Patterns & Paradigms | The Pattern Podcast
Patterns & Paradigms | The Pattern Podcast
Episode 013: 2020 - The Year in Review Part I with Marsha Gordon & Al Samuels
We're taking time to reflect on this incredibly challenging year. The pandemic has greatly impacted our businesses - changing the way we work, the way we meet, and how we commute. In Part I of this Year in Review series, we're talking about how our community businesses have been impacted, what we've learned, and how we move forward in the New Year.
This week's episode features Dr. Marsha Gordon, President and CEO of the Business Council of Westchester, and Al Samuels, President and CEO of the Rockland Business Association.
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental change in the way we usually do things. We are intentionally choosing to see the silver lining opportunity arises. We can shine a light on the things that weren't working well on those things that weren't really working at all, we can regroup reevaluate and re-engineer it's time to explore new patterns and paradigms those that inspire us to rise above the chaos and explore how the conditions of today and take us to a better tomorrow patterns and paradigms the pattern podcast from Hudson Valley pattern for progress. You're listening to episode 13, 20, 20 the year in review part one with your host pattern, president and CEO, Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. And welcome to this week's episode of patterns and paradigms. Of course, if you have any questions or comments about our podcast, please send them to patent for progress.org/podcast. And please remember to subscribe to our podcast, which is available on Apple, Amazon music, Spotify, or wherever you go to find your podcasts. So it's way too early to know whether this is a pattern or a bubble, but the speed at which the COVID-19 vaccine was developed. Begs the question, what else can be done? If we dedicate incredible resources, money, and dedicated workers to a common goal, it is the modern moonshot. Now we wouldn't want to replicate the exact same scenario as in hundreds of thousands of people dying in a matter of months yet, have we entered a new period of tackling insurmountable challenges? The story of the vaccine, which has yet to be written is a pioneering use of DNA based data to invade the virus, which has never been done before. So we ask what's next. We'd love to hear from you, our listeners as to what else can we tackle. But before we get to our guests, let's ask Joe Cheika what's up Joe, to find out what's happening in pattern's world. Joe, the New York state division of homes and community renewal recently announced a new round of funding for their New York main streets grant program. The funding can be used for the following uses building renovation, downtown anchor projects, and technical assistance. What do you think that means? The downtowns in the Hudson Valley?
Speaker 3:Well, thanks JD. You know, the main streets of a community really act as the spine for the community. They're bustling with things going on there's jobs. There shops, uh, social activities, festivals, street fairs, and sometimes parades main street defines your community. In many ways, it tells a story. So when you're looking at funding for main streets, I kind of asked myself, what does that community want their story to be? And it's important for them to understand their story and broadcast their stuff.
Speaker 2:So, Joe, do you have any suggestions about where we might be able to look or direct the communities to tell their story?
Speaker 3:Well, sure. I do, uh, down in Rockland County, there is, uh, in Western West Haverstraw. There's this, this little building that's actually not so little. It's called the Garnerville art center. If an anchor project exists, this is it. It is a wonderful brick building, massive size with lots of tenants, little shops, a brewery of course, dining facility and other little activities that go on that really enhance this entire community.
Speaker 2:It really is the anchor for the whole habit straw area. And in some ways people speak of it as the, the anchor, you know, it's like the shining example for Rockland County.
Speaker 3:It absolutely is. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a great little gym down in Rockland County. Um, another project I thought could be very useful would be along the massive street of Broadway in Newburgh. There are dozens and dozens of main street buildings that could use a facade or innovation. There has been some investment in the past and in recent years they've come a long, long way, but there's still some buildings. What I would like to say is missing teeth along Broadway that needs some help.
Speaker 2:That's a great example. And lastly, they offer technical assistance. Joe, you work with the mid Hudson mayors. Do you think maybe, um, we could apply for that kind of a grant to assist all of them in looking at future anchor projects or facade renovation?
