Well Seasoned The Podcast
Well Seasoned The Podcast
Diversity & Inclusion
Staceyann & Patrick are joined by Pawntra Shadab, VP of Events & Marketing - Elite Productions Intl. to discuss diversity and inlusion. Join us as we discuss the challenges faced by people of color within the industry and how we can all be allies when planning and executing events.
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Hey everybody, quick editor's note. Due to some technical gremlins, the sound quality of this episode isn't perfect, but it is so relevant and timely that we couldn't hold it back. So, with apologies for that, please enjoy this interview with the great Pawntra Shadab.
Patrick Brochu:I just want to sit in this room and, uh, wear an all-green morph suit.
Pawntra Shadab:You should and be a floating head?
Patrick Brochu:I would just be a floating head.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Oh my god please make it stop. Welcome to another episode of Well Seasoned the Podcast. I am Stacy.
Patrick Brochu:And I'm Patrick.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:One day, you'll get it. We have another amazing guest with us. I'm really excited for this podcast and I'm so happy you said yes. I am so happy you said yes. We have Paw ntra Shadab, CTA, CIS, VP of Events and Marketing for Elite Productions International, also past president of Orange County MPI Chapter. So welcome. And thank you for being with us.
Pawntra Shadab:Thank you for having me. Congratulations on the podcast I'm super excited to be here.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Thank you. Thank you. We met when the world was open.
Pawntra Shadab:Yeah, it was IMEX right?
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:We were in Vegas, yeah. And um, Patrick introduced us via a happy hour that turned into a dinner that was then the MPI Rendezvous. We had so much fun. Yeah, we had so much fun. And so we invited Pawntra on because we have an episode that is very relevant, very timely, and I think it's on the forefront of everyone's minds. And it's about inclusion and diversity in events, right? And as we walk through 2020, and life in general, it's a topic that we're all faced with and I want to say that Patrick had some concerns. Here I am getting called out. Five seconds in. Five seconds in. All right, let's go. No, but it's something that I want to address right at the top. And I think Pawntra you did a really great job explaining it. You had concerns. How did you put it, Patrick?
Patrick Brochu:I said, I'm very excited about this episode and I think it's a very important episode. However, this might be the episode where I'm the quietest because I'm not sure how much input I will have for this particular episode and subject matter.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:And Pawntra showed why I was so excited having you on this episode, because then how did you respond Pawntra?
Pawntra Shadab:I was just grateful for him that he recognizes that this is an important topic, and he respects the issue. And diversity is all about having everybody's voice. So I think the fact that he is here, and he can offer his insight and be an ally to the community is fantastic. So I don't think he should hold back, I think it should be a open dialogue between everybody.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Exactly and this is something we all walk through in our daily lives. Patrick, you are an ally, if it hasn't been said before, I'm saying it now out loud, and your voice and your thoughts and how you are contributing to increasing diversity and inclusion. I mean, you work for a company that is minority owned, not a small company. It's huge and do great things within the community within Florida and also within the events community, not to mention everything else you do in your daily life, it's really important. So Pawntra, I want to just start off very basic, and not so basic, because you're Pawntra. Tell us a little bit about your background, your industry background.
Pawntra Shadab:So my mom -- shout out to Lily Shadab -- she started Elite Productions International over 20 years ago. So definitely a pioneer in the industry, woman-owned business, minority-owned business, total boss, amazing, amazing inspirational role model. And I got to see what it took to be in events behind the scenes creating collaborating the hard hours, the long hours, all the craziness and all the good all in one. I in college wanted to pursue being a producer in TV and film didn't anticipate being an events. But it was something I was doing on this side. I was hired by my campus to plan events for my campus, I worked with my friends and we produced a lot of music events and concerts and art shows and stuff like that. And it was really something that was really easy for me. And I just really loved doing it. And I had the opportunity to do an official internship with my mom and didn't look back after that. And so I was able to start working with her and kind of work my way up through the years. And now we're business partners, and we design and produce corporate events, social events, entertainment industry... I love it, I get to design I get to produce and have fun, even though we're in the virtual world. I'm still getting to do that. And that's exciting. So just learning something new.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:When I started off in events, too, I kind of started off along the public relations track.
Pawntra Shadab:Okay.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:And like you, did the whole media thing right? I worked for NBC for a little bit doing Weekend Today and doing all the entertainment segments there. And then as I started doing that, I realized, Oh, it's not really the media, it's more of the planning that I like. And that's how I kind of fell into events in general.
