[00:00:00] Josh DeTar: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking podcast. Today, I am joined by Laura Thompson who actually recently retired as the SVP/CIO for a very well-known Orange County's Credit Union. Laura, thank you so much for taking some time out of retirement, even to come and chat with me today.
[00:00:24] You're welcome, Josh. I'm happy to help. I don't have a really busy schedule these days, so happy to help.
[00:00:32] It's funny, I was I was thinking about this before the podcast started, and I was like, man you actually represent a little bit of an anomaly in the credit union space in that you actually got out of it. I don't know, you almost don't even hear of that. It's once we get sucked into the credit union industry, it's you never get to leave now,
[00:00:50] granted you, you put it in a little bit of tenure before you got out, but...
[00:00:55] Laura Thompson: [00:00:55] I did. I like to think I started young. I was actually in high school [00:01:00] when I started at a credit union and loved every bit of it and worked at two credit unions over 37 years. And I, I'd like to think I retired young too, but I love the industry and passionate, passionate about it. And although I'm retired, I still keep busy and occasionally connect with my, my peers and friends at the credit union.
[00:01:21] But I'll always have a place in my heart for credit unions and credit union associates.
[00:01:28] Josh DeTar: [00:01:28] Yeah it's, your passion is obviously something that really shines through and anybody who's spent two minutes talking to you can see that. And I think that's one of the reasons why I really was looking forward to having you on as a guest to the show. And I really want to talk to you today about just
[00:01:42] what that kind of experience in the credit union industry does to be able to give you such valuable insight into not only the history of how we used to do things, but then how you can take that history and apply that to what do we do today as a credit union in [00:02:00] 2021 to stay relevant and to stay viable and to stay competitive in a really rapidly evolving landscape?
[00:02:09] Your story doesn't even necessarily start with just you, right? Your family has a history in credit unions, right?
[00:02:16] Laura Thompson: [00:02:16] Yes then my grandfather worked at back then it was Nellis Federal Credit Union in Las Vegas. And he's the one that got me a job at the credit union there. When I was in high school, I started as a teller because I was, I didn't like working in the fast food industry. So he got me started and and I never really looked back and met my husband at a credit union,
[00:02:39] one of our daughters works at a credit union, so yeah, we are a credit union founder.
[00:02:43] Josh DeTar: [00:02:43] When, when you and I were talking before the show, we were talking about how having that kind of tenure can be both a blessing and a curse to a credit union. In that you have somebody who has such incredible tribal [00:03:00] knowledge of just the credit union industry, as well as, that specific credit union and "Okay how does our loan process work?
[00:03:10] I can tell you, 'cause my grandpa started it when he did the very first loan." I'm not saying that was the case, but having that kind of background is really helpful, but it can also potentially be a really big danger right? In that it can create those, for lack of a better term, sticks in the mud that say "This is how we've always done it.
[00:03:28] So this is how we're going to do it tomorrow as well." And I know that's something that you in particular were just really passionate about both personally and professionally, making sure that history became something to build off of rather than something that created a wall.
[00:03:45] So can you talk us through a little bit of just that philosophy and mindset and how that applies to to a credit union professional?
[00:03:52] Laura Thompson: [00:03:52] Yeah, I it's really important to continue to learn and grow and not get stuck in your ways, and [00:04:00] especially as a longterm associate. And it helps to have, first of all, peers around you that challenge you and not to feel threatened by it, but to learn from them and work with them. So the balance of fresh ideas and experience from somewhere else with the history of the credit union and bringing those together and we need each other.
[00:04:21] So it's not one or the other, it's balancing. And I, I grew up in the industry and thought I knew everything I needed to know for a little while, but the more I would learn about or go to conferences, say, for example, whether it was a credit union conference or something else where you're learning about different industries or different areas of the credit union, just to constantly do that,
[00:04:49] and I think it makes you realize you don't know what you don't know. And again, be open to learning and growing and constantly challenging yourself and changing, because you can't just [00:05:00] do the same thing over and over. And I think that helped me grow within my role and I had great leaders who were confident in me and my abilities to try new things and grow.
[00:05:11] And if I didn't always know how to do it, I would, I would figure out how, or I'd go online and learn, or it can, there's so many ways to learn now with-, without, paying a lot of money to attend expensive conferences or universities. There's podcasts. There's there's so many white papers.
[00:05:29] There's so many again videos. There's, it's, there's so many ways to learn. And I started to see the more I would learn from people that weren't like me or in another industry, the more I realized how he, how much I didn't know and how much more there was to learn. So I think it's important not to get stuck in your ways and think that you know everything just because you, you've processed loans for five years,
[00:05:54] doesn't mean that you know everything there is about it because it constantly changes with new [00:06:00] technology. And what consumers want changes too, so you just have to keep up and don't get set in your ways. That's really important.
[00:06:08] Josh DeTar: [00:06:08] So basically you were the Elon Musk before Elon Musk, right? Failure is acceptable, as long as you learn from it type of thing.
[00:06:16] Laura Thompson: [00:06:16] I can't even compared to him, but he just, again, just knowing that you don't know everything, so keep learning and growing. And I thought it was important too, I went to a lot of different credit union type conferences. But I think it's just as important to go to things that will challenge you and make you think differently beyond our industry.
[00:06:37] And I do respect co-op for putting on some conferences that really expanded beyond our industry to get you to think differently. I went to a Gartner conference that really challenged me a lot. And then just school, just schooling. I got my degree late in life and that really helped me to realize how much I didn't know and how much more there was to learn.
[00:06:59] So it [00:07:00] really was, I'll just say, you need to work hard in your credit union, but you also need to get out and by getting out, you don't have to physically go somewhere, but you need to expand your knowledge by reading, listening to webinars, podcasts, whatever it is. And sometimes challenge yourself by going outside the industry all together for new ideas.