Speaker 3:Well, I think that's a great idea, you know, it's right, it's right up our alley, as far as providing technical assistance and really preparing our community for what's to come lining up resources, examining what their needs are, um, and, and developing some local capacity. And that's what this grant is for. And we could definitely work with these mayors. These mayors are progressive in terms of wanting their communities to, to pull ahead and they want, they always want to do
Speaker 2:The right thing. What a great shot in the arm right now in the midst of COVID. So, um, let's take a look at that, Joe, and thanks for being with us this week. Thank you. Let me now introduce our guests this week. Dr. Marcia Gordon is the president and CEO of the business council of Westchester Westchester's most influential business organization. It position she has held for 19 years. Dr. Gordon was recently named the third, most powerful person in Westchester County by sitting in state magazine and our other guests Al Samuel's, the president and CEO of the Rocklin business association, which is a neighbor to Westchester is Rocklands most important business organization, both Marsha and Al join me as members of the mid Hudson, regional economic development councils executive committee. This is the first of three special episodes we are doing to wrap up the year. And I couldn't be more pleased than to be joined by two of my favorite people, Marsha Gordon, Al Samuel's welcome to patterns and paradigms. How are you doing
Speaker 4:Thank you for having us, Jonathan, very excited to be here with you at the end of the day,
Speaker 2:Two of my most favorite people in the old world. And, and both of you look actually both of you look great. I mean, I have to go find out whatever you're doing because I'm, I can't, it's a good thing. No one can see me cause I look as tired as could be, but you guys look great.
Speaker 4:You know what? I think you just have to put on the red lipstick because that really helps, you know, that really helps it puts you in a better mode. And if you're old enough to
Speaker 2:No, the story of Dorian gray just looked behind the door to my right and you'll see what I really look like.
Speaker 4:Well, don't get out just us. So to the
Speaker 2:Listening, um, these truly are two of my dear friends. I've known him throughout my time, that pattern, um, they are, they, they do a fabulous job running both of their own organizations. Um, Marsha runs the business council of Westchester and Al the Rockland, uh, business association and the RBA. And they're, they're fantastic at what they do, but let's face it, whatever we were thinking last January and February is not what happens. So where, when did both of, you know, that this was actually going South on us?
Speaker 4:I think probably for us, it was newer shell gage, but no, I think newer shell, you know, which obviously is in Westchester, it's it? We, we knew that it was happening, but it wasn't coming so close to, so it wasn't affecting all of our everyday work, you know, I think probably about March 9th or so. We got a notice that there was a case in our building and we started to hear about it. And all of a sudden, the next day, the next day, it seemed that the parking lot was much emptier. And I think we made a decision probably within a few days to, um, to work from home. And we didn't know what it meant then, and we didn't know what zoom was and we didn't know that potential. Um, but you know, we took home what we could and we knew, you know, we knew it was very serious. We know it was very serious. So when we started to see people dying and frankly, someone in my family died, you know, um, you know, in my extended family, not thinking that might be the time. I said the family died at the very beginning and we knew it was very serious. So yeah.
Speaker 5:Well, for me, I didn't have to see it in my immediate vicinity. Uh, maybe be the senior citizen of our group. Uh, I I'm a little more cautious or a little more nervous, but in February we started getting the reports worldwide national. I said, we're in for a very difficult time. And I think that yes, in the first week of March, that's when we shut down Masha. Uh, and it was quite an experience because we all, the three of us have duties beyond our own organizations. We're all on the executive committee of the regional economic development council. And there are files that I have on the lock and key in the office that I don't keep it home. And I had to get those. I had to go back to get them. Uh, there were some other things I'm, I'm on the board of other organizations. I had to go and get those files, which were also under lock and key. And my den at home became quite different. It became, uh, I spent more time for eight and a half months. I spent more time in the room that I'm speaking to you at right now than I did in any other room, uh, that I can recall it. It was all day. It was every day, it was eight days a week. It was more than 24 hours because there was no clock. There was no time. I know Marsh, we spoke about this. The days just continued going. It wasn't nine to five. It was from whenever you got up until whenever, you know, in my case, it was my wife, Marilyn saying dinner is ready. And I knew I had a shutdown, uh, but it started first week in March and it ran for about eight and a half months. So, um, as both of you now, uh, I, I talk a lot about technology, but personally I am no master of
Speaker 2:Technology. It was actually during a meeting of the regional economic development council. When I decided it was time for me to get my first iPhone, because someone paused and said, aren't you part of this discussion? And I went, what are you talking about? And there was the conversation going on in the council. Uh, but subterranean is Lee. There was a separate conversation where people were sending messages to each other on their iPhones and, you know, tech, you know, and I said, uh, I gotta get one of these things. So that just tells you personally how out of sync I was with technology. But no, I understand it's Maris. What did you do Marsha? And what did you do out to sort of pivot in order, you know, you run big organizations.