Pawntra Shadab:Totally yeah those large scale productions are such a great experience, I think for me, because I got to see what it took to put on something so large, like I've been working on the Oscars and the Grammys, and like the Gold-- you know all these major shows, and you really see how many people it takes to plan such a production. And I think that part is super cool. I get more excited about all of that behind the scenes stuff and inner workings than the celebrities that are walking the red carpet.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:It's so true. I always say my favorite part of events is the fact that the success of one event doesn't lie on one person, it takes an entire village to bring it together, whether it's rental company, or the event planner, or the floral or the servers, it takes everybody to come together for the success of an event. And the community of working together is one of the greatest things, even in planning in the corporate world. You know, sometimes departments or silos with events, you have to communicate with finance, you have communicate with sales and marketing, you might communicate with the doctor, whoever... that's my favorite part of doing events. So, you're talking about almost 20 years of experience. So you've seen a lot of changes within the industry. What do you think were some obstacles that you faced early on, especially being a minority woman owned business.
Pawntra Shadab:I think just that. Those are two major ones. Something that is personal to me is I think being the daughter of a... of somebody, I've always felt like I had to work harder, because I didn't want it to look like something was handed to me. But in our local area in Southern California, in Orange County, it's not that diverse, especially 15 years ago. So I think being in those environments, where we stood out a little bit more than the normal it was mostly Caucasian and male dominated with some of the clients that we have. So it was very different. But at the same token, it's all I've ever known. So I've just kind of learned to have that that's my reality. You know, like, I don't know anything else. And that's, I just kind of work with it.
Patrick Brochu:This past weekend, I was actually speaking to FAU, Florida Atlantic University's meeting planning class from their School of Hospitality and Tourism. My good friend Marianne Schmidhofer is the professor. And in that class, she said, this was the first year it's an all female class. And I was saying to her that this year on the MPI board that I still sit on as the immediate past president, I am the only male on the board. When you look around at some boards that aren't very mixed or male dominated. It feels like in our industry, there's so many more females. So it's starting to reflect that a little bit more. But I totally understand what you guys are saying and I won't name them, but different segments of our industry where you're absolutely right. It's maybe majority female, but then it's mostly Caucasian males dominating upper management Just literally as you guys were talking about, it just popped in my head. Thinking about that conversation with with Marianne last week. This week. Gosh, I don't even know what time of the day-
Pawntra Shadab:It all runs together-
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:It's all coming together yeah.
Patrick Brochu:Yeah, right?
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:I was thinking about the time when I was doing site visits in Rhode Island for an event. And, uh I went to do the site visit and I brought my mother along, because they have really nice wine country. So I kind of took her wine tasting with me. So we would go places, I kind of just leave her, let her do her thing and come back and get her. At the time I was a manager with signing authority, basically, if I like the location, I could sign a contract on the spot. And so I'm doing the site visit and I'm kind of asking questions, and he's rushing me through and he wouldn't give me the time of day. So I get in the car, and I'm driving back with my mom. And she's like, that was really quick. And I was like, Yeah, he just would not talk to me. I'm like, I'm pretty sure that he just did not respect me as a black woman, probably thought I was lower than who I was. And he called me while I was in the car. And he's like, oh, Stacey, I just looked you up on LinkedIn. You went to George Washington, University for your masters? And I'm like, Yes. He goes, That's pretty impressive for a Black woman from the Bronx. And I was like, Did, did you just say that out loud? Like what is happening right now? And he goes Yeah, I looked you up, I just thought you were a secretary. If you want to come back in, I could actually show you the space. And I'm thinking to myself, You acknowledge fully that you just wouldn't even respect me based on the color of my skin. And then on top of that said, Well, now that I know you can bring me money, I said, I need you to know that you will never get business with this company again. And wherever I go, you have just locked out -- and I'm talking about I was bringing maybe a million dollars of revenue to this hotel, like REVENUE. And my mom goes, do you face this a lot? And I said, Yeah, I do actually, you know, especially when I have managers that report to me, and they're white. There's times when they won't even look at me like site visits I'll say You have to send me the contract and instead their response is Well I'll give it to her and she could send it to you she wants.