[00:07:24] Josh DeTar: [00:07:24] I love that you said that, it's something that that honestly, I wish I had maybe had some more mentorship in that mindset earlier on. I look back on earlier versions of myself and I know I fell into some of those traps of "Hey, I'm an expert in this." Whatever it was, whether it was personal or professional.
[00:07:44] And then, two years later you'd realized there was somebody that was way smarter in that field, or was way better at that skill, or you knew how to do something different than you did there. And you're like, "Oh wow. Maybe I do still have some learning to do." And I think it took me a [00:08:00] really long time to get to a point where I even personally adopted that same methodology of "Look, the day I stop learning is the day I die.
[00:08:07] I should be learning right up until that point." How was that something that, as a leader in the credit union, you work to foster among the rest of the organization?
[00:08:15] Laura Thompson: [00:08:15] I would say as we started hiring the bigger we got in hiring different people and you always want to promote from within when you can, but sometimes sometimes you can't, or the best qualified is from another industry or outside. And I think sometimes it, it may cause some drama at first when you bring in a new person. But after a while, if you really stopped to look at the fresh ideas you get from somebody like that who won't always, again, think of it as "We've always done it this way or the, the,
[00:08:50] vendor says we have to do it this way." And sometimes people from another industry or another area will really, they just don't have those, that built [00:09:00] in, that knowledge of it has to be this way, or this is what they said, they really think differently or challenge and say "Why not? Or why can't we do this?"
[00:09:07] So trying to balance and build mutual respect between fresh ideas and again outside thinking versus insight thinking and credit union knowledge and history, but they're both equally important and that people shouldn't feel upset or threatened. And that's happened,
[00:09:26] that's happened sometimes. But you just have to work through it and explain the value of each side and the mutual respect and that we're, we all have the same end goal working on this together.
[00:09:40] Josh DeTar: [00:09:40] Yeah, it's a really good point. It's funny you make the comment. I was actually just talking to a good friend, Tracy Miller at Pioneer Credit Union, yesterday, and she made a comment about how they attribute some of the best ideas that have come into their credit union, come from a teller or somebody who's not a [00:10:00] part of the executive management team.
[00:10:02] And she said, "You want to know why?" She said, "A lot of times because we are sitting around the table executive team saying 'Why we can't do something?' Because this is in the way, or this red tape gets in the way, or there's this regulation." And she said, "Sometimes people who are removed from that are like 'No, why don't we just do it like this?'"
[00:10:20] And she's, they bring the idea to us and we go, "Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. We were getting too bogged down in some of the details." Fostering that type of of culture in an organization can also be really beneficial.
[00:10:32] Laura Thompson: [00:10:32] Definitely, like you said, you, you bring in someone who's not as close to it. And I think that's really helpful too. We tried to get, we would try to get a lot of our associates to go spend a day in a branch or listen in on the call center or go visit another team for a day in the life. Just to see what it's like.
[00:10:52] And it really developed a better respect for each other, as well as saying, "Wow, you know what, you [00:11:00] could try doing it this way." Or sharing ideas of how to make things better or maybe a branch person saying "We never use that. So why do you send that over?", " Oh, we'll stop sending it over."
[00:11:11] But then again, that sharing the perspectives and respecting the different views and being open to it, you have to be open to it, and not just because I said so. Be open to a new way of thinking, a new way of doing things and whether it's, again listening to tellers or bringing other people into your departments and cross training, just to give, get fresh new ideas or different perspectives.
[00:11:36] Josh DeTar: [00:11:36] Yeah. It has to be a two-way street, in that the culture of the credit union has to foster that. And you've got to have receptive ears on one end, and you've got to have people who are willing to speak up on the other end. And it doesn't matter whether it starts at the top of the bottom of the organization,
[00:11:54] the flow has got to be the same either way.
[00:11:57] Laura Thompson: [00:11:57] And we definitely have some, [00:12:00] as we brought in new people or people from one department to another, somebody may say "Why do you do this? Why do you do it this way? Or why is it set up this way?" And sometimes a department might be offended by that. And I think, I created this, like you're calling my baby ugly.
[00:12:17] This is my thing. And that's not the intent at all. The intent is just to know, "Is there, just, is there a way, a reason we do it this way? Could it be changed?" And it's just making sure you're on the same page and you all want the same results in the end, not "I'm not here to call your way bad or, or just asking if there's, if it's up for conversation or negotiation", but again, taking offense to it or not being offended.
[00:12:49] Josh DeTar: [00:12:49] Yeah. I I have to imagine that when you have a culture, like a credit union does, with with long-term employees who stay because the environment is amazing, [00:13:00] because the industry is incredible, because the opportunities to grow are there. You get that blessing and that curse of having somebody who is dedicated and passionate,
[00:13:10] but they also need to be willing to have those types of conversations and listen.
[00:13:14] Laura Thompson: [00:13:14] Definitely. And we were so lucky we had such a great culture and people were there because they loved the purpose behind the credit union and the mission and what we were all doing together. So most everyone was there for the same reason and and was nurturing and there to help members.
[00:13:33] And at the end of the day, very helpful and supportive culture, which was, it helped make things easier.
[00:13:40] Josh DeTar: [00:13:40] Yeah. I want to go back to a comment you made earlier though in that I think not just within a credit union, but pick any example, you get a large enough group of humans together and there's always going to be disagreement about something. And you do have, as the credit union grows and you get larger people, sometimes it is hard to not necessarily ruffle some [00:14:00] feathers or have somebody who's maybe not completely aligned to the mission and the vision and the values of the credit union.
