The Essence of Indie Games Explored - What Makes an Indie Game Indie?

Welcome to another episode of The Gamerheads Podcast! Have you ever wondered what makes an indie game an indie game?  We wade through that conundrum, scrutinizing titles like Yars Rising and The Rogue Prince of Persia that straddle the indie-Triple-A divide with our guest, Jill Grodt, The Indie Informer!

We also discuss upcoming indie titles, as we anticipate indie treasures like Little Kitty, Big City, and the enigmatic Lorelai and the Laser Eyes. We also spotlight some of our top indie games that have been released so far this year, including Turnip Boy Robs a Bank and Snufkin: Melody of Moominvalley.

We also talk about the games we are playing, including the gripping narrative of Life Eater and Harold Halibut.

So sit back and enjoy this indie jammed-pack episode!

Follow Jill on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Finruin
Follow The Indie Council on Twitter: https://twitter.com/IndieCouncil_

Check out our sponsor!

Discover how Magic Mind, our favorite energy drink, can fuel your energy levels. You can get it at magicmind.com/gamerheadss and use promo code Gamerheadss.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

This episode of Gamer Heads is brought to you by Magic Mind, the healthy energy drink that will help you take your creativity to a new level. Hi, I'm Celia Schilling from Yacht Club Games.

Speaker 2 0:11

Hey, this is James from Mega Cat Studios. Hey, this is Matt aka Stormageddon from Reignite Screen Snark and the Fun and Games podcast.

Speaker 3 0:19

This is Stephanie from the Boss Rush podcast and the Boss Rush Network.

Speaker 1 0:23

Hey, this is Mark and Kion from Bonta Affold. Hey, this is Sebastian with the PronerdReportcom and the Single Player Experience Podcast.

Speaker 3 0:32

Hi, this is Chris Mike.

Speaker 1 0:34

And Garrett from Daylight Basement Studio. Hey, this is BaronJ67 from Level One Gaming. Hey, this is Todd Mitchell from Code Right Play Salutations. This is Mike Carroll from Stroll Art. Hey, this is Jeff Moonen from Fun and Games Podcast. Hey, this is Patrick from the Backlog Odyssey.

Speaker 2 0:50

Hey, this is Rune from Runic Codes.

Speaker 3 0:52

Hi, this is Andrew from Spallata Birds. Hi everyone, jill Grote here from the Indie Informer.

Speaker 2 0:58

Hey, this is Brimstone and you're listening to Roger Reichardt on the Gamer Heads Podcast and you're listening to Roger Reichardt on the Gamer Heads Podcast.

Speaker 1 1:09

And welcome to another episode of the Gamer Heads Podcast. My name is Roger. Along with me are my good friends and co-hosts. I have the CEO and President of Gamer Heads, we have Phil. We're podcasting, we are podcasting. Mike is still in jail. Poor Mike, or back in jail, or back in jail.

Speaker 2 1:28

It's tough to say yeah, something about a parole violation or hearing or something like that, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:33

Yeah, he was trying to get some, he's sending me carrier pigeons, courier pigeons.

Speaker 2 1:37

And I don't know how to respond to him because I hand the pigeon a note.

Speaker 1 1:46

I'm like oh, oh, give this back to mike, and the pigeon just sits there and looks at me. I don't think I'm supposed to give it a treat first. I'm not sure how these pigeons work. I think you're supposed to send an owl. Damn it. Yeah wrong bird, yeah, wrong bird, uh, but we do have a returning. I don't even want to call you a guest anymore because, like you're like the fourth seat on the podcast yeah, intern, she's sort of like um, like a shadow that creeps in.

Speaker 1 2:06

Yeah, that's right that's right, just kind of like how did she get here? We have jill groat from the indian farmer. Hello everyone. You may have noticed we don't have music anymore I did notice that, yeah a little sad.

Speaker 2 2:18

Yeah, I was playing it in my own head. Oh that, I do it every week.

Speaker 1 2:23

We don't have the marketing budget to do that anymore.

Speaker 3 2:30

We keep bailing Mike out of jail.

Speaker 1 2:32

That's right. That's right Exactly. If Mike wasn't in jail, we'd have licensed music and everything we would no. We'd have fireworks if it wasn't for Mike in jail.

Speaker 2 2:41

Mike's damn life of crime.

Speaker 1 2:43

Yeah, Every time we make strides we earn a dollar here or there on the podcast. Mike ends up in jail and I don't know what to do about that. We end up losing more money than we make on the podcast. But, Jill, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 3 2:59

Thank you for having me on for the 287th time.

Speaker 2 3:04

This year.

Speaker 3 3:05

Yes, yes, in the past four minutes that's true.

Speaker 1 3:09

That's true. Uh, I just want to do a quick intro and then we'll talk to you, jill, but thank you to our listeners and to our patrons. Who is jill? Happens to be one of our patrons you're welcome.

Speaker 3 3:26

There's a weird circle happening here.

Speaker 1 3:28

I don't understand what's happening she pays her way to get onto the show.

Speaker 3 3:36

Uh, thank you, jill it's totally valid, it works there you go y'all want to get on the show, pay five dollars that's right.

Speaker 1 3:43

That's right. Yeah, that's right. Thank you, matt, and thank you, sarah as well for uh supporting the show, and you can join as well for as low as three dollars if you'd like. What? Yeah, the five dollars gets you on the show, but three dollars will get your mention on the show uh, this is even more corrupt than my entire presidency has been so far roger, I don't even know what the hell is going on under me anymore. This is yeah, I don't either.

Speaker 3 4:09

I'm glad that I could come on and just corrupt everything.

Speaker 1 4:16

But yes, join the GamerHeads Nation by signing up at our Patreon at patreoncom. Slash GamerHeadsPodcast, so Jill hi, hi. Congratulations, by the way, our patreon at patreoncom slash gamer heads podcast uh, so jill hi hi uh. Congratulations, by the way for, for, for what?

Speaker 3 4:31

for your anniversary 10, 10 years oh yeah, so it's funny, years married, it was funny because you were.

Speaker 1 4:38

I was said you said I'm back from ireland and I said, oh, that's crazy, you were in ireland. And then I listened to the podcast and everything you told me in chat was like in the podcast. And then I was like, oh, I'm so embarrassed because now she knows I didn't listen to that episode yet. And she's like because you also.

Speaker 3 4:54

I literally I feel weird whenever. I'm glad you didn't because, like then, I could tell you oh, that's, and I wouldn't be like oh, I'm retelling a story, that's true.

Speaker 1 5:04

That's true, because you said I flew a hawk, I did. What does that mean? What?

Speaker 3 5:09

does that mean?

Speaker 1 5:09

Like a falconer.

Speaker 3 5:11

Yes, you're the first person to make that assumption. Yeah, exactly. Everyone else that I have told is like is that some kind of plane? Is that some kind of helicopter? Is that some sort of technology?

Speaker 2 5:24

I didn't think you were flying a military Blackhawk. I feel as though you're a very skilled individual, but I think that might be a little bit above your pay grade. You never know. You don't know what I could get into.

Speaker 3 5:35

You have no idea.

Speaker 1 5:36

It's also Ireland. Maybe they let anybody fly Blackhawk choppers when you get to out of the Dublin airport.

Speaker 3 5:42

They just give you a helicopter.

Speaker 2 5:46

You go to get your rental chopper.

Speaker 1 5:48

Did you get the car or the chopper?

Speaker 3 5:50

You can't drive. They're on the wrong side of the road. They want you to be safe. That's true.

Speaker 2 5:58

It makes perfect sense. It's way more safe up there.

Speaker 3 6:01

I did go to Ireland for my 10th anniversary. We did fly hawks, which was a really cool experience. We were walking through the the forest and we would like fly, like, go, fly, and they would come back to us and grab it on the, on the glove, and it was a really, really cool experience that it sounds really bring gifts.

Speaker 1 6:21

Yeah did, they was going to ask that too.

Speaker 3 6:24

I would have to feed them pieces of dead rodent when they came back as, like a good you came so. I tried not to look too closely at what I was rewarding them with so you're saying feeding a hawk is a lot like being on this podcast.

Speaker 2 6:42

You just gotta give it a little something something and it'll show up again.

Speaker 3 6:47

Just have to bring like mouse feet or something.

Speaker 2 6:49

That's right. That's right, got it, got it, all right. I'll keep that in mind.

Speaker 1 6:53

Do the streets still have no names in Ireland? Because when I was there I understood the lyrics I almost left this podcast. I understood the lyrics. Because, no, the lyrics? I just almost left this podcast. I understood the lyrics. No, seriously, the streets have no names. The only way you know how to get around is being like okay, I need to get to this city and this city is on the way to that city. I don't know what the road name is, but I know how to get there.

Speaker 3 7:16

Thankfully I didn't have to go intercity. I took the train. So, I was just like there's really only one way this is going. I hope I'm on the right one.

Speaker 2 7:26

You should try being a mailman there.

Speaker 3 7:29

I would absolutely love that experience.

Speaker 2 7:33

The red house with three bricks on the top side is the one that you're dropping this letter off.

Speaker 1 7:37

I kind of think that's actually how it might be. At least it was like that when I was there 20 years ago. So I don't know, maybe things have changed.

Speaker 3 7:45

All the streets got named while you were gone.

Speaker 2 7:48

They're all named Reichert Avenue.

Speaker 1 7:50

That's true, no yeah you're Dan Reichert. Not Dan Roger oh okay, reicherts around the world, reicherts yeah, no, there is a Reichert road in my hometown, so I'll just have you know that.

Speaker 3 8:09

Okay, well, now I need to show up in Boycott, I'll join you in the protest, but you had a good time in Ireland. Yeah, absolutely fantastic, that's good, well, congratulations. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 8:24

Yeah, absolutely fantastic. That's good. Well, congratulations, thank you so much. Yeah, uh, icebreaker for this week. Uh, since, since, jill, since you are the expert in indies, uh, I thought they tell me that's yeah, well, I mean, you are the indian former like yep, that is, that's correct yeah that is correct.

Speaker 1 8:41

uh, so I thought the icebreaker could be this question, and if it's too much of a deep thinker for us we can bypass it. But I think that Jill will probably have a good answer. I don't know if Phil and I will have a good answer.

Speaker 2 8:55

My answer is Braid?

Speaker 1 8:57

No, that is not your answer. The question is what makes an indie game an indie game? And your answer is Braid. Braid is an indie game. I is what makes an indie game.

Speaker 2 9:05

An indie game and your answer is Braid.

Speaker 1 9:06

Braid is an indie game. I know it's an indie game. Is that what makes it an indie game?

Speaker 3 9:12

An indie game is Braid. It's not the worst answer I've ever heard to that question. Wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 1 9:17

What is the worst answer you've ever heard to that question?

Speaker 2 9:19

Was the question in the chat already? Yes, oh, son of a bitch?

Speaker 1 9:25

I question in the chat already. Yes, I, yeah, I was son of a bitch. I said that. I said that earlier. I sent it.

