

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: No.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So for those of you who are listening to our conversation, I wish you could have seen Heidi's face when I said Wonder Woman, she was like, she couldn't breathe. It was amazing.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I didn't do the cheap one. I went and got the cosplay one, the travel portion of Sanctuary and table is called Wings of [00:04:00] Wonder, it's to help bridge and bring people from that space of wandering, W-A-N-D-E-R like wandering especially a lot of us who have been.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: in that ex evangelical space and we don't feel like we have a home or community or. A place to belong and bringing us through to a place of wonder, W-O-N-D-E-R. And that journey from wonder to wonder and embracing a, a black and white binary system of thinking to embracing one of wonder in awe of the divine and of ourselves and using art as that vehicle.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And so. as the guide for that, I was Wonder Woman and then of course embrace the whole costume and I've, yeah, so, I grew up loving Wonder Woman. My dad came home one day with a signed autograph from Linda Carter 'cause he ran into her in the elevator. So I still hold that very dear. So the fact that you brought [00:05:00] that up is just crazy to me.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh my goodness. I'm glad that my very first Halloween costume was a great connector for us.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah,

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: You never know. My friends, when you are, getting to know people you never know what you just might have in common. 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: exactly. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: so I loved Wonder Woman. And as I grew up, I, got really creative and tried to use like resources I had around my house.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I had seen somebody dress up in one of those ginormous, multicolored wigs with a costume one time, there was no spirit store anywhere near me. So. In my imagination, I was like, what do I have? I have grocery brown bag, I have cotton balls, and I have paint and glue.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I don't even think I was a clown. I don't know. I just was like so enamored with this wig thing that I wanted to create it and wear it Halloween was a good excuse but I think more than the costumes, was this way of engaging in this enchanting creative [00:06:00] process.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Mm-hmm.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: of seeing something or being inspired by something and somehow like putting that on or, embodying it in a way, whether it was through making it or wearing it or, you know, designing a jack-o-lantern and spending days designing it and then carving it very carefully. For me that was a space of discovery where I was like, oh, I love to make things.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Mm-hmm.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And so when people say, oh, well you're a pastor. Why in the world do you love Halloween? I'm like, oh my goodness, why wouldn't I?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Exactly.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: It's a great opportunity to be creative and I love that. One of the things I picked up on what you said was that it was the scarcity of having a resource that made you more creative.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes. So, because you couldn't go down to the spirit store, you got what you have, and I bet you had a million times more fun putting together that whatever it was that you put together than [00:07:00] if you had just gone down to the store and gotten it.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh yeah. I mean, I probably wouldn't be talking about it to you. Okay.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah, because you remembered it.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I think that there's something really important about making things and I could talk about that all day. there's also something in making things that helps to call us into connection and community, and some might say even some senses of communion.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Absolutely. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So would you like to share your favorite Halloween costume from when you were little? the one that comes to mind is a very similar story to yours in that I had this vision of something I wanted to create and I don't remember where I saw it, but again, they didn't have Spirit Halloween back then and couldn't. Go buy something.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: But my dad was in the pharma industry and we would get these large shipments of boxes all the time. And so we had this plethora of boxes I wanted to be a popcorn box. I don't know [00:08:00] why that was