[00:14:06] So over the years, what types of things did you see that that you guys did to ensure that the right people stuck around and were in the right roles?
[00:14:15] Laura Thompson: [00:14:15] Yeah, we did a lot of screening. I would have to say the interview process at the credit union, not only interview but testing and we would do interviews and also panel interviews. And depending on the role, some Q and A, some initial interviews with HR for culture fit,
[00:14:34] then you could interview with the hiring manager, and then maybe even a peer, some peer managers or vice presidents. So it was a tough process, but usually, by the time we made a decision and hired somebody, they were a good fit and we knew it. And I think it, it helped for the the applicant as well.
[00:14:54] And I think, in the beginning, they'd say, "Oh my gosh, this is a long process." But [00:15:00] once they were onboard realized why we did that. So a lot of time and effort spent on early screening and culture fit before, before we'd hire somebody. And it, I think it really paid off because most the people that we hired were a good fit and did stay and did connect,
[00:15:19] and we all had the, again, the same we were all on the same page, working towards the same goals.
[00:15:27] Josh DeTar: [00:15:27] Yeah. It's one of the things as as somebody who didn't necessarily grow up in the credit union industry, I've been a credit union member for years, but they didn't actually work in the organization. And as I actually came into the industry more and started actually servicing credit unions, one of the things that just has really stuck with me and is one quite impressive, but two, if I'm being totally honest, a little scary is you do see a lot of the promote from within the credit union industry, which is amazing.
[00:15:57] I absolutely love the idea of that, [00:16:00] when it works. Because it really truly does give people the ability to grow and you look at incredible success stories like yourself, or like you and I were just talking about before, Marguerite. And there's just, there's some really clear examples of people,
[00:16:15] that have tried really hard to better themselves, to better the organization and then have been given the opportunities to step into the right roles, to take advantage of that person's really dedicated passion and work ethic. But you also find sometimes that the adverse of that, which is, "This person's been with us for so long and we're really we don't want to lose them because we like them as a person they're really good.
[00:16:41] They're really passionate. We really probably should promote them, but we don't have anything other than this this marketing role open. Hey Tim, guess what? Now you're a head of marketing." Like "Tim, you know anything about marketing?" And they're like "Not a clue." And
[00:16:51] to what we were talking about earlier, sometimes fresh ideas and perspectives can be a good thing, but sometimes it's also just maybe not necessarily the right person for the right role. [00:17:00] So it sounds something that that the team there at Orange County's credit Union did was balance a little bit of both of actually promoting from within, when it made the right sense, but also sometimes actually bringing in folks from external.
[00:17:14] Laura Thompson: [00:17:14] Definitely. And doing some team building and a lot of things the credit union would do and we'd call it whole life learning. So beyond just learning your functions and service skills, you would learn more about personality profiles, like Myers-Briggs and those kinds of things, also strengths finders.
[00:17:34] So every associate would go through this PDP assessment to know just your strengths and personality profile and strength finders. And HR and learning and development would work very hard with managers to to use, to use those and make sure people were in the right positions. So part of it is personality, culture profile, and part of it is skills. And, maybe maybe you [00:18:00] don't like, as an MSR, you don't like speaking to members all the time.
[00:18:04] We created these roles for more specialty and say IRA knowledge or things like that, where you could go a different track if you, if you didn't love speaking to members. And so there's, we tried to do a lot of coaching and training around putting people in the right roles, but you're right.
[00:18:24] Sometimes it just doesn't work out. If if an associate just refuses to, to grow with a credit union there's only so much you can do. We want it to continue to grow and again the associates have to learn, grow and expand because the world's changing. You just look at how everything's changed with COVID.
[00:18:41] If, if people can't adjust and change with the times, it's, we coach and work with them, but sometimes it's just, it's not gonna work. But I think having people around a long time, as long as they're willing to grow, change, think differently, again grow and change with the credit union, you have [00:19:00] to evolve.
[00:19:01] You can't just keep everything the same. So they have to be willing to, and also willing to keep learning and Orange County's Credit Union had a lot of different resources and training opportunities for people, but they have to be involved too and take initiative to want to so it's, so it goes both ways.
[00:19:22] And then again, there are some that just don't want to, don't want to change, can't, and it, you can try them in different roles, but at the end of the day, it's not going to work out well. So you do need the mix and you need good leadership to help promote that and good L &D resources,
[00:19:40] and we have that, which was nice. It really helps so that you didn't have to say "I'm going to go down to the university and learn, and then I'll come back." The credit union helped you grow right within your role, or if you wanted to learn about others you could.
[00:19:57] Josh DeTar: [00:19:57] That's awesome. And I have to do it on one of [00:20:00] my favorite groups of people that I didn't know existed until I came into this industry is White Cup. The young credit union professionals group. And for those of you that aren't familiar, they're groups of younger folks who may be newer to the credit union industry, or maybe just newer to the credit union, who are really passionate about advancing their credit union, and doing so by becoming more advanced themselves and becoming more valuable players to that mission of the credit union.
[00:20:28] And so I love to attend a lot of their local events around here. And and I will say probably one of the number one questions that I hear at those events from the young credit union professionals, when they're talking to folks like yourself for it is, "I'm here. How do I get there?"
[00:20:44] like "How, what was your path like?" Maybe for for some of our White Cup friends that are hopefully listening any advice to share for them as they navigate their waters of growing their at a credit union.
[00:20:55] Laura Thompson: [00:20:55] Yeah, I it's I just look at it at my own children too. And [00:21:00] the way a lot of our younger associates at the credit union would start and want that path, they want to see a growth pattern or when can I, sometimes it's, "When can I make more money?" And sometimes it's, "I want to become this, an executive quickly."