Defining Indie Games

Speaker 3 9:27

Actually, right after I sent it to jill, I sent it to you saying here's the list of the things we're gonna be talking about today remember that time I told you that I don't read no, yeah, that's right um yeah, the worst answer to that question I've ever heard is is really any sort of variation of like oh, but it's good and therefore it can't be indie oh there are people out there who believe that indie is a kind of byword for like uh yeah, essentially just like a bad, lesser, inferior experience.

Speaker 3 10:00

There are literally people like. There are people who have not like, there are people who believe that outright and who believe that and and will say that. There are people who haven't like, confronted their biases and sort of believe that and and don't think too much about it. Um, I've had a conversation with several people where, like, even people whom I like, who are in this industry, where it's where I um, I sort of have to explain indie is not, um, like you can't do triple a, so let's just do indie like it is. It's not like if you were a good indie, you're suddenly a triple a. Like that's not how that works. Like you do choose to be an indie game and an indie developer for very specific reasons, to do very specific things.

Speaker 3 10:49

Um, I'm sorry and I believe yeah, I know it's like it is a difficult thing to come across. When you, when you find those beliefs and you have to confront them, you have to be like as nice as possible, because it's like I don't know what this person's relationship with games has been and where they're coming from. Um, so I want to, like, bring everybody into the indie fold as much as possible and you don't want to be judgmental about that kind of thing. But there are definitely some people who are just out there to be like trolls and yeah, that's one thing. But, um, as far as what an indie game actually is, I believe, roger, that this question perhaps stems from kind of uh, the indie council had a very large debate on this subject they did um, because of the, the triple I initiative showcase happened on the 10th.

Speaker 3 11:45

Lovely showcase, fantastic. It ended with the rogue Prince of Persia, which looks fantastic. It's being developed by Evil Empire, which no one argues is not. They are an indie developer, but it is being published by. Who was it?

Speaker 2 12:05

Ubisoft.

Speaker 3 12:08

Yeah, so they're being published by Ubisoft. So the question arose of whether or not this game is an indie, and which of course broke into a bigger question of what is actually an indie. So for me, I think everybody sort of agrees on some basic criteria. There are some criteria that involves how one gets money, how one funds the experience, what team is involved and sort of the size of that team, how much creative freedom someone has or not. These are usually parts of this conversation and I think most people agree that those all should be in the conversation. But I think most people also don't have any sort of like one person to the next. Person will be like okay, an indie team has to be less than 50 people or less than 10 people or less than five people.

Speaker 3 13:13

Um, some people believe that the money is the big issue, where if you crowdfund your game, then you're good. If you're going and selling cookies to get your game funded like, that's another thing game scout cookies.

Speaker 2 13:30

I love game scout cookies can we start that? Let's, let's go and and how many game scout cookies do I have to sell to make arkham asylum better?

Speaker 3 13:39

or, uh, suicide squad, I mean oh, I don't know if there are enough cookies in the world, I'm afraid, bill, um, yeah. So for me personally, I am usually where people disagree with me is in is in the money situation, because I am very happy for an indie team to make it a, a game that is their vision, and then go out and find a publisher to fund that vision. I believe that indie publishers are a thing and they still get to be considered indie. I believe that when a big company like EA has a big indie initiative where they go out and they fund independent titles, so like unraveled is a big one, uh, in this particular category. So I believe that's still considered an indie.

Speaker 3 14:33

But where I have a problem is when ubisoft is straight up, this is their game. Uh, they I am like I don't know anything about ubisoft officially, but I can only assume they have uh, they have not given creative freedom to evil empire to do whatever you want with this property, um, so there is some issue of creative freedom. There is some issue of whether or not this game is really independent of a major studio or a major publisher. So I think I ended this and so this is like. This is what I like to say as a short and sweet I have stolen the definition from AgroCrab's lead developer. If your game is an indie game, you know it's an indie game because if you wake up tomorrow and you want to put sex in it, you can. So that's how you can tell you wake up tomorrow, you put sex in your game, no one can stop you. That's an indie game.

Speaker 1 15:36

No, but that makes sense, I mean. So this is actually we in this beginning of this topic a little bit. Here we talk about the Indie World Showcase, but that's one thing that I messaged you, jill, and I was. We were talking about the yards rising and I said, how is this an indie game? Because, again, atari is publishing it and it's an atari property right? Yep, and and same thing with with the prince of persia game. Like listen, they own that ip. I get it. They want involvement in it, totally get it. But then it's in it, totally get it. But then it's hard to say that that's an indie game because of the fact that it's owned by them and they have creative influence over how things are done. Right Versus a game. That I think like when, when I think indie games, I think of games that are New, inventive, something different, like a new idea, like, even if it's a sequel, it's still like indie right, like it's still like Hades and Hades 2.

Speaker 3 16:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1 16:37

That's still an indie game I think of, like their own IPs, that they're not by, uh, somebody else telling them how they need to do their business right. Um, it's interesting though, because then I wonder about, like crypt of the necromancer and the, the, the, the india, or the nintendo, um the zelda one, was it? What was that called? Was the dance?

Speaker 3 17:01

of the um. I don't remember what it's called cadence of high roll.

Speaker 1 17:03

Cadence of high roll. Yeah, you're right, yeah, yeah, I don't know how much yeah, nintendo had influence on that. I don't know if they're like, hey, here you go, have fun. Or if they're like, no, no, no, you have to like abide I don't think nintendo at any point in its life ever said hey, take this, go, have fun, not a chance in hell I

Speaker 3 17:23

don't think so that's another one of those games that falls for me in the not indie category because they didn't have that creative license. Um, so yeah, it's it is. It's funny because I really I love debating this topic and you can go back and forth and you have shades of gray and it's not a straight line. You do kind of I don't know about this one, but this one I do, and you know, and that's fine, I like it in the intellectual space and I have a lot of fun with it and I'm never like, everyone has to have this.

Speaker 3 17:57

This is the definition of Indian and everyone has to deal with it Because, like, as I alluded to earlier, like the, the indie council, who we all love indie games and we're all steeped in that in the industry of indie games we all had different definitions. So you can't go out there and say, hey, everyone has to have the same definitions, that's fine. The problem that I have with this is very practical in the fact that my channel, the indie informer, um, deals only in indie games. So I have to make these very practical, very hard line decisions as to like, are we covering this game because it's not or is an indie?

Speaker 1 18:37

yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 18:38

So like when these things pop up, when, like the triple I show happened, and then the big reveal it's the rogue prince of persia, I'm like I love it. I love this. Look. I don't think I can cover it because it's not to my mind in indie yeah, no I, and that's what I love about your site and what is this site?

Speaker 1 18:58

can you, can you plug your, your website?

Speaker 3 19:01

yeah, anybody who wants to check out my site and find a lot of things I'll probably talk about on this show can go to the indie informercom and see what's going on in the indie world yeah, but I love how and you should listen to the indian council.

Speaker 1 19:15

If you haven't listened to that, listeners. I love how you had that debate and and I love how there was it was. It was an interesting debate and I don't want to say heated, but it was a fun.

Speaker 3 19:27

It was heated. Okay, it was heated, you're right, there was. There was real passion in there back and forth, but it was fun. It was fun to listen to. It is fun because everybody on there I've said this before and we've all sort of had this moment it is hard to be in a room where you mention a game that's in the very solidly in the indie space and everyone around you has played it and knows what it is and knows what you're putting down. You know, and it's like that's the love that everyone on that show has for indies. But on top of that, we all love each other, like it's a real friendship. We are all that. We all love each other. It's a real friendship. We are all really friends, we all respect each other. So you can get into these conversations and dig in a little bit because we're friends. Once you start getting to be friends with people, you do start digging at them a little bit and like, let's go. You want to go, let's go.

Speaker 2 20:30

Unless they're the president of your, of your podcast, then you don't, then you don't not me. I never take shots at my friends.

Speaker 1 20:33

Nothing but love and warmth comes out of me but I thought there was one interesting point and I'm just maybe I should just have people listen to your podcast and bring this up, but I'm to bring this up here anyway. I thought there was, and I don't remember who made this point, but the point was that indie games are cool right now, and is it that these big you know, these big money are trying to sneak their way into indie games and try to like somehow get that you know that cool? Like, oh, look at, we're cool too, Like we support indie games as well. Give us your money, Right? I kind of feel that way and it kind of feels icky.

Speaker 3 21:12

Yeah, a little bit it is.

Speaker 1 21:14

Oh no.

Speaker 3 21:15

What.

Speaker 1 21:16

Oh, you paused. You paused, I'm good, I'm good. My internet paused. I'm good now I'm good now I'm good. Okay, everyone's fine. Bad stuff happened. I was like I didn't see anything.

Speaker 3 21:28

No, it's the big companies they're like, oh, they're getting on to us. Uh, yeah, I think there's something inherently icky about, uh, a big publisher trying to pretend like, hey, we're just a little guy, and like putting a name out there that people know and feel and getting that sort of grassroots attention, especially since, uh, again, my website, the indie informer, um, is about covering indies, and it's about covering indies not just because I love indie, but because that is a genre of game that is not as covered, despite the fact that it is really cool. Like you're saying, indie games are having a surgence and it's continuing to surge and everyone's sort of looking into it, but like it's sort of a few and far between the indie games that actually break into that high level who are actually getting attention from from mainstream media and all that. And there's a lot of reasons for that and I talk about that on the show a lot no shots at all about anyone in a larger media situations.

Speaker 3 22:38

They have to do what they have to do, um, but there are people out there who are like I made this cool thing and no one knows what it is. No one's seeing it, I don't know what to do. I run into those people all the time, and those are the people I like to highlight, as well as Hades 2. I'm super excited for it. I'm banging at the doors like please let me in. I want to play this test. Play so bad. But yeah, there should be space for the kind of intended category of people who are making their vision and being passionate about it and it's really theirs, instead of this sort of like mask over big business, like look, you can like us, sort of thing yeah, yeah, agreed I feel as though some of that, if I can just chime in for two seconds and forget my train

Speaker 2 23:32

of thought as I'm about to start speaking.

Speaker 2 23:34

Uh is like a lot of it just has to do with groundswell, like once you have something.

Speaker 2 23:38

We're just going to use the most recent indie darling, in my opinion, balach or balach or however you want to pronounce. Like once word of mouth started spreading on that like it got around real quick. So I mean it's. It's about how much people, other people outside, hype it, because obviously an indie studio does not have the company or the money, the finances which is also money to like just spread all of their love all over television, all over magazine ads and stuff like that, where all of your bigger studios do. So I mean it's when somebody throws something out there that's very unique, very different and very creative, everybody's going to hear about it. Where if you put out a really, really solid indie game that doesn't necessarily have that innovation behind it, you're not necessarily going to get the hype behind it as much as like gamers like us would get behind it. Where I think, like a ballatro again is going to appeal to people that are not hardcore gamers, that just want to sit down and play a game of cards.

Speaker 1 24:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 24:31

Not to state the obvious, but I just did play Bellatro. No.

Speaker 1 24:37

Oh, you stayed the office.

Speaker 2 24:39

Obvious.

Speaker 1 24:40

Obviously, you did Okay.

Speaker 2 24:42

Obviously, I stayed at the obvious, roger.

