Composing Worlds: The Art and Journey of Video Game Music with Chase Bethea

When a Game Boy Camera sparks a lifetime of musical creation, you know you're in for an extraordinary story. Chase Bethea, the composer behind over 25 game soundtracks, joins us for a session that's as much an ode to video game music as a masterclass in its composition. From the tender memories of his grandmother's influence to the complexities of scoring for various genres, Chase's narrative is a testament to where dedication to one's craft can lead.

Embark on a journey with us as we unravel the threads of curiosity and creativity that weave through the tapestry of game music composition. Chase delves into the intimate process of building unique sonic identities for each new gaming world he encounters, from the retro charm of a Game Boy's sound chip to the sweeping orchestrations of modern titles. His insight into the emotional resonance of music and its power to transform a player's experience is nothing short of fascinating.

We cap off our conversation by exploring the intersection between the art, business, and passion of the entertainment industry and the crucial role of collaboration and respect within it. Chase's stories of acting, composing, and the joys and challenges of creative freedom underscore his multifaceted talent and deep understanding of the collaborative nature of game development. If you're eager to support Chase's work or are simply a fan of heartfelt, innovative game music, this discussion promises to resonate long after the last note has played.

Support Chase's Work:
https://chasebethea.bandcamp.com/

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

This episode of Gamer Heads is brought to you by Magic Mind , the healthy energy drink that will help you take your creativity to a new level . Hi , I'm Celia Schilling from Yacht Club Games . Hey , this is James from Mega Cat Studios .

Speaker 2 0:14

Hey , this is Matt aka Stormageddon from Reignite Screen Snark and the Fun and Games podcast . This is Stephanie from the Boss Rush podcast and the Boss Rush Network .

Speaker 1 0:23

Hey , this is Mark and Kion from Bonta Affold . Hey , this is Sebastian with the PronerdReportcom and the Single Player Experience Podcast . Hi , this is Chris Mike .

Speaker 2 0:34

And Garrett from Daylight Basement Studio . Hey , this is BaronJ67 from Level One Gaming . Hey , this is Todd Mitchell from Code Right Play .

Speaker 1 0:41

Salutations . This is Mike Carroll from Stroll Art .

Speaker 2 0:44

Hey , this is Jeff Moonen from Fun and Games Podcast . Hey , this is Patrick from the Backlog Odyssey .

Speaker 1 0:50

Hey , this is Rune from Runic Codes .

Speaker 2 0:52

Hi , this is Andrew from Spallata Birds . Hi everyone , jill Grote here from the Indie Informer . Hey , this is Brimstone and you're listening to Roger Reichardt on the Gamer Heads Podcast .

Speaker 1 1:09

And welcome to another episode of the Gamer Heads Podcast . My name is Roger Along with me . This week I have a very special guest . I am really excited to talk to this guest about their career in music . I have Chase Bathia . He is a multi-winning composer , uh , composes video game music and also a published author . You've worked on , like what , 25 plus games or so , is that correct ? Yeah , yes and uh . And now recently you had , uh , a couple features in recording magazines , right , like , oh my gosh , oh yeah , oh yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 1:45

That is awesome .

Speaker 1 1:46

That is so amazing . Chase , thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule and meeting with me . I said this pre-show , but I am really super excited to have you on the show . Thank you so much for joining me .

Speaker 2 2:00

Thank you for having me , Roger . It's an honor to be on the gamer heads podcast .

Speaker 1 2:11

It's really cool and I'm just happy to chat with you and talk about anything you know video game , music related and industries and all that cool stuff nice , yeah , uh . Well , before we go into , like , the process around writing music , I want to know more about you . So tell us about yourself . What got you into gaming ? I know that I've listened to podcasts we were on and you talked about that . You're a gamer first , so how did you get into gaming and how did you get into , you know , creating scores for video games ?

Speaker 2 2:32

yeah , so it started around . When I was like six years old , my cousin came up from well , it's a little bit of a between the two , so I'll vacillate between both stories . My cousin came up from Barbados . I was about six and he brought up a Game Boy and the Game Boy , the game that he had , was Donkey Kong and that was , you know , donkey Kong 94 . A great game , by the way . Yeah , it is . It really is a solid , solid , solid , solid game . And it's so solid that I pretty practically begged my grandmother to have my own game boy and buy that game . And it's so solid or unsolid that I headbutt the game boy , based on the airplane level of stage seven , and broke the screen because I was angry for my first game boy . But I got pretty far . But yes , but yeah , I got really bad and literally headbutt my game boy and put it in the trash . I remember it clear as day . Wow , so that's how I got into gaming I mean , you're really into gaming .

Speaker 1 3:43

You're really into gaming . I how I got into gaming . You're really into gaming . You're really into gaming .

Speaker 2 3:47

I got into it and yeah , so there's that . But my grandmother also . You're going to hear a lot of stories . My grandmother really is , I think , the foundation of my life . She encouraged the childhood that I thrived for , that I was looking for , mostly at the age of nourishment and that kind . So she gave me , you know , she bought me my first MC4 , with thanks that I still have to this day . I didn't break that .

Speaker 1 4:13

No headbutting there .

Speaker 2 4:15

No headbutting there and I played those are hard games on there , right , I did run up her phone bill for Los Angeles for for , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the , for the for the for the for the for the grade , oh my god .

Speaker 1 4:29

And so yeah , the film bill did get run up , but that's another story .

Speaker 2 4:32

I gotta get through that water temple . I never called for anything else , I maybe , maybe the spirit temple , but I think it was like mostly , you know it was fine , yeah . And then I learned strategizes , this , and so I didn't do that . We got from a jordan's mask and I borrowed that game . I didn't , I didn't even get purchased . So I also was really good with tech as a child , and so my grandmother was always asking me to hook up her cassette systems and receivers , and I was able to figure that out within first grade in that area of things .