[00:21:16] And making them feel like there is a path to that, a lot of times they want it now, and that's the hard part, but to see that you can learn and grow, even if you're not getting a promotion or more money, just the, the knowledge that you can gain and what you can do with that.
[00:21:34] And it will pay off some day, but it's, it may not be as fast as you want it to, but just keep going and accept new opportunities. One thing that helped me a lot is I just always said "Yes" if we were doing "Oh, we're doing this merger, do you want to help and be on the team?"," Yeah, that sounds
[00:21:53] Josh DeTar: [00:21:53] Yeah, sure.
[00:21:54] Laura Thompson: [00:21:54] We want to help too. We're going to do this merger." "Yeah, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to do this. I'm going to help." And, [00:22:00] I, that's how I learned so much. And at the time I wasn't really thinking about "I better get more pay for this. I'm doing more work." Or, you know "What's in it for me?"
[00:22:09] I just, it just sounded interesting and fun just to learn new areas. So I liked it. But and it will pay off in the end. And I think a lot of youth, again, they want to grow quickly. They want the money, the position, and to do more to, I think, and that's all good. And you should, you should want that,
[00:22:27] but it's, "Don't be frustrated if it doesn't happen as fast as you think it should." And so again, it's takes, take that knowledge as part of a reward for yourself, even if, again, it's not more money and a title just take it all in and it will pay off eventually.
[00:22:45] Josh DeTar: [00:22:45] I personally, I think that is such fantastic advice. I was at one of those events maybe two years ago, and I remember they were doing a CEO round table and I really wish I could remember the CEO's name now, so I could give him a shout [00:23:00] out. But but one of the young credit union professionals asked basically that same question at the table and his response was pretty similar to yours.
[00:23:08] And he basically just said "Stop trying to get the next position. Just be really good at the position you're in so that it's very apparent that you've outgrown that role. And at the very least you'll be really good and efficient at your job. And then the best case is it promotes you."
[00:23:25] Laura Thompson: [00:23:25] Yeah, I agree. And I do some volunteering with Women in Technology International and meet with young women who are in a tech role and want to know "How would I get to your, how would I get to be a CIO someday or an executive?" And I do usually tell them that you have to go broad with your knowledge.
[00:23:45] You can be a specialist in development or engineering or, and that's fine. But the more you go broad and learn about the business and the other departments and how your customers or members are affected, you'd have to go broad [00:24:00] instead of deep and that's, that will pay off. And that's how you can grow and learn.
[00:24:05] And you can also grow and learn in a specific tech role too, but usually the higher you go, the broader your knowledge needs to be.
[00:24:13] Josh DeTar: [00:24:13] We are 27 minutes and 56 seconds into this recording. And man, did you just knock it out of the park with something that I cannot wait to ask you about and talk to you about. And it's it, I think you have such an incredible wealth of knowledge that I bet we could sit here for hours picking your brain on. You've spent
[00:24:33] the considerable amount of time in the credit union industry, and a lot of that in technology, and a lot of that in technology leadership for a very technology focused, innovative credit union in, arguably geographically, one of the more technically advanced areas of the country.
[00:24:51] Maybe give us some of the, what are some of the things that you saw over those years in the industry and technology that really stand out to you?
[00:25:00] [00:24:59] Laura Thompson: [00:24:59] Well, a lot of changes in digital banking for sure. I'll back up a little core systems changed quite a bit. And digital banking especially probably changed the fastest. So going from, again, what we would call home banking or online banking, web based banking to mobile, adding mobile later on to what it is today, really, which is just it doesn't matter what device you're using,
[00:25:28] it's just how you access accounts in a digital way. And that's changed a great deal and it's for credit unions, it's, it's hard to keep up with that. You have to partner with somebody, but in addition to that constantly be evolving your features that you offer your members because they're gonna, they're always gonna compare you to Chase and the big banks.
[00:25:53] So if it's difficult for credit unions, especially smaller ones. But digital banking has really [00:26:00] changed and grown in a good way. It's, I can't imagine life without it now. And I'm sure many of our members couldn't either. The other things that are really changing very quickly is data and analytics.
[00:26:12] And we were working on some really large initiatives when I left in redesigning and rebuilding our data warehouse as well as just using data in a different way, going beyond static reporting to looking at behavior and predictive analytics. So I think credit unions really are adopting that and there's so much work to be done there. But if credit unions do put in the time and work around data, and also how data can make the member experience better, how we can use data to do that.
[00:26:43] Because when you think about members applying for membership or loans, or whatever they need to do to apply, we already have most of that information. And we ask them to fill out forms over and over again. The doctor's [00:27:00] offices are the same way, but we can make life easier for them by using the data we already have.
[00:27:06] And so credit unions need to work a lot on that, how to use the data to make the member experience better. Even with just some practical things like forums and integration, and the data is in so many different places at many credit unions. But how do we bring it all together and make life easy for members, that's key in addition to reporting and analytics and trying to anticipate the members' needs before they even ask for it.
[00:27:32] That's important too. I would have to say, CCPA that the yet data privacy things are really acts are really forcing credit unions to get a better handle on all the data they have, how it's stored and how to access it. And although that, that regulation is just huge in, in what needs to be done,
[00:27:53] it's I think in the, at the end of the day, it's going to help credit unions serve members better by just getting a good handle [00:28:00] on the data and getting a good governance program together, just normalizing the data. So there's a lot of work to be done there. But it's exciting. That's exciting work and can do a lot for credit unions,
[00:28:13] if you look at what Amazon, Google, what Netflix, what some of the bigger companies have done with data, credit unions can do that, and should do that.