Speaker 1 24:43

Yeah, okay, yeah. Obviously, you did Okay. Obviously, I stated the obvious, roger, yeah, okay, yeah. Well, that was a fun topic.

Speaker 3 24:50

We broke the ice. We broke the ice.

Speaker 1 24:52

It is now. We move on, we can move on. We're in a tropical oasis now. We made it.

Speaker 3 24:58

Got drinks with little umbrellas on them.

Speaker 1 25:01

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure we were going to make it to the other side, but we did.

Speaker 2 25:07

I'm looking for an umbrella currently. I thought I had one around here, I have a drink, but no umbrella.

Speaker 1 25:12

I have a drink too, but, it's not the same kind of drink that you're drinking tropical drink indie world showcase happened the other day and, uh, when this airs it's gonna be a couple days, but that's okay. So I just wanted to get your thought because, phil, you didn't watch it. I'm assuming, right? You?

Speaker 3 25:36

it was real early in the morning. It was early like no one's gonna blame you on that one, that's well, yeah, that's the.

Speaker 2 25:42

That's the reason he didn't watch it he.

Speaker 1 25:43

That's the reason he didn't watch.

Speaker 2 25:44

No, that's not true, like he didn't watch it. No, that's not true. I will watch a lot of showcases as long as that one company isn't attached to it or that other company isn't attached to it. But it's also like I've taken a really big step back off of social media, where I'm not really paying attention to much of anything anymore.

Speaker 3 25:58

You know what you could do, Phil. You could go to theindianformercom.

Speaker 1 26:02

You could go to theindieinformercom and check out my coverage of it.

Speaker 2 26:04

We've discussed the fact that I can't read. We've covered this twice in this show already.

Speaker 3 26:07

It's got a lot of pictures on it.

Speaker 1 26:10

It does have a lot of pictures and I think that if you copy it and put it into a Word doc, you could have the Word doc.

Speaker 2 26:17

Read it back to you It'd be like a bedtime story. I'm all in.

Speaker 1 26:26

I have plans for the night now. See you guys later, that's right. Uh jill, what were some of your highlights from that indie world showcase?

Indie Game Preview and Discussion

Speaker 3 26:30

uh, yeah, indie world showcase let me bring up. I actually have my coverage up here so I can remember all the things I was excited about, um, high like high level thoughts about this show. It's always a cozy and sort of cheesy experience, but I, that's sort of what I love about it. Yeah, um, I thought it was interesting that we didn't get a lot of I don't know if we really except for the last one, last thing, we didn't get any sort of new uh games. There are all sort of games we've known about games I'm keeping an eye on, which is fun, that's cool. But for me, the biggest part of a showcase is almost always like oh, here's the thing I didn't know about, and they did that at the end, which is cool. But, yeah, big for me. Little Kitty, big City.

Speaker 3 27:18

Yeah, I actually watched that trailer. It's good, right, it's adorable, it it's so cute. It is a mischievous little cat doing mischievous things out in the city. Um, it's may 9th, which, to anyone who's in the indie space, heard that date and was like no, no, no, because may 9th is piling on with the games. All kinds of indie games are hitting and they're all top-of-the-year anticipated type games. So everybody who covers indie games around May is going to be like no one. Talk to me, I've got so many things to play. Oh, another really big highlight for me. I didn't know this was coming, but I sort of had a an idea that it might be um lorelei and the laser eyes yeah what is that game?

Speaker 1 28:13

oh my gosh, it's so good, roger, yeah it's so good, I listened to your podcast and I was like okay, you guys are really high on this game yeah, I don't know what this game's about yeah, so the problem with loreline, the uh laser eyes.

Speaker 3 28:28

First of all, it's got a great title it does but it doesn't tell you much about what that game is tell me everything I need to know. It's laser eyes laser eyes, um, and any time it's shown up in the past, it is sort of just like cut weird thing, cut weird thing, lasers mazes, what's happening like that's a really cool hype situation like you look at that I just bought it because of that.

Speaker 3 28:53

There you go, I haven't even seen it uh, but what it doesn't do is it does not tell you what you are getting into when you jump into that experience yeah so if you jump into the indianformercom that morning, it was so it was so weird for anybody who wants like background on how journalism game journalism works. Um, about an hour after the showcase I got the okay to post a preview which I had been working on but had no idea when it was going to go up okay because it was like nintendo's real hush-hush about all of its stuff yeah um.

Speaker 3 29:34

So I was sort of like waiting in the wings, like when's this gonna happen? I've played some of this, I've written some things, but I've no idea when it I should be prepared for it. So it was very much like an hour later, okay go.

Speaker 3 29:48

I'm like, oh no okay, it's gotta go up, but essentially and it's coming out may 16th, so that was a cool bit of news from the showcase the game itself is a. It is the coolest combination of like survival horror, but without the horror. It's got a lot of dread, it's got a lot of like unsettlingness. As far like I haven't played all the way through, I've just done a preview, um but instead of the horror they substitute puzzles, like they you know how, like most survival horrors have some sort of like oh, and then there's this thing and if I can unlock it I can get into another like that's. They really dive into that.

Speaker 3 30:36

Okay, so it's a puzzle game first, but it takes on the framework of essentially a resident evil. Like it's so weird, like it's from everything, like it gets you into your brain, like you don't even. I didn't even really think about it until you got to the part where you leave your car. You go up to like an old, dilapidated, abandoned, abandoned, but very grand hotel that the gates are locked and when you walk up you start hearing a dog barking and my first reaction is, oh, resident Evil, dogs.

Speaker 1 31:17

You know how this is going to go.

Speaker 3 31:18

And then you walk up to the gate and there's this cute little chocolate lab with a letter for you and he's so happy to see you and he's the best boy ever and you pet him and he gives you a letter and then that's the clue to your next thing. That gets you into the gate and when you get into the gate you get to pet him. So that's really all that interaction is Okay. But they, like they knew how they. The game is a conversation with those old school genres, like they've taken control of your psyche by planting things like how the control system works, how the inventory system works, how you can't control the camera, so you're getting angles that look at weird, weirdly and you can't see around corners, and that kind of thing. They've intentionally done this to put you in a space so that they can subvert that expectation. And then you're just petting a puppy, you know, and it's like, oh, did you think this dog was going to attack you? Just pet him. It's so good, it's so good.

Speaker 3 32:31

I love when a game does this. They're playing with me as the player. There are things happening in this game where I came up to a locked room and in the room I could hear people or at least a person maybe on the phone uh arguing and from my perspective, hearing this argument, it sounded like the developer talking to a publisher literally the developers of loreline and the laser eyes. Like this must have been a conversation they had with someone they were arguing about like no, we can't make it just called laser eyes or whatever, like, like, and then there's no context. You can't see it because you're listening in to a door yeah and you're like, did I just hear what?

Speaker 3 33:17

I think I heard, like what's going on in this game, so like there's something on a higher level. I found a um, a manual, which anyone who knows my love of tunic knows I love this particular mechanic in a game, where it is literally an in-game manual for how to play the game. So there's some idea that the game knows it's a game and it's playing with you and it's playing with the puzzles and it's playing with genres and it's talking about what games are and I'm like, oh, this is really cool.

Speaker 3 33:51

Yeah, I already know at least one person who did the preview with me, who I was talking to, was like this is the game of 2024 really and I'm like I I'm not going to contradict you on that, like I'm not far enough to know if that's where I stand, but this is going to be in the top conversations. This will be. You can put it down right now. Record me this game is going to show up. It's already being done in any game all of the game of the year, like awards. It's going to be there. It's going to be nominated that's what I'll say.

Speaker 2 34:27

I just read your article on it, on the indian former, and it does sound very, very intriguing and it is super stylized as well, which is I can really really dig that. It looks very cool, it's very cool just too bad. It's not on a system I can play yeah that's a shame yeah, I

Speaker 1 34:45

wait, it's on PC yeah, that's what he means.

Speaker 3 34:50

He doesn't have a good enough PC and it showed up for the Nintendo so you can go and get it on your Switch yeah, phil.

Speaker 1 34:57

What my actual point was is that it's on nintendo I had to get at least one shot in on nintendo that's right hold on.

Speaker 3 35:06

Let me check this out, let me see what I have here with you haven't listed a switch in pc oh, then that's probably what it is um, is this a Roger game Like?

Speaker 1 35:19

am I going to be scared? Am I going to like I don't?

Speaker 3 35:21

think you're going to be scared.

Speaker 1 35:22

Okay.

Speaker 3 35:22

I think they use those elements, but as far as I can tell, there hasn't been. Literally there's nothing scary about it Okay. I think they're using it to kind of keep you like at a certain anticipation level, but I've not yet.

Speaker 1 35:37

There's no like zombies, there's no jump scares no, jump scares, jump scares.

Speaker 3 35:43

Yeah, nothing like that. It's not a scary game as far as I can tell.

Speaker 2 35:46

It just looks like it.

Speaker 3 35:47

It just looks like it. It makes you think that it's going to be so.

Speaker 1 35:50

Dredge is not a scary game If you go fishing during the day you know, you're set, it's just a normal fishing game. Look at this, it's just a fishing game. Uh, no, okay, all right, well, maybe, maybe, maybe I'll check that game out. If you're, if you jill, if you were saying this is going to be a good game, then I will have to go check it out like that, go check it out.

Speaker 3 36:11

Yeah, okay, all right it might hit roger, if you liked. Um, I doesn't exist. Yeah, it might hit more in that area.

Speaker 1 36:20

Okay, okay, and I will say this I did play Inscription.

Speaker 3 36:25

There you go. That's a scary game.

Speaker 1 36:26

And that was a scary game. That game is actually really scary. That's about as scary as I'm going to get, and I will say that that actually freaked me out too. But actually I mean the cutscene scared me more than the actual game. Yeah, I'm gonna get, and I will say that that actually freaked me out too, like, but actually I mean the cut scene scared me more than the yeah, the actual gameplay yeah, um, anything else from the indie showcase that you're like, oh man, this is something you should check out um, I think that the sizzle reel did some games dirty

Speaker 3 36:55

they did just rapid like banger after banger of game. So the one I do really want to call out is Duck, detective the Secret Salami yeah, and it sounds like I'm making stuff up, but that game is really good, it's really funny, it's really sassy and it's just so absurd that it's like this duck is going through a divorce and like his life is falling apart. And he's a detective but he's like a very cute hand drawn creature.

Speaker 1 37:21

Yeah.

Speaker 3 37:22

If that's your jam, if that's the kind of absurdity you like, you should check out a duck detective, the secret salami, and it's coming out May 23rd.

Speaker 1 37:31

Okay, you know it's fun. I'm surprised it's coming out that soon, because it was. I must have got back from West. I was not feeling the greatest and they were holding voice auditions, voice actor auditions for some of the side characters, and I was going to audition but my throat was all like ugh look at that could have made for a really interesting character.

Speaker 3 37:55

That's true.

Speaker 2 37:55

Yeah, you could have definitely been a character.

Speaker 1 37:57

Yeah, but the problem, is yeah, we love it, we love that, whatever that voice is, and then my voice heals and then I can't do it again.

Speaker 2 38:05

You say I got 24 hours to record uh.

