GAIN THE PASSION
GAIN THE PASSION
Geoffrey Klein - Successful Business Secrets: Impactful Story Telling and Branding Techniques for Social Media & Beyond
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Geoffrey Klein is a TEDx Speaker, Adjunct Professor & Content Producer. He is passionate about helping people communicate more effectively through the power of story and visual communication.
Geoffrey’s career over the last 25 years has been about helping connect the right message to the right audience for the greatest impact. His experience spans from being legally trained to working for Seth Godin to working on major motion pictures at Paramount Pictures and MGM Studios.
Geoffrey has presented at TEDx LehighRiver, has guest lectured at Manchester Metropolitan University (UK), Drexel University, Hussian College and Temple University. As well, he has presented programs on The Science of Story at WeWork, CareersPHL, Intelligent Office, City-Coho, and the Small Business Expo.
In addition to running a content marketing agency, Geoffrey is an adjunct professor at Temple University’s School Of Media And Communication.
Learn more and connect with Geoffrey Klein:
Website: https://ggklein.com/
TEDx Talk: https://youtu.be/2G82rzzO3qs
Nine Dots Media: https://ninedotsmedia.com/
Connect the Dots Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/connect-the-dots/id1289008291
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ggklein/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ggklein
Find out more about GAIN THE PASSION Coaching
https://www.gainthepassion.com
Access past episodes and more of the GAIN THE PASSION Podcast
https://www.gainthepassionpodcast.com
Voiceover 00:00:00 Welcome to GAIN THE PASSION with hosts, Todd Foster, Alyssa Stanley, and Kelley Skar.
Kelley 00:00:11 Hey, Jeffrey, thank you so much love for you. Just to give us a Cole's Notes version of, of who you are. Maybe a quick introduction and then we can start the conversation from there.
Geoffrey 00:00:19 I refer to myself as the story guy, uh, because that's what I'm obsessed with from when I was a little kid to now, but my goal is to help others tell their story more effectively. You know, I believe that the power of story is what really helps us communicate and connect. So in a business perspective, you know, that's what we're trying to do. You're trying to connect to your audience so that they understand your value and then may wanna, you know, engage with you. And to me, the most effective way to do that is through visual content. So we focus on video and animation and tell the story in a way that's gonna capture people's attention, um, and get them to take that action to reach out.
Kelley 00:00:57 That's awesome. I, you know, it's, I, I've just finished watching your, your TED Talk and, and Oh, thanks. Something that kind of, yeah, it was amazing actually. Um, something just kind of popped up in my head. Uh, it's, it's, it's something that I, that I typically recognize when I'm in the moment, but something that I don't usually think about afterwards. And that is when, you know, when we're with a group of people, um, you know, I, I noticed that every time someone talks, it's always a story. You know, I've got this story about this thing, or Oh yeah, I've got this story about that thing. Right. It, it, it's just, it's an interesting dynamic to me that, you know, especially in our friend group, it's, it's, it is all about storytelling. And I remember in your Ted Talk you had talked about, um, story storytelling being, you know, all the way back in, in, uh, you know, ancient times with, uh, you know, three 50 BC and even before that when, you know, writings on the walls and stuff like that. Where did you, like, where did this whole thing start with you in terms of utilizing story for marketing and, and, uh, you know, helping people to build their business and, and ultimately their story?
Geoffrey 00:02:06 Yeah, my, my background is somewhat, um, diverse. You know, I went to law school, you know, I worked in the film industry, I worked in real estate. So all those things, um, helped shape kind of my perspective on things. Uh, but I was kind of an story before I actually knew that that's what it was. And I, from a, a very young kid, uh, the joke was, I love, I'm a movie fanatic. I love movies. I would watch as many movies as I could, and my parents like to joke that I would come back from a movie and it would take me as much time to tell them about the movie as it would to go watch the movie. Um, I like to share all the details and every little bit, uh, and they would joke, I would do that about my day. Don't ask me how my day was.
Geoffrey 00:02:46 Cause an hour and a half later I'll still be telling you about, uh, the little nits that happened. But I think one of the reasons I find those that story so powerful is because you talk about your friend group, it's about being relatable to people. Uh, we, we all wanna feel like we belong. And so I think it's that sense of, oh yeah, I've had that similar experience, or Oh yeah, I understand that emotion that you, you went through and, and that relatability is what connects us. And for me, when I started, um, in kind of marketing, you know, I've had the experience of, you know, uh, in the film industry of where you're crafting these stories. And, you know, my first job in the film industry was in the story department, uh, where I was reading a lot of not so great stories in the form of scripts.