Pawntra Shadab:Some people are just not educated enough. So I think they react without realizing where they're coming from not to make it okay, but I'm trying to be open minded about all this. Some people think I'm a terrorist, because my family is Middle Eastern, they just associate things and they don't think about it and it's just not an educated response. And so it's sad that it has to get that way. I do think people have gotten better, to Patrick's point. It's evolved so much in our industry over the years. But I do think there's still a lot more to go.
Patrick Brochu:I think in the segment of what you're talking about Stacey, especially that particular example, or those micro aggressions that people put out there. Oh, you're pretty for insert a color here, whatever. That's a microaggression. Same thing. Oh, I didn't realize now I'll give
Pawntra Shadab:Even if you weren't a secretary, you're you the time of day because you were educated. That's a microaggression. That's crazy. Why does that matter? And why is that the determinating factor in having you for a site visit or especially you're in a busine s role. bringing business to them.
Patrick Brochu:Exactly.
Pawntra Shadab:So I feel like no matter what, you have to have respect for everybody, it doesn't matter.
Patrick Brochu:I can't tell you how many people with the job title Personal Assistant end up with massive budget events that they're bringing into us. It doesn't matter, you should treat everybody the same. And actually, outside of our industry, one of the high end car companies, I don't know which one, neither one of them are sponsors, so I'm regretting saying their names, maybe they'll be sponsors one day, but Lamborghini and Ferrari, it's one of the two of them, no matter who walks into their showroom, they have a policy that they treat everybody exactly the same. And I think that's the way they should, because you never know.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:You face that in so many different ways. Even dealing with AV -- I'm sorry, Patrick, kind of putting you on the spot -- but it's so uncommon to see AV, IT, like a woman in that role, that people automatically assume that they don't know what they're talking about. You can ask for specific lighting, or you can ask for something else and it's almost like immediately, they want to talk down to you because you don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't really matter what part of the industry you're in. These are things that we need to recognize.
Patrick Brochu:I absolutely see that in the audio visual industry. Here at my particular company, we have four females, that's a pretty good percentage when you're looking at a company of 20 to 25. So with that, when we're on show sites, and we're out with a project manager like Gabby, who I work with, or Jennifer, really talented project managers, I see the way sometimes that there are crew members that are paying them attention for the wrong reasons, but not giving them the same respect that they should as a true project manager. It's frustrating to me, and just this week, Stacey and I we're actually working on a production together and one of our managers on this one is Gabby and she's really has a total handle on everything in our industry. And I try to treat everybody the same. But sometimes I find myself trying to go out of my way to encourage them, because I want them to understand that they're as respected and a part of the team as anybody else.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:That's what being an ally is, it's those things for sure. Let's talk about what it looks like in the event setting. The panels, the audience, the agenda, the food, the beverage, there's times when you're sitting in a room, and it's general session, and just the topic alone, you just know that there wasn't someone at that table to say, hey, that's wrong. Don't say that. It's offensive, you know, kind of talk about what we can do to combat that.
Pawntra Shadab:It starts with the core team. If you have a diverse planning team, they can all share their voice so that you can help avoid a lot of those things. In some scenarios where you don't have that opportunity to have that diverse team, I recommend working with organizations or with individuals that can come in as a consultant. So you can share with them what the program is and then they can offer insight on where you can make changes, because there's so many things that can be done, like you mentioned, having a wide variety of speakers having a diversified menu. But there's also the accessibility. Do you have people that are in wheelchairs? Are you accommodating them? Do you have people that have hearing issues or visually impaired or even people's pronouns, we want to make sure that their badge is representative of who they identify with versus limiting it to just a couple things. So I think there's just so much that you can do which is great because it allows you to really encompass these tools within so many different aspects of the program. But it's a learning process. You have to see what is going to work and what's going to be appropriate for your company and your event. And it's nice that there are a lot of certificates coming out lately for diversity and inclusion and different ways that you can implement into your program. There's so many different ways like I just mentioned, I'm trying to think specific examples but...
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:We're at a time right now too where before where you voice might not be heard, I think that companies are actually taking a step back. So it's kind of like we have to ride the wave right now. And a great example is one company I worked at, we were putting together a booth, and they gave me the graphics for the entire booth. And there was not a single person of color. And I said, not only do people of color working in the booth, we're also selling to communities. globally. If it doesn't represent who I am, why would I come here? And it was one of those things that was kind of poo pooed out. And that was it. Well, come back the feedback that was something they got over and over again, was that it this booth did not represent who I am. And there were times I was standing there a customer would say, How do you feel working for this company? Well, now you put me in a position. Thankfully, that was a moment for them to learn. And a very white male-driven company completely turned to actually very minority woman driven now. And you can see it immediately in the visuals, the marketing.