Speaker 2 5:16

Yeah , just fixing it and doing it , not having any experience . This is an era away , obviously , eons before YouTube , you need to go to the library to find out something , or call somebody or see somebody do it . So for me to intuitively figure this thing out swapping stuff , figuring things in there was a system underneath the spare bedroom in my grandmother's apartment and this box had pictures , and the pictures was in a rectangle form and I saw one thing that particularly stood out to me that was there . It was football , there was football and there was American football and there was football .

Speaker 2 5:50

So I looked at this a bunch of times and I put it back underneath the bed and I took it out and I opened it up and it looked like to me what I thought would be like an old fax machine . I thought so I didn't think anything of it , but as I thought about it , as I kept digging underneath the bed over a period of time , like some days , months , I thought , well , this looks like it could be something else . I don't think fax machines had pictures like this . And so when I finally asked my grandmother , she said oh yeah , it's a fax machine , because it had a controller with dot , with number pads and everything else , yeah , and so I thought , no , I don't think so . So , with me knowing how to figure things out and plug things in , it was an intellivision . Oh , that's awesome , right . And so , yeah , not close to a fax , but I can see I can see it though , because they kind of look like fax machines .

Speaker 2 6:45

They really did right , yeah right , so this is 90 , whatever you know mid 90s , of course my grandmother would say and I don't know .

Speaker 1 6:53

I'm new to the world right , so I don't you can't see like .

Speaker 2 6:56

This was a fox machine from 1974 like this is not . No , that wasn't . That wasn't it . I knew technology existed , I just didn't know what things were . But because I was able to think okay , pictures and fax machine . I know what fax machines are these in this area ? This ain't it . I've never seen anything like that . What is this ? So my curiosity led me to plugging that in , and my first game that I played and get into gaming was dragon fire so technically my in my intro the gaming was between the game boy and intellivision .

Speaker 2 7:25

Wow , wow that's awesome .

Speaker 1 7:28

Um , and when did you start getting into composing ? Then , like , how did you find like that was something that you enjoy doing ?

Speaker 2 7:37

so another two-part . Uh , they

Early Introduction to Video Game Music

Speaker 2 7:40

like . What I usually say is , most people get introduced to an instrument . Around six years old I was , I was introduced to gaming and I was introduced to the game boy , and so the game boy camera came out in 97 . And during this one part on the game boy camera and use , like this little DJ , take a little face and you've got these little fun little faces you could do and you have these little hands and then if you do , if you press select , it opens up a screen , and probably a lot of people didn't even think about messing with the parameters .

Speaker 2 8:07

Yeah , but I did , and what I realized was that was a early tracker of what , how game music was made in the era of the 80s and the 90s , and it has . It was using , because it was on the game boys using the 2a 03 chip , which is the sound chip for the game boy of the dot matrix , and so , innatively , not only is it the first selfie , it's the earliest period of writing music for games and I was writing my own tunes on there and then have my little face dj and scratch this stuff , and I was making my own too . That's so cool so I didn't realize that's what I was doing . I was just having fun , yeah , and I was just doing it , but I , I think , like I said , being introduced having a lot , a nice library on the game boy I was , I was introduced to a lot of game of music . So final fantasy legend 2 to batman forever , and so tim follen and another composer was introduced to me at that age and genesis sake , genesis things to different japanese composers there and like hearing Yoko Shimomura's Street Fighter 2 type of score on there at that time and listening to Nobuo Uematsu and Kenji Ito from Final Fantasy Legend 2 , those type of things , and so with that sound palette that's happening .

Speaker 2 9:20

I was hearing these things , but my father bought me an alto saxophone . I was hearing these things , but my father bought me an alto saxophone and I was in fifth grade and I was also in choir and he would say you know , you need to be practicing that saxophone for at least an hour . He was right and I did , but I got bored and so I started transcribing no-transcript play it . But I was bored and so I started listening to some of the music when I would hear it and just write the letters . I knew what the letters were . But I knew how to read , but I didn't know what , I didn't know what sheet music was , so I couldn't do it the way that it was properly done . But I just wrote the letters and the letters end up being the tune , and then I'd be just able to play it and , like you'd learn that song , I was like , yeah , I just learned it by hearing .

Speaker 1 10:11

Oh my gosh .

Speaker 2 10:12

So my ear was very strong by that time in like fifth to sixth grade and I just continued . So that's my . I started writing music on the computer properly in terms of that , and my first piece of computer music that I wrote on hammerhead . And then it moved to fl studio 3 and I the first thing I said I presented somebody it was a school , was at a bus stop and the first thing they said to me was it sounds like it should be in a video game . Wow , that was the first thing they said . Wow . So that's kind of the , that's kind of the trajectory of how everything is lining up to where I am today yeah , that's amazing .

Curiosity and Creativity in Game Music

Speaker 1 10:53

It sounds like a lot of you're a very curious person and it sounds like curiosity has driven a lot of your creativity as well you're correct .

Speaker 2 11:03

You're nailing down exactly what I usually say to people and actually I think there's something that the online mentor I watch that says the key component to art is curiosity . And what I say and before I heard him say that recently , like a week ago I've always been saying , hey , you need to tap into your childhood to be able to create these things that we're working on and stuff , because the curiosity is usually what causes the experimentation , which is what leads to other things . I mean , just like I said , from discovering the Intellivision was curiosity , and it's all right . Yeah , yeah , that's awesome .

Speaker 1 11:37

So can you walk us through what your typical process is when you're like composing music for a game Like how , where do you begin with that ? How do you start something like that ?

Speaker 2 11:47

I start with curiosity .

Speaker 1 11:48

Yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 11:51

I it's , it's now I have to . There was this . This question is interesting because before in my earlier and earlier in my career , like I say , I've been doing this for like 13 years now , and so for , let's say , the first three years , it was about knowing what I could do in terms of how others have done it , but also doing what I thought felt right and just going with that . But not really . But I hadn't , I didn't have a portfolio as fast as I did then as I do now . And so now how I approach it is I really am .