Geoffrey 00:03:28 Um, but when you read something good, you knew, and so I started to think about that as a writer, cuz I have an interest in writing was what makes a good story. And so I think that's where it started, was just generally thinking about the principles of what makes a compelling story or what are the elements that need to be in. And then as I went from there and um, decided to get into marketing, I was like, oh, marketing's the perfect fit between my kind of right brain and my left brain. It's about how you take that creative side and then use it to help people to their business goals. And so it, it was a natural fit from the beginning in terms of the way I thought about it. And then I was fortunate I worked for a brand marketing agency and the idea of what brand is brand is what makes you different.
Geoffrey 00:04:09 It's why people buy from you. And so that brand story was always really important. And I kinda drank the Kool-Aid and just went from there thinking, yeah, that's where it's, to me that's, that's the way that we communicate as human beings and why when we get to the business context, do we seem to shift a bit and start talking about, you know, the facts and figures and data. Um, and I, that that was kind of when I, when I learned about kind of some of the science behind it and then, you know, in terms of how our brains work, I was like, well, of course. And so telling stories is not just, you know, from forever in terms of the history of how we communicate, but as an individual person and as a business person, we all tell stories both from when we're little kids and we still tell stories when we're in social context. And my question is, well, but why do we stop that when it's a business context? And both in networking and things like that. But then formally when you're thinking about advertising and marketing, uh, using the, the narrative is the, to me, the shortest distance from, from what your brand stands for and what value you represent and your end customer or client that you're trying to, you know, connect with.
Kelley 00:05:18 What's the connection point between, um, you know, telling the story, the brand telling the story, and the customer actually purchasing the product? Is it emotion? Because, you know, most people are emo like most humans are emotional animals. They make emotional decisions, especially when they're purchasing something. It's a, an, a lot of times it's an emotional decision. Is it that dot right there? You're connecting emotion to that actual buying process.
Geoffrey 00:05:41 That's a big part of it. And I'm a huge fan of Simon Sinek and his, you know, kinda thesis start with why both the book and his amazing Ted talk. And so in his, in his, what he talks about is like, we make those decisions emotionally. Yeah, that's what we make decisions, but then you need need to back them up with the facts and figures. So I, one of the things I always try and I've gotten better at communicating is that I'm not saying those facts and figures aren't important and you should ignore them. The real, uh, challenge is to combined those important facts and figures into the narrative so that they're, because the telling of the story is the way you get people's attention. And that's, I think why it's really important is because there's so much information these days. I, i I speak about info.
Geoffrey 00:06:25 And so it's about, well, how do you cut through that? How do you grab someone's attention when our attention spans are going down and down and down? And so a story enables to do that because of just the way that we're hardwired. So when someone says, Hey, lemme tell you a story, all of a sudden there's a rising cortisol and you start to pay attention. And so once, that's why you have to have a really good hook. Once you have the hook, then you need to then take them along the journey and people like to be along the journey. But all that is based on the fact that the story I'm telling matters to you. And so I can have a great story and it could be compelling from a entertainment value, but as a, in the business context, if it's not answering some pain or problem that you have, then it's not gonna be effective in connecting those dots.
Geoffrey 00:07:08 So one of the things I I share a lot is that you need to always be thinking about your audience. And that's why I think it's much more important to talk, to start your story with what matters to your audience and then address that pain or problem with your solution with what your company can do. Because if you start with your solution or how great you are or all these things, oh, we won this award, or, which a lot of businesses seem to tend to, to do, I don't care. I I like to say that nobody cares about what you can do. And businesses go, what do you mean? Of course they care. Nobody cares about what you can do. They only care about what you can do for them. And, and it's, you know, it's one of the things that businesses who are successful, I think learn early on.
Geoffrey 00:07:51 It's not to say that your value is, there's no value in what you do. Of course there is, but it's only valuable in a sense of how you help people. And so I think that's the context of which businesses successful business have to think about. You know, we love our product, we think it's amazing. We think our service is wonderful, and the reasons why you should care is because we can help you move further along in, in the ways that you wanna move further. What is like the perfect length for a story as a trained lawyer? You know, it depends. Uh, but it depends very, very, there is a, uh, a way to get to that answer and it's from what I developed the 11th commandment. And so I said, if you don't remember anything from this podcast, remember the 11th command, which is know the audience.
