Creating Magic Under the Big Top: The Making of Death Trick: Double Blind

Every so often, a conversation reignites that childlike spark of wonder we all hold dear, and our latest chat with Jenny and Mari of Misty Mountain Studio does just that. They share their journey from RPG Maker enthusiasts to indie game creators, weaving the tale of their brainchild, "Death Trick: Double Blind." Set against the vibrant backdrop of a 1950s American circus, they unfold the mysteries and inspirations that drove their detective game's creation. Step right up and listen to how a shared past, a passion for narrative, and a dash of nostalgia have brought to life a world where the enchanting allure of the circus meets the gritty reality of its existence.

It's not just about the big top and its bedazzling acts; it's the soul of the characters that brings our discussion alive. The duo delves into the heart of their cast, from Yan's cultural richness to Aideen's intricate web of relationships and how personal experiences shaped these digital beings.  So, take a seat and prepare to be captivated by how Jenny and Mari artfully balance the whimsical and the profound, ensuring that each player leaves the show with memories as vivid as the most spectacular circus performance.

Check out Death Trick: Double Blind

Follow Death Trick: Double on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DT_DoubleBlind
Buy the game on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2254710/Death_Trick_Double_Blind/
Buy the game on Nintendo Switch:
https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/death-trick-double-blind-switch/

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Transcript

Death Trick Double Blind Game Creation

Speaker 1 0:00

This episode of Gamer Heads is brought to you by Magic Mind, the healthy energy drink that will help you take your creativity to a new level.

Speaker 2 0:08

Hi, I'm Celia Schilling from Yacht Club Games.

Speaker 1 0:11

Hey, this is James from Mega Cat Studios. Hey, this is Matt AK Stormer-Geddon from Reignite Screen, snark and the Fun and Games podcast.

Speaker 2 0:19

This is Stephanie from the Boss Rush podcast and the Boss Rush Network.

Speaker 1 0:23

Hey, this is Mark and Keon from Bonta Off-Owned. Hey, this is Sebastian with theproteonerreportcom and the Single Player Experience podcast. Hi, this is Chris Mike.

Speaker 3 0:34

And Garrett from Daylight Basement.

Speaker 1 0:35

Studio. Hey, this is BaronJ67 from Level 1 Gaming. Hey, this is Todd Mitchell from Code Right Play Salutations. This is Mike Carroll from Stroll Art. Hey, this is Jeff Moonen from Fun and Games podcast. Hey, this is Patrick from the Backlog Odyssey.

Speaker 2 0:50

Hey, this is Rune from Runeic Codes. Hi, this is Andrew from Spalato Birds. Hi everyone, jill Grote here from the Indie. Informer.

Speaker 3 0:58

Hey, this is Brimstone and you're listening to Roger Reichardt on the GamerHeads podcast and welcome to another episode of the GamerHeads podcast.

Speaker 1 1:13

My name is Roger With me this week. I have two very special guests. I'm really excited about this episode. I have Jenny and Mari, the creators of the game Death Trick Double Blind. Thank you so much for joining me.

Speaker 3 1:26

Thank you for having us Hi.

Speaker 1 1:29

So before we talk about the game, I just want to get to know both of you a little bit more. Tell us about yourself and what got you both into making games.

Speaker 3 1:39

So I'm Mari, I'm the writer, I'm the producer, I do some of the programming of the game.

Speaker 2 1:46

And I'm Jenny and, as I said, I'm in charge of all the things visual in the game, including character design and animations, and also including the promotional assets like trailer editing and also social media managing Everything, just like everything, visual.

Speaker 3 2:06

Yeah, so we were actually high school friends, so we went to the same high school in the same year, so we've known each other for more than 10 years. Yeah, exactly 10 years, yeah. So we met each other in math class, where neither of us were paying that much attention to math. So I remember Jenny doodling in her notebook like drawing stuff, and I remember I was just playing games on my mobile phone and I was writing lyrics and poetry and stuff. So I think at the time I already know I wanted to write for a living and Jenny already knew she wanted to be an artist, so but at the time neither of us thought like making games is a real job.

Speaker 2 2:56

We just thought like game is something like a big company makes and then we just consume it. Yeah, you didn't know like people can be playing on small teams.