Speaker 2 12:35

I have to remind myself to be experimental and to be curious , because before there was a process , I went to Moorpark College college is a community college and I transferred to cal state , northridge , and so there's these systems of this is how you do it , this is the theory , this was going on . But I , when I was in theory , it was always mostly like , why do I have to do that ? And then so my first other composition told me he's like you got to learn the rules to break them , and I couldn't wait to break the rules . I couldn't wait to say , okay , we'll learn them , let's learn them well , and then let's experiment , and so , through that is the process of I get a game design document , or I get a vertical slice or early build of the game and some art , whatever the case may be build of the game and some art , whatever the case may be and I try to .

Speaker 2 13:29

I start to remember my childhood in terms of putting the sound test on for the Game Boy and then realizing , okay , in my experience of what games I've played , what does it sound like to me and what's happening up here ? What are the instruments ? Because I'm coming from a chipset era , I'm coming from limitations , and so my curiosity comes with okay , we could do that or we could do this . What is the game telling me ? And become more like whispering , in terms of having this type of Dr Doolittle conversation with the play , with the build itself , and with that I build a sound palette , and that sound palette is going to be the sonic identity of what that game is going to be , because that's what I want it to be identified as . For someone , whether in an accessibility type of format or non-accessibility format , the option is , if you were out of the room and your other senses were still working , obviously for hearing , you would know it's this game were still working , obviously for hearing you would know it's this game .

Speaker 1 14:27

That's amazing because , like , I think about that , like with color palette , right , like people take certain colors and say , like everything will be kind of revolving around this color , but then they all kind of tie into each other and I think , from like a design perspective , like , uh , from a visual design perspective , that makes a lot of sense . You , you have the repetitiveness and keep pulling in kind of the same elements , but it sounds like you do the same thing with music as well . You have like this palette of sound , so that they all kind of tie into each other , um , but is different , but still is repetitive . In regards to the fact , not repetitive , but maybe that you can remember , you can , you can pick out things like oh , that that's , this is all tied together somehow . Is that is that kind of how , how you would think when you're , when you're building that ?

Speaker 2 15:08

a little bit , yeah , and now that I specialize more in , like interactive , dynamic and adaptive music , which is what's in the recording magazine article that talked about , like , I talk about the process of what this is like in terms of writing it in a vertical form and in a horizontal form , but because I understand games so well from being playing it very early in my life , all the way , you know , continuously through , I understand mechanics in a game design format . So it's beyond music , it's understanding the entire art form of where it's like , okay , yes , this is the story , the story will come , but what is ? How is the player traversing to get through the story and how are we keeping the engagement ? Because , again , like I come from learning from masterful designers , really like when those games are shipped and they used to go gold and you know it's a different era of gaming now . So I'm talking about this specific earlier time of , let's say , from the 70s up into the 2016 .

Speaker 2 16:06

Yeah , there was this masterful understanding of like these studios have it . They have these teams and intelligent folks that put this entire collaborative art form of level design , to sound , to storytelling , to programming and beyond , to make this experience to touch you in a lot of different emotional ways learning . You learn through these things , through that , uh , those playing those games . And therefore I try to think well , I wasn't at those studios and I'm not at those studios and I'm not with those folks , but I can take a little bit of these little things and apply them to what I want to do , because there's similarities . Everything is mostly it's not necessarily recycled , but it's inspired .

Speaker 1 16:42

Yeah , yeah I love that , um , do you , do you ? So one thing that I think is interesting , and and I and I think you might have mentioned this in one of the episodes I was listening to with you but do you have a sound for your own ? Like your own , like your own style , like your own ? You know , I guess footprint on on the music

Challenges of Video Game Music Composition

Speaker 1 17:05

. And then , and secondly , like , if you do have a sound , how do you force yourself to like kind of break that your own rules , if you will right your own , your own rules that you establish for yourself ?

Speaker 2 17:20

I have a sound based off of what other people tell me Okay , I don't know what my . I have techniques that I think determine what that sound is , but what I don't , what I never understand , and I think that's why it comes down to why it sounds like it should be in a video game , where people say is the techniques ? Even though I've listened to a lot of different styles of music , from metal to ambient piano , to orchestral , to reggae , calypso , hip-hop , to r&b , to blues , country , folk , every single style of music that exists , I know , world style it still comes down to like people understanding . They're like yeah , that's chase , yeah , I knew it was you .

Speaker 2 17:58

And what I don't understand is , every time I change the instrumentation , it doesn't matter , I could write chiptune and I could write orchestral hybrid and then I could write 70s funk , and they'll know . They'll know there's something I'm doing that they're able to attribute it to , except for small different projects . There's some things I know that I haven't released . I'm very curious to know if my name wasn't attached and you just and I just put it on where they know it was me , because I think if I give them the answer and I say , listen to this , they're like oh yeah , that was you , because I presented it to you but if you don't know who I am , but you know , you know how I am .

Speaker 2 18:36

But then if you heard it on a random playlist , would you be able to pick me ?

Speaker 1 18:39

up yeah .

Speaker 2 18:40

Yeah , and so that's . I'm very curious in that type of experiment to see how that kind of goes . But I know the techniques that I do . I , I like hemiolas , I like , I like what is it ? I like triplets and I try not . And I like neapolitan chords . So I try my best not to write neapolitan chords . I try my best to not write as many triplets , so that .