Geoffrey 00:08:31 So I was talking about audience and audience, audience. So the reason it depends is because if your audience, once you identify them and you know, oh, they liked long form content, then that will be the type of content you send. I also think it's the context. So meaning if someone's at the top of the funnel and they're just becoming aware of you, they're not gonna give you as much attention and therefore your, uh, content has to be shorter. As they kind of go down that funnel, they're getting closer to potentially engaging you and buying your product or service, then you can extend that story cause they wanna know more. So I think it, it does really matter where that person, where that you, where you find them in terms of the length of your story. Now there are statistics saying that stories, stories and videos that are about two minutes and under perform the best.
Geoffrey 00:09:19 Um, but there are, there are people who argue, no, I know I have long form content about how our product works or how our service works that are really compelling, but usually what I find is that that's because people have already gotten along and know enough about you. So again, we're overloaded with information and we have short tensions. We need that hook. So we need to do something very quickly. Some people say, you know, you got seven seconds, eight seconds to, to get our attention. And so if you fail to do it, even within that piece of content in the very beginning to grab someone, and then they'll just, you know, never see the rest of it. So there is a, I think a process on which you start off, get them and then build from there.
Kelley 00:10:02 You said something about, um, uh, you know, brands, uh, making the story about them and I, I, I just, I can't help but think that real estate agents are notoriously bad for this, just notorious. And I'm a real estate agent, so full disclosure.
Geoffrey 00:10:16 I say lawyers aren't particularly good either.
Kelley 00:10:18 So, uh, yeah, it's, you know, look at me, look at me, look at my awards, look at how good I am. And, and nobody, like you said, nobody cares about any of that stuff. I wanna know whether you can do the job or not.
Geoffrey 00:10:27 I think those things, again, it's, they're not, um, things you should ignore. They're just not what you lead with. You know, at some point when someone gets further along, they're gonna wanna know, oh, you've won a bunch of awards. Oh, you have the credentials, but only after they have a reason to, to speak to you in the first place and you puffing yourself up in the beginning is not, I think, the best approach for engagement, which is just not the way to start it. Now your second question was about what do you do if you're not very good at telling stories? Is that what, or about how you talk consistent story?
Todd 00:10:56 Yeah, yeah. You think you're great at telling stories and your audience is going, what's the point?
Geoffrey 00:11:03 Well, so I would say that, you know, I'm a creative strategist, you know, so for me it's about the plan, you know, the strategy. So when I work with clients to develop an animate video as an example, you know, we have to figure out what's the story we're gonna tell based on who our audience is. And so it's not just about rambling cause that would not, you know, be, so part of what I bring as a producer is to help simplify and clarify the message. So a lot of businesses think everything about them as important. They try and jam everything into their little, you know, one minute video. I'm like, you can't listen again. It's not the only instance in which you hope to have, you know, some interaction with your potential client. It's a starting point. It's, so I think it's about, okay, what's the story we're gonna tell right now?
Geoffrey 00:11:53 Now? And sometimes you might only have 30 seconds. So I guess it's about crafting that. And, and well before we started the podcast, we're talking about, you know, the three act structure, beginning, middle, and end. And I think that still makes sense. And so there is a, an art and a science to how you craft that, thankfully. So that's why I have a job. Cause I can help people. Not everyone, it doesn't come naturally, even though we all resonate with stories that have that arc and have that journey. Um, but it's about simplifying it. And, and I created this the story pad, which is a kind of tool that businesses can use, uh, to structure the beginning, middle end. So that's from a a and I'm not talking about a dinner party and whether that's a good story or not. And, and, but it's still, I think, holds true that you need to have sort of the hook to kick people in and then you share a bit more.
Geoffrey 00:12:41 And then there's a resolution. The punchline at the end, um, for me, the story pad, which is p a d is the acronym for the beginning, middle, and end. So you have the P which I refer to earlier, the pain or the problem of your audience. You start there cause that's gonna capture their attention. And we were talking, I actually was saying lawyers are bad at it. Personal injury lawyers are pretty good at it. Yes they are. Um, because what, have you been injured in an accident? If you haven't been injured accident, no move on. Which means you're not wasting your time talking to someone who's not your potential audience. And if you have been in an accident, oh, sugar, let me listen cause now you're speaking, right? So yeah, I've been in accident, I've got bills and I can't work, and blah blah. And then the a is the answer or the solution to that problem.