[00:28:24] Josh DeTar: [00:28:24] Yeah. I want to come back to that, but before I do, I feel like this is probably a obvious answer, but I'd love to get your perspective on it. Would you say that the velocity in which change happens in technology has just gotten exponentially faster over the last 30 years?
[00:28:43] Laura Thompson: [00:28:43] Definitely. Yeah, definitely. We can't, credit unions can't take forever to make changes. Yeah. Things are moving much faster. You have to, we have to keep up again they compare us to Chase and others, so you have to keep up. And consumers just [00:29:00] expect the expectations of, "I need it now. I want it.
[00:29:04] I want to do this on my phone. I need it now, and 24/7." So just even saying the call centers closed on Sundays, sometimes it's, it's hard for people to accept that anymore and they want a 24/7 world. And so yeah, change in technology definitely has it's changed so quickly and we'll continue with what's offered and consumers expectations of the way we do business.
[00:29:31] Josh DeTar: [00:29:31] So going back to the data and analytics side. You made a comment that the credit unions can and should be doing the same types of things to understand their members the way Netflix does. And Netflix just plays the next show for me and remind, or recommends, "Your friends have been watching this.
[00:29:49] You'd probably find it interesting based on what you've watched." And they're doing really smart things with their data. Do you think credit unions have missed the boat? Are they too late to this game?
[00:29:58] Laura Thompson: [00:29:58] No, I don't think [00:30:00] so, because credit unions have a certain level of trust with members that other companies or institutions may not have. So if consumers already trust a credit union and feel like, they feel like, "You're going to do right by me", then, we can work to make things easier for them.
[00:30:20] And just again, going something as basic as, "Don't make me fill out this form over and over when you already have the info." Or "If I'm, if I'm getting a consumer loan and now I want a mortgage loan, do I really have to fill this out again?" This is just basic some basic thing. Even though on the backend, at the credit union, we know, "Oh, that's a different system on the cards, a different system that the members don't know that, and shouldn't care if I change my address on, at a teller window, it better reach my mortgage and credit card too." Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense to members that just because we use different systems and [00:31:00] store things differently we've got to make things easier for members in addition to get knowing their needs or we shouldn't mail them something or send them an email on a pro-, on a home loan, if they don't own a home. Just things like that, that we should know about them.
[00:31:16] And I think consumers give credit unions a little bit of, a little bit of grace when it comes to technology. And I remember reading some of our members surveys that said, "I respect you because you're not trying to take over the world." Like "Your technology could be better, but hey, at least you're not trying to rule the world or something like." So I expect less sophistication from credit unions, and that's sad,
[00:31:41] but but I think they know we're trying to do good, and we're not trying to take over.
[00:31:46] Josh DeTar: [00:31:46] It's by the time this podcast airs, I hope we have this article out. It's one of the things Silva and I have been talking about, so I don't know if you're familiar, but we've been working with a group of students out at George Washington [00:32:00] University. And they're starting a new credit union, student run credit union initiative.
[00:32:05] And we are going to be their digital banking platform. So we've just, we've been able to watch them go through this process. And Laura, I kid you not, I had to actually go through my email the other day to see how long it has taken them. And this is just from the first time they reached out to us about digital banking.
[00:32:25] So this isn't even the start of the initiative, right? June 24th, three years ago.
[00:32:32] Laura Thompson: [00:32:32] Oh, wow.
[00:32:34] Josh DeTar: [00:32:34] And they hopefully have a meeting, later this week, with the NCUA where they might learn about what they need to do next to finally get a charter number. So over three years they've been working to get a charter number and Silva made the comment he laughed and he goes, "Here are the, we have these really intelligent, ambitious, hardworking, young generation of [00:33:00] college aged kids who", like you said, 'They're not trying to take over the world.'
[00:33:04] They want to actually do something that provides value to their community, into their peers. And they want to take the moral high road and they want to start a nonprofit. They want to start a credit union. And it's taken them three years of blood, sweat, and tears, and they still don't have a charter number.
[00:33:19] Whereas if they'd probably just started online dating app to help people hook up randomly, they could be millionaires right now, sitting on their yachts at 22."
[00:33:28] Laura Thompson: [00:33:28] That's so sad.
[00:33:29] Josh DeTar: [00:33:29] It is. It's it's an interesting place because we want to help facilitate credit unions to be able to do what they do. So that you can have members make a statement
[00:33:40] like "I love being with you, 'cause I know you're not trying to take over the world. You actually legitimately care about me as an individual, as a human being." But then we have to play nice with this world that is getting Uber-techie and we have to still be able to build those types of relationships and have that type of communication with our members when they maybe don't [00:34:00] stop into the branch once a week like they used to.
[00:34:02] And so I think the comment that you made is so incredibly relevant to today, which is you can't go sending the member a piece of paper that says, "Orange County's Credit Union has pre-approved you for a heloc." And they're like, "Cool, I am in an apartment that I rent."
[00:34:20] Laura Thompson: [00:34:20] It's so sad and some of the rules and the regulators and rules that have not kept up with the times and make it difficult to make changes or like Reg D for example, this is something that's always bugged me as, "Oh, if you have a savings account, you can't do more than six electronic transactions per month."
[00:34:39] When COVID hit, and again people didn't want to go into branches, there were some changes made on Reg D in that six transaction limit, but that should have been changed a long time ago with, with people doing digital banking. Why would you need to go into a branch and why have those old limits in place?
[00:34:58] And it's just, a lot of [00:35:00] the system, the old rules, regs act, they need to be revamped for modern times. And that's so sad about the kids. Like they can't, they can't get the credit union started. And you're right in different industries, it would be up and running and sold by now.