Speaker 4:So I'm also not, uh, uh, not great on technology, but I I'm open to it. Um, and I remember, and I'm very, very fortunate to have staff members that learned it very quickly. Uh, not only zoom, but hop it hop in for our trade show and doing different things with our zoom meetings, breaking into sub groups. And so I really had some guidance guidance to do it, but I'll never forget the first time we did an experimental, you know, probably the next week staff meeting on zoom and we were all giddy. I mean, it was, it was a funny, it was a funny experience. It was funny thing. So, you know, I kind of just decided to embrace it and to embrace the opportunities that it gave us. And we've also, um, done, you know, we've done it in many formats, we've done it in webinar formats. We had, um, very active webinars with very active chat rooms. We have, what we've learned also is that whoever registers for something and we have a hundred people register and we have, let's say 75 people show up as participants. We may be picking up the rest of them on Facebook because then we have 250 views on how we do it on Facebook. And so fortunately I was someone who I'm very active in social media. And so I felt very comfortable with that. We did have a web, a webinar the other day, and a whole new world was opened up to me with the new, with the new techniques that marketers are using influencers and other, other, um, other platforms that marketers are using. So I think wherever we are, we, we need to be open to getting to the next level and to bringing our members there.
Speaker 2:Well, to put in perspective what it took for me and Marshall was an encourager with regard to this as she is with many things that I, uh,
Speaker 5:Back when we were preparing for Y2K, the RBA retained the services of a, uh, uh, a guide, so to speak. And at the last meeting that we had at just before new year's, it was our December luncheon. The man made an address to our members about what they would be facing, you know, new year's Eve, January 1st and moving forward. And he said, and folks, remember, as you all plan to enter the 21st century, you have to recall and remember to drag Allen to the 20th. So that'll tell you where I am with regard to technology. We started using social media and platforms that were available to us on the iPhone. Before we went to zoom, we would turning out a lot of material, uh, that was very useful to people early on, because there was so much confusion. And we had the ability to gain access to, you know, what we say in Yiddish as the MOS, the truth about what was being discussed. It wasn't, you know, false news, fake news. It wasn't, uh, you know, news that came off blog. This was news that really helped folks. And so we tried to put it out in as wide a, uh, a distribution as possible. And luckily I had somebody who understood this very well, and she kind of led us in that direction. And then we went to zoom and Marsh like you, the first zoom meeting of ARG economic development and government affairs committee. We had 78 people. I never got one in 20 live. I had 78 and I said, this is going to work. And throughout the whole year, it has worked and we're going to continue it. And even when this is over this, this restrictive environment that we live in, when that's over, I think we'll still use a mix zoom and live because there are people for whom it is just very convenient.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, as a regional organization, um, the ability for us to gather people from nine counties, uh, is vastly increased. Um, also because they don't have the time in their cars to commute, but, but I got to say with the technology part of it, there is also a generational aspect to this. So my 22 year old and 24 year old, they're like going, you're discovering zoom and Slack. And there, these are all their language. I mean, they're like beyond that and for us to take, uh, these programs and, uh, integrate them into our organizations, should we have done this years ago, or it just never occurred to us to, to have this degree of technology just never occurred to us now
Speaker 4:Needed. And we, and we grew up in the relationship base and the face-to-face. Um, but I think what it's done most, most importantly for our members and for the businesses that, that support us is great, you know, business development benefits, certainly, but also our members tell us that psychologically, um, you know, the, having those meetings on the calendar, seeing people saying hello, being able to, to talk to each other, having to get dressed, you know, and put on, at least by the way, I have a whole new blouse wardrobe, but I do, I was very supportive. I would now own many glasses and, um, but you know, learning, you know, and that's another thing I'm making fun of it, but learning how to present yourself on zoom, how you should set and where, where your background would have your background should look and how your lighting should be is it was it's important. The first time I did. I remember I did an interview for channel 12 and even my husband who was very, very supportive, said, I said, you have to find a better, a better place to do this. You know, because you know, and the first time we did a major webinar, remember Tony, Justin did it on the idle, went way back. I had to go from room to room with my staff to figure out where the best place was, you know, so we've all learned a lot. And I think there's a lot more to learn. I'll tell you, we did a virtual virtual trade show. And it was amazing because we were able to have people like walk into people's booths and we were able for people to give webinars. And then we did this whole, I didn't couldn't even picture how it worked, but it's like, if you're walking in the hallway and you happen to meet, run into someone that happens on the, on the platform and then Jonathan, you and I saw somebody present planning company on, you know, on how they're doing public meetings and going into different rooms. So we've only just begun. And I think it's exciting and I'm not gonna, I'm not going to be afraid of it anymore.