Geoffrey 00:13:28 So then you say, have you been injured an accident? Are we at the law firm of Kelley And Todd can help you, you know, to get compensation. And then the last part is the D which a lot of people, that's where they stop. It's like, okay, you have a problem, we have the answer, you have a problem, we have an answer. And it's, it's good. But I think there's the d which is the difference it makes in your life or your business is really important. So it's like, okay, you've been injury an accent. We can help you with our legal services and when we help you, your life will be better because you'll have money, have compensation, feel, you know, whole again, whatever it may be. And again, I apply this to all, gimme an industry I can apply it to. Um, and, and part of it's because we keep it simple.
Geoffrey 00:14:13 Uh, I think one of the challenges that people when they're telling stories is they overcomplicate things. And what I tell people what I do, I'm like, yeah, there's the, the, the um, term we use is explainer video, you know, which has gotten some bad press in terms of, cause it's kind of, there's some people doing it poorly. But the idea behind it is really good, which is you need to help explain your value to someone. And what I say is the more complicated it is is great for me because my job is to, I need to be able to, I need to be able to strip it down to its essence to the core, the message in a clear way that anyone can understand it. Oh, and I think even with technical things, okay, don't start there. There is always gonna be a bigger, high level, uh, solution that you're trying to solve. You know, and may, there may be minutiae that you get into once you get there, but in the first instance, for sure you need, if you're talking about how you help people, what their problem is, this is a solution and this is the impact or the difference it's gonna make. That to me is the way you tell a story, at least in the, in the business context. Um, and that's what I do.
Todd 00:15:21 You brought up that business people have more difficulties telling a story in their business. And so the personal life, do you have a re a reason why? Uh, because I believe the story is really important. I also think the ending could be a close, either a soft close or hard close. And many people don't like the word no. And so is that something that's keeping people from telling the stories or what is it?
Geoffrey 00:15:45 I I think it's a couple things. I think one, there's no pressure when you're at a party to tell the story in like, you know, your livelihood isn't dependent on it. So I think there's something about the sales process that just puts us in a different mindset unnecessarily. Sure. Um, and, and, and the idea that, I don't wanna say that business people are terrible at telling stories. There's some people who are fantastic, um, and, and, and even people who are good, they, you know, I work with people who, who are good storytellers and I help them craft it. So I I it's not, it's not their natural way of being, especially people who aren't in a kind of creative business. So if you're in a more technical business, um, or in a business that you're not used to writing stories, you know, you're not used to, uh, it may be more of a challenge, but I think everyone can help craft.
Speaker 3 00:16:33 Cause if you are passionate about what you're doing, then it becomes really easy, um, to showcase that. And it's, it's one of those things I like to work with people who love, love what they do. Um, but I think the reason that we're not as comfortable about doing it in the business context is cause we're worried it's gonna fail. Like in a way that if we tell a story to party and, and it kind of, you know, lead balloon, okay, you'll be a little embarrassed and then you'll move on. Um, I think there's just the construct of like, okay, this is the sales. And if we don't ask for the, you know, if we either people and people generally are like afraid of rejection. So I think there's an element of that. Um, and then I think about they just don't, they're not oriented to think about business in that way.
Geoffrey 00:17:19 Business, again, generalizing to the convention is about facts and figures in the bottom line and things like that that aren't necessarily natural places that people go to telling a story. Um, but I think people, you think about annual ports, you know, if I tell you what do you think of annual reports being, you know, not necessarily like riveting, you know, you're not gonna go watch a TV show about the annual report. Um, but some organizations I've found have found ways, whether it's visual, you know, through the, the, the visuals that they use in their annual reports, the way that they're described. Uh, and I've, I've seen people, I've, I actually was working on a company where we're gonna try and do an animate video for the annual report, um, you know, top level and you get into some of the details. Um, you know, one of is that part of telling story helps make the complicated simple and makes the less interesting, more interesting, I don't wanna say not interesting, um, by the nature of the fact that, you know, visual communication for sure, all the studies, all the statistics show that that's how, that's, that's the kind of content we like.
