Patterns & Paradigms | The Pattern Podcast
Patterns & Paradigms | The Pattern Podcast
Patterns & Paradigms | Season 2 Episode 04: Film Production & Job Creation with Mary Stuart Masterson
The Hudson Valley is naturally cinematic. Seeing the opportunity to drive the local economy through expansion of the Hudson Valley’s growing film and tv production capacity, Mary Stuart Masterson has made the Hudson Valley her home, founding Stockade Works and Upriver Studios. This week we're exploring film production, job creation, and the film and tv ecosystem developing in the Hudson Valley with Mary Stuart Masterson.
This week's episode features Mary Stuart Masterson, Founder & President of Stockade Works and Upriver Studios, LLC., and Partner at Quality Pictures. After decades in front of the camera, Mary Stuart moved to the Hudson Valley in 2006 when she directed her first feature, The Cake Eaters. After a hiatus to start her family, Mary Stuart moved to New York’s Hudson Valley and founded Stockade Works, a non-profit that trains, hires and mentors the local workforce in film production across all departments. In addition, Mary Stuart is the Founder of Upriver Studios, a state of the art soundstage complex opening in the Hudson Valley, and co-Founder of Storyhorse Documentary Theater Company.
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental change in the way we usually do things. We are intentionally choosing to see the silver lining opportunity arises. We can shine a light on the things that weren't working well on those things that weren't really working at all, we can regroup reevaluate and re-engineer it's time to explore new patterns and paradigms those that inspire us to rise above the chaos and explore how the conditions of today and take us to a better tomorrow patterns and paradigms the pattern podcast from Hudson Valley pattern for progress. You're listening to season two, episode four, film production and job creation with your host pattern, president and CEO, Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. And welcome to this week's episode of patterns and paradigms. Today, we will be joined by the actor and director and so much more Mary Stuart Masterson. We're just a great conversation about the film industry and what she's been up to in her ventures in the Hudson Valley, please remember to subscribe to our power podcast and if you enjoy it, why not share the episode with a friend and ask them to download it wherever they find their favorite shows this week's bubble or trend in the midst of a pandemic. Many people have resorted to grocery delivery, certainly Instacart. And though it probably doesn't apply in the Hudson Valley Amazon's, uh, advertisement that you could have your food delivered within two hours. And then the little print in the commercial is, you know, that you're in a, uh, a larger city. I don't think they're going to be able to do it where I live in Sullivan County. Is it a bubble or is it a trend when we returned to normal? Do people want to go back to, as I would say, browsing in the supermarket, or is it going to be the growth of other kinds of food delivery, like HelloFresh, which gives you the entire meal planned out for you? So is it a bubble or a trend we ask, but before we get to our guests, let's ask my partner at pattern. What's up, Joe, Hey Joe, we just started, uh, the beginning of these working groups, uh, to address different issues in, uh, uh, Hudson Valley. As we begin to see our way past the pandemic, what comes to mind as to some of the issues that you think we need to?
Speaker 3:Well, one thing comes to mind as it always does. Housing housing, housing prices have clearly skyrocketed since probably June or July of last year and every single County we are seeing median prices go up drastically in Columbia County. It's, it's going up by a hundred thousand dollars, uh, over, over last year. Um, so it is a huge issue. Uh, it's not just the price going up, but you know, the, the other big, big concern is the eviction moratorium. You know, let's say, um, it, it's a wonderful tool to keep people protected and in place, but at some point the rank does come due and we'll go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but, but, but I think if we're going to make this work in a way that's beneficial for the future of the Hudson Valley, we have to almost stratify the housing market that there is a need, and there is a demand at the high end that we know that we could go to the middle. You know, we, you and I have always thought that Montgomery and orange County keeps growing and maybe they're in the middle and we must pay attention to the need for lower income housing. That is a good place to live
Speaker 3:Well. That's right. And one thing we got to make sure of is that the local municipality is ready for the housing. Do they want to grow? We need to ask these questions. Um, what, what are there, what is a local capacity to grow? Do they have water and sewer? Are they ready for a little bit of an increased traffic pattern, perhaps, you know, with housing changing? So does the use of the housing change as remote work has picked up over the last year and people moving into homes are probably going to be looking for office space and exercise and recreation space within the house. So the challenge is the dynamic of that.