Speaker 2:No, it, it, it it's. I think now, you know, this is the whole point of this podcast is to say, did this disruption take us in a direction that we would not naturally have gone? Some people have said that, um, the integration of technology was put on fast-forward to the degree that in some, uh, sectors, what would have taken 10 years happened in nine months that people have been forced to innovate in a way that they would never have done. And, um, you know, but Al and Marcia, you guys thrive on the live meeting as well. And so do you miss it or necessary?
Speaker 4:I really miss it. I'm missing people. I miss'em I miss hugging you bugging out, giving you a hug. Hello. You know, I mean, I think that's okay. You know, and, um, you know, I, I miss, I miss that face to face and this let you know, we're doing the best we can, but I do not believe it's the same. What about you?
Speaker 5:Same thing. There, there are members who have said to me, you know what, I'm not into this new way. I want to wait until we have live meetings again. And I, there were a couple who I haven't seen at the zoom meetings, and I've told them, you know, what, I participate as a member, not as the president and CEO, but just as a member of the RBA. And I find it worthwhile. I think you want to try it. I'm still working on a couple of them to do that. Uh, but I understand that to some degree, because those who were saying that our older folks, as Matt Marsha had said before, we were raised differently, we grew up in that, that face to face environment. The handshake was so important. We had sessions on how to shake hands right now, a days it's a fist bump or it's an elbow or we're feed or something, you know, that's even if you see someone. So yeah, there, there is a difference. Uh, and I think that as again, as we emerged from, uh COVID and it's going to take better part of the year, at least I think that we're going to find that we're going to have a mix. I think all of us will have a mix of the in-person and, you know, some of the, uh, the remote, because it is very convenient for a lot of people to do that remote. And we are, we are seeing that we get more people who attend our subsidiary group meetings than we did when they were alive. So I was thinking of trying to give some sense of order to our conversation by going first, looking back over 2020, and then looking forward. But, um, I should know better than to control a conversation amongst the three of us. There was no water, no water. It goes to where it wants to go. So, so what do you think, do you think people are going to be returning to the office? I mean, we went from five days a week in the office to not at all in the office, where's equilibrium going to eventually find itself. What do you think is going to happen? Well, I, I don't believe that we're going to have a return in the near future to the levels of commercial office occupancy that we had. I think that look for us, our lease was up during this period of COVID in 2020, and we were in a class, a building, uh, but it was a sophisticated, you know, amount of money that we pay. And we took a look at that. And a couple of my board members who have office space, uh, actually made office to me and I said, how do I not take advantage of nothing compared to something, you know, rather significant what I needed was a place for our technology while we were operating remotely for those eight, nine months in 2020, all of our tech equipment was in our regular offices. I needed a place for that. I couldn't move it into, you know, where I live or where anyone from staff lives. And we got that. We were very lucky. We have a place now where all of that is housed. Plus there are workstations where I was there this morning, knowing that we were going to do this. I went in this morning to take care of things and then came here and I'm kind of splitting my days normally in the morning, I'm home because we were doing our zoom meetings or we're doing our calls and I'll have lunch and then go to the office for the rest of the afternoon and take care of things that might require the technology. That's there. You know, what I'm comfortable with that. I don't see that we'll be returning, uh, in the near future at some point, yes, we will have a suite of offices, you know, as, as we did before. But interestingly, we seem to be getting the job done, knock wood, we're getting the job done, working remotely with a place to go when we need it. And Marcia, you still have yours.
Speaker 4:So we still have our offices. Um, and we are keeping our offices. We did go back at the end of June, um, when whatever our central service, no, we, we went back when the professional services went back, we felt it was important to make that statement. It was frankly, after a great deal of discussion with, um, the staff, um, now five staff members and, uh, one woman asked for an extra two weeks because there were some things, you know, there were things going on that she, she felt more comfortable. And there was no question about it. We just said that is fine. Um, you know, had to be a joint decision. We do have a pretty large office. We all have our separate offices. Um, my director of office operations, when we walked in, it was unreal. There was, uh, there was, there are signs still all over the office. Every day we go into our small conference room. Every one of us signs in every one of us takes temperature. We record it. Um, and we go to our offices wearing masks when we do, um, we do degree to have staff meetings together in the boardroom, which is very large and could fit 30. So with five of us, there's plenty of space for social distancing. We asked each other that day. Literally, if we feel comfortable during the staff meeting, removing our masks, you know, to speak to each other, but it is with, it is with great respect that we're doing. And if anyone sneezes they're home, you know, they don't, they don't come in. Um, I, I do. And, and our office, frankly, as most of us was also, it was not so much for, for us staff as many professional services off, it was a gathering place for members. It was a gathering place for meetings, was getting guys from members. You know, I'm hopeful that with, you know, with the vaccine, um, you know, I, I don't think that for the first half of 2021, we will be back. I'm hopeful that maybe the second half we'll start having some smaller opportunities to get together, because it's really nice to do that. It really is.