Speaker 3 3:04

Yeah, we didn't know any games or a scene basically, but we started. We lived at school as well, so we lived in the same dorm and we were watching these like Ness Play videos together and there were at the time streamers on Chinese websites making videos about Japanese free games and like kind of RPG maker stuff like the Witch's House and stuff like that. So that's kind of our earliest impression of indie games at the time, that they weren't even called indie games but we were kind of really inspired by like the narratives and stuff. I remember one of the lifetimes playing this game I think it was on each IO called Presentable Liberty. I don't even know which website it's on, because at the time we didn't even have Steam or anything like that.

Speaker 3 3:58

But, yeah, that's kind of the earliest interaction with indie games that we had. Yeah.

Speaker 1 4:05

Nice.

Speaker 3 4:06

And then we graduated university. You know, by then I already I was a like Steam, indie game player. And then we I saw this company, our studio, a Missy Mountain Studio, post their trailer on social media. So I followed them and I saw them, you know, looking for game designers. So I applied and three days later, you know, they said, oh, we're looking for a game artist. So I hit Jenny off. I was like, oh, by any chance? Yeah, she was. So you know, long story short, we end up at the same studio together and then, after we finished our previous project with the whole studio, we proposed to our boss, basically, that we, the two of us want to form a tiny team and make this game together.

Speaker 1 4:54

Yeah, Wow, wow, wow. That's awesome. That's quite the path, that's amazing. And so so what I mean? I guess, for those that are not familiar with the game, can you tell us a little bit about the game. What is, what does this game about? And yeah, let's talk about, let's start there, what's this game about?

Speaker 2 5:14

That's True. Double Blind is like a detective story set in 1950s American circus and there are like two protagonists coming to the circus just to find out the mysterious magician's disappearance, and then one is a detective, like a kind of like a stereotypical detective, and now another is a replacement magician, like who's looking for to replace missing magician. So there's two lines going at the same time and then you, as a player, you play as them to figure out what's going on in the circus and who is the true murderer.

Speaker 3 5:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:59

Yeah, yeah. I just filed a bad, but everyone knows.

Speaker 3 6:03

It happens in the. You know that it was in the first 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 6:07

But yeah, taylor, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:11

So why can I? I'm going to ask a question that I didn't provide to you ahead of time. Why did you choose to set this in America in the 1930s? But what? What was your thought there?

Speaker 3 6:23

It's the 1950s actually, but I'm sorry I will give you a complete breakdown of our software process. We started we had this idea for a detective story, first without figuring out the setting, because we just had this idea about a case, and then we started looking at which setting we felt would fit the game best. We very quickly decided on the circus. I don't know why. It's just one of those thoughts that pop up in your head. Once we decided on the circus, we looked at the history of circuses.

Speaker 2 7:04

Circuses.

Speaker 3 7:06

Circuses are the shirt myself, actually the traveling circus is a very uniquely American invention because at the time a lot of European circuses were actually only in one city and they performed there like a routine show. But then in America, because the land was so vast and they wanted to see our audience everywhere, they started this business model of traveling on trains and going to every city like every other day, every other week, and then it was later also utilized in Europe and all over the world and American traveling circuses even moved continents to perform in other continents. So it's a kind of American concept and we kind of liked this idea of a traveling circus because detective games are always set in a kind of isolated setting.

Speaker 3 8:05

Detective stories, I guess, it's always a private island or a mansion that no one can go in and out, it's snowing, and we thought a circus would be an interesting take on it because it is open, there are a lot of people going in and out, but in a way because they travel with each other and they are kind of in their own little community In a way it's still a very close community with a very limited cast of suspects. So we thought it would be an interesting take on the detective trope.

Speaker 1 8:42

Yeah, I like that. I was like you both did a lot of research because, in full disclosure, I've been playing the game and I was like, wow, you both did some research on American circuses and stuff that I didn't even know myself. So kudos to both of you. That was amazing.

Speaker 3 9:03

Yeah, I enjoy reading of all circus stuff. It's just so interesting.

Speaker 1 9:07

Yeah, it is. It's a weird time. I live in Wisconsin, so actually Circus World Museum is not that far from me, so it's kind of an interesting thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which can go there.

Speaker 2 9:19

actually, I was talking about Chinese because, when.