[00:35:15] Josh DeTar: [00:35:15] Yeah, up and running and sold. Yeah, I know. I do also really respect what those regulations do for our industry on the other hand, because they do keep, let's face it, big tech from, "They don't want to hold deposits. You know how much work that is to hold deposits? You know what regulation
[00:35:33] is in that?" Amazon's like, "No, we're good. You guys can hold it all deposits." Those regulations aren't necessarily keeping them from doing other things, like getting into the payments game or getting into the loan game. And I think that's where it gets a little bit interesting. And we, as the, not just credit unions, I very much so classified community banks in this as well of we need to be a lot smarter about moving quickly where we can and should be [00:36:00] moving quickly to make sure that we really are using things like our data to make really sound consumer experience decisions that make them say, "Hey, you know what?
[00:36:12] I love banking with my credit union because they're not trying to take over the world because they're not for profit. Because they're member owned and by the way, they also have way better tech than Amazon."
[00:36:23] Like how cool would that be? It that's what they were saying.
[00:36:29] Laura Thompson: [00:36:29] Yeah. And I do think that the regulations are there for a reason and they're necessary, but they need to be modernized. Yeah.
[00:36:37] Josh DeTar: [00:36:37] Yeah. What types of things have you seen over just even the last couple of years that that have changed for the better?
[00:36:44] Laura Thompson: [00:36:44] The one that came to mind again was Reg D, the Reg D the six limit, the six transactional limitation was something recently changed. Gosh, I just off the top of my head, again, that the consumer, the data privacy [00:37:00] regulations are, they are good for consumers, even though they may be very burdensome to credit unions.
[00:37:07] I think that it's necessary, especially in the world of social media to really limit and let consumers choose what you can and can't do with their data. It really should apply to any industry, but like you mentioned earlier credit unions aren't trying to do bad things with the data they're trying to, we're very good at protecting it because of risk of cyber attacks and things.
[00:37:28] But I'm just trying to think of other regulations that have changed for the better. I just, nothing comes to mind right away.
[00:37:37] Josh DeTar: [00:37:37] But I think that might be a great example of the problem. And that goes back to something that we were talking about earlier in that, when the answer to the question sometimes is "This is how we've always done it." Especially in an industry that traditionally has moved very slow. It needs to now start thinking about moving much faster.
[00:38:00] [00:37:59] That should be a huge red flag that says, "Okay is it still the right way to do it?" Okay. When you look back at just your journey in technology, what are the things that that have been cool to see that have changed for credit unions in allowing them to offer better member experience at technology?
[00:38:23] Laura Thompson: [00:38:23] Anything that you're able to do online or through with your mobile device without coming in, applying for loans, new accounts moving money and I think credit unions can do a better job with money movement. There's still some work to do there to make it as, as easy and as fast as say Venmo, PayPal,
[00:38:42] but just anything that I should be able to do anything on my computer or on my phone without having to come to a branch. And for the most part, a lot of it was there. I think with COVID, things escalated quickly and maybe there was more use of DocuSign and [00:39:00] digital documents.
[00:39:02] And we were doing that for loans and new accounts. But mortgages were a little bit stricter in what they had to do and certain things have to be notarized. But I think definitely being able to bank 24/7 anywhere, anytime, when you're on vacation, I think those are wonderful technology advancements.
[00:39:22] I also think, just, AWS and Azure credit unions, being able to not have a server room, a physical server room full of equipment and have to maintain that. And even have the, the security that the redundancy of power and telecom lines, and so on that you can host something anywhere and have again security.
[00:39:44] I think people were worried in the beginning about "I, I need to touch and see the servers", and "I'm worried, I don't know where it is." But companies like Amazon and Microsoft and other they can do it much better. That's their business. [00:40:00] They have the redundancy, the security, they have everything enabled to host data centers.
[00:40:05] So credit unions don't need to be in that business anymore of hosting servers and so on. So that's been, I think, wonderful and, and making things more scalable even more secure in some ways. So even if you can't see it and touch it, and it makes it much easier to roll out a product and get things implemented when they're hosted elsewhere.
[00:40:28] So that's been a great advancement that we were taking advantage of at OCC.
[00:40:35] Josh DeTar: [00:40:35] Yeah, that's a really good comment. I can't even begin to tell you how many times we still talk to credit unions that are, I'll use the word, scared to give up that control of on-prem and move things to the cloud. And I want to say it was actually Silva has a t-shirt that says "The cloud,
[00:40:50] it's just somebody else's computer" or something like that. But being able to leverage that to, and to your point, use somebody else's strengths, so that when when you're down, it's not Laura [00:41:00] has to run to the credit union and go hit restart on that bad boy and give it a kick, or make sure the generator's running. Amazon has 12 different power supplies to this.
[00:41:08] They have 14 different internet connections and "Oh, that server went down. No big deal. We'll just move it over to that one. Spin it up." And two seconds later, you're up and running. And you remember it has no clue anything ever just happened.
[00:41:20] Laura Thompson: [00:41:20] So for normal business or even business continuity, with floods, fires and everything else going on, just having that the data centers in multiple locations. And again, the power of working with a company like Amazon or Microsoft ensure or any kind of good cloud service.
[00:41:38] It's just much better than we can do on our own, usually. If you're at a huge credit union and you have the money and infrastructure, but is that really where you want to put your resources? And every credit union is different and has a different take on the cloud and whether they're ready for it or not, or want to use it or not that I think can make [00:42:00] credit unions just use resources in different ways.
[00:42:04] Josh DeTar: [00:42:04] Yeah, no, that's you'll, I think you'll find this comical. We were recently talking to a credit union and they were talking about their uncertainty of wanting to move from an on-prem to a hosted solution. And a lot of it was around the ability that like, if something goes wrong, they can run into the credit union and it's all right there.
