Patterns & Paradigms | The Pattern Podcast
Patterns & Paradigms | The Pattern Podcast
Episode 015: 2020 - The Year in Review Part III with Gretchen Dykstra
Nothing represents New Year's Eve like the ball drop in Times Square. With its landmark theaters and vibrant super signs, this week we're talking about the vision and ambition it took to make Times Square the unique attraction it is today. As we explore the roots of this movement and the grit it took to get there, we look towards the future and consider the innovation that lies ahead. Hear the story behind saving the iconic New Year's Eve ball drop at Times Square as we usher in 2021.
This week's episode features Gretchen Dykstra, an accomplished leader who ran the highly visible and successful Times Square Business Improvement District and later served as Commissioner of the NYC Department of Consumer Affairs where she regulated small businesses and protected consumers.
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental change in the way we usually do things. We are intentionally choosing to see the silver lining opportunity arises. We can shine a light on the things that weren't working well on those things that weren't really working at all, we can regroup reevaluate and re-engineer it's time to explore new patterns and paradigms those that inspire us to rise above the chaos and explore how the conditions of today and take us to a better tomorrow patterns and paradigms the pattern podcast from Hudson Valley pattern for progress. You're listening to episode 15, 20, 20 the year end review part three with your host pattern, president and CEO, Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. And welcome to this week's episode of patterns and paradigms. This is our third in our series of wrap-up episodes for 2020. We hope you enjoyed the discussion between Joe Cheika and myself. As we tried to recap the year and look at what lies ahead as we complete our first season, I want to thank all of our guests and you the listener for helping us explore our theme. How did the events of 2020 possibly take us to a better place? So as this is a wrap-up show, I thought I would leave you with a couple of things to watch for in 2021. First of all, technology, the integration of technology in our lives happened so fast that what would have taken five or 10 years happened in the past nine months, and it was already happening quickly. So in 2021, let's see it, you know, the further movement from integration to permanence. As we like to say, this is a trend and not a bubble. Another one is as the vaccine reaches more and more people, there will be a desire to return to the way things were to some degree, this will happen when it is safe to move about the cabin. Socialization will return. Tourism will come bursting forth. We will once again, enjoy dining out. We will want to resume seeing each other, but there are two footnotes. First, the virus and its many manifestations will still be with us for most of 2021. We anticipate the number of deaths will decline dramatically, but for some, they will still be wearing masks. They will still be socially distancing and many will be suffering from a version of PTSD from what happened. And this is the second footnote. We don't completely return to the way it was. For instance, we used to go to work five days a week. We now stay home. And if we can, not, all of us have this luxury five days a week, where will the new equilibrium be workers who have shown they can complete their job remote remotely. We'll wonder why spend all those hours commuting. They can work from virtually anywhere. And therein lies the rub for employers and for getting urban density back to where it used to be. We're going to have to pay close attention to where equilibrium is heading second, coming out of the pandemic once. And for all we have to fix broadband, it is no longer a luxury. It is important as ensuring that you have, let's say electricity. It could be part of having a more equitable society. If everyone had equal access this year, we learned about telemedicine, a great equalizer. If you live in a rural area, virtual learning could continue as a supplement to in-person learning, enhancing, um, teaching for those that need a bit more time. And of course, remote work in order to do this, we must once. And for all sob solve the issue of broadband for all. And just one more healthy habits. Do we return to shaking hands now that we know we can reduce the spread of virus versus all viruses, not just COVID, but what changes as memory fades? And I think this is the important part of everything that happened this year. How do we take the good lessons and turn them into permanence? Some will be market driven. Some will be personal choice. So stay tuned for season two of patterns and paradigms. We have already put together a great lineup for January and February. All you need to do is to continue to subscribe and download us wherever you find your podcasts, such as Apple, Amazon music, Spotify, Google tune in and Stitcher. If you have any ideas for future topics and episodes, please send them to pattern for progress.org/podcast. Now for our guests, as this show airs the day before new year's Eve, we thought it would be fun to find someone who knew a great deal about the celebration in times square in New York for new year's. That person is Gretchen Dykstra. During the nineties, Gretchen ran the highly visible and successful time square business improvement district where she and her staff did everything from cleaning and patrolling the streets to advancing rezoning of porn shops to lowering the new year's Eve ball. Gretchen is all too familiar with the good and bad of time square area in New York city. We couldn't think of a better way to end our first season than with an accomplished author and someone who can take us behind the scenes of the world's most famous ball drop the new year's Eve celebration in times square, which will be a little bit different this year. And someone who is also a Hudson Valley resident. Hi, Gretchen, how you doing?