Speaker 2:It does, it does, but let's stay with remote work for a second here. You and I both saw a piece on Sunday morning, which is suggesting that there is a new calculus for where one should want to live. And, and the segment we saw was suggesting that if you were to factor in the issue of climate change and remote work, then all of a sudden what the computer spits out is places like Madison, Wisconsin, or Cleveland, Ohio, or here in New York, Buffalo. And I will argue the Hudson Valley become places that are highly desirable.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Our, our North shore. So to speak around the great lakes becomes the new coast, which, which is fabulous for those cities. You know, it's, it's cold and, and as long as you are, um, appropriately clothed, you'll do fine. But the Hudson Valley, um, those stand out as, uh, you know, the significantly less issue here with climate change, does it happen? Do we have severe storms? Yes. But as compared to other places with extreme temperatures and wildfires and droughts, and we're, we're in a pretty good spot, Hudson Valley is in a pretty good spot,
Speaker 2:Right? So that means that, you know, we're going to have to focus a lot of attention on broadband. And this is an issue that involves the remote work. It involves people working from, you know, from home at high incomes. It involves low-income people when they had to switch to virtual learning and they couldn't have access to broadband. Um, I think broadband is, is now one of the, if not the most important, broadly speaking infrastructure, either
Speaker 3:It, it is. And, and broadband, you know, globally speaking, are we served? Yes. But the important part to analyze is that last are we, are we globally served?
Speaker 2:I know you were breaking up a little bit there. Okay. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. Wait, wait. Oh yeah. So you have to look at what they consider the last mile and that's the most important part of broadband is how do you get that fiber cable to the last house on the block? And in rural areas, it's a big concern, but without it, we're going to be behind, we're definitely going to fall behind. So we need to look at the issue, get ahead of the issue and make these changes now.
Speaker 2:Well, so housing, broad ban, um, remote work, uh, uh, work, which, which let's go one step over in the spectrum of, uh, work to work force. We have got to think about the workforce in the Hudson Valley very differently,
Speaker 3:For sure. You know, the Hudson Valley has always looked at, you know, tourism and accommodations and entertainment as, as a, as a big sector. It's a big employer here. Of course, we all know that a vast majority of those jobs don't pay a living wage rate. So with that sort of exposed during COVID, we've got to analyze that and take a look at it and say, what are the other jobs, um, that, that we can have here in the Hudson Valley. And also, how do we, I hate to use this term because it's overused so much, but how do we pivot from someone who's working in tourism or the hospitality section into a different type of job that may and hopefully would pay a higher wage?
Speaker 2:Well, and, and I would say that with regard to tourism hospitality, the restaurant industry, they are part of the amenities that make the Hudson Valley a great place to live, work and play. So we have to figure out maybe a better way to look at it is how do we ensure that there are career paths in those sectors so that people can get to higher paying jobs and enjoy a better quality of life because they were among the hardest hit during COVID and you have to wonder build back better in those sectors. Well, okay. Yes, we want them to come back, but they've got to have a higher wage.
Speaker 3:They do. And that's why it's really important when, when we're pulling together our economic development officials, that our workforce development officials, and we're starting to, to understand how those are so synergistic and how it's so important that they talk to one another, as we're pivoting from one industry sector to another and career paths from one to another. Um, but the other, the other important element of workforce to understand COVID or non COVID is the fact that we're losing a big segment of the population in services like water and sewer operators. And I think it's really important that people understand the things that you count on every day of turning on your faucet or flushing your toilet. Somebody at the other end, or at the beginning of that end is taking care of that issue. And as those folks are looking to retire, it's institutional knowledge that could go away and we need to make sure that that stays.
Speaker 2:And, and I think that you've hit upon a really good point, which is as the boomers start to age out their retirements among nurses, their retirements among teachers, their retirements in every sector. And we need to figure out what we're going to do to, uh, backfill. And where's the bench strain coming from for a lot of these, uh, positions. And so I think, um, we're going to return to this issue many times over the course of this year, and as always, Joe, thanks for your insights. And now let me introduce our guests. Thank you, JD, uh, Mary Stuart Masterson, what a pleasure to have her join us? Well, many of you know her for her film career, we at pattern appreciate and know her for her efforts to amplify the film and television industry in the Hudson Valley. Her two ventures, stockade works in Kingston and upper river studios in Socrates, both in Ulster County here in the Hudson Valley are Mary Stuart's effort to create sustainable jobs in the production side of the film industry. We are pleased that, uh, she's kind of be with us for the next 40 minutes to talk, not just about what she's working on and how she's trying to, uh, assist the economy with better paying jobs here in the Hudson Valley,
Speaker 4:But in a very creative way, but also the disruption that has occurred to the film industry and what may come next, Mary Stuart, how are you doing? And, and how has almost, it's incredible to seem it's almost a year now of living with COVID.