Pawntra Shadab:Marketing is key, because that's what's going to attract to the attendees. That's like the first touch point. And if you can't identify that and make people feel comfortable enough to want to register for the event and want to be a part of it, then you kept them out.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Even on panels and agendas it's something that I think about constantly. It doesn't matter if it's nonprofit, or profit. A lot of times people will look for speakers within their industry to represent them. And it's not very diverse. Or you end up with someone on stage who doesn't represent your values. Taking the time before to say, Hey, we're going to meet with you whether it's 30 minutes or an hour. And I need you to walk me through what you're going to be saying,
Pawntra Shadab:Because as a
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Yeah, again, a lot of times it's like, oh, they're donating their time. So that's perfect. No, no, it's really not. We still need to vet them the same way we would someone who's paying. I am grateful that you're donating your time, and let's be real, a lot of times someone's donating their time, they're still getting something in return, it might not be a check, but there's something in return that's happening. So we do need to do our part with that as well.
Patrick Brochu:Pawntra earlier, you were mentioning the pronouns and my wife who's a high school teacher who started out the year teaching virtually was pointing out to me that many of her students in it, it kind of caught on and became more and more popular, but, at her school were putting their pronouns next to their name. It would be he, him, his would show up after their names. And she was surprised how many people did use different pronouns than she would have known because she didn't know many of these kids, they were ninth graders, she teaches high school coming in, so she didn't know them. So she was able to understand that over I think, and I think that the important lesson is here, how much more accepting even the next generation behind us is becoming. And I've actually heard of a few different companies that are doing virtual events that also, no matter what, they're asking for their pronouns to be on their lower third or their name graphic. So that's something that is very interesting to me. But in that, the greater thought, and I'm rambling, that I was wanting to get to is the different types of diversity that we should be looking at. Because obviously, we started off this conversation, we were talking about gender, we've talked about race, we've talked about sexual identity. What other types of diversity are there that we're not thinking about?
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Yeah, I think Pawntra even touched upon it, you know, accessibility, disabilities. Even I work with somebody who is a veteran who was in Afghanistan for 12 years, I believe. He's someone who cannot deal with large groups. He can sit in a meeting, if it's a silent meeting, and we're all sitting there and we're talking, that's fine. But when we get to the happy hours, when we get to the dinners, when we get to those social functions, he can't process that. It's a disability, it's his PTSD that we have to accommodate. Now, that's something that working with the military and working with vets, I'm very conscious of that as well. When I do events.
Pawntra Shadab:I think the best and easiest way to describe it as diversity is how you identify yourself. You can be a variety of different things and there's no limit to how you can identify yourself. But the inclusion is where you are able to accept and respect all of those identities and all of those different diverse people.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Diversity is never ending.
Pawntra Shadab:Right.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:I don't want people to listen to this and say, Well, how am I going to cater to every single thing that comes my way? It's exactly what you just said, it's the inclusion part. So now you've learned about this person's wants and needs. How do you respect that throughout the event? I've done events where I catered to everyone and there's one person who feels left out, maybe I didn't know about it prior to the event. Maybe it just wasn't received respected in the planning of the event, but now that they vocalized it, it is my job to make sure that they know that they will be catered to as part of the group. And it could be something as simple as kosher meals. And just making sure that it's not just here, some chicken and rice and that's what it is. Make sure that they feel catered to. If everyone's getting appetizers, they have one too. Or I had one person that's like, Listen, I'm super simple. I just want cereal and milk. It was so funny, because he's like, I'm out of the house, I can now have Fruit Loops, and I want Fruit Loops. That's all I want. And I went to the supermarket and I got him Froot Loops and milk and it was great and it was hilarious cuz the next day his wife showed up and he's sitting there with Froot Loops, spoon to mouth, dead stare at the wife like, Oh no, how did you get here? But he was so happy with that, you know, that was how he felt included. We're in hospitality, we cater to people. And that doesn't mean you're catering on the same level across the way... it's individuals.