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I think that's a brilliant idea. Who would not want to be something that is associated with popcorn?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It's 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: delicious. 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I know. Skinny pop. It's my favorite snack. So maybe it's this like subconscious desire for popcorn, who knows? But I took one of those refrigerator boxes then I went to the store and got styrofoam, you know, little balls and I, painted them and I stacked them on top. So I made this giant, like I was in the box and then I became the box of popcorn.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And I, you know, painted the outside kind of that red and white striped. You know, like the, popcorn box. And so then there was holes for my hands, and I wrote Jolly Time popcorn on the outside and it looked so disheveled. But again, because I made it that's what I remember. I don't necessarily remember princess costume that my mom got me or whatever.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I, remember the stuff that I made. 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And I've been making. Stuff like that since that age, just like you, I love being creative [00:09:00] and I have a closet full of costumes. I love to dress up. That's why I love Halloween. So any chance I can be creative and dress up, I even dress up for protests every time I go.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So yeah, it's fun.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I wanna talk with you a little bit more about the origins of Halloween. And for me, I consider it this sacred time because you have all hallow Eve that leads into All Saints Day. So in my tradition, that's a really important day where you remember everybody who has passed in the last year and you say their names, you like candles.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Sometimes people will create a table with their, photos of their loved ones. And no FrieNDA renda if you're from a Mexican tradition. for me, again, the creative part of Halloween, the communal part of Halloween of everybody going out and trick or treating and, you know, having a fantastic time on that night and then that remembrance of those people who have passed.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I just, I love [00:10:00] the whole arc of it.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah, me too. I think the juxtaposition between the two is such a beautiful thing and. It saddens me that beauty has been lost on a lot of people. Like a lot of people don't know that. It's either become this thing that you don't do and you have an alternative thing because it's seen as.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I dunno, scary, evil, whatever you wanna use. And then, if you still celebrate it's become so commercialized and non-com communal and stressful. And yeah. So I would love to reclaim it for what it is that it was intended for.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So tell us more. What was it actually intended for Heidi?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah. So there are a couple things that I think are interesting to know. I think one the dressing up cause we talked about that and then the whole candy thing. So, trick or treating and dressing up go hand in hand. They go [00:11:00] back to the Celtic tradition, Celtic religion, Celtic spirituality and a festival called Samhain I think I'm pronouncing that correctly.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: It was marking, the ending of harvest and going into the winter season. And so it was believed that, all Hallows Eve on the 31st, that was like the thinnest veil between Earth and the Spirit world. And for many people it was very, very scary. so they lit all of these huge bonfires to ward off evil spirits to stay safe.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And to appease, the spirit world of the gods. And one of the things that they did though, which I find very interesting, that instead of staying in their homes and shutting the doors and closing the windows and hiding is they did the opposite. They went out, but in order to protect themselves, they would wear costumes.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So they would wear a mask. , And it wasn't like. dressing up as superheroes or, or what have you, until [00:12:00] it got commercialized in the United States. nor it was it gore, but they would dress up as things to kind of,