Speaker 5:Well, um, fortunately I haven't personally been living with COVID directly, so I've been very lucky. I feel very lucky that, um, none of my family has been sick. Um, but yeah, no, it's been a really intense period of time and I've been, um, you know, trying to count my blessings here. I have four kids and I'm homeschooling them right now and a donkey and a puppy and bunnies. And, you know, it's, there's a lot and there's no break. There's no let up. So with all that going on, um, you know, trying to eke out time to also work, uh, on stockade works and up river studios, which, you know, I know we'll talk about in a second, it's been, it's been challenging. It's like, you know, hide in the closet, um, hide in the bathroom, hiding your minivan to like have a zoom conference call, you know, um, yeah, it's, it's been an intense time and of course, you know, film and television production completely shut down for a while there. And that was, and has been, um, you know, just a personal challenge, you know, uh, as a, as a multihyphenate person, I, you know, it's, it's, it's very, it's very challenging, um, for artists and makers, um, who require people to gather to watch them or, um, or even gathered to film. So it it's, um, things are coming back, but it's been challenging
Speaker 4:And, and we'll, I think we'll get into each level of that. Um, so obviously you've had a, you know, a very interesting career as an actress and involved in the film industry, but the reason we wanted to talk to you today is because of your efforts to bring that industry to the Hudson Valley. So let me just start, how did you find us in the first place? Um, did you, you didn't grow up in the Hudson Valley?
Speaker 5:No, I grew up in New York city, uh, the, the child of two, um, actors and, uh, teachers writers people of the theater. And, um, we did venture out of the city on occasion, but, um, uh, and you know, it's not like I, I hadn't been out of, out of even the Westchester area or the immediate surroundings of the city. Um, but it was in 2006 when I, um, was going to direct my first feature film, uh, which is really what I wanted to focus most on. I, um, I looked for locations up in the Hudson Valley because it just seemed like a better fit with the material. Um, and I've found Catskill Hudson, um, Hudson, which was really just in its first wave of its own Renaissance, um, and, uh, bought a house and actually, um, you know, settled down, down in the Hudson Valley back in 2006, because I had made a film here and it was so, uh, obviously cinematically. Um, it was so beautiful and, um, and also just varied in its, uh, and it's, um, you know, culture and also it was cultural, rich. It was also rural. It was, it also had, you know, these little cities of Hudson Poughkeepsie, Kingston, uh, and it sort of had everything and, and then the river itself, and I grew up, like I said, in, in Manhattan and the place I would go hang out was the metropolitan museum of art because it, uh, you know, uh, my parents were in the theater and I just had to figure out how occupy myself. So at a certain age, I would go to the mat all the time and wander into the, um, and wing, you know, and there were all those amazing, uh, Frederic church things and Thomas Cole paintings and, you know, living up in the Hudson Valley, I'm looking at that painting every day. And, um, so yeah, I really pretty much fell in love with the land escape, um, back in 2006. And then in 2013, uh, when I had my fourth child within three and a half years, I, uh, I could not be in the city and up in a country. I just couldn't manage it anymore. I really couldn't afford it anymore. So I, um, I sold both the house that I had purchased in the country and the place in the city and moved to Duchess County, um, which is sort of in the middle cause I had been in Northern Columbia County. So, um, yeah, that's when I came here full time and, uh, it is, it has been, um, really extraordinary to be able to raise my kids here. And that's in part why, um, why I found it stockade works, the nonprofit that's focused on workforce development and training, um, which focuses and prioritizes access and inclusion and ethnically and racially diverse, um, people if possible. Um, and, and the focus of my life became, um, nurturing the place that was going to nurture me and my kids. Um, uh, and I really wanted to grow deeper roots in the Hudson Valley and maybe bring opportunity to the place that was, um, giving me so much at this stage in my life. So, um, in 2016, I founded stockade works, um, in order to really build the crew capacity locally. And by that, I mean, you know, all the people who work on the set, like the 80 to 150 people who get jobs, doing bizarre things, it's a big thing,
Speaker 4:Right. As a movie fan. It's the thing that I always look at at the very end that seems to go very quickly and there's like a hundred or 200 names of people, but those are really good jobs.