Speaker 1 38:11

So I was surprised to see that that's coming out in may because, yeah, that was a quick turnaround on the voice, I mean, they were asking for voice actors. Now there are side characters. They weren't the main characters, but still I was like wow, that's really fast like, so you could have been snot-nosed kid yeah, there you go that's true there is.

Speaker 1 38:27

That wasn't one of the roles, but sure um no that I feel like I should also probably shout out the fact that heist 2 was announced yeah, not only announced it got a release date at at its announcement, which is a very unusual thing to happen.

Speaker 3 38:45

Um, I have a, you know, a mixed bag of feelings when it comes to steam world games. Um, but we'll see how this one goes. I know there were a lot of people who were super jazzed for this.

Speaker 1 38:56

Have you played the first one?

Speaker 3 38:58

No I haven't.

Speaker 1 38:59

Have you, Phil? Have you played a SteamWorld heist?

Speaker 2 39:02

No, I've never played a SteamWorld.

Speaker 1 39:03

You've never played a SteamWorld game.

Speaker 2 39:05

In his life.

Speaker 1 39:06

Ever, Ever, oh, wow, I liked heist. I think it was 3DS. I don't think it came to anything else right, or I don't think it came to anything else right, or it might be on a Switch now, but it originally came out on the 3DS and it was really good. I liked it a lot. I mean, it was cool because you could shoot the hats off of your enemies, which was kind of fun, and I think then you could pick up the hats and wear them, which was kind of fun. I don't think they did anything for you, though, but it was a neat game though, but it was a neat game, uh. And yeah, I think it's out on the switch now, because I was going to double dip and buy it. Um, but I'm excited for this one. Um, I liked, I liked the, the little kitty big city game. That looked really cool. Um, I'll just mention this because, again, we we kind of talked about this, but that yards rising was weird to me because, again, that doesn't feel like an indie game. That feels like, yeah, way for all, way forward is is making the game. They're indie for sure, but atari is publishing it and it's a atari ip. It seems really weird, uh, and it's weird because it's like a metroidvania, like it's good, it's so different than the original, which is cool, I'm okay with that, I think that's cool, but it's just so different. So, uh, yeah, those were the ones that kind of stood out for me on that showcase.

Indie Games to Look Forward To

Speaker 1 40:32

Um, let's move on to our next topic then. Um, keep turning on this fan. I don't know why my elbow keeps bumping it. But to our next topic. Then. Keep turning on this fan. I don't know why my elbow keeps bumping it, but anyway, our next topic is the top three indie games that have released this year Okay, why did I say year that way? This year, this year and the three games that we should be looking forward to. So, jill, since you are a guest and you again are the expert because you are the indie informer, where can they reach your work again?

Speaker 3 41:06

You can go check that out at theindieinformercom because I am currently looking at the release calendar on the website.

Speaker 1 41:12

Oh, there we go, so you can go and check that out.

Speaker 3 41:16

It's really funny because I'm going to name the three games that I have enjoyed as much this year. But when you ask about things to look forward to this year and you want me to just limit it to three things, I'm like I'll give you three things that are coming out in May and that's going to be tough to narrow down, you know. So so far, my top three are uh, palatra yeah, we talked about, of course, it was fantastic. Uh, turnip Boy robs a bank oh, absolutely mayhem and I loved it.

Speaker 2 41:51

I spent a lot of time with that game so good.

Speaker 3 41:54

I think the only part I didn't love was the last, the kind of last thing where they made you do it over. I'm like, why wouldn't you at least checkpoint things? But you know, besides that it was, it was a lot of fun and even that part I got past, so it was okay. And then I think I'm gonna throw out for my third one snuffkin yeah what is snuffkin? I don't know this game melody of moomin valley okay snuffkin is oh, you should.

Speaker 3 42:24

Oh, roger, this is a you game that you haven't played. This is so upsetting. Snuffkin appears to be a character from like when I was a kid and I went to the library a lot like you would get some of those old cartoony type kids things. But we're actually like really serious also oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know like I'm sort of thinking in the vein of like a where the wild things are yeah, yeah, but this was like a popular character in the skandawegian area and a still very beloved character.

Speaker 3 42:59

I didn't have any of this childhood past with it so I went into it kind of blind. And it is literally just lovely, roger. It is like it's not afraid to talk about heavier subjects, but it is you're walking through and you're just like encouraged to stop and enjoy the breeze and in through the fields and the sparkle on the water and you're helping moomin valley. Moomin valley has been taken over by like rules. I mean essentially okay, I'll tell you guys this. Are you ready? Yes, um, I wanted to name my review for this game.

Speaker 2 43:40

Fuck the police now you're starting to sound like me.

Speaker 1 43:45

You've been on the show way too much um wait, you're just the way you were describing this game.

Speaker 3 43:52

It's so cozy it's so lovely and cozy it would not have been a good fuck the police everybody's dropping f word but me.

Speaker 2 44:02

So far that is true that is true.

Speaker 1 44:04

Sorry, what's going on here?

Speaker 3 44:06

you roll up into, uh, moomin valley and you discover that, like some authority figure has taken hold and decided to put rules everywhere and to like take the natural beauty of of everything, like make it into like a park and like mow everything down and try to make it orderly, um, and like you're not allowed to, like it puts up signs of like no talking, no picking flowers, no, like whatever. So a lot of the um, you wander in and you see these spaces and you just dismantle them. You go through and you do a kind of like stealth missions to get past the like the eye vision line of of guards and you're like grabbing signs out and like property destruction and trying to free animals that have been caged. Um, so, yeah, it is just, it is, every single character you meet is like I've I up until five minutes ago I didn't know who you were, but now that I know you, if anything happens to you, I'm murdering everyone. Like you are so fantastic, you are so cute and I love you, like that's.

Speaker 3 45:20

And then, yeah, you're picking flowers and you're having a great time. You go, you, you hurt, you help through, like um playing musical instruments. So, like, different musical instruments can help you get through. It's sort of zelda e. In that way, you get to a certain level and you get through. I forget now exactly what all of the things are, because it came out some time ago, but like, yeah, it is just a really well developed, a very beautiful, very thoughtful and introspective, but also like really mischievous, which I enjoy and that's what you think I mean.

Speaker 3 46:01

I'm, I'm okay with it, play this game.

Speaker 1 46:04

Play this game.

Speaker 3 46:04

I'm saying this is a roger game, and then you're like you can destroy things.

Speaker 1 46:10

You go against authority and I'm like I don't think jill knows me if you think are you roger, are you looking at this game right now? Tell me, this doesn't look like okay okay.

Speaker 3 46:15

Well, how do you? How do you asking are you roger? Are you looking at this game right now? Tell me, this doesn't look like okay okay, how do you?

Speaker 1 46:20

how do you? How do you spell this? How do you? It is? Snuffkin is actually spelled the way you might snuff like a film and okay, okay, okay, I found it. I found it. Okay, okay, let's look. Let's, I'll take a look here melody of human valley.

Speaker 1 46:37

Oh yeah, I can see, I can see where you're. Yeah, I can see the artwork you're talking about, like the old time, like 70s kind of art, right, okay, yeah, yeah, I mean, no, I'm going to go play this game. I'll go play it, okay I will expect your report. What is this on? Just on pc? Is it just on pc right?

Speaker 3 47:02

now, or is this? Yeah, it looks like no, no, it's on the switch.

Speaker 1 47:04

It's on the switch, that makes sense. Yeah, and xbox and xbox is it?

Speaker 3 47:08

I think it might be a game, pass game, is it not?

Speaker 2 47:11

oh is it. I haven't seen it on game pass, but I could be, wrong and I paid pretty close attention to that. Okay, double check all right, I'll.

Speaker 1 47:17

I'll check this game out because there's a lot of ways I can play this game. So I will play this game and I'll report back to you, jill okay, it's gonna be in your top three okay, all right, now that you're doing it.

Speaker 3 47:28

Okay, all right do you guys want to do top three, your top threes first, and then we go into what we're sure?

Speaker 1 47:35

sure, uh, phil, was that three? Did you say three?

Speaker 3 47:39

I did three. Okay, bellatro, turnip boy, and oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 47:42

That's right, phil. Uh, what are your top three indie games so far?

Speaker 2 47:48

I am also on board with bellatro and turnip boy, as anybody who's listening to the show has heard me rave about all of them and, off the top of my head, I'm not even sure if I've played a third indie game this year. I know that I have, but I can't think of what. I can tell you that it's not pow world now that I scroll through the list here, because that game was the drizzling shits. I downloaded open road, but I have not played it yet and I'm kind of mad at myself when I saw that was out and I remembered I had it downloaded I liked it real good yeah short, very short okay, uh, what the golf is on playstation, I'm gonna give what the golf love again, just because it's what the golf well, the golf is very good that's roger.

Speaker 3 48:29

That's your three oh that's your three.

Speaker 1 48:31

Okay, I'm going through my list of games that I played, I'm like, oh, no, uh, I have to find my three. Bellatro obviously is up there, because Bellatro is very good. I still play that game. I go back to that Everyone's I have. I'm like, oh, I like, so my daughter. This is why we had to get a late starter start into recording. My daughter has play practice and my son has baseball, so I don't get home until late, so I have to sit in a parking lot waiting for one of them and I'm always like, oh, I can I have a, I have a, I have a uh year new year's resolution to beat octopath traveler 2. And I'm always like, oh, I can play that. And then I end up playing like lotro several times and then yep, and then it's two hours later I'm like, oh no, I should have been playing some octopath like this is a great opportunity. It's one hours later I'm like, oh no, I should have been playing some Octopath Like this is a great opportunity.

Speaker 3 49:20

It's one of those games that is so devious because you think you're just going to play a hand and it's going to be real quick, and then you can't stop playing. I know.

Speaker 2 49:30

Even if you do play a hand. I think it's going to be real quick.

Speaker 2 49:32

Suddenly you're on the seventh level, or the eighth level, and it's been 45 minutes anyways, and you're just like oh it happens to me all the time because, like I'll start playing while I'm cooking food at night and next thing you know, like I'm pausing the game to go like get food and set the food down, and then I come back and finish my hand and I look up and I'm like how the fuck is my food cold? I just started playing this a couple of minutes ago.

Speaker 3 49:50

Never mind, it's been 35 minutes, yeah, I had the greatest experience with exactly that on stream. I was like I've just got a couple of minutes left on the stream. I'll just start a thing of velotro and I'll I'll fail really quickly yeah I literally won that hand on stream and no one can like take that away from me.

Speaker 1 50:09

That's awesome that's awesome, I know, and it's always like, oh, I'll just play quick hand, I'll probably get some crappy jokers. And then all of a sudden you get this really cool joker. That's like I'm like, oh man, nothing can stop me now. And then, and then like like seventh auntie, and then it's falls apart and you're like how could this have happened? I had the best jokers ever, or the worst is I'm going to flop out this one Joker, switch out this one Joker for a different Joker, and then everything falls apart for me. And then I get.

Speaker 1 50:38

I get really happy then that when that happens like that, makes me mad. Anyway, I'm going to throw this game in here. I know it came out last year, but I didn't play it last year, but it came out on the switch this year, so I'm going to count it. Let's revolution, yes, oh that game is so good that game.