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: hide them from these, spirits.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And so they would often wear a mask when they were out and about. And then that relates though to the, trick or treating. They didn't. Hand out candy. But what they would do is in an effort or a bid for community or connection, they would go to another person's house. There was an exchange, a beautiful exchange between a prayer, yes, prayer and a treat.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And back then they were called soul cakes and they were these little sweet cakes that the homeowner would, bake and handout. in exchange for that, the person who came to the door would say a prayer or a blessing for the homeowner and any buddy that they had lost any past relatives.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: it was, was this beautiful exchange of care and communion and community. A lot of times when I hear [00:13:00] stories like this, I try to put myself in it. Like if somebody came to my door. And my mom had passed away and they said, you know what? We just wanna, pray for you and the loss and the grieving that you've had over your mom.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I'd be blown away. who does that these days? Right? of course I would give them a cookie or a soul cake it's just such a beautiful thing. And so that is how the exchange of treats became part of that tradition. And, I just think it's beautiful, 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: One blessing for another blessing.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah, yeah. All around treats, great for me 'cause I love sugar.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I can't help but think about breaking bread with people. Obviously over, any kind of meal. But I think too, in the sacrament sense of communion. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Of making bread. And there's this part of the liturgy before the words of institution that talks about how everybody of all space and time is together at that table[00:14:00] 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: here in the 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I love that. Wow.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I love that part of the preparation before receiving the elements and sharing those with people. Another part that I love as a pastor being able to share communion with people is to be able to say, this cup for you, or this cup of mercy given for you, or this, bread of life given for you.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And to, say that to each person as they come forward. and again, it's a corporate all together communal experience. That recognizes the corporate body, but also the individual. And I don't think there's very many places that that happens.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: When I lived in Boston they do Halloween really big out there they had almost what was like an open house, they had like this party with hot dogs and cider and, people would invite people into their homes strangers and they had a bonfire and people lingered and stayed and it wasn't this [00:15:00] like really fast transactional thing. It was actually this breaking of bread, this Eucharist that was, you know. Spread and wine and all of those things.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And it, it, it was, yeah. So where you were talking about that, it reminded me of that, experience that I had when I lived in Boston and, what a beautiful, you know, again picture of community around something that normally is seen as scary and transactional. So, yeah.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I'm wondering what do you think we can learn from this history about the origins of Halloween and community and connection? What do you think we need to carry with us?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: There's a general, message here around community, but, that can be really taken and talked about any time of the year. How I think it relates specifically to Halloween is around the topic of fear and scariness and spookiness, when people would wear costumes in Sanin it struck me that there was this [00:16:00] legitimate fear and terror and instead of isolating they took that fear and they turned it into fuel for community it wasn't like people were just. Burning sage in their homes.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: They were around these bonfires and together trying to ward off this evil. you know, if you wanna take that metaphor and apply it to today, we are really living in a time of significant fear and a lot of evil and, I think you have a choice. You can either stay in your home and close the door and not open and put your head in the sand, or you can gear up, wear your costume, and bring your, prayer, your offering, your soul cake out into the world with somebody else in community to ward off.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: The evil [00:17:00] spirits we have a beautiful opportunity to take fear and transmute it for good and for fuel into something that's beautiful, that's community, that's progressive, that's life changing and affirming and beautiful.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: your perspective on that. Brought back a memory and I'll, try to be brief in sharing it, but I grew up in a really conservative church background and I was this kind of weird kid who loved talking about God and theology, but I also loved, you know, Halloween and the arts. And so sometimes that was like an awkward position to be. 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I know it. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: My pastor at the time pastor Allen I went to him and said, oh, could we have a Halloween party? And he is like, well, what do you wanna do? And I, I said, well, we could turn the nursery into a sort of scary, like, oh gosh. Like haunted house [00:18:00] by like having cold grapes and cold spaghetti and people have to touch the, you know, like super cheesy, 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: right? 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Love it.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: and he was like, okay. And I said, I go, oh, and there's something else I would love to do. And he said, dress up. I'm like, yeah. He is like, yeah, you guys can dress up whatever, you know, bring in the neighborhood kids, it'd be great. And I said, well, one more thing. I want to watch the black and white little shop of horrors

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Oh yes.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: old, the old one.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And he was like. well, the biggest space we have is a sanctuary.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: pastor Allen man, he had my back on that he could have very well responded with fear