Speaker 5:There are great jobs. And, you know, I mean, I guess they're classified as middle skill jobs. And, uh, you know, there are a lot of people who have transferable skills. Um, maybe they, uh, graduated from both CS and no, um, having an OSHA certification in, in, uh, you know, something electrical or, or welding or mechanics or something. And, and they can actually transfer those skills with a stock aid works training to be ready to go on set and, uh, work on a movie or a TV show and eventually join the union. That's where the real upside is. And I can tell you right now in getting back to COVID, if I didn't have membership in the unions that I'm in, I wouldn't have health insurance. I wouldn't, I'd be so out of luck. Right. So it's really for, for people who work in our industry, um, it's the way to really have a, you know, a real career and be on a career pathway rather than be just gig to gig. And, um, so yeah, so stockade works is there and is designed to identify for people what skills they already have, and then also give them training in the areas that they're interested in, um, and then provide mentorship after the training and referrals to jobs. And meanwhile, you know, also trying to attract those productions to the region so that there are jobs for those people we've trained. And, uh, so the whole idea, um, in, in stockade works and up river studios was to create, um, a new media ecosystem for the Hudson Valley, um, building on what was already here, um, you know, a robust, independent film, um, business, you know, and, and the wonderful work at the Woodstock film festival, you know, for years nurturing, um, the cinephile and the independent, um, filmmakers of the world, and really my thought to scale it so that we could create more economic development, um, from television shows, uh, that might stay longer, employ more people and really help the economy. Uh, and as, as I started to do more of this, I thought, okay, so an ecosystem needs training and it needs facilities to be scaled and it needs more locally produced content. So all of those things have been the, the sort of three facets of this ecosystem that I've been focusing on. And the first was the training was stock aid works. The second was up river studios, which is just now opening and Saugerties. And the third was just my own production company that I'm finally getting back to the thing that I'm re you know, really that I really want to be doing creatively, which is writing, directing, producing, and acting. Um, so that's, uh, you know, the third facet, which is, um, uh, quality pictures, my production company.
Speaker 4:So, um, stockade works is the first one. How'd you get the name?
Speaker 5:Uh, you know, uh, the Scott, the stockade district and, uh, in Kingston. Yeah. And then later I thought, well, the stock K that could have negative connotations, but, you know, I was just, I was thinking hyper-local and, um, you know, we're going to break, we're going to break free of the shackles of our, uh, limitations that have been imposed upon us and, uh, and break free from the stockade of our own, you know, I don't know. Yeah. It, it, it's, that's how we got the name.
Speaker 4:All right. But then you go, you go from Kingston to sororities and what it was, the evolution of stockade works to say, the next thing we need is what, describe what up river.
Speaker 5:So, um, so stockade works, you know, the training mentoring, um, the not it's a not-for-profit up river studios is a sort of phase two of the ecosystem and this idea, and it is 104,000 square foot, um, space that is, uh, soundstage, um, offices post-production suites and the spaces that support filming of a, of a certain scale. So, um, you can film an independent movie out of a minivan and your aunt Bessie's house, and right, we can do this, what we love to do. If you're doing a TV show and it's going to be there for years, you really need a lot of sets and you need to be, you need twice, sometimes three times as much support space, meaning space to store props and wardrobe and space to have, uh, the next episodes of director doing their prep and the last episodes director editing or wrapping out of his episode or her episode. And then you need the current episode team to be working. And then all of this requires that you have, uh, you know, also dressing rooms and hair and makeup, Swedes, all the, all the things that, that, uh, need to be a little needed, a little bit more space than, um, than an independent movie. And so, uh, we, we have a very large facility and, um, the, the reason Saugerties, um, I love Saugerties. Uh, I just wanted to make sure it was somewhere between Hudson Kingston and Poughkeepsie, um, because, um, our friends down in Newburgh have Umbra and they're doing a terrific job down there, but we really wanted to sort of serve this Delta of these, these cities a little bit further up the river, hence the name up river. And, um, you know, we're really trying to, uh, make sure that, uh, production feels like it has everything it needs every time a producer is looking for a place to land a bigger project. The first question they ask is, is there crew? And the next question is, are there stages, or are there hotels, or, you know, the things that they need to put their crew, uh, you know, in the location, in our case, we've built the crew with stockade