Geoffrey 00:18:26 And, you know, people go, well, what about the words? I love words. You know, I'm a writer and so all my stories start with, well, what's the script? You know, what's the message? What's, what's the content of and the copy that we wanna share? So I don't wanna, you know, say that doesn't matter. It's that one two punch of, you know, powerful words and powerful visuals.
Kelley 00:18:45 I'm curious what, what, what would be, what, what's one kind of, uh, story brand, um, ad you know, throughout your career that really kind of sticks out where it's, it's done really, really well. And on the flip side, uh, what's one that was really, really poorly done, or really, really bad?
Geoffrey 00:19:03 So there are some classic ones that people talk about. And um, if you look at the series of Budweiser and the kind of, um, thoroughbred in that story, the kind of rural, you know, I think they did a good job in being consistent even through the years. Now they've done a lot of other fun stuff along the way, but that kinda, there's, there's a series that they've done in Super Bowl ads with, you know, the, um, and they've done over the last couple years with the, the puppy, you know, and so the, the relationship, you know, oh God, I mean, we all know puppy videos is, is sells and so <laugh>, um, I think they've, they've done it in a way that has been effective. Um, usually I find the ones that are effective are the ones that have a really clear brand. So I think what it is, you know, Rolex has been pretty consistent, has a very strong perspective on who they are and what they do.
Geoffrey 00:19:51 Um, Nike, it's hard not to mention Nike as a, as a brand that has really, uh, done a good job of and telling their story and, you know, just do it as a simple exa, I mean, it's so simple, so brilliant, so short, and everyone knows what that means. Um, and they've reinforced it and reinforced it across different sports and different products. Um, and I think about they did one, um, where they, the editing was crazy when they edited all these different sports together that overlapped, uh, that was really technically really interesting. But it was, again, showing the kind of life of a champion and, and, and the things that Nike stands for beyond, and remember, it was just a shoe brand. Um, but interestingly enough about Nike is that, so they had, I I think he's still there. They have someone who's in the role of Chief Storytelling officer, um, because they recognize the importance of story as a brand very early on.
Geoffrey 00:20:52 Uh, apple again is, you know, another classic example. People always talk about the 1984 ad. Um, that campaign wasn't the one that blew me away. I, I think the think different one with all those, you know, it would say, think different. You have a picture of Einstein and that was it. You know, it was like they used these famous icons who, you know their story in the way you're saying, well, tiger Woods, he's, he represents his, he's on good job of, of creating his own brand. Um, and so I think, again, when you think of the Tiger Woods and you see that story unfold, you and we've all been along at, even if you're not a huge golf, you know, enthusiast, everyone knows Tiger Woods is, you know, how the acceleration that he is had in in his career and how over so long, um, in a silhouette.
Geoffrey 00:21:40 I think Apple did such a good job of this different ads in that it just, the simplicity of using built in, um, stories in the, in the community of, of knowledge really that we all had. So that we see Pablo Picasso, we see Einstein, we know we don't need, you don't need to write anything, PEB, Picasso think different, you know, immediately. And that's always been the brand of Apple, which is to think differently, you know, quo. Um, and so I think they've reflected that consistently in la. And thing is, that doesn't mean you have the same ad forever, um, because that would get a little boring. Um, I think what it does is it you have that, you know, canvas that you can paint a bunch of different pieces of art that are in the same genre, the same theme, and continue to tell that same story, um, whatever your brand.
Geoffrey 00:22:35 So I think part of the reason of what makes a good there, you know, you could pick out individual ads, but I look at it from more of like the consistency. Cause I believe that to be a, a successful brand, there needs to be consistency over time. Um, and if you have a really strong brand, it should remain relatively the same. You may have new products, you may have new services, but who you are, what you represent, your brand personality, all those kinds of things you get to know. Rolex has a really strong one. You think of Ritz Carlton, you know what that means. You know, Nike, you know what that means, apple. So it's about the brand value and wanting to belong to that and wanting to connect with that. And then how do they do that By telling the stories in lots of different ways. Um, but they're always consistently sharing the things that matter to those that care about that brand.
Voiceover 00:23:26 If you are enjoying this episode, please leave a five star review at your favorite podcast provider.
Todd 00:23:33 I'd like to go back to what you just said about a brand who could be luxurious and then goes a different route with it. So there's one that popped in my head when you're talking about that and it's in your neighborhood there. It's Stephen Singer. So you have the Stephen Singer, and then you have the, of course, if anyone hasn't heard anything on the radio dresser or satellite, it's I hate Steven singer.com. Why does that work for them when most times that would be a complete logistical nightmare where you're going downhill quickly.