Speaker 3:We'll find Jonathan and you, the snow is still thick. We're waiting for the rain to get rid of it.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, but I think, I think at least where I live up in Sullivan County, we're going to have a white Christmas and for a lot of people, I think they could use a white card.
Speaker 3:Well, we're going to have a sloppy Christmas stamp floppy I'm in cold spring.
Speaker 2:That's true. And, and I think that's always important for our listeners to point out that cold spring is in Putnam County. And part of the Hudson Valley Sullivan County is Catskills Hudson Valley, but, um, we're there. So Gretchen I'm so delighted to do this. What is the third in our series of wrapping up the year? And I couldn't think of a better person to join us than someone who has the knowledge, the experience of time square, the ball dropping. And I, you know, so let's just start. I want to start first with time square and then let's get to the fun of the ball drop. But times square right now is it's hurting the theater district. I mean, but you, as you pointed out in a recent letter to the New York times, this is not the first time this happened. So why don't you just talk a little bit about your, you know, days with the business improvement district and what happened?
Speaker 3:Well, um, for that, we need to go back to the early nineties. Um, the times square business improvement district now called the time squirrel Alliance started actually on January 1st, 1992. Um, I was its first president. I chose to road right into time square on sanitation trucks that night to see what new year's Eve in times
Speaker 4:Square would look like. And the next morning we began operations out of a suite in the Marriott Marquis at that time. Uh, Jonathan you'll remember this well, um, times square was really suffering. Um, occupancy in the hotels was down to about 65%. Um, people, uh, theaters were hurting. Um, particularly people in New York city were not coming to the theaters in times square. Um, we had many, many restaurants that were shut and office buildings that were bankrupt. Um, petty crime was high and the streets were filthy and the reputation was in the gutter. And so the time square bid, I think it was the 12th bid in New York city was established to basically make times square, clean, safe, and friendly. And we worked closely with the city and the state, which was key at that point because they owned the property on 42nd street. So it's similar to today because of, uh, what's happening with COVID and the streets of times square are empty. Um, quality of life issues are becoming more problematic. Um, the hotels are really hurting. Restaurants are closed. Um, and I think that there will be, there are already similarities and I think the city and the private sector are going to have to, um, gear up once again.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that the context of what happened is very important for today and, and like, I think the basis of the description of time square that you gave really even finds its roots in the fiscal crisis in New York city, in the late seventies, which is what led to that decade of the eighties. That was, um, it was very diff New York city was shut out of the bond market. They didn't have the money to deliver services, but you and the, the business improvement district movement really became the adjunct of services. So that was, you know, security. It was cleanliness. It was, um, the beginning of marketing and the business improvement districts really helped rebuild the city by targeting. I mean, I don't know where we're, they're up to now. They're like you, you were the 11th, it must be close to 155.
Speaker 4:I think I heard that number reasonably. Um, and they range in size from very small,$50,000 a year to nine,$10 million a year times square of course, had a very handsome budget. Um, but there is no doubt in my mind that bids will emerge once again, as key to rebuilding and bringing back the city, I would add in in times square, there are two other elements that I think are often forgotten, um, or maybe not even know, which is that super signs were saved, um, back in the late eighties. And now if you are in the bow tie of time square, and you own a building, you have to, there's a whole formula of how many super signs you have to put on your building. Likewise, the theaters, the Broadway theaters are landmark. And so when you think about the centrality of times square, the sheer number of subways that go into times square, it's proximity to all of the business districts and you layer onto that landmark theaters and a requirement to give it the pizazz that is unique in New York. Um, you better, you better worry about it and you better save those three things. You better work to focus on quality of life, save the theaters and save the super signs. Otherwise you'll lose time square,
Speaker 2:You know, similar to your letter to the New York times. Um, I believe that, um, whether it comes back in a year or two years, or this is a multi-year issue, it comes back. I am a big fan and favorite of the city and that central core of time square and the theaters. First of all, we can't let it fail. And second of all, um, it's part of the reason why people come to New York and they come in big numbers and tourism is a big driver, but I've always had this image that there's, it comes back, but it might be different. So how have you reacted to the, the setting up of, uh, plazas for people to eat outdoors even before, uh, COVID it, was that something you ever thought about?