Speaker 2:I think people are going to be hungry to do that. I mean, I mean, in our case, we were just call it fortunate or whatever, but our lease was our five-year lease was up October one. And so we decided to similar to Al to save the money, go completely virtual, but that's a decision that's just being made for 2021. It's not to say that it's forever. And it's just to say that, um, but we're a very different organization. We can operate in this virtual world and do it very well between zoom and Slack and doing our research as we do Marsha and Al you guys have organizations where you're definitely interacting with your members on a regular basis, and it's going to be, you know, different. But, but, so let me, let me ask you, Mark, um, both of you, so Metro North, um, I think is still operating it maybe 20 to 30% tops of their ridership. And, you know, we've all been part of those discussions where there are things about the operating authority from Metro North, the metropolitan transportation authority, the MTA, you know, it has at times, uh, irritated us and we've had to, you know, make our voices heard. But if the ridership doesn't come back, the overall fiscal condition of the MTA, that this is a major problem. I mean, cause it's not just for accessing the job, but it's also then coming the other direction for people that come up here on the weekends. So what do you,
Speaker 4:And during the week, frankly, there was the same number of people commute to the white Plains train station as far as, as out of it. So it's, it's a real issue. I feel very strongly about. Can I jump in here? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Um, how would I stop
Speaker 4:And very worried about the New York city situation? Um, and I don't think that in the Hudson Valley, we can remove ourselves particularly in the lower Hudson Valley from the economy of New York city, which is devastated, absolutely devastated. And so, and Metro North is an emblem of that. I mean, it's an entity of itself, but it's an emblem of that also, by the way, I just want to say that, um, I have not been on measure North, but my daughter and son-in-law have, um, and my, my 93 year old father has believe it or not. And they are, um, they say it's spotless and, and very comfortable and they have no problem being on the train. Um, just if anybody, if anybody happens, happens to me. Um, but I do think that, and I hope that maybe after the winter, when people start to get vaccinated, when we get over this really terrible time, it's important that New York, new York's New York city in Westchester, Rocklands in the Hudson Valley and get, get moving again. And part of that, getting moving is having a healthy transportation system, which we, we, which we have had. And I'm very concerned about it. I'm very concerned about the future of New York city. We are look, we're benefiting from the flea, um, in the Hudson Valley, but well, the, you know, the residential where people are moving out of the city and coming and coming and all over the Hudson Valley. And so that's, that's good. It's good for us economic development, but you know, overall, overall, if New York city isn't healthy, I get really worried. So maybe I'm just talking like a former city girl.
Speaker 5:Well, I'm in your camp Marsha as a former city boy. So, but Al did you at times have had concerns with the MTA? So where are you? Not at times consistently, constantly you're on the East bank Marsh, you've got three rail lines that are serving you all day, all night going in both directions. I'm on the West bank. We don't have that. We have never had a satisfactory transportation network on the West bank of the Hudson and it's Rocklin and orange, mostly that are affected. Uh, Rockland County is a 42 or$43 million a year value gap with the MTA. I don't have a concern for the MTA. I do have a concern for my County. Uh, I don't know how many people were using, uh, the trains that left from, uh, let's say, spring Valley. Now you went in Pearl river, that's it, there were three stops in Rockland. Uh, there's a limited number of trains in the morning and a similar limited number coming back, you know, in the afternoon, they are not much use for, uh, the, that we expect people do not come to Rockland that way. Although I will admit that some folks got very creative, uh, and, uh, you know, have done some work in the Western part of the state, uh, w excuse me, of the County Rockland County. Uh, and they've kind of built a, uh, a gateway in Sloatsburg going into tuxedo in orange County and a gateway from one County to the other. Uh, and they've relied on, uh, the port Jervis line, which comes out of orange County into suffering. It's a different line, but also very limited. So, as I said, we haven't had the, uh, the pleasure of the transportation network that the East bank of the Hudson, uh, has enjoyed. Uh, we've had limited service service that has been curtailed, uh, service that wasn't always reliable, although it did get better and more recent years, uh, but, uh, 42 or$43 million a year value gap. And now the city of New York would like to have a commuter commute attacks. Uh, that's basically going to affect those of us on the West bank. The people that Marcia is concerned about, they're going to be able to get on those trains and they're going to be able to get into Manhattan, and they're not going to be in, they're not going to have to pay this additional fee once they get down. What is it? 90th?