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: and just said. No, we're not doing this right. He didn't do that. And so then all of a sudden we had some, younger people come in and getting involved with some things.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: They knew that they could go there and be themselves and, have fun. But for myself, it did give me a clue that [00:19:00] this love of creative things is something that can help bring life to the world and also to the church.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Amen. Amen. Amen. I spent a good portion of time this summer over in Italy doing research for pilgrimage trips that I'm gonna be leading at the intersection of art and faith one of the takeaways from, that trip was the difference in the individual versus the collective and the grind culture versus the rest culture, the contemplation versus the action.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: St. Francis and St. Clare those are my peeps. And I was there really examining their life and how they chose to leave lives of privilege, into a life of community with the poor, literally going naked [00:20:00] into their service.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I mean, St. Francis stripped of his clothes and he walked away from everything that he had, including his inheritance and his family and his dad, and went and lived a leper Colony and St. Clare did the same. And, How the Italian culture lives and breathes around family and friends and linger and the coming back into the states after having kind of experienced that.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Not as necessarily tourists, but as somebody who was kind of pseudo living there was really eyeopening for me. And I have just felt this tug on my heart of like, I am not cut out for living in this individualistic Grind culture that we have here in the United States, especially where I, live.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I've really just been assessing this, desire and need for community and what that means for my friendships. And, I just keep hearing, I'm too [00:21:00] busy, I'm too busy, I'm too busy, I can't, you know, and I'm like, if we are too busy to spend time with each other in community. Then we're too busy, period.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: There was an article, that came out from Dr. Paul Horde, who was one of my professors at the Seattle School about the facade of community, and I know this is gonna sound like it's counterintuitive to what I'm saying, but the point of the article is that we can chase and romanticize community. And I think, honestly , I've been kind of doing that with the whole Italian thing. But his point was that we will never belong like a hundred percent perfectly.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: That true love and belonging is found in the lack of it. Meaning that if, we are vulnerable enough to show up with our empty. Bags wanting some candy. Then we are able to receive that and it's the recognition of the lack in another and in ourselves. And [00:22:00] then that pursuit of desire together is what creates true community.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So if you had relating it back to Halloween, your little orange plastic pumpkin, and it was full and overflowing with candy. Well, I can't speak for everybody, but are you gonna continue to go house to house looking for candy? , You're already overflowing with everything. It's in the lack of having candy that you go out and search for it.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And it is in that lack and that search for something that you don't have, that you allow somebody else to give it to you and vice versa. you know, I think that, this experience I had with just kind of the juxtaposition between these two cultures and my, insatiable desire for community and then seeing that article and having you and I talk about this has really just given me a lot of fodder for.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Really contemplating what it means to belong what [00:23:00] community looks like and where to find it and what is my, you know, responsibility in that. So I don't know that I have an answer for you, but it's all kind of converged in literally this last week which I don't think it's a mistake.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So for me personally and professionally, like how does art and the, things that I'm wanting, to create how can that play a part in it? how can we use art and making and travel and all those things to become a conduit for facilitating belonging and community?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. So, one thing I wanted to say, connecting back to presiding for communion is that another part of that exchange that I love is that, you know, when you're coming forward, you're coming forward with empty hands.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yes.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Receive, and so that's another really important part of whether I am receiving the sacrament.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And even when I preside, I prefer for somebody else to serve me at the [00:24:00] table than to serve myself. It just feels like odd.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: but I think that's a really important point. I'm curious too, Heidi, so I alluded to, or maybe just outright said, you know, that arts and creativity are, really important in the church story that I shared and you were like, yes. Yeah, same men. If you could say to somebody, why are arts important to spirituality or faith? What would you say, Heidi?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I'm so glad you asked that question. I would say two things. I think. From a very academic heady space which is not nearly as important as what I'll say next, but understanding how art has played a significant role in the culture of religion since the beginning of time is so, so, so important.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And it is integral to how our theology has been shaped and how it was communicated. And , [00:25:00] as we look at kind of where we're at today and, what religion and spirituality and our relationship with God looks like is so shaped by art and we may not even realize it. but it's been erased with the exception of music, maybe in a large part from the western evangelical spaces.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So there's that, but more importantly. I wholeheartedly believe that art, and, I don't mean being an artist, and I wanna be very clear about that. I mean. Engaging with art beholding art, interacting with art and making it. and that can be anything from cooking to visual art, to music, to dance, to poetry, to spoken word.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: All of these different art forms help move us. From up here and you, you those of you can't see it. I'm pointing to our head down to our hearts because art is something that we embody, that we feel in our [00:26:00] physical body. And it can really significantly help us connect to God in a way. That is different than what many of us have grown up on, and that's this hedy two dimensional just reading of scripture or hearing a sermon.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Like those are the two ways that we have, you know. Gotten from God and even prayer is all of us talking. Right. So it's, not being in this receptive place. And it's just our thinking brain and art bypasses that I won't go into all the neuroscience, but I, would if I could.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: 'cause a fascinating subject, but it really can help us. Bring the Holy Spirit into an embodied place in our life and help us see things and notice things and feel things that we never would have if we had stayed in this heady very verbose two dimensional intellectual experience with God.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I am here [00:27:00] for, encouraging people to engage with that heart space. yes. We need our minds, we need our intellect, but we cannot forget the heart.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: It's a dual relationship. It's a head in the heart together. I think a lot of times, even churches that are like, yes, let's do art it's, well, let's put something pretty on the wall, you know? And it's so much more than that. It's, how do we infuse it in our ministry, in our offerings, to our parishioners, to the people that we serve?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: and as clergy? Tara, I think you'll appreciate this. Clergy are one of the most, loneliest, depressed. People on the face of this planet because you are isolated and you feel so alone. Oftentimes, like the loneliness epidemic for, pastors, especially men is off the charts.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And I believe there is a significant space and opportunity for art to help [00:28:00] heal and provide respite. And healing for, those people who are in the helping professions, Yeah. I know for myself that I have art prayer practices that are just. For me.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Yeah.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And I don't necessarily get to engage with them as much as I would like, just because life in a helping profession can be a little unpredictable, as you can imagine. However there are certain practices and my Celtic Daily Prayer book I love because it helps me to, I look at.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: The scriptures, but then I'll also get a beautiful poem from John O'Donohue, you know,