Speaker 3 50:55

So so good.

Speaker 1 50:56

And their social media is fantastic.

Speaker 3 51:00

Yeah, the little king comes in, he's in character and he's like bow subjects. How dare you? Yes, so good.

Speaker 1 51:08

My favorite was Wayne. So I wrote the review for that game and then I also previewed it at PAX East as well and I posted my review and the King said gamer heads will roll.

Speaker 3 51:23

And I just thought that was so that's very clever, yeah.

Speaker 1 51:27

I love that game so much that on the way back from Boston my wife went with me and I said you have to play this game. And she played it. And yeah, she, she, the whole time, the whole flight back. We're. That's all we played. The two hour flight back home. We played and we beat at least one of them. I got to the new game plus on one of them, so yeah this game.

Speaker 3 51:54

Interesting trivia about this game. I saw this at GDC, I think last year or the year before, I can't remember.

Speaker 1 52:05

I think I might be the first person to ever played it whoa yeah, who was like not in this studio or whatever?

Speaker 3 52:07

yeah, yeah, because like it was really funny, the I went in and I had a great time. But the basis of my preview for that year was the one of the first things the developer asked me. Look at me straight in the eye and you could tell that they're the company who made.

Speaker 3 52:22

It was, uh, movies and like shorts and that sort of thing until this game yeah and you could tell honestly and genuinely, with absolutely no intent to be rude or or anything looked me in the eyes and asked me if I'd ever played minesweeper like with serious concern I'm like this person has to be around people who do not play games at all.

Speaker 3 52:50

And here I am, I'm a video game journalist and y'all you asking me whether or not I've played one of the most iconic games of all time. And in the actual meeting I was like yes, yes, I have actually Like very polite, but when I went back and wrote the preview, I essentially did what I just did. Now I'm like this man straight up asked me and he thought it was absolutely hilarious.

Speaker 1 53:17

That's funny Question did you like Minesweeper? Because I don? Uh question did you like minesweeper? Because I don't? I hate minesweeper, I, I'm not, it's a little stressful like it's.

Speaker 3 53:26

It's one of those games where it's like there are a lot of games that I could be playing otherwise, but sometimes, when I was in my youth and I didn't have access to a lot of things, mines sweeper was it, you know yeah, I think this is way more interesting oh, for sure let's revolution is uh, it's a take on mind sweeper, where your character is, for various reasons, trying to bring down the monarchy, um, and you have to get through each and every level by defeating all the enemies and finding the king.

Speaker 3 54:02

But if you get like the board starts, the playing board starts completely flipped over, so you have no idea where anything is, and if you run into an enemy you get damaged, and sometimes enemies can like pop out of nowhere and attack you. So you have to inch your way around the board and use your various powers and abilities to sort of figure out where people are or attack before you can get attacked. And it's very strategic, but also just a lot of fun. Beautiful, beautiful artwork as well.

Speaker 1 54:37

Yeah, yeah. I asked them how long it took for them to develop that game and they said 18 months, which I was like blown away. And they said the reason being because they said when you work with a studio like buck studio, that they're anim, that's what they focus on, is animation. They said normally we would expect something back in like three to five months, right of like, hey, we need this asset. They're like they're turning this stuff around in like two weeks, like here you go, and they're like wait what? And they said, just because they're so used to that quick turnaround of animation. They said that that helped with that process a lot. So, uh, so, yeah, let's. Revolution is so good, that game is so good. Um, the last game. So there's there's a lot of probably honorable mentions, but the last game I'm going to say is Death Trick, double Blind Death Trick.

Speaker 3 55:29

Double Blind that's a new one for me.

Speaker 2 55:31

It's like a skateboarding trick.

Speaker 1 55:34

It is a. It is a. It's a, it is a. Well, it's a detective type game. So you play as this two detectives actually solving this crime. This it takes place in the 1950s at a circus and the main magician is gone missing. The main magician is gone missing and they call in a private investigator to come in and find out what's going on, because the police won't do anything because they're like well, you guys are circus people and we don't really, you know, don't really, we don't really care about circus people and we're not gonna spend a lot of time and effort into this, right? So they hire this private investigator to investigate. But then there's also another character who shows up and gets this letter from uh, from the magician, uh, who's missing, saying hey, if something happens to me, you got to pretend to come here and find out what's happening, pretend to be me, and uh. So they show up and say, hey, I'm gonna dig into this and find out what's going on, uh. And so you have to. You have to interview and investigate all the different circus performers and ask them a bunch of questions. And as the detective, they won't really answer a lot of your questions because you're an outsider, but as the magician, they're more willing to talk to you because you are, you know, another circus performer and it's really a fascinating and there's a major twist in the game. Obviously I'm not going to say that because that would ruin the game for everybody. I'm not going to ruin it. It's really good though. It is really good and I got to interview the uh two uh ladies, uh that that made the game they're from china actually, uh and uh, just to hear them talk about how much research they did. Uh, that went into the game around the circus, and it was fun that one of them, the artist, um, I believe her name is jenny, yeah, jen, she actually was in Rhode Island, studying at a university in Rhode Island, and was in the city where the last circus was being performed, the last traveling circus, and I asked about that too. I said why did you choose the circus in America, of all places? Right, and they said, well, the American experience of the traveling circus is unique, like that's where it started. And then, you know, finally it did go to Europe and such, but it was a unique experience in America and the fact that we could have something where you have to solve this crime in a certain amount of time before the circus picks up and moves to the next city, like that adds that element of like you got to do this quickly and get this solved quickly.

Speaker 1 58:19

It's really well written. Uh, it's really witty and the characters are really like. You fall in love with each character, even the person that did it. You do fall in love with that person too. It's a good game. It's and, if you like that, ace ventura or ace ventura, no ace attorney, was that ace attorney one? Uh, there's an ace attorney. It's yeah, uh, if you like those games, it's, it's, it's in the same line, uh, same vein as those types of games. So, um, yeah, it's really really good. Um, so those are my top three that I played I love it all right, jill.

Speaker 1 58:54

What are the three that you're most looking forward to?

Speaker 3 58:58

Okay, you're putting an impossible task in front of me, roger, so I'm going to pick my top three of May.

Speaker 1 59:07

But even that's tough, okay, you know.

Speaker 3 59:09

Yeah, so I'm looking at my calendar. Be prepared, are you ready? Yes, I'm almost ready too. Here we go. Okay, top three of May um jesus roger I hate you.

Speaker 2 59:24

Wow, that's usually the kind of stuff I say jill, you're taking my?

Speaker 3 59:26

role tonight. Okay, so I have to put this out there. I've been waiting for this game for years, so um, I'm just kidding, just kidding, just kidding. I don't say the name of that game um, they did a social post saying that it was coming may 29th and I'm terrified that that like it's not shown up anywhere. I haven't seen any previews of it, so like I'm really scared that it's gonna move and this is what's gonna jinx it. But uh, nine souls oh coming uh may 29th okay yeah okay, what's nine souls?

Speaker 3 1:00:12

it is, and it's nine s-o-l.

Speaker 3 1:00:16

Yeah, so like souls, like the sun rather than like Night feed souls it is yeah, it's not a souls like, it is a 2D action platformer, sort of in the Sekiro vein, like it's got really really frenetic, cool, good feeling, feeling, silky sort of action. Um, it is a beautiful, beautiful, hand-drawn, kind of somewhat anime-ish look to it, but it's also sci-fi. Um, and the preview that I got to play of it, um, you're in this sort of like Japanese village and people are going through this kind of ritual of like. They seem really happy, they're about to go to this great place and help their people and whatever.

Speaker 3 1:01:10

But you are a kind of character for some, for, for reasons we don't really understand, you have been kind of cast out of the normal society of things. You have powers beyond a normal person and you are closely bonded to someone who decides to take part in this ritual and you, your character, knows something and normally they're fine. They're fine, they're fine being out and about, like you guys do, whatever. But knowing apparently what they know about this ritual, they follow this person into the ritual and and beyond and you discover it's this whole world of like. Essentially they're like harvesting these people. It's like a kind of sci-fi, like horrific situation. So you're like cutting through, like robots and stuff to get to your friend and there are these huge boss battles at the end and it's just a really cool concept, really beautiful. I can't wait to see more of it. I really, really hope it really does come next month. This has been on my anticipated list for so long.

Speaker 1 1:02:24

This doesn't sound like a Roger game, though.

Speaker 3 1:02:25

It might not be a Roger game, it is a really cool game it sounds like a cool game, but not a Roger game, but that sounds cool. I'm sorry, roger, they can't all be Roger games, I know I know I should have prefaced it.

Speaker 1 1:02:36

what are the top three games?

Speaker 3 1:02:37

that would be, roger, games that you're looking for, um oh god, look at all of these amazing games that are coming out. Um, but I don't want to say one, because then I'll like only have one left. I will go with until then it's coming out may 23rd, and this is a sort of like if you played um a space for the unbound last year yeah, that's good it's got a lot of those vibes happening.

Speaker 3 1:03:10

Um, there's something weird going on. It's a slice of life kind of kids in school age going through school dealing with normal school things, but then, like in the middle of it, everything just kind of glitches and goes back to normal. You're like what was that? The game? Was that my computer? Like what, what's happening? You kind of forget that it happened and as you go through, more and more kind of weird things begin to unravel and to happen. But it's still like about, like your friends and the relationships you're building, and like it's got a very deep narrative, heartfelt core and the pixel art is absolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 3 1:03:58

I cannot wait to see more of this. May 23rd I did a preview of it up on the site that's the Indianformercom, so everyone can go check that out. And now my last Dang it. I really think Can I do just a bunch of tip of my hats, because you've got Indica is coming, animal Well, crow, country, crypt Master, little Kitty, big City is coming out. Paper Trail is coming out, gestalt, steam and Cinder is coming out, haunty is coming out, duck Detective All of these games'm watching the trailer for that right now duck detective.

Speaker 3 1:04:43

It's so good, um, but the thing I'm I'm going to, I'm going to hype up lorelei and the laser eyes. I think this is legitimately going to be one of the best games of this year and I can't wait to play all of it and see what's that, what is at the center of this maze, because something is going on and I want to know what it is that is a good list.

Speaker 1 1:05:08

Uh, I will have to add a bunch of games to my wish list now too that's the, that is the hazard of having me on a podcast. That is true. That is true Because every time you're on I'm like, oh crap, now I mean that's not a bad thing, I've got like 20 things. Yeah, I know, but I have like a list of things that I have to play through now. That's a bad thing. I'm just saying that that always happens every time.

Speaker 3 1:05:30

Yeah, it's just an occupational hazard.

Speaker 2 1:05:33

That's right.

Speaker 1 1:05:33

well informed, that's true, would say that some people would say that uh, a lot of people would say that, not just some people. Uh, phil, do you have a top three that you're most looking forward to for indie games?

Speaker 2 1:05:46

well as of about three hours ago, when you turned me on the little kitty big city that quickly jumped up to my list because it just looks like it's gonna be stupid fun. I did see as I was scrolling through the list of upcoming games on the Indian formercom, there's a game coming out called what the car that looks like it's what the golf will be, right in my wheelhouse as well and I know it's a souls like game and typically I'm not too big into souls like games, but I'm intrigued by another crab's treasure.