Speaker 4:Well, that ha that plan had been bouncing around for a long time and it was not high on our priority list, but I think once the streets became clean, safe, and friendly, um, it was time to sort of look at that. So that did not happen under my tenure. So I don't want to speak as if I'm an expert on it. I think that it has, I think for starters, traffic finds it's level. So I think the traffic problems were overstated and my guess is that they don't exist the way people feared. They did. Um, I think that under Tim Tompkins leadership, there have been nice additions made to that Plaza with the food trucks. Um, I think the city, from what I understand did not initially understand that to clean that big pro public space, you better figure out a way to enhance the revenues of the bid. Um, so there are problems, but I would also say that the red steps at the TDF, um, headquarters are now what gives that Plaza it's life. Those red stairs have become iconic. Um, it's where people flock. They sit, they watch the super scientists, they people watch.
Speaker 3:I think that in fact is what gives life to that Plaza. Um, but Jonathan, I want to say that I think that, um, I don't know if this will happen. I hope it doesn't happen, but in the landmark law, um, owners of buildings can actually apply for a hardship allowance and be written out of landmarks. And I hope that doesn't happen with the theaters. And, um, it's not clear to me. I know the Broadway league has been very active and they're saying they'll be back next year, but I guess we have to wait and see whether or not the public returns, but if the public doesn't come back in the same numbers, I hope the city holds strong and doesn't let any of the Broadway theater owners, um, apply to sell their buildings. That would be a disaster.
Speaker 2:It would be a disaster. But part of my, you know, I use this podcast to try to think of a little bit about how things can come back differently. So one vision that I have is that you essentially, the theaters are alive and vibrant, um, being very hopeful here. Um, it's a wonderful experience that I think people will want to do. Again, the signage, the big signs are, you know, they make every evening almost like new year's Eve. They're gorgeous and people love to come see them, but I'm thinking that there should be a multiple square block area that we ban traffic. You allow deliveries at night, but that you actually ban traffic. And I think we make it, the European Plaza that New York city partially, always wanted to be. That's my opinion. Um, and that, therefore, there's this, you've got to go see this and you can walk around in there and maybe you can take your bicycle in there, but that the theaters, the signs, which I totally agree with you Gretchen, they have to be there. Um, but that it's part of building back better in a way that says, no, you have to go back to New York. And we want to find a couple of those, um, areas of the city that people just put it back on there. You gotta go to New York city. And so, you know, back in the day, or now I know it's near and dear to you, um, are there other things that time square can do? Certainly the signage and certainly the theater, um, the safety issue. People have to feel safe about it. Um, any other thoughts about time square and what we do because it is the core, there's that iconic figure, I guess when world war II ended and you know, so the famous kiss, right, right.
Speaker 3:Um, look, it, I'm not an urban planner, Jonathan, so I don't want to get out ahead of people who are far more creative than me in thinking about what the future might hold. But I do think that the wonder about the resuscitation of times square in the nineties was that we built on the roots of the old and the old was understanding that it was busy. It was chaotic, it was creative. It was filled with, um, creative folks who had ambition. And so, um, I don't, I'm I'm, I would not put getting rid of traffic as the top of my list. I can that it's far more important to build on the roots of the old. And, um, I might add that when Morgan Stanley moved into a building at 47th and Broadway, they tried to get, um, an allowance from not having to put the super science in that building. And that was just in the mid nineties. And we went to bat and said, don't do this. And they were arguing that all well, those aren't our clients, our clients don't care about super signs. Well, the city held strong on that. And, um, people come to times square exactly for that vitality, for the vibrancy of it. They don't come to be quiet in a park. They come to see the action. So I think that, um, again, I go back to the three legged stool. You're going to have to have the private sector working carefully with the city, um, to find a balance between the grit, the life, the vibrancy, and an economic engine. And I'm not sure how to do it, but I do know the private sector will play an incredibly important role in that.