Speaker 2:Yes. A 60th now
Speaker 5:66th street. Yeah. So my side of the river has a different perspective. Although many people do have businesses that rely upon relationships with the city, uh, real estate, certainly do. We have always been a residential market for a certain level of workforce, you know, in Manhattan. And certainly we wouldn't want to lose that, but I'm not as sympathetic to the MTA and to New York city's trends and issues. Uh, because quite frankly, we've never gotten a fair shot from them, uh, in Rocklin and on the West bank of the Hudson.
Speaker 2:Well, uh, as we often do Al I think we're gonna, I'm going to have to disagree with you about the I'm with Marsha on this one, that the fiscal condition of New York city is imperative to the health of New York state. I mean, I'm concerned that the, you know, looking into 20, 21 and beyond the, state's not going to have money for programs that we've always participated or been involved in such as the consolidated funding application, the downtown revitalization initiative that we both are, you know, all three of us are fans, but I don't know
Speaker 5:How much money they're going to have. Their fiscal condition is not good right now. Are you worried about the state? Well, I've always felt that, uh, looking for new sources of revenue is reasonable, but looking for cost-savings particularly now is more reasonable. And we did that in our organization. I have spent an agonizing eight months, I mean, absolutely agonizing eight months immersing myself and my finance committee, my executive board, the full board in effecting cost-savings that we will live with, you know, going into 20, 21 and hopefully not beyond, but I think the state of New York needs to do the same thing. And you think after COVID the fiscal concerns of the state are, it's reasonable to think about it in terms of, we just need to tighten our belts and we'll be okay. Remember, I preface by saying, looking for new revenue streams, always important, but the belt tightening has been necessary in New York for a long time. And we've had many discussions about levels and areas where this should happen. I think it's imperative that we have those tough decisions. Now I do not have confidence that the state legislature will do that in the next session. Well, all right. As long as we're working up from the MTA to the state, do we need a federal stimulus?
Speaker 4:Of course we do. Of course we do. And I think, you know, just related to the state, I don't think we can answer that question until the new administration comes in and we know how New York is going to fare because sir, because certainly, and fair, maybe ties back to the Metro North, but not meant to, but, you know, but, but certainly the federal package will determine how New York does. So I think it's way too early to tell. I think we are all guessing, um, not only New York, but you know, local municipalities schools, all of that, you know, it remains to be seen until this all unfolds, but we have to stay focused on our federal legislators. We have new federal legislators now, not as senior as the last ones where, you know, w we were developing relationships, but we need, we need to stay focused on bringing back the bucks to New York.
Speaker 5:Al I agree with that. Okay. I am concerned about, uh, the fact, yes, we do have new legislators going to Washington. Uh, I, I don't know what their attitude is yet towards business because I didn't see business as part of their platforms. I'm looking
Speaker 2:To establish relationships with these new folks. I do see that as an area of concern in terms of federal, but I do believe that in terms of the new administration and a willingness to help local municipalities, I think there'll be a greater consideration for doing that then from the current administration. So I, I just want to help some of our listeners out, I think, Al you were thinking of the congestion pricing, congestion pricing. What did I say? No, no, no. You just didn't know. And I just wanted it. I've been criticized on this show and yes, I'm going to go right at my brother now, to me is a commute attached to the people in the West bank of the Hudson. Okay. I mean, I think, you know, right now car traffic into the city seems to be pretty close to normal because no one is using the train. Although I think it may have gone down again as the virus is spike back up again.