Geoffrey 00:24:02 Yeah, and I know some of the people behind that. Um, and I think it's brilliant. Um, but it wouldn't work for everybody. I, I think there's something about, um, that they've built that story over time. One, it's, it captures your attention immediately. So I think there is an element of like that shock factor, oh my God, I hate Susan Singer. Why? Like, so there, there's an intrigue there that is I think is important. Um, you know, if you said, I hate, you know, Chevrolet, it may not quite work. Um, but the idea of people hating Stephen because they're, people are buying jewelry for the wine, you know, cuz I have to buy this stuff because to make my significant other happy, um, they, they just, there's also the element of of repetition. I mean, you know, one of the things about, uh, con so, and hence somewhat consistency, but the frequency with which they stuck with that message.
Geoffrey 00:24:59 I hate Steven Stinger. So that eventually if you, if you weren't interested in jewelry, you might never get beyond that. Um, and, and when I first saw, I was like, I don't even know what that, you know, I thought it was literally some, when I first saw it on Billboard, I thought it was someone who had, like, had been scorned by Stephen Singer and was taking out a personal ad to vendetta against them. Um, but he didn't even said that, that story. I was intrigued by the story. And, and so it had a good hook. I think that it worked well cause it had a good hook. And then once you learn the story, it, uh, you, when you hear the punchline, it, it resonates and you go, oh, you know, now I get it. Um, so yeah, it, it's like I hate Tiffany's would never work as an example. Uh, it just, again, it would be, I think, disconnected to kind of the refined, uh, element of how they present themselves. Whereas Stephen Singer, it, it's, it's not that their jewelry, they find jewelry, but it's their, their brand personality is very different. And so it enables them to do things that are kind of a little more outside the box than a Tiffany might or Cartier or one of these luxury brands might do.
Kelley 00:26:08 What's more important in your mind, um, in, you know, in starting with this and, and maybe, maybe I've got the answer in my head. Uh, I don't know, I'm gonna ask the question. So what's more important is that the brand or the story and I is, is does the story help to elevate the brand? Like we, you were talking about Think different right now. Apple was, uh, you know, before that a well-recognized brand, you know, probaby arguably probably the 84 ad really kind of blew them up, right? And so when they come out in, you know, the, the early nineties with Think Different, everybody knew who Apple was. So it was very recognizable. If you were an unrecognizable brand, nobody knows who you are. How do you, how do you tell that story to actually show who the brand is and, and am I making sense? Does that make sense?
Geoffrey 00:26:54 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Uh, to me it's, it's a kind of three step process. Who are you as a organization, as a business? Because if you don't have clarity on that, then you're not gonna know any story to tell, you know? So I think understanding what is it that makes you different than other people? The why of your business is really important. You know, what, not just what you do. And again, apple did that very well and has done that from the beginning when they were unknown through to, you know, being the, the behemoth that they are. So it's about figuring out who you are, what your lane is, what your, you know, how you're gonna represent yourself. And then crafting the stories, actually, sorry, step two is knowing your audience. So now you have, you know, because you can't be everything to everyone and you shouldn't be, you know, the good part about digital advertisers can now target.
Geoffrey 00:27:41 So assuming there is a market for your product or service, you need to then find out about that audience and that customer, what matters to them. And then with that information of who you are and who they are, then you can start to think about the stories that you're gonna tell that will matter to them and showcase how you help them. So I think that's the kind of combination of how, how it goes. And so I think a lot, you know, I, I've done brand strategies. I used to work for a certified brand strategist and um, a lot of these very successful companies spent time, energy, investment in their brand. And we look at some of these big ones, and I love, I love the people who go, oh my god, apple has, you know, unlimited funds and Amazon, and, you know, Google, they all started in the garage and I wrote a blog about Garage brands.
Geoffrey 00:28:32 And so the, the excuse that, well, we can't develop our brand because we don't have any money. It, it just takes, it's more about time and than, than anything else. And getting that clarity, having an, you know, cause if you're gonna start a business, you wanna know why you're starting a business. The ethos behind it, your purpose, those things are gonna carry you through different pivots in the market. But even pivots in, in maybe the products you, you do. Um, when people talk about brand, they often talk about its you know, they're, which represents innovation forever, but they operate in like five, six different industries. But across all of those different industries and products and services, their brand is about innovation. And so they're consistently, and so that's the thing, once you have clarity on that brand, then the stories that you tell re you know, express it. I think that's the way I would look at it. You first, you clarify your brand and then the story is how you express it to others, um, by sprinkling in maybe even more than sprinkling in the understanding of what matters to them.