Speaker 2 19:07

But then there's almost like it's at , it's called the mitsuda lick and I'm not sure if you're familiar with what that is . I'm not , I'm not . You've played chrono trigger , I have , it's something like that . There's like a little mitsuda lick , I think that's in there . And there's it's in other games that he , he has done yeah , yeah , and people have now people have now found that in the other games are like , oh , it's the matsuda , oh , yeah , so he's created a melody and now he puts in other games to know where , like this is what you're doing . Yeah , this is him , yeah , uh , I don't do that . I , I know , like I said , you're never , really I'm never using the same chord progressions because it just depends on , like , the style of music and things that are going on . I never use the same instruments and I'm writing , in the most unprecedented time , signatures for games that typical composers would not do . So , yeah , I guess I stand out because that .

Speaker 1 20:09

Yeah , yeah , uh , because when and it's not in it's not to be to intentionally do it , it's just that's what my ear likes , yeah yeah , well , and in the fact , I mean to me , I just think that's amazing that you can listen to something and then you can transcribe it . That that is amazing and just uh . Yeah , thank you . Yeah , I wish I had a 10th of your talent to be able to do that , because I can't do that at all . So , uh , but yeah , that's amazing .

Speaker 2 20:38

Thank you . Yeah , it's a the old phrase adage . It says hard work beats talent . When talent doesn't work hard and trust me , I don't have perfect pitch , so I don't work very hard and we want to talk , to talk to a composer , another video game composer out there we were . He's got perfect pitch . Since see how , like , if you think transcribing it , yeah , there's levels . If you think transcribing , yeah , there's levels , there's levels .

Speaker 1 21:07

Uh well , I mean , let's talk about some of the challenges that you face , then , with composing music . So , like what , what are some of the challenges that you face when you're thinking about writing music for video games ?

Speaker 2 21:17

starting over all the time and it ties just to what we were talking about in terms of the process , and the curiosity is that I've got to rebuild the palette every time . This is a part of the process . Some people use templates and I should be doing those and I have been a little bit . I used once the template is built for the game because of the Sonic branding , then that's because it can't be not every when I did a talk about this at GDC , about what the game project I was on for Questlight Pocket by Sprite Ranch , the people when there there was this big sound of like always the orchestral template . And that's easy because orchestral music has been around since the 1700s . So , yeah , you know , you have , you know the woodwinds , you know at the top , and then the brass and then the percussion and then the strings , and so there's a whole family of organization . This is how it's always be done . You look in any score , that's how it's laid out . But when you come to questlight pocket , you have a fantasy adventure game .

Speaker 2 22:13

What is your , what is your palette ? I mean , yeah , it could be this typical orchestral thing , but I didn't take that approach . I have a hybrid type of thing , so it's going to be some weird type of there might be a banjo in there mixed with some pahu drums , mixed with a synth that you probably didn't . That's not common . It's not omnisphere uh no , no slide to omnisphere , but it's . It's something that I did and it's a patch that I created that I layered with something else .

Speaker 2 22:38

So the palette of that , the challenge is every game has that sonic branding and identity and on the level of dynamics , I've got to think now about the dynamics . I've got to think about the mechanics of how these tie to the dynamics , how the arrangement , the formation , the palette building . It's a lot of work and so that , and on top of which , the musicality , I am trying to tell a story without using words and and it has to be subconscious which focuses on 50 of the art form , which is an entire art form , of the entire collaboration of other people . It's not just about me , yeah . So the challenge comes from what is this supposed to be like , what is this going to sound like and how am I going to rebuild this again ? And so always starting it is the hardest , is the biggest challenge I've been facing recently , because I have a catalog of a discography of 13 something child soundtracks of work over 13 years and I don't want to write . I have to write like better than I wrote previously before .

Speaker 1 23:50

Yeah well , and I think that that also gives the identity to that game as well . Right , like so , it's that way you are internalizing it and you're thinking through yourself no , yes , it does sound like a lot of work . I'm not gonna lie . Like that sounds like a lot of work . It would be a lot easier for you , like no , this is my sound , you listen to these licks and this is what you're going to get , right . But when you were telling that , when you were talking about , like , starting over and building the template , or building the palette for that game , to me as a gamer , I'm like I appreciate that , because that means you are internalizing that game and you're thinking differently about that game , versus just like I'm just going to fall back on what I've done before and just give you and not saying that that's a bad thing . I'm not saying that's a bad thing , but I'm just saying like for me to hear you say that is is pretty impressive . So , yeah , as a gamer .

Speaker 2 24:42

I appreciate that Well . I'm a player first , so that's why I'm able to connect with the player . I'm thinking about the player from the beginning . I'm not thinking about being a composer . I'm thinking about what would I enjoy , what would I want to play . That I feel like may not be a majority of the players out there , that may not care , may not even catch it , but the percentage of people that do will enjoy and will appreciate . I want to talk to those folks . I want those folks to have it and then maybe they'll influence and type of pull those other players into , because that's usually how it would be right . It's like have you played this ? Did you catch this ? And that's the infectious type of feeling I want to inspire and put into the work that I'm doing .

Speaker 1 25:30

Yeah , that's awesome . Um , how do you collaborate with game developers , who talked about this a little bit but how do you collaborate with them and the designers to ensure that your music aligns with their vision ? And what ? What does that look like ?

Speaker 2 25:43

it's now come down . Earlier in my career I just thought it was . I used to see it from the lens of they're making this game . It looks awesome , they know what they're doing or they've made it this far for something like that , but what I've discerned is that being tenured in this , it comes down to a mindset of value and you talked about this just now whereas then you appreciate the part , the part of the amount of work it goes in so that you can have a good experience . And so if the , my first connection is the value of my , of what I've put in in terms of like , how much work it takes , the compensation and the vision of what that looks like , because people just I think a lot of people take music for granted , because a lot of music is , it's presented in an undervalued form . You know you can stream it . It costs whatever it costs per month it's not a lot , but if you had to work and save for , you know , just to listen to music , I think a lot of people would have a different perspective . And you know a lot

Art, Business, and Passion in Entertainment

Speaker 2 26:45

of .