Speaker 4:Also, there's one more thing during the night I've driven to the city several times recently, there are a lot more trucks on the road and that's a whole divided. I'm not a fan of driving my truck. So I, um, I get the whole delivery. There are many more trucks than the rest of the traffic is different. And you're driving in, in particularly if you're driving on city streets, which, which I have, it is, uh, it is, it is a challenge to get past some of them as well. And that blocks traffic too. But on the highways, there are the truck traffic because of the evolution of our economy, which we are, where we, which we are witnessing right now, having a delivery economy, um, is, is mixed. The roads feel much different. Well,
Speaker 2:I mean, to that end, I think in Westchester, Rockland, you guys both have new, um, Amazon facility is in the works. Um, and you know, we were, I think as a region, we were just a year ago talking about the million square feet that was supposed to be developed in orange County and saying, that's Amazon, but Al you, you know, you always tell me about the last mile facilities that are being developed all over. So I think you have one in Rocklin. Right. And that's correct.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a whole other area that, that we, that we need to learn about and we will learn about,
Speaker 2:And by the way, that million square foot facility in orange County is under construction that has gone forward. Well, yes. And the one in, um, outside of Syracuse close to 40 million square feet, um, they, Amazon has not stopped building throughout this entire process. Is there, as they see this as a way to, you know, that this is going to continue people ordering online and, you know, do you remember when you used to order something in a catalog and say a lap, please allow four to six weeks for delivery. Well, now if you don't get it within one to two days, you're on the phone complaining the next day, the next day, I'm amazed by that.
Speaker 4:It is, it is definitely, I think that's going to be the biggest transformation of our economy that we've seen. And it's sad in many cases because it's going to put a lot of our, a lot of, you know, main street businesses and others out of business. And on the other hand, it's a whole other as a whole other part of the economy. So, you know, it's, you have to, you have to accept the new also, you know?
Speaker 2:Oh, so along those lines, let me ask both of you, have you used much cash now in the last nine months?
Speaker 4:Nope. Nope. Maybe to tip a driver, you know, um, now very, very little, very little cash, but I think I was using very little cash anyway.
Speaker 2:Well, yes. And then yes, but I think that even more so there are online on your iPhone, there's Venmo, there's a variety of ways that you can pal their variety. I'm sure you're using some of that for your events for people to okay.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, absolutely. And the other thing, frankly, the other thing is that, um, maybe I was late to the game with this one, but because frankly the postal service was so bad and every bill that I paid was getting lost in the mail, including today, I found out that a check was mailed to me on September 1st. It never got to me and it was permanent. She was from it, it was a dental insurance claim. It never got to me. So I said, this is it. I am doing my bills online. So I, and I, and I took the time and I learned how to do it. And I said, I was late to the game with it, but it is life altering. So you think about, you think about how we've all changed our habits. And even again, my 93 year old father lived with us for three and a half months and he was very nervous about his mail and now they're all online. He went online with it. So a lot of things have changed and more so it's not only the cash, it's the checks it's, you know, other a stamp,
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. I was going to send holiday cards and then I went, I said to my wife, I said, can we still buy stamps? And will it get to people, will the holiday card even get to people, you know, should I be writing on the card, you know, happy Martin Luther King day, because it's going to arrive like, you know, January 20th or something. Yeah. Um, a Marsh, you're a big fan of the movies. Did you see any, is the movie or movies the way you and I have always liked that movie? There's is that also going to change?
Speaker 4:I miss my movies so much and I miss I'm miss I miss going to the movies. I really do. I miss the theater. I miss the movies. I actually watched it theatrical production online. The other day was a production that the Irish repertory theater did have made me in St. Louis. And they really, really, really try. They really did. And it was amazing. Every, every actor was in a different city, but it didn't feel the same. You know, it didn't feel the same. It didn't didn't have the same, but I think that the movies are, I don't think they will be back in the same way. I think we've all gotten used to streaming. Um, and, um, you know, I think that it's, um, you know, I'm sad about it. I'm sad about it because it was a part of my, my life that I enjoy very much. And it was my time to really shut down and not be multitasking. I miss it. I miss the popcorn. Not the same.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not the same, but I think it was, it was funny because I think when Paula and I were first dating before my wife, before we met, you know, we were in Manhattan. So we go better get to that movie early because the line's going to be around the block. Well, and now you are, you're able to purchase tickets to allow you to even have your seat designated in most movie theaters. But it looks as if the future of movies is that you'll have a choice. Maybe if movies can still, the theaters can the business model consistent in itself, but you'll also be able to pay for the right to see it the day it's released online, but you'll pay more for it. Yeah. Um, any other predictions, any other thoughts about what we're going to look at? I mean, the vaccine to me, and this is, you know, this is certainly a great, a really nice place to end this conversation, which is, I think we're all pleased that there is a vaccine, several, actually companies have a vaccine that's starting to get out there and there's a sense of hope, but the way that they, they did this in everyone said, this was years back in March till you actually had a vaccine, but here we are with vaccines being shipped. And I think the first nurse in New York city was vaccinated this morning. Right. Yep. And you know, so you'd say, how did they do this? And you know, I've been reading about it, but how did they do this? They threw a lot of money at it. Everyone was working