Pawntra Shadab:And I think that's the beautiful thing is we're also different, and we all bring something different to the table. And that's where having a diverse planning team, or working with someone that could really work together to really produce the most ideal event. To your point, Stacey, you were speaking earlier about the marketing. That's the first touch point, if you can create something that is welcoming enough for people to go past the marketing and get to the website where you register for the event and get someone to start doing the registration process, I think the registration process is really where the planner can see the type of people that will be attending. So from there, you can make the decisions on who to accommodate it and how, you know, so instead of having just a Mr. and Mrs., let's list all the available pronouns. Let people pick what they identify with. We already do the dietary we do all of that, but what are some other areas that we can add within the registration that will give us data as planners so that when we are producing the event, we have to make sure that Well, okay, there's two people that are in wheelchairs, I want to make sure that the registration desks are lower so they're able to still interact with people. Or that there's seating available for them, maybe someone is larger, and they don't fit in certain seats, or there's so many different things. But if you make people feel comfortable enough to express that from the beginning, then it's easy for us to be able to execute those requests.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Right. And I can hear the corporate or the financial side of it, We can't afford to do that. You can't afford to not cater to your customers. You can't afford to not have them feel like they're included in part of the event. Because you know, what, if you won't include them somebody else will.
Patrick Brochu:Exactly.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:There's a lot of it that goes down to just basic human decency.
Pawntra Shadab:Yes, it really is.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:A lot of it does not need to be taught, it really doesn't. And just as important as a pre registration is to post survey to, I can't tell you the amount of surveys that go out and you just know they don't read what comes in. Or you just know that they only cherrypick the great quotes because they want to put it on the marketing for next year. Read those surveys, take everything in and apply it to the next event that you're doing and not just the next event of that same one, but the next events that you're doing like oh, that's something I didn't even think about wheelchairs or ramps or accessibility. The same way we do site visits and we go I want to see what the loading dock is because you want to know about the behind-the-scenes, we should be doing that or our guests whether it's asking about what are your ADA modifications-- I'm missing words -- to your, your property or what can we do to accommodate XY&Z
Pawntra Shadab:Or closed captioning having trans interpreters
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:It goes on right?
Pawntra Shadab:It does. But I think being able to vet that from the beginning will help the planner from feeling overwhelmed with having to do so much who you're just focused on the people that are in attendance.
Patrick Brochu:Speaking of closed captioning, our amazing sound editor --
Pawntra Shadab:Amazing.
Patrick Brochu:-- and director, Rocci Doria, is now transcribing every episode of Well Seasoned the Podcast so that we have it available. We don't even know that we have anybody per se. But if we do we have it available. So like you're saying, we're just ready just in case and in a live broadcast event that Stacey and I were working on, on that one, we also had live closed captioning ready to go just in case. It's a button. For a corporation, it was, to Stacey's point, it wasn't an overly expensive thing to add on. But there was a cost to it. But you can't afford not to do it.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:I know we talk a lot about the attendee standpoint, but within the planning too -- actually this is just life -- I make it a point that every week I find a Black business to support that's something that I do. It's near and dear to me obviously so it could be anything. If y'all didn't know I love to cook already. I found this one group that does grits and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have to get their grits or tea or whatever it is. And I tried to support black businesses every week. Or just POC businesses every week. That's my thing. And that's something in my house, I even tell my husband that I'm like, it's my initiative, but my husband's white, and I'm like, I want you to do the same thing I want you to step out. And a lot of times you hear, but that's so hard, I don't know how to do it. The same way I'm doing my research is the same way you need to do your research. So kind of going back to where we started with being the only one at the table, a lot of times, you'll hear there aren't a lot of minority businesses out there that do what I need to do. I don't want to mention the large event planners or the large rental companies or large whatever, but they'll say I can't find someone to include in doing this. I can't find a Black rental company, I can't find this. I think it's really important that diversity inclusion is not just the outwardly stuff. But it's the things behind the scenes that goes towards that. We should be looking for different companies and organizations to support. I always say I didn't get to where I was, without the help of someone bring me here. And not to say that minority organizations need the help. But we should be supporting.