Speaker 2:We've spoken a lot during this podcast about the future, the nature of work and where is equilibrium. And so right now, you've gone from five days a week in the office, and there are commercial buildings throughout time square. And obviously as, as you've pointed out to me, uh, there are many subways that go in and out of that area. So if, um, we are returning to work, but people now are saying that you do, I really have to be there five days a week. It adds another whole dimension. And that's just not times square. That's all of New York city. And, and, you know, I'm, I'm curious, you know, you, you're entitled to your opinion on this where's equilibrium. Do you think we go back to five days a week in the office?
Speaker 3:I mean, I doubt that. Um, and so it's impact on commercial real estate, I think will be dramatic. Um, maybe it's a hybrid, maybe it's, um, you know, there are now residents
Speaker 4:In times square that started in the nineties when I was there. Eighth Avenue now has, I think my last recollection, there were something like 10,000 residents in the time square bid area, which goes to eighth Avenue to sixth Avenue. Maybe some of the hotels become residential. Maybe some of the hotels are half hotels, half residential that would bring them in a different mixture of retail. You, we haven't even talked about, what's going to happen to retail in the city. You know, we all focus on restaurants, but they'll probably be back, but I don't know if retail, as we know it is ever going to come back because of Amazon. So I take your point. It will shake out. Um, and it will survive if people recognize what makes it special, because I don't think it will survive. Um, if it's just another commercial district.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. And I think therefore, the quality of life, the super signs, protecting the theaters, bringing back broad bit Broadway. That is why that area. And, and, and yes, Gretchen, I will not ask you to opine about the rest of New York city, but I think that section is going to, I have great faith. I do. I think that section is really where you get to breathe a great deal of life back into the city. So let let's, let's go back to, I was trying to think, how do we talk about new year's Eve because this is near and dear to you. And so
Speaker 4:Perfect segue, Jonathan, because when the times square a bid started in 1992 on January 1st one, time square was in bankruptcy and Arthur Sulzberger, who was the chairman of my board, said to me on January 1st, 1992, we said, Gretchen, your most important job is saving new year's Eve in times square. Um, and so we had to move into high gear because that building and a lot of people don't know this, the ball is owned by the building owners of one time square. Um, and so that's part of the interesting story of bringing back, um, times square included, bringing back and keeping safe the ball. Um, now w why did it matter? You might say one of the things we had to take a look at, because when the building went into bankruptcy, the court appointed a special master and her job, as you would know, better than me is to maximize the profit of the owners of a bankrupt building. And they had been approached by a large corporation to sell the ball. I don't know if it was true that it was bare asprin, but that was the rumor that was going around. Um, and we thought, wow, that would be a disaster, right. Would send all the wrong messages to what we were trying to do in times square. So the first thing at that time, by the way, the ball was lowered by hand, by a sign company that the owners hired to just lower the ball. And it was the same event year after year. And it was losing market share in the, um, from the TV networks. Um, they were no longer staying in times square, very long. The ball would come down and they'd immediately cut to Las Vegas. They'd go to Orlando, they'd go to LA. And times square was losing television market share to say nothing of it had become kind of a whole home event and the building was bankrupt. Um, so the first thing we did was we did an economic impact study in 19, in the following year to try to get a handle on what was the economic impact of new year's Eve in times square. And we hired a polling firm to come up with the questions we used our public safety officers to gather the responses. And then we hired Ernst and young, I think to actually crunch them. And if I remember correctly, we were able to determine that even with the concerns behind the scenes of what was happening, um, that that event was worth some 31,$1 million to the city of New York in terms of hotel States, restaurant meals, souvenirs, transportation. Um, so with that information, we went to the special master and said, look at this as an economic driver of one night in New York. And in times square, if you sell it to the highest bidder, that's a short-term strategy. That is in fact that occurred all the property owners in times square. But then we had to realize, well, we better keep then the television cameras interested, how do we keep them focused in times square? And that's started, um, a subtle, but I think important