Speaker 3 9:23

I went to college in Rhode Island and when I was doing the research, I realized one of the last shows that Ruin Circus ever performed was in Rhode Island. So I was like, oh, did you hear about this when you were there, because the timeline overlapped and Jenny was- like oh, I know this venue. It's just like really it's really close.

Speaker 2 9:46

It's like a 10, 5 minutes walk, it's like in a Dunkin' Donuts Center. So yeah, it's sponsored by, and I was like, oh, I know, and at that time I didn't like ever heard of, I wasn't interested in the circus at all, but I thought it was cool because it's still like last. Is that their last show? Yeah, their last ever show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy. I missed their last ever show.

Speaker 3 10:17

Yeah at that time you know who would know that this one happens?

Speaker 1 10:20

Yeah yeah, that's, and the Ringling Circus actually got it start in Wisconsin. Oh my God, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they do still perform. If you want to know, At the Circus World Museum there is performances that do happen.

Speaker 1 10:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't travel anymore, but they still perform here, and I'll just go off of that a little bit too. It must have been fun to draw the characters in of that time, Because all the characters, like the dress, was just so unique, right and over the top with the circus. That must have been really fun.

Speaker 2 10:56

Yeah, yeah, it was really fun. We had a little character discussion between Mia and Mary at the first time and then she just lined out all the characters, personalities, characteristics, and then I had this PowerPoint handed to me and then I was like, okay, she has also some references from movies or TV series, like who is home in, say, harry Potter or something. So I think that depends on each one's vibe. Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 11:35

So after that I just went out to look for references and I feel like the game of our art is not so realistic, especially when you see not only the costume but also the environment art like their rooms and their settings. It's actually not that fancy, but I drew them fancy and fancier than it actually was like, because I just like doing colorful and then like a cheerful kind of no art.

Speaker 3 12:10

Like two people sharing a train car.

Speaker 2 12:13

Yeah, yeah and also, like doing circus is really nice, because if it's set in like an office or it's set in a say I don't know, like in a jungle, I guess it won't be that fun to draw so many things or so many like patterns, so many colors, so many like props. So, yeah, it's a nice choice for me as well.

Speaker 3 12:40

Yeah, I feel like that's a part of the reason why we chose it is the visual potential. Yeah, yeah sure.

Speaker 1 12:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Can you tell us about the process about creating a detective game Like? What were some of the challenges of that and what did you like most about creating Death Trick Double? Sorry, Death Trick Double?

Speaker 3 13:01

Blimey. I know it's a Tom Tester, everyone is. I'm not your ex, but it makes sense.

Speaker 1 13:06

It makes sense, though I will say, like a lot of the titles I play, I'm like this title Totally makes sense, because once you start playing you like, oh yeah, that that totally makes sense. So I love the title.

Speaker 3 13:19

Oh, I have to say we took a little inspiration from one of my favorite games called Go away, ghost trick, phantom detective. Yeah, it's also a tonsill. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, because for this game we came up with the Chinese name first. So we knew we wanted a blind and we knew we wanted a trick in there. So I was like, but double blind trick, this doesn't sound good, I don't know why.

Speaker 3 13:43

Yeah, I looked at a couple other games I was like oh, you know, this kind of Two word, two word structure kind of sounds nice and it has like a nice little alliteration through it.

Speaker 3 13:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah name but make a detective game. Yeah, I think a part of the challenge of making a detective game, especially For us, because there's only one case in this entire game, so it's a little harder to Test, because we're so afraid of spoiling the players, because once they play that they they are never the same like. You cannot use them as skinny chicks again, you know.

Speaker 1 14:24

So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 14:25

So so for the majority of time when we're developing, developing this game, like for two years, you know we didn't want to share the plot with anyone and At one point you you're just wondering if you're getting television and like whether this case actually really made sense or not, and I was like so worried that maybe there's a Key mistake that the needle of us were seeing. But, like the moment, one test player Sees the entire game and they're gonna say, but what about? And I was just gonna go. Yeah, what do I do now?

Speaker 3 15:01

Yeah yeah, worried about it, um, but but you know we already have I'm glad to report, we already had some test players and they didn't, they didn't find spot a fatal mistake, so yeah, so so that's a part of it, I guess it's. It's different from puzzle games or, um, like farming games, where you can test as much as you want it, even very frequently as well, as we have to be very careful about it.

Speaker 1 15:32

Yeah, yeah, but there's there's multiple endings in this game, too right for each character for each character?