Patrick Brochu:And speaking about supporting in too many large companies, you don't have enough people at the top, just women in general, and in less cases, to find a woman of color. Totally unrelated, Stacey, you were just telling me earlier this week about sometimes when you're seeing that wanting to prop that person up.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Especially when you're working within a company that might be white male-driven. And then you see a Black person or person of color come in. And they're not just -- just because I consider myself one of the just minions, right-- but they are someone of power and or stature within the company, immediately you rally to support. It's sad that you almost feel like we have to prove that we're here. We have to prove how great we are. And so whatever I do, I'll make sure you look good. I'm gonna make sure I prop you up. And it's really important to me, and I keep saying I want it to be very clear that that's how I operate, right? I'm not trying to force my views or any anything or my actions on the next person. But it's really important to me that you lift one teach one, you support one. And you know, as we all grow, we grow together and we advance together. How many times do we say, oh, who's their connection? How did they get here? Well, now that you have your person, quote, unquote, someone who looks like you on the inside, it's almost as though they have to work even harder to prove that I didn't get here because of X, Y, and Z. I have the knowledge I have the education, I have the skills to be in this role. You're talking on mute, but that's cool.
Pawntra Shadab:2020 huh?
Patrick Brochu:2020, talking on mute. Stacey, you're not a minion to me. And you're not just a minion to your team, because I know your team. And I know how your team talks about you. So I know that that's your thing. But you're not a minion.
Pawntra Shadab:No way.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:I do think minions are cute.
Patrick Brochu:You're important to me, and you're important to them. And you're important to all of us. And I think that's important for all of us to know is our self value and our worth and the thing that we bring to the table, having a diverse workforce and a diverse industry. Everybody brings something to the table. And it's something that's different.
Pawntra Shadab:That's what's amazing. I knew I mostly spoke of being in environments where it's mostly Caucasian, but I also volunteered with the Urban League, and it was a group of young professionals. Everyone was Black, I was the only one that wasn't. But everyone was so welcoming and I learned so much from everybody. And, you know, it's all about the collaboration process, right? We're all at the end of the day here to produce this event or you know, have a final outcome. And why not bring a diverse group of people here together to help execute make it happen? And I think it can happen better when there's more point of view.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:More point of view, yeah.
Pawntra Shadab:More perspectives.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Not only is it better when there's more perspectives, opinions, point of views at the table, listening to understand and not listening to respond. I think that's something that was said by another guest to on our podcast. So many times you sit there and you're talking, you just know somebody is formulating an answer. And that's it. You haven't actually heard what I said. I think that's really important. As we move forward in our day to day lives.
Patrick Brochu:When you're a better listener, you're going to be a better salesperson, if you listen to your clients, if you're a better listener with your spouse, maybe you'll better understand what they're going through and be there for them. So being a listener, with the things that other people are going through that are different from what you're going through, things that I might not have even thought about, you brought up earlier Pawntra, the example of weight. So if you're planning an event and so many ghost chairs, etc. Well, what about it somebody is uncomfortable sitting in that chair because they don't want the chair to break, etc. Those are the types of things that we have to listen for. And we have to understand.
Pawntra Shadab:Definitely. It's a lot of listening, continuing to educate ourselves and being not afraid to ask questions. We're all learning. It's not like you're gonna learn it all now. And it's going to be done. As things evolve within our industry and society, there's more to learn. I actually volunteer on the diversity and inclusion committee for MPI Global. And this past year, we created a resource page. There's ideas on speakers, on even simple things like watch this movie, you'll have a better understanding. Listen to this podcast a little bit, just a resource for you to really get a better understanding of how this all works. And we've included in so many different mediums, so it's easier to understand for different people. And, you know, even for myself, I'm passionate about this topic, but I'm continually trying to educate myself so I could be a better person and better individual with all this. So I think people shouldn't be afraid to ask questions and listen and educate themselves.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Yeah, you're a student in life. And that's in every part of life. Just 10 years ago, we weren't talking about he, she, they pronouns, we weren't talking about male, female, transgender, there's just so much that we were not talking about that we are right now. If you even look at the process when you're filling out forms, right? Just the questions that are being asked that weren't asked before. It's okay to mis-step. As long as you know that when you're corrected, and you're told what is right, you are receptive to that information, and you learn from it.
Pawntra Shadab:Yeah, absolutely.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Anything else, Patrick?
Patrick Brochu:We're pretty much out of time. I think down the road, we're gonna have to have you back Pawntra, and speak a little bit more, because this is truly one of the very important subjects not just for our industry, but for business and life and everything. We are becoming a more and more diverse world, a more connected world. And so that diversity is more and more prevalent and important moving forward. And I think if done the right way, it's just only something that will enrich our communities.
Pawntra Shadab:Well said.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:So we always wrap asking our guests, what's the one piece they want to leave the world with? It doesn't have to be deep. You don't have to give us some deep quote.