Speaker 2 26:45

And it comes also come from the , the devaluation of like trying to people not really understanding like the business of of things in terms of value , where things are like okay , well , you made this game , but it's five dollars . Why did you do that ? Where games have never you know they didn't come from games being five dollars . You did this because of an ecosystem , of something that you're trying to undercut so you can get these things . And you're doing like a model , a business model of like , stack it deep and sell it cheap when there's there's that's art , is hard and unique and should be most mostly valued at a higher pillar . So so the mindset comes down to understanding . It's not usually just about the music . Anyone could pull the references together and I can do it . I know I can . I'm looking for where your mind is in terms of how much work do you put into this , how much time and money do you put into this ? Before I even come along , what have you done ? Are you trying to cut corners ? Or you know , for , for proper reasons , right , like , because people have to , there's budgets and costs .

Speaker 2 27:52

But , like , where is your mindset in terms of the intelligence of business , in terms of human value ? Because if you , if you're thinking how I'm thinking about the player first to the end , and you're not thinking about this is my game and I want to do this because it's something I want to play . But you , you need feedback . You don't realize that you're creating art yourself to get feedback from others . Because if you're just creating our thing , something for yourself , then yeah , there's no reason to really hire me , because you could technically take your time and do it all on your own and then you can just play it and you don't really care about what others think . But you do care .

Speaker 2 28:26

Something along , you came from something and saw this , saw something in your life that you want to be part of that , you want to contribute , and therefore there's an exchange that has to go on with that . And so I found , if I'm not connecting with the mindset first , there's no real reason to do any of the projects and a lot of projects . They may look great , but there's a lot of . There's some disconnect , and that's okay . That means you know we've saved each other time and energy . Exactly , exactly , exactly .

Speaker 1 28:58

Well , you know , when you were saying that , it reminds me a lot of like acting , and a lot of times people will say in that medium of like I . You know that character or that line that I'm delivering is only as good as what I'm getting back from the person that's feeding me those lines , and it's what you were just saying . There feels very much the same way around . I'm only going to be able to produce the music If your passion is in there too . If your passion is not in it and you're not giving me something to work with , I'm going to have a hard time crafting my art right To to meet what you're going to deliver to me .

Speaker 2 29:35

Yeah , exactly , and I relate my career to acting a lot , because there's people that I've grown up with and seen in my time of you know , from the nineties up until now and I'm thinking like , wow , they're still acting or they're still getting looks , or they're still getting booked and they didn't give up . That's the longevity I'm looking for , but with the value that comes with it , right , in terms of they're being compensated properly , they're being treated well , and you know , a lot of people just take a lot of stuff for granted and just don't don't do that . And so there's burnout and reasons . Burnouts because you're , they're not respecting the art and they people are having bad intentions and other types of agendas that just don't coincide . But the acting is definitely something to be revered for because that is so much work .

Speaker 2 30:26

My mom is an actress and so I've watched her go through the process and I was acting as a young child as well and I decided I'm not doing it . I decided at 16 , wait , I got to pay $500 because I cut my hair like this , and then it does like I . When I get booked , I'm like , oh no , we're not doing this . Yeah , it was already a rigmarole to go through the process of an audition and then maybe get it , maybe get the call back and have your heart on the strings for it , and I'm saying I'll just do audio . And then audio just came into . I like I'll just do music and it has its own things , but I don't gotta pay anybody if I want to change a chord progression .

Speaker 1 31:09

It's true , that is true , that is true , that is so true , oh , that's funny because we actually it's funny that you say that my daughter , who's my oldest daughter , who's 13 is , or 12 , she's about to be turned 13 . Uh , she is doing community theater and she just , uh , dyed her hair and I said , oh , I don't know if you should have done that , you know , without talking to director , um , but you know it's community theater , so it's not like a big deal , right , but but uh , you know , it's just little things like that . Yeah , you think through of , like , maybe you should have pulled back before you do something like that , right ?

Speaker 2 31:42

yeah . So you , you , you relate because you know the hair thing was like a big deal , especially for women in acting .

Speaker 2 31:47

They're so much more hard on them and this is yeah it's yes , I commend them and that's the art like form I'm talking about . Like they've , they also have to pull together something with other collaborators the directors , producers , cinematographers , the writers and the studio heads and all these other things that go on to it . And , yeah , you've got to , we've got to be convinced through a persona that we see beyond you , we see you as outside of this . Then when you do this interview , we see you . But if you've got to convince us that you were this other character , and that comes along with a lot , of , a lot of expectations , yeah , exactly .

The Versatility of Video Game Composition

Speaker 1 32:27

Do you have a favorite genre that you like to write music for ?

Speaker 2 32:29

No , Okay , I'm known as the Swiss Army Knife of video game composition . I worked hard for that title . It's not self-proclaimed . It did come from a different podcast when they recognized the styles of music that I've done and that's why I uploaded to my youtube channel my latest reel to showcase . Yes , this was why I became a video game composer partially , and one of the reasons why I should say but I recognize what a video game composer is and the one a composer that you can do all the styles , I there are people who are niche and they and they know their lanes for those things and those are respected and revered .

Speaker 2 33:05

But I , for me , as chase bethea , the video game composer , I enjoy writing and conflating styles and in many writing in many styles and conflating styles , because that's what games are you , you have a pirate theme with a puzzle and you put that together with something else . What does that sound like ? When you , when I wrote the music for you know a ground and they were on mars , I'm thinking , well , what does mars music sound like ? I don't know , but we'll just figure it out . That's cool , and so you get to . It , comes back from the experimentation and goes back to the curiosity . Yeah , so I can't have . Because I write for so many different style of games and game types and games being inspired and conflated with their own different genres of action , adventure or puzzle and cozy , I've got to be nimble within the same respect to create what that sounds like for them .