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Literally have that book right there.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: and it helps me to slow down

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: and integrate the heart and the head on a almost everyday practice. 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: and there's so much science behind that, again, if we had three hours. even doing that in as simple as, journaling, writing, [00:29:00] scribbling, drawing coloring can really help you process and open up, if you need, inspiration for a sermon, like even just. Spending some time doing that to allow yourself to, kind of get out of your head and back into your body is really helpful. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So if folks are looking to find where you are, Heidi, where do you direct them?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I can be found at www.sanctuaryandtable.com. And the email is hello@sanctuaryandtable.com and, I facilitate retreats and I do speaking engagements And soon travel coming up this spring will be our first trip to Assis and we'll be going to Florence and Assisi to look at the lives of St.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Francis in St. Clare , I am pretty sure it's going to be geared towards people in the helping profession. So there's that. And my socials can [00:30:00] be found at the bottom of my website

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Awesome. Thank you so much. So I have a practice of either reading a poem or asking sometimes a guest to give a poem or a blessing, but I am not gonna put you on the spot today.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Thank you.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I wrote this song called Eucharist in 2007. I was really wrestling with a sense of call to ministry. I was with this great 1001 new congregation Presbyterian Church as a lay person on their staff. And I was doing a lot of music. And so I wrote this song about Eucharist, it's all about communion.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: But it's also about being together with others. 

Speaker: The that draw.[00:31:00] 

Speaker: The shallow push past the.

Speaker: Break each day. Hold.[00:32:00] 

Speaker: We drawn by love and grace all as one.

Speaker: How does the table dress

Speaker: and.[00:33:00] 

Speaker: The.

Speaker: This to the heart of the world,[00:34:00] 

Speaker: the message

Speaker: this.

Speaker: The.

Speaker: Fill. Need[00:35:00] 