Patrick Brochu:It could be Hey, I'm having a good hair day because, uh, nobody can see this podcast but I mean, your hair is on, well your hair is always on point. But your hair is on point. I mean, it could be as simple as that. What's the one nugget that you want to leave us with?
Pawntra Shadab:It's fine. It's gonna sound so cheesy, but I 'm, you know what, I'm just gonna say it. But honestly, I feel like for me, I just want to leave people with like that positivity and warmth. I want to give love and respect to everybody. And I feel like if I can leave, knowing that everyone that I've interacted with, I've done that, I feel like I've left a positive mark. So that I know it's cheesy, but, that's it.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:It's heartfelt. I love it.
Patrick Brochu:It's heartfelt and it's totally you, for those people that no Pawntra. It is totally you.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Alright, Patrick, we're gonna shake some on it. Paprika.
Patrick Brochu:Paprika.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Paprika.
Patrick Brochu:Paprika.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Paprika. And this time, I'm gonna let you go first. And let me tell you why.
Patrick Brochu:Why Stacey?
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:No, because you always play me like, this has to be the lighthearted section, I tell some stupid like, [...]. And then he comes in with the, So I just want to tell you that I can't really take it anymore. And I just sat in my room and cried for the last 24 hours. I just talk about my dog running away from me. You always ruin me. So I'm gonna let you go first.
Patrick Brochu:All right, I'll start I'll start. I was actually thinking about this, when we were going through the rest of this podcast and one thing that I find very interesting. My wife and I, we love to travel and our favorite thing is not necessarily to go to a resort, or something like that, or very adventurous. So we like to just kind of go off the map. One year, I surprised her and we went to Trinidad. I gave it to her for Christmas. And we went a few months later, we flew in, rented a car went up had an Airbnb, just on the top of the mountain, literally the highest point in Trinidad that we could be at and it was beautiful. Well when we were there, it just happened to be Arrival Day. In Trinidad, they celebrate their diversity by having Arrival Day. In Trinidad they have the Asian Indians, so people from India, and then they have the slaves that came over from Africa. So their culture is very mixed between these two groups and the Indians from Asia that came over they were brought over by the Europeans of slaves. And then later, I believe it was the French that brought the Africans over. And Arrival Day is when the the Africans were brought over as slaves. So they celebrate not in the dimness of slavery, but that it enriched the culture of the island when that group of people came, and it is a huge celebration of everything that makes them great with that diversity. And I was thinking to myself, that is a really positive spin on what could be or what is a very tragic time in the history of the world.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:That was nice. I like that.
Patrick Brochu:And so I was thinking about my trip to Trinidad and that I want to go back and get some roti and some doubles.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:I was about to ask you if you had doubles.
Patrick Brochu:That's how I got there.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Oh wait, do you have bacon, pork and everything?
Patrick Brochu:And some again some shark and bake? Yeah, absolutely.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Oh man. I want it now.
Patrick Brochu:Absolutely. So that's my paprika is I was thinking about Trinidad and also how great it is that they celebrate their diversity.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:I like it.
Patrick Brochu:Let's have Pawntra go.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Okay, Pawntra.
Patrick Brochu:Pawntra, why don't you give us what's on your mind, a little bit of paprika. It can be anything.
Pawntra Shadab:You know what? You speaking of travel and being able to speak with both of you, I am very much looking forward to going to WEC. I think with our industry, we've been so contained used to like traveling for events or for conferences so often. And to have like the last few months be at a standstill, I'm very much looking forward to seeing industry peers, and just being in the same space, obviously keeping it very safe and being very mindful of what's going on, but just that in person connection, I miss that a lot, especially with people from our industry. So I'm very much looking forward to that. I think I haven't booked a flight and so long, it was so exciting to book a flight.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Oh my gosh. Traveling here. Yeah traveling, I'm in Florida, you guys, with Patrick, we are recording in the same building, but in two different rooms right now. So we're here, but I hear but Yeah, I agree traveling, booking this flight coming over. I was kind of like nervous about it. And I fly Delta so they were still distancing on the plane. So that made it so much more comfortable. But yeah, I'm excited to go there and see how they do it and see what we can learn. And it should be good.