Speaker 1 34:01

Yeah , and do you think ? I mean , I would assume that that helps you grow as a composer as well ? Uh , not just to stick to one genre .

Speaker 2 34:10

It does and it's . It's what works for me . So , like I'm not trying to cajole other composers out there that they got to do what I got to do , I have my reasons , I have my inspirations , I have my pillars and my my vision of what that is and I'm happy with that and that's what is cool . So , yes , I do grow . Some there's sometimes it's exponential growth and sometimes there's a plateau . But a good friend of mine said the period of plateau is just as important as the period of growth that's interesting I like that .

Speaker 2 34:45

Big love to the nintendo yeah , that's awesome .

Speaker 1 34:48

I love my friend doc um , can you share one of your most memorable experiences with collaboration with a development team ? Uh , and if you don't want to share like the name of the team or the name of the game , that's fine , but can you talk , maybe , just about , like , what made that so memorable ?

Speaker 2 35:08

yeah , I can . I'm just I keep journals of every game development game , every game development project that I'm part of . So now I'm trying to visually see what , what the entry was for one of them , and so I'm just going to kind of just give me a second . Yeah , yeah , I think and I mean it should be memorable , but it's like on the spot to kind of go through the you've done 25 plus games .

Speaker 1 35:33

I do not expect it exactly . If you did one game of like whoa chase , come on , but you did 25 plus .

Speaker 2 35:41

So yeah , so unfortunately , the studio is no longer in existence and it's sad because it was , I think , my first . It was my biggest , my second-ish biggest break of a game , but as a contractor , my biggest break and it happened in 2020 , just before the precipice of the announcement of the pandemic , when things were going down and I got to be remote , but the team was so welcoming to the my ideas and supporting me . They didn't know me . I never even exchanged handshake DNAs with them , like so it was . It was really cool experience to I don't . It's just so uncanny because it wasn't . There was several of them and all of them were in an accord . In an accord that's usually , usually you have one person who's not , but it was like to have several people on this team and then I'm talking to everyone and there's a synergy . It was such a emboldened , emboldening experience from start to finish .

Speaker 2 37:02

I only had to write five tracks , but I also had to do it in the style of kind of mechanics , in a 2d form , and it was for this , this very low , very low . It was a cozy type of exploratory game and I played harmonica I was getting back into that instrument again and it was also like writing interactive , dynamic , adaptive music for it too , along with a software that I taught myself in 10 minutes . Oh my gosh , it seems to be actually pitch it and then actually having to ship it with the style and do it and do it all together . But I had about I had to fight right five tracks in two months and with all those type of remember , so I had to start over , build the palette , do it then and then change it and then do and then do it again , but tied to mechanics and make it work . And yeah , it was some , it was a lot of work , but it was so gratifying because I was just it . It reminded me that I was really just doing what I love at a high level and it was being received . I don't know how else this is . I was hitting it out of the park every time and it it validated that I knew what I was doing and even though I I threw something else in the mix that I didn't do before , like that new software , and taught it to myself .

Speaker 2 38:30

Like everybody was very accommodating , they worked with me , I got team involved . It was just nice and it was so good that I actually I wasn't concerned about the milestone anymore . I was ahead of the milestone I was able to write when I had a meeting . The most memorable part of it is like having this meeting with them and presenting what I was supposed to present , but then having saying , oh , by the way , I've already finished the other one , and here it is wow , wow and yeah they're , and them loving that too , and then like , oh , my god , it sounds like joe heiseishi and this , this is great , and this is like them feeling more inspired to work on it , like , and me not becoming in right , I'm a newcomer to their team for that as a contractor but never even having this inhuman experience .

Speaker 2 39:21

It's very , it's very enlightening and heartwarming and it was like like one of the one of those that I sought out after for to work with , like studio and stuff , and I love , love the longterm folks that I'm with now fancy fish , because there's some memorable experiences with them too . But this one specifically , I was thinking in terms of it being like starting over and with a whole set of people who don't know me . It was recommended and I got this and I learned this . It's just it gets as a stack of different experiences amalgamated into one . That's awesome .

Speaker 1 39:54

And what I'd love about that story is I think that it shows that when you focus on , like , the human aspect and like lifting each other up and working together and the synergy that's built works way better than somebody saying , uh , you have this deadline , you better make this deadline what's you know and put the pressure on them Right , like and like . I've worked with a lot of people that are like well , if I just push you harder and make you work , you know , longer hours , you'll get the work done . And it's like or you know , again , focusing on the personal side of things , like making them feel welcome , making them feel part of the team , and people then want to do you know , want to actually produce good work , right .

Speaker 2 40:36

So Right , I've worked in retail for 10 years and when I feel like a lot of folks who works in games , they miss a lot of the the service part of things Like you don't have to work in food for the service in terms of I've never worked in food , but to work in food for the service in terms of I've never worked in food , but I did was . I worked in different retail stores where that is a service you do . How may I help you ? What ? How can I resolve the solution ? What are we doing ? What are we working with today , etc . What's going on ?

Speaker 2 41:01

You understand personality types and so , yes , there's a personality type that and you see this in school , mostly like high school of oh , I do better under pressure and I get it done . I don't know how those people function , but I know it's not healthy on the on a bigger level , right at the core , like at the human core of it , but that's where their mind understand works . So I think what you're saying is most like if we actually had this ubiquitous type of . This is art . You don't want to rush you . It shouldn't be rushed . Let your creativity flow . Here's this time we'd like to kind of get done . Yeah , and let's make it happen .

Speaker 2 41:32

Unfortunately , what I've learned too in that aspect is that if they have investments or investors and PR teams to kind of get things done , they can't work without a schedule of some sort either . And then also like , if we don't put something on a milestone or a deadline or a deadline I hate saying the word deadline , but I was told that you know that you should be saying , like delineating what those terms are you will get it done eventually , because without that then you're just working on something forever . So there's a balance , is what I guess my point is . Yeah .