works a little bit more than what it was when we were first here, but get this process by in, by several hundred and then COVID happened. And, um, you know, we were just about to swing hammers at up river studios to begin the upfit of this facility. And they sh we got shut down literally the Friday before the Monday, we were shut down and, you know, um, there was, there was a collective, um, holding our breath for a minute. Like, what the heck have we done here? And then, you know, you know, our, our cooler minds prevailed and we realized that actually, um, actually people need more space than ever, and they need to be able to spread out more because they need to cycle crew through and on and off of the set more than they used to. It used to be, everybody's sort of crowd in one room jam together, and the actors would walk through that and do the scene and walk back through that crowd of people, to their dressing room or, or, um, trailer, whatever. And now you have to work in different, uh, access zones. So it's almost like, uh, like a backstage pass, right? The people who have the all access pass are the people who are in close contact with the actors, and they're tested more frequently and have certain, uh, almost like a, almost like a pod. Right? Yeah. And then, um, other departments, let's say the people who are go in before, um, the actors like the set decorator, and usually the set decorator works alongside, but they have to work separately in sequence. Now you have to sort of dress the set. Here's your, here's your clock. Here's that picture on the wall, check it with camera, everybody's wearing shields and masks. And then those people leave and have to be well away from the set before the actors come in. And so, uh, so different groups, uh, different departments are allowed on set at different times and need to clear out and go somewhere else. Right. And then those people need to be socially distant from other crew members. So you actually need quite a bit more space to sort of cycle everybody through, uh, feed them, uh, keep them offset, bring them onset it it's, it's, it's, um, rambling, but it, it is, it is requires more space. And, um, so it's worked in our favor in essence, because all the soundstages in the city, we're already at capacity and they're building more right now. Uh, but we knew that there was a demand. We knew that television is having its platinum age. We all know the streamers are killing it, uh, but also, um, uh, content, every studio is, um, making content for any platform. So, um, you know, you might think a and E only makes, you know, a show for a and E, but a and E studios could sell to Netflix, Amazon Hulu, or put it on a and E. So everybody's in the studio business, everybody's in the streaming business now, and everybody is just dying to make content because there's such a demand for it now more than ever. And because of the shutdown, there's a pent up demand. And so that also was going to work in our favor. We felt because, um, we thought, well, when it opens up and when we finish construction, there is a demand and we will, we will end up having a large show, come to our stages.
Speaker 4:All right. So take a breath there for a moment. And let's just, let me just be clear, um, being home, working remotely, it just seems like there is endless things being streamed at the moment where did all that come from? If so many places are shut down, is there an inventory of gee we're about to release the next series or something, but every time I look at yeah. Here's another thing that we're about to premiere.
Speaker 5:Well, in fact, um, yes, yes and no. Um, there was a big pipeline of productions that had been either finished or mostly finished that might've been shut down that maybe just needed to, uh, to film the last couple of episodes, let's say. And so they did a ton of post-production on all the, all the work that was in the can and, um, staggered the release of these, these shows. Um, and yeah, and then when it started to come back, when, uh, production opened up again, it was largely a lot of shows, um, moved to, um, to Eastern Europe. Some people went to New Zealand, a lot of shows, went to Canada, uh, because they had really good quarantine rules and, uh, very low case numbers. And, and it was the pickle really was how will, uh, the insurance, uh, work? You, you have to have insurance on a production, right. Um, if you're, uh, you can't get a bond or get your production insured, if nobody knows who's responsible for, for a COVID shutdown. Sure. Right. So that was a big, that was a big, um, question for months. And, uh, Netflix, you mentioned, um, Netflix, for example. Self-insured so they were like,
Speaker 4:They're so big. Okay. Yeah. So