Patrick Brochu:Yeah. As ever, students of the industry, that's what we talked about. Stacey and I, we both were, Hey, do we want to go, because we want to be safe? And the two of us we came to this point for our industry, we wanted to see it from a learning experience. How did they do it? The good, the bad, the ugly, because they're going to be our experimental guinea pig here in our industry. So what did they do? Right, wrong, indifferent, so we can all can take and learn from it. But yeah, I agree with you. We cannot wait. We cannot wait.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Why paprika, I guess if you go with the whole diversity thing is the origin of my name. So my name is Van Horne, my maiden name. And it's a Dutch name. And for the longest I was told, you know, it's your grandfather's name. And he came over and was working on Panama Canal. And he landed in Jamaica, and that's how you have Van Horne. Then one day, I decided to do the ancestry test.
Pawntra Shadab:Oh cool.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:And I looked, and I did the whole test. And I was like you guys, do you know that our name is a slave name? It's not actually... I showed it to them and they're like, Oh, I guess it's just something we were told that makes sense, though. And it was just kind of like this thing that they they just acknowledged and kind of just went with it. I'm like, you guys for years. We were told like, oh, we're Dutch, Jamaican and blah, blah. And it's like, No, you, your name is actually the slaves name is a slave name. I don't know, maybe then it was just so part of our family history. It was said so many times that after a while lost meaning that when I said that, it was just kind of like, Yeah, that makes sense. What do you want for dinner? And I'm just gonna like, what what you guys like, my whole identity is messed up, right now. It's, of course, my name is just I remember one time I signed up for um, you know, when you had an advisor in college to go get your pick your classes and do all that?
Patrick Brochu:Yeah, yeah.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:So I worked for the Communication Department. My name is Staceyann Van Horne. I worked there for months and months. And I sign up on paper, and I get a call from my advisor who's also in the Communication Department and he's like, Oh, I'm running late. I won't be there for another 20 minutes. I'm like, Okay, sure. I'm here. Anyway, he goes, see me do anything. And I'm like, No, I'm working. So I get there. You know, I'm working. He comes in and he calls me to say he's there and girl. And guy. Literally. My office is across the hall from his and he calls me and I kind of just like, lean over and look out the door and he looks at me and I look at him and I'm like, Why are you calling me and he goes, I was expecting this little blonde white girl to come in. I didn't know you were Staceyann Van Horne. And I'm just kind of like, Wow, I've been here and you had no idea what my name is like. And now married name Doria, forget it. Like it's when I walk into places when I tell you people's faces. There's times when they're like Staceyann? I'm like hey, I'm Stacey. And they look at me and they correct me, Staceyann I'm like, still the same one standing here waiting for you to talk to me.
Patrick Brochu:Staceyann. Staceyann Van Horne-Doria. CMP.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Why Patrick?
Pawntra Shadab:That's spicier than paprika. That's a good story.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:See, that's what happens when you go second.
Patrick Brochu:So right before we totally wrap up for the day, one extra little thing. Please everybody continue to email in at wellseasonededucation@gmail.com once again, it's wellseasonededucation@gmail.com. We will put that in the notes from today's podcast. We have been getting feedback from you guys. Nobody actually is asking a question or giving us something to talk about. You guys are just saying that you love the show. Fallon Hector actually said, Hey, I love the podcast, but I would like it to be a little bit longer and today's episode, unintentionally was longer.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Oh, okay okay!
Patrick Brochu:So there you go. Yeah, your wish is our command. Thank you guys so much for communicating with us. Keep it up. You know, we would love to hear questions or feedback or if there's some crazy topic that you want us to talk about, we're happy to talk about it as long as it doesn't get us fired from our day jobs and we're good to go. That's all our time for today. Thank you guys very much for tuning in. As always.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Thank you Pawntra for coming on our little podcast.
Pawntra Shadab:Alright. Thank you.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Speak to you soon.
Pawntra Shadab:Bye.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:All right. Bye.
Patrick Brochu:And I'm Patrick.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:And I'm Stacey thinking about my name like Patrick always does.
Patrick Brochu:Ayayay. And that's another episode of Well Seasoned the Podcast. Until next time,
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Peace out Cub Scouts.
Patrick Brochu:Later.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria:Season your food. Wash your chicken. Episode produced by Patrick Brochu and Staceyann Van Horne-Doria. Sound editing by Rocci Doria and song by Dr. Delight. I gotta send out meeting requests. Oh I gotta pee first. Bye. Put that in the Dropbox right now. Thanks. Bye. You have to actually stop it though, cuz, you know, you do. Oh my god.