Speaker 3 15:38

Yeah, but the case only has one ending.

Speaker 1 15:41

Sure sure, yeah. Talk about then the, the characters. How was your approach of developing the characters and who are some of your favorite characters?

Speaker 3 15:52

Yeah, I, I know we're not supposed to pick favorites. It's kind of like they're all we do have favorites. Yeah, no, I'm not sure what get hurt because they're fictional characters.

Speaker 2 16:09

But who, like other characters, will get hurt, like, oh, the dab is not picking the. I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 16:17

I think, um, the process of writing the characters is kind of just like At the beginning. You know it's it's a power point that I gave to Jenny or we discussed together. You know how, how old should this character be? Which cultural background? Um, you know what kind of family background they have, so what kind of personality they have, and we do reference a few characters just to get the personality quickly across. Um, yeah, I I feel like I do have favorites, so so there are. So I think Yan is one of my favorites because obviously he shares a very similar cultural background with us. Um, you, know, Chinese and um.

Speaker 3 16:57

I went writing her. I think there are some stories in there that that's taken from our experiences or the experiences of Our family relatives growing up. Um. So so yeah, she's just very near and dear to me. Uh A-Ding, I think, is everyone's favorite um from our test playing results so far, everyone loves her Um and she's she's kind of, I think, a linchpin in the story because she's uh her she has more complicated relationships with everyone in the circus so, like all the plot plans kind of tied to her in a way.

Speaker 3 17:32

So I think, um, I think she's definitely one of um our favorites. Yeah, I have so many, it's it's very hard to.

Speaker 1 17:41

In my control.

Speaker 3 17:42

I have different favorites every day, but Echo is one of my favorite characters to write because he's um, yeah, he's, he's very, uh, he's very, he's, he's insulting, he has a very Mean in minor, but sometimes that's just so fun to write because you get to get out your mean side and they you know all your clips that are too rude to say to real people.

Speaker 2 18:08

He's actually pretty popular among the test players.

Speaker 3 18:11

Yeah, they either hate him or they love him.

Speaker 2 18:13

Yeah, yeah, I was really surprised. I was like, oh, it must be like really hard for people to like.

Speaker 1 18:20

I don't know.

Speaker 2 18:21

I just, every time I play the game, I try to avoid speaking to him.

Speaker 3 18:29

Yeah, I have a favorite. That's like you know how when you try to present a contradiction in the game, If you're wrong you know there will kind of kill. The character will kind of tell you you're wrong. So you know, some players, they, because they are, they turn contradiction hints on. They knew they have a contradiction but they couldn't quite figure out what it is. So they will try a lot times as the characters, but Um, but they just don't. Didn't try with echo and I was like why you know.

Speaker 1 19:05

Oh, that's awesome. Well, you know, you did well when you hit a nerve like that, saying I don't know if I want to talk to that person, right, yeah?

Speaker 3 19:13

yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good.

Speaker 2 19:16

Yeah, it's a very impressive character.

Speaker 3 19:19

Yeah, yeah, it's drawing pressure.

Speaker 1 19:26

Uh, I will say, like, what I love about the characters is just each one of them feels so unique and well written and and obviously well designed too.

Speaker 2 19:35

So that's what I really love. I mean, this all comes together, it's really well done.

Speaker 1 19:41

Yeah, yeah, one thing I will say about the characters which I thought was kind of interesting. So all the other characters you see like, you see like what they look like, but the main characters, the two main characters, are silhouettes. There's a couple of times where you get to see them, right when I'm not gonna actually say it because I would spoil it, but there are a couple of times where you can see when they look in a mirror, right and you can see, but for the most part there's silhouettes. Can I ask what inspired that Like? Why did you go that route with the characters, the main characters?

Speaker 3 20:16

Yeah, it's a little. I mean, it wasn't like an entirely conscious decision. I think A part of it is because they are supposed to be the players.

Speaker 3 20:27

And I feel like maybe some older visual novel games do this, that where they don't have a sprite for the player characters, I don't know, because I think they think it will be easier for you to put yourself in the place of that character. But that's not really our thought process. For us it's kind of just like. One thing for us is I think this is more a story about the circus characters and what's happening there. So we wanted the attention to be there. We wanted that the characters you're speaking to to be in center screen instead of the two of them having conversation. So I guess a part of it is the stylistic choice. Yeah, we think the detective or the magician are supposed to be more kind of witnesses to the story and obviously they're here to solve the case and move everything forward. But ultimately we say this is the lives of these circus members that this is happening to, and for them they're kind of just passing by in this complicated story.