shift. Um, we not only we took over the ball lowering, which was somewhat controversial, but the bid needed to control the message coming out of new year's Eve at time square, we shift, we got the city to, this is thanks to Peter Coleman, who was my head of marketing and is a genius. He got the city to shift the fireworks and central park. So you could come to times square, you could see the ball lower, you could spin on your, on your back heel, and then see this fireworks in central park. We added the lights so that now when the ball comes down, the lights all around, we, we wired them on all the rooftops and we began throwing confetti. And I know all of that sounds pretty simple, but it was all aimed at keeping the television cameras in times square. We provided them with all of the tip sheets about what they were going to see. And of course what's happened is that, um, that is the go-to place for all of, um, the big networks. They still, in fact, they'll be there this year. They're building their stages. They're going to have performers. There won't be any audience because of COVID, but that's where people throughout the country, including the Hudson Valley will watch the ball come down and then their eyes, thanks to the TV cameras. We'll stay focused in times square, which is good for the owners of the people who own those super signs. Um, it's all part of a whole. So a big piece of our job was cleaning the streets, patrol the streets, work with the city, but promote the city and times square on new year's Eve is, is one of the best ways to bring people back to a time square in years going forward.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree with you more. There is an, uh, you know, there are very few people that probably don't look for their television if they're not in times
Speaker 4:Square, which we'll talk about that
Speaker 2:In a little bit. But so if in keeping with the spirit of the season, so as opposed to the Grinch who stole Christmas, we might entitle this episode, how Gretchen's saved new year.
Speaker 4:That's a little in modest, but it was fun. It was a group effort. Remember all the property owners let us on their rooftops. They let you can be a confetti thrower. Um, by the way, there are 150 people every year who volunteer, we put them on the rooftops and they, and they out of cannons throw the confetti. It's become kind of an in thing to get yourself as a confetti thrower. All of it was part of, I think, I think for some of your listeners, Jonathan, it's, it's a lot of fun to know and sort of behind the scenes, but I want it,
Speaker 2:So do that. Let's take me behind the scenes because one of the things that, you know, the city always takes pride in is that within 24 hours, it's all cleaned up and you wouldn't know anyone was there. But so what happened from, you know, when does the planning start? You know, it's
Speaker 4:It's weeks, right? Oh, it's months, months. And it's done in conjunction with, um, a guy who actually is hired by one time square. The owners, um, James town in Sherwood equities owns one time square now. So the times square bid, the Alliance works in conjunction with, um, a guy named Jonathan Strauss. Um, and we'd get begin planning the ball. The ball is, you know, it's gone through many changes, so it lights up now. And it's Waterford crystal. The planning with the property owners starts, um, a couple of months before the event, they began to recruit. They have to the balloon guy that can, Betty Guy is in LA. He begins his work recruiting volunteers. It's all recyclable confetti, by the way, the lighting, all of the wires have to be brought in, um, the bid, at least in when we were there negotiated with all of the television cameras who would get where Dick Clark was still alive in those days, by the way were there. But I don't want to forget the New York city police department because they are the ones that actually brought in the old days, times square new year's Eve was actually could be a pretty rough place. And, um, the New York police department did a masterful job bringing order to the fund. Um, so they put up those big pens and usually shuts down by five o'clock in the afternoon. The pens, if you come in, you're not allowed to leave. And if you leave, you can't come back in. Um, all the side streets are all organized by the PD where they'll be open. Um, they patrol 10th Avenue and, um, sixth Avenue. Um, so the PD gets rolled. The high marks are keeping it safe. And the bid in the nineties I get, think gets credit for producing the great event. And of course the networks and another thing people might be interested in is we consciously made an effort not to just allow one network in. If you had just given the rights to one network, you would actually no longer make it a universal event. They would be competing with them
Speaker 3:One another for who's going to have the best stars they do now, but you'll see ABC and CNN, they're all there in a LA in a row, NBC Univision. Um, so it's actually, you know, if you believe that neighborhood has said work together or neighborhoods that work times square on new year's Eve is a great example of that.