Speaker 1 42:07

Yeah Well , can you talk about what projects you're currently working

Video Game Soundtrack Composing Update

Speaker 1 42:12

on right now ? Is that something you can say ? Can sure , let me get this list going . It's gonna be a list .

Speaker 2 42:15

Be prepared , it's gonna be a list or you can just order the magazine .

Speaker 2 42:27

You should have said order the magazine and then you can see all the things that I'm working on yeah , no , actually there's nothing in there , but you can order the magazine yeah , order the magazine , for sure , yeah , but yeah , that just talks about the process , my favorite way , the favorite digital audio workstation or what I create music in , and also my process of how I write interactive , dynamic and adaptive music . So the projects I am working on . Are I go this from memory ? I am still . I finished the soundtrack for Stardanger School for Witches , so I've been sending out sneak listens to those that are interested in hearing it , and that soundtrack will be released this year for sure . It's an early access now .

Speaker 2 43:08

It's a visual novel RPG where you're playing in the sense of it's taking some inspiration from another magical type of story that's very , very popular I'm just going to say Harry Potter .

Speaker 2 43:21

I'm not ashamed to say that I didn't get that , but the score is a folk hybrid , folk hybrid , and so if you envisioned a you know , witches that are good and fey , that are in a magical fantasy land and playing these type of instruments in this world outside and with some type of other music genre influences amalgamated , but obviously with fantasy , that's what that score is about and that's what the game is mostly about building relationships and becoming good at spells and figuring out the , the feud that's going on within the world .

Speaker 2 43:57

So that's starting to school for witches . The other game that I'm scoring is a ground zero , which is a spinoff to a ground and people don't know the ground is the game that's very popular still . People related to terraria and minecraft , but with a story , and so a ground zero is a spinoff , and the ground was 2d and this is 3d , so now people are saying it's like minecraft and factorio , which is cool , I guess , if you like those type of games survival , crafting , with the story and so I was finishing the soundtrack for that and now I've got to push it out because now I've got more tracks to write that's good , that's good .

Speaker 2 44:30

Yeah , the game has expanded and people are really taking a liking to that , so ground zero is going to be also still working on that . Can I on ? Can I ask a quick ?

Speaker 1 44:39

question about that , do you ? Sorry , I interrupted you and I'm so sorry , but I I put a quick question about this do you , did you have to rebuild the palettes then for that ? I'm curious about that because the fact that you had the game before , did you rebuild the palettes or did you ? Or did you kind of take songs from the previous one ?

Speaker 2 44:58

great question . Thank you , yes , to both . I did rebuild it and I did take songs back from it because it was directed through the references . They referenced me , okay , so I they said it should be this and this is the style it should be for this specific track , but it should also be related to these tracks that you wrote for this part in a ground , and so I got that started . It was first it was thinking , oh man , well , how do I do that ? And then I thought , oh well , I'll just sample myself interesting and I'll . Just because I kind of was , I was kind of what is this word ? I was , I was using this word .

Speaker 2 45:41

I was uh , thinking , conditioned , it was always from this , from doing the . If you , if you go on , if you look on you and you look online as you youtube , and there's a brown trailer , the first trailer I wrote was the trailer , but when there was another , there's another trailer and I had to remix that trailer music to match a different trailer music . So I've already been conditioned to kind of do this and I had to just remember oh , I'm just going to use things from here and this is a very this is a composer technique . Usually I would write it into something other , another way , but I really just took clips of it and just put , inserted that and then just remixed it and put it inside a different part and then did other things . So I'm really just using the composer techniques in a modern form . That's cool and it really saves me , because then I don't have to reinvent and rethink the entire palette . But the palette is different . Yeah , because it is a different style and it's so . It doesn't sound as chiptune-ish and that , but there are elements to it and that's because I want the player to be reminded about where it came from , so they're familiar with themes and sound palettes . Now too , which is something I don't hear a lot of composers get the opportunity to do , unless because there were different skews . So PSP wouldn't sound like the playstation 3 palette because the limitations that it could be or a better example would be the sega genesis port wouldn't sound like the super nintendo port because they're chipset differentiation . Yeah , yeah . So , yes , that's what I did do and I'm also doing design mechanics with that . I'm very excited for this , if I may share . Yeah , yeah , absolutely as well .

Speaker 2 47:11

There's some mechanics in terms of star dander stuff too , that are tied to it like the menu screen . It will never sound the same for each player . Oh , but I think our ground zero , yes . So for a ground zero there's a different . Obviously it doesn't sound like star dander is different scents and different moods , but there's every level that you're on .

Speaker 2 47:27

Whether you're in the beginning level , the music is tied to the items . I have to probably tell this now because I don't think when people stream it there's like this dmca thing going on and it sucks because again I put that effort into it and now they won't play the music . So I've got it . This is the only way I can share it . Yeah , so the music is tied to the items . That .

Speaker 2 47:48

So every time the item changes I did this talk at gdc , I think , last year too like tool sets , every time the item , you change the item to do something in the game , the music's going to change seamlessly , whoa , throughout where you're at .

Speaker 2 48:01

So you're just thinking it's level music , but it's actually interactive when it does music for you . Not only that , that's only for the first level . When you go to the second level , when you're in front of the , the things that are in that level , the music's going to change dynamically . It's no longer tied to the items . It's now tied to whatever you're playing within that level . Oh my god . So if you interact with something , then that music's going to react to you oh my god , in terms of whatever you're doing . Then level three it's themed about what the level is and therefore , whatever your goals are within that level , the theme is going to change based off of what you're doing and have a tribulation of , or an attribution connection to what was also in level two . So the system is now still connected . And then level four , it'll do something different . And level five I'm figuring that out and then whatever other things are going to happen , I'll come up with those ideas to be continued . Wow , I love that .