Speaker 5:They could continue working. Um, however, um, however they could, and really it's, I've been really impressed with how the film and television industry has, has really made it work because they knew that they had to work with some people without masks, because after time to work without masks, they knew they had to get it. Right. They couldn't just say, okay, everybody PP E and you know, cover, cover yourselves up. That's true for the crew, but what about the actors and how do you make it safe for the actors? So when you have to solve that problem, when everything has to solve for that problem, you, you end up solving a whole bunch of other problems. Right. So, um, how do you test, do you rapid test do, I mean, what the whole thing? So every show has its own little testing room and, uh, uh, uh, testing service. And they have a certain number of tests per week per department, more for people who are in that all access pass zone, right? The people that were closest to the actors as an actor, you might come in and test, uh, 48 hours before you even come in for a fitting. Um, and even in a fitting you're wearing a, um, then you have to test the night before and you do a rapid test the morning of, um, before you even go to hair and makeup. So they have ways of, you know, in thermal checks also before you even go into your test. So, uh, they, they test a ton. The biggest cost to production with all of this really has been all the testing. Um, and the rapid testing is, is bringing that cost way down so that they can continue to produce. But yeah, there's going to come a time if, if there are more shutdowns where it will slow down during the beginning of COVID, there was a huge, um, uptick in development, um, which is basically people writing, pitching, getting their projects bought, and then, you know, developed, uh, through pre-production getting ready to shoot and development includes writing. Uh, it includes casting, all those things you can do before you actually go into production itself. And so there was, there was a very active development season because it was March and people normally would be doing pilots. And that whole, uh, that whole breakneck TV, um, time of year slowed so far down, that people had time on their hands. And they were able to really think about, um, some of those projects that were at the bottom of the pile that nobody had even read that were terrific. So it was actually many people talked about feeling very, like, it was a very fertile time with lots of good ideas and interesting material coming to the fore. Um, and so that, that was, that was good. And then things went into production, some got shut down and came back. I think things are cranking back up and it's, um, it has been very, um, very successful as, as an industry at working through the pandemic.
Speaker 4:So like every other sector there's going to be disruption. And for me, disruption is a, it's not disrupting like the production of something. It's a good thing. Disrupting means it causes you to rethink how you were doing something. Um, my, I am a huge movie fan. I love going to the movie theater, but it seems as if my movie theaters might be in peril and, you know, with what are two recent examples were like wonder woman and the new Denzel Washington movie whereby the agreements for how long it's in the movie theater and before it gets onto, you know, pay per view and then HBO or whatever. Um, do you think we're going back to movie theaters the way they were or what's?
Speaker 5:No, it's interesting. It's a good question. You ask. And I think prior to COVID, um, box office had dwindled quite a bit, except for those tentpole productions, those, those Marvel movies, you know, that you just always want to see the theater, 3d movies or whatever, um, or date night horror movies. That's, that's the strangest thing to me anyway, but like, whatever. Um, but I think that, um, Y you've never wanted to do scream or something. I, I, listen, I would, I would do it. I would not watch it. I get, I get so absurdly scared at horror movies that I, they ha they literally haunt me. I'm too sensitive. Um, but, but my point is that, um, I think prior to COVID, there was already, um, a real problem at the box office. And many, many times films would be released in the theater that weren't those big, huge blockbusters, right. Just to qualify for Academy, consideration or awards consideration just would have to just the minimum number of weeks. Now, there's an, there's an exception for this year. I don't think that will go away. I know that those films will, will come back to upstate films and they will come back to our art house cinemas. And those films will be in theaters. But I think regardless, but I think we're going to actually want to go back to the theater. I think we're going to be so hungry for that experience that I imagine that it will actually bounce back more than anticipated. That's my guess. But in terms of like your, your, your original question, they will have to be in theaters to qualify. I think there is a, a natural and healthy relationship between the exhibitors and, you know, uh, the Academy and those, those entities. So, because it's, it's, uh, it's, um, it's a whole sector, uh, both theatrical release of films and also theaters like Broadway and, um, and, and dance and everything else. Uh, I, I'm very concerned about their health and wellness going forward and the need for real economic help.
Speaker 4:So, um, let's pretend that we're eventually have COVID in the pandemic in our rear view, mirror and life is back to, you know, just like your flu shot. You just get your shot once a year, but you're not wearing a mask every day. Are there changes to the film industry that either you wanted to see that have now have an opportunity to happen, or they're just changes that have happened that, um, maybe weren't your idea, per se, but, um, there, the way in which movies are made or television shows are made, is it going to change?