Speaker 4:Um, so, uh, the ball is now computerized. Um, the more permanent right there is, uh, it's permanent
Speaker 3:In the building on the building, I think sometimes opens it up. We also made a decision back in the nineties not to overdo it. Um, what makes it special is that it's once a year, it's not like every Saturday night, you can go to times square and watch the ball. Although people do come in to see where it is. They keep it tongue, but it doesn't look
Speaker 4:Or night after night. Um, and so it's a very off my first,
Speaker 3:I think it was in 1993, we also introduced the idea of a special guest
Speaker 4:To push the button. It was your favorite.
Speaker 3:David was number one and she, her name was Oceola McCarthy. And she was an 87 year old African-American woman from Mississippi
Speaker 4:Who had been a housekeeper. And she gave her
Speaker 3:All of her money to old miss. She had saved something like$185,000.
Speaker 4:And we read about her and we tracked
Speaker 3:Her down and we asked her if she would come and be the first person
Speaker 4:That hit the button. There never been a button before to lower the ball. And
Speaker 3:Jonathan was great. She had no TV. She had no radio. He had no know anything about new year's Eve in square. We brought her, she came up with an, um, somebody from old miss. We had a press conference. Um, all these cameras were focused on her. And one reporter said, how is it possible that somebody, a laundry woman from Mississippi saved$185,000? And she smiled at the cameras and said, compounded interest. We put her in a golf cart and we took her all around times square on the night of new year's Eve. And that night she pushed the button, which of course is an illusion of lowering the ball. So, um, she was my favorite, I think, for a whole host of reasons. But I think that we wanted to send a message that, um, new year's Eve in times square as a place for everybody. And it's a soulful place, it's a fun place. And it's a time to recognize the unsung people, as well as the best known people.
Speaker 2:Great story. And what a great, and were there others that you remember from, you know, that were selected?
Speaker 3:Well, the fall, the next year we did, um, a school kid, um, one from each borough. So there were five elementary school children and we thought it was important to highlight then. And then to tell you the truth, a third year in, um, Rudy Giuliani was a mayor and he tried to assert more control over the event and it became more and more of a shock, hard to shock. He wanted to push the button. Um, so, uh, it's then segwayed into sort of, uh, presidents and the like ever since. Um, my favorite is, um, the unsung heroes and I think that's who it's going to be this year. I, by the way, I think it's going to be frontline workers from hospitals
Speaker 2:As well as it should be. Um, I think in doing so well, wait, wait, there's so many things I want to ask you. So, um, what was it, do you recall, although you, I don't think you were with the bid anymore nine 11 and what, see two things I want to ask you. One is about that year, because everything that happened after nine 11 was special. The Yankees in the world series, there was a big concert for New York city with every major rock and roll star, but, you know, it was sort of breathing life back into the city. And I would expect that this would have been one of those things. Okay. This is another sense of normality, but also we're, aren't you the first, um, CEO executive director of the nine 11 found dation or museum?
Speaker 3:Oh, the national nine 11 Memorial foundation and museum. I was, but that didn't start until 2005. I was living in California at the time
Speaker 4:Of nine 11. Um, I cannot remember, and I'm not sure. I even know Jonathan, we had started Broadway on Broadway in 1990 when the Democrats came to New York. Um, the bid had started Broadway on Broadway, which was a celebration of the opening of the Broadway season every September in times square. And it unfortunately no longer exists. And I don't know whether or not it was still active in 2001, I think it was. And my hunch is, is that there was a Broadway on Broadway after nine 11, but I can't be sure about that. It might've happened before Broadway on Broadway, no longer exists, which I think is a shame. Um, but that's another story.