Speaker 3 1:06:15

Yes, that's going to be so good. I can confirm stupid fun as of uh like yesterday, I think. Officially I can say I am playing that game whoa, that's all I can say.

Speaker 1 1:06:28

Okay, okay, that's awesome, uh, yeah, so for me that's a good list, phil, too, for me I'm going to say I hope it comes out this year. Mina, I'm really looking forward to Mina.

Speaker 3 1:06:43

Oh, you're jinxing. I'm knocking on wood for you.

Game Reviews

Speaker 1 1:06:47

Yeah Well. So here's the thing. I do want it to go up this year, like for sure. I did bet against it, though, in Fantasy Critic League, so I'd rather lose in that than wait a minute, jill.

Speaker 2 1:07:01

Are you part of this fantasy critic league as well?

Speaker 3 1:07:03

I am um not in it I am you're like the commissioner? Yeah, I'm a commissioner to decide which games are and are not allowed in. But I, I personally do not partake in fantasy league because there's there's too much conflict of interest there for me phil phil has been giving me a hard time about this league for a long time.

Speaker 1 1:07:28

He thinks that that's like the nerdiest thing he's ever heard.

Speaker 3 1:07:31

It's so much fun, it is so much fun like when we went around the table and you were picking stuff and everybody's like oh my gosh, yeah, that's a great pig it's just a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 1:07:42

Yeah, yeah, phil. Anyway, uh, I hope mina comes out. Uh, the other game that I it is scheduled to come out this year 33 immortals. Um, that game looks really fun. Uh, I'm excited to get a bunch of friends. I don't have 33 friends, but I have like five that we could play this game with.

Speaker 3 1:08:09

That includes you, chill yeah, we could get a whole like indian farmer community game going get all 33 of us in there yeah, that'd be great.

Speaker 1 1:08:19

No, that game looks really good, so I'm excited about that it plays really well.

Speaker 3 1:08:23

It um. I am interested because my playthrough only had about seven people in it at the time, so I'm very interested to see how 33 people all together is going to work yeah, how was it with seven? It was good. It was good, so I didn't notice any shrugging, but of course we were in. You know, everything was catered to be as perfect as possible during those like preview situations.

Speaker 1 1:08:49

So, uh, I'm interested to see how it'll work in the wild yeah, uh, yeah, it's like have you seen anything about this game, phil? No, oh, you, have you seen anything about this game, phil?

Speaker 2 1:08:59

No, oh, you did, you've talked about it even Okay.

Speaker 1 1:09:02

So, yeah, I'm excited about that game. And then the last one that I'm really stoked about is demon school. Yeah, I got to try that last year at PAX East and it is really fun, the bit that I got to play. Yeah, I'm excited to play more of that. The story is interesting, the gameplay is fantastic. I'm yeah, I'm excited about that game too.

Speaker 3 1:09:28

Yeah, I think like it's a strategic. You're in school and suddenly everything's taken over by a ghost situation. I think what is most interesting for me of the things. I didn't know about it before I went in for GDC. I played it. The art style is 2D and 3D under certain circumstances and when it is such a cool instance of the art highlighting and supporting what's going on in the world. So when you are in a 2D space, you're in the human realm.

Speaker 1 1:10:05

When you're in a 3D space or there are 3D elements, you're in the like universe, the realm of supernatural yeah, that's a really cool concept, I really liked yeah, and I don't know if I talked about this with you, phil, but like one of the things I liked about it too, it's a it is like in a strategy game, right where you get to see, you get to plot out your moves and see where, like where enemies are, but you can actually see it all play out, and beforehand they can kind of see like what, if you did this, what would happen here, what would happen here, right, and then after you plot all that stuff out, then you just hit play and all the actions play out. It's really cool how that all happens. It's really neat.

Speaker 3 1:10:44

So plus, at one point, um the innards of a zombie crushed, one of my characters oh, really really. Oh boy, it was all the gory details, just blast.

Speaker 1 1:10:57

Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 1:10:58

I was like okay, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 1:11:01

Yeah, so I'm excited for that game. All right, so now that we go Wow, I cannot talk tonight. That means we go on to the games we're currently playing. Please keep that voice on to the games we're currently playing, please keep that voice.

Speaker 3 1:11:21

So, uh jill, what games are you currently playing right now? What can I talk about? Let me, I know that's actually that's.

Speaker 1 1:11:23

That's what I'm running into. There's like a couple games I can't talk about right now, so um, okay, yeah, so I really want to shout out life eater oh, yeah, came out this week.

Speaker 3 1:11:35

It is by strange scaffold, a friend of many shows and many indie games. Uh, zalivir nelson jr, and this is the developer behind, like el paso elsewhere is what I think most people are going to know him from. It is the weirdest, like I don't know if I'm a good person, because I'm good at this game. You know the concept you are uniquely able to speak with the Lord of the Earth, who demands certain things in order to not destroy the world. Unfortunately, what that usually is is kidnapping and brutally murdering people.

Speaker 3 1:12:24

Okay, yeah okay, so the gameplay.

Speaker 1 1:12:28

This sounds like a phil game. It's not.

Speaker 3 1:12:31

I don't know if phil wants uh or no, phil probably would like. This is not a roger game no, definitely not a roger.

Speaker 1 1:12:37

No, it's not a roger game the.

Speaker 3 1:12:39

The gameplay mostly consists of figuring out the schedule of the people you are targeted like. Your targets are given to you and you have to figure out how you have, like, a time limit, because your God only lets you like so long before the end of the world and you have to keep a suspicion meter in mind. So throughout the days you have to do certain activities which will cost time and suspicion and there are levels to them time and suspicion and there are levels to them. So if you do like a really easy thing, like oh, I'm mowing the lawn and kind of looking in your window or whatever, that's like a level one doesn't take a lot of time, isn't very suspicious. But you may not unlock like high level things. So maybe you'll find out that that person has breakfast at nine woo. But like, if you do a high level thing, maybe you'll discover that on the weekends they bury bodies.

Speaker 1 1:13:36

What Wait, what Wait what?

Speaker 3 1:13:38

It's exactly what it sounds like. That's your reaction when you learn that You're like what.

Speaker 1 1:13:43

Did I just read this? Well, if they're burying bodies, do they also pray to that?

Speaker 3 1:13:47

same god. So I'm like okay, I don't feel that bad about murdering this person yeah and then when you get to.

Speaker 1 1:13:54

So that's the first kind of trouble unless they're a grave digger, unless that's their job it.

Speaker 3 1:13:58

It as you play, as you figure out, like, what their life is and what they're doing, you figure out who they are, how their life situation works, what kind of jobs there are. This person digging, burying bodies, it's a cop, oh. And you like realize that sort of trickle effect. You're like, oh, this isn't a great person, so I'm fine murdering them pc only it is.

Speaker 3 1:14:21

It is it's pc. Only right now is what he was saying, but it is very. You just need a mouse. It's not like a keyboard situation because there's a lot of clicking, but um, the second part of the gameplay is the ritual murdering. So it's very important to do the ritual correctly, because if you don't, then the world is gonna end.

Speaker 1 1:14:49

Roger, it's important you're the good guy here. I did not expect this conversation to happen on this podcast ever, ever.

Speaker 2 1:14:56

This is the best podcast I've ever been on.

Speaker 3 1:14:58

Keep going, Jill the things you learn you have to keep in your brain and you're never quite sure exactly what you need to know. So you need to keep everything in your brain because you can't go back to look at all the things you discovered. You sort of either have to write them down or you have to remember. You sort of either have to like write them down or you have to remember. So it's things like uh, was this person living alone? If so, break rib one, two and three.

Speaker 1 1:15:19

If not take out the left lung.

Speaker 3 1:15:21

You know it. Did this person have a black hair? If so, like take out the pancreas. If not, like quarter someone's liver and you're like, okay, um, so you to do? It's like a flow chart of murder. You have to follow the flow chart. My cat is trying to get in the way here, so you follow the flow chart, flow chart of murder.

Speaker 3 1:15:48

Flow chart of murder. You follow the flow chart and then you um the. The actual button to to complete the ritual is called water, the flower. You can take that however you want, but that that jabs a knife into the person's heart. So this person beating heart the whole time. So they're alive when you're doing this to them.

Speaker 1 1:16:10

Um sorry, it's just funny to see your cat walk, to see a tail go by. Come on, little kitty, big city and we lost jill.

Speaker 2 1:16:29

This is why I shut the door to my office jill, because I've got two of them that would be doing the exact same thing.

Speaker 1 1:16:33

That is the best, oh man Hi everyone.

Speaker 3 1:16:37

My cat decided it didn't want to tell you the secrets.

Speaker 1 1:16:41

No, it didn't want to hear that game anymore. Please stop talking about that game. Please stop talking about that game.

Speaker 3 1:16:47

Yeah, but you have to do it all correctly or else the world ends and you literally start from square one. You have to relearn everything that you learned and it's really fun and interesting, so go play that. That is called life eater life eater.

Speaker 1 1:17:03

I I do want to play that because I do like zalavir's games and I like his mentality, like I like his thought process around how he developed games and like how he, you know, really focuses on the well-being of his you know, his studio and the people that work there, um, so I want to support him. I will say this this isn't a roger game, but because the fact that I want to support him, uh, and I do plan to reach out to him and have him on the show again to talk about the game, so I feel like I do want to play it. But you're right, this doesn't sound like a Roger game, but I will play it.

Speaker 3 1:17:39

Got the second one. It's not. She's not getting anywhere near this mic. Um, yeah, yeah, that's really. I don't know what else I like If. If that doesn't sound like your kind of game from that, then sorry, roger.

Speaker 1 1:17:55

No, oddly enough, it kind of sounds interesting. I mean it sounds very interesting, they're so interesting. Yeah, it's a fascinating, weird game. But you know, as you were saying, I'm like, you know, I I mean it's not far flat, fresh from like, probably real, real life, like honestly. So that's, that's the weird part about it. I'm with you, phil I don't know, I don't know. You don't think this, roger, what kind of fantasies do you have when you mow the lawn?

Speaker 1 1:18:27

not me, not me I'm talking about. Like, you read the news and you're like oh my god, like, hey, let me tell you some effed up things that I've been reading about. Hey, let me tell you some effed up things that I've been reading about the news. Yeah, there's some effed up things in the news well, yeah, that's why I'm saying social media.

Speaker 1 1:18:41

You live under a rock yeah, I know I I, which is different than living in iraq I will talk to you guys after the podcast about some of the effed up things I've been reading in the news, because I don't really want to talk about it here on the podcast, but that's what I was like. This sounds like things could happen in real life and that's the scary part. Anyway, yeah, moving on, do you play anything else?

Speaker 2 1:19:07

Playing Stock, my Neighbor Simulator 3. Yeah, I mean essentially.

Speaker 3 1:19:11

That's what it is.

Speaker 2 1:19:11

I just put a bunch of new windows in the house. Oh, you're talking about video video games.