Speaker 5:You know, it's funny because when it first happened, I thought maybe this is finally the time that people will look at the, um, insane way that we go about production, um, and, and change it slightly. And by that, I mean, um, the average Workday, the average work week on a show shooting in the city for example, is like, you know, 75, 80 hours, that's, you know, full-time equivalent, that's two plus. So, um, that, that is that's crazy. And also not that productive. So if you're making art, it's not like, you know, art by the pound, right? It's, it's it, you need to be rested and have ultimate, proper cognitive function and have all the cylinders burning. And you also can achieve quite a bit more in less shooting time. If you have more time to sleep at night and prepare for your next day, both from the acting standpoint, the directing standpoint, the crew, everything. And so, um, there is something called French hours that I'm, I'm a real fan of, which is sort of a straight eight hour day. And instead of, you know, the actors get there at five in the morning, the crew gets there at seven and you shoot till seven, and then the Teamsters go home at nine. And you know, this ridiculous day. So usually a 20 hour day instead, it means like within 10 hours you arrive at work. And the last person is off the set by within 10 hours. And the actors are well rested. You have one meal at the end of the day, not in the middle of the day that people in France, the reason they call it French hours, they would start work for eight hours and have a big meal with the crew, with wine and food. And everybody would have this tremendous, a spree decor and go home. And it would be a very, um, rich experience. Um, that is so not American. So not like Mo you know, most productive, but it actually is you can actually get the same amount of work done. And so I thought, Oh, this is going to happen. And people were talking about it as a way to optimize people's immune function. And, um, and that, that, you know, you wouldn't have people touching food all day long on the craft service table, or sit at lunch in the middle of the day. You need a huge meal and then get all tired, um, expose themselves to each other, um, in terms of like eating too close together and stuff like that. So there was talk of it at first, what it was, what their work around was instead of French hours, uh, they eliminated lunch so that you would have to give your, uh, you would have a menu and that you would receive in the morning and you'd, you would have to hand it in by a certain time and your lunch sort of almost delivered to you wherever you are. And so it's more like take out. And, um, and that's, that's interesting. Um, you know, I think it would be better to work, uh, shorter hours, uh, and less, less weight based, more focused time. Uh, I would require that people are more prepared. There are some things that are happening on the set already as a result of having to work in this weird way. I mentioned earlier, which is, um, you might have the camera crew, uh, and th the DP, the cinematographer worked with the director and really, really carefully designed exactly what's going to be in the frame almost like you would in the olden days, you know, before, before, uh, digital media and you cause you'd have film and is expensive. So you would only shoot exactly what you need, and you would only build the set for exactly what you were going to see. And it was all very, very, very designed back in the MGM days. You know, everything was very designed. Um, we could use a little bit more of that and not saying I'm against a verite or working with in a way that's, that's a little loose and, and improvisational, but having better preparation, especially on television shows is good for everyone involved. It, it just makes for better work, um, more decisive work. And, um, you know, as an actor, I think, you know, they, they're supposed to be locking the scripts much earlier before COVID, you might get a rewrite while you're in the makeup chair. And it's like this law, a huge speech. And you're like, Oh my God, how am I going to do this? Um, so that's good because they have to make sure it's prepared. Uh, all departments have signed off on it from COVID safety, uh, uh, through that lens, you know, to think of it, is it safe? Is it well planned out? And, and so it does require the people are more prepared and in a way that's, that's very pleasant. Um, there are also fewer people on the set and, um, while you're shooting, which is nice, it's less distracted. Um, you know, in terms of your other question of whether you could work with smaller crews and those kinds of innovations, some of those things are actually true and are already in use on independent films and non-union films. Um, but in, in fact there might be, um, you need a deeper bench if people are going to get sick and that sort of thing. So you actually need to cover yourself in different ways now with COVID than you used to,
Speaker 4:Um, help me understand a couple of economic questions. So first, um, I think you said, you know, doing a TV show or series, and I've been told, um, so I have no authority on this that the, you know, if you can get a television show, that's the home run to be produced because it's there, you're a couple of hopefully, you know, kits renewed. But no, I think, I think the walking dead is an example in Atlanta if I have it right, Georgia. Okay. So that, you know, it was like a long run and it produced, why are they so important to land one of those it's obviously much longer in duration than a movie, but what makes it some of the, what makes it different than a movie?