Speaker 1 48:56

I got to see a little bit of your process , of how you think through , like how build that music . That was fantastic , that's awesome .

Speaker 2 49:03

I love it . Thank you , thank you , sorry , so continuing on . So Ground Zero , that's an early access now as well . So so , ground Zero , that's an early access now as well , so you can experience some of those type of systems and enjoy . And the purpose of that , I should say also , is that I did it so that you're not bored you shouldn't ever turn the music off , and so hopefully you're feeling you're going to be down there building a lot of stuff for a long time and so I don't want you to be bored Again , thinking about the player in terms of the extension of those times and hours that you're going to be spending . Yeah , so that's a ground zero .

Speaker 2 49:40

Then I'm working on this game called Windrush Tales , and Windrush Tales is based off the movement of Windrush , where people in the Caribbean moved to the UK to rebuild it after World War II , and it's the first historical game of its kind , and I'm very honored to be working with Chela Ramanan and Corey Brotherson and Claire Morwood for Under Threefold Presents to create this type of storytelling that has not been told in games about this movement and the experiences that the Caribbean folks had undergone in the UK , and it's really great . They've been pulling actual , real stories from people of the time and integrating them in our own way to kind of share what these are . And so I'm writing the score for that game . Cool , and that's been odd marketing for that one . But there's a trailer , but then there's a demo and I don't know where those things are . But Windrush Tales is the game . So if you're interested , it's in the british library . So that's a huge , really huge thing . Yes , it is , it's in the british library , oh my god . So yeah , if you're in the uk then you can check that out . And then I'm also scoring the game sunken stones , which is my task .

Speaker 2 50:47

He talked about challenges was to not make it sound like hans zimmer and d minor and pirates of the caribbean , but really make it pirates of the caribbean , because the developer is a big love to spy rich . He's a jamaican developer , okay , and , like I said , my heritage is from barbados . So he said , like we want it to be , I need it to be like an anime , but we just like bring back what the sound of Caribbean would be for the pirates of the air . I'm thinking like , whoa , that doesn't exist . So I have to now pioneer that , and so I've been writing a score for that and I hired my mom to sing on that score as well . She's someone's star dander , but we do a duo and so that's like the theme of that and I'll be releasing that soundtrack onto pre-order soon , hopefully by summer , and getting those things together . I'm putting that there .

Speaker 2 51:38

And then also another studio development is Sprite Wrench . It's working on W Detective Tasha , w Detective Tasha Sunken Stones and I think Wishlist and W Detective Tasha could do as well and that's more like a detective game and , like you know , it seems educational , it looks educational , but it's . It's really well done . The animation is phenomenal and glenn is spearheading that as a studio lead and I'm scoring that as well .

Speaker 2 52:06

And then there's another project I'm actually I'm signing today , oh my god , yeah , it's a proto star and I'm . This is like a mega man style , like looking game , cool that you can . You can do on reverse around and I've got some really cool design mechanics for that as well , because I'm excited and so , yeah , I'll stop there . There's like three others , but they're just , they're like in limbo . I'm not really like on them yet . Like one of them I've done and sort of like there , but I know I'm working on them . But those are the ones , like I'm focusing on , the ones that I'd like , or , if they're okay , they're announced . We got sunken stones , w detect tasha , a ground zero , star dander and windrush tales , and so , yeah , I feel like I'm missing one , but I'm sure I'm good you were so busy .

Speaker 1 52:50

I wow , I know I really appreciate the time that you took on . How did you find time to meet with me ? Uh , that is wow , uh . I have so many more questions , but I want to be , uh , respectful of your time . Um , before we go , how can people find you and follow you on social media , and uh . And then I know that you have a YouTube channel too . Can you plug that as well ?

Speaker 2 53:17

Yeah , happy to plug it all for you . So you can find me on Twitter XChase C-H-A-S-E B , as in boy E , as in Eric T , as in Tom H , as in Harry E , as in Eric A , as in Apple Beth Thea , just like that , chasebethea on Twitter X . That's also my YouTube channel , so youtubecom slash Chase Bethia . And if you're a game developer , you're liking what you hear in terms of like the mindsets and mechanics and things that I bring to the table , then you can contact me on LinkedIn , and that is the same Chase Bethia . There Also , you can talk about my work on Bandcamp .

Speaker 2 53:48

I highly suggest that , for it's the best way to support me . It's how I'm able to kind of do more of these things and it shows the , it shows the labor of love that , you see , is , you know , listening to music , game , video game , music of my style , my kind of very eclectic video game composers , so I don't like sound like anyone else . So if you're interested in opening your ears and being optimistic , check out the Bandcamp . But I yes , I'm also on all the major streaming platforms that don't pay as much as they should . So that's why I pushed Bandcamp first and then , yes , you can , those are your . That's my gift to you is to listen to those . If you're not paying for streaming platforms for free , nice .

Gratitude for Inspiring Conversation

Speaker 1 54:24

Chase , thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule . Like , I really enjoyed this conversation and , yeah , I appreciate everything you do and I knew going enjoyed this conversation and yeah , I appreciate everything you do and , uh , I knew , going into this conversation , I was going to have , I'm going to , I'm going to have somebody that can is going to blow me out of the water in regards to , like , their intelligence and how they think about things , and I , again , I'm in awe of everything you do . So , thank you so much .

Speaker 2 54:51

Thank you , Roger . I appreciate that . I mean the words of the support and inspiration . It means a lot . It really does .

Speaker 1 54:56

Thank you so much for the opportunity you're welcome listeners , make sure that I'll put the links and I'll put your band camp link actually in the show notes as well , so that way you can go and support chase as well and listen to the music and support the games he's working on as well . Uh and again , thank you so much for everything you do , chase you're welcome .

Speaker 2 55:17

Thank you , I'll talk to you soon . We'll be a part two . Part two , yes , exactly .