Speaker 2:All right. And then the, the other thing in researching, this was in only if it had this right 1942 in 1943, or the only years that the ball didn't drop. And that was due to some requirements to dimly lit
Speaker 4:The city or something it had to do with second world war. Right? Well, but the ball remember the first three years of new year's Eve in times square, after the times, the New York times moved to times square, they moved to one time square. They renamed Longacre square times square. They actually had fireworks for three years and then it was determined that was not safe. So the ball dropped began in 1907 and you're right. It's only, it's been every year, except for those couple in, I thought you were going to get asked about the millennium. Um, because that was also another, let's ask about the millennium that we began organizing, Oh, I think a year and a half before. And we decided that since time square was modestly, the crossroads of the world, we should figure out a way to celebrate new year's Eve around the world. And so we posted in a variety of outlets, a contest for who could come up with the best way to celebrate the millennium in times square. And a woman from San Francisco actually won because she suggested that, um, using our screens, you know, if you come to times square, you can see the ball drop on screens that go all the way up Broadway and seventh Avenue. That was another initiative that we started. She suggested that we run those screens 24 hours a day, and that we highlight, um, new year's Eve has a went around the world and that's what we began to plan. And that took a lot of planning, um, and a lot of coordination. And, um, I left the bid in 1999 and the San Francisco. Um, and if it was the truth was known, I couldn't, I had had it with planning new Eve in time, but it came and I came back for it and it was terrific. And, um, there was dancing in times square on the stages and yes, it was 24 hours on those screens starting somewhere in the South Pacific. And it went around the world. Um, that was pretty fabulous.
Speaker 2:And, and, and while I look forward every year to, you know, I guess I watch Anderson Cooper now and, and like Anderson doing, um, uh, the ball drop. Are there other places in the world that have now, or do have good traditions for their ball drop that you can relate to, even when you were in San Francisco, the San Francisco do anything?
Speaker 4:Well, I, um, I hope nobody else is doing a ball drop. There are other cities. In fact, once I would, I'm going to say 1996, maybe where, um, I was being interviewed by one of the TV networks about the planning. And to me, they had also invited the mayor of Las Vegas because they were really nipping at our heels. So Las Vegas does a lot of stuff, but I don't know what they drop. Orlando does stuff. It's parties of different kinds. And in fact, um, I think that people who have, um, a special event in their history should really build on that special event and not try to either copy somebody else's or mimic another one, they should build off what they have. That goes back to that lesson that I think we learned in times square. Um, the new times square is built on the roots of the old time square. And that's what makes it wonderful, allows you to promote it that way. Um, so there are other new year's Eve events that are terrific, but none that, that drop a ball that can touch on someone. And, um, and by the way, Jonathan, you'll get a kick out of this. One of the things we discovered we did that economic impact study twice, is that something like 25% of the people who come to times square for new year's Eve, they hope there'll be on TV. That's why they come 25% think that they might be on television. We, our sense was that that was what was bringing them, not just the ball, but also the experience
Speaker 2:Brilliant. And so the, all these people hold up little signs and they do that, hoping that the camera will focus on them. Oh
Speaker 4:Yeah. And the bid hands out, those things, um, that's part of the sponsorship, but the bid handed out the Palm palms, the bid hands out to the hats they wear, um, in order to get the cameras to focus on the crowd. Um, it's the crowd that gives it the vitality.
Speaker 2:Um, it is a special event and I know how hard you worked for many, many years to produce this. And, um, I hope you get to enjoy this years. Um, and is there anything else that you'd like to leave as a message for new years since this show will air the day before new year's Eve? Well, we'll all be home watching it. Um, and we might have quiet new year's Eve, but thank God there'll be a new year's Eve in times square that will Mark the beginning of what we all hope will be a wonderful year. Let's hope it's a peaceful and healthy one. And, um, and a quiet one in some ways I couldn't agree with much, but you're very welcome Gretchen, and I'll, I'll add that on behalf of patterns and paradigms. This is Jonathan Dropkin wishing everyone at a healthy, happy, and in just the small way, if it could be a little bit better new year, that would be terrific for all of us. So, uh, thank you for joining us in our first season and, um, we'll be back next year.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning in to patterns and paradigms the pattern podcast. For more information about this episode, visit our website pattern for progress.org forward slash podcast.