Speaker 5:At it on the, you know, at the same issue. It may mean that other things were not worked on, but for now, let's be happy that they focused on this. Does this mean that other issues, some forms of cancer, some forms of other things, are, are we going to see a whole different approach to medicine maybe, and you know, how we approach, uh, you know, trying to save lives? Well, I think that, Oh, I'm sorry, Marcia. I think that's absolutely a potential. Then we should look forward to the technology that we've been speaking about at our level. Doesn't come close to the technology that was employed in getting us to vaccine distribution, you know, in, in nine months, uh, the guidelines that were set forth or FDA approvals, those were done many years ago and the world has changed and the technology has allowed the scientists to do what they did in this incredibly. What really seems like an incredibly short period of time. But I think when this started, we weren't thinking about how far along we were with technology and what could be accomplished. And I think now that now that we've see that it has worked and I believe in these vaccines, so I can't wait for when it's my turn and for my family to be able to get these things. I, I want this, uh, I think that the premise that you are putting out there is, is a good one because I think then we could say, all right, what's the next thing we're going to approach. And maybe we have to cherry pick, but I think that at least one at a time, or if you would have time, we're going to be able to move forward, work quickly in the near future than we have been for. God knows how many years they may have been working on things. And cancer is a good place to start.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. And look at and look at how proud we are in the Hudson Valley by Regeneron, amazing, you know, amazing that we, that that is our companies that have been on the cusp of inventing all this. And the other thing is that, you know, I've, I've listened a lot to Dr. Schleifer and Dr. Yancopoulos from Regeneron speak and, and they, and, and, and what they've learned can be applied as outset to other other diseases and what they learned in the past. Look, we gentleman worked on Ebola. You know, what they learned in the past was applied to this, but they've also learned a new way to work. And all of these companies have such dedicated, incredibly dedicated scientists working on this. And we have so much to them and to our health care workers and, you know, people, people that have worked, you know, on behalf of really the world to help save lives well,
Speaker 2:And let's take it from this incredible level of understanding how to find the vaccine to maybe some other habits of people washing their hands more frequently, the way that you, I don't know if the waiting room at a doctor's office will ever go back to the way it was, um, because you have an opportunity now to, you know, you, before you were clustered with people that may have been coughing, sneezing, whatever. I'm not certain it's going to go back to that version. We may have a mild flu season as a result of this because of, you know, while gas were isolated. And so that may, we'll have to sort through the statistics on this, but we may have actually found some better ways to look at health care. So, um, let me get, I know better, let me give a last word to you, Alan, to you, Marsha, anything you want to say goodbye to in 2020 or hello, to in 2021?
Speaker 4:Well, I think 2020 has been a difficult year and not only difficult in terms of the way that we work and the people that we've lost, um, the fear that we've had. But I think it's been, as, I think it's been a very difficult you're emotionally. And, um, many of us, you know, many of us have, have been there for each other, which is very, very good, many, many have been more open about their emotional health. Then I think anyone has ever been before and that it's been okay and that we've been there to support each other. So I think, I think if there's anything positive that comes out of this, I mean, there are other positive things. That's something positive, but I'm not sorry to see this year.
Speaker 2:And ag, are you looking forward to seeing your grandson? There you go. I have three grandsons and a granddaughter, but there's a lot of difference in their ages. The youngest attendance six, and God bless them. They're accomplishing wonderful things. And I get to see them on a, on a zoom or on a FaceTime, but until I can hold them, I'm not going to be a happy man. Not like I used to be. And so I'm looking forward that sometime in 2021, I can embrace my grandchildren again and Marsh. I know that, you know, you've got, you've got one and another one on the way, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. And you want to be able to, I remember being in, in the, in the waiting room right outside the delivery room
Speaker 5:And that the newborn infant not get clean and put in my arms, you know, what have to miss that. Yeah. That will live with me forever. So yes, I'm looking forward to that. Uh, it's not work-related, but I think that Marcia, you said it, you at least alluded to, we need to come back to who we are as people. And by the way, we all need to come back better than we were. Certainly that's something I wish for, uh, you know, in our nation. But when we come back feeling better as individuals, I think we're going to do better, you know, as, as professionals as well. And so I am looking forward to that. Jonathan Marshall Gordon, Al Sam, thank you so much for joining me.
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