Speaker 5:Well, um, mostly it is duration. It's also, um, when it's a TV series, you know, people tend to make their home where they're filming. And as you know, um, you know, when you live somewhere, you're, you're paying taxes and your, um, your kids might go to school there, your whole family is there, you know, it's, it's, it's more than a person jobbing in and sleeping on someone's couch for a couple of months and then going back where they're from. Um, so there's something that, that just does. Um, you know, there, there's definitely, um, studies out on the multiplier effect of, um, production, uh, long-term production, like a TV series. Um, I, I think mostly it's duration TV is the order of 13 or in, in a network show over 20 episodes of television is, is like, um, you know, 10 movies. Okay. You know, that's like doing 10 movies a year, so it's such a different order of magnitude, um, that it, it, uh, it's just hard to even, um, believe. Um, also, um, you know, if you're in a place longer on a TV series, you, you do have to have more sets built because of weather. And because it just, for, for ease of filming, if you're going to be at the person's house 10 times in a, in, in an episode, you might as well build the set and control the light and control the weather and come in and out of it as you please, um, and own it, right? The person's house that you shoot when you, they come out on the lawn and up the paper in the morning and that scene, yeah, you shoot that on location, but the whole interior of the house is going to be on a soundstage. Um, the show I was doing last year called for life that is, uh, in New York city, it's a prison show. There's 17 sets. They shoot on location this much, you know, like a, a day. And then the rest of the eight to nine days of an episode are all on the soundstage.
Speaker 4:Have you thought, is there a dream of, uh, in your, you know, in your imagination of a TV series that you could do it up river or somewhere in the Hudson Valley? I mean, I know have you thought about what it would be?
Speaker 5:I have a lot of ideas, you know, I still have to like everyone else try to sell my, sell my work. Um, and you know, I have a few, a few projects that are out there going we're pitching and, and try and get set up. Um, and, but I run tickly. I'm pretty sure. Um, I will be the last person to work at upriver because, you know, we'll, we'll have a show in there and, um, I doubt, um, I'll get the call to be in it. So I'll just, I'll just be grateful that, that there is a show in town and, um, yeah, and, and then I've written a feature, um, that needs a soundstage. So maybe, maybe the, let us shoot there between, uh, between seasons of someone else's show. Um, but yeah, it it's, it would be, it would be great if I could do that. That would be really fun.
Speaker 4:Um, all right. Well, let me, when I last saw you, it was just before COVID and you made this passing remark to me in which you said it would be great if we could get a, a little snip of people who have filmed in other places outside of the Hudson Valley. And they could just say, I wish I could be filming in the Hudson Valley. I think, I think I got that. Right. And so is that a project? Is that a project we could do as a fitting way to come out of COVID then, you know, as a marketing piece to try to, and what would it look like? And, you know, cause I, I, it may have just been an off the cuff remark, but
Speaker 5:Oh, it's definitely something that's in the works. Um, this idea that, um, you know, people in, in various locations filming who actually live in the Hudson Valley would say that, you know, they'd rather be shooting that they'd rather be filming in the Hudson Valley. Um, but we actually have other other plans with the, with hashtags and this and that, that we're planning to sort of launch, uh, soon. And, um, I'm not at Liberty to share because it's, everything's a group think, um, situation. But, um, but I, I, I guess I think you're absolutely right. Um, definitely need to promote it as a region. Um, but I, I, I think it's doing pretty well. Like the Hudson Valley is like the hottest real estate market in the country. Um, coming up here, there's a lot of crew who actually relocated up here because they weren't working in the city.
Speaker 4:Oh, you mean specifically within the film industry, this, this, um, group.
Speaker 5:Yeah. And, and so people reach out and say, Oh my gosh, I heard you're doing this thing. Do you think there's any way I'm like, yeah, there is going to be a way. So, um, soon we're, we're negotiating right now with a big show and we're hoping that, uh, at, at upriver and we're hoping that it goes forward. And if it does, that would be, you know, uh, they would be moving in, in, in March and, uh, shooting in the spring and summer and through the winter. And so that would be, that'd be fantastic if that happens.
Speaker 4:All right. Mary Stuart Masterson, thank you so much for, for finding your way to the, you know, the Hudson Valley for stockade works for your vision for up river. Um, and let's hope that you can realize all these dreams as soon as possible. So thanks.
Speaker 5:Thank you so much. What a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for tuning in to patterns,
Speaker 4:Paradigms the pattern podcast. For more information about this episode, visit our website pattern for progress.org forward slash podcast.[inaudible].