Speaker 3 1:19:16

I thought you meant real life let's see what else I have on my list. Oh, sky Children of the Light I've been playing. If that makes everybody feel a little better about what we're.

Speaker 2 1:19:26

I like the previous one better it just came.

Speaker 3 1:19:31

It is from the creators of Journey, so it is a very Journey-esque game. It pushes the shared experience a little farther and you have more people involved. But socializing and interaction is so limited and when something happened to tear the worlds asunder, suddenly the lights are no longer connected. It's your job to share your little light with the world, reconnect everyone. It is just lovely and happy and it's quite the opposite of the last game.

Speaker 1 1:20:13

You're talking about.

Speaker 3 1:20:13

It's actually so incredibly beautiful. It might be the most beautiful game that you play this year, and the nice thing about it is that it is on steam for the first time. This game has been out, uh, for a long time, but it's on steam for the first time and they've made it free so you can go and download that right now and I will say I cried at the end of Journey. You might cry at the end of this one.

Speaker 1 1:20:38

Okay.

Speaker 3 1:20:41

King's Grave another great game. I think that might be up your alley, but it's sort of a not really a metroidvania it's. It's in that vein of like it's an isometric pixel and you are the king of the kingdom that has.

Speaker 1 1:21:04

50 years ago you died oh yeah, you were streaming this yeah, it's really fun.

Speaker 3 1:21:10

Yeah, um, not huge. Like the narrative doesn't seem to be that terribly important, but the gameplay is just a really fun and smooth loop of like I've gotten the the things necessary people, resources, whatever um to build the crossbow, which the crossbow will let me through this bridge, because the target was across a chasm and I couldn't reach it. Now it's I've got a long distance thing and now I can use the crossbow to kill all the baddies and once those baddies are dead, I unlock the like the beacon in the middle of the town so that other like I can fast travel now, and so you're just going from like place to place to place, unlocking things, getting more resources, and it's like it's a really fun, uh, super solid, really hard to put down kind of kind of indie game, so cool yeah, that looked cool.

Speaker 1 1:22:04

That is right up my alley. I would play that game there you go.

Speaker 3 1:22:08

I think that's what I'm gonna leave it at, because I could be like oh yeah in this game, oh yeah in this game, but those three. If you haven't found something in in those three games that you know speaks to you, then I don't know what to do yeah, because I mean, really that was a quite the breadth of different games there that you actually covered.

Speaker 1 1:22:26

There's there's nothing in that list of games. Uh, I don't know what's wrong with you. Um, phil, what have you been playing?

Speaker 2 1:22:37

uh, obviously I've been playing the usuals and uh, because I knew jill was coming on today, I decided to fire up and start playing a game that I'm sure jill has probably played in or at least bare minimum obviously heard of. I started playing some her Harold Halibut today.

Speaker 1 1:22:54

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 1:22:56

I want to say I'm about two hours into this game. It is very uniquely stylized and animated and I'm bored shitless with it. And then I hit the twist and now I'm intrigued. I was ready to give up on it and then I hit the twist. It's just mundane day-to-day life of you playing as Harold, going through being a repair guy in this underwater crashed space station that was jettisoned from Earth because it sounds like all hell was breaking loose on Earth and all these people survived and they were looking for a happy planet to land on and they crashed into the water and they're just trying to survive there Again. The on. And they crashed into the water and they're just trying to survive there again. The animation is spectacular. The music's been pretty solid as well.

Speaker 2 1:23:36

My one minor gripe other than the fact that the first two hours are boring, very, very boring is that if you want to interact with something, it'll pause and redirect and move your character over to where it needs to be in order for the like scene to start which is it doesn't sound like a big deal, but it really takes you out of the moment of the game and it just, like I said, just jarring is the word I'm gonna use for it, but I'm gonna go back into it now that I've hit this twist and uh, now I kind of want to see how this thing plays out, and I don't know we'll see if I stick with it after all, that I mean, if it kind of fizzles for a while, I might drop out of it, because I was very, very tempted to today, but I kept playing and made it to this point. And now I'm.

Speaker 1 1:24:13

Now I'm like, okay, this is intriguing yeah, it has all that stop motion animation, right is that?

Speaker 3 1:24:19

yeah, that's what it looks like, is it actual claymation yes, and they, um, they have a very interesting, meticulous I don't know if they intended to do it or not, but that's just how it ended up technique as to how they get their clay characters to actually work.

Speaker 2 1:24:38

I can't even fathom.

Speaker 3 1:24:40

Yeah, no, it's wild. Phil might like this game better than me.

Speaker 2 1:24:45

Cause you were bored shitless with it too.

Speaker 3 1:24:48

I appreciate a a narrative. I appreciate it's a little like it's very Wes Anderson in it's sort of narrative approach and I know there are people out there who this is going to be their game of the year and I love that. It's not necessarily that the narrative didn't speak to me, because it's like every time you're interacting with character I'm like, oh, I'm feeling this, I relate to this, this is cool. It is a lot more what phil was talking about, the. The actual mechanics of playing the game are just not fun like it plods it it does, the super sluggish yeah, you're it.

Speaker 3 1:25:29

You're not given a lot of signposting or like ways to know what you're going to be doing, so a lot of times you're sort of like I think I'm going in the right direction and, unfortunately, if you're not, you're going down a lot of corridors, walking pretty slowly even while holding down the run button, you're still not moving the fastest and I'm yeah, like I kind of thought it was claymated as I was playing it, but I was like nobody's still claymating things in these this day and age.

Speaker 2 1:25:54

But it's, it's awesome that they are, because it looks spectacular and just the overall vibe is there. But Wes Anderson's a very, very good way to describe it.

Speaker 1 1:26:02

Is it play? Does it play slow because of the animation? Is that why?

Speaker 2 1:26:06

Um, there might be some of it but it might also be in um support of the narrative. Okay, yeah, I think it's trying to just give you that vibe and that feel to it as well, like atmospheric type of a thing okay but it's like the voice acting has been pretty solid so far. My biggest complaint again just the first two hours are just boring, very, very boring like.

Speaker 3 1:26:30

If you know you're a huge wes Anderson fan and you want that kind of experience in a game, pick this up. This is going to be your thing, you know but two hours.

Speaker 2 1:26:40

That's asking a lot to get into a game, though two hours might be a slight exaggeration, and by slight I mean by 30 minutes at the absolute most it's not a huge exaggeration, like the twist is interesting and, um, I walked away from it like maybe I should check this out, but it's just I have.

Speaker 3 1:27:01

My time is so limited it's really hard to go. Okay, I've been playing this for several hours. I'm still not hooked by it. I'm like, even if this game's narrative goes off the deep end, I still don't like the way it plays no, it's, it feels it.

Speaker 2 1:27:18

I don't want to say broken, I don't want to say janky, but it's. It's just so like I don't know. And there's a couple of even like glitches in the game where you go and talk to like the overseer or whatever, and you go through this elevator and you go up and the chair rises with the person in it and then it'll drop back down. But the person will drop back down and suddenly you can't get back in the elevator. And there's times like you even click the elevator button. You'll stand there for 30 seconds waiting for the elevator even to open up and it's just like why is this the way that it is? But it's, it's pretty on the eyes, it's very pretty on the eyes yeah, 100 and narrative.

Speaker 3 1:27:51

Uh, I have literally the way that they have built the world around them fantastic. I love the atmosphere, so it's a hard one because it's like, I love that it exists, I love that this is in the world. I want people who like for who this game is made. I want them to play it.

Speaker 2 1:28:10

I'm not that person and I'm sure if anybody's a fan that's listening, I'm sure there are fans of it that are just fans of point click adventures. You'll dig it because that's what it is. It's a point click adventure, it feels it, but it feels very dated as well at the same time, just because we're so much more accustomed these days to things moving at a quicker clip where this doesn't, and it's it. It slogs a lot in times.

Speaker 1 1:28:36

I was going to play it now. I'm not sure I will, though, but maybe I will. Maybe I'll just check it out. Just see, check it out. Yeah, it's on Game Pass.

Speaker 3 1:28:41

Right, it's on Game Pass, it's free, yeah Well you could go and you could be the person who loves it.

Speaker 1 1:28:46

That's true. That's true. This could be a anything else.

Speaker 2 1:28:51

Phil, not that I necessarily recall. I saw a bunch of Stray getting played, because my girlfriend just played through Stray and she was absolutely enamored with it, which is fun for her, because she typically doesn't play things that make you think and or have a story that's being told with her or with them, and so, like she even admitted, for the first hour she just wasn't at all paying attention. Then, all of a sudden she started paying attention and she's like wow, this game's really cool.

Speaker 2 1:29:15

And I was like that's why I told you to grab it and play it, because I figured you'd like it that's awesome but I'll play through it one of these days, even though she ruined the ending for me, because she came downstairs screaming about it and I was just like me.

Speaker 1 1:29:26

Uh, I will say this, uh, I also don't have a lot of time it feels like, uh, thank goodness for magic mind though I'll just plug that here because, man, my days, ever since coming back from packs, I just feel like I've been behind the eight ball. I don't know why, but it just feels like I've been behind and I don't know, work has like caught up with me or something I don't know. I don't know it was. It's a weird transition, it really is, and this is like it's taken me a longer transition and I get done with work and I'm exhausted but, like because of magic mind, I'm able to continue with, you know, actually doing my job and continuing to write and continue to review games. So, thank goodness for magic mind. Um, the games I've been playing, uh, I will say there's a couple games I can't talk about right now, but I have been playing one that I can talk about, and this isn't a Roger game and I don't, I'm reviewing a game.

Speaker 3 1:30:37

That sounded worrisome.

Speaker 1 1:30:38

That particular laugh. This isn't a Roger game, it's very I can't talk. I mean, I can talk about that. I'm playing the game. I can't talk too much about the game. I'm playing Harvest Hunt.

Speaker 3 1:30:50

Okay.

Speaker 1 1:30:52

It is a horror game.

Speaker 3 1:30:54

I know this really doesn't sound like a game, I know what I know what this game is I'm like. Why are you playing I?

Speaker 1 1:31:00

know, I know, uh, because it it looked cool and I was offered the code and I was like, sure, yeah, no, you know, I, you know I gotta get out of my comfort zone. Uh, and maybe because I was all energized from magic mind, I thought like I could take this game on I believe in you, roger, you can do it.

Speaker 1 1:31:21

Uh, the harvest yeah, so, so I, I can't talk a little bit about the premise of the game. So you, there's like five nights that you are like, you are like part of this village and you are, you are determined to be the one that goes out and gets the different Ambrosia, ambrosia, ambrosia.

Speaker 3 1:31:44

I think Ambrosia, the Necromancer of the Gods. Yeah, necromancer of the Gods.

Speaker 1 1:31:47

You have to go collect that, Because that's what your city or that's what your village needs. But then there's this creature that's out there that wants to kill everybody, and you also. If you don't take out. So you get five knights, and if you don't take out this monster, it becomes more and more powerful. What did you? What's so funny over there?

Speaker 2 1:32:09

Jill is the creature and the monster.

Speaker 3 1:32:11

I might have suggested that maybe Anyone who's listened to the audio and the monster oh, I see I might have suggested that maybe. Anyone who's listened to the audio has no idea what we're laughing about.