Speaker: to fill bread to break. Each day, hold

Speaker: each day. Hold.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: you had asked me. If there was maybe another shenanigan story that related to this, and your song just embodies this story, the first year of my, theology degree. I just felt this calling to start my business [00:36:00] and I was just gonna call it The sanctuary, which isn't super creative, but I wanted it to be a refuge. Right? And there's lots of places called the Sanctuary. So, I started, just talking to some, friends and mentors about one of my vision and I was going through a class where we were, really having a lot of interfaith dialogue I had just finished, my certification as a spiritual literacy facilitator in spirituality and practice. And it was a very ecumenical, various religions, no religion group of people. one of the, things that was really pressing on my heart there was creating a table.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: A space for interfaith dialogue and I had a vision, a prophetic dream of sorts where my business was going to be there. I had this vision of a round table and people, a various face sitting around the table. And we were talking about things, but it was like through the lens of the different [00:37:00] arts.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And so it was like visual art, , cinema , spoken word painting, all of these things, right. I was writing my thesis proposal at the time and I incorporated this into my thesis proposal and I turned it in. It was March. I was ready to go and then I left on my first trip to Assisi.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: This was March of 2024, I decided to stay in Rome by myself for a few days to acclimate before meeting my group in Assisi. three or four days in, I saw this restaurant and it was gorgeous. I'm huge sucker for aesthetics. It was in these cave walls and there was flickering lanterns on the side, on the inside and frescoes all over.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I'm like, I have to come back to this restaurant. But I was by myself and I was going through divorce, and I was feeling honestly really sorry for myself. Like maybe I should just come back here when I have a date. And then I'm like, you know what, one in Rome, I'm gonna come back by myself.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: So I come back the next night there's a line out the door. so I get in line and it [00:38:00] starts to pour. And I thankfully had an umbrella and I put my umbrella up this couple comes up behind me and he goes and asks the hostess, can my wife stand under the eve of the restaurant?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: 'cause it's raining? And she's like, no. Then everybody else would have to, she was kind of not nice. so I'm thinking to myself, oh God. I'm gonna have to offer her my umbrella, aren't I? Because that would be the polite thing to do. But I was kind of in this space of like, I didn't wanna talk to anybody. I didn't wanna make small talk, but something prompted me.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: The Holy Spirit to offer my umbrella. And I'm like, would you like to come under my umbrella with me? And her husband's like, she would, but I'll be fine. So she comes and we start talking and they're this couple from Turkey. And one thing led to another and I find out they're a Muslim couple.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: They're asking me why I'm there and I'm like, I'm on pilgrimage you could just tell there was some uneasiness there. But we ended up talking for about 15 minutes and as we're making our way to the front of the line.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: The hostess was like, table for three. And I said, no, no, no. I'm by myself. [00:39:00] And of course them being Turkish, they're like, no, no, no, she's having dinner with us. And I'm like, no, it's fine. I don't wanna interrupt. And we went through this back and forth thing, right?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: And. Finally, they're like, no, we insist. So a little begrudgingly. 'cause again, I know how long dinners in Italy are, and I kind of just wanted to be by myself, but I, I'm so glad I did. We're sitting there enjoying, letting the wine flow and, eating, and we're, quickly becoming friends and we're, talking about Old Testament and beautiful shared Abrahamic religion, things that we just.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Share together. And it was just this beautiful conversation and I'm thinking to myself this is kind of what I had envisioned in my dream of just this dialogue. And just as I'm saying that the husband goes look at this, fresco, and he, points up above us on the ceiling, and I just about fell out of my chair because it was what I had seen in my [00:40:00] dream. It was a round table with people. Seated around it and on the table were these little discs. I had this, a gape look on my face and he is like, what?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: I'm like, you wouldn't understand. But you know, I just had one of those moments of like, the Holy Spirit's here. Like, dang, I am seated under this vision that I had at the table. Talking to somebody of a different faith. So I take a picture of it and we exchange information. I now have friends in Turkey.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: They've invited me to their home. Like it's just this beautiful thing. I get back to my hotel and I'm reflecting on this, and I pull up the pictures on my phone and so of course I zoom in, right?

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Still, to this day, it gives me chills. I told you there were these little plates on the table. The little plates had Italian writing on them and on each plate, wouldn't, you know, it was a form of art. One said dance, one said cinema, one said architecture one [00:41:00] said painting 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: it was all of the things that I had put in my thesis proposal as a way to have these conversations.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wow, that's amazing.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: At that moment I knew. One that, that had to be in my name. And two, that, that was part of my mission, was to use art to create a space of belonging and welcome and shalom and inclusiveness for everybody to sit around that table and break bread together and have wine together, and that we embody the life of Jesus in the 3D in what we do.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Every day, people of all faith. So anyway, I'm getting emotional about it, but I received my calling on that trip in another way too, but that was a very pivotal moment for me. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Talk about carrying that meal to the heart of the world and, you know, carrying that message of hope restored and know that you are seen and part of something bigger and that [00:42:00] fear was not allowed to steal away that community.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: Nope. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you so much.

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: you're welcome. It was 

Heidi Marsh Stayboldt: such a pleasure. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Happy Halloween to you. So I am your holy shenanigans muse. Tara Lamont Eastman. Thank you for joining, Heidi and I for holy shenanigans that surprise, redirect, encourage and turn life upside down in the name of love. This is always an unpredictable spiritual adventure that is always sacred and never ever stuffy.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thanks to Ian Eastman for sound production. Thank you so much, Heidi, for being with us. And if you want to support the production of Holy Shenanigans [00:43:00] Podcast, you can go to www.buymeacoffee.com/tara l Eastman. Until next time, may you be well. May you be at peace. May you know that you are beloved and get out there.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wear that costume and then also celebrate your beloveds that have passed on All Saints day. that connection is really what it's all about, my friends. So don't let anything take that away from you. Just be with you.