[00:42:21] They said "You guys run multiple data centers?" "Yeah, of course we are in multiple data centers. We even run multiple providers of data centers. We've got lots of redundancies." And "What happens if all of them go down?" I was like, "All of them go down?
[00:42:32] Trust me we're all running for the hills. Something way worse is happening than keeping digital banking up and running, no offense, it's the last thing on our minds at that point." Like the San Andreas fault has as, annihilated the entire West coast or something. And we're all running from a giant tidal wave. But but no, you made a parting thought there at the end though, that I want to come back to, which I think is really the key. And the key is that it then gives you the opportunity [00:43:00] to not necessarily just not have or get rid of resources, but repurpose them. And be really smart about then doing the things that make you and your credit union unique and special.
[00:43:14] Laura Thompson: [00:43:14] I agree. We were starting to work more on having a business analyst type role, whether it was for efficiency and how departments, our associates use systems, or even, bridging the gap between a business unit and the analytics team, and data ownership, and data cleansing, and data governance.
[00:43:36] But because in, in our traditional org chart, there wasn't really any one in-between say tech and the business kind of being that liaison or translator. So when we were working on data governments, there was just a disconnect between "This is your, this is my job. No, this is your job."
[00:43:56] And, but you need people who know how you use the data, and then you [00:44:00] need people that understand the backend of it and someone in between that can do that. That was a newer role for OCC. And I can see, using tech resources or even resources that may have been used for infrastructure to help bridge that gap between the business and tech or an analytics.
[00:44:20] There's just some, there's a lot you can do with, again, those resources, extra resources, but that's something we were starting to see more of a need for, as we were growing.
[00:44:31] Josh DeTar: [00:44:31] Do you think that you're going to start to see more of a need from credit unions to have more IT, and even in-house development resources?
[00:44:40] Laura Thompson: [00:44:40] I think it's all a little different. It depends there's so much you can do without sourcing now. And it's just, it's different. Every credit union has a different perspective or the way they want to handle it. So you can outsource infrastructure and have everything hosted in the cloud and not have to have resources [00:45:00] for that.
[00:45:00] You could have programmers in the world of Symitar what we were running at OCC. Doing power ons, investing in programmers to do power ons, made our frontline much more efficient. They, we needed less people in the front, If the power ons were automating tasks for them. And then again, having more business analysts help bridge the gap between again that the needs of the frontline or the business and the, and what tech can deliver.
[00:45:30] And so I think that role is so critical or even how to use data better. So I think again, having that in between tech and business, someone that kind of brings them together and get some aligned on "Why we're doing this?" So it's, there definitely is a need for technology and tech associates and professionals,
[00:45:52] but there are a lot of ways to outsource these days, too, if you want to use the resources differently.
[00:45:58]Josh DeTar: [00:45:58] Do you see that there, as a [00:46:00] part of that, is going to be a place for using technology to automate a lot of those processes, like you were saying?
[00:46:07] Laura Thompson: [00:46:07] Definitively, I think with the beauty of having your own software engineers or developers in houses, they're, they're going to get things done faster. They're able to meet with people right away and get things done, where if you're outsourcing, it might take longer or even harder to explain exactly what you want.
[00:46:24] So there's pros and cons to doing that. But what we were trying to look at OCC was spending on a developer or programmer could make us more efficient by automating a process that, you know, used to take hours to do, for a person to do. And that's something we would do with all of our power ons is track how many hours we would save and somebody doing it manually.
[00:46:50] So there's definitely, that's a good, it was a good investment for us.
[00:46:55] Josh DeTar: [00:46:55] Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I've I've definitely seen as of late that some of our [00:47:00] more on envelope pushing credit unions have been really, putting some resources around, looking for ways to manipulate and configure their core. Specific, the great example, a Symitar core, developing power on calls and then being able to expose that it's actually really quiet.
[00:47:19] I just got an email, just before we jumped on the podcast during our quarterly update, one of our customers talked about some of the cool new features that they're rolling out with us because they developed some custom Symitar power on calls. And one of our other Symitar credit unions, it was like, "Whoa, that's really cool.
[00:47:34] I want that." And so they reached out and the other credit union was like "Here's the power on calls we created and just shared it with them." I was like, "Oh, man, that's a, that's one of those kind of real feel good moments of how credit unions do a great job of doing some custom things for them, but then also being really collaborative to build a stronger ecosystem."
[00:47:52] And I think, that's a great area to use some internal resources around is really being experts around those types of things and [00:48:00] being able to manipulate your core to make your specific processes that much more efficient.
[00:48:05] Laura Thompson: [00:48:05] Yeah, agreed. And another great part of the credit union industry, like you mentioned this, is sharing. The sharing of those programs or sharing of knowledge, or throughout my tenure, I would cranes would share policies and we'd share with them. And you probably wouldn't see that in banks and other industries, but we would help each other,
[00:48:26] with against, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, we'll share this with you. And I know Symitar has created a marketplace to where credit unions can go and look at power on. Some of them are free, some of them aren't, but it's just a great way to share resources and not have to reinvent the wheel.
[00:48:45] Josh DeTar: [00:48:45] Yeah, for sure. So as you kinda pass the proverbial torch, what are the things that you're really hoping to see that kind of next generation of CIOs and technology heads at credit unions do? [00:49:00] What are your, what are you hoping to see as you look from now the outside in?