Speaker 3 21:39

So yeah, to be honest, maybe at the beginning we just thought they weren't as important characters as everyone else in the circus but as I was writing them, I think I began to give them a little bit more personality, backstory, and I ended up liking the characters a lot more than the empty concept at the beginning.

Speaker 1 22:04

Yeah, yeah, the other thing we know you mentioned, but I'm going to talk more about it. I love the art in this game.

Speaker 2 22:13

Oh, thanks, so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 22:15

What were some of the artistic influences you had behind the game's visuals?

Creating a Detective Story Experience

Speaker 2 22:21

Actually I couldn't really name specific like, say, movies or like a comic or something. But I just looked up in a lot of circus references Like how do they firstly remember the rooms, like the rooms on the train, and then so I looked up on the train at that time and then like how long, like what shape it should be, and then it should be like a rectangular and long shape. So I was like playing accordingly, like how should I fit like a bat into that? And how should I like, if I am, say, the first train is room for Yan and Aiding, so for the acrobat and the file dancer? So I was imagining, if I'm living in the train, what should I? What do I need? Like I need a vanity desk because, like I am Aiding, like I love like doing the makeup and then like doing some little about like of my clothing and I need to have the wardrobe. But it's also like a share, it's a sharing place for me and Yan. So Yan, like she has a little, she has a little bed next to the wall and then like we have a sharing little table so we can share our dinner. So it's like more about like me trying to be the characters in the circus and then imagining like how I can, how I can put things into the environment and then make it into like a nice image, and also it's really fun.

Speaker 2 24:02

Like I was talking to Marie, like by the end of the game I was. So the procedure I do the art is like I do like a background for like two months and then I do like animation for like a three month and then I do like CG for two months, so it's like a. It's a big chalk of time. So by the end of the developing process I was making the CG and then I was. So I was getting a little upset because I was talking to Marie. I feel like I'm waving goodbye to them, because I just like I feel like I know them all. They are like my parasocial relationship, friend. So ending for them, I feel like, oh, I'm just like waving goodbye to them. It feels a little bit sad, and then I also made a social media post about it. Like making characters are nice, but when you realize that your characters are just virtual characters and then they really didn't exist, it makes me have an existential crisis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's one thing that's really like weird about creating those characters. Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:24

Yeah, that's, I love that. But I mean again, I just I love the art and I love how all that comes together the characters and the art and it just feels real, Like that's the one thing that I was just really that's the one thing I took away from the game is just how real the characters felt and how beautiful the art and the world that you built, Like it's really well done, it's a really fantastic job with that.

Speaker 2 25:50

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I was just like I am, not that I'm. I didn't not stick so close to the realistic, stick to this world, because the realistic circles world is like kind of maybe it's more shabby than that. That is true, it's a lot. So the 10 must not be like really fancy and they might not be like a really nice, clean living area, but I'm trying just to like build dreamy and fancy world so that people can kind of like relate to the. When the children like see a circus right when you were really small. I remember when I was really small and then there's like a Chinese circus going around and I was like I got a chance to see it and actually it was really shabby. And then I remember it was kind of shabby but at that time I was really fascinated about it. I didn't see anything like really like bad. I just feel like, wow, that's like a really magical world. So yeah, yeah, it's so. So I did did some fancy like art for for the circus, just to recreate that kind of feelings. Yeah.

Speaker 1 27:08

What do you hope players take away from their experience with the game?

Speaker 3 27:14

We hope for the apartment. The game I mean obviously it's the detective story, so we hope you know there are. I think the best result you can get from a detective story is like they say, I didn't expect that but I should have. So you know, it's kind of like it surprised me, but when now, when I know the answer, and then I look at back, everything all makes sense, I think that's the best result. It shouldn't be oh, that's surprising, because you know that came out of nowhere. But it shouldn't also be you know. Oh, I, you know, I saw that from a mile away.