Todd 00:29:41 When you talk about brand, you're not just talking about companies, right? You're talking about individuals. Because each one of us are our own brand.
Geoffrey 00:29:48 Hundred percent and, and personal. And I wanna make another distinction, I thinks kinda important, the difference. Cause people use the word brand and, and it means different things to different people. Um, brand for me and for the people that I've uh, learned this from is about your distinction. You know, what that why. So what makes you different than what's behind door number two, as opposed to branding, which your logo, your colors, your, you know, all those things that are an expression of your brand, you know, so you know your brand. If you are the friendly brand, then all these other things are, should be aligned with the being the friendly brand. Uh, and brand is also, um, equally applied now to personal brands. There's, there's, you talk about influencers and, and, and the things that, you know, but, and they also, I love, you know, think about Apple and Tesla, uh, and, and Amazon, they talk about the fact that the Elon Musk has more followers on social than Tesla does, as those Jeff Bezos.
Geoffrey 00:30:52 Um, so that the personal brands, especially of big companies, has become important. Um, and then again, with a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of, um, companies now, yes, there's, there's, you can build a whole industry on your brand, you know, by developing a personal brand. Uh, and it's really important. I think it's important regardless if you're in the company or not, like if you're the head of the company or not. So even if you're an employee, you should still be thinking about how you represent yourself. What, what do you care about? So that, and I think, you know, we do it in certain ways, maybe not officially, you know, if you know, oh wait, Todd, you know, loves to have funky glasses and, and is, you know, a little as a hip dresser, um, I'm sure these things are true. Um, you know, you get, you, you, by not focusing on what your brand is, you're, you're leaving it to be determined.
Geoffrey 00:31:44 Um, you know, uh, people know I am obsessed with purple. So that, that's part of my personal brand. It happens to be my brand colors. But it's, I think by not thinking about what you stand for, you're missing the opportunity to craft other ways to reinforce either what your company is about or and what you're about. And making, again, making you're trying to give people compelling reason to do business with you. That's what, that's another definition of brand I really like. It's, it's the compelling reason that people decide they wanna do business with you as opposed to one of your competitors and all the other stuff about it is reinforcement. You know, all the stories you tell are to reinforce that reason why someone wants to work with you versus somebody else.
Kelley 00:32:30 Jeffrey, why don't you, uh, go ahead and tell our listeners where they can, where they can find you on social, online, all that kind of stuff.
Geoffrey 00:32:35 If you're interested in, in, in speaking to me or learning more about what I do, there's two places, uh, to go. One is my company website, which is Nines Media, nine spelled out nines media.com, uh, which has all my social links and any other way you might wanna get in touch with me, media is generally the social use. And then I'm also keynote speaker and, and a presenter, my initials gig klein.com. And again, all the social related to that is how you'd find out about how I share on the topics. If you have some reason you wanna, uh, have someone present and, and share some of the value that I, I like to bring,
Kelley 00:33:12 People are so confused about the difference between brand and branding. I hear this all the time in, in, uh, my coaching business and, you know, um, agents are like, well, you know, now I've gotta rebrand or, you know, I've, I've got a branding issue. I've, you know, the, the the distinction like you, you just, you, you clearly laid it out. You know, brand is who you are, what you're about, your story branding is your colors, your logo, and how that ties into the brand, right? What do you think there's such a, a, a, it's, it's just so misunderstood. People refer to their brand as, as their colors, their logo and, and their, their brand statement.
Geoffrey 00:33:48 Uh, I'm gonna blame part of it on the shorter attention spans of people. They just don't, they don't stay along. Well, it's, it's just, you know, we're like, okay, whatever, you know, brand branding, like, I need a new logo. Uh, so I think it's, I don't wanna say laziness, uh, I think it's more, you know, just being uninformed. Um, people, it's not something people talk about that much and when they talk about it, it's not their expertise. So therefore, unless they're talking to someone who understands it at that level, they're, they're not interested in. And, and usually I'll tell you, most people don't have a clear idea of what their brand is. That's why they don't know the distinction. Cause they've never taken the time to think about their brand in that way, and therefore their brand is their logo, their colors, and all the rest of it.