[00:49:03] Laura Thompson: [00:49:03] Something that I was starting to see, and I think it's, I'm hoping it continues as, that CEO's are not, not just technology experts. In fact, you may not be the expert at all, but that you understand the business and the members as much as you do the technology. And just really being open to, again, broadening that knowledge of maybe you're not just a tech expert or just this. I don't mean just in that terms, there's everybody has their knowledge and it's very important, but trying to learn more about the business and really every part of the business, I encourage CIOs and
[00:49:45] others to go visit the branches, go sit and listen to calls in the call center. It was, we have rewards meetings every so often in luncheons. And we, I would listen to MSRs tells stories of how they helped members. [00:50:00] And I know you told me a story too, but when you listen to those kinds of stories or watch them in action or listened to the kinds of things members are calling for, it really takes you out of, your, what you think you should be doing to "Wow,
[00:50:14] here's I'm hearing, what someone's everyday problem is." Or again, "What are we really here for? We're here for our members. Are we really helping the members or are we really helping the associates serve the members?" And when you get in there and watch and listen, you just want to make sure you're working on the right things that may help you readjust priorities,
[00:50:35] when you see it for yourself.
[00:50:38] Josh DeTar: [00:50:38] I love that. It does make you rethink things, right? Every element of a credit union is a, it's a cog in the gear. And every piece needs to be working harmoniously because it may be some project that you're working on in a department over here that you may not feel like has a direct impact, but then you hear a member story and you're like "I may not [00:51:00] have directly impacted that.
[00:51:01] But what I'm doing is supporting our credit union to give our credit union the platform, to be able to have that member story."
[00:51:09] Oh, that's cool. I like that that.
[00:51:10] Laura Thompson: [00:51:10] It Just brings it back to, "Oh yeah, this is why we're here. Yep. This is why we're here. And don't ever forget that. This is who we serve and why we're here."
[00:51:21] Josh DeTar: [00:51:21] Yeah. Laura, thank you so much for coming and being a guest on the show today. I feel like I could keep you for hours on end, just learning from all the different, not only experience you have, but just the kind of unique way you've taken to adapting that knowledge over the years to make some really smart decisions with what you've done with the credit union.
[00:51:41] And and I just always really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you and learn from you, so thank you.
[00:51:45] Laura Thompson: [00:51:45] Josh, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And I, again, I didn't feel like I'd have anything valuable to say, but I appreciate the way you pose questions and made me feel welcome, so thank you.
[00:51:58] Josh DeTar: [00:51:58] Of course. Yeah, no, it [00:52:00] is it is something that I, it's funny, I hear time and time again from guests that that come on the show and they say, "Why? I just don't know if I'm that interesting or if I'm worth listening to." And then, their episode comes out and then I start forwarding them all the emails that I get, where people are like, "Oh my gosh, I learned something so cool,
[00:52:15] and so new." And again, I think this actually goes back to almost the entire main theme of this entire episode with you. Which is take the knowledge and history that you gain in the time that you spend, but always be willing to keep learning.
[00:52:29] Laura Thompson: [00:52:29] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:30] Josh DeTar: [00:52:30] And, and it's cool to
[00:52:33] Laura Thompson: [00:52:33] That's a great way to sum it up.
[00:52:36] Josh DeTar: [00:52:36] Yeah, and it's just, it's cool to see our listeners be able to hear guests like yourself and say, "Wow, I may have totally known that, but I didn't think about it that way. And it may totally change my perspective or make me think about something a little bit differently." Or maybe, "You know what, I have been a stick in the mud about this one thing, and maybe it'll change how I act with somebody tomorrow."
[00:52:55] I don't know. But been really a fan of being able to have this [00:53:00] platform to learn from others like yourself. So...
[00:53:01] Laura Thompson: [00:53:01] I appreciate you putting these out there. And again, that's, this is all free knowledge for anyone who wants to follow the link and listen.
[00:53:09] Josh DeTar: [00:53:09] Exactly. Before I turn you loose and let you go maybe two parting thoughts from you. So I know you are "retired", quote unquote, but I was able to still even drag you in for this. How do you stay up to date and what's what's happening in the credit union industry, or even do you anymore?
[00:53:25] Laura Thompson: [00:53:25] I don't as much anymore. I still talk to some of my peers at OCC, periodically. And I like to read. I'm on LinkedIn, so I get updates about what people are doing. And so I dabbled read some of those. But I pretty much listened to much broader news now and read things that are just more about the world in general.
[00:53:50] Or I still like reading about technology news. And read a daily email called the Morning Brew. But but I haven't been as in tune with what credit unions are [00:54:00] doing these days. We, my husband and I moved out of state and we're really enjoying this, just golfing, walking, working out, bike riding.
[00:54:09] So I do a little bit of reading, but again I haven't been as good at keeping up on the industry news.
[00:54:15] Josh DeTar: [00:54:15] Deserved, earned. Enjoy the retirement. Have a Mojito on the golf course for me. I'll be here working. But one last thing, if if folks are interested in connecting with you or networking with you and maybe even getting a chance to pick your brain even further than I got a chance to on today's podcast, how can they connect with you?
[00:54:32] Or
[00:54:33] Laura Thompson: [00:54:33] I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably the best way to connect with me. So Laura Thompson on LinkedIn. I'm, I think it says that I I've changed it to say I'm retired CIO of Orange County's Credit Union, but I didn't update a lot of my older experience on there, but I am on LinkedIn.
[00:54:51] Josh DeTar: [00:54:51] Awesome. And we'll make sure that there's a link on the website as well. So again, Laura, thank you so much for taking the time out today to come and talk and just [00:55:00] share some of your insight and knowledge. It's truly invaluable. So thank you.
[00:55:04] Laura Thompson: [00:55:04] you for having me.
[00:55:06] Josh DeTar: [00:55:06] All right. Take care.
[00:55:06] Laura Thompson: [00:55:06] You too.
[00:55:08] Josh DeTar: [00:55:08] Bye.