Speaker 3 27:51

So hopefully, you know we hit somewhere in that sweet spot in the middle. And I think we talked so much about the characters because, truly, I mean, while this this is a detective story, we care a lot about these characters and we hope people, after playing the game, feel a little bit of that emotion of you know, feeling like they're your friends, and not that we want you to, you know, develop this kind of social relationship with them, but but just care about them a little bit on some level and if you and or relate to a bit of their story, even if it's only a piece of you know, a anecdote that they talk, they are talking about in the game. So, yeah, there is a lot of opportunities for chatting with these characters about, you know, whatever you want, basically because each piece of evidence in the game you can ask any character and they pretty much always have a unique answer for you and that's.

Speaker 3 28:56

yeah, that was a lot of work, but yeah, I was gonna say you know in that you feeling like you know this journey was your own, and perhaps no other player have the same exact experience as you and you feeling like you know you've discovered these little like details or secrets about these characters and their past, as well as you know solving the case, yeah.

Speaker 1 29:27

Yeah, nice. What about you, jenny? What do you hope that players are take away from the game?

Speaker 2 29:34

From from I think it's the same because me and Mary were talking about like. I was like, really, you get really conscious about what if people know like the tricks and everything and like the murderer, and they will get not interested in the game. And then we, after the conversation, and then we both agree that it's okay, like even if you know who's a real murderer as a beginning, like we are still really confident about you can enjoy the. Yeah, we are pretty confident, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 30:11

You can enjoy the story as well, even though you know the answer to the murder case yeah, it's not about the ending, it's about the journey. It's about the journey.

Speaker 2 30:21

Yeah, I feel like we have a lot of like the comics as a during the conversation with the characters and then you gradually know like, oh, how they know each other at the first time and then how being in the circus was like. So it was really those little nice moments. And also, like there are so many great dialogues I my personally favorite like. So I will like go back and then like every time I will go that route and then I will read those like nice dialogues every like. So I feel like if I'm a player, I will be like moved by those dialogues. That will be really nice.

Speaker 2 31:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I think that's still, the story, like the story of the characters, is really important for people to carry on.

Speaker 1 31:15

yeah, yeah, so this may not be a fair question, but I'm going to ask anyway what's next.

Speaker 3 31:26

Yeah, to be completely honest, we don't even know.

Speaker 3 31:30

I mean some people already asked us if we have a DLC plan. The answer is no. We feel like by the time you finish the game, you will understand that it's a complete story and it's wrapped in a way that we feel like it's best for the story and we didn't really plan to add more than that. Because, you know, I, like some games may have like one, two, three, four cases, so it's easier for them to say like, hey, here's the fifth case. But for us, you know, the whole game is one big intertwined web of, yeah, story, so it's hard to insert any more things into that.

Speaker 3 32:12

I won't say never, but, like, unless we have a really good idea of what to for a story and how to do it, we don't really plan to add more DLC or anything to the game. We don't want to keep, you know, making narrative focused games. But I guess we didn't decide on anything yet because we wanted to see how that's really what we'll do and, like, look at the feedback before we, you know, decide on a next step. We also want to take a little break, obviously, so I guess we'll come back and reevaluate it after the break.

Speaker 1 32:53

Yeah, yeah and celebrate. Celebrate the release of the game too. I'm sure that you want to take some time to do that as well.

Speaker 3 33:02

Yeah, we're proud of ourselves for having finished this thing. Like, no matter how it does, finishing it alone for us is kind of an achievement.

Speaker 1 33:12

Yeah, well, I again I gotta say like I think that the characterization and the story and how you built up this world is just so well done. You both did such a fantastic job of creating this world. I can't wait for players to play it, and thank you so much for taking time and meeting with me and talking about Death Trick, double Blind. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 33:37

Thank you. Thank you, and I really enjoyed this chat. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 33:43

Oh, good, good, Thank you. All right listeners. Thank you so much for listening, if you like what you hear. First of all, I'm going to put links to in the show notes so that way you can go out and buy the game. It is on the switch and steam, is that correct? Yeah?

Speaker 3 33:59

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 34:01

Thanks to both of those there so you can check that out. I think there's a demo too right On the switch and maybe yeah, there's a demo almost.

Speaker 3 34:09

I think it's still on the switch and I'm not sure what was the plan for the demo after the game's release for steam. So we will see.

Speaker 1 34:20

Okay, awesome. So I'll put links for that and let us know what you think of the show. Thanks everybody, have a good night, bye. Good night, bye, bye.