Geoffrey 00:34:33 So I think the lack of distinction is because people have not taken the time to develop a brand. And, and I'll just say wanna rebrand really means rebranding. So, um, but, but, but re that's what rebrand means. No one's saying rebrand and think of a new way to think about why you do what you do. And they're talking about their logo and stuff, refreshing the brand and things like that. They're talking about the branding. Um, but again, uh, i, I don't mind it cuz it, it makes me be able to share something with people. Um, and hopefully, um, you know, there are lots of things I don't know about a lot of things. Um, and so the things that I learn, I try and share with others, and I think that's just, you know, what, what, what people, you know, I love that about learning. You learn all the time. And I think with marketing, with brand and story, it's like some of these things we don't know what we don't know. And part of being on, on, um, podcasts like this is for me to learn and to share and then keeps things engaging.
Todd 00:35:38 And a person could have more than one brand, correct? Because you have, uh, two brands, at least you have the nine dots, you have your speaking.
Geoffrey 00:35:44 I think people can have more than one brand if they're very distinct industries. So I was using the example of GD having all these things. You can have an umbrella brand and there are, there are people who, there are a lot of companies that have this, they have sub-brand. Um, and so the sub-brands, you may not know the, the parent brand. Um, so it's very possible. A good example is, uh, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Bimbo Bakeries, um, which is a huge baking. They're one of, I think they're the largest speaking brand in the world. It's something like a 13 billion brand. Now they don't have a Bimbo brand in the us. Like there's no, you can't go buy Bimbo Bimbo Brand Bread, but I'm sure you all heard of Thomas's English muffins and you've heard of Hostess. Well, they own those.
Geoffrey 00:36:38 So it, it's the Parrot brand Bimbo it is representing that collection of brands within it. So those sub-brand. Um, so I think it, it, you can have different brands for sure. Um, you wanna make sure they are, again, you don't wanna confuse people. And so as a trained lawyer, the little I remember about my intellectual property, you know, the thing about trademark is you just don't wanna confuse people. So as long as you're being clear about what you do, that's part of the, the issue. So I would say the goal is not to have multiple brands. And if you can fit things under your umbrella, great. But if you feel the need, you know, the per the, the speaking business that I have is, you know, Jeffrey Klein I felt was distinct enough that I separated it from the Nine Dots, you know, visual storytelling company.
Geoffrey 00:37:26 Um, strangely enough, they're very related. You know, what do I talk about the power of story and visual content and what do I do tells, you know, how people tell their story with visual content. So there's alignment for me. Um, but if I decided I wanted to be, um, I wanted to make, uh, bird cages, I'm making this up <laugh>, you know, bird feeders, uh, I might not put it onto the nine knots umbrella. I might start it, but that would be a new business. So is that sometimes it makes sense if you have a very separate business to have a separate brand if it's, but it's really, I think depending, it can work both ways, whether they have a sub-brands under a brand or a separate brand based on, uh, what that brand does. And, and there's a whole lot of business structure and things that probably go into it. Uh, I, I have two little companies, so it's pretty easy just to keep them separate.
Kelley 00:38:17 I understand that you've got a podcast. Maybe you could let, uh, our listeners know what, uh, what the show is all about, what the show name is, and, and we'll find it.
Geoffrey 00:38:24 Uh, sure. It's called Connect the Dots. No big surprise there with, uh, that's what I like try and do. Uh, the easiest way to find it is it's hosted on a, on a site, but, uh, nine dots podcast.com disease, I've done five seasons. And the, the reality when I first started, I was like, well, who's gonna wanna listen to me so I better go interview some people that are more interesting? So I really tried to find successful people and then hear their story of how they connected the dots, uh, that people can hopefully learn some. So I've had everyone from Grammy Award winners, academy Award winners, uh, a guy who won, I dunno if you saw the Netflix show Blown Away. He is a glassblowing champion. I had a, a, um, a bat World Back champion, prize winner, CEOs, uh, a real variety of people, uh, and uh, that who have great stories. And so it's about people hearing those great stories and then learning from them. And, uh, I really enjoyed doing it and I really enjoyed being a guest as well. So thanks so much.
Voiceover 00:39:29 Thanks for listening to GAIN THE PASSION. Please rate, review and share the podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button.