Speaker 1 1:32:19

Yeah, that's true, that's true. So, yeah, so this thing creeps along and you can get weapons, and that's the cool thing. It's kind of like. This is where the deck building aspect comes into play, because you use different cards to say I might want this, this, either this kind of weapons at these different places, um, and you have to spend so much of the resources you have to make that happen.

Speaker 1 1:32:44

Then there's cards that show up that will tell you about it's called the whisper and it'll tell you about the monster, I'll tell about your fortune and there's something else about that as well, and it's just, it's a creepy. It's first person. And the other thing that happens is like in the beginning of the game. So none of this is spoiler, because I can't talk about the spoiler stuff, but in the beginning of the game, this mask because your character has to wear a mask, because that's part of the ritual you have to go into mask mode, like the mask, the cartoon mask, it's the mighty power that will save the day. Yeah, uh, you could go into mask mode and then you can see like highlights of weapons and different things in the different areas that you go get. But it's um, it's creepy it's a creepy game.

Speaker 1 1:33:37

I, I, I. I pat myself on the back for playing this game, because this is normally not a roger game, but I was like I need to go out of my comfort zone and try something different. So this is, this is me trying something different.

Speaker 3 1:33:49

Uh, so I'm a little worried about the amount of games we've talked about today that have ritualistic I know I had the exact same thought too, like

Speaker 2 1:34:01

icky and ritualistic seem to be the two words of this entire show tonight yeah, yeah uh welcome everyone yeah

Speaker 1 1:34:07

they're kidding, they're kidding. Ritualistic icky podcast. Yeah, that's right. We should change the podcast name to that's the title, yep um, what else I've been playing?

Speaker 1 1:34:16

uh, I've been playing some more world. Yeah, that's right, we should change the podcast name to that. That's the title. Yep, what else have I been playing? I've been playing some more World of Grimm. So that's a free to play card game. That's on Steam, so they just added daily quests and weekly quest to that, which is very cool. So if you played Marvel Snap, you'll get the same premise, except this is with Grimm characters instead. So it's very good. So we've been playing more of that. There's a game I can't talk about, so I won't talk about that game.

Speaker 2 1:34:41

Excellent usage of your time there, Roger.

Speaker 1 1:34:44

There's a game I can't talk about, so I won't talk about that.

Speaker 2 1:34:46

I spent three seconds talking about nothing.

Speaker 3 1:34:48

You, literally just have a whole dialogue where you put the bar redacted over your mouth. Exactly.

Speaker 1 1:34:57

Exactly, I did pick up Sticky Business because that just came out on the Switch Shadow release. Shadow release, yeah, and the bundle so like additional clients that you can. So that actually inspired me to do something as well at work. So that's very cool. So that was kind of a neat thing. What is sticky business? So you run a sticker business and you have different customers and you have to make the stickers based on what they're asking for and that kind of like unravels their narrative and what they're going through.

Speaker 3 1:35:32

It's a very cozy emotional A Roger game. A Roger game, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:35:38

This is very much a Roger game. It's a nice game to play after playing.

Speaker 3 1:35:43

Harvest Hunt no rituals no, if it was a turn-based CCG.

Speaker 2 1:35:47

That was roguelike and it was cozy and warm it's straight up a Roger game.

Speaker 1 1:35:52

That's true. And then, yeah, I've been playing more. I took down the King once again in let's Revolution. I love that game a lot. It's so good, it's so good, oh, and then one last game. So our library this is kind of cool Our library, our public library, rents out Switch games Because nobody wants to buy them, rents out Switch games Because nobody wants to buy them.

Speaker 1 1:36:17

And my wife was at the library last week and she said have you heard of Fae Farm? And I said I have. Actually, I was at PAX West and they had this huge booth on it.

Speaker 3 1:36:26

Really cool booth.

Speaker 1 1:36:27

It was a really cool booth. And she said, should I rent it? And I'm like, yeah, you should. So she rented it and it was fun. We were going to play games last night together, cause we, she, she likes to play Dr Mario, she's very good at Dr Mario. There's nobody. I will put her against anybody to play Dr Mario, she will beat anybody. She's very good at Dr Mario. And and then, but she was like, well, I said, show me Fay Farm. And I just enjoyed just watching her play that, because she was really. You know, she loves that game a lot, and it's funny because my son has been playing Pioneers of Olive Town, okay, and which is a farming sim, and he saw my wife playing Fay Farm and he's like that looks really cool. I like the fact that there's magic and okay, he's nine, okay, but this is that. I was like, oh, he's like, but you can't romance anybody and I want to marry somebody. So, but then we found out that you can romance.

Speaker 1 1:37:25

And now yeah and he was like, wait, you can. So now this is his favorite game, so now he's been playing it. He is nine, but man, that guy has the charm. I have never met a more charming person than my son.

Speaker 3 1:37:42

Well, he's going through all these games Learning to romance people, I know.

Speaker 2 1:37:46

Turned him on to Stardew Valley.

Speaker 1 1:37:49

He knows when and how to turn on the charm. And I'm not going to gonna lie, I worry a little bit. He is, and he's a handsome little dude. So I'm like oh boy, I'm in, I'm in trouble you're not in trouble, the ladies are yeah, yeah, and he's got big blue eye.

Speaker 1 1:38:15

Oh my gosh, he is. He is a handsome man and I'm like, oh man, uh, so yeah, that's what I've been playing. Um, before we head out uh, I know we're going a little long, phil, should we talk about the game that you have been playing for mike? We'll wait for mike. Can I just say one thing, since jill is here, so uh no okay, well I'm going to anyway,

Speaker 1 1:38:39

and I quit and that's the show. Um, so, every, every, every so often, every so often, like every once in a while, like once, phil like beats a game. We used to do this. There's tales from the e-shop thing and we were really worried that Phil was going to quit the podcast because he was really hating he really was and then we thought, well, let's do it a different way. Let's have a competition between Mike and I and we have to try to sell a game to Phil to play. So, the last game, what was the last game, what was the last game you played? Cassette Beats, cassette Beats.

Speaker 2 1:39:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:39:15

I don't remember what the game I picked, but you picked. But Mike picked Cassette Beats and we played that and it was fun, I liked that game. But this week or this time around, Mike was selling Evil West and I was selling your favorite game, Jill. Tunic, tunic, yeah, and he said no to Tunic.

Speaker 3 1:39:40

He said no To the best adventure he's ever going to have in his life.

Speaker 2 1:39:45

That's what I said, go ahead and tell her why I said no. Roger before you make me look like a shithead of a human being. I can do that on my own.

Speaker 1 1:39:51

I don't need your assistance Because he already played it and he was like that. I already played that out because we were trying to find games he has never played before understandable and understandable and I, but I didn't know he already played it and he was like no, and I said wait until jill comes on the show I'll be just outraged yes this might be the last time wait what wait, what for april?

Speaker 1 1:40:17

um, but yeah, so so I haven't played evil west yet, but that's what phil's been playing, so. But we'll wait for mike to come back, because that was his game. He picked it, so we'll we'll allow him to to talk about that. So Well, that is where we're going to end the show Before we head out. Jill, where can people find you on social media and read all your articles and such so you can find me personally on Twitter at Finruin F-I-N-R-U-I-N.

Speaker 3 1:40:48

You can follow the Indie Informer at Indie underscore Informer, or you can go and check out TheIndieInformercom and read all of our things. Follow the indie informer at indie underscore informer. Or you can go and check out the indie informercom and read all of our things. It does have a patreon. If you would like to support indie journalism covering indie games, um, I am headed out to summer game fest this year, so stay tuned for all the really cool stuff I see there. I'm also part of the Indie Council. We do a weekly podcast about what's going on in the indie world and sometimes we get into very serious topics this time around. Sometimes we get into very heated debates about what is or is not an indie, but we're always having a great time.

Speaker 3 1:41:28

Yeah so go check that out.

Speaker 1 1:41:30

Yeah, go check it out. Jill, you do a really I mean you do a really good job. You know that. I mean, yeah, I it. I will say this like, not that I compare, but every time I read something I write something. I'm like, oh, I wrote something I'm so proud of. And then I read yours and I'm like, oh, my God, I have so much growth. Yeah, I have so much growth. And it's usually the same game that we played and I'm like, yep, I got a lot of growth. I gotta go, but it's, it's fun because I you are so kind to me, because I have asked you, can you read this for me and let me know what you think? And, like, your words of wisdom helped me grow as a writer.

Speaker 3 1:42:06

So thank you for that it's one of those things that when you're in this particular job, like you, you, you don't do it on your own, like there's literally no one here that's doing anything on any sort of level. That's on their own. There is a whole network of people supporting you, and I'm lucky enough to have had like Game Informer and the Game Informer fam. Like we're still friends and we still reach out to each other and we're still talking to each other. And like all of those people who helped and shaped and supported. And like when I was starting out as a little baby intern, like I didn't know left from right, you know. And like having everyone around me and supporting me and lifting me up and becoming a better person. Like I want to share that as well. So like that's, that's how we all get anything done in this industry well, that's very kind you're.

Speaker 1 1:42:59

You're a good friend, so I appreciate you appreciate you guys uh, phil, where can people find you?

Speaker 2 1:43:06

on the rare occasion that I'm actually on social media.

Speaker 1 1:43:08

You can find me on twitter at b now 23 uh and listeners, you can find me on Twitter at NintendoRodge. You can find GamerHeads on Twitter at GamerHeadsPod. You can go check out our website at GamerHeadsPodcastcom, where you can hear the show and reviews and news articles, and you can check out our YouTube channel, youtubecom slash GamerHeadsPodcast, where you can hear the show. Uh, so every episode is actually now on youtube, which is pretty cool and uh, and then I do some streams as well, so you can check those out as as well. So, and I played a couple games of bellatro. I have not won a game on stream, but I came close, I came close after this, you going to do it.

Speaker 1 1:43:53

Yeah, maybe I have beaten the game three times, but I've not beaten it on stream, so we'll see. Jill, thank you so much for joining us this week. It was really fun. I always enjoy having you on the show. It's a blast.

Speaker 3 1:44:06

So thank you so much, I'm sorry. Like I started out with corruption and I ended in ritualistic murder.

Speaker 2 1:44:11

But thanks for having me on. Sounds like a Thursday night to me.

Speaker 1 1:44:15

Yeah, it does. Yeah, thank you so much, Phil. Thank you so much for joining us this week.

Speaker 2 1:44:21

Always, man. I'm also thankful for Jill, because Jill makes me have to not talk as much and that's always a good thing for everybody's ears. Plus, she's way more educated and way more informed than I am, so she got wisdom.

Speaker 1 1:44:37

And listeners, I can't, I can't argue with that. That's the truth. That's all truth statements there. Listeners, thank you so much for giving us a listen. If you like to hear, leave us a review. We want to hear what you have to say about the show. Also, go check out the Indian former. Go check out the any council Fantastic stuff over there as well. So if you like listening to this, listen to that as well, because, like their podcast is 10 times better than ours, but but it's fun, you know? Yeah, it's, it's with that. Everyone, stay safe. We'll talk to you next week. See ya, bye.